Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 1: Done done, Hello, and welcome to another episode of your
Speaker 1: favorite podcast That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast. I'm one
Speaker 1: of your hosts, Kara Klink, and I'm Elisa Tragger, and
Speaker 1: we're pumped here.
Speaker 3: We do SVU and then we.
Speaker 2: Talk true crime and you know up top, we catch
Speaker 2: up a little bit and we pretend we don't see
Speaker 2: each other almost every day. And this will be our
Speaker 2: third intro in a road talking about Halloween.
Speaker 1: I'm eating Halloween candy right now, baby at nine am.
Speaker 3: You lucky bitch, You lucky bitch.
Speaker 2: I really had a not I mean, I went to
Speaker 2: Rosie's Halloween parade.
Speaker 1: That was very She was thrilled. Her teacher goes, did
Speaker 1: you see her trying to go into the crowd. I go,
Speaker 1: she has a friend, Like, I didn't catch that. That's
Speaker 1: so cute. She went to go say hi to you,
Speaker 1: and the teacher thought that Rosie was just like greeting
Speaker 1: the fans like she thought that Rosie was just like
Speaker 1: heading to the talking to her people.
Speaker 3: I was having the time of my life.
Speaker 2: I mean, Rosie as a zebra was great, but I
Speaker 2: did have a favorite child, and she did win her
Speaker 2: grades costume contest. And then I love the Dunkin Donuts
Speaker 2: Munchkin Box girl. Yeah that was she was the star
Speaker 2: for me. She was the star. The Medusa was nice,
Speaker 2: the Jack Skellington brought it, but I was really feeling
Speaker 2: the Munchkins Box.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really cute. They like parade around. Everybody
Speaker 1: watches they do go by grade.
Speaker 3: It was cute. Well I remember our first grade.
Speaker 2: You know what was so interesting seeing this Halloween in
Speaker 2: La It was in the eighties and like, yeah, my
Speaker 2: whole childhood.
Speaker 3: It was like fuck, like what my cold? I don't
Speaker 3: want it to cover my costume.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it was like how to be warm
Speaker 2: in the costume and these kids were sweating, swearhoods off,
Speaker 2: like children were struggling and it's such a different experience,
Speaker 2: totally totally.
Speaker 3: Mom, I don't want to wear a coat. It's gonna
Speaker 3: ruin the whole look.
Speaker 1: And like here it's like Rosie had kids that are class, like,
Speaker 1: go did they not dress up?
Speaker 3: She goes, no, he's sonic.
Speaker 1: He just got too hot, like you know, like people
Speaker 1: just it's it was boiling and I like was out
Speaker 1: in the sun for like five hours because I was
Speaker 1: the chair of the Harvest Festival as an insane person.
Speaker 1: And then I went straight to trick or treating and
Speaker 1: I went to a street that was so wild. It's
Speaker 1: like a classic La street that people love to go to.
Speaker 1: And it was too crowded. I'll never go there again.
Speaker 1: Could barely walk on the sidewalks. The kids had to
Speaker 1: like you know, wait in line to get into certain
Speaker 1: houses because the stairwalls were like flooded with children. I
Speaker 1: just I'm not doing that shit again. I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: my neighborhood. My neighborhood has good stuff, and I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have gone to another neighborhood.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you just can't say no.
Speaker 2: You have an ultimate fomo and you needed to go
Speaker 2: to the main street.
Speaker 3: And now you learned. I learned.
Speaker 1: I learned, and I'll never go back again. But she
Speaker 1: got to see a bunch of her friends, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was cute.
Speaker 3: We ran into people. We knew it was cute, but
Speaker 3: it was part of the hood. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I grew up as your trigger treat where you live,
Speaker 2: like even the planned and the curfews, and we're actually
Speaker 2: doing it on a Sunday like that that's future shit.
Speaker 3: That's like not a part of my hate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I feel like there are people that are like, oh,
Speaker 2: we did our neighborhood does something on the weekend, or.
Speaker 3: Like I don't know, yeah yeah, yeah, I mean not
Speaker 3: to insult anyone.
Speaker 2: Even thinking about kids, like trigger treating in an apartment
Speaker 2: building is so funny to me.
Speaker 3: Like in New York.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I asked one girl in the class. I asked
Speaker 1: her mom because I love her. Mom talked to her
Speaker 1: and I was like, are you where are you guys
Speaker 1: going trigger treating? Because they live around the corner from us.
Speaker 1: She goes, I'm not taking her trigger treating. I was
Speaker 1: like what.
Speaker 3: She was like, she hasn't asked about it. I'm not
Speaker 3: taking her.
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, that's amazing way she hasn't asked
Speaker 1: about it. Because this woman has like two older children,
Speaker 1: like I think maybe even like twenties or like late
Speaker 1: late teens, and then this and then this four year old.
Speaker 1: So I think she's kind of like I'm done. If
Speaker 1: she asks me, I'll take her. But if she doesn't
Speaker 1: mention it, I'm not doing this.
Speaker 2: No. I actually so I went to a show called
Speaker 2: Witches and that was really fun. I was devastated to miss.
Speaker 2: But then I got home and I watched Alvira and
Speaker 2: you really can tell why RuPaul loves it. You really
Speaker 2: can watching it. It camp It's He's all I think about.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, RuPaul probably cackled at this. Yeah,
Speaker 2: oh she loved this.
Speaker 3: You know. But Elvira Mistress of the Dark really ahead
Speaker 3: of its time.
Speaker 2: I think I've actually talked about the Vira movie on
Speaker 2: this podcast before.
Speaker 3: I yeah, I know, I have yay.
Speaker 2: I totally remember being like it's ahead of its time
Speaker 2: because she just keeps getting assaulted and harassed for the
Speaker 2: moment the movie starts till the end, Like most of
Speaker 2: the movie is her shutting down dudes that are trying
Speaker 2: to rape her and then getting like she shows up
Speaker 2: to a town and people in pitchforks are like, you're
Speaker 2: a whore, and it's like all of your boyfriends are
Speaker 2: trying to assault her.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so it's really kind of it.
Speaker 1: It's so funny because it's like I have just this
Speaker 1: like general remembrance of like youth being like, oh, well, Vira,
Speaker 1: she has her tits out, she's a slut. Oh Dolly Parton,
Speaker 1: she has her tits out, she's a slut. Monica Lewinsky,
Speaker 1: like she fucked the president. She's a slut. Like that's
Speaker 1: like what was going on in my like household, I
Speaker 1: think because of my Republican dad, And like when I
Speaker 1: now that I look back at all that stuff, I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, these were like icons and all, and I
Speaker 1: had completely the wrong idea like revisionist history.
Speaker 2: Yeah as a teen, Like I just know so many
Speaker 2: people that are so cool now that we're teen Republicans.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or I.
Speaker 2: Remember you think I was grade sitting next to my
Speaker 2: friend who I still keep in such within fourth grade
Speaker 2: we are our desks were across from each other, and
Speaker 2: I remember her being like, I don't know, el Clinton's
Speaker 2: just so ugly.
Speaker 3: I'm a Bob Dole girl.
Speaker 2: And I was like, Bob Dole's pretty ugly too, Like
Speaker 2: I remember this conversation like it was Yester. Now I'm
Speaker 2: a Bob Dole girl. Is such a wild thing to
Speaker 2: hear from a fourth grader.
Speaker 3: She was just like, oh, because it's our parent.
Speaker 2: It's like you don't even know how you're being brainwashed.
Speaker 2: Like there are comedians who are obviously like so liberal
Speaker 2: ahead of everything, and they were teen Republicans and I
Speaker 2: know it. One of my best friends was when she
Speaker 2: got to college, wrote an article about like George Bush.
Speaker 2: It's like, eh, and that's why the Republicans hate college
Speaker 2: because then you learn, Yeah, they would prefer you not
Speaker 2: doing that because yeah, and.
Speaker 1: Urban cities because that's where you meet like people with
Speaker 1: different opinions and backgrounds.
Speaker 3: And yeah.
Speaker 2: It's just so funny how they don't get that it's
Speaker 2: a self owned for them to be like, oh, college,
Speaker 2: that's where you turn liberal and gay. And it's like wait, what,
Speaker 2: like you mean the place to learn makes them against you,
Speaker 2: Like isn't that a little inclination to.
Speaker 3: Maybe you're dumb? I don't know. I don't want to
Speaker 3: alienate it anybody. JK.
Speaker 1: We I don't think we have Republican listeners. No, they came,
Speaker 1: they left a bad review.
Speaker 3: They left. You know, we had them, but they were gone.
Speaker 3: They're gone now.
Speaker 2: I think message almost if you are a Republican who
Speaker 2: is just okay putting up with this bash, Oh well,
Speaker 2: all of the Catholic apologists that message us, I have
Speaker 2: a new puzzle piece to add to the Catholic puzzle
Speaker 2: of mistrust. And there's name dropping as well. So really,
Speaker 2: this is bait for anyone that's annoyed all.
Speaker 1: Our ones to our people. If you're still hate listening,
Speaker 1: get ready.
Speaker 2: So I got an email from my agent and it
Speaker 2: just said, Hey, Jane Fonda and Julia Louis Dreyfus are
Speaker 2: hosting an event about up to have a healthy California.
Speaker 2: And I'm known to care about the environment.
Speaker 3: JK.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not against it, but I don't you know.
Speaker 2: I'm not on the front lines of environmentalism by any means.
Speaker 2: But I am a starfucker. So I did go. I
Speaker 2: went to the environment meeting. I thought it was going
Speaker 2: to be in a theater. I thought I was just
Speaker 2: gonna sit with a friend and watch from a distance.
Speaker 2: It was in a boardroom. I set two feet away
Speaker 2: from fucking Elaine Bennis like it was wild, and you
Speaker 2: could tell she didn't really want to be there, but
Speaker 2: Jane Fonda roped her into it. She was like, you know,
Speaker 2: I told Jane I'd get involved as she needed, and
Speaker 2: so here I am, but like I'm being more direct.
Speaker 2: It was more like lighthearted. But but I love that.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like a conference room. It's like a
Speaker 1: breakout in the Santa fe room. Like they're just like
Speaker 1: so few people and they're like, all right, let's get
Speaker 1: down to brass tacks, the gangs all here, Liza ideas.
Speaker 3: They really did.
Speaker 2: We're like, okay, any questions and then but this happens.
Speaker 2: This happened when we went to see friend Liebowitz at
Speaker 2: the theater at the Ace, like where people with their
Speaker 2: questions want to seem smarter than friendly, they want to
Speaker 2: prove something.
Speaker 3: They just want to be heard and seen.
Speaker 2: And that happened even in a not even of course,
Speaker 2: in a room of celebrities.
Speaker 3: You know, it was stars studded.
Speaker 2: Connie Britton's there, we have there were some svu Alum
Speaker 2: so we had a Sophia Bush and a Rosanna Arquette there,
Speaker 2: so that was quite thrilling. But whatever, So all these
Speaker 2: celebs are there and then people that are affected, and
Speaker 2: basically why the celebs were meeting was next year. So
Speaker 2: basically there are just oil rigs across the street from
Speaker 2: schools and children and it's so Aaron Brockovich. These kids
Speaker 2: are getting bloody lungs, coughs, cancers, like they can't breathe,
Speaker 2: awful issues. And a law was passed that the oil
Speaker 2: rigs would have to, you know, change their shit up,
Speaker 2: become better for the environment and for kids safety.
Speaker 3: And this is what happened last year. What does it call?
Speaker 2: Is it a referend that the big oil is coming back?
Speaker 2: And it's kind of what they did with the Uber stuff.
Speaker 2: But if Big Oil wins, we can never bring this
Speaker 2: up into the laws again. And basically they've made all
Speaker 2: the oil rigs and oil places like safer in white neighborhoods.
Speaker 3: This is environmental racism.
Speaker 2: And basically they have tons of money, and so the
Speaker 2: celebs need to be vocal and you guys, so it's
Speaker 2: like California versus Big Oil. It's happening in October twenty
Speaker 2: twenty four, and it's important. And then we found out
Speaker 2: so one of the good questions was, so who owns
Speaker 2: the land these oil rigs are on? And we learned
Speaker 2: that the oil rigs, some of them are owned by
Speaker 2: the archdiocese, like that the Catholic bar are some of
Speaker 2: the biggest landowners ever and they own all of these
Speaker 2: things that are children.
Speaker 3: With oil poisons.
Speaker 2: Love thy neighbor, so fuck And this is kind of
Speaker 2: like the NFL, Like there's better helmets, but they're using
Speaker 2: worse helmets because of a fun deal instead of protecting
Speaker 2: their players. And this is the same thing, like you
Speaker 2: can make this safer, you just don't want to. And
Speaker 2: they call these communities that live around they call them
Speaker 2: sacrifice zones. They this is like, I don't know, it
Speaker 2: sucks that Aaron Brockovic is the only thing I can
Speaker 2: think of. I'm so uneducated, But listen, Jane Fonda opened
Speaker 2: my eyes to this oil rigs situation, and we'll see
Speaker 2: what happens October twenty twenty four. But if you see it,
Speaker 2: if you see me on the front lines.
Speaker 1: She's gonna be linking arms with Jane Fonda and fucking
Speaker 1: Sophia Bush.
Speaker 3: Say, who all was there?
Speaker 2: I don't know, is it root? Because we weren't even
Speaker 2: allowed to take photos. They like they were like no
Speaker 2: cameras allowed. And then there was like art in the
Speaker 2: lobby that I liked, and before I could take a
Speaker 2: picture of it, someone like ran up to me and
Speaker 2: was like no photos.
Speaker 1: Oh, I think it's like I think, yeah, a photo
Speaker 1: is like different, Like I think you just mentioned who's
Speaker 1: also helping against oil, you know.
Speaker 3: I think it's like a compliment to mention who was there?
Speaker 2: I would love that And me and my friend noticed
Speaker 2: not very many men showed out.
Speaker 1: Oh weird, weird word weird ed. Begley Junior was there,
Speaker 1: so that was exciting.
Speaker 2: This guy, he has the most annoying name and he
Speaker 2: I can't pull. I mean, he's working, so it's fine.
Speaker 2: The guy from American Housewife, Like what the fuck? His
Speaker 2: name is so hard and I'm a fan of his.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've been watching Deandrik Bader. That's a crazy name. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess I don't know what he's yeah, Deandrich Bater,
Speaker 2: how do you know? I feel like I've been watching
Speaker 2: him for decades and every time I'm like, who is
Speaker 2: what is that man's name? Is that?
Speaker 1: He is truly one of those people that I don't
Speaker 1: think he'll ever be like a super huge star, like
Speaker 1: obviously a household name since his name's a little hard,
Speaker 1: but like when his memoriam runs at the Oscars in
Speaker 1: fifty years or whatever, I will cry because he will
Speaker 1: be like one of those actors. And I'm like, he's
Speaker 1: in everything, Like he's in everything, that guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so two hundred and thirty six credits because I
Speaker 2: obviously went to look because I keep having to look.
Speaker 3: For two hundred and thirty six. He's not even that old.
Speaker 3: That's huge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he does tons of voices and yeah
Speaker 2: he's in office space. That's where it hit me. But
Speaker 2: he was just in the Blackening. Oh, he was in
Speaker 2: sixteen episodes of Better Things. So Pamela Adline was there.
Speaker 3: He takes the daughter to go get her abortion and
Speaker 3: Better Things.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I don't even know if I remember that.
Speaker 2: I should rewatch Better Things.
