Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal Hell that for me. I'm
Speaker 1: a man, I'm forty.
Speaker 2: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to
Speaker 2: be happy.
Speaker 3: You want to be happy for a day? Edo State
Speaker 3: is that?
Speaker 1: Woo woom and Dan and tie welcome back to the
Speaker 1: solid verbal boys, girls, my name is Ty Hildebrandt, joining
Speaker 1: me as always over there in sunny Chicago, Illinois.
Speaker 2: Sir, how are you? I'm pretty good. Yesterday was cold,
Speaker 2: today is warm. We get to have on one of
Speaker 2: my favorite football people. I don't really even watch the
Speaker 2: NFL that much. It's just out of a time thing.
Speaker 2: It's fine. It's a totally entertaining league, but I'm always
Speaker 2: interested in sort of the behind the scenes stuff and
Speaker 2: the team building stuff involved with the NFL more so
Speaker 2: than some of the game watching. And so to have
Speaker 2: Robert Mays on, somebody I've I've read and listened to
Speaker 2: for a while and we crossed over with at grant
Speaker 2: Land briefly. I'm just fall on excited to nerd out
Speaker 2: over the draft.
Speaker 1: Robert Mays. He is the host of the Athletic Football
Speaker 1: Show for the Athletic. He also writes about the NFL
Speaker 1: for the Athletic previously, as you said of Grantland and
Speaker 1: Monday Morning Quarterback at dot Com The Ringer. Yes, so
Speaker 1: Robert's been around and really knows the stuff when it
Speaker 1: comes to all things pro football. This is one of
Speaker 1: those hybrid times of year for college football fans because
Speaker 1: there are a lot of college people who are frankly
Speaker 1: in the same boat as us. We pay intimate attention
Speaker 1: to the college game. We're interested, if only tangentially, in
Speaker 1: the NFL Draft to see where some of our players
Speaker 1: and some of these names go on the next level.
Speaker 1: But maybe we don't have that depth of knowledge that
Speaker 1: someone like Robert does about the NFL, where guys fit,
Speaker 1: where they don't fit, what kind of trends exist in
Speaker 1: the NFL, etc. Etc. So we're gonna have him all.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a nice long interview to talk about
Speaker 1: all things NFL draft.
Speaker 2: Is the NFL not like the what is the retired
Speaker 2: or the older golf level called when you're forty fifty
Speaker 2: plus or something like that, the Champions Tours, the Champions Tour. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Is the NFL not the Champions Tour of college football?
Speaker 2: Is that its own like suspected level.
Speaker 1: They might take exception to that label, but from our standpoint, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: not sure.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just interested NFL wise, since I mean
Speaker 2: I kind of like the forty nine ers. I don't
Speaker 2: really watch forty nine ers games, though. I like seeing
Speaker 2: how the college players I liked for whatever reason, if
Speaker 2: they're on Oregon, if they're not an organ how they
Speaker 2: do That's just always interesting to me. And that's just
Speaker 2: me following from Afar. But yeah, this is that week
Speaker 2: where we cross over and I used to do a
Speaker 2: lot of draft stuff at old jobs and seeing how,
Speaker 2: you know, the teams that drafted the had the most
Speaker 2: like second and third round picks, and how do that
Speaker 2: correlate to wins? And also it's all fascinating to me,
Speaker 2: the value system and the strategy of the draft that
Speaker 2: to me is fast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like the presentation of the draft.
Speaker 2: Remember when we did we nail? What song did we nail?
Speaker 2: That would be like the commercial bumpers? Was that all
Speaker 2: of the lights? Yeah, Kanye song.
Speaker 1: I think I don't remember who got it, but I
Speaker 1: remember we nailed it. Because there's always like a draft song.
Speaker 2: Right well ahead of us. I guess Rihanna had lived
Speaker 2: your life right, Yes, that was a song. That really
Speaker 2: hit one year. I don't know what. I'm not paying
Speaker 2: nearly enough attention to pop music to know what will
Speaker 2: be used as bumpers. That's that's actually your expertise, Ti,
Speaker 2: it is, so I'm putting you on the spot. I mean,
Speaker 2: we'll be doing a show. Well, we'll be recording Wednesday
Speaker 2: for Thursday, so there's no way we could know by then.
Speaker 2: But this is our draft preview episode. So what is
Speaker 2: I guess in the last three to eight months something
Speaker 2: like that? What is the song that, either musically or
Speaker 2: with the lyrics is going to be featured? Is that
Speaker 2: bumper song? We'll call it for ESPN? I don't you're
Speaker 2: on the spot?
