WEBVTT - Kate: Owning Our Imperfections

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<v Speaker 1>I I think that that is one of the reasons

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<v Speaker 1>that I love being different. It's because it's sort of

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<v Speaker 1>disallows you from being able to pretend like everything is okay.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to interview Kate because there's so many ways

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<v Speaker 1>in which we can be invisible. Going into this conversation,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't know much about stuttering. What I did know

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<v Speaker 1>is that my dad's stutters, and I didn't really even

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<v Speaker 1>clock it as like a thing thing like that. There's

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<v Speaker 1>a whole sector of the population that stutters, and there's

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<v Speaker 1>like organizations that are catered to being a community because

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<v Speaker 1>of how they're perceived. At the larger scale, you meet

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<v Speaker 1>Kate through her voice, including her stutter, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>what's absolutely beautiful about voices and about all of our

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<v Speaker 1>identities and everything we bring to the table is that

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<v Speaker 1>it's not just our vocal thing go print, but sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>even like the little pieces of our soul being shared

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<v Speaker 1>out loud. So I'm really honored to share the story

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<v Speaker 1>and to share Kate with you. All. Welcome to when

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<v Speaker 1>You're Invisible. My name is Maria Fernande, but I know

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<v Speaker 1>not everyone can rule there are so it's also fine

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<v Speaker 1>to call me Maria in today's world. We love to

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<v Speaker 1>tell stories about people who have reached the top, like

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<v Speaker 1>people who have achieved positions of cloud wealth power. On

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<v Speaker 1>this show, I won't be doing that. When You're Invisible

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<v Speaker 1>is my love letter to the working class and others

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<v Speaker 1>who are seemingly invisible in our society. Helped to build

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<v Speaker 1>a community here that will inspire you to have generous

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<v Speaker 1>conversations with others that are different from you, conversations that

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<v Speaker 1>might help you see life in an entirely different way.

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<v Speaker 1>Kid is an incredible soul. You meet her and she

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<v Speaker 1>is just this beautiful, like almost otherworldly warmth. And when

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<v Speaker 1>I sat down to talk to her, I immediately like

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<v Speaker 1>felt like I didn't have many walls, and I immediately

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to be present because she was okay sitting listening

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<v Speaker 1>and taking up a gentle space. Kate was like a

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<v Speaker 1>beautiful way of reminding me that there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>ways to approach the world, and there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>ways to approach each other, and there's also a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of ways we can approach ourselves. I think it's helpful

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<v Speaker 1>to break down that there are a lot of ways

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<v Speaker 1>to hide the fact that you stutter. There are you

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<v Speaker 1>know what what a lot of speech therapist teach you

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<v Speaker 1>is falls under the umbrella fluency techniques. So there are

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<v Speaker 1>are certain things that you can you can sort of

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<v Speaker 1>do with your voice to sort of trick your vocal

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<v Speaker 1>cords and your m neurology into being fluent quote unquote,

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<v Speaker 1>which is hard and takes a lot of work. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's things like talking like this, or it's things like

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<v Speaker 1>making a small sound before the statement. It's called an

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<v Speaker 1>easy onset. K articulates this ability to hide in this

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<v Speaker 1>shifting that I really relate to because depending on the

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<v Speaker 1>situation and what was happening around me, I would change

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<v Speaker 1>colors a little bit. Something that's kind of interesting about

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<v Speaker 1>people who satter is that a lot of us can

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<v Speaker 1>tell the words that we're going to start around before

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<v Speaker 1>we get there. So like a few words before, you'll

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<v Speaker 1>sort of feel it and you'll you'll you'll know that

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<v Speaker 1>that is going to be a word that's going to

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<v Speaker 1>take a lot longer to say. You can change it.

