1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 3: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 3: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: Well, he's a legitimate super genius, I mean legitimate. He 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year it 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: will be different. He'll vote Republican. There is a reason 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: the US government is so reliant on him. 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 4: Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 10 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: Anything he does, he's fascinating people. 11 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 2: Welcome to Elaning Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's 12 00:00:54,880 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 2: February twenty, twenty twenty four. I'm your host, David Popotopolis. Starlink, 13 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 2: SpaceX's satellite internet unit, is in the news once again. Recently, 14 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 2: Ukraine came out and said that the Russians have gotten 15 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: their hands on the satellites and are using them on 16 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 2: the battlefield. Meanwhile, in Israel, the government of Benjamin Nett 17 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 2: and Yahoo has awarded Starlink a contract to operate in 18 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 2: the country and in the Gaza Strip. There are enormous 19 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 2: geopolitical consequences and a lot of money potentially at stake 20 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 2: for Starlink to do the money side of it. We're 21 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: going to have Ed Ludlow on later. Ed is the 22 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 2: co host of the Bloomberg Tech TV show. We're going 23 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 2: to start with the geopolitics and Bloomberg opinion writer Mark Champion. 24 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: Welcome, Mark, Thank you. 25 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 2: Mark. Let's just pan out for a second here and 26 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: for the uninitiated, help us understand what exactly starlink satellites 27 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 2: are and how they work. 28 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 5: Yeah. 29 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 3: So, basically, it's a satellite web connection, so it allows 30 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 3: you to use the Internet wherever you are. You're not 31 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 3: reliant on cables or local transmitter sell data you have. 32 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 3: There are thousands, I think the number is five thousand 33 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 3: or so satellites in orbit and they have constant coverage 34 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 3: and wherever you are you can use that system. 35 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 2: Okay, Mark, So you recently wrote that Musk went from 36 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 2: being Ukraine's accidental hero to Moscow's accidental hero. 37 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: Explain. 38 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I've often said that it must doesn't 39 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 3: actually get enough credit for at the very beginning of 40 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 3: the war in Ukraine very quickly getting starlink units in 41 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 3: their thousands to the Ukrainians. Because what happened in the 42 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 3: early hours of the Russian invasion was that the first 43 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 3: thing that they did, as would always be the case 44 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 3: in this kind of military operation, was to take out 45 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 3: the Ukrainian communications systems, so the Ukrainians were blind and 46 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 3: the provision of Starlink enabled them to So it was 47 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 3: immensely important, and he was, you know, truly a hero 48 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 3: in Ukraine at the time because it was well understood 49 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 3: just how important that was. 50 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 2: The war presumably would have ended a long time ago 51 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 2: had that decision not been made. 52 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean it's you know, that's a counterfactual. So 53 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 3: it's hard to say exactly what would have happened. I mean, 54 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 3: the Russian has made so many mistakes that and so 55 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,799 Speaker 3: many people almost everybody was wrong about how the war 56 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 3: was going to go in the first day, so you know, 57 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 3: I hesitate to say, yeah, yeah, I know what would 58 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 3: have happened, but it would have been far more difficult 59 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 3: for the Ukrainians to survive militarily. 60 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: Okay. So that was the beginning, and now Mosque is 61 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: Moscow's accidental hero. 62 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 3: The point is that he has over appeared. This has 63 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 3: happened gradually and over a period of the war, which 64 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 3: is now we were two years into it. He has 65 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 3: gradually seemed more and more like he feels he's on 66 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: the wrong side in helping Ukraine, and you if you 67 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 3: look at what he says on Twitter, if you look 68 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 3: at what he says, you know, most recently he's really 69 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 3: sort of come out swinging if you like. You know, 70 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 3: he's held a live stream with Republican senators who are 71 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 3: on the kind of Trump side of the Republican Party, 72 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 3: and they were, you know, collectively talking about why it 73 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 3: is that the US should stop funding the war. And 74 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 3: at this point, part of that funding actually goes to 75 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 3: SpaceX for Starlink because it's you know, it's become a 76 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 3: Pentagon contract. So you know, at this point, by now 77 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 3: he is very much arguing against support for Ukraine, and 78 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 3: he often seems to be parroting Vladimir Putin's talking points. 