Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex bar and Lazarre. Hello, everybody nailed it,
Speaker 1: joined us always our bar Here is Evan Lazar and
Speaker 1: Alex bars Its a really good chiefs team. More point
Speaker 1: is Kyle Shanahan. You're not even blaming at the argument correctly?
Speaker 1: I am no, you're not. I am up you're talking
Speaker 1: about it doesn't matter? Uh? Do we get fine for that?
Speaker 1: Morrel Harry in trouble, I didn't make anything, you know,
Speaker 1: when I get fired up.
Speaker 2: When I started swearing on the era, I think I
Speaker 2: swear the most out of anybody. I think I have
Speaker 2: the biggest potty mouth on Patriots dot Com radio.
Speaker 1: But it's it's always just s h I T. Morrell.
Speaker 1: It's not I it never it never. No, you've dropped
Speaker 1: you dropped the F a couple of time. No, yeah
Speaker 1: you have. I remember you did? I remember? No.
Speaker 2: No, it never escalates beyond beyond that, and that in
Speaker 2: my vocabulary, that's that's like not a swear, you know,
Speaker 2: it's in that like middle ground of swear not swear.
Speaker 2: All right, Anyways, Evan was our Alex Bartha The Patriots
Speaker 2: Catch twenty two. Busy, busy week, busy couple weeks for
Speaker 2: the off season coming up. Yesterday, we got a chance
Speaker 2: to speak with the Patriots new coordinators. We also got
Speaker 2: a chance to speak with the entire coaching staff in
Speaker 2: a off the record'll lit'll get together what do you
Speaker 2: call it, a little gathering after meet and greet. That's
Speaker 2: what I'm looking for, meet and greet afterwards. So we
Speaker 2: can't really get into too many details about what we
Speaker 2: talked about with the coaches, but it was great to
Speaker 2: get some FaceTime with them and obviously hear from the
Speaker 2: coordinators in a more formal setting as well. And on
Speaker 2: the one hand, Alex I, I I have to be fair.
Speaker 2: Last week I came in here hot about how I
Speaker 2: felt like there was really no direction from a full
Speaker 2: ball perspective, not not from a culture building, a you know,
Speaker 2: CEO perspective, but a football perspective.
Speaker 1: So I have to be fair. Yesterday I got it.
Speaker 2: I got a little bit more of what what we're
Speaker 2: going for here in terms of building the team. But
Speaker 2: with that said, I I also, you can't win me
Speaker 2: over just because you you you know, gave me some
Speaker 2: appetizers and got let me talk to this alex fan
Speaker 2: falta against about uh, you know past protection, right like
Speaker 2: that doesn't you got to win football games and you
Speaker 2: got to put together a football team. I'm not that easy. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm not that easy. Don't be don't just be, don't
Speaker 2: just be nice to the media. I'm not that easy.
Speaker 2: With that being said, uh, I do want to discuss
Speaker 2: what was said yesterday and talk about some of the
Speaker 2: things that I thought stood out to me about what
Speaker 2: was said at the at the press conferences with the coaches,
Speaker 2: and we are starting to talk about football, thank god,
Speaker 2: thank god, we're starting to actually talk about some real
Speaker 2: football here. But just in general, what were your impressions
Speaker 2: of the day yesterday? And it certainly feels different. I
Speaker 2: know nobody really cares about them being nicer to the media,
Speaker 2: Like I know that a lot that you shouldn't care, frankly, right,
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, it was, honestly,
Speaker 2: it was a lot of fun to get to pick
Speaker 2: those guys' brains and to talk football with the coaching staff.
Speaker 2: And we saw Dante high Tower, which was really cool
Speaker 2: to see him back in the building. So what were
Speaker 2: your general impressions yesterday?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think just in terms of the press conferences,
Speaker 1: and again they didn't get into a ton of football
Speaker 1: stuff there, but it's something we talked about last week.
Speaker 1: I think flexibility is going to be a big part
Speaker 1: of what they do and not being you know, they'll
Speaker 1: have their core concepts, but they emphasized not necessarily being
Speaker 1: married to doing things a certain direct, concrete way if
Speaker 1: they can't do them. And you know, again from Alex
Speaker 1: van Pelt yesterday, it's not so much about scheme. It's
Speaker 1: about the players and putting those people in positions to succeed.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of different schemes out there. The best
Speaker 1: ones put the best players in positions to be successfully. Again,
Speaker 1: that's what I think, and it's something the Patriots were
Speaker 1: so good at for so long. But something I feel
Speaker 1: they got away from the last few years was I'm
Speaker 1: not breaking news here when I say the Patriots won't
Speaker 1: have the most talented roster in the league next year, right,
Speaker 1: probably not even if they get there. You know, you're
Speaker 1: talking about three four years. So what you have to
Speaker 1: do to punch above your weight is figure out ways
Speaker 1: to maximize the talent you have and figure out ways
Speaker 1: to incorporate players where where they're hitting their absolute ceiling,
Speaker 1: and you're maybe able to hide some of those deficiencies
Speaker 1: that is going to have to be and there's numerous
Speaker 1: ways to do that. That's a very umbrella answer. It's
Speaker 1: a very big ten answer. But yeah, I think that,
Speaker 1: I I know, I hear it by that. I'm not
Speaker 1: annoyed by it. I just I'll believe it when I
Speaker 1: see it.
Speaker 2: So okay, And and this end to the point, I
Speaker 2: think a lot of these guys, and not to cut
Speaker 2: you off, but I think a lot of the offensive guys,
Speaker 2: especially like an Alex van Pelt at Ben McAdoo, like
Speaker 2: these guys have been married to their scheme for decades,
Speaker 2: like this is not It's like kind of telling Bill
Speaker 2: O'Brien to like start over, Like I just don't see
Speaker 2: that happen.
Speaker 1: You're not picking up where he left off last week.
Speaker 1: You're not starting over. There's a core concept there. You're
Speaker 1: not gonna tell Alex van Pelt to go run the
Speaker 1: air raid, right. He's run offenses out of shotgun, He's
Speaker 1: run offense out of under center. He's run offenses with
Speaker 1: mobile quarterbacks, He's run offenses with statues he's run tight
Speaker 1: end heavy, like, there's different ways to execute that scheme.
Speaker 1: Not He was asked about if he's going to run
Speaker 1: the same offense he did in Cleveland. Yeah, and he
Speaker 1: said similar, not the same, And then he said, because
Speaker 1: the personnel will be different. That's the point. And like
Speaker 1: you said, it's all well and good to say that
Speaker 1: does it translate to wins? It's really the only thing
Speaker 1: that matters. And my big big takeaway was I think
Speaker 1: these guys get it from a this is where the
Speaker 1: team is at, this is what they have to do
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Whether or not that translates is another question,
Speaker 1: and we won't know. I mean, we don't even get
Speaker 1: to start talking about that until we get in the
Speaker 1: spring practices and then obviously the games that actually matter.
Speaker 1: But I do think that understanding of hey, we're probably
Speaker 1: gonna have to be creative. It's not gonna be the
Speaker 1: exact setup we want. How can we maximize what we
Speaker 1: have getting started here? That I think that's a lot
Speaker 1: better than bringing in a coach who says, all right, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I came from San Francisco, so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: run just exactly what I ran in San Francisco. Even
Speaker 1: though you don't have McCaffrey, you don't have Debo, you
Speaker 1: don't have Kittle, that would be banging your head against
Speaker 1: to all that would work. I think there's this recognition
Speaker 1: of we're gonna need to find ways to maximize the
Speaker 1: talent we have while this roster gets rounded out. And
Speaker 1: that is again something that I think maybe fell off
Speaker 1: here the last couple of years, and that we've always
Speaker 1: done it this way. We're gonna do it this way
Speaker 1: even though you didn't have Tom Brady, you didn't have
Speaker 1: Devin mccordy, you didn't have Danta Hitier, didn't have Julian Edelman,
Speaker 1: and they were still sort of operating like they had
Speaker 1: those players. Yeah, No, I agree. Feel like now the
Speaker 1: agree coaches, all right, if we have to, you know,
Speaker 1: skew it more towards tight ends, We're gonna scuw it
Speaker 1: more towards tight ends. We're gonna skew it more towards receivers.
Speaker 1: We're gonna skew more towards receivers if we need to do.
Speaker 1: If we need to run it more out of shotgun,
Speaker 1: We're gonna run it more out of shotgun. If we
Speaker 1: need to run it more under center. We're gonna run
Speaker 1: it more under center. And that, to me is one
Speaker 1: of the most interesting parts about Van Pelt as a candidate,
Speaker 1: is that, well, his offense isn't maybe this heralded Shanahan whatever.
Speaker 1: He's been a lot of places, He's done a lot
Speaker 1: of things. He hasn't always run the exact same offense.
Speaker 1: There's the core concept still, and he's not gonna go out.
Speaker 1: They're gonna but they're gonna be a wide zone team.
Speaker 1: They're gonna be a wide zone team. Yeah, I'm not
Speaker 1: saying they're not, but there's.
Speaker 2: So they can't be drafting, you know. Frankly, Dwan Jones
Speaker 2: is as we've had a little bit yesterday, like if
Speaker 2: you have to build this team, yeah, in the vision
Speaker 2: of the coordinator. And I think that the fear that
Speaker 2: I have is that I'm not as Actually I shouldn't
Speaker 2: even say fear. I just I guess it's just more
Speaker 2: I would rather them get with Elliott Wolf, who I
Speaker 2: want to talk about in a second, as well, and
Speaker 2: say we need these types of tight ends, we need
Speaker 2: these types of receivers, we need these types of tackles,
Speaker 2: and get those types of players versus Elliott Wolf just
Speaker 2: handing them whatever he hands them and saying make it work.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, no, obviously obviously, and he I would think
Speaker 1: he does. He is kind of communicating with them and
Speaker 1: saying like, yeah, all right this, you know, these are
Speaker 1: the guys that kind of fit in this basket. These
Speaker 1: guys are kind of fit in this basket. But they're
Speaker 1: not gonna go out and get I mean they might,
Speaker 1: it would be nice, but are they gonna let's say
Speaker 1: they draft Marvin Harrison, right yeah, or let's say they
Speaker 1: draft Joalt the with the ultimate offensive scheme for twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four is gonna be is gonna look slightly different
Speaker 1: if you draft Jolt and you have, you know, a
Speaker 1: little bit lesser a wide day or draft market.
Speaker 2: But they want to run the ball. Yeah, that's I
Speaker 2: think gonna be a major emphasis for them. I think
Speaker 2: that they want to run mostly wide zone like they
Speaker 2: can do other things. And Cleveland certainly had a wide
Speaker 2: variety of runs that they went to, but it sounded
Speaker 2: like they went to some of the more gap stuff
Speaker 2: that they did recently more out of necessity than out
Speaker 2: of desire. But that's my point it and it worked
Speaker 2: to an extent. I mean, like, let's not act like
Speaker 2: Cleveland was the two thousand and seven Patriots.
Speaker 1: No, but that's exactly my point. Instead of just hey, this,
Speaker 1: we can't do this thing, but we're just gonna keep
Speaker 1: banging our heads against the wall and failing with it
Speaker 1: because it's what we do. We are going to adjust
Speaker 1: and actually try to you know, fair enough. And that's
Speaker 1: that that just I would just rather be really good
Speaker 1: at what they were really good at.
Speaker 2: I think the worst, the worst thing to do is
Speaker 2: to say to Alex van Pelt. And I'm just using
Speaker 2: this as an example because it's the guys that are
Speaker 2: prevalent right now, Like here's Jaden Daniels, figure it out,
Speaker 2: like your scheme like running under center, like bootleg gun
Speaker 2: action things like that. All right, excuse me, bootleg action,
Speaker 2: no gun right right? That that that's not gonna work
Speaker 2: with with Jaden Daniels. But asking him to all of
Speaker 2: a sudden be Greg Roman is a mistake, Like that's
Speaker 2: that's not gonna work.
Speaker 1: I guess here's here's my point. What if Alex van
Speaker 1: Pelt goes to them and says, I can make my
Speaker 1: offense work with Jane Daniels I'm gonna adjust these things,
Speaker 1: and this.
Speaker 2: Is that's different than me and him see it differently,
Speaker 2: which is like he's definitely right, way more experienced than
Speaker 2: I am. So maybe that's the case, right, Like maybe
Speaker 2: we see the players differently. But I want to get
Speaker 2: into the quarterbacks too. I don't want to get bogged
Speaker 2: down on this.
Speaker 1: I just think I just think being flexible at this
Speaker 1: stage is good because there are so many that can
Speaker 1: go and and look, maybe in an ideal world it
Speaker 1: works out and ultimately he gets the exact personnel he
Speaker 1: wants and he can run the exact offense he wants,
Speaker 1: and awesome, we're off and running that. That would be great.
Speaker 1: I would love that. That's not happening this year. Even
Speaker 1: if they have a perfect offseason, they're more than one
Speaker 1: off season away from getting to that point. So how
Speaker 1: are you gonna compensate for you know, maybe you don't
Speaker 1: have maybe get Marvin Harrison, but you don't have like
Speaker 1: the secondary receivers you want. Maybe they don't plan the
Speaker 1: tight end they want that David and Joku role, something
Speaker 1: like that. How are you going to Are you just
Speaker 1: gonna keep throwing the ball to bad tight ends? Because
Speaker 1: well in the offense we run, we throw the ball
Speaker 1: to the tight end eighty five times.
Speaker 2: Now I would just say prioritize the tight end. Okay, well,
Speaker 2: I mean now there's there's options. Maybe a tight end
Speaker 2: gets hurt. Maybe you have a big game and the
Speaker 2: tight end gets hurt. Are you just gonna throw the
Speaker 2: ball to a bad tight end because that's what we do.
Speaker 2: Are you gonna get creative, get in the lab and
Speaker 2: be like, all right, well this week, this is gonna
Speaker 2: be a bigger part of our game plan. That's what
Speaker 2: I'm saying that I felt like did not exist here
Speaker 2: the last few years at Macro and Micro.
Speaker 1: I just now I want the vision. I want.
Speaker 2: This is what our scheme is. This is what we're
Speaker 2: good at coaching, this is what we're good at designing
Speaker 2: play wise. So this is we need these players for it,
Speaker 2: and I want you know, unison like in vision of
Speaker 2: like personnel is lined up with coaching and that they understand,
Speaker 2: you know, this is we're gonna do X, Y and
Speaker 2: Z on offense.
Speaker 1: So we need you know, ABC player right and looking
Speaker 1: at it.
Speaker 2: If he wants to emphasize still a David and Joku
Speaker 2: type of tight end that's an explosive guy, make big
Speaker 2: plays happen. There is Jatavian Sanders, there is no fan
Speaker 2: in free agency. I Gerald Everett isn't necessarily the downfield
Speaker 2: player and Njoku is, but he's the scheme touch kind
Speaker 2: of guy that in Djoku is Like those players exist,
Speaker 2: So that's get it.
Speaker 1: But so that's exactly my point. We just said with
Speaker 1: Jerald Everett, because it's your whole plant's not gonna go perfect, right,
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to and and having contingency plans as
Speaker 1: part of this. But Jerald Everett good player, fits the system,
Speaker 1: but is not a one for one for David Joku. No,
Speaker 1: he's not the downfield player then, but maybe maybe they
Speaker 1: look at that and say, all right, we can bring
Speaker 1: him in and we can alter the tight end role
Speaker 1: a little bit in the bigger picture of what we do,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna make it work with Jerald Everett. Like
Speaker 1: that sort of flexibility to me is a good thing
Speaker 1: as opposed to all right, we wanted Jatavian Sanders, we
Speaker 1: didn't get them. Shoot, I guess we'll kick the can
Speaker 1: for tight end down to next year because we didn't
Speaker 1: get the exact player we wanted.
Speaker 2: That to me is what they've done the last few
Speaker 2: years under Bill, and how they got into trouble was
Speaker 2: like they just they didn't aggressively pursue.
Speaker 1: Those But they didn't because they did the first part
Speaker 1: of it. They would say, all right, we didn't get
Speaker 1: player A, we got player B. But then they would
Speaker 1: try to they would just use player B like he
Speaker 1: was player A exactly, even if he was a different player.
Speaker 1: I just want this regime to say we need player
Speaker 1: A and we're gonna do what it takes to get
Speaker 1: players right, and I want them to do that too.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna go one hundred percent doing that in
Speaker 1: the NFL. You're just not even if they spend, and
Speaker 1: that's not a the team's not gonna spend thing. That's
Speaker 1: just how many teams get every player they want in
Speaker 1: an offseason. Not every player. But there should be.
Speaker 2: Using tight end because we talked, there should be like
Speaker 2: a cluster of players that fitted so at some point
Speaker 2: in time, whether it's in free agency or it's in
Speaker 2: the draft, they should be able to get that type.
Speaker 1: So maybe using tight end isn't isn't a good example.
Speaker 1: It's not It's not just tight end. But like again,
Speaker 1: we're going to argue about this for the next like
Speaker 1: six months, so let's let's move on for now and
Speaker 1: and not filibuster too much. But I want to I
Speaker 1: want to talk about we're talking about it already, personnel
Speaker 1: because right now, at this point, my big picture takeaway
Speaker 1: from yesterday was the Patriots are not going to fail
Speaker 1: because of their coaching staff. I really feel that way.
Speaker 1: I think a v P and what they're building on
Speaker 1: defense with Mayo and Covington is gonna be good enough
Speaker 1: from a schematic strategy type of state, like a special
Speaker 1: team staff too.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say that, Yeah, yeah, sure you were
Speaker 2: gonna say it, no, because I fell asleep during that.
Speaker 1: So all, come on, allow you to talk about football guy.
Speaker 2: He is a football football oh yeah, talking about Adam
Speaker 2: vin Terry and like that. He's special team. He played,
Speaker 2: he played the hits. I don't I don't hold that again.
Speaker 2: He's a fireball, he's a ball of energy, which I know,
Speaker 2: like Cam McCord is not the most popular person around
Speaker 2: here right now, but Accord was the same way. A
Speaker 2: lot of energy, a lot of intensity, competitiveness, and that's
Speaker 2: a special teams coach, and that's.