Speaker 1: Well I did. I I did read a little bit
Speaker 1: about this just in preparation for this show, Okay, And no,
Speaker 1: I don't know what that song is going to be.
Speaker 1: I believe that Kings of Leon are going to be performing.
Speaker 1: I don't know how, Like at where is its Cleveland?
Speaker 2: Cleveland? Okay, because it was Nashville last show, which would
Speaker 2: have made sense. I think they live in Nashville, the
Speaker 2: Kings of Leon.
Speaker 1: But I believe, if memory serves, they're going to be
Speaker 1: They're going to be part of the coverage. Somehow that
Speaker 1: does not quite rise to the level of what we're
Speaker 1: what we're talking about here, we're talking about like the
Speaker 1: pop song of the moment that ESPN is going to
Speaker 1: slap on top of its coverage. Let me think about that.
Speaker 1: To get back to you, I'm looking at the clothing
Speaker 1: bit here.
Speaker 2: Dua lipa would be great to have there. I thought
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you what song. I'm ooh hmmm, I'm
Speaker 2: listening to one right now, but we don't have the
Speaker 2: rights to play it, but I'm playing it in my
Speaker 2: my headphones. The levitating song.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a gem.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you Jenny right, it's that. If you
Speaker 2: want me like, well, that's very You can tie that
Speaker 2: to the draft.
Speaker 1: That was the first song that I thought of when
Speaker 1: you asked me that question.
Speaker 2: Do a lipa featuring De Baby or Debaby featuring No?
Speaker 2: It is featuring de Baby, Okay, Just to be clear,
Speaker 2: leave the door open, Bruno Mars. Does that fit from
Speaker 2: a sensibility?
Speaker 1: No, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's a little too sexy, I think now that I
Speaker 2: listen to it. Man, I don't know any of these artists,
Speaker 2: which it just means I'm out of touch. It doesn't
Speaker 2: mean that they're dumb. What's next, drake m? I mean
Speaker 2: that that fits thematically. I don't know what the song is.
Speaker 1: About, right, I need to I need to look a
Speaker 1: little bit more here.
Speaker 2: Oh man, we've we've already featured the weekend in the NFL,
Speaker 2: so it's probably not going to be the weekend.
Speaker 1: This is my assignment for the Thursday show.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm saying do a lipa. That's my final answer.
Speaker 1: That's a very good answer. I will stick with that
Speaker 1: for now. But this is going to be my homework assignment.
Speaker 1: I don't know what our show is going to be
Speaker 1: on Thursday. We'll have some draft theme to it because
Speaker 1: we have something, did you?
Speaker 2: I will continue to watch the Netflix episode of there's
Speaker 2: some like behind the track, like how various songs are
Speaker 2: produced and like the Thorough Story, there's a dual leap
Speaker 2: episode and it's fantastic. I don't think I saw that
Speaker 2: on Netflix.
Speaker 1: I did watch the Maren Morris and z Middle.
Speaker 2: Now this is like a fall on half hour well
Speaker 2: produced show that was like a New York Times.
Speaker 1: That was a six minute clip or whatever. Yeah, right now,
Speaker 1: I didn't see that one yet.
Speaker 2: Oh, you should definitely go out of your way. It's
Speaker 2: really good.
Speaker 3: That's all. Well.
Speaker 1: On that note, as Dan said, draft preview show, Robert
Speaker 1: Mays from The Athletic will have him on momentarily in
Speaker 1: the interim, if you could go on out to our
Speaker 1: website solid reble dot com. You could find all the
Speaker 1: links there if you want to follow along with your
Speaker 1: podcasting app of choice. Also, if you want to sign
Speaker 1: up four hour newsletter, which you can also sign up
Speaker 1: for at newsletter dot soliverble dot com. As we said
Speaker 1: on the last show, send us your writing samples. If
Speaker 1: you're interested in being part of the fun. We've had
Speaker 1: a bunch come in already. Submissions at soliverble dot com
Speaker 1: is where you can submit some of the stuff that
Speaker 1: you're proud of. We want to try and add some
Speaker 1: more written stuff to our newsletter, to our website, et cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera as we get a little bit closer to
Speaker 1: the season. If you're interested, again, submissions at soliverble dot
Speaker 1: com and last, but certainly not least, verbalers dot com
Speaker 1: is where you can go. I believe we're going to
Speaker 1: post the video of the interview for our Patreon subscribers
Speaker 1: just as a nice little bonus.
Speaker 2: And Robert Mays will tell you the exact level of
Speaker 2: fame that is okay with him, and he is seems
Speaker 2: like he's already reached it. So maybe this will push
Speaker 2: him over the top to being too famous. But we
Speaker 2: don't care.
