Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wike AF Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, still recording from San Francisco
Speaker 1: as Amicron takes control over New York and the country
Speaker 1: for that matter, folks, I want to start off by
Speaker 1: talking about, yes, the pandemic that we are not over
Speaker 1: yet and actually are experiencing our fourth wave. You know,
Speaker 1: it's really interesting to me sometimes when I have the
Speaker 1: opportunity to be watching what is happening across the country
Speaker 1: when I'm not usually at home right and so right now,
Speaker 1: I am in um. I am in a place where
Speaker 1: I came to San Francisco for a retreat. Everyone is
Speaker 1: testing every single day to make sure that we are
Speaker 1: all safe and we can be together. What is a
Speaker 1: parent right now about Omicron is that it is Hella
Speaker 1: Hella contagious. It is making Alpha look like, oh, I
Speaker 1: don't know, the Christmas fairy. It is incredible how fast
Speaker 1: this is spreading. There are countless people that I know
Speaker 1: who have been vaccinated, who have been boosted, who have
Speaker 1: now been infected. And what I will say about this
Speaker 1: is that my hope is that the death toll does
Speaker 1: not begin to skyrocket. But we also have to understand
Speaker 1: that twenty five percent of the fucking population still is
Speaker 1: not vaccinated, and so if they are not vaccinated, right
Speaker 1: and we have more virus that is in the air
Speaker 1: that is spreading faster than we had ever seen before.
Speaker 1: I mean, what do we think is going to happen?
Speaker 1: How far down in the Greek alphabet are we looking
Speaker 1: to get? And right now I look at the news
Speaker 1: and I'm seeing lines at city mds, at health centers
Speaker 1: in New York that are wrapped around the corner. And
Speaker 1: I'm having PTSD from twenty twenty when I was standing
Speaker 1: out in line for six hours in order to get tested.
Speaker 1: It's insane. What is happening right now? There is a
Speaker 1: lack of home testing kits, right, So that's number one.
Speaker 1: That's something that we've never seen in mass production at
Speaker 1: this particular point. Right now, we are the Governor of
Speaker 1: New York is as saying that these health clinics need
Speaker 1: to stay open for longer hours to make up now
Speaker 1: for the demand that we are seeing once again. And
Speaker 1: it is incredibly troubling. I cannot, folks, for the life
Speaker 1: of me, wrap my mind and try and make sense
Speaker 1: of the fact that if the right measures had been
Speaker 1: taken from the jump. If we had encouraged people to
Speaker 1: take care of themselves, to wear masks, to social distance
Speaker 1: as a patriotic act, as a neighborly act, if you
Speaker 1: are a religious person, as a religious act, like whatever
Speaker 1: the fuck it was that we needed to do, that
Speaker 1: the Trump administration needed to do as opposed to lying
Speaker 1: to the public, as opposed to telling them that it
Speaker 1: was a hoax and continuing to do so. I would
Speaker 1: need to read you this thing. I pulled it up,
Speaker 1: and I gotta tell you, I'm just so fucking sick
Speaker 1: and tired of Republicans, of this white supremacist party, of
Speaker 1: these anti fucking vaxers, of the fact that the FCC
Speaker 1: won't shut down Fox News for spreading misinformation and causing
Speaker 1: mass death, Like I'm just so tired of it. But
Speaker 1: Robert F. Kennedy Junior, one of the biggest fucking anti
Speaker 1: vaccine conspiracy theorists, who of course is a fucking grifter right,
Speaker 1: has an anti vaccine group called Children's Health Defense, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, according to the Politico, doubled its revenue
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty to six point eight million dollars. Listen
Speaker 1: to this piece of shit. He was having a holiday
Speaker 1: party at his home in California, and this anti vaxer
Speaker 1: sends out a virtual invite that ask people his guests
Speaker 1: coming in to either get tested or get vaccinated. So
Speaker 1: it's okay, right to make sure that his little circle
Speaker 1: of friends is safe and good to come and spend
Speaker 1: spread holiday cheer and not COVID at his home. But
Speaker 1: when he has a microphone in front of him, when
Speaker 1: he is on any news station, he says the complete
Speaker 1: and total opposite, And of course, when called out on
Speaker 1: his hypocrisy, he of course blames it on his wife
Speaker 1: and says, oh, I guess I'm always the boss at
Speaker 1: my own house, you asshole. When are these people going
Speaker 1: to ever be held accountable for the fact that they've
Speaker 1: caused over eight hundred thousand deaths? And yes, I'm saying
Speaker 1: that they have caused over eight hundred thousand deaths because
Speaker 1: as if millions of Americans weren't under the hypnotism of
Speaker 1: Fox News and the right wing, then we wouldn't have
Speaker 1: this pro this pro COVID movement right there wouldn't be
Speaker 1: people saying that it's my liberty to spread disease right
Speaker 1: in the same way. It's just I, folks, I'm outdone,
Speaker 1: and I'm outdone because I'm watching friends of mine right
Speaker 1: contract COVID who have done all of the right things.
