1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by the jealous 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,359 Speaker 1: rival of steel Wall, which is the lesser appreciated describing 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: tool Sheep's Wall. Instead, it's supported by the generous contributions 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: of people like you are listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: dot com slash thinking Sideways to learn more Thinking Sideways. 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: I don't stories of things we don't know the answer too. Well. 7 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome again to another episode of Thinking 8 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: Sideways podcast. The podcast I am Steve, as always joined 9 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: by Done Joe. You didn't sing that, Joe. Okay, Oh wait, 10 00:00:52,280 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: that's the wrong episode. Next time, next time handing my guitar. No, So, 11 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: today's story, Um, well, actually, before we get in today's story. 12 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: Today's episode is part of our summer series where we're 13 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: taking some of the smaller mysteries and and going over 14 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: those so that gives us some time off during the 15 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: summer and it allows some time to research the bigger mysteries. Yeah, 16 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:22,479 Speaker 1: like Dizzy Cooper and Stan Cooper and things. Just Dan Cooper. Okay, 17 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: just the entire summer full of Dan Cooper, the summer 18 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: of Dan Dans of summer. I'm sorry you were so 19 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: proud of yourself I woke up at four o'clock this morning. 20 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: I've been awake for a very long time. Okay, let's 21 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: talk about van eater. Sorry, today's story is the Savo 22 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: man Eaters. Uh. And this is a listener suggestion. This 23 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: was suggested by David. Thanks David. Yeah no, this is 24 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: a fun one. I had forgotten about this until I 25 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: came across down. The Law's fun except for the people 26 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: who got eaten. Shush, jeezils we do um So. The 27 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 1: Savo man Eaters are two African lions who in eight 28 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: who were named locally the Ghost and the Darkness, killed 29 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: workers on the East Africa Railroad at the Savo River 30 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: which is today modern day Savo National Park in Kenya. 31 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 1: If you go to do a google on Savo, it's 32 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: spelled t s A v O. Yes it is um Now, 33 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: those lions, because of what they were doing to the 34 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: people who were there, they actually stopped the railroad project 35 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: that was going on. And it wasn't until they were 36 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: eventually killed by British Army Colonel John Patterson that the 37 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: project could move forward and complete at least the part 38 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: that he was responsible for. But our mystery here, we're 39 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: gonna to tell the story. But our mystery here is 40 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: why did they do it? Why? Like, why did the 41 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: lions kill the humans? Yes? Not not Why did the 42 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: British build a railroad? It's because because they were hungry? 43 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: Well what motivated him? Since lions are typically known to 44 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: hunt humans and they were they were taking out according 45 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 1: to the story great swabs of people. Well, I mean 46 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: they are cats and cats are jerks. Maybe that you 47 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: just alienated all of our feline listeners. Steva doesn't have 48 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: a comeback for that. We'll go ahead and just start 49 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: the story. Uh. In eight the British had decided to 50 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: build a railroad in their East Africa and colony UH. 51 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: And that was gonna run from the port city of Mombasa, 52 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: which is in modern day Kenya, and then that rail 53 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: line was going to run all the way to Lake 54 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: Victoria and then go on to Uganda. And officially it 55 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: was named the Uganda Railroad, but unofficially it was called 56 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: the Lunatic Line. And that's because there was a lot 57 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: of people in Parliament who didn't think that it was 58 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: worth it and they should be doing it. They described 59 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,119 Speaker 1: it as the railroad that ran from nowhere to nowhere. 60 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: It's kind of like that high speed rail project in 61 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: California something like that. Um Officially, what the British were 62 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: hoping was that it would encourage people to move into 63 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: the interior of Africa and provide a method for transporting 64 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: trade products between Africa and Europe. And by people, I 65 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: mean British citizens because it was a colony and they 66 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: wanted to get citizens in there, because that's how they 67 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: were going to tame the What did they call it, 68 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: It was the darkest Africa, Darkest Africa, Yeah, I think 69 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: that was what they called that. They considered it a 70 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: land of savages at the time. Is the way that 71 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: you see it describe it. I mean again it was 72 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: like the yes, yeah, so this is this is based 73 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: on writings at that time that that was there. That 74 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: was their description. Yeah, I don't know that. The term 75 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: was actually based on the complexions of the people who 76 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: lived there, like sort of the you like her kind 77 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: of heart of darkness kind of yeah exactly. Yeah, yeah, 78 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: it was it was a hard place to get to. Um. Now, unofficially, 79 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: this railroad was also it was also intended to provide 80 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: an alternative method to what the standard method of getting 81 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: things from the interior of Africa to the coast was 82 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:24,799 Speaker 1: which was on foot, which is a long, long walk. 83 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: It's a long hike, and I have a lot of 84 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: people to carry all that stuff you do. Importers aren't cheap, 85 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: and because cheap labor is kind of important when you're 86 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: you're trading, there was a blossoming slave trade. So there 87 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: was tons of slaves that were being picked up in 88 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: that entire region and then they would be walking in 89 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: and out until eventually they die. So we're talking cheap 90 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: as free, not like underpaid. You got to buy a slave, 91 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 1: so it's not technically free. You're not paying wages, correct, 92 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: So therefore you're not gonna you're not gonna spend a 93 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: bunch of money on people. You just kitch product. You 94 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: hoofed into town. If somebody dies on the ways, whoops, 95 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: you're out whatever you paid for them. Then it's on 96 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: back down the road. Now, wonder how many slaves it 97 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: took to carry a car. That's the weirdest question you've 98 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: asked me in a while. Um, now, it did. It 99 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: did eventually help bring the slave trade down, It wasn't 100 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: the reason that the slave trade would eventually trade line. Yeah, 101 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: because if you can throw things on a train. It's 102 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: way cheaper and easier unless morally wrong. Yeah, for the 103 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: people who have who cared, I mean people who are 104 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,799 Speaker 1: buying and selling slaves typically probably don't have a compunction 105 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: to worry about that. Yeah. A lot of people still 106 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: back in those days thought it was okay. Yeah, it 107 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: was standard fair. Um. So they're gonna build this railroad 108 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: and thousands of labors are brought in and they are 109 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: Indie in and Chinese. So yeah, there was it was 110 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: Indians and there was Chinese brought in. Um they were 111 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: they were all as a group. The British referred to 112 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: him as coolies. They were their labors. Um did the 113 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: Alliance have a preference for one group of the other, 114 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: Not that I know of. Um. So the railroad itself 115 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: was gonna be a total of five eighty miles long, 116 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: and when it was done it we had crossed valleys 117 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: and rivers. Crazy though it took thirty years to complete. 118 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: It started in eight It reached Nairobi in like Victoria 119 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: in nineteen o one, and then it took almost thirty 120 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: or twenty seven more years for it to eventually get 121 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: to Kampala, Uganda. That's a long time. Yeah, I think 122 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: that there was some political tensions going on. I think 123 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: that mostly it was and I don't mean political tensions 124 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: in the area, I mean political tensions in Britain in 125 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: the Parliament of why are we dumping more money into this? 126 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: So that's why I didn't it and get very well 127 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: funded at that point, So we're gonna go to This 128 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,239 Speaker 1: is two years after the construction has begun. The rail 129 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: line has reached the Tsavo River in Kenya, which is 130 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: about a hundred and thirty miles away from Ambassa. Actually 131 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: pretty good progress. It actually is pretty good progress for 132 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: our rail line is being built by hand um And 133 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:22,679 Speaker 1: what they have to do is they have to cross 134 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: a river, so they build a temporary bridge so that 135 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: they can keep working on the rail line, and then 136 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: in place of that temporary bridge, they pull it down 137 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: and they're going to start putting in the actual bridge 138 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: because right so, because why do you want to wait 139 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: all this time for the bridge to be done when 140 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: you can keep making forward? Progress makes total sense. So 141 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: what they do is in March of that year they 142 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: bring in British Army Colonel John Patterson UM and he's 143 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: brought in from India because he was evidently he was 144 00:08:55,160 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: great with bridges and that was his thing at during 145 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: during the construction of the bridge, Like I said, the 146 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: they're gonna be building the bridge, and the rail line 147 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: itself is gonna keep moving forward the leading edge of 148 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: the line as they're constructing it. And this what happened 149 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: is that the camps, because the men who are working 150 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: on the line have to sleep at night, so they 151 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: set up temporary camps and their camps from the bridge forward, 152 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: over time starts spread out about over a twenty mile area, 153 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: so it's pretty big swath area. Well it's not, but 154 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: I think it's within a couple of days to a 155 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: week of Patterson arriving that men start disappearing. And I 156 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: was gonna say no. One immediately was like a crap, no, no, 157 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: because all of the workers come to him and say 158 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: they're being dragged out of their tents at night by 159 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: a lion, and he's like, no, that's not really happening. 