1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: Frye and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. I don't think it's 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: any surprise that the eponymous food series has become one 5 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: of my favorite things to do. We get a lot 6 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: of emails from listeners who also have found it to 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: be a favorite. It's super fun. Who doesn't want to 8 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: talk about food, delicious or otherwise. But last time we 9 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: did an all chocolate addition. This time I thought it 10 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: might be fun if we only talk about beverages, which, 11 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: just to set it up, we're doing kind of an assortment. 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: So one is a mocktail, technically one is a cocktail, 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: and one is a brand person's name attached to it. 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: So we're getting a little bit of a spread of options. 15 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: And there are some surprises in here for me personally. Yeah, 16 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 1: And it just made me very, very nostalgic about various 17 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: things I have consumed and enjoyed over the years, So 18 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: hopefully it will do the same for you. And then 19 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: I feel like this is we're setting up for a 20 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: very lively Friday conversation. Yeah, I think so. We'll start 21 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: with an absolute classic and one of the earliest mocktails, 22 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: and that's the Shirley Temple. So probably not a surprise 23 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: who it's named for. Child star Shirley Temple. And if 24 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: you don't know who that is, Shirley Temple was a 25 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: leading child star in the nineteen thirties and in the 26 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: US as the country was completely engulfed in the Great 27 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: Depression that followed the nineteen twenty nine stock market crash, 28 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: she really became kind of an antidote for the failing 29 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: morale of the country. Even President Franklin D. Roosevelt said, quote, 30 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: as long as our country has Shirley Temple, we'll be 31 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: all right. Because she was adoor. She was a very 32 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: good performer from the time she was just tiny. She 33 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: charmed people on screen so much charm. Shirley was born 34 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,679 Speaker 1: on April twenty third, nineteen twenty eight to George and 35 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: Gertrude Temple. She was their third child and their only daughter. 36 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: At the age of three, she was enrolled in a 37 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: dance school. Sometimes you'll see that reported as like two 38 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: and a half, and that is where she was spotted 39 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: by a casting director for educational pictures and her film 40 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: career began. We're not going to get into all of 41 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: that film career here. That is its own whole thing, 42 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: but I will say if you go back and watch 43 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: some of Temple's earliest films, there's some pretty cringey stuff 44 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: in there. There was often a trend in films and 45 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: particularly educational pictures, to show children playing adults as sort 46 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: of a spoof, which can be funny in theory, but 47 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: often these were kind of weird situations to put children in. 48 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: For example, in her first movie, War Babies, she played 49 00:02:55,400 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: a dancer who entertained soldiers. There's some some sexual overtones 50 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: to it. That's pretty weird. There's a romance storyline. This 51 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: is reported as when she received her first kiss, So 52 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: it's like there's it's icky. Some people don't find it icky. 53 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 1: A lot of people do. There are others like this film. 54 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: They were all under an umbrella of baby burlesques, and 55 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 1: per Temple's own autobiography, the kids were treated very poorly 56 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: and exploited in addition to whatever issues you may or 57 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: may not have with the subject matter, But to the 58 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: film going audience, this was all kind of cute and 59 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: wholesome at the time, and Temple's image and success were 60 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: based entirely around that idea of innocent sweetness that was 61 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: used to market them. There are three different places that 62 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: have been the alleged originators of the drink that was 63 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: named for this child actor. The most frequently cited is 64 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: Chasin's in Hollywood. That's an eatery that opened in nineteen 65 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: thirty six. The Royal Hawaiian Hotel on Awaho has also 66 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: touted the drink as its own invention over the years, 67 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: and yet another version of the story states that it 68 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: was created at the Hollywood Brown Derby, which has been 69 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: the focus on the show other Food. Despite the variety 70 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: of locations that this may have happened in, the basic 71 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: origin story for the drink is almost always the same. Sureley, 72 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: who at this point was a successful actor, was out 73 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: with her parents. Both of them were drinking old fashions. 