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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the bob Lefset's podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is Henry Hall, who has a new book

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Speaker 1: to last out. Henry, isn't today your birthday?

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Speaker 2: Today is my birthday?

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Speaker 1: So what are your special plans?

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Speaker 2: Well, my son's coming over for dinner. He's a very

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Speaker 2: entertaining character. So we're going to make some pae, drink

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Speaker 2: some Spanish wine. My wife is cooking dinner for me,

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Speaker 2: which is not unusual, but we both share the cooking duties,

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Speaker 2: but she's commandeering the kitchen for my birthday tonight.

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Speaker 1: So pae good pie is great. How did you learn

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Speaker 1: how to make paea?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, growing up in Tampa with a Cuban community.

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Speaker 2: It was the kind of part of the landscape.

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Speaker 1: Any other dishes you specialize it?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you know, I mean going back to the

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Speaker 2: Cuban thing, the Spanish thing, the chicken and yellow rice.

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Speaker 2: I love to make hyea. I love French bistro cooking, coke, Wova,

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Speaker 2: boothberg Ignon. Gosh, you know, I'm just going to tell

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Speaker 2: you this my spaghetti sauce. Seriously, if you're a soulful

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Speaker 2: character that knows the difference between good and great. My

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Speaker 2: sauce would qualify.

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Speaker 1: But make sure so magic. What's the essence of the recipe?

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Speaker 2: Time homegrown tomatoes. I don't use ground beef. I use

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Speaker 2: ground hot Italian sausage as my base for the sauce.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. You know, it's so heavy that you

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Speaker 2: can't eat it very often. We probably make that once

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Speaker 2: every two or three months. But when we do, we

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Speaker 2: gain five pounds. It's part of it.

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Speaker 1: What do you do about food on the road?

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Speaker 2: Ah, that's a good one. Kind of you just try

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Speaker 2: and be discerning, try and pick and choose. But it

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Speaker 2: can get pretty ugly. It can get pretty damn ugly. Now,

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Speaker 2: if you're on the Lenards Skinnered tour and the catering

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Speaker 2: is a notch or two above what you are used to,

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Speaker 2: that's half the attraction anymore. Forget exposure to a large audience.

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Speaker 2: It's all about the catering.

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Speaker 1: So, okay, you've been doing this a long time. You're

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Speaker 1: going to die on stage? No, So what would it

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Speaker 1: take for you to all the day?

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Speaker 2: I'm close. When I was younger, I thought I wanted

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Speaker 2: to be you know, Willie Nelson when I grew up.

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Speaker 2: But I've had enough. I mean, honestly, I have a

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Speaker 2: four year old and a ten year old at home

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Speaker 2: and a young wife, and a greenhouse and some acreage

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Speaker 2: and a tractor, and you know, I would like to

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Speaker 2: go out maybe with a couple of people to sing

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Speaker 2: with and do acoustic and acoustic evening and tell some stories.

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Speaker 2: But my son, who is a very talented young man,

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Speaker 2: is more than capable of running the show out here,

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Speaker 2: and he wants to, and I want him to, and

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Speaker 2: so I thought maybe next year could be my last year.

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Speaker 1: Can you say your son is people being running the show?

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Speaker 1: What exactly do you mean?

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Speaker 2: Well, he's a much better guitar player than I am.

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Speaker 2: He's a really good singer, and he is a good leader.

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Speaker 2: He's a natural born chip off the old block. That way,

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Speaker 2: our family is brought with chiefs. There aren't a lot

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Speaker 2: of Indians.

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Speaker 3: Okay, but if you stop, that would mean the Outlaws

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Speaker 3: would be on the road without any original members.

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Speaker 2: Well, how many original tires do you have in your car? Bob?

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Speaker 2: You know, he's been out there since he was ten.

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Speaker 2: He's come in contact with the fan base extensively over

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Speaker 2: the years. He's a really kind person and he's a

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Speaker 2: very charismatic type of guy, and the fans know him,

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Speaker 2: they love him. He's been very kind to the fans,

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Speaker 2: and he's got the right name, and he's got a

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Speaker 2: very very long and storied not unlike Johnny van Zant

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Speaker 2: or Ricky Midlock, now, you know. I mean, I don't

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Speaker 2: mind saying that Lennard Skinner band is very good and

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Speaker 2: those people want to hear those songs, they want to

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Speaker 2: buy that T shirt, and that band puts on a

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Speaker 2: great show and is very faithful to the band's musical personality.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like the Outlaws and Blackhawk can go

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Speaker 2: on indefinitely because of the nature of the material. And

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Speaker 2: you know, little Henry has a unique talent for sounding

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Speaker 2: like his dad. There's a part of him that sounds

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Speaker 2: a little like me anyhow, and as you may know,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's kind of an unusual sounding voice. But

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Speaker 2: he he can do that, and I want him to

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Speaker 2: do that. I would That's something I can give him.

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Speaker 2: And the guys on the bus love and respect him,

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Speaker 2: and he can keep the band together and keep going.

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Speaker 1: But even you know, our Laws had many men, Blackcaw

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Speaker 1: only had a few. You still think it could be

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Speaker 1: okay with him leading.

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Speaker 2: The band absolutely well, you know, of course I would

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Speaker 2: say yes. But I think Blackhawk was a trio. The

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Speaker 2: Outlaws was a five piece rock band. The Blackhawk thing

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Speaker 2: is far more kind and gentle, you know, and thoughtful

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Speaker 2: and the Outlaws. You know, back when we were young people, man,

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Speaker 2: we were like all just clawn at the walls to

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Speaker 2: try and get ahead and be somebody. I think Dave

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Speaker 2: Robbins and I, which are the two surviving original members

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Speaker 2: of Blackhawk, I think Dave would be very helpful to Henry.

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Speaker 2: I know he would be, and I think he would

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Speaker 2: lend a significant amount of credibility to the brand. I

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Speaker 2: you know, how many original members and cover bands, and

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Speaker 2: you know, you hear that lot. But Lennard Skinner's out

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Speaker 2: there doing great and I'm using them as an example.

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Speaker 2: But you know, there's a lot of bands that represent

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Speaker 2: something musically to a generation of people and they want that.

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Speaker 2: And I think that it's fair to expect, you know,

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Speaker 2: a great show in the spirit of what it was,

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Speaker 2: what you know, what it was from a creative standpoint.

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Speaker 2: But you know, other than that, I don't know when

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Speaker 2: a band goes away, do they just go away? I mean,

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Speaker 2: do they just like just go away or do they

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Speaker 2: I don't know, keep going.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's an interesting thing, you know. I've been to

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Speaker 1: see Journey with the replacement singer and you're in the

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Speaker 1: audience and you realize the audience owns the songs more

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Speaker 1: than the band, and that they're experienced, they want to

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Speaker 1: hear the songs, and who's on stage isn't as important

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Speaker 1: to them as it might have been in the heyday.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I think that we're conditioned to love the

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Speaker 2: original band. I think it's natural to feel that way.

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Speaker 2: I mean, maybe the Beatles are an exception. Whether can

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Speaker 2: you see the Beatles without John or Paul or George.

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Speaker 2: But I do believe that that people want to hear

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Speaker 2: those songs. They want them played and sang and treated

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Speaker 2: with respect and with you know, in a competent musical

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Speaker 2: form and fashion. One thing that has really helped the

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Speaker 2: Outlaws for the last fifteen or twenty years is that

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Speaker 2: I was unyield towards the band's original sound. And when

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Speaker 2: I wrote and recorded new studio records, I wrote and

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Speaker 2: recorded music that was faithful to the band's musical personality.

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Speaker 2: It was never spanned out ballet or any of that

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Speaker 2: you know, it was always the Outlaws, and I loved,

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Speaker 2: you know, just you know, continuing that musical personality and

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Speaker 2: being true to it felt really natural and right to me.

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Speaker 2: And so when the fan base got a new record,

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Speaker 2: they drop the needle and they'd go, Wow, this sounds

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Speaker 2: like the Outlaws. This is really good. The songs are

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Speaker 2: really good, the harmony, vocals are great, the guitars are sizzling.

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Speaker 2: It's a great sounding record in and I not because

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Speaker 2: it's my songwriting that is in the you know, at

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Speaker 2: the center of it. But there's some pretty damn good

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Speaker 2: songs on those records, and the performance is really good.

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Speaker 1: Okay. You hear a lot about older artists that if

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Speaker 1: they play new material, people go to the bar. What's

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Speaker 1: your experience?

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Speaker 2: Well, again, you know, I want to hear Bob Dylan

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Speaker 2: sing subterranean homesick clues. I'm not very interested in what

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Speaker 2: he has to say here in the last ten or

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Speaker 2: fifteen years. So if I put a new song in

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Speaker 2: the set and I'm writing about let me just give

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Speaker 2: you an example. If I'm if I'm coming from a

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Speaker 2: song off the first or second album and I put

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Speaker 2: a new song in a set, uh, and it speaks

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Speaker 2: to them lyrically, and it's and it speaks to them stylistically.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you from experience, you're going to get

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Speaker 2: what you want in the way of a reaction, and

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Speaker 2: uh uh, I think that. You know fans if they're

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Speaker 2: having a good time and they're on their feet and

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Speaker 2: the new material pushes their button, which it does, and

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Speaker 2: it speaks to them lyrically in a way that they

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Speaker 2: can relate. The walls of the Fillmore East still echo

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Speaker 2: with the sound and Midnight Writer memories forever haunt this town.

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Speaker 2: You know. It's like fire on the mountain, the voice

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Speaker 2: that can't you see. The reason Sweet Home Alibi means

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Speaker 2: so much to me is it's about pride. So you

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Speaker 2: put that in the show, and I defy you to

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Speaker 2: not want to love that and not want to react

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Speaker 2: to that. And so it's how you frame the music

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Speaker 2: lyrically and lyrically, that's how it kind of established itself

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Speaker 2: to begin with. And if you're wise to that and

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Speaker 2: you're consistent, then you can bring new life to the band.

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Speaker 2: We've done it, I mean Dixie Highway and It's about pride.

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Speaker 2: Those two albums have done incredibly well for us and

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Speaker 2: really helped give the band legitimacy, which I think was important.

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Speaker 1: You talk about potentially stopping in a year. What's been

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Speaker 1: keeping you doing it for these last years?

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Speaker 2: Well, most of all, I think I wanted to prove

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Speaker 2: to myself because Blackhawk is a uniquely personal musical personality

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Speaker 2: of my own sort of making. Along with Dave and band,

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Speaker 2: the Outlaws had three singer songwriters from the very early

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Speaker 2: stages of the group, and Huey emerged as the dominant

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Speaker 2: musical personality in the band. And when I left the

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Speaker 2: group upon my bandmates suggestion, it was hurtful and it

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Speaker 2: started a fire in me that was hard to put out.

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Speaker 2: Whether it was the Henry Paul Band, or coming back

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Speaker 2: to the Outlaws and establishing it as a really good, solid,

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Speaker 2: vocal and instrumental group, or whether it was when hue

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Speaker 2: passed away and I took the reins and brought the

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Speaker 2: band back. It was a personal thing for me to succeed,

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Speaker 2: and it was important for me to feel that success

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Speaker 2: because I had a large part in creating the Outlaws

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Speaker 2: and I had a very significant investment in their well being,

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Speaker 2: and it just gave me that late in life opportunity

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Speaker 2: to show myself as committed and to put a very

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Speaker 2: professional face on a band that had been through a

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Speaker 2: lot of changes and a lot of inglorious moments.

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Speaker 1: So have you achieved your dream?

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Speaker 2: I have, and I you know, I had. My goal

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Speaker 2: was to pull the fan base together and have everybody,

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Speaker 2: you know, in one place. I found out I could

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Speaker 2: not do that. I couldn't do that. I mean, it

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Speaker 2: didn't matter what I did. That wasn't going to happen.

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Speaker 2: But what I did do is I brought these people

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Speaker 2: that grew up listening to that band, and I brought

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Speaker 2: them back to the group, and the audience went through

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Speaker 2: over time, went through a significant ship and the people

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Speaker 2: that I was playing for became more familiar to me sociologically.

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Speaker 1: And.

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Speaker 2: They showed their enthusiasm for what we were doing in

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Speaker 2: a way that I internalized on a personal level. And so,

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Speaker 2: you know, it was important for me to feel like

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Speaker 2: I had put the Outlaws out there in a way

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Speaker 2: that was respectful and successful, especially from the standpoint of

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Speaker 2: the audience's reaction to the evening.

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Speaker 1: So who's coming Ole Laws shows now?

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Speaker 2: Well, I would say eighty percent of the audience is

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Speaker 2: the original people that discovered the band and supported it.

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Speaker 2: The twenty percent of the audience is young people that

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Speaker 2: love seventies southern raw musical personality or guitar driven musical personalities,

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Speaker 2: and the female quotient in the audience is at a

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Speaker 2: higher level.

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Speaker 1: What do you think it counts for that?

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Speaker 2: I think it's the respect that they are given from

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Speaker 2: the stage and the inviting nature of the rapport. And

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Speaker 2: I'm not talking about pandering. I'm just talking about appealing

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Speaker 2: to these people on a on a human level. And

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Speaker 2: instead of making it dark and sleeveless and male and

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Speaker 2: aggressive and motorcycle persona driven, we made it a little

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Speaker 2: bit lighter, a little bit more vocal, and a lot

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Speaker 2: more accessible. From the standpoint of our rapport, there's some

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Speaker 2: you know this, there's some nice looking guys in the band,

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean, it doesn't look ugly. It looks

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Speaker 2: really like American, like, for lack of a better word,

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Speaker 2: a little bit more you know, just accessible as people

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Speaker 2: the people on stage, and they're really kind people. And

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Speaker 2: I think through consistency of our rapport with the audience

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Speaker 2: over a decade or more, twenty almost years, and people said,

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Speaker 2: the Outlaws are playing in a really nice venue, they

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Speaker 2: sound really good. Let's go see the Outlaws and we'll

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Speaker 2: have some cocktails and we'll enjoy ourselves and it'll take

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Speaker 2: us back to when we were kids. And Henry will

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Speaker 2: come out and say hello, and they're very accessible and

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Speaker 2: he's a really nice guy. And the band sounds really good,

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Speaker 2: and you know, they look good. By looks good and

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Speaker 2: they sound good. And I just think over time, the audience,

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Speaker 2: I know, it went through a shift and it was

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Speaker 2: kind of like started to mirror the personalities on stage

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Speaker 2: rather than us trying to mimic our our audience.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you've laid the base there. The band is now

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Speaker 1: on stage, you're the front person for the band. What

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Speaker 1: is the key to interacting personally with the audience.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think if you're a gracious to begin with,

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Speaker 2: and you have an empathetic and gracious sort of spirit,

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Speaker 2: and you legitimately like people instead of being put off

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Speaker 2: by him or instead of being you know, uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: instead of being you know, intruded upon or feeling like,

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Speaker 2: you know, you need to just be alone or private.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we were very comfortable and cordial in interacting

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Speaker 2: with the fans, and it wasn't a conscientious decision made

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Speaker 2: on a marketing level. It was just who we were.