Speaker 1: We don't care. He gave us permission. It's true to
Speaker 1: used to video Robert Mays. He's the host of the
Speaker 1: Athletic Football Show. He's an NFL writer for the Athletic
Speaker 1: Mister Mays, how are you? It's Draft week? It is
Speaker 1: Draft week.
Speaker 4: I don't feel the least been insulted about never being
Speaker 4: on because I don't really know much about college football
Speaker 4: I would not be useful to your listeners except in
Speaker 4: this context.
Speaker 2: So we technically crossed over at Grantland. I don't think
Speaker 2: we had anybody else from Grantland on. But now this
Speaker 2: is this is our perfect time of year together.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. When how long were you there? It was
Speaker 3: only first year? Right? Yeah? When?
Speaker 2: So it was it was the starters, which I guess
Speaker 2: they were basketball Jones, then men and Blazers and us
Speaker 2: when they when Bill brought in like outside, it was
Speaker 2: through Jacoby brought an outside podcast to fill out the
Speaker 2: grant Land network, and then I took a job at Espanation.
Speaker 2: They were like, yeah, we can't really have you on anymore.
Speaker 2: Like that's cool, no worries.
Speaker 4: I don't remember much of twenty eleven. It's not like
Speaker 4: I was drunk for most of the year. I actually wasn't.
Speaker 4: I didn't do anything fun. I just was working constantly
Speaker 4: and was getting like four hours of sleep at night
Speaker 4: as we were trying to run the website with about
Speaker 4: five people. So that time in my life is very
Speaker 4: much a blow.
Speaker 3: Will you do it?
Speaker 2: You were doing the show with Bill Barnwell then, I
Speaker 2: think or that wasn't.
Speaker 3: The first year. That was later.
Speaker 4: So the first year that I was there, I actually
Speaker 4: did a show with e from Salam that we called
Speaker 4: The Trenches. I did I should not have had a podcast.
Speaker 4: It was completely irresponsible for Jacoby to put me on
Speaker 4: the air. I was twenty three years old. I had
Speaker 4: no idea what I was doing. I had no experience,
Speaker 4: and they were just like, do you want a football podcast?
Speaker 3: I was like, sure, I'll take that.
Speaker 2: Actually uniquely qualifies you for a podcast. No experience, no
Speaker 2: idea what you're doing. In twenty eleven. It absolutely did
Speaker 2: the idea. If you had told me ten years ago
Speaker 2: that podcasting would be the biggest chunk of my job
Speaker 2: a decade later, I would have thought something had gone
Speaker 2: horribly wrong, and I just never would have believed you.
Speaker 2: But here we are, and it seems to be a
Speaker 2: sustainable life, which I'll take.
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's going to continue. Yeah, all, yeah.
Speaker 3: Same, because I can't write anymore.
Speaker 4: I've lost the ability to do it, so fingers still
Speaker 4: goes up to dry.
Speaker 3: I'm screwed.
Speaker 1: So okay, let's talk about the topic at hand here,
Speaker 1: the NFL Draft. I got to start out with this,
Speaker 1: Are you an NFL network or ESPN guy? On Draft night?
Speaker 1: Which covers do you watch?
Speaker 3: It's a great question.
Speaker 4: I typically go NFL and Network, especially now that Daniel
Speaker 4: Jeremias on. I've known DJ for a couple of years
Speaker 4: and he's a buddy, so I enjoy supporting him whenever possible.
Speaker 4: But I think this year we'll probably be watching on
Speaker 4: silent because or I'm mute because we're doing a live
Speaker 4: show the night of the draft, so we're going to
Speaker 4: have it out in the background and be reacting to it.
Speaker 4: So we're gonna have to decide on a feed. I
Speaker 4: haven't talked to the other guys who are going to
Speaker 4: be in the room yet. That's going to be something
Speaker 4: that requires a little bit of teasing out.
Speaker 1: Are you at all nostalgic for the weird awkwardness that
Speaker 1: we saw in twenty twenty with the virtual zoom Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: combo draft, whatever you want to call that.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, we were talking about it on our show that's
Speaker 4: going to run later this week, me and Lindsay Jones.
Speaker 4: I'm sad that we're not going to have any Cliff
Speaker 4: Kingsbury sockless with the speed up on a table and
Speaker 4: that palatial Arizona home.
Speaker 3: All we have now is the Rams.
Speaker 1: Who is the coach whose son was like on the toilet?
Speaker 4: Oh, Mike Vrabel, his son's friends doting extremely weird stuff.
