WEBVTT - Henry Paul

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the bob Lefset's podcast. My

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<v Speaker 1>guest today is Henry Hall, who has a new book

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<v Speaker 1>to last out. Henry, isn't today your birthday?

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<v Speaker 2>Today is my birthday?

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<v Speaker 1>So what are your special plans?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, my son's coming over for dinner. He's a very

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<v Speaker 2>entertaining character. So we're going to make some pae, drink

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<v Speaker 2>some Spanish wine. My wife is cooking dinner for me,

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<v Speaker 2>which is not unusual, but we both share the cooking duties,

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<v Speaker 2>but she's commandeering the kitchen for my birthday tonight.

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<v Speaker 1>So pae good pie is great. How did you learn

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<v Speaker 1>how to make paea?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, growing up in Tampa with a Cuban community.

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<v Speaker 2>It was the kind of part of the landscape.

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<v Speaker 1>Any other dishes you specialize it?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, you know, I mean going back to the

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<v Speaker 2>Cuban thing, the Spanish thing, the chicken and yellow rice.

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<v Speaker 2>I love to make hyea. I love French bistro cooking, coke, Wova,

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<v Speaker 2>boothberg Ignon. Gosh, you know, I'm just going to tell

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<v Speaker 2>you this my spaghetti sauce. Seriously, if you're a soulful

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<v Speaker 2>character that knows the difference between good and great. My

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<v Speaker 2>sauce would qualify.

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<v Speaker 1>But make sure so magic. What's the essence of the recipe?

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<v Speaker 2>Time homegrown tomatoes. I don't use ground beef. I use

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<v Speaker 2>ground hot Italian sausage as my base for the sauce.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. You know, it's so heavy that you

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<v Speaker 2>can't eat it very often. We probably make that once

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<v Speaker 2>every two or three months. But when we do, we

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<v Speaker 2>gain five pounds. It's part of it.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you do about food on the road?

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<v Speaker 2>Ah, that's a good one. Kind of you just try

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<v Speaker 2>and be discerning, try and pick and choose. But it

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<v Speaker 2>can get pretty ugly. It can get pretty damn ugly. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're on the Lenards Skinnered tour and the catering

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<v Speaker 2>is a notch or two above what you are used to,

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<v Speaker 2>that's half the attraction anymore. Forget exposure to a large audience.

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<v Speaker 2>It's all about the catering.

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<v Speaker 1>So, okay, you've been doing this a long time. You're

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<v Speaker 1>going to die on stage? No, So what would it

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<v Speaker 1>take for you to all the day?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm close. When I was younger, I thought I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to be you know, Willie Nelson when I grew up.

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<v Speaker 2>But I've had enough. I mean, honestly, I have a

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<v Speaker 2>four year old and a ten year old at home

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<v Speaker 2>and a young wife, and a greenhouse and some acreage

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<v Speaker 2>and a tractor, and you know, I would like to

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<v Speaker 2>go out maybe with a couple of people to sing

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<v Speaker 2>with and do acoustic and acoustic evening and tell some stories.

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<v Speaker 2>But my son, who is a very talented young man,

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<v Speaker 2>is more than capable of running the show out here,

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<v Speaker 2>and he wants to, and I want him to, and

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<v Speaker 2>so I thought maybe next year could be my last year.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you say your son is people being running the show?

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<v Speaker 1>What exactly do you mean?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, he's a much better guitar player than I am.

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<v Speaker 2>He's a really good singer, and he is a good leader.

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<v Speaker 2>He's a natural born chip off the old block. That way,

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<v Speaker 2>our family is brought with chiefs. There aren't a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of Indians.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, but if you stop, that would mean the Outlaws

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<v Speaker 3>would be on the road without any original members.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, how many original tires do you have in your car? Bob?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, he's been out there since he was ten.

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<v Speaker 2>He's come in contact with the fan base extensively over

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<v Speaker 2>the years. He's a really kind person and he's a

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<v Speaker 2>very charismatic type of guy, and the fans know him,

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<v Speaker 2>they love him. He's been very kind to the fans,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's got the right name, and he's got a

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<v Speaker 2>very very long and storied not unlike Johnny van Zant

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<v Speaker 2>or Ricky Midlock, now, you know. I mean, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>mind saying that Lennard Skinner band is very good and

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<v Speaker 2>those people want to hear those songs, they want to

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<v Speaker 2>buy that T shirt, and that band puts on a

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<v Speaker 2>great show and is very faithful to the band's musical personality.

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<v Speaker 2>And I feel like the Outlaws and Blackhawk can go

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<v Speaker 2>on indefinitely because of the nature of the material. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, little Henry has a unique talent for sounding

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<v Speaker 2>like his dad. There's a part of him that sounds

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<v Speaker 2>a little like me anyhow, and as you may know,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's kind of an unusual sounding voice. But

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<v Speaker 2>he he can do that, and I want him to

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<v Speaker 2>do that. I would That's something I can give him.

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<v Speaker 2>And the guys on the bus love and respect him,

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<v Speaker 2>and he can keep the band together and keep going.

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<v Speaker 1>But even you know, our Laws had many men, Blackcaw

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<v Speaker 1>only had a few. You still think it could be

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<v Speaker 1>okay with him leading.

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<v Speaker 2>The band absolutely well, you know, of course I would

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<v Speaker 2>say yes. But I think Blackhawk was a trio. The

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<v Speaker 2>Outlaws was a five piece rock band. The Blackhawk thing

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<v Speaker 2>is far more kind and gentle, you know, and thoughtful

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<v Speaker 2>and the Outlaws. You know, back when we were young people, man,

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<v Speaker 2>we were like all just clawn at the walls to

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<v Speaker 2>try and get ahead and be somebody. I think Dave

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<v Speaker 2>Robbins and I, which are the two surviving original members

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<v Speaker 2>of Blackhawk, I think Dave would be very helpful to Henry.

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<v Speaker 2>I know he would be, and I think he would

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<v Speaker 2>lend a significant amount of credibility to the brand. I

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<v Speaker 2>you know, how many original members and cover bands, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you hear that lot. But Lennard Skinner's out

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<v Speaker 2>there doing great and I'm using them as an example.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, there's a lot of bands that represent

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<v Speaker 2>something musically to a generation of people and they want that.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that it's fair to expect, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a great show in the spirit of what it was,

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<v Speaker 2>what you know, what it was from a creative standpoint.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, other than that, I don't know when

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<v Speaker 2>a band goes away, do they just go away? I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>do they just like just go away or do they

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, keep going.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, it's an interesting thing, you know. I've been to

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<v Speaker 1>see Journey with the replacement singer and you're in the

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<v Speaker 1>audience and you realize the audience owns the songs more

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<v Speaker 1>than the band, and that they're experienced, they want to

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<v Speaker 1>hear the songs, and who's on stage isn't as important

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<v Speaker 1>to them as it might have been in the heyday.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and I think that we're conditioned to love the

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<v Speaker 2>original band. I think it's natural to feel that way.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, maybe the Beatles are an exception. Whether can

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<v Speaker 2>you see the Beatles without John or Paul or George.

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<v Speaker 2>But I do believe that that people want to hear

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<v Speaker 2>those songs. They want them played and sang and treated

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<v Speaker 2>with respect and with you know, in a competent musical

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<v Speaker 2>form and fashion. One thing that has really helped the

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<v Speaker 2>Outlaws for the last fifteen or twenty years is that

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<v Speaker 2>I was unyield towards the band's original sound. And when

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<v Speaker 2>I wrote and recorded new studio records, I wrote and

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<v Speaker 2>recorded music that was faithful to the band's musical personality.

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<v Speaker 2>It was never spanned out ballet or any of that

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it was always the Outlaws, and I loved,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, just you know, continuing that musical personality and

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<v Speaker 2>being true to it felt really natural and right to me.

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<v Speaker 2>And so when the fan base got a new record,

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<v Speaker 2>they drop the needle and they'd go, Wow, this sounds

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<v Speaker 2>like the Outlaws. This is really good. The songs are

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<v Speaker 2>really good, the harmony, vocals are great, the guitars are sizzling.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a great sounding record in and I not because

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<v Speaker 2>it's my songwriting that is in the you know, at

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<v Speaker 2>the center of it. But there's some pretty damn good

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<v Speaker 2>songs on those records, and the performance is really good.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. You hear a lot about older artists that if

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<v Speaker 1>they play new material, people go to the bar. What's

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<v Speaker 1>your experience?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, again, you know, I want to hear Bob Dylan

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<v Speaker 2>sing subterranean homesick clues. I'm not very interested in what

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<v Speaker 2>he has to say here in the last ten or

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen years. So if I put a new song in

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<v Speaker 2>the set and I'm writing about let me just give

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<v Speaker 2>you an example. If I'm if I'm coming from a

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<v Speaker 2>song off the first or second album and I put

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<v Speaker 2>a new song in a set, uh, and it speaks

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<v Speaker 2>to them lyrically, and it's and it speaks to them stylistically.

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<v Speaker 2>I can tell you from experience, you're going to get

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<v Speaker 2>what you want in the way of a reaction, and

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<v Speaker 2>uh uh, I think that. You know fans if they're

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<v Speaker 2>having a good time and they're on their feet and

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<v Speaker 2>the new material pushes their button, which it does, and

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<v Speaker 2>it speaks to them lyrically in a way that they

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<v Speaker 2>can relate. The walls of the Fillmore East still echo

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<v Speaker 2>with the sound and Midnight Writer memories forever haunt this town.

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<v Speaker 2>You know. It's like fire on the mountain, the voice

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<v Speaker 2>that can't you see. The reason Sweet Home Alibi means

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<v Speaker 2>so much to me is it's about pride. So you

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<v Speaker 2>put that in the show, and I defy you to

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<v Speaker 2>not want to love that and not want to react

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<v Speaker 2>to that. And so it's how you frame the music

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<v Speaker 2>lyrically and lyrically, that's how it kind of established itself

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<v Speaker 2>to begin with. And if you're wise to that and

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<v Speaker 2>you're consistent, then you can bring new life to the band.

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<v Speaker 2>We've done it, I mean Dixie Highway and It's about pride.

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<v Speaker 2>Those two albums have done incredibly well for us and

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<v Speaker 2>really helped give the band legitimacy, which I think was important.

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<v Speaker 1>You talk about potentially stopping in a year. What's been

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<v Speaker 1>keeping you doing it for these last years?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, most of all, I think I wanted to prove

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<v Speaker 2>to myself because Blackhawk is a uniquely personal musical personality

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<v Speaker 2>of my own sort of making. Along with Dave and band,

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<v Speaker 2>the Outlaws had three singer songwriters from the very early

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<v Speaker 2>stages of the group, and Huey emerged as the dominant

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<v Speaker 2>musical personality in the band. And when I left the

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<v Speaker 2>group upon my bandmates suggestion, it was hurtful and it

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<v Speaker 2>started a fire in me that was hard to put out.

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<v Speaker 2>Whether it was the Henry Paul Band, or coming back

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<v Speaker 2>to the Outlaws and establishing it as a really good, solid,

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<v Speaker 2>vocal and instrumental group, or whether it was when hue

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<v Speaker 2>passed away and I took the reins and brought the

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<v Speaker 2>band back. It was a personal thing for me to succeed,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was important for me to feel that success

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<v Speaker 2>because I had a large part in creating the Outlaws

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<v Speaker 2>and I had a very significant investment in their well being,

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<v Speaker 2>and it just gave me that late in life opportunity

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<v Speaker 2>to show myself as committed and to put a very

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<v Speaker 2>professional face on a band that had been through a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of changes and a lot of inglorious moments.

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<v Speaker 1>So have you achieved your dream?

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<v Speaker 2>I have, and I you know, I had. My goal

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<v Speaker 2>was to pull the fan base together and have everybody,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, in one place. I found out I could

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<v Speaker 2>not do that. I couldn't do that. I mean, it

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<v Speaker 2>didn't matter what I did. That wasn't going to happen.

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<v Speaker 2>But what I did do is I brought these people

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<v Speaker 2>that grew up listening to that band, and I brought

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<v Speaker 2>them back to the group, and the audience went through

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<v Speaker 2>over time, went through a significant ship and the people

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<v Speaker 2>that I was playing for became more familiar to me sociologically.

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<v Speaker 1>And.

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<v Speaker 2>They showed their enthusiasm for what we were doing in

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<v Speaker 2>a way that I internalized on a personal level. And so,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it was important for me to feel like

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<v Speaker 2>I had put the Outlaws out there in a way

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<v Speaker 2>that was respectful and successful, especially from the standpoint of

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<v Speaker 2>the audience's reaction to the evening.

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<v Speaker 1>So who's coming Ole Laws shows now?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I would say eighty percent of the audience is

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<v Speaker 2>the original people that discovered the band and supported it.

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<v Speaker 2>The twenty percent of the audience is young people that

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<v Speaker 2>love seventies southern raw musical personality or guitar driven musical personalities,

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<v Speaker 2>and the female quotient in the audience is at a

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<v Speaker 2>higher level.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think it counts for that?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's the respect that they are given from

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<v Speaker 2>the stage and the inviting nature of the rapport. And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not talking about pandering. I'm just talking about appealing

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<v Speaker 2>to these people on a on a human level. And

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<v Speaker 2>instead of making it dark and sleeveless and male and

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<v Speaker 2>aggressive and motorcycle persona driven, we made it a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit lighter, a little bit more vocal, and a lot

0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:31.399
<v Speaker 2>more accessible. From the standpoint of our rapport, there's some

0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:37.560
<v Speaker 2>you know this, there's some nice looking guys in the band,

0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:41.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, I mean, it doesn't look ugly. It looks

0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:49.480
<v Speaker 2>really like American, like, for lack of a better word,

0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:54.719
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more you know, just accessible as people

0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:59.280
<v Speaker 2>the people on stage, and they're really kind people. And

0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:04.440
<v Speaker 2>I think through consistency of our rapport with the audience

0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:11.679
<v Speaker 2>over a decade or more, twenty almost years, and people said,

0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.800
<v Speaker 2>the Outlaws are playing in a really nice venue, they

0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:20.000
<v Speaker 2>sound really good. Let's go see the Outlaws and we'll

0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:25.280
<v Speaker 2>have some cocktails and we'll enjoy ourselves and it'll take

0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.640
<v Speaker 2>us back to when we were kids. And Henry will

0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:32.480
<v Speaker 2>come out and say hello, and they're very accessible and

0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:36.720
<v Speaker 2>he's a really nice guy. And the band sounds really good,

0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:41.879
<v Speaker 2>and you know, they look good. By looks good and

0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.960
<v Speaker 2>they sound good. And I just think over time, the audience,

0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:50.560
<v Speaker 2>I know, it went through a shift and it was

0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:56.199
<v Speaker 2>kind of like started to mirror the personalities on stage

0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:00.800
<v Speaker 2>rather than us trying to mimic our our audience.

0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you've laid the base there. The band is now

0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:11.479
<v Speaker 1>on stage, you're the front person for the band. What

0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.720
<v Speaker 1>is the key to interacting personally with the audience.

0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think if you're a gracious to begin with,

0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:35.160
<v Speaker 2>and you have an empathetic and gracious sort of spirit,

0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:42.119
<v Speaker 2>and you legitimately like people instead of being put off

0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:50.080
<v Speaker 2>by him or instead of being you know, uh, you know,

0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:58.399
<v Speaker 2>instead of being you know, intruded upon or feeling like,

0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:03.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, you need to just be alone or private.

0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:08.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we were very comfortable and cordial in interacting

0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:17.240
<v Speaker 2>with the fans, and it wasn't a conscientious decision made

0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.560
<v Speaker 2>on a marketing level. It was just who we were.

0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.960
<v Speaker 2>It's who I am, and the band mirrors my persona

0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.560
<v Speaker 2>when it comes to my appreciation for who these people are,

0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:34.720
<v Speaker 2>and when I speak to them, I speak to them

0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:42.480
<v Speaker 2>in a language that they recognize as being real. It's

0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:51.360
<v Speaker 2>not some flag waving veterans supporting, you know, just pandering

0:21:51.720 --> 0:22:05.120
<v Speaker 2>to some Southern rock persona or or perceived personality that

0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.960
<v Speaker 2>we have to assume. It's a very natural and very

0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:16.600
<v Speaker 2>accessible message, and I think it comes from being smart

0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:23.679
<v Speaker 2>enough to know that who you're dealing with are pretty

0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:33.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, receptive and intelligent and similar types of people

0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:39.360
<v Speaker 2>than as you know, they get the difference between kindness

0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:48.199
<v Speaker 2>or genuine you know, behavior and appreciation rather than the

0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:52.320
<v Speaker 2>cliche thing. I've heard it my whole life, you know,

0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:57.399
<v Speaker 2>I've heard it over and over and it just doesn't

0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:00.080
<v Speaker 2>sound good to me. What sounds good to me is

0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:03.679
<v Speaker 2>not talking down to them, but talking to them and

0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:07.800
<v Speaker 2>with them. So I think that you know, people will go,

0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:12.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, well, I love the stories Henry was telling tonight.

0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:21.720
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm very appreciative and genuinely affectionate towards my bandmates. Yes,

0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:30.040
<v Speaker 2>we had some heart wrenching parts to the story, but

0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:32.360
<v Speaker 2>I never lost sight of who they were or what

0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:36.840
<v Speaker 2>they meant to me. We realized a dream together, we

0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:41.520
<v Speaker 2>thought for it, we realized it together. It was a

0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:45.600
<v Speaker 2>very life changing moment and a very important part of

0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:49.640
<v Speaker 2>making our life matter. And so you can't just write

0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:54.320
<v Speaker 2>those people off. And I treat those former bandmates with

0:23:54.440 --> 0:24:00.000
<v Speaker 2>respect on the mic, and I acknowledged the obvious contribution

0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:07.760
<v Speaker 2>they made, and I think that the sincerity and the

0:24:07.920 --> 0:24:15.880
<v Speaker 2>genuine appeal of the band rests in that rapport.

0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:19.760
<v Speaker 1>So when you tell a story, I mean, there's two

0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:21.480
<v Speaker 1>ways to tell the story. Well, this is a song

0:24:21.600 --> 0:24:24.919
<v Speaker 1>written by my bandmate, it's on this album. We're going

0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:27.199
<v Speaker 1>to play it. There's another thing to say, Well, I

0:24:27.280 --> 0:24:30.360
<v Speaker 1>was sitting on the couch smoking a doobie. What kind

0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:31.880
<v Speaker 1>of stories do you tell live?