Speaker 1: But because now we have a variant that is evading vaccines,
Speaker 1: we have a variant that is aggressive. Now. It may
Speaker 1: not be aggressive as of right now in terms of
Speaker 1: the symptoms that you are getting because you are vaccinated
Speaker 1: and boosted, but that doesn't mean that it's not going
Speaker 1: to mutate, because, as I keep saying, and as we
Speaker 1: keep learning through the doctors that we have on bokay
Speaker 1: f that that's what viruses do, and that the more
Speaker 1: virus that is in the air, the more likely that
Speaker 1: it will mutate. Right. I just want people to be
Speaker 1: held responsible when they commit crimes. That's it. I want
Speaker 1: them to be held responsible when it is crimes against
Speaker 1: the nation the way I want. I want us to
Speaker 1: handle white men the same way we do every other
Speaker 1: fucking race, particularly black people, who are fucking innocent, who
Speaker 1: are just trying to exist on this planet, in this country,
Speaker 1: and who are not afforded the right to do so.
Speaker 1: But these people, these arch villains, who are responsible for
Speaker 1: spreading lines that have literally cost people their lives. Nothing
Speaker 1: is happening to them, So why wouldn't they stop? Why
Speaker 1: would they stop? They're able to grift off of it,
Speaker 1: They're able to get fame off of it. What would
Speaker 1: compel them to do anything? Why? Like, in the most
Speaker 1: litigious society, why the fuck aren't these people being sued?
Speaker 1: This is the question that I keep asking every single
Speaker 1: day with no answer. You know, later in the show,
Speaker 1: Glenn Kirshner rejoins us after being absent for a week
Speaker 1: or so, And you know, I got to tell you
Speaker 1: that Glenn over damn near now the past two years
Speaker 1: has really been a beacon and a voice for justice
Speaker 1: and hope. And Glenn, you will be able to hear
Speaker 1: the frustration, the exasperation in his voice right as he
Speaker 1: is like, I do not know what my former colleagues
Speaker 1: at the Department of Justice are doing. I do not know.
Speaker 1: He's like, I want to have blind faith right that
Speaker 1: they are organizing and getting ready to do the right thing.
Speaker 1: But folks, we've been sitting around for almost a year.
Speaker 1: We are coming up on the year anniversary of the insurrection,
Speaker 1: and there are only a handful of people that are
Speaker 1: in jail right now, only a handful of people that
Speaker 1: are in jail for a collection of a couple of
Speaker 1: years for trying to overthrow the government. But those that
Speaker 1: were the architects, the masterminds that created the blueprints and
Speaker 1: the text chains and did all of the work, created
Speaker 1: war rooms. They're selling books, they're selling shows, they're getting
Speaker 1: anointed by CNN to take plumb positions. So tell me
Speaker 1: again how it is that we're a nation that tells
Speaker 1: little kids as we're raising them, be good, right, do
Speaker 1: the right thing for what? Because in this country you're
Speaker 1: rewarded for being bad. And the more that we see
Speaker 1: that happen, the more that we see bad people be
Speaker 1: rewarded and get to continually move up for doing the
Speaker 1: wrong things right, then why would anybody else decide to
Speaker 1: do the right thing? What? Just to pack themselves on
Speaker 1: the back. You're not rewarded in this country for following
Speaker 1: the rules. You're not rewarded for uplifting the constitution. You're
Speaker 1: not celebrated for wanting to create more equity and justice. No,
Speaker 1: you get a target on your back. You have colleagues
Speaker 1: in Congress trying to literally kill each other, not each other.
Speaker 1: Excuse me, Republicans in Congress, bragging and putting targets on
Speaker 1: the backs of their Democratic colleagues because they don't like
Speaker 1: their religion, they don't like their complexion, they don't like
Speaker 1: their melanin. You know, I'll ask Glenn, which is this?
Speaker 1: The fact is that you have Runda Santis, who everyone
Speaker 1: wants to kind of shrug off, and I call him
Speaker 1: death Santis. But it's not because I'm being dismissed above him.
Speaker 1: It's because I I think that the man is a murderer.
Speaker 1: Be of Ronda santists, who a couple of weeks ago
Speaker 1: talked about wanting to create his own militia. You have
Speaker 1: hundreds of electors that have been removed around the country
Speaker 1: and replaced with Trumpers. You have secretaries of states right
Speaker 1: that have been removed or their teeth have been taken
Speaker 1: out because their politics don't aligned with Trumpism. These people
Speaker 1: are waging a war, and Ronda Santis, to me, is
Speaker 1: one of the most dangerous because he is smarter than
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. He is a lot more politically savvy than
Speaker 1: Donald Trump was, and the moves that he is making
Speaker 1: are going to be copycatted by other red state governors.
