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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Hannah Elliott and

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Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller.

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Speaker 2: This is Hot Pursuit coming up on today's podcast. Why

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Speaker 2: are Tesla owners leaving the brand? The reasons go beyond

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Speaker 2: what you're thinking. It's not just about Elon Musk course correction,

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Speaker 2: Porsche the latest carmaker reassessing its EV strategy, and rave

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Speaker 2: reviews for Ferrari's latest, the eight forty nine test Rosa.

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Speaker 2: But can it really justify a half million dollar price tag?

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Speaker 2: And would anyone give it a bad review?

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Speaker 1: I would give it a bad review if it was bad. True.

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Speaker 1: I don't know anybody anything.

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Speaker 2: By the way, That's what I love about you and

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Speaker 2: have always loved about you. Right, No, no joke. I

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Speaker 2: was looking at the reviews and we'll get into it

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Speaker 2: in a little bit, but I was thinking, you want

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Speaker 2: the next Ferrari, so you're not going to give this

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Speaker 2: one a bad review? But you would, Oh I would?

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Speaker 1: I don't care.

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Speaker 2: All right, that's all ahead on Hoppersuit, Welcome to the program.

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Speaker 2: Lots to get to this week, but first I want

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Speaker 2: to kick things off with Hannah's latest reporting. It's been

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Speaker 2: weeks this column has been weeks in the making of

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Speaker 2: this story has lots of lawyering and laces, and it's

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Speaker 2: all about Tasla. Yes, well we have to yeah right.

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Speaker 1: We want to make sure we get it we are

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Speaker 1: accurate and fair.

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Speaker 2: So tell us about tell us about your story first, like,

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Speaker 2: give us the headline and the gist of it before

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Speaker 2: we get into the lawyer parts.

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Speaker 1: Sure, so the headline is Elon Musk alone can't explain

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Speaker 1: Tesla's owner exodus. And the genesis of this story, honestly

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Speaker 1: was when we saw results from twenty twenty five and

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Speaker 1: saw that BYD had surpassed Tesla as the global best

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Speaker 1: bestseller of evs, and that sort of catapulted us into

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Speaker 1: looking at why is Tesla losing custom Bloomberg had some

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Speaker 1: reporting by the great Kyle Stock in twenty twenty two

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Speaker 1: that already addressed our Denver reporter, our Denver correspondent, Yes,

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Speaker 1: our man in Denver. He had written this great story

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two about how Tesla was really a

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Speaker 1: vulnerability for Portie customers and was rather polarizing, and that

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Speaker 1: was backed up by some brand loyalty studies back then

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Speaker 1: and also anecdotally with customers. So that was great reporting

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Speaker 1: for this piece. We acknowledge that, but we wanted to

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Speaker 1: really focus on people who had owned Tesla's even though

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Speaker 1: they might have been uncomfortable with Elon, or maybe they

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Speaker 1: were Elon fans, people who own them for a while

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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden just decided, no, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to renew the lease, or I'm going to

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Speaker 1: sell it or go into some other car. So this

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Speaker 1: was a pretty nuanced story about Okay, we know about Elon,

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Speaker 1: he's polarizing, we get it, But what are the other

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Speaker 1: reasons that people who especially initially loved the cars are

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Speaker 1: now leaving the brand? And it was very interesting to

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Speaker 1: talk to them, and I spoke with quite a few people,

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Speaker 1: and in the end they all said very sort of

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Speaker 1: mundane things that added up into them leaving the brand.

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Speaker 1: Is there wasn't one big, really moment. It was a

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Speaker 1: combination of factors.

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Speaker 2: But this is other than Elon Musk because surely a

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Speaker 2: number of people have said, I can't deal with his politics,

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Speaker 2: I don't like his tweeting, I think he's a racist, sexist,

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Speaker 2: bigot or whatever their issues were with him. And by

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Speaker 2: the way, I'm not saying that he is those things.

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Speaker 2: I just these are the complaints from certainly from the left. Sure,

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Speaker 2: but you're saying, in the collection of other reasons that

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Speaker 2: people would switch from Tesla to either another EV or

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Speaker 2: even to a gas vehicle. Yes, there wasn't one heavy hitter.

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Speaker 1: There's not one big thing. And we should also say, look,

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Speaker 1: there is a broader slowdown in EV's. Worldwide growth of

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Speaker 1: electric vehicles is expected to slow in twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 1: and it has slowed the previous few years, so it's

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Speaker 1: we're seeing just a gradual slowdown. Obviously, the loss of

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Speaker 1: tax credits, the end of emission waivers, there are loss

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Speaker 1: of revenues for carbon credits, diminished after market values China

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Speaker 1: in general. There are lots of things, plus the lack

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Speaker 1: of infrastructure, which we've seen. All of these have contributed

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Speaker 1: to people leaving EV's in general. That's not specific to Tesla.

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Speaker 1: But one thing that has really affected Tesla is it

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Speaker 1: has really lost its first mover advantage in two ways.

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Speaker 1: The first one is that now there are over one

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Speaker 1: hundred electric vehicles on the market today from every major

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Speaker 1: automotive and a lot of minor automotive brands. So when

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Speaker 1: Tesla debuted the Roadster in two thousand and six and

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Speaker 1: then delivered it in two thousand and eight, and when

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Speaker 1: it debuted the Modo Less in twenty twelve, it was

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Speaker 1: the only game in town. Now that is not the case.

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Speaker 1: There are so many more options and people have realized that.

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Speaker 1: They realized that if I want to drive an EV,

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Speaker 1: I don't have to stick with Tesla. The other thing

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Speaker 1: that Tesla is really specifically struggling against is their older

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Speaker 1: and aging portfolio of cars. This actually is not an accident.

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Speaker 1: And Matt, I know you know all about this. Tesla

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Speaker 1: is kind of becoming a robotics company. And we've seen

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Speaker 1: Tesla well, we see SpaceX and Xai merge. That was

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Speaker 1: big news this week. I'm sure you spoke about it

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Speaker 1: on your show. And there's even talk that Tesla could

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Speaker 1: eventually merge with one or both of those companies as well.