Speaker 1: What no one else is about Springer.
Speaker 2: And I know it's it's not a glorified position, right,
Speaker 2: Like it's not like the sexiest of roles, so you
Speaker 2: have to have or you know. And when I say roles,
Speaker 2: I mean like for players to play in the kicking
Speaker 2: game is not the sexiest.
Speaker 1: No, But I think for him too. He played it
Speaker 1: at UTEP, which you know, no disrespect to UTEP, but
Speaker 1: it's not a premier program. And he said, yes, he
Speaker 1: was like I knew I wanted to be in the NFL,
Speaker 1: not playing coaching. He's a guy that seems like loves football,
Speaker 1: wanted to be around football however he could get there.
Speaker 1: And the other thing I'll say, he is a big
Speaker 1: time college coach vibe Yeah, like he is a college coach,
Speaker 1: which on special teams the way most teams build it,
Speaker 1: and I woul think they're gonna build it now. You
Speaker 1: generally have younger guys, yeah, and you have guys that
Speaker 1: maybe are going through that adjustment period. So I think
Speaker 1: a guy with a more college type of approach to
Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense in that role. And
Speaker 1: he he reminds me, He reminds me a lot more
Speaker 1: if I were to say, like personality and just talking
Speaker 1: to him about his coaching philosophy. If I was and
Speaker 1: he spent a lot of time coaching college like this
Speaker 1: isn't a surprise. But if I were to go through
Speaker 1: like coaches he reminds me of, I'd probably list like
Speaker 1: four or five college guys before i'd get to an
Speaker 1: NFL coach. Yeah, and he's got Tom Quinn on the
Speaker 1: staff too, which is great. Ben a defensive special teams
Speaker 1: coordinator for like a decade with the Giants. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so he's got a ton of extent. He was with
Speaker 1: the Titans last year where I think it was I
Speaker 1: don't know why I have fifth and eighth in my brain.
Speaker 1: I don't know which one it is, but top ten
Speaker 1: special teams unit last year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I want to At the end of the day,
Speaker 2: the coaching staff I don't think is going to be
Speaker 2: a detriment to this team. We'll see about Girod in
Speaker 2: terms of the CEO type of stuff, but in terms
Speaker 2: of x's and o's schematically, I don't think the coaching
Speaker 2: staff is going to be the reason why they're not good.
Speaker 1: I have one question about it. I'm just curious what
Speaker 1: you think. Yeah, so it's the only two we didn't
Speaker 1: have last time we talked, and it's tight end and
Speaker 1: wide receivers, coach talent us.
Speaker 2: But let's let's let's we'll get to that in a second.
Speaker 2: I want to stay, you know, kind of big picture
Speaker 2: for a sec. The biggest thing now is personnel. It's been,
Speaker 2: it's been the biggest thing I think this whole time.
Speaker 2: But now is when we start to really turn to personnel.
Speaker 2: The combines next week, free agencies a couple of weeks away.
Speaker 2: The draft is obviously at the end of April. So
Speaker 2: I think what we need to come away from this
Speaker 2: is is that now can Elliott Wolf pick the players? Well,
Speaker 2: it goes back it's Elliot Wolf's show, Like we need
Speaker 2: to not that we don't already on this show, but
Speaker 2: Patriots fans need to realize that even though he doesn't
Speaker 2: have the title, the general manager of the Patriots right
Speaker 2: now is Elliott's.
Speaker 1: What I said the other week, right, Call him whatever
Speaker 1: you want, Call him the GM, call him the president
Speaker 1: of Football Ops, call him the King of New England.
Speaker 1: Call him for breakfast like he's he's my guess?
Speaker 2: Is his like a total guess, but president of Football
Speaker 2: Ops has a nice rank.
Speaker 1: To as long as it's not chief football officer because
Speaker 1: I don't think it will Yeah, okay, no, because they
Speaker 1: don't really use like the general manager title around here.
Speaker 1: They haven't used it since Sullivan like this, it's not
Speaker 1: even a Robert Crafting orth Line never employed it.
Speaker 2: Right, So director of player personnel right now is what
Speaker 2: macro is. So to create a role above macro that's
Speaker 2: not general manager, president of football operation seems like that would.
Speaker 1: Be so in the past, I just pulled it up here.
Speaker 1: In the past, they've used VP of Player Operations. I
Speaker 1: could see that. Yeah, director of player personnel, director of
Speaker 1: pro personnel, de facto general manager, director of player personnel
Speaker 1: and uh VP, So they've used craft uh Peoly was
Speaker 1: VP of player personnel. Yea, So maybe that's what that's.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's this is just academic at this point.
Speaker 1: But it goes back to your point, can you pick
Speaker 1: the players? Remember all during the season when we would
Speaker 1: kind of do the offseason look aheads and people say,
Speaker 1: what do you think of this player? What do you
Speaker 1: think of this player? Should they do this? Should they
Speaker 1: do that? And we always kind of came back to
Speaker 1: who's coaching the team, who's picking the players. We finally, finally,
Speaker 1: finally have the answer to those questions, and now we
Speaker 1: lock in on this and and those guys set it up.
Speaker 1: Those guys set it up yesterday. Covington didn't talk so
Speaker 1: much about it. But there wasn't a ton of scheme
Speaker 1: talk to get into with Covington because he kind of
Speaker 1: set off the top. Yeah, we're gonna do what we
Speaker 1: did right, which you'd expect. There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1: But Van Pelt was very He didn't use the exact phrase,
Speaker 1: which I love, but he danced around at a bunch.
Speaker 1: It's Jimmy's and Joe's, not X's and O's. And Springer
Speaker 1: talked about that. But that's what it is you can have.
Speaker 1: That's what it makes us a good combo. You you
Speaker 1: you come at it from that angle. I look at
Speaker 1: it and say, inside, I want my coordinator to be like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be the best schemer. No scheme. You can
Speaker 1: have a good scheme. But Kyle Shanahan could go out
Speaker 1: there with his best game plan and he could put
Speaker 1: I'm using him again, you know, I'm using him as
Speaker 1: the best play designer in the league. I'm actually complimenting
Speaker 1: him because I do think he is that who would
Speaker 1: you rather me? Andy Reid could design the best offense
Speaker 1: he's ever designed for a game, but he could put
Speaker 1: me you I I'm just being it would look tight.
Speaker 2: I obviously agree that at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: it's about the players, which is my whole point here
Speaker 2: is that I think that if you give Alex van
Speaker 2: Pell good enough players that they're going to be a
Speaker 2: decent offense. And I don't think it's going to be
Speaker 2: him that's going to be holding them back it now
Speaker 2: it comes down to their setup right now is going
Speaker 2: to be Elliott Wolf and Girod Mayo are going to
Speaker 2: be picking the players when they go to turn in
Speaker 2: the card at three overall on April twenty eighth, it's
Speaker 2: probably going to be one of those two guys that
Speaker 2: has final say in the pick. I would lean probably
Speaker 2: towards Elliott, but I don't know that for a fact.
Speaker 2: And that look, all the heavy is the heads reported right,
Speaker 2: I think Rapport reported that he has like he has
Speaker 2: a final say, yeah, and heavy is the head that
Speaker 2: wears the crown. Like that's great. I'm happy for Elliott
Speaker 2: he's a good guy. I think he's got the experience.
Speaker 2: I think it's it's a long time coming for him
Speaker 2: to be in this role for a team, but now
Speaker 2: do it. But right now now you're the guy, right
Speaker 2: so whatever if success or fail, it's all gonna be
Speaker 2: on you. I just I think it's that's, at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, the biggest thing. And I thought
Speaker 2: one of the better quotes I just was pulling up
Speaker 2: quotes here from Gerard Mayo is it seems to me,
Speaker 2: based off of his remarks yesterday that this has been
Speaker 2: brewing behind the scenes that him and Elliott Wolf have
Speaker 2: kind of mustered up a connection with one another, you know,
Speaker 2: talking about he hit it off with Elliott Wolf the
Speaker 2: first time that they met, when Elliot Wolf got here
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. And then this was I
Speaker 2: think really a very good quote of you're a Patriots fan.
Speaker 2: Because it's important again for the coaching staff and the
Speaker 2: personnel department to be in unison and to have a
Speaker 2: shared vision from a team wide perspective all the way
Speaker 2: down to the individual players. Our philosophy's match. We want
Speaker 2: to put good football players out there that are fast,
Speaker 2: smart and really play for one another. He really sees
Speaker 2: it the same way. So I think that those two guys,
Speaker 2: at least currently, Let's see what happens if one of
Speaker 2: them likes j Daniels and one of them likes Drake,
Speaker 2: But at least currently those two guys have a shared vision.
Speaker 2: And I think my bigger takeaway too was just that,
Speaker 2: not to take anything away from Gerrod, but it really
Speaker 2: feels like Elliot Wolf is the one that's pulling the
Speaker 2: strings right now in terms even in terms of the
Speaker 2: coaching staff. Like Alex Van Pepe got up there and said,
Speaker 2: Elliott called me and I came in for the interview, right,
Speaker 2: Like he just came.
Speaker 1: Right out and said that, well that makes sense. Elliott
Speaker 1: Wolf's had more experience in this than Trop Mayo has,
Speaker 1: and and Drod even said like he leaned on people
Speaker 1: through certain steps being new. So yeah, no, it's it's
Speaker 1: very clearly Elliott Wolf's show. He's the GM.
Speaker 2: Yeah, getting to some of the schematic stuff, And this
Speaker 2: is what I was really looking for, right, I mean,
Speaker 2: this is what I was blew in the face last
Speaker 2: week about, is that can we stop talking about you know,
Speaker 2: bridges and silos and start talking about X's and No's
Speaker 2: and Jimmy's and Joe's right. You know, that's right. That's
Speaker 2: the big thing for me. And I thought that one
Speaker 2: of the couple of things that Mayo said about Alex
Speaker 2: van pel were really intriguing. He mentioned, you know, he
Speaker 2: was asked what coaching against Alex van Pelt, which he
Speaker 2: did twice over the last couple of years when the
Speaker 2: Patriots have played the Browns. They killed the Browns both times,
Speaker 2: so not exactly a great showing for the Browns offense,
Speaker 2: but there were reasons behind that. One of those games,
Speaker 2: Baker was hurt. They they had a bunch of guys
Speaker 2: out to injury. I don't think Nick Chubb played in
Speaker 2: that game the mac Jones' rookie year, and then the
Speaker 2: next year was Jacobe Brissett, like it was that Rundown
Speaker 2: Brown's offense. Anyways, the one thing I'd say about Van
Speaker 2: Pelt is that he can make the same concept look
Speaker 2: a bunch of different ways. That's always hard for us
Speaker 2: on the defensive side of the ball. So when he
Speaker 2: said that, I immediately thought to myself, Okay, this is Mayo
Speaker 2: telling us that that's the type of offense that he
Speaker 2: wanted them to install. He didn't want to have an
Speaker 2: offense that had a million different plays and was like
Speaker 2: more like EP System style where it's just like a
Speaker 2: million different things going on. He wanted to have an
Speaker 2: offense that had, you know, a lot of the Shanahan McDaniel,
Speaker 2: Sean McVay type of roots of this is all the
Speaker 2: same thing until it's not. And the Patriots had elements
Speaker 2: of that in their old offense, there's no doubt about that.
Speaker 2: But the Patriots in their old offense really tried to
Speaker 2: overwhelm you with information like we're gonna show different personnel groupings,
Speaker 2: we're going to show different formations, we're gonna do a
Speaker 2: bunch of different things, and you're just not going to
Speaker 2: be able to get a beat on what we're doing.
Speaker 2: This offense is going to be more married together in
Speaker 2: the in the run game play action pass and that
Speaker 2: sort of thing where it is wide zone, wide zone, bootleg,
Speaker 2: where it is you know, they're they're gonna run a
Speaker 2: lot of inside zone I think as well, you know,
Speaker 2: and then half boots like those types of things. So
Speaker 2: it was pretty clear even though you know, we knew
Speaker 2: this already based off of the guys that they interviewed
Speaker 2: that this was an offense that was intriguing to Girod.
Speaker 2: Mayo was something's a little bit more simple, a little
Speaker 2: bit more streamlined in terms of what they did in
Speaker 2: terms of the birth of the playbook. And I do
Speaker 2: think I think that, you know, just to gut, I
Speaker 2: think what's optimistic about this too is I do think
Speaker 2: that there's gonna be a lot more shared responsibility and
Speaker 2: it's not gonna all be on the quarterback at the
Speaker 2: line of scrimmage. Now, we talked a lot of yet
Speaker 2: last week about the Super Bowl and how it has
Speaker 2: to be a little bit of bolt and I think
Speaker 2: it will be. But in terms of the run game
Speaker 2: and in terms of most of the protection stuff, I
Speaker 2: think that the center, and you have a really good
Speaker 2: one and experienced one in David Andrews, is going to
Speaker 2: start to take on a whole lot more of the
Speaker 2: responsibility and that sort of respect as well. So in
Speaker 2: a lot of ways, I think that this was the
Speaker 2: way that they wanted to go offensively. Now, again, it
Speaker 2: just comes back to getting the players to run it.
Speaker 2: But I think that it's a good sign that Mayo
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, this was a this was a difficult
Speaker 2: offense to defend. Even though they didn't put up fifty
Speaker 2: points against us, you know, we saw that this was
Speaker 2: a difficult offense to defend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I just I'd agree with all that.
Speaker 1: I think the big thing is how they're going to
Speaker 1: handle the quarterback position in the transition. Again, it goes
Speaker 1: back to it's a different challenge, but it's similar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think rolling through five starting quarterbacks compared to having
Speaker 1: a rookie, there's unique challenges with both. Like Joe Flacco,
Speaker 1: although he's coming off the couch late in the season
Speaker 1: as your fifth starting quarterback, there are things you don't
Speaker 1: have to worry about with him, you are gonna have
Speaker 1: to worry about it with rookie. But overall, Van pel
Speaker 1: was in a situation last year where it moved him
Speaker 1: to make things easier on the quarterback. And that's again,
Speaker 1: that's not a dirty thing.
Speaker 2: That's not especially when the Patriots are gonna have a
Speaker 2: rookie most likely right and I don't know if he's
Speaker 2: gonna start right away, but the whole program is going
Speaker 2: to be around making Jaden Daniels or Drake may or
Speaker 2: Michael Pennix or whoever the best possible quarter right exactly.
Speaker 1: And I mean I've done this rant before. Everbody knows
Speaker 1: how I feel about this, like saying, oh, so you
Speaker 1: have to make it easy for the quarterback because he sucks.
Speaker 1: That's what it is. He sucks, so you have to baby, No,
Speaker 1: that's what smart teams do. The Bills do it for
Speaker 1: Josh Allen, the Ravens do it for Lamar Jack. Well,
Speaker 1: it just seems so silly Patrick Malmes for a long
Speaker 1: time not.
Speaker 2: To rag on like everything that they used to do,
Speaker 2: because I don't want to get into that pattern, right
Speaker 2: because it all, it all didn't stink, obviously, but it
Speaker 2: just was always so weird to me that they had
Speaker 2: David Andrews, who is as a veteran experienced of a
Speaker 2: center and smart as a center as you could possibly
Speaker 2: have in this league, and they gave the keys to
Speaker 2: the entire alert system and protection system to two rookie quarterbacks,
Speaker 2: essentially Mac Jones and Bailey Zappi. You know, Bailey's Appy's
Speaker 2: making his first career start and he's out there making
Speaker 2: checks and audibles at the line to scrimmage. When you
Speaker 2: have a ten year veteran at center, you know that
Speaker 2: that can handle these types of things that always interested
Speaker 2: you know, was fascinating to me that they put that
Speaker 2: much responsibility right away on the quarterbacks. I mean last
Speaker 2: year Mac Jones. I know he's not a rookie anymore,
Speaker 2: but he talked about it during training camp about how
Speaker 2: much the offense puts on the quarterback.
Speaker 1: And it was the third offense in three years. So
Speaker 1: it's not that he was a rookie, but it's just again,
Speaker 1: he's constantly learning and it's a lot to ingest. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And look, the quarterback position inherently has more going on
Speaker 1: than any other position. I'm not going to sit here
Speaker 1: and say take it all off the quarterbacks plate. That
Speaker 1: doesn't work. The Niners tried it. What you no reaction? No, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm over. We're moving on what we're We're onto the
Speaker 1: comp I'm not saying take it all off the quarterbacks plate.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is there are inherently things the quarterback
Speaker 1: is going to have to do that are our challenges
Speaker 1: that are just unique to that position. Why put more
Speaker 1: you have a young guy, right, why continue to pay
Speaker 1: And it's it's one thing when you have Tom Brady
Speaker 1: and he's been in the League for time. I feel
Speaker 1: like that's what they got stuck on. It is like
Speaker 1: they had Brady to do it, so they went that
Speaker 1: direction because Brady probably wanted to go, But also Brady
Speaker 1: wasn't doing that for twenty five years. Probably not. It
Speaker 1: built to that. And if you want to tell me, like,
Speaker 1: if they draft Drake May in ten years, Drake May's
Speaker 1: making all the check like hopefully still here in ten years,
Speaker 1: he's playing well, and he's making all the checks and
Speaker 1: calls and audibles in ten years, Well, that makes a
Speaker 1: lot more sense because that was probably a progression and
Speaker 1: he built up to it year one. Not so much.
Speaker 1: You want to ease these guys in. It's not a
Speaker 1: bad thing to say, Yeah, we want to ease our
Speaker 1: rookie quarterback in. And it goes back to the flexibility
Speaker 1: point two and all of that. But I do they're
Speaker 1: gonna have. They're gonna have.
Speaker 2: The quarterback's going to have some sort of power to
Speaker 2: be able to get to the line of scrimmage and
Speaker 2: once the center sets the protection and sets the call,
Speaker 2: and if the quarterback sees you know, this is what
Speaker 2: we're talking about with the Super Bowl that I felt
Speaker 2: like perty didn't do. If the quarterback sees a blitz
Speaker 2: tel on one side of the formation and he says
Speaker 2: to the center, hey, where are we going on this play?