Speaker 1: So to me, what he is saying out loud. And
Speaker 1: what I said last week is that Rhonda Santis is
Speaker 1: preparing for war and he is signaling to his buddies
Speaker 1: what it is that they need to do. And you
Speaker 1: know Glenn will say, well, I don't know if he'll
Speaker 1: be able to do it. Well, why not If Rhonda
Speaker 1: Santis decided to say that I want a volunteer Florida militia,
Speaker 1: we will do training, you will get some type of badge. Honestly,
Speaker 1: what is to stop him? Because let me tell you something,
Speaker 1: the Biden administration, in my humble opinion, is asleep at
Speaker 1: the fucking wheel. I have seen na'er a press conference,
Speaker 1: na'er an oval office meeting that is about the urgency
Speaker 1: of the preservation of our democracy. We have seen nothing
Speaker 1: come out of any real leaders in that administration that
Speaker 1: are telling us that they are taking the threats that
Speaker 1: are being waged publicly and vocally seriously. We don't even
Speaker 1: hear the media following up and asking the right questions.
Speaker 1: Mister President. Governor DeSantis says that he wants to create
Speaker 1: his own militia. What do you think about that? What
Speaker 1: is your response to that? It is not enough to
Speaker 1: continue to shrug these people off. It is not enough
Speaker 1: for us to pretend that they are not as dangerous
Speaker 1: as they are. And the more time that passes, and
Speaker 1: the farther that we are from the insurrection and no
Speaker 1: one behind it is in jail, the less likely we
Speaker 1: are to have faith in our institutions, the less likely
Speaker 1: that we are to show up for the next selection.
Speaker 1: And Glenn said something that really has made me concerned
Speaker 1: as I'm letting it marinate. He said that twenty twenty
Speaker 1: two will be a less fair and a less free election,
Speaker 1: and if we do nothing in twenty twenty two, then
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four will just be a performance. Let that
Speaker 1: sit with you. We are still at a moment in
Speaker 1: time that is fleeting. The window is closing where we
Speaker 1: are able to reverse what has been done to repair
Speaker 1: the damage that has been created, to hold those accountable
Speaker 1: for trying to undermine and destroy our democracy. But we
Speaker 1: are running out of time. And the fact is is
Speaker 1: that there is no one that is raising the alarm,
Speaker 1: that is pulling up the red flags, that is sending
Speaker 1: up flares to let the American people know that they
Speaker 1: can continue on believing that their government has their back
Speaker 1: and is protecting them that these agencies and these departments
Speaker 1: aren't just for show. We have a virus that is
Speaker 1: raging and is signaling a fourth wave. We have Republicans
Speaker 1: that are wayward and running a muck over our country
Speaker 1: and doing everything that they can to undermine it. We
Speaker 1: have climate change that is raging out of control. This
Speaker 1: is a perfect storm for destruction. I believe that if
Speaker 1: we make it, historians decades from now will look at
Speaker 1: pivotal moments that we have been talking about on WOGAYF
Speaker 1: and say, why didn't they react when they saw the
Speaker 1: first signs? Why didn't they allow history to be their guide?
Speaker 1: Why was everybody caught off guard when they knew what
Speaker 1: was coming? And I feel like they're going to be
Speaker 1: asking that question over the crumbling buildings and agencies in
Speaker 1: this country. I don't know who America is going to
Speaker 1: be in twenty twenty four. I don't know if it
Speaker 1: will be America because what I am seeing is a
Speaker 1: very rapid move to states rights and states operating as
Speaker 1: their own fiefdoms, their own armies, their own little mini
Speaker 1: presidents that are not united under anything. Republicans are united,
Speaker 1: They're united under destruction and power by any means necessary.
Speaker 1: Democrats can't get in line to pass the fucking human
Speaker 1: Infrastructure Bill. Oh, we're switching gears now so that we
Speaker 1: can focus on voting rights, which you should have never
Speaker 1: switched gears away from. We are in trouble. The country
Speaker 1: is under threat. Domestic terrorism is not just on the rise,
Speaker 1: it is in our Congress, and the apathy and the
Speaker 1: dismissiveness of this administration is going to be our ruin, Folks.
Speaker 1: Coming up next is my conversation with our dear friend
Speaker 1: MSNBC Legal Analysts and the host of Justice Matters, Glenn Kirshner. Folks.
Speaker 1: I am very excited to be back with Glenn Kirshner,
Speaker 1: MSNBC Legal Analysts and the host of Justice. This matter
Speaker 1: is to break down the latest news regarding the insurrection
Speaker 1: and the one six Commission and whether or not we're actually,
Speaker 1: at some point in the near future coming up on
Speaker 1: the year anniversary of the insurrection, going to see severe arrests,
Speaker 1: going to see purple walks of the people who were
Speaker 1: the masterminds, the architects behind the insurrection. Glenn, you know
Speaker 1: the one six Commission has issued subpoenas they have requested
Speaker 1: or voted on Mark Meadows being held in criminal contempt.
Speaker 1: But again, the only people that we've seen get jumpsuits
Speaker 1: on and guilty verdicts are the low level people that
Speaker 1: broke into the Capitol building, beat up Capitol police and
Speaker 1: DC Metropolitan Police. But none of the major voices and
Speaker 1: architects behind this have been arrested. They were all walking
Speaker 1: around Scott free. What are we waiting on? I don't
Speaker 1: know what we're waiting on. It feels unfair, It feels
Speaker 1: unjust that the low level foot soldiers of the insurrection
Speaker 1: are being held accountable, sum are being imprisoned, and the
Speaker 1: people who organize the insurrection organize the foot soldiers and
Speaker 1: the folks who launched the attack by telling the foot
Speaker 1: soldiers go down there, stop the certification, and if you
Speaker 1: don't fight like hell, you won't have a country anymore.
