1 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: This is Brent Line of Variety Magazine, and I'm joined 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: today in our Los Angeles studio with the co founders 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,279 Speaker 1: of Gunpowder and Sky, Van Tuffler and Flora's Bauer. In 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: a very short period of time, gun Powder and Sky 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: has established itself as a major force in the indie space, 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: releasing such films as Lords of Chaos, Hearts, Beat Loud, 7 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: and Her Smell. It's my great pleasure to have Van 8 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: in Flora's here and we're gonna talk a little bit 9 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: about some major industry trends and familiarize people with Gunpowder 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: and Sky. I think, sort of to start, I'm really 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: interested in your take on the theatrical space right now 12 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: because there's been a lot written about sort of this 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: box office apocalypse. You know, things don't seem to be working, uh, 14 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: theatrically in the way they once did, and that's been 15 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,839 Speaker 1: sort of focused primarily on the major studio films. What's 16 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: been sort of this scene in the indie space? Are 17 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,639 Speaker 1: are things um connecting theatrically? Is is there some spill 18 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: over from sort of the problems and the larger theatrical space. 19 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 1: How's that impacting of the indie space right now? I mean, 20 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: from my perspective, the key is flexibility. Uh, and that's 21 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: what we all talk about amongst ourselves and to filmmakers. 22 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: So unlike the major studios, there's a lot of baggage 23 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: around the relationships with the theater owners and distribution UM. 24 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: And I think being open to how long movies stay 25 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: in theaters, how they released, how they're marketed, UM, and 26 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: when they go to t VOD or SAT or other windows. 27 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: We whenever we go into a film, whether we're making 28 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: it or acquiring it, we talked to the filmmaker is 29 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: to say, let's optimize the release. Sometimes that means bypassing 30 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: theatrical altogether. Sometimes that means a hastened window for theatrical, 31 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: but uh, not being precious that it needs a certain 32 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: level of promotion and time in theaters. UM. Now theater 33 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: owners less flexible, but UM, particularly for young people, you 34 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: have to give them a real reason to spend money 35 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: and go to theaters because the experience isn't as wonderful 36 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 1: as it was for us as kids. It was, first 37 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: of all, is the only time you could see movies. 38 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: But UM, technology is enabled kids to watch stuff on 39 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: demand how they want, when they want. At their freedom. UM, 40 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: So you really have to give them a compelling reason 41 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: of making an event to go to theaters. And that's 42 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: that's a pretty high bar. Um So I think that uh, 43 00:02:55,120 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: having flexibility, being a smaller independent studio, it enables you 44 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: to do that. Um And the fact of the matter 45 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: is the trending is just not great for movie with you. 46 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: Someone told me, um, and I grew up in New York, 47 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: so that there are twenty plus percent less seats in 48 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: particularly Midtown to downtown then there were a few years ago. 49 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 1: That doesn't bode well for theatrical revenues. Um. So when 50 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: you're when you're talking about having flexibility, what do you 51 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: mean by that? What sort of Gunpowder and Sky's approach? 52 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: When when you pick up a film, are you doing 53 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: a traditional theatrical window? Are you doing some kind of hybrid? 54 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,119 Speaker 1: Are you going straight to um s bod's avods? How 55 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: do you approach a release of a film? I'll let 56 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: you speak in a second, but all of the above. So, Uh, 57 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: for example, we haven't sort of concluded this definitively, but 58 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: we just acquired a documentary on on this wonderful young 59 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: rapper Little People on fortun Only Die he's a sort 60 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: of emblematic of these young rappers who go from obscurity 61 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: to infamy of via SoundCloud. Um. And unfortunately he overdosed, 62 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 1: but he has these rabid rabbit fans, rabbid young fans, 63 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: and we are thinking about doing a one night only 64 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: release that may have exclusive music in theaters and then 65 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: it will go to tivon spot, So literally twenty four hours. Um, 66 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: we did this, you know, when I was at MTV 67 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: with Madonna's Truth or Dare to the second movie, we 68 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: had one week in theaters, and so sometimes we do 69 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: ninety days, uh, and then we go to tivon spots. 