Speaker 2: And the center says, the mic is over here, right,
Speaker 2: and he's saying, well, wait a second, where we need
Speaker 2: to be blocked up on backside here, then I think
Speaker 2: the quarterback is going to be able to have the
Speaker 2: control at the line of scrimmage to flip it right,
Speaker 2: to say, let's remike, let's flipper this, let's go over
Speaker 2: here now instead. I think that that's going to have
Speaker 2: that ability. But it's more gonna be Q seeing it
Speaker 2: before the ball is snapped.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: It's not gonna be the initial sort of stages of
Speaker 2: the setup of the play. It's gonna be the last second, Oh,
Speaker 2: you know, we have something funny going on over here.
Speaker 2: Let's make sure we alert that, or let's make sure
Speaker 2: we slide this way, or whatever the case may be,
Speaker 2: and he's gonna be able to do that. Whereas in
Speaker 2: the Patriots system, the quarterback got to the line of scrimmage,
Speaker 2: or I should say the Patriots old system got to
Speaker 2: the line of scrimmage and it was all on him
Speaker 2: to do the setup and then to do the final
Speaker 2: stages of it as well, So I like that they're
Speaker 2: gonna move on from that. The other thing that I
Speaker 2: like from what Mayo said about Van Pelton just about
Speaker 2: their vision. You know, he was asked kind of more
Speaker 2: about what how do you guys envision playing offense? What's
Speaker 2: important to you on offense? He said, I'm expecting for
Speaker 2: us and foremost a tough team, which you know every
Speaker 2: coach says. After that, it really gets into smart players,
Speaker 2: which I think is interesting because Van Pelt talked a
Speaker 2: lot about smart, you know, intelligent football players as well,
Speaker 2: not just at the quarterback position. He also mentioned it
Speaker 2: at the offensive line too, that they they are gonna
Speaker 2: have to have guys and con see things and are smart,
Speaker 2: intelligent players. You don't have to be a genius, but
Speaker 2: you have to be smart enough and really explosive players
Speaker 2: and guys that play for one another. It was that simple.
Speaker 2: It was that simple. Just that was so cookie cutter,
Speaker 2: surface level. I know people are gonna think I'm crazy
Speaker 2: for being like that checks the box that I was
Speaker 2: arguing about last week.
Speaker 1: But that's all I needed. That's all I needed.
Speaker 2: Just tell me how you're your thirty thousand foot fit
Speaker 2: feet view and vision of how you want to start
Speaker 2: to build this offense.
Speaker 1: That's all I need.
Speaker 2: I don't need the I don't need you to tell
Speaker 2: me the PowerPoint presentation of the entire offseason and which
Speaker 2: players you like and which guys you're gonna target and
Speaker 2: things like that would be great, but I don't need
Speaker 2: you to tell me that. I just need you to say,
Speaker 2: these are the types of football players that we want.
Speaker 2: This is the type of mentality that we want to
Speaker 2: have offensively. At least we got a little bit more
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 1: I felt like yesterday, Yeah, no, it started and they
Speaker 1: set off the top. They weren't going to talk x'es
Speaker 1: and o's, and then they did a little bit. So
Speaker 1: surprised by that, but you got the the general basis
Speaker 1: of it, I think for sure. Okay, a couple of
Speaker 1: last things here. We obviously have to talk about Van
Speaker 1: Pelt's answer about the quarterback right and what he looks
Speaker 1: for in the quarterback. He said it a couple of
Speaker 1: different ways, but I think the bigger things that he said,
Speaker 1: you know this was well, let's use the first answer,
Speaker 1: because that I think was more honest. That was the
Speaker 1: more gut reaction. The second one, the question was kind
Speaker 1: of phrased in a different way, so I don't.
Speaker 2: I wrote this with both answers combined. So I are
Speaker 2: talking about the decision making accuracy that answer.
Speaker 1: Hang on, I have it. No, I'm talking about the
Speaker 1: first one. Were talked about leadership, Yeah, the one that
Speaker 1: you hate.
Speaker 2: That's definitely ben was a theme of all the answers
Speaker 2: he gave about quarterback.
Speaker 1: It was leadership. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I'll just read this one decision making, accuracy, the
Speaker 2: fundamentals and mechanics that the guy has sound, and a
Speaker 2: big one again is leadership. The big piece for me
Speaker 2: is leadership, toughness, accuracy, decision making. All four are important.
Speaker 2: So he went on a lot about leadership, and here's
Speaker 2: the other one. Smart, tough, and a leader. You put
Speaker 2: him in charging those categories. Obviously, there's accuracy in the past, game, mobility,
Speaker 2: decision making.
Speaker 1: There's a lot that goes into it. But at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, that role is so important to
Speaker 1: the risk, not just the rest of the offense, but
Speaker 1: the rest of the team. A guy that's a true
Speaker 1: leader that can come in and really understand his teammates
Speaker 1: and get the best out of those guys. And then
Speaker 1: he said something a little later on. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: find it. He said something about, like, the physical traits
Speaker 1: are the physical attributes are obviously important, but if a
Speaker 1: guy's a leader can come in and make good decisions
Speaker 1: and throw the ball accurately, those are all pluses. So
Speaker 1: we refers to like actioning decision making. His plus has
Speaker 1: been on leadership. It kind of is like, well, if
Speaker 1: you can't be a leader, I don't really care what
Speaker 1: you can do elsewise.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that leadership obviously action decision making. Exactly
Speaker 2: what he said, And I think the last thing that
Speaker 2: he said, and I think, you know, Ben McAdoo sort
Speaker 2: of subscribes to this as well, is fundamentals. I think
Speaker 2: fundamentals is going to be important to these coaches. I
Speaker 2: think footwork, I think mechanics, and I look at some
Speaker 2: of these quarterbacks in the draft, and my guy, Drake
Speaker 2: may not necessarily the most mechanically sound right certainly more
Speaker 2: of a project right now in terms of those types
Speaker 2: of things. I'm not saying that they're not gonna that
Speaker 2: that eliminates Drake may from the conversation. But we have
Speaker 2: a show today. So the point, like, look, who do
Speaker 2: we think it fits that mold?
Speaker 1: There's no quarterback that checks every single one of those boxes.
Speaker 1: So I mean, I'm writing this column later today. But
Speaker 1: we can do we can do this fun little game here.
Speaker 1: Take Caleb Williams out of it, because we think he's
Speaker 1: going one one right, So we're not gonna include Caleb
Speaker 1: Williams in this. We'll go through the traits that he
Speaker 1: he included. Smart could mean a bunch of things, but
Speaker 1: let's just whatever you would consider smart for a quarterback
Speaker 1: reading a field. Yeah, give me a top three in
Speaker 1: the draft in terms of smart smart Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh that's tough, because I think it's it's hard. There's
Speaker 2: so many different systems with these quarters.
Speaker 1: However you want to qualify smart, I.
Speaker 2: Would say in terms of the guy that I feel
Speaker 2: like has the most thoughtfulness in terms of manipulation processing
Speaker 2: that type of stuff.
Speaker 1: This is what intrigues me about Drake May.
Speaker 2: I think he's the best passer out of this group, honestly, Like,
Speaker 2: not the best thrower necessarily, but the best passer where
Speaker 2: I see him using I'm using pump fakes, Like he
Speaker 2: knows that if he looks over there, it's going to
Speaker 2: open the passing window you know over there, you know,
Speaker 2: like those types of things. So I would say, in
Speaker 2: terms of decision making, processing and sort of the quarterbacky.
Speaker 1: Type of decision making, who's the best? All right? So smart?
Speaker 1: You're going Drake May? Yeah, best decision maker, best decision maker?
Speaker 1: I would probably have to give it to Jaden Daniels.
Speaker 1: I mean the guy through like seven turnover worthy plays
Speaker 1: the entire year. I thought, you know, he he showed
Speaker 1: a good ability to take care of the football. Wait,
Speaker 1: wait back to we were gonna do top three to
Speaker 1: put together? Who else is smart? You go? Drake May,
Speaker 1: I go Drake May. I would say that Caleb is
Speaker 1: probably a little bit take care of about it. They're
Speaker 1: not kidding it, okay, Pennix Penex Okay, yeah, in that
Speaker 1: Washington sis him Like, I don't know what it would
Speaker 1: look like in a different event. You only can work
Speaker 1: with what you you have to have. So I would say,
Speaker 1: Drake May, Pennix, and then you can go outside the
Speaker 1: top six too if you want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I would say Drake May, Penix, and
Speaker 2: maybe bo Nicks, but not because I want bo Nicks,
Speaker 2: just because I.
Speaker 1: Well, no, no, no, I mean, I think people see him
Speaker 1: going with this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been here for seventeen years in college. I mean,
Speaker 2: so like he's got.
Speaker 1: Experience decision making, said Daniels.
Speaker 2: Daniels, One, I would think, I mean, I think in
Speaker 2: terms of pure decision making, like I do think Pennox
Speaker 2: is pretty strong in that category. Two and uh, the
Speaker 2: last one I would probably go, I said Jaden.
Speaker 1: One, right, I would not put Drake. I will I
Speaker 1: was going to jump over his table if you try
Speaker 1: to put Drake is that is his biggest knock? Yeah,
Speaker 1: like he is. He's He's the Carnival Red. Uh. Can
Speaker 1: I pay I mean death guy. Can I pitch Michael Pratt? Yeah? Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I'm not drafting Michael Pratt. But but I mean,
Speaker 1: just for the sake of this pure Yeah, okay, so
Speaker 1: we have we have smarts, we have decision making. Toughness, Well,
Speaker 1: Jayden's certainly tough, but maybe too tough, right, Like a
Speaker 1: guy plays like Wiley. Kaya, I think there's a clear
Speaker 1: cut number one here. Who's that? It's Michael Pannis.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I guess that's fair just because of
Speaker 2: it bounce backs from the injuries and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly also the NASH Championship game with like a
Speaker 1: broken rip. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think Drake may is up there too in terms
Speaker 2: of just staring down the barrel and willingness to take
Speaker 2: hits and things like that in the pocket poise, you
Speaker 2: know that stuff. And I would put Jayden up there
Speaker 2: just because he does take risks with his body like
Speaker 2: he's not afraid, Like he doesn't play afraid. He plays
Speaker 2: maybe a little bit too confident, but he doesn't play afraid,
Speaker 2: which I think is important.
Speaker 1: Okay, so now we're not gonna do leadership because we're
Speaker 1: not in the room with these guys, and that's the
Speaker 1: biggest But I think that, you know, just like hearing
Speaker 1: some of the things that I was, you know, thinking
Speaker 1: about this, right, hang on, we'll save that for last year.
Speaker 1: Let's do accuracy. Most accurate, Yeah, I mean, I mean
Speaker 1: Nick's completed like seventy something percent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nicks's Nix was accurate. I think, you know, these
Speaker 2: guys all are accurate in different areas of the field,
Speaker 2: and some guys have issues for weather, area for.
Speaker 1: What they want to do. So put them in the
Speaker 1: kind of throws they'll be making with Patriots.
Speaker 2: Okay, most I think Daniels would probably be up there.
Speaker 1: Daniel's number one.
Speaker 2: Uh, He's his short accuracy is not very good, that's
Speaker 2: the problem. But like his deep acker, he's probably the
Speaker 2: best deep ball thrower.
Speaker 1: In the class, him or Penix.
Speaker 2: But in terms of timing accuracy, ball placement, I mean, look,
Speaker 2: I the one thing I'll say in Penis applies to
Speaker 2: the same thing as well. But when you're throwing the
Speaker 2: Molik Neighbors and Brian Thomas Junior, like those guys, everything's
Speaker 2: going to be on there. They're gonna they're open all
Speaker 2: the time. So it's kind of tough to say, but
Speaker 2: I think Daniel's really accurate with it. I think Pennix
Speaker 2: is obviously really accurate with especially the big time throws
Speaker 2: down the field. Is that point accuracy? And then probably.
Speaker 1: Bonnix Yeah, okay, so and then leadership.
Speaker 2: So I've heard some really good things about Drake May's leadership. Okay,
Speaker 2: I like guys, you know one of those guys he
Speaker 2: walks into the room, gravitate towards him and like you know,
Speaker 2: like Bill Partslls I think used to call him planet player. Yes, right,
Speaker 2: does guys that have that gravitational poll that can get
Speaker 2: the group together. I think he's up there. I think
Speaker 2: Pennix is one one though, and that k oh yeah,
Speaker 2: so i'd say Pennix Drake May two. I've heard that
Speaker 2: Jayden Daniels has gotten better in this regard, but certainly
Speaker 2: early on in his career like at Arizona was at
Speaker 2: Staate Arizona State.
Speaker 1: Did you watch that that series LS you put out
Speaker 1: on but obviously it's from LSU. You did watch? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he's I think he's grown into it. I think
Speaker 1: he has. So here's what you have and we can
Speaker 1: kind of is this is an aggregate like I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, we're gonna kind of aggregate it. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: Drake May and we'll see it was the the highest
Speaker 1: score we do. So d May has three plus and
Speaker 1: now is at five. So we'll give Drake May a seven.
Speaker 1: We'll give Michael Penneck unless you want to talk while
Speaker 1: I add this up. Now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I know where you're going with this
Speaker 2: on your in your report card.
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily disagree with you. I honestly, like I'm
Speaker 1: writing this later, I just that's why I head you
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 2: But I just think the biggest thing that I came
Speaker 2: away with from yesterday is is It's so fascinating. I
Speaker 2: think this goes back, you know, not to make everything
Speaker 2: about the forty nine ers, but it goes back to
Speaker 2: so many of these quarterback decisions that we've seen over
Speaker 2: the last couple of years around the league, where the
Speaker 2: coaches want one thing and the personnel department. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying that they're out of Divie because I don't know that,
Speaker 2: but I'm just this happens all the time. The personnel
Speaker 2: department looks at traits right like they look at arm strength, mobility,
Speaker 2: accuracy down the field, toughness in the pocket, poise, and
Speaker 2: then the coaching staff comes in and says, this guy's
Speaker 2: foot is a mess, this guy's release is a mess,
Speaker 2: Like I have to fix all of this.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you know we'll we're gonna have one more
Speaker 1: because you talked about it. Mechanics.
Speaker 2: Mechanics, Yeah, I think the cleaning. I think Jaden Daniels
Speaker 2: is the cleanest thrower and this class. He's got some
Speaker 2: footwork things that he's got to work out, but in
Speaker 2: just in terms of delivery and upper body, he's got
Speaker 2: a really nice compact release. I know you're gonna hate that.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say this, but JJ McCarthy is probably number
Speaker 2: two on the list.
Speaker 1: Well, they're not always consistent, but yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Mean he has a really good ability to uh snap
Speaker 2: the ball out of his hand and you know, really
Speaker 2: connect his body together to generate velocity. Uh JJ McCarthy
Speaker 2: number two. I can't put Pennis in there because he's
Speaker 2: just he's lefty and it just I have you seen
Speaker 2: have you watched it flip Okay, but it's like it's real,
Speaker 2: so right, and like I just I wouldn't put him there,
Speaker 2: And I can't put Drake may there either because he's
Speaker 2: all over the place.
Speaker 1: Sometimes put Joe Milton there. Definitely Rattler Nicks, I would say, uh, Pratt,
Speaker 1: it's probably Rattler. Michael Hartman, Rattler might.
Speaker 2: Be up there, honestly, like just because you know, he
Speaker 2: does a really good job of generating velocity from his
Speaker 2: lower half.
Speaker 1: So I would say rattler. Okay. So here's Evan Lazar's
Speaker 1: aggregate scores for the best fits for what Alex Van
Speaker 1: Pelt said he's looking for at quarterback. Yep, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go bottom to the top. So Michael Pratt Spencer Ratler
Speaker 1: both scored a one. Good. You want a high higher
Speaker 1: number better? Yeah. JJ McCarthy scored a two. Yeah, Bo
Speaker 1: Nick scored a four. Okay, Drake May scored a seven. Yep,
Speaker 1: jayde and Daniels scored a ten, and Michael Pennock scored
Speaker 1: an eleven. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I hear what you're saying. I mean when you start
Speaker 2: to really boil it down. But again, I think what
Speaker 2: I was talking about when you were computing your your
Speaker 2: report card over there is this, I think often is
Speaker 2: the divide between the coaching staff and the front office.
Speaker 2: The coaching staff wants a leader. They want a tough guy.
Speaker 2: They want a fundamentally sound guy. They want to pro
Speaker 2: ready quarterback. Frankly like, that's what they want. They want
Speaker 2: an adult. They don't want to take a kid and
Speaker 2: have to develop him because, let's face it, you don't
Speaker 2: often get a lot of time in this league. So
Speaker 2: if you have to take a guy and develop him
Speaker 2: for two or three years, you might get fired by
Speaker 2: the time the.
Speaker 1: Guy is ready to really so if you take leadership
Speaker 1: out of it, yeah, then Jaydan Daniels actually has the
Speaker 1: best score with a nine, then it's Michael Pennix with
Speaker 1: an eight, then it's Drake May with a five. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Look, Jayden Daniels is a really good prospect. I have
Speaker 2: him in the same tier as Drake May. I don't
Speaker 2: hate Jayden Daniels by any means. I think the only
Speaker 2: difference is is that I think one is fit to
Speaker 2: play under center and one isn't. And is that going
Speaker 2: to be a deal breaker for AVP? Is that we
Speaker 2: have to be able to play from under center. You're
Speaker 2: not putting Jayden Daniels under center.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: We talked about it in the past, and we'll get
Speaker 2: into it a little bit more, and certainly if they
Speaker 2: draft and we'll get into it a ton. But the
Speaker 2: one thing that teams like Baltimore, teams like Miami I've
Speaker 2: done with quarterbacks that aren't comfortable under center is they
Speaker 2: run a lot more pistol because in the pistol they
Speaker 2: can still have that action with the bootleg and turn
Speaker 2: your back to the defense and fake a handoff, and
Speaker 2: then the running back still has the option to go
Speaker 2: either direction because he's not offset. So you have that
Speaker 2: freedom to be able to do some of the same
Speaker 2: mechanics of being under center, but you're doing it from
Speaker 2: a more of a gun type of alignment. So maybe
Speaker 2: that's the answer. Like if they draft Jaden Daniels, maybe
Speaker 2: they run wide zone like Miami runs wide Zone, which
Speaker 2: is from the gun in the pistol. Maybe they run,
Speaker 2: you know, more of stuff that is a little bit
Speaker 2: more like Baltimore from the pistol. But again that's the
Speaker 2: fasibility that would be fun. Like, I'm all for that.
