WEBVTT - The Leonard Peltier Story 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:04.760 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:09.160 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:12.200 learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:19.840 production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:26.799 Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:27.520 name is Nolan. 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:30.479 They call me Ben. We are joined as always with 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:35.839 our super producer Andrew Treforce Howard. Most importantly, you are you. 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:39.440 You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.800 want you to know. In tonight's episode, we are exploring 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:47.840 a story of crime, politics, and possibly conspiracy. Building off 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:51.760 our earlier exploration into the American Indian Movement, we are 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:56.600 focusing on a single individual, a man who, as we record, 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:01.840 has been nearly half a century eight years imprisoned for 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:06.480 crimes that he maintains he did not commit. Now, before 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:10.160 we roll through this, guys, what's the most important thing 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:13.680 people need to remember about our US versus the American 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:15.360 Indian Movement episode? 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:20.720 Oh jeez, how do you boil that down? I don't know. 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:24.360 As far as I'm concerned, that reparations are due ward 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:27.400 two and they still haven't been paid in many cases. 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.360 Yeah, maybe just the formation of this country is the 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.160 direct result of taking land from peoples that lived here 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:42.240 before America was ever a thing, and it continues the country, 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:47.760 the company America continues to I would say, disenfranchise and 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:51.520 wrong peoples that they stole the land from initially agreed. 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:56.000 The United States has always been an experiment and it 0:01:56.080 --> 0:02:01.040 is the result of a conspiracy. There is nothing inaccurate 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.560 about that statement. This is the story of Leonard pell Tier. 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:17.560 Here are the facts. We mentioned this in our previous episode, 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:23.480 our exploration of the American Indian Movement. Leonard Helltier. You 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:25.919 can hear it called that on sixty minutes. You can 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:30.240 hear alternative pronunciations. Last name P. E. L t I 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:35.799 E R. Born on September twelfth, nineteen forty four, in 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:40.280 Grand Forks, North Dakota, and who he was part of 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:42.440 a really big family. 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:44.519 Unbelievably big. 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:50.200 Indeed, he was the eleventh of thirteen children. 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:52.600 At least it wasn't the middle child. That would have 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:54.519 been rough with that many similss. 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.800 Kind of he's like the end of the middle children, 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.400 but he's not the last, and he's not the eldest. 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.120 One could argue maybe not the worst position, because if 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:06.040 you're eleventh or thirteenth, you haven't been totally forgotten by 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:06.960 mom and dad yet. 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.760 But you're also like kind of old news. So it's 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:11.200 sort of a kind of the sweet spot maybe. 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:13.959 But I don't know my ancestors who at some point 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:18.200 started just naming the kids based on their birth order. 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.320 I have for many years a great aunt nine. 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:23.320 Nice. 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.160 Wow, you know what, I think we should normalize naming 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.480 children after prime numbers. I think that's a good idea. 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:31.080 I like the way numbers sound. 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:31.400 Six. 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:33.799 There's a character named six, I believe, what was it, 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:34.720 ozark AnyWho. 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:36.120 I think there's a nice ring to it. 0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:38.800 But his parents divorced when he was four years old, 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:43.520 and after this, he and another sibling sister unclear as 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:46.440 to which number of sibling she was, were sent to 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:51.280 the Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation of the Turtle Mountain Chippewa 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.960 tribe near Belcourt, North Dakota, in order to live with 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.000 their paternal grandparents. 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:02.600 Yeah, and his father would later move back to his 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.680 own parents area. The letter is the opposite of a 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:12.680 quote unquote silverspoon kid. You know, like far too many 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.840 children in the native community. He grew up amid rank 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:21.240 poverty and active discrimination. And we mentioned this in our 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:26.039 previous exploration, but we didn't get into the specifics. At 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.960 the age of nine, he was sent to a boarding 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:36.480 school that function to assimilate Native children, the Wapaton School 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:41.160 in North Dakota, and he was, like so many innocent 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:45.360 children there and in Canada and in Australia, if we're 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:49.200 being honest, he was subjected to various forms of emotional 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.680 and physical abuse. I would also say he was subjected 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:58.000 to cultural abuse because he was being forced to erase 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:02.120 his own and sel estual culture. And there's not really 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:07.800 in English a word for that kind of brutality visited 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:11.200 on people, So I would go with cultural abuse or 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:12.240 cultural erasure. 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:14.680 I rasure, Yeah, No, I mean it reminds me of like, 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:16.800 you know, the Germans are so good with having words 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:20.400 describe like kind of complex emotions or scenarios, like the 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.599 word for Holocaust guilt, which I think I've talked about before. 