0:24:33.880 --> 0:24:40.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, I go to the Two Nights in Nashville when

0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:43.600
<v Speaker 2>we opened for Leonard skinnern in the spring of nineteen

0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:50.240
<v Speaker 2>seventy four, and Ronnie going back to the hotel and

0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:54.159
<v Speaker 2>calling his manager and telling his manager that there was

0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:57.520
<v Speaker 2>a band on the show from Tampa trying to kick

0:24:57.560 --> 0:25:04.600
<v Speaker 2>their ass and they had themselves Freebird. That evening, unbeknownst

0:25:04.600 --> 0:25:08.560
<v Speaker 2>to us, was a life changing evening because the Leonard

0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:12.119
<v Speaker 2>Skinnyerd manager at that time had a lot of influence

0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:19.800
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of credibility, and his his effort on

0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:27.800
<v Speaker 2>our behalf was met with attention and ultimately a major

0:25:27.880 --> 0:25:33.560
<v Speaker 2>label record deal between Charlie Bruscoe and Alan Walden. We

0:25:33.560 --> 0:25:37.240
<v Speaker 2>were able to connect with people that had the power

0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:41.800
<v Speaker 2>to sign a band to a major label, and we

0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:48.160
<v Speaker 2>were really good. And those are the kind of stories that,

0:25:48.640 --> 0:25:54.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, kind of give the fans a bit more

0:25:54.280 --> 0:25:56.520
<v Speaker 2>of an understanding of how in the hell you got there,

0:25:57.600 --> 0:26:00.679
<v Speaker 2>because otherwise, you know, it's just like, I don't know,

0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:05.560
<v Speaker 2>we Clive came and saw us, you know, but Clive

0:26:05.640 --> 0:26:07.520
<v Speaker 2>did come and see us, But he came and saw

0:26:07.600 --> 0:26:11.679
<v Speaker 2>us because people told Clive we were good. You know,

0:26:11.760 --> 0:26:14.720
<v Speaker 2>the music business, you're only as good as someone that

0:26:14.880 --> 0:26:19.520
<v Speaker 2>has influence says you are. And if they say you're good,

0:26:19.560 --> 0:26:24.040
<v Speaker 2>then everyone believes it. But they don't say you're good,

0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:28.000
<v Speaker 2>then nobody cares. So here was this person saying they're

0:26:28.040 --> 0:26:34.360
<v Speaker 2>really good. And then you know, Bob, you know, Fiden

0:26:34.480 --> 0:26:36.960
<v Speaker 2>comes down and sees the band and goes back and says, yeah,

0:26:36.960 --> 0:26:41.000
<v Speaker 2>they're really good, Clive, they really are good. And so

0:26:41.040 --> 0:26:45.199
<v Speaker 2>Clive comes down and said, you know, Clive, you know,

0:26:46.200 --> 0:26:51.439
<v Speaker 2>the superlatives were, you know, flowing. And I was in

0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:53.479
<v Speaker 2>a room with a guy and all of a sudden,

0:26:53.520 --> 0:26:56.679
<v Speaker 2>from just being a dreamer and a hard worker, I

0:26:56.760 --> 0:27:01.600
<v Speaker 2>went to being a recording artist and a part of

0:27:01.640 --> 0:27:08.120
<v Speaker 2>the popular music landscape, and it was a big deal.

0:27:09.400 --> 0:27:12.240
<v Speaker 1>Let's stay with Clive for a second. You know, you're

0:27:12.280 --> 0:27:15.920
<v Speaker 1>in with Clive in his second iteration, he's starting up Arista.

0:27:16.600 --> 0:27:18.760
<v Speaker 1>As you talk in the book, it's really the first

0:27:18.840 --> 0:27:24.240
<v Speaker 1>rock band on the label. Clive is notorious for messing

0:27:24.320 --> 0:27:28.400
<v Speaker 1>with the music. You mentioned a couple of things, him

0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:32.760
<v Speaker 1>wanting hits after the first album. What was your experience

0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:35.040
<v Speaker 1>with working with Clive.

0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:41.600
<v Speaker 2>It was good, not to sound, you know, politically correct,

0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:46.800
<v Speaker 2>but it was good. He did not really lean on

0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:50.800
<v Speaker 2>us very much. He brought to my knowledge one song

0:27:51.760 --> 0:27:57.040
<v Speaker 2>and suggested we record it, and we did, and it

0:27:57.240 --> 0:28:08.480
<v Speaker 2>was a little left or right of center for us.

0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:11.879
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to remember the name of the song. We

0:28:11.960 --> 0:28:16.080
<v Speaker 2>never performed it, you know, because it didn't become a

0:28:16.119 --> 0:28:23.320
<v Speaker 2>song that was noteworthy. The Santana story is a great

0:28:23.359 --> 0:28:27.240
<v Speaker 2>story but that wasn't our story. We were more of.

0:28:29.320 --> 0:28:31.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, when you go back and listen to the

0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Outlaws albums and you go back and listen to the

0:28:36.840 --> 0:28:43.000
<v Speaker 2>Eels records, it becomes clear pretty quickly if you know

0:28:43.080 --> 0:28:46.760
<v Speaker 2>anything about songwriting, why they're a household name and we're

0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:51.640
<v Speaker 2>a cult bad. I'm not saying our songs weren't good,

0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:55.680
<v Speaker 2>but I'm saying they were different. Tequila Sunrise, you know,

0:28:55.960 --> 0:29:00.960
<v Speaker 2>is like if you like Pinacle, you know, I mean,

0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:07.360
<v Speaker 2>it's just it's served up, you know, with an umbrella

0:29:07.560 --> 0:29:12.080
<v Speaker 2>and a long straw. But Green Grass and High Tides

0:29:14.080 --> 0:29:25.600
<v Speaker 2>is a majestic instrumental phenomena that would burn the Eagles

0:29:25.640 --> 0:29:32.480
<v Speaker 2>completely to the ground in musical comparison, and so you know,

0:29:32.560 --> 0:29:37.880
<v Speaker 2>they were beautiful singers. Henley emerged as a major league

0:29:38.000 --> 0:29:45.680
<v Speaker 2>songwriter and a hugely, incredibly influential musical personality. I mean,

0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:52.840
<v Speaker 2>don his solo records to me were like Goga and

0:29:53.880 --> 0:29:58.080
<v Speaker 2>the Eagles to this day are a great band. I

0:29:58.080 --> 0:30:01.920
<v Speaker 2>mean they should be. They've got Vince Gill and Joe Walsh.

0:30:03.040 --> 0:30:07.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, shit, how do you go wrong there? I mean,

0:30:07.280 --> 0:30:09.520
<v Speaker 2>Vince Gill is a work of art, and you know,

0:30:09.600 --> 0:30:13.520
<v Speaker 2>and Joe Walsh's and Don Felder was a great part

0:30:13.560 --> 0:30:16.000
<v Speaker 2>of that band. I have a great part of that band.

0:30:16.040 --> 0:30:22.200
<v Speaker 2>Really help them. But you know, we were different that way,

0:30:22.400 --> 0:30:28.280
<v Speaker 2>and and people love us for not being the Eagles,

0:30:28.400 --> 0:30:31.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, they love us for being you know. Bob

0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:36.600
<v Speaker 2>Dylan has a quote that says, never never confused popular

0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:44.760
<v Speaker 2>with good. Just be yourself and write your quirky little

0:30:44.800 --> 0:30:50.880
<v Speaker 2>songs that don't have you know, universal thoughts and hooks.

0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:53.680
<v Speaker 2>But to you, you go out and you play that

0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:58.600
<v Speaker 2>hard and you play it with conviction, and people will

0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:01.520
<v Speaker 2>love it just on face value. It doesn't have to

0:31:01.560 --> 0:31:08.560
<v Speaker 2>be you know, steely Dan. It can be a simple

0:31:08.760 --> 0:31:11.800
<v Speaker 2>and maybe a little bit I mean, Leonard Skynard's a

0:31:11.800 --> 0:31:15.200
<v Speaker 2>great example of a band that had a very simple

0:31:15.320 --> 0:31:19.680
<v Speaker 2>musical personality. And yes they had Sweet Home Alabama, which

0:31:19.720 --> 0:31:27.080
<v Speaker 2>is in a you know, a beautiful musical moment for them.

0:31:27.160 --> 0:31:33.520
<v Speaker 2>But Marshall Tucker and even the Almand Brothers, even though

0:31:33.520 --> 0:31:38.240
<v Speaker 2>they had a hit on Ramblin Man, those bands, we

0:31:38.240 --> 0:31:43.840
<v Speaker 2>were sort of cast in the Almond Brothers, we were

0:31:43.920 --> 0:31:50.200
<v Speaker 2>all cast i think in a certain extent in their image.

0:31:50.480 --> 0:31:53.640
<v Speaker 2>We loved them and we were in awe of them.

0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:56.320
<v Speaker 2>And we respected them and we wanted to be them,

0:31:57.600 --> 0:32:00.560
<v Speaker 2>and we were, you know, in our own sol Way,

0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:08.440
<v Speaker 2>just incredibly enamored by who they were and what they

0:32:08.480 --> 0:32:16.240
<v Speaker 2>meant to us, especially you know from Live at the

0:32:16.320 --> 0:32:24.840
<v Speaker 2>film Wore and Eat a Peach and holy crap, I mean,

0:32:24.920 --> 0:32:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Brothers and Sisters was like even without Dwayne, I mean,

0:32:29.080 --> 0:32:34.240
<v Speaker 2>the band hit this thing and we were just absolutely

0:32:37.200 --> 0:32:41.920
<v Speaker 2>completely invested in what that was. We didn't mimic them,

0:32:41.960 --> 0:32:46.640
<v Speaker 2>but we really loved what they did. And the Marshall

0:32:46.680 --> 0:32:51.760
<v Speaker 2>Tucker band was a great band. Skinner was a great

0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:58.200
<v Speaker 2>band of Charlie Daniels was a great band. And that

0:32:58.320 --> 0:33:05.760
<v Speaker 2>was our peer group Leonard Skinner, Marshall Tucker, Charlie Daniels,

0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:09.520
<v Speaker 2>and god dare I say the Almend Brothers. That was

0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:15.360
<v Speaker 2>Southern rock. And the Outlaws were the last band to

0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:21.560
<v Speaker 2>enter that configuration. But the Outlaws earned their way in,

0:33:21.880 --> 0:33:25.440
<v Speaker 2>and I can tell you from experience. Every night used

0:33:25.480 --> 0:33:27.400
<v Speaker 2>to bring the whip down pretty good, and we would

0:33:27.440 --> 0:33:30.800
<v Speaker 2>get over on Skinnered, or we would get over on Tucker,

0:33:30.960 --> 0:33:33.600
<v Speaker 2>or we get over on Charlie. We held our own

0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:40.960
<v Speaker 2>every night, and our relationship with those people was genuine

0:33:41.000 --> 0:33:48.400
<v Speaker 2>and warm and very very memorable in a very nurturing

0:33:48.520 --> 0:33:54.160
<v Speaker 2>and positive way.

0:33:57.720 --> 0:34:01.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you talk about interacting with the audience today, and

0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:05.680
<v Speaker 1>you talk about not being a cliche. You tour all

0:34:05.720 --> 0:34:08.200
<v Speaker 1>over this country, You've seen the people, You're where the

0:34:08.239 --> 0:34:10.920
<v Speaker 1>rubber meets the road. What can you tell us about

0:34:10.960 --> 0:34:12.280
<v Speaker 1>people in America today?

0:34:15.280 --> 0:34:23.319
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's for me, it was, and I'm just going

0:34:23.400 --> 0:34:29.239
<v Speaker 2>to talk about my audience because I don't know everyone.

0:34:29.440 --> 0:34:32.080
<v Speaker 2>But not just for the Outlaws, but for Black Pop

0:34:33.400 --> 0:34:41.560
<v Speaker 2>or for the Henry Paul band, those people were very grounded,

0:34:43.120 --> 0:34:53.480
<v Speaker 2>earthy and traditional in their taste and in their behavior

0:34:53.680 --> 0:35:02.239
<v Speaker 2>and in their musical choices. Our audience for those and

0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:08.120
<v Speaker 2>even today for those bands, are people that are middle

0:35:08.160 --> 0:35:30.080
<v Speaker 2>class white American people of a normal, hard working background

0:35:30.360 --> 0:35:39.840
<v Speaker 2>of success and you know the whole from family to

0:35:40.000 --> 0:35:43.960
<v Speaker 2>growing up and getting a job and doing what you

0:35:44.040 --> 0:35:47.000
<v Speaker 2>knew you needed to do for your family. Our audience

0:35:47.120 --> 0:35:53.440
<v Speaker 2>is very Americana in a true sense of the word.

0:35:54.520 --> 0:35:59.400
<v Speaker 2>Blackhawk's audience is very young. The Outlaws audience is older.

0:36:01.520 --> 0:36:03.279
<v Speaker 2>But they both when you look at them, you know

0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:06.600
<v Speaker 2>they got jobs and lives. These are not people that

0:36:06.840 --> 0:36:11.320
<v Speaker 2>wander in, you know, like with nothing. They worked hard

0:36:11.880 --> 0:36:17.440
<v Speaker 2>and they have a life. I mean the clothes that

0:36:17.520 --> 0:36:20.040
<v Speaker 2>they wear, or the way that they interact with you,

0:36:20.160 --> 0:36:24.799
<v Speaker 2>or the affection that they are capable of giving you.

0:36:24.520 --> 0:36:29.319
<v Speaker 2>You get the impression that these are people that are

0:36:29.440 --> 0:36:32.040
<v Speaker 2>like you. They're like me.

0:36:32.840 --> 0:36:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you say after the show, you interact with the audience.

0:36:38.480 --> 0:36:42.279
<v Speaker 1>I had, okay. So that's not a normal feature. You

0:36:42.280 --> 0:36:44.120
<v Speaker 1>don't come out to the merge table every night.

0:36:44.440 --> 0:36:47.120
<v Speaker 2>We did for a long time. We did for a

0:36:47.160 --> 0:36:47.760
<v Speaker 2>long time.

0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:49.120
<v Speaker 1>What changed.

0:36:50.760 --> 0:36:56.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm seventy six. I just you know, I have done

0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:58.360
<v Speaker 2>this for a long time. I just said to myself,

0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:03.399
<v Speaker 2>when I'm done with the show, I'm good to come

0:37:03.440 --> 0:37:06.879
<v Speaker 2>out and say hello. I always give everybody with it,

0:37:07.200 --> 0:37:08.920
<v Speaker 2>but I'm not going to haul the band out and

0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:13.080
<v Speaker 2>sit at a table. We did that for our decade,

0:37:13.600 --> 0:37:16.040
<v Speaker 2>and it was really a good thing to do. It

0:37:16.080 --> 0:37:19.239
<v Speaker 2>was good for us to do that. It was a

0:37:19.360 --> 0:37:24.200
<v Speaker 2>very accessible part of who we were. But we're not

0:37:24.360 --> 0:37:28.840
<v Speaker 2>that in every true sense of the word. We're not

0:37:29.000 --> 0:37:32.920
<v Speaker 2>that altogether. These days, I get done with the show,

0:37:33.239 --> 0:37:37.720
<v Speaker 2>I go to the bus, I take off those damn

0:37:37.760 --> 0:37:42.120
<v Speaker 2>type pants and those cowboy groups. I put on my

0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:48.360
<v Speaker 2>shorts and I sit there and I tally up the score.

0:37:50.160 --> 0:37:53.160
<v Speaker 2>I think about how many people came. I think about

0:37:53.200 --> 0:37:57.760
<v Speaker 2>how the band felt and performed. I consider the reaction.

0:37:57.880 --> 0:38:02.480
<v Speaker 2>We got to the evening and we don't have to

0:38:02.560 --> 0:38:05.160
<v Speaker 2>ring it up in all categories. But a good night.

0:38:05.160 --> 0:38:07.600
<v Speaker 2>It's a good night. And I knew I did my job,

0:38:09.160 --> 0:38:12.840
<v Speaker 2>and to coin a phrase from a few good men,

0:38:13.080 --> 0:38:18.200
<v Speaker 2>I'd do it again. And we just got to the

0:38:18.239 --> 0:38:22.440
<v Speaker 2>point where we were okay to go to the bus

0:38:23.600 --> 0:38:27.640
<v Speaker 2>and just stop. And I always come off the bus

0:38:27.680 --> 0:38:31.120
<v Speaker 2>and go out and say hello and sign stuff. But

0:38:31.200 --> 0:38:33.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't haul the band out to the merch table.

0:38:34.160 --> 0:38:38.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't do meet and reads. I'm good.

0:38:40.600 --> 0:38:44.800
<v Speaker 1>The nature of rock and roll is it's an evening event.

0:38:45.640 --> 0:38:47.799
<v Speaker 1>Let's just assume, for the sake of discussion, you get

0:38:47.840 --> 0:38:50.719
<v Speaker 1>off the stage at eleven, you do your tally. How

0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:52.800
<v Speaker 1>do you calm down and ultimately go to sleep.

0:38:53.680 --> 0:38:59.880
<v Speaker 2>I just sit there. I sit there, and I call home.

0:39:01.280 --> 0:39:04.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm not one of those guys that can jump right

0:39:04.120 --> 0:39:09.200
<v Speaker 2>into bed after the show. I'm pretty ant, so I

0:39:09.239 --> 0:39:13.560
<v Speaker 2>sit there. I'm usually the last one of the last

0:39:13.840 --> 0:39:16.080
<v Speaker 2>band members to go to bed and one of the

0:39:16.120 --> 0:39:19.839
<v Speaker 2>first band members to get up, and in my own

0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:23.160
<v Speaker 2>home I'm usually the last person to go to sleep

0:39:23.200 --> 0:39:27.000
<v Speaker 2>in the first person, though I've always been like that.

0:39:27.160 --> 0:39:28.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to miss anything.

0:39:31.880 --> 0:39:36.279
<v Speaker 1>Okay, since you're tallying up every night and you've been

0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:40.239
<v Speaker 1>doing this for a while. The Reformed Outlaws is the

0:39:40.280 --> 0:39:45.279
<v Speaker 1>audience going up, going down in number? Do you care

0:39:45.520 --> 0:39:47.080
<v Speaker 1>to whatever degree?

0:39:47.560 --> 0:39:52.200
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely? Hey, you know, we don't have control over all

0:39:52.239 --> 0:39:57.960
<v Speaker 2>of that, but the Outlaws have built an incredible following

0:39:58.040 --> 0:40:02.200
<v Speaker 2>in the last fifteen years, bringing the band back from

0:40:02.239 --> 0:40:05.960
<v Speaker 2>where it was when I took over after Hughey's passing.

0:40:06.840 --> 0:40:12.240
<v Speaker 2>To bring the band back has been a very successful endeavor.

0:40:14.480 --> 0:40:19.919
<v Speaker 2>And we're not headlining arenas, we're in theaters, so it's

0:40:19.960 --> 0:40:26.440
<v Speaker 2>all relative relative to the band's place. The band's place

0:40:28.200 --> 0:40:36.360
<v Speaker 2>is a smaller sort of place than other bands. We

0:40:36.600 --> 0:40:44.200
<v Speaker 2>just were never that well known, and rightfully so, we

0:40:44.280 --> 0:40:52.960
<v Speaker 2>didn't have, you know, whatever it was that made Bruce

0:40:53.000 --> 0:40:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Springsteen what he is. What we had, and we loved

0:40:57.719 --> 0:40:59.319
<v Speaker 2>who we were and what we have, but it was

0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:06.239
<v Speaker 2>different hours and I mean, I'm thankful that we have

0:41:06.400 --> 0:41:10.120
<v Speaker 2>what we have. I don't look at it and go, gosh,

0:41:10.160 --> 0:41:14.040
<v Speaker 2>I sure wish we were, you know, at Madison Square

0:41:14.080 --> 0:41:25.279
<v Speaker 2>Garden tonight instead of you know, BB Kinks, I'm I'm

0:41:25.719 --> 0:41:29.160
<v Speaker 2>I think smart enough to realize that whatever it is

0:41:29.239 --> 0:41:32.600
<v Speaker 2>you have you're thankful for. You don't sit and dream

0:41:32.640 --> 0:41:39.680
<v Speaker 2>of more. I'm very happy with what we have and

0:41:40.600 --> 0:41:44.640
<v Speaker 2>we've built the band back up and they're doing good numbers.

