1
00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,440
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for

2
00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:11,479
Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

3
00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:16,560
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

4
00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,119
Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number to

5
00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,880
Speaker 1: the show. We're joined by Matt making expert Ben Harshine

6
00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,040
Speaker 1: to discuss how maps can make you a better deer hunter.

7
00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,800
Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, brought

8
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,920
Speaker 1: to you by Sick of Gear, and today we're talking

9
00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,440
Speaker 1: about one of the very most important tools a hunter

10
00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:56,960
Speaker 1: will ever use, a skill set that will without a

11
00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,640
Speaker 1: doubt make you a better deer hunter. And we're talking

12
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:04,039
Speaker 1: about maps and aera photos and topography, lines and cover

13
00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,959
Speaker 1: and terrain and funnels and so so much more. I

14
00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:09,720
Speaker 1: just think this is going to be an awesome episodes.

15
00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,840
Speaker 1: We're going to be discussing the many different things you

16
00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,000
Speaker 1: can see and learn about on maps, and how those

17
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,479
Speaker 1: various features actually look on the ground, and then finally,

18
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,240
Speaker 1: how deer use them. So you know, you've probably heard

19
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,559
Speaker 1: me and Dan talk about how often we stare at maps,

20
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,479
Speaker 1: and that's for a good reason. It's not just because

21
00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,679
Speaker 1: we're lazy and don't want to do real work. It's

22
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,319
Speaker 1: because you can learn so much from maps and because

23
00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,040
Speaker 1: they can help you implement a really sound deer hunting strategy.

24
00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,679
Speaker 1: So that's the plan for today. We're going to cover

25
00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,320
Speaker 1: all of these topics I just mentioned and much more

26
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,679
Speaker 1: and as much detail as we possibly can. And joining

27
00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,959
Speaker 1: us is Ben Harshein, a map making guru with a

28
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,480
Speaker 1: serious pedigree in cartography at a hardcore white tail attitude,

29
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,920
Speaker 1: recently moved to the great state of Iowa. So that's

30
00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 1: the good news. The bad news, though, is that my

31
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,640
Speaker 1: trustee co host Dan Johnson could not join us today unfortunately,

32
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,040
Speaker 1: so he's not going to be able to share with

33
00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,320
Speaker 1: you his latest shed hunting exploits as we planned. But

34
00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,200
Speaker 1: I can tell you that both I and Dan put

35
00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,200
Speaker 1: the shed hunting advice that we covered in the last

36
00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,400
Speaker 1: episode to good use, as we actually both found a

37
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,080
Speaker 1: good hall of sheds this past weekend, and I actually

38
00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,160
Speaker 1: found my two largest Michigan sheds yet, so that was

39
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,960
Speaker 1: pretty awesome. So nonetheless, next week Dan should be back,

40
00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,119
Speaker 1: and I'm guessing we're both going to have some good

41
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 1: stories because I'm heading to Iowa this weekend and I'm

42
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,000
Speaker 1: gonna have three full days of shed hunting and hopefully

43
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,320
Speaker 1: he's going to be able to escape some of his

44
00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,800
Speaker 1: adult responsibilities to join me for a little bit of that.

45
00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,080
Speaker 1: And uh, if things go well, we'll hopefully have some

46
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,880
Speaker 1: good shed hunting stories to share. So so stay tuned

47
00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,639
Speaker 1: for all that. But with all that said, since there's

48
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,200
Speaker 1: no co host for me to bs with today, we're

49
00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,280
Speaker 1: going to get right into our interview with Ben. But

50
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,600
Speaker 1: briefly before that, we're going to take a quick second

51
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,680
Speaker 1: to think our sponsors of this podcast, Sick tod Gear,

52
00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,120
Speaker 1: and this week, as you might have guessed, we've got

53
00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,880
Speaker 1: Sick of Product category leader Dennis is up with us

54
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,280
Speaker 1: and I wanted to ask Dennis about a program that

55
00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,639
Speaker 1: launched last year for which SICK could create a group

56
00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,119
Speaker 1: called the Sick of white Tail Ambassador Team, which I'm

57
00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,919
Speaker 1: actually part of as well as our guest today, Ben

58
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,600
Speaker 1: Harsha On. So, Dennis, what's the deal with this Sick

59
00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,680
Speaker 1: of white Tail Ambassador Team? Yeah, and and it's something

60
00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,880
Speaker 1: we're really excited about, you know, because we think about

61
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,840
Speaker 1: who we're building for and the guys out there that

62
00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,760
Speaker 1: we're trying to create great products for, you know, a

63
00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,760
Speaker 1: lot of them they are those ambassador types of guys.

64
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,400
Speaker 1: You know, these are people who who are driven, They

65
00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,919
Speaker 1: hunt hard. You know, they care about a lot about

66
00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,320
Speaker 1: their gear, their bow, everything they own. Um. They really

67
00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,840
Speaker 1: analyze all the details. Um. And you know, for us,

68
00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:41,680
Speaker 1: we want to make sure we're taking we're working with

69
00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:43,640
Speaker 1: those guys to create great gear and coming up with

70
00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,480
Speaker 1: his next great ideas and and we're helping them understand

71
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,160
Speaker 1: you know, well why the sick and make products the

72
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,800
Speaker 1: way they do and and and they become that voice.

73
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,160
Speaker 1: You know, these guys are are guys who who are

74
00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:55,840
Speaker 1: going to be able to relay that message, you know,

75
00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,200
Speaker 1: to their buddies, to the other guys that they live

76
00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,200
Speaker 1: around their home with and help them understand you know,

77
00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,040
Speaker 1: how does how does some of the things we talked

78
00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:08,000
Speaker 1: about these cops podcasts, you know, so why wicking layers,

79
00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,040
Speaker 1: why installation? You know, these are these guys are going

80
00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 1: to carry that message for us, and we're super excited

81
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,720
Speaker 1: to have them, and they're going to carry an authentic

82
00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,080
Speaker 1: message back to us around you know what's missing? What else?

83
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,800
Speaker 1: So for someone who feels like they fit that profile,

84
00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,120
Speaker 1: is there any way for people to proactively possibly become

85
00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,240
Speaker 1: a part of that process or that that type of group. Yeah,

86
00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,880
Speaker 1: I mean so absolutely. You know, we're sick of web

87
00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:34,919
Speaker 1: page and a lot of our social media and formats,

88
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,000
Speaker 1: you know, believe it or not, we pay a lot

89
00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,320
Speaker 1: of attention and we're watching the people who are posting

90
00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,679
Speaker 1: and who are active, who are asking questions, very interested. Um.

91
00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:44,839
Speaker 1: We you know, we seek those folks out. You know,

92
00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:46,760
Speaker 1: people don't know that we reach out to those folks,

93
00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,800
Speaker 1: but we do. And the ambassadors are are groups of

94
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,800
Speaker 1: people who will come from that. So if that's something

95
00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,279
Speaker 1: you're interested in, be active, be involved, Um, give your input.

96
00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,800
Speaker 1: Um we do notice. We pay attention. So there you

97
00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,240
Speaker 1: have that. And in addition what Dennis said, if you're

98
00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,440
Speaker 1: interested in seeing what some of the current Sick of

99
00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,280
Speaker 1: White Tail Ambassadors are up to, you can check out

100
00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:12,200
Speaker 1: on Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook the hashtag sitkuss SWAT. That's

101
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,760
Speaker 1: Sita s I T k A SWAT s w A

102
00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,679
Speaker 1: T That stands for Sick of White Tail Ambassador Teams.

103
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,240
Speaker 1: So check out hashtag sikas swat for some of the

104
00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,159
Speaker 1: photos and videos that all these guys and gals are posting.

105
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,920
Speaker 1: There's some great stuff out there, and if you'd just

106
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,400
Speaker 1: like to learn more about sick of Gear. You can

107
00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,800
Speaker 1: visit sick of gear dot com. So with all that

108
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,560
Speaker 1: out of the way, it is now time to get

109
00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:39,360
Speaker 1: Mr Ben Harshine on the line. All right with us

110
00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,960
Speaker 1: Now on the show is Ben harsh On. Welcome the show, Ben.

111
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me Mark. Yeah, I'm excited to to

112
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,520
Speaker 1: get to chat with you. We've been able to uh

113
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,479
Speaker 1: talk on the phone and handful of times over the

114
00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,240
Speaker 1: past year or two, and I always get these little

115
00:05:54,240 --> 00:06:01,160
Speaker 1: snippets of your map. I don't know your map just genius.

116
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,000
Speaker 1: I hear some things that your your background always intrigues me.

117
00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,160
Speaker 1: And I've wanted to like just like totally pick your

118
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,920
Speaker 1: brain and geek out on maps, because you know, if

119
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,680
Speaker 1: Dan was here, I know he'd be feeling the same way.

120
00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,640
Speaker 1: Me and him are just map nuts. We are obsessed

121
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,360
Speaker 1: with them. We're always looking at them, we're always thinking

122
00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,920
Speaker 1: about them, We're dreaming about them and going through all

123
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,120
Speaker 1: the various little planning or scouting elements that are tied

124
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,719
Speaker 1: into maps. So it's something we love and it's nice

125
00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,360
Speaker 1: to be on the line with someone who I who

126
00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,719
Speaker 1: I think shares that same love. So so thank you, Ben.

127
00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,000
Speaker 1: This is gonna be a lot of fun. Um, Yeah,

128
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,080
Speaker 1: looking forward to it. And that all said. I. You know,

129
00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:39,760
Speaker 1: just before we got on the phone with you, I

130
00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,080
Speaker 1: did a brief introduction UM for our audience, and I

131
00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,920
Speaker 1: basically explained to basic things that you're a map guru

132
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,920
Speaker 1: and that you're a white tail nuts. So with that

133
00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,320
Speaker 1: little bit already out of the way, could you just

134
00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,839
Speaker 1: elaborate a little bit force on you know, where your

135
00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,159
Speaker 1: map background came from, what's your education, what do you

136
00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,719
Speaker 1: do now? And how is all that murder in with

137
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:05,760
Speaker 1: your love of deer hunting? Yeah? Short things So UM.

138
00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,920
Speaker 1: First off, born and raised in western Pennsylvania, and I

139
00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,520
Speaker 1: went to school at at Penn State UM for actually

140
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,560
Speaker 1: have a degree in geography. But but my my emphasis

141
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:21,360
Speaker 1: and all of my studies UM work towards UM geographic

142
00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,880
Speaker 1: information systems a lot of people know as g I s.

143
00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,920
Speaker 1: But really what I focused on was it was cartography.

144
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:33,360
Speaker 1: So the actual UM, the study of the production and

145
00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,120
Speaker 1: the design of maps is really what what uh what?

146
00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,080
Speaker 1: After student college and it took me down to Washington,

147
00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,920
Speaker 1: D C. Area, where I worked as a as a

148
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:48,120
Speaker 1: contractor making maps for the military and the National kind

149
00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,800
Speaker 1: of Terrorism Center. Uh, you know, pretty unique experience and

150
00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,680
Speaker 1: in doing that, and and I spent seven years there

151
00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 1: um making maps for finished intelligence products that were essentially

152
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,480
Speaker 1: two decision makers on events that were happening around the world.

153
00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,640
Speaker 1: So it is a phenomenal experience for sure. And UM

154
00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:16,239
Speaker 1: around twenty blew this ten actually made a map of

155
00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:22,600
Speaker 1: so being in western Pennsylvania. UM. I was basically raised

156
00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,960
Speaker 1: on hunting ground that was all for us. So if

157
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,320
Speaker 1: you look at the if you look at the image

158
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,040
Speaker 1: from you know, an online map source, and it would

159
00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,800
Speaker 1: just basically look like nothing but a stea green. So

160
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,319
Speaker 1: I made a map UM for my dad for Father's

161
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:46,080
Speaker 1: Day basically depicted the terrain inside of of on that property.

162
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,440
Speaker 1: So you know, standard imagery is just going to show

163
00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,920
Speaker 1: you nothing but green and you really can't differentiate what's

164
00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,120
Speaker 1: going on on the property. I figured out a way

165
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,720
Speaker 1: to actually visualize the terrain there and that was kind

166
00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,280
Speaker 1: of a game changer for us. Is at the time

167
00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,920
Speaker 1: a pretty cool gift for him, and we used it

168
00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,480
Speaker 1: to you know, further to enhance our scouting efforts and

169
00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:09,160
Speaker 1: hunting success. And uh, you know, terrain plays a big

170
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,640
Speaker 1: picture in what you look for as a deer hunter,

171
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,360
Speaker 1: which I'm sure we'll get into But anyways, I made

172
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,480
Speaker 1: that map, and uh he showed to his buddies, and

173
00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,880
Speaker 1: you know, they're pretty excited about They ordered maps from me,

174
00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,160
Speaker 1: and words just kind of organically spread, and I decided

175
00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,960
Speaker 1: to create a business called Hunt Terror Mapping, and UM,

176
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,040
Speaker 1: it was awesome. I continued to work as a contractor

177
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,160
Speaker 1: and uh, in my spare time, made these maps, make

178
00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,560
Speaker 1: some pocket chains for hunting season, you know, and and

179
00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,600
Speaker 1: it just continued to build and grow and I really

180
00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,240
Speaker 1: focused on, um bringing something different to the table from

181
00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,280
Speaker 1: map production, specifically four Hunters, because it was my passion

182
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,240
Speaker 1: and um, that's will I enjoyed doing in my free time.

183
00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:59,040
Speaker 1: So UM fast forward to be like the fall of

184
00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,960
Speaker 1: of of routine and my life, and I realized that,

185
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:04,959
Speaker 1: you know, it was kind of decision time as far

186
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,680
Speaker 1: as what we're going to do with it. It was

187
00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,439
Speaker 1: consuming all of our time, all of our all of

188
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,400
Speaker 1: our spare time. And decided to you know what, let's

189
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,120
Speaker 1: let's go after this thing. And we packed up and

190
00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:19,199
Speaker 1: uprooted everything from northern Virginia, moved to the Midwest to

191
00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,000
Speaker 1: give un Terra everything we had in uh to really

192
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,160
Speaker 1: get into the thick of um where we do a

193
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,480
Speaker 1: lot of marketing. We've got a lot of partners out

194
00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 1: here and clients. Um we make maps for all over

195
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,480
Speaker 1: the country. But aside from that, you know, I'm a

196
00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:40,400
Speaker 1: white tail hunting fanatic and there's really arguably no better

197
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,559
Speaker 1: place to be than than an Iowa. So we landed

198
00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,840
Speaker 1: in uh in eastern Iowa and set up shop and

199
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,880
Speaker 1: that's where we are today. That's awesome then, and I

200
00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,480
Speaker 1: just really love your story because I feel like I

201
00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,960
Speaker 1: can relate to it a lot, being uh, you know,

202
00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,880
Speaker 1: a one man show myself at least starting. You know,

203
00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:58,440
Speaker 1: I know that you started from the ground up with

204
00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,400
Speaker 1: you and your wife, and I've kind of followed in

205
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,800
Speaker 1: a similar path, and I know it's a challenge and

206
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:04,920
Speaker 1: it's pretty cool though to be able to merge that

207
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,640
Speaker 1: that background and skills that you have with map making

208
00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:09,880
Speaker 1: and all that goes into that with your love for

209
00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,800
Speaker 1: white tails. Um So, so I love that story. But

210
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,120
Speaker 1: here's the here's the real question. Ben. You made the

211
00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,360
Speaker 1: move to Iowa that you know I sit and dream

212
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,600
Speaker 1: about every day. Um So, you're I think your first

213
00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,600
Speaker 1: full hunting season in Iowa was this past fall. Was

214
00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,040
Speaker 1: that everything you dreamed it? Would be Yeah, you know,

215
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,760
Speaker 1: it was pretty phenomenal. Um, I got access to the

216
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:37,480
Speaker 1: first I've never um got enough points to come hunt

217
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,839
Speaker 1: Iowa before. We've actually moved here, and I've hunted the Midwest,

218
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,200
Speaker 1: um behind the Midwest a good bit here over the

219
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,280
Speaker 1: past decade, UM, but never in the state. So when

220
00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,079
Speaker 1: we landed here and I got to the point where

221
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:51,760
Speaker 1: I was a resident long enough for I could buy

222
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,720
Speaker 1: it a tag and UM, yeah, I got access to

223
00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,280
Speaker 1: a nice property for archery season this past year. And

224
00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:05,840
Speaker 1: it was funny. It's essentially a combination of the cattle

225
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,280
Speaker 1: farm and DRP ground and there's a lot of there's

226
00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,000
Speaker 1: a lot of fence on the property. But um, regardless,

227
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:14,920
Speaker 1: I had a couple of small food pots that I

228
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,760
Speaker 1: put in and um, right off the bat, we had

229
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:23,520
Speaker 1: a good wind uh October two to hunt a stand

230
00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,320
Speaker 1: in the middle of the property and right off the

231
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,880
Speaker 1: food plot. And my parents were in town, were actually

232
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:31,559
Speaker 1: doing some work on the basements of the house that

233
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,600
Speaker 1: we bought. And you know, I said to my dad, man,

234
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,640
Speaker 1: this would be awesome timing to go sit Iowa for

235
00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:39,800
Speaker 1: my first time with you, you know, with the man

236
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,960
Speaker 1: who who you know, fueled the introduced me to to

237
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,880
Speaker 1: hunting and fueled the passion that I have today. So um,

238
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,320
Speaker 1: it was like perfect timing went down there, and uh,

239
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,840
Speaker 1: I didn't expect to see, you know, a big deer

240
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,400
Speaker 1: necessarily right off the bat. The cameras were pretty not

241
00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,520
Speaker 1: not showing too much, um, but sure enough ended up

242
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,800
Speaker 1: encountering a a really good deer like I'm I'm guessing,

243
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,439
Speaker 1: uh five and a half years old or older. Um,

244
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,080
Speaker 1: that first evening and he was just annihilating a tree

245
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,360
Speaker 1: and he came out to the food plot. You know. Uh,

246
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,720
Speaker 1: I was thinking, I really want to you know, get

247
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,880
Speaker 1: a good sit in here in Iowa. This this first,

248
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,000
Speaker 1: this first, you know, the first year and and and

249
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:24,760
Speaker 1: get a whole season in there. But if he comes, fine,

250
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,439
Speaker 1: we're not to shoot him. And he didn't come by.

251
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,199
Speaker 1: But I ended up encountering that year eight different times, um,

252
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,120
Speaker 1: from October two to December four, and I never could

253
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,880
Speaker 1: catch up to them. So um No, it was awesome though.

254
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,840
Speaker 1: And it was a lot of high quality, you know,

255
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,320
Speaker 1: high value sits here, So there's a lot of fun,

256
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,640
Speaker 1: special place to be. That's awesome. That's that's pretty cool

257
00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,760
Speaker 1: to have one of those first hunts. To have such

258
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,679
Speaker 1: an experience like that, I that doesn't happen very often,

259
00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:53,719
Speaker 1: but it happened to me once my first time ever

260
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,120
Speaker 1: hunting my southern Ahil property that I hunted now a lot.

261
00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:58,920
Speaker 1: In the very first time I ever hunted it, I

262
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,040
Speaker 1: saw the huge four year old buck four or five

263
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,840
Speaker 1: year old buck that I came to call jawbreaker, And

264
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,800
Speaker 1: I've talked about a lot on the podcast and stuff.

