WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Tsavo Man-Eaters

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<v Speaker 1>Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by the jealous

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<v Speaker 1>rival of steel Wall, which is the lesser appreciated describing

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<v Speaker 1>tool Sheep's Wall. Instead, it's supported by the generous contributions

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<v Speaker 1>of people like you are listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon

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<v Speaker 1>dot com slash thinking Sideways to learn more Thinking Sideways.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't stories of things we don't know the answer too. Well.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, and welcome again to another episode of Thinking

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<v Speaker 1>Sideways podcast. The podcast I am Steve, as always joined

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<v Speaker 1>by Done Joe. You didn't sing that, Joe. Okay, Oh wait,

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<v Speaker 1>that's the wrong episode. Next time, next time handing my guitar. No, So,

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<v Speaker 1>today's story, Um, well, actually, before we get in today's story.

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<v Speaker 1>Today's episode is part of our summer series where we're

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<v Speaker 1>taking some of the smaller mysteries and and going over

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<v Speaker 1>those so that gives us some time off during the

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<v Speaker 1>summer and it allows some time to research the bigger mysteries. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>like Dizzy Cooper and Stan Cooper and things. Just Dan Cooper. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>just the entire summer full of Dan Cooper, the summer

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<v Speaker 1>of Dan Dans of summer. I'm sorry you were so

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<v Speaker 1>proud of yourself I woke up at four o'clock this morning.

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<v Speaker 1>I've been awake for a very long time. Okay, let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk about van eater. Sorry, today's story is the Savo

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<v Speaker 1>man Eaters. Uh. And this is a listener suggestion. This

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<v Speaker 1>was suggested by David. Thanks David. Yeah no, this is

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<v Speaker 1>a fun one. I had forgotten about this until I

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<v Speaker 1>came across down. The Law's fun except for the people

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<v Speaker 1>who got eaten. Shush, jeezils we do um So. The

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<v Speaker 1>Savo man Eaters are two African lions who in eight

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<v Speaker 1>who were named locally the Ghost and the Darkness, killed

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<v Speaker 1>workers on the East Africa Railroad at the Savo River

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<v Speaker 1>which is today modern day Savo National Park in Kenya.

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<v Speaker 1>If you go to do a google on Savo, it's

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<v Speaker 1>spelled t s A v O. Yes it is um Now,

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<v Speaker 1>those lions, because of what they were doing to the

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<v Speaker 1>people who were there, they actually stopped the railroad project

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<v Speaker 1>that was going on. And it wasn't until they were

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<v Speaker 1>eventually killed by British Army Colonel John Patterson that the

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<v Speaker 1>project could move forward and complete at least the part

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<v Speaker 1>that he was responsible for. But our mystery here, we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna to tell the story. But our mystery here is

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<v Speaker 1>why did they do it? Why? Like, why did the

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<v Speaker 1>lions kill the humans? Yes? Not not Why did the

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<v Speaker 1>British build a railroad? It's because because they were hungry?

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<v Speaker 1>Well what motivated him? Since lions are typically known to

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<v Speaker 1>hunt humans and they were they were taking out according

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<v Speaker 1>to the story great swabs of people. Well, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>they are cats and cats are jerks. Maybe that you

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<v Speaker 1>just alienated all of our feline listeners. Steva doesn't have

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<v Speaker 1>a comeback for that. We'll go ahead and just start

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<v Speaker 1>the story. Uh. In eight the British had decided to

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<v Speaker 1>build a railroad in their East Africa and colony UH.

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<v Speaker 1>And that was gonna run from the port city of Mombasa,

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<v Speaker 1>which is in modern day Kenya, and then that rail

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<v Speaker 1>line was going to run all the way to Lake

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<v Speaker 1>Victoria and then go on to Uganda. And officially it

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<v Speaker 1>was named the Uganda Railroad, but unofficially it was called

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<v Speaker 1>the Lunatic Line. And that's because there was a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people in Parliament who didn't think that it was

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<v Speaker 1>worth it and they should be doing it. They described

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<v Speaker 1>it as the railroad that ran from nowhere to nowhere.

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<v Speaker 1>It's kind of like that high speed rail project in

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<v Speaker 1>California something like that. Um Officially, what the British were

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<v Speaker 1>hoping was that it would encourage people to move into

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<v Speaker 1>the interior of Africa and provide a method for transporting

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<v Speaker 1>trade products between Africa and Europe. And by people, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean British citizens because it was a colony and they

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to get citizens in there, because that's how they

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<v Speaker 1>were going to tame the What did they call it,

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<v Speaker 1>It was the darkest Africa, Darkest Africa, Yeah, I think

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<v Speaker 1>that was what they called that. They considered it a

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<v Speaker 1>land of savages at the time. Is the way that

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<v Speaker 1>you see it describe it. I mean again it was

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<v Speaker 1>like the yes, yeah, so this is this is based

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<v Speaker 1>on writings at that time that that was there. That

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<v Speaker 1>was their description. Yeah, I don't know that. The term

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<v Speaker 1>was actually based on the complexions of the people who

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<v Speaker 1>lived there, like sort of the you like her kind

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<v Speaker 1>of heart of darkness kind of yeah exactly. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it was it was a hard place to get to. Um. Now, unofficially,

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<v Speaker 1>this railroad was also it was also intended to provide

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<v Speaker 1>an alternative method to what the standard method of getting

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<v Speaker 1>things from the interior of Africa to the coast was

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<v Speaker 1>which was on foot, which is a long, long walk.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a long hike, and I have a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people to carry all that stuff you do. Importers aren't cheap,

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<v Speaker 1>and because cheap labor is kind of important when you're

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<v Speaker 1>you're trading, there was a blossoming slave trade. So there

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<v Speaker 1>was tons of slaves that were being picked up in

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<v Speaker 1>that entire region and then they would be walking in

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<v Speaker 1>and out until eventually they die. So we're talking cheap

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<v Speaker 1>as free, not like underpaid. You got to buy a slave,

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<v Speaker 1>so it's not technically free. You're not paying wages, correct,

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<v Speaker 1>So therefore you're not gonna you're not gonna spend a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of money on people. You just kitch product. You

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<v Speaker 1>hoofed into town. If somebody dies on the ways, whoops,

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<v Speaker 1>you're out whatever you paid for them. Then it's on

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<v Speaker 1>back down the road. Now, wonder how many slaves it

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<v Speaker 1>took to carry a car. That's the weirdest question you've

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<v Speaker 1>asked me in a while. Um, now, it did. It

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<v Speaker 1>did eventually help bring the slave trade down, It wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>the reason that the slave trade would eventually trade line. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because if you can throw things on a train. It's

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<v Speaker 1>way cheaper and easier unless morally wrong. Yeah, for the

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<v Speaker 1>people who have who cared, I mean people who are

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<v Speaker 1>buying and selling slaves typically probably don't have a compunction

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<v Speaker 1>to worry about that. Yeah. A lot of people still

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<v Speaker 1>back in those days thought it was okay. Yeah, it

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<v Speaker 1>was standard fair. Um. So they're gonna build this railroad

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<v Speaker 1>and thousands of labors are brought in and they are

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<v Speaker 1>Indie in and Chinese. So yeah, there was it was

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<v Speaker 1>Indians and there was Chinese brought in. Um they were

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<v Speaker 1>they were all as a group. The British referred to

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<v Speaker 1>him as coolies. They were their labors. Um did the

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<v Speaker 1>Alliance have a preference for one group of the other,

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<v Speaker 1>Not that I know of. Um. So the railroad itself

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<v Speaker 1>was gonna be a total of five eighty miles long,

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<v Speaker 1>and when it was done it we had crossed valleys

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<v Speaker 1>and rivers. Crazy though it took thirty years to complete.

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<v Speaker 1>It started in eight It reached Nairobi in like Victoria

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen o one, and then it took almost thirty

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<v Speaker 1>or twenty seven more years for it to eventually get

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<v Speaker 1>to Kampala, Uganda. That's a long time. Yeah, I think

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<v Speaker 1>that there was some political tensions going on. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that mostly it was and I don't mean political tensions

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<v Speaker 1>in the area, I mean political tensions in Britain in

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<v Speaker 1>the Parliament of why are we dumping more money into this?

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<v Speaker 1>So that's why I didn't it and get very well

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<v Speaker 1>funded at that point, So we're gonna go to This

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<v Speaker 1>is two years after the construction has begun. The rail

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<v Speaker 1>line has reached the Tsavo River in Kenya, which is

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<v Speaker 1>about a hundred and thirty miles away from Ambassa. Actually

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<v Speaker 1>pretty good progress. It actually is pretty good progress for

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<v Speaker 1>our rail line is being built by hand um And

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<v Speaker 1>what they have to do is they have to cross

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<v Speaker 1>a river, so they build a temporary bridge so that

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<v Speaker 1>they can keep working on the rail line, and then

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<v Speaker 1>in place of that temporary bridge, they pull it down

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<v Speaker 1>and they're going to start putting in the actual bridge

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<v Speaker 1>because right so, because why do you want to wait

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<v Speaker 1>all this time for the bridge to be done when

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<v Speaker 1>you can keep making forward? Progress makes total sense. So

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<v Speaker 1>what they do is in March of that year they

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<v Speaker 1>bring in British Army Colonel John Patterson UM and he's

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<v Speaker 1>brought in from India because he was evidently he was

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<v Speaker 1>great with bridges and that was his thing at during

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<v Speaker 1>during the construction of the bridge, Like I said, the

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<v Speaker 1>they're gonna be building the bridge, and the rail line

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<v Speaker 1>itself is gonna keep moving forward the leading edge of

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<v Speaker 1>the line as they're constructing it. And this what happened

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<v Speaker 1>is that the camps, because the men who are working

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<v Speaker 1>on the line have to sleep at night, so they

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<v Speaker 1>set up temporary camps and their camps from the bridge forward,

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<v Speaker 1>over time starts spread out about over a twenty mile area,

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<v Speaker 1>so it's pretty big swath area. Well it's not, but

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's within a couple of days to a

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<v Speaker 1>week of Patterson arriving that men start disappearing. And I

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<v Speaker 1>was gonna say no. One immediately was like a crap, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>because all of the workers come to him and say

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<v Speaker 1>they're being dragged out of their tents at night by

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<v Speaker 1>a lion, and he's like, no, that's not really happening.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't really believe you. Uh. And eventually he does

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<v Speaker 1>go with them. They find a bot. And I've read

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<v Speaker 1>the accounting of it, and if you from the description

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<v Speaker 1>of it, it was pretty obvious that it was a

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<v Speaker 1>big cat that must have been doing it. So at

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<v Speaker 1>that point he's on board, and eventually the workers would

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<v Speaker 1>figure out that there wasn't just one, but there was

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<v Speaker 1>actually two lions. Not to be racist, but how could

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<v Speaker 1>they tell with two different lions? Wait, okay, so you're

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<v Speaker 1>you're actually and you actually you actually praised it like

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<v Speaker 1>a joke, but it's an actual question. When you see

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<v Speaker 1>two lions at the same time, you know that there's

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<v Speaker 1>more than one. Okay, I mean, I guess I just

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<v Speaker 1>thought that male lions hunted alone. Apparently these these two

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<v Speaker 1>sort of had a had alliance their brothers. It was

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<v Speaker 1>later determined that they were brothers. But the thing is,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're going to talk a little bit more about

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<v Speaker 1>these kind of lions in just a moment, but males

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<v Speaker 1>will be with a pride of females, and if male

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't have a pride, then he's just gonna row. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>males will work together to hunt because it's mutually beneficial,

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<v Speaker 1>at least for a certain amount of time. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>not completely unheard of to have a couple of males

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<v Speaker 1>just kicking around at the same time together. Okay, it's

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<v Speaker 1>actually I would be really handy for having because I

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<v Speaker 1>mean just you know, like go spook some gazelles and

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<v Speaker 1>driving towards your bro you know. Well, I mean that's

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<v Speaker 1>why you know, wolves hunting packs, a lot of animals

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<v Speaker 1>hunting packs, because the big cats do it all the time,

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<v Speaker 1>except for usually not two males. No, no, but and

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<v Speaker 1>so let's let's go ahead and talk about this. Because

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<v Speaker 1>the lions that are in question here are Savo lions,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're different than the lions that I think most

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<v Speaker 1>people think of are familiar with, which is the lions

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<v Speaker 1>of the Serengetti. So there's there's some physical differences and

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<v Speaker 1>there's some behavioral differences. The bigger, for one thing, they are,

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<v Speaker 1>They are much bigger, and they also don't have mains.

