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Speaker 1: Amy Chan is the founder of renewed Breakup boot Camp,

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Speaker 1: a retreat that takes a scientific and spiritual approach to

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Speaker 1: the healing heart. She is also the editor in chief

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Speaker 1: of hart Hackers Club. Amy has also been referred to

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Speaker 1: you know, I love this one as a relationship expert

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Speaker 1: whose work is like that of a scientific Carrie Bradshaw.

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Speaker 1: She's been featured on Good Morning America, Vogue, Glamour Nightline,

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Speaker 1: in the front page of The New York Times. Her book,

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Speaker 1: Breakup boot Camp, The Science of Rewiring Your Heart was

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Speaker 1: published by HarperCollins and an instant Amazon bestseller. She's also

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Speaker 1: just one of my favorite people and has joined us

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Speaker 1: on the podcast many times before. Amy, Hi, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being here.

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Speaker 2: Ry, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Welcome our topic this month that told you was shedding,

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Speaker 1: and so we got a listener email that I thought, huh,

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Speaker 1: is this an interesting question to ask a relationship expert

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Speaker 1: about platonic male female relationships once you get involved into

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Speaker 1: a romantic relationship, Like, is that something that we should

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Speaker 1: be shedding? Chip? Do you want to go ahead and

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Speaker 1: read the email for us?

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Speaker 3: Sure? It reads I dated a man for a while

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Speaker 3: and he continually mentioned his female best friend straight out

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Speaker 3: of the gate. He said that that they took a

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Speaker 3: trip together for his thirtieth birthday years back. Obviously a

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Speaker 3: very long time female friend. The top line issue he

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Speaker 3: never introduced us. There were three instances where he chose

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Speaker 3: her over me and quote unquote forgot about me. In

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Speaker 3: one of the situations, someone even assumed she was his girlfriend,

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Speaker 3: which made me wonder. Early on in our relationship, he

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Speaker 3: spent the night at her house when she was wait

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Speaker 3: He spent the night at her house when she was

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Speaker 3: not there because he rents his house as an airbnb

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Speaker 3: and it overlapped. I was not ready for him to

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Speaker 3: stay with me overnight. He reassured me that she wasn't

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Speaker 3: there when he spent the night. He told me that

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Speaker 3: part of the reason he moved to Nashville was because

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Speaker 3: of her. They were the same age, she is highly successful.

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Speaker 3: At one point, I kind of felt like we could

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Speaker 3: friends and get along as we seemed interested in similar things.

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Speaker 3: Did she even know he was dating someone while she

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Speaker 3: was hanging out with him. That's hard for me to

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Speaker 3: comprehend because if she did, I personally wouldn't be spending

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Speaker 3: that kind of time with someone out of pure respect.

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Speaker 3: I have also never been a jealous person and took

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Speaker 3: the upside of things, but this one has me a

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Speaker 3: bit rocked. A month after we stopped talking, I found

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Speaker 3: out he took her along on one of his work trips,

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Speaker 3: took excursions with her in advance, basically doing things with

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Speaker 3: her that I wanted to do, things I suggested that

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Speaker 3: we do. He did this with a friend. My question is,

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Speaker 3: do you think it's appropriate to heavily maintain slash spend

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Speaker 3: time with male slash female friends or friends of the

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Speaker 3: opposite sex when you're dating dating to build a relationship.

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Speaker 1: Well, Amy, I will just go ahead and defare write

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Speaker 1: to you.

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Speaker 3: Okay, it's a sticky one.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm going to start with a general response

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Speaker 2: and then going to zoom into her specific situation. Generally speaking,

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Speaker 2: it is totally okay to have friends of the opposite sex,

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Speaker 2: and in fact, it is healthy. Having friends of the

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Speaker 2: opposite sex can give you perspective, and it's not like, ooh,

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Speaker 2: you know, once you pass your teens, if you're like

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Speaker 2: friends with someone in the opposite sex and it has

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Speaker 2: to be sexual, it's not. And I'll go back into

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Speaker 2: the zoomed out version after I talked about the situation.

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Speaker 2: In this specific situation, we have what on on our hands,

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Speaker 2: something called a third And in any relationship, a third

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Speaker 2: can be a controlling mother in law, it could be

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Speaker 2: this best friend that kind of crosses limits. A third

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Speaker 2: is something or someone that threatens the bond and partnership

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Speaker 2: between the two people who are in the relationship and

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Speaker 2: they're typically is a period of time where there's a transition.