265
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,079
Speaker 1: So that was kind of cool. So I hope that you,

266
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,400
Speaker 1: I hope you can continue that story and that hunt

267
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,200
Speaker 1: next year. Do you know if he made it to

268
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,600
Speaker 1: the new year. Yeah, pretty sure he did make it.

269
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:22,240
Speaker 1: And looking forward to to um, you know, hopefully pursuing

270
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,560
Speaker 1: him again. And in my eyes, you know, at this

271
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,160
Speaker 1: point in my career of hunting, UM, I think I

272
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,240
Speaker 1: spoke to you to you about this before, but it's

273
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,480
Speaker 1: really um. For me, the ultimate trophy is is creating

274
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,080
Speaker 1: history with one specific animal and building that you know,

275
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,480
Speaker 1: that quest to um try to figure him out, and

276
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,520
Speaker 1: that that chess match between you two is really um,

277
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,680
Speaker 1: that's the ultimate trophy. And then eventually catching up to

278
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,800
Speaker 1: him would be icing on the cake. So UM, yeah,

279
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,120
Speaker 1: I've got a good opportunity to do that. I think

280
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:57,040
Speaker 1: he did survive, so we'll see what happens. That's exciting.

281
00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,120
Speaker 1: I uhcent agree with you. That is my favorite thing

282
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,600
Speaker 1: about you know, as I've kind of moved in my

283
00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,160
Speaker 1: journey as a deer hunter, that my absolute favorite thing

284
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,080
Speaker 1: now has been this opportunity to get to know a

285
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,840
Speaker 1: deer over multiple years and have all those all those

286
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,760
Speaker 1: ups and downs and encounters and challenges and and maybe

287
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,640
Speaker 1: once it all comes together. So man, that's cool. Is he? Um?

288
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,200
Speaker 1: You said he was a five year old? How like?

289
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,320
Speaker 1: What kind of is he? Like? Really? Whall? What's what's

290
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:29,240
Speaker 1: his rack story? Yeah? So? Um the reason it kind

291
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,040
Speaker 1: of gets you know, and there's a lot of athens

292
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,560
Speaker 1: about aging, beer on the hoofs and whatnot. Um, but

293
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,800
Speaker 1: you know, he just had this giant, giant body, deep

294
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:45,280
Speaker 1: sagging belly, kind of a swooping low low back, almost

295
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,720
Speaker 1: like a saddle to what we're going to talk about. Um,

296
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,160
Speaker 1: just had this look of a deer that was fully mature. Um.

297
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:52,920
Speaker 1: So not not you know, That's why I was guessed

298
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:54,400
Speaker 1: five and a half. But as far as his rack,

299
00:15:55,080 --> 00:16:00,520
Speaker 1: probably a low sixties deer, just a really high, um decent, heavy,

300
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,400
Speaker 1: perfectly clean ten, so um, yeah, he need's awesome. He

301
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,600
Speaker 1: actually named him Cork. My dad's nickname is Pork, and

302
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:10,760
Speaker 1: all my buddies, no, my dad is Pork. And it's

303
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,600
Speaker 1: funny because I was with my dad when I saw

304
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,320
Speaker 1: this deer and he came out and I was like,

305
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,480
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, he is this huge body, and so

306
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,200
Speaker 1: he got does the nickname pork and and uh, it's

307
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,440
Speaker 1: it's funny. I'm you know, actually looking at the map

308
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,720
Speaker 1: right now from my farthest you know, if you should

309
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,880
Speaker 1: take my four stands farthest from each other, kind of

310
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,360
Speaker 1: the outer edges of what where I chased this deer,

311
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,920
Speaker 1: You're only looking at probably m m a hundred acres

312
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,440
Speaker 1: of really good cover and in a couple of variety

313
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,120
Speaker 1: of food sources. So um, the farm is is larger

314
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,360
Speaker 1: than that. But I really, between encounters and camera sightings,

315
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,360
Speaker 1: dialed into him where saw m blanch She just was

316
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,840
Speaker 1: always one step ahead of you. So it's interesting to

317
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,280
Speaker 1: kind of it's you know, it's cliche that sounds look

318
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,720
Speaker 1: at the map and really see where, you know want

319
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,440
Speaker 1: the story was telling you. Ye, So do you fall

320
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,040
Speaker 1: prey to the same thing that me and Dan do?

321
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,879
Speaker 1: Do you ever find yourself not working because you're staring

322
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,040
Speaker 1: at a map and thinking about that stuff? Yeah, so

323
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,800
Speaker 1: for sure, in my office here, I've got a big

324
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:23,120
Speaker 1: map of that property and and actually so I'm looking

325
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,439
Speaker 1: at that. You know, all year I was looking at

326
00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,040
Speaker 1: that thing trying to figure out how I'm gonna um

327
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:33,240
Speaker 1: intercept pork. But I've also gotten maps of um properties

328
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,800
Speaker 1: that I probably won't ever hunt again. I've had some

329
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,359
Speaker 1: really memorable hunts on and and you know, these maps

330
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,200
Speaker 1: here are just as a hunter, they're they're a tool,

331
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,840
Speaker 1: but they're also like the perfect way to look at

332
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,959
Speaker 1: you know, and and bring up and drum up memories. Again,

333
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,240
Speaker 1: so um un fanatical about maps and fanatical about hunting.

334
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,000
Speaker 1: But you know the fact is these maps can be

335
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 1: trophies in their own right too. So but definitely like

336
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,520
Speaker 1: the ultimate distraction, you know in a white teller's office.

337
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,119
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and I agree, And and to your to

338
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,280
Speaker 1: your point that they're kind of especially you know, really

339
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,040
Speaker 1: nice maps like yours. It's almost like art itself, you know,

340
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,360
Speaker 1: just you can stare with that, and it's memories, it's

341
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 1: a story, it's a it's a tool too. But in

342
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,919
Speaker 1: and of itself. It kind of takes you into that

343
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 1: world and can kind of transport you to the other place,

344
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,000
Speaker 1: whether it be looking at your computer in a map

345
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:27,920
Speaker 1: or a real map on the on the wall, a

346
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 1: great looking map, or whatever it is. Maps kind of

347
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,240
Speaker 1: have a way of of taking us to that other place.

348
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,720
Speaker 1: That's that's kind of special in a in a kind

349
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:40,639
Speaker 1: of floaty, weird way, I guess, but but it's pretty cool. Um, yeah,

350
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,720
Speaker 1: I kind of geek out about. So, without getting too

351
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,920
Speaker 1: far down that path, I suppose you know, given all

352
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,760
Speaker 1: of your background maps, right, you've got a very unique

353
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,439
Speaker 1: skill set compared to a lot of people we talked to,

354
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,200
Speaker 1: you know, myself and Dan and a lot of our guests, Like,

355
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,840
Speaker 1: we're serious deer hunters, so we use maps, but no

356
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,520
Speaker 1: one I've talked to has this experiences as as to

357
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,080
Speaker 1: how maps are made or what are the specifics of

358
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:05,960
Speaker 1: a map, what are the details on a map that

359
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 1: maybe I'm not noticing or thinking about. So, so kind

360
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,480
Speaker 1: of before we dive into all the different ways that

361
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,359
Speaker 1: hunters can use maps, and there's a lot of them,

362
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,159
Speaker 1: and I want to talk about, you know, what to

363
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,439
Speaker 1: look for on maps and what those things look like

364
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,399
Speaker 1: in real life, how to hunters use them, how to

365
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:20,840
Speaker 1: deer use them. There's a lot of that kind of

366
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,879
Speaker 1: stuff I want to cover. But before we get to

367
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 1: all that, I think it might be helpful just cover

368
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 1: some of the basics, you know, for those of us

369
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 1: maybe that are relatively familiar or those that maybe aren't

370
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,639
Speaker 1: familiar at all with how to use all these different

371
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,640
Speaker 1: kinds of maps. But could you maybe start us out with,

372
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 1: you know, helping us understanding some of the terminology. Are

373
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 1: there any basic terms that we need to understand related

374
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:48,360
Speaker 1: to maps before we can dive into all the other details. Yeah,

375
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,439
Speaker 1: for sure, So we'll start right at the top. UM.

376
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,399
Speaker 1: Sometimes the word cartography, you know, comes up and some

377
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 1: people like maw, what is that? So cartography, you know,

378
00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 1: I've mentioned before, is the just of designing maps. And

379
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:07,679
Speaker 1: with maps, we've always got layers of information. UM. There's

380
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: a lot of different types of maps and charts out there.

381
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,679
Speaker 1: They've got goals of UM displaying UM, you know, for

382
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 1: navigation purposes, UM displaying displaying quantitative and qualitative differences in data.

383
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 1: But it's all basically showing geography and location in the

384
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 1: story on top of that, So without telling you that

385
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 1: the history of mapping. Here. Really what what we want

386
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 1: to focus on are a couple of different layers of

387
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,920
Speaker 1: information and how they relate to the geography of where

388
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 1: you're hunting. Um, specifically the two layers. And that's really

389
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 1: where huntera And this isn't gonna be a big picture

390
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,480
Speaker 1: about my company or anything like that, but the important

391
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 1: piece of the puddle puzzle here are two factors. You've

392
00:20:53,240 --> 00:21:00,200
Speaker 1: got topography, which um sometimes that gets twisted around in

393
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,360
Speaker 1: really what it is. We've got topography, which are essentially

394
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:08,960
Speaker 1: the features that comprise elevation changes throughout the property. So

395
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 1: anywhere that you have elevation rise or fall, whether it's

396
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 1: drastic or gradual, those features like hills, ridges, saddles, valleys,

397
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 1: those features are pertaining to topography. Now, in addition to

398
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: the topography, we talk about land cover, which is the

399
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 1: other layer to the to this picture. And land cover

400
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:39,120
Speaker 1: is really uh what you see from from pick your

401
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 1: online view or whether it's Google or being or whatever. Um,

402
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 1: it's going to be the picture of the earth. And

403
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 1: the land cover is is the timber versus open ground,

404
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: versus water versus man made features. So really the picture

405
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 1: that you see is typically the land cover and there's

406
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: things that we look for there as deer hunters. Then

407
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 1: there's topography, which are your train features and your elevation changes,

408
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,640
Speaker 1: which is there's features there that we look forward as well.

409
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: So and UM, those are really the two main things

410
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,880
Speaker 1: that we look for and what we design as map makers. UM.

411
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: We're blending those two to be able to give you

412
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,679
Speaker 1: the full picture, UM, of how an animal is going

413
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 1: to move from A to B to see how you're

414
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 1: going to intercept them on the property. So, so you

415
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: mentioned two different types of maps sort or layers of maps, UM.

416
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 1: And what you've got an aerial map which you mentioned

417
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: maybe it's a Google map or whatever it might be.

418
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 1: The shows a picture like cover like a satellite view almost.

419
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 1: Then you have a topo map or a topo layer

420
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: which shows UM, which shows that elevation changes you mentioned.

421
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,159
Speaker 1: I want to kind of dive into a little more

422
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: detail on both of those and then I know that

423
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: you're able to do something a little bit different comparing

424
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 1: both of those. If you're okay with that, I'd like

425
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 1: to start on the two individuals and with an aerial

426
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: and then with a topo map into riginally can you say,

427
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: can you share tho you know, what is that best

428
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: used for? And then what do you miss with that?

429
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: And then you know, maybe you can share a little

430
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: bit with how the maps you're making maybe account for

431
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: some of those challenges. Yeah, yeah, sure. So we'll start

432
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,879
Speaker 1: with the aerial and and really that dates back to

433
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: the oh man I've actually I think there's imagery back

434
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 1: into the forties maybe regardless. Essentially, the aerial is a

435
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: picture from the sky shooting down on your onto the land,

436
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: and from there you can distinguish, um, you're where you're

437
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 1: you're fields are. So you can distinguish agricultural fields, which is,

438
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: you know, potential food sources to CRP fields, whether it

439
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: could be covered past your ground meadows that's really your

440
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: your open ground. You can you can see the timber

441
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 1: um Sometimes, depending on whenever that aerial was taken U

442
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: you can differentiate between whether um that timber is has

443
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: hardwoods in it, or if it's comprised the conifers or both.

444
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: Since conifers will hold their needles all year, you can

445
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: distinguish that in a wintertime aerial shot. UM. Sometimes you

446
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 1: can differentiate whether an area is thicker uh than other places. UM.

447
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 1: So that's regarding timber. You can see your water features

448
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 1: features of times and your streams, ponds, lakes, your swamps,

449
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: and then of course whatever men made features are are

450
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: in that area as well, you know, farmsteads and roads,

451
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: um even fence lines. So that's when an area is

452
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: going to give you and where typically unless you're in

453
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: really rugged terrain, where where What that is not going

454
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: to show you is the elevation changes. So there might

455
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: be a nice ridgeline going along cutting through the middle

456
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: of that that that timber that you can't see, or

457
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: there might be um fingers of timber that are jutting

458
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: out into agricultural ground and you can't necessarily tell that

459
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: there are ditches in the middle of that timber, which

460
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: could really kind of funnel where dey are going to

461
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: move where you want to potentially set up a stand site.

462
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: So that's where your tradeoff is going to be with

463
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: your your aerial photo, but it's going to give you

464
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: a really good idea of what what is on the

465
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: ground there. UM Now transition to your traditional topo map

466
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 1: originally made by the U S Geological Survey u s

467
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: G S. U s GS topo maps. A lot of

468
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: people are familiar for and they're essentially those maps that yeah,

469
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: have lines, contour lines that cut around the elevation. They

470
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: represent elevation at certain heights, and those lines, whenever you

471
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: look at it holistically, can tell you where your gradual

472
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: elevation changes are, where your steep elevation changes are, and

473
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: you can actually distinguish. You can look at the top

474
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: on map and literally distinguished the major and minor terrain

475
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: features um of of the land. So it's interesting line

476
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: back in school if you in the reader or the

477
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: not the readers, but the audience can can do this.

478
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 1: If you make a fist like you're gonna punt yourself

479
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: in the face, believe it or not, and you look

480
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: at that fist, okay, at the the entire line of

481
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: your knuckles, that's going to be your ridge line. So

482
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: this is basically a diagram laying out for the terrain

483
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: features that we'll be talking about. So it will sometimes

484
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: help people visualize what exactly what we're looking for. So

485
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: your your knuckles, those are your ridge lines. And then

486
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, all all of the knuckles on your hand

487
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: is your ridge line. And then the individual knuckles those

488
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: are hills. So, um, those are going to be the

489
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: highest points of ground in between your knuckles are going

490
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: to be your saddles. So the lower points in between

491
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: your hills and a longer ridge are your saddles. Um.

492
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: We talk a lot about spurs, which are sometimes considered

493
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: secondary ridges. Looking at the top of the map, there

494
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: you've got your main ridge and you've got these other

495
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: ridges that seem to be coming off of it. Those

496
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: traditionally are called spurs, and if you're looking at the fist,

497
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: those are basically your fingers coming off of the ridgeline.

498
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: And then in between those spurs are draws, which are

499
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: basically sometimes they're considered ditches as well. They're basically small

500
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: valleys that come off of your saddles, that from from

501
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: water eroding, and those are your draws. So those are

502
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,719
Speaker 1: some of the some of the terrain features that come

503
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: up in the terminology we use as deer hunters. And

504
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: I know that's a lot to type us initially, but

505
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: it's pretty interesting. You can actually see the diagram online

506
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: um where that that hand demonstrates all of these different

507
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: terrain features that are important to us. I love that.

508
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: That's a great that's a great way to visualize this stuff,

509
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of these you hear these terms,

510
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: and if you're not, if you're not already very familiar

511
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: with it, it can be kind of difficult to visualize.

512
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: So that's a really easy it's a really easy way

513
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: to do it. And uh, I've never heard someone explain

514
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: it that way. Yeah, so it's it's I know, dam

515
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: would be if you was here, you could getting a

516
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: kick out of it, make you know, act like you're

517
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: gonna punch yourself in the face, but um, yeah, it is. It's. Uh,

518
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: sometimes that terminology gets um, I don't would say misused,

519
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: but it's good to kind of call these things what

520
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: they really are so that as we're talking as deer

521
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: hunt as we can actually be consistent with you know,

522
00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: whenever we're sharing our information. But um yeah, those terrain features, um,

523
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: that all kind of come from that that that hand, Um,

524
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,239
Speaker 1: that is really what we it's going to tell us

525
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: the story of how dear are are moving just wildless

526
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,239
Speaker 1: in general moving around around the property. So yeah, and

527
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: I love that you mentioned all those because because those

528
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: are some of the things that I definitely wanted to

529
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: make sure we we go into in detail. But before

530
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: we get to that one other aspect. You mentioned a

531
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: lot of these different features that you can that you

532
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: can see on a topographic map. Um. But one of

533
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: the challenges I think someone picks up a top of

534
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: map for the first time is they look at this

535
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: and it's just all these squiggly lines and it's hard

536
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: to make sense of if you don't have sort of

537
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: an education and how to use top of maps. Is it?

538
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: Can you share us to It's a simple explanation of

539
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: how to look at a top of map. I understand

540
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: the analogy used with the fist, UM, but you know

541
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: when I look at the lines and all that, is

542
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: there any way to explain that verbally? Yeah? So UM.

543
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: The simplest one that's going to jump out to you

544
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: if you if you don't have much experience with a

545
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: standard top on that is, UM, look for areas that

546
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: have the lines close together. So a line is essentially

547
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: a consistent elevation, and then you've got your next line,

548
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: which is that that next elevation, whether it's a ten

549
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: ft difference or a fifty ft difference between lines, and

550
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: each map is going to tell you what that that

551
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: that that difference in interval is. But whenever you have

552
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: contour lines that are typed together. That represents a drastic

553
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: elevation changed in a short amount of time. So UM,

554
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: a cliff take a cliff for example. Everybody knows what

555
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: a cliff is, and that's actually considered a officially a

556
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: minor terrain feature. UM, but a cliff is going to

557
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: have many lines right on top of each other. It's

558
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: not right next to each other, symbolizing that the land

559
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: is coming across and then basically dropping straight down. Now,

560
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: on the other hand, if you try to find UM,

561
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: if you see areas where lines are farther apart from

562
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: each other, that's going to be a gradual flatter area.

563
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: So longer distances in between elevation change means more gradual slope.

564
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: So those are the two main things you can get

565
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: right off the bat off of the top of map.

566
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,959
Speaker 1: And then there's other things, fancier things you can look for.

567
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: And you know, it's it's kind of hard to describe

568
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: UM just without visualizing it, you know, with a graphic

569
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: or something. But UM saddles well of person. We'll start

570
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: with hills. Hills are gonna be basically the circles as

571
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: you see these contour lines work. Its way up the slope,

572
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: and the very very top one essentially is a circle

573
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: that represents the highest elevation point on that area. So

574
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: that's gonna be your hill. Well, if you have two

575
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: hills side by side with a lower area in between,

576
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: and I think basically that will kind of look like

577
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: an hour glass, like the skinny part of an hour glass,

578
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: that's going to be your saddle. Um. So these are

579
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: features that you can basically pick out with the topo map.

580
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: They're gonna if you start to study how these contour

581
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: lines move um and and relate to each other, it's

582
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: gonna tell you a lot about um, the ruggedness or

583
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: the lacker of on your your property. So um. Another

584
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: one that we look for our valleys. So if you

585
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: can get a grasp on Okay, here's my highest point.