79 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 2: Actually, Mark, Yeah, we have some of that audio from 80 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: Musk talking about the war right here. 81 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: As you said, there is no way in hell that 82 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: Putin is going to lose. If you were to back off, 83 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: he would be assassinated. 84 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 5: And for those who want resume change in Russia, they 85 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 5: should think about who is the person that should take 86 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 5: out Putin and is that person likely to be a 87 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 5: peace neck. 88 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: Probably not. They're probably going to be even more hardcore 89 00:04:58,360 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: than Putin if they took him out. 90 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: So Mark Musk is taking this stance, He's taking this tack. 91 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: Putin himself recently called Elon smart and unstoppable. Is Elon 92 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,119 Speaker 2: actually influencing anything here? 93 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: Well, Musk is enormously influential. 94 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 3: It doesn't just you know, you give the starlink to 95 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 3: the Ukrainians and you know, and then you walk away. 96 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 3: The Ukrainians can only use it in the way that 97 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 3: Musk allows them to use it, and he has at 98 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 3: various times restricted the use of the starlink, you know, 99 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 3: where it can operate quite famously. At one point he 100 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 3: declined to extend the area to include Crimea so that 101 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 3: they could conduct an operation there. He also, at various 102 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 3: times the Ukrainians, when it went on the offensive, suddenly 103 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 3: found that they were without communications because he had cut 104 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 3: off beyond their front line, saying that, you know, it 105 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 3: shouldn't be used for offensive purposes. So yes, he's immensely influential. 106 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 3: You know, more broadly, world politicians, don't you know, don't 107 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 3: say call me back when Elon Musk makes a call. 108 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 3: The man is is listened to both because of his 109 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 3: wealth and because of what it is that his business does. 110 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 3: Starlink and SpaceX geopolitically important. 111 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 2: So Ukraine contends that the Russians now also have managed 112 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 2: to get their hands on these Starlink satellites, they would 113 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 2: not be purchasing them directly from Starlink. Is that correctly? 114 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'd be astounded if Starlink, if SpaceX 115 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 3: was selling these things to the Russians directly, because that 116 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 3: would put them in direct contravention of US sanctions, which 117 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 3: you know that carries you know, criminal charges and massive 118 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 3: potential fines. 119 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: So you know, they would have to be truly stupid 120 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: to do such a thing. 121 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 3: And you know, the other hand, you know, it's impossible 122 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 3: to verify what the Ukrainian intelligence agencies are putting out. 123 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 2: Right, so there is no independent corroboration to what Ukraine 124 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 2: says is. 125 00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: True at the moment. 126 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 3: No, And you know, on the other hand, I would 127 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 3: be surprised if the Russians weren't trying to get Starlink. 128 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 3: It's a valuable useful tool on the front lines, and 129 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 3: you know, if they can get you know, highly sophisticated 130 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 3: microchips still to put in their missiles then from Western 131 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 3: companies via third countries, evading sanctions. That wouldn't surpise me 132 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 3: at all if they can get starlink, So you know, 133 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 3: I don't think it should be an enormous surprise. I 134 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 3: think the question for Musk, you know, when he answers 135 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 3: these things, you know, it's basically the answer is, to 136 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 3: the best of our knowledge, we are not, you know, 137 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 3: selling these things directly to Russia or indirectly. But I 138 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 3: think it's in a way the wrong question. The right 139 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 3: question is, Okay, if these things are being sold, are 140 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 3: you interested? I mean do you want to find out? 141 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 3: And are you doing anything to stop it? Which I 142 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,239 Speaker 3: think would be the better question for Musk. 143 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 2: You A min ago said that these satellites are very 144 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 2: important on the front line in terms of the ranking 145 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 2: of military equipment used in the battlefield there in Ukraine. 