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Speaker 1: My legacy in sport will never be because I win

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Speaker 1: a medal. It just never will. My legacy and sport

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Speaker 1: will always, I hope, be that I will always fight

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Speaker 1: for sport to be better for people. I can win

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Speaker 1: a gold medal tomorrow and honestly, that matters less than

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Speaker 1: what I did this past November.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, you are listening to episode one two of Hurdle,

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Speaker 2: a wellness focused podcast where I sit down with inspiring

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Speaker 2: individuals to talk about everything from their big wines to

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Speaker 2: how they've gotten through some of life's toughest moments. On

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Speaker 2: the show, what you can expect vulnerability, motivation, and candid

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Speaker 2: discussions with everyone from top athletes to aspiring entrepreneurs on

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Speaker 2: what it really takes to follow your passions. My mission

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Speaker 2: is simple to inspire you to be your best self,

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Speaker 2: move with intention, and have some fun along the way.

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Speaker 2: I'm your host, Emily A Body and this week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I.

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Speaker 3: Am chatting with the runner Mary Caine, another.

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Speaker 2: Top requested episode since she opened up last November to

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Speaker 2: The New York Times about the emotional and physical abuse

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Speaker 2: she received during her time training with the Nike Oregon Project. Now,

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Speaker 2: if you've never heard of the Nike Orgon Project. It's

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Speaker 2: an elite running team, and she ran on the Orgon

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Speaker 2: Project under distance running coach Alberto Salazar. Now, last year,

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Speaker 2: Salazar was handed a four year ban by the US

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Speaker 2: Anti Doping Agency for orchestrating and facilitating prohibited doping conduct.

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Speaker 2: Shortly after that happened, Nike disbanded the Oregon Project.

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Speaker 3: Now let's get back to Mary.

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Speaker 2: For those of you who don't know her history, she

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Speaker 2: excelled at running from a really, really young age. At seventeen,

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Speaker 2: she was already a record breaking phenomenon of sorts. She

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Speaker 2: made the US team for the twenty thirteen World Championships

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Speaker 2: in Moscow and advanced to the fifteen hundred meter final

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Speaker 2: and finished ninth, becoming the youngest person ever to make

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Speaker 2: a world final in the fifteen hundred. In twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 2: she won the three thousand meters at the World Junior

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Speaker 2: Championships and also set a ton of US junior records,

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Speaker 2: also with a mile pr of four minutes twenty four seconds. Y'all,

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Speaker 2: I can't, even, like god, brush my teeth in four

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Speaker 2: minutes in twenty four seconds.

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Speaker 3: But that's that's another story.

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Speaker 2: In today's episode, we talk about what it was like

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Speaker 2: for her to be so successful so early on in

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Speaker 2: the sport and the.

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Speaker 3: Pressures that came hand in hand with that.

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Speaker 2: We talk about her running for Alberto and the hardships

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Speaker 2: that went along with that as well. She talks to

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Speaker 2: me about pressures to lose weight, losing her period, five

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Speaker 2: different bone injuries, self harm, and the series of events

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Speaker 2: that led to her leaving Portland, coming back to New York,

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Speaker 2: and eventually years later, garnering up the courage to speak

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Speaker 2: out and share her truth. We talk about the aftermath

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Speaker 2: of the New York Times article and on a positive note,

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Speaker 2: her new role as the New York community manager for

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Speaker 2: Boston based running company Tracksmith. I've actually had the founder,

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Speaker 2: Matt Taylor of Tracksmith on the show before, so definitely definitely.

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Speaker 3: Give that episode a lesson as well.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, there's a lot of meat in today's episode

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Speaker 2: and a lot to get through. One disclaimer that I

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Speaker 2: will throw into the mix here. We do talk about

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Speaker 2: a lot of sensitive topics today, including disordered eating and

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Speaker 2: self harm, and Mary's is a best in today's episode

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Speaker 2: that for anyone who feels like they may be in

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Speaker 2: a similar situation that they are struggling.

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Speaker 3: You are not alone.

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Speaker 2: I am going to put some helpful resources into the

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Speaker 2: show notes, and as always, I am always here for

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Speaker 2: you as well. You can reach out to me over

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Speaker 2: email directly at Emily at Hurdle dot us. Now, before

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Speaker 2: we get into today's episode, I do want to take

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Speaker 2: a moment to give some love to my sponsor, Athletic Greens.

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Speaker 3: I am on the move right now.

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Speaker 2: I'm actually taking a little a week away from New

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Speaker 2: York in Rhode Island, and what I will say about

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Speaker 2: being here is one, it is so relaxing. I feel

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Speaker 2: like I finally have some time to just breathe a

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Speaker 2: little bit. But of course, going hand in hand with

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Speaker 2: traveling comes eating all the things, maybe, drinking all the things, maybe.

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Speaker 2: And that's why, especially when I'm on the road, there

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Speaker 2: is nothing I love more than starting my day by

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Speaker 2: shaking up a bottle of Athletic Greens. And that's because

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Speaker 2: it gives me not only that anti accident equivalent of

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Speaker 2: twelve servings of fruits and vegetables, but it just makes

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Speaker 2: me feel better and it helps me kick start my

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Speaker 2: nutrition and my day in the right direction. Each serving

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Speaker 2: dandelion root and swayromina. Plus, it just tastes good, especially

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Speaker 2: ice cold. I shake it up with a few ice cubes.

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Speaker 2: It's refreshing, just the right amount of sweetness and nothing

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Speaker 2: had in the past. They have an awesome deal for

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Speaker 2: the Hurdle community. You've got to take advantage of it.

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Speaker 2: It is twenty travel packs a seventy nine dollars value,

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Speaker 2: to athleticgreens dot com slash Hurdle Again, that's Athleticgreens dot

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Speaker 2: com slash Hurdle to get yours.

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Speaker 3: Today, no code necessary.

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Speaker 2: If you like what you're listening to as well, please

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Speaker 2: make sure to share this episode with a friend or

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Speaker 2: post about it over on social media and tag me

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Speaker 2: at Hurdle podcast and at Emily a Body. Also two

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Speaker 2: last little bits of housekeeping. One, if you have not

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Speaker 2: subscribed yet for the Weekly Hurdle, please make sure to

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Speaker 2: do that as well links in the show notes. And lastly,

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Speaker 2: I love sharing photos from the hurdle community on social media.

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Speaker 2: So if you have a photo of you tackling a hurdle,

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Speaker 2: going after something you want, listening to an episode, whatever

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Speaker 2: it might be, send it my way. Let me be

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Speaker 2: your hype man, and I think that's it with that,

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Speaker 2: Let's get to hurdling.

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Speaker 3: Today.

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Speaker 2: I am sitting down with Mary Caine. She is a

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Speaker 2: runner and she's also the newest team member over at

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Speaker 2: tracks Good afternoon. I have to like check the clock

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Speaker 2: and see what's.

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Speaker 3: Going on here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, one o'clock my time.

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited to have you here. Why don't we

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Speaker 2: kick things off today. I just mentioned your new role

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Speaker 2: at Tracksmith. Why don't you fill me in on what

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Speaker 2: that looks like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's kind of Today's actually a kind of

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Speaker 1: fun day for me because it's my thirtieth day on

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Speaker 1: the job. So I've been here a full month. So

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Speaker 1: I'm going to have a check in with my managers

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Speaker 1: just to see how everything's going, how my work's been

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Speaker 1: for the past month. But yeah, everything's been going really well.

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Speaker 1: It's been I think a blessing to not only have

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to represent such an amazing brand, but also

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Speaker 1: to really kind of have that space during COVID to

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Speaker 1: be able to sit down and kind of work on

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Speaker 1: other stuff and not feel maybe the same stress and

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Speaker 1: pressure that there's no races happening right now, because I

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Speaker 1: realize that my role within the company is more than

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Speaker 1: just me wearing a uniform on me.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people listening right now have all different backgrounds,

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Speaker 2: whether they're runners or not runners. But a lot of

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Speaker 2: people became familiar with your name if they weren't already

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Speaker 2: last November when you shared a powerful op ed in

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Speaker 2: the New York Times.

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Speaker 3: What I would love to do is.

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Speaker 2: Talk us all the way through before we get to that,

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Speaker 2: I want to start all the way at the beginning.

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Speaker 2: Why don't we kick things off with you really talking

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Speaker 2: to me about where you grew up and what life

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Speaker 2: was like from a young age.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I grew up in Westchester County, which is just

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Speaker 1: north of New York City. So I've lived within the

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Speaker 1: New York area for really my whole life, beside a

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Speaker 1: one year stint elsewhere. And I grew up in a

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Speaker 1: family of four girls, and I'm the second oldest daughter,

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Speaker 1: and growing up we were those too, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, many different things, like I remember when I.

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Speaker 1: Was four, I took ballet and I was on a

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Speaker 1: youth soccer league, and swimming was kind of my main

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Speaker 1: passion out of all the different kind of after school

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Speaker 1: activities I did, and I think I would go to

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Speaker 1: maybe like three to four practices a week, and it

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Speaker 1: was a really amazing experience kind of growing up though

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Speaker 1: with all sisters, because I never felt like I couldn't

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Speaker 1: be an athlete, you know. Over the summer, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: would watch the men's.

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Speaker 4: World Cup for soccer, but we'd also watch.

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Speaker 1: The women's and during the Olympics, I had Michael Phelps

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Speaker 1: to cheer for, but there was also Jenny Thompson and

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Speaker 1: so I never really felt like there was a cap

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Speaker 1: on my potential just because I was a girl, because

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Speaker 1: in so many ways that was you know, the people

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Speaker 1: who I was surrounded with day in and day out.

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Speaker 1: And I really fell in love with competition and sport,

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Speaker 1: and I think from an early age though being a

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Speaker 1: very competitive kid, I really enjoyed having a sport like

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Speaker 1: swimming because it's an individual sport. Most events you do,

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Speaker 1: similar to track, are on your own, but there's also

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Speaker 1: team aspects. Swimming in relays was probably both the event

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Speaker 1: I would get the most nervous for and also the

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Speaker 1: most excited for because I would have three other girls

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Speaker 1: on the blocks waiting for me to try to swim

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Speaker 1: as fast as I can so that we would do well.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, growing up, I really was more exposed to

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Speaker 1: like other sports. I ran, but like in the same

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Speaker 1: way that I think most people do at a young age,

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Speaker 1: which is like your gym coach tells you to run

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Speaker 1: a lap of the track during recess or something, and

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Speaker 1: I was probably the one kid who got really into

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Speaker 1: that one lap and I would know as fast as

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Speaker 1: I could, and I always wanted to be the fastest

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Speaker 1: person in the class. And I don't really know why,

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Speaker 1: but that was really my first exposure to running, and

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Speaker 1: just after, you know, kind of years of maybe dominating

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Speaker 1: my elementary school class, which was only one hundred kids,

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Speaker 1: so not particularly impressive, I decided in seventh grade, after

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Speaker 1: kind of some encouragement from like gym teachers and my parents,

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Speaker 1: to try out for seventh grade outdoor track and field,

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Speaker 1: And that season was really the first time I did

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Speaker 1: any like I'm going to do quotes here proper training,

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Speaker 1: and I put quotes because I mean I was probably

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Speaker 1: running like fifteen twenty miles a week or something. But

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Speaker 1: I qualified for the state meet the three thousand meters

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Speaker 1: and I was the youngest person on the team on

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Speaker 1: our national four by mile relay, and I think it

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Speaker 1: just kind of set a fire under me and it

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Speaker 1: just made me love running in a way that yes,

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Speaker 1: I had tapped into doing those gym class one lappers,

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Speaker 1: but I had this whole other world of racing miles

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Speaker 1: and eight hundreds and three k's that I had never

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Speaker 1: really been properly exposed to.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of crazy to think about being that age

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Speaker 2: and being in a place where you're running twenty miles

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Speaker 2: a week. When I started running, I was running a

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Speaker 2: half mile every day, and it was so hard. So

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Speaker 2: to have like that natural talent at such a young

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Speaker 2: age and have so much promise, that's I don't know,

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Speaker 2: it's exciting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I loved it, and I loved having

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Speaker 1: At the end of every school year, we would have

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Speaker 1: this like one or two week long after school program

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Speaker 1: and it was probably like five evenings of the whole

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Speaker 1: entire school year where I would do what I thought

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Speaker 1: was running training, which in retrospect, I mean I was

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Speaker 1: like high jumping and long.

