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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com. All right, shall we get to Venezuela. Sticking

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Speaker 1: in terms of international affairs, huge news yesterday. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I have a lot of thoughts about this.

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Speaker 1: Right now, the Trump administration is basically publicly telegraphing what

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Speaker 1: we did to Saddam. We're like, hey, Maduro, you gotta go,

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Speaker 1: and we are building up a military campaign. We're striking

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Speaker 1: drug traffickers right off the coast of Venezuela. We have

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Speaker 1: a fifty million dollar bounty on Maduro's head. Trump now

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Speaker 1: bragging in the Oval office, we are looking at land

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Speaker 1: strikes directly inside of Venezuela. Let's take a listen the

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Speaker 1: next step in this war on cartels and are you

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Speaker 1: considering options? Are you considering strikes on land?

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't want to tell you exactly, but we

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Speaker 3: are certainly looking at land now because we've got the

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Speaker 3: sea very well under control. We've had a couple of

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Speaker 3: days where there isn't a boat to be found. Then

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Speaker 3: that I view that as a good thing, not a

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Speaker 3: bad thing. But we had tremendous amounts coming in by boats,

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Speaker 3: by very expensive boats. You know, they have a lot

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Speaker 3: of money, very fast, very expensive boats that were pretty big.

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Speaker 3: And the way you look at it is every boat

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Speaker 3: that we knock out, we save twenty five thousand American lives.

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Speaker 3: So every time you see a boat and you feel badly,

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Speaker 3: you say, well that's rough. It is rough. But if

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Speaker 3: you lose three people and save twenty five thousand people,

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Speaker 3: these are people that are killing our population.

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Speaker 1: So he says, there we're looking at He won't rule

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Speaker 1: out any of the land strikes both. The reason why

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Speaker 1: pairs very importantly is with this story. Let's put it

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Speaker 1: up here on the screen from the New York Times quote,

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Speaker 1: the Trump administration is authorized covert CIA action in Venezuela.

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Speaker 1: It says they have secretly authorized the CIA to conduct

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Speaker 1: action against Nicholas Maduro specifically, so keep that in mind,

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Speaker 1: not against so called drug trafficking. They're saying against the

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Speaker 1: Maduro government specifically. They say that he has acknowledged in

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Speaker 1: fact that we are quote looking at land now because

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Speaker 1: we've got the CEA very well under control considering strikes

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Speaker 1: on Venezuelan territory. This new authority allows the CIA to

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Speaker 1: carry out lethal operations in Venezuela and conduct a range

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Speaker 1: of operations in the Caribbean. The agency would be able

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Speaker 1: to take covert action against Maduro or his government, either

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Speaker 1: unilaterally or in conjunction with a larger military operation. It

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Speaker 1: is not yet known whether the CIA is planning any

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Speaker 1: specific operations, but the development comes as the US military

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Speaker 1: is planning its own possible explanation. So one of the

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Speaker 1: immediate analyzes I saw of this is that if you

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Speaker 1: look at the way this all works is this could

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Speaker 1: be some sort of limited hangout thing to get in

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Speaker 1: the New York Times, specifically to make because it's the

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Speaker 1: front page story. Now, maybe they did just get it

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Speaker 1: as a leak. I'm a little bit suspicious. I tend

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Speaker 1: to think all of this is about a public pressure

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Speaker 1: campaign to try to get him to step down voluntarily,

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Speaker 1: because it's one of those where, look, you know, the

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Speaker 1: CIA is scary, especially Latin America, right, we have a

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Speaker 1: long legacy of trying to do stuff down there. You

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Speaker 1: have the military campaign, you have the boat, you have

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Speaker 1: the president not ruling it out. It seems to me

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Speaker 1: that this was supposed to be tough. I'm not excusing it,

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Speaker 1: by the way, because I still think it's completely insane,

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Speaker 1: and of course you could still follow through with it.

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Speaker 1: It seems to me, or on the immediate term, that

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Speaker 1: it was leaked intentionally to try to ramp up the pressure. Regardless, though,

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Speaker 1: this is a great gift to Madurero in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: because now what can he do every time that there's

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Speaker 1: an opposition leader CIA, If somebody tries to attack you, CIA,

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Speaker 1: just kill him, right, and the people will say, look

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Speaker 1: at these people, they're meddling in our government. Of course

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Speaker 1: they're trying to kill me, they're trying to overthrow me.

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Speaker 1: This is like the Latin American strongman argument for the

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Speaker 1: last fifty years down there, it's like, oh, it's always

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Speaker 1: CIA or somebody. Sometimes it is, but in this case,

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Speaker 1: what he's doing is actually making it so that Maduro

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Speaker 1: can blame all of Venezuela's problems on the United States,

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Speaker 1: which he's been doing for the last decade. But even

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Speaker 1: more importantly, I think here is the series. Like from

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Speaker 1: day one, I was like, I'm very scared. This looks

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Speaker 1: regime change. And even Wan David Rohaus we had on

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Speaker 1: he was like, Oh, I don't know, it's like, could

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Speaker 1: be just be like stupidity. Right in terms of striking

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Speaker 1: the drug boats. Now, I don't think it's deniable, from

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Speaker 1: the military operations to the bounty, to this authorizing CIA

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Speaker 1: action against Venezuela, the fact that Marco Rubio and Miller

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Speaker 1: are running the White House and the Pentagon. Right, so

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Speaker 1: keep in mind Rubio again, Rubio is somehow convinced Trump

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Speaker 1: that this Venezuela thing is connected to drugs. There's not

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Speaker 1: a scrap of evidence of that. It's complete bullshit, literally bullshit.

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Speaker 1: According to Dia Dea statistics, because especially in all the

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Speaker 1: interviews they mentioned fentional this is zero percent fentanyl comes

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Speaker 1: from Venezuela again according to the DEA. Now, if you

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Speaker 1: look at what's really going on here, it could be

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Speaker 1: about oil, It could be about a particular South Florida

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Speaker 1: constituency which is backed Rubio his entire life and political career.

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Speaker 1: The fact that Rubio has posted photos of Maduro next

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Speaker 1: to Gaddafi. I mean, this is scary because this could

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Speaker 1: create a chaotic political vacuum. Even if he did step

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Speaker 1: down voluntarily, what is going to come next? Right, what's

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Speaker 1: going to happen then? And then we're going to march

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Speaker 1: down in there, We're going to back some government like

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Speaker 1: the Juan Guido situation was humiliating, was a disaster.

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Speaker 2: And I don't want to hear jackshit about migration from

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Speaker 2: any fool who is supporting any of this, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: creating a failed state, like going in and creating a

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Speaker 2: failed state, Like what do you think that is going

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Speaker 2: to happen there? How is that going to work out?

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Speaker 2: To work out with Syria? You know? How did that

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Speaker 2: go for Europe? How did that go for the Syrian people? So? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean I have been trying to wrap my head,

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Speaker 2: like you around why Mark or Rubio? That makes sense?

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Speaker 2: I think it's both ideological and it's in his political interest.

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Speaker 2: These are his political backer he's trying to deliver for them.

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Speaker 2: He has long been in love with the idea of

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Speaker 2: regime change in Venezuela. But for Trump, like, did he

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Speaker 2: really was he really convinced of this bullshit drug trafficking thing?

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Speaker 2: Is it about oil? I genuinely, it's so insane insane

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Speaker 2: to me. And then the other part that is crazy

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Speaker 2: to me is like they don't really it doesn't seem

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Speaker 2: like they really feel the need to message this to

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Speaker 2: the American people, Like, I know, they talk about fentanyl

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Speaker 2: and they talk about the drugs, but there hasn't been

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Speaker 2: a major propaganda campaign to really get people on board

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Speaker 2: with the idea of some sort of large scale, you know,

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Speaker 2: covert and they're talking about mill direct military options regime

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Speaker 2: change in Venezuela. So the whole thing is wild, and

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Speaker 2: I think it's part of why people have struggled to

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Speaker 2: take it seriously. Like the media doesn't cover it nearly

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Speaker 2: as much.

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Speaker 1: They don't. They really don't as it.

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Speaker 2: Should because it just seems like such an insane, bizarre

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Speaker 2: thing to do. And yet here we continue week by

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Speaker 2: week to track how they're okay, now they're you know,

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Speaker 2: now they're blowing up these boats. Now they put a

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Speaker 2: bounty on his head. Now they're claiming that he runs

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Speaker 2: this drug trafficking network. Now they're saying that drug traffick ackers,

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Speaker 2: you know, are terrorists, and you can just take military

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Speaker 2: action against simbolle nilly. Now Here, we are greenlighting the CIA.

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Speaker 2: Now Here, we are developing military options. Now we've masked,

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Speaker 2: they say. In the New York Times, they say the

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Speaker 2: scale of the military build up in the region is substantial.

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Speaker 2: Currently ten thousand troops there, most of them at basis

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Speaker 2: in Puerto Rico, but also contingent of Marines on amphibious

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Speaker 2: assault ships. In all, the Navy has eight surface warships

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Speaker 2: and a submarine in the Caribbean. So all of the

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Speaker 2: pieces are there, and you have an administration with you know,

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Speaker 2: characters like Marco Rubio, who is one of the most

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Speaker 2: powerful people in the government at this point, has been

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Speaker 2: handed all sorts of responsibility who are dying the wole

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Speaker 2: like biocons have wanted this regime change forever. So I

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Speaker 2: don't know, at a certain point, you got to take

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Speaker 2: them really seriously that they actually intend it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, have taken it seriously from the beginning.

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Speaker 1: It's genuinely terrifying, and it actually does fit exactly with

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Speaker 1: what you're saying. I mean, actually, i'll skip ahead here

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Speaker 1: in some of our elements because they're important, just to

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Speaker 1: show you how it fits. Put to the last one

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Speaker 1: up here, please d five up on the screen. This

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Speaker 1: was a very recent visit from the top US admiral

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Speaker 1: to the Caribbean. Actually, amid all these Venezuela attentions, like

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Speaker 1: when you start to see the high level you know, generals,

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Speaker 1: the admirals and others start to make little trips down

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Speaker 1: there for what purpose. I mean, they try to describe

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Speaker 1: it as routine, but you have this huge naval build up. Also,

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Speaker 1: keep in mind what Trump even said in that statement.

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Speaker 1: Remember he was like, we have the c under control,

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Speaker 1: now we need the land. So he's basically describing it

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Speaker 1: as taking like a like you know, setting it up

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Speaker 1: for some sort of naval blockade or nobody really even knows.

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Speaker 1: Like here we had the Navy admiral he met with Antigua,

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Speaker 1: with Barbado, Barbuda, Granada and others at the US embassy

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Speaker 1: apparently in barb Betos some of the Caribbean nations, which

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming are near the naval flotilla that we have

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Speaker 1: out there. But the point remains, like you have two

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Speaker 1: visits apparently just already to southcom like where Latin America

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Speaker 1: US forces. You have the military build up, you have

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Speaker 1: the strikes which are happening, and then you have the CIA.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is you have to put it all together.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you on the media stuff. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if I go to I mean, we'll give the New

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Speaker 1: York Times credit because they broke the story. It was

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Speaker 1: their front page and it's a great story. But I

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Speaker 1: mean if I turn on MSNBC or something like that,

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Speaker 1: what's the lead story going to be?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 1: This is huge? This is huge, Like this is regime

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Speaker 1: change for real. Whether it comes violently or it coherst

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Speaker 1: it's it's still scary. And then you own it one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent. Who the hell even knows? And then the

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Speaker 1: bleed effect into Colombia, the entire Caribbean. They're already there

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Speaker 1: are all these Venezuelans coming here fleeing from Maduro. Can

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Speaker 1: you even imagine, you know, if you have a failed state,

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Speaker 1: which you know, it's already kind of there, But imagine

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Speaker 1: a complete political collapse in Venezuela could destroy so much

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Speaker 1: of what of Latin America, which we have responsibility for.

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Speaker 1: We have close allies there in the region. So I'm

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Speaker 1: very very worried about it, especially you know, you fit

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Speaker 1: it with this Colombian news put D four up here

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Speaker 1: on the screen. Colombia's president actually says that one of

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Speaker 1: the boats struck by the United States was actually carrying

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Speaker 1: Colombian citizens. The White House has called the claim quote baseless.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, but they give us no

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Speaker 1: you would assume, yeah, right, the White House.