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<v Speaker 1>So a normal you know, the Sengetti lion has that

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<v Speaker 1>big giant mane that's so iconic, but these lions don't.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's not understood why. There's some ideas that maybe

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<v Speaker 1>it's because of the fact that that region is hotter

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<v Speaker 1>than the Serengetti. Yeah, I think that is a reasonable Well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's a good reason. Um Or there's also the idea

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<v Speaker 1>that because the landscape in that area is very scrubby,

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<v Speaker 1>it's scrub brush, and it's very thorny scrub. So if

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<v Speaker 1>an animal is squeezing through brush, either the main is

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<v Speaker 1>gonna get caught or you're gonna get all kinds of

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<v Speaker 1>stuff caught. In the main, they have a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a main, so they have they do have scruff

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<v Speaker 1>occasionally if they have a main. I love that. I

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<v Speaker 1>was looking at a drawing and they show just in

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<v Speaker 1>front of the ears they then they literally call it

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<v Speaker 1>the side burn and the beard because it's it's almost

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<v Speaker 1>never fully encompassing or going all the way around the

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<v Speaker 1>neck like you see traditionally. But I guess these two

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<v Speaker 1>I was just looking at pictures. Did they had a

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<v Speaker 1>little little, tiny, very little bit of main. Well. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's the hard part though, is that if you look

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<v Speaker 1>at the pictures of these particular lions in the I

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<v Speaker 1>can't remember what museum they're in right now, that those

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<v Speaker 1>are the skins of those lions after they were rugs

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<v Speaker 1>for about twenty years, so they weren't in great condition

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<v Speaker 1>when they were brought in. If you look at the

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<v Speaker 1>photos from after they were shot, it doesn't look like

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<v Speaker 1>there's a whole lot there then, but it's also not

0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.559
<v Speaker 1>they're old images. It's really hard to tell. Yeah, but

0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.600
<v Speaker 1>apparently they were skillfully restored and now they're they're stuff

0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:28.920
<v Speaker 1>that looked like the real thing they do, except they're smaller.

0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:32.640
<v Speaker 1>They're much smaller than they would be normally because of

0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.240
<v Speaker 1>the fact that they were skinned to make into rugs

0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:40.320
<v Speaker 1>and not to make into replicas exactly mannequins or whatever

0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.320
<v Speaker 1>you wanna call it. I can't think, Yeah, they had

0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.960
<v Speaker 1>trimmed away parts of the skins, but there's aren't they

0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:52.080
<v Speaker 1>in Chicago The Field Museum in um Chicago, Illinois. Thanks

0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:54.280
<v Speaker 1>looking up. I knew it was feel something I can

0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:57.160
<v Speaker 1>remember what it was. Um. Well, let's talk a little

0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.079
<v Speaker 1>bit more about Savo lions, though it's a cup of

0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.280
<v Speaker 1>things more to talk about here. We talked about the

0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.720
<v Speaker 1>fact that they're larger than the Serengetti lions, and it's

0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.960
<v Speaker 1>believed that that might be that they're actually a more

0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:13.160
<v Speaker 1>primitive version of the lion, because if you see apparently

0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:15.559
<v Speaker 1>if you look at the drawings from like the Egyptians,

0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.000
<v Speaker 1>because there was lions running around at two thousand years

0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.920
<v Speaker 1>ago in that region, they look the same. They don't

0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.200
<v Speaker 1>have a main and they're very large and the illustrations,

0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.560
<v Speaker 1>So that's one of the reasons. The other thing is

0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:31.800
<v Speaker 1>that these lions are not The males especially are notably

0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:36.960
<v Speaker 1>super aggressive because they have really high levels of testosterone,

0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:42.040
<v Speaker 1>so they are prone to their automatic reaction is to attack,

0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:44.840
<v Speaker 1>just because they're always kind of their dudes, they're totally

0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:52.280
<v Speaker 1>worked up all the time. I know that. Yeah, so um,

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:54.760
<v Speaker 1>we'll go back to the story though. As I said,

0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.520
<v Speaker 1>the workers were spread over a large area again about

0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:02.480
<v Speaker 1>ten twenty miles, and the lions started to attack, and

0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.840
<v Speaker 1>they were attack primarily at night. They didn't show up

0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:08.520
<v Speaker 1>every night, so it wasn't as if it was every

0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:11.520
<v Speaker 1>single night they were there. Half a human is a

0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.040
<v Speaker 1>lot of meal. I would say human would make a

0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.560
<v Speaker 1>couple of days. The other thing, though, is that when

0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:21.560
<v Speaker 1>they showed up, they were much more likely to attack

0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:25.200
<v Speaker 1>the livestock as they were the people, because you gotta remember,

0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.520
<v Speaker 1>it's a camp of workers who have to have work

0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.800
<v Speaker 1>animals or draft animals, and they've also got to feed themselves,

0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:35.480
<v Speaker 1>so there's tons of livestock around, so it's whatever seemed

0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:40.840
<v Speaker 1>most convenient pickens whenever it was easy pickings. Yes, I

0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:42.200
<v Speaker 1>think if I was putting up my tent. If I

0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.240
<v Speaker 1>wasn't one of them workers, I would like stick goats

0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:49.720
<v Speaker 1>and cows all around it. Yeah. Well, you know, the

0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.840
<v Speaker 1>thing is is that they did. Everybody was trying to

0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:58.200
<v Speaker 1>keep the lions out. So what the coolies would do

0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.600
<v Speaker 1>is they would they would build fences. They were called

0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:05.160
<v Speaker 1>boma fences, and they would use the local acacia, which

0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.640
<v Speaker 1>is a super thorny tree and bush, and they build

0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:10.440
<v Speaker 1>fences out of that, so it's, you know, it's a

0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.400
<v Speaker 1>it's a barbed wire fence of nature at this point.

0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.560
<v Speaker 1>And they would also like big camp fires and keep

0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:18.960
<v Speaker 1>those fires going all night long in the hopes that

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.560
<v Speaker 1>the sound and the light would keep the lions from

0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.840
<v Speaker 1>coming in. It didn't didn't work so well because the

0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:30.000
<v Speaker 1>lions kept getting through the fences and kept yeah, they

0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:34.200
<v Speaker 1>were there. Well, there's a there's a really interesting account

0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:38.400
<v Speaker 1>where a lion actually got into a tent where a

0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:43.400
<v Speaker 1>guy was sleeping, and in the scuffle and panic ended

0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.840
<v Speaker 1>up grabbing the mattress, the sleeping mattress the guy had

0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.080
<v Speaker 1>and running away with that. And so the guy got

0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.000
<v Speaker 1>away into lion got a couple of I'm guessing a

0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.360
<v Speaker 1>couple of yards, realized it didn't have its prey and

0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:57.600
<v Speaker 1>dropped it and continued. I feel like that might say

0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.920
<v Speaker 1>something bad about the state of the worker, that they

0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.920
<v Speaker 1>were easily mistaken for a mattress. Well, I think it's

0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:08.080
<v Speaker 1>in the dark, in a tent, in the scuffle with

0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:12.000
<v Speaker 1>the smells are your primary it's a sleeping pad that

0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:16.080
<v Speaker 1>you sleep on or a mattress. Things, Well, maybe it is.

0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:19.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. You're right, Okay, you're right. A mattress

0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:23.320
<v Speaker 1>and a human are interchangeable. They are. That's why I

0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.520
<v Speaker 1>have one sitting in my cube right now at the office.

0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Everybody thinks I'm working diligently, wait till they realize it's

0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:35.440
<v Speaker 1>sorta all right. So April of that year, um. At

0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.800
<v Speaker 1>this point, Paterson has been there for about a month

0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:41.959
<v Speaker 1>or so, and now the rail line is extended forty

0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:46.280
<v Speaker 1>miles away from the Tsavo, and there's only a couple

0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.560
<v Speaker 1>of hundred workers left at the camp who are building

0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:53.600
<v Speaker 1>the bridge. And because this is where, you know, the

0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.879
<v Speaker 1>bulk of the humans have moved on, and the camp

0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.040
<v Speaker 1>is around the bridge, that's where the lions start to

0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:06.440
<v Speaker 1>focus their attacks exactly. And so Patterson he he um.

0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:08.480
<v Speaker 1>So he was brought in from India, where he had

0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.720
<v Speaker 1>done a whole bunch of lion or not lion but

0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.399
<v Speaker 1>tiger hunting, and so he considered himself a hunter of

0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.240
<v Speaker 1>big cats. What he would do is he would climb

0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:18.960
<v Speaker 1>a tree at night and he would sit in the

0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:23.520
<v Speaker 1>tree all night long hoping that he could spot and

0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:27.280
<v Speaker 1>then shoot one of the lions. Obviously, he didn't have

0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.320
<v Speaker 1>a whole lot of luck with it. The you know,

0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:32.640
<v Speaker 1>he's in a tree. One night, the lions show up,

0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:37.160
<v Speaker 1>They get into the hospital tent and they take somebody away.

0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:41.239
<v Speaker 1>So he says, move the move the hospital tent. So

0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:45.080
<v Speaker 1>they do. The lion goes to the new location of

0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.439
<v Speaker 1>the hospital tent and take somebody else away. I think

0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:51.639
<v Speaker 1>it was the water boy. Um takes him away. So

0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:53.560
<v Speaker 1>then they do it a third time. They moved the

0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.040
<v Speaker 1>tent a third time, and I'm like, why is he doing?

0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:59.280
<v Speaker 1>Does he not realize that lions can smell? Like, why

0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:03.760
<v Speaker 1>are you moving it? Yea, they're not stupid, but these

0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:05.560
<v Speaker 1>ones particularly, And what he did this time when he

0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:07.600
<v Speaker 1>moved to hospital to the third time, as he put

0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.199
<v Speaker 1>up this rail car contraction that he had designed and

0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.000
<v Speaker 1>had cattle in it, and the idea I think was

0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.480
<v Speaker 1>that to get the lion in, shut the door so

0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.280
<v Speaker 1>the lion couldn't get out, and then you could, you know,

0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.480
<v Speaker 1>shooting fish in a barrel, lions in a car kind

0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:26.440
<v Speaker 1>of the same thing for him, except it didn't work out.

0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.320
<v Speaker 1>The lion got a cow, got in, got the cow,

0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.760
<v Speaker 1>got it out of the car, but then couldn't figure

0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:33.639
<v Speaker 1>out how to get it through the fence, and eventually

0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:38.000
<v Speaker 1>took off through the fence. So when the thing I

0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:41.200
<v Speaker 1>guess what happened though, is that Patterson and the camp doctor,

0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.920
<v Speaker 1>because it was near where the hospital site was, were

0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.600
<v Speaker 1>out there at night, and the lion at that point,

0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.359
<v Speaker 1>instead of trying to continue to drag the cow out

0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:56.520
<v Speaker 1>of the fence, turned around and started stalking these two guys. Yeah. Yeah,

0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.200
<v Speaker 1>So obviously it's very aggressive. When I have just killed something,

0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:01.320
<v Speaker 1>I can't get it, I'm gonna kill something else. I'm

0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:04.520
<v Speaker 1>still hungry. I'm I'm totally still hungry. Um. So it

0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.680
<v Speaker 1>did eventually attempt to attack them, and this is where

0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.439
<v Speaker 1>Patterson shot at it, and he said he managed to

0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:14.159
<v Speaker 1>wound it by shooting one of its teeth, and that

0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:18.359
<v Speaker 1>scared it away enough and the whole tooth thing is

0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:22.520
<v Speaker 1>supported with the actual jaw of one of the lions.

0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:26.639
<v Speaker 1>There is a broken tooth. Now, whether that tooth was

0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.640
<v Speaker 1>shot by him or broken in some other manner, that's

0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:34.320
<v Speaker 1>that's in dispute. But it seems weird. It seems like

0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:37.720
<v Speaker 1>a hell of a lucky shot. Well, it seems it

0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:39.800
<v Speaker 1>would kill the lion shoot him in the head basically,

0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:41.800
<v Speaker 1>Well not if you shoot it from the side or

0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:44.280
<v Speaker 1>from it or you know, or if it goes out.

0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:47.280
<v Speaker 1>Think of if it went through the cheek. Yeah, I

0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:49.640
<v Speaker 1>suppose it could have been deflected. Yeah, I mean, there's

0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.440
<v Speaker 1>there's a bunch of ways that this could happen either way.