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Speaker 2: I imagine it will have it's inevitable Frankly, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because Elon Musk has a trillion dollar pay package and

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Speaker 2: one of the criteria he has to meet in order

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Speaker 2: to get that money a trillion dollars. Think of it

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Speaker 2: is comprehensive, is to enlarge the market capitalization of Tesla

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Speaker 2: to eight and a half trillion dollars, and right now

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Speaker 2: it's at one and a half trillion dollars, and SpaceX

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Speaker 2: and Xai combined are worth about one and a half trillion.

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Speaker 2: That's what we expect would expect in an IPO. So

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Speaker 2: it's a no brainer you put those together when you're

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Speaker 2: looking for scale, right, it's just a question of how

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Speaker 2: and when.

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Speaker 1: Right. And Elon has also said that Optimist, which is

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Speaker 1: their humanoid robot, eventually is going to comprise eighty percent

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Speaker 1: of Tesla's value, so he's already said we're moving into

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Speaker 1: this robotic thing now. A couple analysts that I spoke

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Speaker 1: with did say, if test La actually comes out with

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Speaker 1: real self driving, not the full self driving that is

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Speaker 1: not self full self driving, if they really do come

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Speaker 1: out with fully autonomous driving, they will recapture a lot

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Speaker 1: of consumers because that is really why people buy Tesla's today.

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Speaker 1: They're buying a software mule. So if Tesla can do that,

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Speaker 1: and they are working on the cybercab of course, and

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Speaker 1: all of these autonomous driving technologies, then it will probably

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Speaker 1: regain quite a lot of consumer I mean, you have.

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Speaker 2: To imagine that Optimists, the idea, the promise of a robot,

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Speaker 2: the promise of autonomous vehicles is almost all of Tesla's

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Speaker 2: market cap because they're worth one and a half trillion dollars.

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Speaker 2: And after Tesla, the biggest company carmaker in the world

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Speaker 2: is in terms of market cap Toyota, which is three

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Speaker 2: hundred and seventy five billion dollars, so only a fraction

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Speaker 2: of that. Then you get to you know, GM is

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Speaker 2: only seventy five billion dollars. Folkswagen with all of the

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Speaker 2: brands that we love so much, you know, Lamborghini, Bentley, Bugatti, Dukati, Audi, Scota,

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Speaker 2: they're only a fifty billion euro company.

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Speaker 1: So that's wild.

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Speaker 2: It's it's crazy that Tesla's worth one and a half

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Speaker 2: trillion and that's all the promise of some future. To

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Speaker 2: get back to why people would switch out, Yes, I'm

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Speaker 2: curious of people who have been Tesla devotees or Tesla drivers.

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Speaker 2: Do they go do the Do most of them go

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Speaker 2: to other evs? Yes, yeah, that's what I would thought,

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Speaker 2: because once you go EV you don't typically go back

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Speaker 2: to gas exactly.

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Speaker 1: And that's according to S and P Global Mobility, more

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Speaker 1: than two thirds of customers who leave Tesla go to

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Speaker 1: another EV. There are a few who who told me

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Speaker 1: that they missed, you know, the tangible feel and tactile

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Speaker 1: experience of combustion engines. But yeah, most most.

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Speaker 2: Day in the in the sound, right, you had you

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Speaker 2: inner somebody who went to a Porsche Panamara and said,

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Speaker 2: I don't care if it's slower. I like the sound.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, this guy I think was probably a closet

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Speaker 1: Porsche fan in the end, because he did say I

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Speaker 1: don't care if it's lower. But he also told me again, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I really did love the Tesla when I

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Speaker 1: first got it. He got a twenty thirteen model, so

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Speaker 1: it was super early. But in the end, it just

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Speaker 1: felt like an old laptop that took forever to boot up.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, we just had a baby. My wife's

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Speaker 1: in the parking lot. I didn't want her alone with

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Speaker 1: our baby in a parking lot waiting for the car

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Speaker 1: to boot up.

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Speaker 2: That's weird.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't I don't blame him, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: according can't be the case.

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Speaker 2: With I can't be the case of the new Tesla, right, I.

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Speaker 1: Don't think so. But for him it was enough, And

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Speaker 1: I think it's telling that he did he switched to

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Speaker 1: something combustion.

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Speaker 2: I say, I haven't driven to Tesla since probably twenty

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Speaker 2: sixteen was the last time I drove one, and I

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Speaker 2: was always impressed by know the low center of gravity

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Speaker 2: and obviously the instant acceleration. People think that one of

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Speaker 2: the main complaints about our podcast is that they say

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Speaker 2: we're anti EV, which isn't true. I'm very much pro

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Speaker 2: I love EV trucks, I love the EVG Wagon. I

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Speaker 2: love the Porsche Tychon. I can't stop thinking about the

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Speaker 2: Porscha Tychon, Like it's I constantly am thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: Wow to your mind?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, like we're gonna talk about Porsche in

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Speaker 2: the second. When I saw the headline that they were

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Speaker 2: considering acting EV sports cars, that headline was referring to

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Speaker 2: the seven eighteen, but I thought for a moment they

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Speaker 2: were considering actioning the Tychon, and I was all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden freaking out because I could have imagined the used

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Speaker 2: values jumping. Yeah, and I just really enjoyed driving that car.

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Speaker 2: But the thing is, I I just don't really have

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Speaker 2: access to Tesla press cars. I've never I've never been

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Speaker 2: offered a Tesla press car but also they're not that

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Speaker 2: different than they were in two thousand and six team.

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Speaker 1: Right when the cyber truck truck came out in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three, I actually rented it on turow for our

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Speaker 1: press review because yeah, they don't give out they don't

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Speaker 1: give up press cars.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not going to pay one thousand dollars a year.

