WEBVTT - Jeff Nelson of Blavity on How to be a Technical Co-Founder and Hacking the Startup Paradox 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.280 I'm Will Lucas and this is black Tech, Green Money. 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:06.280 Jeff Nelson is known as the Relatable CEO for its 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:09.520 ability to take very complex technology solutions and help others 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:12.480 understand how and why to implement them to benefit themselves 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:15.360 and the businesses. He's the co founder and chief operating 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:19.000 officer for Blavity, the leading company for black culture and millennials, 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:21.680 and the founder and CEOs and shopping of real time 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:25.840 software platform for data discovery, analytics, and automation. His companies 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:28.600 have combined raised over thirteen million dollars in venture funding, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.800 generating millions in recurring revenue, and created dozens of jobs 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:35.080 for women and underrepresented people. His book, Having to Start 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.040 a Paradox Twenty Strategies to Build the Business from Scratch 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:43.560 is out now. And So I was reading a blog 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:47.000 post on your website and you were talking about the 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:50.920 pros and cons of outsourcing software development. 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:53.880 Can you share, you know, like real. 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.640 Life examples where you may have outsourced something in the 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:00.400 positives and negatives of that, like what was your periods? 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.679 Like yeah, so and all my different stops. Right. So, 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:08.600 even at Blavity, there are times when we outsource. Sometimes 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:11.600 when we bring things in house and my other companies 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:16.520 and ventures, that same decision making criteria applies, right, And 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.760 so generally my rule of thumb is that early on 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:22.720 it is better to outsource it because you don't know 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:27.880 if it's gonna work. Outsourcing is more it's it's a 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.920 larger initial upfront investment, but you don't carry the cost 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:36.160 over time, right. And so for something that you know 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.800 potentially may not work or may not be monetizable, outsourcing 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.280 it allows you to have a very narrow scope. It 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.679 allows you to get more bang for your buck. Right. 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:48.080 You're typically not having to think about who do I 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:49.920 need to hire, how many people I need to hire, 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.000 what are those skill sets which takes a lot of time. 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:54.080 You can work with somebody that has all that and 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:55.840 you can just sort of say, this is what I'm 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:57.400 trying to do, this is what I'm trying to build, 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:01.080 and go and go for it, right, And so that's 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:05.880 that's generally my advice there. Now, there are some risks, 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:09.480 and I can think, you know, I've had good experiences 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:15.200 outsourcing with some firms, even even offshore, right. I think 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:16.840 you know, ten years ago, it used to be that 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:21.960 people were very wary of outsourcing to to you know, 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:27.560 offshore development firms. If there are no regulatory issues, no 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.520 sort of like data security compliance issues, then that's that's 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.200 a viable path. It's very very cost effective. I've had 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:37.440 good experiences on shore and offshore, some some bad experiences, 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:39.600 and and what I will say, you know, in those 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:47.280 bad experiences, what you typically get is you you sort 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:53.640 of get bad actors from adversarial countries, right, Like, so 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:58.240 countries who are you know, are interested in stealing intellectual 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:04.040 property from US sensities. You get either people who are 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:06.480 from those countries who are posing to be US citizens 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.679 or being citizens of another country, and that really they're 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:15.600 in it to one either steal ip or to create 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.760 backdoors in what you're doing. And early on at Blavity, 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.360 this was several years ago, I would say, like in 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.560 twenty eighteen, we had this random thing where we were 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:29.040 being hacked and our sites were always going down by 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.359 from Russian bots, right, Like, we were always going down, 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.280 and Morgan was like, Yo, what's what's going on? Why 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:36.400 are we always going down? And I would actually look 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.520 in and see that we are being actively hacked from Russia, right, 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.480 And a lot of this was because early on when 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.360 you are trying to get the market quickly, you're trying 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.800 to build things quickly, and you are outsourcing. Sometimes if 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.320 you are you know, just going for the cheapest vendor, 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:56.240 you may actually be getting some bad actors who are 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:58.240 playing a long game. They're trying to put some back 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:00.640 doors in what your a building. You're trying to or 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.320 excel traate some ip So that that's something to be 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:03.800 careful of. 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:08.760 So when you think about outsourcing in those earliest days, 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.560 and you might even be trying to raise funds also, 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:15.760 So it does outsourced technical talent impact fundraising. 