146 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: Where do they rank? I mean, are these things more 147 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 2: important than missiles? They more important in tanks? Are they 148 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 2: sort of a middle of the road sort of tool? 149 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 2: Just where do they stack up? 150 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 3: It's hard to rank military equipment simply because you know 151 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 3: they work as a network. Tanks are no good without 152 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 3: the troops and other equipment to protect them. Howitzers are 153 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 3: no good without the surveillance in order to find the 154 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 3: targets and so on. So but having said that, you know, 155 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 3: if you were going to say, well, what are the 156 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,559 Speaker 3: most important pieces of equipment you know in this war, 157 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 3: starlink would be right up there for the Ukrainians because 158 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 3: the war for them it depends on being more accurate 159 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 3: than the Russians because they have less ammunition, They have 160 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 3: fewer how it'z is, they have fewer tanks, so they 161 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 3: have to make every shell count more and they've been 162 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 3: quite successful at that, you know, for most of the time. 163 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 3: It's becoming desperate at this point because they're running out 164 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 3: of immunition, so it becomes even more. 165 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: Important without starlink. The drones don't work. 166 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 3: Without the drones, they are naked, they are blind, so 167 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 3: they can't see. 168 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 2: So describe to us just a little bit more this 169 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 2: seemingly symbiotic relationship right now between Vladimir Putin and Elon Musk? 170 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 2: Is it mutually beneficial? 171 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: It certainly is. For Vladimir Putin. 172 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 3: Musk is massively important and influential in the US. 173 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 1: You know, he now owns the. 174 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 3: Twitter platform, that is influential, you know, in the political 175 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 3: classes in the US. So for Putin is definitely very 176 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 3: beneficial for what exactly it is that Elon. 177 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: Musk gets out of this. 178 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 3: And you know why he's so interested, I really don't know. 179 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 3: I don't know what his political ambitions might be. I 180 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 3: don't know whether he has you know, business that he 181 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 3: wants to do in Russia. You know his motivations I'm 182 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 3: much less clear about. But what is clear he's clearly 183 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 3: a brilliant businessman. But when you listen to some of 184 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 3: the things he says about Ukraine and Russia and so on, 185 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 3: it's politically he is kindly I would say, naive. He 186 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 3: has the opportunity to be well informed and to be 187 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 3: more cautious and cynical in dealing with a man or skeptical, 188 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 3: I should say, dealing with a man like Putin. If 189 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 3: you know career KGB agent. 190 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 5: And you argue he just chooses not to be I 191 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 5: would say that, you know, I can only guess whether 192 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 5: he doesn't really understand that he's being played, or whether 193 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 5: he chooses this is a role that he's chosen. 194 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: I can't say. 195 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 2: And what mark is our understanding in terms of how 196 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 2: it's going to be used in Israel and parts of 197 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: the Gaza Strip that the government of Benjamin Natan Yahoo 198 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,839 Speaker 2: just awarded Starlink a contract. There any early sense of 199 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 2: its deployment. 200 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, what they said is that it's going to you know, 201 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 3: the Israelis are going to approve each starlink unit on 202 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 3: a case by case basis, and the one unit that 203 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 3: we know so far that has been approved and that's 204 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 3: what just happened, is that it will go to a 205 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 3: hospital field hospital. 206 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: Run by the United Arab Emirates in Gaza. 207 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 3: So that specific starlink because what the Israeli say they're 208 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 3: concerned about is that anything that they just hand over 209 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 3: into Gaza to you know, rant and say if they 210 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 3: just say, give it to international aid organizations in the 211 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 3: same way that fuel designed for international aid organizations then 212 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 3: gets taken by Hamas. They're afraid that starlink that can 213 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 3: get taken. And one of the first things, again this 214 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 3: always happens in war, first things that the IDF did 215 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 3: when it went into the Gaza Strip was to knock 216 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 3: out communications and that of course affects everybody, the IDEAF 217 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 3: being the see Israel Defense Forces. Yeah, so it's you 218 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 3: know that's there's one unit, and the presumption is that 219 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 3: there will be more given to hospitals and so on, 220 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 3: so that the ideas that you can have are sort 221 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 3: of you know, if you have a hospital which is 222 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 3: understaffed with specialists in a surgery, you can be in 223 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 3: real time, you know, having remote help in this surgery 224 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 3: in a field hospital somewhere from you know, another part 225 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 3: of GS or from another place in the world. So 226 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 3: it is important and you know, in humanitarian terms, you 227 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 3: know it was necessary to do something like this, and 228 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 3: you know, you again you have to give Musk his 229 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 3: due for doing it and wanting to do it and 230 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 3: being willing to He's the only guy who has this 231 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 3: stuff at the moment. 