74 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: Surely wanted one because of the cherry garnish. Here we'll 75 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: have a sidebar on the pronunciation of Maraschino, which is 76 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: how we say it in the US, versus Maraschino, which 77 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: is how it really is said in Italy. Here is 78 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: a distinguisher. I have heard people use, I don't know 79 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: if this is universal. They tend to use Maraschino for 80 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: the hyper sweet, kind of bright translucent ones that go 81 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: into things like Shirley Temple's Here Now, and Maraschino for 82 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: the darker, deeper flavored ones that go into actual cocktails. 83 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a convention a lot of 84 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: people use. I have heard it in a few different places, though, 85 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: But anyway, Sureley wanted a drink because of this cute garnish, 86 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: but of course she could not have an old fashioned, 87 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: so someone on the staff made up an alcohol free 88 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: drink that she could have and garnished it with a 89 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: Maraschino cherry. Voila, the Shirley Temple is born. And after that, 90 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: restaurants in Hollywood started offering this as a beverage for 91 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: younger diners to enjoy, and it's spread very quickly from there, 92 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: and adults who didn't drink alcohol also started to order 93 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: it because it's delicious. The actual ingredients are kind of variable, though, 94 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: depending on what recipe you look at or where you 95 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: order it. There's usually grenadine and then either a lemon 96 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: lime soda or ginger ale on top. Some versions combine 97 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: those sodas, also orange juice, maybe a little lime juice, 98 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: but there's always that Maraschino cherry to garnish it. But Shirley, 99 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: who became Shirley Temple Black when she married her second 100 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: husban in nineteen fifty, appears to have not been a 101 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: huge fan of the drink, especially as time war on. 102 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty eight, a company called Soda Pop Kids 103 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: in Encino, California, brought a bottled version of the Shirley 104 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: Temple to market under the brand name Shirley t with 105 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: the tagline the Shirley Temple Soft Drink. But Temple Black 106 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: fought it aggressively through legal channels, saying that it diluted 107 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: her name's commercial value and invaded her privacy. In a 108 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: quote given to press in autumn of nineteen eighty eight, 109 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: she said, quote, I will fight it like a tigris. 110 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: All a celebrity has is their name. She noted in 111 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: another interview, quote, I have always been very cautious all 112 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,799 Speaker 1: of my life to make sure any items are licensed. 113 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: My lawyer will go after anyone who is using my 114 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: name on a product without my permission. And she also 115 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: stated that she thought most Shirley Temple drinks were just 116 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: too sweet and she didn't even really like it, and 117 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: she felt like, even though so this drink contained no alcohol, 118 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: it still kind of felt like marketing a cocktail to children, 119 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: and she never liked that about it either. The legal 120 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: battle over bottled Shirley Temple soda hinged on whether the 121 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: name had become a generic term or not. Bradley Wideman, 122 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: the owner of Soda Pop Kids, and his counsel, argued 123 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: that people had been able to walk into restaurants and 124 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: order a Shirley Temple for fifty years at that point, 125 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: so obviously it was a generic term. But Temple Black's attorney, 126 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: Joseph M. Malcolm, made the case that it did not 127 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: matter how long people had been ordering Shirley Temples and restaurants. 128 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy one, a law had been passed in 129 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: California making it illegal to use a person's likeness or 130 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: name for commercial purposes without their consent. Malcolm said in 131 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: an interview with the Los Angeles Times, quote, it's one 132 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: thing to go into a bar and order a Shirley 133 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: Temple drink, or go into a restaurant and get a 134 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: Clint Eastwood sandwich. It's another thing to sell a soft 135 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: drink as the Shirley Temple Soft drink or a sandwich 136 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: as the Clint Eastwood Sandwich. In late October of nineteen 137 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: eighty eight, Temple Black was able to stop the use 138 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: of her name associated with the sale of Shirley Tea temporarily. 