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Speaker 2: It's who I am, and the band mirrors my persona

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Speaker 2: when it comes to my appreciation for who these people are,

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Speaker 2: and when I speak to them, I speak to them

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Speaker 2: in a language that they recognize as being real. It's

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Speaker 2: not some flag waving veterans supporting, you know, just pandering

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Speaker 2: to some Southern rock persona or or perceived personality that

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Speaker 2: we have to assume. It's a very natural and very

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Speaker 2: accessible message, and I think it comes from being smart

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Speaker 2: enough to know that who you're dealing with are pretty

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Speaker 2: you know, receptive and intelligent and similar types of people

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Speaker 2: than as you know, they get the difference between kindness

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Speaker 2: or genuine you know, behavior and appreciation rather than the

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Speaker 2: cliche thing. I've heard it my whole life, you know,

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Speaker 2: I've heard it over and over and it just doesn't

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Speaker 2: sound good to me. What sounds good to me is

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Speaker 2: not talking down to them, but talking to them and

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Speaker 2: with them. So I think that you know, people will go,

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Speaker 2: you know, well, I love the stories Henry was telling tonight.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm very appreciative and genuinely affectionate towards my bandmates. Yes,

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Speaker 2: we had some heart wrenching parts to the story, but

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Speaker 2: I never lost sight of who they were or what

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Speaker 2: they meant to me. We realized a dream together, we

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Speaker 2: thought for it, we realized it together. It was a

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Speaker 2: very life changing moment and a very important part of

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Speaker 2: making our life matter. And so you can't just write

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Speaker 2: those people off. And I treat those former bandmates with

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Speaker 2: respect on the mic, and I acknowledged the obvious contribution

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Speaker 2: they made, and I think that the sincerity and the

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Speaker 2: genuine appeal of the band rests in that rapport.

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Speaker 1: So when you tell a story, I mean, there's two

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Speaker 1: ways to tell the story. Well, this is a song

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Speaker 1: written by my bandmate, it's on this album. We're going

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Speaker 1: to play it. There's another thing to say, Well, I

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Speaker 1: was sitting on the couch smoking a doobie. What kind

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Speaker 1: of stories do you tell live?

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Speaker 2: Well, I go to the Two Nights in Nashville when

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Speaker 2: we opened for Leonard skinnern in the spring of nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy four, and Ronnie going back to the hotel and

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Speaker 2: calling his manager and telling his manager that there was

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Speaker 2: a band on the show from Tampa trying to kick

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Speaker 2: their ass and they had themselves Freebird. That evening, unbeknownst

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Speaker 2: to us, was a life changing evening because the Leonard

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Speaker 2: Skinnyerd manager at that time had a lot of influence

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Speaker 2: and a lot of credibility, and his his effort on

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Speaker 2: our behalf was met with attention and ultimately a major

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Speaker 2: label record deal between Charlie Bruscoe and Alan Walden. We

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Speaker 2: were able to connect with people that had the power

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Speaker 2: to sign a band to a major label, and we

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Speaker 2: were really good. And those are the kind of stories that,

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Speaker 2: you know, kind of give the fans a bit more

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Speaker 2: of an understanding of how in the hell you got there,

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Speaker 2: because otherwise, you know, it's just like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: we Clive came and saw us, you know, but Clive

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Speaker 2: did come and see us, But he came and saw

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Speaker 2: us because people told Clive we were good. You know,

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Speaker 2: the music business, you're only as good as someone that

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Speaker 2: has influence says you are. And if they say you're good,

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Speaker 2: then everyone believes it. But they don't say you're good,

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Speaker 2: then nobody cares. So here was this person saying they're

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Speaker 2: really good. And then you know, Bob, you know, Fiden

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Speaker 2: comes down and sees the band and goes back and says, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're really good, Clive, they really are good. And so

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Speaker 2: Clive comes down and said, you know, Clive, you know,

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Speaker 2: the superlatives were, you know, flowing. And I was in

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Speaker 2: a room with a guy and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: from just being a dreamer and a hard worker, I

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Speaker 2: went to being a recording artist and a part of

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Speaker 2: the popular music landscape, and it was a big deal.

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Speaker 1: Let's stay with Clive for a second. You know, you're

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Speaker 1: in with Clive in his second iteration, he's starting up Arista.

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Speaker 1: As you talk in the book, it's really the first

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Speaker 1: rock band on the label. Clive is notorious for messing

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Speaker 1: with the music. You mentioned a couple of things, him

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Speaker 1: wanting hits after the first album. What was your experience

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Speaker 1: with working with Clive.

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Speaker 2: It was good, not to sound, you know, politically correct,

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Speaker 2: but it was good. He did not really lean on

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Speaker 2: us very much. He brought to my knowledge one song

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Speaker 2: and suggested we record it, and we did, and it

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Speaker 2: was a little left or right of center for us.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember the name of the song. We

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Speaker 2: never performed it, you know, because it didn't become a

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00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 2: song that was noteworthy. The Santana story is a great

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Speaker 2: story but that wasn't our story. We were more of.

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Speaker 2: I mean, when you go back and listen to the

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Speaker 2: Outlaws albums and you go back and listen to the

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Speaker 2: Eels records, it becomes clear pretty quickly if you know

346
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: anything about songwriting, why they're a household name and we're

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Speaker 2: a cult bad. I'm not saying our songs weren't good,

348
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Speaker 2: but I'm saying they were different. Tequila Sunrise, you know,

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Speaker 2: is like if you like Pinacle, you know, I mean,

350
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: it's just it's served up, you know, with an umbrella

351
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: and a long straw. But Green Grass and High Tides

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00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: is a majestic instrumental phenomena that would burn the Eagles

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Speaker 2: completely to the ground in musical comparison, and so you know,

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00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 2: they were beautiful singers. Henley emerged as a major league

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Speaker 2: songwriter and a hugely, incredibly influential musical personality. I mean,

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00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 2: don his solo records to me were like Goga and

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00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 2: the Eagles to this day are a great band. I

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00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: mean they should be. They've got Vince Gill and Joe Walsh.

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Speaker 2: You know, shit, how do you go wrong there? I mean,

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Speaker 2: Vince Gill is a work of art, and you know,

361
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: and Joe Walsh's and Don Felder was a great part

362
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: of that band. I have a great part of that band.

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Speaker 2: Really help them. But you know, we were different that way,

364
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Speaker 2: and and people love us for not being the Eagles,

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Speaker 2: you know, they love us for being you know. Bob

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Speaker 2: Dylan has a quote that says, never never confused popular

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Speaker 2: with good. Just be yourself and write your quirky little

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00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 2: songs that don't have you know, universal thoughts and hooks.

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Speaker 2: But to you, you go out and you play that

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Speaker 2: hard and you play it with conviction, and people will

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Speaker 2: love it just on face value. It doesn't have to

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Speaker 2: be you know, steely Dan. It can be a simple

373
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Speaker 2: and maybe a little bit I mean, Leonard Skynard's a

374
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: great example of a band that had a very simple

375
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 2: musical personality. And yes they had Sweet Home Alabama, which

376
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 2: is in a you know, a beautiful musical moment for them.

377
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: But Marshall Tucker and even the Almand Brothers, even though

378
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: they had a hit on Ramblin Man, those bands, we

379
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: were sort of cast in the Almond Brothers, we were

380
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 2: all cast i think in a certain extent in their image.

381
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Speaker 2: We loved them and we were in awe of them.

382
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 2: And we respected them and we wanted to be them,

383
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: and we were, you know, in our own sol Way,

384
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 2: just incredibly enamored by who they were and what they

385
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 2: meant to us, especially you know from Live at the

386
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: film Wore and Eat a Peach and holy crap, I mean,

387
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 2: Brothers and Sisters was like even without Dwayne, I mean,

388
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 2: the band hit this thing and we were just absolutely

389
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 2: completely invested in what that was. We didn't mimic them,

390
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 2: but we really loved what they did. And the Marshall

391
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 2: Tucker band was a great band. Skinner was a great

392
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 2: band of Charlie Daniels was a great band. And that

393
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 2: was our peer group Leonard Skinner, Marshall Tucker, Charlie Daniels,

394
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: and god dare I say the Almend Brothers. That was

395
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: Southern rock. And the Outlaws were the last band to

396
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: enter that configuration. But the Outlaws earned their way in,

397
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: and I can tell you from experience. Every night used

398
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 2: to bring the whip down pretty good, and we would

399
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 2: get over on Skinnered, or we would get over on Tucker,

400
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: or we get over on Charlie. We held our own

401
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: every night, and our relationship with those people was genuine

402
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 2: and warm and very very memorable in a very nurturing

403
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 2: and positive way.

404
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about interacting with the audience today, and

405
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: you talk about not being a cliche. You tour all

406
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: over this country, You've seen the people, You're where the

407
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: rubber meets the road. What can you tell us about

408
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 1: people in America today?

409
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 2: Well, it's for me, it was, and I'm just going

410
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 2: to talk about my audience because I don't know everyone.

411
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 2: But not just for the Outlaws, but for Black Pop

412
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: or for the Henry Paul band, those people were very grounded,

413
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 2: earthy and traditional in their taste and in their behavior

414
00:34:53,680 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 2: and in their musical choices. Our audience for those and

415
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: even today for those bands, are people that are middle

416
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 2: class white American people of a normal, hard working background

417
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 2: of success and you know the whole from family to

418
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 2: growing up and getting a job and doing what you

419
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: knew you needed to do for your family. Our audience

420
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 2: is very Americana in a true sense of the word.

421
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 2: Blackhawk's audience is very young. The Outlaws audience is older.

422
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 2: But they both when you look at them, you know

423
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 2: they got jobs and lives. These are not people that

424
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 2: wander in, you know, like with nothing. They worked hard

425
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: and they have a life. I mean the clothes that

426
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 2: they wear, or the way that they interact with you,

427
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 2: or the affection that they are capable of giving you.

428
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 2: You get the impression that these are people that are

429
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 2: like you. They're like me.

430
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 1: Okay, you say after the show, you interact with the audience.

431
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: I had, okay. So that's not a normal feature. You

432
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: don't come out to the merge table every night.

433
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 2: We did for a long time. We did for a

434
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 2: long time.

435
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: What changed.

436
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 2: I'm seventy six. I just you know, I have done

437
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 2: this for a long time. I just said to myself,

438
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 2: when I'm done with the show, I'm good to come

439
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 2: out and say hello. I always give everybody with it,

440
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 2: but I'm not going to haul the band out and

441
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 2: sit at a table. We did that for our decade,

442
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: and it was really a good thing to do. It

443
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 2: was good for us to do that. It was a

444
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: very accessible part of who we were. But we're not

445
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 2: that in every true sense of the word. We're not

446
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 2: that altogether. These days, I get done with the show,

447
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 2: I go to the bus, I take off those damn

448
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: type pants and those cowboy groups. I put on my

449
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 2: shorts and I sit there and I tally up the score.

450
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 2: I think about how many people came. I think about

451
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 2: how the band felt and performed. I consider the reaction.

452
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 2: We got to the evening and we don't have to

453
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: ring it up in all categories. But a good night.

454
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: It's a good night. And I knew I did my job,

455
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 2: and to coin a phrase from a few good men,

456
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: I'd do it again. And we just got to the

457
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 2: point where we were okay to go to the bus

458
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 2: and just stop. And I always come off the bus

459
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 2: and go out and say hello and sign stuff. But

460
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 2: I don't haul the band out to the merch table.

461
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 2: I don't do meet and reads. I'm good.

462
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: The nature of rock and roll is it's an evening event.

463
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: Let's just assume, for the sake of discussion, you get

464
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 1: off the stage at eleven, you do your tally. How

465
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 1: do you calm down and ultimately go to sleep.

466
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 2: I just sit there. I sit there, and I call home.

467
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 2: I'm not one of those guys that can jump right

468
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: into bed after the show. I'm pretty ant, so I

469
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 2: sit there. I'm usually the last one of the last

470
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 2: band members to go to bed and one of the

471
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 2: first band members to get up, and in my own

472
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 2: home I'm usually the last person to go to sleep

473
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 2: in the first person, though I've always been like that.

474
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 2: I don't want to miss anything.

475
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: Okay, since you're tallying up every night and you've been

476
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: doing this for a while. The Reformed Outlaws is the

477
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: audience going up, going down in number? Do you care

478
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: to whatever degree?

479
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Hey, you know, we don't have control over all

480
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 2: of that, but the Outlaws have built an incredible following

481
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: in the last fifteen years, bringing the band back from

482
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 2: where it was when I took over after Hughey's passing.

483
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 2: To bring the band back has been a very successful endeavor.

484
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:19,919
Speaker 2: And we're not headlining arenas, we're in theaters, so it's

485
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 2: all relative relative to the band's place. The band's place

486
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 2: is a smaller sort of place than other bands. We

487
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 2: just were never that well known, and rightfully so, we

488
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 2: didn't have, you know, whatever it was that made Bruce

489
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 2: Springsteen what he is. What we had, and we loved

490
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 2: who we were and what we have, but it was

491
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 2: different hours and I mean, I'm thankful that we have

492
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 2: what we have. I don't look at it and go, gosh,

493
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 2: I sure wish we were, you know, at Madison Square

494
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 2: Garden tonight instead of you know, BB Kinks, I'm I'm

495
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 2: I think smart enough to realize that whatever it is

496
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 2: you have you're thankful for. You don't sit and dream

497
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: of more. I'm very happy with what we have and

498
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 2: we've built the band back up and they're doing good numbers.

499
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 2: That's why the Outlaws are out there with thirty eight

500
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 2: special in Kansas on a really cool tour in America

501
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 2: this year. That's why the Outlaws get the phone call

502
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: to come out and do the Leonard Skinner tour in Canada.

503
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 2: The Outlaws are one of the great values in the

504
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 2: music business. People at aeg Or Live Nation they come

505
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 2: out and see the Outlaws and go, wow, that's absolutely incredible,

506
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: and you can get them for a song. It's not

507
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 2: like these gaudy numbers that these people are hanging out there.