70 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: Sometimes we'll sell movies right to spots. So the first 71 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: four movies we did, we're with Jason Blum, and we 72 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: sold two of those to Netflix, and two of those 73 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: two HBO and CAM. One in particular on Netflix was 74 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: released over the Thanksgiving holidays and probably more people saw 75 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: that within a week than have seen a lot of 76 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: Jason's films and theaters, which he admitted, Um, So I 77 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: think you just have to figure out what's right for 78 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: each project. And are you finding that that's you know, 79 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: a more profitable model for you? Does it help you 80 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: in terms of your marketing spend, your distribution costs. Are 81 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: you getting more of the revenue from a film release 82 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: by not going, you know, a traditional sort of theatrical 83 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: run for some of these films. Definitely, I think, UM, 84 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: because we don't pre set the distribution strategy and we 85 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: really look at it in a holistic way. How can 86 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: we create maximum awareness UM with efficient spending. UM. We 87 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: look at all the windows, including theatrical very specifically. So 88 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: for us, there's no point over spending theatrical if we 89 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: don't think that is where most of our audiences to 90 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: watch the film. UM. And we always set the distribution 91 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: strategy after testing it and thinking about it a lot internally. 92 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: So probably our biggest windows from a revenue point of view, 93 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: or at least a net revenue point of view, off 94 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: the marketing s bend are our second window, so so HBO, Netflix, TVA. 95 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: And when you're having conversations with with filmmakers, I mean, 96 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: how open are they to this? Because I feel like 97 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: you still read in trade press, you know when there's 98 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: a big bidding war or something like that, that you 99 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: know that that these filmmakers still want that that traditional 100 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: theatrical release. Is that becoming you know, a little bit 101 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: of an anachronism. Or are people more open to two 102 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: novel distribution strategies or do you still have to kind 103 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: of have a kind of a tough conversation with people. 104 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: It depends they're much more open than they used to be. 105 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: You know, if I were to do uh Jack Assid 106 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: Napoleon Dynamite, they may have bypassed theaters altogether. Right, But 107 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: on one in particular, I acquired this movie foot fist 108 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: Way with Will Smith and Adam McKay and Jody Hill, 109 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: who did He's Bounded Down, Who's just a great, wonderful 110 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: young director. Uh. We we felt because I think it 111 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: may have been the second or first worst testing movie 112 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: in Paramounts history, right, And we tried to convince Jody 113 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: to release it on Funnier Die and MTV dot com 114 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: at the time, and he wanted a traditional theatrical window. 115 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: Was his first movie, so we couldn't argue with that. 116 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: But I bet if we had that conversation today, uh, 117 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: he might feel differently because we would market it socially 118 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: and viral e and potentially get more eyeballs than would 119 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: go see that movie and pay ten knowledge to see 120 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: in the movie theaters. And just to add, I think 121 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: a lot of the people and filmmakers were talking to 122 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: ultimately also want a successful release, So it's not only 123 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: about the amount of theaters. They want the release to 124 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: be seen as successful and they want to get into 125 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: the theaters where they think the audience which will most 126 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: likely want to see it is going to see it. 127 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: So it's more quality over quantity, the same as in 128 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: terms of the length of the release. Sometimes I wonder 129 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: when when people talk about, you know, the theatrical experience, 130 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: and they have this sort of reverence for it. Um. 131 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: I mean, do you think consumers feel the same way, 132 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: because I know that that quite frankly, I don't always 133 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: have a wonderful experience when I go to a movie theater. 134 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: Maybe it's dirty, maybe people are talking. I mean, maybe 135 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: I would prefer to just watch something in the home. 136 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: I mean, is that something that that people aren't really 137 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: listening to what consumers are telling them when they sort 138 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: of talk about it in that and that sort of, um, 139 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: almost religious quasi religious way. It's hard. I mean, you 140 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: think about the evolutionary lack of evolution of the in 141 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: theater experience. It hasn't changed that much, right. I mean, 142 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: you've got some Imax theaters, you've got theaters, your reserve 143 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: seats um that are are wonderful, but they're they're more 144 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: of the anomaly. Uh. And so I think you've got 145 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: to make either the movie or the experience exceptional. Having 146 