WEBVTT - Ep 207 Tear Gas: How can a chemical weapon be “humane”? 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:04.559 Now tear gas canisters were plummeting everywhere behind the barricade 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:07.720 through the trees. A huge cloud of gas rolled over 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:10.719 the barricade, and cops with gas masks on came over 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:14.280 the barricade in an assault wave with shotguns and rifles, 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.400 using the butts as clubs on anyone in sight, knocking 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:21.200 people down and standing on them. Gas gas was the cry, 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:24.000 as if poisonous snakes had been loosed in the area. 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.880 Thousands streamed across the park toward Clark Street, and panic 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.160 started headlong, running the sudden threat of being trampled by 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.480 your own people. The tear gas was catching up with us, 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.199 a sharp menthol sort of burning on the cheeks and 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:40.000 burning in the eyes, but though some people ran from it, 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:42.960 most of us kept on walking. Now the tear gas 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:47.199 began really burning, making the eyes twist tightly closed, and 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.440 if you rubbed it, the burning got worse, as if 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:53.120 your eyeballs were being rolled in fire. The medics were shouting, 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.800 keep your eyes open, let it tear away. Water, Wash 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.720 your eyes with water. The information on how to handle 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.520 the tear your gas passed rapidly and with a warm feeling, 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:05.880 from one person to another. The gas drifted over Old 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:08.920 Town and the citizens came out of their houses, coughing 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:47.560 and gritting their eyes angrily. 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:04.320 Yeah. Oh. That was excerpted from a book that was 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:08.640 published in nineteen sixty nine called No One Was Killed 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.919 by John Schultz, and it's about the nineteen sixty eight 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:16.639 protests and the in Chicago at the Democratic Convention, the 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:20.880 National Democratic Convention, and in which police tear gas was 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:26.240 used extensively by police along with other forms of violence. Yeah, 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:26.720 so it. 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.239 Feels like it could be from any old day these days. 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:31.800 Erin, it does it does. 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:36.359 Hi. I'm Aaron Welsh and I'm Erin Alman Updike. 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.120 And this is this podcast Will Kill You. 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:40.880 And today we're talking about tear gas. 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:43.640 We're talking about tear gas not just a timely topic, 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:46.400 a timely topic for any part of well almost the 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:51.960 entire twentieth century, twenty first century. Yeah, so we will 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.320 learn to Yeah, as we'll learn. We really wanted to 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.640 kind of get into what it is we know about 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:01.920 tear gas and why men any countries allow its use 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.640 on its own citizens despite the fact that it is 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:06.840 banned in international warfare. 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:09.959 Yeah, so kind of a big deal. 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.200 Kind of big deal. There's a lot to a lot 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.880 to care from. Yeah good, Yeah, well we'll get there. 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:20.720 But first, but first it's time. What are we drinking 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:21.440 this week? 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:23.959 This week we're drinking the tear Jerker. 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.919 We are drinking the tear Jerker. It's got elderflower syrup, 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.880 lemon juice, club soda, sprig of rosemary. It's pretty good. 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.560 It's a nice little bev for a not nice topic. 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.400 Yep, there sums up most of our quarantines. I think 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:44.120 that's so true. But you can find the quarantine on 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:46.480 our website, this podcast wikill you dot com on all 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.000 of our social media channels. Check us out if you're 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.680 not following us, We've got some great content. If you're like, hey, 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:54.720 what are you doing? I missed an episode? What's going on? What? 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:55.320 What do you want? 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:55.520 You know? 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:56.800 There? 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:57.600 There? 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.640 Do do that? What numer do you have? 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.560 I don't know what touch we have, but we do 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:06.240 have it on our website this podcast will kill you 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.800 dot com along with Bloodmobile, who does the music for 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.320 all of our episodes, a bookshop dot org affiliate account, 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.920 a good Reads list which Aaron curates and is phenomenal. 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:16.960 We've got transcripts from all of our episodes, we've got 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.960 all of the sources first hand, account form, contact est form. 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:25.599 I will say I no longer curate the Goodreads list 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.240 because it stops the number of submissions that you're allowed 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:30.839 to add to a list. And so like years ago, 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:32.960 probably like three years at this point, I haven't been 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:34.000 like three years old. 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:35.400 So we need another good Reads list. 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.000 We need a good Reads list, or we need somebody 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.159 else to add to them. But if you want to 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:41.320 see like the full list, anytime that I read a 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.680 book or reference a book on the podcast in any 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.840 episode or for a book club episodes or whatever. Bookshop 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.160 dot org has a bunch of lists. It has the 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:53.600 Kid's book Club TPWKY Kids book Club, So if you're 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:55.640 not following us on social media, you're missing out on that. 