1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: New details into what was uncovered at the gruesome crime 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: scenes in Pike County. The prosecutors began their painstaking process 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: of walking through every single piece of evidence, focusing on 4 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: that first home owned by Chris Rodents Sr. When you've 5 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: got to make it through eight house sides, your damn 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: riot is going to take a long time. Because each 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: one of those people count each person had a life. 8 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: This has to be one of the most horrific things, 9 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: if not the most horrific night of this person's life. 10 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: This is the Pike Did Massacre. Return to Pike County 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: Season four, Episode six, Mountains of Evidence. I'm Courtney Armstrong, 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: a television producer at Kat's Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and 13 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: Jeff Shane. Thus far, George Wagner, the fourth trial, has 14 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: been both mundane and shaka. It's important to note that 15 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: George Wagner, the fourth currently on trial, has pleaded not 16 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: guilty and has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father, 17 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not 18 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: guilty to all charges. The prosecution is making its case methodically, 19 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: with hours of testimony occasionally punctuated with gruesome new details 20 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: of the night in question. The defense has been mostly quiet, 21 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: seemingly waiting for Angiekinneppa and her team to present anything. 22 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: Dying George Wagner to the crime safely college snecked witness 23 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: thanking fait a column hating Shane Hanshaw. Please raise your 24 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: right hand. Do you sollemnly swear or affirm that the 25 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: testimony you were about to give showed the truth, the 26 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: whole truth, and nothing but the truth, as you shall 27 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: answer unto God. Yes I did. Shane Henshaw was one 28 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: of the lead agents for the Ohio Bureau of Criminal 29 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: Investigations the CBI. He arrived on seeing hours after the 30 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: bodies of Chris Rodin Senior and his cousin Gary Roden 31 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: were discovered. This morning, Andrew Wilson is asking the questions 32 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 1: for the prosecution's talk a little bit about your background 33 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,119 Speaker 1: or your employment history, taking you up to your current employment. 34 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: So when did you start out in law enforcement? I 35 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: was basically commissioned as a peace officer in nineteen ninety. 36 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: The first fifteen minutes of testimony highlight Handshaw's qualifications. He 37 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: has years of training in crime scene reconstruction, ballistics, and 38 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: blood spatter analysis. When I first arrived at the scene. 39 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: You can see here that there's a lot of buildings, 40 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: there's a lot of vehicles, There's a lot of things, 41 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: but are primary focused at that particular time working in 42 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: this area. The prosecution displays a large photo of Chris 43 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: Roden Senior's property agent Henshaw out the front yard. A 44 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: tow truck sits outside the home Chris Senior lived in 45 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: where Gary was staying that night. There's an eighteen wheeler 46 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: trailer and an eighty sedan with the front half missing. 47 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: Henshaw began his investigation on the lawn itself. As part 48 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: of your work in this case, did you collect the 49 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: mountain de can it's depicted that picture. Yes, I did. 50 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: In addition to that mountain dew can? Did you find 51 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: a couple other items out front of boards zero seven 52 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: seven Union Hill? Write yes, sir. Once again, you see 53 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: my placard number two, the scaled placard, and you see 54 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: a cigarette butt or a partial cigarette butt there. When 55 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: it comes to testifying, it's clear Hanshaw as well practiced. 56 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: He listens intently to every question then turns deliberately to 57 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: address the jury face to face. As part of your 58 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: work in this case. Did you collect that cigarette butt? Yes, sir, 59 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: I did. From everything that I've seen and heard, he 60 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: did an excellent job with it. No question about any 61 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: of the evidence that been not proper by the state, 62 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: And I think that's a large part because of BCI's professionalism. 63 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: The mountain dewken and cigarette butts contained traces of Gary 64 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: Ruden's DNA. Next Handshawn fort and moved on to the 65 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: exterior of the trailer. Tell us what stood out to 66 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: you when you did that initial work. I noticed that 67 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: there were multiple bullet holes in the front of the house. 