WEBVTT - The Leshii 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:08.280 It was near sunset when the old man looked up 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:11.479 from his labors and saw the stranger approaching from the west, 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.560 And though his eyes were weaker than they once were, 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.880 he soon saw that the stranger carried himself like a soldier, 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:20.799 though he bore no weapon that could be seen, and 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.599 so the old man continued scraping his hides till the 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:28.319 stranger approached close enough to greet him. Hello, grandfather, Oh, 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.400 please don't let me disturb your labor. I just wanted 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.800 to ask, is this the way to the greenwood path? Hey? 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:37.080 It is, But what business have you in the woods? 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:40.360 Not the woods, grandfather, the lands on the other side. 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:42.760 You see, I'm returned from the war and I seek 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:45.959 my family's farm. It's been five long years, and I'm 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:48.560 eager to aid them with the harvest. There's no path 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:51.040 through the green forest, at least none blazed by the 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:54.800 likes of you or me game trails. Then, well, so happens. 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.600 I'm a gifted tracker and can make my own way, 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:00.520 your own way. If there are any land marks, you 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:02.960 might a lurt me too, well, I'd be most gracious. 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:05.679 But the old man didn't answer right away. He looked 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:09.600 out to the woods, and instead motioned back towards his hut, 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:12.399 where the old woman would have supper ready soon enough. 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:15.559 Tell you what stay with us tonight, and I'll tell 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:20.800 you of the forest. What the young soldier lacked in 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.600 caution he made up for in politeness. When he had 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.000 finished his bowl of rabbit stew, he thanked the old 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.800 man and woman a half dozen times. He cleaned the 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.640 bowls and scrubbed the pot. He split more wood for 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.280 the fire, and even produced a bottle of spirits, which 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.000 he shared with the old man. So tell me of 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.200 the forest, grandfather. You'll not find your own way through 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.959 the green forest, not by moonlight and not by day. 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.800 What little of either filters down to the tree tops. 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:50.520 The animal paths won't help you either. That only winds 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:54.160 you down into greater depths. There is neither your way, 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.320 you nor my way in the green forest. There is 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:01.560 only the law of the woods. And there is a leshy. 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.200 I don't think I'll be troubled by some forest dwarf 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.760 tis no dwarf. The less she has always been in 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:11.560 the old forest. He was there before human tribes roamed in. 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.000 He was there when strange animals still range these parts 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.239 and he is no man nor dwarf, but a shaggy 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:22.120 figure that casts no shadow, that stares straight through the 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.120 forest depths with eyes that burn like green fire. He 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:30.680 passes gigantic behind the great trees and sneaks meekly behind 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:34.280 the nearest blade of grass. Like that, he is on you. 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.000 And he who breaks the forest law is broken. Well, 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.120 then tell me the forest law so that I might 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:43.239 avoid him. The forest law is not like man's lot, 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:46.880 can't be told or written down. A very nature breaks 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.440 it as much as our acts. But you're a trapper, 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:51.800 how do you avoid the less? She's wrath. I do 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.360 not trap in the woods, but at its border, And 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:57.200 for that the less she spares me, and asked, but 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:01.359 one more thing that I worn wanderer, such as yourself. 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.560 The young soldier nodded and smiled, but the old man 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.880 could tell he was only being mannerly. He did not 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.600 believe his tale of the leshy, and would not be 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.920 swayed from his shortcut through the woods. And so the 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.280 next morning he thanked the old man and woman yet 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.720 again and departed into the green forest, no doubt, thinking 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:23.360 he'd found the makings of a path, or discovered some logic, 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.520 and the dead leaves beneath his feet. The old man 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:29.920 went back to his traps and snares near the forest edge. 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.200 He flinched when he heard the first startled scream from 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.520 the forest depths, then the howl of the leshy as 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:41.600 it wore the young soldier limb from limb. As he 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.640 walked back home, his spirit sapped by the sounds, he 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.840 caught once more the sense of something vast and shaggy, 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:53.360 walking just behind the great tree trunks, yet tiptoeing impossibly 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:57.120 behind the smallest shrub or mushroom, not like a thing 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:01.040 that moved through the woods, but like something reflected in 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:11.560 its substance. Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:20.840 of My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:24.159 your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.520 And hey it's still October. We are still going strong 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.280 with the monster stuff. And boy, I'm I'm excited about 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.279 today's episode. So, Rob, if it's okay with you, I 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:36.520 want to begin by reading reading a quote. You you 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.520 cool starting this way? Yes, let's do it. Okay. So 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:43.960 this quote is recorded in a nineteen book called Russian 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.320 Folk belief by a Penn State professor of Russian and 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:51.360 comparative literature named Linda j Ivantas. And this quote is 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:55.040 attributed to an old woman from the Kluga Province of 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:58.560 Russia describing what she believed to have witnessed during the 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:02.160 height of a forest fire. So she says, I looked 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:09.600 and bears and with them wolves, foxes, hairs, squirrels, elk, goats, 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:13.160 in a word, every sort of forest life, and each 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.720 in his own group, not mixing with the others. Thronged 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.840 out of the forest and passed me and the horses, 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.320 not even looking at us. And behind the beasts with 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:26.680 his knout over his shoulder and horn in his hands, 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:30.320 was he himself, and he was the size of a 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:35.880 bell tower. He himself tall as a bell tower, dragging 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.560 the horn and the nowt, and a nowt means a 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.200 whip or a scourge. Who is he? Who is she 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:46.360 talking about? She's talking about the leshy and awesome monster 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.760 of Slavic mythology, the demon of the woods, sort of 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:54.919 a malevolent trickster. NT. Yeah, I was, I was reading 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.640 about the leshy. I was not not really familiar with 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.880 it prior to our research. Here But according to Carol 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:05.080 Rose in her Excellent Spirits Fairies, lepre cons and Goblins 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.800 and Encyclopedia, uh, they're they're numerous different versions of the 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:11.680 spelling and and or pronunciation of the name. You see 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:15.240 it kind of like leshy but also lessovic or less 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.960 shak or less nor. Uh. So there are several different 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.400 variations on it. But just as just as the name 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.320 is kind of a morphous, uh, the you know, the 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.920 actual substance of the creature is also a fair bit 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.440 of morphous, to which one might expect with folklore, traditions 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.479 and any kind of entity that arises out of out 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:40.240 of out of old beliefs and old legends, old mythologies. Right. Yeah, 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.159 so the Leshy is not something that comes originally from 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.160 one canonical source. It it is a folk belief and 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.640 thus you're going to get lots of different versions of it. 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.200 And I think it's gonna be really fun to explore 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.920 where a lot of these different stories overlap and then 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:57.840 what the differences are. Yeah. So Rose points out that 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.200 the less She is essentially a Ussian nature spirit and 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.360 forest guardian. He's often described as a pale humanoid figure 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.960 with green eyes, green beard, and long straggly hair. He 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:14.600 wears a pair of of of boots, often made from bark, 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.400 which an he wears them on the wrong feet. It's 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.480 often said that he cast no shadow, and he's also 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:24.040 a shape shifter. And as we tried to reflect in 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.640 our opening, a bit of narration there a little or 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.160 dramatic opening. Uh. It's said that he can be as 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:31.800 tall as a great tree or as small as a 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.520 blade of grass. Likewise, he can mimic any sound in 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.240 the forest, which is a tool he might use to 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.880 lead humans astray. Sometimes, yes, and this is one of 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.840 the main threats that the less she represents that. There 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.680 again a number of stories, but the most common ways 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:51.480 that he represents a threat to human existence are in 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.880 making sounds or in laying sort of traps and tricks 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:58.160 that lead travelers off the path and get them lost 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.600 in the woods to wander hopelessly until they die in 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:04.280 the woods or die in a swamp. Or The other 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.800 thing is that he's often said to kidnap babies at 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.840 the edge of the forest, or to kidnap children, especially 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:15.400 unbaptized babies and children. Uh. And a lot of sources 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:19.360 mentioned this this idea of him luring wanderers off the 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.960 forest path by making noises. One of the sources I 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.000 was reading for this episode is a book by Elizabeth 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.840 Warner called Russian Myths from the University of Texas Press 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:33.199 in two thousand two, and Warner says, the less She 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.800 would quote hoot, roar, and howl, and the voices of 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:42.000 birds and beasts emit wild bursts of laughter, blood curdling shrieks, 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:45.880 and clap his hands loudly. Uh So, so it seems 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:47.640 like there are a couple of different ways that you 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:49.920 might catch the less She making sounds in the forest, 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.040 sometimes maybe mimicking the voice of an animal or human 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.880 in order to lure somebody off the path, or sometimes 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.240 just making a lot of noise, maybe to mess with 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.679 your head, kind of scare you or make you laugh. 