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:20.560 Yeah, so it does right and typically and you know 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:22.640 this is interesting what I you know, what I talk 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:25.279 about in my book, which you know, the startup paradox, 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:27.560 the fourth elements that I talk about, right, which is 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:33.760 you know, team, product, customers, and then funding. When investors 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.880 are evaluating a startup, they're really looking at those three 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.279 other things, right and really honestly all four right, They're 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.520 looking to see have you raised money before? Right, because 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.080 investors kind of have this herb mentality if you've raised 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.600 or you got money from this other person before, and 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.440 they may get at like if war if Warren Buffett 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:54.720 is invested in something, then everybody everybody's in the right 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:57.680 or so. But if you're a startup and you haven't 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:59.480 raised money before, then they're looking to say, like, okay, 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.680 what about your team? Do you have customer traction? Do 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:04.040 you have a do you have a good product? 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:04.240 Right? 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.200 And so yes, your rights to note that in those 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:11.279 early days, if you if your team is mostly made 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:16.240 up of offshore outsourced talent, that can be a risk, 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:20.080 especially as it relates to intellectual property. The investors are 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.520 gonna want to know like, hey, have you made sure 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.520 that the work that these people are doing you own it, 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.680 that they that they don't own it. But but really 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:33.080 the story has to be how are you leveraging your 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.640 limited resources to you know, if you don't have a 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.560 strong team, how are you somehow building a great product right? 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:44.120 Or how are you somehow getting great customer traction? A 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:47.680 more attractive option that I will say that has really 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:49.400 emerged and I talk a bit about it in my 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.080 in the book Having to Start a Paradox, and it's 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.120 something that I do and have done. It is this 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.320 notion of like a fractional cto and so this is 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:02.080 really for you know, if you're a founder where you've 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.520 got a limited budget, You've got somebody to spend, but 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.960 you can't afford to hire a full team. You have 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:13.160 not found that technical co founder, but you don't know 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:18.680 how to find an outsourced development team. What you could 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:22.720 do is work with somebody who is a fractional cto, 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:26.400 like somebody in my position who has built companies before, 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.599 who has done it, where their incentive is like, they're 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.400 not going to charge you what they would normally charge 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:36.040 somebody to do this, right, because you can't afford that. Really, 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.159 what they're what they're trying to do is say, how 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:42.039 can I partner with you in some capacity and be 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:45.520 a part of your team and share in the upside, 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:49.480 but lend my expertise, my time, my credibility to one 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.320 help you build and to help you assemble a strong team. 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:57.240 What I've seen recently is that investors, in the absence 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.400 of having a core team yourself, when you do have 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:04.680 this this sort of fractional expertise, that's a good substitute, right, 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:08.320 Like think of some of the you know, greatest founders 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.400 that you can think of who have built strong businesses. 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:13.920 If they if an investors like, oh you got so 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:18.000 and so spending twenty hours a month with you helping 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:20.239 you build or helping it do this, and they've scaled 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.840 up and they've built companies. Then cool, like they're they're 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:25.640 willing to work. I'll roll with that. And that's a 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:26.800 that's a viable model. 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.440 And so think let's take that one step further, because 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:33.040 if if I am not a technical culte, not not 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:37.880 a technical founder, I'm outsourcing technical talent and then I'm 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:42.680 also raising money. The fundamental thought there is that I 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:46.320 could potentially get funded with an idea because I can't 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.720 implement the thing. And so that's that's let's take that 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:54.160 conversation like are people still being funded with just ideas? 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:59.880 Not black people? Unfortunately, unfortunately it's tough. I mean, if 0:07:59.880 --> 0:08:03.880 you are if you're a black person, if you're a woman, 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.560 if you're a black woman, each each of those it 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:08.240 just makes it. 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:11.320 Harder, right and so and not technical yeah, and not 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:12.080 say oh. 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:14.160 My gosh, you're right. So if you're not technical and 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.720 you are, you know you've got you are not a 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:20.560 white man with a network. You know, I know, I know, 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.080 you know. I used to work at a company where 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:24.600 the founder and it was part of a story I 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:28.640 got funded based on an idea, and to me that 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.920 was that was ridiculous. I mean you in the line 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:34.480 of work that we do, you know, we covered on 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:37.280 afro tech all the time, tech Crunch covers it. There 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:41.720 are so many founders and companies where you look and 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:47.040 they've raised millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars. Yeah, 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.760 and then they they just their product never takes off, 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.040 