Speaker 1: Welcome to PM Mood then no Talking Points, no bullshit
Speaker 1: podcast that takes you behind the curtain, off the red carpet,
Speaker 1: and to the front lines of progress with change makers
Speaker 1: and innovators that are doing the work to shift our
Speaker 1: culture and expand their social impact. I am so excited
Speaker 1: to welcome to PM mood. Actor, author, activists, all around,
Speaker 1: just goodhearted human Hill Harper, Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: joining me. We are you know. I tell folks now
Speaker 1: that come on and do the show. We can't escape Corona,
Speaker 1: PM Mood. The whole idea behind the show was to
Speaker 1: talk to folks like yourself in order to understand how
Speaker 1: you utilize your social platform to increase your social impact.
Speaker 1: And I think that now more than ever, as we're
Speaker 1: all living in the midst of a global pandemic, we
Speaker 1: need folks like you to be on the ground doing
Speaker 1: the work. And so you are and you are coming
Speaker 1: to us from Detroit, Michigan. And I think that in
Speaker 1: the midst of all of this, with the sheltering at
Speaker 1: home and the quarantining and the social distancing and the
Speaker 1: washing your hands, we're forgetting about those folks who haven't
Speaker 1: been able to have the ability to do any of
Speaker 1: the things I have just listed. Ever specifically, you have
Speaker 1: been working with folks in Flint, Michigan. Who, if I'm
Speaker 1: not mistaken, we are going on what six years with
Speaker 1: them not having water? Six years? Yes, so in a
Speaker 1: with a pandemic that acquires us right in order or
Speaker 1: to stay safe, to wash our hands, to um to do,
Speaker 1: to wash our surfaces, and all these things explain to us.
Speaker 1: Give give, give me the picture of what is going
Speaker 1: on in Flint, what has been going on, and now
Speaker 1: what has been exacerbated by the pandemic. Okay, so wow,
Speaker 1: that's a huge and long story. I'll try to be
Speaker 1: as concise as possible. But about five years ago I
Speaker 1: was invited to Flint to do a community event in
Speaker 1: the city. Um it was Ryan Kugler. This is previous
Speaker 1: Black Panther. Yeah, Jesse Williams and a group of singers
Speaker 1: and other folks. We came in to do this event
Speaker 1: to basically support the community. His brother came up to
Speaker 1: me after as a hill opera. Man, I read your books.
Speaker 1: I love you, brother, and I know you're committed, but
Speaker 1: but but you got to promise me someone. I was
Speaker 1: like what man? He said, Man, we got so many
Speaker 1: celebrities coming here. They come in, take a selfie, and
Speaker 1: then we never see him again. Yeah, they're using us
Speaker 1: for publicity, but they're actually not staying around to see
Speaker 1: if anything happens. He said, promise me you'll come back,
Speaker 1: and I said, brother, I promise. And so I've gotten
Speaker 1: more and more intrenchimauty because you become friends with the peat,
Speaker 1: with folks there, you become rooted in the community. So
Speaker 1: I've gone back and back and back and held a
Speaker 1: number of events and all sorts of different things started doing,
Speaker 1: using which my mother was very happy about, using my
Speaker 1: law degree. Finally, we created a Social Justice Law partnership
Speaker 1: to get folks to register for the lawsuit where we're
Speaker 1: trying to establish a Flint Victims Fund, much like the
Speaker 1: nine to eleven Victims Fund, because you don't know how
Speaker 1: led impacts you over time, and all of these kids
Speaker 1: have been poisoned and we don't know when certain learning
Speaker 1: disabilities make crop up. They may not be showing symptoms.
Speaker 1: Now we need a victims fund so you can so
Speaker 1: there's money available. If there is special needs, you can
Speaker 1: be able to come to the victim's fun just like
Speaker 1: the nine eleven victims, the first responders. A lot of
Speaker 1: the medical problems didn't show up the first year or two,
Speaker 1: but they started to present themselves. So same thing. So
Speaker 1: doing that work, meeting a lot of people. As soon
Speaker 1: as this crisis hit, started getting a DM on my Instagram.
