WEBVTT - Mountains of Evidence 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:06.000 New details into what was uncovered at the gruesome crime 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:10.840 scenes in Pike County. The prosecutors began their painstaking process 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:14.360 of walking through every single piece of evidence, focusing on 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.960 that first home owned by Chris Roden Senior. When you've 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:20.759 got to make it through eight homicide, your dan ryot 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.400 is going to take a long time. Because each one 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:27.600 of those people count each person had a life. This 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:30.040 has to be one of the most horrific things, if 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:38.440 not the most horrific knight of this person's life. This 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:42.800 is the piked and massacre returned to Pike County season four, 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:50.479 episode six, Mountains of Evidence. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.320 producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Laidecker and Jeff Shane. 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.640 Thus far, George Wagner, the first child, has been both 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:03.600 mundane and shocking. It's important to note that George Wagner, 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.880 the fourth currently on trial, has pleaded not guilty and 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:12.399 has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.880 whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:20.920 all charges. The prosecution is making its case methodically, with 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:25.360 hours of testimony occasionally punctuated with gruesome new details of 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:29.400 the night in question. The defense has been mostly quiet, 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:33.360 seemingly waiting for Angie Kanappa and her team to present anything. 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:40.040 Dying George Wagner to the crime safely college. Next witness, 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:45.680 shall please raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:47.800 or affirm that the testimony you were about to get 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:49.680 shall be the truth, the whole truth? And I think 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:52.120 that's the truth that you shall answer unto God. Yes 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:56.360 I did. Shane Henshaw was one of the lead agents 0:01:56.400 --> 0:02:01.680 for the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigations or CBI. He 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:04.960 arrived unseen hours after the bodies of Chris Roden Senior 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:09.160 and his cousin Gary Rodin were discovered. This morning, Andrew 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:13.000 Wilson is asking the questions for the prosecution. Let's talk 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:17.960 a little bit about your background or your employment history, 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:21.200 taking you up to your current employment. So when did 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:23.720 you start out in law of force. I was basically 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:29.520 commissioned as a peace officer in nineteen ninety. The first 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:34.920 fifteen minutes of testimony highlight Hanshaw's qualifications. He has years 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:39.200 of training and crime scene reconstruction, ballistics and blood spatter analysis. 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:44.000 When I first arrived at saying you can see here 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:47.880 that there's a lot of buildings, there's a lot, there's 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.560 a lot of things that are primary focus of that. 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.359 The prosecution displays a large photo of Chris Roden, Senior's 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:02.119 property agent Henshaw point out the front yard. A tow 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:05.200 truck sits outside the home Christina lived in where Gary 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.960 was staying that night. There's an eighteen wheeler trailer and 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:13.360 an eighty sedan with the front half missing. Henshaw began 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:17.080 his investigation on the lawn itself. As part of your 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:18.880 work in this case, did you pluck the mountain dew 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.960 can it's depicted that picture. Yes, I did. In addition 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:25.680 to that mountain dew can, did you find a couple 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:29.280 other items out front of boards or seven seven union 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:33.359 hered Yes, sir. Once again, you see my plaquard number two, 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:37.760 the scale plaquard, and you see a cigarette butt or 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:42.520 a partial cigarette. But there when it comes to testifying, 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:46.840 it's clear Handshaw as well practiced. He listens intently to 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.080 every question, then turns deliberately to address the jury face 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.560 to face. As part of your work in this case, 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.400 did you collect that cigarette butt? Yes, sir, I did. 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:00.720 From everything that I've seen, and heard did an excellent 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.800 job with it. No question about any of the avidacee 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.880 thatd been not propered by the state, and I think 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:11.960 that's a large part because of BCI's professionalism. The Mountain 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.680 dew can and cigarette butts contained traces of Gary Rowden's DNA. 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.320 Next Handshawn Fortnan moved on to the exterior of the trailer. 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.039 Tell us what stood out to you when you did 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.320 that initial look. I noticed that there were multiple bullet 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.479 holes in the front of the house. There were six 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.760 bullet holes in a line moving progressively closer to the door. 