Speaker 2: I think that the one thing about Jade and Daniels
Speaker 2: that you have to ask on that list that Van
Speaker 2: Pelt said is that he made such an emphasis on leadership.
Speaker 2: And I don't know Jayden Daniels, so I don't want
Speaker 2: to like. But based off the speculation, especially in Arizona.
Speaker 1: State, and look, I wasn't there, but most people who
Speaker 1: knock Daniel's leadership ability cite the Arizona State the locker
Speaker 1: video where he announced he was transferring out of a
Speaker 1: program that a lot of players transferred out of because
Speaker 1: it was a mess. He announced he was transferring and
Speaker 1: guys trashed his locker. Yeah, would you really do that
Speaker 1: if you were happy somebody left. No, they were mad
Speaker 1: he left because they knew he was good. They knew
Speaker 1: they were going to win games with him. That is
Speaker 1: not a knock on leadership. That is just being a
Speaker 1: victim of a transfer portal and Herm Edwards running a
Speaker 1: toxic program. There are some other things people will cite,
Speaker 1: but I'm not saying that he's I'm not saying he's
Speaker 1: gonna go out there and be like the ultimate leader
Speaker 1: of men. I'm not saying he's gonna go out there
Speaker 1: and be somebody who is like, Oh, as soon as
Speaker 1: he's done football, he is going to campaign for president.
Speaker 1: But I I do think that that was five years ago,
Speaker 1: much older now. He's been through a lot. Everybody at
Speaker 1: LSU who seems to rave about him, So I don't
Speaker 1: think it was as bad as people painted at Arizona State.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it was perfect, But I also think
Speaker 1: he used his time at Arizona State as a learning
Speaker 1: experience and change. If you can get guys to gravitate
Speaker 1: towards even a Brian Kelly program, you're doing something right.
Speaker 2: He's he's a quiet leader, though, he's like a lead
Speaker 2: by example type of guy from what I understand.
Speaker 1: When you know who was like that by all accounts, mail.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's not a bad thing necessarily it's just
Speaker 2: that that's he's not going to be you know, you're
Speaker 2: not gonna necessarily see Jayden Daniels walking up, down and
Speaker 2: down the sideline yelling at everybody like Tom Brady used
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 1: But he kind of start doing that later and later
Speaker 1: in you know, last Leadership I think is such a
Speaker 1: silly thing because like there's no way to quantify leadership,
Speaker 1: and I think ultimately what it means to me is
Speaker 1: just do guys play for you, like when we look
Speaker 1: when you know the we're not going to necessarily talk
Speaker 1: a ton about the Dynasty because we have plenty of
Speaker 1: you know, p and the Dynasty podcast covers that. But
Speaker 1: like the in the Dynasty, Danny A.
Speaker 2: Mondola had that like famous quote that that's getting or
Speaker 2: making the rounds of you know, we work for Bill,
Speaker 2: but we played for Tom. And you want a quarterback
Speaker 2: that we play for this everything that's what you want.
Speaker 1: Everything that we've heard out of LSU's guys played for
Speaker 1: jam Day. I agree. So I agree.
Speaker 2: I mean, you don't put up the season that he
Speaker 2: just put up with and guy with guys not wrecking
Speaker 2: you very often.
Speaker 1: And look, there's leadership like when I do mine and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a version of the exercise we just
Speaker 1: did and that I'll be up tomorrow ninety eight five
Speaker 1: the sports sub dot Com. Nice plug. Thank you. I'm
Speaker 1: actually not going to include leadership because it is so
Speaker 1: like you're in the locker room. You don't Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you want to include it ended up skewing it. It
Speaker 1: put Pennix over Daniels when you include leadership when you don't,
Speaker 1: Daniels is the guy I will say to your results,
Speaker 1: and I texted you this last night. So this is
Speaker 1: something I believe before we ran through that Michael Pennix
Speaker 1: is more in play than we maybe thought he was.
Speaker 1: I think based on what they say, not necessarily at three.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying they're gonna go take them at three,
Speaker 1: but the way Van Pelt talked about quarterbacks, in my mind,
Speaker 1: I kept going back to Michael Penix. There's no guy,
Speaker 1: there's no better leader in this draft than Michael Pennix.
Speaker 1: There's no better leader, to no guy who's tougher. Yeah
Speaker 1: he has. I mean, we've we talked about this last
Speaker 1: week in terms of scheme fit. There's you're a scheme fit.
Speaker 1: He might be the best and are his mechanics perfect. No,
Speaker 1: I don't think they're as bad as a lot of
Speaker 1: people think they are. I think they're just thrown off
Speaker 1: by the lefty thing. I've compared him to Philip Rivers,
Speaker 1: whose mechanics obviously weren't perfect. But here's my thing with me.
Speaker 2: As long as you're throwing motion is consistent, exactly, it
Speaker 2: doesn't if you throw the ball the same. It's like
Speaker 2: a shooter in basketball, like you might everybody shoots a
Speaker 2: little bit differently. But as long as it's a consistent
Speaker 2: launch point, it's not gonna necessarily.
Speaker 1: So I look at it, and I'm not saying Penis
Speaker 1: is Aaron Rodgers. But the point is, you would never
Speaker 1: teach a quarterback you're starting with like a kid. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you would never teach. You would never on Aaron Rodgers
Speaker 1: and say throw the football like this. No, you'd put
Speaker 1: on Brady and say through the football. Aaron Rodgers one
Speaker 1: of the greatest quarterbacks of all time because it worked
Speaker 1: for him, because it was consistent. Yeah, I worked with
Speaker 1: somebody ones who in scouting kickers, and it's it's similar.
Speaker 1: You can roll your eyes, it's similar to the mechanics.
Speaker 1: What he would do is he would take ten kicks
Speaker 1: and he'd overlay them on a video on transparency, and
Speaker 1: it would look like if the kicker was good, it
Speaker 1: would look like one kick. You wouldn't see deviation. Now,
Speaker 1: quarterbacks a little different because there are times where you're
Speaker 1: gonna change your arm angle or you're gonna try to
Speaker 1: throw off platform. But they're not the prettiest mechanics. But
Speaker 1: it's the same thing every time. It's the same He's
Speaker 1: throwing the ball the same way. And if your motions
Speaker 1: repeatable and you're having success with it. If it's not
Speaker 1: the prettiest thing, if you're making it work, you're making
Speaker 1: it work. And that is what i'd say for people.
Speaker 2: Again, like some of it's because they're both lefties, but like,
Speaker 2: like Tua doesn't have the prettiest throwing mind.
Speaker 1: Well, remember when they flipped the video for Tua and
Speaker 1: everybody was like, what the hell's going on? Why does
Speaker 1: this guy look like a real quarterback? Again? Watch Michael
Speaker 1: Pennock's flip.
Speaker 2: In general, though I do agree with you that Penix
Speaker 2: checks a lot of the boxes that the coaching staff
Speaker 2: yesterday was talking about. Is that gonna align with the
Speaker 2: personnel department, is Elliot Wolf can override everybody because of talent,
Speaker 2: Like that's a different conversation, but certainly experience I think
Speaker 2: goes hand in hand with leadership as well toughness, accuracy,
Speaker 2: decision making. Penix checks a lot of those boxes. But
Speaker 2: we all know that the biggest week of Mike Michael
Speaker 2: Pennox's life is next week in Indianapolis, when they he.
Speaker 1: Doesn't really have to do anything except sable. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I that is literally a difference for Michael Penix and
Speaker 2: millions of dollars of what those doctors tell teams about
Speaker 2: his shoulders and about his knee. So it's gonna be
Speaker 2: fascinating to see the reporting that comes out of the combine.
Speaker 2: So on that note, I just retweeted the Michael Pennock's
Speaker 2: right handed video, so please watch that. Is an Is
Speaker 2: there anything else? I mean, Troy Brown being back on
Speaker 2: the staff, I guess is notable. We don't necessarily know
Speaker 2: his role. Yeah, it's hard to talk about, so it's
Speaker 2: hard to talk about, but those were the main.
Speaker 1: Head I had one other question about the stat Yeah,
Speaker 1: so they bring Bob Bicknell and Tyler Hughes to tight
Speaker 1: ends and wide receivers coaches, respectively. Hugh's been here, Bicknall's
Speaker 1: been coaching football so long. He coached it PU and
Speaker 1: he coached in NFL Europe. So you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: saying those are great things, but that's how long BU
Speaker 1: hasn't had a football program and how long an NFL
Speaker 1: Europe point away. How long ago? So Bignell played tight
Speaker 1: end college. He started off as a tight ends coach.
Speaker 1: He coached titands a little bit, but he's spent the
Speaker 1: better part of the last decade and a half coaching
Speaker 1: wide receivers, and he's coached receivers on teams that had
Speaker 1: good receivers, the Eagles in the mid twenty tens. He's
Speaker 1: with the Niners for a year. Hughes was a general
Speaker 1: assistant here, and he was a general assistant in Washington.
Speaker 1: And I mean, obviously, I Washington had good receivers, and
Speaker 1: I think he worked with receivers here his first time around.
Speaker 1: But Bicknell, to me, is what I wanted them to
Speaker 1: hire in a wide receivers coach. Yeah, and he's coaching
Speaker 1: tight end. And it's something against Tyler Hughes. It's just
Speaker 1: I look at Bicknell's resume, he hasn't coached tight ends
Speaker 1: in thirteen years.
Speaker 2: Well, so I think that the tight end position coach
Speaker 2: is a really important one on your staff because they
Speaker 2: have their hands in so many different things. So I
Speaker 2: think that experience at that spot with multiple positions can
Speaker 2: actually be really helpful because you are in the run
Speaker 2: in the past game meetings, like you have to coach
Speaker 2: your guys up on the run elements and the pass
Speaker 2: elements equally at the tight end position, where as like
Speaker 2: receivers for example, Yeah, I like blocking with receivers is
Speaker 2: a thing, but it's not the most important thing. So
Speaker 2: I think in that element, it's good that bick Nell's
Speaker 2: had experience with various positions. I think it's important because
Speaker 2: he's going to have a hand in both things. In
Speaker 2: terms of the receivers coaches. The way that I see
Speaker 2: Tyler Hughes and Taekwan Underwood, I think Tyler Hughes is
Speaker 2: going to be more of game plan x's and o's
Speaker 2: opponent studying this is what we're gonna do right in
Speaker 2: this week, and this is how we're gonna go forward.
Speaker 2: Taekwon Underwood, I think what they're hoping is gonna you know,
Speaker 2: you know, my guy. The footworking is like he's gonna
Speaker 2: be their own footwork.
Speaker 1: I like the Taekwon Underwood high I really do.
Speaker 2: I think it's you know, there's a lot of really
Speaker 2: good UH receiver coaches around the league, and I know
Speaker 2: it hasn't necessarily worked out with Troy Brown, but in
Speaker 2: general that obviously played, you know, like a Keenan McCardell,
Speaker 2: Shan Jefferson, like those types of guys, and you don't
Speaker 2: necessarily I know, Taekwon Underwood wasn't Randy Moss, Like, you
Speaker 2: don't necessarily need to be a great player to be
Speaker 2: a great coach. I just look at him, and you know,
Speaker 2: I think he's gonna be the guy that's out there
Speaker 2: early drilling releases and drilling top of the route stuff
Speaker 2: and things that are gonna be more technique based with
Speaker 2: these guys, I think when they if they draft the guy,
Speaker 2: which they should, but whenever they draft the guy, you know,
Speaker 2: let's say the first day that that Roman Wilson's on
Speaker 2: on the property, I think the guy that he's gonna
Speaker 2: be working with a lot is Taekwon Underwood. In terms
Speaker 2: of doing the actual movement skill type stuff of playing
Speaker 2: the receiver position, and Tyler Hughes is going to be
Speaker 2: more of a guy that's going to be handling, you know,
Speaker 2: helping Van Pelton mcado with those guys with game plan
Speaker 2: and x's and o's. That's just my hunch, just based
Speaker 2: off of their backgrounds and expertise. But I think Bicknell,
Speaker 2: I think a lot of these guys, you know, Bicknell mcado,
Speaker 2: I think a lot of these guys responsibilities is going
Speaker 2: to be helping to run the offense from a more
Speaker 2: big picture standpoint and a more a game plan oriented standpoint,
Speaker 2: because I don't think Gerard Mayo is gonna is going
Speaker 2: to take on a ton of responsibility in that regard. Offensively,
Speaker 2: I think this is going to be completely Van Pelton
Speaker 2: mcadow's show on the offensive side of the mall. I
Speaker 2: I don't think Mayo is going to have a ton
Speaker 2: of hand in it, which I think is good. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think what's you know. The other thing before we
Speaker 2: started to open the phone lines and talk a little
Speaker 2: bit about the combine as well, the other thing I
Speaker 2: thought was good is that he's it sounds like DeMarcus
Speaker 2: Covington's going to call the defense, so you have a
Speaker 2: first time head coach who's one of the youngest head
Speaker 2: coaches in the NFL, and they are trying to manage
Speaker 2: his responsibilities and manage what's on his plate right out
Speaker 2: of the gate, which I think is a good thing.
Speaker 2: If he had been it had been more than fair
Speaker 2: for him to say, I'm a defensive guy. This is
Speaker 2: my I'm calling the defense, right Demiko ryantce in Houston
Speaker 2: calling the defense. But I think he wants to take
Speaker 2: more of that CEO approach, probably something he learned from Bill,
Speaker 2: and try to be a little bit more of an overseer.
Speaker 2: And I think that's good for a first time head coach.
Speaker 2: I think it's hard to be in your play sheet
Speaker 2: and then also deal with all the other things that
Speaker 2: the defensive coordinator or that the head coach, excuse me,
Speaker 2: he needs to deal with. So I like the fact
Speaker 2: that he's handing off some of those responsibilities. You know,
Speaker 2: obviously Van Pelt was going to call the offense and
Speaker 2: nobody else would, But that DeMarcus Covington's going to call
Speaker 2: the defense, I thought is a good thing as well. Yeah,
Speaker 2: all right, take some of these phone calls. You know,
Speaker 2: some people have been waiting on for a while we
Speaker 2: appreciated Kendall is in North Carolina.
Speaker 1: What's up, Kendall? How you doing.
Speaker 4: I heard y'all talking the first opening segment about this
Speaker 4: game about Van Pelt, what receivers in this draft fit
Speaker 4: his scheme? And my second question is I had a
Speaker 4: chance to look at the Arizona wide receiver Jacob cow
Speaker 4: I believe, and how would he fit with the Patriots?
Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks for the call, Kendall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jacob Caron is at the Senior Bowl, right, I
Speaker 2: remember seeing him again every week now. I think the
Speaker 2: first question what receivers fit?
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: I don't think that it's necessarily such a receiver heavy
Speaker 2: scheme that one receiver wouldn't fit versus another receiver. I
Speaker 2: do think that the one thing that I'm hoping and
Speaker 2: that they're going to get to is, you know, I
Speaker 2: think separation is a little bit of a buzzword around here.
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think that they love that. They were
Speaker 2: filled with Devonte Parkers and Juju Smith Schusters and guys
Speaker 2: that graded out really poorly in terms of top of
Speaker 2: the route separation. So I'm hoping that they're going to
Speaker 2: be a little bit more like that, you know, guys
Speaker 2: like in Cleveland, Amari Cooper, one of the best route
Speaker 2: runners and separators in the NFL. Guy like Elijah Moore,
Speaker 2: who's a speedster, you know, speed slot, kind of like
Speaker 2: a Pop Douglas. I think that those are the types
Speaker 2: of guys that they're gonna look at in this draft.
Speaker 2: But I would I would say that we have to
Speaker 2: talk about it, like blocking is going to be somewhat
Speaker 2: important in this scheme. They're going to run the ball
Speaker 2: a lot, and they're gonna have to be able to
Speaker 2: have guys that block. You know, teams like the Rams
Speaker 2: San Francisco, those teams have great blockers. Now Miami is
Speaker 2: built with speed demons. They don't have great blockers and
Speaker 2: they can still run the ball. So it doesn't have
Speaker 2: to be that way. But that's how I see the
Speaker 2: receiver position. I'm not necessarily thinking that they are going
Speaker 2: to have a certain type of receiver that they say like,
Speaker 2: we need receivers that play this way, because I think
Speaker 2: the scheme is a little bit less dependent on guys
Speaker 2: on the outside and a little bit more dependent on
Speaker 2: obviously the marriage or the run game in the past game,
Speaker 2: but also you know, tight end running back things like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they it's more about overlapped than scheme. And that
Speaker 1: goes to a guy like Jacob Cowing. You're not gonna
Speaker 1: have Jacob Cowing and Pop Douglas on the field at
Speaker 1: the same time. Yeah, it's a good point. And so
Speaker 1: drafting a guy like like getting X get a true Z. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and there there are multiple ways you can go about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: calling for me, he's really small. Yeah, I think he
Speaker 1: checked in at like one sixty something at the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 1: So a guy that's small, who And I I mean,
Speaker 1: I like Colling. I don't want to like say he's
Speaker 1: he's an undrafted player, but.
Speaker 2: He's an interesting you know, same Pop Douglas got drafted
Speaker 2: in the sixth round. But I thought Pop Douglas.