Speaker 1: So great, he like takes her they drink a cold
Speaker 1: coke in the car afterwards because she's like, nothing's better
Speaker 1: than a cold coke and a bottle.
Speaker 3: It's a great scene. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Pamela was there, and a hat, glasses, the whole thing.
Speaker 2: Lily Tomlin was there, MICHAELA. Watkins, Judy Greer, Rosario Dawson.
Speaker 2: I mean it was a tiny conference room and then
Speaker 2: I was like and then there was people that like
Speaker 2: work within the environment in politics and government and like
Speaker 2: important and then I do wonder how many like people
Speaker 2: like me were there where I was like, I was like,
Speaker 2: I'll go look at Jane Fonda and Julia Louis dreyfe as. Sure,
Speaker 2: let's see. But now I ad I'm upset. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's like a young woman there that truly was had
Speaker 2: to be a witness protection program because she went against
Speaker 2: Big Oil. It's really and like the uber thing passed
Speaker 2: last year, Like their commercials are deceitful. There's lies, and
Speaker 2: they have hundreds of millions of dollars they can spend
Speaker 2: like no one can go against them. And they make
Speaker 2: it so confusing where regular people are being tricked because
Speaker 2: they're trying to trick you on the other side doesn't
Speaker 2: have money. I mean, I truly sound like a nineteen
Speaker 2: year old who just took her first sociology class. And
Speaker 2: I apologize. I'm just like, you have you heard of
Speaker 2: big oil? They have money.
Speaker 1: Listen, another industry tree that needs to not be stopped
Speaker 1: is our industry, the industry of us touring and being
Speaker 1: on the road. I just want to take a second
Speaker 1: to move away from big Oil and talk about how
Speaker 1: we are going to be in New York City on
Speaker 1: December sixteenth. I believe there's like a handful of tickets
Speaker 1: left to the six o'clock show. We've added a nine
Speaker 1: o'clock show. Guys, get out and get those ticks. The
Speaker 1: holiday season. We want to spend time with you. It's
Speaker 1: at City Winery, a beautiful venue, so it's going to
Speaker 1: be a six o'clock show, a nine o'clock show. You know,
Speaker 1: we meet people afterwards, we do we sell merch, so
Speaker 1: that's tour specific, so come see us. Then the next
Speaker 1: night we'll be in Philly on the seventeenth. We'll also
Speaker 1: be in Sacramento on the thirteenth. Sacramento. When we came
Speaker 1: last year, you guys made us feel like beatles. You
Speaker 1: were the loudest crowd that cheered when we came out.
Speaker 1: You were the best. Please come back. We're doing a
Speaker 1: different episode and then that'll be it for twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: and then we'll see you on Well you'll see Lisa
Speaker 1: to celebrate the Insurrection on January sixth at the at
Speaker 1: the Wet City Comedy Festival. And then our podcast will
Speaker 1: be on January seventh, and that's in Seattle, so if
Speaker 1: you live in the Pacific Northwest, Baby get your little
Speaker 1: booty to Seattle and come see us on the seventh
Speaker 1: and that's that all that.
Speaker 2: And then this is actually November eighteenth, so just this weekend,
Speaker 2: I'll be in San Diego, so come on down. That'll
Speaker 2: be my last date of the year. So An and Diago.
Speaker 3: Yeah, listen.
Speaker 2: I also was going to say I watched the Jewel
Speaker 2: documentary about Jewel pods, not Jewel the singer.
Speaker 1: I was telling somebody about this other day and I go, oh,
Speaker 1: there's like a Jewel documentary. My friend goes, I'd watch that,
Speaker 1: and I go it's about the bape and she goes, oh,
Speaker 1: that's not what I was thinking.
Speaker 2: Well, the person I was with that I made that
Speaker 2: little error was like, oh, that sucks for Jewel the singer.
Speaker 2: I go, well, no, because that's who you thought of.
Speaker 2: So she's still the prominent person in your mind, do
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? But Jewel Impacts are owned
Speaker 2: by the same people I know, but I.
Speaker 3: Didn't know that Plume. Listen.
Speaker 2: Basically, Jewel treated their product like a tech product, but
Speaker 2: it's nick a team and so they got children addicted
Speaker 2: to it and uh oh uh oh, yeah, you can
Speaker 2: have mango flavor and fun, colorful advertisements if you're in
Speaker 2: the space of addictive products. But they were like, we're
Speaker 2: the iPhone of stuff, and so that was kind of
Speaker 2: the main gist of that. If you're interested or you
Speaker 2: liked me, you know my quick little summary, let's get.
Speaker 3: This party started really quickly. Those dos.
Speaker 1: No, speaking of docs, what we never talked about was
Speaker 1: Lisa talked on this podcast about the quiz Daddy documentary
Speaker 1: that she watched on HBO Max, and a couple of
Speaker 1: our listeners noticed right after that episode aired that doc
Speaker 1: is gone.
Speaker 3: And that's not like weird they take stuff down. There's
Speaker 3: not a mention of.
Speaker 1: It, like you know, sometimes you'll look it up, it'll
Speaker 1: it'll linko pop up, you click on it and it's
Speaker 1: like no longer available at Hbmax.
Speaker 3: It is gone.
Speaker 1: There is no mention of it. I went on Twitter.
Speaker 1: There's like no mentions of it on Twitter. Maybe one
Speaker 1: mention of it, Like it's weird, Like what happened. If
Speaker 1: you have any inside scoop on what happened to the
Speaker 1: quiz Daddy documentary, let.
Speaker 2: Us know, well, it was like a propaganda against the CEO,
Speaker 2: and like I wonder if he was able to fight
Speaker 2: back in some way.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know why they took it off, but how
Speaker 2: lucky that I got to see it. Well, I also
Speaker 2: got something else taken down.
Speaker 1: Not that I got quiz Daddy documentary, it is amazing,
Speaker 1: but this I think I did. Okay, So Lisa and
Speaker 1: I were talking in another forum about awe fetishes and
Speaker 1: we were like, we went we were googling the top
Speaker 1: fetishes and Lisa went to this one on Huffington Post
Speaker 1: and it was listing all these pelias, you know, like
Speaker 1: people that are turned on by bugs and whatever.
Speaker 3: And one of them was like a felia that was
Speaker 3: like traction.
Speaker 1: Two of them, yeah, track was like from like like
Speaker 1: one was like if you're a tracted to thirteen to
Speaker 1: sixteen year olds, you're a this aphelia, and if you're
Speaker 1: attracted to six to ten year olds, you're a dysphelia,
Speaker 1: but not pedophilia. Like they were just like, no, that's
Speaker 1: head of yeah, Like one of them is like you're
Speaker 1: fetish basically. One of them was like your fetish is adolescence,
Speaker 1: and it's like that's not a fetish, that's pedophilia.
Speaker 3: That's a crime. And you can't like and it was
Speaker 3: just on the list.
Speaker 1: So Lisa like wrote, wrote in you didn't leave a comment,
Speaker 1: you like wrote in a message to the huff Power
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then I was talking about it on stage last
Speaker 1: night at my weekly stand up show in Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, Lisa and I were talking
Speaker 1: about this, and there's so many crazy things, and I go, oh,
Speaker 1: how about this one where they think it's like adolescence.
Speaker 3: And I clicked on the article for HuffPo.
Speaker 1: It's gone. It's taken down. Lisa Tragger is the Aaron
Speaker 1: Brockovich of the Internet. It has been taken down.
Speaker 2: But you're forgetting the silliest part, which is it was
Speaker 2: from twenty thirteen. Yes, Lisa's like they could have just
Speaker 2: edited it out, like it's from twenty thirteen that we've
Speaker 2: found there probably got this message and we're like, oh fuck, Like, oh,
Speaker 2: I wonder if I can find it on like the
Speaker 2: way back machine or something.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. But so crazy because.
Speaker 1: The link is like it still comes up in Google Search,
Speaker 1: but when you click on it's like it's been taken
Speaker 1: down for editorial reasons or something. And you know, we're
Speaker 1: just doing the Lord's work and getting normalized, the normalization
Speaker 1: of pedophilia. We're trying to combat it, but uh, let's
Speaker 1: suddenly do so much.
Speaker 2: I get involved, I get involved. We yeah, I did
Speaker 2: get environment, big oil, and big pedophilia.
Speaker 3: We're coming for you. Well.
Speaker 2: I also wanted to quickly mention when I got called
Speaker 2: a bitch at the airport before eight am, because I
Speaker 2: got involved in something I shouldn't have. But I was
Speaker 2: still pretty relaxed and calm about it. And then the
Speaker 2: guy turned around and went, you bitch. Couldn't believe it.
Speaker 3: I was there.
Speaker 2: It was wild, like a seven forty eight am bitch.
Speaker 1: I was like, I mean, maybe annoying, but like a
Speaker 1: bitch you and Lisa goes, I'm a bitch, but I
Speaker 1: can read.
Speaker 2: It was awesome because the guy was like not doing
Speaker 2: what he was supposed to be doing based on signage.
Speaker 3: Anyway, let's get today's episode started. We've got a good
Speaker 3: one for you.
Speaker 2: He actually looks like a dad that was on the
Speaker 2: first season of Wife Swap. But that's neither here nor there.
Speaker 2: That's not a reference for all. Okay, listen, we're starting.
Speaker 2: We're starting, We're starting, all right.
Speaker 1: All right, Oh, I just did a podcast the other
Speaker 1: day where I had to do a Matthew McConaughey imitation,
Speaker 1: and I know you like my imitation, so I did,
Speaker 1: I did do it?
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 2: I think that is your secret talent is impressious, especially
Speaker 2: of the elderly like rich, of the elderly rich. Yes, yes,
Speaker 2: that's that's grandmother. If anyone has seen us live, they
Speaker 2: fucking know. Yeah, that's why you got to come to
Speaker 2: the live shows.
Speaker 3: Guys. I'm whipping out impressions at those live shows.
Speaker 1: All right, So we're doing today Solitary, Season eleven, episode three,
Speaker 1: to be confused with Solitaire, which is fun, which is fun.
Speaker 1: Solitary way less fun, as we find out in this episode.
Speaker 1: This episode came out October of two thousand and nine.
Speaker 1: It's autumnal and.
Speaker 3: And you know what, I'm going to do something that
Speaker 3: I've never done. I'm going to bring up silence to
Speaker 3: the lambs.
Speaker 2: Ooh, how did he get such a nice cage with
Speaker 2: like classical music?
Speaker 3: How did he get such good digs?
Speaker 1: I think those were concessions he was given for helping Clarice.
Speaker 1: Like for helping Clarice, he gets the music. The clear
Speaker 1: cage is because like he cannot have bars. He will
Speaker 1: kill someone like he's too smart, so he gets the
Speaker 1: clear cage, like because he's like terrifying. But then I believe,
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, the music is something he gets
Speaker 1: because he's helping an FBI agent. She's like giving him
Speaker 1: little crumbs. That's so funny because my friend Alice, who
Speaker 1: is like a film profet, like she teaches film in Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: she was just sent me yesterday an article about Jonathan
Speaker 1: Demi and how like the production designer when he first
Speaker 1: told her his idea for Silence of the Lambs, was like,
Speaker 1: are you crazy? Like you want to make a movie
Speaker 1: about a man who skins women and wears their like
Speaker 1: kills women and wears their skin, and it swept all
Speaker 1: the OSCAR categories And no movie has done that since,
Speaker 1: Like no movie has I think one director, picture, actor, actress,
Speaker 1: and screenplay.
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, pretty crazy. I remember, I think I've.
Speaker 1: Talked about it all the podcast, but I couldn't stay
Speaker 1: up late enough to watch the Oscars that year. And
Speaker 1: when I woke up, my dad woke me up for school,
Speaker 1: and the first thing I said was.
Speaker 3: Did Silence of the Lambs win? Like I was like,
Speaker 3: why am I so obsessed with this movie.
Speaker 1: It actually really disturbed me when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: and I probably watched it too young. Okay, so back
Speaker 1: to s view a different kind of disturbing. We open
Speaker 1: on a young douche yammering on his phone on a
Speaker 1: business call, and I can tell he's a douche because
Speaker 1: he's wearing like a purply buttoned down and it's unbuttoned
Speaker 1: way too far under his blazer. He's holding a bouquet
Speaker 1: of like hot pink hydrangs. It looks like maybe, and
Speaker 1: he tells a person on the phone. He's like, I promise, Lily,
Speaker 1: i'd celebrate our seven month anniversary.
Speaker 3: I can't do work right now.
Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, we all know seven months
Speaker 1: is an extremely important relationship milestone. And he's like, she's
Speaker 1: a chick, you know how it is, And like, as
Speaker 1: he's letting himself in, he tells the guy it's after ten.
Speaker 1: I'm already late, and she's going to kill me. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: to after ten on an anniversary night.
Speaker 2: It's like you might as well not be doing anything,
Speaker 2: so the time doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: It's the it's the three hours that matters.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: That he was supposed to be there. Yeah, three hours.
Speaker 2: Oh I thought for some reason you met, Like ten
Speaker 2: o'clock is too late at night, and like even if
Speaker 2: this was in the afternoon, it would.
Speaker 3: Be a problem. But I get what you're saying. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Like I feel like I don't know.
Speaker 1: He's like got to get home from my anniversary thing
Speaker 1: and it's like it's almost time to end the night.
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, but he's definitely a low level
Speaker 2: trader at bear Sterns or something.
Speaker 3: Yes, if does that, I have no idea. Yes, that's
Speaker 3: the vibe.
Speaker 1: And they do, and they did before they went completely bankrupt.
Speaker 1: So he lets himself into the apartment and there's like
Speaker 1: some slow jam music playing, and he sees clothes and
Speaker 1: heels on the ground like a sexy, you know, little
Speaker 1: scavenger hunt. And he's like, all right, I gotta go,
Speaker 1: don't call me and hangs up the phone.
Speaker 3: And this guy's ready to bone. He starts unbuttoning his shirt.
Speaker 1: He calls out to his girlfriend and he goes ready
Speaker 1: to party with the Parkster and yeah, this man's name
Speaker 1: is Parker and I do hate him. And he goes,
Speaker 1: big guy's been aching for you all day. Referring to
Speaker 1: the little parkst I guess his penis. And when he
Speaker 1: gets into the bedroom, the music like intensifies and the
Speaker 1: camera starts doing these wild smash cuts, like to the bed,
Speaker 1: there's blood on the pillow, to the mirror smashed and
Speaker 1: there's blood on it. The window it's open, and there's
Speaker 1: a bloody handprint on the window frame. Like it is
Speaker 1: a lot of like wild like with the camera. And
Speaker 1: then the guy's panics and he starts he starts panicking.
Speaker 3: He calls nine one one. He's like, something's happened to
Speaker 3: my girlfriend.
Speaker 1: Cut to camera flashes photographing the bloody handprints, and the
Speaker 1: cops are on the scene.
Speaker 3: They're giving the low down. Lily Milton twenty three.
Speaker 1: She lives there with her boyfriend Parker Hubbard aka the Parkstir.
Speaker 1: Benson and Stabler are checking shit out, like it looks
Speaker 1: like she was alive when he took her down the
Speaker 1: fire escape, because like there's a blood trail. And when
Speaker 1: then when Parker here's fire escape, he goes, oh, it's
Speaker 1: got to be that PERV.
Speaker 3: And they're like, who are you talking about?
Speaker 1: And he's like this guy from downstairs, he lives below us,
Speaker 1: and he's been peeping on us and the whole last month,
Speaker 1: he's been spying on us while we have sex.