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Speaker 1: You can expense it. It's research. Matt put it on

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Speaker 1: the corporate card, come on, it's it is definitely But

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Speaker 1: to your point, yeah, I agree. First of all, they

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Speaker 1: haven't had any brand new models since the cyber truck,

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Speaker 1: so why would why would you have, you know, anything

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Speaker 1: new to drive, you wouldn't. Second of all, they don't

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Speaker 1: have a fleet for the press, so yeah, it's tricky.

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Speaker 2: Well, in the model, the one model that I love,

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Speaker 2: the model S is now dad there. Yeah, I know,

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Speaker 2: discanceling you and I think that's the most elegant, most

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Speaker 2: timeless design that Friends fund Holds, Housend and Tesla have achieved.

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Speaker 1: That's the one that changed at all.

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Speaker 2: So really yeah, all right, cool, Well, great story on Tesla.

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Speaker 2: I recommend people go and check it out on Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: dot com or on the Bloomberg terminal. We do want

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Speaker 2: to get to the Porsche story, so when we come back,

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Speaker 2: we'll talk about the Stuttgart Suffenhausen automaker pulling the plug

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Speaker 2: making some difficult decisions. That's all ahead on Hot Pursuit.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Hot Pursuit. This week, we learned that

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Speaker 2: Porsche may be reconsidering it's all electric models, or one specifically.

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Speaker 2: And Hannah, like I said, when I saw this headline

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Speaker 2: Cross the Terminal, I was on my live program, so

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Speaker 2: I was doing other news and somebody my team sent

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Speaker 2: me the headline and I kind of lost the plot

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Speaker 2: for a second because I was so worried that my

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Speaker 2: beloved tychon that they would stop producing. That turns out

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Speaker 2: they were talking about the seven eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Seven eighteen, which I feel like they really really drag

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Speaker 1: their heels on for as long as possible because they

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Speaker 1: don't need it, right, an.

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Speaker 2: Electric They don't need an electric seventeen. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think anyone's asking for it.

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Speaker 2: It's I really don't. It's really interesting to me because

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Speaker 2: having spent some time in the gas version of both

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Speaker 2: the Box D and the and the Cayman, and I'm

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Speaker 2: sure you have as well. They have this. They have

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Speaker 2: this reputation as the driver's car or the track day car, right,

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Speaker 2: because it's the mid engine, yeah, exactly, and you could

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Speaker 2: always get a stick. You can still get a stick

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Speaker 2: with those, And because it's kind of like a momentum car, right,

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Speaker 2: it's not like shockingly fast out of the gate. You

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Speaker 2: get the revs up and you're hanging around the corners.

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Speaker 2: But I thought the idea of an electric version would

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Speaker 2: be interesting because then you do get that blistering quickness

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Speaker 2: zero to sixty. And also, you know, it's fun to

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Speaker 2: drive a small electric car because of that instant torque

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Speaker 2: and because of the low center of gravity, you can

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Speaker 2: really push it around a corner. But I obviously I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have wanted one.

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Speaker 1: You know what the crazy thing is, I've driven the

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Speaker 1: electric Fiat. But they're really and this is there really

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Speaker 1: aren't small electric.

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Speaker 2: Cars, right because batteries are so heavy.

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Speaker 1: Right, there are there aren't two door sports electric cars.

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Speaker 1: And I understand why maybe you'd think of this would

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Speaker 1: fill a hole.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the Model three is pretty small, right, the

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Speaker 2: Tesla Model three.

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Speaker 1: Four door sedan. True, it's it's no sports car.

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Speaker 2: They had the roadster at one point, and I'm guessing

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Speaker 2: you could get electric and electric lotus, right, Yeah, Barry

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Speaker 2: red Holtz converted his nine to eleven electric.

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Speaker 1: Outdated by the way, I think. I think that so

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Speaker 1: I think now that electric vehicle sales are slowing and

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Speaker 1: all this, like people are realizing we'd don't have to

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Speaker 1: have them. Yeah, it's that's going to be like so

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: Like there's a company. There's this company, Everrotty, right, they

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Speaker 2: make electrified versions.

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Speaker 1: Of There are many companies I know, I know, but.

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Speaker 2: This one I've been seeing. It's been pop up in

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Speaker 2: my socials and also we've been talking to some of

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Speaker 2: the representatives. They make four different at least four different

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Speaker 2: models that they offer. A nine to eleven and like

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Speaker 2: different variations of that. A Mercedes like a Pagoda, right,

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Speaker 2: a land Rover like a Classic land Rover, and oddly

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Speaker 2: a GT forty Mark two. And I was looking at

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Speaker 2: their website. They have a really cool website and if

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Speaker 2: you're into that kind of thing, check it out. I

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Speaker 2: was thinking, like the Pagoda and the land Rover makes

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Speaker 2: sense because they're big, heavy vehicles that never were fast.

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Speaker 1: Pagoda is not a big heavy vehicle.

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Speaker 2: Well okay, but but it's small I think relative to

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Speaker 2: its competition. It was fairly heavy because of the sort

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Speaker 2: of over engineering of Mercedes, and even the electric version

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Speaker 2: it says zero to sixty in less than seven seconds,

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Speaker 2: whereas the other ones, like the electric nine to elevens

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Speaker 2: they make are four seconds. In any case, the Pagodo's

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Speaker 2: never been a quick it's not a speedster, you know.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, it made sense to me. But the GT

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Speaker 2: forty Mark two doesn't make any sense to me. And

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Speaker 2: the portion nine to eleven like what you want with

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Speaker 2: a nine to eleven. To me, the turbo doesn't even

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Speaker 2: make sense with a nine to eleven because what I

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Speaker 2: want is to stretch out, to ring out the engine

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Speaker 2: to have it revving, you know, seven eight thousand RPMs.

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Speaker 1: And that's not I I can't get behind it. I

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Speaker 1: have not heard great things about these cars. They are

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Speaker 1: so expensive, plus the cost of the donor car. Yep,

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Speaker 1: I don't hear anybody asking for these so moving. The

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Speaker 1: best thing about the Porscha arguably so yeah, when no

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Speaker 1: one is asking for it.