Speaker 1: They are walking around, as you say, scott free, and
Speaker 1: it feels wrong. It feels unfair, it feels unjust, it
Speaker 1: feels dangerous. So what are we waiting for? I can't
Speaker 1: begin to understand what we're waiting for, other than I
Speaker 1: do know as a former federal prosecutor, it takes a
Speaker 1: long time to build a huge conspiracy case. But what
Speaker 1: we ordinarily do, Danielle, is we try to protect the
Speaker 1: safety of the community first by making early arrests, by
Speaker 1: bringing early charges. And then once we have secured the community,
Speaker 1: we begin to build in the grand jury. We return
Speaker 1: superseding indictment, subsequent indictments where we add bigger charges, we
Speaker 1: add more defendants. It ultimately culminates in the in the largest,
Speaker 1: most significant criminal charge we can bring. In this case,
Speaker 1: it might be a seditious conspiracy. It might be a
Speaker 1: conspiracy to commit crimes against the United States. It might
Speaker 1: be it might be a Rico conspiracy. You know, it's
Speaker 1: beginning to look a lot like Rico this so I
Speaker 1: know how much time that takes. But it all starts
Speaker 1: with a first modest indictment. We haven't even seen them
Speaker 1: first modest indictment of anybody other than Donald Trump's supporters
Speaker 1: who were told by Donald Trump to go attack the Capitol.
Speaker 1: That feels unfair, it feels unjust, and it feels dangerous. Okay,
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about Mark Meadow and the position that
Speaker 1: he is in right now. So initially Donald Trump's chief
Speaker 1: of staff, Mark Meadows, and by the way, he was
Speaker 1: the fourth chief of staff right in the Trump administration
Speaker 1: over four years. Mark Meadows originally was cooperating with the Commission,
Speaker 1: provided thousands of documents, including all of the text messages
Speaker 1: that have now begun to be public. Right. We saw
Speaker 1: this week Laura Ingram and others pushing back and you know,
Speaker 1: wanting to sue the Commission for the release of their
Speaker 1: text messages because what we are now aware of the
Speaker 1: fact that they are liars and hypocrites, right and are
Speaker 1: endangering the public and knowingly doing so. Why then, do
Speaker 1: you think that Meadows decided to make this pivot and
Speaker 1: allow himself to be in a position where he is
Speaker 1: going to be the first person since Watergate, right in
Speaker 1: an administration that can be convicted. Right, I just don't
Speaker 1: understand why you would start here, are all my documents
Speaker 1: and now oh no, no, I'm not going to come
Speaker 1: and testify. Yeah, I understand it, or I would explain
Speaker 1: it this way. He is tissue paper week and all
Speaker 1: he wants to do is sell books at this point,
Speaker 1: and he needs Donald Trump's blessing or at least not
Speaker 1: his condemnation to be able to sell books to the gullible,
Speaker 1: to Donald Trump's base, and when he angers Donald Trump
Speaker 1: by beginning the process of cooperating with the House Select Committee,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump erupts. What is Mark Meadows tissue paper? You know?
Speaker 1: Week that he is? What does he do? He backs
Speaker 1: up and he stops cooperating. He really he's more willing
Speaker 1: to be criminally convicted and perhaps spend time in prison
Speaker 1: than he is to alienate Donald Trump and apparently not
Speaker 1: sell his book. That's what you know. You And it's
Speaker 1: so funny, Danielle, because we struggle to try to make
Speaker 1: sense this, and I feel the way I felt in
Speaker 1: court for thirty years when I was prosecuting criminal cases.
Speaker 1: The jury wanted to make sense of it, and I
Speaker 1: would say, folks, please don't fall into the trap of
Speaker 1: trying to make sense of the senseless, because it's not
Speaker 1: going to make sense to you. It's not going to
Speaker 1: make sense to us. And if we were required to
Speaker 1: make sense of crime in order to convict people for
Speaker 1: having committed crime, we would never convict anybody. So you
Speaker 1: can't rationally explain a Mark Meadows, the behavior of a
Speaker 1: Mark Meadows coming from a place where honesty, decency, integrity,
Speaker 1: law abiding, this and a love of democracy motivates us
Speaker 1: and drives us and informs our understanding of the world.
Speaker 1: It doesn't inform Mark meadows understanding of the world or
Speaker 1: Jim Jordan's or Donald Trump. So we can't make sense
Speaker 1: of it, you know. But here's the thing. What I'm
Speaker 1: trying to make sense of is not the crimes that
Speaker 1: they committed. I'm trying to make sense of why Department
Speaker 1: of Justice, Why the FBI aren't the ones doing the investigation.