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: a bar and a lot of the movie theaters is good. 147 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,599 Speaker 1: So Alamo is having success with younger movie going audiences 148 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: because it's a better experience, it's a night out. But 149 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: I think that people are not listening enough to the 150 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: consumers saying, you know what, it's not worth me paying 151 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: all this money for that experience. I'd rather stay home 152 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 1: or wait for the movie to get into a window 153 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: that I can enjoy at home. Yeah, and it's I 154 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: think it's it's it's the cost of the ticket. But 155 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: always deals so driving there and the parking and the X, 156 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: Y and Z, and we were talking a little bit 157 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: about the sort of the filmmakers and and they're growing 158 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: flexibility with some of these distributions strategies. But there's office 159 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 1: obviously another party involved in that, and that's the theater 160 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: owners themselves. So what are you sort of hearing from 161 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: that end of things? I mean, are they being flexible 162 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: to about letting your movies in. I mean, how how 163 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: is that kind of conversation too? You know, I think 164 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: they've been pretty great to tell you the truth, as 165 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: long as you work with them in terms of release 166 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 1: dates and and when you have the theaters, they want 167 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: more programming, they want alternative program and clearly Disney students 168 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: still doing really well with four quadrant event movies, but 169 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: they like to have the options. Now that may mean 170 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: you're not in three thousand theaters. You can start in 171 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: fifty and go to a few hundred. But I think 172 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: that the theater owners like alternatives, and I also believe 173 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: they'll maybe movie past and get it right. They're open 174 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: to altern of pricing, particularly at low traffic times a day. 175 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: You mean sort of subscription service kinds of things ees 176 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: or flexible pricing. Um, let's let's go back to kind 177 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: of the formation of Gunpowder and Sky. Um Fan, I 178 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: know that you had a lot of experience. You were 179 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: at Vatcom, you were at MTV films, UM and uh Floriss, 180 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 1: you were at end them all. How did you guys 181 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: get together and why did you see this as a 182 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: space you you wanted to go into? Well, you know, 183 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: I think separately Floris and I had a similar notion 184 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: of kind of a premium content studio that was sort 185 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: of youth oriented, forward looking, that would create content for 186 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: newer platforms. It just felt like there was a content renaissance. 187 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: There were platforms emerging UM every day, and a lot 188 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: of the content, particularly for young people, was was amateur 189 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: was based on you know, kids were posting videos, so 190 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: there was an opportunity to create more premium content that 191 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: targeted young people. And UM also there was gonna be 192 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: uh sort of a day of reckoning with linear TV 193 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: channels where they were going to have to find alternative 194 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: sources of programming because the audiences were getting smaller. So 195 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: all those things lad each of us separately to uh 196 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: come up with this notion of creating UM a content studio, 197 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: creating brands that could live on O T T platforms 198 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: targeting young people. And we got together primarily through Peter 199 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: Turning and Honor and uh this was when when did 200 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: you guys form the company story? And we were prepared 201 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: for it hobby or something. So the market looks very 202 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: different at that time and what right, well, when we 203 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: when we came up with the notion of the studio. 204 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: We were seeing that audience isn't obviously specifically younger people 205 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: were moving where very quickly from traditional and linear TV 206 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: channels to these new platforms, and on these new platforms 207 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: you had, like what Ben was saying, from cat videos, 208 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: make the totals, etcetera, which are very meaningful in themselves, 209 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: but it's not, as we call it, kind of premium content. 