WEBVTT - The Nurses 0:00:01.040 --> 0:00:05.559 Before we begin, please be aware this episode contains discussions 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:10.080 around infant deaths and other difficult topics. Please take care 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:10.920 while listening. 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:21.200 What did I say? A very traumatized woman, young woman, 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.639 somebody destroyed. My hearts went out to her. We sat 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:30.520 in from day one and it was an eye outen man. 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.839 There was people there that thought she was guilty, and 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.280 the people there that believed or she was, you know, 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.120 felt that she was innocent and wanted to seek themselves. 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.120 This is a woman we are calling Beth. She has 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:51.920 a special connection to Lucy let Be. You see, Beth 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:56.120 spent her career in the neonatal unit at Chester, retiring 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:00.240 only a couple of years before Lucy was arrested, seeing. 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:08.920 A nurse destroyed and sitting in the dark there being 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:13.479 accused when you can see yourself that there's a lot 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:15.680 more to this than he's coming out here. 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:20.720 Beth attended every day of Lucy Letby's second trial, the 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:22.080 retrial for Baby K. 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:29.319 I really really am so angry that these parents have 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:33.680 been put through so much. I lost a baby, and 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.760 I know what it's like if I'd have had to 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.320 go through what they went through and then have a 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:42.320 policeman knock on my door and say we think your 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:43.360 baby was murdered. 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.000 In the cacophony of voices swirling around the story of 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:51.840 Lucy Letbee, in every screaming headline, every panel of experts, 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.720 in all the police conferences, there was one group of 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.400 people who never seemed to rise above the fray. A 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.640 group of people who would have known more than anyone 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.400 what Lucy's life was like and would have possibly been 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:10.799 able to tell a different story or fill in some blanks. 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:15.079 Lucy's fellow nurses. 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:19.560 They've been silenced, and they live in clear and that 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.639 next time it might be done, they'll be investigator off. 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.080 I'll be found guilty. 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.440 Because Lucy isn't the first, she won't be the last. 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:36.480 I'm Amanda Knox and from Vespucci and iHeart Podcasts. This 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:42.359 is doubt the case of Lucy Leppie Chapter eight. The nurses. 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.239 I've never met a nurse that's come in to work 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.079 to harm the patient. I've met a nurse and made 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:07.240 a mistake and absolutely been devastated. I mean absolutely devastated. 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:12.480 Beth took care of the sickest babies for around forty years. 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:17.920 The job in the hospital is very, very stressful. It 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.960 changes throughout the day. You may be quiet at one 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:24.320 point and then suddenly an emergency happens and you know, 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:27.560 it's all hands to the deck, you know, people rushing 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:34.760 around everywhere. Patience care is paramount. Good patient care is paramount. 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.400 And I don't know a nurse, never met a nurse 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:42.000 that hasn't wanted to give her best to those patients. 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.120 But they still try and put that smile on the face. 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.320 And you know, I don't see anyone going into the 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:53.720 profession of nursing unless they really want to do that job. 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:56.800 It's not a job that you would do to earn 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.920 a wage. It's a job you do because you enjoy 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:00.760 what you're doing. 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.760 Those that knew Lucy say that she loved being a nurse, 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.000 that she dreamed of being one since she was a kid, 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.280 and that she was a good one too, which of 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:15.400 course meant that the arrests and the two trials that 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:19.880 ended in guilty convictions were even harder to understand. 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:24.839 When Lucy was first arrested, I was in the hospital 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:29.960 that day visiting, and the TV cameras were everywhere, and 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:34.040 nobody was saying what's going on? So to wait until 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:40.039 the news when the news came on, I found that 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:46.680 a nurse and nernaking nurse had been arrested the allegations 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:52.480 of harmon babies. Now something just didn't sit right with me. 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.320 It sat very, very uncomfortably. 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:00.520 Beth took that feeling and did something with it. 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:05.360 I'm reading everything I can get of the journalist's reports 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:07.760 because I don't want to miss anything. It became obvious 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:13.520 to me that it was multifaceted problems. There were not 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.120 just one problem. There were lots of problems surrounding it 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:20.320 which were causing these increase in depth, and you have 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.120 to get to the bottom of why this is happening 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.479 so that you can put it right, learn from it, 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:27.279 and put it right. 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.760 It was because of this unease that Beth and a 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:37.400 fellow nurse friend felt compelled to sit through Lucy's retrial 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:39.080 with Manchester. 