they never make any money. I mean, I can think 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.880 about all these AI companies you know that have built it, 0:08:56.960 --> 0:09:00.800 like the AI pen or the little orange looking rabbit thing, 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.240 like all these companies that raise a lot of money, 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:06.840 and they have not proven that they deserve it. And 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:11.720 you get you know, so many entrepreneurs who are non technical, 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.000 but they have good ideas, but they can't build it 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:16.560 because they're black or and because they are black or 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:18.520 they are a woman or a black woman, they don't 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:23.040 get those resources. And so really what it comes down to, 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.560 and this idea of the startup paradox, which you know 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.800 I talked about as I was mentoring people and then 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.640 I wrote this book about it, is that if you 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.400 are a non technical founder, you know, or even if 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:41.760 you are a technical founder, and you don't have the 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:47.160 luck or the luxury to just be implicitly believed discredible 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.960 like white men often have. Then building a startup is 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:55.160 going to be almost impossible unless you get creative and 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:58.640 figure out how to hack one of these resources. Right. 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:02.400 If you just got an idea, you either got to 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.439 turn that idea into a product, or you got to 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:06.800 get some customers who believe in that idea and are like, Okay, 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:10.960 I'm gonna I'll pay you to build that for mere order. Yeah, 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.400 because investors aren't going to be the ones to do 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.040 it right. So it's it's really I wouldn't bank on 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:20.280 getting funded for an idea, right, you got to somehow 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.439 either figure out how to get that product built using 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:24.960 some of the things I talk about in the book, 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:31.280 using automation, using AI, you know, using different tools as 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.000 a non technical founder that allow you to build a product. 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:36.319 Or you've got to try to build a team when 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:38.280 you don't have funding, again using some of the ways 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.680 that I talk about in the book, you know, you know, 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:45.280 bartering your skills, hiring interns or you know, finding co 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:49.360 founders or working with fractional service providers, or you got 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:50.920 to try to get some customers, right, get those pre 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.960 orders that you just mentioned, or be an entrepreneur in residents, 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.360 or you know, get somebody who is going to pay 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.920 you as a consultant to to to add value you 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.080 build the product at the same time. So those are 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:06.000 the tactics. You really got to think about. 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.520 How much does how something works matter anymore? You talked 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:14.240 about IP a little bit ago. In these days, you know, 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:16.320 I can take your idea just do it a different way, 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.920 you know, So how much does IP matter anymore? Or 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:21.600 is it the traction that matters more? 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:26.040 Yeah, so I'm gonna say traction from an investor standpoint, 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:28.720 traction is what matters. I mean, we look at businesses 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.240 all the time, and I think most of us can 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.520 probably relate to this. Apple is a good example of 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.400 a company from a just what do their products do? 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:41.679 Like the iPhone. Everybody always jokes about owing an Android. 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:45.400 You know they've had that sense, you know, twenty twelve 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:49.600 or whatever, Right, iPhone just dot, But everybody wants an iPhone, 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:54.840 right and and and so it's less of And this 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:59.240 is that's an important question because entrepreneurs have to balance this, right, 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.319 It is important that you have some defensibility to protect 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:08.960 you against bigger companies who can just steal the idea. Right, 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.520 So you want to you want to have some defensibility, 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:17.679 some intellectual property, some ingenuity that is interesting and creative 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:19.719 that protects it. But at the end of the day, 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.240 if you spend, if you focus all of your energy 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:28.880 and attention on how can I build a wheel that 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:33.760 is the most innovative and technologically advanced, will Ever, when 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.640 people just want something that's gonna you know, transport their vehicle, 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.600 make it, make it roll continuously from one point to 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.360 the other, you know you have to balance that. And 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.000 so ultimately what you need to be thinking about is 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.080 how do I get some market and get traction. And 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:52.040 that's where you've got to focus on workflow, and you've 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.600 got to focus on experience and usability. You've got to 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.720 look at as a founder, when you are looking to 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.480 build a product or into a market, the first question 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.679 you should be asking yourself is what are the opportunities 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.360 to make it easier for people to get the value 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:10.480 that they want? And value typically is about solving a problem. 