1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: My from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg sound On 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: talking about a huge issue here is investment in marginalized communities. 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: They want to deconstructive package and cherry pick what they 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,319 Speaker 1: like what they don't like. China is surgeon powered with 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: major investments. Bloomberg sound On. The insiders, the influencers, the insides. 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: Biden has promised again and again it he will unite 7 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: the country who the big Biden has to watch in 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: terms of moderate defectors, infut the structure that has always 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: been by part of the Bloomberg sound on on Bloomberg Radio. 10 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick coming up on the show today. We're 11 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: gonna have to talk about the Republican infrastructure offered. They're 12 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: preparing totally about a trillion dollars big news today as 13 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,639 Speaker 1: Biden will meet Vladimir Putin. President Biden will meet Vladimir 14 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: Putin in mid June June fifteenth. In June six we've 15 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: got Kevin and Walling, democratic strategist at h G Creative 16 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: Media joining us. He's a former Biden campaign surrogate. Wrote 17 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: a piece today titled Bipartisanship is dead. Republicans killed it. 18 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: I want to press him on that and find out 19 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: if that's actually true. And of course we've got Rick Davis, 20 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor joining us as he so often does, 21 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: excited to talk to him about some of this big 22 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: foreign policy news Russia, Belarus, the Middle East Again. I'm 23 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: Jack Fitzpatrick. I am here with Kevin Walling, Democratic strategist 24 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: at h G Creative Media. He's a former Biden campaign surrogate. 25 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: We've got Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor, and we've got 26 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: a ton of infrastructure negotiations news to sort through here. Uh. 27 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: Number one, Senate Republicans are preparing to send a nearly 28 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: one trillion dollar infrastructure offer they plan to send this 29 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: Thursday to the White House. According to Senator Roger Wicker, 30 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: Republican of Mississippi. UH, compare that to the origin an 31 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: old Republican offer of five sixty eight billions. So that's 32 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: coming up. But aside from that, a bipartisan group of 33 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: senators is also beginning to hold talks. They support the 34 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: original White House and Senate Republican conversation, but this seems 35 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: to essentially be a backup plan, as it has been 36 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: described by Senator Mitt Romney. This also includes Senator Joe Manson. 37 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: So we've got a dual track approach to negotiating an 38 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: infrastructure measure. But let's skip ahead to the hard part. 39 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: Republicans have insisted no changes to the two thousand seventeen 40 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: tax cuts, and this came up today with White House 41 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: Press Secretary Jen Saki, who got into the issue of 42 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: how to pay for this. Let's play that sound. The 43 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: President proposed a way to pay for it. We're waiting 44 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: here that here back from Republicans on how they would 45 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: propose to pay for it. So if they don't want 46 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: to touch the UH tax cuts, two trillion dollar tax 47 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: cuts that did not end up having a winfall back 48 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: to the in public, I guess that's their choice what 49 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: they put in their proposal, but they have to propose 50 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: an alternative. Okay, So, Kevin, thank you so much for 51 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: joining us. Let me just take your temperature here. A 52 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:11,839 Speaker 1: lot of news to sort through, but the big thing 53 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: is this tax issue. The pay for issue seems tough. 54 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: How how optimistic are you? How pessimistic are you? How 55 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: do you synthesize all this information? Do you actually think 56 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: that there's going to be a bipartisan deal? Hey, Jack, 57 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: could be with you. I do think there will be 58 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: some semblance of a bipartisan deal. I think you hit 59 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 1: the nail on the head in terms of Republicans and 60 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: Democrats meant rom the others are fairly in line in 61 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: terms of what needs to be included in this infrastructure package. 62 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: Obviously more of an emphasis on your traditional aspects of infrastructure, 63 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: less so on the social aspects of infrastructure highlighted by 64 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: the White House. And I think the key stumbling block 65 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: in these ongoing conversations is the pay force. Right, the 66 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: Republicans want to put it more on users, gas backs, 67 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: maybe attacks potentially on a vehicles. The Biden administration doesn't 68 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: want any kind of new taxes led for anyone under 69 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: the Flount Neard k a year um income level. How 70 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: do they overcome that? Yeah, that's I mean, that's gonna 71 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: be an interesting thing, and funny enough, the dynamics are 72 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: are interesting within just the West Virginia delegation. Right, so 73 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: you have shelleymore Capital Republicans who's the ranking member on 74 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: Homeland Security, kind of dealing with his infrastructure built in 75 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: conversations with the White House. You Jackie, as you rightly 76 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: point out, you're seeing kind of an end run with 77 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: center mansion with centers uh uh Romney and of course 78 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: um a portman of Ohio kind of doing this and 79 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: run uh in terms of a conversation on the sidelines now, 80 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: um so anyone's guest as to how this will all 81 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,799 Speaker 1: play out? Of course too, with the backdrop of President 82 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: Biden and administration's uh kind of supposed a deadline that 83 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: he wanted to see see some action on this buy 84 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: with the Memorial Day weekend holiday which is coming up 85 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: this weekend. Kevin, I think what you described though, is 86 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: like there's a lot of action going on on this 87 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: this issue in Congress right now, specifically in the Senate, 88 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: and and it and it pretends a lot of good 89 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: potential outcomes, right because all of a sudden, we're now 90 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: talking about virtually no gap at all, you know, just 91 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: a couple of hundred billion dollars between where the administration 92 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: ended and where the Republicans are now picking up. And 93 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: so you can see visibility that you didn't have even 94 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: just a few days ago, that maybe they can come 95 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 1: up with a trillion dollar infrastructure bill, and as Roger 96 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: Wicker said, Uh, this would be the largest infrastructure bill 97 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: in history by any stretch of the imagination. And and 98 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: the fact is that you have Republicans engaging with Democrats 99 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: and and and even this dynamic you point out with 100 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,799 Speaker 1: Shelley Moore Capital and Mansion, a lot of it revolves 101 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: around how do we get this done right? How do 102 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: you get to pay for you know, are you gonna 103 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: need a filibuster break for this? Uh? You know, Mansion 104 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: hasn't hasn't been willing to concede any kind of changes 105 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: in a way that you need a sixty vote margin 106 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: to prove this bill. So I'm actually pretty optimistic. I 107 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: think that frankly, there's so little respect for deficit spending 108 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: right now that at the end of the day, if 109 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: the government writes a check for this, I think Republicans 110 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: walked a plank because they did it all during the 111 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: Trump administration. And uh, and Democrats won't have that. They're 112 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: fine with that. The question is what kind of tax 113 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: relief does this give Joe Biden if there isn't a 114 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: link to the to the infrastructure bill there, And that's 115 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: a really interesting dilemma. Frome. Well, that's what I want 116 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: to get out here. We're we're hearing the conversations between 117 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: the White House and the Senate Republicans that they're they're 118 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: finding middle ground on what to spend money on, but 119 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: not a ton on how to pay for it and 120 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: how to offset that cost. But then there may be 121 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: a bipartisan group that jumps in, and if that includes 122 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: Joe Manchin, who did call for an increase in the 123 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: corporate tax rate, not quite as high as President Biden 124 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: has who wanted percent, but Joe Manson has said twenty 125 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: percent could be a good meat in the middle kind 126 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: of ideal. The Republicans don't want to do that. Should this, Kevin, 127 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: Should this bipartisan group try to take the lead on 128 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: the pay force? Or who who comes up with this? 129 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: And and how how do they resolve that? Who's who? 130 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: Who do you think should be responsible for actually broaching 131 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: this topic that they've kind of just set aside. Yes, 132 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: it's a good question. You know, I think you're seeing 133 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: some lines in the stand with regards to again these 134 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: pay force. Republicans don't want to revisit this seventeen tax 135 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: scout law. Biden is adamant about the pay force, UH 136 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: for that four marker, So there might be an avenue 137 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: for this bipartisan group to negotiate on those pay force 138 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: specifically got Rob Fordman, longtime center from Ohio, looking at 139 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: retirement in two years. This might be the last kind 140 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: of key component thing that he can negotiate. He's well 141 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: respected within both parties also as a fiscal conservative, but 142 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: a fiscally minded Republican small C conservative. So you have 143 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: some interesting players I think behind the scenes that can negotiate. 144 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: Bolks size on this and and maybe bring bring some 145 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: folks together again with the backdrop of two coming up 146 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: quickly and Republicans are you know, learning some things. I 147 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: think in the wake of the passage of the American 148 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: Rescue Plan only by Democrats, that that could be a 149 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: key thing for Democrats to run on in just two 150 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: years for the midterms. Republicans might want to go in 151 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: on this and take some credit for bringing money back 152 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: to their districts too, with that midtermack midterm backdrop, right, 153 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 1: That's interesting to know that that could potentially help them. Now, Rick, 154 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: you have mentioned previously you're a little skeptical about the 155 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: approach that Biden has taken so far in bipartisan talks, 156 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: in very very publicly making it clear that he's he's 157 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 1: talking in a in a bipartisan way. You've you've mentioned 158 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 1: before that if you really want to get something done 159 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: in Washington, you get people together, you get them in 160 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: a room. It doesn't need to be a big public thing. 