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:45.600 So it was fairly close and we decided that we 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:49.080 wanted to go and all of this case. So we 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:54.080 went and there's quite a lot of nurses there and 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:58.279 we sat in from day one and it was an 0:05:58.320 --> 0:05:58.839 i over. 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:04.279 Before the trial Lucy was guilty. The second trial offered 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:08.279 an opportunity to hear the evidence for herself. Maybe she'd 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.320 hear something that made sense of the verdicts. 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:14.360 But it wasn't clear. There was no factual evidence there 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:19.840 at all. Where is the evidence that puts her at 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:25.719 faults here that she's harmed this baby. There's lots of 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:30.000 things happened before she even came on duty that you 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:34.120 can't put that blame on her. So those of us 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:38.680 that were with interest, watching and listening to what was 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:41.200 happening could see that there was a lot of red 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:46.040 flags appearing. To me, the evidence was there to prove 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.960 her innocence. I could see it. Most of us with 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:50.360 the medical knowledge could see it. 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:56.640 I just think it's just absolute rubbish. People who are 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:00.560 going to nursing going to nursing because they want to 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:06.760 help people. They want to they're caring individuals. I mean, 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.680 it's always caring people who get locked up in prison. 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:13.040 It's really really scary. It's very scary. 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.600 It's a bit like the old sixteenth century, which hunts, 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.640 isn't it. I think people get ideas in their heads, 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:23.320 and once you've got an idea in your head, you 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:24.840 can't get rid of it. 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.200 Like Beth Michelle Warden spent her career in the neo 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:30.320 natal field. 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.640 I was the advance near natal nurse practitioner at the 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:35.880 Countess of Chester Hospital. 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.680 In the years leading up to Lucy's arrest. Michelle had 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.160 a front row seat to the changes in funding and 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:45.720 ultimately the care at the Counters of Chester. 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:48.720 I went to work on the unit in nineteen eighty 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:53.200 eight and wear and tear was beginning to show even 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:55.600 back then. By the time you get to the time 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:59.920 of the indictment in twenty fifteen, this is a very 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:06.600 tired unit with problems with the plumbing, problems with the 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:13.320 ceiling tiles, problems with the sinks and the taps sometimes 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.920 not working properly, not being able to get hot water. 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:19.840 And it wasn't just true in the near naked unit, 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.679 it was throughout the women and Children's hospital and labor 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.920 ward had as many problems as did the guyiny wards 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:30.960 and the pediatric wards. But it was a very old, 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:32.640 tired building. 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:37.160 Along with the physical problems, Michelle says that a lack 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:41.280 of funding affected the working environment at the Countess, including 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:45.679 the number of experienced nurses on staff. In twenty eleven, 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.240 Michelle and five other senior nurses were laid off. 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:55.960 Nurses were dispensed with under the terminology of restructuring, but 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.600 in actual fact it was cost cutting. And then they 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:01.680 employed eight nursery nurses. 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:05.160 A nursery nurse simply means that they solely worked in 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:09.760 the nursery and only had childcare qualifications. They would have 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:13.880 needed to be supervised to perform any clinical tasks, usually 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:15.080 by a registered nurse. 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.240 Now, we'd always had nursery nurses on the unit, and 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:21.600 they have a valid role to play, but they should 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.199 be there to enhance the role of a registered nurse, 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:29.000 not to replace the registered nurse. So by the time 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.560 you got to the indictment period, I think it was 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:37.040 the perfect storm. You had very few really senior nurses. 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:42.640 You had very few registered nurses on duty. You had 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:47.040 nursery nurses who were being asked to care for babies 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:52.480 beyond their level of competency. You had consultants who were 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:57.000 never there. If you take Lucy, Lucy was employed in 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:02.280 Chester in twenty twelve, there was two newly qualified, straight 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:07.040 out of university registered nurses employed, Lucy being one of them. 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.920 By the time we get to the indictment period in 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.440 twenty fifteen, which is only three years, they're saying she's 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:17.640 really senior. You cannot compare three years experience with somebody 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:22.520 like me who had thirty years experiences. I cannot think 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:26.680 of any profession where you would be deemed to be 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.040 senior after three years postgrad. 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:34.079 And there was evidence that those inexperienced nurses were buckling 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:35.080 under the pressure. 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:39.080 Well, we know from emails that have now been released 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:41.800 that by the time you got to two thousand and 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:46.839 fifteen December, one of the consultants was right into management 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:48.160 saying the. 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:49.280 Staffer in tears. 