Speaker 1: Why it is as our friend Ellie miss Stalad said,
Speaker 1: you know on MSNBC the other day, you know, it
Speaker 1: should have signaled to us when Joe Biden chose Merritt Garland,
Speaker 1: he could have chosen anybody with a backbone with teeth
Speaker 1: right that was going to go after not just the
Speaker 1: low level folks that broke into the Capitol, but the
Speaker 1: architects of the insurrection, those that drafted the blueprint that
Speaker 1: created a war room. So what I'm trying to make
Speaker 1: sense of, and I need your help with, is to
Speaker 1: understand where the hell is the Justice Department. And we
Speaker 1: can continue to tell ourselves that we think, oh well,
Speaker 1: we would never really know if they were, you know,
Speaker 1: doing the work. But at this point, the American people
Speaker 1: have lost complete and total faith in our institutions and agencies.
Speaker 1: And I think that having a signal, sending up a flare,
Speaker 1: that would let us know that our Justice Department is
Speaker 1: actually working to preserve, you know, the institution, not not
Speaker 1: just in name only, but in the fact that no
Speaker 1: one is about the law. Sending up a flare is
Speaker 1: exactly what we need. First of all, I can't conceive
Speaker 1: of living in a country. I can't conceive of a
Speaker 1: Department of Justice that was my professional home for nearly
Speaker 1: quarter of a century not investigating these crimes. I can't
Speaker 1: accept that. Yes, I'm taking it on largely blind faith
Speaker 1: that they are, but I believe they are because there's
Speaker 1: so much criminal conduct in the harsh light of day
Speaker 1: that's been committed by Trump and company. So but we
Speaker 1: don't see any public manifestation of it. And more importantly,
Speaker 1: they haven't sent up a flare. All they need to do, Danielle,
Speaker 1: they could put Garland and Ray shoulder to shoulder, or
Speaker 1: do it with somebody else, because neither of those two
Speaker 1: men are the strongest communicators. I'm not making fun or
Speaker 1: making light of them to say, folks, friends, citizens, Americans,
Speaker 1: your Department of Justice saw what went on on January sixth,
Speaker 1: just like you did with our own eyes. And we've
Speaker 1: seen everything that went on before January sixth and what's
Speaker 1: gone on after January sixth. Please understand that your Department
Speaker 1: of Justice, the law firm for the American people, is
Speaker 1: hard at work attacking and investigating all crimes, all crimes
Speaker 1: that we have any hint have been committed. Please understand
Speaker 1: it takes time, but we're on top of it. But Daniel,
Speaker 1: I didn't disclose a single investigative effect. I didn't compromise
Speaker 1: a single investigation. I did no damage to the integrity
Speaker 1: of ongoing investigations. But I think America would feel better
Speaker 1: if we knew that our Department of Justice took this seriously,
Speaker 1: was working for us, and was not going to turn
Speaker 1: a blind eye to the high politicians of this very
Speaker 1: sad chapter in our nation's history. I mean, you know, Glenn,
Speaker 1: you know I wanted to initially think that it was
Speaker 1: a chapter. I'm beginning to think that it's a volume, right,
Speaker 1: I'm beginning to think that this is just volume one,
Speaker 1: because as we move closer to twenty twenty two, and again,
Speaker 1: only a handful of insurrectionists have been held accountable. And
Speaker 1: I mean again, these people broadcasted on their own social
Speaker 1: media platforms right with glee, where they were and what
Speaker 1: they did, and it took months and months and months
Speaker 1: for those people to be picked up. I just I
Speaker 1: don't understand what our Justice Department, what our intelligence agencies,
Speaker 1: what they think that they what message that they are
Speaker 1: sending to the American public. And you know, frankly, I
Speaker 1: would be remiss if I didn't, if I didn't mention
Speaker 1: right as people know that I believe that race has
Speaker 1: everything to do with this race and power and privilege
Speaker 1: have everything to do with why these people are still
Speaker 1: walking around through free I mean we have okay, so
Speaker 1: Phil Waldron right, it's subpoenaed. Now, this is big news.
Speaker 1: So finally subpoena. But we knew that this man was,
Speaker 1: wrote a thirty six page memo, wrote a slide deck,
Speaker 1: put together a PowerPoint presentation from how long have we
Speaker 1: known that? And he's just being subpoenaed now and we're
Speaker 1: supposed to be what placated by that? And he did
Speaker 1: this this power point on you know, how to coup
Speaker 1: for fun and profit? He did it after Bill Barr
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's own attorney general said there was no fraud
Speaker 1: undermining Joe Biden's win. He did it after Chris Krebbs
Speaker 1: said this was the most secure election in US history.
Speaker 1: The Department of Homeland Security issued a press release saying
Speaker 1: the same thing, most secure and safe election in US history.