Speaker 1: Hey Hill, you know we've met a direct message on
Speaker 1: my Twitter, some emails, some texts. Yo're there's a crisis
Speaker 1: within a crisis happening. We need help. This is a
Speaker 1: water desert. So just for instance, just I need to
Speaker 1: paint the picture. Flynn is one of the poorest cities
Speaker 1: in America. Forty one percent of the folks who live
Speaker 1: there live below an already very low poverty line. Most
Speaker 1: of the people who are that make up that forty
Speaker 1: one percent or African American women age twenty three to
Speaker 1: thirty five, many of whom are single moms. You're talking
Speaker 1: about folks who are still there, and people have the
Speaker 1: audacity to hit me and say, man, you're doing more
Speaker 1: a flint. Why are people still living there? I mean,
Speaker 1: if it's that bad, they should leave. And it's like,
Speaker 1: I want to be leaving. And it's the same thing
Speaker 1: that people said during Katrina. Leaving requires resources yeah, in
Speaker 1: order for you to flee, whether whether it's in the
Speaker 1: wake of a hurricane or a global penn and people
Speaker 1: fled New York and our out all over the place
Speaker 1: because they have the ability to do that. People don't
Speaker 1: understand it requires means economic mobility and mobility period but
Speaker 1: based on economics is one of the biggest privileges that
Speaker 1: anyone can Yep, if you're in a war torn country,
Speaker 1: why don't you just leave? If they're a refugee, if
Speaker 1: you're in a refugee camp, why don't you just leave?
Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't work that way, It doesn't work.
Speaker 1: So the people who had the means to lead Flint
Speaker 1: have left. Okay, the people who are still there it is.
Speaker 1: It is sad, and it's hurtful. And not every single
Speaker 1: person there And I'm not casting. There are people there
Speaker 1: who are really trying to Like I'm from Flint, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna stay here and see it recover. And even though
Speaker 1: I could leave. So there are those folks, But there
Speaker 1: there are many people there that just don't have the
Speaker 1: ability to and and and also a water desert happened,
Speaker 1: you know, much like we talked about food deserts. Why
Speaker 1: doesn't happen because even in wealthy communities, you saw that
Speaker 1: folks were having trouble getting water at a point, right,
Speaker 1: so just think about a place like Flint. So we
Speaker 1: decided to put together I decided to put together very
Speaker 1: quickly a gofund me campaign. Um the initial raised was
Speaker 1: twenty four thousand to try to get about ten thousand
Speaker 1: gallons of fresh water there. Um Ian levan Zant challenged
Speaker 1: me and said, you didn't shoot high enough. You got
Speaker 1: to raise that to fifty thousand. She helped with a
Speaker 1: lot of her supporters to give, you know, relatively small
Speaker 1: amounts because it was all about you know right now
Speaker 1: is you don't want to ask people to over extend
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of economic uncertainty. But right because
Speaker 1: and give, and it's a lot of people giving, it
Speaker 1: adds up. And so we've made it up to fifty
Speaker 1: seven thousand dollars. We just had this morning another five
Speaker 1: thousand gallon giveaway on the east side of Flint, whereas
Speaker 1: there's a large Latino population and you know, again two
Speaker 1: and a half hour line of cars. The need there
Speaker 1: is so extreme h and obviously this is triash. So
Speaker 1: we're doing these things there's like get water there because
Speaker 1: they need it now. Um. And we want to create
Speaker 1: more sustainable solutions over time, and that's part of the
Speaker 1: work we want to do. But right now it wasn't
Speaker 1: time to just have a form to talk about sustainable solutions.
Speaker 1: It's about, hey, folks need water right now. We got
Speaker 1: to get it there within this crisis. He'll tell me,
Speaker 1: you know, what is Governor Whitmer doing? What? What? What is?
Speaker 1: What is? What are you know? And look, I watched
Speaker 1: the news. I have to do for so for my living. Um.
Speaker 1: But Governor Whitmer, she's being held in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, dealing with the shutdown, dealing with these
Speaker 1: arm militias that are storm in the Capitol building, these
Speaker 1: arm white men. Um. But this flint problem, like I
Speaker 1: said at the beginning, has been going on for sixty
Speaker 1: six years that we know about. So let's just say
Speaker 1: that because people been drink and poison water there. But
Speaker 1: it wasn't until you know, six years ago that it
Speaker 1: became a national crisis and national situation. Um, what if
Speaker 1: anything is the state government doing to help the people,
Speaker 1: because wonderful like we you know, I I there's a
Speaker 1: leader of an organization called Color of Change Rashad Robinson,
Speaker 1: and he says that we can we cannot, you know,
Speaker 1: we cannot use charity as a way to get us
Speaker 1: out of systemic problems. Right. You are doing wonderful work
Speaker 1: as a as an incredible philanthropist, as an activist, but
Speaker 1: we can't. We can't goodwill our way out of this. Right,
Speaker 1: this is this is a systemic policy problem. So what
Speaker 1: if anything is the government doing there? You know, I
Speaker 1: asked that very question and very frustrated. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a wonderful Lieutenant governor here named Garland Gilchrist who's a
Speaker 1: brother who I know, and I text him about these
Speaker 1: issues because clearly there's the lack of political will to
Speaker 1: solve this problem is abhorrent and it's and it's evidence
Speaker 1: and it's it exists over two administrations. And part of
Speaker 1: the platform of the campaign platform was look Governor Schnyder,
Speaker 1: look what he did to this community. And then now
Speaker 1: you've been in office long enough to solve it. The
Speaker 1: same problem happened, and let's be very clear, and I
Speaker 1: know we're not you know, and listened, the same problem
Speaker 1: happened with the right to literacy case. Then and I
Speaker 1: don't know if you know much about it, and a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't know about this case, but tell
Speaker 1: me here in Detroit there was a group of young
Speaker 1: African American scholars who were under educated in terms of
Speaker 1: just they filed a brilliant lawsuit all right to literacy.