586
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: Uh here, here, here's my hill, and here's where it's

587
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: sloping down, and then it basically comes to the bottom, um,

588
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: and then you can tell it starts to work its

589
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: way back up. Well, that crease in the middle is

590
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: going to be your valley. Sometimes a lot of times

591
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: it's the stream bed, so water naturally flows down because

592
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: of gravity, and a lot of times you're gonna find

593
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: your water on that property in that valley. So um,

594
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: that's something that can really um, you know, help you

595
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: get a grasp once you really start to understand, Okay,

596
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: here's an area that has a higher elevation, here's my

597
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: slopes going downhill. Boom, there's a valley. And then you

598
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: can look in there and if if the coco top

599
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: of map is really getting h able to, if it's

600
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: really able to to be um detailed enough, you'll be

601
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: able to pick out things like benches. So a bench

602
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: and this is really our bread and butter back in

603
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and with my dad and I had some of

604
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: our stand locations. A bench is essentially you've got a

605
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: pretty steep hill coming off of a ridge and you've

606
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 1: got um, basically, those lines come farther apart, so they're

607
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 1: they're pretty close together, pretty close together, then they're wider

608
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: for a little while. That represents a flat area on

609
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,439
Speaker 1: the side of the hill, and then maybe we'll start

610
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: to drop down again. So it's pretty The top of

611
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: the map can be kind of tricky to work with

612
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: it if you don't have familiarity with it. Um on

613
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, a consistent basis, but uh, that's really whenever

614
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: we added that feature on top of some of the

615
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: other relief shading and everything we do with on Terry,

616
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: it really was a game changer for for for what

617
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: what we were doing, because not only did you have

618
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: the aerial photo, you have top of map and is

619
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: telling you land cover funnels and pinch points and features,

620
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: is telling you terrain funnels and pinch points and features. Yeah. Yeah,

621
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: it makes a huge difference. And one of the things

622
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: the top on maps. I don't know if if this

623
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 1: is something other people do, but you know, when when

624
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: I first started looking at top all maps, it was

625
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: just like I felt like I was looking at a

626
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: maze or something that I just did not process it

627
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: all in my head. But then like I started doing

628
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: the things like you mentioned, I started looking for the hills.

629
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,919
Speaker 1: Okay that if that's a hill, then okay, that must

630
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: be a valley, and that must be a ridge. And

631
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: as you start to intellectually understand that, it almost feels

632
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: like did you ever did you ever look at those

633
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: books back when you're like in school, like these three

634
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: D books, like you stared an image, and if you

635
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: stared it long enough in a certain way, all of

636
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: a sudden this three D image comes out. Do you

637
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah, optical illusions or

638
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: something you know like that, Yeah, exactly. So it's almost

639
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: like that with a top of map. Now for me,

640
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: where like if I now that I once I figure okay,

641
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: these are the high points, these are the low points,

642
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: and I look at it in a certain way, I

643
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: almost becomes like three dimensional in a way, and you

644
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: can see it. But that takes a while to like

645
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 1: see it that way. Which is why I really like

646
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: what you're what you're doing with your maps, because you're

647
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: you're adding the actual relief and shape thing so that

648
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: it stands out and it actually looks like it's higher

649
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 1: or lower. And so you know, even if somebody, even

650
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 1: if somebody wasn't going to buy a new map or anything,

651
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: it would be helpful for people just to almost look

652
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: at you know. For example, I've got uh maps that

653
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: you had created Ben for me of some of my

654
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: hunting propers that I've that I've included on blog posts

655
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: and things for Wired to Hunt, where it shows this

656
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: aerial image of a farm with the topography with the terrain, elevation, um,

657
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: the shading and stuff as you mentioned, shown plus the

658
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: top of maps, so you can see the topo lines

659
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,439
Speaker 1: overlaid over the actual relief imaging, which can almost help

660
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: you align in your head. Okay, those lines like that

661
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: look like that, and so you can then if you

662
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: were to separate, then it makes a little bit more sense.

663
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: It's almost like a training mechanism if you don't have

664
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: any experience at all. Um, it's helpful to to look

665
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: at a picture to then say, okay, that's what the

666
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: picture looks like. This is what it looks like in

667
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: topo lines. Um. It's it's a great it's a great tool.

668
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: And obviously having it all layered in one map is

669
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: the is the ultimate, which is why I love using

670
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: those those maps. But there's a lot. It takes some experience.

671
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: It takes looking at these things and and kind of

672
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: just becoming getting your brain and your eye used to

673
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,240
Speaker 1: how to read it before you can then start laying

674
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: layering over how to deer use these things. So it's

675
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:24,479
Speaker 1: it's definitely a process. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So so okay,

676
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: let's let's say hypothetically, right, we understand how to look

677
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: at these maps and read them, whether it's an aerial

678
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: or topo or all three combined. Um, Now that we

679
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: have these maps and understanding, how are you actually using

680
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: them as a hunter? I mean, for me, I use

681
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 1: maps in a couple of different ways. I'm I'm looking

682
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: at them when I'm scouting a property, even before I

683
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: go on the ground. I'm looking at it when I'm

684
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: actually hunting, when I'm setting things up or thinking about

685
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: how deer might use it or how I might you know,

686
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,720
Speaker 1: enter actually all these different things. Um. And then even

687
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: you know from how managing a property. But I'm curious

688
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: from your perspective, are you are you use maps in

689
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: any of those ways or in any you know, in

690
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: any other ways. Could you elaborate on how you use

691
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 1: maps in your tool set? Yeah? For sure, and you've

692
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: nailed You've nailed them. Um. Whether you're considering trying to

693
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: access a piece of property you've never been on before,

694
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 1: whether you're maybe looking for permission ground, or even you're

695
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: looking to purchase that property. We work with a lot

696
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 1: of clients that are in land transactions, so um, before

697
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: you even touch that property, the map is going to

698
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 1: be your number one tool. Um, just like you were

699
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 1: going to you know, put you need a blueprint to

700
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: to build a house. You need a map to be

701
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: able to pinpoint where you're going to start scouting. Um,

702
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: your your property. It's going to save you a lot

703
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: of time ahead of if you know what to look for,

704
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: it's gonna save you a lot of time to know

705
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 1: exactly where you pinpoint some of your initial scouting efforts.

706
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: So before you even touch that property, is is vital. Uh.

707
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: And then during during the season, once you've been on

708
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: that property, you go there and your ground truth some

709
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: of the features that you look for. So um, right

710
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: off the bat, I look for um. Okay, number one

711
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 1: question here is where do I think deer are going

712
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: to be betting? Okay, we're gonna look for betting areas.

713
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,919
Speaker 1: We're gonna look for potential food sources, whether there's food

714
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: plots on the property or not. Um, you're gonna look

715
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 1: for your betting areas. You're gonna look for your cover areas.

716
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 1: You're gonna look for your food areas and your your

717
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 1: travel routes in between there and you go on the

718
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: ground and you actually try to ground truth and and

719
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: prove you know, figure out if uh you know what

720
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: you were looking for? Is there look for the deer

721
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: sign to try to confirm uh what, um, you know

722
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: what what you initially thought with the pro pretty so

723
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: as soon as you hit it, you know the map

724
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: is important. And then throughout hunt in the season to

725
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: say you've been on a property for it's five years,

726
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: you know, and you think you know like the back

727
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: of your hand, which you probably do. It's always good

728
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: just to continue to look at that map and really

729
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 1: put together, um, the pieces of the puzzle from encounters

730
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: to camera uh, camera pictures, you've got a specific gear

731
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 1: with trail camera. Um, you look at how you're accessing

732
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: the property, things you could change about it. It's it's

733
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: always uh basically I'm always keeping my map updated and

734
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: looking at the current snapshot of of of what's going

735
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: on with it. So um, that's really you know, even

736
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: in season and in postseason, the map is always playing

737
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: an important role. There's kind of two different ways you can.

738
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 1: You can look at the map, uh and and look

739
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: at your property. There's macro and then there's micro. So

740
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: macro is is how how is your land? And you

741
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: gotta zoom out on this. How is your property that

742
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: you're hunting or thinking about hiding or thinking about buying?

743
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: How is that property? Play into the surrounding area. Um,

744
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: are you competing with a lot of food sources? Do

745
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: you have the best cover in town? Is your ground

746
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 1: a major travel corridor in between bigger chunks of timber?

747
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: You look, you try to you try to see how

748
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: your property plays into the holistic reasonable area of a

749
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: deer herd, which is not I mean unless you have

750
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: thousands of acres um Mature bucks are known to roam

751
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: the square mile or even more depending on where you're

752
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: at and what what what you're covering food is like.

753
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: So you've got to look at the property from a

754
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: macro level and see how the edges of your property

755
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: are are able to exploit year travel on and off

756
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: of it. And then you look at the micro aspect

757
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 1: of studying a map, and that's really looking for these

758
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: specific features that we're talking about. Once we're on a

759
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: on a piece of property, we're looking for specific features

760
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: at that micro level that we can exploit to catch

761
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: up to a deer. You know, whether it's through um,

762
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: we're looking at ways, we're accessing stand locations, we're laying

763
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: out sanctuaries we're not gonna touch except for maybe during

764
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: shed season to give dear you know, a form of

765
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: security year round. UM, we're looking at potential places to

766
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: put in food plots or where we can enhance cover more.

767
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: We're looking for creek crossings, you know that micro level

768
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: once we're actually on a property, So you're never going

769
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: to get the whole story with a map. You've got

770
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: to get on the ground and look for sign in UM,

771
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: you know, confirm really what's going on there, and you've

772
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: got to hunt the property. The map is not just

773
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: gonna hunt for you, but it's gonna give you a

774
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: really good step in getting there quicker. And then it's

775
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: going to be at your side to to really tell

776
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: you and guide you through UM and have a conversation

777
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: with you as crazy as that sounds, on on what

778
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: you should be doing to make adjustments and have success

779
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: in the field. Yeah, you hit it on the head.

780
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: I think there's a couple of things in there that

781
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: I want to comment at. Number one, I love the

782
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: fact that you brought up the point of the of

783
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: the macro level and understanding how your property fits into

784
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: the larger scheme of things. I mean, I think so

785
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: often we get tunnel division right, we look at just

786
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: our property, just within our property, lines, and you know,

787
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: inform all of our hunting decisions or habitat iferment decisions

788
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: all based on that. And that's a huge mistake a

789
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: lot of the time, because to your point, there's so

790
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 1: many of the things that a deer's life encompasses, a

791
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: lot more than just a single property. In most cases,

792
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: you need to know how all these things factor in it.

793
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: So when you're looking to buy a property, even or

794
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: LEAs of property, or trying to get permission on hunting properties,

795
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: understanding how your piece fits into the larger puzzle can

796
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: be a make or break decision. I mean, for example,

797
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: my southern Ohio lease is a very small piece. It's

798
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: ninety acres of which only like forty acres or even huntable.

799
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: The rest is just field, So it's a it's a

800
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: pretty darn small piece of actual huntable ground. But because

801
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 1: of how it fits into the larger landscape, it pulls

802
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: deer in from a much wider area and funnels them

803
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: into this section, so it makes it a much more

804
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 1: huntable and much better property than it might look if

805
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: you were to just look within the border. So super

806
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: super important to look at the big picture. Um. And

807
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: then like you said, it can it can guide you

808
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: throughout the season than two from a from a decision standpoint,

809
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 1: and even before the hunting season. I want to make

810
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: a point where when it comes to scouting, there's nothing

811
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: more important from a scouting aspect for me at least

812
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: than those initial hours or days scouting via map um.

813
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: It makes real on the ground scouting so much more

814
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: effective and in efficient. Really, I mean, especially when I'm

815
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 1: hunting these out of state locations that some other guys

816
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 1: do to where I'm you know, traveling to Iowa, Ohio,

817
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: and I only have a weekend or a day or

818
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: something to scout a new property. I can't walk every

819
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: square inch of it, right, most of us don't have

820
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: the time to walk every square inch of a property

821
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: that we maybe already have permission hunt or might have

822
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: permission hunt, or whatever it is. But if you can

823
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 1: look at a map and identify some of those key

824
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,479
Speaker 1: things you mentioned, Ben, like, all right, I think there's

825
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 1: probably betting here, I think there's probably a good food

826
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: source here, and then spend your five hours just double

827
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 1: checking those places. Man, you can be a lot more

828
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 1: effective with your time. So so you can definitely get

829
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: ahead of the game. Yeah, and one other example that

830
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: came to mind when you were talking about almost having

831
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: a conversation with a map, and I like that in

832
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: hellogy Um because because it's maybe I'm weird, but it's

833
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: true in my case, Like I can look at a

834
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: map throughout a season over and over. I mean I

835
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 1: literally look at Matt before every single hunt and sometimes

836
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: after every single hunt, like every single day, I'm looking

837
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: at these maps and I'm thinking through how I'm going

838
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 1: to move on the property, and how I think dear

839
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: are going to move on the property, and then how

840
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: the wind is moving on the property, and so that

841
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 1: that's an everyday thing for me throughout the season. And

842
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: if I didn't have a good map to look at,

843
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: I'd be I'd be blind. So an example of this

844
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: which is interesting and it almost paid off in the

845
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: hugest way, Um and our listeners know, I hunted a

846
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: new property, a couple of new properties in Iowa last year.

847
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: So I got permission on him, and I had like

848
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: an hour or two to walk both of these properties.

849
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: And they were like four hundred seven A properties, so

850
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 1: I had very little time to walk them. I just

851
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: kind of checked some some key places. But even with

852
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: that small amount of scouting, and there's still a lot

853
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: I didn't know. So before my first trip to hunt,

854
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: my buddy and I sat at a little dinner one

855
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: Thursday morning, and I had my map with me, and

856
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 1: we sat down and drank coffee for like two and

857
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: a half hours with this map in between us, and

858
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: we just looked at it and talked about it. I

859
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: think there might be something happened here, and what do

860
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: you think about how the deer might be using that

861
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 1: ridge line and kind of this kind of looks like

862
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: this might be a good way to access based on

863
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: what I saw here, And here's a creek bottom. I

864
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: think I can sneak up there. So for two hours

865
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: we just sat there and walked through how we thought

866
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: deer we were using this and how I went want

867
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: to hunt it. And so when I when I initially

868
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 1: came into that morning, I was thinking, Okay, my first hunt,

869
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 1: I want to be relatively low risk, right, I don't

870
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: want to I don't really know what's going on, so

871
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: I want to be able to. I want to learn

872
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,399
Speaker 1: from my first time without screwing things up too much.

873
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: But at the same time, there's a cold front coming

874
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: and conditions were great, so I wanted to, you know,

875
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: be in a position where I might be able to

876
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: catch some actions. So there was this point, there's this

877
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: point of a crowd field extending into this larger section

878
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: of timber that I thought might be worth hunting. So,

879
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: you know, before pre pre coffee and maps, that's where

880
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: I was going to go. So for two hours we

881
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: sat talking about Okay, yeah, that looks good, and we're

882
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: talking about the wind direction, what I was supposed to

883
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,959
Speaker 1: be and all that, and somehow, for the first two

884
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 1: hours or whatever it was that we were sitting there

885
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: actually was the whole conversation. We were thinking, that's a

886
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: good idea. And it wasn't until I went home later

887
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 1: that day I looked at the map again, and it's

888
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: funny how, I don't know, it's probably more of a

889
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: me thing than a map thing, but all of a

890
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: sudden something clicked in my head with that map that

891
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 1: I was thinking about the reverse the whole all the

892
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: wrong way, and I started thinking, with that wind, I

893
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: actually think the deer would be traveling a different direction

894
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: to take advantage of that, and also with the wind.

895
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: How it was looking at that map and I actually

896
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: look almost like pencil in or marker, and sometimes you

897
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: know where I think or craned in where I think

898
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 1: that wind's gonna be blown, just like a visualized I'm

899
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 1: a visual guy when it comes to these things. So

900
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,760
Speaker 1: after doing all this thinking, I finally had this aha

901
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: moment that said, no, you are going about the completely

902
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: wrong way. You need to go to this other point

903
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: where it wasn't a point but an extension of the

904
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 1: timber out into the field, so the opposite section where

905
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: I could access it a lot easier. But I found

906
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: this little hidden water hole that I hadn't seen before

907
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,800
Speaker 1: until after staring that map for two and a half hours,

908
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: and lo and behold, I snuck in there, hung stand

909
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: the first night, and I had the biggest eight pointer

910
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 1: four or five year old I've ever seen in my

911
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 1: life within twenty yards of my stand. Um, I'm now

912
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: sure there's a little bit luck in that. But if

913
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: I hadn't spent two and a half hours thinking and

914
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,479
Speaker 1: thinking and visualizing and looking at this map, I would

915
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: have never sat there. Who knows what to happened. Um, Yeah,

916
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: that's a very long winded example, but there's so much

917
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: to listen. It's it's uh a lot of guys or

918
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 1: either hunting public ground, which they're dealing with huge, huge

919
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: potential areas to hunt you thousands of acres, or maybe

920
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 1: they're going out of state on do yourself hunt somewhere. Um,

921
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: you've got to maximize and make your time in the

922
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: field as beneficial as possible, and just aimlessly walking around

923
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 1: on the property is not going to get you too far.

924
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, that's that's great. And I have

925
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: the same thing, you know, I I got so focused

926
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: on chasing this one deer this year, I neglected some

927
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: other parts of the property, and UM, it hit me

928
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: one day looking at this map. I'm like, man, I

929
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: was getting some great pictures on this part of the farm,

930
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: of consistent pictures, and this this one deer, and and

931
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: there's either on the other part of the farm, and

932
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: it just kind of hit me. And this one hillside

933
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 1: I never even attempted to check out because it was

934
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: a little more and didn't want to put a camera

935
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: back there because I thought I would do more damage

936
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: than good. But I just neglected it and I got

937
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 1: focused on this this other buck. You know that I'm

938
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: chasing this pretty confined area. UM. I went their postseason

939
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: and sure enough. I mean, it was like a light

940
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 1: switch went off that hillside that I want to look on,

941
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 1: and it took me about all the three minutes to

942
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 1: find a major buck, like a true buck betting area,

943
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: mature buck betting area. He had he had multiple trees

944
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: grinding down like the handle of a Louisville slugger. So, um,

945
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like, oh man, I mean,

946
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: it's that's after the fact now, but I'll remember that

947
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: going into next year. Whether that buck that made that

948
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: specific set of rubs and that is his bed right there,

949
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: whether he survived or or not, is regardless to the

950
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: fact that another one could be there as well. So um,

951
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's something that you know, you don't

952
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: always in us as hunters, especially free range white tails.

953
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: You never you never always figured out that these animals

954
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: are always one step ahead of you. She gotta you know,

955
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: be looking at at at as much information as you

956
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: can get to catch up to one of these boys.

957
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 1: So all right, So we've covered a lot so far,

958
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: but we haven't even really gotten into the detailed part

959
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: of all this, which is the meat and potatoes of

960
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: the specific types of features you can identify in maps

961
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: and how to use those as you set stands and

962
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: actually hunt. But before we get to all that, we

963
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: do need to pause for a very brief intermission of

964
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: sorts to thank our sponsors of this episode, Trophy Ridge,

965
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: and today I wanted to briefly talk about one of

966
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: the categories that Trophy Ridge participates in, which is a arrests,

967
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: and specifically, I want to very quickly discuss the pros

968
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 1: and cons of the two main types of air arrests available,

969
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: you know, those being full containment rests and drop away rests.