Speaker 1: And yet the Phil Waldron's and the Jim Jordan's basically
Speaker 1: ignored all of that, and in a very real sense,
Speaker 1: excuse me, but they said, f the vo they don't count,
Speaker 1: they don't matter, we don't care. We're going to corruptly
Speaker 1: install Donald Trump for a second term. I don't understand
Speaker 1: how these people haven't been charged. It erodes confidence in
Speaker 1: our institutions. It erodes any respect for the rule of
Speaker 1: law that people might have. To see these folks prancing
Speaker 1: around out there giving talks and lectures and presentations, and
Speaker 1: Donald Trump potentially recruiting a new batch of foot soldiers
Speaker 1: for the next insurrection. It's doing real damage to our
Speaker 1: democracy every day. And you know, I again can't conceive
Speaker 1: of us not criminally investigating this and not criminally indicting
Speaker 1: these folks, because if we don't, we're done. If we don't,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump will announce in his campaign for twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: Let's be clear, the Department of Justice co signed everything
Speaker 1: I did, stamped everything I did with its stamp of approval.
Speaker 1: Because you know what, if I had committed crimes, the
Speaker 1: Department Justice have charged me, and then we're done. Then
Speaker 1: we're done. Twenty twenty four is the last presidential election
Speaker 1: will ever have because whether Donald Trump wins or loses,
Speaker 1: he'll lose both the popular and the electoral College vote,
Speaker 1: but he will declare himself the winner. And this time
Speaker 1: there's no recovering from that. You know, Glenn, I have
Speaker 1: to ask this, how much confidence, honestly do you have
Speaker 1: that our last free and fair election was in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty right, Because you know, as as I'm thinking, and
Speaker 1: we're getting ready to prepare for the midterm election season,
Speaker 1: whatever we've seen. We have, you know, hundreds of federal
Speaker 1: judges that were appointed by Mitch McConnell. We have a
Speaker 1: Republican Party that has cleaned house as it pertains to
Speaker 1: their secretaries of States, as it pertains to their electoral boards,
Speaker 1: as their electors, we have seen them replaced with Trumpers. Right,
Speaker 1: so we already know. I mean this is I continue
Speaker 1: to say that one six was the warm up. It
Speaker 1: was Act one right. Act two is mid term elections,
Speaker 1: which again we are still waiting on Congress, waiting on
Speaker 1: this administration to put forth any type of serious voting
Speaker 1: rights legislation, which we know isn't going to pass, not
Speaker 1: because of Republican opposition, but because of opposition within their
Speaker 1: own ranks. And so how is it that we're supposed
Speaker 1: to believe that at this late date that action, serious
Speaker 1: action is going to be taken by these agencies to
Speaker 1: ensure that twenty twenty wasn't our last free and fair election.
Speaker 1: So I will say, in my opinion, twenty twenty two
Speaker 1: the midterms will be less free end fare than were
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty elections. And if we don't seriously reverse course,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four will be a show election because the
Speaker 1: vote won't matter, not the popular vote, not the electoral
Speaker 1: College count. It won't matter if we don't remedy this
Speaker 1: now and attack the state legislation that is not only
Speaker 1: suppressing the vote but is putting the ability to change
Speaker 1: the electors in the hands of Republican state legislatures and
Speaker 1: legislators and election officials. Even if the Democrat wins the
Speaker 1: popular vote running away. The states are passing laws saying, well,
Speaker 1: you know what, if we don't like the way it looks,
Speaker 1: if it smells funny, We're just going to appoint our
Speaker 1: own electors, send them to Washington to cast votes for
Speaker 1: the Republican period. So I don't know that we've seen
Speaker 1: the last free and fair election, but I think twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two will be less free and fair than was
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. You know, I want to ask you this
Speaker 1: because I feel like these two things are very connected,
Speaker 1: and while the media continues to, you know, make light
Speaker 1: of it or make jokes. Ron de Santis, governor in Florida.
Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago, I'm losing time in this
Speaker 1: wormhole that we're living in. But a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 1: he decided in a press conference to say that he
Speaker 1: wanted to create his own essentially community army right the
Speaker 1: Florida State whatever army, that he alone would control, that
Speaker 1: he alone, that they would have no oversight from the
Speaker 1: federal government, from the President, from the actual army, right
Speaker 1: from the Pentagon. He declared that in full in full
Speaker 1: view of everyone, and everybody's been shrugging their shoulders. Ronda
Speaker 1: Santis is down in Florida, instituting laws, rolling out things
Speaker 1: as if he is the president, not the governor of Florida.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that we are not trying to
Speaker 1: connect these dots, that what is happening on the electoral front,
Speaker 1: what is being said out in public with regard to
Speaker 1: the creation of my own private army, that this isn't
Speaker 1: going to be a copy. We're not going to see
Speaker 1: this copycatted, right, Like, I don't just think that this
Speaker 1: is about elections. I think that it is about more.
Speaker 1: Am I am I being hyperbolic? Am I am I
Speaker 1: looking for more trouble than what exists? You know? Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: if you can't join them, beat them, and if elections
Speaker 1: suppression and you know, the sort of corrupt endeavor to
Speaker 1: throw out the true electors in favor of the bogus
Speaker 1: electors doesn't work. What I saw DeSantis's move to you know,
Speaker 1: have his own private army to be was like the
Speaker 1: first step on the road to secessions. That's how I
Speaker 1: read that. And if you can't join them, beat them,
Speaker 1: And if we can't win by cheating and lying and
Speaker 1: stealing elections, we'll take our ball and go home and
Speaker 1: guess what, I have my own Florida Army. So y'all
Speaker 1: better not come down to the Sunshine State because we
Speaker 1: will kick your butt. That's the way I see De
Speaker 1: Santis's move. I don't know whether it has any hope
Speaker 1: of succeeding actually creating a Florida Army. I hope it doesn't,
Speaker 1: but it feels like something even worse and more ominous.