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:54.360 The workload is overwhelming. We know in December twenty fifteen 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:58.160 this unit was only funded for sixteen cops, so it 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:03.240 had three intensive care, four high dependency and the rest 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:04.679 were special care cots. 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:07.000 But there was at least. 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:10.720 Two occasions in December twenty fifteen where they had twenty 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:15.640 and twenty one babies, so they were running out of incubators, 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:17.880 they were running out of basic equipment, they were taking 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:22.400 more babies than they really had cops four and she 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.640 actually writes in the email, this is going to result 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:30.000 in children's lives or the physical and mental wellbeing of 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:30.640 the staff. 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.880 These problems were also noted by the Royal College of 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:41.160 Pediatrics and Child Health. A twenty sixteen report found that 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:46.080 staffing levels were inadequate, and perhaps most revealing, they noted 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.679 that it wasn't just the neonatal ward that had an 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:53.920 increased mortality rate. In twenty fifteen, the maternity ward where 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:58.040 Lucy let Be did not work also had elevated rates 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:02.040 of stillbirths. That makes me wonder if the problem was 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.600 bigger than just one bad nurse. Was this a problem 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:10.160 across the entire maternity unit well? According to the Royal 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.760 College of Pediatrics, the cause of increased deaths in the 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:19.160 neonatal ward were systemic issues like crumbling infrastructure and staffing shortages. 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:23.360 To date, the Countess of Chester Hospital has been very 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.000 guarded about this data. 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.480 And the austerity is hit in all public services and 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:33.360 that had a major impact on the NHS as the whole, 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:35.560 so Chester was no different. 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:40.080 Beth was working through this belt tightening time as well. 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:44.280 She also witnessed the crumbling infrastructure and the lack of 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.400 updated equipment and the staffing shortages. 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:51.520 You've got to work within your financial constraints, which means 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:55.360 that some things have to go, so training is cut 0:12:55.400 --> 0:13:00.199 to the quick. Staff we tend to work on low 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.880 levels of staff and then the stress levels start rising. 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:08.800 Staff course sick, so they become more dependent on banking 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:13.280 agency to fill those shifts. You don't have that same continuity, 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:18.520 so over time standard start for it's gradual, but they 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.200 fall and you'll find staff going home at the end 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:26.760 of the day in tears, absolutely in tears because they've 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.200 not been able to, in their eyes, deliver the standard 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.920 of care that they've been trained and want to give. 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:41.080 This question around staffing was something that statistician professor Jane 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.040 Hutton looked at when she had originally been approached by 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:48.840 the police to help them create that all important chart. However, 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:53.079 Jane was quickly dropped from the investigation when she disagreed 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.160 with the police's approach. She has since gone on to 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.040 be one of the many voices questioning the validity of 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.240 the statistical EVA evidence against Lucy. 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.880 Lucy Lefty was one of the most experienced nurses because 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.679 the management had got rid of the advanced nurse practitioners 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:10.640 whom you're supposed to have if you try to run 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.920 an unit like this, and they went there, so you'd 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:18.920 be getting the most experienced person and obviously the sicker 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.000 patients tend to be given if you were a choice 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:24.280 to the most experienced doctors and nurses. The other thing 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.960 the chant doesn't show is who wasn't there, which is 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.360 important because of course you might like to know about 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.840 the doctors as well as the nurses. But the doctors 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.960 were only doing two war rounds a week. They should 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.160 have been doing two war rounds a day. That information 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:44.720 clearly is very important. Were the babies dying because the 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.560 consultants weren't getting round to caring for them? 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:51.080 For Jane, the issues brought up in the report by 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.760 the Royal College of Pediatrics and Child Health pointed to 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.480 a much bigger problem at Chester Hospital. 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.960 When the Royal College which of Pediatrics and Child Health 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.600 was asked in to carry out a review, they found 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.040 twenty three major failings with the unit. They were also 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.360 told by the doctors of the doctors said there were 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.000 suspicious of let be and they said there is no 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.560 evidence to support that suspicion. But that's where you got 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:21.080 the comment on the lack of consultant ward rounds and 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:24.400 the lack of communications a lot of other problems. That 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:28.480 report recommended a more detailed investigation, which Jane Horden did. 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.840 Sir neonatal consultant, and in the seventeen cases she looked at, 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.880 I don't know how those cases were selected, she found 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:40.880 major or substantial clinical that is, medical failings in fourteen 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.920 out of the seventeen. So to my mind, that gives 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.960 you a set of possible explanations for the events that 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:47.720 you should. 