0:41:46.239 --> 0:41:49.200
<v Speaker 2>That's why the Outlaws are out there with thirty eight

0:41:49.239 --> 0:41:53.560
<v Speaker 2>special in Kansas on a really cool tour in America

0:41:53.600 --> 0:41:56.440
<v Speaker 2>this year. That's why the Outlaws get the phone call

0:41:57.239 --> 0:41:59.920
<v Speaker 2>to come out and do the Leonard Skinner tour in Canada.

0:42:00.320 --> 0:42:03.560
<v Speaker 2>The Outlaws are one of the great values in the

0:42:03.640 --> 0:42:08.480
<v Speaker 2>music business. People at aeg Or Live Nation they come

0:42:08.520 --> 0:42:13.200
<v Speaker 2>out and see the Outlaws and go, wow, that's absolutely incredible,

0:42:14.120 --> 0:42:17.040
<v Speaker 2>and you can get them for a song. It's not

0:42:17.320 --> 0:42:20.440
<v Speaker 2>like these gaudy numbers that these people are hanging out there.

0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:25.440
<v Speaker 2>You can buy the band relative comparatively inexpensively, and they

0:42:25.520 --> 0:42:31.000
<v Speaker 2>put a really respectable face on the start of a show.

0:42:31.120 --> 0:42:34.759
<v Speaker 2>There's no original members in the band coming out with

0:42:34.880 --> 0:42:42.880
<v Speaker 2>knee braces, no shorts. You know, it's a very respectable

0:42:44.080 --> 0:42:47.600
<v Speaker 2>part of a two or three acts show. We get

0:42:47.640 --> 0:42:52.520
<v Speaker 2>after it. We still show some nights. We just say

0:42:52.520 --> 0:42:58.120
<v Speaker 2>that Kansas sounds incredible. How many original members that I

0:42:58.160 --> 0:43:03.080
<v Speaker 2>don't give it. They say in Great thirty eight Special,

0:43:03.440 --> 0:43:06.640
<v Speaker 2>different kind of band. It's more of a pop band.

0:43:07.360 --> 0:43:12.480
<v Speaker 2>They sound great. Don Barnes has that band in really

0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:16.720
<v Speaker 2>good shape. I've got the Outlaws in really good shape. Kansas.

0:43:17.160 --> 0:43:19.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure who's running the show there, but they're

0:43:19.840 --> 0:43:25.239
<v Speaker 2>in really good shape. That three act show is one

0:43:25.239 --> 0:43:30.520
<v Speaker 2>of the greatest things out there because Kansas is not

0:43:30.880 --> 0:43:34.880
<v Speaker 2>a Southern rock band. Really, thirty eight Special is somewhat

0:43:34.920 --> 0:43:40.200
<v Speaker 2>of a hybrid, So you get a really great musical

0:43:40.239 --> 0:43:43.440
<v Speaker 2>evening and all three of those bands are playing at

0:43:43.480 --> 0:43:45.000
<v Speaker 2>the top of their game.

0:43:46.440 --> 0:43:51.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, in the book, they're ups and downs before the

0:43:51.080 --> 0:43:56.319
<v Speaker 1>Outlaws make it, members are coming, members are leaving. The

0:43:56.400 --> 0:44:00.360
<v Speaker 1>Outlaws have their Heyday than their Denu mall, and it

0:44:00.400 --> 0:44:03.319
<v Speaker 1>seems like no one has any money. So how did

0:44:03.360 --> 0:44:05.480
<v Speaker 1>that work out? Did you ever make any money of

0:44:05.560 --> 0:44:06.279
<v Speaker 1>the Outlaws?

0:44:07.160 --> 0:44:10.840
<v Speaker 2>No, not the kind of money that I've heard about

0:44:10.880 --> 0:44:19.000
<v Speaker 2>people making. Let me say that there are five members

0:44:19.040 --> 0:44:26.040
<v Speaker 2>of the Outlaws. Wikipedia is a manipulated storyline. It's not.

0:44:27.040 --> 0:44:29.600
<v Speaker 2>It has nothing to do with who the Outlaws are.

0:44:30.080 --> 0:44:37.239
<v Speaker 2>The Outlaws were Huey Thomason, Henry Paul, Billy Jones, Monte Yojo,

0:44:37.320 --> 0:44:41.920
<v Speaker 2>and Frank o'keeth. Those five people were the Outlaws. There

0:44:41.960 --> 0:44:44.560
<v Speaker 2>was a band called the Outlaws that those people were

0:44:44.600 --> 0:44:49.360
<v Speaker 2>in and out of before it wasn't the Outlaws. The

0:44:49.400 --> 0:44:56.879
<v Speaker 2>Outlaws really weren't the Outlaws until nineteen seventy two when

0:44:57.520 --> 0:45:00.719
<v Speaker 2>we put the band together by seven. It was a

0:45:00.719 --> 0:45:03.839
<v Speaker 2>five piece group. Had nothing to do with the bar

0:45:04.000 --> 0:45:09.680
<v Speaker 2>band or the fraternity you know, high school band that

0:45:10.320 --> 0:45:15.480
<v Speaker 2>had that name. It was those five people who wrote

0:45:16.120 --> 0:45:20.719
<v Speaker 2>and recorded songs, original music that went out as the

0:45:20.719 --> 0:45:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Outlaws and got the record deals. So anything other than that,

0:45:25.320 --> 0:45:32.960
<v Speaker 2>people that came later the band was, in my opinion, abused,

0:45:33.880 --> 0:45:41.040
<v Speaker 2>just treated very cavalier and very reckless. And that you

0:45:41.160 --> 0:45:43.440
<v Speaker 2>have this long list of names that people that have

0:45:43.480 --> 0:45:47.239
<v Speaker 2>been in the Outlaws. It's embarrassing to me to a

0:45:47.239 --> 0:45:51.879
<v Speaker 2>certain extent because the five people that got the band

0:45:51.920 --> 0:45:54.800
<v Speaker 2>their deal and went out and recorded those first three records,

0:45:55.120 --> 0:45:58.480
<v Speaker 2>that was the musical personality of the band. All the

0:45:58.520 --> 0:46:05.680
<v Speaker 2>other things were sort of made to pet your weight

0:46:05.800 --> 0:46:11.319
<v Speaker 2>the band's career, and fair enough, it did what it

0:46:11.360 --> 0:46:17.960
<v Speaker 2>was supposed to do. But I was a party to

0:46:18.120 --> 0:46:23.719
<v Speaker 2>making some decisions that were looking back, not good decisions.

0:46:25.160 --> 0:46:30.560
<v Speaker 2>We had some problems with Frank O'Keefe, the substance issues,

0:46:30.640 --> 0:46:35.880
<v Speaker 2>and there were things that he did that were not

0:46:36.040 --> 0:46:40.640
<v Speaker 2>in his best interest you put it that way. But

0:46:40.760 --> 0:46:46.400
<v Speaker 2>we could have helped him. We could have said, Frank,

0:46:47.360 --> 0:46:49.920
<v Speaker 2>you need help, you need to stop, you need to

0:46:49.960 --> 0:46:53.360
<v Speaker 2>do this. We can't be a band without you. We

0:46:53.520 --> 0:46:56.520
<v Speaker 2>need you. We didn't know that. We thought, well, if

0:46:56.560 --> 0:47:00.640
<v Speaker 2>Frank was going to go off the rail, then we

0:47:00.800 --> 0:47:03.560
<v Speaker 2>go get somebody else to take his place and we'd

0:47:03.600 --> 0:47:09.120
<v Speaker 2>be fine. But it wasn't fine. It wasn't fine. The

0:47:09.200 --> 0:47:11.480
<v Speaker 2>person that we got to take his place was good.

0:47:12.800 --> 0:47:15.560
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't what we were and we didn't know that.

0:47:16.360 --> 0:47:19.799
<v Speaker 2>We didn't know that. If I had known what I

0:47:19.880 --> 0:47:22.200
<v Speaker 2>know now, I would have worked a lot harder with

0:47:22.600 --> 0:47:25.680
<v Speaker 2>my friend Frank to make sure he stayed in the

0:47:25.680 --> 0:47:32.239
<v Speaker 2>band of the band stayed hole. And I think if

0:47:32.239 --> 0:47:37.480
<v Speaker 2>people saw the importance of the original members of the

0:47:37.520 --> 0:47:42.719
<v Speaker 2>band for being inherent to the band's personality and success,

0:47:43.800 --> 0:47:46.839
<v Speaker 2>that we would have all tried harder. We wouldn't have

0:47:46.880 --> 0:47:54.359
<v Speaker 2>been so quick to cut and run. And I love

0:47:54.440 --> 0:47:56.120
<v Speaker 2>the way it feels to be in a band with

0:47:56.200 --> 0:47:58.759
<v Speaker 2>people for a long period of time. It's kind of

0:47:58.840 --> 0:48:03.239
<v Speaker 2>like a marriage or a relationship of any substance, you know,

0:48:03.360 --> 0:48:07.600
<v Speaker 2>like your your friends. I don't know who your friends are.

0:48:07.920 --> 0:48:10.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there's people in your life that you know

0:48:10.440 --> 0:48:16.600
<v Speaker 2>that you love for being your friend, and that feeling

0:48:17.560 --> 0:48:23.000
<v Speaker 2>is very, very very important. And you know, the band,

0:48:25.840 --> 0:48:30.640
<v Speaker 2>it would kind of approach a certain level and then

0:48:30.680 --> 0:48:35.280
<v Speaker 2>it would kind of come apart self somewhat self destruct

0:48:35.760 --> 0:48:41.400
<v Speaker 2>and once that happened, it was hard to get it back.

0:48:42.280 --> 0:48:44.319
<v Speaker 2>I think the people that really did well in the

0:48:44.400 --> 0:48:47.080
<v Speaker 2>music business, and I'm going to use like led Zeppelin

0:48:47.160 --> 0:48:54.200
<v Speaker 2>for an example, they monetize their popularity and their personality.

0:48:55.680 --> 0:48:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Little Feet probably not so much. Does that mean little

0:48:59.640 --> 0:49:02.839
<v Speaker 2>Feet isn't important? No, they're very important. Does that mean

0:49:02.880 --> 0:49:05.200
<v Speaker 2>they made a lot of money. I don't know, but

0:49:05.360 --> 0:49:10.800
<v Speaker 2>probably not not. In the scheme. You know, Toto, Everyone

0:49:10.920 --> 0:49:14.800
<v Speaker 2>loved Toto and respected them. They're incredible musicians. Did Toto

0:49:14.920 --> 0:49:17.719
<v Speaker 2>go out and make enough money to retire on and

0:49:17.760 --> 0:49:22.080
<v Speaker 2>walk away from you know? Probably not. So it's just

0:49:23.719 --> 0:49:30.319
<v Speaker 2>kind of the luck of the draw and the wisdom

0:49:31.280 --> 0:49:38.280
<v Speaker 2>to see the value and the loyalty.

0:49:42.000 --> 0:49:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you've been in a number of good iterations. You've

0:49:45.000 --> 0:49:48.560
<v Speaker 1>been in the Outlaws, You've been in Black Hawk. Are

0:49:48.560 --> 0:49:51.239
<v Speaker 1>there any royalties coming and then Henry Paul ban any

0:49:51.320 --> 0:49:53.839
<v Speaker 1>royalties coming in from any of that, Or you've got

0:49:53.880 --> 0:49:54.720
<v Speaker 1>to work for a living.

0:49:55.160 --> 0:50:00.200
<v Speaker 2>Got to work for a living. There are royalties just

0:50:00.200 --> 0:50:03.799
<v Speaker 2>going to the grocery store. You better have either a

0:50:03.840 --> 0:50:07.759
<v Speaker 2>good job or some money coming in from somewhere. The

0:50:07.800 --> 0:50:15.000
<v Speaker 2>Blackmawk thing was my first experience with commercial success. It

0:50:15.200 --> 0:50:20.880
<v Speaker 2>was like commercial success on a grand scale. The Outlaws

0:50:20.920 --> 0:50:27.799
<v Speaker 2>had gold records. We didn't have platinum Alvens. We had

0:50:27.880 --> 0:50:35.799
<v Speaker 2>gold records. Blackhawk had multi platinum albums. Was success on

0:50:35.840 --> 0:50:39.319
<v Speaker 2>a level like I had never seen or heard, and

0:50:39.440 --> 0:50:44.920
<v Speaker 2>there was money in that. There was money. There still is.

0:50:46.000 --> 0:50:48.960
<v Speaker 2>The advent of nineties country and the popularity of what

0:50:49.000 --> 0:50:56.799
<v Speaker 2>that represents is very, very rewarding financially compared to what

0:50:56.840 --> 0:51:04.040
<v Speaker 2>though Blake Shelton, what do you think he gets to night? Yeah,

0:51:04.960 --> 0:51:07.759
<v Speaker 2>you know, maybe in three or four shows he makes

0:51:07.800 --> 0:51:12.560
<v Speaker 2>what I make gross in a year. But I don't

0:51:12.600 --> 0:51:14.319
<v Speaker 2>wake up in the morning on God, I wish I

0:51:14.440 --> 0:51:17.960
<v Speaker 2>was Blake. I kind of try and make the most

0:51:17.960 --> 0:51:25.800
<v Speaker 2>of what I have and find success in a form

0:51:25.880 --> 0:51:31.920
<v Speaker 2>that is personal to me. I can't you know, Ronnie

0:51:32.000 --> 0:51:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Dunn Brooks and Dunn, Alan Jackson, Alan Jackson, I remember

0:51:38.680 --> 0:51:42.640
<v Speaker 2>when he made a pub deal, sold his publishing for

0:51:42.719 --> 0:51:46.680
<v Speaker 2>like fourteen million dollars. Well, that ought to be enough

0:51:47.280 --> 0:51:52.279
<v Speaker 2>in and of itself to get you to the other side.

0:51:52.719 --> 0:51:56.120
<v Speaker 2>I have a beautiful family and my health. I have

0:51:56.160 --> 0:51:58.680
<v Speaker 2>a really nice group of people to play with on

0:51:58.719 --> 0:52:02.640
<v Speaker 2>the road. Lucky as a pig and poop to have

0:52:03.600 --> 0:52:06.239
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and twenty shows a year, and to go

0:52:06.280 --> 0:52:10.200
<v Speaker 2>out and make a pretty good living. I feel lucky

0:52:10.200 --> 0:52:13.560
<v Speaker 2>to have that. I don't. I don't look around and

0:52:13.600 --> 0:52:17.520
<v Speaker 2>go crap. I wish I was making, you know, three

0:52:17.600 --> 0:52:21.279
<v Speaker 2>or four hundred thousand dollars a night, you know, And

0:52:21.440 --> 0:52:25.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what that means. I don't. Bob Billen's

0:52:25.680 --> 0:52:28.040
<v Speaker 2>got a lot of money. He doesn't look like it's

0:52:28.120 --> 0:52:32.719
<v Speaker 2>done him a whole lot of good, you know. And

0:52:32.880 --> 0:52:35.000
<v Speaker 2>I love Bob Byllan, but you know, I mean he

0:52:35.480 --> 0:52:38.879
<v Speaker 2>doesn't walk around in Pierre card En suits. I mean

0:52:38.880 --> 0:52:42.719
<v Speaker 2>he's a scruffy guy. That so what does it take?

0:52:42.840 --> 0:52:44.799
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't take much fun.

0:52:45.840 --> 0:52:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Something that is said more directly in your book,

0:52:50.840 --> 0:52:55.960
<v Speaker 1>which you reference earlier. You're basically fired squeezed out of

0:52:56.040 --> 0:53:01.520
<v Speaker 1>the outlaws. In addition, once you we join him, uie

0:53:01.560 --> 0:53:02.240
<v Speaker 1>does it again?

0:53:03.520 --> 0:53:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Right?

0:53:05.600 --> 0:53:07.040
<v Speaker 3>How did you deal with all that?

0:53:09.400 --> 0:53:14.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, there's a The second time didn't mean anything to me.

0:53:14.480 --> 0:53:21.440
<v Speaker 2>I was good to go. I didn't you know there

0:53:21.480 --> 0:53:24.040
<v Speaker 2>the band business let me trying to just put it

0:53:24.080 --> 0:53:28.360
<v Speaker 2>into what I considered to be proper perspective. The band

0:53:28.440 --> 0:53:36.760
<v Speaker 2>business is always leveraged by your perceived value to the group.

0:53:38.040 --> 0:53:43.360
<v Speaker 2>And Jewey saw himself for who he was in that band.

0:53:44.120 --> 0:53:46.839
<v Speaker 2>He's saying, there goes another love song. He's sang green

0:53:46.920 --> 0:53:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Grass and high Tide, and he's sang Ghost Riders in

0:53:49.880 --> 0:53:54.440
<v Speaker 2>the Sky. And I don't know what Hugh he was thinking,

0:53:54.480 --> 0:53:57.919
<v Speaker 2>but I have every reason I believe he probably thought

0:53:58.640 --> 0:54:01.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty much the band and I don't need anyone else.

0:54:02.600 --> 0:54:11.399
<v Speaker 2>But that wasn't true. But but when that mindset sort

0:54:11.440 --> 0:54:16.120
<v Speaker 2>of takes over and you stop being a band with Henry,

0:54:16.360 --> 0:54:19.040
<v Speaker 2>or a band with Billy, or a band like I

0:54:19.080 --> 0:54:25.160
<v Speaker 2>said with Frank, you know, you start to show yourself

0:54:25.200 --> 0:54:33.399
<v Speaker 2>to your audience to be less, not more. And if

0:54:33.440 --> 0:54:37.879
<v Speaker 2>those decisions are financial, and they very well may have been,

0:54:40.320 --> 0:54:42.680
<v Speaker 2>so you get more. What's one hundred percent of nothing?