Speaker 4: Which if you had asked me to rank all of
Speaker 4: the coaches and I had to pick the one whose
Speaker 4: kids would be being weird stuff during the broadcast, I
Speaker 4: probably would have had Mike Vrabel in my top three
Speaker 4: or so.
Speaker 2: I like, aren't the Rams do? They did? They rent
Speaker 2: to house in Malibu? This year?
Speaker 3: They did? They did? Sponsored by Rocket.
Speaker 2: Mortgage of course of course, So okay, how much how
Speaker 2: much college football do you watch for just college football's sake?
Speaker 2: And how much do you watch through the lens of like, Okay,
Speaker 2: this is who's coming, this is where the draft might
Speaker 2: end up in a few months. What is your actual
Speaker 2: college football consumption, if at all? So it changed last
Speaker 2: year obviously for the most part. When I would watch
Speaker 2: it organically, it would be with friends who went to
Speaker 2: certain schools. So my buddy played volleyball at Penn State.
Speaker 2: Who's my best friend. We watched Penn State games together
Speaker 2: every so often. I have friends it went to Michigan.
Speaker 2: One of my really good friends played quarterback in Indiana.
Speaker 2: So I watch a lot of Big ten teams casually
Speaker 2: on Saturday, and sometimes I'll catch bigger games if something.
Speaker 2: If it's Alabama's playing whoever, Georgia on a Saturday night
Speaker 2: at seven pm, I'll do that, But rarely does that
Speaker 2: happen that often.
Speaker 3: I'll watch the playoff.
Speaker 4: Every year, so when it gets a little bit later,
Speaker 4: I'll watch that just purely for enjoyment's sake. But I
Speaker 4: will readily admit that I come to the process with
Speaker 4: relatively less knowledge and drastically less relatively less knowledge of
Speaker 4: most people, drastically less than I assume the layman would
Speaker 4: ascribe to me. Considering I do this for a living,
Speaker 4: I really don't watch that much college football, and for
Speaker 4: that reason I come to this and I don't know.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think of a good example. I didn't
Speaker 4: know who Christian Darisaw was before I started the draft process.
Speaker 4: Somebody like that is never something that would come across
Speaker 4: my plate in the normal rhythms of my life.
Speaker 2: It's sometimes tough, by the if you cover college football
Speaker 2: because there are so many teams. All of a sudden,
Speaker 2: somebody appears in the top fifteen of a mock draft.
Speaker 2: You're like, oh okay, I mean this team is you know,
Speaker 2: four and eight or something like that, and so you're
Speaker 2: not paying that much attention. It's difficult to find those
Speaker 2: standouts playing for underwhelming teams. So that does happen two
Speaker 2: people like us as well? I mean, were there people
Speaker 2: this year where you're like, now that other than I
Speaker 2: guess Christian Dara saw that you've come into contact with
Speaker 2: where you're like, is anybody talking about oh yes, they are,
Speaker 2: oh okay, good like at least it confirms my talent
Speaker 2: for watching film.
Speaker 4: You know, there wasn't really anybody like that again, because
Speaker 4: I think last season was so strange and I probably
Speaker 4: watched less than I would in a normal year. Somebody
Speaker 4: I did like when I watched him a little bit
Speaker 4: because I was watching him play against Penn State in
Speaker 4: twenty nineteen was Rashad Bateman. Remember watching him in that game.
Speaker 4: I was like, man, that guy got some route running
Speaker 4: savvy to him. He puts a little sauce on some
Speaker 4: of this stuff. I like the way he plays. So
Speaker 4: that was somebody that I knew I had enjoyed. Other
Speaker 4: than that, though not really. I mean for most of
Speaker 4: the other guys, it was the bigger names, and I
Speaker 4: came to them at the same pace that most people would.
Speaker 2: Is this a season Do you feel like GM scouts,
Speaker 2: anybody talking about the sport? Are they looking at last
Speaker 2: fall as like we can't put an entire amount of
Speaker 2: weight into what we saw last fall because of the
Speaker 2: up and down nature of starting and stopping and only
Speaker 2: playing three games or six games or you know, whatever
Speaker 2: it is. Is there less weight on last fall or
Speaker 2: are people just trying to pick it up hard and
Speaker 2: project like they normally do.
Speaker 4: It does seem like the opt outs have raised questions.
Speaker 4: People want to know why certain players opted out, and
Speaker 4: I think that's more that's what it is more than
Speaker 4: anything else. I think it's it puts one more box
Speaker 4: next to a player's name that you have to check
Speaker 4: what it's trying to figure out the reasons if there
Speaker 4: was a drop in play, if somebody opted out. I
Speaker 4: think it's just led to more questions, even if they're
Speaker 4: not taking it less seriously.
