WEBVTT - The Power of Loving Yourself First

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<v Speaker 1>Hello Sunshine, Hey fam Today on the bright Side, we're

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<v Speaker 1>kicking off a week of love and romance ahead of

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<v Speaker 1>Valentine's Day, and today's show is a must listen. Throw

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<v Speaker 1>out every piece of advice about love you've ever been given,

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<v Speaker 1>because today we're learning how to be our own best life.

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<v Speaker 1>Partner with writer Megan Cain. Her new book Party of

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<v Speaker 1>One is a fearless approach to self love. She'll dish

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<v Speaker 1>on how to shed the stigma of being alone, build

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<v Speaker 1>a life you love, and the power of building community.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Monday, February tenth. I'm Simone Voice, I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from Hello Sunshine.

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<v Speaker 2>On my Mind Monday is brought to you by Lareel Paris.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, Danielle, So what is on your mind? Loven Maris? Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>here's why.

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<v Speaker 2>I read a piece in the Atlantic called America's marriage

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<v Speaker 2>material shortage. Whooh do you think we have one?

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<v Speaker 4>Anecdotally?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, right, My friends and I talk about this all

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<v Speaker 2>the time because it feels like there's not enough good

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<v Speaker 2>men for all the great women we know.

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<v Speaker 3>So but like you said, it's all anecdotal.

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<v Speaker 2>So this article says that a lot of young people

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<v Speaker 2>are not even dating anymore. There's a significant decline in

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<v Speaker 2>youth romance. There's even a decline in twelfth graders dating.

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<v Speaker 2>It's fallen from about eighty five percent in the nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>eighties to less than fifty percent in the twenty twenties.

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<v Speaker 3>What is this shark decline about.

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<v Speaker 2>It can't just be self love, Like love is such

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<v Speaker 2>a human instinct.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what is this about? I mean, the first thing

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<v Speaker 1>that comes to mind for me. I can only think

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<v Speaker 1>about it from a woman's perspective, right, because that's my experience.

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<v Speaker 1>Women are increasingly living bigger and bigger lives and doing

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<v Speaker 1>so outside of the context of a partnership. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>women are postponing child rearing and marriage and all these

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<v Speaker 1>traditional deadlines that society has imposed upon us.

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<v Speaker 3>And I wonder if that's part of it.

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<v Speaker 4>If in that shift.

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<v Speaker 1>Towards these these bigger lives, women are just deprioritizing and

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<v Speaker 1>decentering relationships.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think there's an economic factor here too.

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<v Speaker 2>Women don't really need a partner anymore. But what's interesting is,

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<v Speaker 2>like these studies talk about twelfth graders in general, so

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<v Speaker 2>it's not just women. I don't know it feels like

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<v Speaker 2>the world is really renegotiating what love and relationships look like,

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<v Speaker 2>what marriage looks like. And I think it's an interesting

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<v Speaker 2>topic to think more deeply about as Valentine's Day is approaching,

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<v Speaker 2>when people are really thinking and focusing on love.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, Yes, our guest today is here to flip the script.

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<v Speaker 1>She's offering a different perspective on the way we value relationships,

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<v Speaker 1>and really she's challenging us to rethink everything we know

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<v Speaker 1>about romance, partnership, and love. She's here to remind us

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<v Speaker 1>that the most important relationship we'll ever have, the one

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<v Speaker 1>that shape every other connection, is the one we have

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<v Speaker 1>with ourselves.

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<v Speaker 2>And our guest today just wants to toss out the

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<v Speaker 2>rule book on love. At a time when everyone is

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<v Speaker 2>obsessing over dinner reservations and the perfect Valentine's Day plans,

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<v Speaker 2>She's inviting us to do something completely opposite, to look

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<v Speaker 2>inward and maybe even redefine what love and relationships mean

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<v Speaker 2>and look like.

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<v Speaker 3>Our guest is Megan Kin.

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<v Speaker 1>She's the writer of a book called Party of One,

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<v Speaker 1>Be your own best life Partner, and she's also the

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<v Speaker 1>founder of NPR's Life Kit podcast, which brings listeners advice

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<v Speaker 1>about personal finance, health, and of course, relationships.

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<v Speaker 2>After a couple of really rocking breakups, Megan decided to

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<v Speaker 2>look at her life and approach love completely different. She says,

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<v Speaker 2>it's really important to spend some time alone.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, and what's kind of sweet about her story is

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<v Speaker 1>that she now has a partner. So I'm really curious

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<v Speaker 1>to hear how embracing this idea ended up leading her

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<v Speaker 1>to potentially the love of her life. Danielle, I know

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<v Speaker 1>you had a wonderful conversation with her, and I'm really

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<v Speaker 1>excited to hear.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely my conversation with Megan Kin right after the break

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks to our partners at Lorel Paris, because you're worth it.

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<v Speaker 3>Megan, Welcome to the bright Side.

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<v Speaker 4>Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so excited to talk to you today, not just

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<v Speaker 2>because I'm single, but also because you were on a

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<v Speaker 2>mission to challenge popular conventions about love and relationships, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think that this message is so needed in our culture.

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<v Speaker 2>Inciting makes us feel that we have to be in

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<v Speaker 2>a relationship to feel complete, and you're saying it's okay

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<v Speaker 2>to be single. What made you want to challenge the

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<v Speaker 2>conventional ideology around relationships and love?

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<v Speaker 3>Why take this on?

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<v Speaker 5>Well, in my mid to late twenties, I was thinking

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<v Speaker 5>a lot about how I didn't have a boyfriend, how

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<v Speaker 5>I had been in a serious relationship. And now, of

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<v Speaker 5>course I've had plenty of different types of relationships. I

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<v Speaker 5>had friendships, I had relationships with mentors and coaches and

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<v Speaker 5>all these other people in my life, but of course

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<v Speaker 5>what culture puts on a pedestal is the romantic relationship.

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<v Speaker 5>So I was really in my head about what that meant.