210 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 1: With the shift, we assumed that at some point when 211 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: the audience moves, as a rule of media, at some 212 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: point um uh, advertising, subscription, etcetera, revenues will follow, and 213 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: because of that, you're able to spend more money on 214 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: the content. And with more money coming into the space, 215 00:13:54,080 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: more quality, newer creators, newer formats, um etcetera. That what 216 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: we were betting on when we came into the market 217 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: and set up this new studio purely focused on premium 218 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: content for the space. That market was not there right 219 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: it was. Everybody was talking about the digital pennies and 220 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,719 Speaker 1: the m c ns at that stage. UM, So we 221 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: were taking a bet that what we thought what was 222 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: gonna happen was gonna happen. You had some smaller digital 223 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: players who were uh starting to spend some money like 224 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: the the go nineties watchables, et cetera. Um, since then, 225 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: we we we the market has actually shifted way quicker 226 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: than we could have hoped for. With now all these 227 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: new O T T platforms which are looking for differentiated 228 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: content as well as you focused content. So we're having 229 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: the Warners, the Apples, the Netflix, Quimby, come const launching 230 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: news services, the monetization on YouTube becoming better. Um, So 231 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: there is more and more outlets and demands uh for 232 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: premium content, differentiated premium content from both films, series as 233 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: well as brands and channels. So where do you fit 234 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: into all of this? Because you're absolutely right, I feel 235 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: like in the last year and a half, I mean, 236 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: you have such major players coming into this space. Um. 237 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: You know, as you mentioned, Warner just announcing yesterday just 238 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: just you know this week, Uh, their their HBO Max service. 239 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: You have Disney Plus coming in, you have this a 240 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: VOD service that Comcast is launching. Apple. Where do you 241 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: fit into this? Are you going to be a provider 242 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: of content for them? Are you a competitor? How does 243 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: this work? And then you have something like Quimby, which 244 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: is which is a little different with its sort of 245 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: short form content. Well, we're providing content to all those services. 246 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: To tell you the truth, we haven't announced the series, 247 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: but to Warner streaming service with Quimby, we're doing that 248 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: first series, fifty States of Terror. We're doing movies for 249 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: these services. Um, so it's it's a great time to 250 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: make premium content for these different platforms, you know. In 251 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: addition to that, though, we're not sort of randomly um uh, 252 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: kind of picking the categories that we play in. We 253 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: have specific genres that we're doubling down in, so sci fi, horror, music, unscripted, um, comedy. 254 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: And as part of that, we're also creating these sort 255 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: of branded ecosystems that have primarily lived in the AVOD world. So, um, 256 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: we have a channel called Dust, which is a sci 257 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: fi channel, and if you think about it, the next 258 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: Ridley Scott will come out of the digital ecosystem. And 259 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: in fact, we've got over five hundred short films right 260 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: with with name actors. We were acquired George Lucas's first film, 261 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: Robert Semeckis and all these young filmmakers are making these 262 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: sort of thirteen or less minute films that live in 263 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: this world. They're consumed in this world. But then there's 264 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: this i P that we can spin off and sell 265 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: to other platforms, so they're also i P forms as well. 266 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: Um and so these genres we pick, we double down 267 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: on them, We create content if they belong on a 268 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: different platform like quimby or in theaters. Uh, you know 269 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: a movie prospect came out of dust um, and then 270 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: that's where they will live. So it's this combination of 271 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: branded ecosystems that aren't really competing with quib because they're 272 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: living on Facebook and YouTube and roku and they live 273 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: on Apple and Samsung and other platforms. Uh. And then 274 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: we have i P that we kind of sell to 275 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: different platforms and you're making money through advertising or through 276 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: subscribe option or how does that work too? So so 277 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: these these these brands, they do everything as Van mentioned, 278 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: from short form two series, two films to bodcasts, and 279 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: we have around direct to consumer channels which live on 280 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: across a bunch of platforms. On the films and series, 281 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: we make money through books Office, ti vo, UM sales 282 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: to Netflix, HBO. Then the channels we generate revenues through 283 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: programmatic advertising UM, and we will through affiliate fees and 284 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,719 Speaker 1: subscription in the coming period. So I think and and 285 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: coming back to, we think the opportunity is there is 286 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: a big opportunity for for indie studios to create and 287 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: sell grade content, especially if you have differentiated content, targeted content, 288 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 1: and then creating these larger brands where we want to 289 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: be a trusted cuader and programmer within a specific genre. 