139 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: The court order stated that the company could sell existing 140 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: inventory of the product, but it had to be relabeled 141 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: to exclude her name. It appears that the company never 142 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: got back to making it after the lawsuit. Today, you 143 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: can occasionally find empty bottles with the Shirley Tea label 144 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: on them on eBay with the Shirley Temple Soft Drink tag. 145 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: Temple Black died in twenty fourteen, and today you can 146 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: easily purchase drinks with the Shirley Temple name on them 147 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 1: in both mocktail and alcoholic varieties. Okay, so it's time 148 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: for one that I actually wanted to do for a 149 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: long time as its own episode, and I kept backing 150 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 1: away from it. But this seems like the right place 151 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: to do it. Holy cow, everyone has been talking about 152 00:08:55,520 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: negronies in the last year, yes, particularly after how Dragon's 153 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: actor Emma Darcy said the Negronie spalliado was their drink 154 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: of choice in a viral TikTok from HBO's account with 155 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: fellow House of Dragon star Olivia Cook. Okay, everybody knows 156 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: this by now, but I'm just going to go over it. 157 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: And the Gronie Spiriato has prosecco in it instead of gin, 158 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: and spalliato means mistake in Italian, so it's literally a 159 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: mistake in the gronie. Also just the delivery, Oh yes, 160 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: although it has led I know to people ordering it 161 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: in a weird way. I'm not criticizing anyway. Whatever you do, 162 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: it's fine. But if you say to a bartender, I 163 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: want a Negronie balliado, you don't have to say with prosecco. 164 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: When they say that. In that TikTok, they're explaining what 165 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,359 Speaker 1: it is, not saying it's this, and you add this additionally, 166 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: with prosecco, you know that it's vaded prosecco. Yeah. So 167 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: where did the original cocktail, which usually consists of equal 168 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: parts come Parise Vermuth and gin get its name. Before 169 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 1: we talk about the person it's named for, we have 170 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: to talk about its predecessor drink, the Americano. We do 171 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: not mean a Cafe Americano. That is a different thing. 172 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: This is a drink that incorporates on a morrow that's 173 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: a bitter herb liqueur, specifically campari. For the Americano, it's 174 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: combined with sweet vermouth, which is a fortified wine that 175 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: also has herbs, spices and bark flavoring, and then that's 176 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: topped off with club soda. It's a pretty light drink 177 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: in terms of alcohol by volume. Yeah, the club soda 178 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: makes it pretty refreshing. But the Americano was based on 179 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: a drink called the Milano Tourno. Maybe Milano is a 180 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: reference to Milan, the origin city of Campari, and Torino 181 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: is a reference to Turin, where vermut Titurini comes from. 182 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: This drink was invented by Gaspar Campari in the eighteen 183 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: sixties at Cafe Camparino in Milan, and it was, according 184 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: to legend, popular with American tourists that they preferred it 185 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: diluted with a bit of club soda, thus the name Americano. 186 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: But there's debate, however, about whether or not Italians also 187 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: already drank it on occasion with a soda topper. According 188 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: to author and drink's historian David Wondrich, who knows all 189 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: of the things about the history of drinks, the Americano 190 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: and Milano Torino are better described as kind of existing 191 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: in tandem, that the Americano being a generic version, in 192 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: the Milano Torino being a variation. An Americano, according to 193 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: his information, is not named for the version with the 194 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: diluted club soda, but for the use of bidders with vermouth, 195 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: which was considered an American practice. So what we can 196 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 1: say with certainty is that in the nineteen teens the 197 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: Americano was a very popular drink in Italy, both with 198 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: people who lived in Italy and people who visit it. 199 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: Now we get to Negroni, the man, or more accurately Negronese, 200 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: because there are two different origin stories. We're going to 201 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: talk about both of those after a sponsor break. Okay, 202 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: before the break, we said we would talk about the 203 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: two men who are both discussed as possibly being the 204 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: man for whom the Negroni is named. So first, Camillo 205 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: Luigi Manfredro Maria Negroni was born on May twenty fifth, 206 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty eight, in Florence, Italy. His father was Count 207 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: Enrico Negroni, and his mother was Ada Savage Landor. His 208 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: father died when he was ten years old, and when 209 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: he was sixteen, Camillo went to a military academy. He also, 210 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 1: during this time subtly changed the spelling of his name. 211 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: Instead of two ms in Camillo, he changed it to one. 212 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: We do not have a clear reason why his mother, 213 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: though remarried and Camillo did not get along with the 214 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: second husband at all, and it is that conflict which 215 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: is said to have inspired him to leave home and travel, 216 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: and he headed to the United States. For a long time, 217 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: the only real account of Camillo Negroni came from a 218 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: wonderful and somewhat fanciful tale that appeared in North American 219 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: newspapers in nineteen twenty eight. This is the biography slash Travelog, 220 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: written by a journalist named Bob Davis who worked for 221 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: the New York Sun. Have a number of questions about it. 222 