Speaker 1: New details into what was uncovered at the gruesome crime
Speaker 1: scenes in Pike County. The prosecutors began their painstaking process
Speaker 1: of walking through every single piece of evidence, focusing on
Speaker 1: that first home owned by Chris Roden Senior. When you've
Speaker 1: got to make it through eight homicide, your dan ryot
Speaker 1: is going to take a long time. Because each one
Speaker 1: of those people count each person had a life. This
Speaker 1: has to be one of the most horrific things, if
Speaker 1: not the most horrific knight of this person's life. This
Speaker 1: is the piked and massacre returned to Pike County season four,
Speaker 1: episode six, Mountains of Evidence. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television
Speaker 1: producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Laidecker and Jeff Shane.
Speaker 1: Thus far, George Wagner, the first child, has been both
Speaker 1: mundane and shocking. It's important to note that George Wagner,
Speaker 1: the fourth currently on trial, has pleaded not guilty and
Speaker 1: has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner,
Speaker 1: whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to
Speaker 1: all charges. The prosecution is making its case methodically, with
Speaker 1: hours of testimony occasionally punctuated with gruesome new details of
Speaker 1: the night in question. The defense has been mostly quiet,
Speaker 1: seemingly waiting for Angie Kanappa and her team to present anything.
Speaker 1: Dying George Wagner to the crime safely college. Next witness,
Speaker 1: shall please raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear
Speaker 1: or affirm that the testimony you were about to get
Speaker 1: shall be the truth, the whole truth? And I think
Speaker 1: that's the truth that you shall answer unto God. Yes
Speaker 1: I did. Shane Henshaw was one of the lead agents
Speaker 1: for the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigations or CBI. He
Speaker 1: arrived unseen hours after the bodies of Chris Roden Senior
Speaker 1: and his cousin Gary Rodin were discovered. This morning, Andrew
Speaker 1: Wilson is asking the questions for the prosecution. Let's talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about your background or your employment history,
Speaker 1: taking you up to your current employment. So when did
Speaker 1: you start out in law of force. I was basically
Speaker 1: commissioned as a peace officer in nineteen ninety. The first
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes of testimony highlight Hanshaw's qualifications. He has years
Speaker 1: of training and crime scene reconstruction, ballistics and blood spatter analysis.
Speaker 1: When I first arrived at saying you can see here
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of buildings, there's a lot, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of things that are primary focus of that.
Speaker 1: The prosecution displays a large photo of Chris Roden, Senior's
Speaker 1: property agent Henshaw point out the front yard. A tow
Speaker 1: truck sits outside the home Christina lived in where Gary
Speaker 1: was staying that night. There's an eighteen wheeler trailer and
Speaker 1: an eighty sedan with the front half missing. Henshaw began
Speaker 1: his investigation on the lawn itself. As part of your
Speaker 1: work in this case, did you pluck the mountain dew
Speaker 1: can it's depicted that picture. Yes, I did. In addition
Speaker 1: to that mountain dew can, did you find a couple
Speaker 1: other items out front of boards or seven seven union
Speaker 1: hered Yes, sir. Once again, you see my plaquard number two,
Speaker 1: the scale plaquard, and you see a cigarette butt or
Speaker 1: a partial cigarette. But there when it comes to testifying,
Speaker 1: it's clear Handshaw as well practiced. He listens intently to
Speaker 1: every question, then turns deliberately to address the jury face
Speaker 1: to face. As part of your work in this case,
Speaker 1: did you collect that cigarette butt? Yes, sir, I did.
Speaker 1: From everything that I've seen, and heard did an excellent
Speaker 1: job with it. No question about any of the avidacee
Speaker 1: thatd been not propered by the state, and I think
Speaker 1: that's a large part because of BCI's professionalism. The Mountain
Speaker 1: dew can and cigarette butts contained traces of Gary Rowden's DNA.
Speaker 1: Next Handshawn Fortnan moved on to the exterior of the trailer.
Speaker 1: Tell us what stood out to you when you did
Speaker 1: that initial look. I noticed that there were multiple bullet
Speaker 1: holes in the front of the house. There were six
Speaker 1: bullet holes in a line moving progressively closer to the door.
Speaker 1: You notice the screen door had bullet holes, but the
Speaker 1: front door did not. Was that correct? Yeah, I've seen that.