0:54:44.160 --> 0:54:50.600
<v Speaker 2>You know what's twenty percent of a lot? So I

0:54:50.880 --> 0:54:56.480
<v Speaker 2>you know I in both cases, when I was showing

0:54:56.520 --> 0:55:00.040
<v Speaker 2>the door the first time, it was a signific I

0:55:00.200 --> 0:55:04.279
<v Speaker 2>can blow to the band because I had helped get

0:55:04.360 --> 0:55:09.080
<v Speaker 2>us to where we were. Was not just a musical journey,

0:55:09.120 --> 0:55:17.080
<v Speaker 2>but it was a journey based on knowing where you

0:55:17.160 --> 0:55:20.200
<v Speaker 2>were going. I mean for me to have helped and

0:55:20.280 --> 0:55:23.719
<v Speaker 2>had a hand in the Outlaws, Henry Paul band, the

0:55:23.760 --> 0:55:26.480
<v Speaker 2>Outlaws again and Black I'll go out and get major

0:55:26.520 --> 0:55:30.640
<v Speaker 2>label deals. Hmm, gee, Henry, what did you do in

0:55:30.680 --> 0:55:34.680
<v Speaker 2>the band? I was a good salesman. I could sell it,

0:55:35.719 --> 0:55:38.040
<v Speaker 2>and I looked like a duck, and I had web feet,

0:55:38.560 --> 0:55:41.960
<v Speaker 2>and I quacked when I spoke, and people believed in me.

0:55:43.320 --> 0:55:49.960
<v Speaker 2>They kept giving me opportunities because I was believable. And

0:55:50.520 --> 0:55:54.880
<v Speaker 2>at one point, you know, the Outlaws manager said, Chewi,

0:55:55.760 --> 0:55:58.200
<v Speaker 2>you need to call up Henry because this band's going

0:55:58.239 --> 0:56:01.600
<v Speaker 2>to crack and it's just coming apart and things aren't

0:56:01.640 --> 0:56:04.480
<v Speaker 2>working in You and Hank were great back in the day,

0:56:04.520 --> 0:56:06.080
<v Speaker 2>and you just need to pick up the phone and

0:56:06.120 --> 0:56:10.759
<v Speaker 2>get Henry back in the band and Okay, let's do that.

0:56:12.280 --> 0:56:15.080
<v Speaker 2>And then by nineteen eighty eight we were having a

0:56:15.120 --> 0:56:17.920
<v Speaker 2>lot of fun. We were playing to small audiences. We

0:56:18.000 --> 0:56:22.080
<v Speaker 2>knew we weren't going to come back to some grand career,

0:56:22.239 --> 0:56:27.680
<v Speaker 2>but I was having fun. I had the checkbook. Huey

0:56:27.719 --> 0:56:29.920
<v Speaker 2>and I were making really good money. The band was

0:56:29.920 --> 0:56:36.480
<v Speaker 2>being paid a very very respectable wage, and we were

0:56:36.600 --> 0:56:40.040
<v Speaker 2>riding around the country, playing for fifteen hundred people and

0:56:40.160 --> 0:56:47.439
<v Speaker 2>having a ball. But you know when Hue when Hughey said, well,

0:56:47.480 --> 0:56:51.799
<v Speaker 2>I see what Henry's doing, I see how we're I

0:56:51.920 --> 0:56:56.840
<v Speaker 2>want more, or maybe I think it's good. Take it,

0:56:58.120 --> 0:57:00.839
<v Speaker 2>because I'm going to Nashville and I'm going to do

0:57:00.920 --> 0:57:05.239
<v Speaker 2>something different and I'll see your ass later. And I'm

0:57:05.280 --> 0:57:10.879
<v Speaker 2>good And with my sixty five sting ray cruising down

0:57:10.920 --> 0:57:14.280
<v Speaker 2>the back alley in Nashville, Tennessee, coming up on Hughey

0:57:14.800 --> 0:57:17.280
<v Speaker 2>standing out there one day, you know, in a letter

0:57:17.400 --> 0:57:21.880
<v Speaker 2>skinnered recording session. It didn't hurt my feelings, you know,

0:57:22.040 --> 0:57:25.720
<v Speaker 2>to feel good about myself and the effort that I

0:57:25.880 --> 0:57:30.600
<v Speaker 2>was able to create and show for my hard work.

0:57:30.800 --> 0:57:37.240
<v Speaker 2>And so I don't know, I don't know.

0:57:37.720 --> 0:57:43.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, when you are fired a did you see it? Coming,

0:57:43.600 --> 0:57:46.919
<v Speaker 1>which it sounds like you didn't be in retrospect, because

0:57:46.960 --> 0:57:49.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you've gone over this a million times in

0:57:49.040 --> 0:57:52.120
<v Speaker 1>your life. Certainly at the time, was there anything that

0:57:52.160 --> 0:57:55.760
<v Speaker 1>you could have played different or was it inevitable?

0:57:57.680 --> 0:58:05.160
<v Speaker 2>I think, first of all, I didn't it coming, uh,

0:58:05.240 --> 0:58:08.040
<v Speaker 2>But I wasn't surprised. I mean, I kind of knew

0:58:08.080 --> 0:58:10.840
<v Speaker 2>who I was dealing with all along. It was never,

0:58:12.440 --> 0:58:16.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, a family environment, and the band was always

0:58:16.800 --> 0:58:28.560
<v Speaker 2>somewhat of a business. But I think that it was

0:58:28.680 --> 0:58:33.800
<v Speaker 2>so painful to me and such a such an ego

0:58:35.400 --> 0:58:49.120
<v Speaker 2>destroying moment, and in such a a bitter, hurtful place

0:58:49.480 --> 0:58:56.800
<v Speaker 2>that I was not used to being in that my

0:58:57.080 --> 0:59:04.880
<v Speaker 2>immediate reaction was put a new group together, go get

0:59:04.920 --> 0:59:10.680
<v Speaker 2>another major label deal, find a really a good friend

0:59:10.840 --> 0:59:14.440
<v Speaker 2>to help you with your career, and get back in

0:59:14.520 --> 0:59:19.840
<v Speaker 2>the game. That's what I did, and I found help

0:59:19.880 --> 0:59:22.520
<v Speaker 2>out there from people that were capable of helping me.

0:59:24.480 --> 0:59:29.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you are in the Outlaws. I had seen the

0:59:29.560 --> 0:59:33.680
<v Speaker 1>Outlaws in their heyday opening for the Stones. They had

0:59:34.040 --> 0:59:37.520
<v Speaker 1>big success, certainly with high Tides and green Grass, but

0:59:37.600 --> 0:59:42.000
<v Speaker 1>it was a relatively faceless band. There was not somebody

0:59:42.040 --> 0:59:44.920
<v Speaker 1>who stuck out in front. You're now out of the band.

0:59:45.200 --> 0:59:48.200
<v Speaker 1>You were in a successful band. How do you convince

0:59:48.240 --> 0:59:49.640
<v Speaker 1>Atlantic to give you a deal?

0:59:52.080 --> 0:59:56.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think my role as the frontman for the

0:59:56.160 --> 1:00:02.440
<v Speaker 2>band first and foremost, and I think that my artistic recovery,

1:00:03.840 --> 1:00:08.880
<v Speaker 2>writing songs like gray Ghost, writing songs like so Long,

1:00:10.160 --> 1:00:14.360
<v Speaker 2>writing you know, Hallmark songs that when A and R

1:00:14.480 --> 1:00:18.520
<v Speaker 2>directors listened to them, or executive vice presidents from the

1:00:18.600 --> 1:00:22.200
<v Speaker 2>label listened to him, they said, we loved your in

1:00:22.280 --> 1:00:25.480
<v Speaker 2>the band, We loved the outlaws, we loved you. I

1:00:25.640 --> 1:00:28.200
<v Speaker 2>was somewhat of a more visible member of the group

1:00:28.200 --> 1:00:32.160
<v Speaker 2>because I fronted the band and they wanted they were

1:00:32.240 --> 1:00:40.360
<v Speaker 2>willing to support me. Michael Kleffner was the was the

1:00:40.440 --> 1:00:44.360
<v Speaker 2>vice president of national promotion at Arista, and went out

1:00:44.400 --> 1:00:50.600
<v Speaker 2>and promoted the band at rock oriented radio, album oriented

1:00:50.720 --> 1:00:54.160
<v Speaker 2>rock radio and got green Grass on the air, and

1:00:54.240 --> 1:00:57.280
<v Speaker 2>he and I became really close friends. It was clear

1:00:57.320 --> 1:01:00.120
<v Speaker 2>to me that it wasn't just about the band. It

1:01:00.160 --> 1:01:01.960
<v Speaker 2>was clear to me that it was about the promotion

1:01:02.080 --> 1:01:06.040
<v Speaker 2>department at Arista and the band and the record we made,

1:01:06.400 --> 1:01:09.240
<v Speaker 2>and those people that went out and killed for us.

1:01:09.800 --> 1:01:16.720
<v Speaker 2>So Michael left Arista and got the executive vice presidential

1:01:17.400 --> 1:01:22.880
<v Speaker 2>chair at Atlantic Records under Jerry Greenberg. And when I

1:01:23.000 --> 1:01:28.360
<v Speaker 2>left the Outlaws, Michael said, if you need a budget

1:01:28.360 --> 1:01:31.240
<v Speaker 2>to record demos, let me know. I would like to

1:01:31.320 --> 1:01:36.320
<v Speaker 2>help you. It wasn't a lot of money. Five six

1:01:36.400 --> 1:01:40.000
<v Speaker 2>seventy eight thousand dollars. We went in and cut ten sides,

1:01:40.840 --> 1:01:44.880
<v Speaker 2>brought him to Michael, brought him to Ton Journam, brought

1:01:44.920 --> 1:01:49.880
<v Speaker 2>him to John Kalodner sat down, Yes, we want to

1:01:49.960 --> 1:01:53.480
<v Speaker 2>sign this band. We loved the Outlaws and we love you.

1:01:53.640 --> 1:01:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Henry and Joe Sullivan, you know who managed Charlie Daniels

1:01:58.440 --> 1:02:02.560
<v Speaker 2>said I would love to hand your career. I think

1:02:02.600 --> 1:02:05.520
<v Speaker 2>the world of view. I mean, these people were close

1:02:05.560 --> 1:02:08.760
<v Speaker 2>to me because I invested a lot of myself in

1:02:08.800 --> 1:02:15.480
<v Speaker 2>these relationships. And they said, absolutely, you're on Atlantic Sound

1:02:15.520 --> 1:02:21.240
<v Speaker 2>seventy manages your career, and Paragon is still going to

1:02:21.280 --> 1:02:25.160
<v Speaker 2>represent you in the live music area and you're good

1:02:25.200 --> 1:02:28.800
<v Speaker 2>to goud Us. Oh okay, Now we're out in the

1:02:28.880 --> 1:02:32.120
<v Speaker 2>road with Charlie and skinnered and we're back. Not skinned

1:02:32.160 --> 1:02:35.520
<v Speaker 2>they were gone, but we're out in a road and Tucker,

1:02:35.560 --> 1:02:39.440
<v Speaker 2>we're back with familiar faces doing what we've always done

1:02:39.800 --> 1:02:43.040
<v Speaker 2>and it kind of came. It was kind of coinciding

1:02:43.880 --> 1:02:48.920
<v Speaker 2>with the decline of southern rock. There was a fad,

1:02:49.760 --> 1:02:52.680
<v Speaker 2>a musical moment for that genre, and it hit a

1:02:52.760 --> 1:02:58.640
<v Speaker 2>high water market started to evaporate. Molly Hatchett had come

1:02:58.680 --> 1:03:01.760
<v Speaker 2>onto the scene late in the in the game and

1:03:02.960 --> 1:03:07.960
<v Speaker 2>with a significant amount of commitment from Epic, did very well.

1:03:12.040 --> 1:03:18.080
<v Speaker 2>But the Henry palmband for me was that was was

1:03:18.120 --> 1:03:22.280
<v Speaker 2>a I'm looking for the word, but it was. It

1:03:22.320 --> 1:03:26.680
<v Speaker 2>gave me my self respect back. It gave me, you know,

1:03:26.840 --> 1:03:34.480
<v Speaker 2>my my my opinion of positive opinion of myself, because

1:03:34.800 --> 1:03:38.200
<v Speaker 2>honestly it was it was a hard thing to come

1:03:38.240 --> 1:03:44.280
<v Speaker 2>back from. And uh, you know, without the help and

1:03:44.320 --> 1:03:48.360
<v Speaker 2>support of people that were my friends, and without my

1:03:48.440 --> 1:03:55.080
<v Speaker 2>hard work and focus, I'd have done what Frank did,

1:03:55.080 --> 1:03:58.040
<v Speaker 2>and that would start a painting company in clear Water

1:03:58.160 --> 1:04:03.720
<v Speaker 2>and paint houses. I didn't do that. I fought back

1:04:03.760 --> 1:04:05.640
<v Speaker 2>and got back in the game.

1:04:07.240 --> 1:04:11.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what was the decision to call it the Henry

1:04:11.080 --> 1:04:11.680
<v Speaker 1>Paul Band.

1:04:11.760 --> 1:04:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh Jesus, we just couldn't. First of all, the Charlie

1:04:16.560 --> 1:04:20.360
<v Speaker 2>Daniels band, the Henry Paul band. You know, Joe Sullivan

1:04:20.560 --> 1:04:24.720
<v Speaker 2>was very much inclined to want to hang my name

1:04:24.760 --> 1:04:27.760
<v Speaker 2>on the band. I looked for a name. We all

1:04:27.800 --> 1:04:31.800
<v Speaker 2>looked for a name. We couldn't find a name. I

1:04:31.960 --> 1:04:35.000
<v Speaker 2>was signed to the record deal. The members of the

1:04:35.040 --> 1:04:38.760
<v Speaker 2>group were signed as well, but it was my band,

1:04:39.040 --> 1:04:44.840
<v Speaker 2>and we just couldn't come up with anything better. So

1:04:44.880 --> 1:04:46.880
<v Speaker 2>we just said, well, let's just call it the Henry

1:04:46.920 --> 1:04:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Paul band.

1:04:51.080 --> 1:04:52.960
<v Speaker 1>I doesn't sound like you were happy.

1:04:53.080 --> 1:05:00.880
<v Speaker 2>Well I wasn't happy, but I accepted it. And along

1:05:00.920 --> 1:05:06.280
<v Speaker 2>with that came a little bit more you know, weight pressure. Uh.

1:05:07.360 --> 1:05:09.960
<v Speaker 2>I just kind of went along with it and decided,

1:05:10.000 --> 1:05:13.320
<v Speaker 2>what the hell difference does it make if we're you know,

1:05:13.480 --> 1:05:19.440
<v Speaker 2>the Great Ghost Album has stood a very very significant

1:05:20.160 --> 1:05:24.960
<v Speaker 2>positive test of time. And while it wasn't a record

1:05:24.960 --> 1:05:29.680
<v Speaker 2>that you know, set records at the retail level, it

1:05:29.840 --> 1:05:34.720
<v Speaker 2>was a very respectable record and over the years has

1:05:35.400 --> 1:05:44.200
<v Speaker 2>risen in the ranks of people's opinion. And I was

1:05:44.240 --> 1:05:47.400
<v Speaker 2>ready to lock asses with everybody. I mean, I wanted

1:05:47.440 --> 1:05:51.440
<v Speaker 2>to go on tour with the Outlaws and you know,

1:05:51.560 --> 1:05:55.480
<v Speaker 2>and steal the show. I mean, I you know, I was.

1:05:56.680 --> 1:06:01.920
<v Speaker 2>I was hurt and angry and very ambitious and I

1:06:02.000 --> 1:06:13.880
<v Speaker 2>wanted to get that and you know, it was it

1:06:13.920 --> 1:06:18.400
<v Speaker 2>was a very significant success for me to go to

1:06:18.480 --> 1:06:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Atlantic and to go on the road again and to

1:06:25.080 --> 1:06:29.720
<v Speaker 2>put myself back in a place where I wanted to be.

1:06:29.960 --> 1:06:30.800
<v Speaker 2>It was a big deal.

1:06:38.680 --> 1:06:43.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, those are great achievements. Atlantic sticks with you for

1:06:43.680 --> 1:06:49.160
<v Speaker 1>four albums. There's not a breakout hit. What was the

1:06:49.240 --> 1:06:52.160
<v Speaker 1>experience of being in Atlantic. Were they always on your side?

1:06:52.240 --> 1:06:55.520
<v Speaker 1>Were they saying, hey, you know, we'll make another record

1:06:55.640 --> 1:06:56.440
<v Speaker 1>but this time.

1:06:57.160 --> 1:07:00.919
<v Speaker 2>No, they were on my side. I mean I knew

1:07:00.960 --> 1:07:05.919
<v Speaker 2>every regional promotional director. I knew everybody the label. I'd

1:07:05.960 --> 1:07:07.960
<v Speaker 2>go up to the label when I was in New York.

1:07:08.680 --> 1:07:11.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, Claudner and I were friends. I mean, John

1:07:11.080 --> 1:07:13.800
<v Speaker 2>and I were friends when he was a journalist at

1:07:13.800 --> 1:07:20.320
<v Speaker 2>the Inquirer. That's how we met. And those people were

1:07:20.360 --> 1:07:23.760
<v Speaker 2>definitely pulling for me, and they knew that I hadn't

1:07:23.920 --> 1:07:28.520
<v Speaker 2>found commercial success, but obviously they were unwilling to just

1:07:29.120 --> 1:07:33.800
<v Speaker 2>toss me aside. And this was after Michael was gone.

1:07:34.640 --> 1:07:38.760
<v Speaker 2>The first three records, they were all uniquely different records,

1:07:39.000 --> 1:07:41.439
<v Speaker 2>but they all were very good in what they were.

1:07:42.480 --> 1:07:46.440
<v Speaker 2>The third record, especially by the time I made the

1:07:46.520 --> 1:07:50.520
<v Speaker 2>last record for Atlantic, it was pretty much over and

1:07:50.640 --> 1:07:56.479
<v Speaker 2>I was playing, you know, some different game. MTV had

1:07:56.520 --> 1:07:59.080
<v Speaker 2>come into its own and we were just trying to

1:07:59.120 --> 1:08:02.760
<v Speaker 2>find a way to be in the on the landscape.

1:08:02.760 --> 1:08:05.320
<v Speaker 2>But it wasn't meant to be and it and it

1:08:05.360 --> 1:08:10.360
<v Speaker 2>didn't do anything to help me. And it was a

1:08:10.480 --> 1:08:18.080
<v Speaker 2>very hard lesson to learn about try and be yourself

1:08:18.120 --> 1:08:20.320
<v Speaker 2>and live and die by that and don't try and

1:08:20.680 --> 1:08:23.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, be something that you're not. And that was

1:08:24.439 --> 1:08:27.040
<v Speaker 2>a big Artistically, that was a big lesson for me

1:08:27.080 --> 1:08:33.280
<v Speaker 2>to learn. But I don't know that record has things

1:08:33.320 --> 1:08:37.200
<v Speaker 2>about it that are are good. But the first album,

1:08:37.320 --> 1:08:40.519
<v Speaker 2>the third album, and to a certain extent, the second album,

1:08:40.520 --> 1:08:44.800
<v Speaker 2>all those records were really well written and played. And

1:08:48.360 --> 1:08:53.559
<v Speaker 2>I got to be who I wanted to be. I

1:08:53.600 --> 1:08:55.720
<v Speaker 2>got to stay in a business I want to be.