970
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: And if you're a relatively new bow hunter, this is

971
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 1: something you really want to pay attention to, so I

972
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 1: thought i'd give you a quick overview. So first, full

973
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: containment rests. These rests are typically what I'd recommend for

974
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,439
Speaker 1: newer hunters because they are nearly fool proof. I say

975
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: that because these rests, you know, it's evidence by their name,

976
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 1: fully hold the arrow inside, you know, within that rest.

977
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: It keeps you from ever having the chance of that

978
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,800
Speaker 1: arrow falling off or bouncing around off the rest, anything

979
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: like that while you're actually the tree. I've had that

980
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: happened before in the past when I was using the

981
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: old two pronged arrest, which was something I start out

982
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: with when I was like thirteen years old. So this

983
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 1: today looks like something like the trophy wit excuse me,

984
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: the trophy ridge whisker biscuit, which is essentially a circle

985
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 1: of bristles which holds your arrow in the middle and

986
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: allow the veins to pass through. Or there are like

987
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: three prong releases or sorry rests, which hold an arrow

988
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 1: in place from from three different directions wholly in the middle.

989
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: So that's a popular option, especially for beginners. But the

990
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: downside of these is that there are significant contact between

991
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: your arrow and the rest, and the longer you arrow

992
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 1: is in contact with any part of your bow, the

993
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: greater the chance is that you might move that bow

994
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: in some way, which in turn impacts the arrow flight.

995
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: So to avoid that, the drop away rest was created,

996
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,320
Speaker 1: which in short, is a rest that, upon release, drops

997
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,720
Speaker 1: out of the path of the arrow. Now these rests

998
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: are widely believed to be a little bit more accurate

999
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: than your full containment, but with many of these you

1000
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:35,839
Speaker 1: lose some of that aero security that you would have

1001
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 1: with a full containment design. So with all that being said,

1002
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: when I first got a compound bow, I used a

1003
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,799
Speaker 1: Trophy Ridge whisker biscuit and it worked great for me,

1004
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: But eventually I was becoming a little bit more advanced

1005
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 1: and I wanted to try to squeeze a little bit

1006
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 1: more accuracy out of my bow, and I switched to

1007
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: a drop away. So now, most recently I've been using

1008
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 1: a trophy Ridge h X drop away rest, which does

1009
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 1: in fact have some pretty solid containment measures in place

1010
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 1: as well. So I hope this is helpful. You know,

1011
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: we've recently been getting a lot of emails and tweets

1012
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 1: and Facebook messages from people who have been inspired by

1013
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 1: the podcast to try bo hunting for the first time.

1014
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,240
Speaker 1: So I thought i'd share this kind of beginner look

1015
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: at err arrest because that's a that's a topic that

1016
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: I know I struggle with a lot when I first

1017
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: started bo hunting, trying to figure out what's the right

1018
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: way to go. So I hope this is a quick,

1019
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: helpful primer. If you want more information, there's there's lots

1020
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 1: of stuff online. I would definitely recommend you go Google

1021
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 1: or arrests and plenty to read. If you are specifically

1022
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 1: interested in learning more about Trophy Ridge, you can go

1023
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: to Trophy ridge dot com. So with all that out

1024
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: of the way, now, let's get back to the show.

1025
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: So so true. It's a never ending process. And I

1026
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 1: think me and Dan always like to talk like to joke,

1027
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: and I guess that's probably why we love it so much,

1028
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,720
Speaker 1: is that it's just you can never you can never

1029
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: put the whole piece, the whole puzzle together, You never

1030
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 1: solve the equation completely. It's a there's always going to

1031
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: be something more. Um so so, given, I guess kind

1032
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 1: of where we've gone so far, right, We've got the

1033
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 1: basics of our maps down. We've talked about all the

1034
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 1: different ways you can use maps. I think one of

1035
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 1: the aspects of using maps that a lot of people

1036
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,720
Speaker 1: either struggle with or just want to learn more about,

1037
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: is Okay, what are the specific things I'm looking for

1038
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 1: on a map? And then you know, what's that actually

1039
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 1: look like on the ground. So how do I find

1040
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 1: it on a map? How do I ground truth it?

1041
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: And then how to hunters and or deer or I

1042
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 1: guess both, how do deer use them? And then how

1043
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: to hot nurse need to use them? Um So I'm

1044
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 1: going to kind of give you I'm gonna kind of

1045
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 1: grill you here, ben Um. You had mentioned a bunch

1046
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: of different types of features as we've been talking so far,

1047
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 1: and I've been keeping notice some of those, so I

1048
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 1: want to I want to dig deeper into a bunch

1049
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,879
Speaker 1: of these in detail, if that, If that sounds good

1050
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: to you. Um, So how about funnels at first? We've

1051
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: kind of talked about this a little bit and we

1052
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: mentioned a lot in the podcast, but I think it's

1053
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: always worth revisiting some of these in detail. Can you

1054
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 1: kind of layout for us? Okay, what's the funnel? What

1055
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:58,879
Speaker 1: are the different types of funnels? Um? And that would

1056
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: be interest in hearing like detail examples of what those

1057
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: different types of funnals might look like. Sure, and man,

1058
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 1: this could be a conversation that could go on for

1059
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 1: a long time with how to hunt eat all these

1060
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 1: different types of funnels. But basically the concept of a funnel,

1061
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,439
Speaker 1: um you might be reading an article as or see

1062
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 1: on on television or whatnot. Um. Sometimes they're called pinch points,

1063
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 1: sometimes they're called bottlenecks. There's there's some different names for

1064
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 1: these things. But basically the goal is to find features

1065
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 1: that are going to uh force that that deer are

1066
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 1: going to naturally. UM. Be uh confined. They confined, But

1067
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 1: basically areas are gonna push deer through entighter areas that

1068
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 1: you can you know that you can possibly get a

1069
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: shot at. So UM, deer are looking for the most

1070
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 1: efficient way to get from A to B in the

1071
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: safest manner. You know that caveat is the safest. So

1072
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 1: it's not always the shortest distance. It's going to be

1073
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 1: the easiest, the easiest way to get from one place

1074
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: to the next, but they feel safe. So UM. You

1075
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: think about funnels just like we talked about our map

1076
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 1: layers in two different ways. You've got your terrain funnels,

1077
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: so actual topographic features that are going to um guide

1078
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: deer movement based on elevation change. So you've got your benches,

1079
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: your saddles, ditches and draws, points on the end of

1080
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: a ridge, blocks. All of these features are one way

1081
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 1: or another going to play into deer movement. UM. And

1082
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: then you've got your land cover features, which are sometimes

1083
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 1: easier to see, so streams, um roads, ponds, fence lines, gates,

1084
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 1: these gates isn't necessarily a piece of land cover, but

1085
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 1: you've got these hardened areas that are going to uh

1086
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: have deer get from A to B in the in

1087
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 1: the safest manner and the most blatant want to think

1088
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 1: about is is the brushy fence line. So, UM, I

1089
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: hunt these a lot in Kansas. Uh every year we

1090
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: go we go there and there's not big tracks of timber,

1091
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: but there's these smaller wood lots that are connected with

1092
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: brushy fence lines. And that fence line is going to

1093
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 1: have the most security in a straight path from one

1094
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: piece of timber to the next. And they can be

1095
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: really hot during the right whenever bucks are are seeking those.

1096
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: So um, you look for these these areas that are

1097
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 1: going to you're gonna be able to um assume the

1098
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 1: deer are going to be forced into moving a certain

1099
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: way based on either the elevation change or the cover.

1100
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, and I'd add one another um to the

1101
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 1: to the to the cover related funnels is actually just cover,

1102
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 1: so not even necessarily a fence or a gate, but

1103
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: also just if there's thicker brush even you know, if

1104
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: there's a thick brushy section that crosses a wide open field,

1105
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 1: or if there's a line of cedar trees or a

1106
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: section where two wood two square woodlots come together at

1107
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 1: a corner and there's just a corner that meets um.

1108
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 1: You know, even just brush or or vegetation can get

1109
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: great a funnel in that way. If there's not, you know,

1110
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: funnels in in some other way larger cover. So so yeah,

1111
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:41,959
Speaker 1: there's so many different types of funnels that you mentioned. Um. Well,

1112
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 1: when it comes to want to I want to take

1113
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:46,320
Speaker 1: a step back real quick. One thing I didn't mention

1114
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 1: mark was the concept of before we get into all

1115
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: these different terrain features and cover features, we can talk

1116
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 1: about the concept of edge. Um. Ed's just really uh,

1117
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: not even necessarily a white cell, but an animal's best friend.

1118
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: It's funny because Aldo Leopold. Aldo Leopold actually wrote about this.

1119
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: Is the famous quotes is the variety and density of

1120
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: life is greatest along edge. So basically you get these

1121
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: areas that are really attractive to wildlife, whether it's for

1122
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 1: travel or security, or a variety of brows or even

1123
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 1: just for a social opportunity. Anytime you can look at

1124
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: a map and see a change, which is basically the

1125
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: definition of edge. What I'm talking about is where terrain

1126
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 1: or cover changes over landscapes, So where a field meets timber,

1127
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: where heavy cover meets open pasture. Um where uh you know,

1128
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 1: your your food plot meets your CRP. Really any any

1129
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 1: any change that you look for is really right off

1130
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: the bat. If I'm starting from scratch, I'm gonna look

1131
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 1: at a at a property and I'm going to look

1132
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 1: at the aerial and it's going to identify where these

1133
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 1: changes of edge bar So, um, it's pretty cool. I

1134
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 1: was doing some research about, you know, the concept of edge,

1135
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 1: concept of edge and and uh Native Americans actually used

1136
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 1: to burn areas in their in their timber and then

1137
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 1: where it meets the prairie, and then deer in wildlife

1138
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 1: in general would go there where there was the succulent

1139
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: re growth right on the edge of the timber prairie

1140
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 1: was a hotspot for where they would hunt. So it's

1141
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 1: like you've got to think that's almost like the beginning

1142
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: of the history of food plots almost, which is really

1143
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: not exactly what they're trying to do. But you know,

1144
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 1: the concept of edge from a wildlife perspective is the

1145
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 1: most important part. So all of these terrain finals and

1146
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: tinch points and cover uh features, it all has to

1147
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: do with edge and change. That's a great point. And

1148
01:01:57,640 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: one other edge that I just thought of as your

1149
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 1: kind of running through those different examples, which which kind

1150
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 1: of applies to a circumstance that I've dealt with in

1151
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 1: the past. One of the challenges I've had hunting up

1152
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 1: at my northern Michigan property where I grew up learning

1153
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: hunt was that a big portion of these properties were

1154
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 1: just huge timbers. There's tons and tons and tons of timber,

1155
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 1: and I always was I always kind of struggle fear,

1156
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 1: how the heck do you hunt this when there isn't

1157
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 1: like a definite food source. There isn't like a definite

1158
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 1: betting area. And one of the things I realized is

1159
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 1: that even though there aren't these defined kind of features

1160
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 1: like there might be an egg land in Michi, Lower

1161
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 1: Michigan or Iowa, even though those easy features weren't there,

1162
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: there still were edges like you mentioned. And that's what

1163
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 1: I keyed in on us. Okay, where are the edges?

1164
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: And it might not even be like a field to timber,

1165
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 1: but even an edge within timber. So what I ended

1166
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 1: up keying in on is I could find an edge

1167
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 1: between conifers like cedars, and where the where the cedar

1168
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 1: patches bumped up against an edge of open oak timber.

1169
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, I realized, Hey, these are edges

1170
01:02:57,760 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 1: where all of a sudden deer are traveling, or the

1171
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: edge of a little bit of a swamp, your wetter

1172
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 1: air with a higher, higher ground, dryer area. All of

1173
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: a sudden I started realizing, hey, there's where bucks are

1174
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 1: cruising too. So in a big timber situation, even finding

1175
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 1: those edges of unique sect types of timber or types

1176
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: of cover within that larger timber section can be helpful too.

1177
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 1: That's a just a specific example I thought of that

1178
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: I found helpful. Um But going going back, I guess

1179
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: to the specifics Now that we understand you know the

1180
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 1: importance of edge, which which is huge. How about the

1181
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:34,919
Speaker 1: terrain funnels? Can we talk about a few of those,

1182
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 1: um in detail? I want to talk about saddles. You

1183
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 1: already mentioned benches a little bit, but how how are

1184
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 1: deer using saddles? And what what does that look like?

1185
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 1: I know you use our knuckle example, but can you

1186
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 1: elaborate and saddles all bit? Yeah? Yeah, So if you

1187
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 1: remember the staring at your fist, the saddle is going

1188
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 1: to be that low spot in between your your two

1189
01:03:56,280 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 1: knuckles or the low spot in real life in between

1190
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: um two hills, two hills, or or a low spot

1191
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 1: along a ridgeline, and a lot of times it seems

1192
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 1: like deer will go um, they'll use those to get

1193
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:15,120
Speaker 1: from one side of the hill to the next because

1194
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 1: it's the path at least resistance. You know, a lot

1195
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 1: of times deer quite frankly lazy creatures, so um to

1196
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 1: get from one side of the hill, they want to

1197
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 1: go on the other side. Uh, they're going to use

1198
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 1: that lowest spot um on on on the ridge line,

1199
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 1: which is going to be your saddle. So it's not

1200
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 1: always it's not like there. I know, I don't necessarily

1201
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 1: have any saddles on this property. I'm hunting in Iowa,

1202
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 1: but back in Pennsylvania and the original property I grew

1203
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: up hunting, there's a dynamite saddle and you can identify

1204
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 1: it from the top of map um. It's pretty blatant

1205
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 1: and it basically looks like an hour glass, you know,

1206
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 1: if you're looking at those contoler lines in between two

1207
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 1: hills hills. But it's it's a great stand location we've

1208
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 1: had for a really long time. You actually had to

1209
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 1: switch out stands multiple times from the tree growing into it.

1210
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 1: Mean it's one of those places where there will always

1211
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 1: be stand location because especially during the rut for for

1212
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: a deer you know, about to cover more ground and

1213
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 1: potentially find that dough quicker or easier that that is

1214
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 1: just a natural easy way for him to hop over

1215
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:27,640
Speaker 1: to the inner side. So saddle is a you know,

1216
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: that's a that's definitely a good one, especially for the ruck. Yeah,

1217
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: I agree, and especially like in what it sounds like

1218
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 1: you had in Pennsylvania. Um again sections of of bigger

1219
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 1: timber where there's not as much of the cover funnels

1220
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 1: excuse me, like we talked about, but these terrain funnels

1221
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 1: like a saddle. Like if you're trying to figure out

1222
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 1: a new piece of property, let's say, uh, you know,

1223
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 1: public land in Tennessee or West Virginia or something like that,

1224
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 1: where you have big timber and some rolling topography, some

1225
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: hills and stuff, it's it's hard at first to figure

1226
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 1: out how the heck do I approach this? But if

1227
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 1: you look at a map that shows this these topographic contours,

1228
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 1: like you said, you can see that hourglass type of

1229
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: of line shape there that indicates, yeah, here's a saddle,

1230
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 1: and right away, boom, you know, that's a spot that

1231
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 1: could potentially funnel deer, and like you said, during the rut,

1232
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 1: it's a great time to be there. And the same

1233
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 1: thing goes for benches like you talked about, right, those

1234
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 1: are the gaps where there's the very close together lines

1235
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 1: and then a little bit wider and then tight again

1236
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 1: beneath it. Where that's one other example of deer using

1237
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 1: the path of at least resistance where it's easier for

1238
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 1: them to walk that flatter bench along a hillside or

1239
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 1: ridge when they're trying to get to point he or b. Um.

1240
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 1: So these terrain funnels I think are huge, especially during

1241
01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 1: the rut time frame and when you're trying to trying

1242
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 1: to figure out how to approach a property that maybe

1243
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:52,919
Speaker 1: doesn't have these easier generic cover funnels that you see

1244
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 1: on the outdoor channel or whatever. Um, these can be

1245
01:06:56,720 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 1: super helpful. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. UM. So

1246
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 1: you've got saddles and benches, um that all kind of

1247
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 1: plays into Um. To to have a saddle, you need

1248
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 1: a ridge. So a ridge is probably the most common

1249
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 1: terrain term that we all talked about his hunters and

1250
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 1: in the ridge is essentially um extending terrain that is

1251
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,840
Speaker 1: at a higher elevation from its surrounding arenas. It's you're

1252
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 1: gonna have a ridge that extends out as a line,

1253
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 1: and at the at the end of that ridge, there's

1254
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 1: always going to be an end of the ridge and

1255
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 1: it's going to start to slope down. That's going to

1256
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 1: be your point. So deer aren't necessarily moving right along

1257
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: the top of of of the ridge, like right along

1258
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 1: the crest of it. I mean, that's gonna be whether

1259
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 1: they're able to be predators could silhouette them. So it

1260
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 1: seems like a lot of times these white tails are

1261
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: moving thirty yards or or or farther off of the

1262
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:59,440
Speaker 1: edge of the very crest of the ridge on either side,

1263
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 1: and those trails meander along at at a certain elevation

1264
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 1: or park at an angle from the bottom, working their

1265
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 1: way up to the to the top and then towards

1266
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 1: the point of the ridge. Got another three standum on

1267
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:18,559
Speaker 1: the Pennsylvania property. That um, it's just in dynamite. It's

1268
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 1: it's not at the very um. It's at the end

1269
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 1: of the ridge and it starts to slope down a

1270
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 1: little bit, and it's it's really good because whenever you

1271
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 1: hunt off of these ridges you can be assured that

1272
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 1: you've got a pretty consistent wind. That's one thing that

1273
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's important. You want to know where your

1274
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 1: wind is going to be going in the possibility for

1275
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 1: a wind change, how that's going to affect, you know,

1276
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: the rest of your sit So um at the end

1277
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 1: of the point, you'll find sometimes multiple trails intersecting, and

1278
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,719
Speaker 1: that that can be really good a lot of different

1279
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 1: times throughout throughout the year based on you know, if

1280
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 1: you're hunting in the morning or you're hunting in the

1281
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:59,160
Speaker 1: in the afternoon, where the food sources, where the betting is,

1282
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 1: but it still bringing multiple possible trails together at an

1283
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:07,800
Speaker 1: interesting terrain feature. So that point at the end of

1284
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 1: a ridge is a I mean, that's been a big

1285
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:11,559
Speaker 1: one for me. And the fact that you can huntle

1286
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 1: with a steady wind. It's it's always a no brainer.

1287
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:15,720
Speaker 1: When I look at the top of the map of

1288
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,680
Speaker 1: the aerial, You're gonna find a ridge that looks that

1289
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 1: looks solid, and I'm gonna look at the point and

1290
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 1: probably get a stand there. And and so you're staying

1291
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 1: with the point. You have deer that hypothetically might be

1292
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 1: traveling on either side of the ridge potentially, and when

1293
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:31,960
Speaker 1: they get to the point though, the point is where

1294
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:35,840
Speaker 1: those two sides coincide in the middle, right, that's where

1295
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 1: they come together. So that point gives you the fact

1296
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:40,760
Speaker 1: that you're you're working one line of travel like deer

1297
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 1: likely to travel along the edge of that ridge. And

1298
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 1: then heck, this is where the two ridges come together.

1299
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:49,840
Speaker 1: You double your odds, right Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

1300
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 1: I mean we're always looking, you know, or ground treets.