290 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: And these brands can live on the bigger platforms like 291 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 1: Apple and Amazon and Samsung and Comcast, so where instead 292 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: of only selling one off films and series were also 293 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: packaging them in larger propositions. And I think as the 294 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 1: next um ah he said iteration, I think you're going 295 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: to see a lot of these larger platforms which need 296 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: to become larger and larger and attract more and more people. 297 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: Everybody's focused on originals, original content, which is extremely important, 298 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 1: but in order for these platforms to ultimately become successful, 299 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: they need more existing brands on their platform to attract 300 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: larger amounts of audience and reduce programming and marketing calls 301 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: and have sticky content on their platforms. So I think 302 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: you're going to see a lot of brands existing and 303 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: new brands come up. Is that because it's almost like 304 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: a sign of quality or something for for a user. 305 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: What why do you think? I think, yeah, I think 306 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: you're seeing a lot of people who are now saying 307 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: I think one which which is I think a mistake 308 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: where people say young people only want v o D content, 309 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: They want to watch it whatever they want, and they 310 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: want to find it themselves. I think ultimately people care 311 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: about brands right people where the same sneakers people want 312 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: to listen to playlists Spotify. You want to be part 313 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: of a brand. You want to know that if you 314 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: go to a trusted brand, you're going to find something 315 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: good and you can talk about it with your friends. 316 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: Um and UM. I think that reduces the amount of 317 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: spend on programming and your it reduces your spend on marketing. 318 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people now we've seen 319 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: the issues with for example, Netflix, that sometimes it takes 320 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: you fifteen or thirty minutes to find something you want, 321 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 1: and I think people are going to start focusing on 322 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 1: that more and more. Um. It makes a lot of 323 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: sense that that a smaller player, whose nimble could really 324 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: profit from from all this change, because it feels like 325 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: this change is just so accelerated. Things are so different 326 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: and just a matter of months. But I've also recently 327 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 1: been just sort of going around to traditional studios and 328 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: I see this massive infrastructure, and I wonder what your 329 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 1: thoughts are, as people who have also you know, worked 330 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: in that space to how do these companies pivot? I mean, 331 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: is it difficult when you have all of this infrastructure, 332 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: these jobs, these all these people who are on your payroll, 333 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: and you know, ways of releasing content to the world 334 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: that are so sort of baked into your business model. 335 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: How how hard is it for these companies to adjust 336 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: to to this you know, new Frontier. It's, um, it's 337 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: really hard. I think that um, you know what was 338 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: his Steve Jobs expression that the people created the last 339 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: invention are probably the last people are going to do 340 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: the next one, because I have to get out of 341 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,439 Speaker 1: their own way. And there's all this sort of baggage 342 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: that and and a lot of it is is good 343 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 1: or bad baggage. But you know, I think that, UM, 344 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: being at Viacom, uh, it was really important that UM. 345 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: Anybody who stops listening to the consumer first, that's when 346 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: you get into trouble. So MTV was a bit of 347 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: a canary in a coal mine. All these young people 348 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: were watching videos on YouTube. They were consuming content on YouTube, 349 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: but because there were traditional distribution deals where direct TV 350 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: or podcast would pay a billion dollars for the content 351 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: on MTV, MTV couldn't put its content on the platform 352 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 1: where most consumers were going. And so that was it 353 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: was a nice baggage to have. You got a big 354 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: check for your content, but then you couldn't be flexible 355 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 1: and put it where people wanted to consume your content. 