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Speaker 2: They've never given us any evidence for any of these

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Speaker 2: boats that they actually are what they say they are.

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Speaker 2: We know it is very unlikely because of the nature

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Speaker 2: of drug trafficking, like it's it's unlike now maybe, but

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Speaker 2: again they give us no evidence. And one of the

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Speaker 2: boats reporters were able to get in touch with the

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Speaker 2: widow of one of the guys who was murdered by

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Speaker 2: our military, and she was like, he's literally a fisherman.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they joke about it. They joke, Oh, I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't go fishing in that area. I mean, it's just

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Speaker 2: like that piece too. I put to the side. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I also want to say part of how we

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Speaker 2: get to a point where they can just blow up

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Speaker 2: random boats and you know, and with no accountability and

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Speaker 2: providing us no evidence that these are actually drug traffickers,

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Speaker 2: Not that I would find it acceptably even if they are,

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Speaker 2: you're supposed to interdict them or whatever. But the reason

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Speaker 2: that this groundwork has been laid is all because of

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Speaker 2: the War on Terror two, where you had the massive

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Speaker 2: you know, the drone strike campaign where you know, no

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Speaker 2: evidence was offered there, and Obama expands it and these

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Speaker 2: things become baked in to the executive power and now

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Speaker 2: you can just blow up random boats with random you know,

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Speaker 2: fishermen and be like, yeah, we got the bad guys.

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Speaker 2: You should congratulate us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this stuff happens what every like every

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Speaker 1: day in the War on Terror. Whenever we covered it,

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Speaker 1: like literally all the time, it would be I covered

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Speaker 1: the War on isis. Everything was just on the Pentagon's word.

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Speaker 1: They're like Ice is operating an oil refinery, this is

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Speaker 1: a hotel where isis sustained. They didn't really provide you anything.

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Speaker 1: It's like a grainy footage basically like what they did

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Speaker 1: in their latest strike. We can show you D three

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Speaker 1: please on the screen. This is all they I mean,

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Speaker 1: this could be anything, right, yeah, it's quite literally could

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Speaker 1: be anything. Uh. In one of them you could kind

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Speaker 1: of see packages of something which to the eye looked

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Speaker 1: like it could be wrapped up kilos of cocaine. This

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Speaker 1: one is there's nothing. That's all you get unclassified. You

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Speaker 1: got a boat in the ocean and then you have

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Speaker 1: a missile hitting it. That's that's all you got.

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Speaker 2: And the very first one there were eleven people on

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Speaker 2: board the boat, and people who know a lot about

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Speaker 2: the drug trafficking trades that this is very unlikely to

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Speaker 2: have been drug trafficking boat, because you want to have

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Speaker 2: that thing loaded up with drugs, not with people. And

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Speaker 2: the more people you have on board, the fewer drugs

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Speaker 2: you can have on board, and so your profit is

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Speaker 2: way weighed less. So having eleven people on board, and

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Speaker 2: just the fact that it's coming from Venezuelan and this

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Speaker 2: is not the you know, the Venezuelan like drug boat

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Speaker 2: trafficking thing is not significant. So we don't know that

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Speaker 2: any of these boats were actually drug traffickers. They'll they'll

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Speaker 2: just say anything, and you know, we'll show you in

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Speaker 2: the next block the way that held just lie about

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Speaker 2: random stuff too, and completely shamelessly. You cannot trust anything

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Speaker 2: that they say. And listen, you shouldn't trust anything that

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Speaker 2: any government says, like you should always have skepticism, you

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Speaker 2: should always verify. But they've been completely brazen about inventing,

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Speaker 2: you know, the opposite of the truth and just lying

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Speaker 2: about it day in and day out, and then bragging

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Speaker 2: about how, yeah, you know, you shouldn't go fishing in

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Speaker 2: the region because you know, maybe we're going to blow

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Speaker 2: up your fishing boat. That's that's where we are with that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, okay, why don't we get to ice.

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Speaker 2: Things seem to be escalating in la in Chicago and

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Speaker 2: Portland as well. I've got some updates for you on

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Speaker 2: some of those cities. And Trump is saying that he

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Speaker 2: is now going to go into other cities in addition

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Speaker 2: to the ones that he is to already surch federal

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Speaker 2: agents into. Let's take a listen to that.

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Speaker 3: We're just at the start. We're going to go into

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Speaker 3: other cities that we're not talking about purposely, we're getting

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Speaker 3: ready to go in. And when they go in, like

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Speaker 3: Cash is an example, tell me that people didn't even

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Speaker 3: know five months ago. They went into Chicago and they

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Speaker 3: started doing a lot to work in Chicago, and we

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Speaker 3: brought the numbers down a little bit. But that really

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Speaker 3: was just repertory work for what we're going to do

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Speaker 3: with the surge. We're gonna have a surge of strong,

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Speaker 3: good people, patriots, and they get to go in they

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Speaker 3: straightened it all out.

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Speaker 2: Didn't get elected.

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Speaker 3: I did get elected for crime, but I didn't get

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Speaker 3: elected for what we're doing. This is many many steps

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Speaker 3: above it. I want to thank Steven Miller, who's right

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Speaker 3: back in the audience right there. I'd love to have him.

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Speaker 3: I love watching him on television. I'd love to have

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Speaker 3: him come up and explain his true feelings. Maybe not

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Speaker 3: his truest feelings, that might be going a little bit

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Speaker 3: too far, but Steven, thank you for doing an unbelievable job.

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Speaker 3: And the people of this country love you, I'll tell you,

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Speaker 3: and they love what you say about crime and stopping crime.

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Speaker 2: So some interesting comments there about Steven Miller. You know, previously,

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Speaker 2: you know, Trump had said something about like you would

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Speaker 2: just want everybody to look like you in this country,

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Speaker 2: so he maybe doesn't want those truest feelings from Steven

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Speaker 2: Miller being expressed.

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Speaker 1: I don't think we should all want to look like

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Speaker 1: Steven Miller and no offense. It's the same, you can say.

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Speaker 2: It with events. But the noteworthy part there, obviously, the

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Speaker 2: biggest news is that he's planning more of these searches

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Speaker 2: of federal agents into other cities. And we've got an

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Speaker 2: update the significant out of la So that city is

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Speaker 2: just voted to declare a state of emergency as a

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Speaker 2: result of the ice raids and everything that's going on there.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a listen to that.

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Speaker 4: Lake County has declared a state of emergency over the

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Speaker 4: immigration raids. The Board of Supervisors voted today. Board members

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Speaker 4: say the raids are preventing people from going to work

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Speaker 4: and forcing some businesses to close. The emergency allows the

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Speaker 4: board to look at enacting an eviction moratorium and other

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Speaker 4: protections for people impacted by the raids.

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Speaker 2: So it is a city where roughly a third of

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Speaker 2: the population is immigrants, the largest undocumented population in the country.

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Speaker 2: This sort of designation is typically used for like natural disasters,

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Speaker 2: but they feel like the economic and societal tumult is

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Speaker 2: enough to justify it here. I think there was only

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Speaker 2: one dissenter on the board who voted against this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I looked into this, and I

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Speaker 1: honestly find it a bit crazy. So the state of emergency,

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Speaker 1: as I understand it, allows the city to provide an

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Speaker 1: eviction moratorium specifically because they don't want to release immigration

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Speaker 1: status in a court. And in fact, some of the

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Speaker 1: times La County is funneling they said. This is not

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Speaker 1: exactly confirmed because the reporting out of Los Angeles is

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Speaker 1: very sketchy, but some of it includes rent dive like

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Speaker 1: rent specifically, not just to viction moratorium, but rent relief

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Speaker 1: for people, which I think would go to people who

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Speaker 1: are here illegally, which I honestly find a bit insane.

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Speaker 1: So that seems to be part of the city. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I cannot imagine living in the city of Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: probably one of the most expensive cities in the world,

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Speaker 1: probably in the United States at least, where your effective

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Speaker 1: tax rate is going to be some fifty percent if

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Speaker 1: you're making over one hundred two hundred thousand dollars a year,

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Speaker 1: and then a significant portion of your tax dollars are

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Speaker 1: going to illegal relief. I mean, look, it's your money.

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Speaker 1: I guess you guys can do what you want, and

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Speaker 1: that seems to be politically the ways that you want

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Speaker 1: to go. But I don't know. I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: particularly like a winning message for democratic cities and counties,

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Speaker 1: like in terms of their prioritization. That's the immediately like

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Speaker 1: what I was able to see. It's also kind of

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Speaker 1: gives the game away. It's like, you're so reliant on

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Speaker 1: illegal labor that you literally a state of emergency if

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Speaker 1: you take away all your labors.

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Speaker 2: So I think there's a few things that I would

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Speaker 2: that I would say to that. I mean, I have

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Speaker 2: no idea what the polling is. I suspect that there's

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Speaker 2: probably a widespread support since you had you know, you

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Speaker 2: had widespread support on the council, and I suspect there's

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Speaker 2: wide spread support. There's widespread rejection in the city of

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Speaker 2: the escalation in ice rates and ice tactics, and so

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Speaker 2: few things I would say about that. I mean, Number one,

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Speaker 2: undocumented immigrants do buy in large paid taxes into the city,

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Speaker 2: so it is some of their money as well. Two

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Speaker 2: third of the population are immigrants, and it's not just

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Speaker 2: undocumented immigrants that are being impacted here. As we've discussed here.

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Speaker 2: You know, you've got Kavanaugh stops, so basically anyone who's

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Speaker 2: Latino can be harassed. You've had some instances of people

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Speaker 2: being fined for not having their papers prove even though

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Speaker 2: they were citizens, being fined for not having their papers

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Speaker 2: to prove their citizenship. And then the other thing I

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Speaker 2: would say, so it's not just undocumented immigrants who would

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Speaker 2: be impacted, you know, eligible potential for a relief. You

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Speaker 2: also have a you know, a mass sort of societal

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Speaker 2: tumult in LA that has been likely very impactful in

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Speaker 2: terms of their economy. And you have a lot of

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Speaker 2: mixed status families. So if you have US citizens, this

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Speaker 2: is very common US citizen kids, undocumented parents. You know,

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Speaker 2: they're unable to go to work because they're afraid of

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Speaker 2: getting picked up by ice. Now you've got a situation

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Speaker 2: where the whole family is going to be evicted, and

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Speaker 2: what happens if they're evicted, Well, then you have more

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Speaker 2: of a burden on social services, you have more of

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Speaker 2: a burden on shelters. So you know, I think there's

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Speaker 2: a sense that well, if we can keep them in

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Speaker 2: their apartments, that actually could save money for the city.

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Speaker 2: Long term, because then we're not having this increased burden

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Speaker 2: on our.

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Speaker 1: Social This is this is kind of like reducing it

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Speaker 1: though a little bit, where like at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, I think this is kind of how you

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Speaker 1: get here where you have a system that's architected literally

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Speaker 1: for illegal labor, and you have an entire city of

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles where I mean, look, let's be honest, like

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Speaker 1: if we have to declare a state of emergency because

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Speaker 1: illegals can't come to work, what does that tell you

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Speaker 1: about the economy of one of the richest places in

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Speaker 1: the United States. And this is the part where you

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Speaker 1: know a lot of these leftists and liberals they just

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Speaker 1: never grapple with this, like is should we really have

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Speaker 1: a city of effective slave labor so that you can

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Speaker 1: have your villa where you get a door dash twenty

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Speaker 1: five dollars burrito deliver you to you buy an illegal immigrant.

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Speaker 1: I mean, remember we we argued about this on a farm.

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Speaker 1: They were like, oh, children have been swept up in farming.

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Speaker 1: Why are children on farms? Why are these illegal children

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Speaker 1: on a farm? You people never cared about that. When

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Speaker 1: you're smoking your toke from your cannabis, your cannabis retail store,

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Speaker 1: which gives you your little rewards program and your high potency,

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Speaker 1: you're way to bring them back to waves Sager. It

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Speaker 1: was that only farm get enjoyed. It was at a

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Speaker 1: weed farm. I didn't just shoe horn it in there.