0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:54.520
<v Speaker 1>Like I said, I don't I think that mostly it

0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:56.200
<v Speaker 1>was right there and he shot it, scared the holy

0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:58.400
<v Speaker 1>crap at him, and it took off. But that's that's

0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:00.840
<v Speaker 1>just my opinion. So of core. Okay, so we've got

0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:03.360
<v Speaker 1>the whole He shot at the mouth. The lions then

0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:06.280
<v Speaker 1>take off for a while, and they leave the camp

0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.399
<v Speaker 1>for several weeks, and I'm sure Patterson is just relieved

0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:11.600
<v Speaker 1>and thinking, well, yeah, I got rid of them. Scared

0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:14.640
<v Speaker 1>him off, I did it. Yeah, unbeknownst that's what British

0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:19.040
<v Speaker 1>accents sound like. Right, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um.

0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:22.800
<v Speaker 1>Unbeknownst to him, what the lions had been doing during

0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:26.000
<v Speaker 1>that couple of weeks was actually stalking um some of

0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:29.600
<v Speaker 1>the other construction camps that were farther away. And they

0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:32.400
<v Speaker 1>do eventually return to the bridge site. This is several

0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:36.280
<v Speaker 1>weeks later. One of the cats enters and drags a

0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:39.680
<v Speaker 1>worker away, and these and and both of them show

0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:41.399
<v Speaker 1>up to the body of this worker. And this is

0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:44.119
<v Speaker 1>how brazen they get. After a while, they only dragged

0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:47.160
<v Speaker 1>the body thirty feet away from the thirty yards away

0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:50.520
<v Speaker 1>from the camp and then begin to have their meal.

0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:55.520
<v Speaker 1>So they're obviously not intimidated by people, which at this

0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:58.479
<v Speaker 1>point I'd be thinking of a career change. Yeah, me too.

0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:02.080
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't. I wouldn't be there, No, not at all.

0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:05.639
<v Speaker 1>And and so this this continues for months. These lions

0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:08.040
<v Speaker 1>can keep coming back and they keep making a kill

0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.280
<v Speaker 1>and taking something, whether it be human or a four

0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:15.280
<v Speaker 1>legged critter away as a meal. We get to the

0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.320
<v Speaker 1>first of December and at this point most of the

0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:21.000
<v Speaker 1>workers board the train and they leave. They've they've kind

0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.080
<v Speaker 1>of had enough that there's just this is not worth it,

0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:28.119
<v Speaker 1>and they're gone. There's some people yeah, yeah, it makes sense.

0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:30.480
<v Speaker 1>There's some people left, there's some workers who are going

0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:33.640
<v Speaker 1>to try and stay on. On the ninth of December,

0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:37.920
<v Speaker 1>one of the lions manages to kill a donkey that's

0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:41.520
<v Speaker 1>in camp, and Patterson sees this is his opportunity. And

0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:43.359
<v Speaker 1>what he does is he has a bunch of guys

0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:46.320
<v Speaker 1>go around behind it and then come at it, making

0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:49.040
<v Speaker 1>as much noise as they can to startle it, to

0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:51.720
<v Speaker 1>scare it out into the open so that he can,

0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:55.879
<v Speaker 1>you know, shoot it. Well, he does manage to hit it.

0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:59.160
<v Speaker 1>He does manage to wound the lion, but it gets away,

0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:01.240
<v Speaker 1>but he's pretty sure that it's going to come back

0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:05.080
<v Speaker 1>because it wants to get the meal the donkey. So

0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:09.000
<v Speaker 1>what does he do. He builds a platform that he

0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:12.479
<v Speaker 1>can sit on and be in a perch. He waits,

0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:16.520
<v Speaker 1>uh lo and behold, the lion comes back, but this

0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:19.800
<v Speaker 1>time it doesn't come back for the donkey. It instead

0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:25.320
<v Speaker 1>is uh it's it approaches Patterson on his perch instead

0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:29.399
<v Speaker 1>of going to the donkey. Yeah. Are we doing that

0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.080
<v Speaker 1>thing that we do when we listen to Steve stories

0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:36.520
<v Speaker 1>where we do like the Grandios storytelling of the night

0:23:36.880 --> 0:23:40.080
<v Speaker 1>and then go back and like talk about stuff. So

0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:43.119
<v Speaker 1>here's the thing is that, from what I can tell,

0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:45.840
<v Speaker 1>the majority of the story comes from Patterson himself. So

0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:49.000
<v Speaker 1>the details, the accounts of how it happened, he was

0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:51.320
<v Speaker 1>this was something that happened. A lot of guys would do.

0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:54.600
<v Speaker 1>Is you would be off somewhere and you'd write at

0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:56.840
<v Speaker 1>a you know, a bit of an adventure that it happened.

0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:59.360
<v Speaker 1>You'd sell it to newspapers. And it seems that that's

0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:02.119
<v Speaker 1>what Patterson is doing. And then eventually he collected those

0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:04.639
<v Speaker 1>and he put those into a book that he wrote,

0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:09.120
<v Speaker 1>and that's where almost all of this story is sourced from. Now,

0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:12.280
<v Speaker 1>the lions are real, and it is the fact that

0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:16.800
<v Speaker 1>they were killing people is real. Now his they were

0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:19.399
<v Speaker 1>talking me and they came after me and I shot.

0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:23.320
<v Speaker 1>It's Canaine tooth off. That's that's all Patterson. That's all Patterson.

0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:29.919
<v Speaker 1>And there's no reason not to believe them. There there is. Okay,

0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:32.600
<v Speaker 1>So let's talk about this briefly. Let me finish what

0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:34.400
<v Speaker 1>happens to this line, and then I want to talk

0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:37.520
<v Speaker 1>about something to follow up on that. What happens with

0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:41.000
<v Speaker 1>this line is that it's circling underneath him while he's

0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:44.480
<v Speaker 1>in his perch, and he goes ahead and takes more

0:24:44.520 --> 0:24:47.840
<v Speaker 1>shots at it. He does manage to hit it. Um,

0:24:47.880 --> 0:24:51.280
<v Speaker 1>he hits it two more times and manages to kill it.

0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:54.520
<v Speaker 1>So he took a total of three bullets to put

0:24:54.560 --> 0:24:57.960
<v Speaker 1>this creature down. Um. Now, I want to talk real

0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:01.199
<v Speaker 1>briefly about his writings and his book. Did either of

0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:04.000
<v Speaker 1>you get a chance? It's all available online to skim

0:25:04.040 --> 0:25:07.919
<v Speaker 1>through any of that not. Okay, so it's not the

0:25:07.960 --> 0:25:10.520
<v Speaker 1>greatest read in the world. But what's very funny is

0:25:10.560 --> 0:25:13.359
<v Speaker 1>that about the first third to half of the book

0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:17.360
<v Speaker 1>is dedicated to this story, and then after that it's

0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:21.880
<v Speaker 1>all his accounts of hunting big cats. So he becomes

0:25:21.920 --> 0:25:25.200
<v Speaker 1>the man eater killer. So he goes hunting after lions.

0:25:25.240 --> 0:25:28.680
<v Speaker 1>He starts hunting tigers again. Um. So he's like a

0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:32.880
<v Speaker 1>dentist's son something like that, excepted like when you when

0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:36.159
<v Speaker 1>you get into his stories, it's I shot the beast

0:25:36.280 --> 0:25:38.840
<v Speaker 1>and it left back up and charged back at me.

0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:42.720
<v Speaker 1>Like he always describes these things as if they are

0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:48.600
<v Speaker 1>they're just amazingly resilient and impervious to bullets. You know,

0:25:48.640 --> 0:25:50.840
<v Speaker 1>the bullet went right through it, but it didn't phaze it.

0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:54.440
<v Speaker 1>It kept running at me, does happen. That does happen.

0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:57.760
<v Speaker 1>But when you read one after the next after the

0:25:57.800 --> 0:26:00.520
<v Speaker 1>next that has the same kind of discus options of

0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:05.040
<v Speaker 1>the events, that's when I worry a little bit about it.

0:26:05.119 --> 0:26:07.600
<v Speaker 1>So some of this may have you know, I don't

0:26:07.600 --> 0:26:11.720
<v Speaker 1>know how much he I don't want to say inflated

0:26:10.880 --> 0:26:18.760
<v Speaker 1>bedazzle the dazzle fact. So you actually tigerheading especially is dangerous.

0:26:19.400 --> 0:26:21.480
<v Speaker 1>I saw this incredible video this It was like a

0:26:21.600 --> 0:26:24.280
<v Speaker 1>first person's shotgun of thing. Someone just holding a camera

0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:26.800
<v Speaker 1>riding on the back of an elephant, I assume in India,

0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:30.919
<v Speaker 1>and it runs up on the elephant suddenly suddenly it

0:26:30.960 --> 0:26:32.680
<v Speaker 1>just comes charging out of the grass and then I

0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:34.879
<v Speaker 1>just like babies on the elephant come upside of the

0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:37.520
<v Speaker 1>elephant and that's the end of it. Yeah, So I

0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:41.400
<v Speaker 1>I assume whoever was holding the camera died. I think

0:26:41.440 --> 0:26:43.680
<v Speaker 1>I remember that one. And I don't think that person died.

0:26:43.760 --> 0:26:46.479
<v Speaker 1>I think that's just where the video broke. We should

0:26:46.480 --> 0:26:49.240
<v Speaker 1>just make clear, if it's not abundantly clear already, we

0:26:49.280 --> 0:26:55.120
<v Speaker 1>are not advocating hunting of game like it's horrible. Well

0:26:55.200 --> 0:26:58.159
<v Speaker 1>unless they're but and if they're actually killing people, that

0:26:58.280 --> 0:27:00.119
<v Speaker 1>I can sort of sure. If it's like I have

0:27:00.160 --> 0:27:02.879
<v Speaker 1>to put this animal down for safety, fine, that's a

0:27:02.960 --> 0:27:07.840
<v Speaker 1>totally different thing. We're talking about a late nineteenth century event.

0:27:08.160 --> 0:27:12.840
<v Speaker 1>This was commonplace at the time. It was believed. Everybody

0:27:12.880 --> 0:27:15.880
<v Speaker 1>believed that this was. Okay, there's tons of these animals.

0:27:15.920 --> 0:27:18.560
<v Speaker 1>We can't it doesn't matter. Yeah, I just mean that,

0:27:18.680 --> 0:27:23.520
<v Speaker 1>as we're starting to talk about, you know, it's really dangerous, dangerous.

0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:25.920
<v Speaker 1>So don't well that's that story Joe's talking about. I

0:27:25.920 --> 0:27:27.919
<v Speaker 1>don't think that's an actual tiger hunt. That is just

0:27:28.040 --> 0:27:32.640
<v Speaker 1>somebody on the back of an elephant. I just want

0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:36.720
<v Speaker 1>to make sure that everyone knows that we are not appreciate.

0:27:36.840 --> 0:27:39.960
<v Speaker 1>And I agree with you there. Okay, So what happened

0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:42.280
<v Speaker 1>to the second lion? Okay, so at this point we've

0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:44.880
<v Speaker 1>only got one lion um and a couple of nights later,

0:27:44.960 --> 0:27:48.600
<v Speaker 1>it comes back to camp and it attacks two goats,

0:27:48.720 --> 0:27:52.000
<v Speaker 1>and so Patterson decides, well, you know what, I evidently

0:27:52.040 --> 0:27:54.800
<v Speaker 1>it's got a taste for goats. I'm gonna put a

0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:57.680
<v Speaker 1>couple of more goats out, and he ties three goats

0:27:57.680 --> 0:28:01.360
<v Speaker 1>out to a railroad tie. Early, so partial railroad tie,

0:28:01.400 --> 0:28:06.320
<v Speaker 1>and if anybody's picked up a railroad tie. They're freaking heavy. Well,

0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:09.600
<v Speaker 1>this lion shows up, kills one of the goats and

0:28:09.640 --> 0:28:14.960
<v Speaker 1>then drags it and the railroad tie away, well presumably

0:28:15.000 --> 0:28:17.960
<v Speaker 1>also the other two goats. You know, as I reread this,

0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:20.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm wondering if maybe it was three goats tied to

0:28:20.359 --> 0:28:24.760
<v Speaker 1>three individual railroad ties would make more sense. Probably. Um.

0:28:24.800 --> 0:28:28.959
<v Speaker 1>So they, of course they go ahead and they you

0:28:29.000 --> 0:28:31.480
<v Speaker 1>know that he takes shots at it because he's such

0:28:31.520 --> 0:28:33.800
<v Speaker 1>a good shot. He puts like three or four or

0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:35.879
<v Speaker 1>five shots at it, but he had never managed to

0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:40.240
<v Speaker 1>hit it. Um, it was it was dark. It was dark.