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:26.000 But no, but I think this concept deserves a word. 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:28.400 But I think he did the next best thing, Ben, 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.440 You're absolutely right, cultural erasure or abuse. 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:36.200 Yeah, So, as a little little child he went through 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:40.040 that whole scenario. Then he was sent to another one 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.840 of these schools, right, this time in South Dakota the 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:47.400 Flandreaux or f L A N d r. Eau Indian School, 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.560 and then he ended up dropping out around the ninth 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.680 grade and headed back to where his dad was in 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:53.400 Turtle Mountain. 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:59.520 And while he is at Turtle Mountain, he witnesses first 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:04.000 hand the policy we're talking about earlier, the policy of termination. 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:11.720 Termination at this point was not necessarily the media genocide 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:17.280 practiced by the Nazi Party, but it did include siege mentality, 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:24.440 withdrawing federal assistance, including food assistance, from Native Americans living 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:29.520 on these reservations. It was at the very best, a 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:35.400 ham fisted attempt to make people, you know, eat the 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:41.240 apple pie right, drink the George Washington mead, assimilate and 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.120 stop speaking their own languages. 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.320 And this is in the late nineteen fifties, I believe, 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:49.200 around the time when this is occurring. 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:52.120 And history is far closer than it looks in the 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:56.719 rear view mirror. It was at worst, very much like 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:01.200 putting a community under siege, like the old medieval warfare 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:04.599 style thing. You surround a castle and you try to 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:07.360 starve it, and that's what they were doing. And for 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:13.800 anyone who would ignore the various broken covenants of the 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:20.160 US government and agree to assimilate. They were given promises 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:25.200 of jobs and guaranteed housing in urban areas. 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:25.760 Spoiler. 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.480 I mean, you know, it seems like almost one of 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.840 the cruelest cuts of the whole relationship between the United 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:37.200 States government and Indigenous people is the continual stringing along, 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:41.200 you know, the continual promises and the continual kind of 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.480 moving of goalposts. It's just, I don't know, it's just 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.520 a very difficult way to live without any kind of 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:49.480 assurance that you are going to be made a whole 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:50.680 or that you want to be taken care of. 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.040 And just so I get those dates right really quick, guys, 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:56.720 it is in the late nineteen fifties when this is 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.000 when Leonard is experiencing this. But that was a policy 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.400 either went from nineteen fifty three all I think to 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:03.520 nineteen sixty eight. 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:11.160 Yes, officially, I would argue. I would argue the BIA 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:17.200 has continued very similar things. Well, as we'll discuss with cointelpro. 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.160 That's the Bureau of Indian Affairs. 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:20.600 That's the Eurea of Indian Affairs, right. 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:25.200 So, with those promises of jobs and housing from the 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.480 US government, folks arrived in many of these cities, and 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.880 like we mentioned, were kind of left holding the bag. 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:32.679 You know, we're not. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:38.640 Given the opportunities and assistance that they were promised. This 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.760 is going to become an ongoing theme. So as a 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:46.239 result of said broken promises, many of them became unhoused 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.080 in the parts of the country where they had no 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:50.760 support systems. 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:56.280 Right, yes, and we're further victimized by again I use 0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:01.760 the word rank not loosely. It is unclean discrimination. You know, 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:06.079 they were calling people engine I n jun and things 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.920 like that. It was very bad and it was not 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:13.120 what Uncle Sam promised them. And so in nineteen sixty five, 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.560 Leonard relocates to Seattle, and you know, he got there 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:23.160 way before Microsoft did, and he went because this is 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:28.240 the historic homeland of the Nez Pierce. And while there, 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.800 Leonard does several amazing things. He takes some odd jobs 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:37.760 in construction, He works as a welder. He eventually becomes 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:42.319 the part owner of an autobody shop. And here I 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.959 would argue, no matter whatever, nine to five kind of 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:50.240 job the guy has, he finds his true vocation, which 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.280 is activism, which is supporting the community, and so he 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:59.120 becomes evolved in different aspects of the Native American rights movement, 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:03.280 and he he has this greater goal in mind. Right, 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:08.240 organizations can be ephemeral, they can have ven diagrams, you know, 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:13.720 not everybody affiliated with something like the United Indians of 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.840 All Tribes, not everyone there as a member of the 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:21.800 American Indian movement, but they are gathered toward common cause. 