Speaker 1: I have a right to be taught. Wow, right to
Speaker 1: go to a school that educates me. We have a
Speaker 1: public system, and I went to a system that did
Speaker 1: not do that. The previous administration and other folks fought it.
Speaker 1: It ended up going moving into way through the court system,
Speaker 1: and the governor said, hey, um, you know, I support
Speaker 1: these brothers. I support I support the scholars, but they
Speaker 1: did not settle the case since she's been in office.
Speaker 1: And then finally, because of pressure last week, she said,
Speaker 1: I'm going to settle the case. Problem is she waited
Speaker 1: so long that the Court of Appeals, which we know
Speaker 1: has been act with folks that may not be that supportive,
Speaker 1: have have have picked up the case. So they're gonna
Speaker 1: they're gonna rehear the case that these these young scholars
Speaker 1: won in district federal district court. Because of dragging feet
Speaker 1: on these types of things. So I never want to
Speaker 1: do I don't do comparative harm. Well, I'm not. I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not comparing harm, but I am comparing political will
Speaker 1: in this example I'm about to give in very short order,
Speaker 1: in the state of Michigan, when the horrific acts of
Speaker 1: Larry Nasser at Michigan State gained attention around I believe
Speaker 1: it was thirty two or twenty eight gymnasts or I'm
Speaker 1: not sure the exact number, but it's in around that number.
Speaker 1: Horrible acts that was settled with those gymnasts. I believe
Speaker 1: the number was around five hundred million dollars within a
Speaker 1: matter of I think three months, national attention, a spotlight.
Speaker 1: Obviously there was political will. A city of one hundred
Speaker 1: thousand people that has been poisoned has not gotten a settlement,
Speaker 1: and it is shameful. It's shameful on all of us
Speaker 1: that have allowed it to continue. I look at I
Speaker 1: put myself in there too. I'm not saying, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: everybody else. You know, I'm just as at fault for
Speaker 1: not pushing and and and and sounding the bullhorn hard
Speaker 1: enough and loud enough to create political will. But it
Speaker 1: is a shame. There's no question these people should be
Speaker 1: suffering the way they are, there's no question that there
Speaker 1: shouldn't be some type of remedy already in place. I
Speaker 1: believe we are very close, very close to a settlement.
Speaker 1: But the numbers I've been hearing are abhorrent, abhorrently loved.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me the level of harm? Can you
Speaker 1: give um, give us a snapshot as to why it
Speaker 1: is so difficult to take out these horrific pipes, and
Speaker 1: why that kind of construction infrastructure building has not been underway?
Speaker 1: Or am I wrong? Has it been underway? And it's
Speaker 1: just not it hasn't gotten everywhere yet. But I mean again,
Speaker 1: you bring up very good examples of cases that we
Speaker 1: look at and we say, how did that happen so quickly? Right?
Speaker 1: Why was this expedite it? Why is it six years
Speaker 1: and we haven't seen massive infrastructure development happening to help
Speaker 1: these sick people? Okay, so well, it's obviously it's because
Speaker 1: the people there are poor and are people of color.
Speaker 1: And you know folks that get ignored the most are
Speaker 1: poor people, period, no matter what race. Right, If you
Speaker 1: don't have power, if you don't have the economic ability
Speaker 1: to support candidates and all of those things, you get ignored.
Speaker 1: Now you add on to that issues around race, these
Speaker 1: around justice and all of that. Now there has been
Speaker 1: piecemeal work done. Part of the problem. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you really want to talk about the real, the real
Speaker 1: injustice and the real diabolical issue goes all the way
Speaker 1: back to General Motors. General Motors had a plan in Flint,
Speaker 1: and they were noticing that their engines were corroding. The
Speaker 1: engines that they were building were corroding, and they switched
Speaker 1: water supply. They noticed that after Flint switched the water
Speaker 1: supply to the Flint River, their engine started corroding. They
Speaker 1: were like, we can't have corroding engines we're building, we're
Speaker 1: building parts. So they switched. They got their own water supply.