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.080 Now picking up in the lessis appearance, there are several 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:07.319 sources that summarize the folklore. Again this is from Warner 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:11.120 and Russian Myths. Uh. The less She may and often 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.920 does look and dress like an ordinary human being. Like 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.000 there are some stories where the less She leaves the 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.600 forest and interacts with humans as if he looked like 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.240 any other human. But in fact, again, he is a 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.160 shape shifter, so he can mimic the appearance of not 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:28.920 just all the animals of the forest. Those are common 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.120 forms he takes, especially the form of a wolf or 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:34.000 a bear, But he can also mimic the appearance of 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:38.440 any particular person. So a child might be lured into 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.480 the forest by a vision of their own grandfather offering 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:46.320 them fruits and sweets. Or a person might be you know, 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:49.839 antagonized or lured off the path in the woods by 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.480 the shape of their own father or mother, or husband 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:56.320 or wife, or even their child. But much like the 0:09:56.440 --> 0:10:00.120 succubus who appears as a seductive, beautiful woman but with 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:03.280 say a duck's foot, the less she in disguise will 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.720 usually have a detail out of place, and that detail 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:10.040 will be noticeable to the observant. Hero you mentioned the 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.320 idea that the less she might cast no shadow, or 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:17.400 have their shoes on the wrong feet or backwards. Warner 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.640 gives the examples that the less she might be wearing 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.720 a calf tan like a like a Russian traveler might wear, 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:27.560 but the calf tan would be buttoned backwards, or his 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.800 eyes might be extremely pale, or he might have no 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:34.559 eyebrows I like that one, or again, he might cast 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.400 no shadow. And and and then finally, this one seems particularly 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:42.040 relevant in his role in confusing travelers in a forest, 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:46.480 he might leave no footprints. I love how common this 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.760 detail is across so much different folklore, that the monster 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.000 or the trickster demon will have some kind of detail 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.480 wrong that allows you to spot it. Yeah. And it's 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:58.800 the kind of myth, that kind of legend that that 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:02.280 appeals well to our our nature, you know, because when 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.760 when we're just encountering people for the first time, situations 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:09.120 for the first time, the suspicious mind is always looking 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.080 for for some sort of a tell, right, like what's 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.800 weird about this person, what's weird about this place? Yeah? 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.760 And and it also it makes the myth more fair, 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:21.760 I mean, unlike just the less she being a a 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:24.840 power that cannot possibly be overcome, and it just takes 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.360 whoever it wants and does whatever it wants. The fact 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:31.800 that there's some detail often wrong with it allows the 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:35.880 observant hero, the virtuous protagonist of the story, to to 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.320 catch them, to be like, hey, wait a minute, there's 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.000 something wrong with you. It makes you It makes you 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.600 think that maybe if you are clever enough, if you're 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.560 observant enough, then you could best the leshy. Now, Warner 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:49.960 agrees with what we already talked about about the less 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.320 She being able to dramatically change size, and it's often 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.880 reported in these stories that he can become taller than 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.320 the tallest tree tops. Remember the story at the beginning 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.360 of the woman who says the less She is like 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.679 a bell tower. Or he can be small, small enough 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:08.080 to hide behind grass or behind a mushroom. Now in 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:12.839 his true form, Warner says that the leshies appearance betrays 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:16.240 his affinity for the vegetation of the forest. So his 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:19.240 skin might very much resemble the bark of a tree. 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.720 It will be rough and gnarly. And sometimes he's said 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:25.360 to be completely covered in hair, But sometimes he's just 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:27.880 got hair on his head and a beard, and in 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.560 those cases his hair and beard might be as green 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:34.320 as the vines and the grass. But some imagery of 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:38.240 the leshy is more classically devilish in the Christian sense, 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.199 or at least in the syncratistic Christian sense that that 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.880 combines sort of Satan with the god pan uh Warnt. 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:50.000 Warner says that many descriptions include shaggy hair, almost like moss, 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.520 but also cloven hoofs and horns on his head and 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.320 a tail like the devil's tail. And then finally she 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.360 mentions that the horns are golden in the case of 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:03.559 one particular killer Lessi known as the leshy Czar. Uh. 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.840 But anyway, I think this devilish appearances is interesting because 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.240 it uh, it makes sense based on something that Warner 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:14.640 talks about in her book, which is called the dual Faith. 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.959 This idea that after Christianity took over the Kiev and 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:22.319 Ruth state in the tenth century, Christianity and old pagan 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:28.080 practices kind of mesh together. They coexisted for hundreds of years. Yeah, 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:31.280 and we've discussed examples of this before with other other 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:36.199 legends and folklore and and even mythologies. Um where Yeah, 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.120 the new, a new faith comes along and it doesn't 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:42.240 just wipe out the old. It adds new wrinkles to 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:47.560 the old or and or exist alongside the old uh 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.160 in ways that that might not make sense if you 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.600 were to say, write them out or discuss them. You know. 