160 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: I don't really believe you. Uh. And eventually he does 161 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: go with them. They find a bot. And I've read 162 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,599 Speaker 1: the accounting of it, and if you from the description 163 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: of it, it was pretty obvious that it was a 164 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: big cat that must have been doing it. So at 165 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: that point he's on board, and eventually the workers would 166 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: figure out that there wasn't just one, but there was 167 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: actually two lions. Not to be racist, but how could 168 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,839 Speaker 1: they tell with two different lions? Wait, okay, so you're 169 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: you're actually and you actually you actually praised it like 170 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: a joke, but it's an actual question. When you see 171 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: two lions at the same time, you know that there's 172 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: more than one. Okay, I mean, I guess I just 173 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: thought that male lions hunted alone. Apparently these these two 174 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: sort of had a had alliance their brothers. It was 175 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: later determined that they were brothers. But the thing is, 176 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk a little bit more about 177 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: these kind of lions in just a moment, but males 178 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: will be with a pride of females, and if male 179 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: doesn't have a pride, then he's just gonna row. Sometimes 180 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: males will work together to hunt because it's mutually beneficial, 181 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: at least for a certain amount of time. So it's 182 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: not completely unheard of to have a couple of males 183 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: just kicking around at the same time together. Okay, it's 184 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: actually I would be really handy for having because I 185 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 1: mean just you know, like go spook some gazelles and 186 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: driving towards your bro you know. Well, I mean that's 187 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: why you know, wolves hunting packs, a lot of animals 188 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: hunting packs, because the big cats do it all the time, 189 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: except for usually not two males. No, no, but and 190 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: so let's let's go ahead and talk about this. Because 191 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: the lions that are in question here are Savo lions, 192 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: and they're different than the lions that I think most 193 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: people think of are familiar with, which is the lions 194 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,719 Speaker 1: of the Serengetti. So there's there's some physical differences and 195 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: there's some behavioral differences. The bigger, for one thing, they are, 196 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: They are much bigger, and they also don't have mains. 197 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: So a normal you know, the Sengetti lion has that 198 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: big giant mane that's so iconic, but these lions don't. 199 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: And it's not understood why. There's some ideas that maybe 200 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: it's because of the fact that that region is hotter 201 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 1: than the Serengetti. Yeah, I think that is a reasonable Well, 202 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: that's a good reason. Um Or there's also the idea 203 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: that because the landscape in that area is very scrubby, 204 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: it's scrub brush, and it's very thorny scrub. So if 205 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: an animal is squeezing through brush, either the main is 206 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: gonna get caught or you're gonna get all kinds of 207 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: stuff caught. In the main, they have a little bit 208 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: of a main, so they have they do have scruff 209 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: occasionally if they have a main. I love that. I 210 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: was looking at a drawing and they show just in 211 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: front of the ears they then they literally call it 212 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: the side burn and the beard because it's it's almost 213 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: never fully encompassing or going all the way around the 214 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: neck like you see traditionally. But I guess these two 215 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: I was just looking at pictures. Did they had a 216 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: little little, tiny, very little bit of main. Well. And 217 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: that's the hard part though, is that if you look 218 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: at the pictures of these particular lions in the I 219 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: can't remember what museum they're in right now, that those 220 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,479 Speaker 1: are the skins of those lions after they were rugs 221 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: for about twenty years, so they weren't in great condition 222 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: when they were brought in. If you look at the 223 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: photos from after they were shot, it doesn't look like 224 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: there's a whole lot there then, but it's also not 225 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 1: they're old images. It's really hard to tell. Yeah, but 226 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: apparently they were skillfully restored and now they're they're stuff 227 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: that looked like the real thing they do, except they're smaller. 228 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: They're much smaller than they would be normally because of 229 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: the fact that they were skinned to make into rugs 230 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: and not to make into replicas exactly mannequins or whatever 231 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: you wanna call it. I can't think, Yeah, they had 232 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: trimmed away parts of the skins, but there's aren't they 233 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: in Chicago The Field Museum in um Chicago, Illinois. Thanks 234 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: looking up. I knew it was feel something I can 235 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: remember what it was. Um. Well, let's talk a little 236 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,079 Speaker 1: bit more about Savo lions, though it's a cup of 237 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: things more to talk about here. We talked about the 238 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: fact that they're larger than the Serengetti lions, and it's 239 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: believed that that might be that they're actually a more 240 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: primitive version of the lion, because if you see apparently 241 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: if you look at the drawings from like the Egyptians, 242 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: because there was lions running around at two thousand years 243 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: ago in that region, they look the same. They don't 244 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: have a main and they're very large and the illustrations, 245 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: So that's one of the reasons. The other thing is 246 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: that these lions are not The males especially are notably 247 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: super aggressive because they have really high levels of testosterone, 248 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: so they are prone to their automatic reaction is to attack, 249 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: just because they're always kind of their dudes, they're totally 250 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: worked up all the time. I know that. Yeah, so um, 251 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: we'll go back to the story though. As I said, 252 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: the workers were spread over a large area again about 253 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: ten twenty miles, and the lions started to attack, and 254 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: they were attack primarily at night. They didn't show up 255 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: every night, so it wasn't as if it was every 256 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: single night they were there. Half a human is a 257 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: lot of meal. I would say human would make a 258 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: couple of days. The other thing, though, is that when 259 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: they showed up, they were much more likely to attack 260 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: the livestock as they were the people, because you gotta remember, 261 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: it's a camp of workers who have to have work 262 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: animals or draft animals, and they've also got to feed themselves, 263 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: so there's tons of livestock around, so it's whatever seemed 264 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: most convenient pickens whenever it was easy pickings. Yes, I 265 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: think if I was putting up my tent. If I 266 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: wasn't one of them workers, I would like stick goats 267 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: and cows all around it. Yeah. Well, you know, the 268 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: thing is is that they did. Everybody was trying to 269 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: keep the lions out. So what the coolies would do 270 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: is they would they would build fences. They were called 271 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: boma fences, and they would use the local acacia, which 272 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: is a super thorny tree and bush, and they build 273 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: fences out of that, so it's, you know, it's a 274 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: it's a barbed wire fence of nature at this point. 275 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: And they would also like big camp fires and keep 276 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: those fires going all night long in the hopes that 277 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: the sound and the light would keep the lions from 278 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: coming in. It didn't didn't work so well because the 279 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: lions kept getting through the fences and kept yeah, they 280 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: were there. Well, there's a there's a really interesting account 281 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: where a lion actually got into a tent where a 282 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: guy was sleeping, and in the scuffle and panic ended 283 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: up grabbing the mattress, the sleeping mattress the guy had 284 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: and running away with that. And so the guy got 285 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: away into lion got a couple of I'm guessing a 286 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: couple of yards, realized it didn't have its prey and 287 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: dropped it and continued. I feel like that might say 288 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: something bad about the state of the worker, that they 289 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: were easily mistaken for a mattress. Well, I think it's 290 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: in the dark, in a tent, in the scuffle with 291 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: the smells are your primary it's a sleeping pad that 292 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: you sleep on or a mattress. Things, Well, maybe it is. 293 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. You're right, Okay, you're right. A mattress 294 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: and a human are interchangeable. They are. That's why I 295 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: have one sitting in my cube right now at the office. 