1301
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 1: I'm looking for where you know, one trail is nice,

1302
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 1: where two trails meet is even nicer. And then when

1303
01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 1: three trails meat, that's that's the real deal. So um yeah,

1304
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 1: a lot of times you can find that at the point.

1305
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:08,760
Speaker 1: And it seems like, um, I've had multiple encounters with

1306
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:13,600
Speaker 1: a couple of bandybucks that that are skirting the basically

1307
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 1: one one side of the ridge and they come right

1308
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:20,719
Speaker 1: around the point, um maybe a third of the way down,

1309
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: and then they're they're working their way around. They're basically

1310
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:25,639
Speaker 1: just scent checking as much as they can off of

1311
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 1: off of that ridge. So eventually, if it gets the

1312
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 1: whole way around you, unless your your wind is blowing

1313
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:33,680
Speaker 1: straight up the ridge line, straight off the ridge line, Um,

1314
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 1: you know, that could be a detriment or good if

1315
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 1: it blows over over the trail, But um, it just

1316
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:42,639
Speaker 1: seems like it's a hot spot for deer whenever they're

1317
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 1: their cruising and working their way from from bed to

1318
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 1: feet or even during the retling bucks are are looking

1319
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 1: for those. Yeah, you make you made a You brought

1320
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 1: up a good point about the wind when it comes

1321
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:55,919
Speaker 1: to sets like that, I've always found, like as you mentioned,

1322
01:10:56,280 --> 01:10:59,000
Speaker 1: most of the travel seems to be at least what

1323
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 1: i've seen usually is needs to be one or two

1324
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 1: places you're either going to see a lot of the travel,

1325
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 1: like you said, like about a third the way down

1326
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 1: the ridge sort of near the top along as edges,

1327
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 1: or you'll see you'll see some right in the bottom

1328
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 1: sometimes when there's larger valleys and things, or that might

1329
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 1: be where they're you know, coming from another side and

1330
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:14,639
Speaker 1: dropped on the bottom. But the the challenge with those

1331
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 1: bottom locations, at least from what I've seen, what a

1332
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 1: lot of guys have talked to is right when you

1333
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:22,120
Speaker 1: get down low, your wind is not steady. You're gonna

1334
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 1: get swirling winds and you're gonna get things messed up

1335
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 1: with the wind. But if you stay up higher and

1336
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 1: take advantage of that top third, that's where like you,

1337
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 1: as you mentioned second ago, that's where you can get

1338
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:34,679
Speaker 1: steadier wind. So you're you're safer from from a wind

1339
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 1: perspective and still taking advantage of a common travel pattern. Um,

1340
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:41,680
Speaker 1: which is why I think, you know, at least for me,

1341
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:43,680
Speaker 1: as I'm hunting more in these areas with a lot

1342
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,680
Speaker 1: of you know, changing terrain, a ridgeline is is an

1343
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 1: automatic go to area. Again, whether it be a saddle

1344
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 1: or just a ridge without saddles. But again, that's something

1345
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:56,599
Speaker 1: that consistently seems to attract a consistent pattern of deer

1346
01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:00,639
Speaker 1: movement which you can take advantage of. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

1347
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 1: And it's it's easy to get sucked into the when

1348
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:07,800
Speaker 1: you're scouting, especially on the bottoms where you can see

1349
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 1: a lot of good deer side. Um. You know, I've

1350
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:13,559
Speaker 1: I've I've seen where people write about you know, bucks

1351
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:16,679
Speaker 1: prefer those those lower areas in a in a draw

1352
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:19,400
Speaker 1: where it's it's maybe flat, and they're just totally secluded

1353
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 1: from the pressure of hunting or the pressure of of

1354
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:25,760
Speaker 1: other other deer dope families. You know, they kind of

1355
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:29,519
Speaker 1: got their own spot there lose mature bucks and it's tempting.

1356
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:31,559
Speaker 1: You can go down and see a bunch of straps,

1357
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:34,160
Speaker 1: a bunch of rubs, but if you don't have a

1358
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 1: consistent wind, it's only a matter of time till you

1359
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:39,680
Speaker 1: get picked off and you know you you damage you're

1360
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 1: hunting season um pretty fast. So yeah, the ridges and

1361
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 1: and what's on the ridges and what's that the end?

1362
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 1: The ridges are exciting and then that kind of transitions

1363
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 1: um right into you know, what is a draw and

1364
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 1: how does that play off of a ridge and from

1365
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:59,679
Speaker 1: a terrain perspective, and that can be pretty exciting for

1366
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:04,479
Speaker 1: for your Yeah, so I two things I guess I

1367
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 1: wanted to one quick tiny step back, um and just

1368
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:09,240
Speaker 1: mentioning one of the thing with ridges that I've seen

1369
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:11,519
Speaker 1: that I think is worth worth taking note of again

1370
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 1: and tell me if you've seen this too, um, is

1371
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:17,640
Speaker 1: that lots of times in places with ridge lines that

1372
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 1: with that kind of terrain, you're going to see a

1373
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 1: lot of dear bedding on ridges or little knobs off

1374
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:26,040
Speaker 1: of ridges that seemed to attract and be quality bedding

1375
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:29,720
Speaker 1: areas for deer, especially buck beds. I found, um, some

1376
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 1: of the best buck beds I found have been in

1377
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 1: such a situations where you where you see a little

1378
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:36,640
Speaker 1: knob or something coming off of a consistent ridge with

1379
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:38,559
Speaker 1: a little patch of cover on it maybe and you'll

1380
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 1: find that buck. At least from what I've heard and seen,

1381
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:43,040
Speaker 1: lots of these bucks will bed with their back to

1382
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:46,240
Speaker 1: the ridge, looking down over that draw or that valley,

1383
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 1: and then they can they can watch ahead of them,

1384
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 1: and they can smell behind them. Um, And it's it's

1385
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:53,560
Speaker 1: kind of a great situation for for a bucker or

1386
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:55,840
Speaker 1: any deer to bed. So that's something I was keying on.

1387
01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:58,280
Speaker 1: When I'm looking at a map, I try to identify

1388
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:01,479
Speaker 1: those ridges and then okay, it might be a funnel,

1389
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:04,000
Speaker 1: but then also where might the betting years be along

1390
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 1: that along that ridge, And then that's going to help

1391
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:12,599
Speaker 1: inform how I hunt, especially during the rut to Yeah, yeah,

1392
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:16,599
Speaker 1: for sure. The um it's funny you mentioned the buckbetting areas.

1393
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 1: There's a phenomenal article that is just written by the

1394
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:23,240
Speaker 1: guy you've had on multiple times on the show, Jeff.

1395
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:25,880
Speaker 1: They're just um, he just put together this article two

1396
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 1: days ago that talks about different buckbetting areas and that's

1397
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:32,760
Speaker 1: one scenario that um, he kind of lays out three

1398
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:37,920
Speaker 1: different environments for for a white tail hunter, from swampland

1399
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 1: to flat agricultural land for really hilly country, and what

1400
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:44,799
Speaker 1: you just mentioned there is definitely one of the prime

1401
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:47,400
Speaker 1: spots too for for a buck to bet is kind

1402
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: of higher up on that ridge, overlooking the bottom with

1403
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 1: his wind in his back. And then what's interesting when

1404
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 1: it comes to this hill country and your in your

1405
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 1: ridges and in the benches, you're hunting off of benches

1406
01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:00,720
Speaker 1: on the side of these ridges. U you've got you've

1407
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 1: got your thermals that come into play. So, um, just

1408
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 1: I guess a quick breakdown the thermals is essentially wind

1409
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 1: currents that rise and fall throughout the day from the

1410
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 1: atmosphere heating up or cooling down. So if a buck

1411
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:20,479
Speaker 1: is bettered in the morning on higher ground, he's able

1412
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 1: to smell everything that's that's below him. He's probably gonna

1413
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:25,479
Speaker 1: be able to see a decent amount, but if he's

1414
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:28,439
Speaker 1: gonna say cover, he'll at least be able to smell

1415
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,800
Speaker 1: everything is below him. Because as the sun peeks up

1416
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,800
Speaker 1: over the over the horizon and starts to heat up

1417
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:39,080
Speaker 1: the air, those wind currents are gonna just come from

1418
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:41,880
Speaker 1: the bottom and they're gonna rise up and it's literally

1419
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 1: going to be like a wind. I'll never forget this.

1420
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 1: This past fall. I was just it was like the

1421
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:51,320
Speaker 1: picture perfect day. It's actually Halloween morning, I believe. Um

1422
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 1: sitting there in a famous stand my dad and I

1423
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:58,519
Speaker 1: call skyscraper, and uh, it's it's right off the side

1424
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:02,280
Speaker 1: of a ridge and there's no wind that I'm I'm

1425
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 1: sitting in a in a beech tree and an old, one,

1426
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:09,640
Speaker 1: great great tree to put a tree stand in regardless,

1427
01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 1: I'm looking at these branches that extend out and they

1428
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:14,720
Speaker 1: hold their leaves longer throughout the year than than a

1429
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:17,439
Speaker 1: lot of other trees. And these the whole limb is

1430
01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:22,840
Speaker 1: just rising and then ten seconds later it'll drop, and

1431
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 1: then it'll rise for a little while and then it

1432
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:27,519
Speaker 1: will drop. It thinking, man, that's crazy, and it just

1433
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:29,760
Speaker 1: it struck me. And that's a thumbel I'm seeing right there.

1434
01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 1: So that air is literally coming from the bottom and

1435
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:35,760
Speaker 1: rising the whole way up the side of that hill. Um.

1436
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:37,840
Speaker 1: And there must have been a pretty aggressive one. It's

1437
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 1: like a really cold morning until the sun came up.

1438
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:43,720
Speaker 1: So it's interesting to see that. And then as the

1439
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:46,320
Speaker 1: sun sets, you're literally going to get the reverse of

1440
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:50,759
Speaker 1: what happens and that sun sets, that air is cooled

1441
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:53,799
Speaker 1: and it's gonna drop back down into those cooler areas.

1442
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:57,160
Speaker 1: So just another thing to think about whenever you know

1443
01:16:57,320 --> 01:17:00,360
Speaker 1: it comes to your scent and your wind and how

1444
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 1: all of that's playing into the terrain, and you know

1445
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:05,640
Speaker 1: it's all just one big crazy picture you know for

1446
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:08,680
Speaker 1: a white don Yeah, yeah, great, great point, especially when

1447
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 1: you're hunting in areas that have this type of change

1448
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:13,599
Speaker 1: in terrain with ridges and stuff. That's where these things

1449
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 1: really really make a big difference. So huge point. Um,

1450
01:17:17,479 --> 01:17:19,400
Speaker 1: And I guess just to I don't I can't remember

1451
01:17:19,439 --> 01:17:21,800
Speaker 1: if we mentioned at the beginning of this, uh the

1452
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 1: ridge little piece or not. But but when you're looking

1453
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 1: at a map, right, you can't necessarily see a ridge

1454
01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:29,200
Speaker 1: really well and just a plain aerial map, but if

1455
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:31,519
Speaker 1: you have one that shows terrain relief or that has

1456
01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:34,400
Speaker 1: topographic lines, you'll be able to see you know, correct

1457
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:36,440
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, but right, we're gonna see consistent

1458
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:39,880
Speaker 1: parallel lines that are getting that are you know, at

1459
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 1: least tighter together than they are at the top or bottom. Right,

1460
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:46,000
Speaker 1: And then um, the point would obviously be where two

1461
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:48,200
Speaker 1: of those come together to form what looks like, you know,

1462
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:52,880
Speaker 1: like you mentioned a finger coming off of your knuckles, right, yeah, yeah, exactly.

1463
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:55,479
Speaker 1: I mean even now to just you know, parallel lines

1464
01:17:55,560 --> 01:18:00,559
Speaker 1: going along the same route. Perfect. So so you mentioned draws,

1465
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:02,639
Speaker 1: Talk to me about draws. What's that going to look

1466
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:06,000
Speaker 1: like on a map? And then how about in the field,

1467
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:09,960
Speaker 1: what's it looked like Howard Deer using those? Okay, yeah,

1468
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 1: So if you're looking at a traditional top on that

1469
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:19,519
Speaker 1: the draw, the draw is going to look. Um, how

1470
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:22,200
Speaker 1: do I describe this is basically I almost look at

1471
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:25,120
Speaker 1: it as like the beak of a bird cutting into

1472
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:28,519
Speaker 1: or pointing towards a ridge. And and really what that

1473
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 1: means is what's happening on the ground is that um

1474
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 1: water runoff is going through time your road. It's going

1475
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:40,160
Speaker 1: to find that lowest area, it's going to continue to

1476
01:18:40,200 --> 01:18:43,879
Speaker 1: your road, continue to your road and basically make small

1477
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:48,519
Speaker 1: valleys that come right off of that ridge and cut

1478
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:52,040
Speaker 1: down over the hill, and they can get pretty drastic. Um,

1479
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:55,639
Speaker 1: they can get pretty deep. So the draw is really

1480
01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:59,439
Speaker 1: that whole you know. Um, let's say you're you're you're

1481
01:18:59,439 --> 01:19:01,680
Speaker 1: at the very bottom and you're at a at a

1482
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:03,840
Speaker 1: creek bottom and you're looking uphill and you see this

1483
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:06,759
Speaker 1: cut that's it's really definitive, and it's like somebody almost

1484
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 1: took up on a knife and and cut right through

1485
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:12,080
Speaker 1: the middle of the hillside right up towards the ridge.

1486
01:19:12,360 --> 01:19:16,680
Speaker 1: That's gonna be your draw. And that draw is um.

1487
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:19,519
Speaker 1: It can be gradual or it can be steep. But

1488
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 1: one thing you'll find consistently is at the very top,

1489
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:27,320
Speaker 1: right at the head of that draw is going to

1490
01:19:27,439 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 1: be probably some pretty good deer sign um. As as

1491
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 1: that water is running off the side of the hill,

1492
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:39,959
Speaker 1: it's created this this ravine um. It's deeper and deeper

1493
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:44,559
Speaker 1: and more aggressive. And those deer, if they're in a

1494
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:47,439
Speaker 1: in a rush for they're they're escaping, they're gonna jump

1495
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:50,599
Speaker 1: right over potentially, but as they're just you know, having

1496
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:54,800
Speaker 1: their normal pattern, they're not just gonna cross over something

1497
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 1: really steep. They're gonna work their way kind of up

1498
01:19:57,439 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 1: the hill up towards the top where the can get

1499
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 1: around the head of that of that draw. So it's

1500
01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:07,000
Speaker 1: a dynamite stand location. Another good one for for wind

1501
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:10,519
Speaker 1: you can have it depending on a lot of times

1502
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:13,720
Speaker 1: you'll see this where the draw will come up and

1503
01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:18,200
Speaker 1: meet the very top is a field up on top um.

1504
01:20:18,240 --> 01:20:20,160
Speaker 1: They kind of go hand in hand with ditches, which

1505
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:22,680
Speaker 1: we can get into, but it all has to do

1506
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:26,960
Speaker 1: with water runoff. And there's small valleys that go down

1507
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 1: over the hill and deer will use the sides of

1508
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:32,080
Speaker 1: them and work their way up and down, and then

1509
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:35,559
Speaker 1: they'll cross at the very top or maybe somewhere where

1510
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:39,400
Speaker 1: at the bottom um of of of the draw where

1511
01:20:39,400 --> 01:20:41,439
Speaker 1: it gets a little more gradual at the bottom too.

1512
01:20:41,479 --> 01:20:45,040
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like that that hardened place where

1513
01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 1: it's tougher to get from one side to the next.

1514
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:50,360
Speaker 1: They'd rather just instead of making the jump, go and

1515
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:52,720
Speaker 1: work their way at the top and work around. And

1516
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:55,240
Speaker 1: it's kind of you can almost use this in conjunction

1517
01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:58,040
Speaker 1: with ridges. It's it's like a funnel within a funnel

1518
01:20:58,080 --> 01:21:01,200
Speaker 1: of sorts. You know. Let's say hypothetically, during the rut,

1519
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:03,679
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a lot of bucks cruising that ridge.

1520
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:06,160
Speaker 1: So we've already said, okay, lots of times the ridge

1521
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:08,639
Speaker 1: line will will funnel deer along the top third because

1522
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:11,519
Speaker 1: of all these reasons. Well, in addition to that, if

1523
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:13,759
Speaker 1: there's one of these draws that comes up the ridge

1524
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:16,400
Speaker 1: that's going to force dear to to move along that

1525
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:18,840
Speaker 1: ridge up at the very top of it. Now, all

1526
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:20,800
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you know, Okay, it's likely deer gonna

1527
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:22,920
Speaker 1: be on this ridge, and now it's even more likely

1528
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:24,680
Speaker 1: that if they're on the ridge, they're gonna have to

1529
01:21:24,720 --> 01:21:28,679
Speaker 1: go through this even narrower section. Um. So, I think

1530
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:30,519
Speaker 1: that's a perfect example of how you can look at

1531
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:34,520
Speaker 1: a map before even ever being on a property and see, okay,

1532
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:37,320
Speaker 1: here's a ridge, here's the draw on the ridge. I'm

1533
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:40,720
Speaker 1: betting this point right here is an exceptional spot to

1534
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:43,320
Speaker 1: start my scouting to potentially hunt during certain parts of

1535
01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:48,040
Speaker 1: the year, right, yeah, yeah, for sure, absolutely. And and

1536
01:21:48,040 --> 01:21:50,719
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, that's essentially the same with with ditches,

1537
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:53,160
Speaker 1: kind of the same thing, right We're talking about water

1538
01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:56,800
Speaker 1: coming off the top and creating a cut. Yeah yeah,

1539
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:58,719
Speaker 1: so the ditches is really going to be a similar

1540
01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:03,559
Speaker 1: conceptum but instead of a big hardwood ridge with draws

1541
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:08,320
Speaker 1: draws in spurs coming off the side. Um, let's take

1542
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 1: a flat, relatively flat piece of agriculture that's being farmed. Well,

1543
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:16,760
Speaker 1: that water is going to run off one way or

1544
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 1: another off of that field. And it's going to find

1545
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:22,640
Speaker 1: the lowest it's going to find that lowest elevation and

1546
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:27,839
Speaker 1: run in the road. You're gonna find ditches. So sometimes

1547
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:29,800
Speaker 1: you can find these things without the top of the map.

1548
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:31,720
Speaker 1: You just look at an area and if you look,

1549
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:36,000
Speaker 1: if you can see all these fingers of timber jutting

1550
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 1: into the field, that's probably where you're going to find

1551
01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:44,799
Speaker 1: a ditch because it's gonna be where water has naturally

1552
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:47,320
Speaker 1: run off. You can't farm there because it's too it's

1553
01:22:47,320 --> 01:22:48,920
Speaker 1: too steep with the slope, and they're not they're not

1554
01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:50,639
Speaker 1: gonna farm where there's gonna be a bunch of water.

1555
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:56,040
Speaker 1: So by nature that area grows up with brush and

1556
01:22:56,600 --> 01:22:59,320
Speaker 1: timber and water is gonna come right off that field

1557
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:01,760
Speaker 1: and cut it down into that finger a timber. So

1558
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:05,080
Speaker 1: the ditch is really the same concept. These deer aren't

1559
01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:07,479
Speaker 1: just gonna run back and forth, back and forth with

1560
01:23:07,680 --> 01:23:10,880
Speaker 1: the whole They're not gonna run perpendicular to the ditch

1561
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:14,160
Speaker 1: the whole way down. There might be a select crossing

1562
01:23:14,280 --> 01:23:17,000
Speaker 1: or two, but they're really going to scoot around the

1563
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 1: property at the head of that at the head of

1564
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:23,240
Speaker 1: that ditch, and a lot of times you can find.