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Speaker 2: So let me say that, you know, this is We've

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Speaker 2: had this debates anytime. That's why I believe that people

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Speaker 2: should be brought out of the shadows so they cannot

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Speaker 2: be exploited. I think your concerns about, you know, the

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Speaker 2: exploitation of undocumented labor are entirely justified. I just come

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Speaker 2: down in a very different place in terms of what

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Speaker 2: the solution is. But I would also say Soccer that

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Speaker 2: it is like and you know, we'll show some more

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Speaker 2: clips here, but it is not just undocumented immigrants who

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Speaker 2: are fearful right now. In fact, there are a lot

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Speaker 2: of people even you know with legal status or who

431
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 2: are you know going through the asylum process or who

432
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,359
Speaker 2: are green gardles, like, no one is exempt from this,

433
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 2: and so the fear and the disruption in their life

434
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,199
Speaker 2: and the potential inability to go to work, all of

435
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 2: those things are not just with the undocumented community. It's

436
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 2: far more widespread and yes, LA is a city of immigrants.

437
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 2: I mean, like I said, it was, roughly a third

438
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 2: of the population who are immigrants are potentially impacted by this.

439
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 2: And that's the pre court decision that says, doesn't you

440
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 2: don't need any excuse to stop people other than them,

441
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 2: just like basically being brown makes it so that the

442
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 2: fear and the impact is much more widespread than it

443
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 2: would otherwise.

444
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 1: Spit. I'll grant you that that's the cleanest hit that

445
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 1: the left has got right now, and they're not wrong.

446
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 1: But part of the reason I wanted to focus on

447
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,879
Speaker 1: that La stuff is because I'm like, that's how you

448
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: got here, Okay, you created a political system where for

449
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 1: a lot of us, it feels like you have an

450
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 1: entire like the entire liberal city focus is on criminals,

451
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:31,640
Speaker 1: making sure that they can get away with as much

452
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 1: crime as possible, and on making sure illgals apparently treated

453
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: as everyday citizens. I'll give you a perfect example here

454
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 1: in Washington, DC. You remember the whole Big Balls mugging

455
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 1: which justified the National Guard. Guess what happened to those

456
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 1: two teens who mugged them? Probation, nothing, no jail time,

457
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 1: nothing going after him the DC people just let them

458
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 1: right out of there. That's how you get to the

459
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: National Guard to deployment. It's like you have to grapple

460
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 1: with failed governance and with priorities. Live in the richest

461
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 1: city were literally one of the richest cities in the

462
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: history of the world, where you have ten percent of

463
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 1: the people there who are there illegally. You have to

464
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: tactically admit that your skyrocketing price and everything is not

465
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: capable without your slave labor from Guatemala, and then the

466
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: only possible solution you come to is pathway to citizenship.

467
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,199
Speaker 1: That is why people freak out, people like me. I'll

468
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: give you example of who's the founder of Reddit. I

469
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 1: think his name is Alexis something. I forget his name.

470
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 1: He made a long post about ice and everything. He's like,

471
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,160
Speaker 1: my family were undocumented and he goes instead of these

472
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: ice raids. That's why we need a pathway to citizenship.

473
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 1: And it just strikes me again, is like, if your

474
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: only option for many of us is amnesty or this shit,

475
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: a lot of people are going to choose this shit

476
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: because even in a pathway to citizenship, for example, there

477
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 1: will come a time where many of the people who

478
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 1: don't qualify what happens to them. Are they going to

479
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: leave willingly? They have to be deported somehow. Sometimes we're

480
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 1: going to have to go and find them. Are you

481
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 1: ever going to support that? No, we know the answer.

482
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,919
Speaker 1: They don't support law enforcement removing illegals from the country.

483
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 2: Are making it such a binary choice.

484
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: Like actually was either, like it really was.

485
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 2: I don't think so, Soger, because I mean, listen to me,

486
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 2: it was right to me. It was when I saw

487
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 2: mass deportation. Now, I'm not going to say I knew

488
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 2: it would be black hawk helicopters rating apartment building the

489
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 2: middle of night and Zip taig naked children. Okay, I'm

490
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 2: not going to say I knew that. I knew it

491
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: would be something approaching. I mean, Trump talked about the insuraction,

492
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 2: like invoking the Insurrection Act. But there is a balance

493
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 2: that could be struck between like you know, ice absolute

494
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 2: terror rain in a variety of cities and targeting blue

495
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: cities in particular blue states because you don't like the politicians.

496
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: Who are at where because they created but.

497
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 2: A total impunity for these guys who are assaulting again

498
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 2: American citizens right, who are assaulting legal immigrants who are

499
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 2: racially profiling anyone who looks running around in masks and

500
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: terrorizing entire cities. Like there is a way of doing

501
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 2: some immigration enforcement that doesn't look like that, but we did.

502
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 2: This is what But hold on. This is what I

503
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 2: find frustrating about your analysis. I know how you feel

504
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 2: about immigration, okay, but I feel that there is such

505
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 2: a heightened level of like scrutiny and expectation on one side,

506
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 2: and then a total lack of accountability, like the upset

507
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 2: over the way that the Trump administration has conducted themselves.

508
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 2: You just want to blame, like, oh, well, it's the

509
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: liberal's fault, it's Biden's fault, it's Newsom's fault, it's Karen

510
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 2: Bass's fault. Like these are grown human beings who control

511
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 2: all of the government. They have responsibility for their own decisions.

512
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: You can't just always blame liberals for what the fuck

513
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 2: they're doing.

514
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 1: I think that is entirely fair, But I would compare

515
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: it to can you are you capable of talking about

516
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: illegal immigrant crime without contextualizing it in the broader picture?

517
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: Not really like what I mean? Well, okay, so if

518
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, if we talk about let's say

519
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: that Lake and Riley case or any of that. Every

520
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 1: time we do it always has to come back to Oh,

521
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: but actually statistically they do. It's a bigger picture, and

522
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: it's America's fault that they're coming from Guatemala anyway, and

523
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 1: actually they commit less crimes than whites, and that's why

524
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: they're Actually they're better citizens.

525
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: Or carry you ready? No, no, no, criminal illegal immigrants

526
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 2: should be deported. Are you happy?

527
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: Of course, it's not that.

528
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: It's not hard to say, saga. You can say it.

529
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 2: I can say it very directly. I think that is

530
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 2: not what these people are doing. They are doing the

531
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 2: opposite of that. In fact, we have an element here

532
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 2: later in the show. You know the apartment building rate,

533
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 2: Yes one, they are claiming one trender Iragua member. The

534
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 2: vast majority of the people that are picking up have

535
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 2: no criminal records. The amount of drug trafficking and human

536
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 2: trafficking and convictions are down. They are doing the opposite

537
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 2: of going after undocumented criminals, illegal criminals. Okay, So like,

538
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,719
Speaker 2: if the goal is let's get out the bad people,

539
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: they are completely failing at that.

540
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: I grant you that. I grant you that entirely. What

541
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: I'm saying is about a political dynamic of which we

542
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: were entered. And now you talked about that there's a

543
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: middle way. We had it four years of the so

544
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: called middle way, where eight to ten million people entered

545
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 1: the country illegally. That was just as insane and lawless.

546
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: It absolutely no, It only wasn't because you don't because

547
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: you agree with the policy and you want to give

548
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: them citizenship. For many of us, we reject that. We say, actually,

549
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: that's a violation of immigration law. There is a violation

550
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: of the border, violation of our sovereignty as a country itself.

551
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: And yes, many people saw that as ridiculous, as lawless,

552
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: as out of control, and they gave us the option.

553
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 1: We had to choose between that and this, and the

554
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: majority of the people did choose at least some version

555
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: of this.

556
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 2: Are rejecting this, okay, but we don't.

557
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: We don't leave in government by pole immediately. So then

558
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: Biden should have just been thrown out of office. A

559
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: very privileged life, right, yeah, so do I let's put

560
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: that on the table too.

561
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 2: I haven't owned my own home. I'm doing fine, right,

562
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: So let's think about the people who are directly who

563
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 2: were both directly impacted by undocumented immigrants coming in and

564
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 2: who are now directly impacted by what the Trump administration

565
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 2: is doing. Okay, the people in that apartment building in Chicago, Okay,

566
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: there were definitely undocumented immigrants there, Yes, and they if

567
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 2: you talk to the residents, they have been far more

568
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 2: traumatized by what was done to them by this government

569
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 2: than by any of the undocumented immigrants who were there

570
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 2: in that apartment building. So if you're just talking.

571
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 1: Really correctly, but you're talking about about the.

572
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 2: People, about the people who have been directly affected both

573
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 2: by undocumented immigration and by a fascist crackdown in their city,

574
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 2: helicopter raid, like all of this insanity, there is no

575
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 2: doubt that they would much rather have the undocumented immigrants

576
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 2: in their building then their whole life turned upside down,

577
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 2: their children dragged out of their business, traumatized.

578
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: This seems very reductive because you're pointing to that one

579
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: apartment building. I could probably find ten apartment buildings where

580
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 1: people have said that illegals have come in with crime.

581
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: I mean, actually literally where I live, there's very nearby

582
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: there's public housing projects where they're having problems with MS thirteen.

583
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: And I actually even asked one of them I said,

584
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: what's the issue, said, Oh, we got all these Venezuelan

585
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: and migrants who've been coming in and breaking in.

586
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,719
Speaker 2: Yes, So then ask them if they would like, in

587
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 2: response to that, to have their apartment raided in the

588
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 2: middle the nine the children pulled down the street and

589
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 2: zip tied and throw a new haul.

590
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: I'm giving you the prospect of they're also upset about

591
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: the former, which is how we got to the latter. Now,

592
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: I'm not justifying what the Trump administration is doing, but similarly,

593
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: in the way that we talk about illegal crime, or

594
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 1: at least any liberal has talked about illegal crime, we

595
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: have to look at it in the context of how

596
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: we got here. Like there's no way. I know this

597
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: for a fact, having debated immigration with liberals now for

598
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: over a decade, they can are literally constitutionally incapable of

599
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: talking about illegal immigration without oh, what America messed up

600
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: Guatemala or whatever in the nineteen eighties, And that's why

601
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: it's our fault that all these people came over here.

602
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: It's not possible. Of course, we can look at stuff,

603
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: but in the cove.

604
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 2: A point, I mean, we're just talking about Venezuela, right,

605
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: We're just talking about Venezuela where we might do a

606
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 2: regime change where we have massive sanctions that have It's

607
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: not the only reason, but it's a big part of

608
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 2: a miserating the population. I mean, it seems to me

609
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: like that's actually a very important part of the conversation

610
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: because people don't want to have to leave there. They

611
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: want to be able to stay.

612
00:28:58,960 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: I don't agree with that.

613
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 2: I know it's absolutely it's absolutely.

614
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: The case over a billion people around the world would.

615
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 2: Even in a place like Venezuela, that is, you know,

616
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: where things are not good and haven't been good for

617
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: a while. It's not like everyone is leaving. People prefer

618
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: generally to stay where they're from. You know, the migrants

619
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: pushed down the Cereal like they don't want to have

620
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 2: to go to these European countries. We interviewed that Palestinian

621
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 2: now Australian doctor, doctor Poe, who grew up in the

622
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: UK and kids would be like, go back to where

623
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 2: your company is, Like I literally can't. Like I would

624
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 2: love to go back to Palestine. I would love to

625
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: not be a refugee, but I literally can't. So I

626
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 2: don't think that there's any problem with discussing those root casts.

627
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: That's why I don't think there's a problem in talking

628
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: about the incentive structure in the thought the border.

629
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 2: Hear you, I frustrat with me is it's every time

630
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 2: it's not the true. It's it's always trying to deflect

631
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 2: blame from the Trump administration onto something that some liberal

632
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: did that you didn't like, whenever or wherever. And it's like,

633
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: at a certain point, can we just say, you know what,

634
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 2: this is really unacceptable and I don't care what came before,

635
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: it is inexcusable. This is unacceptable, and we should be

636
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 2: outraged at the way their rights are being violated, at

637
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 2: the rate our rights are being violated, at the denial

638
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: of due process, at the fact that we can just

639
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: have mass racial profile, at the fact that these communities

640
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 2: are being terrorized, Like why can't we just have a

641
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: direct condemnation without all this, Like well, actually, but it's

642
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 2: the liberals.