296 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: Everybody thinks I'm working diligently, wait till they realize it's 297 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: sorta all right. So April of that year, um. At 298 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: this point, Paterson has been there for about a month 299 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 1: or so, and now the rail line is extended forty 300 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: miles away from the Tsavo, and there's only a couple 301 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: of hundred workers left at the camp who are building 302 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: the bridge. And because this is where, you know, the 303 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: bulk of the humans have moved on, and the camp 304 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 1: is around the bridge, that's where the lions start to 305 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: focus their attacks exactly. And so Patterson he he um. 306 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: So he was brought in from India, where he had 307 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: done a whole bunch of lion or not lion but 308 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: tiger hunting, and so he considered himself a hunter of 309 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: big cats. What he would do is he would climb 310 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: a tree at night and he would sit in the 311 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: tree all night long hoping that he could spot and 312 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: then shoot one of the lions. Obviously, he didn't have 313 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: a whole lot of luck with it. The you know, 314 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: he's in a tree. One night, the lions show up, 315 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: They get into the hospital tent and they take somebody away. 316 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,239 Speaker 1: So he says, move the move the hospital tent. So 317 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: they do. The lion goes to the new location of 318 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: the hospital tent and take somebody else away. I think 319 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: it was the water boy. Um takes him away. So 320 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: then they do it a third time. They moved the 321 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: tent a third time, and I'm like, why is he doing? 322 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: Does he not realize that lions can smell? Like, why 323 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: are you moving it? Yea, they're not stupid, but these 324 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: ones particularly, And what he did this time when he 325 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: moved to hospital to the third time, as he put 326 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 1: up this rail car contraction that he had designed and 327 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: had cattle in it, and the idea I think was 328 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: that to get the lion in, shut the door so 329 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: the lion couldn't get out, and then you could, you know, 330 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: shooting fish in a barrel, lions in a car kind 331 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: of the same thing for him, except it didn't work out. 332 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: The lion got a cow, got in, got the cow, 333 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: got it out of the car, but then couldn't figure 334 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: out how to get it through the fence, and eventually 335 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: took off through the fence. So when the thing I 336 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: guess what happened though, is that Patterson and the camp doctor, 337 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: because it was near where the hospital site was, were 338 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: out there at night, and the lion at that point, 339 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: instead of trying to continue to drag the cow out 340 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: of the fence, turned around and started stalking these two guys. Yeah. Yeah, 341 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: So obviously it's very aggressive. When I have just killed something, 342 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: I can't get it, I'm gonna kill something else. I'm 343 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: still hungry. I'm I'm totally still hungry. Um. So it 344 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: did eventually attempt to attack them, and this is where 345 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: Patterson shot at it, and he said he managed to 346 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: wound it by shooting one of its teeth, and that 347 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: scared it away enough and the whole tooth thing is 348 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: supported with the actual jaw of one of the lions. 349 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: There is a broken tooth. Now, whether that tooth was 350 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 1: shot by him or broken in some other manner, that's 351 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: that's in dispute. But it seems weird. It seems like 352 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: a hell of a lucky shot. Well, it seems it 353 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: would kill the lion shoot him in the head basically, 354 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: Well not if you shoot it from the side or 355 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: from it or you know, or if it goes out. 356 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: Think of if it went through the cheek. Yeah, I 357 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: suppose it could have been deflected. Yeah, I mean, there's 358 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of ways that this could happen either way. 359 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: Like I said, I don't I think that mostly it 360 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: was right there and he shot it, scared the holy 361 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 1: crap at him, and it took off. But that's that's 362 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: just my opinion. So of core. Okay, so we've got 363 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 1: the whole He shot at the mouth. The lions then 364 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: take off for a while, and they leave the camp 365 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: for several weeks, and I'm sure Patterson is just relieved 366 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: and thinking, well, yeah, I got rid of them. Scared 367 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 1: him off, I did it. Yeah, unbeknownst that's what British 368 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: accents sound like. Right, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um. 369 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: Unbeknownst to him, what the lions had been doing during 370 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: that couple of weeks was actually stalking um some of 371 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: the other construction camps that were farther away. And they 372 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: do eventually return to the bridge site. This is several 373 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: weeks later. One of the cats enters and drags a 374 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: worker away, and these and and both of them show 375 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: up to the body of this worker. And this is 376 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: how brazen they get. After a while, they only dragged 377 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 1: the body thirty feet away from the thirty yards away 378 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: from the camp and then begin to have their meal. 379 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: So they're obviously not intimidated by people, which at this 380 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,479 Speaker 1: point I'd be thinking of a career change. Yeah, me too. 381 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I wouldn't be there, No, not at all. 382 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: And and so this this continues for months. These lions 383 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: can keep coming back and they keep making a kill 384 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: and taking something, whether it be human or a four 385 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: legged critter away as a meal. We get to the 386 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: first of December and at this point most of the 387 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: workers board the train and they leave. They've they've kind 388 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: of had enough that there's just this is not worth it, 389 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: and they're gone. There's some people yeah, yeah, it makes sense. 390 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: There's some people left, there's some workers who are going 391 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: to try and stay on. On the ninth of December, 392 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: one of the lions manages to kill a donkey that's 393 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: in camp, and Patterson sees this is his opportunity. And 394 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: what he does is he has a bunch of guys 395 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: go around behind it and then come at it, making 396 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: as much noise as they can to startle it, to 397 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: scare it out into the open so that he can, 398 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: you know, shoot it. Well, he does manage to hit it. 399 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: He does manage to wound the lion, but it gets away, 400 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: but he's pretty sure that it's going to come back 401 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: because it wants to get the meal the donkey. So 402 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: what does he do. He builds a platform that he 403 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,479 Speaker 1: can sit on and be in a perch. He waits, 404 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: uh lo and behold, the lion comes back, but this 405 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: time it doesn't come back for the donkey. It instead 406 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: is uh it's it approaches Patterson on his perch instead 407 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: of going to the donkey. Yeah. Are we doing that 408 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: thing that we do when we listen to Steve stories 409 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: where we do like the Grandios storytelling of the night 410 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: and then go back and like talk about stuff. So 411 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: here's the thing is that, from what I can tell, 412 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: the majority of the story comes from Patterson himself. So 413 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: the details, the accounts of how it happened, he was 414 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: this was something that happened. A lot of guys would do. 415 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: Is you would be off somewhere and you'd write at 416 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: a you know, a bit of an adventure that it happened. 417 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 1: You'd sell it to newspapers. And it seems that that's 418 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: what Patterson is doing. And then eventually he collected those 419 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: and he put those into a book that he wrote, 420 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: and that's where almost all of this story is sourced from. Now, 421 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: the lions are real, and it is the fact that 422 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: they were killing people is real. Now his they were 423 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: talking me and they came after me and I shot. 424 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: It's Canaine tooth off. That's that's all Patterson. That's all Patterson. 