1565
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 1: It goes back right back into what we're talking about

1566
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:30,080
Speaker 1: with edge. So you've got not only this terrain funnel

1567
01:23:30,400 --> 01:23:33,680
Speaker 1: where it's just easier to get around that finger to

1568
01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:35,719
Speaker 1: timber and head to the next part of the field,

1569
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:37,840
Speaker 1: but you've got edge as well, so you've got that

1570
01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:40,840
Speaker 1: sense of security for a deer that's scooting along. So

1571
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 1: there's efficiency there, there's there's security. Um. You know, it's

1572
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:47,639
Speaker 1: a lot of good things can happen with these ditches.

1573
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:52,080
Speaker 1: So sometimes you can find and this would transition right

1574
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:54,960
Speaker 1: into that the next terrain feature we could talk about

1575
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:58,320
Speaker 1: as the creek crossings. Um. The ditch is really going

1576
01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:02,439
Speaker 1: to define where deer are going to travel the majority

1577
01:24:02,439 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 1: of time. UM. And you can almost go and ground

1578
01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 1: truth these dishes and find crossings occasionally um throughout where

1579
01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:17,960
Speaker 1: maybe it's a little gradual where you know the bank

1580
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:21,080
Speaker 1: may not be is eroded away. As another part, so

1581
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:24,679
Speaker 1: UM the quick quick story that real quick about draws

1582
01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:29,160
Speaker 1: before we totally get off of them. This past fall,

1583
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:33,120
Speaker 1: um the pork buck. So I ran intohim in October

1584
01:24:33,120 --> 01:24:36,200
Speaker 1: and I encountered this deer a bunch. I had an

1585
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:38,960
Speaker 1: idea that he was living off of this one spur

1586
01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:42,479
Speaker 1: i'lcohol it, which is basically like a secondary ridge. You

1587
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:44,720
Speaker 1: got the main, the main top, and then you've got

1588
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:47,640
Speaker 1: all these ridges extending off from the top, and in

1589
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:52,000
Speaker 1: between those spurs or secondary ridges are the draws. Well,

1590
01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:54,160
Speaker 1: I had an ideas he's on this one where is

1591
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:58,160
Speaker 1: he's bed in there, and I set up on the

1592
01:24:58,200 --> 01:25:02,360
Speaker 1: next spur over and we're separated by a draw and um,

1593
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:05,720
Speaker 1: you know, I literally was in about a half hour

1594
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:10,160
Speaker 1: um of of of daybreak. Sure enough I could see

1595
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 1: him with the dough, but not totally with her. You know,

1596
01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 1: he was he was, he was, he was checking her out,

1597
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:19,599
Speaker 1: but he wasn't actually tending her. So I grounded at him,

1598
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 1: and I mean, you know we're talking November eighth or nine.

1599
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:28,960
Speaker 1: I mean he is in you know, total dominance mode.

1600
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:31,400
Speaker 1: You know. I grunted at him, and he just came,

1601
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:34,280
Speaker 1: uh and he threw set up, looked right over at me,

1602
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:37,920
Speaker 1: and he just made a bee line straight for me,

1603
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:41,320
Speaker 1: not using the head of the draw that we're talking about.

1604
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:43,800
Speaker 1: I mean, he went right down over the hillside like

1605
01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:47,040
Speaker 1: it was a cliffhanger. And by by the time he disappeared,

1606
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:49,639
Speaker 1: I grabbed my bow and I'm swinging around. I could

1607
01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:53,360
Speaker 1: already see his times coming back up. So um afterwards,

1608
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:56,920
Speaker 1: you know, after the postseason, I went and scouted that area. Man,

1609
01:25:56,960 --> 01:25:58,800
Speaker 1: I can't believe he went through there, and you know

1610
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:01,960
Speaker 1: he was able to jump over the ravine of the

1611
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:04,920
Speaker 1: of the draw. But it just goes to show, I mean,

1612
01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:07,320
Speaker 1: when these deer want to get from one place to

1613
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:12,760
Speaker 1: the next, there fully capable of doing that in the

1614
01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:15,320
Speaker 1: fastest way possible. You know. So it's not always a

1615
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:18,080
Speaker 1: guarantee with with what we're talking about here, but it's

1616
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:21,280
Speaker 1: just it's kind of an interesting thing. So yeah, so

1617
01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:23,720
Speaker 1: so I'm wondering what happened he turned around with the bow,

1618
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:27,680
Speaker 1: his his time showed up. What happened? Yeah, so, uh,

1619
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:30,759
Speaker 1: the way I was hunting, it was, it was kind

1620
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:35,080
Speaker 1: of a good wind, but it was it was where

1621
01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:38,880
Speaker 1: where he came. He uh, he taught my wind. It was.

1622
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:40,680
Speaker 1: It was a setup that would have worked for a

1623
01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:46,080
Speaker 1: lot of scenarios other than this one. And he basically,

1624
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:47,639
Speaker 1: I mean I was a full draw and he needed

1625
01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:51,280
Speaker 1: about three more steps into to hit my lane and

1626
01:26:51,680 --> 01:26:54,439
Speaker 1: he slammed on the brakes and he knew something wasn't right.

1627
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 1: So you know, I I a lot of times early season,

1628
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:01,479
Speaker 1: I'm hunting those winds where I'm not I'm fully confident

1629
01:27:01,479 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get busted. But come game time, during

1630
01:27:04,240 --> 01:27:07,800
Speaker 1: the run, you know you're sitting you know, full days. Um,

1631
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:09,760
Speaker 1: obviously you can make his a justice in the morning

1632
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:11,840
Speaker 1: or evening, but you know, sometimes I'll get a little

1633
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:15,360
Speaker 1: more aggressive, Um, you know what he's dealing with these winds,

1634
01:27:15,439 --> 01:27:18,280
Speaker 1: and try to hunt a buck on a wind that's

1635
01:27:18,920 --> 01:27:23,000
Speaker 1: almost you know, almost perfect for him, but not completely

1636
01:27:23,400 --> 01:27:26,840
Speaker 1: and almost completely horrible for me. But but not still

1637
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:30,400
Speaker 1: you know, you know, totally almost totally in his favor,

1638
01:27:30,479 --> 01:27:32,400
Speaker 1: but a little bit in my favorite as well. Just

1639
01:27:32,400 --> 01:27:34,680
Speaker 1: so happened he bust me on this on this circumstance.

1640
01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:36,559
Speaker 1: But I end up seeing them here or four more

1641
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:39,120
Speaker 1: times after that, and I didn't spook them off the

1642
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:41,880
Speaker 1: whole north face of what I where I was hunting them.

1643
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:45,960
Speaker 1: But it's just, you know, interesting to see how these

1644
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:49,400
Speaker 1: terrain features can can drive these nearing Other times, man,

1645
01:27:49,439 --> 01:27:51,519
Speaker 1: they just go where they want to go. Yeah, that's

1646
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:53,439
Speaker 1: that's the truth. I think what you said was a

1647
01:27:53,479 --> 01:27:56,040
Speaker 1: really good point was that these things aren't rules. They're

1648
01:27:56,080 --> 01:27:58,880
Speaker 1: they're not these are similar. These are simply your patterns

1649
01:27:59,080 --> 01:28:02,519
Speaker 1: of of sometimes consistent use. But they're they're still wild

1650
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:06,400
Speaker 1: animals and they can do crazy things. So that's it. Yeah,

1651
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:09,400
Speaker 1: so you mentioned creek crossings. What uh, hey, I guess

1652
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:12,680
Speaker 1: my first question about creek crossings is can you can

1653
01:28:12,760 --> 01:28:15,960
Speaker 1: you see creek crossings or where certain features of a

1654
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:18,320
Speaker 1: creek will funnel deer from a map or is that

1655
01:28:18,360 --> 01:28:21,759
Speaker 1: something you have to ground truth? No, you can definitely

1656
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:23,960
Speaker 1: see it from the map. UM. I learned this from

1657
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:28,280
Speaker 1: Bill Winky. Uh. He's put this out in multiple publications

1658
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:30,160
Speaker 1: and I actually talked to him in person about this,

1659
01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:32,599
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like when it comes to no

1660
01:28:33,040 --> 01:28:38,200
Speaker 1: brainer guaranteed features that they're going to use, it's creek crossings.

1661
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:40,920
Speaker 1: You can see this with UM. You used to be

1662
01:28:41,000 --> 01:28:43,280
Speaker 1: with the topo map, and you can see with an aerial.

1663
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:45,799
Speaker 1: You can see it with boats, and whenever the topos

1664
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:48,800
Speaker 1: combined with the aerial, it just jumps out at you,

1665
01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:54,880
Speaker 1: you know, um completely. But as a stream is winding,

1666
01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:59,520
Speaker 1: is streamless is going along its its own path, um,

1667
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:02,439
Speaker 1: And it may these turns and twists and these these

1668
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:06,280
Speaker 1: s curves let's just call them S curves. Every time

1669
01:29:06,360 --> 01:29:11,160
Speaker 1: that that stream makes a drastic curve. You've got to

1670
01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:16,120
Speaker 1: think that water is just by the forces and laws

1671
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:22,160
Speaker 1: of physics, washing away, continually washing away that side where

1672
01:29:22,160 --> 01:29:24,679
Speaker 1: it makes that turn. So it's gonna be flowing down

1673
01:29:24,720 --> 01:29:27,960
Speaker 1: with momentum hit as it turns, it's gonna hit that

1674
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:29,840
Speaker 1: bank and it's gonna cut the side of that bank,

1675
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:33,479
Speaker 1: and then it's gonna work its way down again, you know,

1676
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:35,360
Speaker 1: down down the rest of the stream. But where you

1677
01:29:35,439 --> 01:29:37,920
Speaker 1: see those big curves is where you're going to see

1678
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:43,679
Speaker 1: your most drastic edges of the creek bank. And then

1679
01:29:44,080 --> 01:29:49,080
Speaker 1: in between those curves where the stream gets straight again,

1680
01:29:49,439 --> 01:29:56,720
Speaker 1: you're gonna find your your shallowest, most gradual uh stream

1681
01:29:56,800 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 1: bed edges, which means that those deer are gonna be

1682
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:04,479
Speaker 1: crossing there. So the more you have and this is

1683
01:30:04,520 --> 01:30:07,839
Speaker 1: all from Bill I, you know, I'm translating this from

1684
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:10,680
Speaker 1: from from Mr Winky here, but it's pretty slick. If

1685
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:12,519
Speaker 1: you look at a map, look at the map, it's

1686
01:30:12,520 --> 01:30:14,679
Speaker 1: got a stream in it, and it's got a bunch

1687
01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:18,400
Speaker 1: of s curbs that's just gonna enhance in in dramatic

1688
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:21,799
Speaker 1: size more creek crossings. So you go and you find

1689
01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:24,640
Speaker 1: maybe a couple of places where there's a nice S

1690
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:27,000
Speaker 1: S curve and you're in between two curves and you

1691
01:30:27,080 --> 01:30:30,720
Speaker 1: find a straightaway go ground truth that area, and you're

1692
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:34,880
Speaker 1: probably going to see a creek bank that's is more

1693
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:38,799
Speaker 1: gradual and probably a pretty good deer bear trail there. Now,

1694
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:41,639
Speaker 1: on the other hand, if you've got a stream that's

1695
01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:44,880
Speaker 1: just going straight as an arrow working its way through

1696
01:30:45,479 --> 01:30:48,240
Speaker 1: the timber or field or whatnot, it's not gonna be

1697
01:30:48,520 --> 01:30:53,439
Speaker 1: as um, it's not gonna be a is drastic um

1698
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:57,280
Speaker 1: of a concentration of of creek crossings because those deer

1699
01:30:57,320 --> 01:31:00,200
Speaker 1: can you know, hop along at that bank. Problem is

1700
01:31:00,240 --> 01:31:03,720
Speaker 1: not changing it's it's it's face much at all. So

1701
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:06,960
Speaker 1: you know, it kind of depends on the lay of

1702
01:31:07,000 --> 01:31:09,000
Speaker 1: the land. But like in pasture, a lot of pasture

1703
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:11,040
Speaker 1: ground in the Midwest, and these streams just seemed to

1704
01:31:11,080 --> 01:31:14,160
Speaker 1: wind and make every twist and turn, and they can

1705
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:16,960
Speaker 1: really show you some some great places to potentially set

1706
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:19,120
Speaker 1: up as a as a creek crossing where deer is

1707
01:31:19,120 --> 01:31:21,719
Speaker 1: just getting from one place to the next, gonna falling

1708
01:31:21,800 --> 01:31:24,320
Speaker 1: right through there, and you're gonna get a crack out. Yeah,

1709
01:31:24,520 --> 01:31:26,599
Speaker 1: And I guess that I guess to all of these

1710
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:29,639
Speaker 1: different types of features, right, We've we've talked about all

1711
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:34,000
Speaker 1: these different land features that in some way will influence

1712
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:37,400
Speaker 1: deer to travel a certain through a certain area. Um.

1713
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:39,800
Speaker 1: And so they're all, in some way or another, are

1714
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:42,320
Speaker 1: kind of like funnels because because they're influencing deer in

1715
01:31:42,360 --> 01:31:45,760
Speaker 1: some way. UM. We've talked a lot about how these

1716
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:48,360
Speaker 1: can be hunted during the rut, right, because that's just

1717
01:31:48,439 --> 01:31:50,720
Speaker 1: a kind of usual way of hunting the rut is

1718
01:31:50,760 --> 01:31:52,559
Speaker 1: get into a funnel where deer are going to travel

1719
01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 1: through a lot, and you're gonna have a good chance.

1720
01:31:54,479 --> 01:31:56,240
Speaker 1: But I think it's worth noting for all these things,

1721
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:59,080
Speaker 1: especially something that creek crossing. You know, funnels can be

1722
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:02,120
Speaker 1: hunted or all these features can be hunted effectively at

1723
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:04,200
Speaker 1: other times of the year too. It's just that you

1724
01:32:04,240 --> 01:32:07,040
Speaker 1: want to be between the two main goals of a

1725
01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:09,160
Speaker 1: deer's life, which is betting and feeding. So if you

1726
01:32:09,160 --> 01:32:11,559
Speaker 1: can find a creek crossing between where they want to

1727
01:32:11,560 --> 01:32:13,519
Speaker 1: eat and where they're betted, well now you've got the

1728
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:16,000
Speaker 1: funnel between betting and feeding, which is their most likely

1729
01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:18,679
Speaker 1: route of travel. So I think that can be applied

1730
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:21,519
Speaker 1: early season, it can be applied late season. It can

1731
01:32:21,560 --> 01:32:24,000
Speaker 1: be applied during the rut. It just depends on where

1732
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:26,639
Speaker 1: do you where does this feature lie between, and then

1733
01:32:26,800 --> 01:32:29,800
Speaker 1: that's what's going to determine whether you hunt it. You know,

1734
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:35,360
Speaker 1: October one or November one? Right? Does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah, absolutely,

1735
01:32:35,400 --> 01:32:37,720
Speaker 1: I mean the goal is to get the goal is

1736
01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:42,400
Speaker 1: to have some sense of understanding of whether you are betting,

1737
01:32:42,840 --> 01:32:45,160
Speaker 1: and then where they're feeding, and how can you get

1738
01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:48,360
Speaker 1: in between or at their destination one way or another,

1739
01:32:48,360 --> 01:32:51,360
Speaker 1: whether it's afternoon or morning, how you can get there

1740
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:54,640
Speaker 1: before they do. And and if you know, if you

1741
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:56,479
Speaker 1: don't end up seeing the dearly one, how do you

1742
01:32:56,560 --> 01:32:59,080
Speaker 1: get out of there without without spooking them to blow

1743
01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:03,200
Speaker 1: them out? So entry and exit is just as important

1744
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:07,559
Speaker 1: here as where we're hunting. In fact, you know, um

1745
01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:09,400
Speaker 1: a lot of people say, and I think this is

1746
01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:12,639
Speaker 1: the fact that it's more important than where you're hunting,

1747
01:33:13,720 --> 01:33:17,400
Speaker 1: making sure that you're getting in and you're getting out undetected,

1748
01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:19,840
Speaker 1: so that you're not educating the deer herd. Because you

1749
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:23,640
Speaker 1: can have all of these amazing pitch points, tunnels and

1750
01:33:23,880 --> 01:33:26,040
Speaker 1: in all these great terrain features that you can hunt

1751
01:33:26,040 --> 01:33:28,599
Speaker 1: and you're excited about. But if you're educating the deer

1752
01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:30,960
Speaker 1: that are living there that would be using those funnels

1753
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:33,320
Speaker 1: that they didn't know you were there. Then you know

1754
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:37,240
Speaker 1: you're you're wasting your time. So getting in getting out

1755
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:42,519
Speaker 1: it's huge. Um. And these features play their own roles

1756
01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:46,400
Speaker 1: throughout all of hunting season, whether it's September early season,

1757
01:33:46,479 --> 01:33:50,120
Speaker 1: all the way into January late season. Yeah, so true.

1758
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:52,280
Speaker 1: And it's it's one of those things we talked about

1759
01:33:52,280 --> 01:33:55,240
Speaker 1: a ton, right almost every podcast or every other podcast,

1760
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:58,879
Speaker 1: we mentioned access and entry and exit so many times.

1761
01:33:59,240 --> 01:34:01,479
Speaker 1: But it's one of those things that and I'm guilty

1762
01:34:01,520 --> 01:34:04,120
Speaker 1: of this as anyone, is that it's easier said than

1763
01:34:04,160 --> 01:34:06,639
Speaker 1: done in a lot of cases. I mean, there's there's

1764
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:08,599
Speaker 1: so many times where I know I need to enter

1765
01:34:08,760 --> 01:34:11,559
Speaker 1: or extras a certain way, but I'm rushed on time,

1766
01:34:11,840 --> 01:34:14,000
Speaker 1: or I don't want to go through the briars this time,

1767
01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:15,960
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. It's it's easy to get lazy

1768
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:18,160
Speaker 1: with it. But I think that's why it's important that

1769
01:34:18,200 --> 01:34:20,839
Speaker 1: we always mentioned it because I need to remind myself

1770
01:34:20,920 --> 01:34:23,639
Speaker 1: sometimes that, hey, you have to sometimes go the extra

1771
01:34:23,680 --> 01:34:26,599
Speaker 1: mile or whatever it is, because if you don't, yeah,

1772
01:34:26,640 --> 01:34:28,320
Speaker 1: it might make it a little more convenient for you,

1773
01:34:28,360 --> 01:34:32,240
Speaker 1: but you just blew your hunt. So yeah, yeah, for sure.

1774
01:34:32,280 --> 01:34:37,479
Speaker 1: I mean the access is always I mean it is

1775
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:39,599
Speaker 1: easy to kind of get in that I've been guilty

1776
01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:41,400
Speaker 1: of getting in the same thing where you know, you

1777
01:34:41,680 --> 01:34:43,400
Speaker 1: kind of have an idea of Okay, the deer betting

1778
01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:45,559
Speaker 1: there that they're feeding here, I've got to leave this way.