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<v Speaker 1>You can change that word and just completely avoid the stutter.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's that, and then the third way that's super

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<v Speaker 1>effective to not stutter is to not talk. So you know,

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<v Speaker 1>all all three of those things are methods that I

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<v Speaker 1>was really gung hole for as a young young person

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<v Speaker 1>to sort of tie yourself into not to try to

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<v Speaker 1>execute those three methods to not stutter and sound the

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<v Speaker 1>same way as everybody else. I'm not gung hope for

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<v Speaker 1>those things now. For me, the problem is that when

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<v Speaker 1>I do those things, I feel like each time there

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<v Speaker 1>is a little sliver of space between myself and my

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<v Speaker 1>actual point, between myself and my like authentic energetic intent

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<v Speaker 1>for common communication, and so each time it gets a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit more and more and more and more, and

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<v Speaker 1>so it just drives a wedge between what I mean

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<v Speaker 1>and what I'm trying to serve up and what I'm

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<v Speaker 1>actually saying, and that feels really bad for me. Authenticity

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<v Speaker 1>is something that I'm always curious about. It's partially linked

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<v Speaker 1>to the development of this podcast. I want to figure

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<v Speaker 1>out how to live beautifully and truthfully and generously to

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<v Speaker 1>recognize other people in our place in the world that

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<v Speaker 1>we are all beautiful, special, complicated, fucked up, and we're

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<v Speaker 1>all dealing with a million things at the same time.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I got this from somebody else, but used

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<v Speaker 1>to call myself a walking the saurus because that's what

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<v Speaker 1>it is. Like you you have to be so smart

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<v Speaker 1>and like no so many words and and then if

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<v Speaker 1>you say a word that like sort of gets to

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<v Speaker 1>your meaning but not fully, then you have to like

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<v Speaker 1>you know, build that out on the back end and

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<v Speaker 1>like try to like still go back to your point.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a it's a like you said, it's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of gymnastics. I'm curious as to, like your experience growing up,

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<v Speaker 1>what is the process as a family, because when you're

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<v Speaker 1>a kid who stutters to how do the adults in

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<v Speaker 1>your life react. I am more and more just so

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<v Speaker 1>in awe of my family, and I had and have

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<v Speaker 1>just such deep privilege in terms of how how how

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<v Speaker 1>they see me and what they think about me. My

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<v Speaker 1>mom especially, she is she's like a badass lady. And

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<v Speaker 1>I never remember her being like, you know, well, you

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<v Speaker 1>might not be able to do that because you stutter.

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<v Speaker 1>Or more specifically, when I had moments of feeling just

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<v Speaker 1>like destroyed or or ragged after a hard day or

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<v Speaker 1>a hard experience, like her reaction was always just like

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<v Speaker 1>I got you, and you're gonna You're gonna get through

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<v Speaker 1>this because you are extraordinary. More when we come back

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<v Speaker 1>from a break, Welcome back to our conversation. On this

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<v Speaker 1>episode of When You're Invisible. There is this device called

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<v Speaker 1>this speech Easy, and it's an inner ear device that

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<v Speaker 1>fits into your ears sort of like a hearing aid.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like an echo. It's like less than a second

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<v Speaker 1>of delay per words. This device called speech Easy, which

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<v Speaker 1>was created in two thousand and one. It's a fluency

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<v Speaker 1>device for stutters. It basically creates a chral effect and

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<v Speaker 1>so you're hearing your voice bounce back at you through

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<v Speaker 1>your ear at a higher pitch in order to create

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<v Speaker 1>like the confidence that you get from speaking in a group,

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<v Speaker 1>and also by trying to like take you out of

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<v Speaker 1>that that space I guess of being in your head.

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<v Speaker 1>There are different sounds of the voices that you can choose,

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<v Speaker 1>but mine was like a chipmunk voice that was in

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<v Speaker 1>my ear. The world doesn't really know anything at all,

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<v Speaker 1>really about how the brain works and why we stutter,

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<v Speaker 1>and what the brain is and what we are and

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<v Speaker 1>what is happening inside of our heads. We know about

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<v Speaker 1>space sort of, but we don't know very much about

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<v Speaker 1>our own brains, which I think is a good like

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<v Speaker 1>micro causum for just what we're doing right now is people.