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:57.080 You don't even know what we're talking about. 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:01.880 There our book our TPWKY book Club books. There's and 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.960 then there's like podcasts related books in general. So that 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:09.720 includes nonfiction, memoirs, fiction even so, but anyway, you should 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.280 check all that out. And I think that's it. Are 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:15.000 we ready to get started? 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:16.080 Let's do it. 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:37.719 Let's do it. Tear gas is prohibited in war, yet 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:41.919 many countries, including the United States permit tear gas to 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:44.159 be used against their own citizens. 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.280 Yeah, like more countries than not. 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.200 It was zinc surprisingly hard. I was googling, like tear 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:56.560 gas band and it you can't. No, yeah, there's not 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.000 like a curated list right all of the. 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:05.800 No, it's used like extensively across the globe for crowd 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:07.520 control purposes. 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:12.080 And proponents of tear gas claim that it is a 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:17.440 safe and more humane tool to control riots, while opponents 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.960 of tear gas question its alleged harmlessness and point towards 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:24.240 the many instances where tear gas is deployed as a 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:29.039 weapon to quell legal and peaceful protests, not a tool 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:31.920 of de escalation, used as a last resort, but a 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:36.039 frontline weapon of political suppression, one that is not evenly 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:40.200 utilized across the political spectrum. So there are statistics I 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.520 found from the US Crisis Monitor that showed that in 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:48.120 the early twenty twenties, can we say that yet? Yeah, yeah, okay, 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.440 from like twenty I don't remember the exact years, but 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.400 in the early twenty twenties, police were three times more 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.799 likely to use force in protests organized by left leaning 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:02.159 groups such as Abolish Ice and Black lives matter three 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:06.279 times more is more likely. And this is not just 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.359 about tear gas. This is just the use of force 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:10.560 in general, in general in general. 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:13.440 Okay, yeah, huh uh. 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.840 And also this uneven use, like we're going to call 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:19.840 out the US a lot throughout this, but this uneven 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:24.400 use is not restricted to the US alone. No, our 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.680 mental image of protest today is incomplete without a police 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.000 officer spraying a demonstrator in the face with pepper spray. 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.920 That infamous image that they tried to get wiped from 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.520 the internet, and it had the opposite effect to stressand 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:42.320 effect as it happens, or you know, these these images 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.679 of launching a canister of tear gas into a crowd 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:50.160 of peacefully and legally assembled citizens, those thick, choking clouds 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:53.920 are chilling reminders that quote unquote peaceful assembly is in 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:55.360 the eye of the beholder. 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.240 Oh god, Aran, was. 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:00.480 This the intention of tear gas when it was invented? 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.840 If not, what was the claimed intention and why has 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:08.520 tear gas followed such a different trajectory than other agents 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:11.600 of chemical warfare. That's the story that I want to 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:12.119 tell today. 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:14.040 Okay, yeah, I can't wait. 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:16.520 Tear gas is not, in fact a gas. I know 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:18.920 you're going to get into this in more detail later 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:21.360 on aaron, but and it's also not one thing at all. 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.680 It is an umbrella term that encompasses chemical compounds that 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:28.720 are lacrymatory agents, as in they produced tears, and historically 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.040 they were also referred to as harassing agents. And I'm 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:34.240 not going to go into the individual histories of each 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:39.040 of the different compounds that make up this tear gas category, 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:41.920 but rather I want to take us through the overall 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:45.360 history of tear gas as one discrete unit and how 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.880 it's idealized image of a safe, non toxic tool to 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.319 protect citizens is rarely born out in reality. 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.320 It's just the idea of it being non toxic entirely. 0:08:56.720 --> 0:09:00.280 Right to protect citizens is the other to protect kills me. Yeah. 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.240 The history, this history begins in World War One, when 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:09.360 chemical weapons, including tear gas, chlorine, phosgene, mustard gas, and 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:14.680 others were first developed and used extensively. While chemical warfare 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:18.320 had been utilized as early as four hundred BCE in 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.840 the Peloponnesian War between the Spartans and the Athenians. 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:24.679 Yeah, oh my god, four hundred. 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.559 People have been trying us for ages, just like we'll 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.440 throw things or like what else can we do? Yeah, 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.200 But it was really only in the early twentieth century 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:39.520 that the scientific and technological advancements made during the Industrial 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.640 Revolution could actually be applied to war. So it's like, 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.120 let's use all this new scientific and technical knowledge to 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:47.160 better kill. 