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Speaker 2: In any case, So Porsia now is going to or

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Speaker 2: considering we should say. And this is reporting by Monica

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Speaker 2: Raymont in Berlin, and she has been following, studying, profiling

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Speaker 2: Michael Lighters, the new CEO of Porsche, for many many months.

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Speaker 2: In fact, I remember when we went to Lamal last summer,

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Speaker 2: she was like, hey, is Michael Lighter is going to

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Speaker 2: be there? Because she was already stalking him. So they're

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Speaker 2: considering axing the EV seven eighteen. I feel like that's

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Speaker 2: a trial balloon they floated to tell the market like

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Speaker 2: we're acting it. Do you care? For sure?

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Speaker 1: And anyone paying attention already knew that they were going

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Speaker 1: to do that a year ago.

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Speaker 2: I wonder those saw it. Do they bring back the

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Speaker 2: gas versions because they're still on the website. You can

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Speaker 2: go on the website and configure a number of different

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Speaker 2: variations of Cayman and boxed her.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's a good question, and I see here the

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Speaker 1: reporting says that, you know, deliberations to add a plug

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Speaker 1: in hybrid basically, and this makes sense, would have only

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Speaker 1: complicated things because that car would require different underpinnings, which

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Speaker 1: would put Portia at risk of introducing older technology in

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Speaker 1: a new product, which you never want that. So they're

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Speaker 1: kind of caught, you know, between a rock and a

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Speaker 1: hard place. Here I get it, And at what point

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Speaker 1: do you cut your losses? You've gone for years in

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Speaker 1: one direction like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean to me the spot to me, okay.

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Speaker 2: I feel like if you get one of these cars,

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Speaker 2: if you're getting a Cayman, especially if you're a track person,

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Speaker 2: you probably are more of a purist, right totally.

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Speaker 1: You know what every pro driver I like out on

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Speaker 1: the track. I'll be like, hey, like what do you

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Speaker 1: think of the came and they all love it. They're like,

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Speaker 1: it's so it's perfectly balanced, it's really fun. It's very predictable,

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Speaker 1: like they.

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Speaker 2: Love it, right, like Derek the uh jazz musician who

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Speaker 2: has a place by Chris Body? Sorry, Eric, why don't

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Speaker 2: always think Eric Body? Chris Body has a He told

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Speaker 2: us that he he oh yeah, he got like a

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Speaker 2: GT three, but he wanted to go back into the

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Speaker 2: GT four. In any case, I would think purists are

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Speaker 2: down for that. But you know that I love the hybrid.

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Speaker 2: You know, sports cars, I love.

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Speaker 1: You always have.

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Speaker 2: I love the Corvette. I love the Corvette E Ray.

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Speaker 2: You know they put an electric motor on the front

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Speaker 2: act all. They had the six point two liters V

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Speaker 2: eight driving the rear. I'm I'm I just picked up

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Speaker 2: a twenty twenty six a mg E fifty three hybrid wagon.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Mercedes Benz. And it's the same thing. They

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Speaker 2: have their inline six motor, the gas motor with the

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Speaker 2: turbo charger, and they have, you know, an electric motor

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Speaker 2: adding power. I think it's the best of both worlds.

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Speaker 2: To me, it makes sense.

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Speaker 1: I love it. You You've always said it, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: I like raise an eyebrow. I think you're really right.

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Speaker 1: I think at this point hybrid technology makes a lot

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Speaker 1: of sense for a lot of things. And you know

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Speaker 1: this is slightly off topic, but not really. I don't

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Speaker 1: understand why if we want to save the world, why

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Speaker 1: can't we start in the US with public transport?

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Speaker 2: Oh no, I totally and trains.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like in Europe, I mean there there's no public

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Speaker 1: transport across no usable I'm like, I don't. I still

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Speaker 1: don't see.

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Speaker 2: How, even for car people it would be a huge

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Speaker 2: draw because okay, when I you know, I bought a

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Speaker 2: GLS from Galpin in La and it would have been

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Speaker 2: fun to fly out to La, drive it around a

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Speaker 2: little bit, and then put it on a train with me,

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Speaker 2: you know, and like, you can do that still in Europe.

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Speaker 2: If I want to go ride motorcycles in Italy but

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Speaker 2: I'm living in Berlin, I can just go to Hanover,

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Speaker 2: put the bike on a train, get an overnight car,

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Speaker 2: and wake up in Verona, take my bike off the

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Speaker 2: train and go school around you know the apps and

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Speaker 2: and and that way. I avoid the five hour like

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Speaker 2: Autobahn trip from Berlin too. No one wants to do that.

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Speaker 1: Not with thopeed cameras.

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Speaker 2: So not fun exactly. So yeah, I think I love

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Speaker 2: train travel by itself. By the way, I really enjoy

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Speaker 2: getting on a train. I went and picked up a

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Speaker 2: motorcycle that I bought in Virginia. And remember I tried

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Speaker 2: to fly down there, but my flight was canceled. And

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Speaker 2: then a week later I didn't make that mistake again.

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Speaker 2: I got a I got a train ticket and I

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Speaker 2: had a really nice time. I got on the train,

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Speaker 2: I had my laptop, I watched a Moto GP race,

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Speaker 2: I had a launch and it was relaxing and no

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Speaker 2: stress of the airport.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I know, obviously this is a big country,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a huge undertaking, but I don't I just

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Speaker 1: think this is a very easy way to eliminate cars

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Speaker 1: on the road.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but wait, what what makes you think of that?