232 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 2: That is true. Right while he was doing all these 233 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: other things Tesla and the Boring Company and Neuralink and 234 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 2: all that he did, he did create this within SpaceX, 235 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 2: This this little satellite unit that is booming and is 236 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 2: being used all over the world. Mark last question for 237 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 2: you before I let you go, is this. At the beginning, 238 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 2: we talked about how he went from being Ukraine's accidental 239 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 2: hero to Moscow's accidental hero. And I guess the term 240 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:53,359 Speaker 2: accidental strikes me is interesting and I wonder if generally 241 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 2: broadly speaking, as Elon has become this enormously important geopolitical player, 242 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 2: this is something that you Mark Champion, think he has 243 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: stumbled into accidentally or when he formed the constellation of 244 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 2: companies that he was forming. If in his mind this 245 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 2: was always going to be part of who he was 246 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 2: and who his empire was going to be. 247 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 3: I think that would require him to be a sort 248 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 3: of bond villain, which I don't think is the case. 249 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 3: The reason I used the word accidental heroes, I mean, like, 250 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 3: he had no idea that Putin was going to invade 251 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 3: Ukraine in this way, and I'm sure he's not in 252 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 3: the military. He wouldn't have thought, ah, yes, so the 253 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 3: first thing that we'll do is the communications get knocked out, 254 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 3: and then you know It's what happened was that the 255 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 3: Ukrainians reached out to him. 256 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: You know. I talked to the Digital. 257 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 3: Transformation Minister as a guy who reached out, you know, 258 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 3: and and messaged him and said can we get starting 259 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 3: We desperately need it, and he agreed. So in that sense, 260 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 3: it was accidental. But what has happened since is that 261 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 3: I think is the war between Russia and Ukraine has 262 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,199 Speaker 3: become political in the US, and musk is at this 263 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 3: point deeply political. So at this point, you know, he 264 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 3: has kind of changed his view about what he's doing 265 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 3: there because he actually, you know, politically, he is on 266 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 3: the other side, and so it's kind of, you know, 267 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 3: at this point, kind of uncomfortable for him. 268 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: So I think it's been a journey. 269 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 2: Really, Mark, great having you on. We appreciate it, and 270 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 2: we'll have you on again, Zim, Thank you very much. Okay, 271 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 2: so we are now joined by Ed Ludlow, Bloomberg Tech 272 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 2: reporter and the host of the Bloomberg Tech TV show. Okay, 273 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 2: so we got a good sense there from Mark of 274 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 2: Starlink's growing role across the world. But now tell us 275 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 2: just how much of that growing reach is flowing into 276 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 2: the company's finances. You know, what does it look like 277 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 2: there within Starlink? 278 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's easy, you just say that. In twenty twenty four, 279 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 4: Starlink becomes the more important part of SpaceX. Right that 280 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 4: we know SpaceX as the company that cracked rocket reusability, 281 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 4: sending rockets into orbit and then landing the boosters safely 282 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 4: back down on Earth. And that changed the economics of 283 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 4: literally rocket science. But to this point it's been pretty 284 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 4: even that the sales or revenue contribution that that activity 285 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 4: sending payloads into orbit has relative to starlink. And you know, 286 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 4: what we've reported in the last twelve months or so 287 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 4: is that Starlink's really growing. And so this is the 288 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 4: moment where where I think starlink exceeds the launch business 289 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 4: in terms of its revenue contribution. And we know the 290 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 4: long term picture is that starlink is this cash cow 291 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 4: that feeds Elon Musk's even bigger ambitions, which is mankind 292 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 4: to be an interplanetary species. 293 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: Now, I mean, it's super interesting to me because the 294 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 2: sense that I've had here from listening to other pundits 295 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 2: on the topic maybe they had just it was a misread, 296 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 2: was that it just wasn't clear that starlink was ever 297 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 2: going to be that big a part of the business. 