508
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 2: You can buy the band relative comparatively inexpensively, and they

509
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 2: put a really respectable face on the start of a show.

510
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 2: There's no original members in the band coming out with

511
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 2: knee braces, no shorts. You know, it's a very respectable

512
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 2: part of a two or three acts show. We get

513
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 2: after it. We still show some nights. We just say

514
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 2: that Kansas sounds incredible. How many original members that I

515
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 2: don't give it. They say in Great thirty eight Special,

516
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 2: different kind of band. It's more of a pop band.

517
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 2: They sound great. Don Barnes has that band in really

518
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,720
Speaker 2: good shape. I've got the Outlaws in really good shape. Kansas.

519
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 2: I'm not sure who's running the show there, but they're

520
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 2: in really good shape. That three act show is one

521
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 2: of the greatest things out there because Kansas is not

522
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 2: a Southern rock band. Really, thirty eight Special is somewhat

523
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 2: of a hybrid, So you get a really great musical

524
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 2: evening and all three of those bands are playing at

525
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 2: the top of their game.

526
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: Okay, in the book, they're ups and downs before the

527
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 1: Outlaws make it, members are coming, members are leaving. The

528
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: Outlaws have their Heyday than their Denu mall, and it

529
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: seems like no one has any money. So how did

530
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: that work out? Did you ever make any money of

531
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: the Outlaws?

532
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 2: No, not the kind of money that I've heard about

533
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: people making. Let me say that there are five members

534
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 2: of the Outlaws. Wikipedia is a manipulated storyline. It's not.

535
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with who the Outlaws are.

536
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 2: The Outlaws were Huey Thomason, Henry Paul, Billy Jones, Monte Yojo,

537
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 2: and Frank o'keeth. Those five people were the Outlaws. There

538
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 2: was a band called the Outlaws that those people were

539
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 2: in and out of before it wasn't the Outlaws. The

540
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:56,879
Speaker 2: Outlaws really weren't the Outlaws until nineteen seventy two when

541
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: we put the band together by seven. It was a

542
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 2: five piece group. Had nothing to do with the bar

543
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 2: band or the fraternity you know, high school band that

544
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 2: had that name. It was those five people who wrote

545
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 2: and recorded songs, original music that went out as the

546
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 2: Outlaws and got the record deals. So anything other than that,

547
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 2: people that came later the band was, in my opinion, abused,

548
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 2: just treated very cavalier and very reckless. And that you

549
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 2: have this long list of names that people that have

550
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 2: been in the Outlaws. It's embarrassing to me to a

551
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 2: certain extent because the five people that got the band

552
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 2: their deal and went out and recorded those first three records,

553
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: that was the musical personality of the band. All the

554
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 2: other things were sort of made to pet your weight

555
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 2: the band's career, and fair enough, it did what it

556
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 2: was supposed to do. But I was a party to

557
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 2: making some decisions that were looking back, not good decisions.

558
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 2: We had some problems with Frank O'Keefe, the substance issues,

559
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 2: and there were things that he did that were not

560
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: in his best interest you put it that way. But

561
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 2: we could have helped him. We could have said, Frank,

562
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 2: you need help, you need to stop, you need to

563
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 2: do this. We can't be a band without you. We

564
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: need you. We didn't know that. We thought, well, if

565
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 2: Frank was going to go off the rail, then we

566
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: go get somebody else to take his place and we'd

567
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: be fine. But it wasn't fine. It wasn't fine. The

568
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: person that we got to take his place was good.

569
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 2: It wasn't what we were and we didn't know that.

570
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 2: We didn't know that. If I had known what I

571
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 2: know now, I would have worked a lot harder with

572
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 2: my friend Frank to make sure he stayed in the

573
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 2: band of the band stayed hole. And I think if

574
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 2: people saw the importance of the original members of the

575
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 2: band for being inherent to the band's personality and success,

576
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 2: that we would have all tried harder. We wouldn't have

577
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:54,359
Speaker 2: been so quick to cut and run. And I love

578
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 2: the way it feels to be in a band with

579
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 2: people for a long period of time. It's kind of

580
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 2: like a marriage or a relationship of any substance, you know,

581
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 2: like your your friends. I don't know who your friends are.

582
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's people in your life that you know

583
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 2: that you love for being your friend, and that feeling

584
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 2: is very, very very important. And you know, the band,

585
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 2: it would kind of approach a certain level and then

586
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 2: it would kind of come apart self somewhat self destruct

587
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 2: and once that happened, it was hard to get it back.

588
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 2: I think the people that really did well in the

589
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 2: music business, and I'm going to use like led Zeppelin

590
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: for an example, they monetize their popularity and their personality.

591
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 2: Little Feet probably not so much. Does that mean little

592
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 2: Feet isn't important? No, they're very important. Does that mean

593
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 2: they made a lot of money. I don't know, but

594
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 2: probably not not. In the scheme. You know, Toto, Everyone

595
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 2: loved Toto and respected them. They're incredible musicians. Did Toto

596
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 2: go out and make enough money to retire on and

597
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 2: walk away from you know? Probably not. So it's just

598
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 2: kind of the luck of the draw and the wisdom

599
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 2: to see the value and the loyalty.

600
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: Okay, you've been in a number of good iterations. You've

601
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: been in the Outlaws, You've been in Black Hawk. Are

602
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: there any royalties coming and then Henry Paul ban any

603
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,839
Speaker 1: royalties coming in from any of that, Or you've got

604
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:54,720
Speaker 1: to work for a living.

605
00:49:55,160 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 2: Got to work for a living. There are royalties just

606
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 2: going to the grocery store. You better have either a

607
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 2: good job or some money coming in from somewhere. The

608
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 2: Blackmawk thing was my first experience with commercial success. It

609
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 2: was like commercial success on a grand scale. The Outlaws

610
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 2: had gold records. We didn't have platinum Alvens. We had

611
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 2: gold records. Blackhawk had multi platinum albums. Was success on

612
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 2: a level like I had never seen or heard, and

613
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 2: there was money in that. There was money. There still is.

614
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 2: The advent of nineties country and the popularity of what

615
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 2: that represents is very, very rewarding financially compared to what

616
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 2: though Blake Shelton, what do you think he gets to night? Yeah,

617
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 2: you know, maybe in three or four shows he makes

618
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 2: what I make gross in a year. But I don't

619
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 2: wake up in the morning on God, I wish I

620
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 2: was Blake. I kind of try and make the most

621
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:25,800
Speaker 2: of what I have and find success in a form

622
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 2: that is personal to me. I can't you know, Ronnie

623
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: Dunn Brooks and Dunn, Alan Jackson, Alan Jackson, I remember

624
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 2: when he made a pub deal, sold his publishing for

625
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 2: like fourteen million dollars. Well, that ought to be enough

626
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 2: in and of itself to get you to the other side.

627
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 2: I have a beautiful family and my health. I have

628
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 2: a really nice group of people to play with on

629
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 2: the road. Lucky as a pig and poop to have

630
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty shows a year, and to go

631
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: out and make a pretty good living. I feel lucky

632
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 2: to have that. I don't. I don't look around and

633
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 2: go crap. I wish I was making, you know, three

634
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 2: or four hundred thousand dollars a night, you know, And

635
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 2: I don't know what that means. I don't. Bob Billen's

636
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 2: got a lot of money. He doesn't look like it's

637
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 2: done him a whole lot of good, you know. And

638
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 2: I love Bob Byllan, but you know, I mean he

639
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,879
Speaker 2: doesn't walk around in Pierre card En suits. I mean

640
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 2: he's a scruffy guy. That so what does it take?

641
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 2: It doesn't take much fun.

642
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 1: Okay. Something that is said more directly in your book,

643
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: which you reference earlier. You're basically fired squeezed out of

644
00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 1: the outlaws. In addition, once you we join him, uie

645
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:02,240
Speaker 1: does it again?

646
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 2: Right?

647
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 3: How did you deal with all that?

648
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 2: Well, there's a The second time didn't mean anything to me.

649
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 2: I was good to go. I didn't you know there

650
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 2: the band business let me trying to just put it

651
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 2: into what I considered to be proper perspective. The band

652
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:36,760
Speaker 2: business is always leveraged by your perceived value to the group.

653
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 2: And Jewey saw himself for who he was in that band.

654
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 2: He's saying, there goes another love song. He's sang green

655
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 2: Grass and high Tide, and he's sang Ghost Riders in

656
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 2: the Sky. And I don't know what Hugh he was thinking,

657
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,919
Speaker 2: but I have every reason I believe he probably thought

658
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 2: I'm pretty much the band and I don't need anyone else.

659
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:11,399
Speaker 2: But that wasn't true. But but when that mindset sort

660
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 2: of takes over and you stop being a band with Henry,

661
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 2: or a band with Billy, or a band like I

662
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 2: said with Frank, you know, you start to show yourself

663
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 2: to your audience to be less, not more. And if

664
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 2: those decisions are financial, and they very well may have been,

665
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 2: so you get more. What's one hundred percent of nothing?

666
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 2: You know what's twenty percent of a lot? So I

667
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 2: you know I in both cases, when I was showing

668
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 2: the door the first time, it was a signific I

669
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 2: can blow to the band because I had helped get

670
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 2: us to where we were. Was not just a musical journey,

671
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 2: but it was a journey based on knowing where you

672
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 2: were going. I mean for me to have helped and

673
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 2: had a hand in the Outlaws, Henry Paul band, the

674
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 2: Outlaws again and Black I'll go out and get major

675
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 2: label deals. Hmm, gee, Henry, what did you do in

676
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 2: the band? I was a good salesman. I could sell it,

677
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 2: and I looked like a duck, and I had web feet,

678
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 2: and I quacked when I spoke, and people believed in me.

679
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 2: They kept giving me opportunities because I was believable. And

680
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 2: at one point, you know, the Outlaws manager said, Chewi,

681
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 2: you need to call up Henry because this band's going

682
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 2: to crack and it's just coming apart and things aren't

683
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 2: working in You and Hank were great back in the day,

684
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 2: and you just need to pick up the phone and

685
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 2: get Henry back in the band and Okay, let's do that.

686
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 2: And then by nineteen eighty eight we were having a

687
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 2: lot of fun. We were playing to small audiences. We

688
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 2: knew we weren't going to come back to some grand career,

689
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 2: but I was having fun. I had the checkbook. Huey

690
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 2: and I were making really good money. The band was

691
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 2: being paid a very very respectable wage, and we were

692
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 2: riding around the country, playing for fifteen hundred people and

693
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:47,439
Speaker 2: having a ball. But you know when Hue when Hughey said, well,

694
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 2: I see what Henry's doing, I see how we're I

695
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 2: want more, or maybe I think it's good. Take it,

696
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:00,839
Speaker 2: because I'm going to Nashville and I'm going to do

697
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 2: something different and I'll see your ass later. And I'm

698
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:10,879
Speaker 2: good And with my sixty five sting ray cruising down

699
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 2: the back alley in Nashville, Tennessee, coming up on Hughey

700
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 2: standing out there one day, you know, in a letter

701
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: skinnered recording session. It didn't hurt my feelings, you know,

702
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 2: to feel good about myself and the effort that I

703
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 2: was able to create and show for my hard work.

704
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 2: And so I don't know, I don't know.

705
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 1: Okay, when you are fired a did you see it? Coming,

706
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:46,919
Speaker 1: which it sounds like you didn't be in retrospect, because

707
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've gone over this a million times in

708
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: your life. Certainly at the time, was there anything that

709
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: you could have played different or was it inevitable?

710
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 2: I think, first of all, I didn't it coming, uh,

711
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 2: But I wasn't surprised. I mean, I kind of knew

712
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 2: who I was dealing with all along. It was never,

713
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 2: you know, a family environment, and the band was always

714
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 2: somewhat of a business. But I think that it was

715
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 2: so painful to me and such a such an ego

716
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 2: destroying moment, and in such a a bitter, hurtful place

717
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 2: that I was not used to being in that my

718
00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 2: immediate reaction was put a new group together, go get

719
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 2: another major label deal, find a really a good friend

720
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 2: to help you with your career, and get back in

721
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 2: the game. That's what I did, and I found help

722
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 2: out there from people that were capable of helping me.

723
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: Okay, you are in the Outlaws. I had seen the

724
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: Outlaws in their heyday opening for the Stones. They had

725
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: big success, certainly with high Tides and green Grass, but

726
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 1: it was a relatively faceless band. There was not somebody

727
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 1: who stuck out in front. You're now out of the band.

728
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: You were in a successful band. How do you convince

729
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 1: Atlantic to give you a deal?

730
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 2: Well, I think my role as the frontman for the

731
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 2: band first and foremost, and I think that my artistic recovery,

732
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 2: writing songs like gray Ghost, writing songs like so Long,

733
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 2: writing you know, Hallmark songs that when A and R

734
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 2: directors listened to them, or executive vice presidents from the

735
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 2: label listened to him, they said, we loved your in

736
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 2: the band, We loved the outlaws, we loved you. I

737
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 2: was somewhat of a more visible member of the group

738
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 2: because I fronted the band and they wanted they were

739
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 2: willing to support me. Michael Kleffner was the was the

740
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 2: vice president of national promotion at Arista, and went out

741
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 2: and promoted the band at rock oriented radio, album oriented

742
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 2: rock radio and got green Grass on the air, and

743
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 2: he and I became really close friends. It was clear

744
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 2: to me that it wasn't just about the band. It

745
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 2: was clear to me that it was about the promotion

746
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 2: department at Arista and the band and the record we made,

747
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 2: and those people that went out and killed for us.

748
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 2: So Michael left Arista and got the executive vice presidential

749
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 2: chair at Atlantic Records under Jerry Greenberg. And when I

750
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 2: left the Outlaws, Michael said, if you need a budget

751
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 2: to record demos, let me know. I would like to

752
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 2: help you. It wasn't a lot of money. Five six

753
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 2: seventy eight thousand dollars. We went in and cut ten sides,

754
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 2: brought him to Michael, brought him to Ton Journam, brought

755
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 2: him to John Kalodner sat down, Yes, we want to

756
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 2: sign this band. We loved the Outlaws and we love you.

