WEBVTT - The BA Q&A: Leaving a Toxic Work Environment 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:08.640 Hey, hey, ba fam, I have got some really freaking 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.920 incredible news. We have been nominated for a Webby, y'all. 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:15.760 The Webby is the oscars of the Internet. And the 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:18.480 fact that Brown Ambition has been recognized with a nomination 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:23.040 for Best Business Podcast this is incredible. The most incredible 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.319 thing of all about being nominated for a Webby is 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:27.800 that you, guys can help decide who wins. That means 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.480 you can vote for us. Go to Webby Awards dot com. 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:36.280 That's we b b y A w r ds dot com, 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:40.839 find the Best Business Podcast Award nominees and vote for 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.519 Brown Ambition. You can also check the show notes. We'll 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:46.239 put a link to where you can vote there for 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:48.680 easy voting. But tell a friend to tell a friend. 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.360 If we take home this award, it's going to be 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:54.080 so symbolic of all the hard work we put into 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.600 this show and of how incredible our BA family is. 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:01.240 So go vote for us. Voting is open now through 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.240 April twenty first. Thank y'all so much for your support. 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:07.480 Thank you the Webby Awards for nominating us. Now let's 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:11.720 take this on or home, y'all. Hey, hey va fam, 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.720 it's Mandy. I am back with another episode of the 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:18.880 Brown Ambition QNA. I am loving getting y'all's questions. Y'all 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:21.320 have some doozies for me this week though, some really 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.200 juicy career questions. I cannot wait to dive into those. 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:26.759 But before I do, I've got to remind y'all how 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:30.280 to submit your questions. Head over to Brownambitionpodcast dot com. 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:32.440 You can simit a question there, or you can slide 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.160 into our DMS. We are at Brown Ambition Podcast on 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:43.720 ig Send us your questions again, finances, career, relationship, pet, maintenance, whatever, 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.560 Just send me your questions. Okay, I'm happy to take 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.720 them on the show without further ado. Let's jump right 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.280 on into these questions for the week. We've got two 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.520 who are very justifiably so going to be required to 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.960 be anonymous, which is fine. Our first question comes from 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.160 a woman who works in broadcast news and ooh, I 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.800 felt this question deep, deeply inside my bone. So let's 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:08.840 get into it. Okay, here's our first question. Let's call 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:13.360 her Oprah Winfrey because she works in broadcast news. So 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:18.320 Oprah says, how do you navigate whitesplaining both on social 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:21.600 media and in the workplace. I'm a news anchor and 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:25.000 I recently posted an IG video about why job seekers 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.840 should network and proactively pitch themselves to their hiring managers 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.560 rather than reactively waiting for job descriptions to be posted. 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.320 I received a comment on the video from a white 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.760 woman who says she works in HR. She said networking 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:40.960 is a good supplement in the job search, but is 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.560 not a replacement for sending an online application. She also 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:48.200 explained it's inaccurate to say many jobs aren't posted online 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:52.320 as job descriptions kickstart the hiring process. While I don't 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.240 doubt this is how the hiring process works at her company, 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:57.519 I'm really annoyed that she went out of her way 0:02:57.560 --> 0:02:59.760 to try to correct me when I know what I 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:03.239 said was accurate for many companies and industries. I don't 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.480 mind if people correct me when I'm actually wrong, but 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.760 I found whenever I'm corrected by someone with inaccurate information, 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.240 the correction is always coming from a white woman or 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.160 a white or Asian man. I'm tended to point this 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:17.720 out when I respond to their comments, but I never 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.880 do because I don't want to be seen as playing 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.360 the race card. My question isn't necessarily about how to 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.239 respond but I'd love to hear how you navigate white 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.559 splaining and how you prevent it from ruining your afternoon. 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.160 I'm just so tired of dealing with whitesplainning from mediocre people, 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:40.320 and it triggers so much anxiety whenever it happens. Okay, lady, oh, 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:45.800 lady Oh, listen first and foremost as as a fellow 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.640 woman of color who's out there on these internet streets 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:52.040 sharing her point of view on many subjects, including how 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.800 to network, and I will back you up one thousand 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.440 percent on what you have said. It is so important 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.360 to think about way more more than just applying online 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:03.440 for jobs when you really want to get to the 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:05.640 next level of your career. And while it can be 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:09.240 true that and I just had a coaching mentor mentee 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:10.960 of mine today who told me that she got an 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:14.480 amazing job as an assistant director at a major company 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.520 and she applied online. So absolutely it can happen. It 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:19.479 can happen. From filling out a job application, you can 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:24.880 get an opportunity. However, it is factual that many, many, many, 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:27.280 in fact, the large majority of jobs