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<v Speaker 5>And even though I knew that being on your own

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<v Speaker 5>was very valid, there was nothing to be ashamed of it.

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<v Speaker 5>I had a hard time bridging my head in my heart.

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<v Speaker 5>I wanted to kind of slow things down and understand

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<v Speaker 5>where exactly this pressure was coming from, even though I

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<v Speaker 5>knew about it, How do I actually start to feel

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<v Speaker 5>in my body that I could take down the pressure

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<v Speaker 5>and have a calm no matter what my relationship status

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<v Speaker 5>would be.

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<v Speaker 2>I actually think that your late twenties are often the

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<v Speaker 2>time where you start thinking about that because you've had

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<v Speaker 2>maybe some good relationships, some bad relationships, some people none

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<v Speaker 2>at all, and you start really taking stock. I'm curious

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<v Speaker 2>how things like movies and books and romance novels sort

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<v Speaker 2>of impacted your view on these relationships. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>Absolutely so. I'm an elder millennial.

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<v Speaker 5>So I came up in the Disney you know, renaissance

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<v Speaker 5>of you know, the Little Mermaid beating the Beast, and

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<v Speaker 5>you know, of course there's so much good social criticism

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<v Speaker 5>about why those are flowed. Right, I'm not making anything

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<v Speaker 5>new here, of course, it's like your princess that needs

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<v Speaker 5>to be saved, and then the rest of your life

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<v Speaker 5>starts at this like adult coronation of a wedding, right,

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<v Speaker 5>and then again after that, good luck.

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<v Speaker 4>We don't know really what happens to you after that.

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<v Speaker 5>And you know, but I think by the time I

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<v Speaker 5>got to middle school, high school, I knew I didn't

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<v Speaker 5>want to be a princess.

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<v Speaker 4>I was like, that's not me. I'm independent.

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<v Speaker 5>But then like even movies like the kind of like

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<v Speaker 5>team rom coms of the early two thousands that were

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<v Speaker 5>so based on like you're a loser if you're you know,

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<v Speaker 5>pursuing art, like Rachel Lee Cook and you know, shoes

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<v Speaker 5>all that and have like glasses in a ponytail that

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<v Speaker 5>if you are somehow not conforming to the absolute norm,

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<v Speaker 5>you're seen as an outcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you remember the moment you realize no one was

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<v Speaker 2>coming to save you.

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<v Speaker 4>I think pretty early in my twenties, I.

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<v Speaker 5>Would say I had like needed someone that was like

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<v Speaker 5>my friend's realm me, you know how it is in

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<v Speaker 5>your early twenties. And we went on like a handful

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<v Speaker 5>of dates, if you could even call them that.

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<v Speaker 4>Like, it was all very like unclear, and I could.

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<v Speaker 5>Tell he was starting to really distance himself and maybe

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<v Speaker 5>not really fully goes me because we had mutual friends,

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<v Speaker 5>but be like, this is not happening anymore. And I

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<v Speaker 5>remember sitting on the floor of my kitchen like just crying,

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<v Speaker 5>and I was like, I know, breakup suck.

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<v Speaker 4>Is this even a breakup?

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 4>There was no labels, but I was like.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh, I can't depend on other people to make me

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<v Speaker 5>feel a certain way, because if anyone's ever done a

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<v Speaker 5>group project, working with other people or depending on other

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<v Speaker 5>people to achieve a goal can be very hard. So

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<v Speaker 5>I think that was the beginning seeds of like I

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<v Speaker 5>need to figure out how this works in my life,

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<v Speaker 5>in my body, in my psyche, so I can feel

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<v Speaker 5>at least stable, not even just good, I would say,

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<v Speaker 5>like stable.

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<v Speaker 2>As horrible as breakups are, you know, I don't wish

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<v Speaker 2>them on my worst enemy. You are broken open in

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<v Speaker 2>a way that I think there's so much room for

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<v Speaker 2>incredible growth and self reflection. Would you categorize your relationships

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<v Speaker 2>as having been good or bad?

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<v Speaker 3>Or where do you see them?

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<v Speaker 5>When I look back up my relationships in my twenties

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<v Speaker 5>that I write about in the book, I would not

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<v Speaker 5>call them bad.

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<v Speaker 4>I was not showing up authentically in them. I thought

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<v Speaker 4>I was because I was.

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<v Speaker 5>Feeling like myself in those relationships and that I had chemistry,

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<v Speaker 5>because there is such an emphasis when you're dating on

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<v Speaker 5>your chemistry in chemistry's important, right, Like you want to

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<v Speaker 5>feel that you know that sparkin that flow with someone.

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<v Speaker 5>But I think I thought chemistry alone would take me far.

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<v Speaker 5>And what I didn't realize was I had to I

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<v Speaker 5>was silencing myself in a lot of ways where I

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<v Speaker 5>was not saying, actually, I don't like it when we

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<v Speaker 5>interact in this way, or why did we have this fight,

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<v Speaker 5>like that's it's weird to me, or do you even

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<v Speaker 5>want kids?

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<v Speaker 4>Like even but like I'm trying to figure it out

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<v Speaker 4>myself too.

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<v Speaker 5>We need to figure that out if we're getting past

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<v Speaker 5>a certain point, because I need to know one way

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<v Speaker 5>or the other.

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<v Speaker 4>And so I don't think they were bad and necessarily in.

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<v Speaker 5>Terms of relationship, I wasn't my full authentic self in

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<v Speaker 5>them because I was so conditioned like some many of

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<v Speaker 5>us are, to just see, hey, you check the box.

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<v Speaker 4>Great, Now shut up. You're in a relationship. And that's so.

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<v Speaker 5>Unfortunate because in the best case scenario it was, you know,

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<v Speaker 5>for me that like nothing really necessarily bad, cap But

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<v Speaker 5>in the worst case is that you say, with that

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<v Speaker 5>person for a very long time or something much darker happens. Right,

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<v Speaker 5>So it's not to say this is anyone's fault necessarily,

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<v Speaker 5>But looking back on those relationships, I'm glad that they happen.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm glad they're in the rearview mirror.