643
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: Because I just don't really think that exists whenever again,

644
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: when we talk about illegal crime, or when we talk

645
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: about any of these other problems that illegals, cause it's

646
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: like nobody's so because.

647
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,239
Speaker 2: You don't like the way liberals talk about immigration, you

648
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: can't well don't you think it's what they're doing.

649
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of emotional blackmail in a way, like,

650
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: did we for the last four years just cover every

651
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: single illegal rape in the country and and you know

652
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: completely for what it was?

653
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: Like?

654
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: No, because I think honestly it would be ridiculous. I

655
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: think this is basically the inverse of that, where it's like, oh,

656
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: we have to condemn this one specific thing, we can't

657
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: talk about the broader The broader context matters. The body

658
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: politic actually did vote in a very specific way on this.

659
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: Now maybe they're feeling differently. Now. We don't live in

660
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: Gouvy pole fiat where immediately like if that were the case,

661
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 1: where then we should have said, fuck Biden, let's get

662
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: him out of here nine months into tight I.

663
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 2: Think your point would be reasonable if we're talking about

664
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 2: one offs, but we're talking about a whole government policy,

665
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: which is also not really about immigrant. It's partly about immigration,

666
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 2: but it's not really about immigration. This is about trying

667
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 2: to create a one party state. This is about trying

668
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 2: This is just the case. I mean, if you look

669
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: at we just said we didn't get this into this

670
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 2: show because it just broke yesterday. They're now trying to

671
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: turn the IRS into an investigation of any of their

672
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 2: political opponents. They want to go after George Soros's Open

673
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 2: Society's foundation. They want to try to criminalize basically donating

674
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 2: to any sort of left causes. You have NSPM seven,

675
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 2: which is meant to target anyone who is critical of

676
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 2: like the right or Trump, etc. You have them denying

677
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: visus to people because they said the wrong thing about

678
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk. They are we're going to talk to David

679
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 2: Sorrohata about these Supreme Court cases. They're trying to consolidate.

680
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: They are going for the whole thing. They're trying to

681
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 2: consolidate control, and part of that is the militarized response,

682
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: both with the National Guard but also with these federal

683
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 2: agents in the streets of these cities, which they are

684
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 2: only expanding. So yes, it's important to talk about what

685
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 2: that actually looks like on the ground. And it's also

686
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: really important when the government lies to you about what's happening,

687
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 2: to be able to expose the truth. They're trying to

688
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: provoke these direct confrontations because they want to use it again.

689
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: We know this from reporting to invoke the Insurrection Act,

690
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 2: which will give them an even freer hand. And this

691
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: is not just about immigrants, this is about all of

692
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 2: our rights. And I think that is abundantly claricy.

693
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: I said, that's the cleanest hit that they've got in

694
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: that obviously is where they're out of control. I'm not

695
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: really disputing a lot of your critique of the way

696
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: that the Trump administration has carried this out. I really

697
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: am not. What I am trying to get to is, look,

698
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you're off base with a one

699
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: party state thing. I think quite a lot of this

700
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: is either theater or in many cases it's like designed

701
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: to placate like specific political constitution and ses. I mean,

702
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: we can't cover the way that we've half handedly done

703
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: the world's worst trade war and then also say that

704
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: this is the most you know that this is some

705
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: like hyper efficient party state which is capable of takeover.

706
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: But also when.

707
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: They're able to be successful or not is a different

708
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: question of what they're trying to do.

709
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: Let me just take it back again. Hyper specific to

710
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: your critique is baked in like a liberal acceptance, let's say,

711
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: of the Voting Rights Act. I read a lot about that.

712
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about that with SIODA. It's like,

713
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: should race really qualify as part of gerrymandering because of

714
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: some interpretation of the nineteen sixty five Voting Rights Act.

715
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: In my opinion, based on everything I've read is specifically

716
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: agreement and critiques of the Civil Rights Act, I would

717
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: say no. I actually think it's a violation of the

718
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: way that we were originally supposed to apportion. It's just

719
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: only baked in to the post liberal cause that race

720
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: itself should be an identity issue. Now, will it be

721
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: bad for Democrats? Yeah, I don't really care about that.

722
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: I mean, wouldn't really care because there's a principal issue

723
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: for me. You disagree, that's fine, I'm just I'm trying

724
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: to take it.

725
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 2: Oh, I'll save that more of that country a moment.

726
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: But what we're talking about is taking, you know, an

727
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: area that is majority black and then dividing it like

728
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 2: a pinwheel to make sure that they have no representation.

729
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: And yes, I think that's wrong. And I think that

730
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 2: that means that those those are then just blumping them

731
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 2: all in one place, those people are being any political representation.

732
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 2: So I think, yeah, I think again.

733
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,879
Speaker 1: It's a racial carve out for political representation. I'm only

734
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: getting to implicit in all of this is a literal

735
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: liberal bias, where you see one as as more lawless

736
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 1: than another. You have to accept that, you know, if

737
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: we all want to live together. Many of us saw

738
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: what happened to the Biden administration as actually lawless insanity

739
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: and as a literal last chance, which is why many

740
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: people voted for Trump, and that theory pervades the current

741
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: United States government in their view of immigration specifically. Now,

742
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say for National Guard or for

743
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: any of that, because I actually do think that's kind

744
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: of a separate issue, even though I know that you

745
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 1: think it is the same in general on this issue.

746
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 1: If the the fact is, if we are so far

747
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: apart that again, for the binary, is literal amnesty for

748
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: all of them twenty twenty five million or deportation. Many

749
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: of us are gonna choose deportation, which is simply are

750
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: because that does seem to me the binary. When the

751
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: liberal elite and others are all saying that this is

752
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 1: the only other acceptable solution for many people, that is

753
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 1: a genuine threat.

754
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 2: And I just so I don't.

755
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,879
Speaker 1: Think that the liberals grasp that it's an actual red

756
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: line in the same way that maybe this is a

757
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: red line for you. And I don't begrudge anybody. If

758
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: you're liberal and you want to go out and make

759
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: this your number one issue, you have your absolute right

760
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: as an American you should try and convince people. In

761
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 1: my opinion, you're probably winning right now because most people

762
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: see lawlessness and chaos in the same way they saw

763
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: under Biden. And I think the cleanest hit that you

764
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: guys have is that this is a violation of our

765
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 1: rights as Americans, which to me is kind of nice

766
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 1: because it's like we finally get to talk about us

767
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: being as Americans. But one of the things that drives

768
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: me crazy is the conflation of the two and specifically

769
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: saying there might as well be citizens itself. That's why, honestly,

770
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: I'll say it, I still have a really hard time

771
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 1: with always trying to have a look at like, oh,

772
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: violation of this, this and that, And it's like, it's

773
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: so crazy to me that you can literally cross our

774
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 1: border illegally, take money, take a job, go live in

775
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: our housing, expect like the full you know, rights of

776
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: the US Constitution, of the government and all that other

777
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 1: people to protect you. I understand after talking with Glenn

778
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: why it has to be that way. So I accept it,

779
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: but intellectually I struggle with it. It doesn't seem right

780
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: to me that you can break our laws, that you

781
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: can enter here illegally, that in my opinion, you can

782
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: take and actually, you know, not do so much benefit

783
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: to our country, and that we have to roll the

784
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: red carpet out for you just to send you back

785
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: from where you came from. It's nuts in my opinion.

786
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 2: Well, even if you feel that way.

787
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: No, I've said, I accept that the law has to

788
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 1: be the way.

789
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: It is no easy, and I realize even if you

790
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 2: feel that way, the reality of like due process, you know,

791
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: is the perfect example here. If you don't have due process,

792
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 2: you don't even get if you're a citizen, getting caught

793
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 2: up in this to prove you're a citizen. And that's

794
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 2: where we are. That's where we are now, you know,

795
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 2: I mean, we have a number of instances of American citizens.

796
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 2: I don't I think it was the day I was

797
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: with maybe it was the day I would cover with Emily,

798
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: but the you know, the guy who was going to

799
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 2: work American Army veteran, and they busted open the windshield

800
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: in his car, sprayed him with pepper spray, took him,

801
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 2: held him for days, wasn't allowed a phone call, wasn't

802
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 2: allowed to call his lawyers, was put on suicide watch,

803
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 2: was not allowed he was covered, and pepper spray was

804
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 2: you know, being like burned by this pepper stray, not

805
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 2: allowed to clean himself off. Those are the things that

806
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 2: are happening. And so you know, I understand that you

807
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 2: have a hardline position on immigration and it's important to you,

808
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 2: and I understand that I don't agree with it, but

809
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 2: I understand that's the case. But you know, I think,

810
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: especially at this point, you can't really claim the man

811
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 2: mantle of a popular mandate when you've seen such a

812
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: backlash against what all of this looks like.

813
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: So concept okay, but sit with that conceptually, so then

814
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: when it in is unpopular, I should be able to

815
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: demand that he stopped. He's not going to stop. Like,

816
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: that's not how government by pole fee out.

817
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 2: I mean, here's the thing that it's like.

818
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: Can we would just have three months, you know, a

819
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 1: policy cycles? It doesn't work that way. The system is

820
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: literally designed so that you can get elected and then

821
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: you can do something about it in four years people

822
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: will get to vote and they can choose.

823
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: What world they want of what the something is does

824
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 2: kind of matter, you know, if you're going to like, Okay,

825
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,240
Speaker 2: we're going to we're going to beef up the FBI

826
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,760
Speaker 2: and we're going to do investigations into you know, criminal

827
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 2: undocumented networks and we're going to have these cases and

828
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 2: we're going to take them down. In fact, what we

829
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 2: see in the opposite is him like making deals with

830
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 2: m Kelly to let down a bunch of gang leaders.

831
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 2: Like that's the reality of what's going on here. And

832
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 2: we're going to go after the you know, the person

833
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: who actually was going to their court hearing and is

834
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 2: following the process, and we're just going to snatch them up,

835
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 2: or we're going to you know, we're going to take

836
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 2: you because we don't like what you said about Charlie Kirker,

837
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 2: but and you said about Palistine or just because you

838
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 2: happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

839
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 2: I mean, they truly are you know, reaking have in

840
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: these communities.

841
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: So when we talk about so I'll give you the

842
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: Charlie kirk thing is a perfect example. And you guys

843
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: are gonna cover on the Friday Show. But yeah, for me,

844
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: one of those guys, So I conceptually I have to

845
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, this is a this is a free

846
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: speech problem.

847
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

848
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: One of those guys though, he talked about white trash people,

849
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: one of the people who posted that, and I go,

850
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 1: you know what, man, fuck you, Why are you in

851
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: our country and you're insulting our own citizens? That's I mean,

852
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: And that's where I guess liberals just don't have that

853
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: in them. It's like, you come here and you're going

854
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: to insult the people who live here.

855
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 2: Go, difference between you get the fuck out of here.

856
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 2: There's a difference between your emotional reaction and your intellectual

857
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: understanding of the way that is an infringement on people's

858
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 2: First Amendment rights. And yes, immigrants do have free speech

859
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: rights as well, but we've also seen the way that

860
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 2: this government is does not keep these infringements. Just with

861
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 2: the immigrant.

862
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,959
Speaker 1: I'm giving you the example because that I mean, let's

863
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: take a poll, sholawisnins. We're so interested in polling. Should

864
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 1: people who think that white people live in our country?

865
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 1: Are white trash be allowed to live here? Most people say.

866
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,399
Speaker 2: No, there's people here in this country already who think

867
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 2: that like that there's you know, poor people are white

868
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 2: trash and guess what, it really is offensive. But you know,

869
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 2: in other instances like you're an offensive speech whatever, like

870
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 2: stop pearl clutching. You know, the point of the pearl,

871
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: the point of First Amendment speech is like it protects

872
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: you when things.

873
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 1: Are you say that I'm not going to say you

874
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: should be like a choice.

875
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: To let me have those rights is because there are

876
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 2: going to be instances where the majority is a post right.