Speaker 3: But I think it's it's caused.
Speaker 4: More thoroughness in the process than it might require in
Speaker 4: a typical year.
Speaker 1: What players stand out to you when you think of
Speaker 1: questions like are there any guys that are on your
Speaker 1: radar where you kind of have that lingering like I
Speaker 1: need to know more about this guy before I'd feel
Speaker 1: comfortable with him.
Speaker 4: I think the medical stuff with some of the guys.
Speaker 4: Caleb Farley is somebody that when you watch him play,
Speaker 4: I had somebody with the team last week just say
Speaker 4: flat out, he's the most talented corner and when you
Speaker 4: watch him play, I think that's true. You know, he
Speaker 4: just has such great movement skills and the size is there.
Speaker 4: It's a rare combination of physical profile and movement skills,
Speaker 4: but I would be concerned about a back injury, a
Speaker 4: back injury that's lingering and might require another surgery. I
Speaker 4: think there are some teams that their doctors have okayed it,
Speaker 4: but there's a lot of risk involved there. Jalen Phillips
Speaker 4: is another one. When you watch him, he's got all
Speaker 4: the physical talent in the world. Obviously, he was one
Speaker 4: of the best recruits in the country coming out. You
Speaker 4: see that, you know he's built the right way. You
Speaker 4: know he uses his hands in a way that I
Speaker 4: think other guys in his class don't typically. But there's
Speaker 4: serious questions about his medicals and some other stuff. So
Speaker 4: I think that's that's part of it, is guys that
Speaker 4: opted out and guys that have medical lingering, medical concerns.
Speaker 4: There's just less certainty associated with those guys than it
Speaker 4: would be in a typical year.
Speaker 1: To that point. Do you have a favorite I don't know,
Speaker 1: over the top draft critique, you know, like we've heard about.
Speaker 1: I think it was Penn Suol Dan. His past blocking
Speaker 1: maybe isn't where it needs to be. The guy's a mountain.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he'll be fine in the wal term. Zach Wilson.
Speaker 1: Somebody said early on that he's got like a spoiled attitude.
Speaker 1: It's not going to play well if he ends up
Speaker 1: going to a big city like New York. Have you
Speaker 1: heard any criticism like that that really stands out to
Speaker 1: you as being very obvious.
Speaker 4: I think that a lot of the conversations about the
Speaker 4: quarterbacks have sent me back to the drawing board and
Speaker 4: have caused me to rewatch some stuff and just reevaluate
Speaker 4: what I could possibly be seeing. Can I watch justin Fields.
Speaker 4: I'm not a quarterback expert. I know what I'm watching.
Speaker 4: I watch it, but I don't study it. I guess
Speaker 4: that's the distinction. And when I watch him play, that
Speaker 4: just looks like the second best guy. To me, it
Speaker 4: looks like the second most talented guy. And if you
Speaker 4: look at where he came from and what he is
Speaker 4: supposed to be as recruit, and it's the accuracy. When
Speaker 4: we have guys that have true that are outliers physically,
Speaker 4: that have the frame, the arm, strength, the mobility, all
Speaker 4: of that stuff, I think the bigger questions about them,
Speaker 4: for the most part are accuracy, can he place the
Speaker 4: ball where he wants to? And the idea that Justin
Speaker 4: Fields may be the most accurate quarterback among these four, and.
Speaker 3: He has all of those physical tools.
Speaker 4: I'm just a little confused about what the conversation is
Speaker 4: and why we're not considering him the second best quarterback.
Speaker 4: And I've asked people that I think it's because he
Speaker 4: plays a little bit more methodically. He's not even as
Speaker 4: quick to run as you might want him to be.
Speaker 4: So if you're trying to have an offense that runs
Speaker 4: on time, is he going to be able to do
Speaker 4: that for you? I understand that concern to a certain extent,
Speaker 4: but when I watch that guy and everything else that
Speaker 4: I've heard about him, I just don't understand why we're
Speaker 4: not having a more real conversation about why he should
Speaker 4: be going to San Francisco instead of Mac Jones or
Speaker 4: Tree Lines.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you bring up Mac Jones because that
Speaker 1: was where I was going to go next. Is he
Speaker 1: this year's Daniel Jones in that double Jones? Yeah, We're
Speaker 1: getting to a point where it feels like mac Jones
Speaker 1: has been talked up to the point where people are
Speaker 1: willing to accept him as a potential number three overall
Speaker 1: pick much the way Daniel Jones was talked up as
Speaker 1: the sixth overall pick and ended up going to the
Speaker 1: Giants pretty high. Now, from the college football side of things,
Speaker 1: I think we came to that as Okay, Daniel Jones
Speaker 1: is a good quarterback at Duke. I don't know if
Speaker 1: he's a top ten pick. I think we feel similarly
Speaker 1: about Mac Jones. I'm curious to get your take on him,
Speaker 1: especially since you kind of came into this process with
Speaker 1: virgin eyes.