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<v Speaker 1>My mom paid the money and I got it, and

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<v Speaker 1>it did work for a period, but then generally the

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<v Speaker 1>effects where off as the brain sort of adjust. The

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<v Speaker 1>brain is not going to transform itself based on the

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<v Speaker 1>input of this brand new thing that you're trying. It's

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<v Speaker 1>going to find a way to default back to its

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<v Speaker 1>natural state, which is like very broken brain science. But

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<v Speaker 1>it's fine. I think it was probably about two or

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<v Speaker 1>three weeks and then it stopped working, And that felt

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<v Speaker 1>like a really important moment for me because I sort

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<v Speaker 1>of had to I had to had to look into

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<v Speaker 1>this black hole of truth that this was my identity,

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<v Speaker 1>this is who I am, this is how it is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be. And for the first time I started

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<v Speaker 1>to consider, like, Okay, Kate, how are you going to

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<v Speaker 1>work this into who you are as a person? Like

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<v Speaker 1>how are you going to look at this with love

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<v Speaker 1>and with care and tenderness and acceptance. It's funny that

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<v Speaker 1>you bring up the idea of feeling broken and how

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<v Speaker 1>we're all broken, because I think it's something like that

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<v Speaker 1>we deemed taboo that by being broken it's bad, when

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<v Speaker 1>in fact, where we ever perfect holes, but rather just

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<v Speaker 1>like pieces that are meant to be beautifully put together,

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<v Speaker 1>and that like, they're meant to look different. Why are

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<v Speaker 1>we trying to be a full sheet of glass when

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<v Speaker 1>we're meant to be stained glass? Gone bye? Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know. It's like the most beautiful things to me

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<v Speaker 1>are never perfect. We are duped to believe the system

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<v Speaker 1>is there to help us, even if the system is

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<v Speaker 1>as small as like a medical device that we've created

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<v Speaker 1>to like somehow help cure this disability or disorder, versus

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<v Speaker 1>being like all our brains are wired differently. As long

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<v Speaker 1>as it's not hurting her, why should it be fixed?

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<v Speaker 1>Only one percent of the population stutters, So to be

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<v Speaker 1>someone who has to be like, oh, there's everything I

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<v Speaker 1>deal with that you deal with, and then on top

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<v Speaker 1>of that, here's this other thing thinking about that. Does

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<v Speaker 1>it affect the way you date or do talk about

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<v Speaker 1>it or anything like that? Dating dating, dating dating. I

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<v Speaker 1>think that there's some some super buzzy intersectional identity stuff

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<v Speaker 1>with being a person who stutters and being a woman

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<v Speaker 1>or being a girl. Yeah. I have recently learned as

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<v Speaker 1>I have approached thirty and been examineing what the fact

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<v Speaker 1>happened in the last twenty nine years. I've sort of

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<v Speaker 1>come come to understand the intersection of stuttering in like

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<v Speaker 1>romance and intimacy in a in a way that feels

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<v Speaker 1>really deep and really like It's just very embedded in

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<v Speaker 1>my psyche, and I think that in general, the way

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<v Speaker 1>that it has impacted is I have looked to the

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<v Speaker 1>partners that I've had for so much more than just love.

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<v Speaker 1>I've looked to them essentially to sort of be up

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<v Speaker 1>a buffer between myself and the outside world. As I

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<v Speaker 1>have sought that I have molded myself up around what

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<v Speaker 1>they thought was really good and what they thought was

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<v Speaker 1>really beautiful and sexy, as opposed to what felt authentic

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<v Speaker 1>and beautiful and sexy to to myself as a woman.

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<v Speaker 1>I definitely feel some of that pressure. What was like

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<v Speaker 1>a big turning point for you? The biggest one was

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<v Speaker 1>when I learned about SAY and got involved in SAY.

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<v Speaker 1>Saying That the Stuttering Association for the Young, which is

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<v Speaker 1>where I work. SAY was founded in two thousand one

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<v Speaker 1>and has a two week summer sleepaway camp, speech therapy

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<v Speaker 1>with a license speech therapist, and after school and weekend

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<v Speaker 1>arts classes. I was not finding great success when I

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<v Speaker 1>first moved to the city with finding work. I was

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<v Speaker 1>going out on all these interviews at these sort of

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<v Speaker 1>like random ish places, and I was just not getting

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<v Speaker 1>these jobs. I was. I was working at a bakery

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<v Speaker 1>and so that was like my my day, my day job.