757
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 2: Henry and Joe Sullivan, you know who managed Charlie Daniels

758
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 2: said I would love to hand your career. I think

759
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 2: the world of view. I mean, these people were close

760
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 2: to me because I invested a lot of myself in

761
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 2: these relationships. And they said, absolutely, you're on Atlantic Sound

762
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 2: seventy manages your career, and Paragon is still going to

763
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 2: represent you in the live music area and you're good

764
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 2: to goud Us. Oh okay, Now we're out in the

765
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 2: road with Charlie and skinnered and we're back. Not skinned

766
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 2: they were gone, but we're out in a road and Tucker,

767
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 2: we're back with familiar faces doing what we've always done

768
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 2: and it kind of came. It was kind of coinciding

769
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 2: with the decline of southern rock. There was a fad,

770
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 2: a musical moment for that genre, and it hit a

771
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 2: high water market started to evaporate. Molly Hatchett had come

772
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 2: onto the scene late in the in the game and

773
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 2: with a significant amount of commitment from Epic, did very well.

774
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 2: But the Henry palmband for me was that was was

775
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 2: a I'm looking for the word, but it was. It

776
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 2: gave me my self respect back. It gave me, you know,

777
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 2: my my my opinion of positive opinion of myself, because

778
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 2: honestly it was it was a hard thing to come

779
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 2: back from. And uh, you know, without the help and

780
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 2: support of people that were my friends, and without my

781
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 2: hard work and focus, I'd have done what Frank did,

782
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 2: and that would start a painting company in clear Water

783
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 2: and paint houses. I didn't do that. I fought back

784
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 2: and got back in the game.

785
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 1: Okay, what was the decision to call it the Henry

786
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:11,680
Speaker 1: Paul Band.

787
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 2: Oh Jesus, we just couldn't. First of all, the Charlie

788
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 2: Daniels band, the Henry Paul band. You know, Joe Sullivan

789
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 2: was very much inclined to want to hang my name

790
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 2: on the band. I looked for a name. We all

791
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 2: looked for a name. We couldn't find a name. I

792
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 2: was signed to the record deal. The members of the

793
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 2: group were signed as well, but it was my band,

794
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 2: and we just couldn't come up with anything better. So

795
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 2: we just said, well, let's just call it the Henry

796
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 2: Paul band.

797
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: I doesn't sound like you were happy.

798
01:04:53,080 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 2: Well I wasn't happy, but I accepted it. And along

799
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 2: with that came a little bit more you know, weight pressure. Uh.

800
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 2: I just kind of went along with it and decided,

801
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 2: what the hell difference does it make if we're you know,

802
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 2: the Great Ghost Album has stood a very very significant

803
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 2: positive test of time. And while it wasn't a record

804
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 2: that you know, set records at the retail level, it

805
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 2: was a very respectable record and over the years has

806
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 2: risen in the ranks of people's opinion. And I was

807
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 2: ready to lock asses with everybody. I mean, I wanted

808
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 2: to go on tour with the Outlaws and you know,

809
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 2: and steal the show. I mean, I you know, I was.

810
01:05:56,680 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 2: I was hurt and angry and very ambitious and I

811
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 2: wanted to get that and you know, it was it

812
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 2: was a very significant success for me to go to

813
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 2: Atlantic and to go on the road again and to

814
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 2: put myself back in a place where I wanted to be.

815
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 2: It was a big deal.

816
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 1: Okay, those are great achievements. Atlantic sticks with you for

817
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 1: four albums. There's not a breakout hit. What was the

818
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 1: experience of being in Atlantic. Were they always on your side?

819
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: Were they saying, hey, you know, we'll make another record

820
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 1: but this time.

821
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:00,919
Speaker 2: No, they were on my side. I mean I knew

822
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:05,919
Speaker 2: every regional promotional director. I knew everybody the label. I'd

823
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:07,960
Speaker 2: go up to the label when I was in New York.

824
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 2: You know, Claudner and I were friends. I mean, John

825
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 2: and I were friends when he was a journalist at

826
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 2: the Inquirer. That's how we met. And those people were

827
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:23,760
Speaker 2: definitely pulling for me, and they knew that I hadn't

828
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:28,520
Speaker 2: found commercial success, but obviously they were unwilling to just

829
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 2: toss me aside. And this was after Michael was gone.

830
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 2: The first three records, they were all uniquely different records,

831
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:41,439
Speaker 2: but they all were very good in what they were.

832
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 2: The third record, especially by the time I made the

833
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 2: last record for Atlantic, it was pretty much over and

834
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:56,479
Speaker 2: I was playing, you know, some different game. MTV had

835
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 2: come into its own and we were just trying to

836
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 2: find a way to be in the on the landscape.

837
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 2: But it wasn't meant to be and it and it

838
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 2: didn't do anything to help me. And it was a

839
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 2: very hard lesson to learn about try and be yourself

840
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 2: and live and die by that and don't try and

841
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 2: you know, be something that you're not. And that was

842
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 2: a big Artistically, that was a big lesson for me

843
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 2: to learn. But I don't know that record has things

844
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 2: about it that are are good. But the first album,

845
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 2: the third album, and to a certain extent, the second album,

846
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 2: all those records were really well written and played. And

847
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 2: I got to be who I wanted to be. I

848
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:55,720
Speaker 2: got to stay in a business I want to be.

849
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 2: Our tour. It wasn't a whole lot of money, but

850
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 2: there was money enough for us to make a living,

851
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 2: and we toured heavily and I got to stay in

852
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 2: the game.

853
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:11,680
Speaker 1: Claudner ultimately goes to Geffen. Claudner is a guy with opinions.

854
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 1: Did you converse with him? Did he give you input?

855
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 2: Yes? A lot, But you know, John was good. John

856
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 2: was helped make some very good decisions for me and

857
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 2: John tried really hard to help me. Uh but you know,

858
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 2: when John went to Geffen and cozy it up with

859
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 2: the people at Aerosmith, you know, and started wearing the

860
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 2: white suit, it just was a different version of him.

861
01:09:58,120 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 2: He and I were really good friends for a lo time.

862
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:07,879
Speaker 2: When I would go to La myself, John Klaudner, Mary Turner,

863
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:13,679
Speaker 2: Sam Bellamy and Paraquak Kelly, those people we were in separate.

864
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 2: Pat Kelly, we were inseparable, though we would do everything together.

865
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:22,639
Speaker 2: We'd go out together, we'd go to bars and drink,

866
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 2: we'd have That was my socials core in Los Angeles.

867
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:33,080
Speaker 2: And Jim Ladd lured me up to his house on

868
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:37,680
Speaker 2: the hill with a stupid railroad car and I did

869
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 2: an interview that I deeply regret. We got to drinking

870
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 2: in the afternoon. But in La John was a friend

871
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 2: and we just were really close. And Pat Kelly and

872
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:56,679
Speaker 2: I we still remain friends. He's had serious health issues.

873
01:10:56,760 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 2: I feel bad for Pat because you know, has been

874
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:06,559
Speaker 2: not well. I still talk to Sam every now and then.

875
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:19,520
Speaker 2: Mary's gone. She she married.

876
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:25,320
Speaker 1: Up, although now they're both gone. In any event, you've

877
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 1: got a family, you've got kids, you're done with Atlantic.

878
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 1: What goes through your head.

879
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 2: Well, going back to the Outlaws, there was a feeling

880
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 2: of success in going back, like being in Like do

881
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 2: you want to come back in the band? Because I

882
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 2: think it'd be better if you were in the group.

883
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:53,000
Speaker 2: That was helpful to me from the standpoint of my

884
01:11:53,760 --> 01:12:01,719
Speaker 2: self esteem. For the first two or three years, from

885
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:06,639
Speaker 2: like eighty three eighty four, it was a little bit.

886
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:11,599
Speaker 2: It wasn't what dreams were made of. We were flying,

887
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 2: we were renting cars. It wasn't fun for me. There

888
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 2: was substance issues, which there normally are, and we hadn't

889
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:30,559
Speaker 2: gotten past that. On my part, you know, I was

890
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:37,520
Speaker 2: not wholesale invested in what that was. I always kept

891
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 2: my distance to a certain extent from that. But at

892
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:54,120
Speaker 2: one point I fired our manager slash road manager. He

893
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 2: was a great guy, and he was an agent at

894
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 2: Paragon who got in our corner and really tried to

895
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:03,680
Speaker 2: help us. But he was but he was expensive and

896
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:12,479
Speaker 2: when I asked him, you know, the try looking for

897
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 2: something else to do. I got control of the band

898
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 2: financially and I turned it around. I turned it around

899
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 2: for Hueye and myself and I had a lot of

900
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 2: fun In nineteen eighty five, six eighty seven. We cut

901
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 2: that record for Spencer Crawfer, and you know, it was

902
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 2: an odd record. We kept trying to get into the

903
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:43,559
Speaker 2: record business, but the more we tried, the more it

904
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:45,840
Speaker 2: became clear that we weren't going to come back and

905
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 2: have a new life. But I had a really lot

906
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:58,880
Speaker 2: of fun touring around the United States playing smaller venues,

907
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:06,679
Speaker 2: and we had a good band. I bought a conversion band,

908
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:13,240
Speaker 2: and Hughie and I the band, the five people in

909
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 2: the band, and the road manager, this nice Jewish boy

910
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:20,479
Speaker 2: from Long Island who I had shown the Ropes to

911
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:24,599
Speaker 2: and he was a really sweet and very hard working guy,

912
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 2: and I loved him. He was our road manager. And

913
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:34,840
Speaker 2: the six of us were traveling this in this conversion ban.

914
01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 2: It was great. We booked shows they were all within

915
01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:43,880
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty two three hundred miles, and we'd

916
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 2: stay overnight at the hotel. We'd get up in the morning.

917
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:49,599
Speaker 2: We put our suitcase in the conversion band. We're all

918
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 2: six of us by land. We drive to the next

919
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 2: town and there was a rider of fifteen foot rider

920
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:59,559
Speaker 2: cube truck with our gear in it, and there were

921
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:02,200
Speaker 2: two or three crew members and they would leave and

922
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:04,200
Speaker 2: they would go do their thing, and we would show

923
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:09,040
Speaker 2: up in time to check into the hotel for me

924
01:15:09,120 --> 01:15:11,759
Speaker 2: to go put on my running shorts and go run

925
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:14,960
Speaker 2: thirty or forty minutes and come back and shower to

926
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:17,920
Speaker 2: a sound check, eat my stupid food that I was

927
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:21,559
Speaker 2: eating back then, and go put on a great show,

928
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:25,640
Speaker 2: go back to the hotel, go to bed, get up

929
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:27,639
Speaker 2: the next morning. It was just great. We had it,

930
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 2: I had it figured out, and we were doing good.

931
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:37,560
Speaker 2: Hue and I were making a pretty good living. And

932
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:45,280
Speaker 2: that lasted from eighty six, eighty five, eighty six, eighty six,

933
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:48,880
Speaker 2: eighty seven, eighty eight. At the end of the New

934
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:52,200
Speaker 2: Year's Eve of nineteen eighty eight was my last show

935
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 2: in the band, and I had talked to Hughie and

936
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:02,360
Speaker 2: he said, I, I would really like to go it alone.

937
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 2: And I said, well, Buster, if that's what you want,

938
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:09,360
Speaker 2: I'm good with that. I get it, and I'm good

939
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:12,960
Speaker 2: to go. Because I knew I was going to go

940
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 2: to Nashville. I had a friend of mine in my ear,

941
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 2: and I thought, well, if you want the band by yourself,

942
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:24,880
Speaker 2: you can have it, and I'm happy to leave. And

943
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 2: so I left. One of the other guys in the

944
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 2: band left as well, and Hughey struck out on his own,

945
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:41,120
Speaker 2: and like from nineteen eighty nine through nineteen ninety four

946
01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:48,120
Speaker 2: or five was a pretty difficult stretch for the Outlaws.

947
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 2: From what I hear numbers, the whole thing got really

948
01:16:55,120 --> 01:17:00,759
Speaker 2: a bit ugly. But I went back back to Tampa.

949
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 2: I took the conversion vand I sold it. It was

950
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:10,519
Speaker 2: an immaculate condition. I bought a SUV. I bought a

951
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:14,840
Speaker 2: couple of properties in Tampa, and I renovated them and

952
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 2: turned them over for a pretty good profit. Started to

953
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:23,040
Speaker 2: commute to Nashville and write songs. I drive to Nashville,

954
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 2: seven hundred miles ten hours. I'd pull up to my

955
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 2: manager's house in Nashville, a guy by the name of

956
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:40,040
Speaker 2: Rick Alter. And I get up Monday or Tuesday morning,

957
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 2: and I'd booked four or five writing appointments for the week.

958
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 2: And I come back Friday, and I get in my

959
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 2: truck and I drive home, and I had a little

960
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 2: home studio, and i'd go up and I had demo

961
01:17:56,200 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 2: the three or four or five songs. Two weeks later,

962
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:02,800
Speaker 2: I'd ride back and I just kept doing that. I

963
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:10,280
Speaker 2: would make twenty trips a year and I compile this

964
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 2: body of work and Rick played it for Dubois, who

965
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:21,800
Speaker 2: had just opened RAST in Nashville. He loved it. He said,

966
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:26,639
Speaker 2: I love Hank's voice. And so he took me around

967
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:29,080
Speaker 2: to the publishers and said, I'm going to sign Henry.

968
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 2: He wants it needs a pub deal. So I signed

969
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:39,639
Speaker 2: with EMI and they gave me, you know, six figures

970
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:41,760
Speaker 2: over three years, enough for me to live on day.

971
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 2: My bills continue to develop my career, and Blackhawk was formed.

972
01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:50,759
Speaker 2: And I'll be damned if I wasn't back on aris

973
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:57,760
Speaker 2: To Records with a really really strong new album that

974
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:00,640
Speaker 2: sold a couple of millions copies.

975
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:08,520
Speaker 1: Okay for the last handful of years, everybody's going to Nashville.

976
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:12,120
Speaker 1: How did you know to go to Nashville? Thirty five years.

977
01:19:11,960 --> 01:19:18,719
Speaker 2: Ago, I was at the Florida State Fair. It's in Tampa,

978
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:22,679
Speaker 2: and my then wife and I and the kids were there,

979
01:19:22,720 --> 01:19:26,719
Speaker 2: were you know, kids were there. I saw these people

980
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:30,240
Speaker 2: standing in this really long line. They were waiting to

981
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:35,479
Speaker 2: get into the grandstand. The jugs were playing, and as

982
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:37,759
Speaker 2: I walked by this line of people, I kept looking

983
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:43,040
Speaker 2: at them and I thought to myself, they looked like fans.

