1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Ruthie's Table fore brought to you by Sky and Montclair. 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 2: I remember my mother walking into my grandmother's bedroom and 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 2: I was sleeping in the baby beside my grandmother. I 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 2: was seven years old, and she said, we've lost everything. 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: And I said, what do you mean we've lost everything? 6 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 2: And she said, our houseborn to the ground last night. 7 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 2: All my father's savings were under a mattress. I know, 8 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 2: and the only thing he saved was a dog that 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 2: changed me forever. 10 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: In my experience, you never know what's going to happen, 11 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 1: so if in doubt, it's good to say yes. About 12 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: a month ago, the River Cafe was asked to cook 13 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: for a grand party at the Serpentine Gallery celebrating the 14 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: dynamic company Conselo and its founder, chairman and CEO, Declan Kelly. 15 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: So when they invited me to join, I said yes. 16 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: From the moment I entered the crowded room, I knew 17 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: I'd made the right decision. Decclin and I were introduced. 18 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: We covered the bases, our views on the politics of 19 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: the day, our love for our children, a shared feeling 20 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: of how lucky we are to work with the best people, 21 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: and of course the importance of food in our lives. 22 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: So here we are today in the River Cafe on 23 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: a Saturday morning. Declan with me, Me with Declan, confirming 24 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: that when you don't know what's going to happen, it's 25 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: good to say yes, thank you, thank you for coming. 26 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: We can go back to the beginning and I can 27 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: ask you about growing up in Ireland. 28 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 2: I grew up in Tipperary. 29 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: Tipperary. 30 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: Tipperary is right in the middle of the country. It's 31 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 2: in the Republic of Ireland. And the song isn't there, Yes, 32 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 2: there's a long Watch Tipperary exactly. 33 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 3: That's the one that was sung by soldiers in World 34 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 3: War One and World War Two to rhyme with some 35 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 3: sentence in the song and the ward Tipperary was the 36 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 3: right rhyming words. 37 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 2: It was a marching song. But yeah, I grew up there, 38 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 2: and you. 39 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: Know it's what was it like? What tell me about 40 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: your you. 41 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 2: Know my upbringing was? Was? It was happy, but very difficult. 42 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 2: You know. We had no running water in my house 43 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: until we were you know, I was seven years old. 44 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: What year was that? 45 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: That been morning sixty eight and. 46 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: Still running water and what did you do for what? 47 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: Oh? We had cousins next door and we went there 48 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 2: and you know, there was a well. And you know, 49 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: I don't make it sound like we're any worse off 50 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 2: than anything else. We weren't. I really would never do that. 51 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 2: I grew up in an amazing community with lots of 52 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 2: people who had a lot things a lot worse than 53 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 2: we did. And I had a loving family and all 54 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 2: of that. But it was difficult, and I remember, it 55 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: has really formed me from the inside. I remember, you know, 56 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: the harshness of life. And I remember selling potatoes with 57 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 2: my father and we had a fields. We're very small farmers. 58 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: We had so few cows that I could name each 59 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: one of them. We had twelve at the end of 60 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: the day. It was. It was a tough life. My 61 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: parents both worre three jobs. They were always working and 62 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: what jobs. 63 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: Would they do? Just anything. 64 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 2: It was a small, very small farmer, manual labor. They 65 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: both left school and they were twelve years old. 66 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: Twelve twelve, and this was in they left school, probably 67 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: what in the later fifty days. 68 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was blessed to have a loving family, my parents' 69 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 2: complete devotion to my education and my brother's education. My 70 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 2: mother in particular, she would stand in a field when 71 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: we'd be doing something, whatever it was bringing in the 72 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: cows or doing something, and she would say, you know, 73 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: your whole life is dedicated to making sure you never 74 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: have to do this when you go to college or 75 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 2: if you go to college, and always remember that's what 76 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 2: you're here to do, which is to escape from this, 77 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: not the societal aspect or the community, which was so 78 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 2: important to us it still is. My best friends are 79 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 2: still where I grew up in the village, absolutely, but 80 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 2: it was all about hardship and escaping her ship. And 81 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 2: you know, the relationship with food was not we didn't 82 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 2: eat for pleasure, we ate for existence and because you 83 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: were hungry. And I have so my relationship with food 84 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: evolved over time as well when I was able to 85 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 2: afford to eat better food. But it's it's really interesting 86 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 2: because you know, Ireland is an amazing country and it 87 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 2: has gone through many many iterations and perhaps now is 88 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: living its best life because the country has done so well. 89 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: But but when I grew up, it was it was 90 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 2: very different. Was high unemployment, there was you know, lots 91 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: of people leaving the country all the time. It was 92 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: a scary time. 93 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: Did you think your mother when she told you that 94 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: about escape this life for you. 95 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:45,239 Speaker 2: Know, do you do better? 96 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: What would she like to have done? Do you think 97 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 1: that was? 98 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 2: She's the most amazing person. She has She has done 99 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: so many things for so many people, so many charities. 