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Speaker 2: Why do you.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, I've just been the California has been

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Speaker 1: dealing with a lot of like, you know, talking about

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Speaker 1: how money has been misappropriated away from doing public transport

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Speaker 1: and high speed rail and all of this as we

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Speaker 1: go into the Olympics. So there's a lot of talk

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Speaker 1: about why don't we have more of it? Where have

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Speaker 1: all these you know, budget earmarks gone? So it's on

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Speaker 1: it's it's just on my mind. And then I saw

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Speaker 1: a map on Instagram. I admit I saw a map

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Speaker 1: showing all of the train paths in Europe and then

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Speaker 1: all of the train paths in the US. And it's

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Speaker 1: like one the first photo is completely black with train

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Speaker 1: tracks and the other is completely empty.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty crazy. I mean, yeah, there are some I

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Speaker 2: guess in California there must be more train travel, like

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Speaker 2: north to south. Right, you can take a train from

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Speaker 2: San Francisco to San Diego. And in Florida there's a

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Speaker 2: new private train line, bright Line, that goes from like

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Speaker 2: Tampa to Miami. I'm taking that next next week. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to take the kids to Disney in Orlando, obviously,

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Speaker 2: and then we're going to get on a train and

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Speaker 2: go down to Fort Lauderdale where we get on a

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Speaker 2: Disney cruise. So and apparently it's very nice. The problem

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Speaker 2: with the trains in Florida is that they keep killing

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Speaker 2: people because because as Americans, we're not used to, you know, crossings,

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Speaker 2: for example, we don't want to put up the gates.

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Speaker 2: People try and drive through them anyway in.

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Speaker 1: Florida, Florida. Don't try it, Florida.

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Speaker 2: Point no.

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Speaker 1: Wait, how long is this cruise?

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Speaker 2: I think it's a four day cruise. I'm a little

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Speaker 2: bit worried, but I hear positive things about I've never

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Speaker 2: been on a big like commercial cruise neither, and I

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Speaker 2: don't ever want to go on one. I don't think

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Speaker 2: I want to.

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Speaker 1: So it's nice that you're doing this for your fan.

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Speaker 2: It's for the girls, you know, all right. So the

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Speaker 2: one thing about Porsche that I wonder is the seven eighteen.

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Speaker 2: Maybe no one wanted one and electric, and no one's

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Speaker 2: going to get one electric. But one of the biggest

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Speaker 2: blemishes on Porsha's record so far this year has been

433
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 2: the electric Cayenne right, I mean that's what got that

434
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 2: worst backlash on social media. Have you driven it yet?

435
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 2: The electric Cayenne.

436
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to be honest, yeah and say I don't remember.

437
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, I think you would remember. Did you drive

438
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 2: the electric Macan?

439
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 1: Yes?

440
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 2: I haven't driven either one, but I know that it's

441
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 2: been out and like Matt Farrell ordered one and I

442
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 2: think owns one as a as a daily He likes

443
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 2: electric cars. He liked the Mustang Mochi.

444
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, he does really like try him like he does

445
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: put in the work on them, doesn't he.

446
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see how those sales

447
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: go of because those are they're money makers, right, These

448
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: are the high volume.

449
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: Completely like depending on whether it's the US or the

450
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: rest of the world. Yeah, these are their best sellers.

451
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 2: It'll be interesting to see how that goes.

452
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: I don't think I drove an electric Macona. I think

453
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: the reason why I don't remember is because I have not.

454
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I don't think. Yeah, yeah, electric Cayenne. I

455
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 2: think you must have driven the electric Macon.

456
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: I've driven. I have driven the electric Mconna, that for sure,

457
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 1: I drove last.

458
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 2: Year, but didn't make a huge impression on you. Obviously.

459
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: No, I'm looking at the review like, yes, I drove it.

460
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 1: I think it was good. According to my review, it

461
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: was good. It was in copper ruby metallic. I do

462
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 1: remember this car, but I haven't driven the kay.

463
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 2: There's a right now, there's a green Ferrari four fifty

464
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 2: six on Bring a Trailer. And one of the things

465
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 2: I love about BAT is a lot of times old

466
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: journalists will get on there and comment and some guys,

467
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 2: are you the real names? Yeah? Yeah. And a journalist

468
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 2: who test drove that car when it first came out,

469
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 2: like one of the first ones in America in the

470
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: comment section wrote like he's never gonna forget driving this

471
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 2: car for the first time. And he went back and

472
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 2: looked at his slides and looked at his old story

473
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 2: and yes, and that that's true. That car made a

474
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 2: mark on this man. And I'm saying the electropic con

475
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 2: did not make a mark on you.

476
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: That's right, that is accurate, and I can totally relate

477
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: to that. And maybe this is a little known secret,

478
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: but when you do drive so many cars, honestly you

479
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: have sometimes you have to go back and look and

480
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: be like, did I drive that card? This goes back

481
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: to my whole thing with so many cars are appliances,

482
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: especially premium SUV's. Let's just be honest, they are. There

483
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: are a lot of cars that I really do remember.

484
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: I really remember the nine nine, remember that car. I

485
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: really remember the Roma. I really remember the electric g

486
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: Wagon yep, you know, like there are some of.

487
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 2: The huge trains and a huge fan.

488
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: By the way, me too, I was blown away. So

489
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: it's not just about it being electric, because I do remember.

490
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: I remember driving in the Modelesque like in twenty twelve.

491
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: I remember those.

492
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 2: Maybe, by the way, maybe the Kyenne is successful as

493
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 2: an EV because in my experience, big you know, SUVs

494
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: and trucks are great platforms for an EV powertrain. It

495
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 2: just seems to work so well on these huge people

496
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 2: movers or haulers. Like I love the G Class with

497
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 2: an EV powertrain, and I love the GMCCI Era with

498
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 2: an EV Patra.

499
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: I love the escalator, the electric escalator, and I know

500
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: you did not like it, but I remember that very specifically,

501
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: Like yes, there's a use case for sure.

502
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: All right, Well, when we come back, we're going to

503
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 2: talk about more about Ferrari because the tech Stuosa is back.