Speaker 1: That led me to believe that the front door was
Speaker 1: most likely open when the blood lighting event had occurred
Speaker 1: on the evening of April twenty first, twenty sixteen, it
Speaker 1: was clear and breezy and piked in temperatures win the
Speaker 1: low seventies until about seven pm, when the wind picked up,
Speaker 1: dropping the temperature to the high fifties. The open door
Speaker 1: likely provided Chris and Gary with some welcomed fresh air.
Speaker 1: Stephanie and I talk about some of the photographs shown
Speaker 1: in trial and the details they revealed. We've heard a
Speaker 1: lot of reports over the years that Chris Senior, Frankie Rodin,
Speaker 1: and even Chris Jor Rodin worked at Big Bear Lake
Speaker 1: at various times. They operated big equipment. We know that
Speaker 1: Chris Sior was said to be building patios in and
Speaker 1: around the area, but we've never been able to substantiate
Speaker 1: those claims, essentially until now. Gary Roden, Chris Senior, Roden's cousin,
Speaker 1: also worked at Big Bear Lake, specifically when he was
Speaker 1: staying with Chris Rodin, which he did on occasion, and
Speaker 1: this was one of the times that he was staying there,
Speaker 1: you know, working just to make a living. Looking at
Speaker 1: the crime scene photos, we can see the clothing that
Speaker 1: Chris Senior was wearing when he was murdered, and he's
Speaker 1: literally wearing a hooded sweatshirt that says Big Bear Lake
Speaker 1: on it. The question as to whether Chris and Gary
Speaker 1: road and knew their attackers or whether they were taken
Speaker 1: by surprise still remains. Here's forensic medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan.
Speaker 1: They had to neutralize Chris Senior and Gary the positions
Speaker 1: that they occupied in the family. Chris was known not
Speaker 1: to back down. If they did not neutralize them, if
Speaker 1: they just say, grazed him in some way and he
Speaker 1: was able to retreat, or Gary was able to retreat,
Speaker 1: access to phones, or maybe he had an ability to
Speaker 1: get out of that trailer, they could blow the whole
Speaker 1: show them way, because the next thing you know, Dana
Speaker 1: is aware of what's about to happen, Hannah is aware,
Speaker 1: and her trailer were what's going to happen. They couldn't
Speaker 1: run the risk of allowing one of these people to
Speaker 1: get to jump on them or to alert anybody else.
Speaker 1: So I think that that's why they went to Chris's
Speaker 1: house first and neutralize Chris Senior and Gary. At the
Speaker 1: same time, Prosecuting Attorney Wilson brings up photos of clean
Speaker 1: exit holes on the interior wall of the trailer. There
Speaker 1: are torn bits of woods circling the holes. What does
Speaker 1: that indicate to you? It indicates directionality. First of all,
Speaker 1: that whatever object calls that would have appeared to be
Speaker 1: coming from the outside end, because this is on the inside,
Speaker 1: or every bullet will be tract had characteristics and appeared
Speaker 1: to come from the front of the residence toward the
Speaker 1: residence and then away from the residence. And again, will
Speaker 1: these consistent with path through type shots. Yes, sir, some
Speaker 1: of the bullets went clean through the trailer and out
Speaker 1: through the opposite wall. Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan, Well,
Speaker 1: first off, you're talking about a mobile home, which is
Speaker 1: obviously not the most robust structure. Anyway, You've got a
Speaker 1: projectile that is traveling out of the end of that muzzle,
Speaker 1: and it is supersonic. That means that with a hop
Speaker 1: powered rifle, it is actually traveling faster than speed of sound.
Speaker 1: That little paper thin wall within a mobile home is
Speaker 1: not going to stop one of these high velocity rounds.
Speaker 1: It's going to travel through till it strikes another area
Speaker 1: or a person that it would have sufficiently slowed it down,
Speaker 1: and so it would have been I think a moment
Speaker 1: of total chaos and confusion. One photo shows an exit
Speaker 1: hole right next to walart that says, quote love less Forever.