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Speaker 4: Jumping, so it wasn't really true training.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why, but I guess just I'd become

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Speaker 1: kind of like known within the town of being like

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Speaker 1: a bit of a talent and running, and sometimes some

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Speaker 1: of like the older students would come out and like

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Speaker 1: try to pace me for like a one k cross

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Speaker 1: country race, or I you know, time triald a mile

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Speaker 1: as a sixth grader and ran like five forty seven

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Speaker 1: And I didn't really understood what that meant beyond just

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Speaker 1: knowing that I ran faster than I did the year before.

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Speaker 1: But some coaches were just probably knew a little bit

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Speaker 1: better than me and were very impressed and very encouraging,

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Speaker 1: and so to me, it was always such a natural

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Speaker 1: progression from year to year of just adding a little

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Speaker 1: bit more. And I think just looking back, I was helped,

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Speaker 1: like my my Negaivete in so many ways was beneficial

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Speaker 1: because I wasn't reading articles as a ten year old

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Speaker 1: about you know, older athletes training. I only had myself

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Speaker 1: to compare to, and it was just as a result,

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Speaker 1: a really natural, you know, each year a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a bigger step. Really, from the time I was

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Speaker 1: a seventh grader to a senior in high school.

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Speaker 2: When do you think during that journey that you started

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Speaker 2: to really comprehend how good of a runner that you were.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously it goes from probably a time that's like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, this is so fun to a little

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Speaker 2: bit more of wow, like there's some pressure here to perform.

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Speaker 1: So the first time I ever felt like real pressure

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Speaker 1: was in eighth grade. I the year before had qualified

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Speaker 1: for the three thousand meters at the state meet as

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Speaker 1: a seventh grader. And how New York works is there's

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Speaker 1: like a D one race and a D two race,

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Speaker 1: and D two is for smaller schools. And I qualified

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Speaker 1: through that and I ended up going to the state meet.

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Speaker 1: My shoe fell off midway through the race, but I

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Speaker 1: still meddled. I was maybe like sixth in the state

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Speaker 1: for small schools. And going into that eighth grad qualifying race,

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Speaker 1: there were two girls who were seated faster than me,

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Speaker 1: and I remember being so nervous, and I honestly just

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Speaker 1: like blew that race because I went onto the line

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Speaker 1: having like no faith in myself to make it and

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Speaker 1: feeling such an immense amount of pressure to do, like

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Speaker 1: to make that same leap that I had the year

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Speaker 1: before and qualify, and only the top two girls would go,

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Speaker 1: and I came in third, and like way way back

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Speaker 1: in third, and I just remember being so mad at

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Speaker 1: myself after the race. And I think the reason that

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Speaker 1: I just felt that pressure was a lot of people

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Speaker 1: were kind of, you know, just already starting to put

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Speaker 1: like in the exterior kind of side of things, a

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Speaker 1: lot of pressure on me, and not my parents, like

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Speaker 1: they couldn't have cared less. And I was anyway going

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Speaker 1: to the state meet on the four by eighteen, so

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Speaker 1: it was and like I didn't have an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: compete there. But I think that was my first experience

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Speaker 1: of like really feeling pressure. And I walked away from

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Speaker 1: that race realizing that I could never ever do that again.

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Speaker 1: Because the truth is, the reason I was disappointed in

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Speaker 1: myself wasn't because I didn't make the state meet. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't because I came in third. It was because I

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Speaker 1: just ran scared and I realized that had I really

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Speaker 1: done the best that I could and still come in third,

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Speaker 1: I could have been at least proud of the race.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that kind of experience of just

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Speaker 1: like feeling a lot of pressure for my coach and

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Speaker 1: you know, from teammates. Just made me realize that you

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Speaker 1: can't get so in your head. And so I think

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Speaker 1: that really did help me kind of going into high school.

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Speaker 2: Then the next year, the lesson that you learned that

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Speaker 2: day that hey, like I just can't show up scared,

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Speaker 2: I have to show up and give it my all.

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Speaker 3: How valuable is that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And I would be lying if I said that that

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Speaker 1: was a one, undone lesson I've been.

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Speaker 4: Get anybody who read my.

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Speaker 1: New York Times off ed and watch the video realize

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Speaker 1: that I fell into that cycle of a mindset again

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Speaker 1: later in life. But I think the reason that I

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Speaker 1: was almost so fearless throughout high school was because, yes,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to win. Yes I wanted to set a record.

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Speaker 1: Yes I wanted to be the best that I could.

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Speaker 1: But the truth is, some of the races I'm most

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Speaker 1: proud of are the times that I came in fifth.

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Speaker 1: It's the time I just missed out on something. It's

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Speaker 1: the moment where it wasn't just like a clear cut,

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Speaker 1: obvious w for the day. That are sometimes the moments

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Speaker 1: that I think I got the most out of myself

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Speaker 1: and are the most proud of myself.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: I remember after qualifying for the World Championship team in

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, I was second across the line, and afterwards

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Speaker 1: there were a lot of people who were like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: are you disappointed you didn't win, And I was like,

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Speaker 1: what do you talk talking about. I killed myself to

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Speaker 1: get to the line of the house as I could.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I made a team.

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Speaker 1: That is all that I cared about in that moment.

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Speaker 1: And so to me, it's just, you know, I kind

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Speaker 1: of realized that probably just my natural competitiveness, my natural

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Speaker 1: kind of desire to please other people is something that

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Speaker 1: predisposes me to sometimes go into those more nervous, more

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Speaker 1: negative headspaces. But I just always have to turn it

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Speaker 1: back to that eighth grade girl who was kicking herself,

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Speaker 1: not because she didn't make the team, but because she

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Speaker 1: didn't try.

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Speaker 2: When you talk about repping the United States at the

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Speaker 2: World Championships in that race that got you there, I mean,

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Speaker 2: what a time?

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Speaker 3: Was that just absolutely surreal?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, in truth, I felt on that day

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Speaker 1: that I had to make that team, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know why, but I just felt. I was like, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people watching right now. Who if I

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Speaker 1: can cross that line top three, make that team, It's

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Speaker 1: just going to mean a lot to a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: And I wasn't really thinking of my team or my

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Speaker 1: family even when I say that, But just like younger

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Speaker 1: athletes like I wanted to show people that you can

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Speaker 1: be seventeen and kick some butt and be powerful and

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Speaker 1: be strong, and so going into it, even though I

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Speaker 1: was so nervous, as soon as I got out onto

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Speaker 1: the track, there was just such a piece in me

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Speaker 1: because I was like, I'm gonna do it. I know

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Speaker 1: what to do, I know how to run, and let's

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Speaker 1: just push as hard as you can. And so I

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Speaker 1: remember with a lap to go, I was like, with

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Speaker 1: one lap to go, you're gonna be in the lead.

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Speaker 4: And I just ran.

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Speaker 1: Like a bad out of hell, trying to hold it

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Speaker 1: as long as I could, and that last fifty meters

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Speaker 1: hurt so bad. But crossing that line was just like

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Speaker 1: probably one of the greater moments of my career because

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Speaker 1: I knew it, you know, me making that team me

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Speaker 1: and more than just like one person crossing a line.

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Speaker 4: And second, it kind of had a deeper meaning to it.

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Speaker 2: You talk about this idea of knowing your purpose and

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Speaker 2: knowing that you just had to And I think at

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Speaker 2: so many different points, for so many different people, we

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Speaker 2: all feel this sense of this is what we're supposed

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Speaker 2: to do. But how do you pursue these moments from

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Speaker 2: a mental standpoint to the best of your ability? I

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Speaker 2: think sometimes we just like psych ourselves out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's changed over time. I think

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Speaker 1: with age, you know, like a young age, there's an

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Speaker 1: innocence to you, and so there's just this feeling of

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Speaker 1: like invincibility that I don't know, do I ever like

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Speaker 1: fully want to get back. And it's not to say

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be able to line up on

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Speaker 1: a start line and know like I can win this.

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Speaker 4: I have that ability.

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Speaker 1: But it's more I think that came from such an

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Speaker 1: in certain ways outcome perspective that like the goal was

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Speaker 1: to win. I was there to win, I'm trying to win,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, I came in second, and I was really

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Speaker 1: happy to be able to do that and like that kind.

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Speaker 4: Of like achieved the main goal and I was just

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Speaker 4: so proud.

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Speaker 1: But I don't feel in that race I was necessarily

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Speaker 1: thinking of the process. You know, during workouts, I was

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Speaker 1: probably picturing myself crossing the line and winning, and that

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Speaker 1: visualization is great, but there was never kind of a like,

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Speaker 1: you know, sitting down and thinking of the why behind

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Speaker 1: a workout. So because I always thought of the outcome,

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Speaker 1: I maybe didn't do as well in my training of

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Speaker 1: kind of like compartmentalizing things. If things weren't going well,

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Speaker 1: I'd maybe be a little bit more hard on myself,

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Speaker 1: a little bit more down on myself. And that's not

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Speaker 1: to say I'm like perfect with that now. I still

393
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Speaker 1: sometimes will kick myself if I do something wrong in

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Speaker 1: a workout or something I perceive is wrong. But I

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Speaker 1: guess I just try to think of things a little

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Speaker 1: bit more as like stepping stones. So rather than feeling

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Speaker 1: like me having a slower run or not quite hitting

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Speaker 1: the times means I can't achieve a goal, instead I

399
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Speaker 1: reframe it to just like this is one step closer

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Speaker 1: now to getting there.

401
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Speaker 2: I think a lot of the time also, like we

402
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 2: let these hurdles are the hurdle moments that we experience

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Speaker 2: kind of sidetrack us. I mean, please, there's so much

404
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,360
Speaker 2: that so many individuals are going through right now that

405
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 2: things feel difficult and hard, and it's like we don't

406
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 2: know the right way to get over the hurdle, or

407
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 2: we walk to this one experience and it feels difficult

408
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 2: and it's like can I get through this? But what

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Speaker 2: you're saying is that these moments that are difficult or

410
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Speaker 2: the things that aren't going as you had hoped, are

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Speaker 2: teachable moments, right, yes.

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Speaker 1: And of course in the moment sometimes I am like,

413
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Speaker 1: I know this is a teaching moment, but I'm not

414
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Speaker 1: handling as well. But in general, when like I said,

415
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Speaker 1: back down and I kind of like go through the

416
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 1: processes that I'm really supposed to, like you know, doing

417
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: my breathing or you know, doing journaling or stuff like that,

418
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: I can always kind of just sit down and remember that,

419
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Speaker 1: you know, I think as a young athlete, I thought

420
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Speaker 1: straining was how you got to the top level.

421
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 4: Like grinding it out, pushing all the time, and.