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Speaker 2: So when two people get together, maybe they do have

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Speaker 2: that best friend that used to do everything together, and

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Speaker 2: then there's like a gradual kind of shifting and limits

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Speaker 2: are put. Not that you abandon the friendship, but that

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Speaker 2: friendship looks a little bit different, and you want to

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Speaker 2: as a partner, make sure that your partner knows that

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Speaker 2: they are the priority, that the relationship is the priority,

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Speaker 2: and if they're uncomfortable, then you have conversations about that

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Speaker 2: and things are renegotiated. You can't live your bachelor life

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Speaker 2: like you did or your bachelorette life like you did

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Speaker 2: when you are creating a partnership with someone. So in

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Speaker 2: this case, it seems like the third was this best

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Speaker 2: friend and maybe the intention was innocent, but the reality

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Speaker 2: is it was impacting the person who is in the relationship,

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Speaker 2: the girlfriend, and impacting them in a negative way, and

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Speaker 2: it seemed like the boyfriend didn't really care. And he's like, well,

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Speaker 2: I used to do it like this. I used to

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Speaker 2: have these trips, I used to do the sleepovers. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to just keep doing the thing that I want

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Speaker 2: to do. And unfortunately that shows that this person isn't

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Speaker 2: that we oriented and it's really like, well, what feels

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Speaker 2: good for me, what's comfortable for me and you? If

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Speaker 2: you want a partnership, you need to build that muscle

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Speaker 2: and that skill to think for we to think as

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Speaker 2: a team. And this relationship, whether it was this best

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Speaker 2: friend being an issue or it's later on down the road,

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Speaker 2: maybe they have a family, there's gonna be another thing

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Speaker 2: where it shows he's going to choose being selfish and

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Speaker 2: what he wants to do and she's just shit out

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Speaker 2: of luck.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you can edge.

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Speaker 3: I love it already.

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Speaker 1: I love that you're doing the version of it where

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Speaker 1: it's just about more about being selfish versus the laser

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Speaker 1: focus of this specific relationship because it just looks to

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Speaker 1: me the same. It's not thinking as the team. And

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Speaker 1: so my other question would be at what point because

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Speaker 1: she did mention this was like beginning stages. You know,

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Speaker 1: this seems like maybe they didn't date that long. I'm

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Speaker 1: not even sure if they're still together. But at what

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Speaker 1: point should we start kind of analyzing our life and

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Speaker 1: looking at our relationships outside of our romantic relationship that

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Speaker 1: we just began? Like does that that? Did that word

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Speaker 1: that in a way that makes sense? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So, like, is there a time point in the relationship

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Speaker 2: where it's like, okay, like let's kind of do an

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Speaker 2: inventory of all the threats of the relationship.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean because at the beginning, you don't know

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Speaker 1: if you're going to stay with someone, right, Like, if

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Speaker 1: you just go on a couple dates with someone, it's

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Speaker 1: not like you should uproot your entire life or the

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Speaker 1: way you do things. Yet.

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Speaker 2: For sure, Yeah, I think there's a point in time

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Speaker 2: where it's no longer just dating, and it's two people

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Speaker 2: who've made a conscious decision of we're going to choose

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Speaker 2: to level up and deepen the investment in this commitment

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Speaker 2: and we are walking on a path of building a partnership.

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Speaker 2: When you make that decision, then things do start to change.

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Speaker 2: You have to start thinking about Okay, my apartment, we

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Speaker 2: want to live together. Are they just going to move

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Speaker 2: into my you know, single bachelor place with all my

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Speaker 2: stuff here, or are we going to think we like,

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Speaker 2: there's all these decisions that you have to start to

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Speaker 2: make that are different from when you were just purely

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Speaker 2: a single person.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like she was maybe picking up on

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Speaker 1: the instinct that he wasn't operating as a partnership at all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And it also does it also doesn't. It's not

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Speaker 3: that clear how long the relationship was. She just said

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Speaker 3: I dated for a while, So I wonder if she

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Speaker 3: the writer was further along mentally than he was in

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Speaker 3: the relationship and he you know, like, I mean, it

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Speaker 3: seems like there was a decent amount of time, but

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Speaker 3: like this could have been too much.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. And I can also understand from the person who

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Speaker 3: wrote this her perspective of like not wanting to seem

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Speaker 3: like a bitch to the best friend, because then she's

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Speaker 3: gonna be in easy ear about like why are you

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Speaker 3: dating this girl? She doesn't seem like anyone that you

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Speaker 3: should be with, Like, she doesn't seem to trust our relationship.