356 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 1: When you don't have that baggage and you are small, 357 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: you can follow the consumer. The consumer wants to watch 358 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: a movie you make on Demanding Home and will pay 359 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 1: the same price, well that's where you should be. Um. 360 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: So I think that that the studios recognized the shift 361 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: in consumer behavior. Look at the decline in linear TV ratings, 362 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 1: the decline and young people going to movie theaters. It's there, 363 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: but it's really hard when you've got a lot of 364 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: partners involved to say the theater owners, oh, by the way, 365 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: i'm gonna short in your window from ninety days to 366 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: thirty days. You're good with that, right. You've seen the 367 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: reactions that the theater owners have like, hey, come on now, 368 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: so it's it's gonna take a beat. It really is. 369 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: We don't have that baggage. We can just listen to 370 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,719 Speaker 1: the consumer and and the purity of purpose provides us 371 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: a lot of freedom. Yeah, I think, and I think 372 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: there's a lot of smart people at these larger places. 373 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: But I think also the the having to focus on 374 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: keeping your revenues and your profitability up whilst actually in 375 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: order to pivot to the new world, you're gonna have 376 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: to do things which in the short to medium term 377 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: will actually you're focusing on lower profit initiatives and you're 378 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: gonna have to let go of a couple of juicy, 379 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: juicy deals. Um. And for that you need to also 380 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: have shareholders which kind of appreciate you going into that direction. 381 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: I think that that's that's the balance which a lot 382 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: of people are having to con Well, it's interesting you 383 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: say that because I talked sometimes to analysts and I'm 384 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,479 Speaker 1: kind of struck by the fact that they treat a 385 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: lot of these streaming services. They almost see them as 386 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: just additive, that it's just going to add revenues to, 387 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, their overall sort of pie. But they're taking 388 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: content away, you know, they're they're wrapping up licensing deals 389 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: which you're basically and at least in my estimation, pure 390 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: profit for them putting you know, pulling that back, putting 391 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: it on their service, which comes with all kinds of 392 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: attendant costs. So I guess I'm just sort of what 393 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: kind of if you're a publicly traded company, isn't that 394 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 1: really problematic if you have to do things when you're 395 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: what you If you just look at it from a 396 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 1: pure number standpoint, you think this is this was a 397 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: terrible quarter, right, I mean, how how do you do that? Explain? 398 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: Like this is gone of costs pix for the next 399 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: ten years. But the opportunity is why, and that's why 400 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: are you going to do it? And for a Netflix 401 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: that's as a premium play coming from the less quote 402 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: unquote digital sign of it, it's an easier thing to 403 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: explain than for a for another big studio legacy revenue. 404 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: It isn't two sided coin because they're getting big license fees, 405 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 1: but they don't have a direct relationship with their audience, 406 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: and that's the price they pay. And so the pot 407 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: at the end of the rainbow is I'm going to 408 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: get my content back and now I'm gonna know who's 409 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: watching it and so when I release a movie or 410 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: I release something with that actor in it, I can 411 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: talk to them directly. Why do you think, um, that 412 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: that legacy media companies have other than Disney sort of 413 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: And actually I would argue MTV at least at one 414 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: point have that kind of direct relationship with its consumers. 415 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: Is it because they use sort of third party to 416 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: get their content out of the world. Why do they 417 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: have Why have they why have they sort of failed 418 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 1: to establish that kind of connection. Oh, because there were 419 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: middlemen for the most part, there were cable operators and 420 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: so and there was a really imperfect system Nielsen that 421 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: took a very small sample of the country that only 422 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: took their live viewing for a long time. So the 423 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: way we got information was through emails and phone calls. 424 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: When when they didn't like something, we heard it from 425 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: an email. But it wasn't as if we had this 426 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 1: direct conversation we knew who was watching it in the 427 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: Midwest or who liked what record or video. Where we 428 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: just had to to beg and borrow and so it 429 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: was just there were middlemen involved. So if you're somebody 430 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 1: who's sort of entering this space, I mean, where do 431 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: you see sort of the opportunities without giving away uh, 432 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: you know, competitive advantages. You know, a lot of people 433 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: that I talked to seem very anxious about this, this 434 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 1: new frontier. They're frankly, they're almost depressed about sort of 435 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: how things are changing. You both seem to feel that 436 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: there's a lot of opportunity. What what sort of it's 437 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: exciting to you right now? Well, I think this this 438 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: is part of the show for both of us at 439 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: big companies who did things a certain way, you know, 440 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: and them all make great content, they make great formats. 