0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:42.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm I'm being a little bit of a jerk to Patterson.

0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:44.920
<v Speaker 1>It was it was dark at night. There wasn't a

0:28:44.920 --> 0:28:47.840
<v Speaker 1>whole lot of light. But the next day they he

0:28:47.960 --> 0:28:52.640
<v Speaker 1>and several workers follow the trail and they find um,

0:28:52.800 --> 0:28:56.520
<v Speaker 1>they find the lion. Uh it ran off. So at

0:28:56.520 --> 0:28:59.400
<v Speaker 1>this point he goes ahead and he builds himself another platform.

0:29:00.160 --> 0:29:03.920
<v Speaker 1>One was bad. Well, they were both hunting people in

0:29:04.000 --> 0:29:07.840
<v Speaker 1>the camps. It wasn't like one st oh Billy lion

0:29:07.880 --> 0:29:10.680
<v Speaker 1>always stays at camp and Timmy Lyon always goes and

0:29:10.760 --> 0:29:14.440
<v Speaker 1>hunts the people. They were both doing it. So he

0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:17.840
<v Speaker 1>builds himself another perch. He's sitting on the perch um

0:29:17.880 --> 0:29:21.960
<v Speaker 1>that night and the lion returns and he does manage

0:29:22.000 --> 0:29:25.280
<v Speaker 1>to shoot it twice. Evidently he had a double barrel

0:29:25.320 --> 0:29:29.480
<v Speaker 1>gun and the lion walked directly underneath his perch, and

0:29:29.560 --> 0:29:32.959
<v Speaker 1>he simply enough pointed down and pulled both triggers and

0:29:33.120 --> 0:29:38.040
<v Speaker 1>shot its. Quite a kick. It had to be those

0:29:38.040 --> 0:29:40.400
<v Speaker 1>big game guns in Africa. There's those double barreled ones

0:29:41.840 --> 0:29:46.360
<v Speaker 1>for enormous rounds. Yeah. Yeah, So he shoots it, but

0:29:46.440 --> 0:29:50.239
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't actually kill it, and it takes off, and

0:29:51.560 --> 0:29:54.240
<v Speaker 1>they are and and this lion stays away for another

0:29:54.240 --> 0:29:57.000
<v Speaker 1>ten days. At this point they're thinking, well, it must

0:29:57.040 --> 0:30:01.400
<v Speaker 1>have died from its wounds. Except then on the twenty

0:30:01.480 --> 0:30:05.160
<v Speaker 1>nine December, it returns and it tries to pull a

0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:08.440
<v Speaker 1>worker who's sleeping in a tree out of the tree.

0:30:09.280 --> 0:30:13.080
<v Speaker 1>Uh it. The guy manages to not be taken, so

0:30:13.280 --> 0:30:16.240
<v Speaker 1>Patterson says, okay, well it likes this tree, you go

0:30:16.320 --> 0:30:19.160
<v Speaker 1>sleep somewhere else. I'm going to climb up into the tree.

0:30:20.000 --> 0:30:23.360
<v Speaker 1>And uh, it does come back, comes back to that tree,

0:30:23.440 --> 0:30:27.640
<v Speaker 1>and he manages to get another another two shots into it,

0:30:27.880 --> 0:30:30.959
<v Speaker 1>at which point it runs away again. In the morning,

0:30:31.320 --> 0:30:35.240
<v Speaker 1>they follow the trail of blood and they do find

0:30:35.440 --> 0:30:39.840
<v Speaker 1>the lion and apparently when they got to it, I'm

0:30:39.880 --> 0:30:42.160
<v Speaker 1>guessing they must have found it kind of cornered because

0:30:42.160 --> 0:30:46.440
<v Speaker 1>it charged him and he dumps so many bullets into it.

0:30:46.480 --> 0:30:49.240
<v Speaker 1>He said he shot it five or six times, so

0:30:49.320 --> 0:30:53.680
<v Speaker 1>he put in like beat multiple guns. He had guys

0:30:54.160 --> 0:30:57.320
<v Speaker 1>carrying loaded weapon. Yeah, yeah, and so he managed to

0:30:57.360 --> 0:30:59.520
<v Speaker 1>put five or six shots into it, so totally like

0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:04.200
<v Speaker 1>now bullets. I just like the idea of a guy

0:31:04.480 --> 0:31:08.000
<v Speaker 1>being like, yeah, yeah, you you seven people carry my guns. No, no,

0:31:08.040 --> 0:31:12.280
<v Speaker 1>don't shoot them, don't help me, just hand them to me.

0:31:13.080 --> 0:31:16.360
<v Speaker 1>You are the worker, I am, I'm the hero. I'm

0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:20.080
<v Speaker 1>the hero. I'm the protagonist of this story, damn it. Yeah.

0:31:20.120 --> 0:31:23.760
<v Speaker 1>And that those people none of them had any experience

0:31:23.760 --> 0:31:27.400
<v Speaker 1>shooting those I mean absolutely, and yes, that's it is

0:31:27.440 --> 0:31:29.560
<v Speaker 1>like taking that story a little far. But I just

0:31:29.680 --> 0:31:32.960
<v Speaker 1>like the image of him saying like, no, no, don't

0:31:33.000 --> 0:31:36.400
<v Speaker 1>help me. And can you see him taking two shots

0:31:36.560 --> 0:31:39.280
<v Speaker 1>as the lion is running at him. He's like bang bang,

0:31:39.640 --> 0:31:42.240
<v Speaker 1>holds the gun back and is waiting for somebody to

0:31:42.320 --> 0:31:46.480
<v Speaker 1>take it. And that's why I yeah, why, like you know,

0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:48.640
<v Speaker 1>a lion is charging you. I don't know why your

0:31:48.680 --> 0:31:52.400
<v Speaker 1>initial reaction wouldn't be I have a gun that's loaded,

0:31:52.600 --> 0:31:55.560
<v Speaker 1>I will aim and pull. Yeah, there's a lot of kicks,

0:31:55.600 --> 0:31:57.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, blah blah blah. But if you know seven

0:31:58.000 --> 0:32:00.040
<v Speaker 1>guns are going off with double barrels at once, the

0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:03.040
<v Speaker 1>chances of hitting that animal are pretty dang good. Instead,

0:32:03.120 --> 0:32:05.000
<v Speaker 1>what a lot of the accounts were, You know what?

0:32:05.040 --> 0:32:09.640
<v Speaker 1>The primary method of getting away from an attacking lion

0:32:09.840 --> 0:32:14.480
<v Speaker 1>was climb a tree. It was so funny. This is

0:32:14.520 --> 0:32:16.680
<v Speaker 1>another thing I picked up from his book. Is And

0:32:16.720 --> 0:32:19.960
<v Speaker 1>then I turned around and so and so who had

0:32:20.000 --> 0:32:23.120
<v Speaker 1>my gun had lost his nerve, And I saw him

0:32:23.160 --> 0:32:26.840
<v Speaker 1>ten feet up the nearest tree, like they would do that.

0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:29.360
<v Speaker 1>So to be able to stand there and hand this

0:32:29.400 --> 0:32:32.800
<v Speaker 1>guy gun after gun that actually takes a lot of

0:32:32.920 --> 0:32:38.200
<v Speaker 1>willpower to to expect not to be just obliterated by

0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:40.400
<v Speaker 1>this angry cat that's running it. It might be that

0:32:40.480 --> 0:32:42.480
<v Speaker 1>there wasn't a tree near by to climb up either,

0:32:42.560 --> 0:32:44.720
<v Speaker 1>so I think I had had no choice. Maybe it's

0:32:44.720 --> 0:32:47.360
<v Speaker 1>also funny to me because I'm pretty sure lions do climb.

0:32:47.640 --> 0:32:51.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, the cats, they can totally sure why they

0:32:51.080 --> 0:32:55.080
<v Speaker 1>would say no, they can't get me up here, definitely not. Well. Yeah,

0:32:55.080 --> 0:32:56.760
<v Speaker 1>but if if there's more than one of you, if

0:32:56.760 --> 0:33:01.440
<v Speaker 1>you're the first up the tree, then and there's the

0:33:01.480 --> 0:33:03.240
<v Speaker 1>fact that when you're smaller and lighter, you can go

0:33:03.360 --> 0:33:05.960
<v Speaker 1>up farther than the lion camp before it gets that's

0:33:06.000 --> 0:33:10.520
<v Speaker 1>my advantage in this world. I can escape lions faster

0:33:11.200 --> 0:33:14.239
<v Speaker 1>or at least higher than anyone else. As long as

0:33:14.240 --> 0:33:17.800
<v Speaker 1>you can jump up and get the branch. That's a problem.

0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:20.920
<v Speaker 1>Um Okay. So at this point Patterson is killed both

0:33:20.960 --> 0:33:24.440
<v Speaker 1>of the lions. He is triumphant. He finishes his bridge,

0:33:25.080 --> 0:33:28.040
<v Speaker 1>and he goes on. Like I said, he writes a

0:33:28.080 --> 0:33:31.520
<v Speaker 1>book and he does all this stuff to kind of

0:33:31.560 --> 0:33:35.240
<v Speaker 1>make a living in in a sense. On his deeds,

0:33:36.560 --> 0:33:41.040
<v Speaker 1>he says that these lions killed at least, if not

0:33:41.240 --> 0:33:44.280
<v Speaker 1>more than a hundred and thirty five men in the

0:33:44.360 --> 0:33:47.120
<v Speaker 1>nine months that they were stalking everybody at the camp.

0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:51.240
<v Speaker 1>That seems like a lot, it really does. That would

0:33:51.240 --> 0:33:54.760
<v Speaker 1>be if you do the math, that is one person

0:33:55.200 --> 0:33:58.400
<v Speaker 1>every other day during the time frame for nine months,

0:33:58.440 --> 0:34:01.240
<v Speaker 1>for nine months. I persely feel that more likely what's

0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:03.840
<v Speaker 1>happening is that people are getting they're scared out of

0:34:03.880 --> 0:34:08.879
<v Speaker 1>their minds and they're bailing. They're they're leaving, and you go, oh,

0:34:08.920 --> 0:34:12.440
<v Speaker 1>well where is he? Uh? I don't know, Well, the

0:34:12.560 --> 0:34:15.600
<v Speaker 1>lion must have got him like that. It also would

0:34:15.640 --> 0:34:19.480
<v Speaker 1>be if if there was some kind of shady you know,

0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:22.640
<v Speaker 1>if the workers were kind of like indentured workers or

0:34:22.680 --> 0:34:24.480
<v Speaker 1>something like that, it would be a good way to

0:34:24.760 --> 0:34:30.120
<v Speaker 1>escape without people going after your family. Maybe. But it

0:34:30.160 --> 0:34:33.000
<v Speaker 1>was but it was imperial written, so it's not like

0:34:33.080 --> 0:34:36.439
<v Speaker 1>they would turn around and say you your your your

0:34:36.480 --> 0:34:39.080
<v Speaker 1>son escaped that ran away from the work. It was.

0:34:39.400 --> 0:34:42.480
<v Speaker 1>They didn't seem to be practicing slavery. I mean they

0:34:42.480 --> 0:34:44.400
<v Speaker 1>were trying to get rid of slavery in the area. No,

0:34:44.480 --> 0:34:46.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't mean slavery, but I just mean, you know,

0:34:46.200 --> 0:34:48.040
<v Speaker 1>if there was some sort of deal that was set up,

0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:51.000
<v Speaker 1>like I'm working off my debt or something, would be

0:34:51.000 --> 0:34:52.640
<v Speaker 1>a really easy way to be like, you know what,

0:34:52.920 --> 0:34:57.120
<v Speaker 1>A lion probably took me. Maybe I don't know that's

0:34:56.920 --> 0:35:00.879
<v Speaker 1>what the arrangement was. I don't either. I just um,

0:35:00.920 --> 0:35:02.680
<v Speaker 1>I do want to point out though, with this hundred

0:35:02.719 --> 0:35:06.200
<v Speaker 1>and thirty five number, that it's probably wrong. Um. As

0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:09.120
<v Speaker 1>we've already been talking about, there is some tests that

0:35:09.120 --> 0:35:13.319
<v Speaker 1>were done with science that I totally don't understand. But

0:35:13.520 --> 0:35:16.840
<v Speaker 1>they did tests on the skin and the hair of

0:35:17.160 --> 0:35:21.880
<v Speaker 1>the lions, and they were looking for delta thirteen C

0:35:22.320 --> 0:35:27.200
<v Speaker 1>and nitrogen fifteen and somehow use that to determine how

0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:33.399
<v Speaker 1>many people each of the lions had eaten, right, Yeah,

0:35:33.440 --> 0:35:35.719
<v Speaker 1>And they figured out that one of them must have

0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:38.360
<v Speaker 1>eaten ten people and the other one must have eaten

0:35:38.400 --> 0:35:41.040
<v Speaker 1>twenty five. So one of them was more likely to

0:35:41.480 --> 0:35:43.399
<v Speaker 1>eat kill and eat a person than the other one.