1:08:56.280 --> 1:08:58.320
<v Speaker 2>Our tour. It wasn't a whole lot of money, but

1:08:58.400 --> 1:09:00.160
<v Speaker 2>there was money enough for us to make a living,

1:09:00.520 --> 1:09:03.880
<v Speaker 2>and we toured heavily and I got to stay in

1:09:03.920 --> 1:09:04.280
<v Speaker 2>the game.

1:09:05.680 --> 1:09:11.680
<v Speaker 1>Claudner ultimately goes to Geffen. Claudner is a guy with opinions.

1:09:12.439 --> 1:09:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Did you converse with him? Did he give you input?

1:09:15.560 --> 1:09:24.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes? A lot, But you know, John was good. John

1:09:25.080 --> 1:09:32.559
<v Speaker 2>was helped make some very good decisions for me and

1:09:32.760 --> 1:09:42.040
<v Speaker 2>John tried really hard to help me. Uh but you know,

1:09:42.120 --> 1:09:47.160
<v Speaker 2>when John went to Geffen and cozy it up with

1:09:47.320 --> 1:09:52.960
<v Speaker 2>the people at Aerosmith, you know, and started wearing the

1:09:52.960 --> 1:09:57.559
<v Speaker 2>white suit, it just was a different version of him.

1:09:58.120 --> 1:10:00.400
<v Speaker 2>He and I were really good friends for a lo time.

1:10:01.000 --> 1:10:07.879
<v Speaker 2>When I would go to La myself, John Klaudner, Mary Turner,

1:10:09.040 --> 1:10:13.679
<v Speaker 2>Sam Bellamy and Paraquak Kelly, those people we were in separate.

1:10:15.080 --> 1:10:19.240
<v Speaker 2>Pat Kelly, we were inseparable, though we would do everything together.

1:10:19.320 --> 1:10:22.639
<v Speaker 2>We'd go out together, we'd go to bars and drink,

1:10:22.720 --> 1:10:27.800
<v Speaker 2>we'd have That was my socials core in Los Angeles.

1:10:28.400 --> 1:10:33.080
<v Speaker 2>And Jim Ladd lured me up to his house on

1:10:33.080 --> 1:10:37.680
<v Speaker 2>the hill with a stupid railroad car and I did

1:10:37.720 --> 1:10:42.360
<v Speaker 2>an interview that I deeply regret. We got to drinking

1:10:42.439 --> 1:10:47.639
<v Speaker 2>in the afternoon. But in La John was a friend

1:10:47.720 --> 1:10:51.439
<v Speaker 2>and we just were really close. And Pat Kelly and

1:10:51.479 --> 1:10:56.679
<v Speaker 2>I we still remain friends. He's had serious health issues.

1:10:56.760 --> 1:11:01.960
<v Speaker 2>I feel bad for Pat because you know, has been

1:11:02.760 --> 1:11:06.559
<v Speaker 2>not well. I still talk to Sam every now and then.

1:11:09.080 --> 1:11:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Mary's gone. She she married.

1:11:19.200 --> 1:11:25.320
<v Speaker 1>Up, although now they're both gone. In any event, you've

1:11:25.360 --> 1:11:30.240
<v Speaker 1>got a family, you've got kids, you're done with Atlantic.

1:11:30.800 --> 1:11:31.960
<v Speaker 1>What goes through your head.

1:11:34.280 --> 1:11:39.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, going back to the Outlaws, there was a feeling

1:11:39.439 --> 1:11:44.280
<v Speaker 2>of success in going back, like being in Like do

1:11:44.320 --> 1:11:45.880
<v Speaker 2>you want to come back in the band? Because I

1:11:45.920 --> 1:11:48.320
<v Speaker 2>think it'd be better if you were in the group.

1:11:48.400 --> 1:11:53.000
<v Speaker 2>That was helpful to me from the standpoint of my

1:11:53.760 --> 1:12:01.719
<v Speaker 2>self esteem. For the first two or three years, from

1:12:01.760 --> 1:12:06.639
<v Speaker 2>like eighty three eighty four, it was a little bit.

1:12:08.360 --> 1:12:11.599
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't what dreams were made of. We were flying,

1:12:11.760 --> 1:12:19.280
<v Speaker 2>we were renting cars. It wasn't fun for me. There

1:12:19.360 --> 1:12:24.880
<v Speaker 2>was substance issues, which there normally are, and we hadn't

1:12:24.880 --> 1:12:30.559
<v Speaker 2>gotten past that. On my part, you know, I was

1:12:30.640 --> 1:12:37.520
<v Speaker 2>not wholesale invested in what that was. I always kept

1:12:37.520 --> 1:12:41.880
<v Speaker 2>my distance to a certain extent from that. But at

1:12:41.920 --> 1:12:54.120
<v Speaker 2>one point I fired our manager slash road manager. He

1:12:54.200 --> 1:12:55.960
<v Speaker 2>was a great guy, and he was an agent at

1:12:56.000 --> 1:12:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Paragon who got in our corner and really tried to

1:12:58.960 --> 1:13:03.680
<v Speaker 2>help us. But he was but he was expensive and

1:13:05.280 --> 1:13:12.479
<v Speaker 2>when I asked him, you know, the try looking for

1:13:12.560 --> 1:13:17.880
<v Speaker 2>something else to do. I got control of the band

1:13:17.880 --> 1:13:22.479
<v Speaker 2>financially and I turned it around. I turned it around

1:13:22.479 --> 1:13:28.240
<v Speaker 2>for Hueye and myself and I had a lot of

1:13:28.280 --> 1:13:32.639
<v Speaker 2>fun In nineteen eighty five, six eighty seven. We cut

1:13:32.680 --> 1:13:37.240
<v Speaker 2>that record for Spencer Crawfer, and you know, it was

1:13:37.320 --> 1:13:40.280
<v Speaker 2>an odd record. We kept trying to get into the

1:13:40.320 --> 1:13:43.559
<v Speaker 2>record business, but the more we tried, the more it

1:13:43.560 --> 1:13:45.840
<v Speaker 2>became clear that we weren't going to come back and

1:13:46.720 --> 1:13:51.080
<v Speaker 2>have a new life. But I had a really lot

1:13:51.120 --> 1:13:58.880
<v Speaker 2>of fun touring around the United States playing smaller venues,

1:14:00.840 --> 1:14:06.679
<v Speaker 2>and we had a good band. I bought a conversion band,

1:14:08.880 --> 1:14:13.240
<v Speaker 2>and Hughie and I the band, the five people in

1:14:13.280 --> 1:14:17.080
<v Speaker 2>the band, and the road manager, this nice Jewish boy

1:14:17.120 --> 1:14:20.479
<v Speaker 2>from Long Island who I had shown the Ropes to

1:14:20.560 --> 1:14:24.599
<v Speaker 2>and he was a really sweet and very hard working guy,

1:14:24.920 --> 1:14:29.280
<v Speaker 2>and I loved him. He was our road manager. And

1:14:29.320 --> 1:14:34.840
<v Speaker 2>the six of us were traveling this in this conversion ban.

1:14:36.479 --> 1:14:40.240
<v Speaker 2>It was great. We booked shows they were all within

1:14:40.479 --> 1:14:43.880
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and fifty two three hundred miles, and we'd

1:14:43.920 --> 1:14:46.519
<v Speaker 2>stay overnight at the hotel. We'd get up in the morning.

1:14:46.560 --> 1:14:49.599
<v Speaker 2>We put our suitcase in the conversion band. We're all

1:14:49.680 --> 1:14:52.080
<v Speaker 2>six of us by land. We drive to the next

1:14:52.120 --> 1:14:56.639
<v Speaker 2>town and there was a rider of fifteen foot rider

1:14:56.760 --> 1:14:59.559
<v Speaker 2>cube truck with our gear in it, and there were

1:14:59.560 --> 1:15:02.200
<v Speaker 2>two or three crew members and they would leave and

1:15:02.240 --> 1:15:04.200
<v Speaker 2>they would go do their thing, and we would show

1:15:04.280 --> 1:15:09.040
<v Speaker 2>up in time to check into the hotel for me

1:15:09.120 --> 1:15:11.759
<v Speaker 2>to go put on my running shorts and go run

1:15:12.560 --> 1:15:14.960
<v Speaker 2>thirty or forty minutes and come back and shower to

1:15:15.040 --> 1:15:17.920
<v Speaker 2>a sound check, eat my stupid food that I was

1:15:17.960 --> 1:15:21.559
<v Speaker 2>eating back then, and go put on a great show,

1:15:22.200 --> 1:15:25.640
<v Speaker 2>go back to the hotel, go to bed, get up

1:15:25.680 --> 1:15:27.639
<v Speaker 2>the next morning. It was just great. We had it,

1:15:29.800 --> 1:15:32.000
<v Speaker 2>I had it figured out, and we were doing good.

1:15:33.360 --> 1:15:37.560
<v Speaker 2>Hue and I were making a pretty good living. And

1:15:39.720 --> 1:15:45.280
<v Speaker 2>that lasted from eighty six, eighty five, eighty six, eighty six,

1:15:45.400 --> 1:15:48.880
<v Speaker 2>eighty seven, eighty eight. At the end of the New

1:15:48.960 --> 1:15:52.200
<v Speaker 2>Year's Eve of nineteen eighty eight was my last show

1:15:52.360 --> 1:15:59.280
<v Speaker 2>in the band, and I had talked to Hughie and

1:15:59.320 --> 1:16:02.360
<v Speaker 2>he said, I, I would really like to go it alone.

1:16:02.640 --> 1:16:06.240
<v Speaker 2>And I said, well, Buster, if that's what you want,

1:16:06.920 --> 1:16:09.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm good with that. I get it, and I'm good

1:16:09.439 --> 1:16:12.960
<v Speaker 2>to go. Because I knew I was going to go

1:16:13.000 --> 1:16:16.040
<v Speaker 2>to Nashville. I had a friend of mine in my ear,

1:16:16.120 --> 1:16:21.200
<v Speaker 2>and I thought, well, if you want the band by yourself,

1:16:21.200 --> 1:16:24.880
<v Speaker 2>you can have it, and I'm happy to leave. And

1:16:24.920 --> 1:16:28.080
<v Speaker 2>so I left. One of the other guys in the

1:16:28.120 --> 1:16:34.960
<v Speaker 2>band left as well, and Hughey struck out on his own,

1:16:36.439 --> 1:16:41.120
<v Speaker 2>and like from nineteen eighty nine through nineteen ninety four

1:16:41.240 --> 1:16:48.120
<v Speaker 2>or five was a pretty difficult stretch for the Outlaws.

1:16:48.360 --> 1:16:53.160
<v Speaker 2>From what I hear numbers, the whole thing got really

1:16:55.120 --> 1:17:00.759
<v Speaker 2>a bit ugly. But I went back back to Tampa.

1:17:01.000 --> 1:17:04.800
<v Speaker 2>I took the conversion vand I sold it. It was

1:17:04.840 --> 1:17:10.519
<v Speaker 2>an immaculate condition. I bought a SUV. I bought a

1:17:10.560 --> 1:17:14.840
<v Speaker 2>couple of properties in Tampa, and I renovated them and

1:17:15.120 --> 1:17:18.840
<v Speaker 2>turned them over for a pretty good profit. Started to

1:17:18.880 --> 1:17:23.040
<v Speaker 2>commute to Nashville and write songs. I drive to Nashville,

1:17:23.080 --> 1:17:30.240
<v Speaker 2>seven hundred miles ten hours. I'd pull up to my

1:17:30.360 --> 1:17:33.200
<v Speaker 2>manager's house in Nashville, a guy by the name of

1:17:33.280 --> 1:17:40.040
<v Speaker 2>Rick Alter. And I get up Monday or Tuesday morning,

1:17:40.080 --> 1:17:42.880
<v Speaker 2>and I'd booked four or five writing appointments for the week.

1:17:44.400 --> 1:17:48.000
<v Speaker 2>And I come back Friday, and I get in my

1:17:48.160 --> 1:17:50.920
<v Speaker 2>truck and I drive home, and I had a little

1:17:53.960 --> 1:17:56.040
<v Speaker 2>home studio, and i'd go up and I had demo

1:17:56.200 --> 1:18:00.000
<v Speaker 2>the three or four or five songs. Two weeks later,

1:18:00.160 --> 1:18:02.800
<v Speaker 2>I'd ride back and I just kept doing that. I

1:18:02.840 --> 1:18:10.280
<v Speaker 2>would make twenty trips a year and I compile this

1:18:10.439 --> 1:18:15.880
<v Speaker 2>body of work and Rick played it for Dubois, who

1:18:17.520 --> 1:18:21.800
<v Speaker 2>had just opened RAST in Nashville. He loved it. He said,

1:18:21.840 --> 1:18:26.639
<v Speaker 2>I love Hank's voice. And so he took me around

1:18:26.680 --> 1:18:29.080
<v Speaker 2>to the publishers and said, I'm going to sign Henry.

1:18:31.760 --> 1:18:35.200
<v Speaker 2>He wants it needs a pub deal. So I signed

1:18:35.240 --> 1:18:39.639
<v Speaker 2>with EMI and they gave me, you know, six figures

1:18:39.680 --> 1:18:41.760
<v Speaker 2>over three years, enough for me to live on day.

1:18:41.840 --> 1:18:47.120
<v Speaker 2>My bills continue to develop my career, and Blackhawk was formed.

1:18:48.520 --> 1:18:50.759
<v Speaker 2>And I'll be damned if I wasn't back on aris

1:18:50.800 --> 1:18:57.760
<v Speaker 2>To Records with a really really strong new album that

1:18:58.600 --> 1:19:00.640
<v Speaker 2>sold a couple of millions copies.

1:19:03.120 --> 1:19:08.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay for the last handful of years, everybody's going to Nashville.

1:19:09.439 --> 1:19:12.120
<v Speaker 1>How did you know to go to Nashville? Thirty five years.

1:19:11.960 --> 1:19:18.719
<v Speaker 2>Ago, I was at the Florida State Fair. It's in Tampa,

1:19:19.120 --> 1:19:22.679
<v Speaker 2>and my then wife and I and the kids were there,

1:19:22.720 --> 1:19:26.719
<v Speaker 2>were you know, kids were there. I saw these people

1:19:26.800 --> 1:19:30.240
<v Speaker 2>standing in this really long line. They were waiting to

1:19:30.280 --> 1:19:35.479
<v Speaker 2>get into the grandstand. The jugs were playing, and as

1:19:35.520 --> 1:19:37.759
<v Speaker 2>I walked by this line of people, I kept looking

1:19:37.800 --> 1:19:43.040
<v Speaker 2>at them and I thought to myself, they looked like fans.

1:19:43.120 --> 1:19:46.640
<v Speaker 2>To me, those people look like people that would that

1:19:46.800 --> 1:19:49.519
<v Speaker 2>came to the Outlaws show or came to Henry Paul

1:19:49.560 --> 1:19:53.680
<v Speaker 2>Bancho Goos. And I always had loved country music and

1:19:53.840 --> 1:19:57.000
<v Speaker 2>was more or less seen as the country music influence

1:19:57.040 --> 1:20:04.439
<v Speaker 2>in the band. And I had a songwriting partner that

1:20:04.560 --> 1:20:07.880
<v Speaker 2>told me, he said, HENK, if you just declare that

1:20:07.920 --> 1:20:10.280
<v Speaker 2>you're a country music singer and go to Nashville, you

1:20:10.320 --> 1:20:13.639
<v Speaker 2>can do this. So I kind of took his word

1:20:13.720 --> 1:20:17.160
<v Speaker 2>for it. I took my own sort of instincts, my

1:20:17.280 --> 1:20:22.599
<v Speaker 2>own work ethic, and my own salesmanship. I went to

1:20:22.680 --> 1:20:28.640
<v Speaker 2>Nashville and started this would be nineteen ninety ninety one,

1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:38.280
<v Speaker 2>started to work towards becoming a recording artist again. And

1:20:38.360 --> 1:20:41.680
<v Speaker 2>in my drive back and forth from Tampa to Nashville,

1:20:41.960 --> 1:20:46.560
<v Speaker 2>I'd passed these silver eagles going up and down the

1:20:46.680 --> 1:20:48.960
<v Speaker 2>road and I just looked at those buses and I

1:20:49.120 --> 1:21:02.160
<v Speaker 2>just dreamed getting back on and being bad. So Dan

1:21:02.280 --> 1:21:07.240
<v Speaker 2>Stevenson and Dave Robbins and I formed the group. Tim

1:21:07.439 --> 1:21:13.360
<v Speaker 2>was a songwriting partner of theirs, and they came to

1:21:13.439 --> 1:21:15.200
<v Speaker 2>him one day and said, we want to start a

1:21:15.240 --> 1:21:19.360
<v Speaker 2>band or something. What do you think And he said well,

1:21:19.640 --> 1:21:22.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm working with Henry. I think if you guys want

1:21:22.840 --> 1:21:25.760
<v Speaker 2>to work with Hank, he's got a great voice, and

1:21:27.040 --> 1:21:29.640
<v Speaker 2>I think that there might be something good come from it.

1:21:30.360 --> 1:21:34.000
<v Speaker 2>And we all saw that as a very real opportunity.

1:21:34.040 --> 1:21:38.080
<v Speaker 2>We knew that if we could focus on doing what

1:21:38.120 --> 1:21:39.800
<v Speaker 2>we were asked to do and do it right, we

1:21:39.880 --> 1:21:42.559
<v Speaker 2>could have what we wanted. And we did. We got

1:21:42.600 --> 1:21:47.000
<v Speaker 2>what we wanted and he I talked to Tim the

1:21:47.080 --> 1:21:50.400
<v Speaker 2>other day and I said, you know, Tim, I always

1:21:50.520 --> 1:21:53.240
<v Speaker 2>think about you, and I always thank you for the

1:21:53.280 --> 1:21:57.280
<v Speaker 2>opportunity you gave me late in my life, as I

1:21:57.320 --> 1:21:59.960
<v Speaker 2>was forty three years old and people that age didn't

1:22:00.040 --> 1:22:05.360
<v Speaker 2>get record deals. And he said, well, Henry, I know

1:22:05.400 --> 1:22:07.400
<v Speaker 2>what you're saying, but he said, I got to tell

1:22:07.439 --> 1:22:10.240
<v Speaker 2>you you made good on it. You made good on

1:22:10.320 --> 1:22:17.080
<v Speaker 2>the opportunity you would give it. And I thought about that,

1:22:17.200 --> 1:22:19.840
<v Speaker 2>and I thought, well, you're right, we did. I mean,

1:22:19.960 --> 1:22:23.240
<v Speaker 2>think about if you're a record executive and you've got

1:22:23.720 --> 1:22:27.640
<v Speaker 2>Alan Jackson Brooks and Dunn Blackhawk, a Diamond Rio and

1:22:27.680 --> 1:22:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Pam Tillis all selling platinum and multi platinum records, what

1:22:31.960 --> 1:22:36.559
<v Speaker 2>do you think the bonus structure was probably through the

1:22:36.680 --> 1:22:42.439
<v Speaker 2>roof so they were rolling. We had careers. You know,

1:22:42.479 --> 1:22:45.680
<v Speaker 2>we were on the road making a living playing live shows.