Speaker 1: But rather than actually notifying the community, rather than actually
Speaker 1: going out there and say, hey, there's a problem, that's
Speaker 1: all they did. And who knows who they told or
Speaker 1: didn't tell. But then, knowing the engine's corroding but not
Speaker 1: the internal organs and systems of huge human beings, it's
Speaker 1: more concerned about the engine than the people. And that
Speaker 1: that's a shame. And clearly so was State and of
Speaker 1: of of Michigan, and clearly many other politicians and whoever's
Speaker 1: so you have all of that leading up, so now
Speaker 1: you have an extreme lack of public trust. So even
Speaker 1: though folks have been told that they've switched back to
Speaker 1: the Detroit River water supply, they still have the same
Speaker 1: pipes in their house, and they know that there was
Speaker 1: corrosion with that other water supply. So just because of
Speaker 1: the different water supply, what makes me trusted? Now? I
Speaker 1: did get a text or I got a text from
Speaker 1: a woman named Ebony whose daughter has exema and the
Speaker 1: water burnts her face. Okay, and her daughter's so, and
Speaker 1: it's a shame you talk about these and you hear
Speaker 1: that whatever all these stories to. Ultimately, the folks in
Speaker 1: Flint don't have zero trust in what they're being told.
Speaker 1: And so independently, you know, we've had some water testing done,
Speaker 1: we're doing what we can, but they have been piecemealing,
Speaker 1: taking up pipes and putting pipes back out. They haven't
Speaker 1: done it in all the houses. Part of the issue
Speaker 1: to me is is for not a huge comparatively amount
Speaker 1: of money. I believe we ran the numbers that around
Speaker 1: seventy million dollars in terms of they could put whole
Speaker 1: house filtration systems in every home, so it would make
Speaker 1: it agnostic to what even the water supplied that was
Speaker 1: coming through the door is. Right, So at least you
Speaker 1: have a filtration system that's attached to your main waterline,
Speaker 1: it's treating and filtering the water that's coming through your
Speaker 1: whole house. And those are the types of things that
Speaker 1: would engender public trust. But again those are the types
Speaker 1: of things that only get done in wealthy community these
Speaker 1: where people have the political power to increase the political will.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm interested to see what's going to happen
Speaker 1: with this settlement as we're tracking the case. The other
Speaker 1: challenge we've been we've been having is getting people to
Speaker 1: sign up, because again it's like those studies where you
Speaker 1: shock a dog and they jump the first time you
Speaker 1: shock them, keep shock them, they keep jumping, But after
Speaker 1: a while you keep abusing them and shocking them and
Speaker 1: they stop jumping. Yeah, in Flint, I've had all these
Speaker 1: town halls and different things saying hey, let's sign up,
Speaker 1: you know, sign up for this lawsuit. The more people
Speaker 1: are signed up, the more sense of message that this
Speaker 1: fund should be bigger. And folks are like why just
Speaker 1: because they I mean at some point in time, right,
Speaker 1: like you're saying, you you just give up, right, And
Speaker 1: it's and it's not, And it's not through the lack
Speaker 1: of trying and the anger and the screaming and the protest,
Speaker 1: and you know the amount of celebrities that come through.
Speaker 1: But at some point in time, right, like I have,
Speaker 1: I am exhausted. I have exhausted every effort that I
Speaker 1: can put forward. And to that extent, hill, how do
Speaker 1: you get other celebrities like yourself, other folks that have
Speaker 1: the platform, have the means, have the bullhorn to be
Speaker 1: consistent with their work in Flint and not just doing
Speaker 1: what the gentleman had told you, popping in for the selfie,
Speaker 1: popping in for the hashtag and then going back to
Speaker 1: their lives. And look, I appreciate you know, any bit
Speaker 1: of time, any bit of effort and money that people
Speaker 1: put in, but we know that consistency, especially in politics
Speaker 1: and policy, is what wins the game. Consistency, right, and
Speaker 1: consistent voice and bullhorn, even if you have to pass
Speaker 1: the baton. It is a relay race, a marathon times
Speaker 1: you know a million, So how do you get people
Speaker 1: to stay involved or come back? What do you do well,
Speaker 1: to be honest, you know, folks need an easy runway
Speaker 1: to do this kind of work. I'll be honest because
Speaker 1: because celebrities are so called celebrities or people with platform,
Speaker 1: they're no different than anybody else. And for the most part,
Speaker 1: most people aren't doing You're like, most people are lazy
Speaker 1: as hell. Well, people doing what they want to do,
Speaker 1: which is take care of themselves and their family and
Speaker 1: out Once those bands start extending outwards, you'll do what
Speaker 1: you can. You'll write a check, or maybe you put
Speaker 1: in a tie, you know, a church, or there's one
Speaker 1: part to care about that's more local or what have you.