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Speaker 3: So it's a really touchy sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: To walk it seems like, yeah, that's a really good

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Speaker 2: point ship. And ultimately, in this case, it is up

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Speaker 2: to the boyfriend to create those limits and boundaries. It's

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Speaker 2: not hers. When there's a third right and now zooming out.

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Speaker 2: If you have a mother that's constantly controlling, like looking

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Speaker 2: into your life and they're coming into your relationship, it's

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Speaker 2: not the wife's responsibility to then have a conversation with

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Speaker 2: her mother in law. She talks to her husband. The

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Speaker 2: husband's like, Okay, I'm going to take care of this,

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Speaker 2: and the husband goes and does his thing to make

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Speaker 2: sure that he's protecting the relationship bubble.

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Speaker 1: So ultimately, men and women it's totally fine to be

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Speaker 1: friends and they can't be like, it's not like you're

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Speaker 1: attracted to every man or woman in this world.

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Speaker 2: And let's be realistic here. You can be friends with

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Speaker 2: someone of the opposite sex and maybe they do think

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Speaker 2: you're really pretty mm hmm. There's gonna be people who

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Speaker 2: are going to be attracted to you. There's going to

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Speaker 2: be people that you're going to look at you, Oh,

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Speaker 2: you're attractive, But it's ultimately up to you as a

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Speaker 2: person in a relationship that is committed that if you've

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Speaker 2: chosen loyalty and monogamy, that you stay in integrity with that.

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Speaker 2: And you can't control all of the factors that are

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Speaker 2: going to be happening in the world. And if this

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Speaker 2: person looks at you this way, and like someone compl

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Speaker 2: compliments you, you can't control all of that, right, right,

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Speaker 2: and and so like I like, for me personally, I

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Speaker 2: have a lot of friends male female, and I'm sure, yeah,

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Speaker 2: some of them probably think I'm hot maybe, but I

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Speaker 2: was single, they would date me. That's not my it's

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Speaker 2: not my problem. Like I know my boundaries, I know

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Speaker 2: where I'm going. I don't want to date them. Like

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Speaker 2: I'm committed to my partnership. So it's not about like, ooh,

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Speaker 2: let's pluck out anyone who thinks Amy's pretty.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I also like in my relationship with my boyfriend, we

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Speaker 3: you know, it's like if we see someone we think

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Speaker 3: is hot, like we started very early allowing the other

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Speaker 3: person to say it, you know what I mean, because

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Speaker 3: it's like there's no reason why we sho why that

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Speaker 3: should in my opinion, there's no reason why my opinion

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Speaker 3: of what someone looks like should change. It doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: I want to sleep with them. But I can note

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Speaker 3: if a hot person walks by, just like I can

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Speaker 3: note that a beautiful woman walks by and I don't

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Speaker 3: want to sleep with her, you know. Like, so I

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Speaker 3: you know, I think it's it is really about like

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Speaker 3: setting the boundaries early on, because you know, if it's

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Speaker 3: not if it's an unspoken thing and you don't know,

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Speaker 3: and then suddenly you start doing something out of the

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Speaker 3: blue that make somebody really uncomfortable, it might kind of

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Speaker 3: be too late, like you might like have lost that

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Speaker 3: battle and could you know, cause a much worse fight,

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Speaker 3: I would think, you know. So, I think it's like

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Speaker 3: for boundaries like this, they need to be discussed pretty

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Speaker 3: early on. And this seemed like, you know, it was

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Speaker 3: an obvious thing right out of the get go, you know,

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Speaker 3: Like so maybe maybe the writer I don't know what

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Speaker 3: her name is, but maybe she just took too long

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Speaker 3: to like address it and it became something that like

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Speaker 3: was so much bigger than it needed to be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think.

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Speaker 2: It is important that there is when, especially in the

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Speaker 2: beginning stages of building, there has to be a sense

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Speaker 2: of safety. Yeah, And so, like some people might have

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Speaker 2: an issue with the best friend, some people might not.