Speaker 3: Lily called the cops. They didn't do anything, and.
Speaker 1: Live is like, no, they're probably out looking for him,
Speaker 1: and it's like, no, Olivia, cops are not all as
Speaker 1: good as you like. They're just not looking. And He's like,
Speaker 1: how can it be that hard to find him? The
Speaker 1: guy lives downstairs. Oh so that's when we find out
Speaker 1: he lives downstairs.
Speaker 3: I jumped the gun.
Speaker 1: So at first we think it's just a peeping tom
Speaker 1: but now we find out it's a neighbor. They knock
Speaker 1: on the downstairs apartment door and who comes to the
Speaker 1: door but an actor named Stephen Ray. He's an Irish actor.
Speaker 1: He's from Belfast, from Northern Ireland, I guess. And I
Speaker 1: recognize him from The Crying Game and he got nominated
Speaker 1: for that for an Oscar for that That's mostly where
Speaker 1: I know him from. But when I look at his IMDb,
Speaker 1: he's been in a ton of stuff. B for Vendetta,
Speaker 1: interview with a Vampires.
Speaker 2: Where I know him from because I was like, how
Speaker 2: do I know him? Fever Fandetta did make a big
Speaker 2: impact on me.
Speaker 1: You know, I was just I saw that on Delta
Speaker 1: the other day, and I go, I should watch this.
Speaker 1: People talk about it all the time and I've never
Speaker 1: seen it.
Speaker 2: Well, it might be one of those things that was
Speaker 2: really prolific to me as like a junior high high
Speaker 2: schooler that maybe now will be like, yeah, capitalism's bad,
Speaker 2: you know what I now?
Speaker 1: It feels like yeah, now it feels like a Barbie
Speaker 1: speech about feminism.
Speaker 3: I got it. Yeah, well, I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I hopefully maybe not, but I remember it rocked my world. Also,
Speaker 2: like the ending was like Arlington Roade esque in terms
Speaker 2: of like it taught me what suspense, shock, surprise.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Mighty on the next Delta,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna watch it. Maybe we'll do it together. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I got to watch it. But he's also But it is.
Speaker 2: Kind of like when I went to the Incubis concert.
Speaker 2: Obviously they're so good. It was like so great I've
Speaker 2: been I've had a resurgence. But the lyrics, like I
Speaker 2: understand why I liked it in high school. You know,
Speaker 2: the lyrics are like I don't want to talk to
Speaker 2: you anymore.
Speaker 3: Stuff like that, leave me alone. Live your life.
Speaker 2: It might pass you by, like those are you know,
Speaker 2: so I understand why at fifteen I was really connected.
Speaker 1: But the other just reminds me the other day when
Speaker 1: Ed was putting Rosie to bed, she goes, Dad, Viva
Speaker 1: la vita, live your life?
Speaker 3: Just right? What is she talking about?
Speaker 1: But that that's so funny that like Crying Game like
Speaker 1: was a huge movie when I was a kid because
Speaker 1: it was so like, you know, just the whole I mean,
Speaker 1: it was before anybody talked about trans identity and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and it was just like have you seen
Speaker 1: the Crying Game?
Speaker 3: Have you seen the Crying Game?
Speaker 1: Like it was just such a like buzzy movie when
Speaker 1: I was a kid, And like I remember being like,
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed it's NC seventeen or like I didn't
Speaker 1: think I was allowed to see it or whatever. But
Speaker 1: he is, you know, that is a popular movie for
Speaker 1: him as well. But he's in a ton of BBC stuff,
Speaker 1: like Across the Pond and because that's where he lives.
Speaker 1: So now Stabler goes to introduce Olivia and himself. But
Speaker 1: this guy goes Elliott Stabler. He knows exactly who he is,
Speaker 1: and he goes then he goes and they say, lightning
Speaker 1: never strikes twice, and Stabler's like, you know, the memory
Speaker 1: is not memorying for him. He's like, do we know
Speaker 1: each other? And he goes, how could you forget the
Speaker 1: last time we met? You put me in jail for
Speaker 1: nineteen years? Cut to a signature Stabler squint, and then
Speaker 1: it's the credits. So now we're at the precinct and
Speaker 1: Stabler's talking about how in nineteen eighty nine he was
Speaker 1: just a uniform cop when Callum Donovan, who is Stephen character,
Speaker 1: and some pals were robbing a bank and they literally
Speaker 1: ran into Stabler. So it was like a lucky break
Speaker 1: for him, and you know, lives like you don't even
Speaker 1: look old enough to shave in this photo. But I
Speaker 1: guess even though he was this like young new cop,
Speaker 1: he got promoted quickly because the higher ups were impressed
Speaker 1: by this bust that he didn't even really make.
Speaker 3: He just kind of was in the right place at
Speaker 3: the right time.
Speaker 1: So then Craigan goes, so you made your bones on
Speaker 1: his back, and Craigan should have a coffee table book.
Speaker 1: Like the things that Craigan says, like his little one
Speaker 1: liner sayings is they're so copy and like, so what
Speaker 1: he made your bones on his back?
Speaker 3: Like I don't even know what they mean half the time.
Speaker 1: So they ask, oh, does he have any sex crimes
Speaker 1: on his record? No, the robbery is this guy's only
Speaker 1: crime and he only got out a year ago. Live
Speaker 1: thinks it's possible that he came out with a different
Speaker 1: mo like to almost twenty years in prison, like that
Speaker 1: can change a person. And apparently though there's no evidence
Speaker 1: of him in the apartment, but his prints are all
Speaker 1: over the fire escape. The blood trail goes down to
Speaker 1: the street and then stops at the curb. He must
Speaker 1: have put her in a car. Doesn't have a car
Speaker 1: registered to him, but he could have barred one or
Speaker 1: stolen one. His apartment is totally clean, like no blood
Speaker 1: or anything there. And Craig's like, why don't you get
Speaker 1: in there and dance with your old pal and get
Speaker 1: him to talk and give up where he stashed the girl.
Speaker 1: He says, that's a stabler. So now Stabler goes in
Speaker 1: and is like, where's the girl? And the guy's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, and he's like, I've only seen her
Speaker 1: in the stairwell and the only reason I'm on the
Speaker 1: fire escape is to get to the roof. He likes
Speaker 1: the outdoors where he can breathe, and Stabler's running this
Speaker 1: his like fantasy game on the guy like, nah.
Speaker 3: You like looking at her, you like putting your hands
Speaker 3: in your pants. You haven't had a woman in so long.
Speaker 1: And then one day, you know whatever, he's doing his
Speaker 1: little storytelling time, and then Donovan is not budging. He's like,
Speaker 1: I didn't do any of this shit that Stabler is implying,
Speaker 1: like stop. And then meanwhile liv is talking to the
Speaker 1: Parkstar and he's pissed because he pays thirty five hundred
Speaker 1: dollars for that apartment a month, and Donovan assaults them
Speaker 1: and he lives like did he assault you? And he's
Speaker 1: like with cigarette smoke, the apartment reeks and Lily is allergic.
Speaker 1: They called the landlord and the landlord wants him out too,
Speaker 1: because it's a rent control place. And now we're back
Speaker 1: to Donovan and Stabler and he's lived in that apartment
Speaker 1: since he was ten.
Speaker 3: It's a family apartment.
Speaker 1: I was wondering how, you know, coming out of prison,
Speaker 1: he lived in like a nice apartment building, but it's
Speaker 1: his family's apartment since he was ten, and he goes,
Speaker 1: and now some Johnny come lately wants to tell me
Speaker 1: I can't light up at home. He goes, I go
Speaker 1: to the roof to be nice. But she's a nut.
Speaker 1: And then we cut to she's a saint. Parkster says.
Speaker 1: She teaches underprivileged kids, or she reads books on tape
Speaker 1: to the blind. She just started medical school and this
Speaker 1: guy threatened to cut her throat if she didn't stop
Speaker 1: running her mouth. And then Donovan's like, I didn't even
Speaker 1: hold the knife in my hand, it was on my belt.
Speaker 1: Words or words, you know whatever. He tells Stabler. When
Speaker 1: he was in prison, he lost his mom. He says
Speaker 1: he sat in a cage for twenty years, and he goes,
Speaker 1: I go to work every day. I visit my po
Speaker 1: I pissed in a cup. I'm not giving anyone an
Speaker 1: excuse to put me back inside. I didn't touch the girl,
Speaker 1: and he says, sure, she was a pain in the ass.
Speaker 3: And then right as he says that, who comes breezing
Speaker 3: into the room.
Speaker 1: But one of my all time fucking favorites, Jessica Walter
Speaker 1: as defense attorney Petro gil Martin, I've thought.
Speaker 2: In you immediately the moment I god screen and I went, oh,
Speaker 2: this is gonna be a big moment for Kara.
Speaker 1: I think, up until recently when I started this podcast,
Speaker 1: my Instagram bio was a quote of hers from Arrested Development.
Speaker 3: And I just love her so much.
Speaker 1: And she passed away a couple of years ago, I think,
Speaker 1: and I love her and she's so fucking funny on
Speaker 1: Arrested Development. She's like a masterclass in comedy anyway. She
Speaker 1: gets to be a little bit funny here but not
Speaker 1: super super a comedic part. And she goes, so after
Speaker 1: he goes, she's a pain in the ass. She breezes
Speaker 1: it and goes, and so are you cal what happened?
Speaker 1: She's there to represent him. She wants to talk to
Speaker 1: her client alone because she says, he's like, how did
Speaker 1: you know I was here? And she goes, Virginia called
Speaker 1: me when you missed your date. So we'll get to
Speaker 1: that later. And she's like, Stabler, I want to talk
Speaker 1: to my client alone. Go do some squats in the hallway,
Speaker 1: and then Stabler Lee. We see one of my favorites
Speaker 1: who's controversial. No, people don't like her, but I really
Speaker 1: like her. It's Eada, which I believe is executive Ada
Speaker 1: or something. Sonya Paxton played by Christine Latti. She's holding
Speaker 1: a coffee cup that is probably three quarters vodka, because
Speaker 1: the next episode after this is Hammered, where she does
Speaker 1: get busted for drinking on the job, and she's asking
Speaker 1: questions immediately like the ballbuster she is, She's like, what
Speaker 1: about the boyfriend? He's clear. Lily was last seen at
Speaker 1: five Parker was at work till ten.
Speaker 2: And you know why I remember, isn't she the one
Speaker 2: that like won an Emmy or Golden Globe? But she
Speaker 2: was in the bathroom and then had to like run
Speaker 2: on stage or something. Yes, I was in the toilet. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's how I remember her. Famous Lottie. Yeah, yeah, Christine Latti,
Speaker 2: I really love her. She's in a show called Evil
Speaker 2: that Jared and I watch that has a lot of
Speaker 2: former SVU people on it, and she's really great. And
Speaker 2: so she's like, guys, you have no evidence, you have
Speaker 2: nothing tying this guy, Like we're not you know, we
Speaker 2: need more than this. Just then Jessica Walter like wraps
Speaker 2: on the glass and goes charge him or come say goodbye.
Speaker 2: So she goes next time you want to talk to
Speaker 2: him you call me. And then Donovan, who has been
Speaker 2: working with a pretty wild accent the whole time, goes,
Speaker 2: if you want to find me, you can find me
Speaker 2: at wake like he says wyke like print porky pig,
Speaker 2: and it really made me laugh. Suddenly Parker comes flying
Speaker 2: out of nowhere the boyfriend and starts screaming at Donovan
Speaker 2: like where's Lily.
Speaker 1: He goes to throw a punch. Donovan gets on his
Speaker 1: knees and goes not resisting, not resisting, and the Parkster
Speaker 1: still manages to kick him in the gut before the
Speaker 1: cops get a handle on him. And then she says,
Speaker 1: all right, I'll let this one slide, but if he
Speaker 1: touches my client one more time, he's doing time. So
Speaker 1: next we're at a construction site in Bayo and I
Speaker 1: guess where Donovan wakes and they just are standing there
Speaker 1: staring at him and watching him work from afar. And
Speaker 1: then the boss comes up with Donovan's time card and
Speaker 1: is like, here you go.
Speaker 3: He clocked out at five.
Speaker 1: And they're like, well that works with the timeline, and
Speaker 1: there he goes, Well he didn't go home.
Speaker 3: It was payday. We all went for drinks.
Speaker 1: I left at seven, and Donovan was still there drinking,
Speaker 1: and the boss is like, you know, people can change.
Speaker 3: I don't think he's good for this.
Speaker 1: And Live is like, well, they don't always change for
Speaker 1: the better, and the guy in the hard hat's like,
Speaker 1: all right, lady and just walks away. And then Stabler
Speaker 1: wants Munch and Finn to stay on Donovan. He's like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be out here in the hot sun,
Speaker 1: and he asks Olivia if he wants to go get
Speaker 1: a cold one. I didn't realize Stabler was allowed to
Speaker 1: like Boss, Munch and Finn around, but I guess he does,
Speaker 1: because they go to get a beer and Munch and
Speaker 1: Finn now have to stand. They keep talking about how
Speaker 1: hot it is in New York at this time. So
Speaker 1: at the bar, they're talking to the bartender about Donovan
Speaker 1: and she's like, he didn't do it.
Speaker 3: He was here till eight thirty.
Speaker 1: And then Stabler clocks at the bartender seems really interested
Speaker 1: in cal Donovan and she's like, he's like, let's talk,
Speaker 1: and so she comes over. And this character's name is
Speaker 1: Betty Jean, and she's played by an actress named Bernadette Quigley.
Speaker 1: And I just like that name that sounds like a
Speaker 1: cartoon character to me. And she's been in two other svus,
Speaker 1: one Scourge and one in the five one hundredth episode,
Speaker 1: which I guess as few just called the five hundred
Speaker 1: episode because it had the right amount of letters in it.
Speaker 1: Betty Jean or BJ as I will call her, has
Speaker 1: known cal her entire life. It broke her heart when
Speaker 1: he went to prison. Then one day he walks into
Speaker 1: her bar and it's like no time has passed. She
Speaker 1: tells them that they've been kind of trying to rekindle things,
Speaker 1: but that night he kept begging her to go upstairs,
Speaker 1: but he was hammered and he couldn't get it up or,
Speaker 1: as she says, he couldn't cut the mustard, and he
Speaker 1: called her a whore, broke a lamp, and stormed off.
Speaker 1: So now they think this all works Like he leaves
Speaker 1: around a thirty, he's home, he gets home, he's drunk,
Speaker 1: he's pissed off, he sees Lily. It's a perfect storm
Speaker 1: to attack her. And then they get, you know, the
Speaker 1: phone call. At this moment in time, they always get
Speaker 1: a phone call that's like we're on our way. A
Speaker 1: body was just found in the water off the coast
Speaker 1: of Staten Island, and the description matches Lily. When they
Speaker 1: get there, done done, there's no body because the girl
Speaker 1: is alive. It's another miracle on the Hudson. The EMS
Speaker 1: guy cracks, which is a reference to Selly Sullimber or
Speaker 1: landing a plane on the Hudson, which did happen earlier
Speaker 1: the year that this episode came out. So they just
Speaker 1: see Lily clinging to life in the ambulance with like
Speaker 1: an oxygen mask, and that's the end of act one.
Speaker 1: At the top of act two, she's being rushed into
Speaker 1: the hospital having just been brought back from cardiac arrest.
Speaker 3: She's wrapped in a metallic blanket. She's hypothermic.