161 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: What is the more sex tessful negotiating strategy here? And 162 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: I have to admit I'm confused about what the exact 163 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: negotiating strategy will be because we now have these this 164 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: dual track. You know, two different groups of people having 165 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: this conversation. Is one better than the other? Is the 166 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: White House and Senate Republican conversation more effective or less 167 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: effective than this bipartisan group or what do you make 168 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: of that? Rick? Well, it's hard to not argue that 169 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: he's had some success, right. I mean, we've gotten Republicans 170 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: in one short week go from five sixty to almost 171 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: a trillion dollars in willingness to spend on infrastructure, and 172 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: so something's working behind the scenes. But I but I 173 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: I agree with with your assessment of my views, which is, 174 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: you know, on a deal like this, you want to 175 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: have the deal cooked and then bring it out publicly 176 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: and let everybody shoot at it, and then you have 177 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: the the bipartisan coalition that's defending it, and that includes 178 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: how you're gonna how you're gonna pay for it. And 179 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 1: so the fact is the best possible outcome at at 180 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: this point is sort of a period of chaos through 181 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: this week because after this week, everyone goes on recess 182 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 1: until either the seventh of June or the fourteenth of June, 183 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: and so you're Washington will clear out, and so this 184 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: will be the shooting range that everyone's in right now, 185 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: is what we can get done by Friday and and hopefully, 186 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: uh this chaos, especially on the Republican side, where you know, 187 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: everyone seems to want to get in on the act, 188 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: and I think Kevin's right, there's a lot of people 189 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: who would love to take some credit for this when 190 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: they come home, and so I think you're going to 191 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: see a lot more Republicans wanting to sort of get 192 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: their piece of the action here. Right, Well, it does 193 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: feel like we've got to see some progress, not a deal, 194 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: but progress this week. If something's going to happen, Kevin, 195 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 1: you know, Rick mentioned earlier if Republicans are coming up 196 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: to a trillion dollars. Last we heard from the White 197 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: House was one point seven trillion, but I know the 198 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: Republicans want some of this to be unused money from 199 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: the stimulus before do you do you real quick? Do 200 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: you agree with Rick saying that's actually pretty close, that's 201 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: a manageable gap. Yeah, absolutely, And and I'm in total 202 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: agreement with Rick. And you see kind of the the same numbers. Yeut. 203 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: Republicans have come up about five trillion. The administration has 204 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: come down about five trillion from its two point to 205 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: original offer. So those numbers are certainly encouraging for movement, right, alright, 206 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: so a bridgeable gap probably. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. We've got 207 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: Kevin Walling, democratic strategist at h G Creative Media, and 208 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: a former Biden campaign surrogate with us. We've got Rick Davis, 209 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: a Bloomberg Politics contributor with us. And we've got news 210 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: on what's going to happen in Congress relating to a 211 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: January six, nine eleven style bipartisan commission? Can this actually happen? 212 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: Can there be bipartisan agreement to create this kind of 213 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 1: commission to respond to the riots at the Capitol on 214 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: January six? Well? Senator majority Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer 215 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: has said he wants a vote this week on a 216 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: House past measure that got a lot of Republican opposition 217 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 1: to create a commission. Many Republicans are opposed. Republic in 218 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: the leadership as opposed, although we've heard a little bit 219 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: of interest from Senators Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Mitt Romney 220 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: of Utah. Susan Collins of Maine has talked about tweaks 221 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: that she would like to make to this bill in 222 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: order to get support. But let's boil it down to 223 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: what this is really about. Kevin, you wrote an op 224 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: ed in the Hill titled Bipartisanship is dead. Republicans kill it, 225 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: killed it. You do not seem optimistic about the chances 226 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: of this kind of commission. Tell us what what do 227 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: you expect to happen here? Do you see the Republican 228 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: opposition to creating a commission to study what happened leading 229 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: up to January six and on that day as totally 230 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: an entrenched as this just an intractable divide. Yeah, Jack, 231 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: it's a good question. Thanks for higling the piece in 232 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: the Hill. It's a bit of hyperbole. I'm a big 233 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: by bi partisanship fan, so it was a bit of 234 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: a stretch in terms of making that argument, But you know, 235 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: I compare it to the negotiations that went back in 236 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: two thousands three UM with the setting up of the 237 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: nine eleven Commission, and just what a difference Congress has 238 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: been over these last twenty years in terms of that 239 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: was a voice vote as part of the Intelligence Realthorization 240 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: Bill back into the other three got universal, near universal 241 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: support in both the House and the Senate to establish 242 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: this commission, regardless of where the facts were leaded. Of course, 243 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,719 Speaker 1: that was during the Bush administration UM and Republicans were 244 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: fully on board with that because they wanted an independent 245 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 1: investigation so this would not happen again. And I make 246 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: the same case in the in this piece that we 247 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: need the same kind of body. Let's investigate this January 248 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: sixth attack from this past year. Uh, and I think 249 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: it's anyone's guests. You saw, as you rightly point out, 250 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: Centator's Collins Romney Brokowski making some ways that they would 251 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: be supportive. You saw a release today from Joe Mansion 252 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: and cureson Cinema with regards to the filibuster and saying 253 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: encouraging their Republican colleagues to get on board with this. Obviously, 254 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: the majority of Leader Schumer Chuck Schumer has said that 255 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: he will bring this to the floor regardless of where 256 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: the votes are. Makes Repaul Wliicans actually filibuster this. I 257 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: think you're seeing some Republicans make the calculations, especially those 258 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: in leadership, that they'll take the hit now as opposed 259 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: to having this commission go on for the next year 260 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: or so into the midterms. Will take the heat now 261 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: in terms of the minds of the voters on this one, 262 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: when it is actually popular with the American people. They 263 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: want this kind of investigation, in this kind of accountability. 264 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: So we'll see. These next couple of days are critical, 265 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: as Rick says, We're going out for the Memorial Day 266 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: weekend recess UH in just a few days. So we'll 267 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: see what what plays out in these coming days and hours. 268 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: Even right well, we're looking forward to a Senate vote. 269 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: Let let me be a little glib here, just for 270 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: the purpose of making a point and asking a question, 271 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: don't we know? Don't we know? What happened? This played 272 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: out extremely publicly on January six, UH in honestly a 273 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: terrifying way. What Rick jump in, What do you what 274 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: would you expect to learn from this? Kind of commission 275 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: that we didn't see on TV or from the then 276 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: president's tweets. I mean, I should, I know subpoenas are 277 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: a relevant issue, but why do we need this if 278 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: it played out so publicly? And what do you what 279 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: kind of stuff do you anticipate we would learn from 280 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: this if we do get this kind of commission. Yeah, 281 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: I mean, just a note on the differences too with 282 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: the nine eleven and I totally uh give kudos to 283 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: Kevin for the op ed. I think it's great to 284 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: remind everybody that there was a period of time when 285 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: we had a common enemy that you know, where the 286 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: country was able to come together in a bipartisan, nonpartisan fashion. 287 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: The problem here is that the common enemy was the 288 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: Trump supporters that gathered at the White House and marched 289 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: on the Capitol, right, And so yeah, we looked in 290 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: the mirror and the enemy was us. And so Republicans 291 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: are in a very awkward position here. Even those who 292 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: want legitimately a real investigation tells them how to fix 293 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: these problems of security and also avoid uh these kinds 294 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: of things just from the American public point of view, 295 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: are doing it with the clear understanding that it could potentially, 296 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: if not certainly, implicate the President United States and members 297 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: of his cabinet and Republicans on the Hill themselves. And 298 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: so it's it does have a slightly different dynamic than 299 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: than otherwise. And I think the hope that you know, 300 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: like minded republicans have on who want a commission is 301 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: they want to understand how all the events played that 302 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: got the mob into the ellipse that day, why the 303 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: intelligence didn't give more of a heads up with hundreds 304 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: and thousands of people traveling to Washington on the invitation 305 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: of the President United States to basically, you know, try 306 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: to protest an election and not more security was called 307 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: for well in advance, regardless of what happened that day. Uh, 308 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: you could have seen this coming weeks in advance when 309 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: you checked the message boards of some of these groups 310 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: that participated in this. So I think the idea is 311 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: we were caught off guard, and we we can never 312 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: allow this to happen to our democracy again. Well, clearly, 313 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: some some that's a good point. Some less is to 314 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: be learned about what exactly happened, not just with the 315 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: Capitol Police, but with a slow response from the National Guard. 