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:56.280 Consider within this swirl of problems and stress. Humans make mistakes, 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.680 and that includes nurses. But when you have an institution 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:04.040 that is fighting tooth and nail for every penny they 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:08.240 can get, people start to protect themselves, their jobs and 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:12.080 their positions, leading to a culture of fear and the 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.840 lack of willingness to be open about mistakes. 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.320 If we're honest, how many of us like submitting we've 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:23.360 got something wrong. How many of us consultants management would 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:26.640 much rather find somebody to blame. You know, let's be honest. 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.640 It's this is not a matter of aren't they terrible 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:31.680 and we're perfect? None of us is perfect. 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.520 And for Beth, if you've got a really sick patient 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:40.520 and that patient dies, they're terrified that somebody's going to 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.120 come along a point of finger and try and blame 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:47.200 you for somebody's death. You know, you've see nurses the 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:51.160 dealing with emergency situations and they're calm and they're cool. 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:55.200 That is because they're trained to stand back, let the emotion, 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.600 let let motion get in the way, and you deal 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.400 with that case in front of me, that emergency in 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:05.480 front of you. You just get on and you calmly 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:13.040 do the work. Then afterwards you can go and cry. 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:19.440 And it is a difficult job. It's a very rewarding job, 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:23.080 but it does come with its its traumas as well. 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.840 Nobody wants to lose a patient and sometimes, you know, 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:35.000 many times the nurses will sit there after an emergency 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:39.920 situation where they've lost a patient and question themselves and say, 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.560 is there something I missed? Did I miss anything? Could 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:50.000 I have done something differently? Because nobody wants to lose 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:54.480 a patient, it's a massive impact on care because they 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:56.720 will be too frightened, they're too fright to speak out. 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.560 That is exactly what drove Jenny Harris away from her 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:08.800 work as a neonatal nurse with the NHS after eighteen years. 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:13.119 It's like a roller coaster of emotions on the neonatal unit. 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.879 It really is. I think you could experience every emotion 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:21.359 in one shift. To be honest, like we're humans at 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:23.040 the end of the day out where we've got hearts. 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.240 That's why we want to be neonatal nurses, because we 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.640 care for these babies and these families. 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:34.040 That drive that love for the job. Jenny says that 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:38.600 it can only take you so far. Years of funding cuts, 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.160 staff shortages, and a culture of blame can make even 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:46.000 the most loving and professional nurse rethink her role. 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:52.480 The management support is not really there. You're not appreciated, 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.840 you're not thanked, You're just blamed for things. The bullying 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.600 is horrendous. I had to see the psychology spons a 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.120 week just to get through the week because of bullying 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:08.280 that was happening. It can be really toxic. It's just 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:09.120 not worth it. 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:12.480 But it was the Lucy let Be case that really 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.679 pushed Jenny to walk away from the NHS. 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.000 Because I was just like, this could have I know 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:19.879 people say it all the time, but this could have 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:23.919 easily have been me. Because I'm an unatle nurse. I 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.959 look after babies that have died. Babies have died on 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.000 my shift, babies have died whilst I've been caring for them. 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.760 Jenny felt especially knocked off guard when she heard about 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.800 some of the evidence used to convict Lucy. One of 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:42.560 those were the handover notes found under Lucy's bed. Handover 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:44.919 notes are written by nurses at the end of their shift, 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:49.159 recording what Kara baby has received and flagging anything the 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:50.479 next nurse needs to know. 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:55.320 I've taken handover notes home. I've done it for many reasons, 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.840 especially when I was in the first few years of 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:01.800 being an innatalness and I would take them on by accident. 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:05.719 I see a lot of similarities with me and Lucy 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.160 in the way from what I've heard, Like I don't 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.080 know Lucy, but like I used to keep a lot 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:15.680 of the handover notes, and even like other bits and pieces. 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:20.080 She says that taking those papers home was never malicious. 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.080 Neither was looking up patient families on Facebook, just like 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:25.960 Lucy did, because you want to. 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.919 See that the family are okay. Because you're not allowed 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.480 to you're like to contact them, You're not like to 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.679 have their phone number. Imagine caring for a baby for 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:37.960 a few weeks. You've really got to know the parents well, 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:41.320 You've built up a relationship with them. The baby dies. 