Speaker 1: The jury has shown a diagram of where bullet shards
Speaker 1: were found inside the trailer. There are two on the
Speaker 1: front porch and a bunch around the chair. In Chris
Speaker 1: Senior's living room, a bullet is waged a stereo speaker
Speaker 1: as well. In addition to that projectile that you just
Speaker 1: identified from inside the wall, there were there are other
Speaker 1: projectiles in different areas of that living room. Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: there's a stack of tan pouches and boxes in front
Speaker 1: of Agent Handshaw. At this point, George Wagner fiddles with
Speaker 1: his goatee. His defense attorney checks his watch. Every bullet
Speaker 1: chart that was collected is painstakingly taken out of its
Speaker 1: corresponding envelope and confirmed by Hanshaw as evidence he bagged
Speaker 1: six years ago. Here's James Pilcher, longtime investigative reporter in
Speaker 1: Cincinnati now with Local twelve, followed by Joseph Scott Morgan.
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of us in the media and
Speaker 1: in the Lake community laming not lawyers are like, why
Speaker 1: can't they speed this up? Why are they going through
Speaker 1: every showcase. I think they're trying to cut the defense
Speaker 1: off at the knees as much as possible to say,
Speaker 1: we exhausted every avenue and came up with this conclusion.
Speaker 1: And we looked at every cigarette butt, and we looked
Speaker 1: at every DNA sample, and we did everything we could.
Speaker 1: You know, we live in a faster world people. I
Speaker 1: think it even extends out to courtroom. They want things
Speaker 1: delivered to them immediately, and sometimes it takes longer to prepare.
Speaker 1: It certainly takes much longer to make your way through it,
Speaker 1: and that's the case with us. We're talking about eight
Speaker 1: dead bodies here, eight in four different locations. Was there
Speaker 1: any evidence that you saw with your eyes based on
Speaker 1: your knowledge, your training, your experience, that led you to
Speaker 1: believe that any shots had originated from inside of that trailer.
Speaker 1: Going outside of that trailer, I found nothing at all
Speaker 1: that would indicate that any shots were fired from within
Speaker 1: the house. Going out of the house, my opinion was
Speaker 1: that the shots did occur from outside. I felt that
Speaker 1: they were from the front yard area. Agent Todd Partner
Speaker 1: was brought in to use what is called a Pharaoh
Speaker 1: three D scanner of the entire crime scene, including the exterior.
Speaker 1: Here again Joseph Scott Morgan with the Farrow technology. It
Speaker 1: is a laser that is set up and it's kind
Speaker 1: of hard to describe if folks have not seen one.
Speaker 1: It sits on a tripod and it is a can
Speaker 1: to something that you would see along the side of
Speaker 1: the roadway. If you've ever seen an individual doing surveying,
Speaker 1: only the scene is automated, and you have the lasers
Speaker 1: that are being essentially blasted out at one portion of
Speaker 1: the unit, and the unit itself is spinning around as
Speaker 1: these lasers are kind of firing off in every different direction.
Speaker 1: The laser is shooting over ten million different points as
Speaker 1: it spins around, and you can capture height, depth, width,
Speaker 1: all of those things that we could normally do with
Speaker 1: a regular SLR punement scene. So it really breeds life
Speaker 1: into this when you're taking a look at it. And
Speaker 1: so when the jury members see this in that courtroom
Speaker 1: in Pike County, Ohio for just a few moments, they're
Speaker 1: transported back in time. Walk us through, what do you
Speaker 1: remember about scanning that scene. We did one scame from
Speaker 1: outside out front where you could see kind of the
Speaker 1: whole front yard. There were bullet holes in the front
Speaker 1: of the trailer that subsequently we placed trajectory rods in
Speaker 1: and to measure those we place years on those rods
Speaker 1: that then the scanner can pick up to measure our angles.
Speaker 1: Trajectory rods are poked through bullet holes, giving investigators a
Speaker 1: general idea of the path of the bullet as it
Speaker 1: passed through a surface. He pulls a three D model
Speaker 1: of the entire yard with long lines running into the
Speaker 1: front yard. Based on the angular measurement data. We take
Speaker 1: the horizontal angle the vertical angle, and this is just
Speaker 1: a line drawn between those two spheres, a straight line
Speaker 1: that then can be extrapolated back to a possible origin
Speaker 1: of those shots. Based on the data that the Farrow
Speaker 1: scan was telling you, was it believed that those shots
Speaker 1: that went through that front door came somewhere from the
Speaker 1: area just behind that bushold They point to a spot
Speaker 1: in the ground about twenty feet from the front door
Speaker 1: on the front lawn. What we do know is there
Speaker 1: are strikes in the front of the porch, so it
Speaker 1: had to be at least there, and where the trajectory
Speaker 1: lines end on the groundswood couldn't be Joseph Scott Morgan.