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<v Speaker 1>Then I had to decide me over. But I was

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<v Speaker 1>contacted on LinkedIn by the biggest heads fund in the country,

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<v Speaker 1>I think, or it might be the world. I'm not sure.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't work this, so I don't know what all

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<v Speaker 1>the details. Sorry. I went for this interview, and because

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<v Speaker 1>it was a group interview, you had to prepare and

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<v Speaker 1>open ended discussion, question question. I was to the group too,

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<v Speaker 1>then like potentially leaded a discussion and I learned about say.

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<v Speaker 1>I Like, I was really really stressed out and absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>freaking out that I was going to have to go

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<v Speaker 1>do this group interview and stutter or not stutter and

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<v Speaker 1>word switched and just is gonna just be so much?

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<v Speaker 1>And so I reached out to say and I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>can you help me? I need something? I need help.

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<v Speaker 1>And the speech therapist at the time, his name is

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<v Speaker 1>Ryan Milliger, and he's now a very dear, dear friend

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<v Speaker 1>of mine, so it's fun to think about that. He

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<v Speaker 1>wrote right back to me, like within a few hours

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<v Speaker 1>and was like, yes, absolutely, come on in and we

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<v Speaker 1>can we can talk about it and like see what

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<v Speaker 1>you want to do. So I was then going into

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<v Speaker 1>this interview with like the knowledge that there was an

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<v Speaker 1>outlet somewhere, that there was like a glimmer of of

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<v Speaker 1>kindness and of self love and of just love in general.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I didn't get the job, which is great,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm so glad that I didn't, But I did

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<v Speaker 1>go into Say and I met I met Ryan, and

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<v Speaker 1>I started with a speech internship with him because I

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<v Speaker 1>was thinking for a while about being a speech therapist.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I went and I worked at our camp,

0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.760
<v Speaker 1>Camp Say, and then on the last day of Camp Say,

0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:11.000
<v Speaker 1>they offered me a full time job at Sunset by

0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:18.080
<v Speaker 1>the Lake. So it was perfect. Community with like minded

0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:21.800
<v Speaker 1>or like experienced people is really important because you get

0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.040
<v Speaker 1>to see yourself mirrored back at you, whether it's through

0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:29.920
<v Speaker 1>other peers or adults. If you're a kid, the world

0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:34.280
<v Speaker 1>can look a million different ways and it can include me,

0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:37.200
<v Speaker 1>and being able to take a look at that and

0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:43.840
<v Speaker 1>develop the confidence and the vocabulary around your experience and

0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.120
<v Speaker 1>what you're seeing in the world. I think he's super,

0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:51.120
<v Speaker 1>super important. I love the strength that we can get

0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:55.400
<v Speaker 1>from connecting to people who we consider our own. And

0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.240
<v Speaker 1>then I'm really curious about, like, how do we expand

0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:02.480
<v Speaker 1>that to include people who might not be the same

0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:07.119
<v Speaker 1>as us. Stay tuned for more from one year Invisible

0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:19.040
<v Speaker 1>after this break and we're back. What do you think

0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:23.760
<v Speaker 1>young Kate would think now of Kate approaching thirty? Yea,

0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:28.239
<v Speaker 1>it brings me so much joy to say that I

0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:32.720
<v Speaker 1>think young Kate would would would be like, what Kate,

0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:38.040
<v Speaker 1>you did this? This is awesome. So that's really fun

0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:42.439
<v Speaker 1>to think about. But where I thought I would be was,

0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, I thought that I wouldn't stutter. I thought

0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.119
<v Speaker 1>that I was going to grow out of it. I

0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.280
<v Speaker 1>thought that until like fairly late in my in my

0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:55.720
<v Speaker 1>life as a child. And I think that that is

0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.920
<v Speaker 1>a lot of what young people who said. I think

0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:04.040
<v Speaker 1>the reality is that a lot of people who stud

0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.840
<v Speaker 1>are past I believe it's like age eight or maybe

0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:12.520
<v Speaker 1>nine or ten will stutter for so the rest of

0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:17.840
<v Speaker 1>our lives. And with that knowledge, speech therapists still preach

0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:22.359
<v Speaker 1>these fluency techniques to us and hold up this heavenly