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:47.560 Nurses need closure too. We need closure as much as well, 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:49.040 not as much as the parents do. But do you 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.160 know what I mean? We need closure too, and if 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:55.560 that's her way of getting closure, then I don't understand 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:55.920 what the. 0:20:55.880 --> 0:21:00.720 Problem is and those suspicious post it notes. Jenny was 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.199 also encouraged by her therapist to write things down as 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:06.479 a way of coping with the stress of the job. 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.679 For example, I had a core belief that I was 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.960 worthless and I was a bad person. There was no 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:15.440 evidence that I was a bad person. That's what I've 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:20.680 learned through my therapist. But I was to write that down, 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:24.240 and I would write down I'm worthless, I'm a bad person, 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:28.520 but I'm not a bad person. But just because I 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:32.800 wrote it down doesn't mean it's true. But as soon 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:35.000 as I heard that she'd written these post it notes, 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:37.560 I was like, well, I've done that because my therapist 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:38.440 told me to do it. 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:42.760 Jenny says it was the death of one particular baby 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:44.639 that scared her the most. 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:48.119 And I was distraught, like it was natural causes, It 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:52.640 wasn't anything like that. But straight away my management was like, well, 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:54.200 why didn't you do this? Why didn't do you know 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:56.120 that you should have done this? You should have done that. 0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:00.199 No support that I've just gone through this mass if 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:04.880 ordeal that was very traumatic. It was just why didn't 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:06.080 you do that? You should have done that, you should 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:09.280 done this. And I sat then and I thought if 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:12.480 there was anything about that. Luckily we did a post 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:17.199 mortem and everything was natural causes, but imagine if it 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:20.320 hadn't been and there'd been something else that they thought 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:23.480 was suspicious. It's just it's not even worth thinking about. 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:26.879 That was like literally like my final I was like, 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:30.399 that's it. I can't do this anymore. It's just too 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:31.000 much now. 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:38.440 Beth, the former neon edtal nurse who retired from the Countess, 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:42.200 knows that Jenny isn't the only nurse who felt that way. 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:46.320 She sees that the Lucy Letbe case created shock waves 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:49.360 through the entire UK healthcare system. 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:49.840 Well. 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:53.840 The tremors we feel today revealed deeper fractures that have 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:59.840 been building for years. We are seeing a profession in fear. Nurses, 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:04.960 doctors and healthcare workers or who've lost their voice, lost 0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:09.160 their confidence in speaking in truth to power, and lost 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:12.800 faith in the very systems designed to protect both patients 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:14.840 and practitioners. 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:18.920 And the tremors they go even further than those who 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:23.840 work within the system, Jenny says. Parents they felt it too. 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:27.720 It's like they stopped trusting us a lot of them. 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:32.120 We've even had parents and family members saying to us like, oh, 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:34.359 you know, we have to be careful now because of Lucy. 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:37.440 Let me Like they've even used her name to us, 0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:40.439 and like things that we used to do without the 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:44.359 parents around now we've had complaints. You can't do that 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:46.480 to my baby without me there. I need to be 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:50.280 watching what you're doing and what you're giving. It makes 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:54.800 you job harder and it makes you feel horrible because 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:58.040 it's like, how can people not trust me with their babies? 0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:01.600 And actually some of the is putting their babies actually 0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:04.560 at more risk. Like I had a mum that refused 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:08.560 to let any nurse near her baby. She would only 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:11.840 let the doctors. And I'm not saying the doctors can't 0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:16.320 do anything, but the things that this baby needed are 0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:19.679 things that the nurses do day in day out, and 0:24:19.720 --> 0:24:22.680 the doctors don't do very often because the nurses do it. 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:24.960 So then all of a sudden she's like, I want 0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:28.200 the doctor to do it, and I try to explain. 0:24:28.320 --> 0:24:30.080 I was like, this is something I do every day. 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:34.000 The doctor will do it. Maybe once every few months, 0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:37.000 but it didn't matter. She didn't want a nurse near 0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:37.560 her baby. 0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:45.240 Nursing shortages are not unique to the UK. Low pay, 0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:50.480 long hours, stressful shifts. It's a common refrain around the world. 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:54.639 But you add the idea of a serial killer nurse 0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:58.520 into the MiGs and for some, especially those that work 0:24:58.520 --> 0:25:01.679 at the Countess Tall is personal. 0:25:02.480 --> 0:25:05.320 One of them said to me, Michelle, if Lucy's innocent, 0:25:05.400 --> 0:25:07.280 we really want her to be acquitted, but. 0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:10.359 Are they going to come after us? So who's going 0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:11.000 to speak out? 0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:13.119 Another one of them said to me, Michelle, you know, 0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:16.280 I'm Sam. We've had eight years of hell. You know 0:25:16.720 --> 0:25:19.960