Speaker 1: These rounds appear to be going from below to above,
Speaker 1: so they're rising up essentially from the ground. More than
Speaker 1: likely they would be in a kneeling position. I think
Speaker 1: folks would ask, well, why would you be in a
Speaker 1: kneeling position to do that? Well, you would want to
Speaker 1: try to secure your person as solidly as you possibly
Speaker 1: can because the recoil and with this particular weapon. There
Speaker 1: is a tremendous amount of recoil because this is such
Speaker 1: a robust round. You're going to feel it from the
Speaker 1: moment you engage that trigger until that energy transfers through
Speaker 1: the bud of that weapon and into your shoulder. Here's Stephanie.
Speaker 1: We've also heard reports that Senior was expecting Billy Wagner,
Speaker 1: the accused dad, that night. They were apparently going to
Speaker 1: have an important conversation. So what does that mean? Does
Speaker 1: that mean that Billy went up to the door and
Speaker 1: knocked on it and Chris answered, Could it be that
Speaker 1: they were just surprised? Does the idea of there being
Speaker 1: a person kneeling in wait outside of Christinior's home in
Speaker 1: the dark near the woods is such a terrifying thought.
Speaker 1: But we still don't know who that person is, which
Speaker 1: one wasn't. We're going to take a break. We'll be
Speaker 1: back in a moment. At this point, testimony moves to
Speaker 1: the inside of the home. In the galley, members of
Speaker 1: the Rodent, Gilly, and Manly families prepare themselves for another
Speaker 1: day of horrific photos. Geneva, Chris Senior's mother, sits stoically
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. Her daughter hands her a tissue, even
Speaker 1: though she isn't crying yet. I'll talk about blood or
Speaker 1: biological evidence at this scene, they start with the pools
Speaker 1: of blood and an around a recliner in the living
Speaker 1: room inside the front door. Just from what we saw,
Speaker 1: it's obvious that you can see what you could consider
Speaker 1: to be origins or a place that a person was
Speaker 1: in when the blood lighting event occurred. Did you take
Speaker 1: some swabs of the blood in front of that chair, Yes, sir,
Speaker 1: I did. Handshaw meticulously documented shoeprints in the dried blood
Speaker 1: in and around the area as well. Is it more
Speaker 1: likely for a shoeprint to be tracked or picked up
Speaker 1: in blood when that blood is wet or fresh as
Speaker 1: opposed to dry and pool Absolutely. Yes. You said when
Speaker 1: you very first observed these footprints, they were already dry
Speaker 1: in the blood. Is that correct? Yes, they were. So
Speaker 1: you talk about preserving it, documenting it. How do you
Speaker 1: go through actually photographing it and then ultimately collecting any
Speaker 1: shoe runs in this scene? Yes, they we're all photographed
Speaker 1: and documented as they were as they were when they
Speaker 1: were found. And when you talk about detail, what's standing
Speaker 1: out to you where you're like, Oh, they may be
Speaker 1: able to do something with this. What's actually standing out
Speaker 1: to me at that particular time was the fact that
Speaker 1: can I stand again, please, in this area of the shoe,
Speaker 1: I'm not seeing any kind of wear pattern at all.
Speaker 1: That meant something to me. The supernt evidence could not
Speaker 1: be shown to anyone outside the courtroom because Judge Steering
Speaker 1: ordered media not to show any photos that included blood.
Speaker 1: Sitting through this testimony, victims families are of course emotional.
Speaker 1: One family member looks down, not wanting to see what
Speaker 1: comes next. Here again, James Filcher don't want to shock
Speaker 1: the jury, but they also don't want to offend the family.
Speaker 1: There's been some serious tension between the media and the
Speaker 1: family and the prosecution that's borne out on some of
Speaker 1: these motions and some of these other things that we're
Speaker 1: seeing because we think everything should be shown. I mean,
Speaker 1: blood is blood. They're bloody crime scenes. This is what happened.
Speaker 1: You got to know how these people died. You got
Speaker 1: to see it. I mean, it's part of a murder trial.