877
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: But we don't want to deny people their rights just

878
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: based on like a mob mentality in the moment of

879
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 2: what we emotionally feel. So you know, that's why these

880
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 2: fights can be difficult but are important. But you know,

881
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 2: if you don't mind, I would like to show some

882
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 2: of the you know something to in Chicago because I think,

883
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 2: like this is potentially there is more and more backlash.

884
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 2: The Chicago seems to be the hottest at this point.

885
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 2: There's more and more backlash just from the community to

886
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,959
Speaker 2: what's going on in Chicago. And so let me show

887
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 2: you this one instant instance that really turned into you know,

888
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 2: quite a you know, hot situation. Let's put let's show

889
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 2: E three please, So here you can see a white

890
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 2: vehicle that's the Ice vehicle, ramming this red vehicle in

891
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 2: a community in a you know, random neighborhood in Chicago,

892
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 2: and then they get out and they make chase and

893
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 2: allegedly these three people that they make chase of are undocumented.

894
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: And then you have people from the community, and we

895
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 2: could put you four up on the screen. Hundreds of

896
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: people come out of their houses because this accident has

897
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: just happened, because you know, Ice rammed this vehicle. Hundreds

898
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 2: of people come out and it turns into you know,

899
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 2: it turns into a chaotic situation. So this is from

900
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 2: the Chicago Sun Times. New York Times covered as well

901
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 2: as other outlets. Do they said, Feds ram suv after

902
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 2: chase down residential street in Chicago, then tear gas the crowd,

903
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 2: and we could show some of what this looks like.

904
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 2: This is E five. We can put this up on

905
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 2: the screen. So this is again similar to when we

906
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 2: covered before. I think what's important E five. Guys, go

907
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: ahead and put up the vo I think what's important

908
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 2: here To realize is this was not like an organized protest.

909
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 2: These are just random community people and maybe there were

910
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 2: some activists who after this all start to unfold, come

911
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 2: to the scene. You've got elderly people there were you know,

912
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 2: was at least one like baby in the crowd, and

913
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 2: then what the What they say is that people start

914
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 2: throwing stuff and they started tear gassing. They've been using

915
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 2: tear gas quite indiscriminately around schools. We saw the pastor

916
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 2: who was tear gassed, and Chicago PD who had shown

917
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 2: up to try to de escalate here and separate the

918
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 2: crowd from the federal agents. They actually got tear gassed

919
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 2: in this as well. You had one person with like

920
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 2: a baby in a carrier has to run away, and

921
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 2: tear gas is very particularly dangerous for children in particular.

922
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 2: And there's a couple of key things that I want

923
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 2: to point out here, just again on the theme of

924
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: like you cannot trust what this government is telling you.

925
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 2: They initially said that the immigrants had rammed the ICE agents.

926
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 2: You can see from the video they are the ones

927
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 2: who intentionally caused this accident. This is apparently a law

928
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 2: enforcement tactic. Familiar with this, but a law enforcement tactic

929
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 2: to stop vehicles, and it's banned by most police departments

930
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 2: because it's extremely dangerous and has caused a lot of

931
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 2: fatal accidents. So they're executing this extremely dangerous maneuver, then

932
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 2: they lie about it, and then even they picked up,

933
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 2: they arrested a few of the people that had gathered there,

934
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 2: and they said that they had, you know, assaulted the offictruments,

935
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 2: throwing at them, throwing things at them, etc. But then

936
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 2: they also released them without charges. So you know, we've

937
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,479
Speaker 2: had other instances where they claim this woman that they shot,

938
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 2: they said, oh, she had a semi automatic weapon and

939
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 2: you know, she was trying to threaten us, et cetera.

940
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 2: And that turned out to not be accurate as well.

941
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 2: So they also have just been caught in a number

942
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 2: of instances where they will just lie about the scene

943
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:58,760
Speaker 2: and the way things ultimately unfold.

944
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: Again, I'm really not denying any of this. I'm not

945
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 1: saying they haven't lied. I basically, have you noticed me

946
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 1: defending the government since Seacott? Okay, all right, since since

947
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: we saw that the most of the people who said

948
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: were gang members. I'm not sitting here saying that the

949
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,439
Speaker 1: apartment building was full of trendy aragua. I don't believe

950
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: them either, Okay. Trician McLachlan. Most of the time, she

951
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: doesn't say, tell the truth. From what I could tell,

952
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: she's the lady who's the Department of Homeland Security spokesperson,

953
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: A number of her stories have collapsed. I am not

954
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 1: denying it whatsoever. I will say this kind of gets

955
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 1: to our earlier debate or whatever about Chicago. I mean

956
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: everyone's focused on them. I mean, who's bringing a baby

957
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: to a protest? I mean it seems a little bit crazy,

958
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:35,439
Speaker 1: don't you think? Well, I don't.

959
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 2: And it's like, you know the circumstance, because I mean,

960
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 2: this was this just like unfolded in this community.

961
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: So you bring I mean, I have a I don't know.

962
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: I'm not taking They have been.

963
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: In the area, and you know, the traffic was stopped,

964
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 2: so I'm not sure why they were.

965
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: Okay, But implicit kind of what you said gets to, oh,

966
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: they shouldn't fire tear gas if there's a baby around.

967
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: I remember, See this is the problem. I've covered the

968
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: ship for so long. I remember when illegals would bring

969
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: their kids to the border, and then people would get

970
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: upset whenever they would get interdicted, and they go, what

971
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: does that incentive say? Bring your kids, bring your kids

972
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: with you, and you can't do anything about it. You

973
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: think you're so sick of this emotional black miling.

974
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: But do you think that the use of tear goss

975
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 2: has been appropriate?

976
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know on a case by case basis.

977
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 1: And this is really more belies the point broadly about everything.

978
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: It seems to be framed, in my opinion at least

979
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: as these people should just be allowed to live here.

980
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 1: And it seems in general, having covered this again for

981
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 1: over a decade, what possible enforcement is acceptable to the

982
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 1: liberal conscious, Basically nothing remain in Mexico was cruel. Then

983
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: we let them come in here. The only acceptable solution

984
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: if you keep them in prison. Oh no, that's cruel too.

985
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: So they need a work visa. They need to be

986
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: able to go around here. If they skip their asylum,

987
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 1: oh those poor people, they skip their hearing. Even though

988
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: they did it, it would be cruel to go and

989
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: get them. So do you see how the permission structure

990
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,479
Speaker 1: has risen? And anytime a liberal mob creates violence, riot

991
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: is a voice of the unheard, and they don't deserve

992
00:45:58,280 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: to be prosecuted.

993
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 2: And everything that line in Chicago and in Portland like

994
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 2: la you could make you know, there were there was

995
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 2: like a hot protest before the National Guard searched in.

996
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 2: But Chicago was a lot more peaceful before these people

997
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: showed up. Chicago is much more peaceful. There were not

998
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 2: there were not riots, There were not even major protests.

999
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 2: And so, you know, if your concern is a lack

1000
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 2: of chaos and law and order, this is the exact

1001
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 2: opposite of what you would ultimately want.

1002
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:28,280
Speaker 1: And so and I checked.

1003
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 2: I just think it's I just think it's such a

1004
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 2: strong man to say, well, you wouldn't want any enforcement.

1005
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, well we could argue about what would

1006
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 2: be what would be appropriate, but can we all say

1007
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 2: that this is not appropriate, that this is not an

1008
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 2: acceptable way to go about it. You know that, you

1009
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 2: know we've got this uh Walgreens, you know, chasing people

1010
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 2: down in Walgreens and throwing them on the ground who

1011
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 2: are US citizens, just because they happened to you know,

1012
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 2: be in the wrong place, that the wrong tile. Like,

1013
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 2: can we say that mass you know, out military officers

1014
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 2: roaming this and terrorizing random people and crashing into cars

1015
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 2: and shooting people, that this is not the way to

1016
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,439
Speaker 2: do it, And then we can talk about what would

1017
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:08,879
Speaker 2: be the right way to do it. But I don't

1018
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 2: think it should be so hard to say this is

1019
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 2: not acceptable, and that is this is an issue not

1020
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 2: just for immigrants, but again for all of us and

1021
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 2: for these communities in particular being impacted. And it's not

1022
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 2: a one off. This is part of a plan. This

1023
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 2: is what they want to do, and they're expanding this

1024
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 2: to other cities because this is, you know, part of

1025
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 2: their project of consolidating control and scaring people.

1026
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: Basically, so I can easily say, just like you did

1027
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 1: about criminals, like yes, I think it's bad. I'm merely

1028
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 1: pointing out that every level of enforcement is cruel and unusual.

1029
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: The only acceptable things.

1030
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 2: Just don't know why you have to dodge light like

1031
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 2: it's not a dog. It is, of course it is.

1032
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: I'm trying to put you into the personality in the

1033
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: mind of people who share my politics are currently in

1034
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 1: the government. Okay, I'm not even necessarily justifying it. I'm

1035
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: explaining to you how it happened and how it's a

1036
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: serious political constituency. Actually, that's why they don't give a

1037
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 1: shit about Whenever they see these videos, remain in Max

1038
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: go is cruel. Then whenever you're there, come over here.

1039
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: And you put him in prison, that's cruel too. The

1040
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: only acceptable solution is to let him loose, give him

1041
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: a work visa. If you go and get him in

1042
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: any criminal way, it's cruel, it's fascism. And so you

1043
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: see the rat rhetorical ladder, so that we start to

1044
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 1: climb up here and then when you violently riot across

1045
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 1: the country actual fascism.

1046
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 2: Though, okay, we should be able to say this is

1047
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 2: not acceptable. And regardless of what the Libs did that

1048
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 2: you didn't like, they are grown ups. We'll have a

1049
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 2: lot of power and control. And by the way, Stephen

1050
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 2: Miller is running this and he's a total sadistic psycho

1051
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 2: who even Trump says is like wild white nationalists, and

1052
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 2: he's in control of this. And I don't think that

1053
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 2: it would matter what the Libs did, because he has

1054
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 2: an ideological project that he has been trying to effectuate

1055
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 2: his entire life. So I don't know that the Libs

1056
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: are really to blame for the existence of Stephen Miller.

1057
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: Well, well, actually he's from California and he was radicalized

1058
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,240
Speaker 1: by illegal politics, so I will say that, but actually,

1059
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 1: if you take it a little bit further, I don't

1060
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: know I just think that your desire to try and

1061
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: talk about this in a vacuum in the same way

1062
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: that if I were to try and talk about every

1063
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: legal immigrant who rape somebody in a vacuum ignores very

1064
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:12,720
Speaker 1: important political contexts. On the political violence and chaos front,

1065
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: everything was fine with it when people are burning, rioting

1066
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 1: and looting. That was all MLK quotes galore. And you know,

1067
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: even on the Charlie Kirk thing, I was thinking about

1068
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: this earlier when everyone was like, Oh, it's bad that

1069
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 1: we're being forced to mourn. How many times do I

1070
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 1: have a packed George Floyd's face and have crowds of

1071
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: people tell me I have to kneel for eight minutes

1072
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: in whatever seconds, They had no problem with state mourning,

1073
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 1: demanding me and my life and everybody around me, Like,

1074
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: do you see how that's going to drive people to

1075
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: a very very different place whenever you have that level

1076
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: of cultural and governmental like actual trying to control of

1077
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: your life for over a decade. And then same on

1078
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 1: the immigration question, where every time they try to do

1079
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: something about it called nazi and fascists, some of them

1080
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: are just going to say fuck it, let's go. And

1081
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 1: that's part of what you know. I do think that

1082
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: that bears responsibility because things don't happen in a vacuum.

1083
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 2: Okay, but they just they just personal agency talk like

1084
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: normally you're so fast to get, you know, ascribe people

1085
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 2: personal agency. Where is it for these people?

1086
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 1: I just I said it's bad. I mean, yeah, absolutely, it's.

1087
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 2: Always got to be couched in. Yeah, but the Libs yeah,

1088
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 2: but blm yeah, but gavenusom Yeah, it's like, why can't

1089
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 2: we Why can't you ascribe the same level of personal

1090
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 2: agency to these very powerful individuals who are have put

1091
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 2: you know, extensive plans in place and who You're right,

1092
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 2: I do think we shouldn't talk about this in the vacuum.