Speaker 1: Well, I think just coming from Arizona. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: probably helps Cawen, like he played in better commense. Yeah,
Speaker 1: five eight, one sixty five. I just think a guy
Speaker 1: that's that's like two two at well size, a guy
Speaker 1: that's that small in a role they already have filled, Yeah,
Speaker 1: doesn't make a lot of sense for them. Yeah. Where
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to take him, which is probably early
Speaker 1: on day three a Senior Bowl.
Speaker 2: I don't think it was great for him, and Pop
Speaker 2: Douglas had a great Shrine Bowl. Yeah, and so I
Speaker 2: think that those are two things that are working against
Speaker 2: Cowen is his size and his performance at the Senior
Speaker 2: Bowl where his size showed up. It was he was
Speaker 2: having issues, you know, getting off physical coverage and stuff
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, a guy at that size the draw with
Speaker 1: him as Wes, he catches everything, and he had some
Speaker 1: issues with drops. Yeah, yeah, all right. Devon is in Florida.
Speaker 1: What's up, Devin?
Speaker 6: Hey, how you guys doing today?
Speaker 1: Good? Thanks?
Speaker 6: All right? So I had two questions. My first question was, Von, sorry,
Speaker 6: it's all good if you guys, if the Patriots end
Speaker 6: up missing out on Drake Man they end up drafting
Speaker 6: Jaden Daniels, do you feel like, uh, his ability to
Speaker 6: throw into the intermediate middle part of the field will
Speaker 6: be a problem developing. And my second question was, how
Speaker 6: would you feel if the Patriots found a way to
Speaker 6: pry Brandon?
Speaker 7: I you Gotto's difference?
Speaker 2: Yeah, good, two good questions. I think the biggest thing
Speaker 2: with Jayden Daniels that I see on film with him
Speaker 2: is he passes up some things in the middle of
Speaker 2: the field that are maybe like the second and third
Speaker 2: read in the progression to run. And he's such a
Speaker 2: dynamic runner that I've put up plays before on Twitter
Speaker 2: where he might pass up a dig route and then
Speaker 2: he runs for forty five yards and nobody cares right like,
Speaker 2: you're just like all right whatever. But the problem is
Speaker 2: is that you know, twofold one in the NFL, those
Speaker 2: scramble yards are gonna be less like You're gonna get
Speaker 2: caught faster in the NFL than you are in college.
Speaker 2: So the forty five yard run in the NFL might
Speaker 2: only be a fifteen yard run, right, you know, follow me.
Speaker 2: And then the second thing is is when you run
Speaker 2: that much, the body blows start to add up.
Speaker 1: You take a beat it.
Speaker 2: And I my biggest concern with Jaden Daniels as a
Speaker 2: prospect is that is he going to be able to
Speaker 2: get there as a passer where he can beat you
Speaker 2: simply from the pocket with his arm. And this was
Speaker 2: the issue with Justin Fields, like he hasn't gotten there yet.
Speaker 2: Justin Fields is uber talented, good runner, strong arm probably
Speaker 2: has a better arm and more arm talent than Jaden
Speaker 2: Daniels does, but he has not been able to take
Speaker 2: that next step as a pocket passer where his running
Speaker 2: ability is like an extra, It's like a sprinkle on top.
Speaker 2: Lamar Jackson got there. Lamar Jackson's running ability is his superpower,
Speaker 2: but he can also beat you from the pocket. That's
Speaker 2: why is the MVP of the league. Those are the
Speaker 2: two comparisons I have for Jaden Daniels. That's his floor
Speaker 2: and his ceiling. So are they going to be able
Speaker 2: to develop a guy like Jaden Daniels into that next
Speaker 2: phase of his passing ability is going to determine whether
Speaker 2: or not he can be a consistently good thrower, and
Speaker 2: that will determine everything with his career, because I don't
Speaker 2: think he's going to make it in a ten year
Speaker 2: fifteen year career playing the way he does now because
Speaker 2: it not not just because he runs so much, but
Speaker 2: also how he runs like he cannot like he I
Speaker 2: mentioned Wiley Coyote earlier, like he he runs like like
Speaker 2: a crazy person, Like he runs like he's Josh Allen,
Speaker 2: but he's not Josh Allen's size, right, So those body
Speaker 2: blows are going to catch up to him, and that's
Speaker 2: where the passing comes from. I think the other thing
Speaker 2: that that gives me pause about Jayden Daniels too. I'm
Speaker 2: interested to hear your your thoughts on this. So many
Speaker 2: much of his production came from throwing fade routes to
Speaker 2: Malik Neighbors and Brian Thomas, and those two guys are
Speaker 2: going to get drafted in the probably top twenty, top
Speaker 2: twenty five picks. Milik Daghbors might be a top five
Speaker 2: pick in this draft, so he's not going to be
Speaker 2: able to replicate that necessarily. Now, Joe Burrow didn't matter,
Speaker 2: right like Jamar Chase justin Jefferson, he had all world
Speaker 2: receivers and he got to the NFL and he got well,
Speaker 2: well yeah, but you know what I'm saying, Like it
Speaker 2: mostly didn't matter, but some guys that does matter for
Speaker 2: I think, you know, there's so many triggering qualities from
Speaker 2: f Jaden Daniels, but it's our job to tell you
Speaker 2: both sides at the coin with every single player, right,
Speaker 2: and I think that those are the two things that
Speaker 2: hold me back the most with him.
Speaker 1: I think I've said this before. If you're gonna knock
Speaker 1: quarterbacks for having an outstanding surrounding cast, then you're taking
Speaker 1: Drake may or you're not taking a quarterback that's just
Speaker 1: that's in the nil are And I even think I've
Speaker 1: kind of come around on this take, and this will
Speaker 1: become for the people who don't really follow college football,
Speaker 1: this will become a lot clearer next year. Yeah, Drake
Speaker 1: May's supporting cast was not nearly as bad as we've
Speaker 1: made it out to be. They're just all underclassmens, so
Speaker 1: they're not in the draft this year, guys like Omar
Speaker 1: and Hampton. The running back Bryson.
Speaker 2: To be fair to him, though it's nowhere near what
Speaker 2: it's nowhere Well Daniels and Pennex were playing.
Speaker 1: Wait till you watch Bryson nesbit next year. He's not
Speaker 1: Aroma Dune, a league name. But here's my point, Like,
Speaker 1: if you're gonna fault the quarterback for the surrounding cast,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna find it's not so much faulting him
Speaker 1: for the supporting cast. It's just the type of throws
Speaker 1: that he was, you know, like making well. But that's
Speaker 1: what I would say is a deep ball works when
Speaker 1: Milk Neighbors is five yards behind him, So then go
Speaker 1: out and get a deep ball receiver. Like that's what
Speaker 1: you do for your young quarterback. You build around him. Again,
Speaker 1: that's not a dirty thing. You don't go out and
Speaker 1: surround Jane Daniels to slot receivers. Yeah, and that's not
Speaker 1: saying you can't have a slot receiver, but you don't
Speaker 1: go out and surround with guys. You don't run routes
Speaker 1: past fifteen yards. You don't run anything past a five route.
Speaker 1: I agree with you. So it's I mean, it's a
Speaker 1: fair question. Yeah, like all right, but but I think
Speaker 1: you're phrasing it wrong. It's not what's gonna happen when
Speaker 1: he doesn't have Milik Neighbors to throw fade balls to.
Speaker 1: It's who do we get Jaydan Daniels to throw the
Speaker 1: fade ball to? Because that's one of his best throws. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's how and that could be that is his best throw.
Speaker 2: Right the heath drops more dimes on So I would
Speaker 2: say back to you, dis are his bread and butter.
Speaker 1: So I would say back to you, I mean, we'll
Speaker 1: take Harrison out because you're in in Neighbors and Odoonsay
Speaker 1: and Thomas obviously, but right free agency in the draft,
Speaker 1: who are the best fade receivers? I know? Was it
Speaker 1: aighty Mitchell we were talking about last week Adie Mitchell's
Speaker 1: are really good. I think Adie Mitchell is going to
Speaker 1: be more like a possession receiver. And who was it
Speaker 1: you were talking? You said about somebody who were like,
Speaker 1: he sells every route as a fade route. Oh, probably
Speaker 1: a dude's say he's really okay, So maybe it wasn't
Speaker 1: like and Ady Mitchell I think is good at that too.
Speaker 1: Who's the best fade receiver in the draft or give
Speaker 1: me the best fade receiver in the draft, Give me
Speaker 1: the best fade receiver in free agency, best fade receiver
Speaker 1: in the draft outside outside of like the guys they
Speaker 1: could get if they get Jane Daniels Xavier Worthy. Okay,
Speaker 1: I would say, but he.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of overlap there with Pop Douglas certainly,
Speaker 2: but in terms of what about like Jam Polk, Yeah,
Speaker 2: but Jalen Polk does it with more like skill at
Speaker 2: the catch point. You know, he's not like necessarily fast
Speaker 2: enough to create a ton of vertical separation, but he's
Speaker 2: he's got the strongest hands, some of the strongest hands
Speaker 2: in this class. I hate I don't want to like
Speaker 2: be hyper bowl. It can be like everybody is so great,
Speaker 2: but he is really really strong hands and great at
Speaker 2: the catch point. So he wins more like that in
Speaker 2: in terms. But I'm not saying it's totally contested, but
Speaker 2: it's like more through traffic.
Speaker 1: All right, how about in free agency? That's a good question.
Speaker 2: Because this is not really like a it's in terms
Speaker 2: of that skill set, it's not really a fab class
Speaker 2: Calvin Ridley. Calvin Ridley's definitely got the speed to be
Speaker 2: that type of guy, but he I always think of
Speaker 2: Calvin Ridley as more like an inbreaker guy like crossers,
Speaker 2: dig routes, things like that. The other guy I would
Speaker 2: just mention in the draft is Troy Franklin just because
Speaker 2: of his speed. He's more of like an outside the
Speaker 2: numbers fade receiver than the slot fade. But I don't
Speaker 2: see why he couldn't run a slot fade again. And
Speaker 2: this is this is what we talked about earlier, having
Speaker 2: a plan. If you're going to draft Jaydan Daniels, you
Speaker 2: identify it and.
Speaker 1: You see it's a vertical system. For sure, you're going
Speaker 1: to push the ball down, but but you identify if
Speaker 1: you're Van Pelton, I mean, I don't you're better at
Speaker 1: this than me? Like I don't were they overly vertical
Speaker 1: heavy in Cleveland or.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially when they transition to Flacco obviously, but in general,
Speaker 2: that is a it's a vertical passing system based off
Speaker 2: of the run game. So so they're not trying to
Speaker 2: not to cut you off, but they're not trying to
Speaker 2: like pull a guard to get a linebacker to step
Speaker 2: up so that they can throw a crossing route at
Speaker 2: the second level. They're trying to get like single high safety,
Speaker 2: draw everybody in, and then throw a post fit high
Speaker 2: play Madden.
Speaker 1: So then yeah, so this is what we talked about
Speaker 1: the plane. If you're gonna draft Jan Daniels, this is
Speaker 1: his best throw, you identify the receivers that are best
Speaker 1: on the other end of that, and you go out
Speaker 1: and get them. Yeah, that that would be my response
Speaker 1: to that. And they're not gonna be Thelik Neighbors and
Speaker 1: brown House, and maybe you don't get them this year.
Speaker 1: You know who's really great on the fade balls is
Speaker 1: Luthor Burden. I don't know if you're sick of me
Speaker 1: talking about this guy yet or if you remember who
Speaker 1: he is.
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to think of a free agency because
Speaker 2: free agency is you know, I mentioned Ridley's like a
Speaker 2: pure z to me, Like he's a guy that is
Speaker 2: gonna really want me to just give you the ranking
Speaker 2: goes in the middle of the field.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hang on, I gotta find a wide receiver here
Speaker 1: that tught my. Let's have Chris Jones. I don't think
Speaker 1: you want Chris Jones running fades. Probably could T Higgins
Speaker 1: more of a jump. I mean, yeah, you could make
Speaker 1: T Higgins work with jayde Daniels, but it all looks different. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Michael Pittman, No, no, yeah, he's not Mike Evans.
Speaker 2: I mean in his own way, but again, more like
Speaker 2: T Higgins. Hollywood Brown, Yeah, Hollywood Brown definitely could. I
Speaker 2: I like Hollywood Brown more than most people because you know,
Speaker 2: I like the speed guys. But playing through contact is
Speaker 2: obviously he's he's not tough, Like that's not enough to.
Speaker 1: Go out to get a true big X to take that.
Speaker 1: I would say that, Yeah, I mean I I would.
Speaker 1: Calvin Ridley talked to it drops off man. Darnell Mooney, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Darnhill Mooney is honestly pretty good at that. Like that's
Speaker 1: probably the one thing that Darnell Mooney does at like
Speaker 1: a decently high level. So like I know people want
Speaker 1: more than Darnell Mooney, but I'm just saying, like, you
Speaker 1: bring him up and so. But but this is what
Speaker 1: I'm talking about earlier with the with where Van Pelt's
Speaker 1: talking about with maximizing players. I'm not saying Darnell Mooney
Speaker 1: is your big addition. Right. Maybe you add a Calvin Ridley, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: but they don't know. Mooney is just like Pop Douglas
Speaker 1: with a little bit more size. But you you add
Speaker 1: Darnell Mooney maybe, and I mean PFF estimates him one year,
Speaker 1: nine million dollars. Easy. Yeah, you add Darnell Mooney is
Speaker 1: like your second or third wide receiver edition. And if
Speaker 1: you know you're drafting Jane Daniels and you say, all right,
Speaker 1: you know he's gonna play fifty some percent of the time,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna just have him running a bunch of vades, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because that's a throw.
Speaker 2: I kind of like Darnell Mooney. Like Darnell Mooney reminds
Speaker 2: me of like a poor man's Tyler lock it to
Speaker 2: be one guy good at you know, vertical slot.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he still comments and he just
Speaker 1: comments about other stuff because I don't remember what like
Speaker 1: his username was, But do you remember that guy is
Speaker 1: like around this time last year who used to comment
Speaker 1: on every one of our shows that Darnell Mooney was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: they hitting Tyreek Hill or whatever. Yeah, and was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: if they get Darnell Mooney, they have a wide receiver one.
Speaker 1: So shout out to that guy if he still listens. Uh,
Speaker 1: Gabe Davis no outside vertical receiver obviously, Yeah, Odell, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna for other reasons, I'm going to pass on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Tyler Boyd, Curtis Samuel who I know you like. But actually,
Speaker 1: and then I get to Kendrick bort how about the
Speaker 1: guys here as fade receivers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, you know, in terms of separation, Pop is
Speaker 2: obviously the best one. Yeah, He's definitely the guy that
Speaker 2: can do that. I mean, I've I've given up on Taekwon.
Speaker 2: I've hyped Taekwon enough and gotten burned by it. So
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna expect anything out of Taekwon Thorton. But
Speaker 2: obviously his body type, his speed, It's it's not in
Speaker 2: terms of like what he does well. He obviously has
Speaker 2: that in his bag of getting vertical. That's the only
Speaker 2: thing he does well, so like, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, there's that. Yeah, the other guys though, you know
Speaker 1: not remember he had his breakout game against the Browns,
Speaker 1: his breakout game two touchdowns. But yeah, okay, so you
Speaker 1: have to go into the draft. I'm looking at an
Speaker 1: exerous class. Now, so many good fade runners in here.
Speaker 1: Nobody you want to feel, you want to feel old?
Speaker 1: Who moves in Muhammed the third? Oh that's crazy, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say that.
Speaker 2: You know, I love Xavier I have him ranked pretty high,
Speaker 2: probably higher than most people. I think he's my wide
Speaker 2: receiver six in this draft, behind you know, the first
Speaker 2: the top four, Thomas being the fourth guy in Troy Franklin,
Speaker 2: who I'm probably maybe a little bit higher on than
Speaker 2: people too. I really like Xavier Worthy. I think that,
Speaker 2: you know, thirty four is a spot that you probably
Speaker 2: could get Xavier Worthy.
Speaker 1: Now is that a little high?
Speaker 2: If you take the quarterback and then receiver then tackles
Speaker 2: an issue you know who knows well.
Speaker 1: Again, they're not gonna be able to have a perfect offseason, right,
Speaker 1: there's too much and maybe maybe you attack, maybe you
Speaker 1: keep on when you sign Tyron Smith and then yeah,
Speaker 1: Polk is a good shout too.
Speaker 2: Though, like you know, not not He's not as fast
Speaker 2: as Xavier Worthy as obviously in a straight line. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but he definitely that's how he wins, you know, is
Speaker 2: those types of what we've talked about.
Speaker 1: Who's your comment for him again? Uh, Jayden Reid right,
Speaker 1: Green Bay?
Speaker 2: So yeah, who's Yeah, he's not as fast as Jayden Reid,
Speaker 2: but in terms of the routes that he has, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just.
Speaker 1: Bring up him and we go back to talking about
Speaker 1: them wanting to land or us thinking that like Michael
Speaker 1: Pannix is the guy they want to land. Also know
Speaker 1: you have Tyler Hughes here. It's like people ask all
Speaker 1: the time, are you who are pairing quarterbacks and receiver?
Speaker 1: That would be an interesting.
Speaker 2: Good time to that that I gotta talk to Tyler.
Speaker 2: He was at some point about the Washington guys, like,
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's obvious, Like that's a really good thing.
Speaker 2: And you know, Taekwon Underwood was just in college too.
Speaker 2: I know it's just that pit but like he he
Speaker 2: was just in college. Yeah, Sad Jordanas's and yeah he
Speaker 2: counts the pit guy because he sucked you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that Taekwon Underwood was there for
Speaker 1: I think they were like technically there together for because
Speaker 1: I think he hasn't Underwood been there for like three years.
Speaker 1: Hang on, I'm pulling it up. I because I said
Speaker 1: this the other day on the radio and I realized
Speaker 1: I didn't have the timeline exactly right. I think they
Speaker 1: were there together for like he was still working out
Speaker 1: at Pitt while he was in the transfer portal got
Speaker 1: it and Underwood. Yeah, so Underwood got to Pitt. Underwood
Speaker 1: was hired by Pitt and Jim Nanuary of twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: and Addison transferred to USC in May of twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: So it's just a couple of months. But there is
Speaker 1: a I'm trying to find there is a Jordan Addison
Speaker 1: quote somewhere about Taekwon Underwood. So cool thing about Taekwon
Speaker 1: Underwood real quick. So Taekwon Underwood.