68 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: There were six bullet holes in a line moving progressively 69 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: closer to the door. You notice the screen door had 70 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: bullet holes, but the front door did not. Is that correct? Yes, 71 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: I seen that. That led me to believe that the 72 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: front door was most likely open when the blood lighting 73 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: the pin had occurred on the evening of April twenty first, 74 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. It was clear and breezy and piked in 75 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: temperatures when the low seventies until about seven pm, when 76 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: the wind picked up, dropping the temperature to the high fifties. 77 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: The open door likely provided Gary with some welcomed fresh 78 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: air Stephanie and I talk about some of the photographs 79 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: shown in trial and the details they reveal. We've heard 80 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: a lot of reports over the years that Chris Frankie Rodin, 81 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: and even Chris Junior Rodin worked at Big Bear Lake 82 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: at various times. They operated big equipment. We know that 83 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: Chris Senior was said to be building patios in and 84 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: around the area, but we've never been able to substantiate 85 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: those claims, essentially until now. Gary Roden, Chris Senior, Roden's cousin, 86 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 1: also worked at Big Bear Lake, specifically when he was 87 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: staying with Chris Rodin, which he did on occasion, and 88 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: this was one of the times that he was staying there, 89 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: you know, working just to make a living. Looking at 90 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: the crime scene photos, we can see the clothing that 91 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: Chris Senior was wearing when he was murdered, and he's 92 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:00,119 Speaker 1: literally wearing a hooded sweatshirt that says Big Bear Lake 93 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: on it. The question as to whether Chris and Gary 94 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: Roden knew their attackers or whether they were taken by 95 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: surprise still remains. Here's forensic medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. 96 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: They had to neutralize Chris and Gary the positions that 97 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: they occupied in the family. Chris was known not to 98 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: back down if they did not neutralize them. If they 99 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: just say, grazed him in some way and he was 100 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: able to retreat, or Gary was able to retreat, and 101 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: they had access to phones, or maybe they had an 102 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: ability to get out of that trailer, they could blow 103 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: the whole show that way, because next thing you know, 104 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: Dana is aware of what's about to happen. Hannah is 105 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: aware in her trailer were what's going to happen. They 106 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: couldn't run the risk of allowing one of these people 107 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: to get to jump on them or to alert anybody else. 108 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: So I think that that's why they went to Chris's 109 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: house first and neutralized Chris Senior and Gary. At the 110 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: same time, Prosecuting Attorney Wilson brings up photos of clean 111 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: exit holes on the interior wall of the trailer. There 112 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: are torn bits of wood circling the holes. What does 113 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: that indicate to you? It indicates directionality. First of all, 114 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: that whatever object calls that would have appeared to be 115 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: coming from the outside end, because this is on the inside, 116 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: or every bullet will retract, had characteristics and appeared to 117 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: come from the front of the residence, toward the residence, 118 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: and then away from the residence. And again were these 119 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: consistent with path through type shots? Yes, sir, some of 120 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: the bullets went clean through the trailer and out through 121 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: the opposite wall. Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan, Well, first off, 122 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: you're talking about a mobile home, which is obviously not 123 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: the most robust structure. Anyway, You've got a projectile that 124 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: is traveling the end of that muzzle, and it is supersonic. 125 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: That means that with a high powered rifle, it is 126 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: actually traveling faster than the sweet of sound. That little 127 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: paper thin wall within a mobile home is not going 128 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: to stop one of these high velocity rounds. It's going 129 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: to travel through until it strikes another area or person 130 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: that it would have sufficiently slowed it down, and so 131 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: it would have been I think a moment of total 132 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: chaos and confusion. One photo shows an exit hole right 133 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: next to Walart that says, quote lovelass forever. The jury 134 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: has shown a diagram of where bullet shards were found 135 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: inside the trailer. There are two on the front porch 136 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: and a bunch around the chair in Chris Senior's living room, 137 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 1: A large and a stereo speaker as well. In addition 138 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: to that projectile that you just identified from inside the wall, 139 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: there were there are other projectiles in different areas of 140 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: that living room. Yes, okay, there's a stack of tan 141 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: pouches and boxes in front of Agent Hanshaw. At this point, 142 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: George Wagner