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: There may or may not be answers, but it's pretty fun. So. 223 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: Davis said that he encountered Negroni after he had such 224 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 1: a hard time communicating with his cab driver while visiting 225 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: Italy that he had just kind of gestured to the 226 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: man to simply drive and hope that he would figure 227 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: out where to go or that he would see something 228 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: of interest. And when he saw a man on a 229 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: horse with a Mexican saddle and looking entirely like a 230 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: wild West cowboy, he had the driver stop and he 231 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: asked if demand spoke English, and he got the reply, 232 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: your tutin' I do ombre, although allegedly with an Italian act, 233 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: which I dared not try because I will sound like 234 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: a bad video game. I don't I that just this 235 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: is part of my questions. That just seems like an 236 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: impossible sentence to say with an Italian accent. Like I said, 237 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: I dare not. But the two men, according to this story, 238 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: began talking and the Gronie told Davis, quote, you are 239 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: the first stranger in these parts who ever tumbled to 240 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: my outfit. He also told the American tourists that he 241 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: could tell the driver to follow him over a ridge 242 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: that he was pointing to, and that once they got there, 243 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: he could show him where to get something to eat 244 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: and drink. So over these refreshments, according to what Davis wrote, 245 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: the count told his life story quote, I went out 246 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: to the Rockies in the late eighties and fell in 247 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: love with the country. I learned enough about stud Qino 248 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: and Pharaoh to get broke and stay that way. Punching 249 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: horses suited me to death, and I went adventuring over 250 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: the ranges. And the Gronie talked about how he the road, 251 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: heard around North America, spent time in Alberta, Canada, and 252 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: even taught a horse to stick around without hitching. He 253 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: also shared a story about when he was delivering beef 254 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: from one ranch to another and met a cowboy along 255 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: the way who bad mouthed the man who was supposed 256 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: to receive the order. That man's name was Walter Gordon Cumming. 257 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: The two of them got drunk together, and it turned 258 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: out the cowboy talking trash about coming was actually Walter 259 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: Gordon Coming. And then after this whole joke was exposed, 260 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: Coming and Negrony became very good friends. Coming gifted the 261 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: count with the Mexican saddle that Davis had noticed from 262 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: the taxi while he was lost. It also turned out 263 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: that as Nigroni told Davis about his gambling exploits, Davis 264 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: started to recognize some of the stories and realized that 265 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: he had actually heard of Nigrony before, and had even 266 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: gone to a party that Nigrony had thrown when the 267 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: Count was flushed with winnings when he was in North America. 268 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: By the way, he eventually lost all of that money 269 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: again according to the story. For a long time, this 270 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: very fanciful write up was really consistent of the only 271 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: pieces of information that we in North America had about 272 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: this Count ne Groni's personality up to when the cocktail emerges, 273 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: and it establishes that this person does seem to exist. 274 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: This doesn't mention the cocktail at all, although the whole 275 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: thing is rather fantastical. This and so many aspects of 276 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: this reading to me like something that the writer made up. Yes, 277 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: So in recent years, as more books about Negroney history 278 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: have been published, we've gotten more detail about this cowboy count. 279 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: He got married on his thirtieth birthday to a woman 280 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: named Antoinette's worka from Prague. He found out he had 281 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: a son from a romance. In his youth. He designed 282 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: gardens probably, and he lived a lot of life and 283 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: died at the age of sixty six. And now we're 284 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: gonna step sideway and talk about the other Negroni who 285 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: maybe the reason the cocktail got its name. This is 286 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: a briefer story, probably because it involves less fanciful things. 287 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: The second Negroni namesake is General Pascal Olivier, Count de Negroni. 