984
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:46,640
Speaker 2: To me, those people look like people that would that

985
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:49,519
Speaker 2: came to the Outlaws show or came to Henry Paul

986
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:53,680
Speaker 2: Bancho Goos. And I always had loved country music and

987
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 2: was more or less seen as the country music influence

988
01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:04,439
Speaker 2: in the band. And I had a songwriting partner that

989
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:07,880
Speaker 2: told me, he said, HENK, if you just declare that

990
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:10,280
Speaker 2: you're a country music singer and go to Nashville, you

991
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:13,639
Speaker 2: can do this. So I kind of took his word

992
01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:17,160
Speaker 2: for it. I took my own sort of instincts, my

993
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:22,599
Speaker 2: own work ethic, and my own salesmanship. I went to

994
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:28,640
Speaker 2: Nashville and started this would be nineteen ninety ninety one,

995
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:38,280
Speaker 2: started to work towards becoming a recording artist again. And

996
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:41,680
Speaker 2: in my drive back and forth from Tampa to Nashville,

997
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:46,560
Speaker 2: I'd passed these silver eagles going up and down the

998
01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:48,960
Speaker 2: road and I just looked at those buses and I

999
01:20:49,120 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 2: just dreamed getting back on and being bad. So Dan

1000
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 2: Stevenson and Dave Robbins and I formed the group. Tim

1001
01:21:07,439 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 2: was a songwriting partner of theirs, and they came to

1002
01:21:13,439 --> 01:21:15,200
Speaker 2: him one day and said, we want to start a

1003
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 2: band or something. What do you think And he said well,

1004
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:22,800
Speaker 2: I'm working with Henry. I think if you guys want

1005
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:25,760
Speaker 2: to work with Hank, he's got a great voice, and

1006
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:29,640
Speaker 2: I think that there might be something good come from it.

1007
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:34,000
Speaker 2: And we all saw that as a very real opportunity.

1008
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:38,080
Speaker 2: We knew that if we could focus on doing what

1009
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:39,800
Speaker 2: we were asked to do and do it right, we

1010
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:42,559
Speaker 2: could have what we wanted. And we did. We got

1011
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:47,000
Speaker 2: what we wanted and he I talked to Tim the

1012
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:50,400
Speaker 2: other day and I said, you know, Tim, I always

1013
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:53,240
Speaker 2: think about you, and I always thank you for the

1014
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:57,280
Speaker 2: opportunity you gave me late in my life, as I

1015
01:21:57,320 --> 01:21:59,960
Speaker 2: was forty three years old and people that age didn't

1016
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:05,360
Speaker 2: get record deals. And he said, well, Henry, I know

1017
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:07,400
Speaker 2: what you're saying, but he said, I got to tell

1018
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 2: you you made good on it. You made good on

1019
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 2: the opportunity you would give it. And I thought about that,

1020
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:19,840
Speaker 2: and I thought, well, you're right, we did. I mean,

1021
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:23,240
Speaker 2: think about if you're a record executive and you've got

1022
01:22:23,720 --> 01:22:27,640
Speaker 2: Alan Jackson Brooks and Dunn Blackhawk, a Diamond Rio and

1023
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:31,960
Speaker 2: Pam Tillis all selling platinum and multi platinum records, what

1024
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:36,559
Speaker 2: do you think the bonus structure was probably through the

1025
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:42,439
Speaker 2: roof so they were rolling. We had careers. You know,

1026
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:45,680
Speaker 2: we were on the road making a living playing live shows.

1027
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:51,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's important to recognize a performer's

1028
01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:56,280
Speaker 2: place in the mix. You might make a lot of

1029
01:22:56,280 --> 01:22:59,800
Speaker 2: money if you've become a household name. I mean, you

1030
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:01,720
Speaker 2: have to go out and really work hard for it

1031
01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 2: and leave your home. But these guys in the record

1032
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 2: business were businessmen making money, a lot of money, a

1033
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:13,599
Speaker 2: lot more money than we ever made. But we were

1034
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:20,680
Speaker 2: like these, you know, artistically inclined dreamers that could not

1035
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:27,200
Speaker 2: give up the idea of being a musical personality that

1036
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:32,160
Speaker 2: people loved. And that was the that was the attraction,

1037
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:35,400
Speaker 2: and that's what we did. But the Heiress, the thing

1038
01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:38,160
Speaker 2: in Nashville was huge to me, it was huge.

1039
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:42,880
Speaker 1: So what was different about the Nashville country business as

1040
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:45,520
Speaker 1: opposed to the New York LA rock business.

1041
01:23:46,680 --> 01:23:48,880
Speaker 2: Well, the New York l A rock business, you were

1042
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:54,519
Speaker 2: so far away from it. I mean, I'm a earl again.

1043
01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:03,320
Speaker 2: Ovid Henri go in his office, put my record on

1044
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:07,800
Speaker 2: the turntable and put the needle down. You know, that's

1045
01:24:07,800 --> 01:24:14,040
Speaker 2: a good soul Madri. I liked that song. Yeah, that

1046
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:18,160
Speaker 2: was it. That was it. That was it. That was

1047
01:24:18,240 --> 01:24:20,960
Speaker 2: my rapport with Arma. You know that once a year,

1048
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:23,000
Speaker 2: I go in the office and I play my record.

1049
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:30,439
Speaker 2: You know, Jerry Greenberg and I were pretty friendly, you know,

1050
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:33,800
Speaker 2: on a business level. He would invite me to go

1051
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:38,720
Speaker 2: fishing in his birtroom and we would you know, we

1052
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:42,840
Speaker 2: would do things like that. But with Ariston Nashville, it

1053
01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:46,400
Speaker 2: was like now Tim and I. He runs the label.

1054
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 2: He and I are the same age, were the same age.

1055
01:24:51,479 --> 01:25:00,360
Speaker 2: We have so many like minded life experiences. And he's

1056
01:25:00,439 --> 01:25:05,960
Speaker 2: running the label and I'm out promoting my career at radio.

1057
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 2: He's paying for it. And radio decides they want to

1058
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 2: play our record, and Arista they don't make them play

1059
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:24,040
Speaker 2: in my record, but they're very they're very convincing, and

1060
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 2: they get our record played. And now Huey Thomason, who

1061
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:43,240
Speaker 2: was the voice of the Outlaws, I'm the voice of Blackhawk.

1062
01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:47,640
Speaker 2: Now I'm in the you know, the catbird seat a

1063
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:52,600
Speaker 2: little bit, and it doesn't feel bad. And I have

1064
01:25:52,720 --> 01:25:55,880
Speaker 2: to say that during those year or two of going

1065
01:25:55,920 --> 01:26:00,519
Speaker 2: back and forth and being in my home studio, to

1066
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:04,719
Speaker 2: my credit, I learned a lot about how to sing

1067
01:26:05,640 --> 01:26:08,479
Speaker 2: as a singer. I learned a lot about myself it

1068
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:12,559
Speaker 2: was so important. It was the difference between success and

1069
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:18,400
Speaker 2: beg and so I learned a lot late in the

1070
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 2: game about things that mattered, and it came at the

1071
01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:32,840
Speaker 2: right time, and it was very important from the standpoint

1072
01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:37,200
Speaker 2: of my success. I also knew a lot about the

1073
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:40,680
Speaker 2: politics of writing songs with other people. Jim Peterick and

1074
01:26:40,720 --> 01:26:44,920
Speaker 2: I wrote a lot together. John Townsend and I wrote

1075
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:48,360
Speaker 2: a lot together. I went to National Van Stevenson and

1076
01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:50,479
Speaker 2: I wrote a lot together. You get in a room

1077
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:53,839
Speaker 2: with somebody and you don't want to be an ogre.

1078
01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:57,360
Speaker 2: You're trying to collaborate, and I learned a lot about

1079
01:26:57,400 --> 01:27:06,400
Speaker 2: how to do that. It was an enormous learning experience.

1080
01:27:14,640 --> 01:27:19,120
Speaker 1: Okay, over these decades, do you ever think of going

1081
01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 1: straight giving up?

1082
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:31,920
Speaker 2: I thought you meant in a sexual sort of way.

1083
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:41,960
Speaker 2: There was a moment when if my dad had asked me, Henry,

1084
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:48,200
Speaker 2: I need your help on the farm. I want to

1085
01:27:48,240 --> 01:27:52,760
Speaker 2: retire and want I need help. If I think there

1086
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:54,680
Speaker 2: was a moment where if you had asked me to

1087
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:57,760
Speaker 2: do that, I might have done it because I was

1088
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:03,640
Speaker 2: so emotionally invested in our family farm. But he never asked,

1089
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:08,880
Speaker 2: and so I never had the opportunity to do that.

1090
01:28:11,360 --> 01:28:15,719
Speaker 2: That was the only thing that could have possibly taken

1091
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:17,280
Speaker 2: me out of the chair and put me in a

1092
01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:27,160
Speaker 2: different walk of life. Other than that, I was. I

1093
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:30,479
Speaker 2: don't know why, but I think it was just my

1094
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:37,559
Speaker 2: artistic inclination to want to succeed at something like being

1095
01:28:37,600 --> 01:28:41,600
Speaker 2: a recording artist, because very early on, my dream was

1096
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:45,240
Speaker 2: to be a recording artist. That's all I wanted to be.

1097
01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:50,800
Speaker 2: And when I got to be that, then came the

1098
01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:55,439
Speaker 2: commercial gauntlet that allows you to continue to do and

1099
01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:59,720
Speaker 2: be that. And I navigated that with a great deal

1100
01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:05,280
Speaker 2: of finesse and forethought.

1101
01:29:07,360 --> 01:29:10,800
Speaker 1: Let's stop there for a second. The finesse, the forethought.

1102
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:15,880
Speaker 1: You talk about being a good salesman. Can you expand

1103
01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:18,200
Speaker 1: upon those things? How exactly do you do it?

1104
01:29:18,760 --> 01:29:22,280
Speaker 2: Well? I just thought my vision of a creative entity,

1105
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:28,960
Speaker 2: my vision of what I saw well I went towards

1106
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:36,639
Speaker 2: as an idea was valid, it was appealing, It looked

1107
01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:43,400
Speaker 2: and sounded good. The people I surrounded myself were there

1108
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:46,639
Speaker 2: to help me get to where I wanted to go.

1109
01:29:47,880 --> 01:29:52,240
Speaker 2: We were musical partners, but they were asked to be

1110
01:29:52,400 --> 01:30:00,559
Speaker 2: my partner in these bands because I needed them, they

1111
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:08,479
Speaker 2: needed me, And whether it was successful on one level,

1112
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:14,000
Speaker 2: not so successful on another, or ultimately very successful. They

1113
01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:21,479
Speaker 2: all had very visible and tangible sort of destinations. They

1114
01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:24,080
Speaker 2: were a place that I knew I was going and

1115
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:25,720
Speaker 2: what it was going to look and sound like.

1116
01:30:26,960 --> 01:30:31,280
Speaker 1: And okay, but on a one on one basis, I mean,

1117
01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:35,040
Speaker 1: some people get them in a room, they close you. Okay,

1118
01:30:35,680 --> 01:30:40,840
Speaker 1: was it? You obviously had to convey this vision and

1119
01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:46,280
Speaker 1: convince people to work with you. So how did you

1120
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:49,439
Speaker 1: find that you did it? Was it about Okay, let's

1121
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:50,920
Speaker 1: go off for a couple of beers, I got a

1122
01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:53,800
Speaker 1: story to tell you, or get me in the room

1123
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:56,240
Speaker 1: with a guy can say yes, I'll put on my

1124
01:30:56,400 --> 01:30:57,519
Speaker 1: show and it'll go.

1125
01:30:58,520 --> 01:31:03,040
Speaker 2: I think it was all. It was connected like a railroad,

1126
01:31:03,479 --> 01:31:08,880
Speaker 2: like a train. My role in the Outlaws provided for

1127
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:12,360
Speaker 2: me the opportunity for my role in the Henry Paul Band.

1128
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:14,920
Speaker 2: My role in the Outlaws and my role in the

1129
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:18,640
Speaker 2: Henry Paul Band provided for me an opportunity to go

1130
01:31:18,680 --> 01:31:23,000
Speaker 2: to Nashville and to be accepted. I'm writing with Henry

1131
01:31:23,040 --> 01:31:26,400
Speaker 2: Paul from the Outlaws. You remember the Outlaws?

1132
01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:26,960
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1133
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:32,960
Speaker 2: I love the alas I'm writing with Henry today. Well,

1134
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:35,439
Speaker 2: you can't just go in and write with this person.

1135
01:31:36,680 --> 01:31:39,679
Speaker 2: They got to see something in the way of promise.

1136
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:46,120
Speaker 2: So I showed at every turn promise. Henry's really good,

1137
01:31:46,160 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 2: he's smart. Henry's smart. He's really smart. He's good. You're

1138
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:55,280
Speaker 2: gonna like him. He's a really great guy. And man,

1139
01:31:55,320 --> 01:31:58,559
Speaker 2: what he's thinking is pretty cool. And you know, either

1140
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:03,479
Speaker 2: you're onto some thing or your jacket, you know. And

1141
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:08,479
Speaker 2: I felt like I always could see it. I always

1142
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:11,880
Speaker 2: saw what it was going to become, and it became that.

1143
01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:14,880
Speaker 2: And that goes for the Outlaws, because before I was

1144
01:32:15,080 --> 01:32:18,559
Speaker 2: involved with that band, there was no anything to see.

1145
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:23,519
Speaker 2: It became what I saw. People might not like the

1146
01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:29,000
Speaker 2: sound of what that says, but it's absolutely true because

1147
01:32:31,439 --> 01:32:34,439
Speaker 2: I knew where we were going, and Huey was a

1148
01:32:34,479 --> 01:32:36,800
Speaker 2: big part of it. Billy was a big part of it.