316 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: And to your point, Rick, you know this came to 317 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: a head on the politics and the difference between this 318 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: and nine eleven when Speaker Pelosi described this as the 319 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: enemy is within. But of course when you use that 320 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: kind of language, it's tough to get bipartisan agreement on something. 321 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: So we'll see a vote later this week in the 322 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: Senate on that commission. I am Jack Fitzpatrick. We've got 323 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: Kevin Walling and Rick Davis here. Now. The big news 324 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: we got earlier today was President Joe Biden will meet 325 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: with Russian President Vladimir Putin in a meeting that was 326 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: in the making for a little while June fifteenth and 327 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: sixteenth in Geneva, Switzerland. Other piece of news on that 328 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: is that Biden will raise the issue of what has 329 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 1: happened in Belarus with the detainment of a dissident who 330 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 1: was on a flight going over Belarus that was forced 331 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: to land in Minsk. Uh. Now, before we get to 332 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: the whole conversation of how these things tie together at 333 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: a time when yes, by the way, Secretary of State 334 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: Anthony B. Lincoln is on a Middle East tour trying 335 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: to address everything that has happened in Israel between Israel 336 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: and Palestine. UH, let's hear from Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman 337 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: Mark Warner, who spoke earlier today with Bloomberg's David Weston 338 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: about this upcoming meeting between Biden and Putin and about Belarus. 339 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 1: Here's the sound on that. I think it's outrageous. You know, 340 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: you've got a third country plane with Ryan Air flying 341 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: from one NATO city to another NATO city and uh, 342 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: this plane in a sense being hijacked. I think this 343 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: goes at the heart of whether the West as a 344 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: as a whole is going to stand up to Russia. Obviously, 345 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: the better US administration is the only reason that President 346 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: still is sitting there is because of support from Putin. 347 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: We've seen dramatic pushback against his autocratic tendencies in the 348 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: streets of Minskin for a number of months, but Putin 349 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: again supports repressive regimes in his neighborhood and frankly around 350 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: the world. And I think we need to stand up 351 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: against this. This cannot be condoned or acceptable. And I 352 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: think it's appropriate that the EU and others ought to 353 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: be taking Western aircraft out of Belarus airspace and for 354 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 1: that matter, cutting back on Belarus UH flights into NATO 355 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: or Western countries. President Biden is confirmed that he will 356 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: have a summit meeting now with President Putin in the 357 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: middle of June over in Geneva, Switzerland. Is that wise? 358 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: I think it's important that we we sit down and 359 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: talk with our adversaries. But let's not forget for a 360 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: moment that Putin has two goals. One to constantly and 361 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: he's done a pretty good job of this. Show disruption 362 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: in the West and under mine America on one level, 363 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: because that's kind of the basis of his foreign policy. 364 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 1: But it's also a way for him to point out 365 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: to the people of Russia, Hey, these democracies don't work 366 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: the or he can undermine democracy throughout the West, it 367 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 1: strengthens his domestic position. And as we've seen with some 368 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 1: of the protests around uh nav only, you know, there 369 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: is a there are a great number of younger Russians 370 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: who are upset with the Putin's policy. So while I 371 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: think it's important that President Biden talked with him, I 372 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: think we need to go in with a realistic eye, 373 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: not the kind of rose colored glasses that Trump had. 374 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: I mean, Trump managed to trash virtually every political leader 375 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: in the world and in our country. The only person 376 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: you never said a bad word about was Latimer Putin. 377 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: I think Joe Biden needs to go in with a 378 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: much more honest assessment recognizing that Russia continues to try 379 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 1: to undermine our system and our democracy, uh, in a 380 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: variety of ways. All right, there's a lot of information there. 381 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: Let me start with the obvious question, because this is 382 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: this is going to be big news in the middle 383 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: of June, the meeting between Biden and Putin, Rick, what's 384 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: on your radar? What do you think the top priorities 385 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: would be there, and what are your expectations for that meeting? 386 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: You know, I think one of the top things since 387 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: you know, falling off the radar screen since last week, 388 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,239 Speaker 1: but you know, cyber security is going to be one 389 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: of the very hot topics. Russia has basically created a 390 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 1: global terror group around cyber that they either sponsor or host, 391 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, we don't have to look far 392 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: from the the incursions out of Russia by a private 393 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: group who held ransom our energy supplying the East coast 394 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: for for a week. So I think that's one. I 395 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: think that to h troops massing on the border of Ukraine, 396 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: I mean, like we were not paying much attention to this, 397 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: but like for weeks on end, there have been huge 398 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 1: amounts of troop movements on the border of Ukine, destabilizing 399 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: the Ukrainian government, which is probably their intent, but doing 400 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 1: it relatively under the cloud of all these other controversies. 