288 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: He was born on April fourth, eighteen twenty nine, in 289 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: San Colombano a l'ambro in Italy's Lombardi region. This Count 290 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: Negroni was a member of the French army who served 291 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: starting when he was eighteen and ending forty four years 292 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: later at the age of sixty two. During this time, 293 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 1: this Negroni led a pivotal charge in the Franco Prussian 294 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: War of eighteen seventy and earned the Officer's Cross of 295 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: the Imperial Legion of Honor. He was captured just weeks 296 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: later and spent six months as a prisoner of war, 297 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: but after that he continued his rise through the ranks 298 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: and became a general and a commander of the Legion 299 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: of Honor. But Negroni, the general, died in nineteen thirteen 300 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: at the age of eighty four, and this causes a 301 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: little problem with the ti timeline of the invention of 302 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: the eponymous cocktail, because it's usually noted as having been 303 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: created in nineteen nineteen, so the Cowboy count is said 304 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: to have returned to Italy as calls for prohibition were 305 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: gaining favor in the United States, and he frequented a 306 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: place called Cafe Cassoni in Florence. This was not strictly 307 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: a bar, not strictly a cafe. It also sold groceries 308 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: and perfumes, kind of like a corner store with a 309 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: cocktail bar in it, which that sounds like a handy 310 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: thing to have in a neighborhood. It still exists, though 311 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: it's now known as Cafe Jacosa, and Camillo d'groni is 312 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: said to have stopped in there one day, as he 313 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,719 Speaker 1: often did, and asked for an Americano but popi robusto 314 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: or a little bit more robust. Camila n'groni is said 315 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: to have picked up a taste for gin while living 316 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: in the United States, so bartender Fosco Scarceli omitted the 317 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: club soda and replaced it with gin, and then topped 318 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: that with an orange garnish. There are also historians that 319 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: say the gin was simply added without omitting the soda. 320 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: But whichever way the Negroni was born, maybe Scarceli remained 321 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: known for creating the Negroni for the rest of his life, 322 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: and according to various accounts, people started ordering it by saying, 323 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: I want the same drink as Negroni. But there are 324 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: still some problems with the story. For one, members of 325 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: the Negroni family have stated that they have scoured their 326 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: family tree back to the eleventh century. They found no 327 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: Count Camillo, although there was a reproduction of his birth 328 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: certificate that has since appeared in print. Now to support 329 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 1: the general Pascal Negroni story, we found several mentions of 330 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: an article titled new evidence that Neigroni was invented in 331 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: Africa Sorry Italy that was said to appear in a 332 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: publication called Drinking Cup in twenty twelve. I sure couldn't 333 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: find this, but Tracy did. It's a now defunct site 334 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: which featured a photo of a letter that Pascal Olivier 335 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: Negroni sent to his brother that suggested that he created 336 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: this drink in eighteen fifty seven to celebrate his wedding, 337 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: and he then introduced it to officers while he was 338 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: stationed in Senegal in eighteen seventy. This is also tricky though, 339 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: because in eighteen fifty seven Campari didn't exist yet, and 340 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: most bartenders will tell you if there's no Campari, it's 341 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: not a Negroni. But in twenty fifteen, author Luca Peake 342 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: published his story of the Negroni and sides with the 343 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: Camilla Nigroni version, but also includes a story of litigation 344 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: in this book which echoes the one we talked about 345 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: with the Shirley Temple, although in the opposite way. In 346 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: the late nineteen fifties, a company called Treviso, which was 347 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: owned by a member of the Nigroni family, put a 348 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: pre mixed negro on the market, sold in bottles, but 349 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: it was, according to the barman and liqueur manufacturers of 350 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: the time, bad bad enough that Campari and several other 351 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: Liqueur companies sued over it and the case. A lot 352 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 1: of people testified to the Florence origin of the cocktail 353 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: at Cafe Cassoni, including bartender Fosco Sarcelli. The bottled old 354 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: Nigrony cocktail was taken off the market, so it seems 355 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: like pretty much all of the actual evidence supports the 356 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: Count Negroni, who was a cowboy and perhaps a very 357 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: flamboyant character. But wherever it started, it seems like its 358 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: intense flavor is matched only by the intense scrutiny its 359 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 1: origins have gotten and the intense disagreements about who it's 360 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: really named for. The Campari Company, by the way, sticks 361 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: with that nineteen nineteen Florence origin. Our next beverage is 362 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 1: a soft drink. We will talk about whether or not 363 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: it really qualifies as an eponymous food him after we 364 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 1: hear from the sponsors that keep stuffymus in history class, 365 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: going alrighty, we have had a mocktail and a cocktail, 366 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: and this next one is a soft drink. Have you 367 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: ever wondered why doctor Pepper is called? That? Is there 368 