1149
01:32:37,200 --> 01:32:39,479
Speaker 2: I was a big part of it, and Frank and

1150
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:42,040
Speaker 2: Monty were a big part of it. But I could

1151
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:48,479
Speaker 2: take the band with my country rock personality at a

1152
01:32:48,520 --> 01:32:51,840
Speaker 2: time when that was really important and really happening. The

1153
01:32:51,880 --> 01:32:57,360
Speaker 2: Outlaws adapted, adopted that sound, and me with my stupid

1154
01:32:57,439 --> 01:33:01,200
Speaker 2: cowboy hat became a part of the band's image and

1155
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:03,840
Speaker 2: everybody in the band started wearing a hat and God

1156
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:07,920
Speaker 2: dang it, Bobby darned if we're not on tour with

1157
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:14,320
Speaker 2: Marshall Tucker. It was just, you know, a social and

1158
01:33:14,680 --> 01:33:18,559
Speaker 2: artistic sort of vision that took you down that road

1159
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:29,880
Speaker 2: with cowboy boots and songs, country rock songs, Stay with Me,

1160
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:35,400
Speaker 2: song in the Breeze, Knoxville Girl, you know, green Grass

1161
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:38,479
Speaker 2: and high Tides, there Goes Another love song. Those were

1162
01:33:38,560 --> 01:33:43,519
Speaker 2: songs that cast a musical personality and a large part

1163
01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:47,200
Speaker 2: of that came from me, and a large part of

1164
01:33:47,240 --> 01:33:51,479
Speaker 2: my relationship with Hue was at the heart of it,

1165
01:33:51,680 --> 01:33:55,160
Speaker 2: and his relationship as a guitar player with Billy. But

1166
01:33:55,240 --> 01:33:57,920
Speaker 2: when I sat down and played my country stuff, Hwey

1167
01:33:58,040 --> 01:34:01,720
Speaker 2: sat down went and it was like he knew what

1168
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:05,800
Speaker 2: I was saying, and he and I could be in

1169
01:34:05,840 --> 01:34:08,479
Speaker 2: a room with two guitars and people will go, yeah,

1170
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:12,160
Speaker 2: that's great. And that's where it was, and that's how

1171
01:34:12,160 --> 01:34:15,479
Speaker 2: we got where we were going because we were one

1172
01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:20,800
Speaker 2: plus one equals three. The band was just really good.

1173
01:34:20,880 --> 01:34:24,559
Speaker 2: We got lucky putting the people together. Hue and I

1174
01:34:24,680 --> 01:34:28,240
Speaker 2: sang good together. Billy came into the band, and suddenly

1175
01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:32,560
Speaker 2: we had this guy that could sing like Randy Meisner

1176
01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:37,840
Speaker 2: and there was the three part harmony. It was intact,

1177
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:42,400
Speaker 2: and Frank was a good singer, but he didn't participate

1178
01:34:42,439 --> 01:34:45,360
Speaker 2: in the vocal part of the band that much. But

1179
01:34:45,439 --> 01:34:47,519
Speaker 2: it was all just luck, and it was all just

1180
01:34:47,880 --> 01:34:50,640
Speaker 2: being able to see it and make that.

1181
01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:58,320
Speaker 1: Okay. When the Outlaws start to become successful, you get

1182
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:02,559
Speaker 1: married and start having children. Was there anything in your

1183
01:35:02,560 --> 01:35:06,040
Speaker 1: mind saying, man, this is a whole different road. Is

1184
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:09,840
Speaker 1: this going to impact my career, I'm going to have responsibilities?

1185
01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:11,080
Speaker 1: What was going through your head?

1186
01:35:13,280 --> 01:35:19,320
Speaker 2: I never I never planned any of that. You know.

1187
01:35:20,160 --> 01:35:28,800
Speaker 2: I married a girl who was really supportive of me

1188
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:35,120
Speaker 2: and good to me and who I was really good

1189
01:35:35,160 --> 01:35:40,559
Speaker 2: friends with. And our decision to have a family wasn't

1190
01:35:41,439 --> 01:35:44,320
Speaker 2: We didn't sit down and say you want to start

1191
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:49,240
Speaker 2: a family. No, it kind of came like, hey, i'm pregnant.

1192
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:54,599
Speaker 2: Oh that's great, great, let's have a kid. What you know, Uh, yeah,

1193
01:35:54,640 --> 01:36:01,040
Speaker 2: I'm good. Hey i'm pregnant again. Well let's have another one.

1194
01:36:01,320 --> 01:36:04,960
Speaker 2: You know. But I don't think it had anything that

1195
01:36:05,160 --> 01:36:08,320
Speaker 2: I love kids. I'm seventy six, I have a four

1196
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:11,080
Speaker 2: year old is right downstairs. When I get done with

1197
01:36:11,080 --> 01:36:13,759
Speaker 2: this interview, I'm gonna go down here. He's gonna wear

1198
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:17,280
Speaker 2: me out. But that's just how I am. I I

1199
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:24,200
Speaker 2: love that about my life. Some people don't have children.

1200
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:34,360
Speaker 2: You know, my career has been very difficult to my family.

1201
01:36:36,240 --> 01:36:38,760
Speaker 2: And I was I quoted you a lyric from a song.

1202
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:41,800
Speaker 2: I was going to quote you a lyric from another song.

1203
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:45,960
Speaker 2: The fast life and the music it's just a grim

1204
01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:49,519
Speaker 2: disguise for the heartache and the fear of growing old

1205
01:36:50,080 --> 01:36:52,200
Speaker 2: without the ones that mean the most. It makes you

1206
01:36:52,280 --> 01:36:55,880
Speaker 2: realize that you are the one that's left out in

1207
01:36:55,920 --> 01:37:01,200
Speaker 2: the cold. You chase the dream are and you try

1208
01:37:01,240 --> 01:37:05,439
Speaker 2: and become somebody so hard that you wake up one

1209
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:09,840
Speaker 2: day and your marriage is not happening, and your kids

1210
01:37:09,880 --> 01:37:13,000
Speaker 2: don't know. You know, I never let that happen. But

1211
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:18,000
Speaker 2: I know that I missed a lot, and I know

1212
01:37:18,160 --> 01:37:22,160
Speaker 2: it was damaging to my children. It was damaging to

1213
01:37:22,280 --> 01:37:30,120
Speaker 2: my marriage. And being privileged in a certain sort of

1214
01:37:30,120 --> 01:37:34,719
Speaker 2: way makes it easy to make bad decisions.

1215
01:37:36,520 --> 01:37:39,000
Speaker 1: You had a challenged child you write about in the

1216
01:37:39,040 --> 01:37:39,880
Speaker 1: book How'd you cope with it?

1217
01:37:39,920 --> 01:37:47,439
Speaker 2: Well, she was not death but hearing impaired, and it's

1218
01:37:47,479 --> 01:37:51,080
Speaker 2: an invisible handicap and it doesn't show itself like a

1219
01:37:52,280 --> 01:37:56,040
Speaker 2: kid in a wheelchair or a kid with a cane

1220
01:37:56,160 --> 01:38:00,600
Speaker 2: that can't see. It's a very invisible hand cat, but

1221
01:38:00,640 --> 01:38:05,160
Speaker 2: it's a very painful one because when you're deaf, you

1222
01:38:05,560 --> 01:38:11,360
Speaker 2: don't get the subtleties of the English language, like oh

1223
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:16,120
Speaker 2: you look great today, I do you know? You don't

1224
01:38:16,200 --> 01:38:22,280
Speaker 2: hear the inflection, you don't hear the insinuation. You take

1225
01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:26,559
Speaker 2: things more on face favor. This girl got hurt. It

1226
01:38:26,640 --> 01:38:33,439
Speaker 2: hurt me to see it happen, and I, along with

1227
01:38:33,479 --> 01:38:37,679
Speaker 2: her mom and her sister, you know, tried real hard

1228
01:38:37,720 --> 01:38:43,400
Speaker 2: to be there for her. And I wrote a song

1229
01:38:43,479 --> 01:38:47,160
Speaker 2: for her on my I'm trying to think of it.

1230
01:38:48,479 --> 01:38:51,000
Speaker 2: I don't know which record is on, but I wrote

1231
01:38:51,000 --> 01:38:56,840
Speaker 2: a song called Circle of Silence, and I remember going

1232
01:38:56,840 --> 01:39:01,000
Speaker 2: out into the studio to sing the lead vocal and

1233
01:39:01,160 --> 01:39:04,920
Speaker 2: breaking down in the vocal booth because it was such

1234
01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:10,679
Speaker 2: an emotional thing and I was able to spit it out.

1235
01:39:10,720 --> 01:39:13,280
Speaker 2: But I got to the end and I said, well,

1236
01:39:13,360 --> 01:39:17,160
Speaker 2: I'll pull it together, Let's try it again. And the

1237
01:39:17,200 --> 01:39:20,400
Speaker 2: guy that was produced in the records said, no, I

1238
01:39:20,400 --> 01:39:22,880
Speaker 2: think we want to keep that. I think we want

1239
01:39:22,920 --> 01:39:26,800
Speaker 2: to keep that. He heard what I was doing, he

1240
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:29,920
Speaker 2: felt what I was feeling, and he decided to go

1241
01:39:30,080 --> 01:39:32,360
Speaker 2: with what I and I think it was a great

1242
01:39:32,400 --> 01:39:36,240
Speaker 2: decision at the moment. In the moment, I thought, well,

1243
01:39:36,400 --> 01:39:39,000
Speaker 2: let me have another No, I don't think we need

1244
01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:43,120
Speaker 2: to do that again. So there was that part of

1245
01:39:43,320 --> 01:39:51,000
Speaker 2: my role as a parent that was very demanding and

1246
01:39:51,600 --> 01:39:55,680
Speaker 2: took a lot of empathy and a lot of commitment

1247
01:39:55,760 --> 01:39:59,519
Speaker 2: to this person who she and I are tight. You know,

1248
01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:04,439
Speaker 2: we're we're close. I'm close with all my children. But

1249
01:40:04,560 --> 01:40:09,439
Speaker 2: I did miss a lot by trying to, you know,

1250
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:14,320
Speaker 2: go on a road being an entertainer. Right. One of

1251
01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:17,400
Speaker 2: the reasons I think I want out now is that

1252
01:40:17,479 --> 01:40:19,240
Speaker 2: because I have a four year old and a ten

1253
01:40:19,280 --> 01:40:21,920
Speaker 2: year old, you don't want to just keep doing the

1254
01:40:21,960 --> 01:40:25,960
Speaker 2: same thing over and over and expect different results. I mean,

1255
01:40:25,960 --> 01:40:28,599
Speaker 2: this is an opportunity for me in the late stage

1256
01:40:28,600 --> 01:40:31,519
Speaker 2: of my life. How many years do I have left? Ten?

1257
01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:36,360
Speaker 2: I don't know how old you are, but we're not

1258
01:40:36,400 --> 01:40:37,280
Speaker 2: going to live forever.

1259
01:40:38,439 --> 01:40:41,160
Speaker 1: Oh most people our age. I'm a little younger than you,

1260
01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:43,839
Speaker 1: but I'm in my seventies too, And it's like people

1261
01:40:44,320 --> 01:40:46,040
Speaker 1: you know are not aware. Oh yeah, they think you'll

1262
01:40:46,080 --> 01:40:49,040
Speaker 1: live forever. Nobody's going to live forever, and I want

1263
01:40:49,040 --> 01:40:50,880
Speaker 1: to see it coming. It's like I want to prepare

1264
01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:52,519
Speaker 1: and do the right things a bit of being supported.

1265
01:40:52,560 --> 01:40:56,280
Speaker 2: And it's not just monetary, it's emotional. Like my four

1266
01:40:56,360 --> 01:41:02,400
Speaker 2: year old started school this year. He's in pre kindergarten.

1267
01:41:04,200 --> 01:41:08,320
Speaker 2: This morning, my wife and I drove the kids to

1268
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:12,519
Speaker 2: school and we pull up and my ten year old

1269
01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:17,880
Speaker 2: jumps out and he's gone like the wind. Four year

1270
01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:22,960
Speaker 2: old it's out, starts walking down the sidewalk in his

1271
01:41:24,280 --> 01:41:27,040
Speaker 2: There's this lady that helps the kids that you get

1272
01:41:27,080 --> 01:41:29,759
Speaker 2: to the class and she comes out and she holds

1273
01:41:29,760 --> 01:41:32,880
Speaker 2: his hand and he's walking away with a backpack on,

1274
01:41:34,439 --> 01:41:37,559
Speaker 2: and he looks over his right looks over his right shoulder.

1275
01:41:44,840 --> 01:41:57,880
Speaker 2: It was hard and it was really good, and I

1276
01:41:57,920 --> 01:42:07,479
Speaker 2: want that had enough of this? I think I want that.

1277
01:42:09,640 --> 01:42:15,280
Speaker 1: Okay, you get divorced, you get remarried. After a long

1278
01:42:15,320 --> 01:42:18,240
Speaker 1: period of time, you talk about the first time we

1279
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:21,360
Speaker 1: went over having kids. Now you're older, was this a

1280
01:42:21,439 --> 01:42:23,960
Speaker 1: conscious decision? How did you decide to have kids? Lead

1281
01:42:24,040 --> 01:42:25,519
Speaker 1: in life?

1282
01:42:25,880 --> 01:42:31,200
Speaker 2: Well, if you get involved with a younger person. It

1283
01:42:31,280 --> 01:42:35,080
Speaker 2: was always my opinion that if she wanted to have children,

1284
01:42:35,320 --> 01:42:43,840
Speaker 2: was not my right or role to say no, if

1285
01:42:43,880 --> 01:42:46,080
Speaker 2: you want to have kids, let's have kids. It's the

1286
01:42:46,160 --> 01:42:49,439
Speaker 2: same way the first time around. You I'm pregnant, right,

1287
01:42:50,840 --> 01:42:55,040
Speaker 2: So it was a decision to have a family. These

1288
01:42:55,120 --> 01:42:57,640
Speaker 2: boys that I have when I'm gone, they're going to

1289
01:42:57,680 --> 01:42:59,600
Speaker 2: be really good for their mom. They're going to be

1290
01:42:59,640 --> 01:43:01,679
Speaker 2: good to and they're going to take care of her.

1291
01:43:02,560 --> 01:43:04,599
Speaker 1: How about the fact that you're not going to be here?

1292
01:43:04,960 --> 01:43:06,479
Speaker 1: Is that weigh on your mind at all?

1293
01:43:07,560 --> 01:43:10,800
Speaker 2: It does? It? Does? You know? I mean, because I'm

1294
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:13,360
Speaker 2: on the clock more so than I would have been

1295
01:43:13,400 --> 01:43:17,320
Speaker 2: if I was in my thirties. And you know, I

1296
01:43:17,360 --> 01:43:19,479
Speaker 2: had these three kids with my first wife, and I

1297
01:43:19,640 --> 01:43:27,320
Speaker 2: was deeply involved with them in their childhood, in their

1298
01:43:27,360 --> 01:43:31,120
Speaker 2: teenage years. You know, I my wife and I at

1299
01:43:31,120 --> 01:43:33,760
Speaker 2: that time went are separate ways. I said, I'm going

1300
01:43:33,800 --> 01:43:39,000
Speaker 2: to Nashville. I've got to go. Well, she wasn't quite

1301
01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:43,280
Speaker 2: so sure, you know, because there was no guarantee, and

1302
01:43:43,320 --> 01:43:48,479
Speaker 2: we just kind of went in two separate directions, and

1303
01:43:50,479 --> 01:43:53,280
Speaker 2: the kids got roughed up from it. It was not

1304
01:43:54,840 --> 01:44:02,000
Speaker 2: easy or good thing to be a party to there again.