fiddles with his goatee. His defense attorney checks 143 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: his watch. Every bullet shard that was collected is painstakingly 144 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: taken out of its corresponding envelope and confirmed by Hanshaw 145 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: as evidence he bagged six years ago. Here's James Pilcher, 146 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati now with Local twelve, followed 147 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: by Joseph Scott Morgan. I mean, a lot of us 148 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: in the media and in the Lake community lay meing 149 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: not lawyers, are like, why can't they speed this up? 150 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: Why are they going through every showcase. I think they're 151 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: trying to cut the defence off at the knees as 152 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: much as possible to say, we exhausted every avenue and 153 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: came up with this conclusion. And we looked at every 154 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: cigarette butt, and we looked at every DNA sample, and 155 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: we did everything we could. You know, we live in 156 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: a faster world people. I think it even extends out 157 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: to courtroom. They want things delivered to them immediately, and 158 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: sometimes it takes longer to prepare. It certainly takes much 159 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: longer to make your way through it. And that's the 160 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: case with this. We're talking about eight dead bodies here, 161 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: eight in four different locations. Was there any evidence that 162 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: you saw with your eyes based on your knowledge, your training, 163 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: your experience, that led you to believe that any shots 164 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: had originated from inside of that trailer. Going outside of 165 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 1: that trailer, I found nothing at all that would indicate 166 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: that any shots were fired from within the house. Going 167 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: out of the house, my opinion was that the shots 168 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: did occur from outside. I felt that they were from 169 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: the front yard area. Agent Todd Fortner was brought in 170 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: to use what is called a Pharaoh three D scanner 171 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: of the entire crime scene, including the exterior. Here again 172 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan with the Farad technology. It is a 173 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: laser that is set up and it's kind of hard 174 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: to describe if folks have not seen one. It sits 175 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: on a tripod and it is akin to something that 176 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: you would see along the side of the roadway. If 177 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: you've ever seen an individual doing surveying. Only this scene 178 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: is automated and you have the lasers that are being 179 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: essentially blasted out of one portion of the unit, and 180 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: the unit itself is spinning around as these lasers are 181 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: kind of firing off in every different direction. The laser 182 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: is shooting over ten million different points as it spins around, 183 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: and you can capture height, depth, width, all of those 184 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,079 Speaker 1: things that we could normally do with a regular SLR 185 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: unit scene. So it really breeds life into this when 186 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:24,839 Speaker 1: you're taking a look at it. And so when the 187 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: jury members see this in that courtroom in Pike County, 188 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: Ohio for just a few moments, they're transported back in time. 189 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: Walk us through what do you remember about scanning that scene. 190 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: We did one scan from outside out front where you 191 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: could see kind of the whole front yard. There were 192 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: bullet holes in the front of the trailer that subsequently 193 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: we placed trajectory rods in and to measure those, we 194 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: placed on those rods that then the scanner can pick 195 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: up to measure our angles. Trajectory rods are poked through 196 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: bullet holes, giving investigators a general idea of the path 197 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: of the bullet As it passed through a surface. People's 198 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: a three D model of the entire yard with long 199 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: lines running into the front yard. Based on the angular 200 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: measurement data, we take the horizontal angle the vertical angle, 201 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: and this is just a line drawn between those two spheres, 202 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: a straight line that then can be extrapolated back to 203 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: a possible origin of those shots. Based on the data 204 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: that the furrow scan was telling you, was it believed 205 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: that those shots that went through that front door came 206 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: somewhere from the area just behind that bushold They point 207 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: to a spot in the ground about twenty feet from 208 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: the front door on the front lawn. What we do 209 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: know is there are strikes in the front of the porch, 210 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 1: so it had to be at least there, and where 211 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: the trajectory lines end on the ground, so it couldn't 212 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: And for the red Joseph Scott Morgan, these rounds appear 213 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: to be going from below to above, so they're rising 214 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: up essentially from the ground. More than likely they would 215 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: be in an kneeling position. I think folks would ask, well, 216 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: why would you be in a kneeling position to do that? Well, 217 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: you would want to try to secure your person as 218 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: solidly as you possibly can because the recoil, and with 219 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: this particular weapon, there is a tremendous amount of recall. 