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Speaker 2: I know again, personally, my when I just started dating

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Speaker 2: my partner, my boyfriend went on a meditation retreat with

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Speaker 2: his best friend who's a girl, and I was like, amazing,

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Speaker 2: this is awesome, Yeah, have a fun time. Like I

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Speaker 2: just didn't like if I was really if there was

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Speaker 2: something about the relationship or us that I was a

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Speaker 2: little bit insecure about, maybe I wouldn't have been so

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Speaker 2: open minded about it. And I think, like, yeah, it

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Speaker 2: is sometimes it's not rational, right, Like you might be like, what,

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Speaker 2: I've known this person, they're like a sibling to me,

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Speaker 2: and your new partner feels a little bit weird. And again,

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Speaker 2: if you want to invest in the relationship, then you

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Speaker 2: want to then focus like, Okay, what can I do

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Speaker 2: to create a sense of safety that is reasonable? And

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Speaker 2: when a foundation is built and you feel connected and

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Speaker 2: two people feel safe, a lot of these things are

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Speaker 2: just symptomatic of something else.

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Speaker 1: It's so true. Would I totally agree the guy that

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Speaker 1: I'm dating currently, his best friend is a girl, and

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Speaker 1: I've never and of all people, tip, I think you

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Speaker 1: would be like oof because I have typically in the

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Speaker 1: past had a hard time just because of being cheated

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Speaker 1: on in the past and things like that, this relationship

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Speaker 1: has never once bothered me, but it's because of the

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Speaker 1: way he's handled it. And like I've met her, I

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Speaker 1: know the reader the writer mentioned that she never was introduced,

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Speaker 1: And sometimes it just takes that one simple thing and

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Speaker 1: it removes all the questions. You feel totally comfortable because

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Speaker 1: you feel included, and then there's no guessing. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the boundaries. I know we've mentioned that word

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Speaker 1: a couple times. What are some good boundaries that people

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Speaker 1: can set if they do find themselves in a situation

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Speaker 1: like this where their partner is best friends or friends

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Speaker 1: with someone from the opposite sex.

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Speaker 2: So are you asking the case of like this boyfriend,

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Speaker 2: what he could have done.

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Speaker 1: Well, maybe let's do both. What could the girlfriend make, Like,

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Speaker 1: what are some requests that maybe she could make to

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Speaker 1: ask for safety? You know, like she obviously didn't feel safe,

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Speaker 1: so was there something she asked from him? And then

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Speaker 1: let's talk about maybe from the boyfriend's perspective, what are

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Speaker 1: some and that if you are the one in the

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Speaker 1: situation where you have the friend of the opposite sex,

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Speaker 1: that maybe you could be aware of or kind of

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Speaker 1: keep on your radar. Et cetera.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, So if I was a girl, this is

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Speaker 2: what I would have said to my boyfriend. I'd be like, hey,

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Speaker 2: I know you have this really incredible friendship and I really,

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Speaker 2: you know, want to respect that, and I really want

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Speaker 2: to like continue building our relationship. I would love to

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Speaker 2: meet her. That would make me feel really comfortable. And

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Speaker 2: I know that you, you know, have a history of

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Speaker 2: like doing these things together, and I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: encroach on your time. This is what would make me

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Speaker 2: feel really comfortable meeting her maybe once in a while.

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Speaker 2: Coming along to a thing, you know, then you kind

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Speaker 2: of state your preferences. You're not making a demand. You're

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Speaker 2: not being like, well, I need to go to that

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Speaker 2: thing then, because when you make a demand, what happens

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Speaker 2: is automatically people have two reactions. They are either going

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Speaker 2: to bell against you and be like fuck you, or

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Speaker 2: they're going to comply and then they're going to resent you.

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Speaker 2: So they have to ultimately choose. You can only say

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Speaker 2: to preference. That's what I would say. I would let

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Speaker 2: them know how to make it comfortable for me.

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Speaker 1: Okay. And then if you're the boyfriend and your partner

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Speaker 1: expresses to you certain things that you would you know,

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Speaker 1: the safety pieces or whatever. Then what do you need

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Speaker 1: to be alert or aware of within your relationship with

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Speaker 1: the friend?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think at that point you have to

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Speaker 2: if you're in this situation, if you're the guy, you

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Speaker 2: have to like look at what is my partner asking? Okay?