are not even 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:31.599 posted online. They aren't they're being filled internally. They're being 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:35.479 passed to candidates, from recruiters, from hiring managers before they're 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:39.560 even published, you know, formally online. So I back you 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.080 up one hundred percent. But to your point, as someone 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.520 who is out there constantly sharing my point of view 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.960 and trying to help people by sharing my perspective on 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:51.520 lots of different career and finance questions, just as I 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:53.960 do on the show right now, you do open yourself 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:58.240 up to critiques. You do open yourself up to other 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.360 people sharing their opinions in return, I had to really 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:03.880 check myself to be honest. I had to check myself 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:08.919 from that instant gut reaction of like, who are you 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.000 to tell me that my opinion is wrong? I'm correct, 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.720 Here's what I've said. I had to stop myself from 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.160 kind of having that initial negative, like you said, ruin 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.559 my whole afternoon response to someone like a naysayer trying 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.479 to tell me that what I said wasn't accurate. What 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:26.880 I tried to do even more for myself was remind 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.479 myself what was my rationale for what I said? What 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:34.600 was how how did I say it? Was I factually correct? 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:38.080 And actually being open to another's perspective I think is 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.560 something that we can all do a better job of now. 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.520 As black women listen, we are challenged in a way 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.560 at a fever pitch that is not seen I don't 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.200 think by other categories of people when you see a 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:54.640 black woman who knows what she's talking about and has 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:58.000 the confidence to assert herself and to say with her 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.040 full chest how she feels on a certain map. I 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:03.000 don't have any data to back this up right now, 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.480 but would I would hazard a guess that we are 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.640 more likely to be We are more likely to be 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.560 seen as not qualified to come up with that opinion 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.440 to oh, well, she doesn't have this degree or she 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:17.320 doesn't work in that field, so how does she know? 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:20.640 And to try to be, as you said, white's blained 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.120 or man's blained or whatever, just basically look down upon 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:28.440 and patronized by other people. That's sort of our burden 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.080 to bear. I feel like I don't want that to stop. 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:34.600 You do not stop, Okay, do not stop, lady. Oh continue, 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:36.800 You've got to keep sharing your voice, because for every 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:38.920 person who's taking the time out of their day to 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.360 leave you a comment and try to tear you down, 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.680 there's many, many, many other viewers who are probably really 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:46.720 empowered by what you're telling them. And I see this 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:50.680 every single day. So a couple of ways that I 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:54.680 don't let negative comments, regardless of who they come from, white, black, whoever. 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:57.480 How I don't let them ruin my day is I 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.520 take time to read the positive comments too. Okay, those 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:03.839 comments matter, but they don't sting us the way that 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.800 negative comments do. Right. I just had someone last week 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:10.360 who told my followers do not follow her. She literally 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:13.120 said this came on my page. I'm Brown ambition and said, 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.200 do not follow her. She does not know of what 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:19.200 she speaks. And it was all about the conversation I 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.680 had in a recent BEAQ at a episode about how 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.840 a resume is not the only thing that matters when 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.360 it comes to getting your dream job. This person, who 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:33.040 liked to point out that she worked in HR said no, no, no, no, no, 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.920 this is not accurate. Don't follow Amandy. She's inaccurate. Blah 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.240 blah blah. Had I let that kind of ruin my day, 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.480 it would have discounted all the other amazing comments and 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.000 responses I've got from readers or listeners to the show. 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:47.120 And I don't want you to get in that space 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:51.160 where the naysayers are the voices that are ricocheting around 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:54.560 your mind. You have to actively fill your mind with 0:07:54.680 --> 0:08:00.600 positive affirmations, with positive reassurances, and positive feedback that you're getting. 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.960 I assure you that you are getting it from your followers, 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:08.320 from your viewers, from your colleagues, from your managers. Those 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.559 are the people whose opinions ultimately matter. Right And also 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:15.080 one of the reasons that I have gotten so much 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.480 more confident and sharing my point of view on things 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:22.240 is because things happen to me, and you can't tell 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.000 me that something didn't happen to me and I didn't 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.600 see something like I stand in my truth with and 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:28.960 I speak of what I know. I speak from my 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.880 own experience, and I speak from my heart. And at 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.040 the end of the day, it's impossible for anyone to 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.880 tell me that my point of view doesn't matter and 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:38.679 that it's not accurate. They may not agree with it, 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:41.520 but what you can't do is take away from my 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.800 experience and what I have seen. And all I'm doing 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:49.160 is sharing my opinion and my thoughts based on those experiences. 