100 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: She's raised money, she's worked in the community. She was 101 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 2: out seven nights a week, always doing something for other people. 102 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 2: She is the most extraordinary person I've ever. 103 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: Met in my life. 104 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: And she's still with us, thank God. And she's in 105 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 2: our family home in Tipperary, and she made me feel 106 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: alive every day and I owe everything to her. When 107 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: I was younger, my mother would always sort of pack 108 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 2: my luncheon. We used to get up early in the 109 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: morning because we would milk the cows before we go 110 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 2: to school, and you'd go and feed them in the 111 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: winter in the dark and bring hay. And my father 112 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 2: would already be gone to work somewhere else. My mother 113 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 2: would probably be milking the cows before she went to 114 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 2: another job, and so you'd bring in the cattle, then 115 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 2: you'd feed them, then you'd come and have breakfast, and 116 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 2: then you'd cycle to the boss to go to school. 117 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: It's always like sounds like it's like one hundred and 118 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: fifty years ago, but that whole concept of sort of 119 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: living your life in a different way. When I go 120 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: back there, which I do very often, thank god, every 121 00:05:56,080 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 2: couple of weeks or months. It stands in front of 122 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 2: me when I'm there, and I'm met by it every 123 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 2: single time, and it forms you on the inside, but 124 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 2: in a good way. You also have many happy memories. Yeah, 125 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 2: it's not just moments of like you know, worrying about 126 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: what happened in the past. Yeah, but it has definitely 127 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: left a mark on me. There's no doubt about that. 128 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 1: You mentioned when we were talking this morning, and you 129 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: mentioned it just before, almost as soon as we sat down, 130 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: that you witnessed an experienced having your house burned down. 131 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. 132 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: Can you tell me about that. 133 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 2: I was seven years old. My parents were out at 134 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 2: something and I was with my grandmother in her house, 135 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 2: which was about three miles or four miles away. I 136 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: remember my mother walking into my grandmother there's bedroom and 137 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 2: I was sleeping in the bed beside my grandmother. I 138 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: was seven years old, and she had our dog in 139 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 2: her arms, and everyone was covered in soot and dirt, 140 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: and she said, we've lost everything. And I said, what 141 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 2: do you mean, We've lost everything, and she said, our 142 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: house burn to the ground last night, and all my 143 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 2: father's savings were under a mattress and the only thing 144 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 2: he saved was was a dog. 145 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: And so they came and saw in flame in. 146 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: Flames, and I remember the local community coming to my 147 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: grandmother's house about three days later, and they were going 148 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:24,119 Speaker 2: to take up a collection to help the family, which 149 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: again speaks to the community I came from. They would 150 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 2: do it today. It's an incredible place, incredible, it's really unique. 151 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: And my mother said, no, we're good, We're going to 152 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: figure this out. And my father built our house that 153 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 2: my parents my mom now lives in, and I lived 154 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 2: with my grandmother for a year. 155 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: Do you know how the fires started? 156 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 2: Yes, electric blanket went on for so however, that changed 157 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 2: me forever, and. 158 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: In the sense that you experienced loss. 159 00:07:55,360 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: Deep trauma, trauma and loss, and you know uncertainty and fear, 160 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: and you know, staring into the abyss of the unknown. However, 161 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 2: again I view it as a blessing because if it 162 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 2: hadn't happened, I would have not I would not have 163 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: been able to view life the way I've done it. 164 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 2: And I remember my grandmother telling me everything was going 165 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: to be okay, and she was right, and she was 166 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 2: an incredible woman. When we talk about food memories, yes. 167 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: I mean what was it like? 168 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: Well? 169 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: Very often, you know, I say on the podcast that 170 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: the people that I talked to, so many of them 171 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: remember their grandmother's food almost more than their mothers. And 172 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: what was your grandmother's She just. 173 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 2: Make the greatest white soda bread I've ever had in 174 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 2: my life. I remember her making it with flower on 175 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 2: the table, and then she would put it out on 176 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 2: the window of this little cottage she lived in, and 177 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: the smell of it would go all over the yard 178 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 2: and you would instantly be hungry. And then in the 179 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 2: evening we would cut slices of it, and she would 180 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 2: put thick butter, yeah, and she would put it on 181 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 2: a very long fork, long, really long fork, and she 182 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: would hold it over the actual wood fire. 183 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: So she put the butter on and then and it used. 184 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 2: To drip into the fire, and then we would stare 185 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: into the fire and she would say, let's look at 186 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 2: the faces in the fire, and we would see and 187 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: make up stories about who was living in the fire. 188 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: And I remember that bread and breaking that bread and 189 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 2: eating and I can taste it to this minute, and 190 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 2: it was the most comforting moment that I would have 191 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: in my day, my week, my year. And I loved 192 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 2: that experience and I think about it all the time. 193 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: Have you made it? You have her recipe? 194 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: I am a terrible yeah, but my mother used to 195 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 2: make it, and I believe she has the recipe. Ask her, right. 196 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: No, that's that. Did you when you lived with your grandma? 