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Speaker 2: And is it reasonable? Like if you were in their position,

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Speaker 2: like like are they totally being crazy? Because I think

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Speaker 2: sometimes we get defensive. We're like, oh, you're being crazy

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Speaker 2: or being sensitive, but like really are they? Am I

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Speaker 2: doing everything that I possibly can to create a safe

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Speaker 2: container for my partner and like be really honest with

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Speaker 2: you yourself, and if you don't know, I would really

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Speaker 2: get a second opinion, probably from a professional expert, not

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Speaker 2: someone who's just going to agree with you. That will

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Speaker 2: help you. And then when you go to your best

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Speaker 2: friend or whatnot, I wouldn't blame it on your like

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, you know what, my girlfriend doesn't really like

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Speaker 2: us hanging out, just be like, you know, I know,

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Speaker 2: we had like that trip scheduled together and like I'm

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Speaker 2: dating this person. It's going really well, and I think

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Speaker 2: just so I could like really make her feel comfortable

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Speaker 2: and also like be able to have some time with her.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna pause on the trip and like, why don't

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Speaker 2: we instead, like just do a dinner together, Like you're

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Speaker 2: gonna also like into create your best friend and your

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Speaker 2: new friend. And look, in this situation, this guy's best

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Speaker 2: friend was getting all of the emotional connection without being

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Speaker 2: in a relationship. Of course she's gonna make it obviously, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and she probably is like whether you know, I'm sure

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Speaker 2: she's a good person, but probably deep down she's probably

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Speaker 2: protective of this relationship that was really nourishing for her.

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Speaker 2: She probably doesn't want to let it go either.

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Speaker 1: That's what I was going to say, because there's that

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Speaker 1: thing where like, if you're in the relationship, you have

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Speaker 1: this friendship with this person of the opposite sex, what

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Speaker 1: needs can you get met ultimately that you wouldn't then

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Speaker 1: have to turn to your partner, you know, Like if

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Speaker 1: you start talking to your friend about the issues you

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Speaker 1: and your partner are having, that's bad for the relationship, right,

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Speaker 1: And so it's like where do where do you draw

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Speaker 1: the line? Though, especially if it's your like best friend,

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Speaker 1: your confidant, that you usually go to. Something about it

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Speaker 1: being the opposite sex to me always seems to kind

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Speaker 1: of ping me a little more of like, oh, but

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Speaker 1: they could be going and getting their emotional needs met there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I think it's a valid fear, right, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we want to be able to de risk as much

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Speaker 2: as possible so that we don't get hurt or we

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Speaker 2: don't get betrayed. But ultimately, when you choose someone, the

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Speaker 2: you know, the whole is you are going to be

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Speaker 2: in integrity and the partner you've chosen is also going

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Speaker 2: to be an integrity And there's only so much we

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Speaker 2: can do control to control them. Yeah, and she drops right. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean what's interesting too, is like in the paradigm

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Speaker 3: that we're talking about now about opposite sex, Like if

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Speaker 3: you think about it gay and relate gay and lesbian relationships,

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Speaker 3: like most gays they're best friends or men, right, and

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Speaker 3: most lesbian's best friends are women. So it's like you're

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Speaker 3: kind of dealing with it all the time. Yea, And

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Speaker 3: so I think it is. I think Amy brings up

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Speaker 3: the best point is like you just have to like

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Speaker 3: have faith in like the integrity of the person that

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Speaker 3: you're choosing to be with. I mean in the in

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Speaker 3: a in a in the straight scenario. Like, my concern

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Speaker 3: would be that, like if say I'm the man and

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Speaker 3: I'm talking to my female best friend about thing issues

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Speaker 3: in my relationship to get like a woman's perspective, Like,

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Speaker 3: I wonder if the chance of, like because you're being

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Speaker 3: vulnerable and you're talking about things that are not going

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Speaker 3: well in your relationship, if it opens up a portal

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Speaker 3: in your friendship that wasn't really there that's when I met,

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Speaker 3: like something that happened that like wasn't there before. Then

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Speaker 3: you start having real problems because the emotional connection changes.

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Speaker 3: It's not just I love you, you're my best friend,

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Speaker 3: it's like, wait a minute, I haven't seen this vulnerable

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Speaker 3: side of you, and I'm falling in love with you,

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Speaker 3: and maybe that I think that could be a real concern.