Speaker 2: Rutgers, Yep, Rutgers guy was roommates at Rutgers with Devin McCarty. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so that that connection is when he was here
Speaker 2: in twenty eleven for a little bit.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: You know, Devin mccorty and Gerrod Mayer were obviously really close.
Speaker 2: So that's how you get to the you know, six
Speaker 2: degrees of separation that brought Taekwon Underwood back to New England.
Speaker 2: All right, let's get back to the phones here. We
Speaker 2: got a Trevor in Kansas City. What's up, Trevor, trev
Speaker 2: Are you there?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Gotcha?
Speaker 3: Sorry, cut out for a second.
Speaker 1: All good.
Speaker 3: Hey, I've got two questions. I'll be fast and i'll
Speaker 3: take them off their The first one you're probably not
Speaker 3: gonna want to answer, Evan, but I'm curious to know
Speaker 3: your guy thoughts on Cody Schrader in his fit in
Speaker 3: the Patriots offense from Kansas City. So I watched a
Speaker 3: lot of the Zoo football. And then second kind of
Speaker 3: talking about Michael Pennock's fun. You just brought him up.
Speaker 3: He's my quarterback one if you take away the injuries.
Speaker 3: And honestly, I know you can't take him away, but
Speaker 3: I you know, I don't know what I don't know,
Speaker 3: and I haven't heard any other reason we shouldn't take
Speaker 3: him at three besides injuries.
Speaker 8: So I'd love to hear your guys thoughts on that.
Speaker 3: I'll take it off the air.
Speaker 5: Thanks Gg.
Speaker 2: Thanks for the call, Trevor. So obviously, no one's taking
Speaker 2: Michael Pennox in the top ten because of the injuries.
Speaker 2: Even if you get to clean bill health of the combine,
Speaker 2: it's not happening.
Speaker 1: Just that that history makes it so tough. Yeah.
Speaker 2: In terms of his play, I think the biggest thing
Speaker 2: is is that in hindsight of the National Championship game,
Speaker 2: one thing that I did was I went back and
Speaker 2: watched some other pennis games again, because I would encourage
Speaker 2: people to do.
Speaker 1: I wanted to.
Speaker 2: Look and see was this just because Michigan's defense is
Speaker 2: just dominant and he was flustered by the pressure because
Speaker 2: he's playing Michigan's defense, or was this an issue that
Speaker 2: was you know, under the surface because he was so
Speaker 2: good at you know, the rest of the way. I
Speaker 2: think that there are some legitimate concerns about how he
Speaker 2: handles pressure.
Speaker 1: That's his big knock. Yeah, he's not great under pressure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when I I don't necessarily like some people
Speaker 2: fear like his mobility. I think that he can move around, right,
Speaker 2: I don't have concerns about that. I think that decision
Speaker 2: making and especially accuracy under pressure is a concern. He
Speaker 2: threw a bad pick under pressure against Oregon too, you know,
Speaker 2: just moving off his spot, resetting and throwing down the
Speaker 2: field with the accuracy was a big knock for him,
Speaker 2: and he's only going to see more of that in
Speaker 2: the NFL. We know how that goes around here. If
Speaker 2: you can't if you can't handle pressure and be poised
Speaker 2: under pressure in terms of your accuracy and decision making,
Speaker 2: that's tough in the NFL because these pass rushers are
Speaker 2: not going to let you off the hook.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's outside of the injuries. The biggest knock on
Speaker 1: him everything you just said, is that when he gets
Speaker 1: rushers in his face, he gets a little sped up times. Now,
Speaker 1: he's good at not he's good at snapping out of it.
Speaker 1: In that if he's pressured early, even if the pressure
Speaker 1: some guys that they're pressured early, even if the pressure
Speaker 1: comes up stops late, they still continue to act pressured
Speaker 1: because they're their internal clocks off. With Pennix, it's very
Speaker 1: play to play. I don't think you ever really see it.
Speaker 1: We're like, he'll get pressured early in the game, late
Speaker 1: in the game, the team will back off and he
Speaker 1: just kind of goes back to being himself. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's encouraging, but the pressure is a real concern, and
Speaker 1: you have you draft him. I think off they need
Speaker 1: offensive line one way or the other. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: they don't. They need to defense, like I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: That's where it's You signed Tyron Smith, you signed Mike
Speaker 1: and Winne, and you took a guy in the top
Speaker 1: one hundred. Yeah, kind of kind of investment in the
Speaker 1: offense line. Cody Schrader to the other point, I am
Speaker 1: a running back. Yeah, he's the running back for Missouri.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much Missouri. Well, you watched him
Speaker 1: on Foster's you must have been exposed him a little bit.
Speaker 1: Probably just didn't pay attention. Really interesting. So he played
Speaker 1: four years at the D two level and was kind
Speaker 1: of a backup. I think he sort of broke through.
Speaker 1: I can get his stats real quick. Yeah, he played
Speaker 1: four years at the D two level, only one as
Speaker 1: a starter. Truman State transferred to Missouri, had a solid
Speaker 1: year and twenty two and then last year came back.
Speaker 1: Was a team captain, unanimous All American, ran for sixteen
Speaker 1: hundred yards, like highly highly productive, tough tackle. And he's
Speaker 1: not a big guy. He's five nine two fourteen. He
Speaker 1: was I have the number somewhere. He was like top
Speaker 1: ten according to PFF and broken tackles. So I have
Speaker 1: for a guy that size.
Speaker 2: I have two running back takes, and one of them
Speaker 2: I think is really going to surprise you in the draft.
Speaker 2: Dylan Lobby and Dowan Edwards from Georgia and my guys.
Speaker 2: I like both guy I like and I like the
Speaker 2: Is it the kid from Baylor? Is it not Baylor?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'll think I'll think of it in
Speaker 1: a second, but those are those two guys on day
Speaker 1: three or my guys right now? Okay at TCU, Monti, Bailey, No,
Speaker 1: I'll think of it in a second, all right. The
Speaker 1: thing to me with Lobby and I like him as
Speaker 1: a player. I really like him as a player. I
Speaker 1: like Louby. Does that role exist in Alex vand Pelt's offense?
Speaker 2: The spread back? It's not so much that I don't.
Speaker 2: I see him as a guy that can play in
Speaker 2: like a sub package back role that's not just third
Speaker 2: down like. I think he can be like a true
Speaker 2: sub back, you know more maybe in like a Rex
Speaker 2: Burkehead type of way than like a James White type
Speaker 2: of And I think that that could exist, especially if
Speaker 2: they draft Jaden Daniels and they're more gun heavy and
Speaker 2: that's how they run there. They're gonna need sort of
Speaker 2: that speed spread. You know, we're gonna spread the field
Speaker 2: out and gash you down the hill like they're gonna
Speaker 2: need the back that can get downhill like that like
Speaker 2: Lobby can in a hurry. Edwards, I was really impressed
Speaker 2: with Marshall Lloyd from USC you know, fight on.
Speaker 1: He's really good. He's gonna end up being top one hundred. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's awesome, really good, right back, Jalen, right now, Tennessee.
Speaker 1: I'll look it up in a second.
Speaker 2: The one thing that I I this is bothering you,
Speaker 2: isn't it?
Speaker 1: Is you actually like a running back? I need to
Speaker 1: know who it is. Who was it? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know who I'm thinking of, and my brain
Speaker 1: is broken right now? Is he the SIOL? I think so? Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know where else I would have seen him.
Speaker 2: All right, I'll look it up in a second, I promise,
Speaker 2: really really quickly. On the running backs, this is gonna
Speaker 2: blow you away.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm kind of four of going after a running
Speaker 1: back in free agency.
Speaker 2: I kind of am too, because this is a loaded
Speaker 2: free agency class at running back Derrick Henry Josh Jacobs.
Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait, I thought you meant like giving
Speaker 1: some guy one year three million. No, no, no, no, I'm
Speaker 1: serious about this. Derrick Henry, Josh Jacobs, Saquon Barkley, Tony Pollard,
Speaker 1: Austin Eckler, DeAndre Swift. Those are the top six I
Speaker 1: think in free agency. Okay, they want to run the ball.
Speaker 1: They can't go into another year where they have two
Speaker 1: running backs. It's not it's not feasible.
Speaker 2: And I think that there's a really good argument to
Speaker 2: be made that this this could be an old Bella check.
Speaker 2: And I know he's not here anymore, but maybe one
Speaker 2: thing that they do hold over a zig where everybody
Speaker 2: else is zagging. Like all these running backs are hitting
Speaker 2: free agency. Nobody wants to pay running backs, which tells
Speaker 2: me that someone is going to be cheap on this
Speaker 2: on the market.
Speaker 1: Not the projected contracts from PFF.
Speaker 2: I think the projected you can tell me. But the
Speaker 2: projected contracts I think are gonna end up being too high.
Speaker 1: Barkley three years twelve per Oh, Bucky Irving, That's who
Speaker 1: I was thinking. Oh, I like Bucky Irving, Oregon, Yeah, whatever,
Speaker 1: I like Bucky ir Bucky, he's kind of come to
Speaker 1: me more change of pace back? Yeah on this list? Sorry? Uh,
Speaker 1: Bucky Irving in the draft, didn't Why do I think
Speaker 1: he went back to school? Did he? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I saw him in a mock draft, like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: he is in the draft. Yeah, yeah, it's weird. He's
Speaker 1: not on our big board, all right? True? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: oh because his name's his real name's Marquise That's why
Speaker 1: he's listed as Marquee serving. He's projected top one hundred pick.
Speaker 1: How much do you like him? Not that much, but
Speaker 1: I just like his play. I like all right, No,
Speaker 1: I like him too. I forgot that Bucky's not a
Speaker 1: really back.
Speaker 2: But I think that there is a real chance that
Speaker 2: running backs, especially some of the free agent I'm blown
Speaker 2: away this is, I know, because I think that there's
Speaker 2: a real chance that those guys are going to be
Speaker 2: extremely undervalued because all the nerds like me are telling
Speaker 2: you not to pay running backs. So I'm not saying
Speaker 2: to pay a guy ten million dollars a year. But
Speaker 2: let's say they we get to free agency and like
Speaker 2: Austin Eckler is available for like six million bucks, like
Speaker 2: Zeke was last year. Right, you know, I'm all for that.
Speaker 2: I think pairing. I would like ideally to pair Ramandre
Speaker 2: Stevenson with like a thunder and lightning type speed. So
Speaker 2: I look at it, and I say, Tony Pollard Austin
Speaker 2: Eckler like those.
Speaker 1: You look at what Cleveland had last year, Nick Chubb,
Speaker 1: the last few years Nick Chub, kareem Hunt. They put
Speaker 1: together a true all right, So Barkley three years twelve
Speaker 1: per yeah, no, alright, twenty guaranteed, Josh Jacobs projected three
Speaker 1: years eleven per eleven and a half per Nope out
Speaker 1: Derrick Henry two years ten per ten per year for
Speaker 1: thirty year old, thirteen million guaranteed twenty total food. No,
Speaker 1: I would absolutely do that. No, that thirteen million guaranteed
Speaker 1: on a two year contract way too much. It's like
Speaker 1: six and a half what they pay Zeke.
Speaker 2: I think it's a combination. But like I just said,
Speaker 2: like that's you have. Now you just have two bulldozers
Speaker 2: like what.
Speaker 1: Like all right? Fine?
Speaker 7: Uh?
Speaker 1: Pollard three years eight per yes, Eckler two six point
Speaker 1: seven per one hundred percent. Yes. Swift really interests me
Speaker 1: because I just think he fits that style. Three years
Speaker 1: six point two per.
Speaker 2: I love the idea, and I know that he had
Speaker 2: a down year last year, So I like gravitate a
Speaker 2: little bit more towards Tony Pollard because I think he's
Speaker 2: a little younger. Tony Pollard had a down year last
Speaker 2: year with Dallas as the as the work course, like
Speaker 2: he was supposed to be the lead back they moved
Speaker 2: on from Zeke. But the year before that, when he
Speaker 2: was like in a tandem with Zeke, he was the
Speaker 2: better back.
Speaker 1: Excellent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I wonder if he's more of like
Speaker 2: one hundred hundred and twenty five touch guy versus a
Speaker 2: two hundred touch guy, Like does that help him? And
Speaker 2: he just exploits with Thermandra, I could see that it's
Speaker 2: a thunder and light. Look, I think they need to
Speaker 2: draft a running back because Ramandre's in a contract year
Speaker 2: and you can't unless maybe that I'm saying, like, obviously,
Speaker 2: everm Andre, give Tony Pollard like a two year deal
Speaker 2: at a reasonable contract, and you draft a running back
Speaker 2: in the sixth round, you know, like to round it
Speaker 2: out like that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: Well, that would be that's about where Cody Schrader is
Speaker 1: supposed to go, and he'd be a really good compliment
Speaker 1: for those.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just draft a younger guy. Maybe Kevin Harris
Speaker 2: is another guy that could be like the fourth back
Speaker 2: in that committee, right, and the third back would be
Speaker 2: somebody that you draft.
Speaker 1: I am surprised, Okay, I am.
Speaker 2: My whole take in free agency, and then I do
Speaker 2: want to get to the combine. We have some more
Speaker 2: calls to get to too. My whole take in free
Speaker 2: agency is that I want to pay talent. I don't
Speaker 2: want to pay Nelson Aguilar and John Smith, right, I
Speaker 2: want to just because those guys play positions of need
Speaker 2: that are bigger on your board. If running back is
Speaker 2: deep in free agency and you have seventy five million
Speaker 2: dollars in free agency to spend, pay a running back.
Speaker 2: If all these defensive linemen and edge rushers that are
Speaker 2: going to be free agents, that are studs. If some
Speaker 2: of the a lot of these guys don't get tagged
Speaker 2: and they actually hit unrestricted free agency, go give a
Speaker 2: bag to Brian Burns, you know, go give a bag
Speaker 2: that idea I love, Go give it.
Speaker 1: You know you know who I really want? Who Josh Allen? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the other Josh Allen, right, No, the like the Josh
Speaker 1: Allen the good one. Oh god, that's not fair, the
Speaker 1: one that's been a problem. Okay, do you know who
Speaker 1: I really want? Lagarious Need?
Speaker 2: I would back up the Brings truck if I could
Speaker 2: have Christian Gonzalez and Lagarious Need for the next four
Speaker 2: to five years in the secondary.
Speaker 1: All for that? All right, since we're just randomly throwing
Speaker 1: out free agents at this point, which is fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: somebody was the ESPN or PFF. Somebody put Christian Wilkins.
Speaker 5: Ina.
Speaker 1: I love that fit too. I mean that you're you're
Speaker 1: running a different defense. Now, are you two gapping with
Speaker 1: Christian Wilkins and Christian Barmore? No? No, I think you could.
Speaker 2: But I don't think that they're necessarily like pigeonholed to
Speaker 2: one thing, you know, like up the field players. But
Speaker 2: last year in Fangio's system, he's playing gap in a half,
Speaker 2: which is similar to to gapping.
Speaker 1: So it's possible.
Speaker 2: I think that Christian Wilkins, like that's we're talking in
Speaker 2: free agency. I'd like talent grab right, Like Christian Wilkins
Speaker 2: is a great player. Make you'll figure it out. Yeah,
Speaker 2: local Christian Wilkins. But if oh god, if they got
Speaker 2: if they got Sneid and Christian Gonzales as their perimeter corners.
Speaker 1: That way you're gonna say they got Stephen christ Jones.
Speaker 1: That would be absolutely terrifying. Like I don't know how
Speaker 1: like you can play pressman to man for four quarters
Speaker 1: with those two guys. Let me give you again, Well,
Speaker 1: we're thrown out names because obviously it didn't end here.
Speaker 1: Great for him, but it's a new coach and maybe
Speaker 1: to bring gilmore he's still played pretty well as he's
Speaker 1: all right, he's he doesn't have I'm not saying it
Speaker 1: like the same. Let's say, but he's fine. You're not
Speaker 1: gonna sign Lugerious Sneed and Christian Wilkins, Like that's just
Speaker 1: too many assets on defense and what are you doing
Speaker 1: a tackle? And why not? That's probably you're probably talking
Speaker 1: at thirty thirty five million dollars. Yeah, but you know
Speaker 1: how contract structures work. That's true. Okay, I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: like Stefan Gilmour is like a bridge corner. I've always
Speaker 1: liked the idea of Steph coming back here. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I don't hate that. The other valuable part of that,
Speaker 1: it's just one year. Get Steph in the classroom. With Christianzalez.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I don't hate that at all. I don't
Speaker 2: hate that at all. If that's the route that they
Speaker 2: decided to go, I don't. I don't love the offensive
Speaker 2: players in free agency. I'm gonna be honest. I hate
Speaker 2: the tackles. I think all the tackles.
Speaker 1: I hate the tackles. But I also think they've put
Speaker 1: themselves in a position at that position where they can't
Speaker 1: be picky.
Speaker 2: Okay, but the pro is that like so many of
Speaker 2: those guys don't even stay on the field. So like
Speaker 2: that that's my bigger concern. It's one thing if oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: if they were going to bring in a tackle, because
Speaker 2: they just have to bring in a veteran tackle, and yeah,
Speaker 2: he's probably more like a C plus player than like
Speaker 2: a true blue chip tackle. You're not gonna find the
Speaker 2: blue chip tackle in free agency. Most likely they don't
Speaker 2: come available. That's fine.
Speaker 1: So you're out on Tyron Smith as like a bridge guy.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I also just don't see Tyrann Like why
Speaker 2: at this point of Tyron Smith's career is he leaving
Speaker 2: Dallas money? They they'd pay their players in Dallas, I know,
Speaker 2: but aren't they trying to like reconfigure der line. Wasn't
Speaker 2: there something that like they're gonna try to move on
Speaker 2: from him?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: Maybe, I He's probably the one guy that I would say, okay, Like,
Speaker 2: you know, he's obviously an upgrade.