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:26.560 And so here Leonard does really awesome stuff. He finds 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:31.520 people who have been you know, promised jobs by the 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:35.400 termination policy and then been robbed of those jobs. Or 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.240 he finds people who have been caught up in the 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:43.120 incarceration system and then let out just sort of counting 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:47.080 the days before they get arrested again. And he helps them, 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.680 and he says, come get a job with me, come 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:53.080 live here at the autobody shop. We can help you out. 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:56.439 And if someone has a car in need of repair 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:59.600 and they can't afford it, he helps them out there too. 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:05.160 Yeah, this is a really important thing here. Just when 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:08.480 I'm thinking about it, I'm imagining all the people who 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:13.240 read about or see, you know, on the news or 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.600 something some kind of movement that's occurring, like this Native 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:18.920 American rights movement. Right there are people who see it 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:20.320 and then want to get involved. But then there are 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.200 also people like Leonard, like his family, like all of 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.200 the people that were living in these various reservations that 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:28.960 in that land that was just taken again by the 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:33.840 United States. To actually experience that, to go through that, 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:38.480 to watch yourself, your family, your friends, not have any 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:41.760 of the things like to be lied to, let's say, 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:43.640 to your face, and then to go through all the 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.720 hardships that that entails. Somebody who has been through that 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:53.120 experience is ready to fully fight back against whatever system 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:57.440 wronged them, whatever individuals, whatever group, whatever that thing is 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.920 that both took from them and then wrong them. I 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.160 just think that's a really important thing, Like, oh, yeah, 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:05.520 that mean fire that would be in your mind. I 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.720 don't think would get crushed out by anything. 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.040 Yeah, And not to be like mega mega like America 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.280 sucks or whatever, but it does feel like this is 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:19.760 sort of typical behavior, this mo of like, whatever you've 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:21.760 got going on isn't as important as what we've got 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.920 going on, and what we want and what we need 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:28.080 completely supersedes any of your concerns, and. 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.520 We are going to quote unquote make it right. What 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:30.920 we did. 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.440 We acknowledge somewhat that we shouldn't have taken your land. 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:35.280 Maybe don't even go so far as they shouldn't have, 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.320 but we're going to give you something in return and 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:43.000 then just not get it just completely, you know, leave 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:46.160 people hanging after being the one that wronged them in 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.520 the first place. Now you're the one who's supposed to 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.760 mitigate that wronging. And I mean, it's it seems like 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:56.120 a conflict of interest, is it to the largest possible degree? 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:56.560 What? 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.800 No way, But yes, you're absolutely right, and I agree 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.600 with you. Know, there's much more to the story of 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.800 the body Shop. Like we were saying earlier, it did 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:11.320 become a halfway house for people who had been discharged 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.920 from incarceration on a federal or local level or a 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:20.560 state level from the Native community. Eventually, just like the 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:26.599 original attempt to occupy Alcatraz shout out to Ridiculous History episodes, 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:31.360 eventually the autobody Shop did have to shut down. Yet 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:37.160 I would argue this showed Leonard the way, This showed 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.679 him that change is possible. And during this time he 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:48.319 also becomes intensely involved with land reclamation issues, with alcohol counseling, 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:53.960 and with initiatives to preserve native land in Seattle during 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.720 the time when real estate is booming. I like check 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.160 out if you want to learn more about this bick 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:05.000 out the takeover of Fort Lawton on March eighth, nineteen seventy. 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:09.480 At this point we mentioned the earlier initiative. You can 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:13.559 learn more about it and occupy ALCATRAZM ridiculous history. Leonard 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:17.800 was part of the United Indians of All Tribes group 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:23.560 that scaled the fences around Fort Lawton, and Fort Lawton 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:29.280 is contiguous with the Greater Seattle area. The fort was 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:33.800 going to be decommissioned. The local horse traders wanted it 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:38.400 to be a park, like a local park, and they 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:44.280 were not listening to peaceful means of negotiation from the 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:48.080 native populations, so they got the fence jumped. And when 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.960 these guys jumped the fence, they are confronted with flamethrowers 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:57.600 and machine guns, and then they peacefully surrender and the 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:01.800 law enforcement beats the snot out of them, arrest them, 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.240 and then when they take them to their cells to 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.680 this stockade, they beat the snot out of them again. 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:13.760 Leonard eventually is released, but he refuses to leave the 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:17.840 property until every other protester is also set free because 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.120 they add no real charges to keep these people on. 