0:35:43.440 --> 0:35:45.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm guessing the other one was more interested in the

0:35:45.600 --> 0:35:49.239
<v Speaker 1>goats and the horses and the cattle and donkeys and

0:35:49.239 --> 0:35:51.359
<v Speaker 1>everything else that was there. You know, goats a lot

0:35:51.400 --> 0:35:54.920
<v Speaker 1>easier to carry away, true, but it pre Yeah, but

0:35:54.920 --> 0:35:57.160
<v Speaker 1>you gotta eat three goats in a night. You're not

0:35:57.239 --> 0:36:00.399
<v Speaker 1>that big. I don't know. Do you think one goat

0:36:00.400 --> 0:36:02.919
<v Speaker 1>would not be enough? I don't think a goat would

0:36:02.920 --> 0:36:05.960
<v Speaker 1>be enough, But that's just I think a goat is

0:36:06.080 --> 0:36:08.759
<v Speaker 1>the same as half a person or third at least.

0:36:09.760 --> 0:36:16.360
<v Speaker 1>Really yeah, more, I think you're nothing, but send you

0:36:16.520 --> 0:36:19.480
<v Speaker 1>in guts and bone. Sorry, I don't need to goat

0:36:19.520 --> 0:36:23.080
<v Speaker 1>a whole lot. Well I have there. There's not a

0:36:23.160 --> 0:36:27.719
<v Speaker 1>whole lot to them you just buy a six pack.

0:36:29.480 --> 0:36:32.000
<v Speaker 1>That's what the lion was doing. Why is the six

0:36:32.040 --> 0:36:35.480
<v Speaker 1>pack tied to this heavy, heavy thing? Headlon must have

0:36:35.480 --> 0:36:39.040
<v Speaker 1>been so peeved. Yeah, okay, ok, well that is the

0:36:39.120 --> 0:36:41.560
<v Speaker 1>end of the story. So at this point now we

0:36:41.600 --> 0:36:43.760
<v Speaker 1>need to get into the theories because our original question

0:36:43.880 --> 0:36:47.440
<v Speaker 1>is what was it that was driving these two lions

0:36:47.640 --> 0:36:51.720
<v Speaker 1>to be attacking humans sactly. There's a number of theories.

0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:54.880
<v Speaker 1>The first theory that we're going to talk about is

0:36:55.080 --> 0:36:57.640
<v Speaker 1>the slave trade, because, as we said in the beginning,

0:36:57.840 --> 0:37:01.960
<v Speaker 1>slave trade was pretty active in area, and one of

0:37:02.000 --> 0:37:05.279
<v Speaker 1>the very well known behaviors slave traders is that if

0:37:05.280 --> 0:37:10.000
<v Speaker 1>a slave dies, you just drop them where they fall.

0:37:10.400 --> 0:37:12.400
<v Speaker 1>You leave them there and you keep on going. You

0:37:12.400 --> 0:37:15.239
<v Speaker 1>don't bother to give them a burial or anything like that,

0:37:15.760 --> 0:37:18.040
<v Speaker 1>and you might dump them off the trail. A little

0:37:18.040 --> 0:37:23.960
<v Speaker 1>bits aren't demoralized. But lions are scavengers. They have no

0:37:24.080 --> 0:37:28.680
<v Speaker 1>problem with scavenging. They can be scavengers. Yeah, so they

0:37:28.719 --> 0:37:32.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, if they are wanding along and oh hey, um,

0:37:33.800 --> 0:37:36.040
<v Speaker 1>there's there's a there's a thing there, and you know

0:37:36.080 --> 0:37:38.400
<v Speaker 1>the hyenas have already started ripping into it. And I

0:37:38.400 --> 0:37:40.040
<v Speaker 1>bet you I could get some food out of it,

0:37:40.280 --> 0:37:41.799
<v Speaker 1>just like the NF. I'm walking on the street and

0:37:41.800 --> 0:37:44.160
<v Speaker 1>I see I see a twinkie on the sidewalk, you know,

0:37:44.800 --> 0:37:50.279
<v Speaker 1>go for it. That's so gross, dude, so gross that

0:37:50.320 --> 0:37:54.759
<v Speaker 1>you're eating twinkies and be off the sidewalk. Yeah, okay,

0:37:54.840 --> 0:37:57.319
<v Speaker 1>let's keep going. Um. Oh. The other thing about the

0:37:57.360 --> 0:38:01.440
<v Speaker 1>Tsavo River is apparently, according to they're reading it was

0:38:01.840 --> 0:38:04.800
<v Speaker 1>the river itself was a bit of a dumping ground

0:38:05.040 --> 0:38:10.200
<v Speaker 1>for bodies. Because the I'm guessing I've got to presume

0:38:10.280 --> 0:38:13.680
<v Speaker 1>that it's because the route that they took followed the river,

0:38:14.160 --> 0:38:16.680
<v Speaker 1>so if somebody dies, you just chucked the body in.

0:38:16.880 --> 0:38:19.240
<v Speaker 1>Some bodies were floating down the river all the time.

0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:23.320
<v Speaker 1>That's my presumption on that. So the theory here goes

0:38:23.440 --> 0:38:27.440
<v Speaker 1>that these lions um, at this point they're used to

0:38:27.520 --> 0:38:33.000
<v Speaker 1>having human remains around to scavengehn, so they come to

0:38:33.040 --> 0:38:37.600
<v Speaker 1>consider humans as a normal food source. And if you

0:38:37.640 --> 0:38:39.279
<v Speaker 1>think about it, if there's you know, let's say there's

0:38:39.320 --> 0:38:41.279
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of slaves tied up at night in a

0:38:41.400 --> 0:38:44.680
<v Speaker 1>camp and you just come running in and they don't

0:38:44.719 --> 0:38:47.920
<v Speaker 1>fight back and they can't run away, well that's the

0:38:47.960 --> 0:38:54.280
<v Speaker 1>best cafeteria ever. Yeah, so they would at that point consider, um,

0:38:54.360 --> 0:38:56.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, people's food source. And now the camps are

0:38:56.880 --> 0:39:01.360
<v Speaker 1>setting up, so you've got this abundance of humans. That's great.

0:39:01.440 --> 0:39:04.120
<v Speaker 1>And then add to this, Oh and look, they've also

0:39:04.200 --> 0:39:06.640
<v Speaker 1>brought along all these other animals, you know, like we

0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:10.200
<v Speaker 1>talked about before, the goats, the donkeys, the horses, the cows,

0:39:10.280 --> 0:39:14.359
<v Speaker 1>all of that stuff that that it's just it's too tempting. Well,

0:39:14.960 --> 0:39:17.440
<v Speaker 1>all these things that I know how to eat are here.

0:39:17.800 --> 0:39:19.920
<v Speaker 1>He totally can't blame them. I mean, I would take

0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:22.839
<v Speaker 1>advantage of a great opportunity like that. Yeah, and and

0:39:22.840 --> 0:39:24.399
<v Speaker 1>well then that's the theory though. I mean, I don't

0:39:24.400 --> 0:39:26.160
<v Speaker 1>know what your thoughts are on this in terms of

0:39:26.200 --> 0:39:29.080
<v Speaker 1>the scavenging, but this is this theory says it basically

0:39:29.160 --> 0:39:31.880
<v Speaker 1>they got used to eating people, so people are on

0:39:31.920 --> 0:39:34.440
<v Speaker 1>the menu. I guess for me, it just seems like

0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:37.520
<v Speaker 1>it's a leap to go from this is a super

0:39:37.520 --> 0:39:40.239
<v Speaker 1>easy thing that doesn't fight back at all. It's just

0:39:40.640 --> 0:39:44.600
<v Speaker 1>easy meat that's laying there to go to this is

0:39:44.640 --> 0:39:46.239
<v Speaker 1>a thing that fights back, and I have to like

0:39:46.280 --> 0:39:49.080
<v Speaker 1>break into a camp and be really smart just because

0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:53.000
<v Speaker 1>it's meat that's similar to what they're used to instead

0:39:53.040 --> 0:39:58.799
<v Speaker 1>of targeting their normal I guess natural prey, because I mean,

0:39:58.840 --> 0:40:00.400
<v Speaker 1>it's not as though there was a short age of

0:40:00.600 --> 0:40:04.040
<v Speaker 1>normal prey for them around the area, right, we'll talk

0:40:04.080 --> 0:40:07.000
<v Speaker 1>about that there there is something. If that's the case,

0:40:07.000 --> 0:40:09.479
<v Speaker 1>then yes, I agree, you know, but if you also

0:40:09.520 --> 0:40:12.000
<v Speaker 1>think about it, if they're used to walking up and

0:40:12.360 --> 0:40:15.840
<v Speaker 1>seeing a body and then snacking on that body, and

0:40:15.920 --> 0:40:17.960
<v Speaker 1>now they walk up and that body is still laying

0:40:17.960 --> 0:40:19.440
<v Speaker 1>on the ground, it just happens to be in this

0:40:19.480 --> 0:40:22.759
<v Speaker 1>weird contraption that humans call a tent. Well, then you

0:40:22.840 --> 0:40:25.000
<v Speaker 1>just walk in and then you grab the body as

0:40:25.040 --> 0:40:27.239
<v Speaker 1>you normally do, and oh, it's struggling. Will I better

0:40:27.280 --> 0:40:31.960
<v Speaker 1>run away with it? The real hard because that's the

0:40:32.000 --> 0:40:35.080
<v Speaker 1>thing is that you know, I I guess I never

0:40:35.120 --> 0:40:37.000
<v Speaker 1>really thought about it, though I knew it is the

0:40:37.000 --> 0:40:40.840
<v Speaker 1>way that lions kill. They their natural method of killing

0:40:40.920 --> 0:40:44.640
<v Speaker 1>is to grab the throat and clamp down and suffocate

0:40:44.680 --> 0:40:48.120
<v Speaker 1>while at the same time thrashing about to break the neck.

0:40:48.600 --> 0:40:52.200
<v Speaker 1>And so it's either breaking the neck or suffocating their prey.

0:40:52.280 --> 0:40:54.320
<v Speaker 1>And that makes sense when you think about it, but

0:40:54.360 --> 0:40:55.880
<v Speaker 1>I had never thought it. So that would explain why

0:40:55.920 --> 0:40:58.000
<v Speaker 1>you know they're coming they're like, do the quick clamp

0:40:58.000 --> 0:41:01.319
<v Speaker 1>and run the thing is gonna die. Yeah, let's go

0:41:01.400 --> 0:41:05.400
<v Speaker 1>to a sort of similar theory. So our second theory

0:41:05.560 --> 0:41:10.480
<v Speaker 1>is similar. Um it's it's described as partial cremations. And

0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:12.880
<v Speaker 1>I will be honest that I only saw that in

0:41:13.000 --> 0:41:16.880
<v Speaker 1>one or two places. I saw the term partial cremations.

0:41:16.920 --> 0:41:19.480
<v Speaker 1>In one place, I saw some other stuff that we'll

0:41:19.480 --> 0:41:24.920
<v Speaker 1>talk about this in Patterson's book. But I have to

0:41:25.760 --> 0:41:28.080
<v Speaker 1>I have to admit that I tried to get a

0:41:28.120 --> 0:41:32.400
<v Speaker 1>better sense of what partial cremations meant. I'm doing research

0:41:32.440 --> 0:41:35.840
<v Speaker 1>on it. All I can figure is that somebody tried

0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:40.120
<v Speaker 1>to cremate the body to light a fire, but they

0:41:40.160 --> 0:41:42.560
<v Speaker 1>didn't do a good job of it, so the body

0:41:42.640 --> 0:41:45.400
<v Speaker 1>didn't burn. I would guess it's the lack of like

0:41:45.440 --> 0:41:48.960
<v Speaker 1>a pire. It takes a lot of wood, actually totally consuming,

0:41:49.040 --> 0:41:51.080
<v Speaker 1>and there's not a whole lot of wood in that area. Yeah,

0:41:51.160 --> 0:41:53.000
<v Speaker 1>So I would assume that somebody set up a kind

0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:57.239
<v Speaker 1>of abbreviated, if you will, little pile and set them

0:41:57.280 --> 0:41:59.080
<v Speaker 1>on fire and watch for a little while, and then

0:41:59.120 --> 0:42:01.319
<v Speaker 1>you walk away, assuming it will continue to burn, and

0:42:01.360 --> 0:42:04.600
<v Speaker 1>it goes out and it's just a half burned corpse.