1093
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 2: I think we should talk about it as part of

1094
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 2: an effort at totalitarian control and achieving a one party state. Now,

1095
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 2: you may think that they're too incompetent to be able

1096
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 2: to pull that off. That may be the case, but

1097
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 2: that is in fact what they're trying to pull off.

1098
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 2: And so that's the other part of this that you know,

1099
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 2: I think needs to be brought into the picture, is

1100
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 2: that the National Guard surge and all of the federal

1101
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 2: agents in some ways, the other federal agencies because they're

1102
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 2: able to do more, are more of a threat into

1103
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 2: these cities. The militarization of regular law enforcement. This is

1104
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: part of a broader plan that is being effectuated by

1105
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 2: this government. And I really don't give a shit at

1106
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 2: this point what Joe Biden did or what some liberal

1107
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 2: did in twenty eighteen that you were unhappy about, because

1108
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 2: these are the people who have power now, and I

1109
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 2: don't know why can't we can't just like deal with

1110
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 2: the current existing threat and then yes, we can talk

1111
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 2: about the root called we can think about how to

1112
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 2: go in a different direction that's going to create an

1113
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 2: immigration solution. It's more palatable for people so we don't

1114
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 2: end up in the extremes. I am down with all

1115
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,840
Speaker 2: of that, But at the moment, the thing that we

1116
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 2: need to focus on is what's happening right now with

1117
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 2: this government. What they're doing and what their planning.

1118
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:39,879
Speaker 1: I have no a problem with, and we just did right.

1119
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 1: We'll focus on it for certain, even with the National

1120
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: Guard and a lot, but you know, I don't think, frankly,

1121
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: saying a totalitarian one party state is happening is all

1122
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 1: that useful. Whenever we live here in Washington, DC, you

1123
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: and I are, you know, recording just fine. There's a

1124
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 1: bunch of idiots who are picking up trash down at

1125
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: I didn't mean that, but I mean the people who

1126
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: are commanding them, or idiots will put them in charge

1127
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: of picking up trash. Yes, we're walking around. So the

1128
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 1: bifurcation of the reality and then the you know the

1129
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: reality of what's actually happening, and then yes, the deployment

1130
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: in some cases seems like important context to me, Like,

1131
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: nobody listen if they seize the ballot boxes or what

1132
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: did Michael Moore wants to say on our show that

1133
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: if they're going to go and seize the ballot boxes

1134
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 1: and unironically rig the election. I'm with you. I'll even

1135
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: promise you I will take to the street for real.

1136
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 2: I actually will something short of that.

1137
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 1: That's also like what I mean, Like we're about to

1138
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: argue about the VR. It's like, yeah, you don't like that.

1139
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 1: It's going to get struck down by Supreme Court. Sorry,

1140
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 1: that's within the political mechanism.

1141
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 2: That's not about trying to criminalize, like dissenting from Trump

1142
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 2: at all, like using the irs they're targeting. So they've

1143
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 2: pulled the funding from blue states during the shutdown again

1144
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 2: to try to cripple any sort of democratic descent and governance,

1145
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 2: you know, chilling speech, policing, comedians, monologues, right, making it

1146
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 2: so that you can't you can't be here if you

1147
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 2: don't like Charlie Kirk.

1148
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I objected to some of that that you're listen.

1149
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: But it looks even on the demo rape again, nobody

1150
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 1: wants to hear this. Obama actually set that up under

1151
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: the twenty thirteen shutdown, the executive the executive branch's ability

1152
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: to pull funding into at the total discretion to distribute

1153
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: funds from which he wants.

1154
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 2: Has anyone ever has anyone ever denied red state funded

1155
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 2: no right right? And so at a certain like where

1156
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 2: is the line for you? Does it really have to

1157
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 2: be they seize the ballot boxes, like it has to

1158
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 2: go that far before you see the way the country

1159
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,959
Speaker 2: is being like the rights that we've enjoyed are being

1160
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,919
Speaker 2: taken away, and it's being turned and weaponized, and they

1161
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:42,399
Speaker 2: are like again, whether or not they can succeed, it's

1162
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 2: very clear what the plan is. The plan is we

1163
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 2: want to make it so there basically is no opposition,

1164
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 2: so that we have control. So that they can't win

1165
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 2: the House, you know, so that they're they want to

1166
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 2: go after Act Blue so that you know, any sort

1167
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 2: of fundraising is very difficult for Democrats. They want to

1168
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 2: go after individual do'n so that you're too scared to

1169
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 2: give your money to democratic causes. That is the plan,

1170
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 2: And that they also want to change the composition of

1171
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,319
Speaker 2: the electorate so that you know, the people that vote

1172
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 2: for them. They're changing the asylum refugee program to favor

1173
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,800
Speaker 2: like right wingers coming from Europe.

1174
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean that's listen, I'm with you. I

1175
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:21,399
Speaker 1: think that's not.

1176
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 2: All part and parcel of the same plan. So I

1177
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 2: know it sounds wild to say, but that is in fact.

1178
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 2: I mean, you don't think that's Steven Miller's goal, of

1179
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:29,719
Speaker 2: course it is, No.

1180
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 1: See, I genuinely don't. I actually think it's politics, and

1181
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 1: I think that seems to be our fundamental disagreement. And

1182
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 1: in some cases I think he's an ideological actor. No,

1183
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: I said he's an ideological Yeah, I didn't think that

1184
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:44,399
Speaker 1: his plan is a totalitarian, one party state. I genuinely don't,

1185
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 1: And that seems to be the premise of our disagreement.

1186
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 1: In some cases, what you're talking about, is that many

1187
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: liberals are so accustomed, let's say, on the nonprofit status.

1188
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: It's like, well, yeah, it is. I'm not defending per

1189
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,319
Speaker 1: se in the way the Trump administration is going to

1190
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 1: do it, but like, let's be honest, is it not

1191
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:03,240
Speaker 1: also been they fantasy like to investigate the Koch brothers

1192
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: or to go in to look into right wing tea

1193
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: party funding network. Like this is a long time normalized

1194
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 1: rhetoric in terms of democratic administrations. If they weren't, yes, no, absolutely,

1195
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: it's not. No, it absolutely is.

1196
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 2: In terms of their if anyone said that they should

1197
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 2: like you should like criminalize Republican donors.

1198
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: Well no, okay, I don't think they said criminalize the

1199
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:23,399
Speaker 1: Republican donors, but they said that they flirt with the life.

1200
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: I actually even agree in terms of let's say, in churches,

1201
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of their political activity. I'm just saying, though,

1202
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 1: if you look at it, in some cases, all Trump

1203
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 1: does is say thing. All Trump really does in some

1204
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: cases is say the quietest part out loud. For much

1205
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 1: of the way that the political system has acted, there's

1206
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: legitimate well no, but see this just seems to be

1207
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: our core. I guess disagreement here in everything you interpret

1208
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: as a genuine crushing like what would it take for

1209
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 1: me to say, yeah, this is it? Yes on ironically

1210
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: like rigging the election, like actually rigging straight up the election,

1211
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 1: or stopping the election, or seizing ballot boxes. Within that,

1212
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 1: I mean, considering how much US history and all line

1213
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: is there, it's pretty within the contre's.

1214
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:06,439
Speaker 2: A theoretical trappings of some bullshit elections than anything else.

1215
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 2: Is fine, But why think about what's not like me

1216
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 2: or Tish James or Adam Shift. I like Leticia James,

1217
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 2: the other two I don't care for. But now we've

1218
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 2: got Okay, the DOJ is going to be my personal

1219
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 2: like hit squad. I'm going to go out. I'm going

1220
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 2: to gin up charges against whoever I want to. I'm

1221
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,839
Speaker 2: going to target. So you've got the DOJ acting now

1222
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 2: you funds withheld from Blues states. It is an all

1223
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 2: out war on the opposition. That's what it is. And

1224
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 2: in a way that is truly different. And yes, some

1225
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 2: Democrat might have said something or the other, we have

1226
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 2: never seen in our lifetimes the complete weaponization of government

1227
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 2: against not just political elites, but against the entire constituency

1228
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 2: of the opposition party, and that is what they're that

1229
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 2: is what they're doing and what they have plans to expand.

1230
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 1: So we have to even strow to standing by. So

1231
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 1: this will be my last word, but my point. So

1232
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: you choose to see that what I choose to see

1233
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: is a federal grand jury throwing out the ham Sandwich thing,

1234
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: making sure or saying the Chicago jury is saying that

1235
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:08,919
Speaker 1: much of what is is saying is bullshit. The Los

1236
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: Angeles jury throwing that I'm like, that is still within

1237
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 1: the confines of the system. That's not a theoretical election,

1238
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 1: that's actually legal justification. By the way, James Comy's being

1239
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 1: tried in this place where I live, I could guarantee

1240
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: you he's being found not guilty one. Now, I mean

1241
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: that doesn't say that he hasn't been harassed by the state.

1242
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to diminish that. That's really really bad, right, Okay,

1243
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: But that's not the same thing as being thrown into

1244
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: seacot without due process. Yes, a multimillionaire okay, well they're

1245
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: all really well, but it's not the same thing though.

1246
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: It's actually not is if a multi millionaire can contest

1247
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: his defense and then can get released on bond and

1248
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 1: also be found not guilty. You don't live in.

1249
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 2: Fashion, you know. I mean, you know that the point

1250
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 2: of that is not just about comy. The point of

1251
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 2: that is that Trump's enemies, anyone who would speak on

1252
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 2: against him, are put on notice, we will do this

1253
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 2: to you. That's the point of those actions. It's the

1254
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 2: same thing I mean we objected vociferously to when like

1255
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 2: a tax auditor or whatever showed up in Matt Taiemi's

1256
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 2: house after we're on the Twitter files. Right, Yes, and

1257
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 2: this is being done, you know, and that I don't know,

1258
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 2: you know, was a legitimate or not. We certainly were

1259
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 2: very uncomfortable with that. Now this is being done explicitly

1260
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 2: in a hole of government way. So I would just

1261
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 2: say that I see your ham Sandwich grand jury, and

1262
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 2: I raise you a Supreme Court that's allowing things like

1263
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 2: Kavanaugh stops, it's allowing recisions, that's allowing the complete you know,

1264
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 2: destruction of government agencies. That's allowing this administration to do

1265
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 2: whatever they want. Because that is a much more powerful

1266
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 2: institution than you know, one or two grand juries here

1267
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 2: or there that you know, check some of the abuses.

1268
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 1: I think that's a fair point. I just I mean, again,

1269
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: based on your recisions, thing is kind of baked in

1270
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 1: is that you agree with the race thing. So we'll

1271
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 1: just put that to the sidecause we're going to talk.

1272
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 2: About it recisions. I'm talking about the funding.

1273
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, yeah, a recision of the fund. Okay. So

1274
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 1: within that, let's say that on the front of where

1275
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 1: you think that things are going to go the worst

1276
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: because I would say that the worst of the true

1277
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: totalitarianism means that dissent itself does not exist, is that

1278
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 1: criminalization has no pretense in the legal or the judicial system.

1279
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 1: I just don't see it. I mean, I definitely do

1280
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 1: think that we're that we Trump has an enemy's list. Yeah, absolutely,

1281
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: I'm with you, I agree, but it's a big it's

1282
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 1: a big, big difference again in my opinion, between that

1283
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: and actually being thrown in jail no pretense, you know,

1284
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: so show trial like in Moscow or something like that.