298 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 2: Was it always understood that starlink was going to be 299 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 2: the beast within SpaceX that actually drove the ship, or 300 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 2: was it something that as they started rolling it out 301 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 2: and using it, whether they be military applications as Mark 302 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 2: was talking about, or other more traditional civil applications, it 303 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 2: just turned into this big beast that they hadn't quite 304 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 2: anticipated to. 305 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 4: Really understand how quickly starlink has kind of commercialized. Just 306 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 4: go on the website and click through and look at 307 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 4: all of the different ways that if you're a consumer, 308 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 4: a single individual consumer, or you're a business a commercial 309 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 4: customer that you can access starlink. You can have the 310 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 4: starlink ground receiver formally installed in your home. You can 311 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 4: get a smaller version that you throw in your backpack 312 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 4: when you're hiking the sierras here in California. You can 313 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 4: have it on your boat if you really want. All 314 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 4: of these are products that SpaceX offers. And on the 315 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 4: other side, the commercial side, they built that up out 316 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 4: quickly as well, you know, starting with starlink for businesses 317 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 4: slightly higher scale than a residential home, right through to 318 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 4: now offering you know, starlink on aeroplanes, commercial airlines. And 319 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,719 Speaker 4: I think that has taken some people by surprise how 320 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 4: quickly they've built out the product, both the hardware and 321 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 4: the subscription software product. And as you say, and Mark 322 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:28,479 Speaker 4: kind of outlined so perfectly, is a defense technology. It 323 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 4: has become a really big story in the last twelve months. 324 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 4: What I would say, though, is that you know, Elon 325 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 4: Musk is always positioned, to my mind at least Starlink 326 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 4: at the center of what helps SpaceX reach its ultimate goals. 327 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 4: That even though they had to put billions and billions 328 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 4: and will have to put billions more dollars into the 329 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 4: Starlink constellation to get it to a scale that they 330 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 4: want to fund their future goals, you know, it's now 331 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 4: really making some meaningful money. If the comments of Musk 332 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 4: and his lieutenant to be believed, it is. 333 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 2: The thing that throws off the cash going forward day 334 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 2: in in day out, that finances musks greater ambitions and dreams. 335 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, the way that Musk has explained it in the 336 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 4: past is that the launch business, in other words, carrying 337 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 4: satellite payloads for third parties or humans the International Space Station, 338 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 4: that business probably tops out at around three billion dollars 339 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 4: of sales a year. But if you think about it, 340 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 4: once you've gone through the pain of the CAPEX and 341 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 4: literally the process of putting thousands of Starlink satellites into orbit, 342 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 4: it's actually then a very high margin business. It is 343 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 4: a data business, a software business, and you know Mark 344 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 4: gave a really simple and fantastic explanation of how it works. 345 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 4: But think of it from a consumer's perspective. Right, you 346 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 4: have a one time hardware cost your ground receiver, which 347 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 4: is about five hundred bucks, and then I don't know 348 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 4: what you pay Comcast or your Internet too much but 349 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 4: too much exactly, But the starlink costs are comparable. It's 350 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 4: a subscription anywhere from say one hundred to one hundred 351 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 4: and fifty dollars a month, and that recurring revenue makes 352 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 4: it a very exciting and attractive business model. Just keep 353 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 4: in the back of your mind that that's almost not 354 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 4: a priority for Musk and SpaceX. You know, they see 355 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 4: this as the not ei, the catalyst or even the 356 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 4: engine that gets them to this, to mankind or humankind 357 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 4: being on Mars. 358 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 5: Ed. 359 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 2: Do we have a sense of what SpaceX is worth 360 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 2: right now as we speak, and if so, just what 361 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 2: part of that valuation does starlink represent. 362 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 363 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 4: So, the latest that we reported is SpaceX is valued 364 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 4: by investors at about one hundred and eighty billion dollars, 365 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 4: which makes it quite by some distance, the kind of 366 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 4: most valuable private company. And what we reported is based 367 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 4: on a tender or secondary offer that the company's doing 368 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 4: where they allow employees who have been there a really 369 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 4: long time and have stock as part of their compensation 370 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 4: to sell those private shares directly to investors. SpaceX doesn't 371 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 4: get any money out of it. It's just a liquidity 372 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 4: event for the staff. But as part of the mechanics 373 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 4: of it, SpaceX and those potential investors still have to 374 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 4: agree a price. And that share price, we believe is 375 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 4: around ninety seven dollars a share, valuing the company at 376 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 4: one hundred and eighty billion, and it's a big jump 377 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 4: right from the one hundred and fifty billion that we 378 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 4: reported just earlier in twenty twenty three. Starlink accounts for 379 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 4: a big chunk of it. We're waiting on this idea 380 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 4: of a spinoff or an IPO. There is no sort 381 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 4: of publicly reported breakdown. All I can tell you is 382 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 4: that we think that revenue in twenty four will be 383 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,239 Speaker 4: around fifteen billion dollars and around ten billion of that 384 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 4: will come from Starlink. And it gives you a sense 385 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 4: proportionately of the contribution of Starlink to SpaceX's overall business. 