Speaker 1: So I never begrudge to anybody for doing anything or
Speaker 1: not doing anything. You know, I never begrudge that. But
Speaker 1: it's not you know, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I encourage people if if my whole thing is what
Speaker 1: makes your heart be faster, If you hear something when
Speaker 1: you read about it, or you hear about it and
Speaker 1: your heart starts to kind of and the hair on
Speaker 1: your back of your neck starts to stick up, that
Speaker 1: means you're passionate about it, and therefore follow that passion
Speaker 1: and do something around it, and then maybe you get
Speaker 1: deeper because it happens organically. The flint. Me getting involved
Speaker 1: with flint happened organically. I didn't go searching out flint
Speaker 1: or a cause around water. It happened because the more
Speaker 1: I started to learn, the more of the hair stood
Speaker 1: up on my back of my neck, and the more
Speaker 1: mested I got. Because you started to see the level
Speaker 1: of injustice and just the level of harm. You know,
Speaker 1: there are people who bought houses for sixty five or
Speaker 1: seventy thousand dollars. Their whole life savings went into that house,
Speaker 1: and now the house toreth five thousand dollars, you know,
Speaker 1: And so there's this old adage where people say it's
Speaker 1: expensive to be poor. These are the people that, you know,
Speaker 1: when when when the rest of America catches a cold,
Speaker 1: they catch the coronavirus, you know, they catch the foot yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, they aren't asymptomatic, you know, carriers. It is.
Speaker 1: So that gets me, and so I can't do it
Speaker 1: all obviously, and people say, well, how come you're not
Speaker 1: over here there? This is I'm doing this And then
Speaker 1: and then I got because of this work. I got
Speaker 1: engaged in Newark because Newark has a lead poisoning problem. Right,
Speaker 1: No one's really talking about it. But the kids in
Speaker 1: New York are experiencing lead poison, okay, you know, And
Speaker 1: that's that's that's a real tricky thing because people are like, hey,
Speaker 1: there's a great African American mayor who has a history
Speaker 1: of being an activist. How are you going to talk
Speaker 1: bad about the Newark situation. It's like, you just got
Speaker 1: to tell the truth, you know. I mean, if the
Speaker 1: kids have lead in their system, doesn't matter who, it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter who. Yeah, you gotta stop it. And so
Speaker 1: the so I think a lot of the activism, least
Speaker 1: for me, happens organically, and I think the same for
Speaker 1: everybody else. But part of it has to be an
Speaker 1: easy entree. So it has to be the first touch
Speaker 1: or the first touch point is like, hey, it's a
Speaker 1: low lift, could you do this? And maybe they get
Speaker 1: engaged and get invited back and they get deep more
Speaker 1: deeper game. Just like what happened me at Flint. I
Speaker 1: got invited to an event that I did not put on.
Speaker 1: I decided to take the time to go because I
Speaker 1: cared about that community and I cared about the issue.
Speaker 1: But then once I got there, I got a little deeper.
Speaker 1: You know, you have been involved in advocacy and activism
Speaker 1: since probably the beginning of your Hollywood career, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it started in college, so for me in college, so
Speaker 1: it just continued. It just became a part of my life.
Speaker 1: So it started college, then in grad school and then
Speaker 1: just continue. And I know that you don't like to
Speaker 1: tell people what they should do, but but do you
Speaker 1: think that it is do you think that there is
Speaker 1: a responsibility specifically for you know, those in Hollywood that
Speaker 1: are people of color, that are black and brown folks
Speaker 1: that have made it to use their platforms to do
Speaker 1: more so then you know, um celebrate and uplift themselves.
Speaker 1: Like do you think you know there is a responsibility
Speaker 1: that is there or it should? It should? This just
Speaker 1: be to each their own. Let me let me Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm of two minds and so and I know I
Speaker 1: know you're gonna be like, well, now I'll choose to
Speaker 1: I'm of two minds. One is I say, follow your heart, right,
Speaker 1: whatever your heart is, follow that. But but saying that,
Speaker 1: I know that if you're even a semi conscious black
Speaker 1: person in America, that your heart is telling you to
Speaker 1: get involved and be and use your platform to make
Speaker 1: some type of change, right, even if you're just even
Speaker 1: relatively aware of the world. You know. That's why when
Speaker 1: you hear you know, and this is related to the
Speaker 1: last dance, when you hear something that's you know, come
Speaker 1: up again because of the documentary, you're Michael Jordan's say,
Speaker 1: even conservatives by shoes. I was not going to get
Speaker 1: involved in Jesse Houns versus Harvey Gant Senate race where
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan could have turned the tide for Harvey Gant
Speaker 1: and to replace Jesse House. He was so popular in
Speaker 1: North Carolina that to have Michael Jordan come out for
Speaker 1: Harvey Ghant and the race was so close it even
Speaker 1: angers me to this day he would have the audacity
Speaker 1: to even defend that choice, because when you talk about
Speaker 1: the power of allowing abject racists to hold office because
Speaker 1: you need to make a little bit more money selling
Speaker 1: one more pair of shoes, shame on you man. That
Speaker 1: it's it's it's not defensible. That's a shame. And and
Speaker 1: Harvey Gatt is somebody that my family has known for years.