Speaker 4: I was expecting to like him less than I did
Speaker 4: when I turned down a few games from last year.
Speaker 4: I want to watch the Georgia game, and I probably
Speaker 4: watched two or three other games of him before we
Speaker 4: did the podcast about him a couple weeks ago, and
Speaker 4: I expected to just see a guy that wasn't very impressive,
Speaker 4: that had been overrated for this and this reason. But
Speaker 4: there are a lot of aspects to his game. Was like,
Speaker 4: I understand this. I get why you could talk yourself
Speaker 4: into this. It's the anticipation. He plays very quickly, and
Speaker 4: I think a lot of that is the way the
Speaker 4: offense is distilled for him and what they're trying to accomplish,
Speaker 4: and they have so many answers baked in because they're
Speaker 4: both schematically better and more talented than every other team
Speaker 4: they play, so it's easy to look like you're playing
Speaker 4: quickly because you know who's going to be open before
Speaker 4: the ball is even snapped. I don't know if that
Speaker 4: speaks to processing or just the overall structure of the offense,
Speaker 4: but there are aspects of his game like, all right,
Speaker 4: he gets the ball out on time, He understands space
Speaker 4: really well. He understands coverage structure and where he can
Speaker 4: put the ball in order to give his guys a chance.
Speaker 4: But those plays often include DeVante Smith having to come
Speaker 4: back aggressively for the ball or come back over somebody.
Speaker 4: So there are qualities that he has that if I
Speaker 4: were an NFL team, especially a guy like Kyle Shanahan
Speaker 4: who just needs the ball to go to the right
Speaker 4: place in his mind every single time, I get where
Speaker 4: you would land on Mac Jones. But I still after
Speaker 4: watching him, he's not in the same stratosphere as some
Speaker 4: of these other guys when it comes to physical ability,
Speaker 4: And that's my biggest question is how is he going
Speaker 4: to operate in a situation that doesn't involve perfect conditions?
Speaker 4: And Joe Burrow is surrounded by really good players at LSU,
Speaker 4: but he could make things happen out of structure. He
Speaker 4: can make guys miss in the pocket. His subtle mobility
Speaker 4: was arguably his greatest characteristic coming out of LSU. Mac
Speaker 4: Jones doesn't have that subtle mobility. I mean, he can
Speaker 4: Tom Brady manipulate the pocket a little bit and work
Speaker 4: in that tiny little space, but he's not making free
Speaker 4: rushers miss. And I just think earlier in your career
Speaker 4: that's a huge, huge part of playing the position that
Speaker 4: he's lacking.
Speaker 2: Look so much of drafting a quarterback, especially in the
Speaker 2: first round, and I know this is a pain spot
Speaker 2: for you as a Bears fan, but is talking yourself
Speaker 2: into a guy up near the top of the draft
Speaker 2: that you believe can be a top tier quarterback? And
Speaker 2: you look the last decade, even the half decade that
Speaker 2: has passed. And I don't follow the NFL that closely,
Speaker 2: but we're talking about a league littered with guys who
Speaker 2: had the potential but for whatever reason, be it injuries, situation,
Speaker 2: just didn't live up to potential, didn't work out. Is
Speaker 2: there any broad lesson to take from the last five
Speaker 2: years of first round dudes or top fifteen draft pick
Speaker 2: quarterbacks that you can say, Okay, now that we've seen
Speaker 2: these past five years of tape, this is what we
Speaker 2: can't have in a top ten quarterback or a top
Speaker 2: twenty quarterback. Are there lessons there at all?
Speaker 4: It's interesting because I don't know if there is. I
Speaker 4: don't even know if there are one or two, because
Speaker 4: there's so many different things you can take from each circumstance.
Speaker 4: The Panthers just traded two picks for Sam Darnolds two.
Speaker 4: He was arguably the worst quarterback in the NFL statistically
Speaker 4: over the last three years. I think Dwayne Haskins was
Speaker 4: technically worse than him and maybe a couple other guys,
Speaker 4: but he was in there thirty two through thirty five,
Speaker 4: and the Panthers thought highly enough of him to trade
Speaker 4: two picks to go get him, because in their minds,
Speaker 4: that's all situation why he wasn't playing well, lack of protection,
Speaker 4: lack of scheme, lack of planmaking talent. So that's one conversation.