401 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: And then when you look at as uh as, as 402 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: Senator Mark Warner pointed out, all the the adventurism by 403 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin and support of people like Belarus's Lukashenko, and 404 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: the repression and and and and things are doing to 405 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: their own communities. I think that human rights is going 406 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: to be a big issue because it's not just happening 407 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: in places like Mintsk, it's happening in in in Moscow too. 408 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: And this repression is exactly what most dictators use, is 409 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: sort of right out of their tool kit of staying 410 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: in power. Right. So those are really good points, and 411 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: it's honestly a little bizarre almost how such important things 412 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: can feel like they've gone a bit under the radar. 413 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: The Ukraine, the troops massing near Ukraine in particular, I mean, 414 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: we all remember two thousand and fourteen, this is a 415 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: very significant kind of threat from Russia. Uh Kevin, are 416 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: we missing anything, What is what is on your radar? 417 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: What are your expectations for this Biden Putin meeting in June. Yeah, 418 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: it's a great question. I you know, completely agree with 419 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: Rack in terms of the focus on hacking cybersecurity, not 420 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: just hacking of our elections in our democracy, but also 421 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: the solar whim hack. You saw the Biden administration respond 422 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: with increased sanctions in April, probably one of the lowest 423 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: points we've seen in terms of our bilateral relationship with 424 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: Russia and our ambassadors coming home, not being recalled, but 425 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: obviously coming home for consultation. But this meeting falls right 426 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: after the president's first international trip to the G seven, 427 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: to the Native Summit, so he will be meeting with 428 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: our allies in the region directly before meeting with Putin 429 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: in Geneva, as you point out, But I think it's 430 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: certainly gonna be focusing on the cyber security realm a 431 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: little bit probably on negotiations around where the start trading 432 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: goes from there. That was one of the interesting things 433 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: to come at just in the first weeks of the 434 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: Biden administration and a five year increasing that I'll just say, 435 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: at the point of personal privilege, this is one of 436 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: these times, and there are many that I wish Rick's 437 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: former boss still with the Senator John mccamp because he 438 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: was such an expert on this region and we could 439 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: certainly meet use his insights right now in terms of 440 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: not just Russia, but also this former soby Block States 441 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: as well. Good points from both of you. This is 442 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick here 443 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: with Kevin Walling, democratic strategist at h G Creative Media 444 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 1: and a former Biden campaign surrogate and Bloomberg Politics contributor, 445 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: Rick Davis. Really excited to talk to Rick in particular, 446 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: who worked for so long for John McCain, about what's 447 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: happening UH in UH, in Russia and in Belarus. A 448 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: lot of questions to h to answer here. Thanks to 449 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: you both for joining now. Look, we're getting into the 450 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: Belarus discussion, and I'm curious what exactly the US role 451 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: is because we had news the other day about the 452 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: EU agreeing to sanctions there or even some images circulating 453 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: today of flight traffic maps showing the lack of flight 454 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: traffic expectedly over Belarus. But what does the US do now? 455 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: This came up at today's White House Press briefing, Let's 456 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: listen to what Press Secretary Jen Saki had to say. 457 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: It's only been a few days, it's not not been 458 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: that long. I will say that the President has asked 459 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: his team to develop appropriate options in close coordination with 460 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: the European Union, are allies and other international organizations to 461 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: help hold the Lukashenko regime to account, including sanctions. Okay, So, Rick, 462 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: what are the options that she's referring to? What what 463 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: is in our bag of possibilities here? What are the options? 464 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: And how important it is it for the US to 465 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: even respond to this. There's been a response from the EU, 466 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: but how important is is it for the US to respond? 