1779
01:34:45,640 --> 01:34:48,639
Speaker 1: But if you continue to pound that area in and out,

1780
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:50,240
Speaker 1: in and out, in and out, eventually they're going to

1781
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:53,880
Speaker 1: figure they're gonna they're gonna catch your trail. So um,

1782
01:34:53,920 --> 01:34:56,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a constant battle to to kind

1783
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:59,559
Speaker 1: of be one step ahead of them, which is it's

1784
01:34:59,600 --> 01:35:02,599
Speaker 1: hard to do. Um. I remember talking to Jeff Starts

1785
01:35:02,680 --> 01:35:05,080
Speaker 1: one time, you know, when you mentioned it, especially on

1786
01:35:05,200 --> 01:35:07,839
Speaker 1: public ground, he would go in and he would literally

1787
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:10,320
Speaker 1: have a different Even if he's hunding the same stand,

1788
01:35:10,520 --> 01:35:13,960
Speaker 1: he's got four consistent wins, four winnings in a row,

1789
01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:16,680
Speaker 1: he's going to access that stand four different ways to

1790
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:19,720
Speaker 1: number one, prevent from educating the deer. With number two,

1791
01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:23,120
Speaker 1: to prevent from educating hunters. So guys that are sharing property,

1792
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:26,679
Speaker 1: you know, if you can scatter yourself, um, how you're

1793
01:35:26,800 --> 01:35:30,639
Speaker 1: entering and exiting at stand location. It's gonna it's gonna

1794
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:32,880
Speaker 1: be good for you. That's a great point. Yeah, I

1795
01:35:32,960 --> 01:35:35,320
Speaker 1: like that, And I think to the whole point of

1796
01:35:35,320 --> 01:35:38,440
Speaker 1: our conversation is you can make some of these decisions

1797
01:35:38,520 --> 01:35:40,519
Speaker 1: on how you enter an exit again by looking at

1798
01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:43,200
Speaker 1: these things on a map, thinking about it on almost

1799
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:46,200
Speaker 1: a macro perspective to a degree, you know, thinking about, Okay,

1800
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:49,000
Speaker 1: how does my property fit into the larger scheme of things.

1801
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:50,840
Speaker 1: How do i need to get in and out to

1802
01:35:50,920 --> 01:35:52,920
Speaker 1: make sure I'm not spooking these deer that maybe aren't

1803
01:35:52,920 --> 01:35:54,960
Speaker 1: on my property but but could be influenced by my

1804
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:58,280
Speaker 1: movements and all that. So, um, it's it's something that

1805
01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:02,400
Speaker 1: can't be understated. Now we've we've covered all sorts of

1806
01:36:02,400 --> 01:36:06,000
Speaker 1: different types of funnels, benches and saddles and ditches and

1807
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:09,760
Speaker 1: ridges and points and creek crossings, and how all these

1808
01:36:09,800 --> 01:36:12,560
Speaker 1: different things can look like can how they look on

1809
01:36:12,600 --> 01:36:14,599
Speaker 1: a map, how do identify them on the ground, how

1810
01:36:14,640 --> 01:36:17,680
Speaker 1: dear use them? Um, there's one other one that came

1811
01:36:17,720 --> 01:36:21,080
Speaker 1: to mind for me that I was reminded of by

1812
01:36:21,240 --> 01:36:23,400
Speaker 1: something you posted on Facebook. You posted a map and

1813
01:36:23,520 --> 01:36:26,800
Speaker 1: image of essentially a low spot and field. Swell, you

1814
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:28,800
Speaker 1: posted a picture of a swell and how dear use that.

1815
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:30,320
Speaker 1: Can you talk about that a little bit? How you

1816
01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:35,320
Speaker 1: can see that in a map? Why that's important? Yeah? Absolutely,

1817
01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:39,360
Speaker 1: Um that post received some pretty awesome feedback and it's

1818
01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:42,160
Speaker 1: and it's a it looks pretty basic on the map,

1819
01:36:42,200 --> 01:36:45,400
Speaker 1: but basically all you're looking for is a low spot

1820
01:36:45,479 --> 01:36:48,320
Speaker 1: in the field. UM. I call them, I just always

1821
01:36:48,360 --> 01:36:51,200
Speaker 1: call them field creases, but they're they're also known as

1822
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:56,080
Speaker 1: swales or um I think some people call them field saddles.

1823
01:36:56,120 --> 01:36:58,200
Speaker 1: And that's really what it is. It's it's a low

1824
01:36:58,280 --> 01:37:00,759
Speaker 1: spot in between two higher play is in the field.

1825
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:04,799
Speaker 1: And a lot of times that that um in that crease,

1826
01:37:04,920 --> 01:37:09,080
Speaker 1: it'll it'll connect at the at the side of each

1827
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:12,960
Speaker 1: At each side of that low spot will be a

1828
01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:16,200
Speaker 1: finger of timber that probably has a ditch or a

1829
01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:20,000
Speaker 1: draw coming from it. UM that is pointing towards another

1830
01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:23,400
Speaker 1: low spot, which is going to be the head of

1831
01:37:23,520 --> 01:37:29,200
Speaker 1: the opposite ditch or finger or draw. And bucks I've

1832
01:37:29,240 --> 01:37:32,880
Speaker 1: seen them multiple times used to come right out to

1833
01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:34,680
Speaker 1: the field and it's like, you know, if you're in

1834
01:37:34,720 --> 01:37:36,960
Speaker 1: a tree stand, you know you're like, man, that that

1835
01:37:36,960 --> 01:37:38,920
Speaker 1: thing has a lot of confidence just scooting right through

1836
01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:40,519
Speaker 1: that the middle of that field in the middle of

1837
01:37:40,520 --> 01:37:45,200
Speaker 1: the day. But the fact is, um, he's preventing himself

1838
01:37:45,240 --> 01:37:49,240
Speaker 1: from being silhouetted. And a lot of times he'll be

1839
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:52,960
Speaker 1: coming out from one he's worked one one area timber

1840
01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:55,680
Speaker 1: sent checking for deer or sent checking for those and

1841
01:37:55,720 --> 01:37:59,400
Speaker 1: then he'll use that that swale that low spots, scoot

1842
01:37:59,439 --> 01:38:01,439
Speaker 1: through and just top right over the other side of

1843
01:38:01,439 --> 01:38:03,720
Speaker 1: that field and check the edge and dive into the

1844
01:38:03,720 --> 01:38:05,760
Speaker 1: timber on the other side. So you've got two dynamite

1845
01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:09,360
Speaker 1: spots probably for different wind directions that you can you

1846
01:38:09,400 --> 01:38:11,400
Speaker 1: can hunt right there. It's a it's a it's a

1847
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:14,080
Speaker 1: great spot. Not necessarily just for the right I mean,

1848
01:38:14,160 --> 01:38:16,040
Speaker 1: all of these, all these features can be hot for

1849
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:20,000
Speaker 1: the rud for the most part. But um, you know,

1850
01:38:20,360 --> 01:38:25,679
Speaker 1: if if if deer feel safe and it's easy, they're

1851
01:38:25,680 --> 01:38:28,280
Speaker 1: probably going to use that, and that's that's a good

1852
01:38:28,280 --> 01:38:31,040
Speaker 1: one for sure. I don't know, I don't know what

1853
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:33,479
Speaker 1: you've seen, but um, I have seen this type of

1854
01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:37,400
Speaker 1: feature be particularly deadly in the case where that field

1855
01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:40,240
Speaker 1: is relatively narrow, So like in a lot of places

1856
01:38:40,240 --> 01:38:42,800
Speaker 1: where you have these fields that run along the top

1857
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:45,080
Speaker 1: of high ground right, Like we mentioned, you'll you'll have

1858
01:38:45,120 --> 01:38:47,280
Speaker 1: the ditches or the ridge or the draws down low

1859
01:38:47,320 --> 01:38:49,559
Speaker 1: and that's all timbers. So like for example in Iowa

1860
01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:51,280
Speaker 1: where I where I was hunting in Iowa this year,

1861
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:54,559
Speaker 1: all the fields are up high, all the timbers down

1862
01:38:54,560 --> 01:38:57,360
Speaker 1: low in these cuts and the valleys and stuff. But

1863
01:38:57,600 --> 01:38:59,760
Speaker 1: because of that, it makes these like fingers almost like

1864
01:38:59,760 --> 01:39:02,080
Speaker 1: an end. You've got a hand stretched out and each

1865
01:39:02,120 --> 01:39:04,479
Speaker 1: one of the fingers extending out is a finger of

1866
01:39:04,560 --> 01:39:07,800
Speaker 1: that field. So in those circumstances where the field is

1867
01:39:07,800 --> 01:39:10,840
Speaker 1: like a narrow finger extending out, those are the spots

1868
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:12,760
Speaker 1: I've just found. That. Man, when you find the low

1869
01:39:12,840 --> 01:39:15,320
Speaker 1: spot in that field, there's a ton of travel across

1870
01:39:15,360 --> 01:39:19,360
Speaker 1: the there. Um. Oh yeah, that's just a really good

1871
01:39:19,360 --> 01:39:21,160
Speaker 1: But if if you're going to hunt a field edge

1872
01:39:21,160 --> 01:39:25,080
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, um, definitely, I think that's where're gonna

1873
01:39:25,080 --> 01:39:26,960
Speaker 1: see a lot of the entrying exit of the field

1874
01:39:27,080 --> 01:39:31,000
Speaker 1: come into play. Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. I've even

1875
01:39:31,040 --> 01:39:34,160
Speaker 1: had situations like turkey hunting, when we're moving from one

1876
01:39:34,200 --> 01:39:38,240
Speaker 1: spot to the next and and you can't, um, it's

1877
01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:41,360
Speaker 1: not always evident until you're walking along that field where

1878
01:39:41,680 --> 01:39:45,200
Speaker 1: the a lot of that agricultural fields will have a

1879
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:49,519
Speaker 1: role to them. And just it doesn't take much, you know,

1880
01:39:49,680 --> 01:39:53,200
Speaker 1: even if you're six ft five, you know, to which not.

1881
01:39:53,439 --> 01:39:57,320
Speaker 1: But regardless of you know, it doesn't take much to hide,

1882
01:39:57,720 --> 01:39:59,840
Speaker 1: you know, whenever you're in one of these things. So

1883
01:40:00,240 --> 01:40:04,120
Speaker 1: I remember last year, you know, um, turkey hunting here

1884
01:40:04,160 --> 01:40:08,160
Speaker 1: in Iowa and moving from one spot to next in

1885
01:40:08,479 --> 01:40:10,439
Speaker 1: sure enough. I mean, it doesn't look like there's anything

1886
01:40:10,439 --> 01:40:12,320
Speaker 1: out there. And right in the in one of these

1887
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:14,840
Speaker 1: swells there's there's two big long birds and they saw

1888
01:40:14,920 --> 01:40:16,880
Speaker 1: us coming, you know, a mile away, but I didn't

1889
01:40:16,880 --> 01:40:19,840
Speaker 1: see them. So, um, it's not only deer that are

1890
01:40:19,920 --> 01:40:24,479
Speaker 1: using these these low spots their advantage. It's all wild life.

1891
01:40:24,520 --> 01:40:27,760
Speaker 1: But these are the things you got to look for. Um.

1892
01:40:27,840 --> 01:40:30,040
Speaker 1: And it always goes back to, you know, looking at

1893
01:40:30,080 --> 01:40:33,160
Speaker 1: the map and then ground truth in it. But yeah, yeah,

1894
01:40:33,200 --> 01:40:36,519
Speaker 1: for sure that that specific feature is is a deadly

1895
01:40:36,640 --> 01:40:39,519
Speaker 1: one and one that's not always talk about. And when

1896
01:40:39,520 --> 01:40:41,400
Speaker 1: you're looking for that on a map, let's say, with

1897
01:40:41,600 --> 01:40:44,600
Speaker 1: if you have a map that shows topographic lines, is

1898
01:40:44,640 --> 01:40:46,639
Speaker 1: it is it just going to look like a saddle,

1899
01:40:46,680 --> 01:40:51,880
Speaker 1: but just like a much less exaggerated saddle or different. Yeah, yeah,

1900
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:55,120
Speaker 1: it's gonna it's gonna look like it's gonna look like

1901
01:40:55,160 --> 01:40:58,600
Speaker 1: a saddle in the middle of the field. Um, but

1902
01:40:58,680 --> 01:41:00,880
Speaker 1: even if you don't have top a map, if you

1903
01:41:00,920 --> 01:41:03,760
Speaker 1: can see if you see the edge of timber, kind

1904
01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:06,080
Speaker 1: of peek out to the edge of the field, and

1905
01:41:06,080 --> 01:41:08,320
Speaker 1: then literally if you draw a straight line from that

1906
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:11,240
Speaker 1: to the next side, to the opposite side of the field,

1907
01:41:11,280 --> 01:41:13,920
Speaker 1: if you have timber poking out into the side, they're

1908
01:41:14,320 --> 01:41:16,920
Speaker 1: guaranteed that's a low spot in the field. You've got

1909
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:19,000
Speaker 1: to check it out, so you don't always need top

1910
01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:21,760
Speaker 1: on map to do to see that. It definitely helps though,

1911
01:41:22,120 --> 01:41:25,680
Speaker 1: And that's essentially what is the saddle. You're gonna see. Um,

1912
01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:29,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna see your lines coming closer together as it

1913
01:41:29,200 --> 01:41:31,280
Speaker 1: goes downhill, and then when it hits the bottom of

1914
01:41:31,320 --> 01:41:34,000
Speaker 1: that swale or the crease, it's going to be flat

1915
01:41:34,040 --> 01:41:36,160
Speaker 1: for a minute, and then it's going to the upper

1916
01:41:36,240 --> 01:41:39,320
Speaker 1: opposite side is going to have your lines tied together again.

1917
01:41:39,479 --> 01:41:43,639
Speaker 1: So um, yeah, yeah, it's a good one. Nice. Yeah.

1918
01:41:43,960 --> 01:41:46,800
Speaker 1: I like you said, it's it's often overlooked but can

1919
01:41:46,840 --> 01:41:50,240
Speaker 1: be a really great place to focus some time. And

1920
01:41:50,280 --> 01:41:52,320
Speaker 1: I think a lot you know, we kind of alluded

1921
01:41:52,320 --> 01:41:54,639
Speaker 1: to it as we've gone along, But it's all about

1922
01:41:54,680 --> 01:41:56,000
Speaker 1: you know, when you're trying to pick a spot to

1923
01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:59,280
Speaker 1: hang a tree stand, you know, it's it can be

1924
01:41:59,320 --> 01:42:01,840
Speaker 1: difficult if you're just saying, Okay, where's the betting area,

1925
01:42:02,280 --> 01:42:03,920
Speaker 1: here's a food plot I'm gonna hunt on there's the

1926
01:42:03,920 --> 01:42:06,320
Speaker 1: food plot, or I think, dear bed in this chunk

1927
01:42:06,320 --> 01:42:08,320
Speaker 1: of timber, I'm just gonna set up a tree stand

1928
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:09,960
Speaker 1: randomly somewhere around here. I think a lot of us

1929
01:42:09,960 --> 01:42:13,679
Speaker 1: start deer hunting like that, and then you slowly realize

1930
01:42:13,720 --> 01:42:16,240
Speaker 1: that you need to look for the thing within the thing.

1931
01:42:16,320 --> 01:42:18,519
Speaker 1: So okay, yeah, I now, I know I want to

1932
01:42:18,520 --> 01:42:21,880
Speaker 1: be near this betting area. But where's the best place

1933
01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:24,920
Speaker 1: to be along this ridge that approaches the betting area?

1934
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:26,880
Speaker 1: Where that's where these types of features come into play.

1935
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:29,280
Speaker 1: When you start realizing, Okay, I know there's a betting

1936
01:42:29,320 --> 01:42:31,360
Speaker 1: area here, so I need to be on the ridge

1937
01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:33,439
Speaker 1: near this betting are. Oh, by the way, there's this

1938
01:42:33,560 --> 01:42:35,080
Speaker 1: draw that comes with the ridge. Now I want to

1939
01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:37,280
Speaker 1: be there. Or I now I see that there's a

1940
01:42:37,280 --> 01:42:39,439
Speaker 1: swell in the field above me that's probably going to

1941
01:42:39,479 --> 01:42:42,200
Speaker 1: pull a lot of the traffic coming up this ridge

1942
01:42:42,240 --> 01:42:44,479
Speaker 1: to probably want to cross here. So it's putting all

1943
01:42:44,479 --> 01:42:48,320
Speaker 1: these pieces together to short to start, like identifying the hotspots,

1944
01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:51,760
Speaker 1: those places where we're travel intersects and where you're gonna

1945
01:42:51,760 --> 01:42:54,519
Speaker 1: have that greatest chance to be within bow range if

1946
01:42:54,520 --> 01:42:57,840
Speaker 1: you're a bow hunter, or gun range too. So it's

1947
01:42:58,400 --> 01:43:00,599
Speaker 1: it's a big old puzzle. I feel like he's looking

1948
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:04,559
Speaker 1: at the map really helps you bring the pieces together. Yeah, yeah,

1949
01:43:04,600 --> 01:43:08,040
Speaker 1: for sure. And it's you know, um, you always get

1950
01:43:08,040 --> 01:43:10,000
Speaker 1: the best sense of direction when you're looking at the map.

1951
01:43:10,040 --> 01:43:12,320
Speaker 1: It's lately telling you which way is north, south, east

1952
01:43:12,400 --> 01:43:16,640
Speaker 1: and west. And um, it's easy to grab his you know. Uh,

1953
01:43:16,760 --> 01:43:19,560
Speaker 1: this happened to me in Kansas two years ago. Um,

1954
01:43:19,760 --> 01:43:23,600
Speaker 1: go in and I saw this dandy dandy buck the

1955
01:43:23,720 --> 01:43:26,080
Speaker 1: middle of the day. I'll never forgive his freeze and

1956
01:43:26,120 --> 01:43:28,920
Speaker 1: freezing cold. Actually highland. The pro was snows that the

1957
01:43:28,960 --> 01:43:31,719
Speaker 1: second week in November I was in Kansas was equally

1958
01:43:31,720 --> 01:43:36,679
Speaker 1: as frigid. Um saw a really nice buck comes stooting

1959
01:43:36,760 --> 01:43:42,400
Speaker 1: through about uh twelve twelve thirty in the afternoon. Totally justified,

1960
01:43:42,439 --> 01:43:45,840
Speaker 1: you know, the painful all day sit But anyways, so

1961
01:43:46,360 --> 01:43:48,240
Speaker 1: grunted at him. He didn't want to have much to

1962
01:43:48,280 --> 01:43:51,160
Speaker 1: do with me, And I just kind of watched him

1963
01:43:51,200 --> 01:43:53,559
Speaker 1: for the for the rest of the time, and he

1964
01:43:53,600 --> 01:43:55,920
Speaker 1: worked his way down and ended up making a scrape

1965
01:43:55,920 --> 01:43:57,840
Speaker 1: in the small wood lot. And I knew the next

1966
01:43:57,920 --> 01:44:00,519
Speaker 1: day I was going to have another north Uh. The

1967
01:44:00,520 --> 01:44:04,240
Speaker 1: wind was going to go from northwest straight north. And

1968
01:44:04,920 --> 01:44:07,680
Speaker 1: I went back and looked at the map and realized, Man,

1969
01:44:07,720 --> 01:44:11,559
Speaker 1: it's gonna be an aggressive set up, but it's long

1970
01:44:11,600 --> 01:44:14,479
Speaker 1: as the wind stays true north, my scent is gonna

1971
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:18,240
Speaker 1: be basically blown straight down towards where he's coming from.