0:42:05.120 --> 0:42:08.880
<v Speaker 1>And related to that, um the other place that I

0:42:08.920 --> 0:42:11.880
<v Speaker 1>saw some descriptions of not exactly the same thing. But

0:42:12.000 --> 0:42:15.360
<v Speaker 1>in Patterson's reading or in his book, I came across

0:42:15.440 --> 0:42:19.920
<v Speaker 1>some stuff about the fact that there were poorly dug graves.

0:42:20.440 --> 0:42:23.640
<v Speaker 1>So people would try to bury somebody, but they would

0:42:23.640 --> 0:42:26.640
<v Speaker 1>only you know, dig down a little bit and then

0:42:26.719 --> 0:42:29.719
<v Speaker 1>cover the body up, and then other scavengers would come

0:42:29.719 --> 0:42:34.800
<v Speaker 1>along and dig it up. Now, Patterson, he says these things,

0:42:34.960 --> 0:42:37.279
<v Speaker 1>he blaming the people who were burying the body in

0:42:37.360 --> 0:42:40.200
<v Speaker 1>kind of a derogatory way. But really I think it's

0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:43.239
<v Speaker 1>just that they buried a body not expecting critters to

0:42:43.239 --> 0:42:45.440
<v Speaker 1>come dig it back up, and critters dig it back up.

0:42:45.560 --> 0:42:47.960
<v Speaker 1>And so this again is following the line the same

0:42:48.080 --> 0:42:50.359
<v Speaker 1>lines as the last one of well, now they're used

0:42:50.360 --> 0:42:53.000
<v Speaker 1>to eating people because they've been scavenging on them. It's

0:42:53.000 --> 0:42:55.239
<v Speaker 1>possible they were slaves too. I mean, it's possible that

0:42:55.280 --> 0:42:59.520
<v Speaker 1>slaves weren't actually just unceremoniously dumped but kind of haphazardly

0:43:00.040 --> 0:43:04.280
<v Speaker 1>given some kind of something. Right, Yeah, that's absolutely possible.

0:43:05.040 --> 0:43:07.560
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's not unlikely that a lot of workers

0:43:07.560 --> 0:43:09.520
<v Speaker 1>were dying while they were working on it. If they

0:43:09.520 --> 0:43:12.479
<v Speaker 1>send you out to digging grave for somebody and bury

0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:15.839
<v Speaker 1>the body, and the people tend to cut corners a lot,

0:43:16.120 --> 0:43:18.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, you might be tempted to bury the two

0:43:18.200 --> 0:43:20.799
<v Speaker 1>or three feet down and just take that, take the

0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:22.719
<v Speaker 1>rest of the day off, and just say he spent

0:43:22.800 --> 0:43:26.200
<v Speaker 1>all day digging the grave really well, and building railroads

0:43:26.320 --> 0:43:30.640
<v Speaker 1>was not a safe occupation. People died almost freaking time. Yeah.

0:43:31.200 --> 0:43:33.839
<v Speaker 1>I actually kind of wonder if that's part of the

0:43:33.920 --> 0:43:36.920
<v Speaker 1>number that he had in terms of where that dy

0:43:37.000 --> 0:43:40.920
<v Speaker 1>five number came. Is that somebody somebody died and they

0:43:40.920 --> 0:43:44.040
<v Speaker 1>didn't want to say, oh, well, we accidentally had this

0:43:44.320 --> 0:43:47.200
<v Speaker 1>pile of stuff fall on him. They just said, oh,

0:43:47.200 --> 0:43:50.600
<v Speaker 1>well the lion took him. Yeah, that's entirely possible as well.

0:43:50.920 --> 0:43:53.799
<v Speaker 1>The next theory that we have, which we alluded to

0:43:53.800 --> 0:43:55.319
<v Speaker 1>a little bit, this is the one that we were

0:43:55.400 --> 0:43:58.160
<v Speaker 1>kind of talking about, which is the food source. The

0:43:58.160 --> 0:44:03.000
<v Speaker 1>theory is cattle plaques. The Savo lions are one of

0:44:03.040 --> 0:44:08.440
<v Speaker 1>the only animals that are able to take down kate buffalo.

0:44:08.600 --> 0:44:10.480
<v Speaker 1>And if you don't know what a kate buffalo is,

0:44:10.600 --> 0:44:13.720
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of like a water buffalo. They're not actually related,

0:44:14.000 --> 0:44:17.399
<v Speaker 1>but it looks like a water buffalo only bigger. They're

0:44:17.680 --> 0:44:21.560
<v Speaker 1>huge creatures and there's tons of meat on them. The

0:44:21.640 --> 0:44:24.919
<v Speaker 1>problem is is a food source for lions. They kind

0:44:24.960 --> 0:44:29.480
<v Speaker 1>of suck because they're just as likely to injure or

0:44:29.719 --> 0:44:33.200
<v Speaker 1>kill the lion as not, so they're very tough to

0:44:33.239 --> 0:44:36.440
<v Speaker 1>take down. I would definitely be looking for easier sources

0:44:36.480 --> 0:44:40.439
<v Speaker 1>of food well, and lucky for the lions, we as

0:44:40.560 --> 0:44:44.200
<v Speaker 1>humans love cows, and we brought a whole bunch of

0:44:44.239 --> 0:44:46.920
<v Speaker 1>cows to the area, so the lions would have been

0:44:46.960 --> 0:44:51.239
<v Speaker 1>well calos cow was much easier to eat. Well, yeah,

0:44:51.320 --> 0:44:53.480
<v Speaker 1>it does. But the thing is that cows are not

0:44:53.600 --> 0:44:56.279
<v Speaker 1>very good at fighting back, so chances are good that

0:44:56.320 --> 0:45:01.120
<v Speaker 1>they're easier to take down, except that they're was in

0:45:01.200 --> 0:45:05.839
<v Speaker 1>the nineties a rash of cattle plagues. Um there is.

0:45:06.239 --> 0:45:12.160
<v Speaker 1>It is render pest disease, which is basically a fatal

0:45:12.239 --> 0:45:17.440
<v Speaker 1>disease for cattle. They get lesions and they have problems

0:45:17.440 --> 0:45:20.000
<v Speaker 1>in their sinuses and it's really kind of grows. So

0:45:20.040 --> 0:45:21.879
<v Speaker 1>only if you've got a strong stomach do you look

0:45:21.880 --> 0:45:24.040
<v Speaker 1>at some of this, because it's not pretty and it

0:45:24.239 --> 0:45:28.439
<v Speaker 1>takes him down pretty quickly, and it was taking out

0:45:28.920 --> 0:45:34.880
<v Speaker 1>entire herds at this time. In the mid to late

0:45:35.120 --> 0:45:39.880
<v Speaker 1>eighteen nineties. So if these lions have now learned to

0:45:40.040 --> 0:45:44.080
<v Speaker 1>hunt cows and hey, the cows are no longer available

0:45:44.160 --> 0:45:48.719
<v Speaker 1>and I'm starving, show up and I have all these

0:45:48.760 --> 0:45:51.040
<v Speaker 1>people show up that are making all this noise and

0:45:51.080 --> 0:45:54.719
<v Speaker 1>they smell and there's blood and they're cooking. Well, then

0:45:54.760 --> 0:45:59.440
<v Speaker 1>that would explain why they would go there with the

0:45:59.440 --> 0:46:04.480
<v Speaker 1>game all that. Yeah, but I think that it render pest.

0:46:05.080 --> 0:46:07.760
<v Speaker 1>I said render pest, but it could be render pest.

0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:13.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm not positive. Somebody out there looking. Yeah, but I

0:46:13.200 --> 0:46:15.799
<v Speaker 1>think it killed either game. Then just kill off the cows, right,

0:46:15.800 --> 0:46:20.120
<v Speaker 1>I didn't kill other game besides even toad ungulates. Yeah,

0:46:20.520 --> 0:46:23.560
<v Speaker 1>so that means printers that have cloven hoofs so to

0:46:23.560 --> 0:46:27.800
<v Speaker 1>to toes, so it would get killed giraffes. It killed

0:46:28.120 --> 0:46:32.000
<v Speaker 1>the antelope. It actually killed some of the cape buffalo

0:46:32.600 --> 0:46:36.440
<v Speaker 1>and what was the other one? No, not the devil.

0:46:36.719 --> 0:46:40.759
<v Speaker 1>It did not kill the robot devil um, but it

0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:43.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, it killed off all of these other animals

0:46:43.520 --> 0:46:45.439
<v Speaker 1>that oh it was dear was the other one, because

0:46:45.480 --> 0:46:47.879
<v Speaker 1>there are deer in the area, so it's killing off

0:46:47.920 --> 0:46:50.680
<v Speaker 1>all these these prey animals. So it's not just the

0:46:50.680 --> 0:46:53.080
<v Speaker 1>cows that are gone. At this point, there's a lot

0:46:53.239 --> 0:46:56.840
<v Speaker 1>of animals that are disappearing because it's spreading through the

0:46:57.080 --> 0:47:00.960
<v Speaker 1>entire areas. Here's my problem with this idea, So this

0:47:01.040 --> 0:47:03.280
<v Speaker 1>is the first one that I'm gonna say I kind

0:47:03.320 --> 0:47:07.120
<v Speaker 1>of call bunk on, is that if that were the case,

0:47:07.200 --> 0:47:11.480
<v Speaker 1>because this was all over the region, why is it

0:47:11.719 --> 0:47:15.600
<v Speaker 1>only these two lions that we know about who were

0:47:15.640 --> 0:47:19.560
<v Speaker 1>just going on these giant human killing sprees. Um, I

0:47:19.600 --> 0:47:26.320
<v Speaker 1>guess my question would be how close to human populations

0:47:26.360 --> 0:47:30.840
<v Speaker 1>were other lions, you know, because this it seems like

0:47:30.880 --> 0:47:33.359
<v Speaker 1>the sort of thing where lions at this point, if

0:47:33.400 --> 0:47:35.600
<v Speaker 1>they have you know, a few prey options, are going

0:47:35.640 --> 0:47:38.600
<v Speaker 1>to go for whatever is easiest and closest. They're not

0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:42.520
<v Speaker 1>gonna make fifty sixty seventy mile tracks to find a

0:47:42.560 --> 0:47:46.080
<v Speaker 1>population of humans. To get a human in a hut,

0:47:46.440 --> 0:47:48.279
<v Speaker 1>that's like you have to break in, and there's like

0:47:48.320 --> 0:47:52.080
<v Speaker 1>all this sort of stuffed law versus like these two.