Speaker 1: According to blonde surfer doctor who we have commented on
Speaker 1: many times, he does not look like he belongs in
Speaker 1: New York City emergency room. And he's like, they go,
Speaker 1: is she gonna make it? And he goes, she's not
Speaker 1: dead until she's warm and dead. What I guess that's
Speaker 1: like he needed to warm her up quickly, but it
Speaker 1: seemed like a weird comment. The parkstre comes busting in,
Speaker 1: Where's Lily, How's she doing?
Speaker 3: And they're like, she's.
Speaker 1: Alive, but whatever hanging on, and he goes, I have
Speaker 1: to tweet this to her followers need to know, and
Speaker 1: it's like, oh no, what is this man's issue? He
Speaker 1: started a Twitter account called Where's Lily and he already
Speaker 1: has over to your tenty three hundred friends. Nobody on
Speaker 1: Twitter is your friend. And also twenty three hundreds is
Speaker 1: not that many. If he thinks he's like some kind
Speaker 1: of viral Twitter account in.
Speaker 2: A day, in a couple of days, that's a lot
Speaker 2: without a funny little tweet, that's a lot. Yeah, you're
Speaker 2: right local, and it's local. So now we've got online.
Speaker 1: Lookie Lou's stabler aka Clint Eastwood says he's like such
Speaker 1: a baby.
Speaker 2: I like, LOOKI Lou is that merch? Luky Lou is fun.
Speaker 2: That's not the first time it's been mentioned in an episode. Yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe just talking about look Lous all the time. Maybe
Speaker 2: I want a friendship bracelet. That's what I want, a
Speaker 2: friendship bracelet with the beads. I want a Lucky Lou,
Speaker 2: A looky Lou, Yeah, looky Lou, Looky Lou.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Because it's like people that are peeping peeping.
Speaker 3: Around crime scenes. So this guy the doc. Okay.
Speaker 1: So now the doctor comes out, it's been ten full
Speaker 1: seconds since he went in, and he's like, okay, we've
Speaker 1: got her temperature backup, Like it's a total insane thing
Speaker 1: that the human body temperature could like raise that quickly.
Speaker 1: And she's conscious but showing signs of post traumatic retrograde amnesia.
Speaker 1: And Parker's like, what does that mean, It's like memory loss, dumbass.
Speaker 1: So the active's bargin with parkstore in tow and he
Speaker 1: goes to her bedside, and this is the first time
Speaker 1: we've actually really seen her. And I recognize this woman
Speaker 1: is Deborah Ann Wall and I know her as the
Speaker 1: baby vampire Jessica on True Blood. That is like her
Speaker 1: claim to fame for me. But I looked up other
Speaker 1: stuff she's done. I think she's done some like you know, CW.
Speaker 1: Marvel stuff, but I don't. I'm not sure. She has
Speaker 1: no idea how she got into the Hudson River. She
Speaker 1: remembers coming home from school. It was seven o'clock, she
Speaker 1: took a shower. She heard someone in the apartment, a man.
Speaker 1: She thinks it was the creep from downstairs, but she's
Speaker 1: not sure it's all a blur, there was glass breaking,
Speaker 1: then her head hurt, she passed out. She came to
Speaker 1: in a car, and then she was in a dark
Speaker 1: room and it was freezing cold. The door was locked
Speaker 1: and someone put a bag over her head and she
Speaker 1: couldn't breathe. And now she's getting upset, and the doctor's like, everybody,
Speaker 1: get out of here. And so Craigan's like, all right,
Speaker 1: we got nothing, like we got her with amnesia, saying
Speaker 1: maybe it's the downstairs guy.
Speaker 3: They go over the timeline and.
Speaker 1: They figure out, oh, well, maybe he hid her somewhere
Speaker 1: like and then after we caught on to him, he
Speaker 1: went back there and dumped her body. But Munch and
Speaker 1: Finn had been on him all day, so like when
Speaker 1: would he have done that? And they're like, well, he
Speaker 1: works at the docks, a good place to dump a body,
Speaker 1: and it's like in broad daylight with all his coworkers.
Speaker 1: I'm confused to how they think that's like an easy
Speaker 1: like place to dump a body.
Speaker 2: It says when the detectives are the worst, when they
Speaker 2: do not do detectiving, when they have their theory and
Speaker 2: they're just like trying to find everything for the theory
Speaker 2: is when they're the worst, Yeah, when they're the most
Speaker 2: life yeah, or when the craigin makes fun of an addict,
Speaker 2: like that's always.
Speaker 1: Confusing to when they try to just, yeah, force everything
Speaker 1: into a narrative that they've come up in their heads,
Speaker 1: so that what they get credit for being the smartest detective.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: But she also said she was freezing and it's been
Speaker 1: boiling in New York City, so maybe she was in
Speaker 1: some kind of refrigerated storage unit at the docks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: why wouldn't there be a refrigerated storage unit down at
Speaker 1: this construction site?
Speaker 3: That makes sense.
Speaker 2: So now they're down there and there is one, and
Speaker 2: CSU is checking the fridge.
Speaker 1: There's no sign of Lily, no hairs, no fibers or blood.
Speaker 1: Stable shards showing her stables. Stabler starts showing her pictures
Speaker 1: do all the workers, and Donovan's like, why don't you
Speaker 1: just cuff me? And Finn and Munth show up and
Speaker 1: tells Stabler they've been following Parker's tweet fest and a
Speaker 1: lot of freaks are saying they saw her like with
Speaker 1: aliens and then she was abducted and whatever. But then
Speaker 1: there's one tweet from a person named Tracy who goes,
Speaker 1: I saw her around midnight outside my store, arguing with
Speaker 1: a dude, and I wish I had done something. And
Speaker 1: then Donovan was in custody at midnight, so maybe Tracy
Speaker 1: got the time wrong. So cut to a combo with
Speaker 1: Tracy at copy Quick where she works, which is like
Speaker 1: a Kinkos situation, and she is a woman who knows
Speaker 1: her shit.
Speaker 3: She is like a I love this character.
Speaker 1: Like just like an amazing huge gold plate, necklace, pink lipstick,
Speaker 1: like tan, just a wild New York character.
Speaker 3: And she's like, I did not get the time wrong.
Speaker 1: I know when my shift ends, and I saw her
Speaker 1: and she was going at it, arguing with some guy
Speaker 1: and it was am midnight. So then they show her
Speaker 1: a picture of Donovan and she's like, noah, it was
Speaker 1: this Asian guy kind of like ugly, cute and much
Speaker 1: much younger. Did I just solve the crime? And she like,
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed. I want her to have her own crime
Speaker 1: solving show, and she goes, I even have the receipt,
Speaker 1: and Stabler goes, you never said she came in here,
Speaker 1: and she goes, I didn't. I guess I was caught
Speaker 1: up with the fight and her being a murder victim,
Speaker 1: and Stabler's like, she's not dead, and it's like this
Speaker 1: girl is pure comedy. So she was like, see, look,
Speaker 1: she came in at eleven forty three and she used
Speaker 1: terminal five for forty six minutes and her boss has
Speaker 1: them copy IDs in case terrorists try to use their computers.
Speaker 3: Now Stabler looks so confused, because.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, could it be you were wrong that
Speaker 1: this isn't that you like, you know, you had the
Speaker 1: wrong guy. In the hospital, Lily is asleep with a
Speaker 1: big bandage on her head, not all the way around,
Speaker 1: but just a big, you know, big square, and Benson
Speaker 1: and Stabler come barging in and ask her who's Billy Chang?
Speaker 3: And she goes, just some guy I know.
Speaker 1: He's also in medical school and has a rap sheet
Speaker 1: for selling crystal meth. So explain these emails, Billy? Can
Speaker 1: you stop by?
Speaker 3: Billy?
Speaker 1: Where are you? You know how everyone's always emailing their
Speaker 1: drug dealer. Obviously, Stabler has printed up the emails and
Speaker 1: is showing them. She denies it's even her email address,
Speaker 1: and he's like, cut the shit, CSU told us that
Speaker 1: you created this email address on your desktop. Stop and
Speaker 1: you're not a victim. You weren't abducted, you weren't thrown
Speaker 1: in the river. You were online at copy Quick scoring drugs.
Speaker 1: And she's like, you don't even understand, and they're like,
Speaker 1: so tell us, make us understand. She goes, I had
Speaker 1: a bad day at med school. They gave me a
Speaker 1: gross old lady cadaver, and I was so creeped out.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh my god, you're not cut out to
Speaker 1: be a doctor, Like you can't.
Speaker 3: She had to like come, She's like, I came home.
Speaker 1: I had to shower to get the smell of death
Speaker 1: off of me, of this disgusting, gross old lady. And
Speaker 1: then she got pissed that Parker didn't show up because
Speaker 1: it is ten o'clock when he's trying to come in
Speaker 1: for their date or after ten, So she emailed Billy
Speaker 1: to score. He said he didn't have anything, so she
Speaker 1: trashed her apartment looking for her own stash. I guess
Speaker 1: went into an absolute mania, banged her head on the mirror.
Speaker 3: There was blood everywhere.
Speaker 1: She freaked out when she looked at how bad the
Speaker 1: scene looked, with like blood and broken shit and you
Speaker 1: know whatever. So she heard Parker come home. He doesn't
Speaker 1: know about her habit. She heard Parker coming home, took
Speaker 1: off down the fire escape and went to go find Billy. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: she saw what Parker had been posting online with his
Speaker 1: little Twitter account about her abduction and what was she
Speaker 1: going to do? She couldn't like say, hey, I flipped
Speaker 1: out because I couldn't get drugs, so she jumped into
Speaker 1: the river. But she's like, but I didn't think it
Speaker 1: would take you guys so long to find me. And
Speaker 1: they're like, are you fucking And she's like, look, I
Speaker 1: almost died, and Stabler gets set off, like he is activated.
Speaker 3: Stabler.
Speaker 1: He's like, you want pity from us? You were willing
Speaker 1: to send an innocent man to prison to cover your ass.
Speaker 1: And then Olivia cuffs her to the bed and Stabler
Speaker 1: takes off and she's like, where are you going? And
Speaker 1: he's like to apologize, So he's headed over to Donovan.
Speaker 1: Now we're at Donovan's place and Stabler finds him on
Speaker 1: the rooftop and he goes to apologize, and Donovan like
Speaker 1: stands up and walks towards him and without saying a word,
Speaker 1: kind of which places with him and pushes Stabler off
Speaker 1: of the roof of this big building. We panned down
Speaker 1: below to see Stabler's lifeless body. It has landed on
Speaker 1: a shorter building's roof and not the street below, thankfully,
Speaker 1: but it's not a great situation. It definitely was a
Speaker 1: many footfall. And if you have been to our live shows,
Speaker 1: we used to show a compilation of Stabler getting his
Speaker 1: ass kicked and this was in it. And it is
Speaker 1: quite a wild moment because you think he could be dead.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'm sure when people were watching it live
Speaker 2: on NBC, they were shocked right before the commercial, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Yeah, splayed out on the on whatever,
Speaker 2: the ground roof.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not on a roof, yeah, the other roof,
Speaker 1: the adjacent roof. So now like scary, yeah, so now,
Speaker 1: I mean it's like I was scared in Wildlife when
Speaker 1: he got shot. I was like, oh my god, he's
Speaker 1: gonna die, even though it's like when you think about
Speaker 1: it's like they're not killing Elliott Stabler, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess this is before a Game of Thrones.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think if Anaan did shocking things in
Speaker 2: television like this before Game of Thrones. Uh, yeah, there
Speaker 2: were definitely like crazy deaths in television. Oh, who shot Jr?
Speaker 2: That was like a big and who shot mister Burns?
Speaker 2: Those were a big Yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of times that's because they're
Speaker 1: writing a character off because of like the bad behavior,
Speaker 1: or they got offered something else or whatever. And I
Speaker 1: guess because I think in season twelve when he does leave,
Speaker 1: everybody was kind of shocked at the end of season twelve,
Speaker 1: So in season eleven, I don't know if anybody had
Speaker 1: an inkling about that, But anyway, Stabler's eyes are open
Speaker 1: and the top of AC three he's sitting on his back,
Speaker 1: still on the roof, and we hear his walkie talkie
Speaker 1: like buzzing with like ten forty three rem whatever.
Speaker 3: He whispers into.
Speaker 1: It, he can manages to reach for it, whispers into
Speaker 1: it ten thirteen officer down. So now we cut to
Speaker 1: the hospital. We got live Craigan and Sonia surrounding his
Speaker 1: hospital bed. He's in a neck brace with like an
Speaker 1: ice pack on his shoulder, like the kind of ice
Speaker 1: back I just have in my freezer, And I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's like feels like your whole body would be pretty
Speaker 1: fucked on what one little ice pack on the shoulders
Speaker 1: doing but Sonia's cracking a joke about him taking a
Speaker 1: nap on the job and they don't know where Donovan is,
Speaker 1: but they're gonna get him, and.
Speaker 3: Stabler tries to come up. Oh.
Speaker 1: Stable tries to get up with fully like a possible
Speaker 1: spinal injury, Like a moron that he is.
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm fine.
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, truly, you fell from like twenty feet
Speaker 1: at least, and Craigan makes him sit his ass back down,
Speaker 1: and Sonya's like, okay, gotta go LMK when you find Donovan,
Speaker 1: and when you do, don't touch a hair on his head.
Speaker 3: I think they're they're scared of Jessica Walter.
Speaker 1: At this point, Finn enters and said they've got eyes
Speaker 1: on his job and his girlfriend's bar and there's no
Speaker 1: sign of him so far. They dumped his phone and
Speaker 1: his most frequent call is to Veronique Saint John, and
Speaker 1: Craigan says that sounds like a porn star. Thanks Craigan,
Speaker 1: and then Stable remembers no remember when the woman when
Speaker 1: the attorney showed up, it was because someone named Veronique
Speaker 1: had called her to say that he didn't show up.
Speaker 3: For their date.
Speaker 1: So now we get to this Brownstone facility or this
Speaker 1: like you know, big door into Manhattan and Veronique Saint
Speaker 1: John is standing there answering questions in her bathrobe in
Speaker 1: the doorway, and she saw Donovan the night before, but
Speaker 1: she didn't know the cops were looking for him, and
Speaker 1: she doesn't ask her clients questions like that. Finn asks
Speaker 1: if she's a hooker, and she takes huge offense.
Speaker 3: She's like, the hell I am.
Speaker 1: This is a private group home and mister Donovan's mother
Speaker 1: is a resident here, so they're like, well, he told
Speaker 1: Stabler that he lost his mother, and Arone clarifies, She's like,
Speaker 1: well he did lose her to Alzheimer's. Like she's here,
Speaker 1: but she thinks he's her husband, Tommy, who died in
Speaker 1: World War two and really has no concept of reality
Speaker 1: and he visits her every night. So they go to
Speaker 1: the room of the mother and Donovan is in there
Speaker 1: with his mom and he goes, I'll go quietly, just
Speaker 1: don't wake her up, and Finn's like, uh, yeah, you
Speaker 1: threw my friend off a roof, so I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be quiet for your mom and starts like grabbing
Speaker 1: him then the mom wakes up and he goes along
Speaker 1: with the charade that he's his dad and goes, I
Speaker 1: gotta go, I'm shipping out, and she's like, one more
Speaker 1: kiss for your best girl, and he does kiss her
Speaker 1: on the cheek. It's a really weird scene because it's
Speaker 1: like she's looking at her son like she's in love
Speaker 1: with him, and in a romantic way, not in a
Speaker 1: mother son way. And they cuff Donovan and they take
Speaker 1: him out. So when they get outside, he immediately tries
Speaker 1: to run. He's going for suicide by cop, Like he's like,
Speaker 1: shoot me, what are you waiting for? I killed your partner?