Speaker 4: I think that for a while we had learned that
Speaker 4: picking the big, strong guy that was a little bit raw,
Speaker 4: big strong armed guy that was a little bit raw
Speaker 4: had been a mistake. Those guys typically don't become more
Speaker 4: accurate in the NFL. Then you watch what happens with
Speaker 4: Josh Allen, right, and now it shifts the conversation a
Speaker 4: little bit. And I think what's happened with Justin Herbert
Speaker 4: has also shifted it a little bit. We're looking at
Speaker 4: these guys who are toolsy and saying, all right, is
Speaker 4: it worth making the bet on a toolsy quarterback. I
Speaker 4: don't think the conversation about Trey Lance sounds the way
Speaker 4: it does if we didn't see what just happened last
Speaker 4: year with Josh Allen and Justin Herbert. Because he is
Speaker 4: a little bit scattershot with accuracy. Sometimes there is something
Speaker 4: you have to read into when it comes to projecting
Speaker 4: him into a full time role in the NFL. He
Speaker 4: some only started seventeen games. But because we've seen toolsy
Speaker 4: guys succeed recently, I think it's caused both the media
Speaker 4: and teams to say, all right, I'll take the toolsy guy.
Speaker 4: Because for a lot of reasons, the rules have changed,
Speaker 4: offensive coaching is better in the NFL than it's ever been.
Speaker 4: I think the gap between college and pro football has
Speaker 4: shrunk a little bit that it's easier to project guys
Speaker 4: if you can do things they're comfortable with for a
Speaker 4: lot of different reasons. I think that that is worth making.
Speaker 4: But I don't think we would have said that even
Speaker 4: two years ago.
Speaker 2: Do do people overreact to possible exceptions to the rule?
Speaker 4: Then?
Speaker 2: Is Josh Allen an exception to the rule?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: It's lower level competition as as good as Wyoming football
Speaker 2: has been to whatever you believe it is. I mean,
Speaker 2: North Dakota State is not playing top tier teams, so
Speaker 2: we're talking about toolsy against lower level competition, whereas Justin
Speaker 2: Herbert obviously, I mean, you can make Pack twelve jokes,
Speaker 2: but he was playing against higher level competition. He was
Speaker 2: playing against the Auburn defense a year and a half ago.
Speaker 2: What is that an element to things? And you mentioned
Speaker 2: the number of games guys have started, Mitch Trubisky started
Speaker 2: a season in college. You look at I mean, there
Speaker 2: are four year guys who work out. There are four
Speaker 2: of you guys who don't work out. Is it just
Speaker 2: see a GM seeing an example of somebody who worked out,
Speaker 2: and they're like, well, could be our guy too.
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 4: I think people absolutely talk themselves into the exception too.
Speaker 4: Often and with Josh Allen. You know, I learned this
Speaker 4: in the twenty nineteen season. I went to Buffalo and
Speaker 4: I spent a couple of days there and I talked
Speaker 4: to him for a while. When you talk to him
Speaker 4: and the people around him and the coaching staff there
Speaker 4: in the front office there, he has a real desire
Speaker 4: to get better. He's also very smart. You know, when
Speaker 4: you watched him play in college, I think it would
Speaker 4: have been easy to see that style of play and
Speaker 4: think he's this big, oafish guy, and in reality, that's
Speaker 4: not true at all. And I think that his intellect
Speaker 4: and his desire to get better played a huge role
Speaker 4: in the strides that he made. So if you look
Speaker 4: at a guy and just say that's a tools he prospect,
Speaker 4: maybe he can beat Josh Allen. I think you're reading
Speaker 4: into the wrong things. The thing about that, though, is
Speaker 4: that everything I've heard about Trey Lance is he is
Speaker 4: that type of person where he is cerebral, he does
Speaker 4: approach it the right way, and there are these glowing reviews.
Speaker 4: If those two pieces are working in concert, maybe he
Speaker 4: can be another guy that takes a similar step that
Speaker 4: Josh Allen did. But those other intangible factors I think
Speaker 4: have to be part of that conversation.
Speaker 1: Some of the other guys that come to mind when
Speaker 1: you talk about exception to the rule or guys that
Speaker 1: broke the mold. Obviously, Lamar Jackson's had a lot of success.
Speaker 1: Patrick Mahomes had a lot of success in college. I
Speaker 1: don't know if anyone projected this kind of success moving
Speaker 1: forward in the NFL. Who else comes to mind for
Speaker 1: guys that GMS maybe have in the back of their
Speaker 1: mind is like, maybe we could get the next blank.