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Speaker 1: There's something really powerful about being able to bring yourself

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Speaker 1: to that edge kind of every day. But the older

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Speaker 1: I've gotten, the more I kind of think of the

425
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: arthured Lideard saying of you know, you're trying to train,

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Speaker 1: not strain, and I kind of think about that then,

427
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: even just like a reflecting upon workouts where if things

428
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Speaker 1: don't go perfect, if I feel like I had a

429
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: little bit left in the tank or I missed a

430
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: split here or there, I'm just like, training is about

431
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: putting in the work to get to the day, not

432
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Speaker 1: having that all out race effort every single day.

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Speaker 2: I think it's also because that's of being on the

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Speaker 2: edge of pushing yourself. It's exhilarating, right, it's exciting. It's like, Wow,

435
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 2: I just crushed that workout, and I feel invincible. But

436
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 2: I mean if you're getting to that tipping point every

437
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 2: single day, then sooner or later, as you certainly experienced,

438
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 2: and we'll get to like you get to the breaking point.

439
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And I you know, I think for me,

440
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 1: what a lot of kind of the maybe training philosophies

441
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: that I've learned over the last few years always comes

442
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: back down to patients where I think, as a young athlete,

443
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,719
Speaker 1: you know, most people haven't had an injury at a

444
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: certain age, and so they maybe haven't had to.

445
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 4: Go through rehab processes.

446
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: And have to analyze their you know, biomechanical imbalances that

447
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: have developed through injury, and so just so many things

448
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: come very easy at a young age and I'm twenty four,

449
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: so I know I will probably you know, later in

450
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 1: my career, like, oh my god, what were you complaining

451
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: about then? But I think there's always just has to

452
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: be a knowledge that every year is going to be

453
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 1: a little different, every cycle is going to be a

454
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: little bit different, and that's okay. Change is what makes

455
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: you better, it's what makes you faster at what makes

456
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: you actually able to make improvements year to year. And

457
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: I think at a like, as a younger athlete, change

458
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 1: that wasn't just super linear felt very scary. You know,

459
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: things like adding five miles a week seemed like.

460
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 4: An easy way to change.

461
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: But now I'm trying to kind of learn other methods

462
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: that maybe aren't just the obvious, you know, AD five,

463
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: AD ten, ad fifteen miles a week, because you have

464
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: to be kind of cognizant of all the other things

465
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: that go into your training and all the other kind

466
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: of risks, and you know, maybe realize that your redline

467
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: now you're probably straddling a little closer than maybe your

468
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: younger age self knew how to straddle.

469
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 2: When you say that change is scary, I mean that

470
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 2: applies across the board, right, It applies everywhere it's sometimes

471
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 2: we get so comfortable with how things have been that

472
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 2: when things shift and there is a noticeable difference in

473
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: our day to day, it's frightening and it's uncomfortable. But

474
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: from those moments of discomfort, again going back to this

475
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 2: idea that you have an opportunity to learn from them.

476
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 2: Like no one you know shows up to these scary

477
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: moments and it's like, oh my god, I'm so amped

478
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 2: to be scared out of my mind right now. But

479
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 2: ten times out of ten, that moment again, it teaches

480
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 2: you how to be a better person and in your

481
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 2: case with what we're talking about here, also a better runner.

482
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

483
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I mean I've always felt that if you're not

484
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: able to kind of sit down at the end of

485
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: the day and reflect on the good, the bad and

486
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: the in between throughout not just your past day, but

487
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: week or training cycle or you know, personal life, then

488
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 1: you're not trying to be better. And to me, in

489
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: so many ways, just the you know, not to sound cliche,

490
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: but the journey of life is just trying to see

491
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: how good I can be in my relationships, in my careers.

492
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 4: In my running.

493
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 1: And so for me, it's like to be able to

494
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: sit down and just reflect on what needs to be

495
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: changed is really the most important part of your day,

496
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes you might want to push against

497
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: it a little bit because the status quo is easy

498
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 1: and it's safe, and you know, I know I'm kind

499
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: of like a creature of habit and somebody who in

500
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: the past has had trouble kind of getting myself out

501
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: of uncomfortable situations because it's kind of like the idea

502
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: of inertia, where a body in motion stays in motion,

503
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: or a body at rest stays at rest, And you know,

504
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: I think I'm somebody who's it's very easy for me

505
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: to stay locked into something even if it's not working.

506
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: And the you know, biggest challenge I've kind of faced

507
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: entering into adulthood and you know, continuing on in my

508
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: journey is being able to face having to make changes.

509
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 2: So talk to me about what it was like to

510
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 2: be at World Championships.

511
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: It was a really just incredible experience. I went for

512
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: the whole World Championship. I was my event was in

513
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: the first half of the meet, but I stayed for

514
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: the second half because I just wanted to be able

515
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: to experience the whole meet and go as a fan

516
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: of the sport and cheer on Team USA and be

517
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: able to see a little bit of the city and

518
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: it was incredible.

519
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 4: I mean I remember.

520
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: Being able to watch like Matthew Centrowitz compete and win

521
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: a medal, and that was just so incredible. And to

522
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: be able to be a part of Team USA and

523
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: kind of meet the other teammates. I mean, I remember

524
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: I would go to all the team meetings and just

525
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: be so excited, and every time we went to lunch,

526
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: I would try to like sit at a new table

527
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: and talk to different athletes because you know, not only

528
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: was I their teammate, but I was there, you know,

529
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: a fan of theirs and a fan of the sport,

530
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: and it was just it was just one of those

531
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: moments where it's like I would never like, I wouldn't

532
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: be able to write a book on all of the

533
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: different conversations I had and moments I shared with people there,

534
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: because there's just too.

535
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 4: Many to count.

536
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: And there's something that is really incredible about kind of

537
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: getting to know people in a setting like that. As

538
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: you know, American athletes, we often travel to a lot

539
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: of the same meets and you kind of get to

540
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: like see people at airports and be like, hey, we're

541
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: the only people who like speak English, Like we're gonna

542
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,239
Speaker 1: sit together on the plane, and you know, you just

543
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: develop these relationships and these friendships that you know, it's

544
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: the people who in so many ways were like kind

545
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: to me and sat down with me at that meet

546
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: that I still am like a passionate fan of even

547
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: to this day. And their character was such that they

548
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: were nice to the probably annoying seventeen year old who

549
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: was just like trying to take pictures even though they

550
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: didn't have an iPhone and was probably really annoying and

551
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: asked weird questions. But there was just so many very

552
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: kind people there who really took me under their wing

553
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: and you know, cheered for me. And I think a

554
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: lot of people there were surprised when I made the

555
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: final of the World I think something, well, we thought

556
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: you'd get out early. But you know, it was really

557
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: incredible just having that like support of you know, people

558
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: who became your team.

559
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 3: Talk to me about telling the line for the final.

560
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 4: I was terrified.

561
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: I did not, I mean in retrospect, like I think

562
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: I was very harsh on myself afterwards. I was tenth

563
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: I think in the heats and the Semis. Even though

564
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: I advanced both times, I did not run a smart race,

565
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: and either the Semis they did a little bit better,

566
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,479
Speaker 1: but both events, if you like watch my race, I

567
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: am all over the place the whole time, and there

568
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: was a lot of like going into lane three and

569
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: getting cut off, and just a lot of wasted energy

570
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: that I think I went into the final absolutely exhausted,

571
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: and even though I was trying to will my legs

572
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: to move faster, I just didn't really have it in me.

573
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: But I remember being so scared in the like you know,

574
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: kind of room beforehand in the call room, and the

575
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: woman who ended up winning a bit of araga, we

576
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: like got up for a minute and like went into

577
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: the corner and I don't know, maybe I was the

578
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: only one watching her, but she just like threw up everywhere,

579
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: and I just remember like kind of stifling a laugh

580
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: because I was like, oh, okay, we're all feeling this

581
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: right now.

582
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 3: It was not just me surprised.

583
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: We're elite athletes and we're really tired because we just

584
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 2: did an extraordinary thing.

585
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: But I remember being honestly, like immediately afterwards, pretty disappointed

586
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: because I just felt like I had this amazing opportunity

587
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: to toe the line, and you know, ended up only

588
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: being two people in the field, and I think at

589
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: least one or two people have been like popped since

590
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: for drugs. Although I mean the winner was but I

591
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: don't think her title was taken away because it you know,

592
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: I guess like the timing wasn't right or something like that.

593
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: But I just remember kind of like as everybody blew

594
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: by me being like, I don't have anything.

595
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, when did you?

596
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: I mean, now you have to take a step back

597
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 2: and be able to be proud of that performance. Right,

598
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: So when do you think that that switch flip for you?

599
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: Oh? I think within like a day, because I remember

600
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: like one of the women in the kind of cool

601
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: down room afterwards, like you know, came over to me

602
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: because I was getting a little bit upset, and she

603
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: was like, hey, I came in fourth, Like the fact

604
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: that you were in the final is just incredible, and

605
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: she's like, but also the fact that you're upset about

606
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: it is pretty cool. She's like, She's like, it says

607
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: a lot about you that you're like a little bit upset.

608
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: I was like, thank but yeah, By the next day,

609
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: like just watching other teammates of Tmosa Metal and being

610
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: able to watch the races and explore the city. You know,

611
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: it was it was the sort of thing where I

612
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: was just like happy and appreciative to be there. And so,

613
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: you know, I think any competitor will understand that. Like,

614
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: sometimes you'll have.

615
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 4: A really good race.

616
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: And you know, your friends, your family, and your teammates

617
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: will all be like, good job, that's amazing, congrats, and

618
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: there's that kind of fire under you that's like, yeah,

619
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: but I kind of feel like I could do more.

620
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: And sometimes that's really good because it just kind of

621
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: gets you out there the next day to run hard again.

622
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: So, also in twenty thirteen, you joined Nike's Oregon Projects

623
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 2: run by Alberta Salazar. Talk to me about what that

624
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 2: was like for you. I mean, was this what you

625
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 2: thought would be making it so to speak at that

626
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 2: time in your career.

627
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.

628
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: I so kind of to give a little bit of background,

629
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: I had first started working with Alberto a year before

630
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: I went pro in the fall of twenty twelve. He

631
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: reached out to me and we started working together because

632
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: just that past summer I's at the National Record in

633
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 1: the fifteen hundred. So it wasn't like totally out of nowhere,

634
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: but I was so excited and it was like a

635
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: dream come true to work with such an incredible program.

636
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: And within a year I made a World Championship team

637
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 1: and you know, was not only on the team, but

638
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: in the final and came in tenth, and so I

639
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: was already kind of achieving things that like, you know,

640
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,720
Speaker 1: professional level athletes dream to achieve.

641
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 4: And so I went, you know, kind of that.

642
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: First year working with Alberto through it as an amateur.

643
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: I kind of paid my own way. It was, I

644
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: was trying to preserve my ncaaligibility. And then in the

645
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: fall of twenty thirteen, and I actually only took one

646
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 1: recruiting visit, and I just realized that I really wanted

647
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: to run, and I really wanted to give it the

648
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: best shot that I could. And for me, at the

649
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: level that I had already achieved, I felt the next

650
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: step was going pro because I was already kind of

651
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: competing at that level, and you know, I wanted to

652
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: have the opportunities that came with being a pro, and

653
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 1: in truth, I also wanted to have the in my mind,

654
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: what I thought was protection by being pro, because I

655
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: was cognizant even at the time that like, you know,

656
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: people get hurt, things happen, people's careers, ebbs and flow.

657
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: And I thought having a sponsor supporting me versus maybe

658
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: something like an NCAA system might like mean more protection

659
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: because I would have more financial support. There would be

660
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: no risk of having you know, like almost a rough

661
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: college career and then you know, almost having no financial

662
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: safety net at forwards to continue to pursue running at

663
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: my own time. And so for me, it was kind

664
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: of ultimately a no brainer to go pro. And I

665
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: was already working with Alberto and so of course the

666
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: next step was joining that team. So yeah, that's kind

667
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 1: of how that happened.