197 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: Did your parents live there as well? Yeah? So you 198 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: all lived in the house what I am built, and 199 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: then my. 200 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 2: Father built a house and then we moved and went 201 00:09:58,840 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: from there. 202 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: Because I think, I think that what you're talking about again 203 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: is something that I often say because I witness it 204 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: a lot in the restaurant, is if I could kind 205 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: of teach my children and my grandchildren anything, it would 206 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: be resilience. You know how you empathy? I say, empathy 207 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: and resilience. So empathy has to be in there, because 208 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: if you're just a resilient person, then you don't you think, well, 209 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: I did it, I managed it. I can do it. 210 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: Why can't they? But I think that being able to 211 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: suffer as you did, or have some experience like you did, 212 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: and then to carry on, and I see it in 213 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: the restaurants. I see the ones who have a really 214 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: bad experience or a day or something happened, and you know, 215 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,319 Speaker 1: really are affected by it deeply, which is fair enough. 216 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: And the ones that are affected by it deeply and 217 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: go back to work. 218 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, we all deal with adversity in different ways. 219 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,719 Speaker 2: And I don't want to dwell on it too much 220 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 2: as being who I am, because I guess it's at 221 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 2: the root of who I am. But at the same time, 222 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: I have been very, very, very fortunate in my life 223 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: in so many ways, and there have been so many 224 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 2: certain depoutous moments that have guided me in certain directions 225 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 2: that would otherwise not have happened. So I'm very blessed 226 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 2: to have the life I have, and I know that, 227 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: and blessed to have the family I have and the 228 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: friends I have and the things I've been able to 229 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 2: do in my life. But at the same time, I 230 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 2: never take anything for grant. Yeah, And I'm always afraid 231 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 2: that you go back. 232 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: Had anybody in your family been to university before? 233 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: I remember my mother used to clean a meat factory 234 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 2: at night. She used to clean the offices, and I 235 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 2: would go and help her whenever I was available and able, 236 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 2: but I would have been seventeen. But you know, she 237 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 2: did it for many years. And in those days, when 238 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 2: you wanted to get your results from to figure out 239 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 2: if you got into college or not, you dial a 240 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 2: number and they read out there, oh really, And so 241 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 2: I remember calling from the phone in the office of 242 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 2: the manager of the plant to find out if I 243 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 2: was getting into university. And my whole life had been 244 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 2: built up to this moment because it was all a 245 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: question of if I didn't get into college, I didn't know, 246 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 2: you know, what happened. And I remember dialing this number 247 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 2: and finding out that I got in, and both of 248 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 2: us sat on the floor, holding each other, crying our 249 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 2: eyes out for and I was like a movie I 250 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 2: understand how it sounds, and bawling our eyes out for 251 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 2: ten minutes and hugging each other because everything that we 252 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 2: had done had led up to this moment. It's interesting 253 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: because after I finished high school or secondary school as 254 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 2: we call it, I you know, I worked as a 255 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 2: journalist and in local newspaper University Mina when I grew up, 256 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 2: so I had a full time job college, right, So 257 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 2: I used to drive I guess one hundred and twenty 258 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 2: miles every day for three years to keep my job 259 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 2: in the newspaper and go to college during the day 260 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 2: and at night, and I would always come home to 261 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 2: my mom for lunch, and so she lived. 262 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: Near where you were, where the newspaper was exactly. 263 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 2: I remember one day I had this yellow ren All 264 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 2: twelve car and it was a thousand years old, and 265 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: my father and mother left the kitchen they went out 266 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 2: to look at the car while I was in having 267 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 2: ever lunch I was having, and my father said, those 268 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 2: tires are so bald on your car. You'd be better 269 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 2: off putting the tubes on the outside, because I had 270 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 2: driven so many hundreds and hundreds of miles. But I 271 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: would look forward to that lunch because it was like 272 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 2: coming into a refuge for a little period of time 273 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 2: and then going back out into the big bad world. 274 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: So the job at the newspaper was I was a journist. 275 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: She went in the morning and stayed. 276 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 2: Till I would go in the morning, and then I 277 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 2: would drive to go Away where I went to college, 278 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 2: and then I would study law and English literature at 279 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 2: night until ten thirty at night, and then I would 280 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,719 Speaker 2: go again in the morning early early, then drive back 281 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 2: to Tipperary for the newspaper, then go and have lunch 282 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 2: and go back to work, drive back to God. I 283 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 2: did that for three and a half years. 284 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: Did you have a social life at all? It was no, 285 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: But it doesn't matter. 