1305
01:44:02,080 --> 01:44:05,040
Speaker 2: You know, God, dang it, I'm gonna go be this person.

1306
01:44:05,080 --> 01:44:10,400
Speaker 2: I gotta go be I gotta go road in Nashville,

1307
01:44:11,720 --> 01:44:17,360
Speaker 2: Go Go go. Meanwhile, everything at the house is changing

1308
01:44:18,720 --> 01:44:19,240
Speaker 2: without you.

1309
01:44:29,120 --> 01:44:32,479
Speaker 1: Okay, there's a period of years between ending it with

1310
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:37,120
Speaker 1: your first wife and meeting your second wife. Let's be clear,

1311
01:44:38,640 --> 01:44:42,320
Speaker 1: you're a rock and roll star today. Everybody has a camera.

1312
01:44:42,640 --> 01:44:45,360
Speaker 1: But when things were good for you, you go out on

1313
01:44:45,439 --> 01:44:48,840
Speaker 1: the road, You're drinking, you're drugging, having sex. To what

1314
01:44:48,960 --> 01:44:51,440
Speaker 1: degree did you participate in that lifestyle?

1315
01:44:53,400 --> 01:45:01,880
Speaker 2: Uh? Not to the degree that my co work did,

1316
01:45:02,960 --> 01:45:07,559
Speaker 2: especially on the drug end of the equation. I could

1317
01:45:07,640 --> 01:45:12,360
Speaker 2: see where the edge was, and I might rub up

1318
01:45:12,360 --> 01:45:14,600
Speaker 2: to it every now and then, But I was not

1319
01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:19,759
Speaker 2: interested in cocaine at all at.

1320
01:45:19,560 --> 01:45:23,080
Speaker 1: All, because you did and didn't like it, or you

1321
01:45:23,120 --> 01:45:24,479
Speaker 1: thought it was dangerous.

1322
01:45:24,960 --> 01:45:28,320
Speaker 2: I did it, and I didn't like it, and I

1323
01:45:28,400 --> 01:45:31,439
Speaker 2: knew it was dangerous and I saw what it did

1324
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:38,320
Speaker 2: to other people. Now, marijuana, I was all up in

1325
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:41,080
Speaker 2: the marijuana thing, especially right out of high school in

1326
01:45:41,080 --> 01:45:46,960
Speaker 2: the late sixties, back when it was really illegal and

1327
01:45:47,040 --> 01:45:48,720
Speaker 2: you want to smoke pot, you had to be a

1328
01:45:48,760 --> 01:45:53,760
Speaker 2: countercultural character and live outside the law, and you would

1329
01:45:53,800 --> 01:45:57,599
Speaker 2: get hurt legally by it if you got caught. And

1330
01:45:57,640 --> 01:46:07,519
Speaker 2: I had my run ends that LSD crazy. Yeah, let's

1331
01:46:08,040 --> 01:46:11,920
Speaker 2: that was great. Let's do that again. A little bit

1332
01:46:11,960 --> 01:46:13,800
Speaker 2: of that went a long way. But I'm not saying

1333
01:46:13,840 --> 01:46:17,840
Speaker 2: I didn't use LSD on a fairly regular basis for

1334
01:46:17,880 --> 01:46:20,040
Speaker 2: a while, but I mean, at one point it was like, Okay,

1335
01:46:20,080 --> 01:46:25,519
Speaker 2: I'm good, but with a cocaine made me nervous, made

1336
01:46:25,560 --> 01:46:29,080
Speaker 2: me jump in. Just the whole thing didn't work for me,

1337
01:46:29,240 --> 01:46:38,120
Speaker 2: And so it was significantly harmful to my coworkers in

1338
01:46:38,200 --> 01:46:43,240
Speaker 2: ways that I'm not at liberty to discuss. But I

1339
01:46:43,280 --> 01:46:45,840
Speaker 2: saw what it was, and I knew I didn't want

1340
01:46:45,880 --> 01:46:49,880
Speaker 2: to mess with it, not go down that road, no way.

1341
01:46:51,760 --> 01:46:57,400
Speaker 2: But you know the advantages of being a celebrity and

1342
01:46:57,520 --> 01:47:03,320
Speaker 2: people wanting to, you know, be close to that because

1343
01:47:03,360 --> 01:47:07,519
Speaker 2: it makes them feel good, right, I mean, hey, I'm

1344
01:47:07,720 --> 01:47:11,920
Speaker 2: hanging around with the band. I mean, I'm friends with

1345
01:47:12,000 --> 01:47:14,720
Speaker 2: the band. You can go watch them on stage, but

1346
01:47:14,800 --> 01:47:18,120
Speaker 2: I'm back here hanging out. You know, we're like friends.

1347
01:47:19,280 --> 01:47:33,519
Speaker 2: M hm m hmmm. So there's that, and that was harmful.

1348
01:47:38,080 --> 01:47:43,439
Speaker 2: Where does the problem start in the fun stop? It's

1349
01:47:43,479 --> 01:47:49,679
Speaker 2: hard to really find the line, but it's in there. Oh, well,

1350
01:47:49,720 --> 01:47:52,920
Speaker 2: you're a single, now you're single. Now you can do whatever.

1351
01:47:52,920 --> 01:47:57,040
Speaker 2: You're well, you're married, what are you doing? You're married? Man,

1352
01:47:57,080 --> 01:48:03,760
Speaker 2: what do you do? Really? Yeah, wait a minute, are

1353
01:48:03,760 --> 01:48:17,080
Speaker 2: you serious? And then there's that compromise, and I internalize

1354
01:48:17,080 --> 01:48:22,880
Speaker 2: it as integrity, but there's a compromise and what seemed

1355
01:48:22,920 --> 01:48:26,800
Speaker 2: to pass is recreational fun and games at one point

1356
01:48:26,880 --> 01:48:34,639
Speaker 2: became or could become, or often did become problematic and

1357
01:48:35,280 --> 01:48:42,960
Speaker 2: structural in its nature, and it just didn't work. At

1358
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:46,639
Speaker 2: one point didn't work, I mean, could be getting older,

1359
01:48:46,880 --> 01:48:50,800
Speaker 2: could be growing up and seeing things for what it was.

1360
01:48:52,640 --> 01:48:54,760
Speaker 2: It just kind of goes back to those days when

1361
01:48:54,760 --> 01:48:57,080
Speaker 2: you're trying so hard to be somebody and you're working

1362
01:48:57,200 --> 01:49:00,519
Speaker 2: so hard, you're spending so much time away from home,

1363
01:49:00,680 --> 01:49:08,479
Speaker 2: and you know, you're just playing your guitar and shaking

1364
01:49:08,520 --> 01:49:13,280
Speaker 2: your ass and trying to, you know, make people like

1365
01:49:13,360 --> 01:49:19,519
Speaker 2: you if you're a nice looking guy, you know, and

1366
01:49:19,560 --> 01:49:26,080
Speaker 2: you had, you know, things that were part of it.

1367
01:49:26,520 --> 01:49:30,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think it's a secret that the

1368
01:49:30,120 --> 01:49:33,600
Speaker 2: music business is centered in a very sexual sort of

1369
01:49:38,280 --> 01:49:45,320
Speaker 2: property and it's it's all about that. And same with film.

1370
01:49:47,040 --> 01:49:52,439
Speaker 2: So you know how many Tom Waits's are there, you know,

1371
01:49:52,600 --> 01:49:57,000
Speaker 2: to where you're just completely disconnected from anything that looks

1372
01:49:57,080 --> 01:50:03,959
Speaker 2: I mean Lindsey Buckingham, for God's sakes, or Nick don Felder,

1373
01:50:04,080 --> 01:50:07,960
Speaker 2: I mean name it Elvis compressedly, you know, I mean

1374
01:50:08,000 --> 01:50:11,160
Speaker 2: it starts there, goes on and on and on indefinitely,

1375
01:50:11,200 --> 01:50:14,640
Speaker 2: and that's part of what it was or is, and

1376
01:50:14,720 --> 01:50:19,720
Speaker 2: you have to navigate that. You have to, you know,

1377
01:50:21,720 --> 01:50:28,400
Speaker 2: try and manage yourself in a thoughtful and in a

1378
01:50:29,040 --> 01:50:34,080
Speaker 2: wise way, because there's so many opportunities to wander off

1379
01:50:34,120 --> 01:50:38,719
Speaker 2: the path and become lost.

1380
01:50:41,720 --> 01:50:44,360
Speaker 1: Why do you believe you were so driven to be

1381
01:50:44,479 --> 01:50:46,360
Speaker 1: successful as a recording artist.

1382
01:50:46,760 --> 01:50:52,639
Speaker 2: Just ambitious by nature, my sister's me, our family, our

1383
01:50:52,680 --> 01:51:02,759
Speaker 2: family's business, just ambitious, German, hardworking. And then my mom

1384
01:51:03,160 --> 01:51:09,400
Speaker 2: and her English upbringing and parents and background, and the heart,

1385
01:51:11,200 --> 01:51:14,479
Speaker 2: the heart and the mind, the heart and the feeling

1386
01:51:15,400 --> 01:51:20,320
Speaker 2: and the mind just will not accept the feet of failure.

1387
01:51:20,360 --> 01:51:23,479
Speaker 2: It just won't take it. It can't. There's no way

1388
01:51:23,520 --> 01:51:24,200
Speaker 2: that can happen.

1389
01:51:26,640 --> 01:51:29,280
Speaker 1: You mentioned in the book. You know, you're growing up

1390
01:51:29,520 --> 01:51:34,000
Speaker 1: in northern New York, relatively speaking, New York's a big

1391
01:51:34,040 --> 01:51:37,240
Speaker 1: state and the mountains of New York. Father has a farm,

1392
01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:42,439
Speaker 1: parents split up to move to the Florida. What did

1393
01:51:42,479 --> 01:51:47,960
Speaker 1: your parents say about your career You weren't instantly successful.

1394
01:51:48,040 --> 01:51:51,479
Speaker 1: Were they supportive, were they dismissive? How did they feel

1395
01:51:51,479 --> 01:51:52,599
Speaker 1: as the years played out?

1396
01:51:53,240 --> 01:51:57,160
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's typical the difference between your mother

1397
01:51:57,240 --> 01:52:03,160
Speaker 2: and father. My mother was supportive. She was supportive, like nurturing.

1398
01:52:08,800 --> 01:52:13,920
Speaker 2: I got arrested one time for the possession of marijuana.

1399
01:52:14,880 --> 01:52:19,320
Speaker 2: Wasn't mine. I just was with a guy who and

1400
01:52:19,560 --> 01:52:23,840
Speaker 2: everybody went to jail and I called my mom and

1401
01:52:23,880 --> 01:52:26,360
Speaker 2: I said, Mom, I'm in jail and I need you

1402
01:52:26,400 --> 01:52:28,240
Speaker 2: to help me get out of jail. It's the bond

1403
01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:32,080
Speaker 2: is going to be said at this And before she

1404
01:52:32,240 --> 01:52:37,479
Speaker 2: came down to the bail bondsman, she took whatever I

1405
01:52:37,479 --> 01:52:39,439
Speaker 2: had in the way in marijuana at the house of flux.

1406
01:52:43,200 --> 01:52:46,439
Speaker 2: So my mother, in her own way, you know, was

1407
01:52:46,479 --> 01:52:50,720
Speaker 2: looking out for me and being supportive and being, you know,

1408
01:52:51,040 --> 01:52:56,599
Speaker 2: part of my solution. Not now my dad, my dad said.

1409
01:52:56,600 --> 01:53:03,679
Speaker 2: My relationship was significantly different. You know. I love my dad,

1410
01:53:04,360 --> 01:53:11,479
Speaker 2: but my dad was like skeptical. And one of the

1411
01:53:11,760 --> 01:53:16,920
Speaker 2: famous quotes my father used to say to me was,

1412
01:53:17,960 --> 01:53:19,479
Speaker 2: what are you doing up there in a room with

1413
01:53:19,520 --> 01:53:23,240
Speaker 2: that guitar plunk a plunkin around up there, come down

1414
01:53:23,280 --> 01:53:25,320
Speaker 2: here and play me a song? Can you play me

1415
01:53:25,360 --> 01:53:32,000
Speaker 2: a song? And it wasn't that many years later. I

1416
01:53:32,160 --> 01:53:35,240
Speaker 2: was standing in front of one hundred thousand people on

1417
01:53:35,360 --> 01:53:42,040
Speaker 2: stage with the Outlaws at the unveiling of our first

1418
01:53:42,080 --> 01:53:44,599
Speaker 2: album in New York. And he drove down with his

1419
01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:49,400
Speaker 2: wife and my half sisters and brothers, and he watched

1420
01:53:49,439 --> 01:53:53,400
Speaker 2: his son get a standing ovation from one hundred thousand people,

1421
01:53:53,439 --> 01:53:59,320
Speaker 2: and he was like, that's my son, that one over there,

1422
01:53:59,520 --> 01:54:03,760
Speaker 2: that's my So dad went from being, you know, a

1423
01:54:03,840 --> 01:54:08,840
Speaker 2: doubter to being my biggest supporter. It's too I mean,

1424
01:54:08,880 --> 01:54:12,080
Speaker 2: it's the way it goes. And I mean, who can

1425
01:54:12,120 --> 01:54:16,760
Speaker 2: blame him? You know, because they never asked me to

1426
01:54:16,840 --> 01:54:20,599
Speaker 2: help him with a farm, So what the hell? I

1427
01:54:20,640 --> 01:54:24,360
Speaker 2: thought I'd start my own business.

1428
01:54:25,160 --> 01:54:27,639
Speaker 1: Now. You also make a big point in the book

1429
01:54:28,400 --> 01:54:31,800
Speaker 1: about growing sweet corn. I grew up in the Northeast,

1430
01:54:31,920 --> 01:54:34,880
Speaker 1: I know what sweet corn is. And then having a

1431
01:54:34,960 --> 01:54:38,560
Speaker 1: farm on your property now, so what can you tell

1432
01:54:38,640 --> 01:54:41,240
Speaker 1: us about sweet corn? And how extensive farm do you

1433
01:54:41,280 --> 01:54:41,800
Speaker 1: actually have?