Speaker 1: And Olivia is like, he's not dead. Lily lied and
Speaker 1: Elliott was coming to apologize to you. If you had
Speaker 1: waited another second, you'd be all good. And he looks,
Speaker 1: you know, devastated because the truth is sinking in. Here's
Speaker 1: the other weird thing. Isn't it weird that Lily made
Speaker 1: up the whole thing about being in a freezing cold
Speaker 1: place with a bag against on her head and there
Speaker 1: happens to be a refrigerated area at Donovan's workplace. Seems
Speaker 1: like a lot of coincidences because she really did truly
Speaker 1: make up the whole thing. At the precinct, Donovan is
Speaker 1: in interrogation. Sonya shows up and says, no one.
Speaker 3: Talks to this guy will sue her. Yeah, yeah, true.
Speaker 3: As I wonder if the couple's going to stay together.
Speaker 1: We'll see if the Twitter account loses his followers, I
Speaker 1: think Parker's going to bounce. So At the precinct, Donovan
Speaker 1: is an interrogation. Sonya shows up and goes, no one
Speaker 1: talks to him, including you. To Stabler and he's like, bitch,
Speaker 1: I've been thrown off a roof and I'm not in
Speaker 1: the mood to be told what to do. So he
Speaker 1: heads right in there and she goes Stabler and he
Speaker 1: shuts the door right in her face. And honestly, the
Speaker 1: timing is so perfect. I'd love to talk to someone
Speaker 1: to tell me, like how many times they had to
Speaker 1: do that. Because he's like, whatever, goes in, she goes
Speaker 1: Stabler smack right away the door.
Speaker 3: It's really funny.
Speaker 1: He tells Donovan get up, but Donovan won't get up.
Speaker 1: He's just sitting there quiet, and so he lifts him
Speaker 1: up by like the scruff of his neck and his
Speaker 1: shirts or whatever, and that's when Craigan and Sonya bust
Speaker 1: in to stop him and they take Donovan out, and
Speaker 1: he tells Sonya, I don't work for you, and she's like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna watch you give this guy the full
Speaker 1: stabler And he's like, I was just trying to take
Speaker 1: him essentral booking and stay. Sonya's like, it's not your case.
Speaker 1: You're the victim, and she gets all sarcastic, like, oh,
Speaker 1: just the word victim of fend big strung La. It's
Speaker 1: stable with the tough guy. He goes, you don't know me.
Speaker 1: She goes, I read your file. He goes, You've had
Speaker 1: a heart on for me since the day you walked
Speaker 1: into this squad. She laughs, and she's like, I have
Speaker 1: problems with anyone who doesn't play by the rules.
Speaker 2: And he's like, your rules. You act like the law
Speaker 2: is scripture, but you don't give a damn about the law.
Speaker 2: You just want control.
Speaker 3: I know you.
Speaker 1: I see perps like you every day who walk in
Speaker 1: here and got to have control or the world far
Speaker 1: falls apart and inside their skill.
Speaker 2: You slipped in such sharp and fart in this episode. Already, Yeah,
Speaker 2: what did I say? Falls at fart?
Speaker 1: He goes the purpse like you have to have control
Speaker 1: or the world falls apart, and inside they're scared, weak
Speaker 1: and damage. And she's like, you could tell while he's
Speaker 1: saying these words to her, it's like hitting, Like her
Speaker 1: face is like she's not like tough girl Sonya anymore.
Speaker 1: And then she slaps Elliott across the face and he
Speaker 1: like shakes it for a second, a millisecond, and then
Speaker 1: grins at her, and she looks like a frightened little child,
Speaker 1: like she's like, I just smacked somebody.
Speaker 3: Oh God.
Speaker 1: But also the guy has my number, so he walks out.
Speaker 1: She looks frightened. She's like, oh no, I might lose
Speaker 1: my job now. At arraignment, Donovan pleads not guilty. Sonya
Speaker 1: asks for remand Donovan thought he was about to be
Speaker 1: arrested for a crime he did not commit. He's not
Speaker 1: responsible for the crime that he did commit, and they're
Speaker 1: going for a psychiatric defense, and Sonya says he has
Speaker 1: no history of mental illness in his prison records, and
Speaker 1: Jessica Walter's like, yeah, prisons aren't really great at documenting
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Andy spent the majority of his sentence
Speaker 1: in solitary confinement, he was isolated with no human contact
Speaker 1: and it's made him psychotic. And they were like, he's
Speaker 1: been out for a year and had no issues, and
Speaker 1: she says, Jessica Walter goes, he regressed under the thought
Speaker 1: of reincarceration. So Petrowski is there our dearly departed Joanna Merlin,
Speaker 1: who has recently passed away and who is a legend
Speaker 1: in her own time in the SVU universe. She agrees
Speaker 1: it sounds like there's issues here that need to be
Speaker 1: laid out for the jury, but she also agrees to
Speaker 1: the remand and he begs, he's like, please don't put
Speaker 1: me back, and his lawyer if the judge can order
Speaker 1: that he'll be placed in gen Pop. But she's like,
Speaker 1: that's really not my job or my jurisdiction, Like I
Speaker 1: can't really control the Department of Corrections. And he rants
Speaker 1: about how yeah pass the buck all you you you
Speaker 1: you all throw people in prison and then walk away.
Speaker 1: You turn a blind eye to torture, and Sonya's like, oh,
Speaker 1: were you beaten? Were you waterboarded? And he was like,
Speaker 1: it's just as bad what they did to him. And
Speaker 1: then and then whatever they care, they take him out
Speaker 1: and then Stabler and Sonya kind of have a brief
Speaker 1: look and then he saunters out of court like real
Speaker 1: Lexa daisical. He's halfway down the court steps when Sonya
Speaker 1: runs after him, and we think there's going to be
Speaker 1: a big apology, and she goes, Stabler, I've got to
Speaker 1: talk to you. And then when he stops and talk
Speaker 1: to her, she goes, I mean, this Donovan defense is bullshit,
Speaker 1: and he's like, that's what you had to tell me.
Speaker 1: She's like, I mean, you and I can see through it,
Speaker 1: but the jury might buy it on the stand. I
Speaker 1: want you to really stare down Donovan, make him look
Speaker 1: you in the eye when he excuses pushing you off
Speaker 1: of a roof. And then he goes, I got to
Speaker 1: hand it to you, Sonya. You really know how to
Speaker 1: get under people's skin. And she goes, oh, right, the
Speaker 1: little thing that happened yesterday with the slap, can we
Speaker 1: just call it a truce? And she puts out her
Speaker 1: hand and he does not shake her hand, but he
Speaker 1: like smot gives her like a half smile and goes truce.
Speaker 1: So now top of act four, back at the precinct,
Speaker 1: we've got munch on a rant but this time I
Speaker 1: agree with his rant. He's talking about how humans are
Speaker 1: social creatures and prolonged isolation warps our humanity. The Brits
Speaker 1: actually studied it and said that a solitary confinement causes psychosis,
Speaker 1: and they stopped using it, and when they did, inmate
Speaker 1: violence actually goes down. Finn's not really buying the argument
Speaker 1: that solitary equals torture, even though he's like, yeah, if
Speaker 1: you treat criminals like actual people, it is better. But
Speaker 1: I don't know if solitary is torture. And then he's like,
Speaker 1: why would you not think that? They use it in Iran,
Speaker 1: They use it in Abu Gray Prisoners of War, like
Speaker 1: all kinds of places use solitary confinement as one of
Speaker 1: their methods of torture. And then Munch goes the mind
Speaker 1: can survive prison, but we aren't wired to be alone,
Speaker 1: and then live pipes in and goes, well, when I
Speaker 1: was in prison, the worst part was never being alone,
Speaker 1: Like I had no privacy, no quiet, even on the toilet.
Speaker 1: I would have killed to do a stint in the hole.
Speaker 1: And it's like, Olivia, you're on the wrong side of this.
Speaker 1: Here Munch points out that people prefer free range chickens
Speaker 1: to chickens that have been kept in cages, and he goes,
Speaker 1: we treat poultry better than humans, and Stabler's like, he
Speaker 1: threw me off a roof, and live thinks that this
Speaker 1: whole insanity solitary confinement thing is a smoke screen. So
Speaker 1: now at trial, Jessica Walter asked Donovan why he got
Speaker 1: put in solitary confinement, and he explains his story because
Speaker 1: at first I was like, why did you Why were
Speaker 1: you in solitary for the majority of nineteen years when
Speaker 1: all you did was rob a bank?
Speaker 3: That's like a nonviolent offense, Like what you know, what happened?
Speaker 1: So apparently when he got there, the Aryan Brotherhood tried
Speaker 1: to recruit him. He said, no fucking way, and then
Speaker 1: they tried to jump him in the shower.
Speaker 3: He shived them. One guy never walked again.
Speaker 1: So we got put in solitary in nineteen ninety three
Speaker 1: and then he it wasn't until two thousand and seven
Speaker 1: that he was really out of solitary. And there She's like,
Speaker 1: fucking imagine so fucking insane, like the fact that he's
Speaker 1: not just like shaking and talking to himself constantly is
Speaker 1: He's a miracle of science to me, and his lawyer
Speaker 1: is like, wow, fourteen years in solitary for a fight,
Speaker 1: and he's like, well, whenever the guards would come to
Speaker 1: get me, I was paranoid they were coming to kill me,
Speaker 1: so I would fight back, and then they would just
Speaker 1: tack on more time and solitary. So it just kept
Speaker 1: happening and happening, and then in the end they just
Speaker 1: left me there. He said, it was like death, except
Speaker 1: you're still breathing. All you hear is your breath, days, months, years.
Speaker 1: At first, you sleep twelve to fourteen hours at a time,
Speaker 1: then you can't sleep anymore. He'd watch his shadow till
Speaker 1: it came alive and started talking to him. He knew
Speaker 1: the voices were in his head, but he couldn't shut
Speaker 1: them out. And now there's all these they're playing these
Speaker 1: whispering sound effects on the show and it's really creepy,
Speaker 1: like it's really scary, and he's like, the voices are
Speaker 1: telling me, you know, pluck your eyes out, chew off
Speaker 1: your hands, all this stuff, and he still hears the voices.
Speaker 1: When he alone, he copes, he says, by working walking
Speaker 1: for hours on end.
Speaker 3: He's afraid to sleep.
Speaker 1: He sits on the roof all night because he wants
Speaker 1: to just hear the sounds of the city, anything that
Speaker 1: will block out the voices. So when Stabler came onto
Speaker 1: the roof, he heard the voice again, and the voice
Speaker 1: was laughing at him and pulling him back into the
Speaker 1: hole of solitary confinement. And he tells Stabler, you'll never
Speaker 1: know what it's like to be truly alone, endless days
Speaker 1: without seeing a face or hearing a voice. You can't
Speaker 1: imagine it unless you wind up there yourself. And then
Speaker 1: we get more squinty Stabler, Like, you know, Sabler squints
Speaker 1: when he's something's making him think. So now Stabler is
Speaker 1: at sink sing and he's got a corrections officer who's
Speaker 1: his pal checking out Donovan Cell, taking him to see
Speaker 1: Donovan Cell. And he's like, you owe me, and the
Speaker 1: guy's like, okay, well this is you know, this is
Speaker 1: the favor consider our debt paid. So Stabler steps into
Speaker 1: the cell and the guy goes, don't do anything stupid,
Speaker 1: and he shuts the door. And the guy who's playing
Speaker 1: this corrections officer is named Glenn Fleschler, and he's been
Speaker 1: in the episode Angels. He was in the episode Intent
Speaker 1: that we covered. He was the shitty lawyer that I
Speaker 1: think called the girl when she was trying to the
Speaker 1: social media influencer.
Speaker 3: And then he's also in two recent episodes as well.
Speaker 3: He came onto the scene for me True Detective. Oh wow,
Speaker 3: is he the guy? Yeah? Yeah, oh wow? Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And he's also he is the Hasidic jew that Charlotte
Speaker 2: has sex with in Sex and the City in the
Speaker 2: episode Secret Sex.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Well this guy is prolific.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's been working. No, he has so many credit.
Speaker 2: But True Detective, I feel, is like for me, what
Speaker 2: put him on the map?
Speaker 1: Yes, I knew I recognized him when I saw him
Speaker 1: and then I looked up his sv like past only
Speaker 1: and but I do remember him as that shitty lawyer.
Speaker 3: But yes, True Detective for sure.
Speaker 1: That season had me by the neck, Like I was
Speaker 1: obsessed with that show.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Season one of True Detective change, Like
Speaker 2: it was a huge moment, so crazy.
Speaker 3: I think it was one of the first like.
Speaker 2: Mini series in that way that was like you know,
Speaker 2: scene as like a cinematic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like a movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, people really liked it. But he's in Billions.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, He's like, I don't either. He's in thirty
Speaker 2: six episodes. Oh okay, so he's one of the major
Speaker 2: Billions people. He was in the thing about Pam.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I wonder who he plays. I never
Speaker 1: saw that. I just listened to the Dateline podcast of it.
Speaker 2: I didn't either, but I want to wait. I want
Speaker 2: to listen. I want to know the thing about Pam.
Speaker 1: The podcast is so funny because, first of all, it's
Speaker 1: only six episodes. It's so quick to listen to. But
Speaker 1: Keith Morrison listening to his voice is amazing, Like to
Speaker 1: listen to him on a podcast He's like and then
Speaker 1: Pam like, it's so good. Okay, I'm obsessed. I don't listen.
Speaker 2: I haven't listened to anything else, to be honest, on
Speaker 2: the Dateline podcast since.
Speaker 3: But I liked the Pam one a lot. It's unhinged.
Speaker 1: So anyway, we have come to believe that now Stabler
Speaker 1: is putting himself in solitary confinement for some amount of
Speaker 1: time to understand what it's like, and this man will truly.
Speaker 3: Do anything to get away from his wife and kids.
Speaker 1: We see him doing sit ups, push ups, then he's
Speaker 1: sleeping getting food, but whenever they bring him the food,
Speaker 1: he's like, what time is it? And they won't tell
Speaker 1: him the time, So that's part of it. Like it
Speaker 1: is truly wild, how Like I know this is such
Speaker 1: a small example comparatively, but like the subway in New York,
Speaker 1: now that they have the counters that tell you how
Speaker 1: long you have to wait, it makes it like so
Speaker 1: much more bearable. Like even if the thing says fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes till your next train twenty minutes you're next train
Speaker 1: when you don't know and you're just standing there and
Speaker 1: you have no idea how much time something is taking.
Speaker 1: It truly is like nothing moves more slowly than that.
Speaker 1: And so I think that's what they're trying to illustrate here,
Speaker 1: Like if someone would just tell him, oh, it's twelve
Speaker 1: o'clock or whatever, he could figure out, you know, where
Speaker 1: he is in time. But to just be suspended in
Speaker 1: time like that is then there's more working out. This
Speaker 1: is truly my nightmare, Like I I like, I'm so
Speaker 1: solitary combinement.
Speaker 3: This is my nightmare and being buried alive.