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:50.839 People or harmon better kill people. Yeah, to kill people 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:52.319 more efficiently. 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:55.800 To kill the more efficiently. And when chemical weapons were 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.800 introduced in the First World War, the reaction was one 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:03.959 of utter A military chaplain describes what he saw in 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:07.160 April nineteen fifteen during the first use of chlorine by 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:12.400 German troops in Epra, Belgium on French forces. Okay quote, 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.280 a greenish gray cloud had swept down upon them, turning 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:20.199 yellow as it traveled over the country, blasting everything it touched, 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:25.040 shriveling up the vegetation. No human courage could face such apparel. 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:30.319 Then they're staggered into our midst French soldiers blinded, coughing, 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:35.720 chest heaving faces and ugly purple color lips, speechless with agony, 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.480 and behind them in the gas choked trenches, we learned 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:42.520 that they had left hundreds of dead and dying comrades. 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:47.640 The impossible was only too true. It was the most fiendish, 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:53.520 wicked thing I have ever seen. End quote. Oh yeah, 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:58.520 and that's horrific. There are so many accounts. We really 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:00.680 should do some of these other gases day as well. 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.680 But like the accounts were like something out of a 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:08.559 horror book. Like it was unsound, Like it was like unimaginable, 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.280 I mean at first unless I think so many people 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:13.920 until they saw it themselves or were part of it themselves, 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:20.440 did not know the scale of I guess, just agony 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:21.959 and terror. 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.120 And it's hard to I think, even imagine or conceptualize 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:28.000 when it's just that. I mean, it's it's everywhere, right, 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.680 It's not like you control where a gas or a 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:34.160 smoke or whatever goes when you when it's released. It's 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.000 just everything in its path. 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:38.040 I mean. And that's a big part of like tear 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:43.080 gas today is that it's it's indiscriminately applied, and as 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:46.959 affected by it is also indiscriminate. It's the wind changes. 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:48.600 Yeah, we'll get there now. 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:53.160 The Ibrah gas attack with chlorine was the first to 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:57.000 garner widespread attention due to its extreme lethality, and it 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:01.120 prompted the development and distribution of protective equipment like gas masks. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.720 It would not be the last attack, nor would chlorine 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.040 be the only chemical agent deployed. Mustard gas and fog 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:12.200 gene also contributed to the ninety one thousand gas deaths 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:16.600 in World War One. Wow, ninety ninety one thousand. It's 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.600 a lot, and it's it's interesting, like there are so 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:24.319 many of these chemical warfare books that were published either 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.160 in the nineteen twenties or in during World War Two 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.040 period that were still like, we chemical warfare is the 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:35.120 best path forward. This statistic is positive for them. They're like, oh, 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.840 it caused twenty five percent of all of the casualties, 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:40.720 all of the injuries, all of the things that kept 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.560 people from being able to be in battle. But it 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:45.360 only caused this many deaths. 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:50.280 And it's just like it incapacitated, itepacitated and long term effects. 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.720 Forget about it. No one died, you know. It's like 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:53.440 that kind of thing. 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:55.120 Oh God, okay. 0:12:55.760 --> 0:13:00.280 But before there was chlorine, foggene or mustard gas, there 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:04.320 was tear gas before those. Before those. The first use 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.200 of gas in battle in World War One was in 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:11.000 August nineteen fourteen, when French troops fired tear gas grenades 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:16.040 into German trenches. Huh yeah uh. And apparently the amount 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.880 of chemicals was so low that no one noticed. But 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.160 it set off an arms race where different countries sought 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.640 to outcompete each other in devising more and more deadly 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.480 gases and better protective equipment. It was just like all ripes. 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:35.080 And that's yeah. Strictly speaking, the use of asphyxiating agents 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:37.920 like chlorine was against the Hague Conventions that had been 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.640 set in place in the late eighteen nineties. Tear gas 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.360 was not banned under this agreement. 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.160 Okay, only because it's like assiciating. 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.120 Yeah, okay, But these agreements were so vague as to 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.480 be taken as suggestions at best. Like the loophole was 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.199 absolutely enormous. It was just like, well, you could argue 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.480 your way out of any of it, right. And when 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.440 World War One concluded in November of nineteen eighteen, the 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.800 perception of chemical warfare was divided along two very different lines. 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:12.120 It was either the most humane form of weaponry ever 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:17.080 created or the least. Yeah, I just I know. The 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.240 argument is mental gymnastics at a. 