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<v Speaker 2>You mentioned in your book that you feel like you

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<v Speaker 2>were part of this rare club in your twenties.

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<v Speaker 3>What does that mean.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so it really feels like between singles and those relationships,

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<v Speaker 5>there's like this like kind of like divide right where

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<v Speaker 5>you're like, if you're single, like you're in a waiting

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<v Speaker 5>room almost, and then like through this door, this magical

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<v Speaker 5>door is the club of couple people, right. And once

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<v Speaker 5>I crossed that threshold, I had this ugly confidence about

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<v Speaker 5>what it meant to be in a relationship. I felt

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<v Speaker 5>very proud and kind of like, look at us for

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<v Speaker 5>holding each other's hands in public. I'm in a relationship,

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<v Speaker 5>like kind of very performative and like not really focusing

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<v Speaker 5>on again, things that are actually important in a relationship,

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<v Speaker 5>just kind of showing off the sense of a relationship

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<v Speaker 5>for folks. And the club felt like, you know, it's

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<v Speaker 5>exactly that, it's an exclusion you know, it's an exclusionary right.

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<v Speaker 5>Clubs are inherently closed off. And what I begin to

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<v Speaker 5>see is like we don't service anybody when we think

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<v Speaker 5>about singles versus married people. Right, So when we turn

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<v Speaker 5>down the pressure on what it means to be single,

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<v Speaker 5>when we destigmatize what it means to be single, I

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<v Speaker 5>think what it does is it has an interesting impact

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<v Speaker 5>on couples, because what it does is it shows couples, hey,

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<v Speaker 5>I can think about my own personhood within a relationship.

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<v Speaker 5>I can think about how single people are part of

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<v Speaker 5>my community who would have thought right, and then those

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<v Speaker 5>single people feel like treated better by people who are

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<v Speaker 5>coupled off in their life.

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<v Speaker 4>So there's less of this like versus each.

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<v Speaker 5>Other kind of dynamic, and I think a more colistic

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<v Speaker 5>community can come into play.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm really interested and something that you write about in

0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.920
<v Speaker 2>your book called the haze, and you say that it

0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.400
<v Speaker 2>contributes to the way that we see relationships. What is

0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:09.440
<v Speaker 2>the haze and how does it play out in the

0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:11.640
<v Speaker 2>way that we think about what we should want?

0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:16.559
<v Speaker 5>So the Hayes is my metaphor for all the societal

0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.600
<v Speaker 5>messages that we receive that can really engulf us and

0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:24.440
<v Speaker 5>make us think that that's our whole reality. Right, Like,

0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:28.600
<v Speaker 5>think about driving like a car through fog. It feels like, ah,

0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:30.760
<v Speaker 5>you can't even see two feet in front of you,

0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:32.360
<v Speaker 5>and it feels suffocating.

0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.640
<v Speaker 4>But when reality on the other side of that fog,

0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:36.520
<v Speaker 4>when you drive out.

0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:40.040
<v Speaker 5>Of the haze and the clouds, you see so much

0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.160
<v Speaker 5>around you, like the world gets bigger again, right, And

0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.200
<v Speaker 5>I was trying to think of something that really felt like,

0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:52.520
<v Speaker 5>something that doesn't necessarily feel that invasive or harmful but

0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:54.760
<v Speaker 5>it kind of does envelop you and sneak up on

0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:58.800
<v Speaker 5>you and literally clouds your judgment about.

0:12:58.400 --> 0:12:59.720
<v Speaker 4>What you want.

0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.000
<v Speaker 5>I think what I chose the metaphor of the Hayes

0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:05.280
<v Speaker 5>is because you can always kind of like poke your

0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.680
<v Speaker 5>head out if you want, right, all you have to

0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:09.600
<v Speaker 5>do is be aware of it, like the kind of

0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.160
<v Speaker 5>classic therapy talk of name entertainment.

0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:12.520
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.760
<v Speaker 5>And so for me, the Hayes is it's just exactly

0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.480
<v Speaker 5>how I felt, was like I feel consumed by all

0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.640
<v Speaker 5>these messages that are telling me you need to have

0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.080
<v Speaker 5>a relationship, you need to have a romantic relationship, you

0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.320
<v Speaker 5>need to get married, without me thinking for myself, well

0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:30.400
<v Speaker 5>what do I actually want?

0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:31.560
<v Speaker 4>Even if I do want.

0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.480
<v Speaker 5>To have a partner and get married, what does that

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:35.920
<v Speaker 5>actually look like to me? Not what everyone else is

0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.800
<v Speaker 5>telling me? And the whole process of the book was

0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.240
<v Speaker 5>kind of just picking off that haze and like stepping

0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:46.000
<v Speaker 5>through and out of it so I could think, Okay,

0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:47.080
<v Speaker 5>what do I actually want?

0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:48.840
<v Speaker 4>Not just what is right in front of me?

0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.760
<v Speaker 2>How did you step out of it? Was it therapy?

0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.880
<v Speaker 2>Did you ask yourself questions? Definitely a lot of therapy.

0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.200
<v Speaker 5>I think what it was the mission for me in

0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:02.440
<v Speaker 5>this book too, Again was really how do I internalize

0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.480
<v Speaker 5>these messages of living day to day of it's okay

0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.840
<v Speaker 5>to be single, because again I knew intellectually that was

0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.559
<v Speaker 5>the case, but sometimes you just feel sad, right because

0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.760
<v Speaker 5>you feel sad? And I had to think about what

0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.920
<v Speaker 5>was making me over the top upset, and what I

0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:22.920
<v Speaker 5>kept coming back to was shame.

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:24.160
<v Speaker 4>Was the shame that was.