504
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: But can anyone really justify the price tag, especially in

505
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 2: a world where nowadays, when you drive a Ferrari off

506
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: the lot, they tend to depreciate really quickly. We'll have

507
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: that discussion after this. Welcome back to Hot Pursuit. I've

508
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: been seeing some very positive reviews. Well, I've only seen

509
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 2: two reviews actually of the eight forty nine test Urosa.

510
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 2: And before we get into what they said or what

511
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,479
Speaker 2: we expect, I have to say, Hannah, my first thought was,

512
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: when Ferrari gives you a car, as like the first

513
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: journalist to drive it into America, they do it because

514
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: they know you're going to write a positive review, don't they.

515
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: Ah, I think they certainly hope.

516
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 2: So right, well, and all your I mean what, I

517
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 2: always defend journalists who write positive reviews all the time

518
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: by saying, look, it's a brand new car that costs

519
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of dollars, like it's going to be

520
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 2: a great experience for anyone that gets to ride in

521
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 2: it for a few days.

522
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: For sure, it's nice. I don't think there's anything wrong

523
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: with writing. If something is really good, you should write

524
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: that it's good. That's the whole point. People want to

525
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: know you're you're serving the reader. You're serving the consumer.

526
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: But by the same token, if something is not good,

527
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: you should also say that it's not being mean, it's

528
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: not hurting the car's feelings. It's you just should say

529
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: whatever the reality.

530
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: So, for me, like, the problem is the way it looks,

531
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: because it doesn't look like it it's ugly, and it's

532
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: not as ugly as the f s F nine dy

533
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 2: or ugly. Maybe that's this sounds like.

534
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: You don't like or is it the whole car? Is

535
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: it those wings on the back.

536
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 2: It's it's the different colored panels, and I think it

537
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: actually looks better and yellow and I don't love yellow

538
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: as a color.

539
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: But I'm with you on that. I totally agree.

540
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 2: It's just I've never been I wasn't a fan of

541
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 2: the original Testuosa.

542
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: And oh are you kidding me?

543
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 2: With the streaked lines on the cell.

544
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: I love the original into it oh and white one

545
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: cocaine white and yeah white.

546
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: Yes, And I'm not a fan of this one, but

547
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 2: I imagine, uh with the V eight And as we

548
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 2: were talking about earlier, the hybrid power train, it's probably

549
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 2: an amazing car to drive because it's still a Ferrari.

550
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I haven't driven this car, so you drove.

551
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 2: You drove the SF ninety, Yes.

552
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: And that was an incredible car, like the best possible

553
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: use case for a hybrid. I thought it was beautiful, truly,

554
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: it's a great example of Ferrari like tiptoeing into electric

555
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: cars without just throwing everything away. I loved it and

556
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: we should also. All of this isn't in the context

557
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: of they're going to be debuting their first ever fully

558
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: electric car by the end of this year or so.

559
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: By the way, everybody else is doing these hybrids too,

560
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 2: Like Lamborghini has the Temrio. I haven't driven it, but

561
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: I can't wait to. They have the Rev Welto, which

562
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: you liked other than the speeding tickets.

563
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: Absolutely love that you got it was worth it.

564
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 2: Corvette has not only the E Ray but the z

565
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 2: R one X in which they electrify that. So it's

566
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: like a ton of supercars or hypercars are using hybrid

567
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: hybrid platform.

568
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: Makes Now I we should talk about the interior. Did

569
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: you see the interior photos?

570
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 2: Yes?

571
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: For this What did you think of it?

572
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I like it. It's it's lacking a stick,

573
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 2: it's it's only got two pedals, and I've you know,

574
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 2: I've talked to the CEO for Ari, Benedetto Veno about this.

575
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: I think it's a huge mistake. I get what they're doing.

576
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 2: They're heck forward, right, So they put like supercomputers at

577
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: all four corners to control the suspension, and the they

578
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 2: want the shifts to be, you know, less than milliseconds.

579
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 2: But I feel like at this price point, and it's

580
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:22,239
Speaker 2: like six hundred grand, the buyer is by definition at

581
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,479
Speaker 2: that point an enthusiast and is gonna want is going

582
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 2: to prefer, frankly, a manual transmission. That's what you see

583
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 2: with the GT three, right. The take rate is huge,

584
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 2: So I think the Ferrari makes a huge mistake in

585
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 2: not doing that.

586
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: I so, how much horsepower does this car have in

587
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: the end?

588
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 2: Eight hundred and nineteen horsepower at seventy five hundred r

589
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 2: PM's six hundred and twenty one pound feet.

590
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: Honestly, the idea of shifting that much power for most

591
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 1: drivers is kind of insane. I think that's a lot.

592
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: That's what they that's what they're engineers like. When they're

593
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: giving an excuse as to why they can't or don't

594
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 2: offer them annual transmission, they say it's because of that.

595
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 2: But you can get a Hellcat with a stick in it,

596
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 2: and you can get there is what's that supercar that

597
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 2: was just shown at Retromobile. It has nine hundred horse

598
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 2: power and a stick shift, and they're only making like

599
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 2: twenty of them. I'm just looking through my messages because

600
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 2: I sent you a message about it last week.

601
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: I will say, while you're looking that up, this is

602
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: a full range model. It doesn't have a production limit,

603
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: and I do think that is cool because theoretically you

604
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: could buy one. Obviously you probably have to buy a

605
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: few other Ferraris ahead of it, but I do like that.

606
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 2: I don't think you had to do that anymore, right,

607
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think you have to line up

608
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 2: and buy the cheaper ones before you get the good one.

609
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: And also, this isn't the twelve cylinder, but at this

610
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: point the SF ninety, I've seen one with only two

611
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 2: hundred miles go for over one hundred thousand dollars under MSRP.

612
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 2: I saw one with sixteen hundred miles go for I

613
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: think two hundred and fifty thousand dollars below MSRP. So

614
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 2: bother me at all, no, But I'm just saying like,

615
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 2: you don't have to wait for a Ferrari. They're on

616
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,439
Speaker 2: the lots, they have inventory, and they'll sell anybody who

617
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: has the money the car.