220 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: Because this is such a robust round, You're going to 221 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: feel it from the moment you engage that trigger until 222 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: that energy transfers through the bud of that weapon and 223 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: into your shoulder. Here's Stephanie. We've also heard reports that 224 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: for Senior was expecting Billy Wagner, the accused dad, that night. 225 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: They were apparently going to have an important conversation. So 226 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: what does that mean? Does that mean that Billy went 227 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: up to the door and knocked on it and Chris answered, 228 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: Could it be that they were just surprised? Does the 229 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: idea of there being a person kneeling in wait outside 230 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: of Chris Senior's home in the dark near the woods 231 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: is such a terrifying thought, But we still don't know 232 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: who that person is, which one was it. We're going 233 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. 234 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: At this point, testimony moves to the inside of the home. 235 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: In the galley, members of the Rodent, Gilly, and Manly 236 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: families prepare themselves for another day of horrific photos. Geneva, 237 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: Chris Senior's mother, sits stoically in the courtroom. Her daughter 238 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: hands her a tissue, even though she isn't crying yet. 239 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: Let's talk about blood or biological evidence at this scene. 240 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: They start with the pools of blood in and around 241 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: a recliner in the living room inside the front door. 242 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: Just from what we saw, what's obvious that you can 243 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: see what you could consider to be origins or a 244 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: place that a person was in when the blood letting 245 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: event occurred. Did you take some swabs of the blood 246 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: in front of that chair, yes, sir, I did. Hanshawn 247 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: meticulously documented shoeprints in the dry blood in and around 248 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: the area as well. Is it more likely for a 249 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: shoeprint to be tracked or picked up in blood when 250 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: that blood is wet or fresh as opposed to dry 251 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: and book Absolutely? Yes. You said when you very first 252 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: observed these footprints, they were already drying the blood. Is 253 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: that correct? Yes, they were. So you talk about preserving it, 254 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: documenting it, how do you go through actually photographing it 255 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: and then ultimately collecting any shoe prints in this scene? Yes, 256 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: they were all photographed and documented as they were as 257 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 1: they were when they were found and when you talk 258 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: about detail, what's standing out to you where you're like, oh, 259 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: they may be able to do something with this. What's 260 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: actually standing out to me at that particular time was 261 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: the fact that can I stand again, please, in this 262 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: area of the shoe, I'm not seeing any kind of 263 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: wear pattern at all. That meant something to me. The 264 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: schuper and evidence could not be shown to anyone outside 265 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: the courtroom because Judge Steering ordered media not to show 266 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: any photos that included blood. Sitting through this testimony, victim's 267 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: families are, of course emotional. One family member looks down, 268 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: not wanting to see what comes next. Here again, James 269 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: Filcher don't want to shock the jury, but they also 270 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: don't want to offend the family. There's been some serious 271 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: tension between the media and the family and the prosecution 272 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: that's borne out in some of these motions and some 273 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: of these other things that we're seeing because we think 274 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: everything should be shown. I mean, blood is blood. They're 275 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: bloody crime scenes. This is what happened. You got to 276 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: know how these people died. You got to see it. 277 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: I mean it's part of a murder tribe and there's 278 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: eight victims, all shot multiple times, so it's part of 279 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: the deal. In this same area of the living room, 280 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: you identify that as being on the floor. Did you 281 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: also find what appeared to be blood splatter on the wall? Yes, 282 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: we did. Is there anything that sticks out the year 283 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: with respect to any dructionality of that blood or anything 284 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: like that. First of all, there's a lot of blood 285 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 1: stains on this wall, and in my training that all 286 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: of these stains, from what I see are descending stains, 287 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: which means they are traveling down when they struck this wall. 288 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: Here again, Joseph Scott Morgan, that is an indication of 289 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: a lot of anger, because you would think that anybody 290 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: that was familiar enough with arms that would show up 291 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: in this con environment would also know what kind of 292 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: forces being brought there. With just one shot, you should 293 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: be able to recognize that you don't really need that many. 294 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: But for some reason, the perpetrator found it necessary to 295 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 1: lay into Chris Senior, specifically to make sure that he 296 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: was totally completely eradicated that he would not rise again. 