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:35.920 You notice the screen door had bullet holes, but the 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.600 front door did not. Was that correct? Yeah, I've seen that. 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:40.840 That led me to believe that the front door was 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:43.480 most likely open when the blood lighting event had occurred 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.600 on the evening of April twenty first, twenty sixteen, it 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:51.200 was clear and breezy and piked in temperatures win the 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.600 low seventies until about seven pm, when the wind picked up, 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:58.760 dropping the temperature to the high fifties. The open door 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:01.800 likely provided Chris and Gary with some welcomed fresh air. 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.840 Stephanie and I talk about some of the photographs shown 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:10.600 in trial and the details they revealed. We've heard a 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:14.279 lot of reports over the years that Chris Senior, Frankie Rodin, 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:19.040 and even Chris Jor Rodin worked at Big Bear Lake 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:23.080 at various times. They operated big equipment. We know that 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.120 Chris Sior was said to be building patios in and 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.839 around the area, but we've never been able to substantiate 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:36.200 those claims, essentially until now. Gary Roden, Chris Senior, Roden's cousin, 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.240 also worked at Big Bear Lake, specifically when he was 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:43.480 staying with Chris Rodin, which he did on occasion, and 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.159 this was one of the times that he was staying there, 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.320 you know, working just to make a living. Looking at 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.720 the crime scene photos, we can see the clothing that 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:55.960 Chris Senior was wearing when he was murdered, and he's 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.920 literally wearing a hooded sweatshirt that says Big Bear Lake 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:04.880 on it. The question as to whether Chris and Gary 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.560 road and knew their attackers or whether they were taken 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:14.479 by surprise still remains. Here's forensic medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:20.360 They had to neutralize Chris Senior and Gary the positions 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.520 that they occupied in the family. Chris was known not 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.279 to back down. If they did not neutralize them, if 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:28.440 they just say, grazed him in some way and he 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.000 was able to retreat, or Gary was able to retreat, 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.040 access to phones, or maybe he had an ability to 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.400 get out of that trailer, they could blow the whole 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.520 show them way, because the next thing you know, Dana 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:45.560 is aware of what's about to happen, Hannah is aware, 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.920 and her trailer were what's going to happen. They couldn't 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.120 run the risk of allowing one of these people to 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.080 get to jump on them or to alert anybody else. 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:55.839 So I think that that's why they went to Chris's 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.480 house first and neutralize Chris Senior and Gary. At the 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:07.719 same time, Prosecuting Attorney Wilson brings up photos of clean 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:11.800 exit holes on the interior wall of the trailer. There 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:15.040 are torn bits of woods circling the holes. What does 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:19.320 that indicate to you? It indicates directionality. First of all, 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:24.960 that whatever object calls that would have appeared to be 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.720 coming from the outside end, because this is on the inside, 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.920 or every bullet will be tract had characteristics and appeared 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.320 to come from the front of the residence toward the 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:41.320 residence and then away from the residence. And again, will 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:50.840 these consistent with path through type shots. Yes, sir, some 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.480 of the bullets went clean through the trailer and out 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:58.440 through the opposite wall. Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan, Well, 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.880 first off, you're talking about a mobile home, which is 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:06.840 obviously not the most robust structure. Anyway, You've got a 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:09.640 projectile that is traveling out of the end of that muzzle, 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.600 and it is supersonic. That means that with a hop 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.679 powered rifle, it is actually traveling faster than speed of sound. 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.640 That little paper thin wall within a mobile home is 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.200 not going to stop one of these high velocity rounds. 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:28.679 It's going to travel through till it strikes another area 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.680 or a person that it would have sufficiently slowed it down, 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.199 and so it would have been I think a moment 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:42.360 of total chaos and confusion. One photo shows an exit 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:46.079 hole right next to walart that says, quote love less Forever. 