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.320 Well that's because well, I mean, just to give a 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:29.080 little bit more detail maybe around what led to them 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.320 believing that they were righteous in jumping the fence. The 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:36.040 decommissioned fort was very similar to what had happened with Alcatraz, 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.480 where it was no longer being used as a federal penitentiary. 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:40.160 Or no longer being used. 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.720 Therefore, there was a law in the books I believe, 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:46.080 I can't remember the exact name that supposedly would grant 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:50.080 Native people the ability to petition to have those lands 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:53.440 returned to them for use as cultural centers or as 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:54.840 heritage centers or what have you. 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:59.400 And that's the Fort Laramie Treaty of eighteen sixty eight, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:05.520 which allows Native American populations to appropriate quote surplus federal land. 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:06.480 There you go. 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:11.560 So what they were doing was technically legal, and yet 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.040 they were met with a show of force. 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.680 It's so weird when we're thinking about the legality of 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:20.960 everything we're going to be talking about this episode, it 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:24.640 makes your headsp well, yeah, because it really is. It's 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:29.440 an authority from a country that officially, on paper runs 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.640 the land everybody is on except for these little places 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.760 that they've granted to the original peoples that lived there, 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:36.800 right where. 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:41.640 The laws, those covenants yet exactly exactly. 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.320 It's when you're thinking about what is against the law 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.440 or not against the law, or okay for a group 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.000 of protesters to do or not okay for them to do, 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.240 it gets so muddied. 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.520 Shifts depending on who's in charge and who it benefits. 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.680 You know, I really, I mean, I would consider myself 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:02.880 for the most part of law abiding citizen, but stuff 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:04.960 like this really does kind of call into question the 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.800 whole nature of what is legal and what is right 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.480 now and the relationship between those things. 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:14.640 And here we find common cause with every long time listener, 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:19.000 every fellow conspiracy realist tuning in to stuff they don't 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:23.800 want you to know. Ideologies may differ, but a promise 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.840 broken is a promise broken. And if we exercise empathy, 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:33.760 we can absolutely understand the objective track record of various 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:38.960 treaties being proposed and then being broken, and then being 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:43.199 proposed and then being broken, and then being proposed and 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:48.880 proposed and then being broken and then being proposed and 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:50.879 then being broken. I yield my time. 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:55.919 It reminds me a lot of wartime reporting, and it 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.720 depends so much on who's telling you the story right 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.919 where you're gathering information from or if you hear a 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:06.840 story about Leonard Peltier and any of these movements. Whoever's 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:10.080 telling you the story specifically in that time period is 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.879 going to shape a lot of how you view this, 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.560 this thing, all of these events that we're talking about. 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:17.520 So you just I mean, I know, we have to 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.359 we talk about keeping that in mind at all times 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.440 when we're exploring the world, right, but just in this 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.639 case in particular, especially if you are listening to some 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.200 of the things the FBI has said about Leonard and 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:32.639 all of the various things that Leonard got up to, 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.560 you're going to have a whole different picture. 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:41.920 So it's nineteen seventy two and Leonard joins the American 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:45.440 Indian Movement at the behest of a guy named Dennis Banks, 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:50.240 and he joins this to further what he calls the 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.399 resistance that he started when he was nine years old 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:58.280 at that Indian school abusing those kids, and he participates 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:03.560 in something called the Trail Broken Treaties March again, peaceful 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.920 protest should be part of the American fabric. He gets 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.680 jammed up. I'm gonna be honest with you. He spent 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:16.160 most of the Occupy Alcatraz movement in a jail in Wisconsin, 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:20.080 where he was charged with attempted murder related to another 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:25.440 protest in Washington, DC. He claimed he had been set 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:29.240 up by the police, and that claim turned out to 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:34.120 be true. They were stitching them up. As we've mentioned earlier, 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:39.160 it was co intelpro in full wingspan. He makes bail 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:41.360 that wingspan references for you. 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:45.840 Nolo before we find out, right before he gets acquitted 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:48.360 all that stuff, the next thing happens. 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:53.800 Right, Yeah, he makes bail in nineteen seventy three spring April, 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.920 and he joins a protest in Milwaukee, and then he 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:01.919 heads over to Wounded Knee with people he's met before 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:04.680 and in the course of that protest movement. 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:08.200 This is the site of the Battle of Wounded Kney. 