668
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: What did that look like at first for you, like,

669
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: talk to me about what it was like to be

670
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 2: a part of the Oregon project.

671
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 4: At first?

672
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: It was incredible. I mean, this is like picture your

673
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: favorite sports team and having the head coach call you

674
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: up and say like, hey, I think you have the

675
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: opportunity to be the best in the world, come join

676
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 1: my team. Like that was literally what it was for me.

677
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 4: And I was, you know.

678
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: On a team where there were metalists, there were people

679
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: who had American records. You know, it was at the

680
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: time considered.

681
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 4: The best of the best.

682
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: And I was at the time a high school junior

683
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: and senior, and I was living in New York while

684
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: the team was based in Portland. So for me, it

685
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: was like this little like other world that I was

686
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: a part of because my day to day life, I

687
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: was not with the program. I was with my you know,

688
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 1: high school classmates. I was with my coach here who

689
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: oversaw my training. So probably like nine to ten months.

690
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 4: Out of the year, I.

691
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: Was not interacting face to face with the team. Any

692
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: interaction was just over like phone, call, email, something like that.

693
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: And then for those occasional weekend trips or you know,

694
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: during the summer racing season or during a couple altitude

695
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: training camps, that was when I kind of had like

696
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: full time exposure to the team. And because they were

697
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: always just such short little experiences, and I think just

698
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: because I was like young and so excited and kind

699
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: of a fangirl of everybody, it just felt like, you know,

700
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: these just incredible little camps that I was taking, and

701
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: you know, I stoked it all in and was probably

702
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: overly eager.

703
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: What was it like, I mean, I know you worked

704
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 2: with John Henwood and he's a good friend of you

705
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 2: and still a coach to this day. So talk to

706
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: me about what it was like to be working with

707
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 2: him here while there was just so much that you

708
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: were removed from. At the time, it was great, it

709
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 2: was excellent.

710
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think in retrospect I appreciate it more

711
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: now than I did at the time, because at the time,

712
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: you know, you're like some punk, you know, sixteen seventeen

713
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: year old who's like I've you know, been at the

714
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: World Champs, like I work with Alberto, you know, like

715
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: I want to like win the Olympics, I want to

716
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: train with my teammates, and you know, you're kind of

717
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: there's almost this like part of you that's like, oh,

718
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: like I already want to be out there, and you

719
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 1: have trouble maybe appreciating.

720
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 4: What you have in the moment.

721
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes I kind of had that with

722
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: John where it wasn't like an outward thing, but inwardly,

723
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: like there was just this part of me that was

724
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: so excited to go away for college and to join that.

725
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: But looking back, I'm like, oh gosh, Like he he

726
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 1: buffered me for two years. He gave me that opportunity

727
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 1: to like develop at the pace I needed to. He

728
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: Ad just did things when you know, the training was

729
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,240
Speaker 1: too outrageous. He was, you know, kind of that barrier

730
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: for me that I think, inadvertently, you know, kind of

731
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: protected me from a lot of the things happening.

732
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 4: Like sooner.

733
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 3: What changes after those two years then?

734
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: So you know, I've thought about this kind of over

735
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: the last maybe you know, a couple of years or so,

736
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: and I think the turning point for me was after

737
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: the US Indoor Championships in twenty fourteen. I won the

738
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: fifteen hundred meters, but right afterwards I had a stress

739
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 1: fracture a stress reaction in my shin, and for about

740
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: a week I trained through it. And you know, at

741
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 1: the time, I was so like, oh, this stuff happens.

742
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 1: But you know, in retrospect, I think I was already

743
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: kind of like inadvertently getting into some of the things

744
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: that was like predisposing me to bone injuries. At the time,

745
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: I wasn't really training that high with mileage, but I

746
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: think it was like my body's way of being like,

747
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: you you need to go through puberty, think you have

748
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: to develop, And so I had this stress reaction, and

749
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: I trained lacrosse, trained like a mad woman for like,

750
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: you know, six weeks, eight weeks.

751
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 4: Whatever it was.

752
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: And during that time, I think my body like that

753
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: was the moment where my body started to bite me

754
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: a little bit, and I had no like I did

755
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: not have a bad, reallyationship with food at the time.

756
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: There was nothing like that. I think these were just

757
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: like very normal changes that a lot of girls, you know,

758
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: go through. But I think if you look at pictures

759
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: of me from when I won USA Indoors to when

760
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 1: I won World Juniors, it's probably like a three or

761
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: four month different. But I look like somebody who's developing

762
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: into a woman versus being a teenage girl. And to me,

763
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: I like had no you know, body image issues at

764
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: the time, and so I was like completely blind to it.

765
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: Like I wasn't looking at pictures of myself and noticing any.

766
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 4: Sort of difference.

767
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,479
Speaker 1: And my training, as soon as the injury went away,

768
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: was going amazing. I mean I ended up coming in second,

769
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: you know outdoor usas to Jenny winning World Juniors. Like

770
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: in my mind, things were going really really well. But

771
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: language started to change towards me and in this kind.

772
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 4: Of originally a lot of it.

773
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: Was like you're not fit, You're not fit, and there

774
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: was no blatant like you know, like what that was

775
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: code for, So I think as a naive kid, I

776
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: just was like, oh, like, I gotta get faster, I

777
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 1: gotta get stronger, and I kept pushing like harder and

778
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: harder in training. And it wasn't until after I won

779
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 1: World Juniors that Alberto sat me down and was like,

780
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: you're too heavy to be able to compete on the

781
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: international stage. You're not going to travel to Europe with

782
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 1: the team, even though I just won World Juniors with

783
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: second usas and most of my teammates were going off

784
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: to Europe for like the summer season, and I was

785
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: told that I was not going to go because I

786
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: needed to stay in Portland before my school year there

787
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: had even started, so that I could catch up to

788
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: everybody else, drop some weight and get fit enough to

789
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: maybe like salvage the season with a little bit of

790
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: like a road racing season. And this conversation kind of

791
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: came up because the day before World Juniors Alberto had

792
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 1: asked me to do to buy one hundred meters just

793
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: like you know, kind of pre race strides, and he

794
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: asked me for both of them to break thirteen seconds,

795
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: and I ran twelve five for both.

796
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 4: So I did what I was suposed to do.

797
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: And you know, the day after World Juniors, Alberta told

798
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: me that the reason he told me to do that

799
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: was because he wanted he like thought I wouldn't be

800
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 1: able to break thirteen and therefore he was going to

801
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: have a conversation with me the day before my World

802
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: Juniors race, explaining that he thought I wasn't able to

803
00:43:51,760 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: run fast because I was too heavy.

804
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,120
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805
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:07,160
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810
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811
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819
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,120
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820
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,200
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821
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,640
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822
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:07,680
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823
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824
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,840
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825
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,239
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826
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,240
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827
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831
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843
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 2: for you must have just been so confusing because you

844
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 2: were kicking butt.

845
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and it was.

846
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 1: But I think like I also was so trusting that

847
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: to me, I was like, Okay, well my prs four

848
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 1: oh four, and yes I was second at USA's but

849
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 1: I only ran four oh six and I was too

850
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: young to realize that. You know, that might like two

851
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 1: seconds in a championship style race doesn't really mean much.

852
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: But I think I was just so like, oh, he

853
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: must see something I don't like. He's a professional, he knows.

854
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 4: What he's doing.

855
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: You know, the assistant coaches are agreeing, like, he's probably right.

856
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: So rather than kind of maybe having the like wherewithal

857
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: that maybe an older athlete would have, I was just like, Okay,

858
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 1: I will do that. And so over the course of

859
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: that summer, I drop weight really quickly. I had probably

860
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,959
Speaker 1: been like, my guess is like one hundred and twenty

861
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: one hundred twenty one pounds and I dropped down to

862
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: one thirteen within like you know, maybe six weeks or something. Wow,

863
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: And you know, I I ran fifth af mile and

864
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: I look at pictures from that race and I just

865
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: cringe because I look like death, Like I have dark

866
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: circles under my eyes. I just look like greasy to me,

867
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: Like it just doesn't look like a good situation.

868
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 2: What are the people close to you like thinking or

869
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 2: wondering this time? Because I mean, for example, I as

870
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 2: I'm sure that you do with the platform that you have.

871
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 2: And we'll get into this a little bit as well,

872
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: but we face criticism on the regular. It's like you

873
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: do one thing and it makes some people happy, and

874
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 2: you do another thing and it makes some people disappointed,

875
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 2: and you just are trying to navigate your day to

876
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 2: day and in that process, I mean, my first reaction

877
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 2: is to vent to someone that is close to me,

878
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 2: someone that's my friend, someone that maybe lives three blocks away.

879
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 2: For you, after getting this criticism from your coach and

880
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 2: not traveling, which also must have been like what, well,

881
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 2: what's going on? Like did you talk to anyone about it.

882
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, So part of what kind of happened was I

883
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: ended up moving to Portland earlier than planned, which as

884
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,800
Speaker 1: you can imagine, like I'm sure anybody who's a parent

885
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: with like, you know, high school age kids, like all

886
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: of a sudden having you know, your child tell you

887
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: that they have to move to Portland like two months

888
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: sooner than school starts, because like their coach wants them to.

889
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: My parents were not thrilled about that, because you know,

890
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: they wanted to have the summer with me, or at

891
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: least have me going somewhere I wanted to go, like

892
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: to Europe to race, and so I had called them

893
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: pretty upset, and you know, kind of I think was

894
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: in my own way, like probably trying to protect people

895
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: and kept being like, yeah, like they don't think I'm

896
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: fit enough. And you know, my parents don't know a

897
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: lot about running, let alone professional athletics. But to them,

898
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: they're like you just finished second at usas how how

899
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: are you not fit? Like that doesn't make sense to us.

900
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 1: And so because I had called them pretty upset, they

901
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: called and texted like the assistant coach and the head

902
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: coach at the time to be like hey, like I

903
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,720
Speaker 1: think Mary's really upset that you're not, you know, including

904
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 1: her on these trips, like you know, why are you

905
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 1: doing that? Like why does she have to move to

906
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: school early? Like can't she just be with the team

907
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: right now? And I got a lot of backlash from

908
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: my coaches for talking to my parents, and I kind

909
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 1: of got the lecture of you know, you're an adult now,

910
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: you're a professional, Like if you're going to do this

911
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 1: for a living, if you're gonna be on this team,

912
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: like you can't go crying to your parents when stuff

913
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: like this happens, like you just have to suck it

914
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 1: up and like get fit.

915
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 4: And I was so embarrassed, Like.

916
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: I remember being kind of mad at my parents for

917
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: like calling them and for like expressing what I had

918
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: said to them, and that became a theme like over

919
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: the course of the year I was in Portland, where

920
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 1: anytime my parents would come in and like say anything,

921
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: I would get kind of shit for it and get

922
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 1: in trouble, and so I just stopped sharing with them.

923
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: And the truth is that, you know, most of my

924
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 1: friends from high school weren't runners, and I felt like

925
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: I couldn't necessarily share things with them because you know,

926
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: talking about you know, body image of stuff, which is

927
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 1: something I felt uncomfortable with. And I think I just

928
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 1: felt like my coaches knew what they were doing, and

929
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: so you know, turning to my sisters just felt like

930
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 1: wrong and I just like I just didn't want to

931
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: get in trouble, and so that really did sort of

932
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:31,879
Speaker 1: silence a lot of communication.