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.080 The jury has shown a diagram of where bullet shards 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.640 were found inside the trailer. There are two on the 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.199 front porch and a bunch around the chair. In Chris 0:08:56.240 --> 0:09:01.280 Senior's living room, a bullet is waged a stereo speaker 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:05.040 as well. In addition to that projectile that you just 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.360 identified from inside the wall, there were there are other 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:12.520 projectiles in different areas of that living room. Yes, okay, 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.280 there's a stack of tan pouches and boxes in front 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:20.040 of Agent Handshaw. At this point, George Wagner fiddles with 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:25.520 his goatee. His defense attorney checks his watch. Every bullet 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.480 chart that was collected is painstakingly taken out of its 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:32.600 corresponding envelope and confirmed by Hanshaw as evidence he bagged 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:38.439 six years ago. Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter in 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:42.640 Cincinnati now with Local twelve, followed by Joseph Scott Morgan. 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:45.880 I mean a lot of us in the media and 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:50.600 in the Lake community laming not lawyers are like, why 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:52.400 can't they speed this up? Why are they going through 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.240 every showcase. I think they're trying to cut the defense 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.400 off at the knees as much as possible to say, 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:01.600 we exhausted every avenue and came up with this conclusion. 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.480 And we looked at every cigarette butt, and we looked 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.280 at every DNA sample, and we did everything we could. 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.760 You know, we live in a faster world people. I 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:18.679 think it even extends out to courtroom. They want things 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:24.200 delivered to them immediately, and sometimes it takes longer to prepare. 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:28.040 It certainly takes much longer to make your way through it, 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:30.440 and that's the case with us. We're talking about eight 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:38.920 dead bodies here, eight in four different locations. Was there 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.559 any evidence that you saw with your eyes based on 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:44.120 your knowledge, your training, your experience, that led you to 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:48.960 believe that any shots had originated from inside of that trailer. 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:53.319 Going outside of that trailer, I found nothing at all 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:57.400 that would indicate that any shots were fired from within 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:02.360 the house. Going out of the house, my opinion was 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:06.240 that the shots did occur from outside. I felt that 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:13.520 they were from the front yard area. Agent Todd Partner 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:15.640 was brought in to use what is called a Pharaoh 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:20.040 three D scanner of the entire crime scene, including the exterior. 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:29.520 Here again Joseph Scott Morgan with the Farrow technology. It 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.160 is a laser that is set up and it's kind 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.959 of hard to describe if folks have not seen one. 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:39.880 It sits on a tripod and it is a can 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.679 to something that you would see along the side of 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.560 the roadway. If you've ever seen an individual doing surveying, 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:51.480 only the scene is automated, and you have the lasers 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:55.679 that are being essentially blasted out at one portion of 0:11:55.760 --> 0:12:00.439 the unit, and the unit itself is spinning around as 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.400 these lasers are kind of firing off in every different direction. 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:09.760 The laser is shooting over ten million different points as 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:15.000 it spins around, and you can capture height, depth, width, 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:17.880 all of those things that we could normally do with 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:21.880 a regular SLR punement scene. So it really breeds life 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.240 into this when you're taking a look at it. And 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.720 so when the jury members see this in that courtroom 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.800 in Pike County, Ohio for just a few moments, they're 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:40.800 transported back in time. Walk us through, what do you 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.480 remember about scanning that scene. We did one scame from 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.880 outside out front where you could see kind of the 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:52.480 whole front yard. There were bullet holes in the front 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:56.800 of the trailer that subsequently we placed trajectory rods in 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:01.000 and to measure those we place years on those rods 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.920 that then the scanner can pick up to measure our angles. 