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:13.320 Yes, well, loosely, and he hopes to he and the 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:17.920 group he's with hope to deliver supplies as the siege 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:21.520 on Wounded Kney draws to a close. And they also 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:25.399 at this point, just like in Occupy Alcatraz, they also 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.040 know there are rival factions. There are a lot of 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.040 cooks there are a lot of egos, right, so they 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.159 want to calm that down and they want everyone to 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:40.560 remember the larger mission. But by this time, by April 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:45.919 of nineteen seventy three, the FEDS consider Leonard a fugitive 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:50.160 and he is accused of unlawful flight to avoid that 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:54.320 attempted murder charge. We'll give you the high level stuff 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.440 here before we go to the atbreak. Leonard is eventually 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.560 convicted of murdering two FBI agents. We will give you 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:05.639 their names as we dive in. Aside from a brief 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:10.560 escape in nineteen seventy nine, and he's convicted in nineteen 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:16.560 seventy seven. He's been incarcerated ever since. Serious questions about 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:20.800 the legality of the trial remain, and as we record 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:25.840 this evening, he is alive. His supporters consider him the 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:33.119 longest incarcerated political prisoner in United States history. So decades later, 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:38.920 we are joining many people asking the question that has 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:46.719 haunted thousands since Leonard's conviction. Is this man guilty of 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:49.640 the crimes he was convicted for, or has the US 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:54.160 government yet again in prison demand for crimes he did 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:54.800 not commit. 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:56.080 Let's take a. 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:58.080 Quick break and hear a word from our sponsor and 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:01.720 then get into the details. 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:11.920 Here's where it gets crazy. It really like the crimes, 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:16.719 whether or not he's guilty, it depends upon whom you ask. Officially, 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:23.520 the US government at every single, again practicing level, considers 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:27.840 Leonard a convicted murderer. But here's the thing. The guy 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:34.040 has always maintained his innocence and numerous supporters, including people 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:37.560 who were originally part of the prosecution on his case, 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:41.320 they agree. 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:44.720 Right, And to really understand the level of controversy surrounding 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:49.159 this whole case, as well as the accusations of conspiracy, 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:51.920 we have to first take a look at the events 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:56.440 that led up to these alleged crimes. So we've talked 0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:58.520 about this a little bit before, but let's kind of 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:01.919 get into some of the minutias with the timeline of 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:04.920 the shootout and the murders that you mentioned, Ben. Back 0:23:04.920 --> 0:23:08.719 in the mid nineteen seventies, when Peltier and a handful 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:11.919 of other AIM members went to the Pine Ridge Indian 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:15.880 Reservation in South Dakota in the hopes of assisting the 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:21.600 Oglala Lakota in helping to plan some community activities, things 0:23:21.600 --> 0:23:26.080 like religious ceremonies and programs that would help ensure their 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:31.439 self sufficiency and also to help organize some teams that 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:36.360 could offer them security, you know, because they frankly did 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:40.600 not feel particularly safe from you know, the US government. 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:42.439 I mean, I want to backtrek really quickly too. I 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:45.760 mentioned the you mentioned Ben that he went to Wounded Knee, 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:47.320 and I asked that was the site of the Battle 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:49.600 of Wounded Kni. I just wanted to backtrack and say, 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.520 it's a little bit more like a massacre at Wounded Kny. 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:55.119 That is what it is referred to often as, because 0:23:55.160 --> 0:23:58.240 it was essentially just an absolute slaughter of Native people, 0:23:58.320 --> 0:24:00.720 you know, by US soldiers. So the notion of needing 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:04.760 security to literally protect themselves from those that might do 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:07.600 them harm from outside their community absolutely makes sense as 0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:08.520 precedent for it. 0:24:09.080 --> 0:24:12.080 Yes, agreed, and think about the panthers, you know, co 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:17.240 intel again is flapping its wings and sold do dads. 0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:22.680 It is attempting to infiltrate right, and it is also, 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:29.440 I would argue, under the auspice of that sith Lord Hoover, 0:24:30.000 --> 0:24:36.640 it is attempting to maybe generate conflict when conflict does 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.760 not need to exist. On June twenty fifth, nineteen seventy five, 0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:46.800 two FBI special agents, Ronald Arthur Williams and Jack Ross Kohler. 0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:52.680 They question one of Leonard's associates, a guy named Norman Charles, 0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:55.920 and when they talk to him, you know, and they say, hey, 0:24:56.400 --> 0:25:01.040 tensions are high. There's a guy who has been accused 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:06.680 of assaulting to local ranch workers. We think he may 0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:11.240 have stolen some cowboy boots. His name's Jimmy Eagle. Do 0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:14.760 you know Jimmy Eagle. We think he drives a red 0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:19.280 pickup truck, which will be important later. And so on 0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:23.680 the next day, on June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy five, 0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:29.440 these agents return to the Pine Bridge Reservation and they 0:25:29.440 --> 0:25:32.520 go to a place called Jumping Bull Ranch. They are 0:25:32.560 --> 0:25:37.800 searching for this guy, Jimmy Eagle. Sometime after eleven am, 0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:41.760 both agents who are by the way in plane clothing. 0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:46.040 They are in separate on marked cars. They start following 0:25:46.760 --> 0:25:52.440 something we mentioned previously, a Chevy suburban correll occupied by 0:25:53.119 --> 0:25:57.680