618
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: Now are you getting this info? Who are you talking to?

619
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 2: I'm I'm looking at uh at bring a trailer. You

620
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: constantly see SF nineties and super Fast A twelves and

621
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 2: other cars there. And I hear from dealers that even

622
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 2: the twelveth cylindery is one where you know, they first said, look,

623
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 2: we're going to send you an allotment of let's say

624
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 2: a dozen, and now actually it's thirty six. You know.

625
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: So I think the car. I think they're by that

626
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 2: car heartbeat. I think they're looking at real appreciation as

627
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 2: soon as they leave the lot, and I think they're

628
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 2: asking too much again for like a rolling computer, when

629
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 2: somebody wants a piece of art that's interesting.

630
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: But then I go back to every single auction that

631
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: we've had since the start of the year, whether it's

632
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: Meekam in Florida or Retromobile in Paris or like Bottom

633
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: broad Arrows online. The headliners on all of them are Ferraris.

634
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: For instance, but which ones for instance?

635
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: And Meekham two thousand and three Ferrari Enzo went for

636
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: almost eighteen million dollars. F fifty nineteen ninety five F

637
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 1: fifty went for twelve million. Another Enzo sold for eleven

638
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: million dollars. The online Bonhom's sale saw this saw a

639
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 1: two eighty eight gto go for about ten million dollars,

640
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: saw twenty eighteen FXS Evo without reserve go for over

641
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: nine million dollars. I mean, some of those pretty recent

642
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: cars they reported. Let's see, I'm just looking through the results.

643
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 1: Ninety four five twelve speciales sold for over eight hundred thousand.

644
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: I mean of Broad Arrows online auction, five of the

645
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: top ten top sellers this year were Ferraris. So I'm like,

646
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: I don't I'm not worried in the least. Yeah, you know,

647
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 1: you're probably they're if they're down, they're going to pop

648
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: back up, no problem.

649
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 2: You have a good point. And like Steve Sirio said,

650
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 2: there was a time when somebody would see an Enzo

651
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 2: and say that's a Yeah, it's a car for footballers lives.

652
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: It's not for real collectors, and now they obviously are.

653
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: That was Andrew Hall. Yeah, complain and then you go

654
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: to R. M. Sodeby's their European auction January twenty eighth.

655
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: I'm looking. They saw a in another two thousand and

656
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: four inso inzos are really the thing go for almost

657
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: ten million?

658
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 2: But those are twelve cylinders. You think someday in SF

659
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 2: ninety is going to go for a lot more than

660
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 2: MSRP in the next I do, in the next thirty

661
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 2: years or in the fifty years.

662
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, thirty, less than thirty. I think less than thirty. Yeah, interesting,

663
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: yes I do. And I am doing a story right

664
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: now in the collecting market, so I'm I'm talking to

665
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: a lot of people at the moment. And oh and

666
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,919
Speaker 1: I also spoke with David Lee, the guy who bought

667
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: the oh nice the gto.

668
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: Did you ask him if you could join our podcast?

669
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: No? But I will, I please do, Okay, I will

670
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: do well.

671
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 2: By the way, are those all those cars you mentioned?

672
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 2: Some of them must have automatic transmissions?

673
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah?

674
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, f one sure, Yeah, I don't.

675
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: I honestly, I don't think the new buyer cares.

676
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 2: I really, that's so weird.

677
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: I don't this like we are already on the old

678
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: well the old side.

679
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 2: Also like I, as you know, and as I say

680
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 2: it all the time, I have very little experience driving

681
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 2: cars in this stratosphere, like I haven't spent very much

682
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 2: time in any Ferraris or uh well, I have spent

683
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 2: a lot of time in Lamborghini's. But you have some

684
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,959
Speaker 2: kind of yeah, and the and the transmission doesn't bother

685
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: me at all. My favorite transmission in a Lamborghini is

686
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 2: the super clunky agricultural transmission in the evented door. But

687
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 2: I hear from a lot of people that drive the

688
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,720
Speaker 2: alf Romeo four c's that they actually like. They prefer

689
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 2: the transmission, the non manual transmission that it has, because

690
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 2: they say it fits, it's more fitting to the character

691
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 2: of the car.

692
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: I get that, sure, I get that, I get it.

693
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 2: The supercar I was thinking of was the Capricorn. Did

694
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: you see this I sent you.

695
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: I genuinely miss that.

696
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 2: It's called It's like a German built car with an

697
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 2: Italian stylist, and they showed they've showed them at a

698
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 2: couple of car shows. They're just at at Retromobile. But

699
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 2: this is a twelve cylinder car with nine hundred horse

700
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 2: power and it's got a manual transmission, so okay, it's

701
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,760
Speaker 2: three million euros. They're only building nineteen.

702
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: Oh, that's kind of pretty.

703
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,399
Speaker 2: But I'm saying, you know, I love I love it.

704
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 2: But I'm saying, like say, it's it's it's a it's

705
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 2: a it's a lie that too much torque makes many

706
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 2: transmissions impossible.

707
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I I hear you. That's a nice one.

708
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: You lie as a harsh term in the In this

709
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 2: day and age, I don't think you're allowed to say

710
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 2: someone lied.

711
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: I was told that I'm not allowed to use the

712
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 1: word dumb in print.

713
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 2: Oh really dumb? Yeah, yeah, unless you're talking about someone

714
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: who can't speak, doesn't have the power of speech.

715
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: Well, even that, you know, you should say they are

716
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: speaking disabled or something.

717
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know.

718
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: I just said. I just got a note I know

719
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: recently on one of my pieces that said, you know,

720
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: be careful how you use the word dumb.

721
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 2: Oh I was hanging out. I was dumb to say

722
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 2: that Capricorn is of B twelve. It's actually a five

723
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,479
Speaker 2: point two leer super charged V eight.

724
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 1: Oh does that lower it in your estimation? No?