933
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 2: And with that silencing and the weight loss eventually comes

934
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 2: some more injury, because what you come to realize is

935
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 2: that you are not in a place where you can

936
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 2: sustain or get stronger when you are that frail.

937
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and for the first year or two of me

938
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 1: kind of going through and this is like a normal

939
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: progression for a lot of people, but for the first

940
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: year or two, you haven't done enough damage, even though

941
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 1: you're actively having your bones kind of become brittler and

942
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: brittler at the time, you're like the first signs of

943
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: weakness come from just like adrenal fatigue. All the time.

944
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: I just always felt exhausted. I had some bouts of

945
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 1: like athletic level anemia. My levels never dropped to like

946
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: crazy low levels, you know, like I was probably like

947
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,879
Speaker 1: in the twenties versus the teens, but I was having

948
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,760
Speaker 1: all of these kind of other side effects first before

949
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 1: actually breaking things, and I just blew through those warning signs,

950
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,919
Speaker 1: you know, losing my period while you know, I'm telling

951
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,240
Speaker 1: all my coaches about it, I'm asking them for help,

952
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: but they're kind of telling me, like that's something that

953
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 1: happens with hard training. I'm feeling exhausted, I'm feeling tired. Well,

954
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 1: they're telling me, I'm probably not doing all the stuff

955
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: that I'm supposed to be doing to recover. You know,

956
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: I'm having lower iron issues. Well, that's your fault. There

957
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: was never really productive information given to me. It was

958
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 1: always somehow blame blame, blame, shame, shame, shame. And so

959
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 1: that was really kind of that two year cycle where

960
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: I was remained on the organ project and you know,

961
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 1: life is sometimes unfortunate, and that as soon as I left,

962
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:37,919
Speaker 1: that was probably two years were two years too long

963
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: of underfueling and under eating. And you know, within a

964
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,759
Speaker 1: couple of months of me leaving the team, I had

965
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: my first or my second bone injury, and from there

966
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: I proceeded to have you know, a cycle of bone

967
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 1: issues because I had just developed like lower bone density

968
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: and you know, it's like a lot of things where

969
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:06,720
Speaker 1: once you do damage to something, it's not an overnight fix.

970
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 1: Just like I didn't develop bone issues over the course

971
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 1: of a month, and it was two years of probably

972
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: underfeeling that caused the issue. I had to put through

973
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,760
Speaker 1: two years of work to get out of the issue.

974
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: And I feel that was really difficult to often hear

975
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: from my doctors that you could be doing all the

976
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 1: right things right now, but that doesn't mean that's enough

977
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 1: to fully kind of eradicate all of the damage that

978
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 1: you've done.

979
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 4: And so it was. It was a process.

980
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 3: It was a process.

981
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 2: So when the red flags are starting to pop up,

982
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 2: right with all of the injury, when does it go

983
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,439
Speaker 2: from like, Okay, I really feel like something's wrong here

984
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 2: to I need to make a change and it needs

985
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 2: to happen asap.

986
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 1: It was the second bone injury that I had in

987
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 1: the cycle. Like I ended up having four bone injuries,

988
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: and the first one I just cross trained right through.

989
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: I was like I am good, I'm okay. I was

990
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: in full denial. I was still going through weird dieting trends,

991
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 1: like what A lot of it was just like crazy

992
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 1: calorie counting where you know, in order like you know,

993
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 1: based on my just like bodily makeup, I kind of

994
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 1: need about like fifteen hundred calories or so, just like

995
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: living if I did so activity and I would always

996
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 1: keep track of everything that I ate, and I would

997
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:42,919
Speaker 1: try to cut out at least five hundred calories a day,

998
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,720
Speaker 1: because if I did that for the course of a week,

999
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: I was told that I would lose a pound a week,

1000
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 1: because my coach used to always tell me, meaning Alberto,

1001
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 1: that thirty five hundred calories equals a pound, and if

1002
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 1: you're able to cut that out, then you'll like lose

1003
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 1: a pound. And so I would always try to, you know,

1004
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 1: cut that. But my goal was always to see how

1005
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: close to fifteen hundred I could get. And there were

1006
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 1: days that I was only eating that much. And the

1007
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 1: really frustrating thing though about it, and something that I

1008
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: think made it really really hard for me to fully

1009
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 1: acknowledge the fact that I had an issue, was the

1010
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: fact that.

1011
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 4: I didn't really lose.

1012
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 1: Weight that well, like, even though I was under eating

1013
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 1: by just like ridiculous amounts, my body fought me at

1014
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 1: every single step. And the thing is that you know,

1015
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 1: some women will experience, and I think in particular because

1016
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:44,880
Speaker 1: of like the age in which I was kind of

1017
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 1: like exposing myself to disordered eating was that I would

1018
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 1: like really retain water a lot. I kind of bloated

1019
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 1: a lot. I would have issues that were kind of

1020
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:01,759
Speaker 1: surrounded like digest and stuff like patient and upset stomachs

1021
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 1: and irritable boughs and all these different things because my

1022
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 1: body was like, no, we're not gonna let you do this.

1023
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:11,720
Speaker 1: And so to me, I would look in the mirror

1024
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 1: and I would see somebody who was still big, and

1025
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: like there were times where it would just be like

1026
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 1: my weight would just skyrocket back up. And I'm sure

1027
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 1: sometimes I probably just like had a night where I

1028
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 1: just like binged because I was, you know, so exhausted

1029
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: and so hungry. But other times I think it was

1030
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: just like purely just like my body trying to like

1031
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: retain nutrition in whatever way it knew how.

1032
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 2: And so you're also so small at this time to

1033
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 2: be that size and to be taking on what you're

1034
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 2: taking on, Like just like it's hard to cut time

1035
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 2: and seconds off of your running, it's also hard to

1036
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 2: be that size and to lose a ton of weight.

1037
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, absolutely, And I mean I we just like

1038
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: I mean, the thing is, we pulled another converto bless

1039
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: number out of his ass, like I'm sorry to put

1040
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: it that, you know, Curtly.

1041
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 4: But it wasn't like there was.

1042
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 1: Some like scientific calculation because nothing exists like that to

1043
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: find the perfect weight. Like one time I maybe weighed

1044
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: myself and we saw like one thirteen one fourteen, and

1045
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 1: so that was like the do or die goal and

1046
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 1: there was no there was no reason for that, Like

1047
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: there was literally nothing about that number that meant anything

1048
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 1: beyond this, just like random idea by Alberto. And so

1049
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: it's you know, sometimes I look back and it's sad

1050
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: because like I like, I knew my weights really well.

1051
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:56,439
Speaker 1: I weighed myself like every day, you know, And now

1052
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 1: I know that it's normal to have like day to

1053
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: day fluctuations just based on you know, wait, you wait

1054
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: the night before, like saw your period, like all different things.

1055
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: But I remember like there would be days where I'd

1056
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 1: get up and the next day I'd you know, the

1057
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: scale would show me two pounds more and I would

1058
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,919
Speaker 1: just like cry because I was like, oh my god,

1059
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: what did I do wrong? And or you know, I

1060
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: would drop two pounds and be like, oh my god,

1061
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm you know, I'm gonna make everybody happy now,

1062
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: and looking back, that just didn't make any sense, and

1063
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of sad to think about. And

1064
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: so now I'm in a place where I truthfully don't, like,

1065
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: I don't count calories, Like I'm very very against that.

1066
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: And it's not to say I don't understand why people

1067
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: do it. And I think, you know, our eating culture

1068
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,919
Speaker 1: is one in which, like weight loss is so celebrated,

1069
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: and you know, it seems like a lot of things

1070
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 1: with running are very quantitative, and so it's a kind

1071
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: of an easy way to be like make sure you're

1072
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 1: keeping on track. But I just warn any athlete out

1073
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 1: there that I just feel it's a very slippery slope

1074
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: and you're better off just like thinking about what you're

1075
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: eating than how much you're eating, to make sure like

1076
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 1: you're getting in you know, good amounts of you know,

1077
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: protein or fiber, veggies or fruit. You know, look at

1078
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: the watt versus how much, right.

1079
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 2: And so in twenty sixteen, you leave the Oregon Project

1080
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 2: and you at the time shared a statement saying that

1081
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 2: you were back home in New York and a full

1082
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 2: time student at FORDUM and you just made the decision

1083
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 2: that you would no longer be competing in the Oregon

1084
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 2: Project uniform. At that time when you made that statement,

1085
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:49,919
Speaker 2: what did you really want to say?

1086
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: You know, it was I remember that like week of

1087
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 1: trying to write something, and I remember my parents being

1088
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 1: incredibly frustrated because you know, they had had some experiences

1089
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 1: where like at twenty fifteen at Usas, my mom came

1090
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 1: with me to the meat just to like watch me race.

1091
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: And the reason she had come was it was like

1092
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: right after I had called my parents two or it

1093
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 1: was like, you know, six weeks after I'd called my

1094
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 1: parents to like kind of help me come back home,

1095
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 1: because like I admitted to them the fact that like

1096
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: my mental health was suffering, and I didn't open up

1097
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 1: to them about everything. Like I didn't share with them

1098
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: that I was cut. I mean I actually never purposely

1099
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: shared with them I was cutting. I kind of got

1100
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: you know, that ended up being like an intervention from John.

1101
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 1: But I was just in such denial about everything for

1102
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: so long, because for so long I was just gaslight.

1103
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:02,919
Speaker 1: And you know, if you're constantly told by like all

1104
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 1: of your coaches and all of your teammates that like

1105
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 1: You're just supposed to do what you're told that, you know.

1106
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: I couldn't, like I myself, almost couldn't fully accept yet

1107
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: that what had happened was wrong. I still looked at

1108
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 1: myself as being weak for having to leave the program,

1109
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: and so my parents had witnessed some of the behavior

1110
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: by my coaches and buy my teammates, and had had

1111
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 1: some pretty heated conversations with people about it.

1112
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 4: But I was an adult.

1113
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 1: I was, you know, eighteen, and they couldn't force me

1114
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 1: to leave a program, and so I stayed on the

1115
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 1: team in twenty sixteen despite living or twenty fifteen, despite

1116
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: living at home. But it wasn't until after the trials

1117
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 1: that I think I was able to accept enough to

1118
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:02,840
Speaker 1: know that stay on the team was bad. I couldn't

1119
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 1: fully yet, like verbalize or accept everything that was bad,

1120
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 1: but I knew, at the very least for my mental health,

1121
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 1: I had to leave the program because I had an

1122
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 1: eating disorder. And so when I came out with that statement,

1123
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 1: which is looking back so wishy, washy and dumb and

1124
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 1: like myself now is like that's a lie, at the

1125
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 1: time kind of did feel that way, and I remember

1126
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: my mom saying to me. She was like, you know, Mary,

1127
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 1: like you are like the the guide of your own life,

1128
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 1: and I'm never going to like interfere, but like when

1129
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 1: the day comes that you're ready to like really talk

1130
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: about everything, like I will be there for you.

1131
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 4: And that just gets me emotional.

1132
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 1: But like I wasn't ready yet because I wasn't like

1133
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 1: fully I think at peace myself. And so the day

1134
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: that I was, which was you know, within a week

1135
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 1: of Alberto's ban this past fall of twenty nineteen, I

1136
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: went to my mom and I was like, the day

1137
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 1: has come. We're scrapping that last name, and we're gonna

1138
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 1: we're going to tell the truth now because I see

1139
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 1: the truth.

1140
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:27,200
Speaker 2: Before we get to talking about the op ED. I

1141
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 2: don't know necessarily, and I think this is, I mean, god,

1142
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 2: the right way. I've been thinking about this phrase so

1143
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 2: much lately and just when it comes to everything like

1144
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 2: what's the right way to do X or talk about

1145
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 2: why or whatever, and I just don't think that there

1146
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 2: is one when it comes to so many of the

1147
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 2: difficult conversations that we have with one another as humans.