386 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's it's it's yeah, it's it's an enormous 387 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 2: part the majority of that revenue. So one hundred and 388 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 2: eighty billion dollars makes it the second biggest company within 389 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 2: the Musk Empire, only trailing Tesla, which is even after 390 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 2: its recent sell off, I think, is still north of 391 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 2: six hundred billion dollars. Tesla, course is a publicly traded company. 392 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 2: So you just said that SpaceX is by far the 393 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 2: most valuable private company valuation of one hundred and eighty 394 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 2: billion dollars, you mean to say that nowhere in the 395 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 2: US is there a privately held company worth more than that? 396 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 397 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 4: Yeah, And what's so astonishing about that as well, is 398 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 4: that in the two or three years that we've reported 399 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 4: SpaceX's steep climb evaluation, some of the companies that were 400 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 4: kind of gunning for comparable evaluation, think about like Stripe 401 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 4: for example, they have seen their valuations come down in 402 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 4: down rounds. But it goes back to original question, which 403 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 4: is what is driving that value upward is anticipation around Starlink, 404 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 4: the idea that Starlink will be the biggest contributor, but 405 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 4: also like if there's going to be a big Starlink 406 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 4: IPO or spinoff, you want to get in where you can, 407 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 4: you know, if you're if you're a venture capital firm 408 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 4: or a big private market private growth equity investor. One 409 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 4: thing I would say to you as well is, you know, 410 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 4: look at some of the reporting Bloomberg's done around Xai 411 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,719 Speaker 4: boring Co. There's just an insatiable appetite to back an 412 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 4: Elon Musk company. He ain't got no problems raising money. 413 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: They want they want their hands on that data and 414 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 2: those flows. Yeah, and so give me starlink. Hell, if 415 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 2: Musk makes it to Mars with with the rockets, god 416 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 2: bless them, that's great. But how do you like, if 417 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 2: I'm an investor, how exactly do I monetize that day 418 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 2: in and day. 419 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, And there's a lot of misconception and frankly poor 420 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 4: reporting out there. You know, SpaceX is a private company, 421 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 4: and there are shared of the private entity in existence. 422 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 4: If you are an investor, and in Elon Musk's world, 423 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 4: those are sort of big legacy financial institutions that invest 424 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 4: through mutual funds. Then you sit on the cat table 425 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 4: and you get access to shares in what's called a 426 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 4: primary round. But SpaceX has actually been around for quite 427 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 4: a long time now, and as is the case in 428 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 4: global silicon valley. Its employees and staff are compensated in 429 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 4: the form of RSUs or stock restricted stock options or 430 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 4: stock units. And what is so astonishing about this is 431 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 4: that you can't buy a share in starlink. You can 432 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 4: just SpaceX as the whole company, but there is just 433 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 4: an insatiable appetite to get in while you can. 434 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 2: So even though these are a privately held company that 435 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 2: is not publicly traded on any kind of exchange, these 436 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 2: correct these shares held by top ranking employees and other 437 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: investors are somewhat actively traded. 438 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 4: Yes, And it's a phenomenon that we aren't talking about 439 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 4: enough that suddenly a completely a liquid market became quite 440 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 4: liquid in twenty twenty three. There are different ways that 441 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 4: you can do it, so SpaceX is conscious that it 442 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 4: wants to keep its top talent. So what it does 443 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 4: is a secondary round or a tender offer, in which 444 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 4: it offers the opportunity for those employees to sell their 445 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 4: shares directly to an investor. The company doesn't raise any 446 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 4: money from it, but it allows evaluation to be agreed 447 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,719 Speaker 4: because you have to agree on the price of those shares, 448 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 4: and there are all these secondary market makers that advertise 449 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 4: this is the opportunity get an investment in SpaceX while 450 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 4: you can before an eventual stylin KPO. And it's wild. 451 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,719 Speaker 4: It's been a really, really wild story. 