Speaker 1: Ten voter suppression, if if that's imaginable, because everybody says
Speaker 1: voting as foundational, and if we don't have voting, we
Speaker 1: have nothing else. So we better get to work. We
Speaker 1: better connect the dots. Glenn, you know, final question for
Speaker 1: you today. If you were the attorney general, as our
Speaker 1: as our friend, as our an elements still enjoyed, some
Speaker 1: white Vans said on MSNBC, you could have picked anybody.
Speaker 1: You could have picked actual patriots and fighters. Your name
Speaker 1: was among those that were listed, and I, my goodness,
Speaker 1: I would sleep better at night if I could essentially
Speaker 1: uh copy you and put you in every state, put
Speaker 1: you in every place overseeing our our justice department. If
Speaker 1: it was up to you, what would the steps be
Speaker 1: that you would take over the next couple as we're
Speaker 1: moving towards this anniversary to ensure aside from the press conference,
Speaker 1: but what with the evidence that is in front of
Speaker 1: us that we know, what would what would you do?
Speaker 1: What would what would be happening? So first of all, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: in no rational universe will I be Attorney general given
Speaker 1: the way I run my mouth, because I'm going to
Speaker 1: speak the truth. Political consequences be damned. I don't care,
Speaker 1: which is why I'll never get elected and they'll never
Speaker 1: run for office. But the first thing I would have
Speaker 1: done was used Volume two of the Muller Report to
Speaker 1: apply for an arrestoirant for Donald Trump for as many
Speaker 1: as ten federal felony obstruction of justice crimes. Because you
Speaker 1: don't let that slide. You just don't let that slide,
Speaker 1: because when you do, you slide right into January sixth.
Speaker 1: What I would be doing right now is I would
Speaker 1: be going gangbusters with you know, and I have to say, Danielle,
Speaker 1: the people down at the DCUs Attorney's office or investigating
Speaker 1: the insurrection, those are my friends, my former colleagues. I
Speaker 1: tried homicide cases with some of them, I supervised many
Speaker 1: of them. They're good people. They're doing the right thing.
Speaker 1: Maybe not quickly enough, maybe not reaching high enough in
Speaker 1: the criminal organization, and yet but they're doing the right
Speaker 1: thing as best they can in my opinion. But I
Speaker 1: would be going gangbusters in a way that frankly, if
Speaker 1: it became public, all the better. I would be putting
Speaker 1: everybody before the grand jury. Everybody before the grand jury,
Speaker 1: and if they wanted to invoke they could invoke their
Speaker 1: Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination. Then I would decide
Speaker 1: whether to grant them immunity or not. And there's a
Speaker 1: calculation that goes into it. If you think you can
Speaker 1: get some truth out of them, you grant them immunity.
Speaker 1: Like Jeffrey Clark, what did Donald Trump tell you when
Speaker 1: he was trying to corruptly install you as attorney general
Speaker 1: to have you weaponize the Department of Justice and use
Speaker 1: it as a tool to nullify the votes in the
Speaker 1: sixth battleground states? Like that letter you wrote to the
Speaker 1: Georgia's state election officials? What did Donald Trump say to you?
Speaker 1: And if Jeffrey Clark wanted to invoke his Fifth I
Speaker 1: would probably consider immunizing him and trying to compel the
Speaker 1: truth out of him. Roger Stone, he invokes the Fifth
Speaker 1: I'm moving on because you're a stone cold clown. I
Speaker 1: guess there's a pun in there, because you've already been
Speaker 1: convicted of seven federal felonies obstruction of a congressional preceding
Speaker 1: five counts of lying to Congress and one of witness tampering.
Speaker 1: I'm not getting any truth out of Roger Stone if
Speaker 1: I immunize him. So you make thoughtful principal decisions. But
Speaker 1: Danielle Man, they would be lined up around the block
Speaker 1: at the Federal courthouse waiting for their turn to go
Speaker 1: into the grand jury, and the minute we had probable
Speaker 1: cause to begin returning indictments based on what the grand
Speaker 1: jury heard, Boom boom boom, You're indicted, one after another.
Speaker 1: Line them up. We're going to do it honestly, fairly, independently,
Speaker 1: and ethically. But you're all getting indicted for your crimes
Speaker 1: against the United States. That's how I would operate. Is
Speaker 1: there any I mean, just Devil's advocate, which I don't
Speaker 1: ever like to play. Is there any reasonable path that
Speaker 1: this Department of Justice is saying we're waiting for this,
Speaker 1: that we don't want to move quickly. We don't we're
Speaker 1: not ready yet. But this is, but we have really
Speaker 1: good reason for dragging our feet for an entire year.