286 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 2: I didn't care. 287 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: When my son went to Columbia, he wanted to have 288 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: a job and I thought, well, you're not going to 289 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: be able to study and have a job. You know, 290 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: how are you going to make this work? And I 291 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: called it being you know, the parent. I called the 292 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: dean of students. I said, what do you think I 293 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: should do about, you know, the fact that my son 294 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: wants to work and the study? He said, you know, 295 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: the best students are the ones that have jobs. He said, 296 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: because they learned really early that they have to manage 297 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: their time. They have to be at work, they have 298 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: to focus when they focus. And he said the fact 299 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: that he wants and again, some do it, you know, 300 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: obviously because of need. He didn't have to do it 301 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: because he needed to, but he wanted to, you know, 302 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: and he wanted to do both. And I think it 303 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: was interesting that he said that maybe that is you know, 304 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: how did you I can't looking at this, I can't 305 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: imagine how you did it though. That is really intense. 306 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 2: You know, I think life is all about organization. I'm 307 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 2: a very organized person, moniically compulsively organized. I make lists 308 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 2: every day. 309 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: I live by the morning and the night before. Let's 310 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: come to that. You get into bed, and then you know. 311 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 2: Before I go to bed, before you, I will do 312 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 2: a list. It will take maybe forty minutes, no matter 313 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 2: what happens, no matter where I am in the world, 314 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 2: including Saturdays and Sundays. 315 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 316 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: I mean, this is a sad admission, but there we are, 317 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: and I have a list of all the things I 318 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 2: have to do, and my day is not complete until 319 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 2: I've done that list. 320 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: So would you go to bed with the list that 321 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: you did the night before? I think, oh, I didn't 322 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: do that. I didn't do that, and so you do 323 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: that and that and. 324 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 2: That and so. So I did that when I was 325 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 2: a student, and I did that when I was a 326 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 2: kid growing up, and I did that when I was 327 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: going to college. And so in order to be able 328 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 2: to do these things, you have to be massively organized. 329 00:15:58,360 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, you do. 330 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 2: And so I've carried that through my life. So what 331 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 2: I agree with what the Dean of Admissions said to 332 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 2: you about your son. People who have busy lives make 333 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 2: time and if you want to give it. I know 334 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 2: it's an old saying. If you want to give busy 335 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 2: person it gets something. Don't give it to a busy person. 336 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 2: And I find that to be true. 337 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: Also in life, when you then were in university and 338 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: you were doing the two jobs, did you then carry 339 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: on into journalism? Was that what you decided? Did you 340 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: always know that's what you wanted to do? 341 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was twelve years old. Yeah, from twelve, I 342 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: had a teacher called missus O'Shea who came up one 343 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 2: day and she said, you know, you should become a journalist. 344 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: And I said, what's a journalist? And she started explaining 345 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 2: it to me, and she said, let's pretend and let's 346 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 2: write a little news story. And that day I decided. 347 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 2: And so sounds crazy, I know, but for the next 348 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 2: six seven eight years, everything I did was dedicated towards 349 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 2: becoming a journalist. I was very lucky. My uncle John 350 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 2: Joe brought me to a local guy called Pat Ryan 351 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 2: who known the local newspaper still does, Yeah, and just 352 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 2: called mena and he said, this is my nephew and 353 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 2: he'll work for free. He just wants to get a start, 354 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 2: and Pat said, well, sure, let's give him a shot. 355 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 2: And so I covered a cover I used to cover. 356 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 2: I used to cover hurling games and football games. And 357 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 2: eventually very kind man called Jerry McLachlin and who was 358 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 2: since pasted, and a friend of mine, Peter Leeson, who 359 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 2: just retired. They gave me a chance to be a 360 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 2: junior reporter. And I remember I was making one hundred 361 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 2: and seventy two pounds, which at the time was a 362 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 2: fortune and pounds per month, and it was it was 363 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: a fortune and before tax, and so I was using 364 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 2: all of this and I would go and cover court cases, 365 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 2: and I would go and cover accidents, and I would 366 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 2: go and cover murders, and not that they happen very often, 367 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 2: once in ten years, but things like that. And so 368 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 2: you grew up very quickly, and you met adults, and 369 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 2: you were forced to get engaged. And I was always 370 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 2: interested in the human condition. And I love to write 371 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 2: and I love to read, and I was sold from 372 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 2: day one. And then you know, I became a journalist. 373 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 2: I worked in that local newspaper and then went to 374 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 2: another one locally, and then I became a daily news 375 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 2: in a daily newspaper in Cork newspaper Cork Examiner, and 376 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 2: now it's called The Examiner, but it was a daily 377 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 2: newspaper at a morning edition and an evening newspaper. And 378 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 2: I worked there for a number of years and there 379 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 2: were some of the happiest years of monent. 380 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: You remember the food you write when you were working 381 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: as a journalist. 382 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: Some of the best stories were found in pubs, and 383 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 2: some of the best people that you met were in pubs, and. 384 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: Of singing in pubs especially. 385 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 2: And storytelling. And you grew up around men if you 386 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 2: were a boy and you saw them, you know, extract 387 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 2: stuff from people so it could appear on the page. 388 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 2: And to be able to get people to tell you 389 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 2: things they didn't want to tell you. That whole art 390 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 2: is lost, and so I think it is lost. It's 391 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 2: harder now. And also I think there's a something that's 392 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,719 Speaker 2: happened in the last decade or so. I think truth 393 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 2: is now the definition of truth has been lost forever. 