0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:28.920
<v Speaker 5>Being layered onto feeling frustration or upset or that date

0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:33.240
<v Speaker 5>didn't go well, or man, I thought this was promising.

0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:35.920
<v Speaker 5>We had five dates, it's not great, and then damn,

0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:37.120
<v Speaker 5>like everything just.

0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:38.040
<v Speaker 4>Bought himed out from me.

0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.920
<v Speaker 5>And when in fact, you can just focus on I

0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.560
<v Speaker 5>feel sad because I feel sad, you can really boil

0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.280
<v Speaker 5>it down because the layer of shame that gets kind

0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.000
<v Speaker 5>of vacillined over all of the rest of that is

0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:54.760
<v Speaker 5>the thing that actually is creating the upset. I was

0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:56.920
<v Speaker 5>thinking a lot about how I also like live in

0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.680
<v Speaker 5>my head right, how we all do, and the kind

0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.680
<v Speaker 5>of story I was telling myself, and how I could

0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:05.760
<v Speaker 5>you know, rain those back in to get down to reality.

0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.360
<v Speaker 2>My best friend from college just said something so similar.

0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:13.320
<v Speaker 2>We were at dinner the other night and she's thirty three.

0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:16.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm thirty four, and she was like, can you believe

0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.800
<v Speaker 2>this is our life? Like I never thought we would

0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:22.280
<v Speaker 2>both all three of us were sitting there, single, and

0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.280
<v Speaker 2>she was like, the weird part is that I'm having

0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:27.400
<v Speaker 2>this dissonance that I'm actually the happiest I've ever been.

0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:30.760
<v Speaker 2>I wake up really happy, really self assured. I have

0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:33.760
<v Speaker 2>a career, I like, I have friends, I love. I

0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.720
<v Speaker 2>don't necessarily feel like I need this thing, and yet

0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I need this thing.

0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:42.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I know, because the conditioning is very, very strong.

0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:43.960
<v Speaker 4>I think it is.

0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:48.240
<v Speaker 5>Great to see that there is such a wave of

0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:52.600
<v Speaker 5>support for platonic love and you know, really appreciating all

0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.160
<v Speaker 5>the different types of love in one's life. There's this

0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:57.320
<v Speaker 5>Harvard study that I write about. It's like one of

0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:03.080
<v Speaker 5>the longest studies on human development. And they tracked like

0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.360
<v Speaker 5>something like seven hundred men over like decades and decades,

0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:12.400
<v Speaker 5>and they watched their relationships, their work, their health, all

0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 5>these their hobbies, all these different factors.

0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:15.800
<v Speaker 4>And one of the biggest things that came out.

0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.480
<v Speaker 5>Of the study was the key to live happier and

0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:22.640
<v Speaker 5>healthier is to have good relationships of all kinds. They

0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:27.600
<v Speaker 5>didn't single out romance or marriage as the magic bullet, right,

0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:29.800
<v Speaker 5>it was all kinds.

0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:30.600
<v Speaker 4>Of all different levels.

0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, as we think about happiness and look to find

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.200
<v Speaker 2>our own happiness or live within the happiness we have

0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.720
<v Speaker 2>right now, you stress that the validation we're looking for.

0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:44.040
<v Speaker 3>Comes from us, not from another person.

0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.800
<v Speaker 2>What do you think is one thing that we can

0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.680
<v Speaker 2>do for ourselves to start practicing that mindset.

0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 4>I'm a really big fan of values. I know I've

0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:55.240
<v Speaker 4>mentioned a few times here.

0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:59.720
<v Speaker 5>I think what helps turn down the pressure for yourself

0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:04.320
<v Speaker 5>about needing a relationship or like you feel like your

0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:07.199
<v Speaker 5>life can't start until you have a relationship, is to

0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:11.639
<v Speaker 5>get really clear about what values you have to certain goals.

0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:13.480
<v Speaker 5>Because the thing about a goal is that it's automatically

0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:15.639
<v Speaker 5>past fail right. Yes, if you are trying to be

0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:19.199
<v Speaker 5>married and that's a goal, well that you're either a

0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.200
<v Speaker 5>failure right up until you get married, and then you're

0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:24.680
<v Speaker 5>technically a success, and then even that feels like a

0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:25.800
<v Speaker 5>little backwards.

0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Right right, And then is divorce a failure or is

0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.520
<v Speaker 2>it a success of however many years in the life you.

0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.359
<v Speaker 5>Built exactly it's so fraught and like I think, not

0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.560
<v Speaker 5>very helpful, so totally what you could do is think

0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.040
<v Speaker 5>about what values you have underneath that. Well, maybe it's

0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:42.760
<v Speaker 5>you really value community, right, you want to you want

0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.760
<v Speaker 5>you like family. Once you see those values, you can

0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.560
<v Speaker 5>be a lot more flexible about how those things are expressed.

0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:53.359
<v Speaker 5>And I think when you give yourself flexibility about how

0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:57.480
<v Speaker 5>you show up for yourself and what you want out

0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:01.000
<v Speaker 5>of life, the world is going to open up so

0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.640
<v Speaker 5>much more than if you think I only need this

0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.240
<v Speaker 5>type of relationship I need to have, you know it.

0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:08.920
<v Speaker 4>Also when it comes to career, I need this exact

0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:09.280
<v Speaker 4>type of.

0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.280
<v Speaker 5>Job, right, Like, so many things are out of your

0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.040
<v Speaker 5>control about those things.

0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.760
<v Speaker 4>Whereas if you can think, okay, well I.

0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:21.280
<v Speaker 5>Really value creativity, right, Like, you don't necessarily have to

0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.520
<v Speaker 5>wait to get into a certain MFA program and then

0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:26.280
<v Speaker 5>pay a lot of money out of pocket to like

0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:30.240
<v Speaker 5>get an expensive degree. You could start an accountability group,

0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.360
<v Speaker 5>or you write together with friends, right, or you get

0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.600
<v Speaker 5>together to draw. Like there's I think just like kind

0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 5>of shrinking down to a smaller scale what your values

0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:44.719
<v Speaker 5>are can show you all these different paths about creating

0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:45.360
<v Speaker 5>a ridge.