1:22:46.680 --> 1:22:51.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think it's important to recognize a performer's

1:22:51.680 --> 1:22:56.280
<v Speaker 2>place in the mix. You might make a lot of

1:22:56.280 --> 1:22:59.800
<v Speaker 2>money if you've become a household name. I mean, you

1:23:00.040 --> 1:23:01.720
<v Speaker 2>have to go out and really work hard for it

1:23:01.720 --> 1:23:05.120
<v Speaker 2>and leave your home. But these guys in the record

1:23:05.120 --> 1:23:09.240
<v Speaker 2>business were businessmen making money, a lot of money, a

1:23:09.280 --> 1:23:13.599
<v Speaker 2>lot more money than we ever made. But we were

1:23:13.640 --> 1:23:20.680
<v Speaker 2>like these, you know, artistically inclined dreamers that could not

1:23:22.000 --> 1:23:27.200
<v Speaker 2>give up the idea of being a musical personality that

1:23:27.240 --> 1:23:32.160
<v Speaker 2>people loved. And that was the that was the attraction,

1:23:32.360 --> 1:23:35.400
<v Speaker 2>and that's what we did. But the Heiress, the thing

1:23:35.439 --> 1:23:38.160
<v Speaker 2>in Nashville was huge to me, it was huge.

1:23:39.400 --> 1:23:42.880
<v Speaker 1>So what was different about the Nashville country business as

1:23:42.880 --> 1:23:45.520
<v Speaker 1>opposed to the New York LA rock business.

1:23:46.680 --> 1:23:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, the New York l A rock business, you were

1:23:48.920 --> 1:23:54.519
<v Speaker 2>so far away from it. I mean, I'm a earl again.

1:23:57.720 --> 1:24:03.320
<v Speaker 2>Ovid Henri go in his office, put my record on

1:24:03.360 --> 1:24:07.800
<v Speaker 2>the turntable and put the needle down. You know, that's

1:24:07.800 --> 1:24:14.040
<v Speaker 2>a good soul Madri. I liked that song. Yeah, that

1:24:14.160 --> 1:24:18.160
<v Speaker 2>was it. That was it. That was it. That was

1:24:18.240 --> 1:24:20.960
<v Speaker 2>my rapport with Arma. You know that once a year,

1:24:21.000 --> 1:24:23.000
<v Speaker 2>I go in the office and I play my record.

1:24:24.240 --> 1:24:30.439
<v Speaker 2>You know, Jerry Greenberg and I were pretty friendly, you know,

1:24:30.680 --> 1:24:33.800
<v Speaker 2>on a business level. He would invite me to go

1:24:33.960 --> 1:24:38.720
<v Speaker 2>fishing in his birtroom and we would you know, we

1:24:38.760 --> 1:24:42.840
<v Speaker 2>would do things like that. But with Ariston Nashville, it

1:24:42.960 --> 1:24:46.400
<v Speaker 2>was like now Tim and I. He runs the label.

1:24:47.240 --> 1:24:51.200
<v Speaker 2>He and I are the same age, were the same age.

1:24:51.479 --> 1:25:00.360
<v Speaker 2>We have so many like minded life experiences. And he's

1:25:00.439 --> 1:25:05.960
<v Speaker 2>running the label and I'm out promoting my career at radio.

1:25:06.840 --> 1:25:11.840
<v Speaker 2>He's paying for it. And radio decides they want to

1:25:11.880 --> 1:25:18.400
<v Speaker 2>play our record, and Arista they don't make them play

1:25:18.439 --> 1:25:24.040
<v Speaker 2>in my record, but they're very they're very convincing, and

1:25:25.680 --> 1:25:35.960
<v Speaker 2>they get our record played. And now Huey Thomason, who

1:25:36.080 --> 1:25:43.240
<v Speaker 2>was the voice of the Outlaws, I'm the voice of Blackhawk.

1:25:45.360 --> 1:25:47.640
<v Speaker 2>Now I'm in the you know, the catbird seat a

1:25:47.640 --> 1:25:52.600
<v Speaker 2>little bit, and it doesn't feel bad. And I have

1:25:52.720 --> 1:25:55.880
<v Speaker 2>to say that during those year or two of going

1:25:55.920 --> 1:26:00.519
<v Speaker 2>back and forth and being in my home studio, to

1:26:00.640 --> 1:26:04.719
<v Speaker 2>my credit, I learned a lot about how to sing

1:26:05.640 --> 1:26:08.479
<v Speaker 2>as a singer. I learned a lot about myself it

1:26:08.640 --> 1:26:12.559
<v Speaker 2>was so important. It was the difference between success and

1:26:12.920 --> 1:26:18.400
<v Speaker 2>beg and so I learned a lot late in the

1:26:18.439 --> 1:26:28.160
<v Speaker 2>game about things that mattered, and it came at the

1:26:28.240 --> 1:26:32.840
<v Speaker 2>right time, and it was very important from the standpoint

1:26:32.840 --> 1:26:37.200
<v Speaker 2>of my success. I also knew a lot about the

1:26:37.240 --> 1:26:40.680
<v Speaker 2>politics of writing songs with other people. Jim Peterick and

1:26:40.720 --> 1:26:44.920
<v Speaker 2>I wrote a lot together. John Townsend and I wrote

1:26:44.960 --> 1:26:48.360
<v Speaker 2>a lot together. I went to National Van Stevenson and

1:26:48.439 --> 1:26:50.479
<v Speaker 2>I wrote a lot together. You get in a room

1:26:50.520 --> 1:26:53.839
<v Speaker 2>with somebody and you don't want to be an ogre.

1:26:54.560 --> 1:26:57.360
<v Speaker 2>You're trying to collaborate, and I learned a lot about

1:26:57.400 --> 1:27:06.400
<v Speaker 2>how to do that. It was an enormous learning experience.

1:27:14.640 --> 1:27:19.120
<v Speaker 1>Okay, over these decades, do you ever think of going

1:27:19.200 --> 1:27:21.320
<v Speaker 1>straight giving up?

1:27:24.000 --> 1:27:31.920
<v Speaker 2>I thought you meant in a sexual sort of way.

1:27:34.320 --> 1:27:41.960
<v Speaker 2>There was a moment when if my dad had asked me, Henry,

1:27:44.560 --> 1:27:48.200
<v Speaker 2>I need your help on the farm. I want to

1:27:48.240 --> 1:27:52.760
<v Speaker 2>retire and want I need help. If I think there

1:27:52.800 --> 1:27:54.680
<v Speaker 2>was a moment where if you had asked me to

1:27:54.760 --> 1:27:57.760
<v Speaker 2>do that, I might have done it because I was

1:27:57.800 --> 1:28:03.640
<v Speaker 2>so emotionally invested in our family farm. But he never asked,

1:28:04.800 --> 1:28:08.880
<v Speaker 2>and so I never had the opportunity to do that.

1:28:11.360 --> 1:28:15.719
<v Speaker 2>That was the only thing that could have possibly taken

1:28:15.760 --> 1:28:17.280
<v Speaker 2>me out of the chair and put me in a

1:28:17.280 --> 1:28:27.160
<v Speaker 2>different walk of life. Other than that, I was. I

1:28:27.200 --> 1:28:30.479
<v Speaker 2>don't know why, but I think it was just my

1:28:30.920 --> 1:28:37.559
<v Speaker 2>artistic inclination to want to succeed at something like being

1:28:37.600 --> 1:28:41.600
<v Speaker 2>a recording artist, because very early on, my dream was

1:28:41.640 --> 1:28:45.240
<v Speaker 2>to be a recording artist. That's all I wanted to be.

1:28:46.520 --> 1:28:50.800
<v Speaker 2>And when I got to be that, then came the

1:28:50.840 --> 1:28:55.439
<v Speaker 2>commercial gauntlet that allows you to continue to do and

1:28:55.479 --> 1:28:59.720
<v Speaker 2>be that. And I navigated that with a great deal

1:28:59.760 --> 1:29:05.280
<v Speaker 2>of finesse and forethought.

1:29:07.360 --> 1:29:10.800
<v Speaker 1>Let's stop there for a second. The finesse, the forethought.

1:29:11.520 --> 1:29:15.880
<v Speaker 1>You talk about being a good salesman. Can you expand

1:29:15.960 --> 1:29:18.200
<v Speaker 1>upon those things? How exactly do you do it?

1:29:18.760 --> 1:29:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Well? I just thought my vision of a creative entity,

1:29:23.840 --> 1:29:28.960
<v Speaker 2>my vision of what I saw well I went towards

1:29:29.600 --> 1:29:36.639
<v Speaker 2>as an idea was valid, it was appealing, It looked

1:29:36.840 --> 1:29:43.400
<v Speaker 2>and sounded good. The people I surrounded myself were there

1:29:43.400 --> 1:29:46.639
<v Speaker 2>to help me get to where I wanted to go.

1:29:47.880 --> 1:29:52.240
<v Speaker 2>We were musical partners, but they were asked to be

1:29:52.400 --> 1:30:00.559
<v Speaker 2>my partner in these bands because I needed them, they

1:30:00.640 --> 1:30:08.479
<v Speaker 2>needed me, And whether it was successful on one level,

1:30:09.040 --> 1:30:14.000
<v Speaker 2>not so successful on another, or ultimately very successful. They

1:30:14.080 --> 1:30:21.479
<v Speaker 2>all had very visible and tangible sort of destinations. They

1:30:21.520 --> 1:30:24.080
<v Speaker 2>were a place that I knew I was going and

1:30:24.160 --> 1:30:25.720
<v Speaker 2>what it was going to look and sound like.

1:30:26.960 --> 1:30:31.280
<v Speaker 1>And okay, but on a one on one basis, I mean,

1:30:31.720 --> 1:30:35.040
<v Speaker 1>some people get them in a room, they close you. Okay,

1:30:35.680 --> 1:30:40.840
<v Speaker 1>was it? You obviously had to convey this vision and

1:30:41.800 --> 1:30:46.280
<v Speaker 1>convince people to work with you. So how did you

1:30:46.400 --> 1:30:49.439
<v Speaker 1>find that you did it? Was it about Okay, let's

1:30:49.479 --> 1:30:50.920
<v Speaker 1>go off for a couple of beers, I got a

1:30:50.960 --> 1:30:53.800
<v Speaker 1>story to tell you, or get me in the room

1:30:53.800 --> 1:30:56.240
<v Speaker 1>with a guy can say yes, I'll put on my

1:30:56.400 --> 1:30:57.519
<v Speaker 1>show and it'll go.

1:30:58.520 --> 1:31:03.040
<v Speaker 2>I think it was all. It was connected like a railroad,

1:31:03.479 --> 1:31:08.880
<v Speaker 2>like a train. My role in the Outlaws provided for

1:31:09.040 --> 1:31:12.360
<v Speaker 2>me the opportunity for my role in the Henry Paul Band.

1:31:12.920 --> 1:31:14.920
<v Speaker 2>My role in the Outlaws and my role in the

1:31:14.960 --> 1:31:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Henry Paul Band provided for me an opportunity to go

1:31:18.680 --> 1:31:23.000
<v Speaker 2>to Nashville and to be accepted. I'm writing with Henry

1:31:23.040 --> 1:31:26.400
<v Speaker 2>Paul from the Outlaws. You remember the Outlaws?

1:31:26.720 --> 1:31:26.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

1:31:27.040 --> 1:31:32.960
<v Speaker 2>I love the alas I'm writing with Henry today. Well,

1:31:33.000 --> 1:31:35.439
<v Speaker 2>you can't just go in and write with this person.

1:31:36.680 --> 1:31:39.679
<v Speaker 2>They got to see something in the way of promise.

1:31:40.240 --> 1:31:46.120
<v Speaker 2>So I showed at every turn promise. Henry's really good,

1:31:46.160 --> 1:31:51.920
<v Speaker 2>he's smart. Henry's smart. He's really smart. He's good. You're

1:31:51.960 --> 1:31:55.280
<v Speaker 2>gonna like him. He's a really great guy. And man,

1:31:55.320 --> 1:31:58.559
<v Speaker 2>what he's thinking is pretty cool. And you know, either

1:31:58.600 --> 1:32:03.479
<v Speaker 2>you're onto some thing or your jacket, you know. And

1:32:03.920 --> 1:32:08.479
<v Speaker 2>I felt like I always could see it. I always

1:32:08.720 --> 1:32:11.880
<v Speaker 2>saw what it was going to become, and it became that.

1:32:11.960 --> 1:32:14.880
<v Speaker 2>And that goes for the Outlaws, because before I was

1:32:15.080 --> 1:32:18.559
<v Speaker 2>involved with that band, there was no anything to see.

1:32:18.880 --> 1:32:23.519
<v Speaker 2>It became what I saw. People might not like the

1:32:23.600 --> 1:32:29.000
<v Speaker 2>sound of what that says, but it's absolutely true because

1:32:31.439 --> 1:32:34.439
<v Speaker 2>I knew where we were going, and Huey was a

1:32:34.479 --> 1:32:36.800
<v Speaker 2>big part of it. Billy was a big part of it.

1:32:37.200 --> 1:32:39.479
<v Speaker 2>I was a big part of it, and Frank and

1:32:39.600 --> 1:32:42.040
<v Speaker 2>Monty were a big part of it. But I could

1:32:42.080 --> 1:32:48.479
<v Speaker 2>take the band with my country rock personality at a

1:32:48.520 --> 1:32:51.840
<v Speaker 2>time when that was really important and really happening. The

1:32:51.880 --> 1:32:57.360
<v Speaker 2>Outlaws adapted, adopted that sound, and me with my stupid

1:32:57.439 --> 1:33:01.200
<v Speaker 2>cowboy hat became a part of the band's image and

1:33:01.360 --> 1:33:03.840
<v Speaker 2>everybody in the band started wearing a hat and God

1:33:04.000 --> 1:33:07.920
<v Speaker 2>dang it, Bobby darned if we're not on tour with

1:33:07.960 --> 1:33:14.320
<v Speaker 2>Marshall Tucker. It was just, you know, a social and

1:33:14.680 --> 1:33:18.559
<v Speaker 2>artistic sort of vision that took you down that road

1:33:19.040 --> 1:33:29.880
<v Speaker 2>with cowboy boots and songs, country rock songs, Stay with Me,

1:33:30.120 --> 1:33:35.400
<v Speaker 2>song in the Breeze, Knoxville Girl, you know, green Grass

1:33:35.400 --> 1:33:38.479
<v Speaker 2>and high Tides, there Goes Another love song. Those were

1:33:38.560 --> 1:33:43.519
<v Speaker 2>songs that cast a musical personality and a large part

1:33:43.560 --> 1:33:47.200
<v Speaker 2>of that came from me, and a large part of

1:33:47.240 --> 1:33:51.479
<v Speaker 2>my relationship with Hue was at the heart of it,

1:33:51.680 --> 1:33:55.160
<v Speaker 2>and his relationship as a guitar player with Billy. But

1:33:55.240 --> 1:33:57.920
<v Speaker 2>when I sat down and played my country stuff, Hwey

1:33:58.040 --> 1:34:01.720
<v Speaker 2>sat down went and it was like he knew what

1:34:01.920 --> 1:34:05.800
<v Speaker 2>I was saying, and he and I could be in

1:34:05.840 --> 1:34:08.479
<v Speaker 2>a room with two guitars and people will go, yeah,

1:34:08.520 --> 1:34:12.160
<v Speaker 2>that's great. And that's where it was, and that's how

1:34:12.160 --> 1:34:15.479
<v Speaker 2>we got where we were going because we were one

1:34:15.560 --> 1:34:20.800
<v Speaker 2>plus one equals three. The band was just really good.

1:34:20.880 --> 1:34:24.559
<v Speaker 2>We got lucky putting the people together. Hue and I

1:34:24.680 --> 1:34:28.240
<v Speaker 2>sang good together. Billy came into the band, and suddenly

1:34:28.280 --> 1:34:32.560
<v Speaker 2>we had this guy that could sing like Randy Meisner

1:34:33.840 --> 1:34:37.840
<v Speaker 2>and there was the three part harmony. It was intact,

1:34:39.360 --> 1:34:42.400
<v Speaker 2>and Frank was a good singer, but he didn't participate

1:34:42.439 --> 1:34:45.360
<v Speaker 2>in the vocal part of the band that much. But

1:34:45.439 --> 1:34:47.519
<v Speaker 2>it was all just luck, and it was all just

1:34:47.880 --> 1:34:50.640
<v Speaker 2>being able to see it and make that.

1:34:53.560 --> 1:34:58.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay. When the Outlaws start to become successful, you get

1:34:58.400 --> 1:35:02.559
<v Speaker 1>married and start having children. Was there anything in your

1:35:02.560 --> 1:35:06.040
<v Speaker 1>mind saying, man, this is a whole different road. Is

1:35:06.040 --> 1:35:09.840
<v Speaker 1>this going to impact my career, I'm going to have responsibilities?

1:35:09.880 --> 1:35:11.080
<v Speaker 1>What was going through your head?

1:35:13.280 --> 1:35:19.320
<v Speaker 2>I never I never planned any of that. You know.

1:35:20.160 --> 1:35:28.800
<v Speaker 2>I married a girl who was really supportive of me

1:35:29.040 --> 1:35:35.120
<v Speaker 2>and good to me and who I was really good

1:35:35.160 --> 1:35:40.559
<v Speaker 2>friends with. And our decision to have a family wasn't

1:35:41.439 --> 1:35:44.320
<v Speaker 2>We didn't sit down and say you want to start

1:35:44.360 --> 1:35:49.240
<v Speaker 2>a family. No, it kind of came like, hey, i'm pregnant.

1:35:49.760 --> 1:35:54.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's great, great, let's have a kid. What you know, Uh, yeah,

1:35:54.640 --> 1:36:01.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm good. Hey i'm pregnant again. Well let's have another one.

1:36:01.320 --> 1:36:04.960
<v Speaker 2>You know. But I don't think it had anything that

1:36:05.160 --> 1:36:08.320
<v Speaker 2>I love kids. I'm seventy six, I have a four

1:36:08.400 --> 1:36:11.080
<v Speaker 2>year old is right downstairs. When I get done with

1:36:11.080 --> 1:36:13.759
<v Speaker 2>this interview, I'm gonna go down here. He's gonna wear

1:36:13.800 --> 1:36:17.280
<v Speaker 2>me out. But that's just how I am. I I

1:36:17.320 --> 1:36:24.200
<v Speaker 2>love that about my life. Some people don't have children.

1:36:25.520 --> 1:36:34.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, my career has been very difficult to my family.

1:36:36.240 --> 1:36:38.760
<v Speaker 2>And I was I quoted you a lyric from a song.

1:36:38.840 --> 1:36:41.800
<v Speaker 2>I was going to quote you a lyric from another song.