394 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 2: Nobody and I don't mean journalism. I don't mean that 395 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 2: there aren't journalists who tell the truth. That's not what 396 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 2: I mean. What I mean is we have a difficulty 397 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: understanding what's real and what's not because of the world 398 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 2: that we live in. And I know I'm stating the 399 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 2: blind and the obvious, because with AI you can do everything, 400 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 2: but I just and And journalism in some respects has 401 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: gotten easier, but in some respects it has gotten a lot 402 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 2: harder because for people to actually break through and write 403 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 2: or say or do something that is differentiated, it is 404 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 2: much harder because it's so much more competition. And the 405 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 2: things that we used to care about is journalists. Uh, 406 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 2: you know, people think about different things now, but back 407 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 2: then it was it was an art. 408 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: Did you ever do it any Did you ever form correspondent? 409 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 2: You ever said, Yeah, I traveled all over the world. 410 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 2: I was really lucky. I was just thinking on the 411 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: way here this morning. In nineteen ninety two, I covered 412 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 2: the Olympics in Barcelona, and I carried a little briefcase 413 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 2: with me, called it Tandy. And when the one hundred 414 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 2: meters was over, you raced down to a phone box. 415 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 2: You placed the collect call to the newspaper and then 416 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 2: they would answer the phone, and then you would have 417 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 2: the words on a word processor and you would have 418 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 2: two cups on both ends and she would say at 419 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: the other end. Usually the type setter, press send now 420 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 2: in your press send, and then you put a cup 421 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 2: over the mouthpiece and a cup over the earpiece, and 422 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 2: all the words would go down the page, down the line, 423 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 2: and it would appear on the other end. And that 424 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 2: was in nineteen ninety two. Was really incredible. I thought, 425 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 2: I was, you know, a superstar carrying around his little briefcase. 426 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 2: But yeah, back then. 427 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: It was I remember meeting Don McCollen, who you greatest 428 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: war and just the process where he would take a 429 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: photograph in Saigon during the Vietnam War and Ethiopia during 430 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 1: the famine, and getting it back to London, getting it 431 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: on the plane. The role of film which would have 432 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 1: to be put on the plane if they could get 433 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: a plane, get it to London, get it to the developer, 434 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: get it to the paper, you know, and then you 435 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: see what we do. 436 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 2: You know, I mean, you know, I started out in 437 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 2: journalism with the typewriter like that, and I would carry 438 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 2: it around. It was like thirty pounds. 439 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: And but did you did you eat well in Cork? 440 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: Did you? 441 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 2: Did you? 442 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: I mean, Cork is an bally mulous. 443 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 2: Right, is amazing. Cork is is one of the greatest 444 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 2: culinary capitals in my opinion. Yeah, you've got places like 445 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 2: can Sale have incredible restaurants. You've got the English market 446 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 2: in Cork. Yeah. I mean when i'd gotten too Cork, 447 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 2: life had changed and thank god I was able to 448 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 2: afford to do things, and you know, my whole ex 449 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 2: experience with life it changed by then, thank god. So yeah, 450 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: I think that's when I really began to start to 451 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 2: enjoy food. 452 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: Was there a restaurant column? I wonder a food column 453 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: in the paper. 454 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 2: And also, I know this is not what you meant, 455 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 2: but there was a fear associated with somebody coming to 456 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 2: great restaurant. Yeah, that very well. 457 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: Make a break, you know, right the opening? Yeah, yeah, 458 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: Adrian Gil you know he could walk in and say 459 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't even about the food. But you know, I 460 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: walked in then the lighting was on a woman's face 461 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: and it made me never want to walk in that 462 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: room again. And there goes the restaurant. 463 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 2: I know it's crazy, but yeah, back in the day 464 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 2: having food columns, and then for a period of time 465 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 2: I used to serve as a as a as a 466 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 2: night editor or a news editor in the newspaper, and 467 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 2: so you'd have these older gentlemen coming up, you know, 468 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 2: usually having had two or three beers or a cigarette 469 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 2: or whatever, and they'd say, well, this is my piece 470 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 2: and you have to go. I need you to do this, 471 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 2: I need to do that. Maybe not so I was. 472 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 2: I was always sort of trying to negotiate with people, 473 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 2: and so that gave me the skill to do that. 474 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 2: But when you were covering food or covering anything that 475 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 2: people consumed, I always felt that the journalist who was 476 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 2: writing that stuff had a softer touch, Oh do you, 477 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 2: because they needed to put they needed to humanize on 478 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 2: the page what was going on in the restaurant, which 479 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 2: is why I think it's such a great shame that 480 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 2: food columns have disappeared. I agree, it's different than writing 481 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 2: about hard news or writing about sports or things that 482 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 2: actually happened. Whereas you walk in and you form an 483 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 2: an impression, it's almost it's the ultimate subjectivity, and I 484 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 2: think it's a great shame that that has been lost. 485 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: What happened after Cork. 486 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 2: After Cork, I couldn't afford my mortgage. After a while, 487 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 2: I had a house, and I remember I was making 488 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 2: eighteen thousand a year and I needed to make twenty 489 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 2: two in order to pay my mortgage. So I went 490 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 2: to Dublin and I applied for a job in public 491 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 2: relations and got. 492 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: It, and wow, old you then about. 