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.560 And so a good example of this is with like 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:16.520 a lot of these AI startups, they're literally one hundred 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.120 that start a day, and all of them are basically 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:23.000 wrappers around chat GBT. They're all just prompting chat GBT 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.600 and doing something. So it isn't so much about whether 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.920 you've got the most innovative, innovative AI solution. It's about 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:33.600 whether you can understand what are people trying to do, 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.000 how are they trying to get from one point to 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:40.160 the next, and what is the friction there? Where is 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:45.280 it cumbersome, where is it complicated? Where is it time consuming? 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:50.680 And how can I build something? Regardless of how it works, 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.319 but the way users interact with it, it delights them 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.040 because it's simpler. Right. So that's why so many people 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.480 prefer iPhones over androids, because, yes, androids, you can do 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.640 everything under the sun, but I'm not. You know, if 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:06.600 you're not a A I don't want to do anything 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:08.599 you're not, or I don't want to I don't know 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.480 how to like root my phone and then install this 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.000 firmware and do this patch up dating. Then you don't 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.120 know what that stuff means. But the iPhone is like, yeah, 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:17.839 we came out with it ten years late. But when 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.640 you do, it's like, ah, man, that just works. That 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.120 that just works. And it's easy and it's delightful. So 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:25.680 you know, you got to focus on that market share, 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.600 and you get that by focusing on experience of your 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:29.720 users and your customers. 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:31.920 You said a couple of things that I want to 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.800 come back to, and it's ideas and making things easier 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.840 for people. It was a I think it was ev Williams, 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.280 one of the co founders of Twitter, who said this, 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:42.920 and it kind of changed the way I thought about 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.160 a lot of things, because when you're working on a startup, 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.800 you hear often, I'm sure you hear often of people 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.920 who have ideas and they want to change what people do. 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:52.960 Instead of doing what they're doing, they want to make 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.120 them do something else. And Evan he was talking about 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.760 how that's probably not the best idea because you want 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:02.240 to make it easier to do what they already want 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:05.040 to do instead of trying to get them to change behavior. 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.600 Can you talk about that from your perspective. 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.200 I love that you brought that up, because people who 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.360 believe what you're what you know, whatever is ever is 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:20.200 refuting they're always pointing to I think it was Henry 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:24.640 Ford and Steve Jobs kind of would would would would 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.880 would also mention this, which is the idea that if 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:29.240 I ask people what they want, they would have said 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.160 they wanted a faster horse, right, And so they look 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:33.560 at that and saying like, you can't ask people what 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.360 they want. You gotta you just gotta be so far 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:39.200 in the future that you built that. And really, I 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.640 think if people actually sit and look at it, when 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:44.920 when this idea of like when you ask people what 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.200 they want, what you really have to focus on is 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.360 not what product you want, because yes, people are only 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.000 constrained by what they know, but you have to focus 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:58.480 on what what problems are you trying to solve and 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.400 the problem that it's a horse or vehicle like a 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:06.760 gasoline power vehicle or a self driving vehicle. Ultimately, the 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.920 problem that that's solved is I need to get from 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:15.400 place one point to another and the distances are long, right, 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:17.720 I need to get from one place to the other. 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.480 That's the problem, right. And so if you focus on 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:22.680 if you actually look at it from that standpoint, like 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:25.240 the core problem that people are trying to solve, what 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:29.400 are those things? And then your opportunity to innovate is 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.480 in doing those is helping them do those things better? Right? 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.720 The whether it's a horse or a car or self 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:41.240 driving vehicle is just the delivery mechanism for the solution, right. 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:44.360 But you have to not focus on delivery mechanisms. You 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.920 have to focus on the actual problem and figure out 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:51.200 where's the space for innovation and that's where your ideas land. 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.680 And so what I always encourage founders to do when 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:56.200 they come to me and they have an idea, and 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.760 I would say most nine out of ten founders when 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.800 I talk to them, their idea doesn't make any sense 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.840 because it's it's it's it's a it's a problem that 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.920 only they have. And I always sit back and I say, 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.040 you know, well, what problem are you solving? Because everybody 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.520 comes and they pitch a product, they don't pitch a solution. 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:16.560 They say I'm gonna build this thing that and they 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:18.840 tell you about all the features and everything that's going 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:20.919 to do. And I always challenge them to step back 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:23.159 and say, Okay, well, what what problem are you solving? 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.159 Like what solution is? That's good? And then once they 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:30.040 get there, it's like, okay, well who has this this problem? 