1:36:42.640 --> 1:36:45.960
<v Speaker 2>The fast life and the music it's just a grim

1:36:46.040 --> 1:36:49.519
<v Speaker 2>disguise for the heartache and the fear of growing old

1:36:50.080 --> 1:36:52.200
<v Speaker 2>without the ones that mean the most. It makes you

1:36:52.280 --> 1:36:55.880
<v Speaker 2>realize that you are the one that's left out in

1:36:55.920 --> 1:37:01.200
<v Speaker 2>the cold. You chase the dream are and you try

1:37:01.240 --> 1:37:05.439
<v Speaker 2>and become somebody so hard that you wake up one

1:37:05.520 --> 1:37:09.840
<v Speaker 2>day and your marriage is not happening, and your kids

1:37:09.880 --> 1:37:13.000
<v Speaker 2>don't know. You know, I never let that happen. But

1:37:13.080 --> 1:37:18.000
<v Speaker 2>I know that I missed a lot, and I know

1:37:18.160 --> 1:37:22.160
<v Speaker 2>it was damaging to my children. It was damaging to

1:37:22.280 --> 1:37:30.120
<v Speaker 2>my marriage. And being privileged in a certain sort of

1:37:30.120 --> 1:37:34.719
<v Speaker 2>way makes it easy to make bad decisions.

1:37:36.520 --> 1:37:39.000
<v Speaker 1>You had a challenged child you write about in the

1:37:39.040 --> 1:37:39.880
<v Speaker 1>book How'd you cope with it?

1:37:39.920 --> 1:37:47.439
<v Speaker 2>Well, she was not death but hearing impaired, and it's

1:37:47.479 --> 1:37:51.080
<v Speaker 2>an invisible handicap and it doesn't show itself like a

1:37:52.280 --> 1:37:56.040
<v Speaker 2>kid in a wheelchair or a kid with a cane

1:37:56.160 --> 1:38:00.600
<v Speaker 2>that can't see. It's a very invisible hand cat, but

1:38:00.640 --> 1:38:05.160
<v Speaker 2>it's a very painful one because when you're deaf, you

1:38:05.560 --> 1:38:11.360
<v Speaker 2>don't get the subtleties of the English language, like oh

1:38:11.439 --> 1:38:16.120
<v Speaker 2>you look great today, I do you know? You don't

1:38:16.200 --> 1:38:22.280
<v Speaker 2>hear the inflection, you don't hear the insinuation. You take

1:38:22.520 --> 1:38:26.559
<v Speaker 2>things more on face favor. This girl got hurt. It

1:38:26.640 --> 1:38:33.439
<v Speaker 2>hurt me to see it happen, and I, along with

1:38:33.479 --> 1:38:37.679
<v Speaker 2>her mom and her sister, you know, tried real hard

1:38:37.720 --> 1:38:43.400
<v Speaker 2>to be there for her. And I wrote a song

1:38:43.479 --> 1:38:47.160
<v Speaker 2>for her on my I'm trying to think of it.

1:38:48.479 --> 1:38:51.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know which record is on, but I wrote

1:38:51.000 --> 1:38:56.840
<v Speaker 2>a song called Circle of Silence, and I remember going

1:38:56.840 --> 1:39:01.000
<v Speaker 2>out into the studio to sing the lead vocal and

1:39:01.160 --> 1:39:04.920
<v Speaker 2>breaking down in the vocal booth because it was such

1:39:04.960 --> 1:39:10.679
<v Speaker 2>an emotional thing and I was able to spit it out.

1:39:10.720 --> 1:39:13.280
<v Speaker 2>But I got to the end and I said, well,

1:39:13.360 --> 1:39:17.160
<v Speaker 2>I'll pull it together, Let's try it again. And the

1:39:17.200 --> 1:39:20.400
<v Speaker 2>guy that was produced in the records said, no, I

1:39:20.400 --> 1:39:22.880
<v Speaker 2>think we want to keep that. I think we want

1:39:22.920 --> 1:39:26.800
<v Speaker 2>to keep that. He heard what I was doing, he

1:39:27.040 --> 1:39:29.920
<v Speaker 2>felt what I was feeling, and he decided to go

1:39:30.080 --> 1:39:32.360
<v Speaker 2>with what I and I think it was a great

1:39:32.400 --> 1:39:36.240
<v Speaker 2>decision at the moment. In the moment, I thought, well,

1:39:36.400 --> 1:39:39.000
<v Speaker 2>let me have another No, I don't think we need

1:39:39.040 --> 1:39:43.120
<v Speaker 2>to do that again. So there was that part of

1:39:43.320 --> 1:39:51.000
<v Speaker 2>my role as a parent that was very demanding and

1:39:51.600 --> 1:39:55.680
<v Speaker 2>took a lot of empathy and a lot of commitment

1:39:55.760 --> 1:39:59.519
<v Speaker 2>to this person who she and I are tight. You know,

1:39:59.560 --> 1:40:04.439
<v Speaker 2>we're we're close. I'm close with all my children. But

1:40:04.560 --> 1:40:09.439
<v Speaker 2>I did miss a lot by trying to, you know,

1:40:10.160 --> 1:40:14.320
<v Speaker 2>go on a road being an entertainer. Right. One of

1:40:14.360 --> 1:40:17.400
<v Speaker 2>the reasons I think I want out now is that

1:40:17.479 --> 1:40:19.240
<v Speaker 2>because I have a four year old and a ten

1:40:19.280 --> 1:40:21.920
<v Speaker 2>year old, you don't want to just keep doing the

1:40:21.960 --> 1:40:25.960
<v Speaker 2>same thing over and over and expect different results. I mean,

1:40:25.960 --> 1:40:28.599
<v Speaker 2>this is an opportunity for me in the late stage

1:40:28.600 --> 1:40:31.519
<v Speaker 2>of my life. How many years do I have left? Ten?

1:40:33.960 --> 1:40:36.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how old you are, but we're not

1:40:36.400 --> 1:40:37.280
<v Speaker 2>going to live forever.

1:40:38.439 --> 1:40:41.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh most people our age. I'm a little younger than you,

1:40:41.280 --> 1:40:43.839
<v Speaker 1>but I'm in my seventies too, And it's like people

1:40:44.320 --> 1:40:46.040
<v Speaker 1>you know are not aware. Oh yeah, they think you'll

1:40:46.080 --> 1:40:49.040
<v Speaker 1>live forever. Nobody's going to live forever, and I want

1:40:49.040 --> 1:40:50.880
<v Speaker 1>to see it coming. It's like I want to prepare

1:40:50.880 --> 1:40:52.519
<v Speaker 1>and do the right things a bit of being supported.

1:40:52.560 --> 1:40:56.280
<v Speaker 2>And it's not just monetary, it's emotional. Like my four

1:40:56.360 --> 1:41:02.400
<v Speaker 2>year old started school this year. He's in pre kindergarten.

1:41:04.200 --> 1:41:08.320
<v Speaker 2>This morning, my wife and I drove the kids to

1:41:08.400 --> 1:41:12.519
<v Speaker 2>school and we pull up and my ten year old

1:41:12.600 --> 1:41:17.880
<v Speaker 2>jumps out and he's gone like the wind. Four year

1:41:17.920 --> 1:41:22.960
<v Speaker 2>old it's out, starts walking down the sidewalk in his

1:41:24.280 --> 1:41:27.040
<v Speaker 2>There's this lady that helps the kids that you get

1:41:27.080 --> 1:41:29.759
<v Speaker 2>to the class and she comes out and she holds

1:41:29.760 --> 1:41:32.880
<v Speaker 2>his hand and he's walking away with a backpack on,

1:41:34.439 --> 1:41:37.559
<v Speaker 2>and he looks over his right looks over his right shoulder.

1:41:44.840 --> 1:41:57.880
<v Speaker 2>It was hard and it was really good, and I

1:41:57.920 --> 1:42:07.479
<v Speaker 2>want that had enough of this? I think I want that.

1:42:09.640 --> 1:42:15.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you get divorced, you get remarried. After a long

1:42:15.320 --> 1:42:18.240
<v Speaker 1>period of time, you talk about the first time we

1:42:18.439 --> 1:42:21.360
<v Speaker 1>went over having kids. Now you're older, was this a

1:42:21.439 --> 1:42:23.960
<v Speaker 1>conscious decision? How did you decide to have kids? Lead

1:42:24.040 --> 1:42:25.519
<v Speaker 1>in life?

1:42:25.880 --> 1:42:31.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, if you get involved with a younger person. It

1:42:31.280 --> 1:42:35.080
<v Speaker 2>was always my opinion that if she wanted to have children,

1:42:35.320 --> 1:42:43.840
<v Speaker 2>was not my right or role to say no, if

1:42:43.880 --> 1:42:46.080
<v Speaker 2>you want to have kids, let's have kids. It's the

1:42:46.160 --> 1:42:49.439
<v Speaker 2>same way the first time around. You I'm pregnant, right,

1:42:50.840 --> 1:42:55.040
<v Speaker 2>So it was a decision to have a family. These

1:42:55.120 --> 1:42:57.640
<v Speaker 2>boys that I have when I'm gone, they're going to

1:42:57.680 --> 1:42:59.600
<v Speaker 2>be really good for their mom. They're going to be

1:42:59.640 --> 1:43:01.679
<v Speaker 2>good to and they're going to take care of her.

1:43:02.560 --> 1:43:04.599
<v Speaker 1>How about the fact that you're not going to be here?

1:43:04.960 --> 1:43:06.479
<v Speaker 1>Is that weigh on your mind at all?

1:43:07.560 --> 1:43:10.800
<v Speaker 2>It does? It? Does? You know? I mean, because I'm

1:43:10.840 --> 1:43:13.360
<v Speaker 2>on the clock more so than I would have been

1:43:13.400 --> 1:43:17.320
<v Speaker 2>if I was in my thirties. And you know, I

1:43:17.360 --> 1:43:19.479
<v Speaker 2>had these three kids with my first wife, and I

1:43:19.640 --> 1:43:27.320
<v Speaker 2>was deeply involved with them in their childhood, in their

1:43:27.360 --> 1:43:31.120
<v Speaker 2>teenage years. You know, I my wife and I at

1:43:31.120 --> 1:43:33.760
<v Speaker 2>that time went are separate ways. I said, I'm going

1:43:33.800 --> 1:43:39.000
<v Speaker 2>to Nashville. I've got to go. Well, she wasn't quite

1:43:39.040 --> 1:43:43.280
<v Speaker 2>so sure, you know, because there was no guarantee, and

1:43:43.320 --> 1:43:48.479
<v Speaker 2>we just kind of went in two separate directions, and

1:43:50.479 --> 1:43:53.280
<v Speaker 2>the kids got roughed up from it. It was not

1:43:54.840 --> 1:44:02.000
<v Speaker 2>easy or good thing to be a party to there again.

1:44:02.080 --> 1:44:05.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, God, dang it, I'm gonna go be this person.

1:44:05.080 --> 1:44:10.400
<v Speaker 2>I gotta go be I gotta go road in Nashville,

1:44:11.720 --> 1:44:17.360
<v Speaker 2>Go Go go. Meanwhile, everything at the house is changing

1:44:18.720 --> 1:44:19.240
<v Speaker 2>without you.

1:44:29.120 --> 1:44:32.479
<v Speaker 1>Okay, there's a period of years between ending it with

1:44:32.520 --> 1:44:37.120
<v Speaker 1>your first wife and meeting your second wife. Let's be clear,

1:44:38.640 --> 1:44:42.320
<v Speaker 1>you're a rock and roll star today. Everybody has a camera.

1:44:42.640 --> 1:44:45.360
<v Speaker 1>But when things were good for you, you go out on

1:44:45.439 --> 1:44:48.840
<v Speaker 1>the road, You're drinking, you're drugging, having sex. To what

1:44:48.960 --> 1:44:51.440
<v Speaker 1>degree did you participate in that lifestyle?

1:44:53.400 --> 1:45:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Uh? Not to the degree that my co work did,

1:45:02.960 --> 1:45:07.559
<v Speaker 2>especially on the drug end of the equation. I could

1:45:07.640 --> 1:45:12.360
<v Speaker 2>see where the edge was, and I might rub up

1:45:12.360 --> 1:45:14.600
<v Speaker 2>to it every now and then, But I was not

1:45:14.880 --> 1:45:19.759
<v Speaker 2>interested in cocaine at all at.

1:45:19.560 --> 1:45:23.080
<v Speaker 1>All, because you did and didn't like it, or you

1:45:23.120 --> 1:45:24.479
<v Speaker 1>thought it was dangerous.

1:45:24.960 --> 1:45:28.320
<v Speaker 2>I did it, and I didn't like it, and I

1:45:28.400 --> 1:45:31.439
<v Speaker 2>knew it was dangerous and I saw what it did

1:45:31.479 --> 1:45:38.320
<v Speaker 2>to other people. Now, marijuana, I was all up in

1:45:38.400 --> 1:45:41.080
<v Speaker 2>the marijuana thing, especially right out of high school in

1:45:41.080 --> 1:45:46.960
<v Speaker 2>the late sixties, back when it was really illegal and

1:45:47.040 --> 1:45:48.720
<v Speaker 2>you want to smoke pot, you had to be a

1:45:48.760 --> 1:45:53.760
<v Speaker 2>countercultural character and live outside the law, and you would

1:45:53.800 --> 1:45:57.599
<v Speaker 2>get hurt legally by it if you got caught. And

1:45:57.640 --> 1:46:07.519
<v Speaker 2>I had my run ends that LSD crazy. Yeah, let's

1:46:08.040 --> 1:46:11.920
<v Speaker 2>that was great. Let's do that again. A little bit

1:46:11.960 --> 1:46:13.800
<v Speaker 2>of that went a long way. But I'm not saying

1:46:13.840 --> 1:46:17.840
<v Speaker 2>I didn't use LSD on a fairly regular basis for

1:46:17.880 --> 1:46:20.040
<v Speaker 2>a while, but I mean, at one point it was like, Okay,

1:46:20.080 --> 1:46:25.519
<v Speaker 2>I'm good, but with a cocaine made me nervous, made

1:46:25.560 --> 1:46:29.080
<v Speaker 2>me jump in. Just the whole thing didn't work for me,

1:46:29.240 --> 1:46:38.120
<v Speaker 2>And so it was significantly harmful to my coworkers in

1:46:38.200 --> 1:46:43.240
<v Speaker 2>ways that I'm not at liberty to discuss. But I

1:46:43.280 --> 1:46:45.840
<v Speaker 2>saw what it was, and I knew I didn't want

1:46:45.880 --> 1:46:49.880
<v Speaker 2>to mess with it, not go down that road, no way.

1:46:51.760 --> 1:46:57.400
<v Speaker 2>But you know the advantages of being a celebrity and

1:46:57.520 --> 1:47:03.320
<v Speaker 2>people wanting to, you know, be close to that because

1:47:03.360 --> 1:47:07.519
<v Speaker 2>it makes them feel good, right, I mean, hey, I'm

1:47:07.720 --> 1:47:11.920
<v Speaker 2>hanging around with the band. I mean, I'm friends with

1:47:12.000 --> 1:47:14.720
<v Speaker 2>the band. You can go watch them on stage, but

1:47:14.800 --> 1:47:18.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm back here hanging out. You know, we're like friends.

1:47:19.280 --> 1:47:33.519
<v Speaker 2>M hm m hmmm. So there's that, and that was harmful.

1:47:38.080 --> 1:47:43.439
<v Speaker 2>Where does the problem start in the fun stop? It's

1:47:43.479 --> 1:47:49.679
<v Speaker 2>hard to really find the line, but it's in there. Oh, well,

1:47:49.720 --> 1:47:52.920
<v Speaker 2>you're a single, now you're single. Now you can do whatever.

1:47:52.920 --> 1:47:57.040
<v Speaker 2>You're well, you're married, what are you doing? You're married? Man,

1:47:57.080 --> 1:48:03.760
<v Speaker 2>what do you do? Really? Yeah, wait a minute, are

1:48:03.760 --> 1:48:17.080
<v Speaker 2>you serious? And then there's that compromise, and I internalize

1:48:17.080 --> 1:48:22.880
<v Speaker 2>it as integrity, but there's a compromise and what seemed

1:48:22.920 --> 1:48:26.800
<v Speaker 2>to pass is recreational fun and games at one point

1:48:26.880 --> 1:48:34.639
<v Speaker 2>became or could become, or often did become problematic and

1:48:35.280 --> 1:48:42.960
<v Speaker 2>structural in its nature, and it just didn't work. At

1:48:42.960 --> 1:48:46.639
<v Speaker 2>one point didn't work, I mean, could be getting older,

1:48:46.880 --> 1:48:50.800
<v Speaker 2>could be growing up and seeing things for what it was.

1:48:52.640 --> 1:48:54.760
<v Speaker 2>It just kind of goes back to those days when

1:48:54.760 --> 1:48:57.080
<v Speaker 2>you're trying so hard to be somebody and you're working

1:48:57.200 --> 1:49:00.519
<v Speaker 2>so hard, you're spending so much time away from home,

1:49:00.680 --> 1:49:08.479
<v Speaker 2>and you know, you're just playing your guitar and shaking

1:49:08.520 --> 1:49:13.280
<v Speaker 2>your ass and trying to, you know, make people like

1:49:13.360 --> 1:49:19.519
<v Speaker 2>you if you're a nice looking guy, you know, and

1:49:19.560 --> 1:49:26.080
<v Speaker 2>you had, you know, things that were part of it.

1:49:26.520 --> 1:49:30.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't think it's a secret that the

1:49:30.120 --> 1:49:33.600
<v Speaker 2>music business is centered in a very sexual sort of

1:49:38.280 --> 1:49:45.320
<v Speaker 2>property and it's it's all about that. And same with film.

1:49:47.040 --> 1:49:52.439
<v Speaker 2>So you know how many Tom Waits's are there, you know,

1:49:52.600 --> 1:49:57.000
<v Speaker 2>to where you're just completely disconnected from anything that looks

1:49:57.080 --> 1:50:03.959
<v Speaker 2>I mean Lindsey Buckingham, for God's sakes, or Nick don Felder,

1:50:04.080 --> 1:50:07.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean name it Elvis compressedly, you know, I mean

1:50:08.000 --> 1:50:11.160
<v Speaker 2>it starts there, goes on and on and on indefinitely,

1:50:11.200 --> 1:50:14.640
<v Speaker 2>and that's part of what it was or is, and

1:50:14.720 --> 1:50:19.720
<v Speaker 2>you have to navigate that. You have to, you know,

1:50:21.720 --> 1:50:28.400
<v Speaker 2>try and manage yourself in a thoughtful and in a

1:50:29.040 --> 1:50:34.080
<v Speaker 2>wise way, because there's so many opportunities to wander off

1:50:34.120 --> 1:50:38.719
<v Speaker 2>the path and become lost.

1:50:41.720 --> 1:50:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Why do you believe you were so driven to be

1:50:44.479 --> 1:50:46.360
<v Speaker 1>successful as a recording artist.

1:50:46.760 --> 1:50:52.639
<v Speaker 2>Just ambitious by nature, my sister's me, our family, our

1:50:52.680 --> 1:51:02.759
<v Speaker 2>family's business, just ambitious, German, hardworking. And then my mom

1:51:03.160 --> 1:51:09.400
<v Speaker 2>and her English upbringing and parents and background, and the heart,

1:51:11.200 --> 1:51:14.479
<v Speaker 2>the heart and the mind, the heart and the feeling

1:51:15.400 --> 1:51:20.320
<v Speaker 2>and the mind just will not accept the feet of failure.