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.440 So it's going to happen. This is the beauty of 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.120 having a public platform and sharing your point of view. 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.800 But ooh, lady, oh, please don't stop, Please keep going 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.760 and let me be the first of many positive reaffirmations. 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.200 Is that even a word reaffirmation? Let me be one 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.480 of the positive voices that you hear today. And I 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:09.880 want you to keep what I'm saying close to you 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:13.200 and don't let the negative, you know, negative comments be 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.200 what carries you throughout the day. Listen to me. I'm 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:18.400 telling you that you're doing great work. I'm telling you 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:20.760 that I agree with you. I'm telling you to keep going. 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:23.560 And I think for all of us, it's really about 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.200 who are we gonna choose to Let's sit with us, 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.680 and let's sit on our spirits and let's sit in 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.319 our mind. Who are we carrying with us? Whose voices 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:32.920 are we going to carry with us throughout the day. 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:36.719 And I try to do my best to carry positive 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:39.800 voices with me wherever I go. It doesn't mean that 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.040 the negative voices are not there, and often they're my 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.720 damn own negative voice, you know what I mean. But 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.920 I do try to actively seek out positive vibes from 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.600 other people. I ask for feedback I literally have. I'm 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.199 not even gonna lie, i'mnn tell you all my secret 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.560 to happiness. When I'm having a really shitty day, I 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.080 survey every single one of my coaches clients. After I 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.560 chat with them, they get a little survey ask for 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.480 their feedback. And I don't check this spreadsheet of my 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.559 responses every day, but when I'm having a really shitty day, 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.080 I sure do. I open up that spreadsheet and I 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.280 read what they have to say, and I skip right 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.680 to the positive feedback column. Yes, I ask for what 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:19.720 could have been better, but that's not what I'm concerned 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:21.800 about in that moment. I want to read the positive 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:27.160 love and support and happy vibes from the people that 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.040 I have helped, and I just think we all could 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:31.320 use a little bit more of that. It doesn't mean 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:33.760 that we can't take a bit of criticism. I think 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:36.160 we should all be open to that, and certainly on 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.480 the Internet, like I'm trying to create a space where 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.240 people feel safe and they feel like they can share 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:44.439 their opinion in a way that's respectful. But at the 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:46.720 end of the day, we have to know deep in 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:49.720 our bones, you know who we are, what our experiences 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.760 are coming from, and that our voices do matter, and 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:57.960 our experiences and our thoughts are just as important as 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:03.400 anyone else's. Okay, so keep keep keep keeping on. Okay, lady, Oh, 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.320 thank you so much for sharing this question with me. 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.679 I hope this was helpful. I feel you, I hear you, 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:12.240 I see you, all of it. Okay, let me take 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:15.280 a quick break and I'll be right back with another 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:19.360 of your questions. This is Brown Ambition. Hey, hey va 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:21.959 fam Okay, we are back with our second and last 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:24.360 question of the day. This one is a juicy one. 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:26.720 It comes from a listener who would like to remain anonymous, 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:30.280 so I'm just gonna call her Hailey. Okay, Hailey says, Hey, Mandy, 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.480 I love the podcast, and I've been loving the Q 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.880 and A episodes lately. I have a question I hope 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:38.040 you can answer. I am resigning for my position at 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:42.280 a financial services firm due to some really negative circumstances. 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:46.400 I was sexually harassed and HR essentially did nothing about it. 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.520 There was never a formal onboarding process, so I've been 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.560 in the dark about many fundamental elements of the role, 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:55.640 and there's absolutely no trust within the team I'm on. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.080 Everyone on the team, including our director, have gossip to 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.080 me about other members behind their backs. I've heard that 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.840 I shouldn't include complaints or grievances in the letter of resignation, 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.320 But if anyone asks why I'm leaving, I've got pages 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.560 worth of negative experiences I could share. How would you 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.400 approach this situation and would you include any of that 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.120 in a letter or exit interview? Sincerely, a millennial who 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.360 seems to think she can change the old white men 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:26.680 in the finance industry with two crying face emojis, Oh man, 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.480 another woman who I just want to say, keep going, 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.600 my girl, I keep going. We need more of you 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.880 out there. First of all, I'm sorry, I'm sorry you 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.000 had this awful experience at a financial firm. No less, 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:43.040 because we all know financial services industries pay a lot 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.800 of lip service these days to wanting more women, especially 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:50.719 women of color, joining the industry because they are struggling. 