Speaker 1: Stabler also starts to hear the little whispers they start
Speaker 1: putting a little whisper sound effect on. He wakes up,
Speaker 1: he thinks he hears shit. There's all these like jolt
Speaker 1: him getting jolted awake, more sit ups, but now he's
Speaker 1: screaming while he does his situps. He's going crazy and
Speaker 1: I yeah, he's like going crazy. And then there's like
Speaker 1: a cockroach crawling on his food tray. He starts playing
Speaker 1: with the cockroachs with like a big smile on his face,
Speaker 1: like it's really gross, and he's really starting to break down,
Speaker 1: like they just keep showing him jolting awake, talking to himself.
Speaker 1: The door opens and his friend is there, the true
Speaker 1: detective guy, and he goes, you, son of a bitch,
Speaker 1: I said three days, not a week. And the guy goes,
Speaker 1: it was three days. It took three days for Stabler
Speaker 1: to absolutely unravel and adopt a pet cockroach. So imagine
Speaker 1: these people that are in there for weeks, months, years,
Speaker 1: Like it's so inhumane.
Speaker 3: In my opinion, it is.
Speaker 2: I do wonder if it's a little excessive that it
Speaker 2: was only three days.
Speaker 3: Would you really have a pet crockerroach in three days?
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what the studies are
Speaker 1: I'm sure they've done studies on people in isolation for
Speaker 1: three days and what happens, you know, Like, I'm sure
Speaker 1: the show is dramatizing it, but like like.
Speaker 2: He was in the military, right, yeah, you're you should be.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just a full pet cockerroach in three days is wild?
Speaker 2: But you know what, do I know? Maybe we should
Speaker 2: do that. Maybe this will be a fun thing for
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Like, I don't think I would last
Speaker 2: two hours. I really don't. I think I would go
Speaker 2: crazy in two hours. Like this isn't that unbelievable for me?
Speaker 2: Because I really, you know, I like don't really do
Speaker 2: alone time, Like I thrive off being around other people.
Speaker 2: So to be by myself for like three full fucking
Speaker 2: days with just concrete walls around me, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I can't say I would have survived not having a TV.
Speaker 2: That's hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So now Stabler is walking into Sonya's office, who's just
Speaker 1: smoking a cigarette in her office in two thousand and nine,
Speaker 1: I guess that's like right at the cusp of when
Speaker 1: they started saying that you're not allowed.
Speaker 3: To do this anymore. And she's like, where the hell
Speaker 3: have you been?
Speaker 1: And he's like the hole and then he goes, I
Speaker 1: want to drop the charges, and she goes, don't be
Speaker 1: a woof stabler. She's like, well, glad you had a
Speaker 1: fun little trip and found yourself or whatever, but I'm
Speaker 1: here to put wannabe cop killers away. And if Donovan walks,
Speaker 1: it's open season on cops for anyone who's served a
Speaker 1: day in solitary. They're all going to say, oh, it
Speaker 1: made us crazy. And he's like, well, okay, don't make
Speaker 1: an example out of him, but cut him a deal.
Speaker 1: She goes, he'd be out in five and then what
Speaker 1: he runs down A cop who pulls him over. Can't
Speaker 1: take the chance. He threatens to report her for assault.
Speaker 1: He pulls out the only card he's got on her
Speaker 1: and he goes, the DA will suspend you. She doesn't
Speaker 1: even flinch. She goes go ahead, and then he doesn't
Speaker 1: do anything, and she goes thoughts, so you may have
Speaker 1: lost your balls in lock up, but I've still got mine.
Speaker 1: And I can see why a lot of people hate her,
Speaker 1: I really can, But for some reason, I like her
Speaker 1: and I hate the way she spoiler alert dies, So
Speaker 1: cut to the verdict attempted murder in the first degree.
Speaker 3: He's found.
Speaker 1: Now here's what I don't understand about it being first degree.
Speaker 1: First degree is premeditation. Stabler just showed up on that
Speaker 1: roof and he pushed him. That's not premeditated, No, not
Speaker 1: at all. It's the cop of it all. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: like not that's I don't know. That feels like barely second.
Speaker 1: I don't know because also it's not there's no deadly weapon.
Speaker 1: He just you know, it was a push. So anyway,
Speaker 1: he's found guilty by the jury.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Stabler came to his roof. Yeah, yeah, no, no,
Speaker 2: that is that is weird. I actually am just noticing that.
Speaker 2: I don't think I noticed when I actually watched. But
Speaker 2: so they find Donovan guilty.
Speaker 1: He slowly puts his head on the table and starts
Speaker 1: banging his head, and then he starts begging for them
Speaker 1: to just give him the needle. He's like kill me,
Speaker 1: Like it's really dramatic and this guy is a great actor,
Speaker 1: Like it's really really horrible.
Speaker 3: They drag him out.
Speaker 1: He's just pleading over and over again, please don't do this,
Speaker 1: Please don't do this. And Stabler looks fucked up over it,
Speaker 1: like he's so now he's at a bar having a
Speaker 1: drink and Sonya sidles up next to him and is like,
Speaker 1: oh hey, Stabler, let me buy you around. And then
Speaker 1: she tries to toast to a good day for the
Speaker 1: people and he's like, bitch, not happening. She says she
Speaker 1: does feel She's like, you don't think I feel sorry
Speaker 1: for Donovan, and he goes, good for you. You had
Speaker 1: a shot to do the right thing and you didn't,
Speaker 1: and then he walks out, leaving her with her little
Speaker 1: round of drinks that she's probably gonna drink both of
Speaker 1: to be honest, So now it sings saying. Stabler opens
Speaker 1: the slot of Donovan's cell and he's in there and
Speaker 1: he's been beaten up pretty bad, it looks like, and
Speaker 1: he's drugged on haldall and he's like, well, who tuned
Speaker 1: him up? And the guy goes, he did it to himself.
Speaker 1: He smashed his head against the wall until we drugged him.
Speaker 1: And then the guy, the corrections officer, wakes him up
Speaker 1: to take him to the medical unit and he's like
Speaker 1: confused and they're like, oh yeah. After he's stable, he
Speaker 1: gets to go to Gen Pop and Donovan thanks Stabler,
Speaker 1: but he's like it wasn't me. And then Stabler goes,
Speaker 1: did the warden see the light? And he goes not
Speaker 1: until the DA shined it in his eyes. She would
Speaker 1: not take no for an answer, So we find out
Speaker 1: Sonya is the one that arranged for him to get
Speaker 1: into Gen Pop and he tells Donovan to say goodbye
Speaker 1: to the hole and he just stares at Stabler and
Speaker 1: then he gets walked away. And that's dick wolf my Bambino's.
Speaker 2: I just want that girl to get years. I am like,
Speaker 2: she fucked this guy over. I mean, he made the decision,
Speaker 2: you know, to shove and you know, hopefully five years
Speaker 2: he can make it out.
Speaker 3: But it's like, are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 1: Because she truly could have just said it was a guy.
Speaker 1: I didn't see his face, like they didn't like ing
Speaker 1: it was him, Yeah, they didn't like him.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: That just makes it feel like it's more like in
Speaker 1: like terrible, you know, than what her original crime was.
Speaker 1: But that's that up, and I can't wait to hear
Speaker 1: what crimes you have to tell me about.
Speaker 2: There's so many stay tuned, buckle up, guys. Okay, so
Speaker 2: there's a few crimes and each of them are like
Speaker 2: a kind of a piece of each of the episodes,
Speaker 2: and none of them actually fit at all. Okay, So
Speaker 2: the first one is the case of Mary Rogers, and
Speaker 2: this is connected to like the water of it all
Speaker 2: the yeah, just the water, okay, So and this is
Speaker 2: yeah eighteen forty one July twenty eighth, eighteen forty one, guys,
Speaker 2: two New Yorkers were wandering the Hoboken shoreline near the
Speaker 2: spring at Sibyl's Cave, which is a popular tourist attraction
Speaker 2: at the time. Since it is the eighteen hundreds, like,
Speaker 2: I can't imagine how.
Speaker 3: Boring their tourist attractions were.
Speaker 2: So they spotted a body bobbing two hundred yards out
Speaker 2: in the Hudson River, And while they waited on shore
Speaker 2: for the coroner to arrive, a man approached that, how
Speaker 2: do you even contact the authorities?
Speaker 3: It's the eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 2: You're on a dock, Like I know, everything is so
Speaker 2: hard for me to picture here. But a man approached
Speaker 2: them and said, oh, I recognized her from her clothing,
Speaker 2: and that is Mary Cecilia Rogers. Records are heard, but
Speaker 2: like because it's so old, but they believe she was
Speaker 2: born in eighteen twenty in Lime, Connecticut. I didn't realize
Speaker 2: not only lime disease was big in Connecticut.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize Lime was a town. Yeah, that's where
Speaker 1: it comes from. That's where the name comes from. Why
Speaker 1: that's wild. Yeah, because the town of Connecticut, of Lime, Connecticut,
Speaker 1: I think, is where like it was first I don't know,
Speaker 1: discovered or whatever.
Speaker 2: It must suck to be. You know, your town is
Speaker 2: a disease, now that you've caused. Her and her widowed
Speaker 2: mom moved to Manhattan in the eighteen thirties and they
Speaker 2: ended up getting some single, working class girl jobs. So
Speaker 2: Mary was a salesgirl at a tobacco emporium, and then
Speaker 2: her mother opened a boarding house, and so you know,
Speaker 2: Mary was working at Anderson's tobacco imporium.
Speaker 3: She was super cool.
Speaker 2: There was an emerging social scene and young men came
Speaker 2: by local writers, and even though people came for the tobacco,
Speaker 2: Mary was a huge attraction. She was known in the
Speaker 2: press as the beautiful cigar girl. She became a huge
Speaker 2: celebrity in Manhattan. So she eventually returned home to help
Speaker 2: her mother, but was still like the center of mail attention.
Speaker 2: Everyone was kind of obsessed with her and one person
Speaker 2: that was super obsessed was a man named Daniel Payne,
Speaker 2: and he was a cork cutter, and he also was
Speaker 2: a boarder cut corks who was a border and who
Speaker 2: got engaged in the summer of eighteen forty one. So
Speaker 2: Mary and Daniel Payne are engaged in eighteen forty one.
Speaker 2: He is also the last man to have seen her live.
Speaker 2: So the morning of July twenty fifth, Mary left the
Speaker 2: Rogers boarding house and said she was gonna go visit
Speaker 2: on Aunt up Town and after that, nobody knows what's
Speaker 2: happened to her. And so then this a man named
Speaker 2: Arthur Chromelian who is Mary's ex saw the articles written
Speaker 2: about her missing and took the fairy to Hoboken to
Speaker 2: search for her. And that's when he arrived as the
Speaker 2: witnesses were there and as they were recovering her body,
Speaker 2: and so that the timing is wild, very wild, and
Speaker 2: the cops didn't find him creepy enough, so they just
Speaker 2: moved on from the investigation.
Speaker 3: They were like, ah, this.
Speaker 2: Guy seems chill, okay, But so they turned their attention
Speaker 2: to pain but his alibi checked out and then no
Speaker 2: more leads came in until September, there was a break
Speaker 2: in the case. A group a group a group, A
Speaker 2: group of local boys playing in a field found bundles
Speaker 2: of bloody clothing in the bushes and their mother alerted
Speaker 2: the police. And their mother was named uh Fredrika Loss,
Speaker 2: and she operated a place called the nick Moore House
Speaker 2: and Pub. And she revealed to the cops that Mary
Speaker 2: had checked into the nick Moore House on the night
Speaker 2: she disappeared with an unknown man. The pair went out
Speaker 2: and never returned. She also said she heard screams in
Speaker 2: the night from the woods but didn't think much of it.
Speaker 3: Huh okay, I don't understand. I don't get it.
Speaker 2: But I also uh, A few bars are doing it now.
Speaker 2: But I do really like a bar that has a
Speaker 2: hotel in it. Oh yeah, gold Diggers does that Barvel
Speaker 2: in Los Felis has like it's a great wine bar,
Speaker 2: and then right above our like beautiful rooms, like really
Speaker 2: cool bi Boutiqui rooms. I'm into it. I really love it.
Speaker 2: But at the gold Digger bar, they like there's signs
Speaker 2: in the bar that's like need a room, ask a bartender.
Speaker 3: So it's more I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think people are doing creepy shit, but I'm into Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm into it.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So she didn't think anything of the screams. And then
Speaker 2: October seventh, pain. You know, her fiance was really, really sad,
Speaker 2: and so he went to go to the place where
Speaker 2: her clothing was found, and he drank a bottle of Laudanam,
Speaker 2: which is a tincture of opium and alcohol. He overdosed
Speaker 2: and he was later found a few hundred yards from
Speaker 2: where Mary's body was found.
Speaker 3: The end that he had a note in his.
Speaker 2: Pocket and it read, to the world, here I am
Speaker 2: on the spot. God forgive me for my misfortune in
Speaker 2: my misspent time.
Speaker 3: Huh.
Speaker 2: Edgar Allan Poe became obsessed with the case and published
Speaker 2: The Mystery of Mary Roguette and a sequel, Murders at
Speaker 2: the Room Morgue. And I don't know, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of information about how Edgar Allan Poe was just kind
Speaker 2: of really into this case. But you know, I like
Speaker 2: the famous famous creep creepiness lover, famous creator of creep.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, November sixth, eighteen forty two, Frederica Loss was accidentally
Speaker 2: shot by one of her sons. The next ten days,
Speaker 2: she was in pain. She was babbling, hallucinating, and she
Speaker 2: claimed that a young woman was tormenting her. And then
Speaker 2: she finally made a final confession. She said that Mary
Speaker 2: came to Hoboken to get an abortion in the company
Speaker 2: of this young physician, but she died in the operation
Speaker 2: and lost a ton of blood. And so Loss's sons
Speaker 2: dumped the body in the river and scattered her clothing.
Speaker 2: And in later years it's even suspected that Loss was
Speaker 2: working as an assistant to the notorious Hoboken abortionist Madame Costello,
Speaker 2: whoa Right after the mother's death, two of her older
Speaker 2: sons were briefly charged in connection to the murder, but
Speaker 2: there was lack of heart evidence or witnesses, and you know,
Speaker 2: the condition of the mother during the confession, so the
Speaker 2: case does remain unsolved and no one knows. But wow,
Speaker 2: a body in the river. Okay, So the next one.
Speaker 2: Do you know about this Margo Kidder's disappearance. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: remember reading about this a long time ago. I don't
Speaker 2: know the details, but I remember that she was having
Speaker 2: some thought. I think she was having some mental health issues.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so this is so Margo Kidder, for those
Speaker 2: who don't know, was Lois Lane. In the Superman movies
Speaker 2: and famously for US she was Chadlow's mother, slash abuser,
Speaker 2: slash lover and then murder victim on that episode Peak,
Speaker 2: which was a very good episode, and her.
Speaker 3: Performance in that episode is killer. It's so good. I
Speaker 3: don't like. I don't like something she goes.
Speaker 1: It requires a prevaricating nature that I did. I despise, Like,
Speaker 1: she just has a great like line delivery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the rich moms, but the yea yeah,
Speaker 2: Benson's like, so if you're so rich, was there only
Speaker 2: one bedroom here?
Speaker 3: Okay? So her career went from.
Speaker 2: So this is I think, quote unquote like the hoax
Speaker 2: part of it, not the hoax, because something was going
Speaker 2: on with Margo and with that woman. I mean, that
Speaker 2: woman in the episode is an addict with some issues.
Speaker 2: You know, Margo did not affect a fucking other person's life,
Speaker 2: which the character did.