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.319 Trajectory rods are poked through bullet holes, giving investigators a 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:12.599 general idea of the path of the bullet as it 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:16.920 passed through a surface. He pulls a three D model 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.559 of the entire yard with long lines running into the 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:23.959 front yard. Based on the angular measurement data. We take 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.280 the horizontal angle the vertical angle, and this is just 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.480 a line drawn between those two spheres, a straight line 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:34.280 that then can be extrapolated back to a possible origin 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.520 of those shots. Based on the data that the Farrow 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:41.000 scan was telling you, was it believed that those shots 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.920 that went through that front door came somewhere from the 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:47.440 area just behind that bushold They point to a spot 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:49.720 in the ground about twenty feet from the front door 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.360 on the front lawn. What we do know is there 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.120 are strikes in the front of the porch, so it 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.320 had to be at least there, and where the trajectory 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:03.839 lines end on the groundswood couldn't be Joseph Scott Morgan. 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.200 These rounds appear to be going from below to above, 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.480 so they're rising up essentially from the ground. More than 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.000 likely they would be in a kneeling position. I think 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:15.839 folks would ask, well, why would you be in a 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.040 kneeling position to do that? Well, you would want to 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:24.200 try to secure your person as solidly as you possibly 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.880 can because the recoil and with this particular weapon. There 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.840 is a tremendous amount of recoil because this is such 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.240 a robust round. You're going to feel it from the 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.960 moment you engage that trigger until that energy transfers through 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:43.920 the bud of that weapon and into your shoulder. Here's Stephanie. 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:50.600 We've also heard reports that Senior was expecting Billy Wagner, 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.160 the accused dad, that night. They were apparently going to 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.240 have an important conversation. So what does that mean? Does 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.560 that mean that Billy went up to the door and 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.280 knocked on it and Chris answered, Could it be that 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:07.160 they were just surprised? Does the idea of there being 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:12.120 a person kneeling in wait outside of Christinior's home in 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:16.840 the dark near the woods is such a terrifying thought. 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:21.320 But we still don't know who that person is, which 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:26.560 one wasn't. We're going to take a break. We'll be 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:36.760 back in a moment. At this point, testimony moves to 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:40.880 the inside of the home. In the galley, members of 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:44.640 the Rodent, Gilly, and Manly families prepare themselves for another 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:51.440 day of horrific photos. Geneva, Chris Senior's mother, sits stoically 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:55.000 in the courtroom. Her daughter hands her a tissue, even 0:15:55.040 --> 0:16:00.760 though she isn't crying yet. I'll talk about blood or 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:04.480 biological evidence at this scene, they start with the pools 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:06.680 of blood and an around a recliner in the living 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.080 room inside the front door. Just from what we saw, 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.520 it's obvious that you can see what you could consider 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.640 to be origins or a place that a person was 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:21.320 in when the blood lighting event occurred. Did you take 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:25.560 some swabs of the blood in front of that chair, Yes, sir, 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:30.240 I did. Handshaw meticulously documented shoeprints in the dried blood 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.120 in and around the area as well. Is it more 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:38.120 likely for a shoeprint to be tracked or picked up 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.000 in blood when that blood is wet or fresh as 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:46.000 opposed to dry and pool Absolutely. Yes. You said when 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.040 you very first observed these footprints, they were already dry 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.000 in the blood. Is that correct? Yes, they were. So 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:55.920 you talk about preserving it, documenting it. How do you 0:16:56.040 --> 0:17:00.200 go through actually photographing it and then ultimately collecting any 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.040 shoe runs in this scene? Yes, they we're all photographed 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.639 and documented as they were as they were when they 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:10.159 were found. And when you talk about detail, what's standing 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.200 out to you where you're like, Oh, they may be 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.240 able to do something with this. What's actually standing out 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.480 to me at that particular time was the fact that 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:23.760 can I stand again, please, in this area of the shoe, 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.920 I'm not seeing any kind of wear pattern at all. 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:32.119 That meant something to me. The supernt evidence could not 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.280 be shown to anyone outside the courtroom because Judge Steering 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.359 ordered media not to show any photos that included blood. 