1:51:20.360 --> 1:51:23.479
<v Speaker 2>It just won't take it. It can't. There's no way

1:51:23.520 --> 1:51:24.200
<v Speaker 2>that can happen.

1:51:26.640 --> 1:51:29.280
<v Speaker 1>You mentioned in the book. You know, you're growing up

1:51:29.520 --> 1:51:34.000
<v Speaker 1>in northern New York, relatively speaking, New York's a big

1:51:34.040 --> 1:51:37.240
<v Speaker 1>state and the mountains of New York. Father has a farm,

1:51:37.520 --> 1:51:42.439
<v Speaker 1>parents split up to move to the Florida. What did

1:51:42.479 --> 1:51:47.960
<v Speaker 1>your parents say about your career You weren't instantly successful.

1:51:48.040 --> 1:51:51.479
<v Speaker 1>Were they supportive, were they dismissive? How did they feel

1:51:51.479 --> 1:51:52.599
<v Speaker 1>as the years played out?

1:51:53.240 --> 1:51:57.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it's typical the difference between your mother

1:51:57.240 --> 1:52:03.160
<v Speaker 2>and father. My mother was supportive. She was supportive, like nurturing.

1:52:08.800 --> 1:52:13.920
<v Speaker 2>I got arrested one time for the possession of marijuana.

1:52:14.880 --> 1:52:19.320
<v Speaker 2>Wasn't mine. I just was with a guy who and

1:52:19.560 --> 1:52:23.840
<v Speaker 2>everybody went to jail and I called my mom and

1:52:23.880 --> 1:52:26.360
<v Speaker 2>I said, Mom, I'm in jail and I need you

1:52:26.400 --> 1:52:28.240
<v Speaker 2>to help me get out of jail. It's the bond

1:52:28.320 --> 1:52:32.080
<v Speaker 2>is going to be said at this And before she

1:52:32.240 --> 1:52:37.479
<v Speaker 2>came down to the bail bondsman, she took whatever I

1:52:37.479 --> 1:52:39.439
<v Speaker 2>had in the way in marijuana at the house of flux.

1:52:43.200 --> 1:52:46.439
<v Speaker 2>So my mother, in her own way, you know, was

1:52:46.479 --> 1:52:50.720
<v Speaker 2>looking out for me and being supportive and being, you know,

1:52:51.040 --> 1:52:56.599
<v Speaker 2>part of my solution. Not now my dad, my dad said.

1:52:56.600 --> 1:53:03.679
<v Speaker 2>My relationship was significantly different. You know. I love my dad,

1:53:04.360 --> 1:53:11.479
<v Speaker 2>but my dad was like skeptical. And one of the

1:53:11.760 --> 1:53:16.920
<v Speaker 2>famous quotes my father used to say to me was,

1:53:17.960 --> 1:53:19.479
<v Speaker 2>what are you doing up there in a room with

1:53:19.520 --> 1:53:23.240
<v Speaker 2>that guitar plunk a plunkin around up there, come down

1:53:23.280 --> 1:53:25.320
<v Speaker 2>here and play me a song? Can you play me

1:53:25.360 --> 1:53:32.000
<v Speaker 2>a song? And it wasn't that many years later. I

1:53:32.160 --> 1:53:35.240
<v Speaker 2>was standing in front of one hundred thousand people on

1:53:35.360 --> 1:53:42.040
<v Speaker 2>stage with the Outlaws at the unveiling of our first

1:53:42.080 --> 1:53:44.599
<v Speaker 2>album in New York. And he drove down with his

1:53:44.640 --> 1:53:49.400
<v Speaker 2>wife and my half sisters and brothers, and he watched

1:53:49.439 --> 1:53:53.400
<v Speaker 2>his son get a standing ovation from one hundred thousand people,

1:53:53.439 --> 1:53:59.320
<v Speaker 2>and he was like, that's my son, that one over there,

1:53:59.520 --> 1:54:03.760
<v Speaker 2>that's my So dad went from being, you know, a

1:54:03.840 --> 1:54:08.840
<v Speaker 2>doubter to being my biggest supporter. It's too I mean,

1:54:08.880 --> 1:54:12.080
<v Speaker 2>it's the way it goes. And I mean, who can

1:54:12.120 --> 1:54:16.760
<v Speaker 2>blame him? You know, because they never asked me to

1:54:16.840 --> 1:54:20.599
<v Speaker 2>help him with a farm, So what the hell? I

1:54:20.640 --> 1:54:24.360
<v Speaker 2>thought I'd start my own business.

1:54:25.160 --> 1:54:27.639
<v Speaker 1>Now. You also make a big point in the book

1:54:28.400 --> 1:54:31.800
<v Speaker 1>about growing sweet corn. I grew up in the Northeast,

1:54:31.920 --> 1:54:34.880
<v Speaker 1>I know what sweet corn is. And then having a

1:54:34.960 --> 1:54:38.560
<v Speaker 1>farm on your property now, so what can you tell

1:54:38.640 --> 1:54:41.240
<v Speaker 1>us about sweet corn? And how extensive farm do you

1:54:41.280 --> 1:54:41.800
<v Speaker 1>actually have?

1:54:42.120 --> 1:54:51.160
<v Speaker 2>Nothing like the failt farm. Nothing. This is all fun, big,

1:54:51.240 --> 1:54:56.400
<v Speaker 2>but it's fun. Our farm in New York, we would

1:54:56.400 --> 1:55:01.320
<v Speaker 2>do five tractor trailers a day, a day and a day.

1:55:01.840 --> 1:55:04.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we were sending a lot of corn up

1:55:04.720 --> 1:55:08.600
<v Speaker 2>and down the Eastern Seaboard, a MP Grand Union, all

1:55:08.680 --> 1:55:12.440
<v Speaker 2>the big chains were buying our corn. We had a salesman.

1:55:13.040 --> 1:55:15.560
<v Speaker 2>It was a big business. My grandfather made a lot

1:55:15.600 --> 1:55:22.720
<v Speaker 2>of his land was worth a lot of money. I

1:55:22.880 --> 1:55:28.480
<v Speaker 2>was so proud to be My granddad was Henry Paul.

1:55:28.560 --> 1:55:32.200
<v Speaker 2>My dad was Henry Paul. I was Henry Paul. This

1:55:32.400 --> 1:55:35.880
<v Speaker 2>was our farm, this is our land. That business kind

1:55:35.920 --> 1:55:42.320
<v Speaker 2>of was the was the image of that area. And

1:55:42.920 --> 1:55:44.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, they'd have Hurley, New York and they'd have

1:55:44.840 --> 1:55:49.040
<v Speaker 2>an Ork corn and we were the first family growing it.

1:55:49.160 --> 1:55:52.480
<v Speaker 2>And there were two other families growing at it on

1:55:52.560 --> 1:55:55.640
<v Speaker 2>the level that we did. One was the Davenports, one

1:55:55.720 --> 1:55:58.320
<v Speaker 2>was the Gills. And the Gills and the Davenports and

1:55:58.360 --> 1:56:03.960
<v Speaker 2>the Paul family own the Hurly Flats and grew corn

1:56:04.040 --> 1:56:10.200
<v Speaker 2>on it. And that made me feel really good. Like

1:56:10.440 --> 1:56:14.760
<v Speaker 2>ego wise, I was someone I didn't go running around,

1:56:14.760 --> 1:56:16.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, making a deal of it. But I mean,

1:56:16.600 --> 1:56:20.760
<v Speaker 2>in my heart, I felt like I was a part

1:56:20.800 --> 1:56:26.000
<v Speaker 2>of something good. You can say the exact same thing

1:56:26.080 --> 1:56:29.800
<v Speaker 2>for the Outlaws and for black Hawks and every repulpment

1:56:30.280 --> 1:56:36.320
<v Speaker 2>exact same thing, only this was my business. You had

1:56:36.360 --> 1:56:40.160
<v Speaker 2>your farm. I had my band. It has my name

1:56:40.200 --> 1:56:42.840
<v Speaker 2>on it, just like your bag has our name on

1:56:42.880 --> 1:56:46.680
<v Speaker 2>the bag of corn. But this was my way of

1:56:46.720 --> 1:56:49.960
<v Speaker 2>creating my own because I didn't get invited to run

1:56:50.000 --> 1:56:52.880
<v Speaker 2>the farm or take it over. I started my own

1:56:52.920 --> 1:56:57.400
<v Speaker 2>business and it satisfied an artistic inclination of mine, and

1:56:57.440 --> 1:57:01.720
<v Speaker 2>I got to do that, and then I found success

1:57:01.800 --> 1:57:07.879
<v Speaker 2>at it, and I got to be my own person.

1:57:08.240 --> 1:57:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Who wasn't, you know, coming in on the hills of

1:57:13.280 --> 1:57:16.160
<v Speaker 2>someone else's work. I did it on my own.

1:57:16.960 --> 1:57:17.840
<v Speaker 1>Whatever happened to.

1:57:17.840 --> 1:57:27.880
<v Speaker 2>The farm, my dad, my granddad who started it, passed away.

1:57:28.680 --> 1:57:32.200
<v Speaker 2>My dad was a faithful son, worked hard for his father.

1:57:34.320 --> 1:57:36.760
<v Speaker 2>But by the time my granddad passed away, my dad

1:57:36.880 --> 1:57:40.840
<v Speaker 2>was over it. He built a house in Florida. He

1:57:40.880 --> 1:57:43.880
<v Speaker 2>and his wife would go in and stay. Eventually he

1:57:44.040 --> 1:57:50.400
<v Speaker 2>sold it, you know, eventually it was sold. The Warren

1:57:50.480 --> 1:57:55.560
<v Speaker 2>Buffett family came in and bought a lot of what

1:57:55.720 --> 1:58:00.560
<v Speaker 2>we had, along with the farm next door, and they,

1:58:00.920 --> 1:58:06.839
<v Speaker 2>to their credit, turned it into a new Ordanic model

1:58:08.280 --> 1:58:11.880
<v Speaker 2>and the sweetcorn business from where we came from. It's gone.

1:58:11.960 --> 1:58:16.240
<v Speaker 2>It's all gone. Nobody grows. One of the large segments

1:58:16.280 --> 1:58:20.920
<v Speaker 2>of our farm. Someone bought their growing marijuana on it,

1:58:21.000 --> 1:58:26.760
<v Speaker 2>like THC marijuana, medical marijuana. They're doing very well. The

1:58:26.800 --> 1:58:29.800
<v Speaker 2>Buffett family bought the larger part of the farm and

1:58:29.840 --> 1:58:33.879
<v Speaker 2>with a huge one next door, they're they're growing organic

1:58:33.960 --> 1:58:37.440
<v Speaker 2>produce and doing probably well at it. But it just

1:58:37.560 --> 1:58:38.560
<v Speaker 2>changed that way.

1:58:40.200 --> 1:58:43.480
<v Speaker 1>But the land was very valuable. Did any of the

1:58:43.560 --> 1:58:47.760
<v Speaker 1>revenue from that trickle down to the next generation in you.

1:58:49.120 --> 1:58:51.880
<v Speaker 2>Did I have a huge inheritance? Well?

1:58:51.920 --> 1:58:54.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, some people have no inheritance, but you're

1:58:54.800 --> 1:58:57.000
<v Speaker 1>talking about your parents had a very successful business.

1:58:57.280 --> 1:59:00.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well yeah, I think it's safe to say that

1:59:00.240 --> 1:59:04.480
<v Speaker 2>there was, you know, there's something in it for all

1:59:04.520 --> 1:59:07.760
<v Speaker 2>of us there. You know, there were three kids from

1:59:07.760 --> 1:59:10.080
<v Speaker 2>my dad's first marriage and three kids from the dad

1:59:10.200 --> 1:59:13.840
<v Speaker 2>second marriage. So it wasn't like somebody got everything, but

1:59:13.960 --> 1:59:15.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, there was enough to go around, and there

1:59:15.880 --> 1:59:26.160
<v Speaker 2>was there was, you know, a reward, so to speak.

1:59:27.360 --> 1:59:32.800
<v Speaker 2>I took my wife and my kids this past March.

1:59:34.360 --> 1:59:38.440
<v Speaker 2>We flew into New York. I was actually working. I

1:59:38.480 --> 1:59:40.400
<v Speaker 2>took the train in New York. They flew to New York.

1:59:40.680 --> 1:59:42.720
<v Speaker 2>We spent like three or four days in the city.

1:59:43.720 --> 1:59:46.320
<v Speaker 2>This is going to get back to what you're talking about.

1:59:46.360 --> 1:59:50.120
<v Speaker 2>But then I said, well, we were planned a ski

1:59:50.200 --> 1:59:54.160
<v Speaker 2>trip in the Catskills where I learned to ski. We

1:59:54.200 --> 1:59:56.160
<v Speaker 2>were going to go to bel Air Mountain and we're

1:59:56.160 --> 1:59:59.400
<v Speaker 2>going to skip and so we drove. I rented a car,

1:59:59.520 --> 2:00:03.880
<v Speaker 2>We drove up, and we had dinner with my sister,

2:00:04.920 --> 2:00:07.800
<v Speaker 2>and the next morning we drove into Hurley and I

2:00:07.920 --> 2:00:11.480
<v Speaker 2>showed him where the farm was. There's this old dutch

2:00:11.720 --> 2:00:15.160
<v Speaker 2>stone home we lived in, built in seventeen twenty, and

2:00:15.280 --> 2:00:20.880
<v Speaker 2>the barns across the street was open, huge open fields.

2:00:21.600 --> 2:00:25.200
<v Speaker 2>There is absolutely no sign that we were ever there.

2:00:26.920 --> 2:00:30.560
<v Speaker 2>And it was very, very difficult for me. My grandfather,

2:00:30.640 --> 2:00:33.440
<v Speaker 2>who was the greatest rock star in my mind I've

2:00:33.520 --> 2:00:37.640
<v Speaker 2>ever known, and my dad, who was a hard working, faithful,

2:00:38.920 --> 2:00:46.120
<v Speaker 2>smart guy over there. At least I have a book,

2:00:47.080 --> 2:00:49.920
<v Speaker 2>at least I have a record, at least I have

2:00:50.080 --> 2:00:55.520
<v Speaker 2>this body of work. For whatever it means, that tells

2:00:56.520 --> 2:01:01.480
<v Speaker 2>reminds people that I was here. He didn't become filthy

2:01:01.600 --> 2:01:06.720
<v Speaker 2>rich or have medical insurance all the time. But I

2:01:06.760 --> 2:01:10.480
<v Speaker 2>do have something to show for my life, and I'm

2:01:10.520 --> 2:01:15.760
<v Speaker 2>proud of that. I guess I'm proud of that. I'm

2:01:15.760 --> 2:01:17.480
<v Speaker 2>proud of the fact that I was able to do

2:01:17.520 --> 2:01:20.640
<v Speaker 2>what I dreamt and set out to do. I actually

2:01:20.640 --> 2:01:21.560
<v Speaker 2>got to do it.

2:01:23.760 --> 2:01:25.360
<v Speaker 1>So why the book, why now?

2:01:28.080 --> 2:01:32.720
<v Speaker 2>Well? I thought it was late enough in the story

2:01:32.920 --> 2:01:38.760
<v Speaker 2>of the game, of the of the story to tell

2:01:38.840 --> 2:01:44.320
<v Speaker 2>it to give people who just loved the band and

2:01:44.360 --> 2:01:46.480
<v Speaker 2>came and bought a ticket and went to the Spectrum

2:01:46.480 --> 2:01:50.840
<v Speaker 2>and drank whiskey and hoot and dollar, just so they

2:01:50.960 --> 2:01:56.400
<v Speaker 2>know what happened. What it was like to share a

2:01:56.440 --> 2:01:58.680
<v Speaker 2>bottle of Jack Daniels in the front lounge of my

2:01:58.760 --> 2:02:04.760
<v Speaker 2>bus would run him in. What it was like to

2:02:04.800 --> 2:02:08.680
<v Speaker 2>be invited on stage by Dicky Betts and to play Southbound.

2:02:10.440 --> 2:02:13.480
<v Speaker 2>What it was like night after night with the Marshall

2:02:13.520 --> 2:02:17.560
<v Speaker 2>Tucker Band of the Charlie Daniels Band. What it was

2:02:17.720 --> 2:02:22.560
<v Speaker 2>like to cohabitate with these cohabitat habitat with these people

2:02:23.160 --> 2:02:26.640
<v Speaker 2>and be a part of their lives to where we

2:02:26.640 --> 2:02:30.320
<v Speaker 2>were knew one another on a first name basis. What

2:02:30.360 --> 2:02:35.440
<v Speaker 2>it was like to be in that. Because most of

2:02:35.480 --> 2:02:39.640
<v Speaker 2>the people that I grew up with in that are gone,

2:02:39.920 --> 2:02:42.960
<v Speaker 2>and there are maybe a few people around that can

2:02:43.280 --> 2:02:47.320
<v Speaker 2>still tell the story, I have a great memory, and I,

2:02:47.680 --> 2:02:51.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, wrote this book with Gary Hirtz, who was

2:02:51.600 --> 2:02:56.320
<v Speaker 2>a really smart guy, and I gave. We had a

2:02:56.360 --> 2:03:03.120
<v Speaker 2>great collaboration of how it was, how it worked, what happened,

2:03:03.240 --> 2:03:07.960
<v Speaker 2>how it felt. The Rolling Stones, Mick Jagger and Keith

2:03:08.080 --> 2:03:12.720
<v Speaker 2>Richards coming into our dressing room. I love your ben

2:03:12.840 --> 2:03:15.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's like, Hey, they liked our band. That's great.

2:03:15.320 --> 2:03:21.040
<v Speaker 2>Thanks Matt. We like yours too. You know it's not

2:03:21.160 --> 2:03:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Paul McCartney and John Lennon or George Harrison or Ringo

2:03:24.120 --> 2:03:25.480
<v Speaker 2>Starbus not bad.

2:03:27.320 --> 2:03:32.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Henry. A couple of things. One I can just

2:03:32.760 --> 2:03:36.040
<v Speaker 1>tell by talking to you that you are a smart guy. Two,

2:03:36.360 --> 2:03:39.760
<v Speaker 1>you're obviously a student of the game and no music

2:03:39.920 --> 2:03:43.000
<v Speaker 1>history just by your references. In any event, it's been

2:03:43.040 --> 2:03:45.960
<v Speaker 1>a great pleasure talking to you. I want you to

2:03:46.040 --> 2:03:49.480
<v Speaker 1>have that. Paie, have a good birthday. Thanks for talking

2:03:49.480 --> 2:03:55.720
<v Speaker 1>to my audience. Thanks till next time. This is Bob

2:03:55.840 --> 2:03:56.400
<v Speaker 1>leftsas

2:04:18.120 --> 2:04:18.240
<v Speaker 2>Sh