Speaker 3: So a little bit about Margo.
Speaker 2: Her career went from stardom to addiction, to bankruptcy and
Speaker 2: then finally this disappearance. At the height of her fame,
Speaker 2: she was you know, Superman Blockbusters with Christopher Reeves and
Speaker 2: was known as the best paid Canadian performer in the US.
Speaker 2: So she showed up to lax on Saturday night, April twentieth,
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six, for a flight to Phoenix on her
Speaker 2: way to teach an acting class at an Eastern Arizona College.
Speaker 2: But her flight was actually not till Sunday, so she
Speaker 2: wandered the airport for several hours and then at three
Speaker 2: as she noticed a man named Ted Hall and he
Speaker 2: was a television reporter from Tennessee, and she saw the
Speaker 2: cameras and everything, so she asked, oh, are you from
Speaker 2: the media, and can I hang out with you guys?
Speaker 2: And she told them she was being stalked by several
Speaker 2: men hired by her ex husband to kill her, and
Speaker 2: she would tell that. She told them that he makes
Speaker 2: Oj Simpson look like Alan Alda.
Speaker 3: I love that. I do too, That's a great line.
Speaker 2: She pointed to one man and said that's him, that's
Speaker 2: the guy. But the journalists actually remembered him from the
Speaker 2: flight from Atlanta, so he realized something was off.
Speaker 3: She did not want to call the police.
Speaker 2: Instead, she asked for a disguise or just switched jackets
Speaker 2: because hers was bugged. She eventually left the airport at
Speaker 2: four point thirty in the morning. The taxi driver did
Speaker 2: kick her out because she was broke, and so for
Speaker 2: two days she wandered for miles on foot and hid
Speaker 2: from like these phantom stalkers, She approached some people on
Speaker 2: the street who believed that she was homeless, so they
Speaker 2: gave her a ride to Glendale and offered to help
Speaker 2: her find a place to sleep, but all the shelters
Speaker 2: were full, so they paid thirty three dollars for a
Speaker 2: room at the Bell Motor Motel at eleven pm Monday.
Speaker 2: She appeared at the front desk the next morning, wrapped
Speaker 2: in a bed sheet and asked for scissors to cut
Speaker 2: her hair, like things aren't good, and then finally at
Speaker 2: six pm, the cops got a call from a homeowner
Speaker 2: when they found her behind a bush. April of nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety six, she was found in Glendale, California, in this backyard.
Speaker 2: She was dazed and cowering, and she was taken to
Speaker 2: a psych ward. There was no evidence of foul play.
Speaker 2: She was missing for three days and then she was
Speaker 2: just really scared, paranoid. It was obvious mental distress. According
Speaker 2: to the police Sergeant Rick Young. She claimed to have
Speaker 2: been followed and assaulted, but they did not think a
Speaker 2: crime took place. No alcohol or drugs were found in
Speaker 2: her system at the time, so this is a true
Speaker 2: mental kind of collapse. There was no alcohol or drugs involved.
Speaker 2: And before this incident in nineteen ninety, she got into
Speaker 2: a bad car accident and that's what kind of started
Speaker 2: off her spiral. She was not able to work, which
Speaker 2: put her into debt, and she was going through a
Speaker 2: lot before this breakdown even happened. And then they found out,
Speaker 2: you know, she had bipolar disorder. She also became addicted
Speaker 2: to pain pills after the surgery from the car accident,
Speaker 2: and she was just in constant pain. She finally had surgery,
Speaker 2: but then her insurance wouldn't pay for it, and then
Speaker 2: the production company also rejected the insurance's claims, and so
Speaker 2: she like wasn't but she did get injured on set
Speaker 2: in Vancouver. She was filming the Nancy Drew Mysteries or whatever,
Speaker 2: and so insurance would But it's Canada. What the fuck
Speaker 2: is Canada's medical system? Knew I thought everyone just gets stuff,
Speaker 2: so whatever, or maybe because maybe she was a citizen
Speaker 2: here or had a visa, it's all America stuff. But
Speaker 2: it happened in Vancouver, very confusing, But it just seems
Speaker 2: like every turn people were fucking are over. So she
Speaker 2: lost her home and went bankrupt, and during the three
Speaker 2: days she was wandering the street, she was like dirty
Speaker 2: and penniless, delu and very alone, wrote The Washington Post. Sadly,
Speaker 2: she did die in twenty eighteen, and the Park Coroner's
Speaker 2: Office in Montana revealed that the cause was suicide, self
Speaker 2: inflicted drug and alcohol use. And a month after she passed,
Speaker 2: both Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain took their own lives.
Speaker 2: And it really showed that there needs to be more
Speaker 2: conversations and how it's a really national public health crisis.
Speaker 2: And I had no idea about Marco Kidder. Yeah, this
Speaker 2: sounds also like the Anne Hash thing, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just so sad. So those two cases are just like
Speaker 2: in connection with the woman in the beginning.
Speaker 3: So now we're going to get into.
Speaker 2: Sentences, parole, crime, solitary, all of that. So this third
Speaker 2: case we're going to touch on is about Herman Bell.
Speaker 2: So basically, two cops were shot in New York City
Speaker 2: in Harlem in nineteen seventy one. The Black Liberation Party,
Speaker 2: which is an offshoot of the Black Panther Party took
Speaker 2: credit for the killings of Joseph A. Pa Gentini and
Speaker 2: Waverley M.
Speaker 3: Jones.
Speaker 2: Yet Bell was captured in nineteen seventy three in New Orleans,
Speaker 2: more than two years after the cops were killed, which
Speaker 2: is kind of wild. A jury convicted three men, Herman Bell,
Speaker 2: Anthony Bottam, and Albert Washington. They each got a sentence
Speaker 2: of twenty five to life. So Herman Bell served four
Speaker 2: decades in prison starting in nineteen seventy nine, and then
Speaker 2: was granted parole in March of twenty eighteen. And against
Speaker 2: all odds, people were hell bent on keeping him in there.
Speaker 2: They did not want him out, like cop killers are
Speaker 2: the worst. Like I don't know, because a lot of
Speaker 2: these cases, like even Colleen stan we talk about them.
Speaker 2: I'm like, that man cannot be paroled and he needs
Speaker 2: to be in jail forever. And then when I read
Speaker 2: something like this, I go forty years in prison is
Speaker 2: a lot, I think it's okay, And so it is.
Speaker 2: It's like really hard because it's not it's not across
Speaker 2: the board. It's really hard to kind of discuss these things.
Speaker 2: So it was the eighth time for him in front
Speaker 2: of the Pearl Board and the Patrolman's Benevolent Association, and
Speaker 2: the letter from Mayor Bill de Blasio urged the state
Speaker 2: Board to reconsider. Deblasio said that murdering a police officer
Speaker 2: in cold blood is a crime beyond the frontiers of
Speaker 2: rehabilitation or redemption.
Speaker 3: According to The New York Times.
Speaker 2: I agree with you in the sense that, like, I
Speaker 2: don't know how much. I don't know if forty years
Speaker 2: is enough time.
Speaker 1: If you're a member of a person's family and they
Speaker 1: took them away from you, whatever, Why is a cop
Speaker 1: more important than a sex worker? You know? Why is
Speaker 1: a cop more important than another person? Like, that's what
Speaker 1: I kind of don't It's like, if you're going to
Speaker 1: just say this is what the cost of murdering a
Speaker 1: person is, then that's it. Like to say, murdering a
Speaker 1: cop in blood, murdering a cop is worse.
Speaker 3: Than murdering anyone else. I don't know if I really.
Speaker 2: No, that's bullshit because actually, as a cop, you put
Speaker 2: your life in danger.
Speaker 3: That is part of your life.
Speaker 1: And if that's how we're going to do it, then
Speaker 1: when cops commit crimes, they should get quadruple the punishment,
Speaker 1: Like when they abuse their power and sexually assault people,
Speaker 1: and you know, take like we're about to do another
Speaker 1: episode where cops did shady shit, like then they should get,
Speaker 1: you know, quadruple the crime. If you get quadruple the
Speaker 1: punishment for hurting them, they should get quadruple to punishment
Speaker 1: for hurting other people.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and well yeah, and they should also have
Speaker 2: to pay their own settlements.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of them would maybe behave if
Speaker 2: they didn't, if they is coming out of their own pockets.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think for these people like the Banilla Benevolent Association
Speaker 2: and the mayor and stuff like, to them, it's like
Speaker 2: they're setting them up like you're a hero already and
Speaker 2: so killing a hero. But it's like there's a complicated
Speaker 2: everything with cops. There are certainly cop heroes. There are
Speaker 2: certainly very unherly unhear own cops. Yeah, but I don't
Speaker 2: I think for them, it's like they're immediately on a pedestal,
Speaker 2: So killing them is worse than anything.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And when you're just like very young and depending where
Speaker 2: you grow up from and like the fact of the
Speaker 2: matter is, murderer is wrong. But if you are part
Speaker 2: of this liberation and you feel like cops are an
Speaker 2: agent of.
Speaker 3: The system, then it is sol layered.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but anyways, even with the pearole, he's gonna be
Speaker 2: supervised for life. And the parole board concluded that he
Speaker 2: matured and expressed remorse, and they took in a few
Speaker 2: factors such as his age, his limited disciplinary history, and
Speaker 2: network of supporters, and said that the state has prepared
Speaker 2: him for his release. Albert Washington, the other person, died
Speaker 2: in prison in April two thousand and then Anthony Bottom
Speaker 2: was granted parole at sixty eight years old in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty and released, you know, in October of twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: I understand the families of victims being upset, but the
Speaker 2: language is kind of insane, you know. The president of
Speaker 2: the association, the Police Benelevents Association, Pat Lynch, said cop
Speaker 2: killers should never be returned to society. And it's like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know, what about the cops
Speaker 2: that kill their wives? Can they be returned to society?
Speaker 2: It's just so fucking annoying. Did we even ever find
Speaker 2: out what happened to that cops wife who was like
Speaker 2: boiled to death in the car that he locked her in?
Speaker 2: What This was like a couple of years ago, a
Speaker 2: CoP's wife was found in the back of a police
Speaker 2: car and was like a hot day. He put her
Speaker 2: in there and she boiled because you can't get out
Speaker 2: and it was hot as fuck.
Speaker 3: And I don't think anything ever happened.
Speaker 1: Miami police officer, Yeah, twenty twenty dies after she gets
Speaker 1: trapped for hours in the back of his work vehicle.
Speaker 1: Cause of death had not been released. Really feels like
Speaker 1: we know what happened.
Speaker 2: But he's acting like she got in the back of
Speaker 2: the car or something like that. He came home from work,
Speaker 2: went to bed. Yeah, and she didn't know where she was.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's unknown why she went inside her husband's
Speaker 1: vehicle without her cell phone.
Speaker 2: This is according to CNN. Yeah, and I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't think there. It sounds like there's not even
Speaker 2: gonna be an investigation into it from what I'm looking at. Nope,
Speaker 2: that was it. Nothing about it since October of three
Speaker 2: years ago. Wow, all right, So that's what I mean.
Speaker 2: It's just like, obviously, a life is a life. These
Speaker 2: cops had full families, people who loved them, like absolutely,
Speaker 2: but the language of all these people is such bullshit.
Speaker 3: It's like their lives don't matter.
Speaker 1: Ranking people in society, yeah, like ranking people as more
Speaker 1: important than other people is not.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes me be like you have released all
Speaker 2: of the cop killers, you know what I mean. It's
Speaker 2: just like the language actually does the opposite. According to
Speaker 2: CBS News in September twenty twenty, it said that sixteen
Speaker 2: cop killers in New York have gone free in three years,
Speaker 2: you know, in this time. But then an adjoint statement
Speaker 2: from the Release Aging People in Prisons Campaign, very specific
Speaker 2: name exactly what they're doing. The Parole Preparation Project and
Speaker 2: the Brooklyn Defender's Officer and Legal Aid Society and Support
Speaker 2: of the Parole Board's decision released this, and really I
Speaker 2: like what they said. The purpose of parole is to
Speaker 2: evaluate people for release based on who they are today,
Speaker 2: not to extend sentences into perpetuity.
Speaker 3: And I like that.
Speaker 2: Okay, this final case that I'm going to touch on
Speaker 2: is again about like parole. I don't know why none
Speaker 2: of the crimes on the wikier were about solitary confinement
Speaker 2: in all honesty. But here's another This is very interesting.
Speaker 2: Do you know about this about Norman Mahler and Jack rabbit. Okay,
Speaker 2: I think you're gonna be enticed. It's kind of wild. So.
Speaker 2: Jack Henry Abbott is a best selling author and convicted
Speaker 2: killer who was paroled in nineteen eighty one with the
Speaker 2: support of novelist Norman Mailer. So six weeks later after
Speaker 2: he was paroled, he killed a waiter in cold blood
Speaker 2: and then was sentenced to fifteen years to life for manslaughter,
Speaker 2: and while in prison, he did take his own life
Speaker 2: with a bedsheet and a shoelace at his maximum security
Speaker 2: prison in two thousand and two. His lawyer, Michael Kuzma,
Speaker 2: has doubts that he took his own life because he
Speaker 2: had been voicing fears for his safety in recent weeks,
Speaker 2: but a note was found, even if the contents had
Speaker 2: not been released, so we're not really sure. This case
Speaker 2: drew a lot of national headlines and spurred a debate
Speaker 2: about whether the parole system was too lenient, and also
Speaker 2: brought a ton of criticism to Norman Mahler, who was
Speaker 2: obsessed with Abbot and just focused on his literary gifts
Speaker 2: and not the capacity for violence because he's a fucking idiot,
Speaker 2: even though he went to Harvard wrote novels essays, nonfiction
Speaker 2: journalism biographies won Politzer Prizes National Book of WS and
Speaker 2: of course was married six times.
Speaker 3: One of those wives.
Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty he stabbed in the abdomen after a party.
Speaker 2: So Norman Mailer go, fuck yourself, Like this is classic
Speaker 2: when men are like, I don't know. He was like
Speaker 2: so nice and chill, and it's like you could tell
Speaker 2: from a mile away this.
Speaker 3: Is a psychopath.
Speaker 2: But anyways, but to be able to go to Harvard
Speaker 2: and still not under like, it's just something about people
Speaker 2: who think they're intelligent or like BookSmart or literary, or
Speaker 2: like the gifts are above everything else, Like you are
Speaker 2: blinded to true humanity.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 2: So Abbot was in prison to begin with for just
Speaker 2: like writing bad checks. But then he murdered another inmate
Speaker 2: and that is what extended his sentence and put him
Speaker 2: into solitary and stuff like that. So Abbot began sending
Speaker 2: Mailer letters from prison in the late seventies, and with
Speaker 2: the help of Mailer like who wrote an intro. He
Speaker 2: published all these letters in a book called In the
Speaker 2: Belly of the Beast in nineteen eighty one, and in
Speaker 2: the intro, Mailer wrote that the boldness of the juvenile
Speaker 2: delinquent grows into the audacity of the self made intellectual,
Speaker 2: which is wishful.
Speaker 1: Hope honestly likes a bad boy. Norman Mahler likes a
Speaker 1: bad boy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so like, you know, he was just hoping
Speaker 2: it's not crime and punishment, but crime punishment and redemption
Speaker 2: and that talent, I guess redeems you in some way.
Speaker 3: And we see that time and time again.