0:47:52.280 --> 0:47:54.760
<v Speaker 1>It just so happened that a huge group of humans

0:47:55.239 --> 0:48:00.720
<v Speaker 1>we're just walking through their territory, camping in easy access tense. So,

0:48:01.120 --> 0:48:03.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, for me, it doesn't bother me that much,

0:48:03.680 --> 0:48:06.719
<v Speaker 1>I guess because they You know, I presume most people

0:48:06.760 --> 0:48:09.040
<v Speaker 1>in that area where you know, had huts and things

0:48:09.120 --> 0:48:11.480
<v Speaker 1>like that, more permanent structures that would be harder for

0:48:11.480 --> 0:48:16.160
<v Speaker 1>a lion to get into versus these workers permanent structure. Right,

0:48:16.239 --> 0:48:19.799
<v Speaker 1>they're they're living in a tent and they're they're like

0:48:20.080 --> 0:48:22.920
<v Speaker 1>easy access because they've just wandered right into the middle

0:48:23.000 --> 0:48:26.879
<v Speaker 1>of these two lions territory, you know that sort of thing,

0:48:26.960 --> 0:48:29.799
<v Speaker 1>I guess. And were there a lot of people living

0:48:29.800 --> 0:48:32.880
<v Speaker 1>in that area, so it wasn't heavily populated, It was

0:48:32.920 --> 0:48:35.440
<v Speaker 1>nowhere to nowhere, remember, yeah, I mean the area was

0:48:35.560 --> 0:48:39.480
<v Speaker 1>very rural. There were cattle everywhere. But if you think

0:48:39.520 --> 0:48:43.719
<v Speaker 1>about it, a huge herd can be overseen by a

0:48:43.840 --> 0:48:46.800
<v Speaker 1>very small group of people, So I mean, in villages

0:48:46.880 --> 0:48:50.560
<v Speaker 1>aren't typically all that huge. And as you said, these lions,

0:48:50.640 --> 0:48:53.879
<v Speaker 1>even in their most aggressive state, were just as likely

0:48:53.920 --> 0:48:56.839
<v Speaker 1>to go after livestock as they were humans. So if

0:48:57.280 --> 0:49:00.760
<v Speaker 1>there's humans living in huts and livestock out, it wouldn't

0:49:00.760 --> 0:49:03.160
<v Speaker 1>be that weird that we wouldn't have reports from this

0:49:03.239 --> 0:49:06.839
<v Speaker 1>time that if there were livestock that were healthy in

0:49:07.320 --> 0:49:10.040
<v Speaker 1>in villages that lions were taking those that wouldn't be

0:49:10.440 --> 0:49:13.080
<v Speaker 1>Plus the eligenous people who were living in that area

0:49:13.160 --> 0:49:16.279
<v Speaker 1>probably weren't writing the accounts of the lions stealing their

0:49:16.320 --> 0:49:19.839
<v Speaker 1>goat and sending it to the bridge, and they were like, oh, yeah, uh,

0:49:19.920 --> 0:49:25.319
<v Speaker 1>a lion stole another goat. Weird now that that makes

0:49:25.360 --> 0:49:29.240
<v Speaker 1>a ton of sense, But they aren't retract my distaste

0:49:29.239 --> 0:49:32.879
<v Speaker 1>for this theory. So I like this theory, Well, let's

0:49:32.920 --> 0:49:35.560
<v Speaker 1>go to a theory that I'm going to see if

0:49:35.560 --> 0:49:40.239
<v Speaker 1>you really like our next theory is bad teeth. So

0:49:40.320 --> 0:49:43.920
<v Speaker 1>these lions had to go see a dentist. There are

0:49:43.960 --> 0:49:48.239
<v Speaker 1>some researchers, and I apologize I failed to write down

0:49:48.320 --> 0:49:50.760
<v Speaker 1>the name of these two gentlemen, but there are two

0:49:50.840 --> 0:49:53.800
<v Speaker 1>researchers who have done a lot of studies on lions

0:49:53.840 --> 0:49:56.360
<v Speaker 1>in general, and part of their studies were on the

0:49:56.360 --> 0:50:00.319
<v Speaker 1>Tsavo lions. And they say that they exam then the

0:50:00.360 --> 0:50:04.960
<v Speaker 1>skulls of these two and one of them had missing canines.

0:50:05.160 --> 0:50:08.880
<v Speaker 1>It was the upper left. I want to say that

0:50:09.000 --> 0:50:13.840
<v Speaker 1>the canines were missing and that those were there, And

0:50:13.880 --> 0:50:16.560
<v Speaker 1>then they did some X rays on the skull and

0:50:16.719 --> 0:50:21.319
<v Speaker 1>found what were signs of lesions in the jawbone. So

0:50:21.640 --> 0:50:23.719
<v Speaker 1>that led them to believe that it was probably a

0:50:23.840 --> 0:50:28.440
<v Speaker 1>very painful injury, and that it had probably happened at

0:50:28.520 --> 0:50:31.359
<v Speaker 1>least two years before the animal's death, and so that

0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:34.720
<v Speaker 1>would impede its ability to hunt prey as normal. Because

0:50:35.120 --> 0:50:37.920
<v Speaker 1>we talked about this before. A lion has to be

0:50:37.960 --> 0:50:40.920
<v Speaker 1>able to clamp down with its jaw on the throat

0:50:41.480 --> 0:50:44.839
<v Speaker 1>and hang on. Well, if there's a set of canines

0:50:44.960 --> 0:50:48.120
<v Speaker 1>and one side missing, you aren't going to have as

0:50:48.280 --> 0:50:54.839
<v Speaker 1>good of a bite. People are slower and weaker than you. Know. Yes,

0:50:54.920 --> 0:50:59.399
<v Speaker 1>we don't fight nearly as hard and softer, yes we

0:51:00.200 --> 0:51:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Our skin is much thinner, puts the lotion on. I

0:51:03.560 --> 0:51:10.000
<v Speaker 1>was going to make that joke, Sorr that um, so

0:51:10.040 --> 0:51:13.640
<v Speaker 1>then we go to so it wasn't Actually uh, I

0:51:13.640 --> 0:51:15.520
<v Speaker 1>think I was wrong with the upper left in turns

0:51:15.520 --> 0:51:18.000
<v Speaker 1>of the missing canines, But it doesn't matter because I'm

0:51:18.000 --> 0:51:21.239
<v Speaker 1>now looking here because they did examine the skull of

0:51:21.360 --> 0:51:26.439
<v Speaker 1>the second lion and that lion had fractures in its

0:51:26.520 --> 0:51:29.600
<v Speaker 1>jaw which were around the teeth in the upper left.

0:51:29.600 --> 0:51:31.600
<v Speaker 1>So that's where I was getting the upper left from. Well,

0:51:31.640 --> 0:51:34.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean the idea here though, is that again it's

0:51:34.800 --> 0:51:37.880
<v Speaker 1>hurts and it's not able to hunt effectively. It would

0:51:37.880 --> 0:51:40.319
<v Speaker 1>explain if they were brothers. If they were related, right,

0:51:40.360 --> 0:51:43.439
<v Speaker 1>it wouldn't be so crazy that they both had this thing.

0:51:43.520 --> 0:51:46.080
<v Speaker 1>But it would also explain why as they matured they

0:51:46.080 --> 0:51:49.840
<v Speaker 1>continue to rely on each other because they weren't effective hunters,

0:51:49.880 --> 0:51:53.080
<v Speaker 1>so they had to work as a team to be effective. Yeah,

0:51:53.239 --> 0:51:55.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't hate it. I don't love it, but I

0:51:55.880 --> 0:51:59.320
<v Speaker 1>don't hate it. It's not usual. Typically when an animal

0:51:59.360 --> 0:52:01.640
<v Speaker 1>does start at the human populations, like say a mountain

0:52:01.680 --> 0:52:03.560
<v Speaker 1>lion here in the state, it's usually because he's old

0:52:03.560 --> 0:52:06.480
<v Speaker 1>and sick and you just can't do can't go after

0:52:06.520 --> 0:52:09.360
<v Speaker 1>the normal stuff anymore. But that's the thing is that

0:52:09.400 --> 0:52:12.000
<v Speaker 1>these lions, they weren't old. So that's one thing, is

0:52:12.000 --> 0:52:14.120
<v Speaker 1>they weren't old. But the injury, the idea that there's

0:52:14.160 --> 0:52:17.919
<v Speaker 1>an injury makes sense. I gotta say, though, is that

0:52:18.080 --> 0:52:23.360
<v Speaker 1>if if a lion's jaws are so injured that for

0:52:23.680 --> 0:52:27.040
<v Speaker 1>from two years prior or a year prior to all

0:52:27.160 --> 0:52:31.000
<v Speaker 1>to being killed, that's a long time before these camps

0:52:31.040 --> 0:52:34.399
<v Speaker 1>of people showed up. Now, maybe it's scavenging on other

0:52:34.480 --> 0:52:37.359
<v Speaker 1>stuff and that's how they're getting along, But I'm just

0:52:37.680 --> 0:52:43.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious about how they got to the time frame

0:52:43.040 --> 0:52:47.080
<v Speaker 1>that they assigned for the age. The researcher talked about

0:52:47.080 --> 0:52:51.279
<v Speaker 1>the fact that they saw there was erosion on the

0:52:51.320 --> 0:52:55.359
<v Speaker 1>teeth around it, and the bone in the socket had

0:52:55.440 --> 0:52:57.879
<v Speaker 1>begun to grow back where the tooth was at. That's

0:52:57.880 --> 0:53:02.280
<v Speaker 1>how they determined it. But I mean, does that mean

0:53:02.400 --> 0:53:06.399
<v Speaker 1>that it was painful and incapable of using its jaw?

0:53:06.800 --> 0:53:09.799
<v Speaker 1>I That's what I'm questioning. Well, I mean, maybe it's

0:53:09.800 --> 0:53:13.239
<v Speaker 1>a combination of things. I'm just advocating for all of

0:53:13.280 --> 0:53:16.000
<v Speaker 1>these tonight. Maybe it's a combination of you know, the

0:53:16.320 --> 0:53:19.400
<v Speaker 1>so the railroad construction, you know, it made the slave

0:53:19.440 --> 0:53:22.360
<v Speaker 1>trade take a step back. So maybe what was happening is,

0:53:22.680 --> 0:53:25.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, the slave trade was getting slaves picked off

0:53:25.600 --> 0:53:28.760
<v Speaker 1>by these lions before when they were going through their territory,

0:53:28.880 --> 0:53:31.080
<v Speaker 1>or their dead bodies, or maybe a combination of both.

0:53:31.120 --> 0:53:34.279
<v Speaker 1>And if you're partaking in an illegal slave trade, you're

0:53:34.320 --> 0:53:36.160
<v Speaker 1>not necessarily going to be like, yeah, it's weird the

0:53:36.200 --> 0:53:39.680
<v Speaker 1>lions keep stealing these people that I totally own. You're

0:53:39.719 --> 0:53:42.480
<v Speaker 1>just gonna say it's the cost of business. Oh, No,

0:53:42.960 --> 0:53:47.480
<v Speaker 1>Apparently it was the traders were Arabs, the slave traders

0:53:47.480 --> 0:53:49.759
<v Speaker 1>that were coming through that area, and that's so that's

0:53:49.920 --> 0:53:54.000
<v Speaker 1>that's so, I guess that would help us get to

0:53:54.040 --> 0:53:58.239
<v Speaker 1>this timeline of they had been living on humans or

0:53:58.560 --> 0:54:03.360
<v Speaker 1>but didn't didn't start getting knocked back as much until

0:54:03.480 --> 0:54:05.839
<v Speaker 1>the rail line was finished finished. Okay, well, I mean

0:54:05.880 --> 0:54:08.960
<v Speaker 1>that that still doesn't necessarily present a problem, but it

0:54:09.120 --> 0:54:12.600
<v Speaker 1>also I guess on top of that you can say, uh,

0:54:12.640 --> 0:54:15.040
<v Speaker 1>but on the other hand, yeah, they if he if

0:54:15.080 --> 0:54:17.680
<v Speaker 1>one of them drug a goat that was attached to

0:54:17.800 --> 0:54:21.479
<v Speaker 1>a railroad tie, you wouldn't think that if their mouth

0:54:21.560 --> 0:54:23.480
<v Speaker 1>was an intense pain, they'd be able to drag that

0:54:23.560 --> 0:54:26.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of weight. I think that probably that, you know,

0:54:26.520 --> 0:54:28.319
<v Speaker 1>maybe it got a little better over time, or maybe

0:54:28.320 --> 0:54:31.040
<v Speaker 1>they were just used to it, or they're just really

0:54:31.320 --> 0:54:35.240
<v Speaker 1>they're just really badass and tough, or Patterson was a

0:54:35.320 --> 0:54:39.719
<v Speaker 1>liar and where it out there. Because that's the other

0:54:39.760 --> 0:54:44.080
<v Speaker 1>thing is that I have to imagine that he wrote

0:54:44.200 --> 0:54:46.839
<v Speaker 1>these accounts, at least the original versions that went into

0:54:46.880 --> 0:54:51.440
<v Speaker 1>the papers. He probably sat down and wrote those from

0:54:51.560 --> 0:54:54.440
<v Speaker 1>his journal or memory, and then of course had to

0:54:54.480 --> 0:54:56.960
<v Speaker 1>spice him up to get them bought. Yeah, well, it's

0:54:57.000 --> 0:54:59.279
<v Speaker 1>not as interesting a story if you say these two

0:54:59.280 --> 0:55:02.240
<v Speaker 1>lions were taking out humans because they were too sickly

0:55:02.440 --> 0:55:05.040
<v Speaker 1>to take on any other prey, and I totally killed them.