493 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 2: Twenty It was in nineteen ninety six, so I guess 494 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 2: I was twenty eight. 495 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, And he went to Dublin and. 496 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 2: A big city. I went to the big Yeah. My 497 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 2: mother asked me, I'm sure it is going to be over. 498 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 2: I think I'll manage. So so I went and did that. 499 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 2: And then after a couple of years, I decided, you know, 500 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 2: I was going to strack out in my own and 501 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 2: I did it with a partner who was still practicing 502 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 2: in Dublin, a great guy called Jackie Gallaher, and we 503 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 2: started a firm together and it was in communications and 504 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 2: public relations. And the reason I did that is that 505 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 2: I would I would phone up pure people all the time, yeah, 506 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 2: trying to you know, figure out what the story was 507 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 2: in particular day. 508 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: And as a journalist, I figured, you know what, I 509 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: think I can do that side of the title, so. 510 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 2: Portrait, rum, game paper or whatever. And I did it 511 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 2: and I liked it. 512 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: Whether the kind of madmen business lunches did you have 513 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: those with? Too? 514 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 2: Dry? Martinez back then it was different. I mean again, 515 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 2: this was in Dublin, and you know you would have 516 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 2: days where, you know, Friday was taken very seriously as 517 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 2: a day where you didn't work after lunch all things. 518 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: That was probably international, it might not be just Dublin. Yeah, yeah, 519 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,479 Speaker 1: but I think work wise, do they still have those lunches? 520 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: Do you go off for long lunches? 521 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 2: And in the past mad Men I think is yeah, 522 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 2: glorifies it, but not anymore. Yeah, I mean it doesn't, 523 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 2: it doesn't exist. I mean in New York. 524 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: Do you like the food in New York? Do you 525 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: think the restaurants are really because you travel so many places, 526 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: do you think as a city of food? 527 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's very hard to be. I mean 528 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 2: it's something like twelve thousand restaurants, and some of the 529 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 2: best restaurants is you know in New York are the 530 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 2: simplest hole in the world, restaurants that nobody knows about. 531 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 2: And a lot of the experience in New York is 532 00:25:58,400 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 2: about who you meet when you're there. 533 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 534 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 2: And it's such a melting pot and it's such a 535 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 2: wonderful place. I mean every day, every day, and I've 536 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 2: lived there for twenty seven years. Every day I still 537 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 2: look up at the big buildings. I still marvel. It's 538 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 2: the greatest country in the world. No matter what happens 539 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 2: from one year, one decade, one president, there's this spirit 540 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 2: of you're never beaten. You can always achieve what you 541 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 2: set out to achieve. People don't judge you if you fail, 542 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 2: they want you to. It's just it's an amazing place. 543 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 2: And you know, we all have different views at different 544 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 2: times about what's going on in America at any given 545 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 2: moment in the history of the country. But one thing 546 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 2: is true for me at least. I mean, I love Ireland. 547 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 2: I'm deeply proud to be Irish and I'm an irishman. 548 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: Seems like your identity is pretty. 549 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 2: But I've gone in America. I've now lived half my 550 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 2: life in both places, and I'm both Irish and American. 551 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd like to talk about that, because you became 552 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: political engaged as well, going from journalism to public relations 553 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: to advising to mentoring. But also you were crucial in 554 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: the work that you did with Hillary Clinton. 555 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 2: I served in government with Secretary Clinton under a President Obama, and. 556 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: I like working and going back to Ireland, but this 557 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: time as as a government. 558 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,959 Speaker 2: You know, I have a deep love for Northern Ireland 559 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 2: and one of the promises I made myself when I 560 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 2: went into government, which was a great I mean, the 561 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 2: greatest honor of my life. And nothing I've ever done 562 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 2: or will ever do will be more important, or better 563 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 2: or more rewarding. I already know that I promised myself 564 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: I would go and visit every town in Northern Ireland 565 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 2: over the time. 566 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: I was did you Yeah? 567 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 2: And it is a most unique, special and misunderstood place 568 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 2: and I'm still deeply involved there. I'm involved Queen's University 569 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 2: and I do a number of things there. Fantastic institution. 570 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 2: But you know, never bet against the Irish people, and 571 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 2: never bet against Northern h It's been through so much 572 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 2: and it'll take decades for it to fully change. But 573 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 2: it is a place of it has many gifts and 574 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 2: I love it deeply. And when I was there, it 575 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 2: was such a privilege to be able to work with 576 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 2: the people who were there on both sides of the religiousified. 577 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 2: And you know what I tried to do when I'm 578 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 2: there every time is to give more hope to people 579 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 2: because they you know, when I was going there back then, 580 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 2: there were generations of people living in the same house. 581 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 2: You know, you'd have a grandchild, a father, and a grandfather. 