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:26.200 Humane weaponry period, Like, uh, sorry, and that's that's what 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.680 really kills me about some of these arguments that people 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.880 made then and still make today, and they're like, listen, 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:32.720 if we're going. 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:36.360 To have war, war is unavoidable, and you can't say 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.600 that one weapon is right, right, So that's like, first 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.160 of all, how many assumptions are you asking us to? 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.960 So many? So we've already had to leap. Okay, the 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:46.440 start down the line. 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:49.920 It's all it's all inhumane. But yeah, anyway, so we've 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.960 got these two different camps. Chemical warfare is humane. Chemical 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:58.480 warfare is not humane. And those who experienced gas attacks firsthand, 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:02.240 which was many veterans often more often fell into the 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:06.080 latter camp that it's the least humane weaponry. It's horrible, 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:09.360 with some expressing that they were more afraid of gas 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:14.560 than of shell fire. The effective gas was not only physical, 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:19.400 but it was hugely psychological. Caused widespread panic and chaos, 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.080 which often left troops more vulnerable to artillery fire. And 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:26.120 this was often again like a feature, not a bug. 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.840 This is the intention, and this is later on it 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.080 was like, oh, but it's not harmful, and it's like, no, 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:36.000 but we you introduced tear gas to then. 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.080 Kill, to do harm in order to do harm. 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:43.880 Yeah, protective equipment didn't always live up to its promise either. 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.560 The unwieldy, awkward masks made it more difficult to maneuver. 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.600 And then you've got something like mustard gas, which will 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:59.080 burn your skin through clothing. Yeah, it's awful, okay. Gas. Overall, 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:04.160 gas weapons were designed to induce suffering, or at the 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.120 least harm for those who believed it to be the 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:11.080 most humane form of weaponry. These qualities were points in 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:16.320 favor of chemical warfare, and among these proponents was US 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:21.960 General Amos Freese, pro military, anti communist, xenophobic, racist, white supremacist, 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.040 champion of the Chemical Warfare Service, and author of the 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:29.200 nineteen twenty one book Chemical Warfare, in which he played 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.560 to Thoks about it. Oh yeah, it's a really dark read. 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.080 It's a how to. It's like a oh, how you 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:37.960 want to try? Yeah, it's a little bit of a 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.480 persuasive argument. At the beginning, it's like, this is the 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:45.360 best thing that's ever happened. And then yeah, let's go 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.800 through them all, and how do you recognize them? I'm 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.600 pretty sure it's that one. I read another book on 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.440 chemical warfare, or not all of it, but like I 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.920 found another book on chemical warfare from nineteen forty four. 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.040 One of them has a poem that's supposed to help 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.760 you remember how to detect the different. 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.480 The different types. Yeah, that's gross. 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:10.000 It's really grim. It's really grim. But anyway, So in 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:14.400 Amos Freeze chemical warfare, he says at one point, quote 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:17.560 instead of gas warfare being the most horrible, it is 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.360 the most humane where both sides are prepared for it. 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.320 While against savage or unprepared peoples, it can be made 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.479 so humane that but very few casualties will result. End. 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:39.320 Quote there's a lot in that savage against Okay, yeah, okay. 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.240 It's cool to use it in war. Everyone's got a 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:45.320 gas mask, and it's cool to use it against. 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:48.399 Against people not in war, even if they don't have 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:49.040 a gas mask. 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.440 Even if they don't have a gas mask. It's all good, right. 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:52.879 The ends justify the means. 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.040 Of course, they always do right, right. 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:58.800 And so for Freeze and others in the pro gas camp, 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:03.760 chemical weapons presented the future of war, and the anti 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.080 gas sentiment that emerged after World War One threatened Freeze's 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:12.320 relevance and his career. Nevertheless, many world leaders disagreed, and 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.280 this was in alignment with the overall anti war sentiment 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.919 that prevailed throughout many countries after the horrific loss of 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:22.560 life from World War One. Discussions over the future use 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:26.840 of chemical and biological warfare in this interwar period led 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.320 eventually to the Geneva Protocol, which was signed in nineteen 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:34.040 twenty five, and it prohibited the use of both biological 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:38.800 and chemical weapons in international armed conflicts. Ok The language 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:40.960 here is kind of important, So I'm going to break 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.200 apart these a little bit so we understand what's being 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:47.479 prohibited and what's not. Okay, Okay. It prohibits, specifically, number one, 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.720 the first use in war of quote, asphyxiating, poisonous or 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:56.119 other gases and of all analogous liquids, materials, or devices 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:57.080 end quote. 0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:57.720 Okay. 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:02.160 And number two the first use of bacteriological methods of warfare. 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:04.879 We're not going to pay attention to that in this episode. 