1285
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: I would say, similarly with the Supreme Court Kavanaugh stuff,

1286
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: you can agree with it. There's a lot of shit

1287
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court that does that I disagree with, but

1288
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 1: that's not the same thing as saying that it was

1289
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 1: declared by executive fiats. Some of the recisions have not

1290
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: been held up. You know, Lisa Cook is still on

1291
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve Board. Like, it's not exactly like it's

1292
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 1: one hundred percent of what you want, maybe a lot

1293
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: more than you would like, but that's very different in

1294
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 1: terms of how the system is operating. And that's part

1295
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 1: of why I'm like, yeah, I just think it's generally

1296
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 1: I would say it's out of the confines of modern history,

1297
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: definitely not out of the confines of American history. And

1298
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: that's part of why I look at all this, in

1299
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 1: particular Parrot, with some of the things that we've all

1300
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 1: gone through, and I was like, yes, Trump is extraordinary

1301
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: to the current mind. And I don't defend or even

1302
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: frankly like I would say almost eighty percent of a

1303
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 1: lot of what the White House has done. I think

1304
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 1: it's grotesque. I think it has betrayed much of the

1305
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: spirit of what people voted on. And in fact, I

1306
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: think what discussed me the most really about it is

1307
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: a lot of the lying is because you know, it's

1308
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 1: not just Trump. Of course Trump was a liar, but

1309
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 1: the people around him actually made assurances both privately but

1310
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 1: also really publicly about the way things were going to go,

1311
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 1: and then to just to flip on a dime like that.

1312
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 1: I am much more concerned at a democratic level with that.

1313
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 1: And because I don't see that the voters, I mean,

1314
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a rare exception. There's most people whose

1315
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: support are just going to go along with everything. And

1316
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 1: that actually probably scares me, maybe equally to what you are,

1317
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: because it shows me that the stuff itself doesn't even matter. Yeah,

1318
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: and I think see you talk about fake elections, That's

1319
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 1: what I think is fake, is that the mind is

1320
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 1: so controlled by so many of these people with call

1321
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 1: the personality that you can literally flip on something that

1322
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: you said that you were going to do and they're

1323
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 1: going to do anything about it or create any sort

1324
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 1: of democratic check. So in a way, I almost I

1325
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: view that as one of the more dangerous elements of MEGA.

1326
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 1: But we have let's get I apologize to the audience

1327
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 1: and to David Sirota. So let's let's go ahead, get

1328
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: him in here.

1329
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 2: All right, At long last, much anticipated we are joined

1330
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 2: now by David Sarotta, of course is a founder of

1331
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 2: lever News among many other things, and is out with

1332
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 2: a new book. David welcome, Thank you, thanks for having me. Yeah,

1333
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:35,800
Speaker 2: of course, So let's put the book jacket up on

1334
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 2: the screen here. Guys need to make sure to check

1335
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 2: this out. You guys have been doing phenomenal work on

1336
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 2: corruption in America. In particular. The headline the title of

1337
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 2: the book is Masterplan, The Hidden Plot to legalize Corruption

1338
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 2: in America. David, let's start with this news that's incredibly

1339
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 2: relevant to put up three up on the screen here

1340
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,959
Speaker 2: about one of the cases that's going before the Supreme Court,

1341
01:01:58,000 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 2: or actually is it two cases that are going before

1342
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court? That listen, we already don't have the

1343
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 2: greatest campaign finance system. There already aren't a lot of limits,

1344
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 2: but there's an effort afoot to try to eliminate what

1345
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 2: meager limits we do have. So explain that to the

1346
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 2: audience for us.

1347
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 5: So we're at the fifteen year anniversary of Citizens United

1348
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 5: and Citizens United was the culmination of this movement that

1349
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 5: we document in master Plan, and I should say we

1350
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 5: call it the Hidden Plot. And people think they know

1351
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 5: this story, but trust me, you do not know the

1352
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 5: story of how corruption was legalized because it's been secret

1353
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 5: for decades and we uncovered all sorts of documents exposing

1354
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 5: how they wrote it down. I mean, they wrote down

1355
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 5: how they were going to deregulate the campaign finance system

1356
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 5: and weaken anti bribery laws. Americans in polls tell us

1357
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 5: that they hate the Citizens United decision. But as you

1358
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 5: allude to, the Supreme Court is literally right now going

1359
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 5: to hear a case that could dismantle whatever was left

1360
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:06,240
Speaker 5: of America's anti corruption laws after Citizens United. And it's

1361
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 5: a case spearheaded by JD. Vans. So essentially what this

1362
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 5: case would do, what JD. Vance is trying to do

1363
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 5: is say that parties, the limits on how much parties

1364
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 5: can coordinate their spending with candidates should be essentially eliminated,

1365
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 5: which the effect of that would be. The reason the

1366
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 5: rules exist is to prevent what would end up being

1367
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 5: if this happens, which is that donors could simply funnel

1368
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 5: much larger amounts of money through parties to candidates, essentially

1369
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 5: using parties as a kind of shell corporation or a

1370
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 5: pass through entity to flood much more money directly to candidates.

1371
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 5: So not even through supposedly independent super PACs. We're talking

1372
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 5: about much larger amounts of money directly into candidates. And

1373
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 5: the other case that's going on right now is a

1374
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 5: case that's trying to narrow the enforceability of anti corruption laws.

1375
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 5: This is the line of rulings like the Bob McDonald ruling,

1376
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 5: the Bridgegate rulings, so further narrowing it. There's an appeal

1377
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 5: at the Court that cites remember the story of Donald

1378
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 5: Trump soliciting a billion dollars reportedly of campaign contributions from

1379
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 5: oil executives in exchange for promising favors. This appeal at

1380
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court cites that situation to say, look at

1381
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 5: this pay to play culture is now so pervasive that

1382
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 5: essentially we need to make it unprosecutable because the pay

1383
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 5: to play culture is now essentially what politics is. Situation

1384
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 5: exactly exactly, I mean, it literally says, imagine if prosecutors

1385
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 5: prosecuted this kind of quid pro quote corruption, this would

1386
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 5: essentially criminalize all of politics.

1387
01:04:57,120 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 1: And that's where we are. Well, you also talk about

1388
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: ferraris there in this article? Can you expand on that?

1389
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, So that's part of the case. That's one of

1390
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 5: the cases in this line of cases to weaken the

1391
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:15,440
Speaker 5: enforceability of anti corruption laws and anti bribery laws. That

1392
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 5: quote from John Roberts where he says, you know, this

1393
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 5: case is not having to deal with the tawdry details

1394
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 5: of ferraris and rolexes. It's about the and this is

1395
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 5: his words, the over zealous and I'm paraphrasing here, the

1396
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 5: over zealous enforcement by federal prosecutors of anti bribery laws.

1397
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 5: That's the court's posture here. And it's worth noting that

1398
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 5: the Court has been issuing these rulings making it harder

1399
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 5: and harder to prosecute bribery, while certain members of the

1400
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 5: Court are accepting lavish gifts from billionaires with business before

1401
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 5: the court. So in a certain sense, they kind of

1402
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 5: have an interest in making sure that bribery and this

1403
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 5: kind of corruption is is unprosecutable.

1404
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 2: That is such an important point and one that doesn't

1405
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:08,919
Speaker 2: go remarked upon enough. I did want to give people

1406
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 2: a little bit of good news here though, because I

1407
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:15,480
Speaker 2: saw you were talking on Twitter about how the commonly

1408
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 2: held belief is like, well, after Citizens United, there's not

1409
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 2: a lot we can do about campaign finance require constitutional amendment.

1410
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 2: We all know how likely that is to happen. But

1411
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 2: you've actually been doing some investigating and there may be

1412
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:29,439
Speaker 2: actually some ways that individual states can help curb the

1413
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 2: corrupt influence of money in their politics.

1414
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, so this is actually some good news. In Montana,

1415
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 5: luminaries of both parties are pushing a ballot measure that

1416
01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 5: takes a look at how to deal with money in

1417
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 5: politics in a different way than standard campaign contribution limits

1418
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:50,480
Speaker 5: or disclosure requirements. The long and the short of it

1419
01:06:50,560 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 5: is is that the idea that corporations are people that

1420
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 5: are entitled to the rights to free speech, with money

1421
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:01,720
Speaker 5: being defined as speed. The whole idea that corporations are

1422
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 5: people stems from state and corporation laws that deems them

1423
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 5: or grants them the same powers as people under the law.

1424
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 5: The Citizens United case, all the campaign finance cases rely

1425
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 5: on those state and corporation laws. So what's happening in

1426
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 5: Montana is there's a ballot measure to say, Okay, if

1427
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 5: that's the case, then we can change our state laws

1428
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 5: to grant corporations certain powers but not grant them other powers.

1429
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 5: Legal scholars will tell you the corporations under the law

1430
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 5: are artificial entities created by state laws, which means, and

1431
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 5: we've done this in the past, way back where we said,

1432
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 5: you know, corporations have this as part of their charter.

1433
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 5: They have this power in this power, and they don't

1434
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 5: have this power in Montana. What they're proposing to do

1435
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 5: is say they have all the powers that they have,

1436
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 5: but they do not have the power to spend in elections.

1437
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 5: And here's the thing. I know people listening to this

1438
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,200
Speaker 5: probably saying, well, God, doesn't that mean that a company

1439
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 5: could just like move out Montana and move to Delaware

1440
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 5: and then do what it wants. Well, the answer is

1441
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 5: not in inside the state, because all state laws have

1442
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 5: a provision that essentially say, if you're an out of

1443
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:15,200
Speaker 5: state company doing business in our state, you must comply

1444
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 5: with the basic laws and powers that we grant to

1445
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 5: corporations in state. So the point is Montana doing this

1446
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 5: can change its situation. For Montana. It doesn't have to

1447
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 5: wait for other states to move forward with this. And

1448
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 5: of course then you extend it, you say, well, listen,

1449
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:34,640
Speaker 5: Blue states that are more inclined to do this right

1450
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:36,439
Speaker 5: now don't have to wait to do it on their ballot.

1451
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 5: They could do it through their legislature. So I think

1452
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:42,800
Speaker 5: what they're looking at in Montana is a template. And

1453
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 5: the thing is that the Supreme Court just recently and

1454
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 5: over many decades continues to have ruled that how corporations

1455
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 5: are treated flows from state law. And my point in

1456
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 5: saying that is is that this is a way to

1457
01:08:56,600 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 5: use Supreme Court precedent to deal with the problem in

1458
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:03,480
Speaker 5: a way that the Supreme Court has previously and repeatedly

1459
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 5: said is within what it considers okay under the law.

1460
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 1: Really interesting, So, David, how does this connect to the

1461
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:11,759
Speaker 1: upcoming midterm elections?

1462
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:15,799
Speaker 5: Well, look, I think it's not. It's on the ballot

1463
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 5: in the midterm elections, so I think, you know, it's

1464
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 5: not going to be in place before the midterm elections.

1465
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 5: But look, I think the Democrats have a big problem

1466
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 5: in the midterm elections on the corruption issue. And I

1467
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:31,680
Speaker 5: wrote about this recently, which is to say that in

1468
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 5: twenty sixteen, the last poll before the election showed Donald

1469
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 5: Trump losing on every issue except for corruption, if you

1470
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:44,679
Speaker 5: can believe it here, in twenty twenty five, the most

1471
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 5: recent Reuters poll showed the Republicans have a similar lead

1472
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:53,839
Speaker 5: on the issue of corruption as they did in twenty sixteen.

1473
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:56,800
Speaker 5: Who do you trust to deal with corruption? The Republicans

1474
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 5: are actually leading the Democrats and I think the Demo

1475
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 5: that's a huge problem for the midterms because clearly it

1476
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 5: means the Democrats have not made a forceful case about

1477
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 5: how they are whether or not they are serious about

1478
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,200
Speaker 5: cleaning up corruption. And I think part of the problem

1479
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 5: here is that a lot of their anti corruption argument

1480
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 5: is a purely anti Trump argument, and it doesn't it's

1481
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 5: not willing to concede the system is corrupt. And if

1482
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:26,320
Speaker 5: you remember the John McCain race, I think back to

1483
01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 5: that a lot, the two thousand John McCain races where

1484
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 5: John McCain at one point almost won the Republican nomination.

1485
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 5: I would argue that the reason his anti corruption message,

1486
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 5: and it was a pure anti corruption message, the reason

1487
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:41,639
Speaker 5: it resonated was because he was willing to talk about

1488
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:44,439
Speaker 5: both parties, and I think a lot of voters saw

1489
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 5: that as you're willing to be authentic and speak honestly

1490
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 5: about the situation as opposed to just blaming one side

1491
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:53,919
Speaker 5: for the problem.

1492
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, gave him as sort of Maverick branding. Let's talk

1493
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 2: a little bit about the a little more about the midterms.