425 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 1: And there's no reason not to believe them. There there is. Okay, 426 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: So let's talk about this briefly. Let me finish what 427 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: happens to this line, and then I want to talk 428 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: about something to follow up on that. What happens with 429 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: this line is that it's circling underneath him while he's 430 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: in his perch, and he goes ahead and takes more 431 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: shots at it. He does manage to hit it. Um, 432 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: he hits it two more times and manages to kill it. 433 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: So he took a total of three bullets to put 434 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: this creature down. Um. Now, I want to talk real 435 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: briefly about his writings and his book. Did either of 436 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: you get a chance? It's all available online to skim 437 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,919 Speaker 1: through any of that not. Okay, so it's not the 438 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: greatest read in the world. But what's very funny is 439 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: that about the first third to half of the book 440 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 1: is dedicated to this story, and then after that it's 441 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 1: all his accounts of hunting big cats. So he becomes 442 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: the man eater killer. So he goes hunting after lions. 443 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 1: He starts hunting tigers again. Um. So he's like a 444 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 1: dentist's son something like that, excepted like when you when 445 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: you get into his stories, it's I shot the beast 446 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: and it left back up and charged back at me. 447 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: Like he always describes these things as if they are 448 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: they're just amazingly resilient and impervious to bullets. You know, 449 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: the bullet went right through it, but it didn't phaze it. 450 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: It kept running at me, does happen. That does happen. 451 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: But when you read one after the next after the 452 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: next that has the same kind of discus options of 453 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: the events, that's when I worry a little bit about it. 454 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: So some of this may have you know, I don't 455 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: know how much he I don't want to say inflated 456 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: bedazzle the dazzle fact. So you actually tigerheading especially is dangerous. 457 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: I saw this incredible video this It was like a 458 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: first person's shotgun of thing. Someone just holding a camera 459 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: riding on the back of an elephant, I assume in India, 460 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: and it runs up on the elephant suddenly suddenly it 461 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 1: just comes charging out of the grass and then I 462 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: just like babies on the elephant come upside of the 463 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: elephant and that's the end of it. Yeah, So I 464 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: I assume whoever was holding the camera died. I think 465 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: I remember that one. And I don't think that person died. 466 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,479 Speaker 1: I think that's just where the video broke. We should 467 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: just make clear, if it's not abundantly clear already, we 468 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 1: are not advocating hunting of game like it's horrible. Well 469 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: unless they're but and if they're actually killing people, that 470 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: I can sort of sure. If it's like I have 471 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 1: to put this animal down for safety, fine, that's a 472 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 1: totally different thing. We're talking about a late nineteenth century event. 473 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: This was commonplace at the time. It was believed. Everybody 474 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 1: believed that this was. Okay, there's tons of these animals. 475 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: We can't it doesn't matter. Yeah, I just mean that, 476 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: as we're starting to talk about, you know, it's really dangerous, dangerous. 477 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: So don't well that's that story Joe's talking about. I 478 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 1: don't think that's an actual tiger hunt. That is just 479 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: somebody on the back of an elephant. I just want 480 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: to make sure that everyone knows that we are not appreciate. 481 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: And I agree with you there. Okay, So what happened 482 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: to the second lion? Okay, so at this point we've 483 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: only got one lion um and a couple of nights later, 484 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: it comes back to camp and it attacks two goats, 485 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: and so Patterson decides, well, you know what, I evidently 486 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: it's got a taste for goats. I'm gonna put a 487 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: couple of more goats out, and he ties three goats 488 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 1: out to a railroad tie. Early, so partial railroad tie, 489 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: and if anybody's picked up a railroad tie. They're freaking heavy. Well, 490 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: this lion shows up, kills one of the goats and 491 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: then drags it and the railroad tie away, well presumably 492 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: also the other two goats. You know, as I reread this, 493 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if maybe it was three goats tied to 494 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: three individual railroad ties would make more sense. Probably. Um. 495 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,959 Speaker 1: So they, of course they go ahead and they you 496 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: know that he takes shots at it because he's such 497 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: a good shot. He puts like three or four or 498 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: five shots at it, but he had never managed to 499 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: hit it. Um, it was it was dark. It was dark. 500 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: I'm I'm being a little bit of a jerk to Patterson. 501 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: It was it was dark at night. There wasn't a 502 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: whole lot of light. But the next day they he 503 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: and several workers follow the trail and they find um, 504 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: they find the lion. Uh it ran off. So at 505 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: this point he goes ahead and he builds himself another platform. 506 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: One was bad. Well, they were both hunting people in 507 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: the camps. It wasn't like one st oh Billy lion 508 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: always stays at camp and Timmy Lyon always goes and 509 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: hunts the people. They were both doing it. So he 510 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: builds himself another perch. He's sitting on the perch um 511 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: that night and the lion returns and he does manage 512 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: to shoot it twice. Evidently he had a double barrel 513 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: gun and the lion walked directly underneath his perch, and 514 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,959 Speaker 1: he simply enough pointed down and pulled both triggers and 515 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: shot its. Quite a kick. It had to be those 516 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: big game guns in Africa. There's those double barreled ones 517 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: for enormous rounds. Yeah. Yeah, So he shoots it, but 518 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,239 Speaker 1: he doesn't actually kill it, and it takes off, and 519 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: they are and and this lion stays away for another 520 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: ten days. At this point they're thinking, well, it must 521 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: have died from its wounds. Except then on the twenty 522 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: nine December, it returns and it tries to pull a 523 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: worker who's sleeping in a tree out of the tree. 524 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: Uh it. The guy manages to not be taken, so 525 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: Patterson says, okay, well it likes this tree, you go 526 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: sleep somewhere else. I'm going to climb up into the tree. 527 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: And uh, it does come back, comes back to that tree, 528 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: and he manages to get another another two shots into it, 529 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,959 Speaker 1: at which point it runs away again. In the morning, 530 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: they follow the trail of blood and they do find 531 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: the lion and apparently when they got to it, I'm 532 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: guessing they must have found it kind of cornered because 533 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: it charged him and he dumps so many bullets into it. 534 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: He said he shot it five or six times, so 535 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: he put in like beat multiple guns. He had guys 536 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: carrying loaded weapon. Yeah, yeah, and so he managed to 537 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: put five or six shots into it, so totally like 538 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: now bullets. I just like the idea of a guy 539 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: being like, yeah, yeah, you you seven people carry my guns. No, no, 540 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: don't shoot them, don't help me, just hand them to me. 541 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: You are the worker, I am, I'm the hero. I'm 542 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: the hero. I'm the protagonist of this story, damn it. Yeah. 543 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: And that those people none of them had any experience 544 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: shooting those I mean absolutely, and yes, that's it is 545 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: like taking that story a little far. But I just 546 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: like the image of him saying like, no, no, don't 547 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: help me. And can you see him taking two shots 548 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: as the lion is running at him. He's like bang bang, 549 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: holds the gun back and is waiting for somebody to 550 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: take it. And that's why I yeah, why, like you know, 551 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: a lion is charging you. I don't know why your 552 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: initial reaction wouldn't be I have a gun that's loaded, 553 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: I will aim and pull. Yeah, there's a lot of kicks, 554 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: you know, blah blah blah. But if you know seven 555 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 1: guns are going off with double barrels at once, the 556 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: chances of hitting that animal are pretty dang good. Instead, 557 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: what a lot of the accounts were, You know what? 558 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: The primary method of getting away from an attacking lion 559 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: was climb a tree. It was so funny. This is 560 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: another thing I picked up from his book. Is And 561 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: then I turned around and so and so who had 562 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: my gun had lost his nerve, And I saw him 563 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: ten feet up the nearest tree, like they would do that. 564 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: So to be able to stand there and hand this 565 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: guy gun after gun that actually takes a lot of 566 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: willpower to to expect not to be just obliterated by 567 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: this angry cat that's running it. It might be that 568 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: there wasn't a tree near by to climb up either, 569 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: so I think I had had no choice. Maybe it's 570 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: also funny to me because I'm pretty sure lions do climb. 571 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the cats, they can totally sure why they 572 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: would say no, they can't get me up here, definitely not. Well. Yeah, 573 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: but if if there's more than one of you, if 574 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: you're the first up the tree, then and there's the 575 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: fact that when you're smaller and lighter, you can go 576 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: up farther than the lion camp before it gets that's 577 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: my advantage in this world. I can escape lions faster 578 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,239 Speaker 1: or at least higher than anyone else. As long as 579 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: you can jump up and get the branch. That's a problem. 