Speaker 2: I mean, people are still happily listening to r Kelly,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, because whenever someone is bad,
Speaker 2: it's like, well, innocent until proven guilty, and then when
Speaker 2: they're proven guilty, their stance doesn't change. Like he R
Speaker 2: Kelly's in prison. Why are you still listening to him?
Speaker 2: But okay, so, yeah, he just thought that the act
Speaker 2: of writing can transform a violent person into just a
Speaker 2: philosopher of violence. But like, honey, it's not just a theory,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like, if someone lives by
Speaker 2: these princess that they're writing, it's not just an idea
Speaker 2: or philosophy. And this person, you know, Abbott has been
Speaker 2: since the age of twelve, spent all but nine and
Speaker 2: a half months in prison, and fifteen of those years
Speaker 2: were in solitary confinement. Mailer wrote to the Utah Board
Speaker 2: of Corrections that mister Abbott has the making of a
Speaker 2: powerful and important American writer and promised him a job
Speaker 2: as a research assistant at one hundred and fifty dollars
Speaker 2: a week. And when he was released, he was treated
Speaker 2: like a literary celebrity.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: He was on Good Morning America, Good Reviews, Fancy Dinners,
Speaker 2: People Magazine, interviews, SOHO News, he was doing assignments for
Speaker 2: the New York Review of Books in the Atlanta Journal Constitution.
Speaker 3: He signed with an agent.
Speaker 2: People loved the book, and they compared his jail time
Speaker 2: to like political prisoners, which is not the same and
Speaker 2: in two weeks, because that's the whole thing. They're like
Speaker 2: comparing so much of him to like Russian authors and
Speaker 2: stuff like that, Like and I don't know.
Speaker 3: People that were persecuted, but it's like this guy real
Speaker 3: bad checks.
Speaker 1: Like it's like Teresa Judye, I'm sorry you have to
Speaker 1: go to jail, but you guys did do mail fraud,
Speaker 1: like you did steal money, Like I'm not paid taxes
Speaker 1: or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean them being like, oh, they've been through
Speaker 2: a lot it's like, no, no, your parents are criminals.
Speaker 2: You still got to keep your house many people do not,
Speaker 2: and your kids, and you got to like stagger or
Speaker 2: set like your time.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just obviously you can have a hard time within
Speaker 2: your family and struggle, but to try to get like
Speaker 2: empathy from others when you're a slumlord, go fuck yourself.
Speaker 2: So two weeks later, after all these dinners and all
Speaker 2: this fun and all this attention, he stabbed Richard Aden
Speaker 2: twenty two, an aspiring actor and playwright, to death outside
Speaker 2: of an East Village restaurant where he worked as a waiter.
Speaker 2: There was a month long manhunt, and he was found
Speaker 2: in Louisiana. Again, Louisiana. Why are people all fleeing to Louisiana?
Speaker 3: I wonder.
Speaker 2: January nineteen eighty two, he was convicted of first degree manslaughter.
Speaker 3: Wildly.
Speaker 2: Mailer did say he felt a very large responsibility. He said,
Speaker 2: never thought Abbot was close to killing and that's why
Speaker 2: I have to sit in judgment on myself.
Speaker 3: I just was not sensitive to that fact.
Speaker 2: Okay, classic dude stuff, and oh my god, so wild
Speaker 2: the trial was happening for this, you know, murder. Abbot
Speaker 2: represented himself at one point and told Adam's widow, ricci
Speaker 2: Aden that her husband's life was in quote, not worth
Speaker 2: a dime. They just let the psycho represent himself at
Speaker 2: the civil trial.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And yet this is what I mean with this, like
Speaker 2: upper crust people, it's like, oh, well, I think you're good.
Speaker 2: I see your humanity, so you must be you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like this dude is clearly fucked up,
Speaker 2: but so is Norman Mailer. Yeah, And the even wilder
Speaker 2: is that Abbot knew the whole time that Mailer's view
Speaker 2: of him was wrong and he was not the person
Speaker 2: his literary mentor made him out to be. He wrote
Speaker 2: to Mailer in one of the letters in the seventies,
Speaker 2: my life is not a saga, and I resent your
Speaker 2: using the term like that.
Speaker 3: I do not feel heroic. And that's that.
Speaker 1: I do think there is something to be said for
Speaker 1: like looking into this guy Abbott's like past, like he's
Speaker 1: in jail from twelve years old, Like nine and a
Speaker 1: half months of his life have ever been spent in freedom?
Speaker 1: Like I do think that's a little bit one of
Speaker 1: the what the episode is talking about. It's fucked up
Speaker 1: that Norman Mayler was like, I'm gonna bestow you with
Speaker 1: my privilege and decide that you're the chosen one. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, like this guy seems like he's
Speaker 1: a product of the incarceration system and like being in
Speaker 1: jail for most of his fucking life and then he
Speaker 1: just randomly murders waiters and has no value for their lives,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Like no, And this New York Times article talks about
Speaker 2: like usually, you know, even with herman, it's like you
Speaker 2: you leave jail and you're going to parole meetings and
Speaker 2: a halfway how like you're being supervised, there's check ins.
Speaker 2: This guy just went into hanging out with the glitterati
Speaker 2: of the literary Manhattan community being celebrated. So I don't
Speaker 2: I don't even understand how he didn't have parole meetings
Speaker 2: to go to, how he wasn't being monitored, that he
Speaker 2: just got to be on the news and celebrated and
Speaker 2: drink champagne.
Speaker 3: Like that also fucks with you.
Speaker 2: It's like this this admiration and people are obsessed with you,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure that's like such a hard departure from
Speaker 2: what he normally know. The good news is in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety a Manhattan jury did award seven point five to
Speaker 2: seven million in damages to Adam's widow, Ricci.
Speaker 3: So oh because they gave him parole and then he
Speaker 3: killed Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, all the money from this book
Speaker 2: goes to him, to her to like make this oh yeah,
Speaker 2: because he can't profit off of his crimes.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Wow, because I think you heard of the Belly of
Speaker 2: the Beast, Like I've heard that before.
Speaker 3: I think I've heard of that too. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean I think this is like a
Speaker 2: weird collection of kisses that all kind of fit like
Speaker 2: little pieces into what we watched, but definitely not as
Speaker 2: clear cut as a lot of our other episodes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it did interesting, yes, and it didn't like
Speaker 1: focus on any specific like stories of solitary confinement.
Speaker 3: But we're going to get into that a little bit.
Speaker 3: And what would sister Peg do?
Speaker 1: So let's just jump into our post mortem since we
Speaker 1: don't have a guest.
Speaker 3: All right, post mortem time? What did we look?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I don't really agree with
Speaker 1: solitary confinement. I don't know what the answer is, like
Speaker 1: what we're supposed to do with people that are like
Speaker 1: super violent and can't be around the rest of the
Speaker 1: population of the jail. But I do just feel like
Speaker 1: it's making things worse.
Speaker 2: Can't they be in cells that are like in a
Speaker 2: surpal so they can at least like see each other
Speaker 2: sometimes or pass no have a conversation. Yeah, but the
Speaker 2: way they can't have them having ideas. You know, we
Speaker 2: did watch con Air. I finally showed you con Air. Sure, sure,
Speaker 2: we can't have them hatching up too many plans. You're right,
Speaker 2: it's it's tough. It's like you know it's wrong, but
Speaker 2: you don't have the answer. Yeah, because for death penalty
Speaker 2: being against it, there is an answer, but I think
Speaker 2: that's solitary confinement.
Speaker 3: So like I don't know, well not, I don't know
Speaker 3: the people on death row.
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think are are are in solitary Are.
Speaker 2: They Maybe I think they could just do zooms or something,
Speaker 2: but they don't want them to have any technolo like
Speaker 2: they're trying to punish them, but.
Speaker 1: Where they're being punished, but like no outside, no air
Speaker 1: and not a window.
Speaker 3: Like it's too much. I think it's too much.
Speaker 2: I think it's too much punishment. I just feel if
Speaker 2: you're there forever alone. You should get some books, like
Speaker 2: you should get stuff. They just don't trust them. I
Speaker 2: don't know. It is fucked. You're right, we don't have
Speaker 2: the answers. If you have the answer and think this
Speaker 2: is super simple, let us know. Yeah, maybe I have
Speaker 2: the people online that have all the answers.
Speaker 1: I do appreciate the show having Christopher Maloney do like,
Speaker 1: you know, solitary confinement cause play and be in there
Speaker 1: for three days and go absolutely crazy to a pat cockroach.
Speaker 2: So when they brought in the cockroach, do you think
Speaker 2: he was like, yeah, I'm ready. Was he like oh god,
Speaker 2: damn it, or like I've been waiting for this soulm
Speaker 2: oh wait, hold on. We have a friend. I watched
Speaker 2: him do stand up last night and he had a
Speaker 2: really funny joke. I don't want to ruined the joke,
Speaker 2: but I want to not give credit, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. But it's Mosha Kasher and he was saying
Speaker 2: how he has like violent, violent rat traps and he
Speaker 2: heard a rat get stuck in one of the traps,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't dead, and so he was just like, fuck,
Speaker 2: you know, I have to put it out of it.
Speaker 2: It's misery, Like what I've learned from life, is like
Speaker 2: you don't let an animal suffer. But then his daughter
Speaker 2: was like, well, can I come, And so he in
Speaker 2: his head was like, I guess this is a teachable moment.
Speaker 2: Well I'll teach her to like, you know, you gotta
Speaker 2: put animals out of their misery.
Speaker 3: You can't let them be in pain. So they went downstairs.
Speaker 2: But like he said that, like, so he took a
Speaker 2: golf club and hit it on the head, but instead
Speaker 2: of dying, it became stronger, and then he just had
Speaker 2: to keep hitting it and it went into like ten
Speaker 2: fifteen hits. It started pissing itself. The rat is pissing itself.
Speaker 2: It's like screaming. And then he's and then it hits
Speaker 2: him that his daughter's in the room and she's five,
Speaker 2: and so he's like turning around to be like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I fucked up, like go upstairs, but she
Speaker 2: was there with like bloodlust.
Speaker 3: She was like, yeah, I get him, fucking kill it,
Speaker 3: kill it.
Speaker 2: Like she was just super aggressive, like she was in
Speaker 2: a colisseum in Rome and just like screaming for this
Speaker 2: rat's death. And so he thought he traumatized her, but
Speaker 2: really he found out she could be a sociopath, Like,
Speaker 2: we don't know.
Speaker 1: I just saw them last week, the whole fam at
Speaker 1: a pizza place, and she's the sweetest little thing.
Speaker 3: And that's really wild.
Speaker 2: And his joke is just so fun I honestly, last
Speaker 2: night I went up first on this show. I had
Speaker 2: a great time, and then I stayed and watched three comics.
Speaker 2: I was loving it. I was like having the time
Speaker 2: of my life. Everyone was so funny. I've really one person.
Speaker 2: I was kind of annoyed that I found him funny,
Speaker 2: to be honest, but I was into it.
Speaker 3: Wow, it was a Halloween miracle. Yeah. And then.
Speaker 2: Who had a joke about like why is pepper spray
Speaker 2: only for women? He's like, I need to protect myself too,
Speaker 2: and then he goes into like probably a eight minute
Speaker 2: joke about pepper spray that he's pepper sprayed six people,
Speaker 2: how to pepper spray, Like how to get away? And
Speaker 2: then he's like, pepper spray, you gotta run because the
Speaker 2: first time I got cocky, it was like, yeah, take
Speaker 2: that pepper spray, bitch, and it goes, but it blows back,
Speaker 2: it blows back.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. That rat story is really terrifying. I
Speaker 3: know she was just like get it her, daddy, get it,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: So and the rat death, Like I hate rats, but
Speaker 2: I don't like hearing about how this rat was being
Speaker 2: growing stronger and pissing. No, they should have left the
Speaker 2: house and let it die slowly on its own, like
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer, or like get better poison,
Speaker 2: Like obviously it's not a good trap, like get poison. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't think it needs a metal You don't need
Speaker 2: to be snapping its like backbone.
Speaker 3: But that's what they say is the most humane.
Speaker 1: The snap traps are the most humane because it just,
Speaker 1: at least for mice, it just kills them the quickest.
Speaker 3: This was a super rat. It sounds like this rat
Speaker 3: was on roids. No, the pissing itself is the level
Speaker 3: where it's.
Speaker 1: Like, uh fuck and the five year old, I, oh
Speaker 1: my god, Okay, we got it.
Speaker 3: We gotta move on this week.
Speaker 1: You know our segment what would mister Peg Do, where
Speaker 1: we direct you guys towards like a resource, an organization
Speaker 1: and articles, something that gives you more information about the
Speaker 1: episode you saw today. And this episode came out before
Speaker 1: the death of Khalif Browder, which I considered to be
Speaker 1: one of the most tragic, unjust tragedies of modern times.
Speaker 1: He was a black teen from the Bronx who spent
Speaker 1: three years in jail just never being convicted of a
Speaker 1: crime for stealing a backpack. It was not him, and
Speaker 1: it's just a horrible case of how he was kept
Speaker 1: in solitary and later his solitary because of things that
Speaker 1: happened in jail, like what happens in this episode, Like
Speaker 1: he went in for a crime that wasn't that bad,
Speaker 1: but then it's like you defend yourself in jail, you fight,
Speaker 1: and then you get put into solitary.
Speaker 3: So this this all happened when I was living in
Speaker 3: New York. It's horrible.
Speaker 1: And there's a great docum series called Time The Khalif
Speaker 1: Brouder Story. It is on Netflix, and it covers Kalif's
Speaker 1: entire case, and you know, his tragic death and his
Speaker 1: uh subsequent mental health issues after being imprisoned, and the
Speaker 1: legacy after his death. So if you're interested in learning
Speaker 1: a little bit more about solitary confinement and Khalif's Prouder story,
Speaker 1: then please check that out and that will be posted
Speaker 1: in our stories the day that this episode comes out
Speaker 1: and saved forever in our what would Sister Peg do?
Speaker 3: Highlight? Wow, that is so fucking sad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and next week please join us, we'll be doing
Speaker 2: Manhattan Vigil Season fourteen, episode five.
Speaker 3: We're obsessed with all of you. We love meeting all
Speaker 3: of you.
Speaker 2: Thanks for all our cute Taylor Swift style friendship brace
Speaker 2: I can't believe she's takes like it's just beaded bracelets,
Speaker 2: but now they're Taylor Swift bracelets, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And that's friendship bracelets have been around forever and now
Speaker 1: it's like their tailor's they're arrows bracelets.
Speaker 2: Because now when I just see some of the so
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, did you go to Taylor Swift? And
Speaker 2: it's like, no, they went to That's messed up Live.
Speaker 2: That's what they fucking did. I'm obsessed with. Yeah, we're
Speaker 2: just so lucky you guys.
Speaker 3: Listen. God, this Khaliff Browner things really gonna ruin my day.
Speaker 3: I think, I know. No, I'm glad you brought it up.
Speaker 3: I have to watch this. That's so.
Speaker 2: I remember hearing about the backpack and spending three years.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize.
Speaker 3: That he like that. He died.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we will see you guys next week for
Speaker 1: more lightness and darkness as usual on our podcast, Bye guys.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
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Speaker 3: At glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Kasey O'Brien and
Speaker 2: our associate producer Christina.
Speaker 1: Chamberlain, and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest
Speaker 1: booker Patrick Cottner, and.
Speaker 2: To Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly Geen Andrews.
Speaker 3: For our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff,
Speaker 1: Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Dun Dun