582 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 2: All of them were unemployed and the unemployment rate was 583 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 2: extremely high two thousand and nine, two thousand and eleven, 584 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 2: those three years in that period. But you know, Northern 585 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 2: Earner has done so well, and it has you know, 586 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 2: picked itself off on so many times, and there's so 587 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 2: many exciting things happening there and one of the best 588 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 2: educated workforces in the world. And you know, now, of 589 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 2: course you go there and it's a much better place, 590 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 2: but it still has a huge amount of work to 591 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 2: do to get to where it needs to be. But 592 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 2: one thing I can tell you is, if you want 593 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 2: to see an indefatigable spill, you go there. Never bet 594 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 2: against the North. I promise you it will always come 595 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 2: out okay in the end. 596 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: And did did you ever consider there being political full time? 597 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 3: No? 598 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 2: You have to decide do you want to advise companies 599 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 2: and CEOs and what they do, or do you want 600 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 2: to be involved in business and politics. And I know 601 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 2: lots of people do both, but I didn't want to 602 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 2: do that, and I felt like I'd given ten years 603 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 2: of my life to politics and public life. In that respect, 604 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 2: either being active in politics or being an advisor. And 605 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: you know, I still get called a lot by politicians, 606 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 2: by prime ministers and leaders of different countries to give 607 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 2: advice on what I think is happening in the world. 608 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 2: And if I'm asked, I'll give it. But I don't 609 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 2: want to be involved in politics, if I can put 610 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 2: it that way anymore. And it's my brother is a politician. 611 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 2: He is a politician in Ireland and has been for 612 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 2: gosh three decades. And you know, it's a very tough 613 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 2: life and there's no appreciation for anything that you do. 614 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 2: It doesn't matter who you are, what political party. At 615 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 2: the end of the day, you can count on one 616 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 2: hand the number of politicians who have left the stage 617 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 2: of their own accord and said goodbye to all that. Ultimately, 618 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 2: it doesn't end well, and we have a very as 619 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 2: a world, We have a very unforgiving attitude with some 620 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 2: reason towards politicians. But at the end of the day, 621 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 2: I believe the majority of them are trying to do 622 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 2: the right thing, and they're good people who got into 623 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,239 Speaker 2: public service because they like it, and they get a 624 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 2: hard knock and a hard you know, scorecard, and I 625 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 2: just think for me, that wasn't something that. 626 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: I I all your travels, do you have a memory 627 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: of a grand dinner in China or in France or 628 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: you know? 629 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 2: I would say these formal events where a lot of 630 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 2: effort goes into preparing the meal and the menu and 631 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 2: the food. It's very important, of course, because of the 632 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 2: message that it conveys, but ironically, the vast majority of 633 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 2: people who go to those events spend most of their 634 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 2: time talking and not really focusing on. 635 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: The which sounds no, no, no, but it gets them 636 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: around the table. 637 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 2: Invariably, people end up talking about things and the food 638 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 2: becomes kind of incidental, which is always a shame. The 639 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 2: most valuable experiences that I've had in business have been 640 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 2: where you can combine the two, and a lot of 641 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 2: that has to do with something you talked about last night, 642 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 2: which is you know where you choose to eat and 643 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 2: who you choose to eat with, and the proximity to 644 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 2: each other when you're around the table. And I really 645 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 2: like meeting people who think about that before they do it. 646 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: It's so good that we're here and we just you 647 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: did it brilliant. I think I might as well hang 648 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: up my job. I think there is a room for 649 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: the two of us in the podcast world. Indeed, But 650 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: you know, to anybody listening to this one, listen to 651 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: gray Matter, because I've never been asked questions like that before. 652 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: How did that happen? Grave Matter? 653 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 2: Gray Matter? Well, first of all, thanks for having me. Secondly, 654 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 2: gray Matter came about because I spent the last thirty 655 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 2: five years dealing with I'm blessed, to say, the top 656 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 2: CEOs in the world, and I'm always fascinated by the 657 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 2: person behind the person, just as I am with you. 658 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 2: And we all get to see the public figure that's 659 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 2: out there doing whatever they're doing in their careers, but 660 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 2: very few people get to see them behind the firewall, 661 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 2: and I spend my life with them behind the far wall. Yeah, 662 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 2: and I often find that people don't get to think 663 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,719 Speaker 2: about how do you think? How do you do what 664 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 2: you do? One of the things that fascinated with Churchill 665 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 2: my entire life. And everyone's written extensively, thousands of books. 666 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 2: But what I'm fascinated by what Churchill is why did 667 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 2: he think the way he thought? What were the formative 668 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 2: reasons for him to be that way? Exceptionally brilliant, But 669 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 2: why and so I decided to do gray matter because 670 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 2: there are thousands of podcasts out there, but I wanted 671 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 2: to do it around the idea of how somebody is 672 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 2: formed and how they think. So the rules of engagement are, 673 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 2: You're not allowed to talk about dollars and cents, You're 674 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 2: not allowed to talk about your products, You're not allowed 675 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 2: to go out and promote yourself. It's actually to make 676 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 2: yourself vulnerable and talk about what's in here behind your brain. 677 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 2: And so far, it's proven to be an interesting journey. 