580 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: Um Okay. So at this point Patterson is killed both 581 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: of the lions. He is triumphant. He finishes his bridge, 582 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: and he goes on. Like I said, he writes a 583 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: book and he does all this stuff to kind of 584 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: make a living in in a sense. On his deeds, 585 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: he says that these lions killed at least, if not 586 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: more than a hundred and thirty five men in the 587 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 1: nine months that they were stalking everybody at the camp. 588 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: That seems like a lot, it really does. That would 589 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: be if you do the math, that is one person 590 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: every other day during the time frame for nine months, 591 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: for nine months. I persely feel that more likely what's 592 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: happening is that people are getting they're scared out of 593 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:08,879 Speaker 1: their minds and they're bailing. They're they're leaving, and you go, oh, 594 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: well where is he? Uh? I don't know, Well, the 595 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: lion must have got him like that. It also would 596 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: be if if there was some kind of shady you know, 597 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: if the workers were kind of like indentured workers or 598 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: something like that, it would be a good way to 599 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: escape without people going after your family. Maybe. But it 600 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: was but it was imperial written, so it's not like 601 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,439 Speaker 1: they would turn around and say you your your your 602 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: son escaped that ran away from the work. It was. 603 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: They didn't seem to be practicing slavery. I mean they 604 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: were trying to get rid of slavery in the area. No, 605 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: I don't mean slavery, but I just mean, you know, 606 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: if there was some sort of deal that was set up, 607 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: like I'm working off my debt or something, would be 608 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: a really easy way to be like, you know what, 609 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: A lion probably took me. Maybe I don't know that's 610 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 1: what the arrangement was. I don't either. I just um, 611 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: I do want to point out though, with this hundred 612 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: and thirty five number, that it's probably wrong. Um. As 613 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: we've already been talking about, there is some tests that 614 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,319 Speaker 1: were done with science that I totally don't understand. But 615 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: they did tests on the skin and the hair of 616 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: the lions, and they were looking for delta thirteen C 617 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: and nitrogen fifteen and somehow use that to determine how 618 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 1: many people each of the lions had eaten, right, Yeah, 619 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: And they figured out that one of them must have 620 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: eaten ten people and the other one must have eaten 621 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: twenty five. So one of them was more likely to 622 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,399 Speaker 1: eat kill and eat a person than the other one. 623 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: I'm guessing the other one was more interested in the 624 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: goats and the horses and the cattle and donkeys and 625 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 1: everything else that was there. You know, goats a lot 626 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: easier to carry away, true, but it pre Yeah, but 627 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: you gotta eat three goats in a night. You're not 628 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: that big. I don't know. Do you think one goat 629 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,919 Speaker 1: would not be enough? I don't think a goat would 630 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: be enough, But that's just I think a goat is 631 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: the same as half a person or third at least. 632 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: Really yeah, more, I think you're nothing, but send you 633 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: in guts and bone. Sorry, I don't need to goat 634 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: a whole lot. Well I have there. There's not a 635 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: whole lot to them you just buy a six pack. 636 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: That's what the lion was doing. Why is the six 637 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: pack tied to this heavy, heavy thing? Headlon must have 638 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: been so peeved. Yeah, okay, ok, well that is the 639 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: end of the story. So at this point now we 640 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,760 Speaker 1: need to get into the theories because our original question 641 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: is what was it that was driving these two lions 642 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,720 Speaker 1: to be attacking humans sactly. There's a number of theories. 643 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 1: The first theory that we're going to talk about is 644 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: the slave trade, because, as we said in the beginning, 645 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: slave trade was pretty active in area, and one of 646 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: the very well known behaviors slave traders is that if 647 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: a slave dies, you just drop them where they fall. 648 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: You leave them there and you keep on going. You 649 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: don't bother to give them a burial or anything like that, 650 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: and you might dump them off the trail. A little 651 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: bits aren't demoralized. But lions are scavengers. They have no 652 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: problem with scavenging. They can be scavengers. Yeah, so they 653 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: you know, if they are wanding along and oh hey, um, 654 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: there's there's a there's a thing there, and you know 655 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: the hyenas have already started ripping into it. And I 656 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: bet you I could get some food out of it, 657 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: just like the NF. I'm walking on the street and 658 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: I see I see a twinkie on the sidewalk, you know, 659 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: go for it. That's so gross, dude, so gross that 660 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 1: you're eating twinkies and be off the sidewalk. Yeah, okay, 661 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: let's keep going. Um. Oh. The other thing about the 662 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 1: Tsavo River is apparently, according to they're reading it was 663 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 1: the river itself was a bit of a dumping ground 664 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: for bodies. Because the I'm guessing I've got to presume 665 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: that it's because the route that they took followed the river, 666 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: so if somebody dies, you just chucked the body in. 667 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,240 Speaker 1: Some bodies were floating down the river all the time. 668 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,320 Speaker 1: That's my presumption on that. So the theory here goes 669 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: that these lions um, at this point they're used to 670 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: having human remains around to scavengehn, so they come to 671 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: consider humans as a normal food source. And if you 672 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 1: think about it, if there's you know, let's say there's 673 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: a bunch of slaves tied up at night in a 674 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: camp and you just come running in and they don't 675 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 1: fight back and they can't run away, well that's the 676 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:54,280 Speaker 1: best cafeteria ever. Yeah, so they would at that point consider, um, 677 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: you know, people's food source. And now the camps are 678 00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 1: setting up, so you've got this abundance of humans. That's great. 679 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 1: And then add to this, Oh and look, they've also 680 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: brought along all these other animals, you know, like we 681 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: talked about before, the goats, the donkeys, the horses, the cows, 682 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 1: all of that stuff that that it's just it's too tempting. Well, 683 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: all these things that I know how to eat are here. 684 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: He totally can't blame them. I mean, I would take 685 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 1: advantage of a great opportunity like that. Yeah, and and 686 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,399 Speaker 1: well then that's the theory though. I mean, I don't 687 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: know what your thoughts are on this in terms of 688 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: the scavenging, but this is this theory says it basically 689 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 1: they got used to eating people, so people are on 690 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: the menu. I guess for me, it just seems like 691 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: it's a leap to go from this is a super 692 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: easy thing that doesn't fight back at all. It's just 693 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: easy meat that's laying there to go to this is 694 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: a thing that fights back, and I have to like 695 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: break into a camp and be really smart just because 696 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: it's meat that's similar to what they're used to instead 697 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:58,799 Speaker 1: of targeting their normal I guess natural prey, because I mean, 698 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 1: it's not as though there was a short age of 699 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: normal prey for them around the area, right, we'll talk 700 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: about that there there is something. If that's the case, 701 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,479 Speaker 1: then yes, I agree, you know, but if you also 702 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: think about it, if they're used to walking up and 703 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 1: seeing a body and then snacking on that body, and 704 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: now they walk up and that body is still laying 705 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: on the ground, it just happens to be in this 706 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: weird contraption that humans call a tent. Well, then you 707 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: just walk in and then you grab the body as 708 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 1: you normally do, and oh, it's struggling. Will I better 709 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 1: run away with it? The real hard because that's the 710 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: thing is that you know, I I guess I never 711 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 1: really thought about it, though I knew it is the 712 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,840 Speaker 1: way that lions kill. They their natural method of killing 713 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: is to grab the throat and clamp down and suffocate 714 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: while at the same time thrashing about to break the neck. 715 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 1: And so it's either breaking the neck or suffocating their prey. 716 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,320 Speaker 1: And that makes sense when you think about it, but 717 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: I had never thought it. So that would explain why 718 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 1: you know they're coming they're like, do the quick clamp 719 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,319 Speaker 1: and run the thing is gonna die. Yeah, let's go 720 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,400 Speaker 1: to a sort of similar theory. So our second theory 721 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: is similar. Um it's it's described as partial cremations. And 722 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 1: I will be honest that I only saw that in 723 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: one or two places. I saw the term partial cremations. 