467 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: And what might that response look like? Rick, Jack, I 468 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: think it's really important that the US respond, and the 469 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: reason being is because we've had a very spotty record 470 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: on Belarus right during the the Trump administration. Just fourteen 471 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: months ago, Secretary A. Pompeo visited Minsk to have a 472 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: meeting with Lukashenko, who, prior to that was seen as 473 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: pretty much of a thug and a tool of Vladimir 474 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: Putin's and and and it was the first time in 475 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: over twenty five years that a official from the United 476 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: States sort of UH created legitimacy around this government. And 477 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: so we go from there to fourteen months later to 478 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: having this crisis, and I think it's got to be 479 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: clear where the United States stands. I mean, as Kevin 480 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: pointed out, you know, we missed John McCain. John McCain 481 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: called these guys thugs and killers because they are thugs 482 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 1: and killers. And yet you know, we have to have 483 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: a policy that associates with them. And I think that 484 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: joining the EU UH and making sure that the world community, 485 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: what we can do is in America is to put 486 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,199 Speaker 1: our allies on notice that we want everyone focused on 487 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: this and to create regimes around it, a sanctions regime 488 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: that isn't just unilateral. What the United States will do 489 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: to Baila russ is probably not that big a deal, 490 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: but the United States could create a global coalition of 491 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: people who can put a lot of pressure not just 492 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: on on Belarus but also on Vladimir Putin. There's no 493 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: question that Lukashenko would not be in charge in Belarus 494 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: today if not for following the Putin playbook and being 495 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: a Putin stooge in that part of the world. That 496 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: those are two I think two important points I just 497 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: want to underline by Rick. One, the question it doesn't 498 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: seem to just be what are the sanctions, but who 499 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: do you legitimize? What do you do to legitimize certain leaders? 500 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: H and who do you not legitimize? Um? Now, I 501 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to to try to wrap my head around, uh, 502 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: in foreign policy, how much has happened that is part 503 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: of the Biden playbook and how much is really out 504 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: of the blue. It seemed like the tensions in the 505 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: Middle East between Israel and Palestine was really not obviously 506 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: not planned for Biden, but it was a bit of 507 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 1: a contradiction in fact, to how they seem to I 508 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: to focus early on on an East Asia plan. But 509 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: when it comes to Belarus and Russia, obviously there was 510 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: discussion for so long about an eventual meeting between Biden 511 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: and Putin, and yet obviously what we saw with Belarus 512 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: was unpredictable. Kevin, how do you how do you round 513 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: up when it comes to Biden setting a foreign policy agenda, 514 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: how much has gone to plan and how much has 515 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,959 Speaker 1: just sort of popped up and surprised him. Yeah, it's 516 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: a great question, Jack, I mean, I think you're seeing 517 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 1: this administration react to a bunch of these different things 518 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: around the world, and also domestically obviously with the pipeline hack. Uh, 519 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: you know, the response in terms of a cybersecurity Executive 520 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: Order and beefing that up. But you know, you're seeing 521 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: a lot of things happen and the Biden administration reacting 522 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: to that. You bring up the situation with Israel and Hamas, 523 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: and what we saw kind of coming out of that 524 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: was a bit more of the silent behind the scenes 525 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: diplomacy that the president was known for is eight years, 526 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: is vice president thirty six years in the Senate. Behind 527 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: the scenes obviously, as you pointed out to our secretary 528 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: stage is in the region today, meeting with meeting that 529 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: Yahoo beating with the box later on in Ramala, that 530 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: meeting has already happened, So kind of deputizing his trusted 531 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: allies around him, his trusted staff rather in the Secretary 532 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: of State has been by the President's side for twenty 533 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: plus years. So I think you're seeing a reactive administration, 534 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: but also wanting to project America back as an indispensable 535 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: part of the world community as we were I think 536 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: in the years during Bush Obama kind of previous to 537 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: the Trump administration, but now also to under a President Biden. Right, 538 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: by the way, I blanked before when I was highlighting 539 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: the points that Rick made. The other important point on 540 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: Belarus is how much of this goes through Russia, goes 541 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: through Putin and Putin's broader influence. Now, one thing that 542 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: Senator Warner mentioned in the clip we played, UH that 543 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,719 Speaker 1: we haven't discussed that I just want to touch on 544 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: is the role of younger Russians and how that affects 545 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: domestic politics in Russia and how they what their outlook 546 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: is to the rest of the world. Rick, can you 547 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: just touch on that. I mean, what's the role of 548 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: younger Russians, UH, in terms of their relationship to Putin, 549 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: their support or opposition to Putin, and how important is 550 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: the the younger generation in Russia. You know, I think 551 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: it's a really good point that Senator Warner made because 552 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: he's looking sort of beyond the headlines and and looking 553 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: at what's been going on in Russia for some time. 554 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: And we've seen reporting over the last year about a 555 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: protest movement that's been