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 1: Doctor Pepper? Like the Negroni, there are competing stories. We 369 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: definitely do know who invented this one though, and a 370 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: lot about the early years of doctor Pepper, but the 371 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: doctor himself that it may or may not be known for. 372 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: That's a little more mysterious. And this story starts in Waco, Texas, 373 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: but it has roots in Virginia. The inventor of this 374 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: soft drink was Charles Alderton. Alderton was born in Brooklyn, 375 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 1: New York, on June twenty first, eighteen fifty seven. After 376 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: finishing a bachelor's degree in England. He went to the 377 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: University of Texas to study medicine and used his education 378 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: to become a pharmacist a job in a drug store 379 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: in Waco, Texas called Morrison's Old Corner drug Store. This 380 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: was an old school drug store with a soda fountain. 381 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: I kind of missed these. There maybe are still some somewhere. 382 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: I know definitely of one in New York, but there 383 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: are more than that, I'm sure, but they're few and 384 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: far between now. Yeah, there was one in Like the 385 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: pharmacy that we went to when I was growing up 386 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: had a soda fountain, and that is where my brother's 387 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: after school job was in high school. So, according to 388 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: the Doctor Pepper Museum, which is in the original building 389 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 1: where the now defunct Morrison's drug Store operated, Alderton loved 390 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: the way the store smelled because of all of the 391 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 1: fruit syrups from the soda fountain. So when he wasn't 392 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: busy compounding medicines, he would get behind the soda fountain 393 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: counter and help serve customers, and he started to think 394 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: about how he might combine a number of syrups to 395 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: make a carbonated drink that tasted the way the store smelled. 396 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: He started experimenting with this idea in eighteen eighty five 397 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: and kept notes on what combinations and proportions he had used. 398 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: He kept tweaking the mix until he felt like he 399 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,479 Speaker 1: had it just right, so the next step was a 400 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 1: taste test with the boss, Wade Morrison. Morrison also liked it, 401 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: and they started offering it to customers, who also liked 402 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: it a lot. They patented this beverage on December first, 403 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty five. At that point it was just called 404 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: a Waco and it became so popular that other drug 405 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: stores started buying the mix from Morrison so they too 406 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: could sell wacos. The burden of distributing that much product 407 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: out of a drug store got to be too much, 408 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 1: especially because according to legend, it has had twenty three 409 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: ingredients Since the beginning, Alderton and Morrison could not keep 410 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: up as demand grew, enter Richard S. Lazenbee, who was 411 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: a beverage chemist. Lazinbie owned a ginger ale company and 412 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: he approached Morrison and Alderton and suggested that he could help, 413 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 1: and at this point Morrison went into business with Lazinbe. 414 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: It seems that Alderton loved the creativity of creating this 415 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: drink and working out the formula, but he wasn't really 416 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: interested in the logistics of large scale beverage manufacture. So 417 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: Lazinbe and Morrison went into business together and they formed 418 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: the Artesian Manufacturing and Bottling Company. In eighteen ninety one. 419 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: Lazinbee's son in law, JB. O'Hara, also joined the company 420 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: and it changed names to the Doctor Pepper Company. I 421 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: swear we're going to come back to the name, but 422 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: for now, just know it changed names for the next 423 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: decade and change. The drink remained kind of a local 424 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: specialty in Texas, but in nineteen oh four, Doctor Pepper 425 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: made its global debut at the World's Fair exposition in 426 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: Saint Louis. It's estimated that Lazinbe and O'Hare served the 427 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: drink to twenty million people over the course of the expo, 428 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: but they had prepared for that. The company had built 429 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: a new bottling plan in Saint Louis ahead of the 430 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: fair and started advertising in Missouri as early as nineteen 431 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: oh one, and when the expo opened, Doctor Pepper was 432 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: sold at concession stands throughout the complex. Was a huge 433 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: moment for the company, which continued to expand rapidly. Headquarters 434 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: moved from Waco to Dallas in nineteen twenty three as 435 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: part of the expansion. Okay, but who is doctor Pepper? 