1148
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 2: But when it comes to you cutting yourself, do you

1149
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 2: remember the first time that you did that? And I

1150
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 2: feel as though that must have been a really effing

1151
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 2: emotional experience.

1152
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think for me, the reason it was,

1153
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: And like, I think one thing I've always wanted to

1154
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: make very clear is that the you know, at least

1155
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: for me, is that I like nobody made me cut myself.

1156
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: You know, the external environment was one in which it

1157
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 1: was just incredibly toxic, incredibly negative, mean and.

1158
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 4: Hurtful, just to like sum it up.

1159
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 1: But I do also recognize that I was probably somebody

1160
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 1: who's predisposed to taking frustration and anger out on myself.

1161
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 1: And that's something that I had.

1162
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 4: Always been aware of.

1163
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 1: Like I would be lying if I said I had

1164
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 1: never had the urge to do it before being an Oregon,

1165
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 1: And I think that's just something that I can be

1166
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 1: like open about.

1167
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 4: But I had always.

1168
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: Prided myself with never having done it, like never getting

1169
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 1: so low, like so self hating that I ever did that.

1170
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:32,959
Speaker 1: But the first day that I.

1171
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 3: Did, Sorry, no it's okay, I was just really.

1172
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 1: Like I knew I wasn't okay, because it's not like

1173
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 1: you just wake up and do that one day. I

1174
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: just I just hated myself so much and I just

1175
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 1: like I felt like there was nowhere else to direct that.

1176
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 4: Then, just like on myself.

1177
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: And you know, I like, I wasn't angry with anybody

1178
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 1: else but myself because I just thought I was failing.

1179
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 1: And I knew just based on the language that my

1180
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 1: coaches used, that they felt the same way. And I

1181
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 1: just was really disappointed that these people who I cared

1182
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 1: about so much were disappointed in me, and I just

1183
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:35,640
Speaker 1: felt so bad, Like I felt bad for them because

1184
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 1: to me, it was like, you know, I don't I

1185
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 1: don't like to upset anybody, And I just really blamed

1186
01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:44,960
Speaker 1: myself for that.

1187
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 2: Right right, It's so heartbreaking to think of that feeling

1188
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:59,040
Speaker 2: of being so alone, and it's so difficult to imagine

1189
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 2: this system where you tell people that you need help, yeah, and.

1190
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:09,560
Speaker 3: No one helps, and how awful is that? How awful

1191
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 3: is that?

1192
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:15,440
Speaker 1: It just it just made me think that like, like

1193
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:19,479
Speaker 1: I didn't think when nobody helped that like, oh, they're

1194
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 1: in the wrong. Like in the moment, I just felt

1195
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:25,599
Speaker 1: like it just showed how much I was in the wrong.

1196
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:32,679
Speaker 1: And you know, I just I hope nobody right now

1197
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:38,719
Speaker 1: is feeling that way, because that is just the cruelest thing.

1198
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 4: To do to somebody.

1199
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 1: Is to just like perpetually make them feel like they

1200
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 1: are the problem, especially when I mean this is about running,

1201
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: Like like why would somebody be that like mean or

1202
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:04,400
Speaker 1: cruel over something that is so in the scheme of

1203
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 1: things meaningless like running. You know, we're not like saving

1204
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:13,839
Speaker 1: the world. We're not doctors, we're not scientists, we're not lawyers,

1205
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 1: we're not you know, activists.

1206
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 4: We're people who run.

1207
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 1: Around in circles and you know, do really cool things

1208
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:24,680
Speaker 1: and you know, can have a platform for good. But

1209
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 1: it's not exactly like that team was you know, social

1210
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 1: justice Warriors or anything. You know, most of them were

1211
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 1: considered I'm just gonna put it out is kind of

1212
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 1: assholes within the circuit, Like we were not a beloved team.

1213
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 1: We weren't really a liked team because I don't think

1214
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 1: we came across as particularly nice most of the people

1215
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 1: on it. And to me, I just was like, oh,

1216
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: we're misunderstood. It's you know, like they're actually really great people.

1217
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: But you know, I I think I just put the

1218
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:03,080
Speaker 1: rose colored classes on myself and got way too sucked

1219
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:06,600
Speaker 1: into something that you know, I now look at and

1220
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's running, you know, like who you know,

1221
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:14,800
Speaker 1: I love it, and I think it has the potential

1222
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 1: to be an amazing platform and way to get your

1223
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:23,280
Speaker 1: voice out and mental health kind of reliever in all

1224
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: of these different things. But at the time, it's not

1225
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 1: exactly like those people were fighting for any of.

1226
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:32,680
Speaker 2: That, right, So then talk to me about the New

1227
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 2: York Times. How did that even come to be?

1228
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 1: At first, it was such a like looking back, that

1229
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:48,000
Speaker 1: evolved so quickly, you know, after Alberto's band came out,

1230
01:10:48,439 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 1: Like my first reaction was like the he was still

1231
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 1: under investigation, Like nobody had reached out to me, you know,

1232
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 1: I was reached out to like once in twenty fifteen,

1233
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 1: within like a week of becoming home because of like

1234
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 1: my you know, the occidental classic meet in which I

1235
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 1: admitted to my parents that I was like really struggling

1236
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:17,920
Speaker 1: mentally and emotionally. And so I remember at the time

1237
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:20,799
Speaker 1: just like like literally my parents had said he saw.

1238
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:25,000
Speaker 4: To like we're really sorry, but like we like Mary's

1239
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 4: not in a.

1240
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 1: Good place right now, like please call us back, you know,

1241
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 1: like we don't know.

1242
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:29,360
Speaker 4: What's going on.

1243
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: And then five years later, four years later, it turns

1244
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 1: out the investigation has still been happening, and I had

1245
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 1: no idea, and so I sat down and I read

1246
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:43,160
Speaker 1: that full I don't even know how long that report is,

1247
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 1: but the full thing, And what many people might not

1248
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:51,840
Speaker 1: realize is that I, like I was not on the

1249
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:57,000
Speaker 1: team during almost any of the periods that were brought

1250
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:00,680
Speaker 1: up in which got Alberto band, so like stuff with

1251
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 1: alcarnatine and such was happening like before my time, and

1252
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:10,639
Speaker 1: so when I joined, I was told stories about those things,

1253
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:17,439
Speaker 1: but they were all wise and I didn't know that,

1254
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:23,640
Speaker 1: like up until reading the USADA report where they're like, oh,

1255
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:28,679
Speaker 1: athletes were told that Usada, you know, gave alberta permission

1256
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:31,360
Speaker 1: to do this, but that's actually not true. And so

1257
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: I'm sitting there like, oh my god, I thought he

1258
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 1: was given permission, like that's what I was told, And

1259
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 1: so I just like scoured that report and looked at

1260
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:47,760
Speaker 1: every single line where it was like athletes were told this,

1261
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:51,879
Speaker 1: but in actuality, you know, X, Y and Z happened.

1262
01:12:53,200 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 1: And I just felt such a like physical like slapping

1263
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 1: the face reaction to that because I was like they

1264
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:11,800
Speaker 1: lot And that was the first moment where I could

1265
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 1: vocalize that like up until that time, I couldn't you know,

1266
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:18,679
Speaker 1: like I already knew that the sports psych was lying

1267
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:21,600
Speaker 1: about being a sports psych, and I, you know, I

1268
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 1: knew certain things were lies, but to really just see

1269
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 1: such an egregious mistelling of a situation was.

1270
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 4: Like mind blowing and it made me.

1271
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 1: Sit down for the better part of probably like three days,

1272
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: where I was just like literally going back through emails

1273
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:49,280
Speaker 1: and texts and all this different stuff and just you know,

1274
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 1: finally at a place where I was able to be like,

1275
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:57,800
Speaker 1: none of that was okay, Like none of that situation

1276
01:13:58,840 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 1: was okay. And it wasn't until that I was able

1277
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:05,640
Speaker 1: to see that, like there was definitive proof that I

1278
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:08,600
Speaker 1: was lied to that I think I was able to

1279
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 1: come to terms with the fact that there were other

1280
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:16,880
Speaker 1: really dark truths of my time in Oregon. And you know,

1281
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:24,000
Speaker 1: at first, like I just wrote a piece and honestly,

1282
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:30,599
Speaker 1: my first outline of writing was like very misdirected anger

1283
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:34,920
Speaker 1: where I was like, I am just screaming out on

1284
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 1: a piece of favor about why nobody helped me. And

1285
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 1: I like sent it to Lindsay Krause because my friend

1286
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 1: Alexi PAPIs like had her information and I had asked

1287
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:53,719
Speaker 1: Alexi for it and was a little cryptic to Alexi

1288
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:57,200
Speaker 1: about what I was doing, and when I sent something

1289
01:14:57,240 --> 01:14:59,200
Speaker 1: to Lindsay at first she was like, well, I don't

1290
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:00,880
Speaker 1: I don't really know what you're gonn write, but like

1291
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:04,559
Speaker 1: just shoot anything over to me. And I sent her

1292
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 1: my piece and she just immediately within like probably like

1293
01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:10,400
Speaker 1: an hour, emailed me and was like, can you come

1294
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:11,599
Speaker 1: down to the New York Times right now?

1295
01:15:12,120 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 4: Can we mean in person?

1296
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:16,640
Speaker 1: Please? I was like sure, And I sat down with

1297
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 1: her for a few hours and just everything's built out

1298
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:27,280
Speaker 1: and I just like really opened up to her in

1299
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:30,400
Speaker 1: a way that, you know, I think she just made

1300
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 1: me feel safe.

1301
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 4: I trusted her.

1302
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:36,160
Speaker 1: I knew the work she had done with Alison, Alicia,

1303
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:40,599
Speaker 1: Kara and the women that had come over and come

1304
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 1: out in the Dream Eternity piece, and I just I

1305
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:49,599
Speaker 1: just told her my story and she was incredible and

1306
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:53,559
Speaker 1: supportive and just like helped me like have a space

1307
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 1: to work through it, both verbally and in writing. And

1308
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:02,639
Speaker 1: the six weeks or so that we worked on the piece,

1309
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:04,759
Speaker 1: or it was probably even like shorter, it was probably

1310
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:06,519
Speaker 1: like four or five weeks that we worked on it

1311
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:11,720
Speaker 1: were like the longest weeks of my life because as

1312
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:13,600
Speaker 1: soon as I wanted it to be out like I

1313
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:16,720
Speaker 1: wanted it now, and I had no patience, Like every

1314
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 1: day I was emailing Lindsay like are we gonna drop

1315
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:22,840
Speaker 1: it yet? And I think for me that that need,

1316
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 1: that desire to like let it out was because as

1317
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:30,479
Speaker 1: soon as I saw how bad everything was, I didn't

1318
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:33,120
Speaker 1: want anybody else to be going through that. And the

1319
01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 1: thought that anybody else could be trapped in that situation

1320
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:39,679
Speaker 1: and feeling that level of shame and blame and guilt

1321
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:44,760
Speaker 1: that I did was just so sickening. And I didn't

1322
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:46,880
Speaker 1: expect it to be big. I expected it to just

1323
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:50,000
Speaker 1: stay within the track world. And you know, Lindsay kind

1324
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:52,800
Speaker 1: of felt differently. She was like, either everybody will read

1325
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:54,640
Speaker 1: it or nobody will read it, but I think she

1326
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 1: kind of leaned towards that everybody will side. But I like,

1327
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:01,200
Speaker 1: I didn't care or who read it. I didn't care

1328
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:03,639
Speaker 1: how many. I just I thought I would stay within

1329
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:07,439
Speaker 1: the track world and maybe help one person.