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Speaker 3: But I also think that probably happens in the game

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Speaker 3: the gay on the gay side of things as well.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I think ultimately our relationship there are things

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Speaker 2: that are sacred. And if you find you're constantly going

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Speaker 2: to your friend, whether they're same sex, opposite sex, whatever,

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Speaker 2: and you're you're kind of spilling the secrets and the

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Speaker 2: deepest intimacies of your relationship, there's something that's unhealthy there. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so either you know, get professional help, or you know,

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Speaker 2: like take a step back and look at why you're

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Speaker 2: going to your friend and revealing all this stuff that

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Speaker 2: is actually meant to be you having a conversation with

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Speaker 2: your partner to deal with it. Sometimes we don't deal

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Speaker 2: with our own partner because we're just talking to someone else.

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Speaker 1: About it, right, well, right, And the stakes are higher

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Speaker 1: when you're dealing with your partner. There's emotions, there's the

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Speaker 1: relationship couldn't the relationship could be on the line with

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Speaker 1: those conversations like hard conversations, and stakes are just so

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Speaker 1: much higher in a romantic situation. Then if you're just

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Speaker 1: venting to a friend, right yeah. Yeah. So if this

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Speaker 1: person was a client of yours and came to you

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Speaker 1: and said exactly what she said in the email to you,

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Speaker 1: are there any major red flags that you would just say, well,

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Speaker 1: we should take note of this. Is it just to

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Speaker 1: go back to she obviously didn't feel safe. As the

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Speaker 1: bigger picture.

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Speaker 2: I would have first worked with her to do whatever

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Speaker 2: she could to communicate and know that she's kind of

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Speaker 2: done her part. And if she communicated and he was

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Speaker 2: like I don't care, then Yeah, like that's showing it

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Speaker 2: right now, like this person is not a team player

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Speaker 2: with you, and so yes, get out. But if she

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Speaker 2: kind of was like, oh well I kind of don't

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Speaker 2: want to say anything and maybe he should just know.

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Speaker 2: I would then focus on, well, why do you not

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Speaker 2: communicate your needs or you push them down? What's there?

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Speaker 2: What's the root of that? And we would work on

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Speaker 2: that versus before we work on him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh I love these points.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 1: As I mentioned before, Amy is the founder of the

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Speaker 1: Breakup boot Camp, which I have attended. It was very

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Speaker 1: helpful in my life. But you've also now started a podcast,

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Speaker 1: so it's much more accessible to people to learn about

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Speaker 1: the rules of the Breakup boot Camp. I guess if

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Speaker 1: you will, do you want to tell us what we

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Speaker 1: can find on the podcast?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, So it's seven episodes. Each episode is on

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Speaker 2: a different stage of the healing process because you need

415
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 2: different strategies depending on where you're at. So what you're

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00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 2: gonna do in the shock stage, it's very different than

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Speaker 2: when you're in the denial stage. And it really whether

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Speaker 2: you're in a breakup or you're not. It just really

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Speaker 2: goes into the science and psychology of relationship patterns. Why

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Speaker 2: do we choose the people we do? Why do we

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Speaker 2: act codependent? Why don't we stay at our boundaries? Why

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Speaker 2: do we go for the unavailable person? We so often

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Speaker 2: we think it's because of our ex. It's our ex's fault.

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Speaker 2: They're like this, But like, it's never just about the X.

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Speaker 2: It's recycled paid. And if we don't figure out our patterns,

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Speaker 2: they don't magically disappear through time. They follow you from

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Speaker 2: relationship to relationship.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just about finding the new relationship and

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Speaker 1: then you're fixed. I tried that one, guys. Just let

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Speaker 1: me to just tell you it's not about that. Well,

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00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 1: you guys, go check out that podcast. I'll put the

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Speaker 1: link in the description of this podcast Amywhere else can

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Speaker 1: people find You.

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Speaker 2: Can follow me on Instagram at miss amy chan on

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Speaker 2: my website is renew Breakup bootcamp dot com.

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Speaker 1: Amazing, And again I'll put all of that in the

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00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 1: description of this podcast. Thank you so much for being here.

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Speaker 1: It is always such a pleasure.

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Speaker 3: So good to finally meet you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, nice to me too.

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Speaker 1: Thank you guys for listening.