Speaker 1: And there's eight victims, all shot multiple times, so it's
Speaker 1: part of the deal. In this same area of the
Speaker 1: living room, you identify that as being on the floor.
Speaker 1: Did you also find what appeared to be blood splatter
Speaker 1: on the wall? Yes, we did. Is there anything that
Speaker 1: sticks out to yether with respect any directionality of that
Speaker 1: blood or anything like that. First of all, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of blood stains on this wall, and in my
Speaker 1: training that all of these stains from what I see
Speaker 1: are descending stains, which means they are traveling down when
Speaker 1: they struck this wall. Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan, that
Speaker 1: is an indication of a lot of anger, because you
Speaker 1: would think that anybody that was familiar enough with firearms
Speaker 1: that would show up into some counenvironment would also know
Speaker 1: what kind of forces being brought there. With just one shot,
Speaker 1: you should be able to recognize that you don't really
Speaker 1: need that many. But for some reason, the perpetrator found
Speaker 1: it necessary to lay into Chris Senior, specifically to make
Speaker 1: sure that he was totally completely eradicated that he would
Speaker 1: not rise again. How did you take that swab? Where'd
Speaker 1: you submitted to and was that eventually submitted to the
Speaker 1: lab for DNA testing? I believe that eventually it was
Speaker 1: submitted for DNA testing to determine actually which victim's blood.
Speaker 1: This was the swabs from the staining contained in that exhibit.
Speaker 1: The living room of four zero seven seven Unionville Road,
Speaker 1: also depicted in photo ID number eighteen, tested positive for
Speaker 1: blood and the DNA profile of the blood from this
Speaker 1: swab contains Chris Rodent Senior's DNA. One family member barries
Speaker 1: are facing their hands, another covers her mouth and whips
Speaker 1: of tears. If Chris Senior was still alive lying on
Speaker 1: the floor at the next bit of evidence may explain
Speaker 1: what happened in the last moments of his life. As
Speaker 1: you were doing your examination of this area, did you
Speaker 1: also find a projectile strike in the floor by that
Speaker 1: rocker recliment, Yes, sir, It was quite some time later
Speaker 1: before I felt that we were at a point in
Speaker 1: our processing and our investigation that I was able to
Speaker 1: move that chair. When we did move the chair, that's
Speaker 1: when it was we noticed that there was a bullet
Speaker 1: hole or suspected bullet hole in the floor right next
Speaker 1: to the chair. It appeared that it was going from
Speaker 1: above down. We knew that it came from inside going
Speaker 1: down toward the floor, and assumed that it may have
Speaker 1: exited under the mobile home. Todd Fortner explains further, and
Speaker 1: at some point, did you actually use rods to try
Speaker 1: to determine the angle that that bullet may have gone
Speaker 1: through that floor? Yes, it's a fairly steep downward angle,
Speaker 1: so the muzzle of the weapon was fairly close. A
Speaker 1: second hole was found here, and the rod then will
Speaker 1: extend downward through that hole. And did you find again
Speaker 1: that second hole to be in line or in trajectory
Speaker 1: with that first hole that you expect the riding Yes.
Speaker 1: Were you able to track that hole through that joice
Speaker 1: beneath that trailer, yes, we were able to track it
Speaker 1: down into the ground. At that point, another agent, Durst,
Speaker 1: crawled under the trailer and recovered one of the bullets.
Speaker 1: What did you notice about that projectile? What it was
Speaker 1: a hollow point. Appeared to be a pistol projectile that
Speaker 1: had not expanded. Basically, the way a hollow point bullet
Speaker 1: works is a softer substance. Human tissue is designed to
Speaker 1: go in and expand those metal pedals out in order
Speaker 1: to create a larger wound track. Joseph Scott Morgan. Most
Speaker 1: people when they think of a bullet projectile, they'll think
Speaker 1: of will refer to as a ball ammunition that's a
Speaker 1: bullet that kind of has a rounded nose on it.
Speaker 1: That's kind of the traditional image that you think about.