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:44.080 Sitting through this testimony, victims families are of course emotional. 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:47.879 One family member looks down, not wanting to see what 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:53.280 comes next. Here again, James Filcher don't want to shock 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:56.439 the jury, but they also don't want to offend the family. 0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:00.440 There's been some serious tension between the media and the 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.600 family and the prosecution that's borne out on some of 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:05.600 these motions and some of these other things that we're 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.639 seeing because we think everything should be shown. I mean, 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:13.760 blood is blood. They're bloody crime scenes. This is what happened. 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.399 You got to know how these people died. You got 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:18.440 to see it. I mean, it's part of a murder trial. 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:24.720 And there's eight victims, all shot multiple times, so it's 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:30.840 part of the deal. In this same area of the 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.200 living room, you identify that as being on the floor. 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.840 Did you also find what appeared to be blood splatter 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:41.600 on the wall? Yes, we did. Is there anything that 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.600 sticks out to yether with respect any directionality of that 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.320 blood or anything like that. First of all, there's a 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:51.840 lot of blood stains on this wall, and in my 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:56.160 training that all of these stains from what I see 0:18:56.240 --> 0:19:00.680 are descending stains, which means they are traveling down when 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:07.080 they struck this wall. Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan, that 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.320 is an indication of a lot of anger, because you 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.920 would think that anybody that was familiar enough with firearms 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:19.159 that would show up into some counenvironment would also know 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:23.080 what kind of forces being brought there. With just one shot, 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.440 you should be able to recognize that you don't really 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:29.720 need that many. But for some reason, the perpetrator found 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:34.840 it necessary to lay into Chris Senior, specifically to make 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:38.840 sure that he was totally completely eradicated that he would 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:44.200 not rise again. How did you take that swab? Where'd 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.920 you submitted to and was that eventually submitted to the 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.960 lab for DNA testing? I believe that eventually it was 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:54.399 submitted for DNA testing to determine actually which victim's blood. 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:58.439 This was the swabs from the staining contained in that exhibit. 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:02.400 The living room of four zero seven seven Unionville Road, 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:07.760 also depicted in photo ID number eighteen, tested positive for 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:11.399 blood and the DNA profile of the blood from this 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:17.359 swab contains Chris Rodent Senior's DNA. One family member barries 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:21.000 are facing their hands, another covers her mouth and whips 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:24.960 of tears. If Chris Senior was still alive lying on 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.320 the floor at the next bit of evidence may explain 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:30.360 what happened in the last moments of his life. As 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:34.760 you were doing your examination of this area, did you 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:39.680 also find a projectile strike in the floor by that 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.920 rocker recliment, Yes, sir, It was quite some time later 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:46.800 before I felt that we were at a point in 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.399 our processing and our investigation that I was able to 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:54.760 move that chair. When we did move the chair, that's 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:57.359 when it was we noticed that there was a bullet 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:00.520 hole or suspected bullet hole in the floor right next 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:03.320 to the chair. It appeared that it was going from 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:07.640 above down. We knew that it came from inside going 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:10.560 down toward the floor, and assumed that it may have 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:16.080 exited under the mobile home. Todd Fortner explains further, and 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:21.160 at some point, did you actually use rods to try 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:23.840 to determine the angle that that bullet may have gone 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:27.080 through that floor? Yes, it's a fairly steep downward angle, 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:31.080 so the muzzle of the weapon was fairly close. A 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.720 second hole was found here, and the rod then will 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:37.280 extend downward through that hole. And did you find again 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:40.560 that second hole to be in line or in trajectory 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.640 with that first hole that you expect the riding Yes. 