297 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: Tom Dream, how did you take that swab? Where'd you 298 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: submit it to and was that eventually submitted to the 299 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: lab for DNA testing? I believe that eventually it was 300 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: submitted for DNA testing to determine actually which victim's blood 301 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: This was. The swabs from the stain contained in that 302 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: exhibit in the living room of four zero seven seven 303 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: Union Hill Road, also depicted in photo ID number eighteen, 304 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: tested positive for blood and the DNA profile of the 305 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:16,440 Speaker 1: blood from this swab contains Chris Rodent Senior's DNA. One 306 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: family member buries her face in her hands, another covers 307 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: her mouth and wipes weight tears. If Chris Senior was 308 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: still alive lying on the floor, the next bit of 309 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: evidence may explain what happened in the last moments of 310 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: his life. As you were doing your examination of this area, 311 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: did you also find a projectile strike in the floor 312 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: by that rocker recliner? Yes, sir, it was quite some 313 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: time later before I felt that we were at a 314 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: point in our processing and our investigation that I was 315 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: able to move that chair. When we did move the chair, 316 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: that's when it was we noticed that there was a 317 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: bullet hole, or a suspected bullet hole in the floor 318 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: right next to the chair. It appeared that it was 319 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: going from above down. We know that it had came 320 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: from inside going down toward the floor and assumed that 321 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: it may have exited under the mobile home. Todd Fortner 322 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: explains further, and at some point, did you actually use 323 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: rods to try to determine the angle that that bullet 324 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: may have gone through that floor? Yes, it's a fairly 325 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: steep downward angle, so the muzzle of the weapon was 326 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: fairly close. A second hole was found here, and the 327 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: rod then will extend downward through that hole. And did 328 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: you find again that second hole to be in line 329 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: or intrajectory with that first hole that you actuck the 330 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: rod in. Yes? Were you able to track that hole 331 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: through that joyst beneath that trailer, Yes, we were able 332 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: to track it down into the ground. At that point, 333 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: another agent, Durst, crawled under the trailer and recovered one 334 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: of the bullets. What did you notice about that projectile? 335 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: What did anything do? It was a hollow point appeared 336 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: to be a pistol projectile that had not expanded. Basically, 337 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: the way a hollow point bullet works is a softer substance. 338 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: Human tissue is designed to go in and expand those 339 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: metal pedals out in order to create a larger wound. Trick. 340 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan. Most people when they think of a 341 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: bullet projectile, they'll think of what'll refer to as a 342 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: ball ammunition. That's a bullet that kind of has a 343 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: rounded nose on it. That's kind of the traditional image 344 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: that you think about. So, if you have a forty 345 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: caliber round that's being fired out of a weapon, forty 346 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 1: caliber is pretty much what you're going to get with 347 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: ball ammunition that can deform and all those sort of things, 348 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: But the diameter of the round is not going to 349 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: change that much. However, when you start talking about a 350 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: hollow point, what happens is that once that round passes 351 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: out of the end of the muzzle and it winds 352 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: up on this targeted area, these little the only way 353 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: I can really describe it, are these little wings essentially 354 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: kind of deploy. You have a forty caliber round that 355 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: suddenly deploys out upwards of forty five caliber. Fortner explains 356 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: why the bullets they found didn't deploy. If it hits 357 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: something hard for instance, wood, concrete, potentially even bone, before 358 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: hitting enough of a quantity of soft tissue to expand, 359 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: it will basically just dent the front of it and 360 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: it will keep going and it will basically become a 361 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: non hollow point projectile than your knowledge of training experience. 