452 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 2: So you and some of our other reporters here at 453 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 2: Bloomberg reported a little while back that indeed it was 454 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 2: possible that Musk was going to pull Starlink out of 455 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 2: and spin it off and sell it in an IPO 456 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 2: this year. What do we know about where those plans 457 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 2: stand now? All that I remember is hearing Musk pushback 458 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: again and again and again. No, I am not selling 459 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 2: Starlink anytime soon. Purge that thought from your brain? Should 460 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 2: I purge the start from my brain? 461 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 4: I think you should be open minded to the idea 462 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 4: that it would happen at any time in the next 463 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 4: few years. And what Elon Musk has said is there's 464 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 4: no point spinning off starlink, making it its own publicly 465 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 4: traded entity without cash flow being predictable. You know, as 466 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 4: we've talked about, they're putting billions of dollars of investment 467 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 4: into the Starlink program to build out the constellation. The 468 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 4: ground receiver that the consumer buys is about five hundred bucks. 469 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 4: But most people think that that's probably a discount. In 470 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 4: other words, SpaceX are subsidizing the cost of that hardware 471 00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 4: so you can get it out into the real world. 472 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 4: So we reported that a spin off could be possible 473 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 4: as very late twenty twenty four, this year, more likely 474 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 4: twenty twenty five. That is something that must disputed. He 475 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 4: said it was false, and you know it's part of 476 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 4: this broader narrative that he uses the word several years 477 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 4: away when that cash flow is more predictable. 478 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,719 Speaker 2: And very final thing hit us with one Elon Musk 479 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 2: universe prediction for twenty twenty four. What you guy did. 480 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think Musk wades into the US election in 481 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 4: a way that we don't expect. You know, that might 482 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 4: be a pretty dry answer, but you know it's I 483 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 4: am not a US citizen, as I've talked about publicly 484 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 4: before Musk, and I wasn't born in the United States. 485 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 4: I'm aware that there are rules around this, but you know, 486 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 4: stranger things have happened, you know, go back to your 487 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 4: last question. The one thing I've learned about Elon Musk 488 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 4: since I moved to California six years ago is be 489 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 4: open minded to the things that people tell you won't happen, 490 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 4: because in his case, they constantly happen, you know, whether 491 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 4: it's the Optimus robot or the success they've had with 492 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 4: SpaceX or Cyberstruck, they happen. So the reason to focus 493 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 4: on the US election is what Mark was talking about, right, 494 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 4: He is a political beast, and you know, his narrative 495 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 4: as it regards to President Biden former President Trump has 496 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 4: changed slightly. You know, he's been public that he voted 497 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 4: for Biden in the last election and was previously a 498 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 4: supporter of Biden. I think many of us would agree 499 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 4: he is no longer a supporter of President Biden. He's 500 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 4: increasingly focused on the border as a policy issue that 501 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,439 Speaker 4: he talks about almost daily. 502 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: Where's that going? 503 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 4: You know what happens And again go back to him 504 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 4: who he is and his ownership of X that gives 505 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 4: him this big voice. And I think that that's what 506 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 4: happens in twenty twenty four the U s election. 507 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 2: So you think he comes out in outright support and 508 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 2: backs Donald Trump. 509 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 4: I think it's something we should be open minded to 510 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 4: or or depending what happens with the republic and candidacy. 511 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 4: As many people in Silicon Valley do, you know, they 512 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 4: back a candidate that they think reflects the views of 513 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 4: Silicon Valley. I don't know the answer. I just have 514 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 4: a feeling. 515 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 2: All right, that's enough. Thanks for listening to Elon Inc. 516 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 2: And thanks to. 517 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: Ed Ludlow, thanks for having me. 518 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Stacy Wang. Naomi Shaven and 519 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 2: Rayhana Harmantier are senior editors. The idea for this very 520 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 2: show also came from Rayhan Blake Maple's Handles Engineering, and 521 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 2: we get special editing assistants from Jeff Grocott. Our supervising 522 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 2: producer is Magnus Henrickson. Huge thanks as always to Joel Weber. 523 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 2: The Elon Inc. Theme is written and performed by Taka 524 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 2: Yasuzawa and Alex Sugi Eira. Sage Bauman is a head 525 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 2: of Bloomberg Podcast and our executive producer. I am David Papadoppolis. 526 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 2: If you have a minute, rate and review our show, 527 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 2: it'll help other listeners find us. See you next week.