678 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: The ones that I listened to, because there is a 679 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: common thread which, as you say, it's a success, it's 680 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: coming from building something up achieving what they've achieved. But 681 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: do you find a thread between all of them, because 682 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: I've listened about three or four of them. Only do 683 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: you find that you could say that a person in 684 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: that situation is of a certain type, and what would 685 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: that be? 686 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 2: Obsession? It's complete upsess And I would say that in myself, 687 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 2: not to compare myself to any of these people, but 688 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 2: I live by lists. I'm a creature of habit, but 689 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with detail to the level I will argue 690 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 2: with somebody over a comma for five hours it's just 691 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 2: something that makes you who you are. And in your case, 692 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 2: I had blessed to have dinner with you last night, 693 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 2: and you're having dinner with me and my family, and 694 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 2: it's an amazing dinner. But I also know that you're 695 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 2: obsessed with the detail of everything that's going on around 696 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 2: you because this is your entire enterprise. 697 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: In order to talk to you about this, they have 698 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: to have a sense of trust in you that they 699 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: can talk to you, that they can be open. And 700 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: I think that's a huge credit to you that the 701 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: people that you work with have that trust in you. 702 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 2: You know, I always say trust is earned, And yes, 703 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 2: I'm very fortunate to spend my entire life fourteen fifteen 704 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 2: times a day talking to the CEO's biggest companies in 705 00:34:58,080 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 2: the world, and they have to trust me, and I 706 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 2: have to trust them, and we talk about things that 707 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 2: they don't talk to anybody else about. Why is that 708 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 2: Because the further up the food chain you go, the 709 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 2: lonelier it gets. People can't trust everyone around them. They 710 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,439 Speaker 2: work for them, they tell them what they want to hear. 711 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,240 Speaker 2: You need a safe space, you need a safe place, 712 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 2: and you need somebody to talk to you that doesn't 713 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 2: have an agenda, and so that's what I've tried to 714 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 2: do my entire life is to be that person. And 715 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 2: so when I'm in gray matter, I'm really giving myself 716 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 2: to that person to say it's okay to be vulnerable 717 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 2: and just tell me what you really think, because I'm 718 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 2: not going to ask you questions that are either asinine 719 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,439 Speaker 2: or so difficult in probing that you're going to go, Well, 720 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 2: that felt uncomfortable. But what you find is that people 721 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 2: ultimately want to tell you a story about themselves because 722 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 2: they don't get an opportunity, even someone like you who's 723 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 2: been interviewed hundreds of times. What I'm really interested in 724 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 2: is what made you who you are, because when people 725 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 2: observe you and they look at you, they don't know you, 726 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 2: even though I've met you a thousand times. It's an 727 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 2: interesting concept. You can spend days on this, but I 728 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 2: just think the people who make the most interesting subjects 729 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,720 Speaker 2: are the people who are most interested in other people. 730 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 2: And detail, detail is everything. 731 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 1: Detail detail is everything. I agree, but I do ask everyone, 732 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: and I will ask you, and I think I'm trying 733 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: to guess that maybe I know the answers, but there 734 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: might be A few of them is that if food 735 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 1: is something we share, and food is something that alleviates hunger, 736 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: but it also is comfort. And so I hope you 737 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: don't need comfort very often, but if you did, is 738 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 1: there a food that you would go to for comfort? 739 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 2: Declan Yeah, I would say there are three. 740 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: Okay, I thought the Yeah. 741 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 2: Sorry to give you a very eyes write down what 742 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 2: I think they are in the mind match yours? Okay, 743 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 2: Well we know, well, I think you think you've probably 744 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 2: guessed one or right. 745 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: Maybe yeah, we talked about the bread, baked potato and 746 00:36:55,480 --> 00:37:02,760 Speaker 1: soda bread or big on carbs apparently, yes, Look, okay, 747 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 1: I got to it. Well, you tell me number one 748 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: number my number one it might not be anything because 749 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: it might not be a memory something you had. 750 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 2: My number one would definitely be potato, without a question. 751 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 2: That's easy and I'm not unique. My number two would 752 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 2: be believe it or not, oatmeal like porridge. Yeah, and 753 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 2: so I grew up having it all the time and 754 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 2: I love it and I have it almost every day. 755 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 2: And then my favorite pasta, I'm obsessed with pesto. 756 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: Do you. 757 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 2: My favorite pasta is trophy pasta, pine nuts, potatoes, green beans, 758 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 2: and pesto and maybe some broccoli. 759 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: Have you ever had it in the area? Have you 760 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 1: been to any of those little. 761 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:52,240 Speaker 2: Towns I have had. It's more special there than anywhere 762 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 2: else because it's prepared to love and experience. But I mean, 763 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 2: it's my favorite dish. 764 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: Thank you. 765 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. 766 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. Ruthie's Table floor is proud to 767 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:07,720 Speaker 1: support Leukemia UK. Their Cartwheel for a Cure campaign raises 768 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: funds for vital research and more effective and kinder treatments 769 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: for a cute Malloyd leukemia. Please donate and to do 770 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 1: so search Cartwheel for a Cure. Ruthie's Table four was 771 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: produced by Alex Bell, Robbie Hamilton and Zad Rogers with 772 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: Andrew Sang and Bella Selina. This has been an atomized 773 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: production for iHeartMedia.