0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.560
<v Speaker 3>Life that makes absolute sense.

0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.840
<v Speaker 2>So you debunk some really compelling myths about marriage and

0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.000
<v Speaker 2>love and there's a few that I love.

0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:55.359
<v Speaker 3>One is that marriage has always been for love.

0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.760
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's something I think we all know intellectually when

0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.560
<v Speaker 5>we watch like I don't know, like thrones or anything

0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.199
<v Speaker 5>that takes place in like the distant past. We know

0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:09.200
<v Speaker 5>that marriages are often a tool for politics and power

0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.320
<v Speaker 5>and money, right, and have been for a long time.

0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:17.080
<v Speaker 4>But we think we're very evolved and that it's you know, marriage.

0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.600
<v Speaker 5>Is only for love, But we forget that it was

0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:23.320
<v Speaker 5>a kind of recent ish invention to marry for love.

0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:26.720
<v Speaker 5>This idea that love is the only reason we marry

0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:30.560
<v Speaker 5>is relatively new, and so you know, especially in American

0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:34.400
<v Speaker 5>and Western life, romantic love and moderate or in love

0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.600
<v Speaker 5>marriages as they're called, didn't really come about until like

0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:41.600
<v Speaker 5>the Victorian era. This interesting thing happens in the Victorian ERAa,

0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:45.560
<v Speaker 5>where the Industrial Revolution meant that you could leave your

0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.879
<v Speaker 5>families farm right and create get a living wage outside

0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.119
<v Speaker 5>of your family. You didn't have to worry about marrying

0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.719
<v Speaker 5>into another family as the main way to combine and

0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:58.879
<v Speaker 5>gain resources. You could actually be a little bit more independent.

0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:02.400
<v Speaker 5>And so I think that plus kind of pop culture

0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.440
<v Speaker 5>sensibilities kind of made it so that love marriages kind

0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:07.960
<v Speaker 5>of became the new thing. And then there's this also

0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.200
<v Speaker 5>this fascinating idea about how this.

0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.320
<v Speaker 4>Idea of traditional marriage.

0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.359
<v Speaker 5>Traditional two of course, you know, is how it was

0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:16.080
<v Speaker 5>always meant to be that kind of leave it to

0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:18.960
<v Speaker 5>Beaver style type of marriage, where we have the nineteen

0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:21.399
<v Speaker 5>fifties housewife at home with the two kids in the

0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:25.040
<v Speaker 5>white pig defense husband goes off. But what was so

0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:28.000
<v Speaker 5>helpful to learn from this historian symphony Coots is that

0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.320
<v Speaker 5>was actually a complete blip in the timeline of marriage,

0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:34.320
<v Speaker 5>especially in America. It was right after World War Two,

0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:36.200
<v Speaker 5>when wages were actually pretty.

0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:38.760
<v Speaker 4>High and men were coming home for war and there

0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:40.399
<v Speaker 4>could be one breadwinner at the home.

0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.960
<v Speaker 5>And actually women were getting married at a slightly younger

0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.280
<v Speaker 5>age around the nineteen fifties than they were even sixty

0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:49.600
<v Speaker 5>years prior. And I think it's really telling that from

0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:54.240
<v Speaker 5>nineteen sixty on in America the age of a first

0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.120
<v Speaker 5>marriage has steadily gone up. It has not gone down

0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.720
<v Speaker 5>since that time in the fifties. So it's a good

0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:02.840
<v Speaker 5>remind that what we think of as quote unquote traditional

0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.479
<v Speaker 5>is never that, it is always evolving. In fact, that

0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.800
<v Speaker 5>very specific view of marriage was such a small timeline

0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:12.400
<v Speaker 5>in the history of marriage, and I think knowing that

0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:16.760
<v Speaker 5>is really powerful because it is marriage and how we

0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:19.560
<v Speaker 5>love and decide a partner is always evolving and changing

0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:21.159
<v Speaker 5>and bumping up against structures.

0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:24.879
<v Speaker 4>It is not a vacuum.

0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:27.119
<v Speaker 2>We have to take another short break, but we'll be

0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:28.520
<v Speaker 2>back in just a minute.

0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:39.440
<v Speaker 3>Don't go anywhere, and we're back.

0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.879
<v Speaker 2>So you really advocate for taking yourself out on dates,

0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:48.080
<v Speaker 2>and I have to tell you, the want to do

0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:49.280
<v Speaker 2>that run the gamut.

0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:51.040
<v Speaker 3>Some people love it.

0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.080
<v Speaker 2>And they're so good at going to a restaurant by themselves.

0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:57.040
<v Speaker 2>Some people are like, hell, no, I would never do that.

0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:00.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm okay going to a restaurant by myself. I don't

0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:02.320
<v Speaker 2>know if I don't go to a movie by myself.

0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:03.440
<v Speaker 4>Oh that's interesting.

0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:07.120
<v Speaker 5>I feel like the thing about dining alone is that's

0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:09.800
<v Speaker 5>almost like the quote unquote most vulnerable. I don't necessarily

0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:11.919
<v Speaker 5>agree with that, but I find most people like have that.

0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:14.160
<v Speaker 5>For me, I loved going to the movies by myself

0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:16.040
<v Speaker 5>because you don't have to talk with anybody.

0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:17.960
<v Speaker 2>You just sell us staring at a screen. You know

0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:20.240
<v Speaker 2>that's true. Yeah, And you get the snacks you want.

0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:21.800
<v Speaker 2>There's no compromise. Well.

0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:24.240
<v Speaker 5>One thing to always remember too, is like I've never

0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:26.679
<v Speaker 5>been out in the world and saw someone just on

0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:28.639
<v Speaker 5>their own and thought, oh my god, they're so sad.