724 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 1: In one place, I saw some other stuff that we'll 725 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 1: talk about this in Patterson's book. But I have to 726 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: I have to admit that I tried to get a 727 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 1: better sense of what partial cremations meant. I'm doing research 728 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,840 Speaker 1: on it. All I can figure is that somebody tried 729 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: to cremate the body to light a fire, but they 730 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: didn't do a good job of it, so the body 731 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 1: didn't burn. I would guess it's the lack of like 732 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: a pire. It takes a lot of wood, actually totally consuming, 733 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: and there's not a whole lot of wood in that area. Yeah, 734 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: So I would assume that somebody set up a kind 735 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 1: of abbreviated, if you will, little pile and set them 736 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: on fire and watch for a little while, and then 737 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,319 Speaker 1: you walk away, assuming it will continue to burn, and 738 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: it goes out and it's just a half burned corpse. 739 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,880 Speaker 1: And related to that, um the other place that I 740 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 1: saw some descriptions of not exactly the same thing. But 741 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,360 Speaker 1: in Patterson's reading or in his book, I came across 742 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: some stuff about the fact that there were poorly dug graves. 743 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 1: So people would try to bury somebody, but they would 744 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 1: only you know, dig down a little bit and then 745 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: cover the body up, and then other scavengers would come 746 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:34,800 Speaker 1: along and dig it up. Now, Patterson, he says these things, 747 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 1: he blaming the people who were burying the body in 748 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 1: kind of a derogatory way. But really I think it's 749 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,239 Speaker 1: just that they buried a body not expecting critters to 750 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,440 Speaker 1: come dig it back up, and critters dig it back up. 751 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,960 Speaker 1: And so this again is following the line the same 752 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,359 Speaker 1: lines as the last one of well, now they're used 753 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: to eating people because they've been scavenging on them. It's 754 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: possible they were slaves too. I mean, it's possible that 755 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 1: slaves weren't actually just unceremoniously dumped but kind of haphazardly 756 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:04,280 Speaker 1: given some kind of something. Right, Yeah, that's absolutely possible. 757 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not unlikely that a lot of workers 758 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: were dying while they were working on it. If they 759 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,479 Speaker 1: send you out to digging grave for somebody and bury 760 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,839 Speaker 1: the body, and the people tend to cut corners a lot, 761 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 1: you know, you might be tempted to bury the two 762 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,799 Speaker 1: or three feet down and just take that, take the 763 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 1: rest of the day off, and just say he spent 764 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,200 Speaker 1: all day digging the grave really well, and building railroads 765 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: was not a safe occupation. People died almost freaking time. Yeah. 766 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,839 Speaker 1: I actually kind of wonder if that's part of the 767 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,920 Speaker 1: number that he had in terms of where that dy 768 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,920 Speaker 1: five number came. Is that somebody somebody died and they 769 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: didn't want to say, oh, well, we accidentally had this 770 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 1: pile of stuff fall on him. They just said, oh, 771 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: well the lion took him. Yeah, that's entirely possible as well. 772 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,799 Speaker 1: The next theory that we have, which we alluded to 773 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,319 Speaker 1: a little bit, this is the one that we were 774 00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: kind of talking about, which is the food source. The 775 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: theory is cattle plaques. The Savo lions are one of 776 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 1: the only animals that are able to take down kate buffalo. 777 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 1: And if you don't know what a kate buffalo is, 778 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,720 Speaker 1: it's kind of like a water buffalo. They're not actually related, 779 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,399 Speaker 1: but it looks like a water buffalo only bigger. They're 780 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 1: huge creatures and there's tons of meat on them. The 781 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,919 Speaker 1: problem is is a food source for lions. They kind 782 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,480 Speaker 1: of suck because they're just as likely to injure or 783 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 1: kill the lion as not, so they're very tough to 784 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: take down. I would definitely be looking for easier sources 785 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,439 Speaker 1: of food well, and lucky for the lions, we as 786 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: humans love cows, and we brought a whole bunch of 787 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: cows to the area, so the lions would have been 788 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,239 Speaker 1: well calos cow was much easier to eat. Well, yeah, 789 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 1: it does. But the thing is that cows are not 790 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,279 Speaker 1: very good at fighting back, so chances are good that 791 00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:01,120 Speaker 1: they're easier to take down, except that they're was in 792 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,839 Speaker 1: the nineties a rash of cattle plagues. Um there is. 793 00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:12,160 Speaker 1: It is render pest disease, which is basically a fatal 794 00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:17,440 Speaker 1: disease for cattle. They get lesions and they have problems 795 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,000 Speaker 1: in their sinuses and it's really kind of grows. So 796 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:21,879 Speaker 1: only if you've got a strong stomach do you look 797 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: at some of this, because it's not pretty and it 798 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:28,439 Speaker 1: takes him down pretty quickly, and it was taking out 799 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:34,880 Speaker 1: entire herds at this time. In the mid to late 800 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,880 Speaker 1: eighteen nineties. So if these lions have now learned to 801 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,080 Speaker 1: hunt cows and hey, the cows are no longer available 802 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:48,719 Speaker 1: and I'm starving, show up and I have all these 803 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: people show up that are making all this noise and 804 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 1: they smell and there's blood and they're cooking. Well, then 805 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 1: that would explain why they would go there with the 806 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:04,480 Speaker 1: game all that. Yeah, but I think that it render pest. 807 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,760 Speaker 1: I said render pest, but it could be render pest. 808 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 1: I'm not positive. Somebody out there looking. Yeah, but I 809 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,799 Speaker 1: think it killed either game. Then just kill off the cows, right, 810 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 1: I didn't kill other game besides even toad ungulates. Yeah, 811 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,560 Speaker 1: so that means printers that have cloven hoofs so to 812 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,800 Speaker 1: to toes, so it would get killed giraffes. It killed 813 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 1: the antelope. It actually killed some of the cape buffalo 814 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,440 Speaker 1: and what was the other one? No, not the devil. 815 00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,759 Speaker 1: It did not kill the robot devil um, but it 816 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,480 Speaker 1: you know, it killed off all of these other animals 817 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,439 Speaker 1: that oh it was dear was the other one, because 818 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,879 Speaker 1: there are deer in the area, so it's killing off 819 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,680 Speaker 1: all these these prey animals. So it's not just the 820 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,080 Speaker 1: cows that are gone. At this point, there's a lot 821 00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,840 Speaker 1: of animals that are disappearing because it's spreading through the 822 00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: entire areas. Here's my problem with this idea, So this 823 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,280 Speaker 1: is the first one that I'm gonna say I kind 824 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:07,120 Speaker 1: of call bunk on, is that if that were the case, 825 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 1: because this was all over the region, why is it 826 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,600 Speaker 1: only these two lions that we know about who were 827 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,560 Speaker 1: just going on these giant human killing sprees. Um, I 828 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:26,320 Speaker 1: guess my question would be how close to human populations 829 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,840 Speaker 1: were other lions, you know, because this it seems like 830 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,359 Speaker 1: the sort of thing where lions at this point, if 831 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 1: they have you know, a few prey options, are going 832 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,600 Speaker 1: to go for whatever is easiest and closest. They're not 833 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 1: gonna make fifty sixty seventy mile tracks to find a 834 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:46,080 Speaker 1: population of humans. To get a human in a hut, 835 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,279 Speaker 1: that's like you have to break in, and there's like 836 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:52,080 Speaker 1: all this sort of stuffed law versus like these two. 837 00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,760 Speaker 1: It just so happened that a huge group of humans 838 00:47:55,239 --> 00:48:00,720 Speaker 1: we're just walking through their territory, camping in easy access tense. So, 839 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 1: you know, for me, it doesn't bother me that much, 840 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,719 Speaker 1: I guess because they You know, I presume most people 841 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,040 Speaker 1: in that area where you know, had huts and things 842 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,480 Speaker 1: like that, more permanent structures that would be harder for 843 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: a lion to get into versus these workers permanent structure. Right, 844 00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,799 Speaker 1: they're they're living in a tent and they're they're like 845 00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,920 Speaker 1: easy access because they've just wandered right into the middle 846 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,879 Speaker 1: of these two lions territory, you know that sort of thing, 847 00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,799 Speaker 1: I guess. And were there a lot of people living 848 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,880 Speaker 1: in that area, so it wasn't heavily populated, It was 849 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,440 Speaker 1: nowhere to nowhere, remember, yeah, I mean the area was 850 00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:39,480 Speaker 1: very rural. There were cattle everywhere. But if you think 851 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:43,719 Speaker 1: about it, a huge herd can be overseen by a 852 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,800 Speaker 1: very small group of people, So I mean, in villages 853 