1330
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:08,759
Speaker 4: That was all I needed.

1331
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:09,839
Speaker 3: Were you scared?

1332
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:11,000
Speaker 4: Not really?

1333
01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 1: I mean I sat down with my parents and I

1334
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:15,600
Speaker 1: told them I was like, well, I'm never going to

1335
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 1: get a contract again. And I was like, I'm like

1336
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:20,519
Speaker 1: I literally said to them, I'm like, I want to

1337
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:23,640
Speaker 1: pursue running. I want to continue running. I was like,

1338
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:25,840
Speaker 1: but I just am going to be open with you

1339
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:28,920
Speaker 1: that I'm probably gonna have to go through different different avenues,

1340
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:33,160
Speaker 1: whether it's having another like full time part time job,

1341
01:17:33,320 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 1: some other situation, but like, we are burning our bridges today,

1342
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:42,200
Speaker 1: and I was like, just be prepared for that. Know that,

1343
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:45,800
Speaker 1: I know that, and I'm okay with that. And so

1344
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:48,759
Speaker 1: I was like fully at peace with that, fully prepared

1345
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 1: for that, did not care, honestly did not want to

1346
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 1: be a part of that system anymore. But most of

1347
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:01,920
Speaker 1: the fear came more from.

1348
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:05,840
Speaker 4: Like like.

1349
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:09,680
Speaker 1: The whole thing and in process, Like as soon as

1350
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 1: it was out, I felt free. There was no fear,

1351
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:14,200
Speaker 1: and I knew as soon as it was going to

1352
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:17,080
Speaker 1: be like thrown out into the world, I would be okay.

1353
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:20,360
Speaker 1: But it was more for that like build up that

1354
01:18:20,479 --> 01:18:22,639
Speaker 1: I just wanted to scream off a roof.

1355
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:26,000
Speaker 3: Everything, to speak out in that way, in such a

1356
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:30,320
Speaker 3: old way. I admire you for that.

1357
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 2: I mean, I had a woman on the show or

1358
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:36,320
Speaker 2: her name is Ash Welking. In her episode she said,

1359
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 2: be careful that the sword you fall on to inspire others,

1360
01:18:39,320 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 2: isn't the one that you injure yourself with. And I

1361
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:46,519
Speaker 2: think that this definitely could have gone multiple ways, especially

1362
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:49,799
Speaker 2: when it comes to that feedback loop, right and people

1363
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:53,559
Speaker 2: responding to what it was that you were so ready

1364
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:57,000
Speaker 2: to put out there. So talk to me then about

1365
01:18:57,360 --> 01:18:59,080
Speaker 2: the response component.

1366
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:02,760
Speaker 1: So I think for me, like one thing that I

1367
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 1: think people maybe don't realize is that I was used

1368
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 1: to the media and not always being super supportive of

1369
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 1: me and not in not that it was like negative

1370
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:20,760
Speaker 1: per se, but there was this level of like fascination

1371
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:23,960
Speaker 1: of whether or not I would burn out, and you know,

1372
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:28,360
Speaker 1: talking about my body and my development, and you know,

1373
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:34,400
Speaker 1: I was used to like, I mean, almost no professional

1374
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:39,719
Speaker 1: track and field athlete who competed with and or against

1375
01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:43,720
Speaker 1: me ever reached out to me when I left the

1376
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 1: organ Project. I don't know if I can literally name

1377
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:49,320
Speaker 1: one person who did so.

1378
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:49,760
Speaker 4: To me.

1379
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:53,559
Speaker 1: There was no like, I was not going to injure

1380
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:57,960
Speaker 1: myself on that sword because people had already shown me

1381
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:00,720
Speaker 1: that they did not care about me, and so if

1382
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:03,599
Speaker 1: people were going to be negative come at me, I'm

1383
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:04,200
Speaker 1: used to that.

1384
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:05,680
Speaker 4: You know, this is the.

1385
01:20:05,640 --> 01:20:08,760
Speaker 1: Same sport, This was the same culture where you know,

1386
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:14,840
Speaker 1: nobody ever showed that they cared. So I wasn't you know, Yes,

1387
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:17,760
Speaker 1: I had this incredible young career and people followed me

1388
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 1: and it was positive and wo but like people dropped

1389
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:24,760
Speaker 1: me like a hot potato as soon as they could.

1390
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:27,840
Speaker 1: And so to me, it wasn't like there was going

1391
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 1: to be this big shocking moment of you know, oh

1392
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:34,720
Speaker 1: my gosh, like people are mean, because I was.

1393
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:36,720
Speaker 4: Just kind of used to that at that point.

1394
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 1: And so for me, what was really surprising was the

1395
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:45,280
Speaker 1: level of positivity and support that came from it, just

1396
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:50,040
Speaker 1: from the general larger running community. And of course some

1397
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:53,640
Speaker 1: fellow pros have since, you know, like come out and

1398
01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:58,559
Speaker 1: spoken to me and said some just really really kind

1399
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:02,719
Speaker 1: things and have made me feel more welcome maybe again

1400
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:07,280
Speaker 1: within that professional sporting world. But to me, it was

1401
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:12,040
Speaker 1: more like overwhelming and surprising to have positivity, because that

1402
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:16,800
Speaker 1: was the thing I was not expecting to have, and

1403
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:21,519
Speaker 1: it was both really beautiful, really kind, and as I

1404
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 1: always say, also just a little bit sad because I

1405
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:29,759
Speaker 1: think every time it made me realize how many people

1406
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 1: go through experiences such as this, and to me, that's

1407
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:38,880
Speaker 1: just so wrong and so bad. And I almost feel

1408
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:42,479
Speaker 1: sad that I share this story with so many other

1409
01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:46,760
Speaker 1: people because I wish nobody had to go through this

1410
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:53,200
Speaker 1: sort of behavior with you know, just terrible like negative

1411
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:54,759
Speaker 1: experiences in sport.

1412
01:21:55,640 --> 01:22:00,360
Speaker 2: Can you recall any specific interactions that you have had

1413
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:06,839
Speaker 2: after this all went live that made you appreciate people

1414
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:10,320
Speaker 2: from your past that maybe you hadn't before.

1415
01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:12,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely so.

1416
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:14,639
Speaker 1: I mean I think you know, right off the bat,

1417
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:18,839
Speaker 1: you know, Cara Goucher was just an amazing like friend

1418
01:22:19,200 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 1: during this process.

1419
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:22,000
Speaker 4: Where about a week.

1420
01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:27,759
Speaker 1: Before I, you know, had the article released, I reached

1421
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:30,720
Speaker 1: out to Kara and was just like, Hi, I don't

1422
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:34,000
Speaker 1: know if we ever spoken before, but I just want

1423
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:37,240
Speaker 1: to let you know that I'm doing this. And within

1424
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:40,479
Speaker 1: like five minutes, she messaged me back and was like,

1425
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 1: do you want to hop on the phone right now?

1426
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:46,400
Speaker 1: I was like, yes, please, Because of course she was

1427
01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:50,760
Speaker 1: somebody who had been really at the forefront of the

1428
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:55,160
Speaker 1: Sauda investigation and who for years I had followed and

1429
01:22:55,280 --> 01:23:00,320
Speaker 1: just always felt really just truthfully confused by because I

1430
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:04,400
Speaker 1: as an athlete, just was always again hearing this like

1431
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:07,320
Speaker 1: other side to the story. So it's not that I

1432
01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 1: felt ever that she was like per se like wrong

1433
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:13,599
Speaker 1: about what happened, but I was like, oh, maybe it's

1434
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:17,840
Speaker 1: just like a total miscommunication by everybody. And being able

1435
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:21,880
Speaker 1: to finally like sit and talk with her was just

1436
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:28,040
Speaker 1: the most like cathartic experience because it was just such

1437
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:32,360
Speaker 1: a shared experience, like so much of it, and I

1438
01:23:32,400 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 1: think some of the like sides of coaching, you know,

1439
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:41,080
Speaker 1: Kara maybe hadn't quite spoken as publicly about before. You know,

1440
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 1: we were able to like share in those experiences and

1441
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:47,240
Speaker 1: just talk it through and just kind of like try

1442
01:23:47,280 --> 01:23:50,200
Speaker 1: to heal a little bit together. And of course after

1443
01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:54,840
Speaker 1: my story came out, then many other women such as

1444
01:23:55,360 --> 01:24:01,120
Speaker 1: Amyot or Begley, Jackie Arrison, just like kind of countless

1445
01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:06,720
Speaker 1: other people stepped in and said, yes, this happened, you know,

1446
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:11,760
Speaker 1: we we had similar experiences. And then of course, you know,

1447
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 1: two of my past teammates, Cam Levin's and Dathan Ritzenhein

1448
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:21,640
Speaker 1: also came out and you know, shared their support. And

1449
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 1: I think those people are the people who I always

1450
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:31,960
Speaker 1: will just always mean something to me because they really

1451
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:36,559
Speaker 1: understood what I went through, either through witnessing it through

1452
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 1: experiencing it themselves, and to be able to stand up

1453
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:44,559
Speaker 1: and say that I think was incredibly brave, and you know,

1454
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:49,360
Speaker 1: it's it saddens me that, you know, there are many

1455
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:53,000
Speaker 1: other voices who never have stepped forward or if anything,

1456
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 1: behind closed doors, denied stuff or you know, said negative things.

1457
01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:02,519
Speaker 1: And you know, to me, that's just sad because it's

1458
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:05,479
Speaker 1: just a denial of what happened.

1459
01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:08,040
Speaker 4: But it's it's the people who.

1460
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:11,880
Speaker 1: Came forward who really just I think will be forever teammates.

1461
01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:16,320
Speaker 3: For me, what about running right now excites you?

1462
01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:20,280
Speaker 1: I think just the journey of trying to get back

1463
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 1: up to speed excites me. Like there's something really fun

1464
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:28,599
Speaker 1: about chasing big goals again. And I think for a while,

1465
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:30,800
Speaker 1: even though I would talk the talk, I wasn't really

1466
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 1: walking the walk in my training because I was either

1467
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:36,519
Speaker 1: hurt or you know, too scared or too cautious or

1468
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:40,000
Speaker 1: you know whatever. But now I'm just like, screw it.

1469
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:41,679
Speaker 1: I'm trying to see if I can make an Olympic team,

1470
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:45,160
Speaker 1: Like why not, let's do it. And so to me,

1471
01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:48,120
Speaker 1: kind of like going out every day and like being

1472
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:53,040
Speaker 1: able to like really dream again, I think is fun

1473
01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:55,479
Speaker 1: and I think if it, you know, if those things

1474
01:25:55,560 --> 01:25:59,400
Speaker 1: never happen, yeah, I'll be disappointed, but that's not the

1475
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:02,640
Speaker 1: only reason I'm running. I'm running because it's fun, it

1476
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:05,599
Speaker 1: feels good, I like the journey, I like pushing myself,

1477
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:09,519
Speaker 1: and it's a great thing to share with other people.

1478
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:11,720
Speaker 1: I mean, the other day, my boyfriend and I went

1479
01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:13,479
Speaker 1: for a run together and it was just an easy

1480
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:16,920
Speaker 1: thirty minutes and it was just really nice to be

1481
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 1: able to share that and have those miles together and

1482
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:24,040
Speaker 1: you know, chat and even when you're silent, just you know,

1483
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:26,800
Speaker 1: know you're sharing something with somebody else.