Speaker 1: You know, the federal prosecutorial practice is a very slow
Speaker 1: measured practice because unlike the prosecutors in the fifty States,
Speaker 1: where when a crime is committed, they make an arrest
Speaker 1: and they're on the clock and they move out, in
Speaker 1: the federal system, that's not how we operate because we
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of arrests generated federal cases. We
Speaker 1: investigate sometimes too long, sometimes add nauseum, sometimes forever, and
Speaker 1: then if we decide we have enough to bring a charge,
Speaker 1: you know what we typically do. We try to wrap
Speaker 1: it up with a pre indictment plea offer, so we
Speaker 1: never end up on the court clock. We control everything.
Speaker 1: If the case is not sufficiently strong, it's not to
Speaker 1: our liking. And there are some prosecutors, federal prosecutors who
Speaker 1: have a real aversion, maybe even an allergy to running
Speaker 1: the risk of losing the trial. God forbid, then we
Speaker 1: don't bring a charge at all, and that I think
Speaker 1: does a disservice to the American people. I've been preaching
Speaker 1: this for as long as I was a federal prosecutor,
Speaker 1: and even since I've retired, so it's such a different
Speaker 1: mindset that unfortunately, even though our democracy is on fire,
Speaker 1: they are operating the way the federal prosecutorial practice ordinarily operates.
Speaker 1: They're taking their sweet old time. And I wish they
Speaker 1: would have the same sense of urgency that hundreds of
Speaker 1: millions of Americans every day, because we're living this anxiety
Speaker 1: and this desperation and this unquenchable thirst for justice. And
Speaker 1: you know, DJ is just not offering us a drink
Speaker 1: at this point. Do you think that Merrick Garland should
Speaker 1: be replaced? No, you don't, not yet, not yet. And
Speaker 1: I think Danielle I struggle every day regarding where I
Speaker 1: should draw the line in the justice sand. But you know, listen,
Speaker 1: right now, the House Select Committee is doing bang up work.
Speaker 1: Liz Chaney is talking like a prosecutor. She's using the
Speaker 1: precise language of the federal statue eighteen Usc. Fifteen twelve
Speaker 1: that prohibits interfering or obstructing or impeding an official proceeding.
Speaker 1: That's a charge that's being brought successfully against the insurrectionists,
Speaker 1: the foot soldiers. She's using that precise language to describe
Speaker 1: the evidence that they're collecting of what Donald Trump did
Speaker 1: and arguably continues to do. So. They are absolutely, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, going to make criminal referrals for all of
Speaker 1: the crimes they develop evidence of. I don't think that's
Speaker 1: what the Justice Department is waiting for. I think unfortunately,
Speaker 1: they are so cautious in the way they investigate and
Speaker 1: indict crimes. And this is the biggest crime potentially in
Speaker 1: the history of our nation, a conspiracy to overthrow our
Speaker 1: government led by the President and all of his lackeys.
Speaker 1: It doesn't get any bigger than that. So I think
Speaker 1: Merrick Garland and the leadership at the Department of Justice
Speaker 1: wants to get it not just right, but they want
Speaker 1: to get it perfect. But sometimes the perfect is the
Speaker 1: enemy of the good. And that is my fear, because
Speaker 1: when the evidence is good enough, when you've got probable cause,
Speaker 1: you need to move out. You need to protect the community.
Speaker 1: You need to reassure the American people that you know,
Speaker 1: we're on top of this. You know, well, we will
Speaker 1: continue to watch, will continue to be in conversation with you, Glenn,
Speaker 1: because you know, I got to tell you as the
Speaker 1: as the time moves and we get closer to that anniversary,
Speaker 1: I'm worried. I don't know if there is an anniversary
Speaker 1: special that is being planned by Donald Trump and company
Speaker 1: that we're not paying attention to, that we're going to
Speaker 1: be caught off guard with. But I am I am
Speaker 1: desperately worried that if action is not taken, more more
Speaker 1: violence like we have never seen before is going to
Speaker 1: break out in this country. We do have to worry
Speaker 1: about how how Donald Trump will celebrate the one year
Speaker 1: anniversary of his attack on our democracy by people that
Speaker 1: he said quote, I love we love you. Remember that
Speaker 1: was the statement he made to them as they were
Speaker 1: attempting to kill police officers and hunting down president elected
Speaker 1: public officials. We love you. So yeah, I worry about
Speaker 1: how Donald Trump plans to celebrate the anniversary of his
Speaker 1: attack on democracy. Oh my goodness, Well, we'll keep our
Speaker 1: eyes and ears open. Glenn Kirshner, as always, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for making the time to try and make
Speaker 1: sense of what does not make sense in this country
Speaker 1: and our democracy right now. We appreciate you. My pleasure, Daniell,
Speaker 1: I'll see you next week, God willing. That is it
Speaker 1: for me today. Folks on woke a f as always,
Speaker 1: Power to the people and to all the people. Power
Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fun and safe as fun.
Speaker 1: See you tomorrow.