Speaker 1: My grandfather had a pharmacy in a small town in
Speaker 1: South Carolina called It was called Piedmont Pharmacy. But the
Speaker 1: town was called Seneca, South Carolina. And I used to
Speaker 1: spend my summers there. It's about four miles from Clemson University.
Speaker 1: And they called him doctor. They called him Doc Hill.
Speaker 1: That's how I got my name, you know. He was
Speaker 1: he was Dockhill, and my mother was Maryland Hill. And
Speaker 1: and I would spend summers there looking popsicles and and
Speaker 1: reading common books in the pharmacy. But Harvey Gamt was
Speaker 1: the first African American to desegregate Clemson. And he was
Speaker 1: called all types of n words and word go home
Speaker 1: signs everywhere. And on the weekends he would come stay
Speaker 1: in my family's place, Doc Hill's place, and became friends
Speaker 1: with my parents and my aunt. And he's somebody who
Speaker 1: has represented a fight good for inclusion and justice his
Speaker 1: entire life. And for you, someone who has a platform
Speaker 1: to not be able to do. And it's a soft lift, man,
Speaker 1: I mean it was, Jessica. It literally it was what
Speaker 1: showing up in hand And yeah, some interviews soft lift
Speaker 1: And you're like, I'm not political, what what? No one's
Speaker 1: asking you to go out and talk about the President
Speaker 1: United This is from North Carolina. This is a one state,
Speaker 1: one center race against two specific people, and you can't
Speaker 1: get involved. So that's part of my point. So I
Speaker 1: agree with you from the standpoint of absolutely there is
Speaker 1: a responsibility. But at the end of the day, I'm
Speaker 1: not telling you what you should be responsible for. But
Speaker 1: if if, if it's if it's clear and cut and
Speaker 1: dry and it's right there in front of your face
Speaker 1: and you don't do anything, then that that's your your
Speaker 1: selfish mf and and that's all you are. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: but that that's you know, and that that's kind of
Speaker 1: my feeling in general, which is that you know, and
Speaker 1: the world has changed a lot. Look, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: tell uh Michael Jordan how he should have acted. Well, no,
Speaker 1: I would have because I you know, again, it was
Speaker 1: about money, right and at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: you know, when you think about like, you're not gonna
Speaker 1: take at all with you, right, Like at that point
Speaker 1: he'd made a lot of money. So what you're gonna
Speaker 1: piss off white people for for what, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: maybe a year or maybe a cycle. They're still gonna
Speaker 1: buy your shoes. Michael Jordan, as great as he is,
Speaker 1: will never be considered the greatest athlete of all time
Speaker 1: like Muhammad Ali become because Muhammad Ali was literally willing
Speaker 1: to sacrifice his years in his entire career for people,
Speaker 1: and Michael Jordan wasn't even willing to sacrifice selling another
Speaker 1: pair of shoes. It wasn't even the choices were you know,
Speaker 1: Muhammad Ali lost three years of his prime literally because
Speaker 1: he took a stance he would not allow himself to
Speaker 1: go shoot uh some Asian folks who never called him
Speaker 1: the N word, you know as he put it. So
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a shame, you know, for that.
Speaker 1: I don't want to get bogged out on that because no,
Speaker 1: I mean no, no, no, but I down the more
Speaker 1: becomes a distraction. To be a distraction, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't think is I want people to do what's in
Speaker 1: their heart. Yes, and and and if if what's really
Speaker 1: really really in your heart, I need to sell another
Speaker 1: pair of sneakers, then that's just you just got to
Speaker 1: lick yourself in the mirror and say, really, how did
Speaker 1: that mentality come in? You know, It's like if you
Speaker 1: told me, like I don't want to miss a game,
Speaker 1: like that's I'm a basketball player. I don't want to
Speaker 1: miss a game to go do a rally. I got you.