0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:26.000
<v Speaker 1>body of fluency that we can just get to if

0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:30.800
<v Speaker 1>we work hard enough, and that feels feels really really

0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:35.520
<v Speaker 1>destructive to me. We have the research. You are the

0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:40.119
<v Speaker 1>expert in this field. You know that there's there's a

0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:43.080
<v Speaker 1>good chance that I'm going to stutter for the rest

0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:44.679
<v Speaker 1>of my life and and this is going to be

0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:49.520
<v Speaker 1>part of my experience, and you are reinforcing to me

0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:53.120
<v Speaker 1>that that is bad and that that that is wrong.

0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:58.840
<v Speaker 1>And if I work hard enough and am good enough,

0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:03.679
<v Speaker 1>I can reach the level. And that is setting us

0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.800
<v Speaker 1>up to fail. And it is I think the biggest

0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:12.600
<v Speaker 1>micro aggression that sort of exists in the lives of

0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:17.160
<v Speaker 1>people who who crews better is this idea that if

0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.080
<v Speaker 1>you just you know, worked hard enough, you could be fun.

0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:24.200
<v Speaker 1>It just feels like it's a it's a false God.

0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:32.680
<v Speaker 1>I really truly believe that we all benefit from the

0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:38.280
<v Speaker 1>widening of these standards of what is normal. Like that

0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:43.200
<v Speaker 1>is truly good for us all because as we do that,

0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.959
<v Speaker 1>like even for the person who is I don't know,

0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:55.120
<v Speaker 1>let's say, the most normal like white, skinny, pretty fit,

0:19:55.680 --> 0:20:00.240
<v Speaker 1>like smart, talks in a certain way, Like even for

0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:05.560
<v Speaker 1>that person, they have parts about themselves that feel different

0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:09.240
<v Speaker 1>and that they see is different. And so by by

0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:15.879
<v Speaker 1>by widening the parameters of what is normal, everybody wins.

0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:20.679
<v Speaker 1>I think we shift ourselves and our version of normal

0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:24.560
<v Speaker 1>based on what is predominant around us, not just regionally,

0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:30.600
<v Speaker 1>but also ethnically, racially, culturally, and also normal is based

0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.360
<v Speaker 1>off of who you interact with and who you're around.

0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:38.280
<v Speaker 1>And I think for me, having experienced so many different

0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.359
<v Speaker 1>kinds of normal, I think that's where I would take

0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.600
<v Speaker 1>on a little bit of what is the monolith around

0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:48.640
<v Speaker 1>me and either learned something from it, take a step

0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.960
<v Speaker 1>towards it, or not. Dealing with different kinds of normal

0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:56.280
<v Speaker 1>made me more specific in myself, and it also made

0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.439
<v Speaker 1>me highly aware of how people perceived me. And thinking

0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.800
<v Speaker 1>about the normal that k brings up in a somewhat

0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:05.840
<v Speaker 1>joking manner is kind of sad to think about how

0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:12.040
<v Speaker 1>predominant that still is, that it's still a Eurocentric, skinny, blonde,

0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.639
<v Speaker 1>blue eyed kind of thing that still is prevalent in

0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.040
<v Speaker 1>a nation that's so diverse, And I would love to

0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.520
<v Speaker 1>get to the point where the standard is actually something

0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:25.760
<v Speaker 1>that has a wider range of possibility. As Kate was saying,

0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:29.560
<v Speaker 1>my favorite places to be are with diverse people from

0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:33.080
<v Speaker 1>all different kinds of backgrounds. As we say in Mexico

0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:38.600
<v Speaker 1>that is all the colors and all the tastes and flavors.

0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:46.199
<v Speaker 1>What do you wish people knew if you could have

0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.960
<v Speaker 1>everybody knows something or be something, what would it be?

0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:54.320
<v Speaker 1>The thing that I would love, love love love would

0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:57.640
<v Speaker 1>be if people just sort of in general knew how

0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:02.120
<v Speaker 1>to listen. And like, that's not just for stuttering, I'm

0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:05.840
<v Speaker 1>in general. This thing that we're doing as a culture

0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:10.040
<v Speaker 1>about starting to talk before the person is finished, which

0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:15.800
<v Speaker 1>is like everywhere, every day, every second, that is the standard.