362 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: That I didn't hit like soft tissue. Just the bullets 363 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: themselves kind of speak to you. As a crime scene investigator, 364 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: I do recall something where the actual sequencing of the 365 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: gunfire tells a story this vividly because you get an 366 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: idea of when this horror is just visited upon Chris 367 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: Senior along with Gary, there's an awareness, I think you 368 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: know that the world is kind of blown apart inside 369 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: of this home. His arm was mangled, and so he's 370 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 1: rising in pain on the floor, and then you see 371 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: these other rounds that come from another weapon, and they 372 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: pump them into his body and his life ends right 373 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: there on the floor. Sadly, it seems Gary Roden suffered 374 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: a similarly terrifying end. Agent Henshaw found his glasses and 375 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: baseball cap nearby in the kitchen. Hanshaw opens another envelope 376 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: and pulls out Gary Ruden's bloodstained hat. As you examine 377 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: that a whole or perforation from the outside, did you 378 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: notice any blowout or any frame of that hole on 379 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: the back there that indicated that it was an exit 380 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: wound as opposed to an entrance hole. It appeared to 381 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,719 Speaker 1: be and exit that what I initially thought could be. Okay, well, 382 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: let me ask you this. At some point, did you 383 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: later learn that when that idel is being examined, a 384 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: possible piece of a projectile fell out of it? Yes? 385 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: Were you able to look at that hat and possibly 386 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: track where that bullet had actually come out at the 387 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: front of the hat. At this point, George Wagner's face 388 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: reddens and he clenches his jaw and again, does it 389 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: appear that that area of that hat has been pulled 390 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: or torn or ripped away from the hat? The bill 391 00:25:53,960 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: area there? Yes, sir, it does here again? Investigative reporter 392 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: James Pilcher, followed by medical forensics examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. 393 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: Somebody shot Gary Rode in the back of the head. 394 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 1: The bullet went through his head and then knocked his 395 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: cap off, and the bullet lodged in the bill of 396 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: his cap. Once hell begins to rain down, you know 397 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: where all of this is occurring, the door bust open. 398 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: How did he react at that moment? Top? Was he 399 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: in total shock? Did he have an awareness? Did he 400 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: know that Chris Senior screamed out as his arm was 401 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: kind of blown apart. Did he rush to his side? 402 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: And we don't really know that part, but in my mind, 403 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: I've imagine that, you know, the same person that exerted 404 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: dominance over Chris Senior. Potentially it would have been very easy, 405 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: as Gary is kind of tending to this dear family member, 406 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: is for somebody to have just simply ended his life 407 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: execution style as he stands over him and helps this 408 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: round into the back of his head. Can you tell 409 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: us what we're looking at and where we're headed there 410 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: A two one four, we'ld be standing in this general 411 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,959 Speaker 1: area again as being in the kitchen chairs here, and 412 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: you're beginning to see blood patterns. At some point, did 413 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: you continue to move through that residence back towards the 414 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: back bedroom where the bodies went, Yes, sir, I did. 415 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: He found Chris and Gary at the foot of the 416 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: bed covered in a blanket. After taking photos of the 417 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: entire room, Hanshaw carefully removed the blanket to further document 418 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: the bodies. Can you tell us what's depicted in this 419 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: picture and what you're trying to show? Trying to show 420 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: the original position of the hands of the victim. The victims' 421 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: family members are having an incredibly hard time with the 422 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: graphic photos. Someone allowed them to look up at the 423 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: screen where the photos are being projected. Others weep openly. 