1494
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:04,679
Speaker 2: So there's this other Supreme Court case where it looks

1495
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:08,040
Speaker 2: like the Supreme Court is poised to strike down additional

1496
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:12,080
Speaker 2: aspects of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act.

1497
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:14,599
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and take a listen to Harry Enton

1498
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 2: talk about the impact that this could have our on

1499
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:18,560
Speaker 2: the midterms.

1500
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 6: Okay, so you know, if you go back six months ago,

1501
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:23,040
Speaker 6: you go back to April, k Paul, when what were

1502
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:25,520
Speaker 6: we looking at. Well, we were looking at the Democrats

1503
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 6: with a very clear shot of taking control of the

1504
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 6: US House of Representatives. According to the Calshi prediction market odds,

1505
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 6: we saw them in an eighty three percent chance.

1506
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:36,000
Speaker 7: But those odds have gone plummeting down.

1507
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 6: Now we're talking about just a sixty three percent chance,

1508
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 6: while the gopiece chances up like a rocket up like gold,

1509
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 6: up from seventeen percent to now a thirty seven percent chance.

1510
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:49,440
Speaker 6: So we'll look like a pretty clear Democrat likely Democratic

1511
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 6: win in the House come next year has become much

1512
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:54,839
Speaker 6: closer to toss up at this point, although still slightly

1513
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 6: leading Democratic.

1514
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 2: What's changed?

1515
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 6: What do you think should go back to April? Look

1516
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 6: at the generic congressional ballot. What you see you see

1517
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,000
Speaker 6: plus three Democrats in twenty twenty five. In April, you

1518
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 6: see plus three Democrats back in April of twenty seventeen.

1519
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:07,679
Speaker 6: Now jump over to this side of the screen.

1520
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 1: What happens, Well, the.

1521
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:12,280
Speaker 6: Democrats are no longer keeping pace with the pace that

1522
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:15,320
Speaker 6: they were setting back in twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen. You

1523
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 6: look back in twenty seventeen, you saw that the Democrats

1524
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 6: had leaped up to an eight point advantage. If both

1525
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 6: sides max out, we're probably looking at a GOP gain

1526
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 6: of plus seven House seats. That doesn't even take into

1527
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:30,680
Speaker 6: account the potential gutting of the VRA that is right

1528
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 6: now going to be in front of the Supreme Court.

1529
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 7: If you add that in, you would be looking, well, yes,

1530
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 7: exactly right, the Voting Rights Act. If you add that in,

1531
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 7: then you could be looking about adding ten twelve, fifteen,

1532
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 7: seventeen on top of this seven seats.

1533
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 2: See Nate ConA the New York Times analysis here and said, basically,

1534
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:53,240
Speaker 2: if Republicans really max out what they could do with

1535
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:56,559
Speaker 2: that section of the Voting Rights Act being nullified by

1536
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court, Democrats would need to win the popular

1537
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 2: vote by more than five points to even have a

1538
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 2: prayer of winning that control of the House. So talk

1539
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:07,880
Speaker 2: a little bit about that case and what you know

1540
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 2: some of the details there and what you think the

1541
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:09,960
Speaker 2: impact could be.

1542
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, so the case is basically making it easier to gerrymander.

1543
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 5: I mean that's the top line for the especially in

1544
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 5: Republican states. It basically would say that districts that are

1545
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 5: drawn in accordance with the old Voting Rights Actor, the

1546
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:28,160
Speaker 5: existing Voting Rights Act, districts drawn to make sure there

1547
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:35,000
Speaker 5: is adequate minority representation, that that provision would essentially become

1548
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 5: unenforceable if not eliminated. And what that would mean for

1549
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 5: various districts with African American members of Congress and the like,

1550
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 5: that it would eliminate or at least Republican legislators would

1551
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 5: be empowered to eliminate more of those districts in a

1552
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 5: way that increases their chances of winning those districts. And essentially,

1553
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 5: what it would say, it would make it harder to

1554
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:05,759
Speaker 5: prove or harder to get the law enforced to say

1555
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 5: that a specific map was violating essentially the basic civil

1556
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 5: rights that were outlined in the Voting Rights Act, they

1557
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 5: would raise the threshold. So I do think it's true.

1558
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:21,720
Speaker 5: The upshot here is our Republican states with Republican legislatures

1559
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 5: and Republican governors. If this ruling comes down, are they

1560
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:29,080
Speaker 5: going to call emergency sessions to redraw their maps? I

1561
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 5: think we should assume a lot of them are. And

1562
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 5: I want to bring it back to what we reveal

1563
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:37,680
Speaker 5: in our book, which master Plan, which is Look, you

1564
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:40,639
Speaker 5: have to understand so much of this comes out of

1565
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 5: that early nineteen seventies era where you've got conservatives saying, look,

1566
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:48,400
Speaker 5: we and this is in the Powell memo, Look, we

1567
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 5: have a problem where the government has become too responsive

1568
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:56,839
Speaker 5: to what people want. This is essentially what Lewis Powell,

1569
01:14:56,920 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court justice, was arguing in the infamous Powell Memo,

1570
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 5: and what it was really saying is democracy has become

1571
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:08,519
Speaker 5: a problem for us. So we need more investment in

1572
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:13,720
Speaker 5: essentially electing who we want corporations, oligarchs and the like,

1573
01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:17,760
Speaker 5: to prevent the people from getting so much of what

1574
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:21,160
Speaker 5: they want because it's threatening our so called free market system.

1575
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 5: So you've seen that in the deregulation of campaign finance,

1576
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:28,519
Speaker 5: that's one pillar. You're now seeing it in the attempt

1577
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:32,800
Speaker 5: to change the maps, right, change the process the way

1578
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 5: we elect people. You've seen it in the attack on unions. Right,

1579
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:39,599
Speaker 5: these are the three pillars that we have to stop

1580
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:42,639
Speaker 5: the public from getting what it wants. So I look

1581
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:47,000
Speaker 5: at the redistricting stuff as one pillar of this larger

1582
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 5: plan to reduce the power of people to essentially get

1583
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:56,639
Speaker 5: what they want from government. Because the people in power

1584
01:15:56,840 --> 01:16:00,559
Speaker 5: with money don't want that. They see that response as

1585
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 5: a threat.

1586
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 1: What I found interesting after Citizens United, David is there

1587
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:06,679
Speaker 1: was a lot of talk about, you know, I think

1588
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:09,880
Speaker 1: fine correctly, about a lot of Republican billionaires who would

1589
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 1: take advantage. It ended up actually being quite bipartisan, including unions,

1590
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:17,720
Speaker 1: many others who used it much to their advantage. I

1591
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:19,799
Speaker 1: wonder if you could talk about that in the context

1592
01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 1: of you know this as well, specifically with California talking

1593
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:27,799
Speaker 1: about redistricting, and whether you see that as the acceptable balance,

1594
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 1: like what's a better end state, because I think that's

1595
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:31,000
Speaker 1: what we're trying to get at.

1596
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:34,040
Speaker 5: No, it's a fair question. Look, in my view, what

1597
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 5: California is doing on its redistricting ballot measure is a

1598
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 5: response to what the Republicans started. I think that's obvious.

1599
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:45,240
Speaker 5: Do I think it's a good thing, Like do I

1600
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 5: think an arms race of gerrymandering is a good thing. No,

1601
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 5: it's a very bad thing. Is this is where I

1602
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:55,639
Speaker 5: think we don't want to go, but it is where

1603
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:58,240
Speaker 5: we are. How to put this all back in the bottle?

1604
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 5: I mean, that's the big question. I mean, I do

1605
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 5: look to a place as an example, like New York

1606
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 5: City with Zoron Mamdani, and I say, here, here is

1607
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:13,600
Speaker 5: something we can look at as a potential solution. And

1608
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:15,240
Speaker 5: I want to be clear about what I'm saying. I'm

1609
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 5: not saying Zoron Mamdani is the solution. What I'm saying

1610
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:20,680
Speaker 5: is there's been a debate about how did Zoron Mamdani,

1611
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:25,519
Speaker 5: as an example, win a democratic primary against all of

1612
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:29,960
Speaker 5: that money in the financial and media capital of the world.

1613
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 5: Was it that he was a compelling candidate, or was

1614
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 5: it his slick ads? Was it a great message? All

1615
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:37,640
Speaker 5: of those things are important, But the thing that to

1616
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:40,639
Speaker 5: my mind that was most important was that New York

1617
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:44,360
Speaker 5: City has a system of public financing of elections which

1618
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:49,200
Speaker 5: allowed him to get enough resources to be competitive. Not

1619
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 5: enough to outspend his opponents, but enough to be competitive.

1620
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,559
Speaker 5: And I look at systems of public financing of elections

1621
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:59,479
Speaker 5: which are operating about twenty cities and a couple of states.

1622
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:03,400
Speaker 5: And I say this is a way that if you want,

1623
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:06,400
Speaker 5: I don't care if you're a Republican Democrat and conservative liberal,

1624
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:10,400
Speaker 5: if you want candidates who come from outside of the

1625
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:14,120
Speaker 5: system of private financing of donations coming in with the

1626
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 5: expectation of legislative favors, then we should be looking at

1627
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 5: those systems as a way to do that. And look,

1628
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:25,479
Speaker 5: Congress has gotten very close at various points to creating

1629
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:28,880
Speaker 5: public financing systems of elections for Congress. It was first

1630
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:31,640
Speaker 5: proposed an old idea. It was first proposed by Teddy Roosevelt.

1631
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:33,680
Speaker 5: So my point in bringing this up is, and we

1632
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 5: talked about the Montana situation, we're going to have to

1633
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 5: start thinking like way outside of the box. If you've

1634
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:42,599
Speaker 5: got jd. Vance at the Supreme Court saying we got

1635
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 5: to dismantle what's left of what was left after citizens

1636
01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 5: united of traditional old campaign finance laws, it's time to

1637
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 5: actually take a look at how do we actually change

1638
01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:57,520
Speaker 5: the entire system, change state and corporation laws, public financing

1639
01:18:57,520 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 5: of elections, Like that's where the discussion actually needs to be.

1640
01:19:01,479 --> 01:19:05,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do we get away from plutocracy and towards

1641
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:10,760
Speaker 2: something approximating like majoritarian representation, democratic representation. David, thank you

1642
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:14,760
Speaker 2: so much for your reporting. Tell people again, remind them

1643
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:16,080
Speaker 2: book title and where to find it.

1644
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:19,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's called master Plan. It's the hidden plot to

1645
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:22,439
Speaker 5: legalize corruption. Again. You may think you know this story

1646
01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:24,360
Speaker 5: like I've gotten Oh, you know, I already know everything's

1647
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:26,960
Speaker 5: like trust me, you do not know. These are never

1648
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:32,200
Speaker 5: before published documents, photos, transcripts, and you can find the

1649
01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:35,400
Speaker 5: book at levernews dot com slash book. And I just

1650
01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:38,040
Speaker 5: want to say thanks to both of you for having

1651
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:39,880
Speaker 5: us on to discuss it. And one of the things

1652
01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 5: I talk about that we talked about in the book is,

1653
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:45,960
Speaker 5: you know, the infiltration of media by the same Powell

1654
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:49,599
Speaker 5: memo billionaires and corporations. You know, we have seen that

1655
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:51,920
Speaker 5: of late or sort of a culmination of that, and

1656
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 5: independent media the rise of it right now is also

1657
01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:58,640
Speaker 5: one of those things that I look at as an

1658
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:01,519
Speaker 5: optimistic development, and you guys are really really a huge

1659
01:20:01,520 --> 01:20:01,880
Speaker 5: part of that.

1660
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 3: Wow.

1661
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:03,000
Speaker 2: Thank you, David.

1662
01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:03,280
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1663
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:05,360
Speaker 2: We feel very much the same about you and the

1664
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:07,760
Speaker 2: important work that you're doing out there. So thank you

1665
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:08,080
Speaker 2: so much.

1666
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:09,800
Speaker 1: Great to see you, David A man, Thank you, Thanks

1667
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:12,240
Speaker 1: for having me. Thanks for watching, guys, we appreciate it.

1668
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:13,720
Speaker 1: Friday Show tomorrow. We'll see you then.