1434
01:54:42,120 --> 01:54:51,160
Speaker 2: Nothing like the failt farm. Nothing. This is all fun, big,

1435
01:54:51,240 --> 01:54:56,400
Speaker 2: but it's fun. Our farm in New York, we would

1436
01:54:56,400 --> 01:55:01,320
Speaker 2: do five tractor trailers a day, a day and a day.

1437
01:55:01,840 --> 01:55:04,680
Speaker 2: I mean, we were sending a lot of corn up

1438
01:55:04,720 --> 01:55:08,600
Speaker 2: and down the Eastern Seaboard, a MP Grand Union, all

1439
01:55:08,680 --> 01:55:12,440
Speaker 2: the big chains were buying our corn. We had a salesman.

1440
01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:15,560
Speaker 2: It was a big business. My grandfather made a lot

1441
01:55:15,600 --> 01:55:22,720
Speaker 2: of his land was worth a lot of money. I

1442
01:55:22,880 --> 01:55:28,480
Speaker 2: was so proud to be My granddad was Henry Paul.

1443
01:55:28,560 --> 01:55:32,200
Speaker 2: My dad was Henry Paul. I was Henry Paul. This

1444
01:55:32,400 --> 01:55:35,880
Speaker 2: was our farm, this is our land. That business kind

1445
01:55:35,920 --> 01:55:42,320
Speaker 2: of was the was the image of that area. And

1446
01:55:42,920 --> 01:55:44,800
Speaker 2: you know, they'd have Hurley, New York and they'd have

1447
01:55:44,840 --> 01:55:49,040
Speaker 2: an Ork corn and we were the first family growing it.

1448
01:55:49,160 --> 01:55:52,480
Speaker 2: And there were two other families growing at it on

1449
01:55:52,560 --> 01:55:55,640
Speaker 2: the level that we did. One was the Davenports, one

1450
01:55:55,720 --> 01:55:58,320
Speaker 2: was the Gills. And the Gills and the Davenports and

1451
01:55:58,360 --> 01:56:03,960
Speaker 2: the Paul family own the Hurly Flats and grew corn

1452
01:56:04,040 --> 01:56:10,200
Speaker 2: on it. And that made me feel really good. Like

1453
01:56:10,440 --> 01:56:14,760
Speaker 2: ego wise, I was someone I didn't go running around,

1454
01:56:14,760 --> 01:56:16,520
Speaker 2: you know, making a deal of it. But I mean,

1455
01:56:16,600 --> 01:56:20,760
Speaker 2: in my heart, I felt like I was a part

1456
01:56:20,800 --> 01:56:26,000
Speaker 2: of something good. You can say the exact same thing

1457
01:56:26,080 --> 01:56:29,800
Speaker 2: for the Outlaws and for black Hawks and every repulpment

1458
01:56:30,280 --> 01:56:36,320
Speaker 2: exact same thing, only this was my business. You had

1459
01:56:36,360 --> 01:56:40,160
Speaker 2: your farm. I had my band. It has my name

1460
01:56:40,200 --> 01:56:42,840
Speaker 2: on it, just like your bag has our name on

1461
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:46,680
Speaker 2: the bag of corn. But this was my way of

1462
01:56:46,720 --> 01:56:49,960
Speaker 2: creating my own because I didn't get invited to run

1463
01:56:50,000 --> 01:56:52,880
Speaker 2: the farm or take it over. I started my own

1464
01:56:52,920 --> 01:56:57,400
Speaker 2: business and it satisfied an artistic inclination of mine, and

1465
01:56:57,440 --> 01:57:01,720
Speaker 2: I got to do that, and then I found success

1466
01:57:01,800 --> 01:57:07,879
Speaker 2: at it, and I got to be my own person.

1467
01:57:08,240 --> 01:57:13,160
Speaker 2: Who wasn't, you know, coming in on the hills of

1468
01:57:13,280 --> 01:57:16,160
Speaker 2: someone else's work. I did it on my own.

1469
01:57:16,960 --> 01:57:17,840
Speaker 1: Whatever happened to.

1470
01:57:17,840 --> 01:57:27,880
Speaker 2: The farm, my dad, my granddad who started it, passed away.

1471
01:57:28,680 --> 01:57:32,200
Speaker 2: My dad was a faithful son, worked hard for his father.

1472
01:57:34,320 --> 01:57:36,760
Speaker 2: But by the time my granddad passed away, my dad

1473
01:57:36,880 --> 01:57:40,840
Speaker 2: was over it. He built a house in Florida. He

1474
01:57:40,880 --> 01:57:43,880
Speaker 2: and his wife would go in and stay. Eventually he

1475
01:57:44,040 --> 01:57:50,400
Speaker 2: sold it, you know, eventually it was sold. The Warren

1476
01:57:50,480 --> 01:57:55,560
Speaker 2: Buffett family came in and bought a lot of what

1477
01:57:55,720 --> 01:58:00,560
Speaker 2: we had, along with the farm next door, and they,

1478
01:58:00,920 --> 01:58:06,839
Speaker 2: to their credit, turned it into a new Ordanic model

1479
01:58:08,280 --> 01:58:11,880
Speaker 2: and the sweetcorn business from where we came from. It's gone.

1480
01:58:11,960 --> 01:58:16,240
Speaker 2: It's all gone. Nobody grows. One of the large segments

1481
01:58:16,280 --> 01:58:20,920
Speaker 2: of our farm. Someone bought their growing marijuana on it,

1482
01:58:21,000 --> 01:58:26,760
Speaker 2: like THC marijuana, medical marijuana. They're doing very well. The

1483
01:58:26,800 --> 01:58:29,800
Speaker 2: Buffett family bought the larger part of the farm and

1484
01:58:29,840 --> 01:58:33,879
Speaker 2: with a huge one next door, they're they're growing organic

1485
01:58:33,960 --> 01:58:37,440
Speaker 2: produce and doing probably well at it. But it just

1486
01:58:37,560 --> 01:58:38,560
Speaker 2: changed that way.

1487
01:58:40,200 --> 01:58:43,480
Speaker 1: But the land was very valuable. Did any of the

1488
01:58:43,560 --> 01:58:47,760
Speaker 1: revenue from that trickle down to the next generation in you.

1489
01:58:49,120 --> 01:58:51,880
Speaker 2: Did I have a huge inheritance? Well?

1490
01:58:51,920 --> 01:58:54,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, some people have no inheritance, but you're

1491
01:58:54,800 --> 01:58:57,000
Speaker 1: talking about your parents had a very successful business.

1492
01:58:57,280 --> 01:59:00,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, I think it's safe to say that

1493
01:59:00,240 --> 01:59:04,480
Speaker 2: there was, you know, there's something in it for all

1494
01:59:04,520 --> 01:59:07,760
Speaker 2: of us there. You know, there were three kids from

1495
01:59:07,760 --> 01:59:10,080
Speaker 2: my dad's first marriage and three kids from the dad

1496
01:59:10,200 --> 01:59:13,840
Speaker 2: second marriage. So it wasn't like somebody got everything, but

1497
01:59:13,960 --> 01:59:15,760
Speaker 2: you know, there was enough to go around, and there

1498
01:59:15,880 --> 01:59:26,160
Speaker 2: was there was, you know, a reward, so to speak.

1499
01:59:27,360 --> 01:59:32,800
Speaker 2: I took my wife and my kids this past March.

1500
01:59:34,360 --> 01:59:38,440
Speaker 2: We flew into New York. I was actually working. I

1501
01:59:38,480 --> 01:59:40,400
Speaker 2: took the train in New York. They flew to New York.

1502
01:59:40,680 --> 01:59:42,720
Speaker 2: We spent like three or four days in the city.

1503
01:59:43,720 --> 01:59:46,320
Speaker 2: This is going to get back to what you're talking about.

1504
01:59:46,360 --> 01:59:50,120
Speaker 2: But then I said, well, we were planned a ski

1505
01:59:50,200 --> 01:59:54,160
Speaker 2: trip in the Catskills where I learned to ski. We

1506
01:59:54,200 --> 01:59:56,160
Speaker 2: were going to go to bel Air Mountain and we're

1507
01:59:56,160 --> 01:59:59,400
Speaker 2: going to skip and so we drove. I rented a car,

1508
01:59:59,520 --> 02:00:03,880
Speaker 2: We drove up, and we had dinner with my sister,

1509
02:00:04,920 --> 02:00:07,800
Speaker 2: and the next morning we drove into Hurley and I

1510
02:00:07,920 --> 02:00:11,480
Speaker 2: showed him where the farm was. There's this old dutch

1511
02:00:11,720 --> 02:00:15,160
Speaker 2: stone home we lived in, built in seventeen twenty, and

1512
02:00:15,280 --> 02:00:20,880
Speaker 2: the barns across the street was open, huge open fields.

1513
02:00:21,600 --> 02:00:25,200
Speaker 2: There is absolutely no sign that we were ever there.

1514
02:00:26,920 --> 02:00:30,560
Speaker 2: And it was very, very difficult for me. My grandfather,

1515
02:00:30,640 --> 02:00:33,440
Speaker 2: who was the greatest rock star in my mind I've

1516
02:00:33,520 --> 02:00:37,640
Speaker 2: ever known, and my dad, who was a hard working, faithful,

1517
02:00:38,920 --> 02:00:46,120
Speaker 2: smart guy over there. At least I have a book,

1518
02:00:47,080 --> 02:00:49,920
Speaker 2: at least I have a record, at least I have

1519
02:00:50,080 --> 02:00:55,520
Speaker 2: this body of work. For whatever it means, that tells

1520
02:00:56,520 --> 02:01:01,480
Speaker 2: reminds people that I was here. He didn't become filthy

1521
02:01:01,600 --> 02:01:06,720
Speaker 2: rich or have medical insurance all the time. But I

1522
02:01:06,760 --> 02:01:10,480
Speaker 2: do have something to show for my life, and I'm

1523
02:01:10,520 --> 02:01:15,760
Speaker 2: proud of that. I guess I'm proud of that. I'm

1524
02:01:15,760 --> 02:01:17,480
Speaker 2: proud of the fact that I was able to do

1525
02:01:17,520 --> 02:01:20,640
Speaker 2: what I dreamt and set out to do. I actually

1526
02:01:20,640 --> 02:01:21,560
Speaker 2: got to do it.

1527
02:01:23,760 --> 02:01:25,360
Speaker 1: So why the book, why now?

1528
02:01:28,080 --> 02:01:32,720
Speaker 2: Well? I thought it was late enough in the story

1529
02:01:32,920 --> 02:01:38,760
Speaker 2: of the game, of the of the story to tell

1530
02:01:38,840 --> 02:01:44,320
Speaker 2: it to give people who just loved the band and

1531
02:01:44,360 --> 02:01:46,480
Speaker 2: came and bought a ticket and went to the Spectrum

1532
02:01:46,480 --> 02:01:50,840
Speaker 2: and drank whiskey and hoot and dollar, just so they

1533
02:01:50,960 --> 02:01:56,400
Speaker 2: know what happened. What it was like to share a

1534
02:01:56,440 --> 02:01:58,680
Speaker 2: bottle of Jack Daniels in the front lounge of my

1535
02:01:58,760 --> 02:02:04,760
Speaker 2: bus would run him in. What it was like to

1536
02:02:04,800 --> 02:02:08,680
Speaker 2: be invited on stage by Dicky Betts and to play Southbound.

1537
02:02:10,440 --> 02:02:13,480
Speaker 2: What it was like night after night with the Marshall

1538
02:02:13,520 --> 02:02:17,560
Speaker 2: Tucker Band of the Charlie Daniels Band. What it was

1539
02:02:17,720 --> 02:02:22,560
Speaker 2: like to cohabitate with these cohabitat habitat with these people

1540
02:02:23,160 --> 02:02:26,640
Speaker 2: and be a part of their lives to where we

1541
02:02:26,640 --> 02:02:30,320
Speaker 2: were knew one another on a first name basis. What

1542
02:02:30,360 --> 02:02:35,440
Speaker 2: it was like to be in that. Because most of

1543
02:02:35,480 --> 02:02:39,640
Speaker 2: the people that I grew up with in that are gone,

1544
02:02:39,920 --> 02:02:42,960
Speaker 2: and there are maybe a few people around that can

1545
02:02:43,280 --> 02:02:47,320
Speaker 2: still tell the story, I have a great memory, and I,

1546
02:02:47,680 --> 02:02:51,520
Speaker 2: you know, wrote this book with Gary Hirtz, who was

1547
02:02:51,600 --> 02:02:56,320
Speaker 2: a really smart guy, and I gave. We had a

1548
02:02:56,360 --> 02:03:03,120
Speaker 2: great collaboration of how it was, how it worked, what happened,

1549
02:03:03,240 --> 02:03:07,960
Speaker 2: how it felt. The Rolling Stones, Mick Jagger and Keith

1550
02:03:08,080 --> 02:03:12,720
Speaker 2: Richards coming into our dressing room. I love your ben

1551
02:03:12,840 --> 02:03:15,240
Speaker 2: you know, it's like, Hey, they liked our band. That's great.

1552
02:03:15,320 --> 02:03:21,040
Speaker 2: Thanks Matt. We like yours too. You know it's not

1553
02:03:21,160 --> 02:03:24,080
Speaker 2: Paul McCartney and John Lennon or George Harrison or Ringo

1554
02:03:24,120 --> 02:03:25,480
Speaker 2: Starbus not bad.

1555
02:03:27,320 --> 02:03:32,720
Speaker 1: Okay, Henry. A couple of things. One I can just

1556
02:03:32,760 --> 02:03:36,040
Speaker 1: tell by talking to you that you are a smart guy. Two,

1557
02:03:36,360 --> 02:03:39,760
Speaker 1: you're obviously a student of the game and no music

1558
02:03:39,920 --> 02:03:43,000
Speaker 1: history just by your references. In any event, it's been

1559
02:03:43,040 --> 02:03:45,960
Speaker 1: a great pleasure talking to you. I want you to

1560
02:03:46,040 --> 02:03:49,480
Speaker 1: have that. Paie, have a good birthday. Thanks for talking

1561
02:03:49,480 --> 02:03:55,720
Speaker 1: to my audience. Thanks till next time. This is Bob

1562
02:03:55,840 --> 02:03:56,400
Speaker 1: leftsas

1563
02:04:18,120 --> 02:04:18,240
Speaker 2: Sh