00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:50,560 Speaker 1: aren't typically all that huge. And as you said, these lions, 854 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,879 Speaker 1: even in their most aggressive state, were just as likely 855 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,839 Speaker 1: to go after livestock as they were humans. So if 856 00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,760 Speaker 1: there's humans living in huts and livestock out, it wouldn't 857 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,160 Speaker 1: be that weird that we wouldn't have reports from this 858 00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,839 Speaker 1: time that if there were livestock that were healthy in 859 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,040 Speaker 1: in villages that lions were taking those that wouldn't be 860 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 1: Plus the eligenous people who were living in that area 861 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,279 Speaker 1: probably weren't writing the accounts of the lions stealing their 862 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,839 Speaker 1: goat and sending it to the bridge, and they were like, oh, yeah, uh, 863 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:25,319 Speaker 1: a lion stole another goat. Weird now that that makes 864 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:29,240 Speaker 1: a ton of sense, But they aren't retract my distaste 865 00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,879 Speaker 1: for this theory. So I like this theory, Well, let's 866 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,560 Speaker 1: go to a theory that I'm going to see if 867 00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:40,239 Speaker 1: you really like our next theory is bad teeth. So 868 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,920 Speaker 1: these lions had to go see a dentist. There are 869 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:48,239 Speaker 1: some researchers, and I apologize I failed to write down 870 00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:50,760 Speaker 1: the name of these two gentlemen, but there are two 871 00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,800 Speaker 1: researchers who have done a lot of studies on lions 872 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,360 Speaker 1: in general, and part of their studies were on the 873 00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:00,319 Speaker 1: Tsavo lions. And they say that they exam then the 874 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:04,960 Speaker 1: skulls of these two and one of them had missing canines. 875 00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,880 Speaker 1: It was the upper left. I want to say that 876 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:13,840 Speaker 1: the canines were missing and that those were there, And 877 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,560 Speaker 1: then they did some X rays on the skull and 878 00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:21,319 Speaker 1: found what were signs of lesions in the jawbone. So 879 00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:23,719 Speaker 1: that led them to believe that it was probably a 880 00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:28,440 Speaker 1: very painful injury, and that it had probably happened at 881 00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,359 Speaker 1: least two years before the animal's death, and so that 882 00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,720 Speaker 1: would impede its ability to hunt prey as normal. Because 883 00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,920 Speaker 1: we talked about this before. A lion has to be 884 00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,920 Speaker 1: able to clamp down with its jaw on the throat 885 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,839 Speaker 1: and hang on. Well, if there's a set of canines 886 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,120 Speaker 1: and one side missing, you aren't going to have as 887 00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:54,839 Speaker 1: good of a bite. People are slower and weaker than you. Know. Yes, 888 00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:59,399 Speaker 1: we don't fight nearly as hard and softer, yes we 889 00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,520 Speaker 1: Our skin is much thinner, puts the lotion on. I 890 00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:10,000 Speaker 1: was going to make that joke, Sorr that um, so 891 00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,640 Speaker 1: then we go to so it wasn't Actually uh, I 892 00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:15,520 Speaker 1: think I was wrong with the upper left in turns 893 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,000 Speaker 1: of the missing canines, But it doesn't matter because I'm 894 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,239 Speaker 1: now looking here because they did examine the skull of 895 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:26,439 Speaker 1: the second lion and that lion had fractures in its 896 00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,600 Speaker 1: jaw which were around the teeth in the upper left. 897 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:31,600 Speaker 1: So that's where I was getting the upper left from. Well, 898 00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,520 Speaker 1: I mean the idea here though, is that again it's 899 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,880 Speaker 1: hurts and it's not able to hunt effectively. It would 900 00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,319 Speaker 1: explain if they were brothers. If they were related, right, 901 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,439 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be so crazy that they both had this thing. 902 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 1: But it would also explain why as they matured they 903 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,840 Speaker 1: continue to rely on each other because they weren't effective hunters, 904 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:53,080 Speaker 1: so they had to work as a team to be effective. Yeah, 905 00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,880 Speaker 1: I don't hate it. I don't love it, but I 906 00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,320 Speaker 1: don't hate it. It's not usual. Typically when an animal 907 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,640 Speaker 1: does start at the human populations, like say a mountain 908 00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:03,560 Speaker 1: lion here in the state, it's usually because he's old 909 00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,480 Speaker 1: and sick and you just can't do can't go after 910 00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,360 Speaker 1: the normal stuff anymore. But that's the thing is that 911 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,000 Speaker 1: these lions, they weren't old. So that's one thing, is 912 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,120 Speaker 1: they weren't old. But the injury, the idea that there's 913 00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,919 Speaker 1: an injury makes sense. I gotta say, though, is that 914 00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:23,360 Speaker 1: if if a lion's jaws are so injured that for 915 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:27,040 Speaker 1: from two years prior or a year prior to all 916 00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:31,000 Speaker 1: to being killed, that's a long time before these camps 917 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:34,399 Speaker 1: of people showed up. Now, maybe it's scavenging on other 918 00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,359 Speaker 1: stuff and that's how they're getting along, But I'm just 919 00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:43,000 Speaker 1: I'm curious about how they got to the time frame 920 00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:47,080 Speaker 1: that they assigned for the age. The researcher talked about 921 00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:51,279 Speaker 1: the fact that they saw there was erosion on the 922 00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:55,359 Speaker 1: teeth around it, and the bone in the socket had 923 00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:57,879 Speaker 1: begun to grow back where the tooth was at. That's 924 00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:02,280 Speaker 1: how they determined it. But I mean, does that mean 925 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:06,399 Speaker 1: that it was painful and incapable of using its jaw? 926 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,799 Speaker 1: I That's what I'm questioning. Well, I mean, maybe it's 927 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,239 Speaker 1: a combination of things. I'm just advocating for all of 928 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,000 Speaker 1: these tonight. Maybe it's a combination of you know, the 929 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,400 Speaker 1: so the railroad construction, you know, it made the slave 930 00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,360 Speaker 1: trade take a step back. So maybe what was happening is, 931 00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: you know, the slave trade was getting slaves picked off 932 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,760 Speaker 1: by these lions before when they were going through their territory, 933 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,080 Speaker 1: or their dead bodies, or maybe a combination of both. 934 00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,279 Speaker 1: And if you're partaking in an illegal slave trade, you're 935 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,160 Speaker 1: not necessarily going to be like, yeah, it's weird the 936 00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,680 Speaker 1: lions keep stealing these people that I totally own. You're 937 00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,480 Speaker 1: just gonna say it's the cost of business. Oh, No, 938 00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:47,480 Speaker 1: Apparently it was the traders were Arabs, the slave traders 939 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,759 Speaker 1: that were coming through that area, and that's so that's 940 00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:54,000 Speaker 1: that's so, I guess that would help us get to 941 00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:58,239 Speaker 1: this timeline of they had been living on humans or 942 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:03,360 Speaker 1: but didn't didn't start getting knocked back as much until 943 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,839 Speaker 1: the rail line was finished finished. Okay, well, I mean 944 00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,960 Speaker 1: that that still doesn't necessarily present a problem, but it 945 00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:12,600 Speaker 1: also I guess on top of that you can say, uh, 946 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,040 Speaker 1: but on the other hand, yeah, they if he if 947 00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,680 Speaker 1: one of them drug a goat that was attached to 948 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,479 Speaker 1: a railroad tie, you wouldn't think that if their mouth 949 00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:23,480 Speaker 1: was an intense pain, they'd be able to drag that 950 00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,480 Speaker 1: kind of weight. I think that probably that, you know, 951 00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:28,319 Speaker 1: maybe it got a little better over time, or maybe 952 00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:31,040 Speaker 1: they were just used to it, or they're just really 953 00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:35,240 Speaker 1: they're just really badass and tough, or Patterson was a 954 00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:39,719 Speaker 1: liar and where it out there. Because that's the other 955 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:44,080 Speaker 1: thing is that I have to imagine that he wrote 956 00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,839 Speaker 1: these accounts, at least the original versions that went into 957 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:51,440 Speaker 1: the papers. He probably sat down and wrote those from 958 00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,440 Speaker 1: his journal or memory, and then of course had to 959 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,960 Speaker 1: spice him up to get them bought. Yeah, well, it's 960 00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,279 Speaker 1: not as interesting a story if you say these two 961 00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,240 Speaker 1: lions were taking out humans because they were too sickly 962 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,040 Speaker 1: to take on any other prey, and I totally killed them. 963 00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:08,440 Speaker 1: It's way more you know, badass to say. Yeah, And 964 00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:11,640 Speaker 1: it was capable of dragging a goat attached to a 965 00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,880 Speaker 1: railroad tie. It was so strong and virile that I, 966 00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, and I took it down with nine shots. 967 00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,800 Speaker 1: That's a way better story, a little better story. But 968 00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:21,600 Speaker 1: I as gonna say, if I was going to put 969 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:25,200 Speaker 1: a goat out there for bait, I would totally tie 970 00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,160 Speaker 1: to a road tie. It makes sense because it's going 971 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,359 Speaker 1: to slow the lion way down when you drag away. 972 00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,560 Speaker 1: Apparently not slow enough for Patterson to shoes. By the way, 973 00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,400 Speaker 1: I do want to point out with the whole it 974 00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:38,160 Speaker 1: took nine shots to take it down. He says that 975 00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:40,680 Speaker 1: with the last two shots he shot I think he 976 00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,920 Speaker 1: shot it in the head with the last two shots. 