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.040 They are finding that, oh, there's a lot of money 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.560 to be had from having diverse clientele, and yet we 0:12:55.600 --> 0:13:00.199 can't give them diverse financial representatives. So let's go start 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.480 a big marketing effort to get more women and people 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.880 of color to want to work here. And clearly what 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.480 they're doing is they're only thinking about how to get 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.200 us stupid door, but not how to actually make us 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.800 succeed once we get there. The fact that you weren't 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.640 even given any sort of orientation process and you're not 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:22.520 really understanding your role. That screams it's giving, toxic work environment. 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.640 It's giving we want you on the brochure, but we 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.320 don't really care about your longevity in this space or 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.959 in your career. I'm really glad that you're getting on 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:34.200 a bat of there. I hope your next job is 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.760 nothing like this one. I hope that they give you 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:38.880 everything that you need to succeed, and I hope that 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.200 you continue being open to leaving whenever you're not being 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:46.040 valued where you work. Okay, so a couple of things here. 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:49.520 The sexual harassment unacceptable, the fact that HR did nothing 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.160 about it. That tells me a lot about this company 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.360 and why you are leaving. Now. What to do when 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.640 you feel like you've got a list of grievances a 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.880 mile long, and especially when it's so fresh and you're 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.120 about to resign, It feels like you want to let 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:08.120 them know why you're leaving, and I honestly support that. 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.640 I think at this point on your way out, how 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:14.400 much do you have to lose by telling them exactly 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.280 about your experience. And I think you have to kind 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:20.080 of carefully weigh your options here, play it out in 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.280 your mind. You know, who would you be sharing this 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.720 list of grievances to and what would be the pros 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.960 and cons here now? In your industry and maybe in 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:33.040 your city, your state. It depends on who's at this 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.280 company and if you think they could make things more 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.640 difficult for you in your career later on, because first 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.760 and foremost you have to protect yourself. And I'm going 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:42.400 to be a little bit of a cynic here and 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:44.560 say that if the issues were so deep with this 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.800 company that a sexual harassment claim was not really dealt 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:51.120 with in an appropriate manner, and someone like you is resigning, 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:55.000 you know for that and other reasons, that you telling 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:59.680 them their issues is maybe not gonna change things there 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:01.800 for the better for the next person behind you, Like, 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.200 is it worth would it be worth potentially putting your 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:08.040 career at risk if there are people working there now 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.920 who could make things more difficult for you down the road. Now, 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.480 that's a question only you can answer if you kind 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:16.360 of weigh out the pros and cons and you say, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:19.240 you know, I actually don't have much to lose career 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.760 wise professionally, and maybe people work here they'll go on. 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:24.880 But I feel like my brand is strong enough, I've 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:27.440 got a great network. Clearly, you're great at your work 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:28.960 because you were able to get a job when you 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:31.960 wanted to. But if you feel like pretty confident that 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.960 no one at this company will cause issues for me 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.200 down the line, and on top of that, you're willing 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.920 to stick your neck out there to make things potentially 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.880 better for the next woman who's hired behind you, that's 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.560 a valiant effort. That's a valiant step to take. In 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.480 my opinion, it's brave. It takes courage to put yourself 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.240 out there in that way. Now, how to do it? 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:54.160 I mean, you want to protect yourself, so I would say, 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:56.280 you know, putting it in an email is one thing. 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:59.680 If you have a conversation on the phone, absolutely record it. 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:03.480 I'm all about kind of having my voice memo on 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.960 for certain phone conversations so that I have a record 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.520 of it. But an email is perfectly fine. You know, 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.080 if you don't have a formal exit interview process, what 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:14.520 you could do is, you know, write a letter and 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.720 make sure that it's going to the people who have 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.800 the actual power to change things. So I wouldn't send 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:24.640 an all like company wide email to the whole company 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.400 list serve and just be like, you know what, screw you, guys, 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.000 I'm out, So let me let everyone know. I might 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:34.000 start with head of HR, your department, head whoever their 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:39.160 bosses are, and just very you know, objectively. And I 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.040 think I mentioned on a question from last week's episode 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.560 about how important it is to come with some evidence, 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.240 you know, sit down and make a list of here's 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.560 what happened, here's the date, here are the key players, 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.520 and here's how these things made and actively contributed to 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:56.200 me wanting to leave. And if you approach it that way, 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.320 I really I feel like that's that's the approach that 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:03.640 I would personally take. If from that email people want 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:05.600 to have follow up phone calls and they want to 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:07.760 talk to you, and oh my goodness, we didn't know 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:10.439 at that point. It's too late. It's their problem. And 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.280 I wouldn't take any of that burden on your shoulders 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.840 to stick around any longer than you absolutely have to 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.119 and help them get to the bottom of what happened. 