0:55:05.080 --> 0:55:08.440
<v Speaker 1>It's way more you know, badass to say. Yeah, And

0:55:08.719 --> 0:55:11.640
<v Speaker 1>it was capable of dragging a goat attached to a

0:55:11.760 --> 0:55:14.880
<v Speaker 1>railroad tie. It was so strong and virile that I,

0:55:15.040 --> 0:55:17.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, and I took it down with nine shots.

0:55:17.560 --> 0:55:19.800
<v Speaker 1>That's a way better story, a little better story. But

0:55:19.960 --> 0:55:21.600
<v Speaker 1>I as gonna say, if I was going to put

0:55:21.600 --> 0:55:25.200
<v Speaker 1>a goat out there for bait, I would totally tie

0:55:25.239 --> 0:55:27.160
<v Speaker 1>to a road tie. It makes sense because it's going

0:55:27.200 --> 0:55:29.359
<v Speaker 1>to slow the lion way down when you drag away.

0:55:29.400 --> 0:55:32.560
<v Speaker 1>Apparently not slow enough for Patterson to shoes. By the way,

0:55:32.640 --> 0:55:34.400
<v Speaker 1>I do want to point out with the whole it

0:55:34.440 --> 0:55:38.160
<v Speaker 1>took nine shots to take it down. He says that

0:55:38.520 --> 0:55:40.680
<v Speaker 1>with the last two shots he shot I think he

0:55:40.800 --> 0:55:42.920
<v Speaker 1>shot it in the head with the last two shots.

0:55:43.120 --> 0:55:45.480
<v Speaker 1>But it was so aggressive and it wanted him so

0:55:45.560 --> 0:55:48.640
<v Speaker 1>badly that it was leaning against a branch or a

0:55:48.800 --> 0:55:52.640
<v Speaker 1>log and was gnawing at the branch or log. This

0:55:52.800 --> 0:55:54.480
<v Speaker 1>hunkle would as it was trying to get at it.

0:55:54.480 --> 0:55:56.480
<v Speaker 1>Have you ever seen like a cat that ladies and

0:55:56.440 --> 0:55:59.080
<v Speaker 1>it's trying to get something and it's it's biting at it.

0:55:59.560 --> 0:56:01.799
<v Speaker 1>If this is the big version of it, that's what

0:56:01.840 --> 0:56:04.319
<v Speaker 1>he's saying. But so so these are things that I

0:56:04.360 --> 0:56:07.920
<v Speaker 1>point out. I bring up these these descriptions in his

0:56:07.920 --> 0:56:14.680
<v Speaker 1>his story because it makes me stop and go, uh, yeah,

0:56:14.760 --> 0:56:19.200
<v Speaker 1>that's just that's really colorful writing. To yeah, um, really

0:56:19.239 --> 0:56:22.160
<v Speaker 1>colorful writing is actually what gives us our final theory,

0:56:22.760 --> 0:56:24.839
<v Speaker 1>which because we actually have one more, which is that

0:56:25.080 --> 0:56:28.480
<v Speaker 1>they were bloodthirst the animals who had developed a taste

0:56:28.480 --> 0:56:33.680
<v Speaker 1>for humans and or maybe we're just insane, because that's

0:56:33.680 --> 0:56:37.279
<v Speaker 1>what Patterson said. They acted pretty sane if you ask me. Yeah,

0:56:37.400 --> 0:56:39.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that they were. If they were, if

0:56:39.280 --> 0:56:41.400
<v Speaker 1>totally insane, they would have just been coming into the

0:56:41.440 --> 0:56:45.359
<v Speaker 1>camp constantly running through everything. And it said they were

0:56:45.520 --> 0:56:49.960
<v Speaker 1>very stealthy and they were really really smart in how

0:56:50.000 --> 0:56:52.880
<v Speaker 1>they went about stealing or getting their food. I shouldn't

0:56:52.880 --> 0:56:57.480
<v Speaker 1>say stealing getting their food. Um, so I don't think that.

0:56:57.840 --> 0:57:00.879
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that the Tavo lions were insane. I mean,

0:57:01.520 --> 0:57:04.360
<v Speaker 1>like I said, he made a career out of hunting

0:57:04.680 --> 0:57:08.120
<v Speaker 1>other lions. After that. The the there's all these supposed

0:57:08.239 --> 0:57:11.200
<v Speaker 1>man eaters that had killed a couple of people. I

0:57:11.200 --> 0:57:13.120
<v Speaker 1>think that part of the problem though, is that all

0:57:13.160 --> 0:57:18.080
<v Speaker 1>these supposed man hunters are We're expanding, and we're expanding

0:57:18.120 --> 0:57:22.080
<v Speaker 1>into their natural territory. And what happens when humans and

0:57:22.120 --> 0:57:26.560
<v Speaker 1>other animals collide, Well, usually the people lose it first

0:57:26.560 --> 0:57:33.880
<v Speaker 1>because we're dumb and ignorant, but eventually just through sheer numbers. Yes,

0:57:34.000 --> 0:57:36.800
<v Speaker 1>and so I think that that's why all of these

0:57:36.880 --> 0:57:41.040
<v Speaker 1>these lions that are called man killers and man eaters

0:57:41.080 --> 0:57:46.160
<v Speaker 1>and insane, they're they're actually not. They're just they're pushed

0:57:46.280 --> 0:57:49.360
<v Speaker 1>to a breaking point and they have to survive because

0:57:49.360 --> 0:57:54.600
<v Speaker 1>that's what their natural instinct is. So my personal opinion

0:57:54.760 --> 0:57:58.439
<v Speaker 1>is that I think that these I kind of fall

0:57:58.480 --> 0:58:01.200
<v Speaker 1>in line with the slave trade. I think that that

0:58:01.280 --> 0:58:06.000
<v Speaker 1>gave them an idea of humans, at least for these two,

0:58:06.200 --> 0:58:08.880
<v Speaker 1>particularly in that area, as oh, this is a normal

0:58:08.920 --> 0:58:12.640
<v Speaker 1>food source. Okay, the other ones I'm not so sure about.

0:58:13.120 --> 0:58:17.120
<v Speaker 1>I like the cattle plague. Cattle plague it's good, I mean,

0:58:17.160 --> 0:58:21.240
<v Speaker 1>not like I don't like it. I'm Facebook friends with

0:58:21.240 --> 0:58:23.880
<v Speaker 1>the cattle player and they put up the best post ever.

0:58:24.040 --> 0:58:27.560
<v Speaker 1>We go out to drink sometimes it's great. Cattle plague tails,

0:58:27.640 --> 0:58:35.520
<v Speaker 1>the best jokes. Uh. Maybe some combination of all of them,

0:58:35.560 --> 0:58:37.840
<v Speaker 1>even I hate to sound wishy washing here. The cattle plague,

0:58:37.840 --> 0:58:39.840
<v Speaker 1>I think is a good one because you know, they

0:58:39.840 --> 0:58:41.919
<v Speaker 1>have plenty of that play to snack on. They didn't

0:58:41.960 --> 0:58:44.600
<v Speaker 1>need to actually go eat people. And then boom, all

0:58:44.640 --> 0:58:46.880
<v Speaker 1>that goes and well you gotta go find food somewhere,

0:58:46.880 --> 0:58:51.200
<v Speaker 1>and these guys come waltzing and conveniently driving right through

0:58:51.200 --> 0:58:56.160
<v Speaker 1>the middle of their territory. Yeah, so what do you expect? Alright,

0:58:57.280 --> 0:58:59.800
<v Speaker 1>there we go. So let's go ahead and give the

0:59:00.040 --> 0:59:02.400
<v Speaker 1>important bits that I know people really like to hear

0:59:02.440 --> 0:59:06.240
<v Speaker 1>us repeat every week. We have a website. Yeah, we

0:59:06.280 --> 0:59:10.120
<v Speaker 1>have a website. The website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com, where,

0:59:10.160 --> 0:59:13.280
<v Speaker 1>of course you can look at links that we will

0:59:13.320 --> 0:59:16.320
<v Speaker 1>put up for some of our research, as well as

0:59:16.480 --> 0:59:20.560
<v Speaker 1>listening to any of the past episodes. We We are

0:59:20.680 --> 0:59:23.120
<v Speaker 1>on iTunes as well as a bunch of the other

0:59:23.160 --> 0:59:26.480
<v Speaker 1>streaming services like Google Play and any other service that

0:59:26.520 --> 0:59:29.440
<v Speaker 1>you might be able to use. If you're on iTunes,

0:59:29.600 --> 0:59:31.480
<v Speaker 1>do you take the time to leave a comment and

0:59:31.560 --> 0:59:34.440
<v Speaker 1>a rating? That's how other people find us if the

0:59:34.560 --> 0:59:37.840
<v Speaker 1>streaming Yeah, yeah, preferbably a good one. If if you've

0:59:37.880 --> 0:59:40.760
<v Speaker 1>got something that you don't agree with, write us an

0:59:40.800 --> 0:59:42.720
<v Speaker 1>email so that we can have a discussion about it,

0:59:42.760 --> 0:59:48.000
<v Speaker 1>because we can't talk through comments. They're they're one way conversation. Well,

0:59:48.000 --> 0:59:51.080
<v Speaker 1>that email is something that I'll tell you in a minute.

0:59:51.320 --> 0:59:53.000
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say, if you're using any of the

0:59:53.000 --> 0:59:56.600
<v Speaker 1>other streaming services and they allow you to comment in rating,

0:59:56.760 --> 0:59:59.600
<v Speaker 1>do the same as we asked to do in in iTunes.

0:59:59.600 --> 1:00:02.040
<v Speaker 1>That way, everybody who's using that service can find out

1:00:02.040 --> 1:00:05.280
<v Speaker 1>about us. Um, if you want to write us an email,

1:00:05.360 --> 1:00:07.680
<v Speaker 1>you can do that. The email address that Joe was

1:00:07.720 --> 1:00:10.960
<v Speaker 1>prompting me to give you is Thinking Sideways Podcast at

1:00:11.000 --> 1:00:16.200
<v Speaker 1>gmail dot com. We take story suggestions, we take feedback,

1:00:16.600 --> 1:00:20.360
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1:00:20.360 --> 1:00:22.520
<v Speaker 1>though it may take us days to get to you,

1:00:22.560 --> 1:00:25.760
<v Speaker 1>and that's not a reflection of you. That's our workload.

1:00:26.120 --> 1:00:28.920
<v Speaker 1>But we respond to everybody. And by the way, if

1:00:28.960 --> 1:00:31.280
<v Speaker 1>you're listening, say five years from now, we've got twenty

1:00:31.280 --> 1:00:34.240
<v Speaker 1>billion listeners, that might not be the case anymore. Yeah yeah,

1:00:34.280 --> 1:00:39.600
<v Speaker 1>but currently as of this recording, yes, um. Now, we

1:00:39.680 --> 1:00:42.640
<v Speaker 1>are on social media, so we have a Facebook page

1:00:42.680 --> 1:00:46.640
<v Speaker 1>and a Facebook group. So like the page, joined the group,

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1:00:59.720 --> 1:01:02.920
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1:01:02.960 --> 1:01:06.240
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1:01:06.400 --> 1:01:09.560
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<v Speaker 1>gotta do the math there. So whatever works for you

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<v Speaker 1>and you're comfortable with, and by no means is any

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<v Speaker 1>of this required. It is totally voluntary and we appreciate

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<v Speaker 1>everybody who has and is currently donating the show. It's

1:02:17.200 --> 1:02:21.439
<v Speaker 1>amazing how much easier that makes that for all of us. Really, yeah,

1:02:21.720 --> 1:02:24.960
<v Speaker 1>it does cost a little bit, it does. Um, So

1:02:25.200 --> 1:02:27.680
<v Speaker 1>that having been said, we're going to get out of

1:02:27.680 --> 1:02:30.280
<v Speaker 1>here and look at Joe's crystal cat collection that he

1:02:30.320 --> 1:02:34.200
<v Speaker 1>has bought with donations from Patreon. No, I'm just kidding. Um.

1:02:34.520 --> 1:02:36.720
<v Speaker 1>We are, though, going to get out of here, and

1:02:36.840 --> 1:02:39.040
<v Speaker 1>so we will talk to you guys all next week.

1:02:40.120 --> 1:02:46.320
<v Speaker 1>Let's go see your menagerie, your glass menagerie. Let's go

1:02:46.360 --> 1:02:53.480
<v Speaker 1>to the catacombs because it's perfect. Oh, I don't have anything,

1:03:00.160 --> 1:03:00.440
<v Speaker 1>wh