441 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: They sold it to traditional television networks around the world. Um, 442 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: what's changed is the consumer is in control and that 443 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: is really exciting. They tell you how they want to 444 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: see things. And as a content maker, if you're again, 445 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: if you're not precious about your windowing, then that is 446 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: a huge opportunity. So if you make your movie, maybe 447 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: HBO will buy it, or maybe the new Warner streaming service, 448 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: or maybe Hulu will take your channel and distribute it 449 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: for you, or Roku you know this great a vod 450 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: system will take your channel and they'll sell ads against 451 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: it and they don't charge five dollars a month to 452 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: a consumer. Um, I think as long as you're open 453 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: to the noise of culture and consumption, then that's a 454 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: huge opportunity. But as we talked about, if you're married 455 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: to an old system that pays you a lot of 456 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: money and you have to keep your profit margin a 457 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: certain way, it's tough to pivot and embrace that as 458 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: quickly as new companies can. Yeah, and we we don't 459 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: need the traditional gatekeepers to build our I P and 460 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: our brands, right, so we because we're building these brands 461 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: that if we can go with a series to a 462 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: buyer and see if anyone is interested, or if we 463 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: think it's actually better, or we can do we can 464 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: tell it in a shorter amount of time, we can 465 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,239 Speaker 1: put things on our own channels, and as long as 466 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: an audience agrees with us that it's interesting and they 467 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: love our brands, we're going to continue to grow. It's 468 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: interesting that you were talking about launching in because there 469 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: were a number of other indie studios that launched at 470 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: about the same time. And you know, I'm thinking of 471 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: um Open Road in one of its sort of iterations, 472 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: and and broad Green and Relativity have been there for 473 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: a little while. But st X really high mortality rate. 474 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: When you when you look at those names, where did 475 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: where did they go wrong in your estimation? Because we've 476 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: talked a lot about sort of big traditional media, why 477 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: did some of the smaller players also sort of failed 478 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: to thrive? Well, I mean, I know it's a bit 479 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: of a buzz kill, but but I think they went 480 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: into it relying on traditional windowing. To tell you the truth, 481 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: and and and so um, if you don't keep your 482 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: costs in check, both in the negative costs of making 483 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: a movie and your overhead, then you're gonna get burned 484 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: if the traditional windows don't pay off for you, and 485 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: so one or two failed movies costs you tens of 486 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: millions of dollars. And we, uh, we didn't sort of 487 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: go fall into that trap. Really, and particularly if you're 488 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: targeting young people, you don't have to spend hundreds of 489 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: millions of negative costs. You can just make it fun 490 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: and innovative and novel and they'll try to find it. 491 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: Uh So, if you open the studio and relied on 492 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: traditional windowing and traditional models, then there would be a 493 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: high mortality rate unless you just keep banging out hits. Um. 494 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: We're also about to go into the Toronto Film Festival, 495 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: which I assume you you will both be at this 496 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: year's Sundance. The prices for a lot of content made 497 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: big headlines in a huge sales for things like The 498 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: Report and Runs a marathon and Late Night, which which 499 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: did not do well. Uh do you expect those prices 500 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: to be as high at future festivals? I mean, I 501 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: feel like there's like a a boom and bus cycle 502 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: or something. You know, you have one here where it's 503 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: four was a bit of a bus. So what what 504 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: was it that happened that that goost prices at the 505 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: last Sundance? Will there be a kind of a hangover 506 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: effect at future film festivals? But what's your sort of 507 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: take on that? I mean, I don't know what Flores 508 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: feels about. I think you're right, it is it is 509 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: our peaks and valleys. I think that the last year, 510 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: streamers in particular and particularly Amazon came in with checkbook 511 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: and wanted to say, we're going to buy these sort 512 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: of broader movies. I didn't personally think that Late Night 513 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: belonged in theaters. I thought it was and is a 514 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: perfectly great movie for Amazon. It's a good, really good 515 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: family movie. It's funny, Um, and then who knows, next 516 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: year they may not show up where maybe Netflix comes 517 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: in and pays a lot of money, but the year 518 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: before they kind of sat out right for us. It's 519 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: the great thing about our studio is that's why we 520 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: we don't consider ourselves to be in the studio because 521 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: we do more things. Is that if there are more 522 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: aggressive buyers, it's harder for us to acquire titles. On 523 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: the other hand, it's it's a better market for us 524 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: to develop and sell our our films and series. So 525 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: it's great if if if if there's an again aggressive 526 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: buyers coming into Toronto, it's a good sign for us 527 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: in other parts of our business and on the acquisition side. 528 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: We we don't need to fill pipeline of let's say, 529 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: its films a year because we have output deals or 530 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: because we have an overhead to to to to support. 531 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: So we're very fine to release fifteen films a year. 532 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 1: We're also very good to release two to five films 533 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,399 Speaker 1: a year because you're not saying I have to hit 534 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: a certain number each year or something like that. Are 535 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: some contractual obligations, right, And also we don't have contractual obligations, 536 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: which is another kind of issue. As you know with 537 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 1: with with some other studios, you have contractual obligations to 538 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: be in a certain amount of theaters, and then that 539 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: starts hitting your p and a whilst actually you might 540 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: not believe that it should actually be in that many theaters, 541 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: but people are putting them out regardless because they have 542 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 1: these obligations. It doesn't help anyone. That's a great point 543 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,879 Speaker 1: because when you look at these sales prices, you think, oh, 544 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: it's sport two million dollars, but you don't realize, oh, well, 545 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: there's actually a twenty million dollar acomm that's right. That's right. 546 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 1: Because the year before we had a movie we produced 547 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 1: called Summer of eighty four and we were kind of 548 00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: like people didn't buy for theatrical release, like oh, and 549 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,399 Speaker 1: then we sold the two shutter and and it was 550 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: one of, if not their most viewed movie at the time, 551 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: and so we sold it around the world. So in 552 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: some ways, the market speaks for itself and and the 553 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: project finds the right home eventually, but being married to 554 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 1: having to spend all that money to release it theatrically 555 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 1: and not knowing what the outcome will be, that gets 556 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: to be dangerous at times. So could you tell me 557 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 1: what what's behind the name? What gunpatern skuy what? What 558 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: does that mean? Absolutely nothing? It is uh, it's I 559 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: don't sleep and it it came to me in a dream. 560 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 1: That was because when I was developing my own plan, 561 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: I called the studio below the Radar, only to find 562 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: out there were fifteen studios named below the Radar. But um, 563 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: it was and I, uh, this lyric kept coming to me. 564 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: I do not like guns at all, just just to 565 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: be clear, but it it had this infinite possibility. And 566 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: it's from an amy Man song and it is actually 567 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 1: meant to be ironic because it's the song fourth of 568 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:16,240 Speaker 1: July gunpowder Sky, what a waste of wait yeah, yeah whatever, 569 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 1: it's ironic and and but it felt like it had 570 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: this sort of infinite possibility and uh, and I called 571 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: amy Man and she I didn't. I didn't really have to, 572 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: but I called her it just comically it felt like 573 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: I wanted to. And She's like, as long as you 574 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,720 Speaker 1: treat artists fairly, then I will bless it. So we've 575 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,439 Speaker 1: we've tried to live up to that mantra. Well, Van 576 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: and Force, thank you so much for joining us, and 577 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: really appreciate it great. Thanks travelings. This has been another 578 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: episode of Strictly Business. Tune in next week for another 579 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: helping of scintillating conversation with media movers and shakers, and 580 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: please make sure you subscribe to the podcast to hear 581 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: future episodes. Also, leave a review in Apple Podcast let 582 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: us know how we're doing.