Speaker 1: That's that's what you do for a living. Don't miss
Speaker 1: a game. But this is sounds sneakers is the reason
Speaker 1: you justify, you know, and and to your point, how
Speaker 1: much money do you need at the end of the day?
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, you know, honestly, at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, who's the bigger you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Colin Kaepernick, you know, is arguably a bigger name now
Speaker 1: that he's act then he was then honestly than he
Speaker 1: was when he was gone. Yeah exactly. Yeah. Um, So
Speaker 1: before I let you go to questions, Uh, one, you
Speaker 1: have letters to a young brother, manifest your destiny. Um,
Speaker 1: tell us a bit about that book and specifically now too,
Speaker 1: because you know, trying to manifest anything right in again
Speaker 1: in the midst of a global pandemic. We you know,
Speaker 1: these young people that are supposed to be graduating heading
Speaker 1: out into the world. You know, we're for the first time,
Speaker 1: we are not leaving a world that is great for
Speaker 1: young people to be inhabiting, right um, uh, to be
Speaker 1: taking over. We're leaving them with climate change, We're leaving
Speaker 1: them with a wider racial wealth gap. We're leading, leaving
Speaker 1: them with a broken healthcare system, broken education system. So
Speaker 1: just talk a bit um about that book. Everybody feel better.
Speaker 1: I'm just honest. That's what I right, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: That's why it's it's it's it's it's you have to
Speaker 1: laugh sometimes, because if you really don't in your years,
Speaker 1: Oh I'll just cry all day. Yeah, there's that meme
Speaker 1: or whatever it is where they have I don't have
Speaker 1: you ever seen it, but it just makes me chuckle.
Speaker 1: Kermit the frog is talking to a little girl and
Speaker 1: she says, oh, you're a cookie monster, and then he
Speaker 1: cut to him throwing himself off a building. I've worked
Speaker 1: my whole life. I'm Kermit, you know. And you also
Speaker 1: saw me cookie, you know. So you gotta just the
Speaker 1: safe they got, vitel, whatever it is. We we have
Speaker 1: all these ills, but the beautiful thing is we still
Speaker 1: have breath in our body and life and ability to think,
Speaker 1: and we can do this together, y'all. I truly believe that.
Speaker 1: I really believe that as people get more conscious and
Speaker 1: more enlightened about their power, understanding their power, we are
Speaker 1: we are powerful together. But but there have been forces
Speaker 1: at Bay and social media and technology has been used
Speaker 1: just like propaganda back in the day, to divide people,
Speaker 1: to divide us and make us think that our interests
Speaker 1: are are different. It's not true. And so we have
Speaker 1: to do more. We work together, and and and and
Speaker 1: and really work hard together, we can solve many of
Speaker 1: those problems you just talked about. That is my That
Speaker 1: is my hope. That is my hope. So the final
Speaker 1: question that I always ask people that join PM mood
Speaker 1: is this, how do you get in the mood to
Speaker 1: change the world. I breathe, I read, I opened my ears,
Speaker 1: and listen to the people who actually number one already
Speaker 1: know the answers. We don't have to go into any
Speaker 1: community and solve a problem for somebody. They already know
Speaker 1: the answers in their community. We just have to listen
Speaker 1: and then help them get the leverage or power that
Speaker 1: they need to get the resources to implement the solutions.
Speaker 1: So and then I have to energize. So breathe, suld center, read,
Speaker 1: educate and understand, listen to the people, and then get
Speaker 1: the energy required to make a change. The reason why
Speaker 1: I always reference physics is that I truly believed when
Speaker 1: you talk about physics that you know, the only way
Speaker 1: to move a mass that is stuck or in stasis
Speaker 1: is with an equal or greater amount of energy to
Speaker 1: the mass. Right. If we're talking about solving big problems,
Speaker 1: we need big energy to do it. And and and
Speaker 1: I'll say this quite honestly, and and and and somewhat sadly,
Speaker 1: is that the people who have completely antithetical values to
Speaker 1: myself have out energized most of us. They talk louder, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they they out energy you. They lie more, tall, louder,
Speaker 1: and bully you and push you around. And we have
Speaker 1: let it happen. We've allowed it to happen, and we've
Speaker 1: tried to come no, let's just be conciliatory. We had
Speaker 1: eight years of conciliatory behavior in sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue
Speaker 1: and basically everything that's that was passed during that time
Speaker 1: is gone. Yeah, that's a deep and judges are gone.
Speaker 1: They they they have out energy, out of energy. Um,
Speaker 1: good people, and it's time for those of us that
Speaker 1: I did a talk at at a retreat called Mind
Speaker 1: Body Green, called Revitalized, where I called it now my
Speaker 1: stay m F. I won't say it on here, but
Speaker 1: now I'm a stay you can. I'm gonna stay, motherfucker.