Speaker 1: So if you have a forty caliber round that's being
Speaker 1: fired out of a weapon, forty caliber is pretty much
Speaker 1: what you're going to get with ball ammunition that can
Speaker 1: deform and all those sorts of things, But the diameter
Speaker 1: of a round is not going to change that much. However,
Speaker 1: when you start talking about a hollow point, what happens
Speaker 1: is that once that round passes out of the end
Speaker 1: of the muzzle and it winds up on its targeted area,
Speaker 1: these little the only way I can really describe it,
Speaker 1: are these little wings essentially kind of deploy. You have
Speaker 1: a forty caliber round that suddenly deploys out upwards a
Speaker 1: forty five caliber. Fortner explains why the bullets they found
Speaker 1: didn't deploy. If it hits something hard for instance, would concrete,
Speaker 1: potentially even bone, before hitting enough of a quantity of
Speaker 1: soft tissue to expand, it will basically just dent the
Speaker 1: front of it and it will keep going and it
Speaker 1: will basically become a non hollow point projectile. Of the
Speaker 1: training experience that I didn't hit like soft tissue. Yes,
Speaker 1: the bullets themselves kind of speak to you. As a
Speaker 1: Cromp scene investigator. I do recall something where the actual
Speaker 1: sequencing of the gunfire tells a story this vividly because
Speaker 1: you get an idea of when this horror is just
Speaker 1: visited upon Chris Senior along with Gary, there's an awareness,
Speaker 1: I think you know that the world is kind of
Speaker 1: blown apart inside of this home. His arm was mangled,
Speaker 1: and so he's writhing in pain on the floor, and
Speaker 1: then you see these other rounds that come from another
Speaker 1: weapon and they pump them into his body. His life
Speaker 1: andrew right there on the floor. Sadly, it seems Gary
Speaker 1: Roden suffered a similarly terrifying end. Agent Henshaw found his
Speaker 1: glasses and baseball cap nearby in the kitchen. Hanshaw opens
Speaker 1: another envelope and pulls out Gary Roden's bloodstained hat. As
Speaker 1: you examine that hole or perforation from the outside, did
Speaker 1: you notice any blowout or any frame of that hole
Speaker 1: on the back there that indicated that it was an
Speaker 1: exit wound as opposed to an entrance hole. Appeared to
Speaker 1: be what I initially thought it could be. Okay, let
Speaker 1: me ask you this at some point. Did you later
Speaker 1: learn that when that idol is being examined, a possible
Speaker 1: piece of a projectile fell out of it? Yes? Were
Speaker 1: you able to look at that hat and possibly track
Speaker 1: where that bullet had actually come out at the front
Speaker 1: of the hat. At this point, George Wagner's face reddens
Speaker 1: and he clenches his jaw. And again, does it appear
Speaker 1: that that area that hat has been pulled or torn
Speaker 1: or ripped away from the hat? The bill area there? Yes?
Speaker 1: Sor it does here again? And instigative reporter James Pilcher,
Speaker 1: followed by medical forensics examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. Somebody shot
Speaker 1: Gary rode it in the back of the head. The
Speaker 1: bullet went through his head and then knocked his cap off,
Speaker 1: and the bullet lodged in the bill of his cap.
Speaker 1: Once hell begins to rain down, you know where all
Speaker 1: of this is occurring. The door bust open. How did
Speaker 1: he react at that moment? Top? Was he in total shock?
Speaker 1: Did he have an awareness? Did he know that Chris
Speaker 1: Senior screamed out as his arm was kind of blown apart?
Speaker 1: Did he rush to his side? And we don't really
Speaker 1: know that part, but in my mind I'll imagine that,
Speaker 1: you know, the same person that exerted dominance over Chris Senior.
Speaker 1: Potentially it would have been very easy, as Gary is
Speaker 1: kind of tending to this dear family member, is for
Speaker 1: somebody to have just simply ended his life execution style
Speaker 1: as he stands over this round into the back of
Speaker 1: this head. Can you tell us what we're looking at
Speaker 1: and where we're heading there A two, one, four. We'll
Speaker 1: be standing in this general area again this seeing the
Speaker 1: kitchen chairs here, and you're beginning to see blood patterns.
Speaker 1: At some point, did you continue to move through that
Speaker 1: residence back towards the back bedroom where the bodies were, Yes, sir,
Speaker 1: I did. He found Chris and Gary at the foot
Speaker 1: of the bed covered in a blanket. After taking photos
Speaker 1: of the entire room, Handshaw carefully removed the blanket to
Speaker 1: further document the bodies. You tell us what's depicted in
Speaker 1: this picture and what you're trying to show, trying to
Speaker 1: show the original position of the hands of the victim.