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:20.440 Like it's too late for all that you're just trying 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.200 to let them know so that things can maybe get 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.080 a little bit incrementally better for the next person who 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.360 comes behind you. And I think that, honestly, you're doing 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.760 them a service. You're helping them. You're giving them an 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.520 opportunity to clean up a little bit and to get better. 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.760 And if they take the opportunity or they don't, that's 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:40.000 not on your shoulders. You can say what you got 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:44.320 to say and then keep it moving. All right. I'm 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.480 so excited for you about your new opportunity. Thank you 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:52.399 for being brave enough to even consider the idea of 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.439 telling them what happened to you. There is power in 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:57.600 our stories. I hope that they hear your story and 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:59.640 they take action. But at least you can take heart 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.679 and mils that you know, hey, I went out of 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.280 my way to tell them what happened, and then kind 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.159 of take that pressure off yourself and take that burden 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:11.199 off your own shoulders to actually create the change that 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.160 obviously needs to be happening there so that things are 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.639 not so bad for the next person who comes along. 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:18.800 One thing that you didn't mention is whether or not 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:22.640 they already have a formal interview, a formal exit interview process, 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.480 and if there is going to be a formal exit interview, 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.440 I would absolutely you know, come prepared with that list 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.560 and ask them. You know, I actually do have some 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:32.480 points I'd like to make. Would you prefer I cover 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:33.879 that in a phone call or would you like me 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:35.479 to just forward you on this email and it can 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.840 do the talking for me. That's more than fine, honestly, whatever, 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:41.560 whatever's gonna get your point across with the least amount 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:43.439 of work on your side, that's what I would do, 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.239 so you can save it for the exit interview. Like 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.240 I said, if you want to take things a step further, 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:50.719 you could make sure that a copy of those grievances 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:54.000 are emailed not just to the person conducting your exit interview, 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.679 but the people who are responsible for whatever grievances. You 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.600 know you're calling out their managers, like you could decide 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.000 how you want to escalate it. It all comes back to, 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.560 you know, what's the risk versus reward here and are 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.719 you doing things you know in a way that is 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.600 going to help hopefully make things better for your other 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.480 colleagues you're leaving behind. And that can tell you, like 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.080 on a scale of one to really bad, petty how 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:20.879 petty you want to be. I would go for covering 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.640 it in an exit interview, following up with an email 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:27.080 and just tagging, copying the people who really have the 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.560 power to rectify the situation, copying on that, and then 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:33.879 let it go. At that point, you've done much you 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:37.080 need to do. Go to your new opportunity, go to 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.359 your new job, start this new chapter in your life. 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.119 Always remember what happened to you here so that it 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:44.520 makes you a better leader in the future, and talk 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:47.080 about it, and you know, find people who can support 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:49.760 you in the future. And that's really all you're responsible 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:51.880 for at the end of the day. All right, Miss 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:55.160 Haley aka millennial who seems to think she can change 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.199 the old white men in the finance industry. Yes, I 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:01.159 hope you're not a alone there, because they, y'all the 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.080 financial industry needs so much help. Okay, that is it 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:06.920 for B, a Q and A for this week. I'm 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:09.679 Mandy Woodriff Santos. Thank you so much for listening to 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:13.320 the show. Don't forget to subscribe, Share, tell a friend, 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.400 tell a friend about Brown Ambition. Tag us on all 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.600 of your amazing social media posts. I love to see them, 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:24.000 I comment, I share, I retweet, I reshare all that 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.000 good stuff. Thank you so much again, be a fam 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:30.240 and I will see you next week. Hey ba fam, 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.639 we could not do this show without your support or 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.400 the support of our team behind the scenes. The Brown 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:39.399 Ambition Podcast is produced by Cumulus Podcast Network. It's edited 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:43.200