fueled by young people UH in 556 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: Russia against Vladimir Putin and and the the leader of 557 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: that opposition, navalny Uh you know, was a highly visible 558 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: issue on the front page of every newspaper for a 559 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: long time after having gotten poisoned by Vladimir put In 560 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: his regime, not unlike a lot of other opposition figures 561 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: in the past, and and and is now uh in 562 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: a in a Russian gulag, you know, a waiting action 563 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: on on his cause. And so I think that that 564 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: we can show optimism to Russian youth to say there 565 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: are people out there, like the United States, that care 566 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: about what's going on there and think that they ought 567 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: to have the freedoms and the liberties afforded to other 568 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: people around the world. Especially since the Vladimir Putin makes 569 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: a big deal every four years about acting as if 570 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: he's a functioning democracy. Well, let's let's let that turn 571 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: back on him and and make sure these people all 572 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: know that they should have an opportunity to pick their leaders. 573 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: This is this is my time for a radio book club. 574 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: Rick you ever read the book came out a few 575 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: years ago, The Future is History by Masha Guessen. Yes, 576 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: I thought I thought that was a very good sort 577 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: of recent history of the protest movement and sort of 578 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: generational divide. I guess that's my my official book recommendation 579 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,479 Speaker 1: on this topic of the day. Uh, let's talk Middle 580 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: East now. The Secretary of State Anthony B. Lincoln says 581 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: the US is going to provide more than a hundred 582 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: million dollars total aid that will go to Gaza. I'm curious, Kevin, 583 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: so much political pressure surrounding this issue on Biden when 584 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: we heard from a number of Democrats very quickly calling 585 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: for a ceasefire. There's the issue of the arms sale 586 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: from the US to Israel. Does an action like this 587 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: and what we've seen from B. Lincoln talking about helping 588 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: rebuild Gaza to some extent, does that hold over critics 589 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: of the US's stance with Israel or or is this 590 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: just a really tough issue that's not going away. Yeah, Jack, 591 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: it's a good question. I think it's more of the latter. 592 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: There will be always critics, as we've seen within my 593 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: own party in terms of Democrats with you know, this 594 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: potential arms sae to to Israel, UM, what have you. 595 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,239 Speaker 1: But you know, I think you're seeing a little bit 596 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: of a change in tone in terms of the US 597 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: administration to the Middle East. UM. You saw a fairly 598 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: successful meeting with Sabas. Today, I think you're seeing administration 599 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: and a lot of pressure on the buy administration to 600 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: make sure that the aid is directly going to benefit 601 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: the Palestine and people not just in the West Bank, 602 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: but obviously the two million or so folks in in Gaza. 603 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: And to further uh, you know, destroy um de legimiz 604 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: isolate Hamas as part of that, because I think we 605 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: need to make the case to the House standing people 606 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: that we are on their side in terms of negotiating 607 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: a two states solution in good faith. Hamas will not 608 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: ever be part of what that negotiation will take place. 609 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: So we've got to isolate them, give some hope back 610 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: to the Palestines living in Gaza, the West Bank, what 611 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: have you. And I think you're seeing a little bit 612 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: of that from this Secretary of State in that region today, right. 613 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: I just want to briefly touch on one other issue 614 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: that came up today. This was the anniversary of the 615 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: death of George Floyd, and that was also supposed to 616 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: be the deadline that President Biden gave lawmakers to try 617 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: to agree to a police policy overhaul bill and get 618 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 1: it to his desk. Clearly, that hasn't happened, but there 619 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: are discussions going on. A recent quote from Senator Corey 620 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: Booker saying, we're a lot closer, but it's not imminent. Kevin, 621 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: are you hopeful that there's actually going to be a 622 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: deal on some federal policing policy overhaul or where do 623 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: we stand in this? I really am. You've got three 624 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 1: of the best lawmakers I think in terms of Tam 625 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: Scott Correy, Booker in the Senate, in Karen Dass in 626 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,399 Speaker 1: the House, who had the Congressional Black Caucus. They're negotiationing 627 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: behind the scenes. The administration is very hands off as 628 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,879 Speaker 1: our Senate and House leadership. I think that's the way 629 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: to do it. Let them bring these solutions to their 630 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: colleagues and get it pasted. All right. Kevin Walling, Democratic 631 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: strategist at h G Creative Media, former Biden campaign serge, 632 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us, and, as he 633 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 1: so often is, Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor, very insightful. 634 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: That's it for us. I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. This is Bloomberg 635 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: m