424 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: A four fifty once again as a photograph of our 425 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: victim's hand, showing obviously blood and some of the condition 426 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: of the clothing as well. Okay, and when we're talking, 427 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: victim is just the first victim Chris Rodin, Yes, it is. 428 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: When you look at his body position, did you find 429 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: his arms would be up over his head and his 430 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 1: sweatshirt rolled back over his head. Yes. When they got 431 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: to Gary and Chris Senior's bodies to do their examinations, 432 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: their hands were above their heads and their shirts sweatshirts 433 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: were pushed up. Now for us, that's an indication that 434 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: a body has been drug Yes, this would be the 435 00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: arm of Gary Roden, and it extends out out parallel 436 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: with the bed and there's saturation stains or a large 437 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: amount of blood on the exterior of the jacket. In 438 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: that photograph, you can see a lot of blood around 439 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: the mouth and nose, discoloration around the eyes, and then 440 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: what I thought appeared to be a bullet hole near 441 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: the ear. And did you continue to document or get 442 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: closer pictures of what you believed to be a bullet hole, Yes, sir, 443 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: I did. What is the purpose of taking those pictures 444 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: with respect to that body at the sea? I want 445 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,959 Speaker 1: to document this as much as possible. I can't control 446 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: what anybody else does after these bodies are taken out 447 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: of my care or after I'm going, so I want 448 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: to document them as they were, as I found them. 449 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: To essentially settle back and understand. Anything that I do 450 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: with the bodies, I can move it slightly and it 451 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: takes it completely out of context. Was probably direct to 452 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: tell your people to take the bodies out this specific way, 453 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: and you know, when it comes to Chris Senior and Gary, 454 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: that's important. Hanshaw testifies that along with the photographs, his 455 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: team took hundreds of blood sample swabs from the home 456 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: and the bodies of Chris and Gary Rodin. They also 457 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: used what is called a forensic vacuum. Tell the jury 458 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: what a forensic vacuum is and how a forensic vacuum works. 459 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: That's relatively simple. We have a small vacuum that are 460 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: designated for that purpose, and that purpose only would be 461 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: to look for tray seven ens such as hairs fibers, 462 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: anything residual that might have been left behind. From there, 463 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: we would seal that bag and then I normally would 464 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: put that bag in another bag and put my label 465 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: and my signature one. If I'm wearing a mask, a 466 00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: hood and gloves, is that going to impede my DNA 467 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: from going somewhere where you're going to vacuum it up 468 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: with your forensic vacuum. Yes, it can. If Andy Wilson 469 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: drags those bodies to the back of the bedroom and 470 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: I've got gloves on, Am I gonna leave touch DNA 471 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: on this boddies? Most likely not, But you do that 472 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: anyways just in case. Is that correct? Yes, at that 473 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: particular time, you have no idea if a suspect was 474 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: wearing gloves or not wearing gloves. Here's Jeff speaking with 475 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan. Here we are a couple weeks into 476 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: the trial. The prosecution still has this DNA problem. The 477 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: more cases that cover personally, the more I hear this cry, 478 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: you know, from the public, where's the DNA? What's the DNA? 479 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: Jurors walk in and they are expecting DNA and every 480 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: single case and I'm sorry that's not accurate. It's not 481 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: going to happen every single time. You know, if you 482 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,479 Speaker 1: have a barrier between your hand and the surface that 483 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: you placed that hand upon, there is not much of 484 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: an opportunity for you to shed these dead skin cells 485 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: that will have an incomplete strand of DNA in them. 486 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: It makes it difficult for the prosecution. Let's stop here 487 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: for another break. After hours of testimony centered on blood 488 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: and projectile evidence in the home, the prosecution turns to 489 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: Chris Senior's garage and the space above it. Investigator Henshaw 490 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: was initially drawn to the security cameras. We thought it 491 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: appeared as though it were pointing towards the residence. Okay, 492 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: at some point, did that pique your interest to try 493 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: to go find a DVR or recording device that might 494 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: be linked to that, dearmer. Yes, we attempted to look 495 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: for any kind of re recording device that would have 496 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: maybe documented what happened or given us some idea I 497 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: would trace the wires back. They led inside and we 498 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: found nothing, no recording device connected to this system. They 499 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: tested the disconnected wires for DNA in case the perpetrators 500 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: had handled them. There was nothing but the door into 501 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: the building also stood out to Agen Hanshaw. Did you 502 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: examine that door a little more further for other evidence 503 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: or the possibility of evidence. Two things stood out to me. 504 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: One as it appeared as though there was fourth century 505 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: which would be consistent with the door handle lying on 506 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: the upper surface of the porch. And the second thing 507 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: is that appeared to be a transfer, a small transfer 508 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: of blood on the exterior face of that door. This 509 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: doesn't look like a spatter pattern. It looks like a 510 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: transfer pattern. The difference would be a transfer would be 511 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: if I had blood on my hand and I touched 512 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: this paper or something else and then moved it away, 513 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: I probably would leave blood that I transferred from my 514 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: hand onto that surface. Did you eventually take steps to 515 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: identify that according to your BCI numbers and try to 516 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: collect that blood for further testing. Yes, those swabs were 517 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,919 Speaker 1: sent to the lab for testing that stain. Are those 518 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: swabs tested positive for the presence of blood and the 519 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 1: blood contained, and those swabs containing the DNA of Gary Roden. 520 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 1: The defense has a few questions for either of the 521 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 1: BCI agents, but they do offer one final stipulation. When 522 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,439 Speaker 1: things are stipulated to it is an agreement that's entered 523 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: into between defense counsel and prosecution that they will stipulate 524 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: to that bit of evidence that they're not going to argue. 525 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: I'm not going to debate it during this time. The 526 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,800 Speaker 1: parties have another stipulation, all right, put that on the record. 527 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: Then yes, the parties will stipulate and agree that with 528 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: respect to four zero seven seven Union Hill Road, none 529 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 1: of the evidence collected were examined with respect to that 530 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: scene contained any DNA that was linked to George Wagner, 531 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: this defendant, Jake Wagner, Angela Wagner, or Billy Wagner. That's credit. 532 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: That's the voice of Special Prosecutor Andrew Wilson conceding there 533 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: was no DNA evidence linking any of the Wagner family 534 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: to the site where relatives found Chris Roden Senior and 535 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: his cousin Gary dead in April twenty sixteen. There's no 536 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: DNA evidence. People who are not involved in the system, 537 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 1: it's the first thing out of their mouse. Well, do 538 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:05,320 Speaker 1: you have DNA at as well? For me, the shoe 539 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: prints tell everything. We've been using shoeprints for over one 540 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: hundred years now. I mean, it's been accepted in courtrooms 541 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: in a lot of different places as valid science. It 542 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,839 Speaker 1: was a massacre, but it didn't seem as though they 543 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: went back to kind of cover their traces. I think 544 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: they did take a lot of steps, but there's no 545 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: such thing as the perfect crime. The term criminal mastermind 546 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: is kind of anaxi moron because criminals generally aren't masterminds, 547 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: and they often make mistakes which lead to say that conviction, 548 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: and this is one of those examples. More on that 549 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos, 550 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:52,760 Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. The Python 551 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: Masacer is produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, Scott de Grau, 552 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 1: Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and 553 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: sound designed by Jeff Tooi music by Jared Aston. The 554 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 1: Pike Damasacar is a production of iHeart Radio and Katie's Studios. 555 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart 556 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 557 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:27,240 Speaker 1: favorite shows. Please welcome Markite County Dogwood Festival, Queen Lord. 558 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: I just thank you for bringing us all together as 559 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: a community. Okay, haad all over the house. Who could 560 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: have killed eight family members in one night. I lost 561 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: my best friends and I will never be the same 562 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: because of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses. 563 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 1: The killer left those children laying in their mother's blood. 564 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: The word that comes to mind is overkilled. Was the 565 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: last month I'm telling you is a framer. I'm not 566 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:10,240 Speaker 1: fitting in prisons. One thing I learned, the smaller the town, 567 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: the bigger the sacreds. Be sure to watch our upcoming documentary, 568 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: The Pike County Murders of Family Massacre, premiering on NBC 569 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 1: Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on Peacock this Thanksgiving 570 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: Day weekend November twenty fourth and November twenty fifth. Please 571 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: check your local listings and our hearts are with the 572 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: Rodents and the Gilly families.