1484
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:31,040
Speaker 3: Do you have moments these days of frustration thinking about

1485
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:33,120
Speaker 3: where you were versus where you are now.

1486
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:36,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be lying if I said no, But I

1487
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:43,559
Speaker 1: think usually usually I honestly am kind of like at

1488
01:26:43,560 --> 01:26:48,000
Speaker 1: a place right now where I've kind of finally accepted that,

1489
01:26:49,240 --> 01:26:53,519
Speaker 1: like this is just where I am, and there's going

1490
01:26:53,560 --> 01:26:57,760
Speaker 1: to be something really rewarding at the end of the

1491
01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:02,559
Speaker 1: day about my running career, and whether that's me achieving

1492
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:04,360
Speaker 1: all the goals that I had set out for myself

1493
01:27:04,360 --> 01:27:07,519
Speaker 1: at sixteen or coming up short in all of them,

1494
01:27:07,640 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 1: but having tried my absolute best, you know, I think

1495
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:14,559
Speaker 1: that's really all that I care about now, and so yeah,

1496
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:16,559
Speaker 1: I'll have those moments like on a bad day where

1497
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,439
Speaker 1: I'm like, dang it, had I had that never happened,

1498
01:27:19,439 --> 01:27:20,240
Speaker 1: I could have done X.

1499
01:27:20,320 --> 01:27:20,680
Speaker 2: Y and Z.

1500
01:27:21,439 --> 01:27:24,559
Speaker 1: But the truth is it didn't happen. So how would

1501
01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:27,679
Speaker 1: I know if that was ever ever in the cards?

1502
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:33,000
Speaker 1: You know, maybe had everything, you know, gone super smoothly,

1503
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:36,000
Speaker 1: I would have put other bumps in the road, or

1504
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 1: maybe I would have been burnt out so hard that

1505
01:27:39,439 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 1: I never would have come back to running and I

1506
01:27:41,400 --> 01:27:44,839
Speaker 1: would have left the sport because of just that mental

1507
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:49,400
Speaker 1: just destruction that had happened. And so to me, it's like,

1508
01:27:49,439 --> 01:27:54,760
Speaker 1: of all the imaginary outcomes, they don't exist, they're not real,

1509
01:27:54,800 --> 01:27:57,680
Speaker 1: they're not here, and so I can't live in a

1510
01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:00,920
Speaker 1: past or in a false future. I just have to

1511
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:03,760
Speaker 1: do my best to turn up every day and also

1512
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:06,320
Speaker 1: realize that there's kind of something fun about being the underdog.

1513
01:28:06,439 --> 01:28:08,400
Speaker 1: There was something really cool about being a seventeen year

1514
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:11,360
Speaker 1: old nobody kind of expected to hit the circuit, and

1515
01:28:11,479 --> 01:28:12,880
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of look at next year and

1516
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:15,599
Speaker 1: I'm like, it'd be really fun to like shock some people,

1517
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:18,080
Speaker 1: And you know what if I don't, well, maybe I'll

1518
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:20,200
Speaker 1: do it the year after and just keep putting in

1519
01:28:20,240 --> 01:28:22,280
Speaker 1: the work, keep putting in the miles and you know,

1520
01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:24,880
Speaker 1: see what I can do. But I think another thing

1521
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:27,280
Speaker 1: I kind of like to leave people with is the

1522
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:32,240
Speaker 1: fact that my legacy in sport will never be because

1523
01:28:32,280 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 1: I win a medal. It just never will. My legacy

1524
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:39,679
Speaker 1: in sport will always, I hope, be that I will

1525
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:44,080
Speaker 1: always fight for sport to be better for people. I

1526
01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:48,520
Speaker 1: think that's something that actually has a lasting impact versus

1527
01:28:49,439 --> 01:28:52,559
Speaker 1: being able to just have this tangible piece of metal.

1528
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean that I don't want that. That

1529
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:57,280
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it doesn't excite me every day to try

1530
01:28:57,320 --> 01:28:57,920
Speaker 1: to chase that.

1531
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:00,280
Speaker 4: But it's also humbling to.

1532
01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:05,000
Speaker 1: Realize that I can win a gold medal tomorrow and honestly,

1533
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:08,240
Speaker 1: that matters less than what I did this past November.

1534
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:12,680
Speaker 2: People come to your social media page and they see

1535
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:16,479
Speaker 2: a woman who's the NYC manager for a tracksmith and

1536
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:19,800
Speaker 2: a runner. When you look in the mirror, what is

1537
01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:22,560
Speaker 2: it that you see looking back at you.

1538
01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:26,040
Speaker 1: You know, my younger self would have always just like

1539
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 1: inserted whatever sport I was doing at the time, and

1540
01:29:29,880 --> 01:29:33,519
Speaker 1: of course most recently that would always be runner. But

1541
01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:36,680
Speaker 1: now I just like I just see me and that

1542
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:42,599
Speaker 1: person somebody who's probably sometimes funny, probably sometimes emotional, probably

1543
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:47,880
Speaker 1: sometimes annoying, loud, is going to speak their mind, is

1544
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:52,320
Speaker 1: passionate about their family and their friends, and you know

1545
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:55,759
Speaker 1: about so many different topics, And you know, I think

1546
01:29:56,200 --> 01:29:59,120
Speaker 1: when people ask you to define yourself, it's such a

1547
01:29:59,320 --> 01:30:03,800
Speaker 1: limiting moment because at the end of the day, we

1548
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:07,400
Speaker 1: as people have so much opportunity, and who I am

1549
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:09,680
Speaker 1: right now is probably going to be different than who

1550
01:30:09,720 --> 01:30:13,439
Speaker 1: I am in the future. And just continuing to strive

1551
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 1: to look at myself with more and more of a

1552
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:20,639
Speaker 1: smile on my face and know that you know, I'm

1553
01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 1: kind of being the best Mary I can be every day.

1554
01:30:25,280 --> 01:30:30,559
Speaker 2: You have the opportunity right now to offer the Mary

1555
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:35,400
Speaker 2: who is feeling as though she's not good enough, who's

1556
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:39,639
Speaker 2: worried about her weight, who is cutting and feel so alone.

1557
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:42,840
Speaker 2: You have the opportunity to offer that Mary a piece

1558
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:45,920
Speaker 2: of advice. Looking back on that hurdle moment right now,

1559
01:30:46,120 --> 01:30:47,920
Speaker 2: what is it that you tell her?

1560
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:52,559
Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing I've always thought back on

1561
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:54,639
Speaker 1: is I wanted that girl to know and I want

1562
01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:57,640
Speaker 1: that girl who's out there right now or boy to

1563
01:30:57,720 --> 01:31:02,360
Speaker 1: know that they're not alone, never alone, no matter what

1564
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:06,880
Speaker 1: you're going through. There is always somebody who loves you,

1565
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:09,439
Speaker 1: there's always somebody who cares about you. There's always somebody

1566
01:31:09,439 --> 01:31:12,599
Speaker 1: who needs you at the end of the day. And

1567
01:31:13,400 --> 01:31:16,360
Speaker 1: my biggest advice is to find that person.

1568
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:19,400
Speaker 4: And I know in my case it took a couple tries.

1569
01:31:19,960 --> 01:31:23,360
Speaker 1: It wasn't my coach, it wasn't my teammates, it was

1570
01:31:23,439 --> 01:31:25,639
Speaker 1: my family, it was my coach here in New York,

1571
01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:29,640
Speaker 1: and it was about trying to find that person and

1572
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:33,640
Speaker 1: ask for help and know that the strong and the

1573
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:37,680
Speaker 1: brave thing to do is to turn to somebody. You

1574
01:31:37,800 --> 01:31:40,519
Speaker 1: don't have to do it alone, because you are not alone.

1575
01:31:40,880 --> 01:31:44,520
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Mary, Your honesty is just it's beautiful.

1576
01:31:44,720 --> 01:31:48,479
Speaker 2: And I think there's no doubt about it in my

1577
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:51,960
Speaker 2: mind that you're doing exactly what it is that you

1578
01:31:52,040 --> 01:31:54,080
Speaker 2: said you want to do, and like this is your

1579
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:57,400
Speaker 2: legacy and this is the important stuff, and this message

1580
01:31:57,960 --> 01:31:59,720
Speaker 2: is so powerful.

1581
01:32:00,920 --> 01:32:03,719
Speaker 1: Thank you, And I just hope, like one thing everybody

1582
01:32:03,760 --> 01:32:06,320
Speaker 1: knows is that sometimes people have kind of turned to

1583
01:32:06,360 --> 01:32:08,960
Speaker 1: me and been like, Wow, it's so brave that you

1584
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:11,760
Speaker 1: speak your truth and it's so powerful that you do,

1585
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:16,360
Speaker 1: And to me, I'm like, no, it's what you have

1586
01:32:16,479 --> 01:32:19,000
Speaker 1: to do, because at the end of the day, if

1587
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:22,800
Speaker 1: you're gonna kind of go through life and hold hold

1588
01:32:22,800 --> 01:32:25,439
Speaker 1: it in and lie to yourself and lie to those

1589
01:32:25,479 --> 01:32:29,360
Speaker 1: around you, you're just never going to be able to

1590
01:32:29,439 --> 01:32:33,720
Speaker 1: unlock that full potential that you owe to yourself and

1591
01:32:33,760 --> 01:32:37,519
Speaker 1: that you deserve. And so to me, it's like, don't

1592
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:39,800
Speaker 1: no matter how hard it is, and no matter how

1593
01:32:39,800 --> 01:32:44,680
Speaker 1: scary it is, don't hold that back. Don't hold that in.

1594
01:32:45,160 --> 01:32:48,599
Speaker 1: You know, speak your truth, speak your mind and say

1595
01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:49,400
Speaker 1: it loud and proud.

1596
01:32:49,640 --> 01:32:51,760
Speaker 3: Thank you so so much.

1597
01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:54,200
Speaker 2: Please take a moment leave a quick review of the

1598
01:32:54,200 --> 01:32:57,280
Speaker 2: show by clicking the link with the description to today's episode.

1599
01:32:57,320 --> 01:32:59,840
Speaker 2: We all face multiple hurdles in life. I want to

1600
01:32:59,840 --> 01:33:01,840
Speaker 2: hear about yours. Reach out to me at Emily at

1601
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:05,479
Speaker 2: hurdle dot us, connect with the podcast Instagram, Twitter at

1602
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:06,759
Speaker 2: Hurdle Podcast Mary.

1603
01:33:06,800 --> 01:33:09,120
Speaker 3: How can they keep up with you? Give me all

1604
01:33:09,200 --> 01:33:09,920
Speaker 3: the details.

1605
01:33:10,120 --> 01:33:12,519
Speaker 1: I guess you can follow me on you know, the

1606
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:18,320
Speaker 1: social media's Instagram, Twitter, my handles run Mary Kine, and

1607
01:33:18,400 --> 01:33:21,599
Speaker 1: of course my as my new role with Tracksmith as

1608
01:33:21,680 --> 01:33:25,639
Speaker 1: the NYC Community manager, keep an eye on their.

1609
01:33:25,479 --> 01:33:26,400
Speaker 4: Pages as well.

1610
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:30,519
Speaker 1: I'll be, you know, hopefully kind of unveiling some new

1611
01:33:30,600 --> 01:33:33,479
Speaker 1: stuff soon that I've been working on for this past month,

1612
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 1: so I'm excited to be sharing that.

1613
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:38,479
Speaker 2: I'm excited to be a part of it. I am

1614
01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:43,160
Speaker 2: at Emily Abodi at Hurdle Podcast. Another Hurdle conquered. Catch

1615
01:33:43,200 --> 01:33:44,000
Speaker 2: you guys next time.