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:56.320 It's it's always fascinating how even as modern humans, the 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:00.440 various conflicting worldviews and ideas of the natural and the 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:05.160 supernatural that can simultaneously exist in our minds. It can 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.480 be hard to enforce the borders of one supernatural picture 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:10.840 of the world, Like it can be hard to sort 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:12.920 of like beat into people like no, no, no, like 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.160 this part these supernatural beliefs are acceptable. But these other 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:21.040 ones that your grandparents believed and their grandparents before them, 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.240 you can't believe those anymore. Yeah, Like, I remember, when 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:25.880 I was younger, there was a time when I was 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.360 at least a bit afraid of the prospect of both 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.720 aliens and ghosts, which rationally, it seems like, you know, 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:35.840 now I'm looking back and like, well, surely I should 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:37.520 have just picked one or the other, like one would 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:39.400 seem more likely than the other, and that should be 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.880 the one to be afraid of. I can't be, you know, 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:44.920 I can't just be afraid of everything that's on Unsolved Mysteries. 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.440 I have to pick, you know, like obviously be afraid 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.520 of the criminals, but then choose aliens or ghosts Like 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.360 I shouldn't have to, I shouldn't take both on. But no. 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.680 Unsolved Mysteries presents a perfect synchrotistic view of the world, 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:01.560 where all paranormal phenomena exists simultaneously now. Additionally, as Rose 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.120 points out, each forest is said to have its own leshy, 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.600 unless it's a very large forest, and then then you 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:08.120 can have more than one lessie. I guess it just 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:10.440 comes down to It's kind of like having park rangers, right, 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.000 depends just how big the park is, right. They gotta 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.840 like a range a territory, right. Furthermore, the less she 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.720 may have a wife in some traditions, which is a lessovica. 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:25.240 And then there are sometimes leshy children or l shunky. 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:29.400 And there's also a variety of leshy sometimes described as 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:33.000 a as a zoi, a bots schnick that takes on 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:36.400 the guys and sound of a baby gurgling in the treetops. 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:39.760 So in that in that case, a quality that is 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:45.400 sometimes ascribed to the leshy in general is sometimes pulled 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.120 out and made its own particular thing. Yeah, and I 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:50.920 think it's interesting the idea of giving a leshia family 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:55.200 allows you to to sort of add in more dynamics 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.960 that would explain natural phenomenon potentially, Like, for example, one 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:01.600 of our sources was saying that if you saw a whirlwind, 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.440 I think mean you know, whirlwind or even a tornado, 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:08.360 that was the leshy dancing with his wife, so adding 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:10.880 the wife in you know, they're twirling through the forest. 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:15.360 But this dovetails with another interesting belief, which is that 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.840 sometimes fallen trees found in the forest were said to 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:23.080 have been knocked over by fights between leshies. But you know, 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.760 you put those two things together kind of dovetails into 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.640 this interesting idea that I wonder if people at some 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:32.400 point maybe came across the path that a tornado or 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:36.080 whirlwind had cut through a forest, and you know, it 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:38.480 looks like something is just like come through and mode 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.360 this this shaved line out through the middle of the woods, 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.320 and what happened here? What was less She's fighting or 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.280 it was less she's dancing. Yeah, because there are no tracks, 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.280 and you know, there's no there's no sign that animals 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:54.120 did this, and yet something large has has trampled the 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:58.800 woods now like the forest itself. You know, at least 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.880 from a folkloric standpoint, the less she is said to 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.720 die with the advent of winter and then emerge from 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.600 his winter death in the spring. And it's during this 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.760 time and once the lessies have come back that has 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.760 said that the that the leshies of the forest rage 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:19.160 over their autumn deaths. They realize that they had died previously. 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.679 Now they're mad about it, and this raging produces storms 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:25.440 and floods in the process, but then all that settles 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.159 down again. So here we see an idea of the 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:31.119 leshy is a way to explain not only specific storm 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:35.879 damage but also just the general pattern of like spring storms. 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.040 On top of that, the the lesh she is a 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.880 bit of a bit of a trickster again, sometimes calling 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:42.960 out to human travelers with the sounds of the forest 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.560 to lead them astray, even taking the form of a 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:49.520 fellow traveler to give them bad advice or guidance, disappearing 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:51.760 and laughing once they managed to get them lost in 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.840 a bog or worse. Um, and uh, you'll have other 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.639 individuals though, that are wise to the ways of the leshy, 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:01.000 that they'll know how to out smart them or and 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:02.760 we'll get into an example of that. It's smart them 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.360 in a bit, but also making offerings to them such 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.040 as salt and bread. Yeah, Elizabeth Warner points out how 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.400 there was some kind of division. Like She starts by 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.160 saying that, of course, you know, for many Russian people 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.560 living at the edge of the forest, the forest was 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:23.080 itself an image of of great bounty but also great 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.359 chaos and great danger, and that is of course true, 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:28.480 Like you know, becoming lost in the forest, you can 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:30.760 quite easily die. This is something I think a lot 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:33.840 of people don't really remember these days. Maybe they go 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.560 out and experience the forest in say nature trails that 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.440 have forged paths that you can follow, but like, it's 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:42.879 really easy to get lost and die in the woods. 