977 00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,480 Speaker 1: But it was so aggressive and it wanted him so 978 00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,640 Speaker 1: badly that it was leaning against a branch or a 979 00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:52,640 Speaker 1: log and was gnawing at the branch or log. This 980 00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:54,480 Speaker 1: hunkle would as it was trying to get at it. 981 00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,480 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen like a cat that ladies and 982 00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,080 Speaker 1: it's trying to get something and it's it's biting at it. 983 00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:01,799 Speaker 1: If this is the big version of it, that's what 984 00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,319 Speaker 1: he's saying. But so so these are things that I 985 00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,920 Speaker 1: point out. I bring up these these descriptions in his 986 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:14,680 Speaker 1: his story because it makes me stop and go, uh, yeah, 987 00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:19,200 Speaker 1: that's just that's really colorful writing. To yeah, um, really 988 00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,160 Speaker 1: colorful writing is actually what gives us our final theory, 989 00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,839 Speaker 1: which because we actually have one more, which is that 990 00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,480 Speaker 1: they were bloodthirst the animals who had developed a taste 991 00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:33,680 Speaker 1: for humans and or maybe we're just insane, because that's 992 00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,279 Speaker 1: what Patterson said. They acted pretty sane if you ask me. Yeah, 993 00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,239 Speaker 1: I don't think that they were. If they were, if 994 00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,400 Speaker 1: totally insane, they would have just been coming into the 995 00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:45,359 Speaker 1: camp constantly running through everything. And it said they were 996 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,960 Speaker 1: very stealthy and they were really really smart in how 997 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,880 Speaker 1: they went about stealing or getting their food. I shouldn't 998 00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:57,480 Speaker 1: say stealing getting their food. Um, so I don't think that. 999 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,879 Speaker 1: I don't think that the Tavo lions were insane. I mean, 1000 00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:04,360 Speaker 1: like I said, he made a career out of hunting 1001 00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:08,120 Speaker 1: other lions. After that. The the there's all these supposed 1002 00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:11,200 Speaker 1: man eaters that had killed a couple of people. I 1003 00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,120 Speaker 1: think that part of the problem though, is that all 1004 00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:18,080 Speaker 1: these supposed man hunters are We're expanding, and we're expanding 1005 00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:22,080 Speaker 1: into their natural territory. And what happens when humans and 1006 00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:26,560 Speaker 1: other animals collide, Well, usually the people lose it first 1007 00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:33,880 Speaker 1: because we're dumb and ignorant, but eventually just through sheer numbers. Yes, 1008 00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,800 Speaker 1: and so I think that that's why all of these 1009 00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:41,040 Speaker 1: these lions that are called man killers and man eaters 1010 00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:46,160 Speaker 1: and insane, they're they're actually not. They're just they're pushed 1011 00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:49,360 Speaker 1: to a breaking point and they have to survive because 1012 00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:54,600 Speaker 1: that's what their natural instinct is. So my personal opinion 1013 00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:58,439 Speaker 1: is that I think that these I kind of fall 1014 00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,200 Speaker 1: in line with the slave trade. I think that that 1015 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:06,000 Speaker 1: gave them an idea of humans, at least for these two, 1016 00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:08,880 Speaker 1: particularly in that area, as oh, this is a normal 1017 00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:12,640 Speaker 1: food source. Okay, the other ones I'm not so sure about. 1018 00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:17,120 Speaker 1: I like the cattle plague. Cattle plague it's good, I mean, 1019 00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:21,240 Speaker 1: not like I don't like it. I'm Facebook friends with 1020 00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:23,880 Speaker 1: the cattle player and they put up the best post ever. 1021 00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:27,560 Speaker 1: We go out to drink sometimes it's great. Cattle plague tails, 1022 00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:35,520 Speaker 1: the best jokes. Uh. Maybe some combination of all of them, 1023 00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:37,840 Speaker 1: even I hate to sound wishy washing here. The cattle plague, 1024 00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:39,840 Speaker 1: I think is a good one because you know, they 1025 00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:41,919 Speaker 1: have plenty of that play to snack on. They didn't 1026 00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,600 Speaker 1: need to actually go eat people. And then boom, all 1027 00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:46,880 Speaker 1: that goes and well you gotta go find food somewhere, 1028 00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:51,200 Speaker 1: and these guys come waltzing and conveniently driving right through 1029 00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:56,160 Speaker 1: the middle of their territory. Yeah, so what do you expect? Alright, 1030 00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,800 Speaker 1: there we go. So let's go ahead and give the 1031 00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:02,400 Speaker 1: important bits that I know people really like to hear 1032 00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:06,240 Speaker 1: us repeat every week. We have a website. Yeah, we 1033 00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:10,120 Speaker 1: have a website. The website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com, where, 1034 00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:13,280 Speaker 1: of course you can look at links that we will 1035 00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:16,320 Speaker 1: put up for some of our research, as well as 1036 00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,560 Speaker 1: listening to any of the past episodes. We We are 1037 00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:23,120 Speaker 1: on iTunes as well as a bunch of the other 1038 00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:26,480 Speaker 1: streaming services like Google Play and any other service that 1039 00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:29,440 Speaker 1: you might be able to use. If you're on iTunes, 1040 00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:31,480 Speaker 1: do you take the time to leave a comment and 1041 00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:34,440 Speaker 1: a rating? That's how other people find us if the 1042 00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:37,840 Speaker 1: streaming Yeah, yeah, preferbably a good one. If if you've 1043 00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,760 Speaker 1: got something that you don't agree with, write us an 1044 00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:42,720 Speaker 1: email so that we can have a discussion about it, 1045 00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:48,000 Speaker 1: because we can't talk through comments. They're they're one way conversation. Well, 1046 00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,080 Speaker 1: that email is something that I'll tell you in a minute. 1047 00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,000 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, if you're using any of the 1048 00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,600 Speaker 1: other streaming services and they allow you to comment in rating, 1049 00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,600 Speaker 1: do the same as we asked to do in in iTunes. 1050 00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,040 Speaker 1: That way, everybody who's using that service can find out 1051 01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:05,280 Speaker 1: about us. Um, if you want to write us an email, 1052 01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:07,680 Speaker 1: you can do that. The email address that Joe was 1053 01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,960 Speaker 1: prompting me to give you is Thinking Sideways Podcast at 1054 01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:16,200 Speaker 1: gmail dot com. We take story suggestions, we take feedback, 1055 01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:20,360 Speaker 1: we take general accolades. We will always respond to every email, 1056 01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,520 Speaker 1: though it may take us days to get to you, 1057 01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:25,760 Speaker 1: and that's not a reflection of you. That's our workload. 1058 01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,920 Speaker 1: But we respond to everybody. And by the way, if 1059 01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:31,280 Speaker 1: you're listening, say five years from now, we've got twenty 1060 01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,240 Speaker 1: billion listeners, that might not be the case anymore. Yeah yeah, 1061 01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:39,600 Speaker 1: but currently as of this recording, yes, um. Now, we 1062 01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:42,640 Speaker 1: are on social media, so we have a Facebook page 1063 01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:46,640 Speaker 1: and a Facebook group. So like the page, joined the group, 1064 01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:49,640 Speaker 1: there's always fun stuff going on there. We're on Twitter 1065 01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:54,840 Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways, Devon's always sending out weird Snapchat photos of 1066 01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:59,200 Speaker 1: herself because it's a thing. Now we have a subreddit, 1067 01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,920 Speaker 1: so there are conversations. If you're a riditor, that's a 1068 01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,240 Speaker 1: place for you to go as well. And last, but 1069 01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,560 Speaker 1: most importantly not least, for support of the show, we 1070 01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,040 Speaker 1: have a couple of different ways that you can do that. Um, 1071 01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:16,360 Speaker 1: you can buy merchandise, so shirts, stickers, anything like that, 1072 01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:20,560 Speaker 1: coffee mugs, those are available through Zazzle, which there's a 1073 01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,080 Speaker 1: link to that on the website and the right hand panel. 1074 01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:27,160 Speaker 1: If you want to contribute directly to the show, we 1075 01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:30,200 Speaker 1: have PayPal, so you can make a one time donation 1076 01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:33,520 Speaker 1: through PayPal of whatever you are able or comfortable with. 1077 01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:38,040 Speaker 1: If you want to go ahead and do a recurring donation, 1078 01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:41,760 Speaker 1: that's going to happen through Patreon. It's patreon dot com 1079 01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:46,160 Speaker 1: slash Thinking Sideways. Patreon is a system that are a 1080 01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,640 Speaker 1: service where you pledge how much you want to contribute, 1081 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,360 Speaker 1: and every time we put on a new episode, that's 1082 01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:54,400 Speaker 1: what you're going to contribute. So I say that so 1083 01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:56,120 Speaker 1: that if you say I'm gonna give you ten bucks 1084 01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:58,440 Speaker 1: and you put that into Patreon, that's gonna be ten 1085 01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:01,240 Speaker 1: bucks an episode, and we put out four episodes a 1086 01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:04,040 Speaker 1: month on a normal month, so that's gonna be You 1087 01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:06,200 Speaker 1: gotta do the math there. So whatever works for you 1088 01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:09,080 Speaker 1: and you're comfortable with, and by no means is any 1089 01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:13,000 Speaker 1: of this required. It is totally voluntary and we appreciate 1090 01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:17,160 Speaker 1: everybody who has and is currently donating the show. It's 1091 01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:21,439 Speaker 1: amazing how much easier that makes that for all of us. Really, yeah, 1092 01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:24,960 Speaker 1: it does cost a little bit, it does. Um, So 1093 01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,680 Speaker 1: that having been said, we're going to get out of 1094 01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,280 Speaker 1: here and look at Joe's crystal cat collection that he 1095 01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:34,200 Speaker 1: has bought with donations from Patreon. No, I'm just kidding. Um. 1096 01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,720 Speaker 1: We are, though, going to get out of here, and 1097 01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:39,040 Speaker 1: so we will talk to you guys all next week. 1098 01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:46,320 Speaker 1: Let's go see your menagerie, your glass menagerie. Let's go 1099 01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:53,480 Speaker 1: to the catacombs because it's perfect. Oh, I don't have anything, 1100 01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:00,440 Speaker 1: wh