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:32.600 And then the last question you got to ask is like, okay, 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:35.240 is this a problem? They're willing to pay to solve 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:36.639 because I got a lot of problems that I'm not 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:38.720 going to pay any money to solve. I got a 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:40.440 lot of annoyances in my life. I got a lot 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:43.080 of things that are like, oh, somebody, if somebody fixes 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:45.800 that would be cool, but I'm not paying for it. Right, 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:49.800 So as to be an entrepreneur, that's successful. Right, you 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:51.800 want to make sure that you've you have an idea 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:56.560 that it's touching on a problem that a lot of 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:58.720 people have, and a lot of people are going to 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.680 pay to solve. Those are the ideas that make. 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.360 It and pay at enough of a rate to make 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:05.160 it make sense. 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:07.760 Exactly to pay. They're gonna pay more than it costs 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.320 you to deliver the solution, exactly. Absolutely. 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:15.159 If you could distill your entrepreneurial journey into a tweet, 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:17.040 give you that tweet. 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:25.600 Man, I will, I would. I would say this that 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:30.159 my journey is an entrepreneur. This is gonna be not 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.280 entirely accurate, but it's it's about seventy percent there. One. 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:38.040 There's this uh Kanye West line, Kanye West, not yea 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:41.120 or yeasy. This is old ye pink post all right, 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.560 So it's a lyric. Do the wrap and attract triple 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:49.359 double no assists, and deadline just always sticks out to me. 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:53.440 One now, obviously is the co founder of Blavity. I got, 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:55.400 I got a great team. One. We've got a tremendous 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.920 leader of Morgan, who is is just a workhorse, who 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.000 is a is a visionary who none of this happens 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.240 without her. So anybody is triple doubles, this is Morgan. 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:10.159 But I relate to so much to that line, not 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:13.280 to imply that I've never had help or that I 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:16.720 do this all on my own, but we as founders. 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:18.639 And what I think Morgan had to learn, what I 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.480 had to learn, what Aaron had to learn, is there's 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:25.040 no cavalry coming right. We're not gonna get the one 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:27.960 hundred million dollars just for an idea that all we 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.159 have is us in our community. And so when you 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:35.560 think about the story of Blavity and our journey as entrepreneurs, 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.120 you think about my individual journey as an entrepreneur, which 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.280 yes includes Blavity, but also includes sin Chappion. It also 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:43.919 includes you know, other things outside of Blavity that I've 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:46.600 built and I've done. I've had to be in a 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:50.399 space where I had to learn not only yes, I 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:52.560 have a technical background so I could build product, but 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.520 I had to learn how to build businesses. I have 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.320 to learn how to build financial models. I have to 0:19:57.400 --> 0:19:59.560 learn how to do sales. I had to learn how 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:02.000 to do more. Morgan had to learn how to build 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.880 product and be a product manager. Nobody taught us these things. 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.440 We didn't go to college and learn these things. We 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:09.560 had to come out and we had to not only wrap, 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:12.439 we have to make beats, we had to mix, we 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.000 had to go market, we had to go on tour. 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:16.240 We had to do it like we have to do 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.240 all of that. And so that's that's what my entrepreneurial 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:21.000 journey has been about. It's been about that hustle, and 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.919 it's been about not waiting on somebody to come and 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.639 support you, but figuring out how to do it and 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:28.600 doing it on your own. 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:34.560 How involved should a technical co founder be when they're 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.080 brought in after the idea is already thought up, Like, 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:40.080 are they I need you to come in and sit 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:42.520 in front of the keyboard or are they involved? Should 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.760 they be involved in you know the idea of flourishing 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:47.320 even further potentially? 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:53.240 Yeah, So I think that the best technology is built 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:58.480 when the people building the technology understand the business case 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:04.040 for it, because often when technologists are building in a vacuum, 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:10.320 the you know, at the end of the day, technology 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:14.560 building technology is both is an art and a science, 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:19.720 and what technologists and engineers are motivated by is a challenge. 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:25.640 And the most immediate challenge is can I build the 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:30.199 most impressive thing technically, And so if you're in a 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.080 vacuum as a technologist, that's what you're going to do. 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:36.480 But as we just talked about, you know, it isn't 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:41.840 necessarily do you have the best advanced back end thing. 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:45.480 It's about can you build a business retraction? And so 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:48.600 the more you can get the people building the technology 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:52.480 closer to the business and at the very least understanding 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:55.520 what the challenge is there so that they can get 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:59.560