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:08.800 Still interesting bacteria, Okay, exactly. 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.280 That's one of the things I was like, hmm, But 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:16.200 what the Geneva Protocol, this this version of it, did 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:21.960 not do was prohibit the research, development, testing, or stockpiling 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:26.480 of such weapons chemical or biological, or the domestic use 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:30.760 of tear gases or herbicides of course not, nor did 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.600 it prohibit things like concealment, smoke or incendiary weapons like napalm. 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:35.399 Okay. 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:40.280 Tear gas was a more contentious issue like did it 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:44.840 fall under other gases or analogous liquids, materials or devices? 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:47.760 That's it, I mean yes, it could be. 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.000 Argued either way, right, like something, It just depends on 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:51.639 do you want to do you like tear gas or 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.000 do you not like your gas? So some said of 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.120 course it does. Others were like no, that's it needs 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:59.359 to be banned, right, or someone's like, yeah, I don't know, 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.919 it doesn't count. And so because there was such confusion 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.040 over this and just making sure that the precision in 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:10.240 language was there, in nineteen thirty a conference was convened 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:13.040 in which all but one country that attended, which I 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.840 think was like thirteen countries overall, all but one country 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:21.000 agreed that tear gases were covered by the ban because 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.560 it was difficult to draw a line between lethal and 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:28.000 incapacitating gases. Okay, So going back to the language of 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:32.880 that protocol, the protocol prohibits it forbade the first use 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:37.080 of these gases, and so that means that retaliation is permitted. 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.159 So if someone gases you, you can go ahead and 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.400 gas them, yep. But they were the ones who did 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:44.800 wrong in the first place. But two rungs make it right. 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.440 So two rungs make it right. All's fair and war 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:53.600 and war, yeah, and so and so like. They essentially 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:55.119 that a lot of the countries who were like, no 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:57.359 tear gases also need to be banned were imagining a 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:00.280 scenario in which, let's say that a class out of 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:04.000 choking gas is released over a group of soldiers. They 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:07.440 are they don't know how to discern between tear despite 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:10.600 the lovely little rhymes that are in credit and textbooks, 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:14.040 but they don't know how to discern between tear gas 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:17.359 versus chlorine versus you know, it's not something that maybe 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.200 immediately you are able to you're able to tell it, 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:22.719 or just one of the band gases or not one 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:26.320 of the band gases, And so before you even find out, 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:30.560 because you're allowed second year to retaliate, to retaliate, you 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:33.600 could then retaliate with a more lethal, deadly gas like 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:37.240 mustard gas chlorine, even if tear gas was the first 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:39.880 use one of the allowed gases allowed gases. 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:43.080 That makes sense where it's like if you don't know. 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:47.120 Then it's just tit for tat, and you're going higher 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:48.120 and higher each time. 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:51.480 Right, Tear gas would easily escalate or start a conflict 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:54.760 in that way, Okay, And so that is why its 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:56.400 use is banned in war. 0:21:57.000 --> 0:21:59.120 That is why that is why it's use is banned 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:01.880 in war. Okay. Well that's an answer, at least. 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:04.240 It's an answer. But you know how I said, all 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:07.840 but one country agreed to this. Guess who? Guess who objected? 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:09.639 How what a hard guess? 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:12.200 The United States? Yeah, Yeah, the. 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:14.359 Country that likes to say no to all the things. 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:18.160 Mom tell me what to do, what to do? 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:20.000 I can use two your guys if I want to. 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:26.280 I mean, that's basically how I imagine the US, especially Ams Freeze, 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:30.040 who had campaigned very hard by this point, like by 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:32.639 the by nineteen twenty five, he had campaigned so hard 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:36.720 to make tear gas acceptable. And so the US is. 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:41.359 I'm sorry, I'm just imagining the slogans reco today. 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:44.879 Oh, there will be some slogans in here. But the 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:49.199 US's response was was was that they were unwilling to 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.520 bind themselves quote, to refrain from the use in war 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:56.040 against any enemy of agencies which had been adopted for 0:22:56.119 --> 0:23:00.000 peacetime use against our own population agencies adopted on the 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:04.040 ground that while causing temporary inconvenience, they cause no real 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.119 suffering or permanent disability end quote. 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:09.480 We're using it against the people. 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:12.560 It's fine. 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:19.479 Yeah, we're already are using it's it's not funny. 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:21.520 None of this is not None of this is funny. 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:27.080 It's just I don't even know. Yeah, the fact that 0:23:27.160 --> 0:23:31.560 like that, that's not the argument that you think it is. 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:32.640 You're missing the point. 0:23:32.760 --> 0:23:36.760 You're missing the point, you're yeah, yeah, So, but I 0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:41.360