0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:30.240
<v Speaker 5>It doesn't even cross my mind.

0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:32.200
<v Speaker 3>I kind of look at them and think, oh, they're

0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:32.840
<v Speaker 3>so awesome.

0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:36.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, exactly, So like you could be that awesome person too.

0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:37.480
<v Speaker 4>So I love taking.

0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:39.880
<v Speaker 5>Myself to the movies, I love reading in public. I'm

0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:41.520
<v Speaker 5>going to go out because I'm a creative person.

0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:42.520
<v Speaker 4>I need more input.

0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:44.359
<v Speaker 5>This is the idea of the artist state, is like

0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:47.720
<v Speaker 5>giving yourself more input for your creativity. So that could

0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:51.200
<v Speaker 5>be going to a arts and supply store just seeing

0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:53.600
<v Speaker 5>what they have new they're browsing, doing that, go into

0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:57.520
<v Speaker 5>a bookstore by yourself, going to a museum exhibit by yourself.

0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:01.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh I like a museum alone. There's this really interesting

0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:04.200
<v Speaker 2>statistic that I want to ask you about. According to

0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:08.399
<v Speaker 2>a twenty twenty three US Surgeon General's Advisory, half of

0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:13.120
<v Speaker 2>US adults reported some measurable loneliness. Yeah, but you say,

0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:17.520
<v Speaker 2>there's a big difference between loneliness and being alone. This

0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:21.080
<v Speaker 2>is a topic that is close to my heart. First

0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:23.879
<v Speaker 2>of all, what is the difference between loneliness and being alone.

0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:26.120
<v Speaker 5>Well, you know it's interesting too because in that same

0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:30.159
<v Speaker 5>Surgeon General's advisory about loneliness, they even point to the

0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:34.600
<v Speaker 5>idea of alone versus lonely that like chronic loneliness poses

0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:37.159
<v Speaker 5>serious health threats, there is no getting around that that

0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:41.240
<v Speaker 5>is an epidemic, but adoptive loneliness and like basically being

0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:44.600
<v Speaker 5>I don't know a human that said, sometimes feel alone

0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:47.760
<v Speaker 5>can be either helpful and be even.

0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:48.680
<v Speaker 4>Restorative at times.

0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:51.439
<v Speaker 5>I know that sounds a little counterintuitive, but here's what

0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:53.720
<v Speaker 5>I mean by that. The difference between alone and lonely

0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:57.080
<v Speaker 5>is alone is just the state of being alone. I'm

0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:00.600
<v Speaker 5>alone in my apartment, safe for my tiny barkie, but

0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:03.080
<v Speaker 5>I don't feel lonely because I'm connecting with you. Because

0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:06.439
<v Speaker 5>loneliness is when you're dissatisfied with the state of being alone.

0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:10.359
<v Speaker 5>And so I think that distinction is helpful because there's

0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:13.679
<v Speaker 5>plenty of times I feel alone but not lonely.

0:24:13.720 --> 0:24:15.679
<v Speaker 4>But there's also times where I'm around other.

0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:18.679
<v Speaker 5>People and I feel lonely, right like people who I

0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:22.359
<v Speaker 5>don't really connect with, or I feel like maybe an

0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:25.679
<v Speaker 5>outsider in some way, And so I think it helps

0:24:25.840 --> 0:24:27.080
<v Speaker 5>give us more.

0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:29.800
<v Speaker 4>Language about what we actually need in those moments.

0:24:30.160 --> 0:24:32.680
<v Speaker 5>But the problem with loneliness is that we get stuck

0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:35.280
<v Speaker 5>in a spiral and sometimes it is hard to get

0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:37.439
<v Speaker 5>out of that. We see other things as threats, Like

0:24:37.480 --> 0:24:39.480
<v Speaker 5>when you do feel lonely and you see that couple

0:24:39.520 --> 0:24:42.199
<v Speaker 5>holding hands walking down the stair, you're like cursing up

0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:44.000
<v Speaker 5>a storm in your head, like there's always all these

0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:45.760
<v Speaker 5>couples for in another day that might not cost your

0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:48.480
<v Speaker 5>mind at all. Right, So I think that helps just

0:24:48.520 --> 0:24:51.320
<v Speaker 5>destigmatize what it means to be lonely. If this is

0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:54.760
<v Speaker 5>such an epidemic, I think it gives us the tools

0:24:54.800 --> 0:24:56.959
<v Speaker 5>to say, oh, I noticed something is changing.

0:24:57.040 --> 0:24:59.560
<v Speaker 4>I'm feeling lonely. I should make plans for this weekend

0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:01.760
<v Speaker 4>and I look forward to I should text her friend.

0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:03.919
<v Speaker 5>I should just call this friend. I should check on

0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:05.800
<v Speaker 5>in my mom. You know, I've friend who's going through

0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:08.640
<v Speaker 5>a hard time. Maybe I can like make them cookies

0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:11.360
<v Speaker 5>or something. And then, you know, all these things that

0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:14.280
<v Speaker 5>how can even happen in a state of being alone

0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:17.320
<v Speaker 5>can help feed that sense of connection. So you can

0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:20.680
<v Speaker 5>nurture that sense of connection even if you're on your

0:25:20.680 --> 0:25:21.040
<v Speaker 5>own that.

0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:25.040
<v Speaker 2>Day, I'm going to share a story my whole job

0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:28.720
<v Speaker 2>in Ethos is really around connection. A few months ago,

0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:31.320
<v Speaker 2>I started with a new therapist because my therapist who

0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:33.720
<v Speaker 2>I love retired. We were just a few sessions in,

0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:37.160
<v Speaker 2>so she's starting to get to know me. And I

0:25:37.200 --> 0:25:39.320
<v Speaker 2>was dating this guy and I was like, do I

0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:40.080
<v Speaker 2>break up with him?

0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:42.320
<v Speaker 3>Do I not? And she said, well, what's the fear.