Speaker 1: He's thirty four, he's not forty. No, you sign like
Speaker 1: a two year deal heavy, heavily away the guaranteed money
Speaker 1: in the first year, and it just buys you a
Speaker 1: year of tackle essentially. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean I also like Jonah Williams, Like just as
Speaker 2: a player, I think that that, you know, he's a
Speaker 2: fine player. But like last year in free agency with tackles,
Speaker 2: you know, I would have been okay with overplaying a
Speaker 2: little bit for McGlen cheek. We talked about this at
Speaker 2: nauseum last year. I would have been over okay with but.
Speaker 1: Soto sign one Draft one.
Speaker 2: I would have been okay with doing that. But this
Speaker 2: class in the tackles in this class are not on
Speaker 2: that level. Like those guys all were like like I
Speaker 2: just said, like C plus B minus players. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: they all stayed on the field and they played right
Speaker 2: like they were all right.
Speaker 1: You know that you could count on those guys this
Speaker 1: this group, like Mackai Beckton Jones. I would rather they
Speaker 1: not have to go to tackle for free agency. That
Speaker 1: obviously means you're using a top fifty pick in the
Speaker 1: draft on a tackle and bringing back Mike Go and Wuenu.
Speaker 1: The only two positions that excite me on offense and
Speaker 1: free agency running back, which we talked about in tight end. Yeah,
Speaker 1: tight end does excite me as well, especially because you've
Speaker 1: got Austin Hooper and the other one who's in Cleveland
Speaker 1: with Harrison Bryant. Harris and Bryant are there. I think
Speaker 1: we talked about no making a lot of sense for them.
Speaker 1: Like I, I think they need to sign a tight end.
Speaker 1: You can't do the two rookie tight end thing. Again,
Speaker 1: that position historically is the slowest developing. Yeah, rookie tight
Speaker 1: ends produced less than rookies at any other position. Doesn't
Speaker 1: mean tight ends aren't good. They just start producing later.
Speaker 1: So even if you're in a draft a tight end,
Speaker 1: I still think he signed somebody to pair with him,
Speaker 1: whether it is Fant or Bryant or Austin Hooper or
Speaker 1: like Adam Troutman.
Speaker 2: I would be really surprised if Harrison Bryan isn't isn't
Speaker 2: a Baseriot. I just feel like watching their film last
Speaker 2: from last year with Cleveland, they used him as as
Speaker 2: a pretty unique player in terms of the run game,
Speaker 2: and you know, he was blocking more as like a
Speaker 2: wing instead of like a true in line most of
Speaker 2: the time. But they moved him around a bunch, and
Speaker 2: he's athletic. I think he's got some breakout potential. Like
Speaker 2: not like that he's gonna all a sudden be a
Speaker 2: thousand yard receiver, but well, could he be what Kendrick
Speaker 2: Bourne was to the twenty one class, Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2: We're like, they sign Kendrick Bourne and we were all
Speaker 2: kind of like all right, like he was in the
Speaker 2: mix with some other guys, and you look back, he
Speaker 2: was their best offensive signing. I just look at the
Speaker 2: way that they use tight ends with AVP. I love
Speaker 2: Hunter Henry. I think he's been a great Patriot, you know,
Speaker 2: one of the clear you know, they hit on that
Speaker 2: signing when they signed him in free agency. But AVP
Speaker 2: likes more athletic and more explosive guys. You know, Harrison
Speaker 2: Brian certainly fits that category and his you know, tier
Speaker 2: of player. He's not as good of a player as
Speaker 2: Hunter Henry but you know, a guy obviously like David
Speaker 2: n Joku is probably one of the most explosive tight
Speaker 2: ends in the league, right, Like, those are the types
Speaker 2: of guys that they gravitate towards. So I think, no
Speaker 2: offense on the table, he's not the best blocker, but
Speaker 2: in terms of getting up the field and getting vertical
Speaker 2: and creating big plays off of play action, he's certainly
Speaker 2: somebody that can do that for he's fast, explosive player.
Speaker 2: I think Gerald Everett, I mentioned a couple of times,
Speaker 2: really like that fit for them because when they run
Speaker 2: bootlegs and stuff like that, he can be that guy
Speaker 2: that's the dump off in the flat on the slide
Speaker 2: or submarine route coming out across the formation that you
Speaker 2: just throw them the ball in the flat and it
Speaker 2: can turn into a fifteen twenty yard game. It's funny
Speaker 2: because Gerald Everett, in my mind, it reminds me a
Speaker 2: lot of John new Smith, but they just didn't have
Speaker 2: the plan the first time around. For John john Smith, meanwhile,
Speaker 2: it would be like a great fit for this offense
Speaker 2: they're gonna run.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: That's why I feel like Gerald Everett's a decent fit
Speaker 2: for it. You know, he's similar type of players. So
Speaker 2: I agree that in free agency they should be able
Speaker 2: to get a tight end that is a starting caliber
Speaker 2: NFL tight end and that'll allow them to maybe not
Speaker 2: need it as desperately once we get to the draft.
Speaker 1: But I still think they should draft somebody just oh yeah,
Speaker 1: to have that pipeline going. Yeah, all right, we got
Speaker 1: to get through these got Donald parm Oh is he
Speaker 1: free agent? Actually? I think he is. OK. Steve is
Speaker 1: in New Jersey. What's up, Steve? Hello, Hey, Steve hid So.
Speaker 7: I have a two questions, well, one kind of comment
Speaker 7: for Alex, but one of them is so the comment
Speaker 7: I'll start with is I think we should go with
Speaker 7: the white helmets for all the time. I feel like
Speaker 7: the silver just didn't even match the uniforms. I want
Speaker 7: you to go on Madden tonight and tell me how
Speaker 7: they look for next week show. Okay, And then the
Speaker 7: question is what do you guys think of TEUs Walker
Speaker 7: matching him up with Drake Meg We judged in the
Speaker 7: first round because we get ted Walker in the third round.
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, thanks for the calls. Team.
Speaker 2: Look, it's definitely there right the connection I tedes Walker
Speaker 2: had an awful senior Bowl Walk. Yeah, and I have
Speaker 2: a lot of hesitations about Ted Walker. I didn't like
Speaker 2: think that he popped watching Drake mayfilm. I didn't necessarily
Speaker 2: notice him. And then at the Senior Bowl separation finishing
Speaker 2: through contact hands obviously had a ton of drops that
Speaker 2: week at the Senior Bowl. It was a disaster for
Speaker 2: tes Walker. Now with that being said, is there a
Speaker 2: chance that Ted Walker is now available in like the
Speaker 2: fifth and all of a sudden he's value Maybe? And
Speaker 2: that would be more intriguing to me.
Speaker 1: I think there's inherent value in tes Walker becomes a
Speaker 1: better pick if you draft Drake May. Agree, if that
Speaker 1: makes where like there's a level of comfort for both, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that should elevate both. Does that mean you race up
Speaker 1: the board to get him?
Speaker 5: Know?
Speaker 1: But like you said, like, let's say you can get
Speaker 1: tes Walker, I'd even say in the fourth round and
Speaker 1: you have Drake May, It's like, all right, well, now
Speaker 1: Drake May is a familiar face to throw to these guys,
Speaker 1: already gives him chemistry, It'll help him hit the ground rolling,
Speaker 1: it'll make things easier, and maybe that helps. Because it's
Speaker 1: all about player development, right, I'm not saying like, oh
Speaker 1: you're burning a fourth round pick to make your quarterback comfortable.
Speaker 1: It's maybe it makes both players develop a little bit
Speaker 1: at a little bit higher level than they would otherwise.
Speaker 2: Big big week for tes Walker next week, because the
Speaker 2: one thing that he has his speed. Yeah, so when
Speaker 2: he runs in the forty, if he doesn't put down
Speaker 2: something in the low four fours, then I don't know
Speaker 2: where he's gonna go in the draft after the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 1: Like it could it could be.
Speaker 2: On Day three after a guy that some people thought
Speaker 2: early on in the problem, this is gonna be like
Speaker 2: a second round pick. So that's gonna be interesting.
Speaker 1: You know, if he if he's like a four four
Speaker 1: eight guy in the Senior Bowl week, then watch out,
Speaker 1: Like he could fall all the way down the board.
Speaker 1: If he runs well, he might be able to save
Speaker 1: his stock a little bit. So it'd be interesting to
Speaker 1: see what he runs. Nick is in Omaha. What's up? Nick?
Speaker 9: Hey, you guys, how's it going good? My girlfriend got
Speaker 9: wyn and I was calling in and she wanted to listen,
Speaker 9: So shout out to Riley, Hello, how's it going? Which
Speaker 9: nice kind of a side story. I was a little
Speaker 9: nervous to meet her family and I show up and
Speaker 9: her brother's got a Patriots hat on. So hey, you
Speaker 9: know that's there, the stars aligning right there.
Speaker 1: Nice.
Speaker 9: No, I I called a couple weeks back for it
Speaker 9: was like a Madden question. You guys helped me out,
Speaker 9: so appreciate on that. A couple of comments, one Evan,
Speaker 9: I am actually very surprised you don't play.
Speaker 1: Matt No, I used.
Speaker 2: I know I used to back in the day, but
Speaker 2: you know, I grew up. You know, I just I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't have time for it anymore. Unfortunately.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I should probably stop playing, but I just figured
Speaker 9: the schemes in the con No.
Speaker 1: Don't stop playing. It's fun. Plus we're getting it. We're
Speaker 1: getting the college game in a few few months.
Speaker 9: So true.
Speaker 1: True.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I just heard like three or four people mentioned
Speaker 9: Madden as they called in, so I was like, I
Speaker 9: got to bring that up. But appreciate the help on that.
Speaker 9: I haven't made to bowl yet, but I'll let you
Speaker 9: guys know. My question is a little unorthodox, and but
Speaker 9: to be fair, my you guys got me down this
Speaker 9: train of thought, so I just kind of wanted to
Speaker 9: bring it to you guys. Is there any piece of
Speaker 9: you that is like thinking the combine is a little outdated,
Speaker 9: is that? Is there any opinions there?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for the call, Dick.
Speaker 2: There's so there's so many Alex's single jokes in there
Speaker 2: that I'm just gonna let fly right by on all
Speaker 2: these things go ahead. No, no, no, I know, no, No,
Speaker 2: I think the combine being outdated. Yes, and no, I
Speaker 2: think that there's still a lot of value, certainly for teams.
Speaker 2: There's a ton of value in the interviews and the
Speaker 2: medical side of things, like that's ninety percent of the
Speaker 2: combine at this point in terms of the actual event.
Speaker 2: But I still think that there's value in this is
Speaker 2: a timed forty that everybody's on the same track on
Speaker 2: the same watch, right, and like it's not necessarily judging
Speaker 2: game speed off the eyeball test. And I was talking
Speaker 2: to at the Senior Bowl, Macro and Cameron Williams did
Speaker 2: interviews with us, and I talked to Kareron Williams a
Speaker 2: little bit about this because he had mentioned that at
Speaker 2: Wide Receiver that they still think that there's value in
Speaker 2: the forty yard dash and like seeing how these guys
Speaker 2: test athletically because it's such an athletic position. And I
Speaker 2: asked him about in game player tracking, and I was like, well,
Speaker 2: don't you guys have the zebra speeds, so like what
Speaker 2: difference does it make? And he said that that they do,
Speaker 2: and they obviously use that stuff. But certain guys, you know,
Speaker 2: we're just talking about teses Walker, right, like go ball receiver.
Speaker 2: Certain guys are running eighty yards down the field, and
Speaker 2: when they run eighty yards down the field, they can
Speaker 2: build up speed to twenty one miles an hour. Then
Speaker 2: you have like a Pop Douglas who maybe was running
Speaker 2: out of the slot the entire like he's running five
Speaker 2: yard routes, He's not going to be able to hit
Speaker 2: that top speed as easily or as often. So what
Speaker 2: the forty yard dash allows you to do is to
Speaker 2: you know, kind of take away the parameters of like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is an next receiver that plays on the outside,
Speaker 2: that's a vertical guy. Those guys are obviously going to
Speaker 2: test really really well in the in game and tracking
Speaker 2: data because they have the build up to get to
Speaker 2: those speeds. So I think that that context is important
Speaker 2: with those types of things where you have to realize
Speaker 2: that not every player gets the opportunity to hit twenty
Speaker 2: one miles an hour, So what does everybody look on
Speaker 2: an even playing field in the forty yard dash? I
Speaker 2: think it still has some value in it.
Speaker 1: And I think that splits like you taught me this,
Speaker 1: and it's very valuable that ten yard split. How explosive
Speaker 1: is a guy? I also think, and you can say
Speaker 1: this is unfair, but this is just how the NFL works.
Speaker 1: I think teams are interested in seeing what kind of
Speaker 1: shape guys show up for to the combine and what's
Speaker 1: their technique like on the forty because you just want
Speaker 1: to see it's it's what do people refer to as
Speaker 1: the most important job interviewer or whatever, something like that.
Speaker 1: Or there's pressure, there's absolutely so how seriously you may
Speaker 1: not see the player prepare, but you can tell in
Speaker 1: the outcome maybe how seriously they took their preparation. And
Speaker 1: I think that weighs in too. If there's a guy
Speaker 1: you don't expect to run a certain speed at a
Speaker 1: certain time and he impresses you, it's not just he's
Speaker 1: faster than you thought. You then go and you talk
Speaker 1: to him about his preparation process and maybe you end
Speaker 1: up learning, wow, this guy he took this really seriously
Speaker 1: and his ability to study and pick up new things,
Speaker 1: because training for the combine is not at all there's
Speaker 1: very little football application to it. Yeah, so it's all right.
Speaker 1: This guy took something he hadn't done in the past
Speaker 1: and was able to pick it up quickly. That's valuable.
Speaker 1: Like I remember, I go back to Cole Strange told
Speaker 1: us this after his rookie year that we asked him about,
Speaker 1: you know, his first true NFL off season, and he
Speaker 1: said the one thing he was looking forward to was
Speaker 1: getting was actually working on football because his rookie off
Speaker 1: season he spent so much with training for the combine,
Speaker 1: right that there wasn't a ton of football involved. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I think just learning how guys approach it. And
Speaker 1: then obviously there's the whole thing about the original purpose
Speaker 1: of the forty, which the first, the first to the
Speaker 1: first comment on the show in the chat today was
Speaker 1: asking if I was gonna tell the story, So I won't.
Speaker 2: It only took us to almost two hours into the
Speaker 2: show for Alex to finally tell us about the forty.
Speaker 1: Did they run the forty even to cover punts like that? Right?
Speaker 1: So I will not stop until everybody on the planet
Speaker 1: knows that the last thing.
Speaker 2: And look, I I'll fully admit I'm pumped about the
Speaker 2: combine next week. I'm it's my favorite thing, like of
Speaker 2: the year probably. I love the combine. I'm a sucker
Speaker 2: for it, all right, So I'm gonna I'm gonna say
Speaker 2: the combine still still matters for those reasons. But I
Speaker 2: also like you your point about how well they trained
Speaker 2: for it and how well they prepared for it. When
Speaker 2: you get to the on field drill portion and a
Speaker 2: receiver is going through the gauntlet or the quarterbacks throwing
Speaker 2: or whatever, there's a lot of there's natural pressure that's
Speaker 2: created in those situations. Everybody's eyes are on you all
Speaker 2: thirty two teams are staring at you, You're on national TV. Like,
Speaker 2: there is a lot of pressure in that and how
Speaker 2: people handle that environment is important. I think a lot
Speaker 2: of the things that receivers do and these are important
Speaker 2: as well. Like you can really see, especially you know,
Speaker 2: when we get to it next week when they run
Speaker 2: the gauntlet, Like you can really see who is a
Speaker 2: natural hands catcher, Like who's really able to.
Speaker 1: Know that's a football apple? Yeah, and that's important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, who's not fighting the ball, who's smooth?
Speaker 2: With it who you know drops or obviously like those
Speaker 2: are things that matter a lot because you you know
Speaker 2: guys that can transition and run and then catch the
Speaker 2: ball on the run and not slow down and not
Speaker 2: lose speed like that such an important skill for the
Speaker 2: receiver position.
Speaker 1: Not just receivers. The combine last year, remember we were
Speaker 1: trying to sort out the top of the cornerback board
Speaker 1: and combine. Last year was when Christian Gonzalez became one
Speaker 1: one for me for exactly what you just said. Going
Speaker 1: through some of the like full field drills. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: just the effortless change of direction, it just it jumped
Speaker 1: out where you're like, legit, Yeah, So those hold more
Speaker 1: meaning than tests. The tests don't hold a ton of
Speaker 1: meaning to me unless it's like an extreme result and
Speaker 1: when we're or the other. But the full field drill, certainly.
Speaker 2: The test is just confirming your priors or not, right,
Speaker 2: like is this guy fast or is he not fast?
Speaker 2: If I mentioned tes Walker, I think he's a great
Speaker 2: example for this. If tes Walker runs a four to
Speaker 2: three eight, then you can sit there and say, okay,
Speaker 2: you know the vertical ability on film it matches up
Speaker 2: to the forty.
Speaker 1: That's good.
Speaker 2: If tes Walker runs a four to five, then you
Speaker 2: can sit there and say, you know, bad Senior Bowl
Speaker 2: four or five, like maybe you know we miss something
Speaker 2: with this guy. So I do think there is some
Speaker 2: application to it. And I'm always gonna stand for the
Speaker 2: I'm because I love it.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's great, it's good sod Ware Olympics, all right,
Speaker 1: Mark is in Connecticut? What's that? Mark?
Speaker 5: Hey, guys, you guys actually kind of stole my thunder there.