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:44.560 And I want to talk more about the science of 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:48.360 that later on. But but then there are these professions 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:50.919 where people would have to go into the woods in 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.800 order to make a living, for example, and there would 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.400 be herdsman and hunters like you mentioned, and herdsman very 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.399 often in medieval Russia would not graze their cattle in 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:03.239 open pastures, but would graze them through the woods. They 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:06.040 would have to find, you know, like little patches and 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.960 openings throughout the trees, and so it would require them 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.119 to go into the domain of the leshy and and 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:16.119 risk risk all these dangers. And so Warner writes, quote, 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.840 protective measures could be taken against the leshy, making the 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.879 sign of the cross, uttering a prayer or spell, and 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:27.679 more interestingly, reversing one's clothing or retracing one's steps backwards 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.480 out of the forest, reversal of the normal back to frontness, 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:35.359 upside downness, left as opposed to right. We're all signs 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:39.719 of the supernatural and Russian tradition. Yes, I I absolutely 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.640 love this. Uh this example, the idea of wearing your 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:46.199 clothes backwards or walking backwards as a way to to 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:51.159 outsmart the leshy um and we see we see versions 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:54.800 of this pop up in other traditions as well. For instance, Uh, 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:57.760 I read that you see this in Irish folklore, sometimes 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:04.040 concerning encounters or potential encounters with dangerous varieties of fairy um. Uh. 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:07.240 And the idea here, it seems, and this is gonna vary. 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.560 There's not like you know, anybody wrote wrote this down 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:12.719 and came up with necessarily a straightforward reason that this works. 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:16.480 But one one interpretation is that it's just about confusing 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:18.919 the spirit. Like the spirits like, oh, I'm gonna I'm 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:23.240 gonna get this woodsman now, and then he realizes, oh 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:25.439 that what's going on here? His clothes are on backwards. 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:26.600 I don't know what to do. I guess I'll just 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:30.040 watch him for a bit. Or it tricks the spirit 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.080 or fairy or leshy in this case, into thinking you're 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:37.160 leaving rather than arriving. And I love the twisted logic 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.240 of this, where it's like the lest She shows up, 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.440 it's like, all right, it's time to time to to 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.480 to unleash some havoc. Well, look at this guy coming 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:48.040 into my far Wait. Oh, the way they're clothes are 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:50.000 or are based. I can tell it looks like he's 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:52.600 walking away. All right, He's good, he's leaving. Carry on. 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.879 You know, it's just fabulous. This is really funny because 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.040 it kind of connects to the idea of wearing eye 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:02.040 spots on your back to deter preditors in the forest. Yeah, yeah, 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:04.680 which is which is something that has been been done. 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:07.040 We've discussed this in the show before too, with varying 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.400 degrees of success with both humans and also putting eye 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:13.000 spots on the back of cattle to deter lion attacks 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:16.800 and in parts of Africa. Now, as Rose points out 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:19.919 that the lest She can be very generally classified as 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:22.880 a guardian spirit, which we see in various and far 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:26.360 flung cultures. Many versions of this revolve around the protection 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:30.359 of individuals, uh, and these should be pretty familiar with 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:31.800 a lot to a lot of people. You have like 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:35.439 the guardian angels of Latin, Greek and Russian, Orthodox and 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:39.040 Anglican churches. These are assigned from the hour of an 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:44.320 individual's birth. Uh. Interestingly, one that Rose describes in her 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.400 book is the grind a gin of in the folklore 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:51.480 of Morocco. That's described as kind of inhabiting a parallel world. 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:54.159 So it's not that they're assigned to an individual, but 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.440 they're they're born at the same moment in this other world, 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:00.439 and so there's this bond between the two. Likewise, you 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.560 also have just Damon's and lend Lars, you know, getting 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:06.600 into ancient Greek and Roman tradition, and one also sees 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.440 this concept in the traditions of say Uh in Native 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:14.119 American tribes, Native Australian cultures as well. There there are 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:16.520 a lot of these to list, and she has a 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:18.640 lot a lot of them in the book, ranging from 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:21.560 the ab gal to the zoa. But then as an 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:24.560