0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:45.120
<v Speaker 2>I closed my eyes and I like put my hand

0:25:45.119 --> 0:25:48.240
<v Speaker 2>on my heart, and I said, it's loneliness. I think

0:25:48.280 --> 0:25:52.679
<v Speaker 2>I have a core fear of loneliness because when I

0:25:52.720 --> 0:25:56.040
<v Speaker 2>think about the saddest moments of my life, they are

0:25:56.040 --> 0:25:59.840
<v Speaker 2>when I was lonely. And she goes, well, that's so

0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:05.119
<v Speaker 2>interesting because you've built a whole career around connection. And

0:26:05.200 --> 0:26:10.159
<v Speaker 2>I realized that we're all sort of like chasing whatever.

0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:14.359
<v Speaker 2>That core wound is mine was loneliness, and I've really

0:26:14.440 --> 0:26:17.800
<v Speaker 2>worked on it, and I think there are ways that

0:26:17.840 --> 0:26:20.960
<v Speaker 2>you can be alone and not feel lonely. But it's

0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:23.680
<v Speaker 2>about meeting your emotional needs, yes, and no one else

0:26:23.760 --> 0:26:25.399
<v Speaker 2>is going to meet them for you. If you're in

0:26:25.440 --> 0:26:28.440
<v Speaker 2>a relationship, it's a band aid to that exactly.

0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:31.600
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, as I was writing this book, I mentioned I

0:26:31.680 --> 0:26:34.840
<v Speaker 5>got into a serious relationship and it was really interesting

0:26:34.840 --> 0:26:37.119
<v Speaker 5>too in the process of writing the book, having that

0:26:37.200 --> 0:26:39.800
<v Speaker 5>happened because I was like, oh, yeah, I'm still anxious.

0:26:39.840 --> 0:26:42.159
<v Speaker 5>I'm just anxious about different things now. Like you know,

0:26:42.240 --> 0:26:44.480
<v Speaker 5>as supportive and as wonderful as my partner is, he

0:26:44.600 --> 0:26:47.400
<v Speaker 5>can't process my emotions for me, and I can't process

0:26:47.400 --> 0:26:48.200
<v Speaker 5>his emotions.

0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:51.640
<v Speaker 4>And I think understanding the.

0:26:51.640 --> 0:26:56.000
<v Speaker 5>Tools that we have to regulate not to necessarily be

0:26:56.240 --> 0:26:59.120
<v Speaker 5>happy all the time, because that's not the goal and

0:26:59.359 --> 0:27:02.400
<v Speaker 5>not really possis the belever to understand how to ride

0:27:02.440 --> 0:27:07.560
<v Speaker 5>the waves this real emotional maturity and safety. Then that

0:27:07.680 --> 0:27:11.480
<v Speaker 5>helps you make better decisions about should I stay with

0:27:11.520 --> 0:27:13.680
<v Speaker 5>this person, should I, should I continue dating.

0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:14.679
<v Speaker 4>Them, or should we part ways?

0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:18.240
<v Speaker 5>Because when you're acting out of fear, you're not acting

0:27:18.240 --> 0:27:21.720
<v Speaker 5>from a place always that is from a place of reality,

0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:22.760
<v Speaker 5>not always.

0:27:23.119 --> 0:27:25.920
<v Speaker 3>I think that you're acting out of need instead of want.

0:27:26.119 --> 0:27:28.240
<v Speaker 4>Yes, exactly, Yeah.

0:27:28.040 --> 0:27:30.320
<v Speaker 2>I think this idea is so interesting that you can

0:27:30.359 --> 0:27:33.000
<v Speaker 2>be in a relationship and still not be attending to

0:27:33.040 --> 0:27:35.359
<v Speaker 2>some of your core needs. For anyone who is in

0:27:35.400 --> 0:27:39.480
<v Speaker 2>a relationship, how can they embrace some of the principles

0:27:39.680 --> 0:27:42.000
<v Speaker 2>of the party of one in their life?

0:27:42.760 --> 0:27:43.400
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely?

0:27:43.600 --> 0:27:47.640
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, So I would say making sure that you it's

0:27:47.640 --> 0:27:50.120
<v Speaker 5>not even just alone time. I do advocate for that.

0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:53.399
<v Speaker 5>I think making sure you have hobbies that you like

0:27:53.480 --> 0:27:55.479
<v Speaker 5>that are just for you. You don't have to do

0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:59.320
<v Speaker 5>every single free activity with your partner, and kind of

0:27:59.480 --> 0:28:02.640
<v Speaker 5>romantic those things that feel good that are just for you.

0:28:02.800 --> 0:28:04.359
<v Speaker 4>I love those walks because.

0:28:04.119 --> 0:28:06.280
<v Speaker 5>It's very a time where I can be really internal,

0:28:06.480 --> 0:28:07.320
<v Speaker 5>connect with nature.

0:28:08.560 --> 0:28:10.480
<v Speaker 4>I get to walk as faster as slow as I want.

0:28:10.560 --> 0:28:13.280
<v Speaker 5>Right, So I would say, find the activities that feel

0:28:13.320 --> 0:28:16.040
<v Speaker 5>really special to you and make you feel like yourself

0:28:16.480 --> 0:28:17.600
<v Speaker 5>and hold on to those.

0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:18.720
<v Speaker 4>Also, just like.