Speaker 1: And and that's what the title of speech was. I said,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of us walking around saying,
Speaker 1: now my stay going to yoga class. Oh yes, I
Speaker 1: blessed the God, and you be spiritual, be strong. But
Speaker 1: while someone else is just like Malcolm said, put that
Speaker 1: knife in your back nine inches. If they pull it
Speaker 1: out three that's that's not progress. So it's time to
Speaker 1: I don't mind the now my stay because that centers you.
Speaker 1: I need to breathe, and we need to let people's
Speaker 1: blood pressure come down what they need to be healthy.
Speaker 1: So and the Noma stay is great. But after you
Speaker 1: don't then my stay get up and say hmm no, no,
Speaker 1: this ain't gonna work. We're gonna do it this. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna let you, you know, punch me in the
Speaker 1: face right, left and center. Just like you mentioned that
Speaker 1: the Governor's legislative, you got people showing up there with gums,
Speaker 1: being aggressive, chasing down reporters, you know, coughing on people,
Speaker 1: doing all these aggressive things. All that is, if you
Speaker 1: want to boil down, is energy. Energy, and I'm not
Speaker 1: saying it's energy directed in a very certain aggressive type
Speaker 1: of way. I'm saying, you don't have to be that
Speaker 1: type of energy, but you have to match that level
Speaker 1: of energy. Yes, you know you say that, and I'll
Speaker 1: just say this, you know, is that when Michelle Obama
Speaker 1: said when they go low, we go high. My feeling,
Speaker 1: you know, was more on the Eric Holder side. When
Speaker 1: they go low, kick them in the knees, like when
Speaker 1: they you know what I'm saying, like, you can't. You know,
Speaker 1: you cannot rationalize the behavior that we've been seeing exhibited
Speaker 1: over the last three and a half years. You cannot
Speaker 1: rationalize it. You can't ignore it. But you have to
Speaker 1: match it. To your point, you have to match energy
Speaker 1: with energy because the belief that we have that this
Speaker 1: is all just going to go away, right, it isn't right.
Speaker 1: And so you know what we do now to dig
Speaker 1: in and to restore and to reenergize is really going
Speaker 1: to be what makes what makes our future or breaks up.
Speaker 1: And to your point, this has been going on a
Speaker 1: long time. This is the organization around putting the mechanisms
Speaker 1: in place of what we're seeing right now has been
Speaker 1: going on a long time. There was a guy that
Speaker 1: I was in Harvard Law School with who I'm not
Speaker 1: going to say his name, but he would go away
Speaker 1: to these conservative I always had arguments with him in
Speaker 1: class over policy and all sorts of things, and he
Speaker 1: would always go away. But we were, you know, outside,
Speaker 1: we were cordial and he would ob would say, man,
Speaker 1: where you going to say, oh, man, I got a meeting,
Speaker 1: And he'd be going to these meetings in Boston with
Speaker 1: different think tank groups literally plotting how they're going to
Speaker 1: Jerrymander eight overt State House, Ye legislature. I mean, this
Speaker 1: sup court system didn't happen like magical. This has been
Speaker 1: energized planning a blueprint and then also certain things the
Speaker 1: use of technology that they didn't even anticipate before to
Speaker 1: to to actually heighten the your ability to spread message
Speaker 1: and get in galvanized support, so through lies, through mis
Speaker 1: misinformation and all those things. So we have to match.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be the exact same way, but
Speaker 1: they have to match the energy and the amplification. Hill Harper,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, Thank you so much for the
Speaker 1: work that you do. Thank you so much for joining
Speaker 1: me on PM mood Um and I hope that you
Speaker 1: can continue to keep up your energy because we need
Speaker 1: your passion, your grace, um and your work to continue.
Speaker 1: So thank you. I'm not going to stop, Please don't.
Speaker 1: I keep doing shows like these discussions is so important.
Speaker 1: I believe in it. It's what I can do, and
Speaker 1: it's what I do do, so I will continue. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much. Stay safe out there, all right, thanks
Speaker 1: so much. Thanks for listening to this week's PM Mood.
Speaker 1: My political podcast, woke AF Daily is on Patreon for
Speaker 1: just five dollars a month. That's five new hour long
Speaker 1: shows every week for just five dollars a month. Join
Speaker 1: the conversation now at patreon dot com slash woke AF
Speaker 1: and you can continue listening to PM Mood every week
Speaker 1: absolutely free. Now more than ever, we see the importance
Speaker 1: of independent media, so thank you for your support, and
Speaker 1: as always, stay in the PM mood to change the world.