Speaker 5: I was thinking for free agent running back, I'm actually
Speaker 5: going with d Swift. I think that if you pair
Speaker 5: him up with Remandre, like you guys are saying, you
Speaker 5: got that thunder and lightning action going on there. And
Speaker 5: then also the Harrison Bryant. I remember watching him back
Speaker 5: in college and then I wanted him back when we
Speaker 5: took the two dopes that aren't even in the NFL
Speaker 5: anymore at tight end. You know, I just you know,
Speaker 5: I don't know. Harrison Brian makes a lot of sense
Speaker 5: for New England, especially when he works with Alex van Pelt.
Speaker 5: So that those are my takes on that, and you know,
Speaker 5: I wouldn't mind Pollard, but I really think the Swift
Speaker 5: would be an electric electric player for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for the call, market call. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: First of all, don Key is in the legue on
Speaker 1: a futures contract with the Texans, so.
Speaker 2: He's barely in the league. He has, it's a future contract,
Speaker 2: like he's he'll be in the league in March May.
Speaker 2: He might be on a practice squad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just joking around. You were a big Bryant guy,
Speaker 1: now Jackie Award winner, like your best tight end in
Speaker 1: the Adam Florida Atlantic, which to get noticed at Florida
Speaker 1: he's so alt American again it Yeah, Florida Atlantic. That's
Speaker 1: not easy, very that's not a program. That's I mean,
Speaker 1: you got to dig in the channel guy to find
Speaker 1: the Florida Atlantic games.
Speaker 2: And I think you know a pretty good athlete if
Speaker 2: I remember correctly, and I had a really good Senior
Speaker 2: Bowl week obviously.
Speaker 1: Combine numbers. Yeah, give me his comedy. He didn't test
Speaker 1: uh four, so measured at six four two forty three. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that part concerns me a little bit. That's fine, he's
Speaker 1: not very big, Okay, keep going six five, six, five, okay,
Speaker 1: six uh four to seven three forty Oh really yeah?
Speaker 1: One six in the first splint, I don't know why
Speaker 1: I thought he was seven three cone, Yeah, thirty two
Speaker 1: and a half vertical, nine foot broad eighteen. But he
Speaker 1: plays I wouldn't say he plays fast, but he plays
Speaker 1: like fluidly, you know, like you can tell that he's
Speaker 1: like he's got good body control and he's a decent act.
Speaker 1: You thinking of Adam Troutman in terms of the speed, maybe, yeah,
Speaker 1: Trotman ran a four eight. Uh yeah, because you like
Speaker 1: Troutman too. I think I did like Troutman. I liked
Speaker 1: everybody besides the two guys that they drafted. I was
Speaker 1: all col Comet that year. Is the only guy I
Speaker 1: wanted to Yeah, he's a good player. Uh so you
Speaker 1: were right about that one. Yeah.
Speaker 2: In general though, whether it's swift, you know, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: I know that shocks you.
Speaker 1: I know it's not. I love it on the website.
Speaker 1: I did. I wrote it in the mail bag, but
Speaker 1: I kind of buried. No no, no, no no no. Alright,
Speaker 1: headline Lazarre wants to pay running back. Okay, all right,
Speaker 1: all right, Dmitri is in Braintree. What's up, Dmitri?
Speaker 8: Hey, guys, I'm just kind of thinking about the certain
Speaker 8: pick that we're going to have, and I'm kind of
Speaker 8: like scared death about Drake May. I don't know about
Speaker 8: you guys, but I I kind of feel like we're
Speaker 8: gonna end up with them in some way. I just
Speaker 8: don't see the commanders going with like another UNC quarterback
Speaker 8: back to back rafts, like after drafting Sam Howell. I mean,
Speaker 8: I just kind of feel like we're gonna end up
Speaker 8: with them. I would firstly trade out of three if
Speaker 8: that was the last one.
Speaker 1: What don't you like about Dmitri?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 8: It's just like it's gonna sound dumb, but I keep
Speaker 8: seeing like AI pictures of him and catching it forms
Speaker 8: and it scares the hell out of me.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 8: But like I don't know his UNC like the lack
Speaker 8: of like pass pitches around him. It just doesn't feel good.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, so thanks for the call. I think
Speaker 2: that this is something and not to like pick on
Speaker 2: Dmitri or whatever, but like this this like comparison that's
Speaker 2: out there.
Speaker 1: Uh to Mitch Trubisky, Yeah, keep talking, I'm gonna find something.
Speaker 1: Keep talking.
Speaker 2: You're scout in the helmet, and that's fine, Like if
Speaker 2: you if that bothers you like Dmitri and like you
Speaker 2: just can't get over the fact that he's in North
Speaker 2: Carolina quarterback and you know, Trubisky owl like not exactly
Speaker 2: the best pedigree there in terms of quarterbacks. I get it,
Speaker 2: But I'm just telling you that Drake May and Mitch
Speaker 2: Trubisky are totally different prospects. Like they're just play totally
Speaker 2: different styles. They have totally different strengths and weaknesses. Like
Speaker 2: to Risky made like fifteen starts in college like the
Speaker 2: whole time. You know, like Drake May is a multi
Speaker 2: year starter. They just couldn't be more different. Trubisky was
Speaker 2: a good, strong athlete with a good arm that was
Speaker 2: in like a one read rpo style offense at the
Speaker 2: time at UNC that was extremely raw, that had very
Speaker 2: few starts in college football. So it's just totally different.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you a list quarterbacks from the modern
Speaker 1: era from a certain school. You tell me the schools
Speaker 1: good at producing quarterbacks, Okay, Joe Barnes, Yeah, Tommy Dunvine,
Speaker 1: Ron Reeves, Billy Joe Tolliver. Who are these people? I'm
Speaker 1: gonna give this away a second. Cliff Kingsbury, BJ Simmons,
Speaker 1: Any good NFL quarterbacks on there? No, So if we're
Speaker 1: sitting here in twenty seventeen and you're saying, I don't
Speaker 1: want a guy from that school they never turn out quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's Texas Tech. You're passing on Patrick Holmes. So
Speaker 1: the point, like I get it, Like the UNC quarterbacks
Speaker 1: have been fluking. Like I'll be honest, the first thought
Speaker 1: I had when I saw Drake May, especially because he's
Speaker 1: from North Carolina. Yeah, and there's that whole pipeline of
Speaker 1: North Carolina. Go, guys going to you and see him
Speaker 1: Like here we go again. Different, different, And like Sam
Speaker 1: how Drake May was a five star recruit, Drake May
Speaker 1: was originally committed to Alabama.
Speaker 2: That's something that I feel like we should we should
Speaker 2: like hammer home with him if they.
Speaker 1: Do draft well. A lot of people use that as
Speaker 1: negative why they say he was scared of Alba. He
Speaker 1: just wanted to stay home. He was not like Sam Howe,
Speaker 1: was not a five star like he wasn't he might
Speaker 1: have been a five saving, he wasn't the level of recruit.
Speaker 2: I I just blamed the Bears for this because like
Speaker 2: it's their fault that they drafted Mitch Trubisky way too high.
Speaker 2: And I could have told you at the time they
Speaker 2: drafted him.
Speaker 1: Wait too all of us could have Like I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that I'm like some special savant because of that, right,
Speaker 1: Like everybody knew they drafted him too high. If you
Speaker 1: if you want to be down on Drake May and
Speaker 1: you want to like Daniel Jones, is such a better
Speaker 1: comp in terms of like just play style experience in
Speaker 1: college football, the type of offense that they were running
Speaker 1: Drake May And I know not a lot of people,
Speaker 1: I feel like, realize this. Drake May is playing in
Speaker 1: an air raid at UNC. He plays in an air
Speaker 1: raid offense, and yeah, it's there's a lot more like
Speaker 1: you know, full field progression. Mitch Mitch Trubisky was an
Speaker 1: RPO quarterback at UNC. That's that's the offense that they ran.
Speaker 1: Drake May is is reading the full field like he's
Speaker 1: he's doing NFL quarterback stuff. He's not playing in that
Speaker 1: type of system. That that comp bothered me.
Speaker 2: Like if you're gonna say that, he's gonna stank and
Speaker 2: like compare him to like Daniel Jones, like at least
Speaker 2: compare him to somebody that that.
Speaker 1: Has, Yeah, quarterbacks just don't have uh a good the
Speaker 1: schools don't have a good quarterback until that's just not
Speaker 1: the many good I mean, Alabama didn't have a good
Speaker 1: quarterback for like some people. They still don't. But I
Speaker 1: mean I would, I would, But to Jalen Hurts, I
Speaker 1: think are are so Look, this isn't gonna sound like
Speaker 1: much of a difference as somebody who follows recruiting. I
Speaker 1: promise you this is a big difference. Uh, Mitch Trubisky
Speaker 1: and recruiting tables get it wrong all the time. Marvin
Speaker 1: Harrison Junior was the twenty first rank wide receiver recruit
Speaker 1: in his class. You can believe that, Yeah, I can't actually,
Speaker 1: but it really Yeah, I think that his game has
Speaker 1: has developed in terms of like you know, twenty first
Speaker 1: I wasn't even a top one h I don't think
Speaker 1: that he the top one hundred recruit. I could see
Speaker 1: that because he's not like blazing fast. All right, fair enough,
Speaker 1: But here here's my point, Like when you talk about
Speaker 1: the background in where they started from the foundation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Mitch Trubisky was a four star recruit. He was seventy
Speaker 1: ninth ranked player in his class. Sam Howe was a
Speaker 1: four star recruit. He was one hundred and fourth Drake
Speaker 1: May was a five star recruit. He was twenty fourth.
Speaker 1: He was the fourth quarterback in a class that also
Speaker 1: included Quinn Eewers and Caleb William sam Hewart ended up
Speaker 1: being like a major bust, but two guys who were
Speaker 1: viewed as generational. So this is Drake May is starting
Speaker 1: from a different point than those other two guys, where
Speaker 1: there's more raw ability there. Now that doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a long way to go. I think
Speaker 1: he needs to be coached quite a bit. But Sam
Speaker 1: Howe was never to your point, Mitchell Trubisky was never
Speaker 1: that kind of prospect. He never was. The Bears just
Speaker 1: saw It's like Zach Wilson. They just saw something that
Speaker 1: wasn't there. It was big, tall death. Sam Howe's a
Speaker 1: fourth round pick. I don't know why we're acting like
Speaker 1: remember after the Patriots played the Commanders, and everybody's trying
Speaker 1: to tell me, tell us that Sam Howe is like
Speaker 1: this great quarterback because he led the league in passing,
Speaker 1: which doesn't mean anything. The corpse of Ben Roethlisberger led
Speaker 1: the league in passing one of those last years in
Speaker 1: Pittsburg where could barely move. It just means a trailing
Speaker 1: in a lot of games late and you're just throwing
Speaker 1: a ball down the field. Drake May does not comp
Speaker 1: as a Mitchell Trubiskier. If you want to compare Mitchell
Speaker 1: Trubisky and Sam how you can do that. The only
Speaker 1: thing that you're doing when you compare Drake Made and
Speaker 1: minche t Bisky is saying that they both went to you,
Speaker 1: winc That's it. That's it right, and that's he's not
Speaker 1: actually not even from North Carolina. He's from Ohio.
Speaker 2: Okay, uh, but we gotta wrap so just really quickly,
Speaker 2: is there anybody from the combine? We we didn't talk
Speaker 2: much as much about the combiness and wanted to, but
Speaker 2: is there anybody from the combine that you're really looking at?
Speaker 1: Player? I mean, it's it's Michael Panics. Man, how can
Speaker 1: it not be?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: Where is he at healthwise? And I want to see
Speaker 1: Joe Milton throw the ball? Yeah the eighty fight he said,
Speaker 1: he said he's gonna try to throw up a one
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty yards is combine?
Speaker 2: So god, all right, my my list? Yeah, obviously Panics
Speaker 2: is high up down there. I mentioned all the things
Speaker 2: about the receivers, like I think that's gonna be important
Speaker 2: watching those guys. This is my favorite thing about the combine.
Speaker 2: Yeah not no, no, okay, you're.
Speaker 1: Gonna talk about the shrimp. Nope, okay, but that is
Speaker 1: good arm length for the offensive. This is important, folks.
Speaker 1: Who's the guy this is important? It's the guy that's
Speaker 1: that's close in terms of the thresh Like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: the last year was scronsky. We kind of morgan did
Speaker 1: he measure it? The he did?
Speaker 2: But you know, I need to I want confirmation. At
Speaker 2: the Senior Bowl he was like thirty two and a half,
Speaker 2: which most teams so used to be thirty four. Yeah,
Speaker 2: now then Joe Thomas happened, so now it's now it's
Speaker 2: thirty three, right, So thirty three is really the threshold nowadays.
Speaker 2: But I think that arm length and range at the
Speaker 2: tackle position and the type of scheme that a VP
Speaker 2: likes to run is going to matter a little bit
Speaker 2: more than it maybe did in the Downhills.
Speaker 1: Thirty two and seventy eighth.
Speaker 2: Okay, so so that's like, really that's to me, that's
Speaker 2: that's close.
Speaker 1: So his arms grew in the last I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: surprised because some of these guys go to like doctors
Speaker 1: to get that. Didn't didn't Kenny pick it? Do something? Yeah?
Speaker 1: He was like stretching his hand, Yeah, bigger hands and
Speaker 1: can you pick about.
Speaker 2: That's sad uh. I'm telling you arm length is gonna matter.
Speaker 2: H is he just like sleeping in bed holding in
Speaker 2: each Jordan Morgan's the one big one and I fought
Speaker 2: now from Washington's the other big one.
Speaker 1: He's he's somebody that the Fatanu. Yeah say, did I
Speaker 1: say wrong?
Speaker 2: He said, like fought now. I don't know Troy Fatanu,
Speaker 2: his measure his arms. I think most people are projecting
Speaker 2: to be in the thirty two's instead of the thirty threes.
Speaker 2: So Gord, those are factors. I don't necessarily subscribe to
Speaker 2: it because Dante Scarnekia didn't necessarily subscribe to it, and
Speaker 2: I I, you know.
Speaker 1: I'm not doubting that guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, But I think a lot of offensive line
Speaker 2: coaches and a lot of scouts still do. If you're
Speaker 2: below that threshold, like Jordan Morgan at thirty two and seven,
Speaker 2: a's one eighth is not going to make the difference.
Speaker 1: But that's a shorter arm tackle. That's what it's Also,
Speaker 1: is he that much of a standout that you're willing
Speaker 1: to overlook it. Like if the guy is thirty two
Speaker 1: in charms but he's on tape just unbelievable, you may
Speaker 1: overlook it. Morgan didn't have a great week, I thought
Speaker 1: in Mobile.
Speaker 2: No, I think Morgan, and we don't have a ton
Speaker 2: of time. So Morgan, he's one of those guys that
Speaker 2: like hugs people with his hands instead of like getting
Speaker 2: into the chest. Like I hate watching tackles that your
Speaker 2: guy Patrick Paul had this going on a little bit too,
Speaker 2: but I think it can be corrected. Yeah, but the
Speaker 2: point is is just when you go like this and
Speaker 2: like you're you're not getting that inside hand placement consistently.
Speaker 2: It's really difficult in the NFL because guys, guys will
Speaker 2: just get into your chest and they will push you
Speaker 2: back into the quarterback. Like that's how you get bul
Speaker 2: rushes when you give up your chest. So you can't
Speaker 2: give up your chest. So I think that that's gonna
Speaker 2: be a thing for Jordan Morgan that he's going to
Speaker 2: have to fix. But yeah, measurables for all these tackles
Speaker 2: is gonna matter like nothing that happens on the fields
Speaker 2: in terms of the tackles matters, Like, I don't care
Speaker 2: what any tackle runs in the forty yard dash, but
Speaker 2: in terms of.
Speaker 1: Yeah or done with Jordan Davis, that was the only
Speaker 1: time I ever cared arm length the big deal for
Speaker 1: the tackle. Actually, i'll give you one I'm interested in.
Speaker 1: Devandre Sweat didn't measure in at the Senior Bowl. Eye.
Speaker 2: Well, he doesn't want to weigh He's gonna be like
Speaker 2: three hundred and eighty pounds.
Speaker 1: I know, I want to see how big he is. No,
Speaker 1: but he's but he carries it. He's athletic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's somebody that you know, depending on how free
Speaker 2: agency goes, because they moved on from Lawrence guy, Like
Speaker 2: you know, you.
Speaker 1: Gotta take Deventre Sweat and top fifty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's gonna be high. Pick last thing really quickly.
Speaker 2: I think hands size for quarterbacks is gonna matter as well. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because we've already got a couple.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: I made fun of you a couple of weeks ago
Speaker 2: about the whole run game thing when it comes to
Speaker 2: New England. But throwing the ball in New England and
Speaker 2: handling the football in New England with small hands is
Speaker 2: not going to be easy. So like that that that's
Speaker 2: gonna matter.
Speaker 1: You remember before how we said we thought the Patriots
Speaker 1: all everything they said yesterday kind of fit one guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know who had the biggest hands in Senior Bowl Penix?
Speaker 1: He Well he's tied with Joe Milton. But yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: ten and three A's like big, massive hands, massive hands.
Speaker 1: You know you know what that means. No, look at
Speaker 1: him hold the football though it looks weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no hands. It's gonna like if you have a
Speaker 2: guy that has small hands. It's genuinely a concern about it.
Speaker 2: Work out in New England with small hands, not a joke.
Speaker 2: All Right, that's gonna do it for us here on
Speaker 2: Catch twenty two. We'll be back next week. I think
Speaker 2: we're in the afternoon because of the Combine schedule, but
Speaker 2: I'll be in Indianapolis. Alex will be here to host
Speaker 2: the show. Listening, and we'll talk combine fully next week.
Speaker 2: All combine hopefully, and stay tuned for Patriots Unfiltered that's
Speaker 2: coming up here in a few minutespe.
Speaker 1: Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe on Apple, google Play,
Speaker 1: and everywhere else you listen. Like the show, please rate
Speaker 1: and review us listener comments and ratings help keep us
Speaker 1: high in the podcast rankings, so new listeners can find us.
Speaker 1: Be sure to check patriots dot com for more news
Speaker 1: and more podcasts.