0:28:18.720 --> 0:28:21.439
<v Speaker 5>Learning to tolerate your own emotions, thinking about how you

0:28:21.480 --> 0:28:24.359
<v Speaker 5>can self soothe, and then also come to a partner

0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:25.960
<v Speaker 5>and be like, hey, I went through this hard time,

0:28:26.440 --> 0:28:28.840
<v Speaker 5>thinking through this through like here's how what I need

0:28:28.880 --> 0:28:32.159
<v Speaker 5>your support. And then I would say the thing that

0:28:32.200 --> 0:28:34.800
<v Speaker 5>will be additive, and it's definitely been additive in my

0:28:34.920 --> 0:28:39.360
<v Speaker 5>relationship is to practice what I preach is bring in

0:28:39.400 --> 0:28:42.280
<v Speaker 5>my single friends into my life where I'm making sure

0:28:42.320 --> 0:28:44.680
<v Speaker 5>I'm making time for just them, that my partner isn't

0:28:44.680 --> 0:28:48.400
<v Speaker 5>always tagging along. Having different types of events. Also, we

0:28:48.440 --> 0:28:51.000
<v Speaker 5>love hosting, so I hosted a book swap the other

0:28:51.080 --> 0:28:53.320
<v Speaker 5>week where that was the whole point where just everyone

0:28:53.400 --> 0:28:55.560
<v Speaker 5>brought books and we just had we made dinner and

0:28:55.880 --> 0:28:58.360
<v Speaker 5>different groups got to meet each other. And so we

0:28:58.520 --> 0:29:00.880
<v Speaker 5>really like being a center of commune for a lot

0:29:00.880 --> 0:29:02.760
<v Speaker 5>of people in our life. And then yeah, like making

0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:05.440
<v Speaker 5>sure we watch your friend's dog when they go to town.

0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:08.880
<v Speaker 5>So we're making sure that there's a lot of community

0:29:08.920 --> 0:29:09.600
<v Speaker 5>care in our.

0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:10.440
<v Speaker 4>Life as well.

0:29:11.440 --> 0:29:14.040
<v Speaker 2>So my final question is what advice do you have

0:29:14.160 --> 0:29:17.360
<v Speaker 2>for someone listening who's still holding out for a partner.

0:29:17.800 --> 0:29:18.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, totally that was me.

0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:23.960
<v Speaker 5>You know, I would say pursue that part of your

0:29:24.040 --> 0:29:27.480
<v Speaker 5>life in what is known as harmonious passion. I was

0:29:27.520 --> 0:29:31.400
<v Speaker 5>stuck in what's called obsessive passion, where you are living

0:29:31.520 --> 0:29:35.200
<v Speaker 5>or dying by the outcome of something and it's almost

0:29:35.200 --> 0:29:39.120
<v Speaker 5>a compulsion to participate in it, so to swipe all

0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:40.840
<v Speaker 5>the time, to go on as many days as you

0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:43.960
<v Speaker 5>can to think about what's the new way I should

0:29:43.960 --> 0:29:49.560
<v Speaker 5>write my profile. And harmonious passion is really thinking about

0:29:50.200 --> 0:29:54.840
<v Speaker 5>not letting the outcome control your own happiness, to kind

0:29:54.880 --> 0:29:57.960
<v Speaker 5>of be less attached to the results of it.

0:29:58.200 --> 0:29:59.680
<v Speaker 4>But if you were attached.

0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:02.959
<v Speaker 5>To the outcome of every single date, it is miserable

0:30:03.200 --> 0:30:06.400
<v Speaker 5>because I've loved it. So if you can approach your

0:30:06.440 --> 0:30:08.560
<v Speaker 5>life with a harmonious passion. So it's a lot of

0:30:08.560 --> 0:30:11.160
<v Speaker 5>things in my book, which is making sure you have

0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:14.920
<v Speaker 5>a full life and you have hobbies you like, that

0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:18.520
<v Speaker 5>you're excited about the space you live in, that you

0:30:18.600 --> 0:30:21.040
<v Speaker 5>do things that you don't wait for them for a partner,

0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:24.440
<v Speaker 5>and then that makes going on dates or maybe just

0:30:24.480 --> 0:30:27.680
<v Speaker 5>waiting for someone not waiting, but like you know, maybe

0:30:27.680 --> 0:30:31.280
<v Speaker 5>meeting someone out in the wild, feel less like everything

0:30:31.360 --> 0:30:34.800
<v Speaker 5>depends on this one person. Because I think for me,

0:30:34.880 --> 0:30:38.840
<v Speaker 5>what was super helpful was thinking, Okay, my life could

0:30:38.920 --> 0:30:42.480
<v Speaker 5>go two main directions, right, I could be mostly single

0:30:42.520 --> 0:30:44.360
<v Speaker 5>for the rest of my life, or I could meet

0:30:44.360 --> 0:30:46.719
<v Speaker 5>a partner. I just don't know when, and I have

0:30:46.760 --> 0:30:49.840
<v Speaker 5>to make sure both outcomes are great.

0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:53.160
<v Speaker 2>I think that is beautiful and spot on. Thank you

0:30:53.280 --> 0:30:55.120
<v Speaker 2>so much for joining us, Megan.

0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:56.640
<v Speaker 4>Oh, thanks for having me appreciate it.

0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Megan Kane is the author of Party of One, Be

0:31:01.240 --> 0:31:04.440
<v Speaker 2>your Own Best Life Partner. She's the supervising editor and

0:31:04.560 --> 0:31:06.360
<v Speaker 2>founder of NPR's life Kit.

0:31:08.600 --> 0:31:12.000
<v Speaker 1>That's It. For Today's Show Tomorrow, relationship guru Jillian Tareki

0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:14.320
<v Speaker 1>is here to talk all about her best selling book,

0:31:14.600 --> 0:31:18.240
<v Speaker 1>It Begins with You, Nine hard truths about love that

0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:23.040
<v Speaker 1>will change your life. Join the conversation using hashtag the

0:31:23.040 --> 0:31:25.840
<v Speaker 1>bright Side and connect with us on social media at

0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:29.160
<v Speaker 1>Hello Sunshine on Instagram and at the bright Side Pod

0:31:29.280 --> 0:31:32.080
<v Speaker 1>on TikTok oh, and feel free to tag us at

0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Simone Boyce and at Danielle Robe.

0:31:35.040 --> 0:31:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,

0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:40.680
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0:31:41.080 --> 0:31:45.640
<v Speaker 1>See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.