Speaker 1: The victims family members are having an incredibly hard time
Speaker 1: with the graphic photos. Someone allowed them elves to look
Speaker 1: up at the screen where the photos are being projected.
Speaker 1: Others weep openly A four to fifty once again as
Speaker 1: a photograph of our victim's hand, showing obviously blood and
Speaker 1: some the condition of the clothing as well. Okay, when
Speaker 1: we're talking, victim is just the big first victim, Chris
Speaker 1: rod Yes, it is. When you look at his body position,
Speaker 1: did you find his arms would be up over his
Speaker 1: head and his sweatshirt rolled back over his head. Yes.
Speaker 1: When they got to Gary and Chris Senior's bodies to
Speaker 1: do their examinations, their hands were above their heads and
Speaker 1: their shirts sweatshirts were pushed up. Now for us, that's
Speaker 1: an indication that a body has been drug Yes, this
Speaker 1: would be the arm of Gary Rodin, and it extends
Speaker 1: out parallel with the bed and there's saturation stains or
Speaker 1: a large amount of flood on the exterior of the jacket.
Speaker 1: In that photograph, you can see a lot of blood
Speaker 1: around the mouth and those discoloration around the eyes, and
Speaker 1: then what I thought appeared to be a bullet hole
Speaker 1: near the ear. And did you continue to document or
Speaker 1: get closer pictures of what you believed to be a
Speaker 1: bullet hole? Yes, sir, I did. What is the purpose
Speaker 1: of taking those pictures with respect to that body at
Speaker 1: the seat. I want to document this as much as possible.
Speaker 1: I can't control what anybody else does after these bodies
Speaker 1: are taken out of my care or after I'm going,
Speaker 1: so I want to document them as they were, as
Speaker 1: I found them. To essentially settle back and understand. Anything
Speaker 1: that I do with the bodies, I can move it
Speaker 1: slightly and it takes it completely out of context. So
Speaker 1: he was probably direct to tell your people to take
Speaker 1: the bodies out this specific way, and you know, when
Speaker 1: it comes to Chris Senior and Gary, that's important. Hanshaw
Speaker 1: testifies that along with the photographs, his team took hundreds
Speaker 1: of blood sample swabs from the home and the bodies
Speaker 1: of Chris and Gary Rodin. They also used what is
Speaker 1: called a forensic vacuum. Tell the jury what a forensic
Speaker 1: vacuum is and how a forensic vacuum works. That's relatively sample.
Speaker 1: We have a small vacuum that are designated for that purpose,
Speaker 1: and that purpose only would be able to look for
Speaker 1: trace evidends such as hairs, fibers, anything residual that might
Speaker 1: have been left behind. From there, we would seal that
Speaker 1: bag and then I normally would put that bag in
Speaker 1: another bag and put my label and my signature on it.
Speaker 1: If I'm wearing a mask of hood and gloves, is
Speaker 1: that going to impede my DNA from going somewhere where
Speaker 1: you're going to vacuum up with your forensic vacuum. Yes,
Speaker 1: it can. If Andy Wilson drags those bodies to the
Speaker 1: back of the bedroom and I've got gloves on, Am
Speaker 1: I gonna leave touch DNA? Most likely not, But you
Speaker 1: do that anyways just in case. Is that correct? Yes,
Speaker 1: at that particular time, you have no idea if a
Speaker 1: suspect was wearing gloves or not wearing gloves. Here's Jeff
Speaker 1: speaking with Joseph Scott Morgan. Here we are a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks into the trial. The prosecution still has this
Speaker 1: a DNA problem. The more cases that cover, personally, the
Speaker 1: more I hear this cry, you know, from the public,
Speaker 1: where's the DNA? Was the DNA? Jurors walk in and
Speaker 1: they are expecting DNA and every single case and I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: that's not accurate. It's not going to happen every single time.
Speaker 1: You know, if you have a barrier between your hand
Speaker 1: and the surface that you placed that hand upon, there
Speaker 1: is not much of an opportunity for you to shed
Speaker 1: these dead skin cells that will have an incomplete strand
Speaker 1: of DNA in them. It makes it difficult for the prosecution.
Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another break. After hours of testimony
Speaker 1: centered on blood and projectile evidence in the home, the
Speaker 1: prosecution turns to Chris Senior's garage and the space above it.
Speaker 1: Investigator Henshaw was initially drawn to the security cameras we
Speaker 1: thought it appeared as though it were pointing toward the residents. Okay,
Speaker 1: at some point, did that pe your interest to try
Speaker 1: to go find a DVR or recording device that might
Speaker 1: be linked to that bammer? Yes, we attempted to look
Speaker 1: for any kind of according device that would have maybe
Speaker 1: documented what happened or given us some idea I would
Speaker 1: trace the wire's back. They led inside and we found nothing,
Speaker 1: no recording device connected to this system. They tested the
Speaker 1: disconnected wires for DNA in case the perpetrators had handled them.
Speaker 1: There was nothing. But the door into the building also
Speaker 1: stood out to h and Handshaw. Did you examine that
Speaker 1: door a little more further for other evidence or the
Speaker 1: possibility about two things stood out to me? One as
Speaker 1: it appeared as though there was fourth century, which would
Speaker 1: be consistent with the door handle lying on the upper
Speaker 1: surface of the porch. And the second thing is that
Speaker 1: appeared to be a transfer, a small transfer of blood
Speaker 1: on the exterior face of that door. This doesn't look
Speaker 1: like a spatter pattern. It looks like a transfer pattern.
Speaker 1: The difference would be a transfer would be if I
Speaker 1: had blood on my hand and I touched this paper
Speaker 1: or something else and then moved it away, I probably
Speaker 1: wouldn't leave blood that I transferred from my hand onto
Speaker 1: that surface. Did you eventually take steps to identify that
Speaker 1: according to your BCI numbers and try to collect that
Speaker 1: blood for further testing. Yes, those swabs were sent to
Speaker 1: the lab for testing that stain. Are those swabs tested
Speaker 1: positive for the presence of blood and the blood contained
Speaker 1: in those swabs contained the DNA of Gary Rodent. The
Speaker 1: defense has a few questions for either of the BCI agents,
Speaker 1: but they do offer one final stipulation. When things are
Speaker 1: stipulated to, it is an agreement that's entered into between
Speaker 1: defense counsel and prosecution that they will stipulate to that
Speaker 1: bit of evidence that they're not going to argue it
Speaker 1: am not going to debate it during this time. The
Speaker 1: parties have another stipulation. All right, put that on the record.
Speaker 1: Then yes, the parties will stipulate and agree that with
Speaker 1: respect to four zero seven seven Union Hill Road, none
Speaker 1: of the evidence collected or examined with respect to that
Speaker 1: scene contained any DNA that was linked to George Wagner,
Speaker 1: this defendant, Jake Wagner, Angela Wagner, or Billy Wagner. That's crazy.
Speaker 1: That's the voice of Special Prosecutor Andrew Wilson, conceding there
Speaker 1: was no DNA evidence linking any of the Wagner family
Speaker 1: to the site where relatives found Chris Roden Senior and
Speaker 1: his cousin Gary dead in April twenty sixteen. There's no
Speaker 1: DNA evidence. People who are not involved in the system.
Speaker 1: It's the first thing either their mouse well, d have
Speaker 1: DNA anag well for me, the shoeprints tell everything. We've
Speaker 1: been using shoeprints for over one hundred years now. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's been accepted in courtrooms in a lot of different
Speaker 1: places as valid science. It was a massacre, but it
Speaker 1: didn't seem as though they went back to kind of
Speaker 1: cover their traces. I think they did take a lot
Speaker 1: of steps, but there's no such thing as the perfect crime.
Speaker 1: The term criminal mastermind is kind of an etymoron because
Speaker 1: criminals generally aren't masterminds, and they often make mistakes which
Speaker 1: lead to say that conviction, and this is one of
Speaker 1: those examples. More on that next time. For more information
Speaker 1: on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: at Katie Underscore Studios. The Pikedon Masaker is produced by
Speaker 1: Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Scott de Graw, Andrew ar Now,
Speaker 1: Gabriel Castillo and me Whertney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed
Speaker 1: by Jeff Tis. Music by Jared Aston. The piked In
Speaker 1: Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and Kati Studios. For
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