725
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: I still it looks gorgeous. I would love to try

726
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 2: it out and drive it, and I have an historic

727
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 2: love for five point two liter V eighths because a

728
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 2: lot of Ford Mustangs have that set up.

729
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: That makes sense. I just want to say back to

730
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: the Ferrari thing, and I to put a pin on

731
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: my point. I saw this data from DuPont Registry of

732
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: the top ten sales at the retromobile sales in Paris,

733
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 1: Ferrari was seven of the ten highest transactions for across

734
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: four auctions, So across everything all of the sales, Ferrari

735
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: was seven of the ten highest, and that included evos

736
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: and track only cars and modern halo cars. So I understand, Yeah,

737
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: the price drops when you drive it up the lot,

738
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: but I think if you're someone who has a little

739
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: bit of patience, it's not a problem.

740
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: I well, I'm just thinking. I'm thinking of like a

741
00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: GT three. If I get a GT three Touring or

742
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 2: a GT three with a Vice OK package or whatever.

743
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 2: I don't know who wants that kind of monstrosity. But

744
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 2: if I get a nine to eleven ST, you know,

745
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 2: or if I get a nine to eleven, if I

746
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 2: got a nine to eleven R, which would have been

747
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 2: my absolute dream, any of those cars, I drive them

748
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: off the lot, I list them on bring a trailer,

749
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: and I instantly make one or two hundred grand like Boom.

750
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: The demand is there now, and they're so exclusive that

751
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 2: you're not getting them for even ten or twenty or

752
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 2: thirty percent above MSRP. That's not the case with Ferrari's

753
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,439
Speaker 2: certainly not with the SF nine D interesting point, and

754
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: maybe not with the eight forty nine Testrosa and I

755
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 2: don't know the market as well as you and and Steve,

756
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 2: and obviously Ferrari always tops the list of the highest

757
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 2: you know, money cars at auctions, but I feel like

758
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 2: something is changing as they put you know, an extra

759
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 2: thousand microchips in the new tuist Ferrari and completely shirk

760
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 2: off the idea of letting the driver have a more

761
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 2: more engagement.

762
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this, and this takes us

763
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: back to our middle segment. Do you think Porsche is

764
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: gonna start to have a dip in values as a

765
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 1: sort of latent reaction to everything that's happening within the

766
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: corporate structure of the company.

767
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 2: I have thought about this a lot, and I don't

768
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 2: imagine that the nine to eleven is affected by those things.

769
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: Even though the nine to eleven has similar issues and

770
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: it's always getting bigger, it's maybe a little bit heavier,

771
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 2: but not that much. It's much more computerized. They're pushing

772
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 2: away from manual transmissions like you can only get I

773
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 2: think the T is now the only car that you

774
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 2: can get a manual in. But there's so much demand.

775
00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 2: There's rabid demand. You know, people who fawn over like

776
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 2: the nineteen seventy one Iraq nine to eleven are also

777
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 2: praising a new GT three y sock, which I don't

778
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 2: understand how that same person likes both cars. But people

779
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,919
Speaker 2: just love anything they do with the nine to eleven

780
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 2: and that's not the case with the f cars.

781
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: Right now, Yeah, this I could talk. I yes, I'm

782
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: very curious how this goes for Bentley and I and

783
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: I you should start watching Bentley Matt because Bentley has

784
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: Porsche's old motorsport.

785
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 2: Boss yees, you know, Frank Stephen Wallaser.

786
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: And of course, as you know, Bentley has recently put

787
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: out drifting videos. They have recently put out a like

788
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: a supersports version of their Continental. They are at ice

789
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: races with that are sponsored by Porsche. And I see

790
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: Bentley sort of doing the Porsche blueprint yep, and I

791
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: wonder how that is going to translate for Bentley number one,

792
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 1: but also is it ultimately working for Porsche in the long, long,

793
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: long run. Maybe it is. I honestly don't know the

794
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: answer to that, but I'm watching it unfold.

795
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 2: I think one of the benefits of a Porsche, even

796
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: though Nathan Mrtz kind of pushed back on this a

797
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 2: little bit, but one of the benefits of a Porsche

798
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 2: is that they just don't break very much. And even

799
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 2: an older one, if you're gonna have, you're gonna have

800
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 2: to obviously make certain repairs, replace certain hoses, gaskets, I

801
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 2: get it, and maybe a transmission or brake rotors. But

802
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,919
Speaker 2: for the most part, they still work ten years later,

803
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 2: twenty years later, thirty years later, forty years later, fifty

804
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 2: years later. The problem with Bentley has been since the

805
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 2: a that if you pick up one on the used

806
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 2: market and you think you got a good deal, wait

807
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 2: till you see the repair bill. I mean, you can

808
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: get one for thirty fifty seventy grand, but it's going

809
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 2: to cost you two or three times that much to

810
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 2: get it into running order, and it's going to constantly

811
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 2: need money, and you're going to constantly need a team

812
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 2: of mechanics to fix it. That's something that Frank Stephan

813
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 2: Wallaster has to change it, Bentley, and if he does,

814
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 2: I could see massive upside for that brand. And I

815
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:28,800
Speaker 2: imagine that he wants to because he must know that

816
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 2: as well. Sure, yeah, all right, that does it for

817
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 2: this week's show. Remember to follow and subscribe to Hot

818
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 2: Pursuit on Apple, Spotify and anywhere you listen. You can

819
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: also send us your comments. We do love to read

820
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 2: and respond to your emails. I get I learn a

821
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: lot from your emails. I'm excited whenever I see one.

822
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 2: So Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net is our email

823
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 2: address again, that's Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net.

824
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: And you can check out my columns and stories on

825
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com and the Bloomberg Business app. Go there

826
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 1: for car reviews, events and stories that you won't find

827
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 1: anywhere else. Find it all at Bloomberg dot com, slash Pursuits,

828
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 1: slash Autos. I'm Hannah Elliott.

829
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 2: And I'm Matt Miller. Will be back in your podcast

830
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:13,399
Speaker 2: feed again next week