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:47.359 Were you able to track that hole through that joice 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:50.280 beneath that trailer, yes, we were able to track it 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:54.240 down into the ground. At that point, another agent, Durst, 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:56.800 crawled under the trailer and recovered one of the bullets. 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:02.480 What did you notice about that projectile? What it was 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:06.159 a hollow point. Appeared to be a pistol projectile that 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.160 had not expanded. Basically, the way a hollow point bullet 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:13.680 works is a softer substance. Human tissue is designed to 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:17.880 go in and expand those metal pedals out in order 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:25.920 to create a larger wound track. Joseph Scott Morgan. Most 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.959 people when they think of a bullet projectile, they'll think 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:31.480 of will refer to as a ball ammunition that's a 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:34.040 bullet that kind of has a rounded nose on it. 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:36.440 That's kind of the traditional image that you think about. 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:40.760 So if you have a forty caliber round that's being 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:44.160 fired out of a weapon, forty caliber is pretty much 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:48.040 what you're going to get with ball ammunition that can 0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:51.440 deform and all those sorts of things, But the diameter 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:55.120 of a round is not going to change that much. However, 0:22:56.119 --> 0:23:00.640 when you start talking about a hollow point, what happens 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:04.439 is that once that round passes out of the end 0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:07.760 of the muzzle and it winds up on its targeted area, 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:11.200 these little the only way I can really describe it, 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:15.200 are these little wings essentially kind of deploy. You have 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:20.200 a forty caliber round that suddenly deploys out upwards a 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:27.080 forty five caliber. Fortner explains why the bullets they found 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:32.960 didn't deploy. If it hits something hard for instance, would concrete, 0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:37.320 potentially even bone, before hitting enough of a quantity of 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:42.240 soft tissue to expand, it will basically just dent the 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:43.840 front of it and it will keep going and it 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:47.119 will basically become a non hollow point projectile. Of the 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:55.120 training experience that I didn't hit like soft tissue. Yes, 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:00.359 the bullets themselves kind of speak to you. As a 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:05.640 Cromp scene investigator. I do recall something where the actual 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:12.840 sequencing of the gunfire tells a story this vividly because 0:24:13.160 --> 0:24:16.800 you get an idea of when this horror is just 0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:22.399 visited upon Chris Senior along with Gary, there's an awareness, 0:24:22.680 --> 0:24:25.720 I think you know that the world is kind of 0:24:25.800 --> 0:24:31.320 blown apart inside of this home. His arm was mangled, 0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:35.159 and so he's writhing in pain on the floor, and 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:38.159 then you see these other rounds that come from another 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:41.000 weapon and they pump them into his body. His life 0:24:41.040 --> 0:24:45.600 andrew right there on the floor. Sadly, it seems Gary 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:50.399 Roden suffered a similarly terrifying end. Agent Henshaw found his 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:54.480 glasses and baseball cap nearby in the kitchen. Hanshaw opens 0:24:54.520 --> 0:24:59.040 another envelope and pulls out Gary Roden's bloodstained hat. As 0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:04.600 you examine that hole or perforation from the outside, did 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:10.560 you notice any blowout or any frame of that hole 0:25:10.680 --> 0:25:13.560 on the back there that indicated that it was an 0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:18.240 exit wound as opposed to an entrance hole. Appeared to 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:22.800 be what I initially thought it could be. Okay, let 0:25:22.840 --> 0:25:25.880 me ask you this at some point. Did you later 0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:30.840 learn that when that idol is being examined, a possible 0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:34.160 piece of a projectile fell out of it? Yes? Were 0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:37.280 you able to look at that hat and possibly track 0:25:37.359 --> 0:25:40.320 where that bullet had actually come out at the front 0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:44.159 of the hat. At this point, George Wagner's face reddens 0:25:44.240 --> 0:25:47.359 and he clenches his jaw. And again, does it appear 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:51.160 that that area that hat has been pulled or torn 0:25:51.280 --> 0:25:54.760 or ripped away from the hat? The bill area there? Yes? 0:25:54.840 --> 0:26:01.600 Sor it does here again? And instigative reporter James Pilcher, 0:26:01.840 --> 0:26:06.400 followed by medical forensics examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. Somebody shot 0:26:06.480 --> 0:26:08.159 Gary rode it in the back of the head. The 0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:11.360 bullet went through his head and then knocked his cap off, 0:26:11.440 --> 0:26:13.880 and the bullet lodged in the bill of his cap. 0:26:16.000 --> 0:26:18.880 Once hell begins to rain down, you know where all 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:23.600 of this is occurring. The door bust open. How did 0:26:23.680 --> 0:26:27.280 he react at that moment? Top? Was he in total shock? 0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:29.520 Did he have an awareness? Did he know that Chris 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:33.159 Senior screamed out as his arm was kind of blown apart? 0:26:34.240 --> 0:26:38.000 Did he rush to his side? And we don't really 0:26:38.200 --> 0:26:40.639 know that part, but in my mind I'll imagine that, 0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:45.800