0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:22.040
<v Speaker 1>It's just so tiresome. Why why are we doing this

0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:26.240
<v Speaker 1>thing where like I am still actively speaking, I haven't

0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:29.480
<v Speaker 1>gotten to the end of what I'm saying yet, and

0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:34.840
<v Speaker 1>you are starting to talk before I'm finished responding to

0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:37.840
<v Speaker 1>the thing that you think that I'm saying, but I

0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:41.199
<v Speaker 1>might not be saying that thing because I'm not finished.

0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:47.520
<v Speaker 1>That's a squarely baffling way to commmunicate. And I think

0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:50.439
<v Speaker 1>that it's based in time is money, It's based in

0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:54.440
<v Speaker 1>everybody being being fast faced. It's based in like this

0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:58.680
<v Speaker 1>this need to get things finished quickly. But like it's

0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:02.920
<v Speaker 1>not effective, and it makes the spaces between us wider,

0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:08.960
<v Speaker 1>and it makes us miss understand each other, and I

0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:13.240
<v Speaker 1>think we we we all lose in that way by

0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:18.600
<v Speaker 1>by not allowing a person to be the full extent

0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:22.400
<v Speaker 1>of themselves in that in that moment. I would really

0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:25.719
<v Speaker 1>love for that to change, and I think that that

0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:28.280
<v Speaker 1>would would really change the way that we relate to

0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:33.439
<v Speaker 1>each other. I feel really fortunate to have had this

0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:37.040
<v Speaker 1>conversation with Kate, who also gave me a window into

0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:40.560
<v Speaker 1>understanding someone else. I love. It was just like a gentle,

0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:44.960
<v Speaker 1>sweet revelation of like, oh huh, there might be more

0:23:45.000 --> 0:23:47.600
<v Speaker 1>going on with my dad than I thought in terms

0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:51.560
<v Speaker 1>of his experience. It felt like a genuine interaction and

0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:56.800
<v Speaker 1>a genuine conversation. And I think to have learned so

0:23:56.920 --> 0:24:02.760
<v Speaker 1>much about someone else and to witness their vulnerability and

0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:06.440
<v Speaker 1>their willingness to share, is a gift that I will

0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:10.040
<v Speaker 1>always be in awe of. I leave this conversation with

0:24:10.080 --> 0:24:14.360
<v Speaker 1>a sense of hope and a sense of calm, content nous.

0:24:17.440 --> 0:24:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Having talked to Kate, we are going to next chat

0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:25.199
<v Speaker 1>with another woman who I find extraordinary and fascinating and

0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:30.640
<v Speaker 1>ever evolving, the incredible Lonnie. She's worked as a photographer,

0:24:30.920 --> 0:24:33.800
<v Speaker 1>as a sex worker, and had many other jobs and

0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:36.879
<v Speaker 1>she's now a soon to be mom. I'm really excited

0:24:36.920 --> 0:24:40.239
<v Speaker 1>to share her strength, her curiosity, and her journey with

0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:51.720
<v Speaker 1>you all on our next episode. Thank you so much

0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:54.280
<v Speaker 1>for listening to When You're Invisible and for joining me

0:24:54.359 --> 0:24:58.320
<v Speaker 1>on this journey. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe.

0:24:58.760 --> 0:25:01.280
<v Speaker 1>You can find this episode and future ones on the

0:25:01.359 --> 0:25:04.760
<v Speaker 1>I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:10.359
<v Speaker 1>your podcasts. I'm your host and creator Maria fernand with

0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:16.959
<v Speaker 1>executive producers Anna Stump, Nikki Tore and ban producers Arlene

0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:22.360
<v Speaker 1>Santana and Bablo Cabrera, with associate producer Claudia Martha Corena

0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:27.080
<v Speaker 1>and post production producer Daisy James. Original theme music by

0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:30.720
<v Speaker 1>Tony Bruno. When You're Invisible is an I Heart Podcast

0:25:30.760 --> 0:25:34.800
<v Speaker 1>Network production in partnership with Michael Toura Podcast Network