436 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: There are several stories and theories. One is simply that 437 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: the name was concocted to suggest the idea of it 438 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: giving the consumer a bit of pep or energy. That 439 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: was something that was a big concept in the late 440 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. You've heard us talk about 441 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: it on other episodes where we talk about people who 442 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: I don't want to say study nutrition because sometimes they 443 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: weren't quite on it. But it was a popular concept 444 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 1: like we need more pep, and that the addition of 445 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: doctor on the label was intended to give it some 446 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: sort of gravitaz, right, like a doctor pick me up. 447 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: Pep may have also been short for pepsin, which is 448 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 1: a digestive enzyme. The most popular story, though, is what 449 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: puts this in an eponymous Foods episode. This one involves 450 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: a bit of backward time travel. Not long after the 451 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: US Civil War, a drug store opened in the town 452 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: of Rural Retreat, Virginia by a man named Charles T. Pepper. 453 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: Pepper was born in New River Valley in eighteen thirty 454 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: and attended the University of Virginia Medical School. He got 455 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: his medical degree in eighteen fifty five. Served in the 456 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: Civil War as a surgeon for the Confederate Army. He 457 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: had first started a private practice in Tennessee when the 458 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: war ended, but then moved to Rural Retreat and established 459 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 1: a combination drug store in doctor's office according to the law. 460 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: In eighteen seventy four, he hired a young Wade Morrison 461 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 1: to work as a pharmacist, and it was Morrison's first job. 462 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: Wade only stayed in Rural Retreat for a few year 463 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: years before moving to Texas, although he moved around the 464 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: state of Texas for a bit before settling in Waco. 465 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: So there is this story that he had fallen in 466 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,920 Speaker 1: love with Charles Pepper's daughter and wanted to marry her. 467 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: That information does not hold up to scrutiny. Pepper's daughter 468 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: would have been a little kid when Wade moved to Texas. 469 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: Ruth Pepper did get married much later, in nineteen oh 470 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: one to a man named Barnes Gillespie, but this story 471 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: of this romance element has persisted. That Morrison had named 472 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: this popular soda after his first boss as part of 473 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: his involvement with the family. There is an interesting element 474 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: in this, which is how very invested rural retreat Virginia 475 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: has been in maintaining the importance of doctor Charles Pepper's 476 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: role in this chain of events that led to the 477 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: soda and its name. Sometimes the story of the daughter 478 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: and Wade being in love is repeated. It's combined with 479 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: a romantic melodrama element, suggesting that Morrison created the soda 480 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: beverage to try to impress Charles Pepper but failed, and 481 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: that he left Virginia in embarrassment and heartbreak. Another version 482 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: of the story that sometimes told is that Charles Pepper 483 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,479 Speaker 1: actually invented the formula and that Wade Morrison took it. 484 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: There's even a brief mention in a nineteen ninety two 485 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: write up about the beverage that Charles Pepper left behind 486 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: some notes that some believe to have been part of 487 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: the formula. These notes mentioned swamproot, quinine, spices, raisins, and soda. 488 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: Yet another version suggests that Wade may have taken the 489 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: formula from Charles's son, Lewis. There's even a variation suggesting 490 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: that Lewis ran away to join the circus and got 491 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: it from someone. There so many fanciful stories, but there 492 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: is yet another twist in all of this. Because researchers 493 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: at the Doctor Pepper Museum looked into Morrison's years in Virginia, 494 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: there is there's no evidence he ever worked for Charles T. Pepper. 495 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: He lived about forty miles away in Christiansburg, Virginia, But 496 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: when they looked at census records for that town during 497 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: the time Wade Morrison lived there, they did find another 498 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: Doctor Pepper, doctor William Alexander Reed Pepper. This doctor Pepper 499 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: lived near Morrison, They were in the same neighborhood, and 500 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: he had a daughter just one year younger than Wade. 501 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: Could he be the real doctor that the drink is 502 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: named for, and maybe that's where this love interest story 503 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: got its start listen. If so, we're probably never going 504 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: to know for certain, because there is not much information 505 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: on that doctor Pepper or Wade's possible relationship with him 506 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: or his daughter. What we do know is that Doctor 507 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: Pepper has continued to be one of the largest soda 508 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: brands globally. A secret recipe of twenty three ingredients has 509 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: been theorized and mythologized for more than one hundred years. 510 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: The company has also gone through a lot of shifts 511 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: and changes over the years. Today it is part of 512 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: Kurig Doctor Pepper. There are more things about Doctor Pepper's history. 