1972
01:44:18,439 --> 01:44:20,800
Speaker 1: But he's gonna be a little bit farther east work

1973
01:44:20,920 --> 01:44:24,760
Speaker 1: because of the the fence line and the pasture. So

1974
01:44:25,080 --> 01:44:27,200
Speaker 1: if you come out hugging the edge of that fence

1975
01:44:27,240 --> 01:44:30,479
Speaker 1: line from the pasture, uh, then I was gonna be okay.

1976
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:33,160
Speaker 1: And I set up for that. And the only way

1977
01:44:32,840 --> 01:44:36,080
Speaker 1: I was able to looking at the map, um, going

1978
01:44:36,120 --> 01:44:38,360
Speaker 1: in there, you get any into the woodlowe, you get

1979
01:44:38,439 --> 01:44:41,759
Speaker 1: an idea of what the sense of direction is. But um, anyways,

1980
01:44:41,760 --> 01:44:44,120
Speaker 1: went in there, hung to stand, got out of there,

1981
01:44:44,160 --> 01:44:47,320
Speaker 1: and then the next morning, you know, it was like

1982
01:44:47,560 --> 01:44:51,479
Speaker 1: the perfect script reading that's ever happened in my hunting career.

1983
01:44:51,760 --> 01:44:54,120
Speaker 1: He came right up that fence line, dropped down in

1984
01:44:54,520 --> 01:44:56,639
Speaker 1: and I shot him at seven yards before I could

1985
01:44:57,000 --> 01:44:59,360
Speaker 1: he could catch my wind. So you want to look

1986
01:44:59,400 --> 01:45:01,799
Speaker 1: for those situaations where if you've got an idea bucks

1987
01:45:01,800 --> 01:45:05,759
Speaker 1: coming from a certain area and you can he thinks

1988
01:45:05,760 --> 01:45:08,679
Speaker 1: he's got a great wind to be safer, an almost

1989
01:45:08,720 --> 01:45:10,680
Speaker 1: great wind to be safe, and you've got to win.

1990
01:45:10,760 --> 01:45:15,160
Speaker 1: That's almost horrible for you. But you know, you know

1991
01:45:15,200 --> 01:45:17,640
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, um, and you can have some you

1992
01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:19,280
Speaker 1: can have some luck there. You don't always want to

1993
01:45:19,280 --> 01:45:23,240
Speaker 1: look for this situation that you have awesome wind for you.

1994
01:45:23,240 --> 01:45:26,760
Speaker 1: You're never going to get busted, um, because sometimes there's

1995
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:28,559
Speaker 1: dear you know, it's good for you and it's not

1996
01:45:28,600 --> 01:45:30,439
Speaker 1: necessarily good for them and to trying to stay alive.

1997
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:32,639
Speaker 1: So you know, it's just a lot of different things

1998
01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:34,320
Speaker 1: you can do when you look at the map and

1999
01:45:34,520 --> 01:45:36,960
Speaker 1: you can tell you a lot. You know, sense of

2000
01:45:37,000 --> 01:45:39,479
Speaker 1: direction there's obviously a really important one whenever you get

2001
01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:43,439
Speaker 1: to win. Report every morning. Yeah, yea, so true. So man,

2002
01:45:43,479 --> 01:45:47,120
Speaker 1: we we've covered we cot a lot here. Um, we're

2003
01:45:47,160 --> 01:45:49,280
Speaker 1: coming up on time here. But is there any other

2004
01:45:49,960 --> 01:45:55,639
Speaker 1: major topic related to you know, using maps to better

2005
01:45:55,720 --> 01:45:59,080
Speaker 1: hunt deer. Is there anything we've missed? Ben or we

2006
01:45:59,200 --> 01:46:00,720
Speaker 1: Do you feel we've covered as best as we could

2007
01:46:00,720 --> 01:46:03,800
Speaker 1: in this time? Man, I think we've covered a lot.

2008
01:46:03,960 --> 01:46:05,880
Speaker 1: We've covered a lot of ground, and and I want

2009
01:46:05,880 --> 01:46:10,120
Speaker 1: to caveat all this everything we talked about by saying

2010
01:46:10,120 --> 01:46:14,439
Speaker 1: that I am by no means a mega expert in

2011
01:46:14,479 --> 01:46:18,280
Speaker 1: the field of white tail strategy and hunting and habitat management,

2012
01:46:18,640 --> 01:46:21,160
Speaker 1: I've just got um, you know, a certain knowledge that

2013
01:46:21,160 --> 01:46:24,519
Speaker 1: I've acquired over the years with with HUNTERA and and

2014
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:27,840
Speaker 1: just by being a sponge was literally around every every

2015
01:46:27,920 --> 01:46:31,120
Speaker 1: hunter the don that I'm around. I try to soak

2016
01:46:31,120 --> 01:46:33,559
Speaker 1: in as much information as possible. So a lot of

2017
01:46:33,560 --> 01:46:36,400
Speaker 1: these tactics I've confirmed over the years from you know,

2018
01:46:36,520 --> 01:46:39,360
Speaker 1: sightings that I've seen and and encounters that I've had.

2019
01:46:39,400 --> 01:46:43,000
Speaker 1: But a lot of it also is just um by default,

2020
01:46:43,040 --> 01:46:45,320
Speaker 1: from clients that I've worked with over the years, or

2021
01:46:45,360 --> 01:46:47,880
Speaker 1: partners that I have that you know, we start talking

2022
01:46:47,920 --> 01:46:50,120
Speaker 1: shop on Hey, you know what's going on in your property?

2023
01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:53,240
Speaker 1: This looks like a good area? Is it? Bouncing ideas

2024
01:46:53,280 --> 01:46:55,240
Speaker 1: off of them? And and that's where you know I

2025
01:46:55,280 --> 01:46:57,240
Speaker 1: was able to get you know, a decent grasp on

2026
01:46:57,720 --> 01:47:00,160
Speaker 1: what's what to look for out of the map, but

2027
01:47:00,560 --> 01:47:04,240
Speaker 1: by no means you know the encyclopedia of of of

2028
01:47:04,320 --> 01:47:07,920
Speaker 1: deer hunting expertise with maps or anything like that. But well, no, man,

2029
01:47:07,920 --> 01:47:09,920
Speaker 1: I appreciate you you have me on the show. You know,

2030
01:47:10,520 --> 01:47:13,320
Speaker 1: definitely this has been great and I think, uh, your

2031
01:47:13,439 --> 01:47:16,000
Speaker 1: your level of expertise is is just right there up

2032
01:47:16,040 --> 01:47:18,479
Speaker 1: there with all the other experts or quote unquote experts

2033
01:47:18,479 --> 01:47:20,080
Speaker 1: of deer hunting, because we're on the same boat, right

2034
01:47:20,080 --> 01:47:23,240
Speaker 1: We're we're just learning from other people, taking whatever advice

2035
01:47:23,280 --> 01:47:25,479
Speaker 1: we can, trying to apply in the field and seeing

2036
01:47:25,479 --> 01:47:28,400
Speaker 1: what works. Um So, so I think you you've done

2037
01:47:28,439 --> 01:47:31,439
Speaker 1: a great job of cataloging a lot of those lessons learned.

2038
01:47:31,479 --> 01:47:33,559
Speaker 1: It's been super helpful here for all of us because

2039
01:47:33,560 --> 01:47:35,720
Speaker 1: I think this is one of those topics that you

2040
01:47:35,760 --> 01:47:38,160
Speaker 1: hear these buzzwords a lot. We talk about a little bit,

2041
01:47:38,200 --> 01:47:41,639
Speaker 1: but we don't necessarily dive deep. Um So, I think

2042
01:47:41,680 --> 01:47:43,760
Speaker 1: that this would be will be very helpful for for

2043
01:47:43,800 --> 01:47:46,800
Speaker 1: everyone listening, and I hope it has been so so Ben,

2044
01:47:46,920 --> 01:47:49,679
Speaker 1: we haven't really got to go into detail about hunter

2045
01:47:49,880 --> 01:47:52,400
Speaker 1: A yet, but you know, can you just for those

2046
01:47:52,439 --> 01:47:54,320
Speaker 1: who aren't familiar, Can you share a little bit more

2047
01:47:54,400 --> 01:47:57,080
Speaker 1: detail about what exactly your company is making. You know,

2048
01:47:57,080 --> 01:47:59,200
Speaker 1: what kind of maps you're making, what's different about theom

2049
01:47:59,560 --> 01:48:04,880
Speaker 1: UM why they're kind of interesting. Yeah. Absolutely, So. We

2050
01:48:04,920 --> 01:48:14,360
Speaker 1: specialize in custom land maps for hunters, habitat specialists, ranchers, land,

2051
01:48:14,400 --> 01:48:17,920
Speaker 1: real estate agents, really anybody that needs the best view

2052
01:48:18,080 --> 01:48:22,280
Speaker 1: possible of their land UM is who we work for. Essentially,

2053
01:48:22,280 --> 01:48:26,799
Speaker 1: the foundation of HUNTERA is the blending of UH imagery

2054
01:48:26,920 --> 01:48:32,479
Speaker 1: or aerial photography and terrain shadowing or relief so that

2055
01:48:32,520 --> 01:48:35,439
Speaker 1: you can see the rises and falls of your property

2056
01:48:35,720 --> 01:48:38,160
Speaker 1: and all the terrain features that that we talked about

2057
01:48:38,680 --> 01:48:42,000
Speaker 1: UM in addition to the actual picture in the land

2058
01:48:42,080 --> 01:48:45,200
Speaker 1: cover of your property with the aerial UM and on

2059
01:48:45,280 --> 01:48:48,960
Speaker 1: top of that we we add layers like your your

2060
01:48:49,000 --> 01:48:52,880
Speaker 1: property border or topo lines. Which is when we came

2061
01:48:52,880 --> 01:48:55,280
Speaker 1: out with that feature last year, it was pretty UM,

2062
01:48:56,360 --> 01:49:00,120
Speaker 1: it was really well received. What we create, what we'vec

2063
01:49:00,240 --> 01:49:03,640
Speaker 1: is the ultimate map for for hunters UM and we

2064
01:49:03,680 --> 01:49:06,960
Speaker 1: can map anything from whether you've got forty acres all

2065
01:49:06,960 --> 01:49:11,120
Speaker 1: the way up to four thousand acres and everywhere in between. UM.

2066
01:49:11,360 --> 01:49:13,760
Speaker 1: We make maps on two different types of paper. We

2067
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:15,519
Speaker 1: do field maps for taking out to the sealing and

2068
01:49:15,520 --> 01:49:17,800
Speaker 1: it's gonna be durable for you throughout the whole the

2069
01:49:17,840 --> 01:49:20,720
Speaker 1: whole hunting season in the offseason, and then we make

2070
01:49:20,880 --> 01:49:23,920
Speaker 1: poster maps which are for interior display. Got a number

2071
01:49:23,920 --> 01:49:28,760
Speaker 1: of different sizes, but are what we The foundation of

2072
01:49:28,760 --> 01:49:32,000
Speaker 1: our company is really built around working one on one

2073
01:49:32,400 --> 01:49:34,519
Speaker 1: with each one of our customers. I think you guys

2074
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:36,400
Speaker 1: up all the time. You know, they call us up

2075
01:49:36,439 --> 01:49:39,400
Speaker 1: all the time and say, Hey, I've got this scenario.

2076
01:49:39,720 --> 01:49:41,840
Speaker 1: What do you think size wise? You know, I've got

2077
01:49:41,840 --> 01:49:45,360
Speaker 1: this much ground? Um, what do you think I should get? So? Uh,

2078
01:49:45,520 --> 01:49:48,160
Speaker 1: we work one on one the whole way through the

2079
01:49:48,200 --> 01:49:51,519
Speaker 1: review process. Uh. And then once you're once you're happy

2080
01:49:51,600 --> 01:49:54,600
Speaker 1: with um the way the map is designed, uh, that

2081
01:49:54,760 --> 01:49:57,519
Speaker 1: we do the review process or email whatce you're happy

2082
01:49:57,520 --> 01:49:59,640
Speaker 1: with that and give us the approval. That's one of

2083
01:49:59,640 --> 01:50:01,800
Speaker 1: the actual we send the print shop so that a

2084
01:50:01,840 --> 01:50:04,360
Speaker 1: lot of cool products and our goal is just to

2085
01:50:04,400 --> 01:50:08,000
Speaker 1: make the the awtimate map for the outdoorsman. Well, uh,

2086
01:50:08,600 --> 01:50:10,920
Speaker 1: from my experience, at least from what I've seen, you're

2087
01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:13,599
Speaker 1: definitely living up to that goal. I have been very

2088
01:50:13,640 --> 01:50:15,920
Speaker 1: impressed with his maps and as I've alluded to throughout

2089
01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:17,960
Speaker 1: our conversation, have been using them over the past couple

2090
01:50:17,960 --> 01:50:21,120
Speaker 1: of years, and and really they do help make all

2091
01:50:21,160 --> 01:50:25,679
Speaker 1: these different features and um funnels and whatever. It really

2092
01:50:25,680 --> 01:50:27,880
Speaker 1: helps them pop. It helps you see these things in

2093
01:50:27,960 --> 01:50:30,680
Speaker 1: clear daylight and then allows you to make smart deer

2094
01:50:30,720 --> 01:50:34,000
Speaker 1: hunting or management habitat and firm decisions. So it's a

2095
01:50:34,040 --> 01:50:38,400
Speaker 1: great tool. And uh, I appreciate you sharing your incredible

2096
01:50:38,479 --> 01:50:42,040
Speaker 1: amount of experience and insight, and these stories and examples

2097
01:50:42,040 --> 01:50:44,519
Speaker 1: I think have, at least for me even have shed

2098
01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:47,360
Speaker 1: light a lot on these things. So so Ben, thank

2099
01:50:47,400 --> 01:50:50,559
Speaker 1: you so much for your time. Man. Thanks a lot, Mark,

2100
01:50:50,760 --> 01:50:53,680
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. And uh, and I certainly appreciates

2101
01:50:53,680 --> 01:50:57,559
Speaker 1: platform to to share what we do with with everybody

2102
01:50:57,600 --> 01:51:01,240
Speaker 1: that's listening from the Wired Foundation, so flat absolutely, And

2103
01:51:01,560 --> 01:51:03,600
Speaker 1: it's hunt tera dot com right If people want to

2104
01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:07,240
Speaker 1: learn more about what you're doing, hunt Tera dot com. Yeah,

2105
01:51:07,479 --> 01:51:11,040
Speaker 1: Tera dot com, and uh we're pretty active on We

2106
01:51:11,160 --> 01:51:14,559
Speaker 1: got a Facebook page and Instagram page and uh yeah

2107
01:51:14,720 --> 01:51:16,840
Speaker 1: those uh those are the ways you can you can

2108
01:51:17,080 --> 01:51:19,639
Speaker 1: reach out and learn more about what we do. Perfect well.

2109
01:51:19,640 --> 01:51:21,360
Speaker 1: I will make sure to include links to that in

2110
01:51:21,360 --> 01:51:24,519
Speaker 1: the blog. Post and uh until next time, Ben, have

2111
01:51:24,640 --> 01:51:30,240
Speaker 1: a terrific evening. Nice Mark. Alright, bye bye. So there

2112
01:51:30,479 --> 01:51:34,040
Speaker 1: you go. Another episode in the books, and I hope

2113
01:51:34,080 --> 01:51:36,400
Speaker 1: you all found this deep dive into mapping as helpful

2114
01:51:36,479 --> 01:51:39,960
Speaker 1: as I did. I, like I said numerous times throughout

2115
01:51:39,960 --> 01:51:42,400
Speaker 1: the episode today, I just love this topic of maps

2116
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:44,599
Speaker 1: and how you can use these tools. And I think

2117
01:51:44,640 --> 01:51:47,120
Speaker 1: Ben did a great job of breaking things down to

2118
01:51:47,200 --> 01:51:49,639
Speaker 1: the basics and then going into some of these more

2119
01:51:49,680 --> 01:51:52,599
Speaker 1: detailed concepts too. I had a blast with it, so

2120
01:51:52,880 --> 01:51:56,080
Speaker 1: hopefully I'm not the only one. Now before we shut

2121
01:51:56,120 --> 01:51:59,360
Speaker 1: things down, I do have a couple of quick requests

2122
01:51:59,360 --> 01:52:02,320
Speaker 1: if you don't mind so. First, if you haven't done

2123
01:52:02,360 --> 01:52:04,639
Speaker 1: so yet, we would greatly appreciate it if you could

2124
01:52:04,680 --> 01:52:07,200
Speaker 1: leave us a rating or review on iTunes. It is

2125
01:52:07,240 --> 01:52:09,720
Speaker 1: a huge, huge help to us, so so thank you

2126
01:52:09,760 --> 01:52:11,840
Speaker 1: and a vanswer doing that it means the world. And

2127
01:52:11,920 --> 01:52:14,439
Speaker 1: while you're on iTunes, if you haven't subscribed yet to

2128
01:52:14,479 --> 01:52:17,439
Speaker 1: the podcast, make sure you do so. That allows you

2129
01:52:17,479 --> 01:52:20,200
Speaker 1: to get all the new episodes delivered automatically right to

2130
01:52:20,240 --> 01:52:23,200
Speaker 1: your phone or tablet or computer. Makes things super easy,

2131
01:52:23,280 --> 01:52:27,280
Speaker 1: so make sure subscribe. And speaking of subscribing to podcasts.

2132
01:52:27,600 --> 01:52:29,920
Speaker 1: If you're not subscribed yet to The white Tail Q

2133
01:52:30,080 --> 01:52:33,120
Speaker 1: and a podcast that's another one you should definitely check out.

2134
01:52:33,160 --> 01:52:36,960
Speaker 1: That is my other podcast, the Short Form Quick Podcast

2135
01:52:36,960 --> 01:52:41,000
Speaker 1: in which we answer one listener submitted question. That is

2136
01:52:41,000 --> 01:52:42,960
Speaker 1: a podcast I would love for you guys all to

2137
01:52:43,040 --> 01:52:46,240
Speaker 1: go listen to, to subscribe to, and if you haven't

2138
01:52:46,320 --> 01:52:48,960
Speaker 1: yet either leave over you there as well. That is awesome,

2139
01:52:49,000 --> 01:52:50,680
Speaker 1: So so thank you to Vance you can do that.

2140
01:52:50,840 --> 01:52:54,000
Speaker 1: And finally, we do need to thank our partners will

2141
01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:56,519
Speaker 1: help keep this podcast on the air, So thank you too,

2142
01:52:56,560 --> 01:53:01,960
Speaker 1: Sick Gear, Trophy, Ridge, Bear Archery, Redneck Blind On, Tara Maps, Oxonics,

2143
01:53:02,000 --> 01:53:05,880
Speaker 1: Lacrosse Boots, and the White Tail Institute of North America.

2144
01:53:06,240 --> 01:53:09,040
Speaker 1: And finally, thank you all for being the best damn

2145
01:53:09,080 --> 01:53:12,960
Speaker 1: podcast audience on the planet. I really truly appreciate you

2146
01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:15,920
Speaker 1: tuning in. So until next time, have a great day,

2147
01:53:16,320 --> 01:53:19,880
Speaker 1: chase those white tailed dreams, and stay wired to hunt.