513 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: For example, now just FYI any style guide people, there's 514 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: no period in it. Okay, we'll talk about that and 515 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: other stuff behind the scenes on Friday. I feel like 516 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: my head is full of odd Doctor Pepper facts that 517 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: weren't really germane to this part of the story. There's 518 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: a lot of litigation that I became very fascinated by. 519 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: But now I will do a little bit of listener mail, 520 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: which feels a little bit like a solidarity listener mail 521 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: because it is somebody who felt the same way as 522 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: I did about their plush toy growing up and Scarlet Fever. 523 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: This is from our listener Elise, who titled their email 524 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: Don't burn My Teddy Bear. Alise writes, Hi, Holly and Tracy, 525 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: I'm catching up on the last few weeks of episodes 526 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: and just listen to the behind the scenes episode on 527 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: Scarlet Fever, and I had to write you after listening 528 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: to you ladies discuss the Velveteen Rabbit, and admittedly tearing up, 529 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: I had to share I have a teddy bear that 530 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: I've loved dearly my whole life. It's lived with me 531 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: in every house an apartment I've ever had, and still does. 532 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: As a kid, after reading The Velveteen Rabbit, I was 533 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: so fearful of scarlet fever and the consequences that any 534 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: time I had the slightest throat tickle or any signs 535 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: of illness, I would hide my bear in the back 536 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: of my closet. I remember being so afraid the adults 537 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: would come and burn my things, including the bear, and 538 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: I could not allow that. But if he wasn't near 539 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: me when I was sick, he wouldn't need to be burned. Right, 540 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: nightmares ensued. I'm certainly no advocate of banning books, but 541 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: this one should maybe be labeled as YA fiction. I 542 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: think that's actually kind of smart. On another note, I 543 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: cannot thank the two of you enough for all your 544 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: hard work sourcing materials, for your episodes, working tirelessly to 545 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: use respectful and updated language, and for the care with 546 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: which you handle delicate and potentially triggering topics. I also 547 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: love the laughter you share and find myself smiling and 548 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,239 Speaker 1: chuckling along with you, especially when I can predict one 549 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: of your reactions to something. I've been a listener to 550 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: Stuffy Miss in history class for a long time, but 551 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: over the last years, I worked my way through every 552 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: single episode earning my second PhD. The first is in 553 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: cellular and molecular biology. It allows me to teach biology 554 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,719 Speaker 1: at a local university. During the last few years, your 555 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: voices have become such a source of comfort and familiarity 556 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: that I will save up episodes to listen to you 557 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: after a hard day. I'm so honored by that My 558 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: two doggoes, Greta and Finn actually allow me to move 559 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: around the house without constantly trailing behind when your voices 560 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: are playing from my pocket. Thanks, by the way, for 561 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: not using lots of background sound effects doors creaking or 562 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: knocking in the background of some of my other favorite podcasts. 563 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: Sends the dogs off into the deep end. Dog photos attached. 564 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: Obviously this is so sweet. Okay, first of all, I 565 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: don't know which dog is which one of these dogs. 566 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: This is like a supermodel glamour shot. The dog is gorgeous. 567 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: First of all, it's the one with the white chest area. 568 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: Sitting in the grass just in the yard, but one 569 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: ear is flopped over with this like insussient devil may 570 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: care expression that's like a The other dog is absolutely 571 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: adorable and they both look like very good babies. I 572 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: kind of want to hug and kisch your dogs. Thank 573 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: you so much to a Lease. I'm glad I'm not 574 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,280 Speaker 1: the only person who had contingency plans for my toys 575 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,240 Speaker 1: and how they had to be kept safe at all costs. 576 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,919 Speaker 1: It was very reasuring. If you would like to write 577 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: to us, you could do so at History Podcast at 578 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio dot com. You can also find us on social 579 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: media as missed in History pretty much everywhere. And if 580 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,720 Speaker 1: you would like to subscribe to the show and haven't 581 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: done so yet, maybe you, like Alise, want to get 582 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: your PhD and stuff you missed the History class. You 583 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: can do that on the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you 584 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Stuff you Missed in History 585 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 586 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 587 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.