Speaker 4: Well, I think that DeVante Smith is going to be
Speaker 4: an exception conversation here over the next week, because if
Speaker 4: you look at the history of guys with that body
Speaker 4: type and that weight, it's not good. And there are
Speaker 4: mostly shorter guys. So he's even taller and leaner than
Speaker 4: some of the other players who weigh less than one
Speaker 4: hundred and seventy pounds. If he was drafted in a
Speaker 4: top fifteen, for example, and succeeded, there are very few
Speaker 4: players that size who've ever been drafted at that level,
Speaker 4: and very fewer even still that have gone on to
Speaker 4: be successful. There are so many it's always funny the
Speaker 4: players that we get here mentioned over and over again,
Speaker 4: but maybe he can be this and it's always that
Speaker 4: exception guy Josh Allen to be the quarterbacks. DeShawn Jackson
Speaker 4: is the undersized receiver. Every single time there's a five
Speaker 4: to ten guy who weigh one hundred and sixty eight
Speaker 4: pounds and runs a four to three eight, it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: he can just be to Shawn Jackson's there's one to
Speaker 4: Shawn Jackson, and I think there are a lot of
Speaker 4: mistakes made if you're trying to chase that exception. But
Speaker 4: I think he'll be an example and in just on
Speaker 4: a broader level this year, this is the short armed
Speaker 4: tackle group that it is a prevailing trait among all
Speaker 4: of these guys because when we talk about Penney Seool,
Speaker 4: I love Penney School. I think he has a rare
Speaker 4: combination of frame and movement for somebody at that position,
Speaker 4: but he's not a generational the word that gets thrown
Speaker 4: all the way around all the time. He's not a
Speaker 4: generational process because he doesn't check all of the typical boxes.
Speaker 4: He has thirty three inch arms that's small for a tackle,
Speaker 4: and a lot of guys in this class fall into
Speaker 4: that category. Rashan Slater's arms are short. Brady Christensen has
Speaker 4: really short arms. Liam Eichenberg has really short arms. So
Speaker 4: what are you going to do with those guys? And
Speaker 4: there are success stories of that position. Jake Matthews is
Speaker 4: a thirty three and a half guy, Mitchell Schwartz is
Speaker 4: a thirty three and a half guy. Lyle Collins is
Speaker 4: actually shaped a lot like Penney suol Is. But again,
Speaker 4: you're talking yourself into exceptions, and I think it happens
Speaker 4: every year at a lot of positions, but this year
Speaker 4: it's concentrated in a couple specific areas.
Speaker 1: One of the other things that I know Dan and
Speaker 1: I talked about, you mentioned Devonte Smith. I just want
Speaker 1: to come back to that for a second. It seems like,
Speaker 1: broadly speaking, at least from our vantage point, it's a
Speaker 1: pretty loaded wide receiver class. Maybe that's a bit overshadowed
Speaker 1: by the fact that so much talk, at least in
Speaker 1: the top ten has been around quarterbacks and how are
Speaker 1: we gonna have five quarterbacks taken in the top ten,
Speaker 1: But at least from our vantage point and about yours, Robert,
Speaker 1: it feels like a really, really truly loaded wide receiver cord.
Speaker 4: It's interesting because last year was build the same way,
Speaker 4: and I would say the number of guys is probably
Speaker 4: similar last year in this year, but they're shaped much different.
Speaker 3: This year.
Speaker 4: You have a lot of guys who are in that
Speaker 4: five eight to five eleven range. And I'll keep going
Speaker 4: back to arm length. That sound like a weird.
Speaker 3: Scout, No good.
Speaker 4: My buddy Nat Tice, who does the show with me,
Speaker 4: tweeted something I can't remember the exact details of it,
Speaker 4: but wide receivers with less than short arms shorter than
Speaker 4: thirty two inches. There's only been like twenty five of
Speaker 4: them or something in the past decade. I think half
Speaker 4: of them are coming out this year. So just I
Speaker 4: think the shape of playmakers is changing and you're seeing
Speaker 4: that manifest in this class. So last year you could
Speaker 4: get a Justin Jefferson or a true prototypical outside sort
Speaker 4: of receiver at twenty five and that guy could be
Speaker 4: an All Pro. This year, there are a lot of
Speaker 4: guys that are they slot guys. Is Elijah Moore Kenny?
Speaker 4: Can he play outside? What is Rondeo Moore? The idea
Speaker 4: that Kadarius Tony is billed as a bigger guy compared
Speaker 4: to some of the other people in this class, I
Speaker 4: think says a lot, so I think it beyond the
Speaker 4: depth of it this year. I think it speaks to
Speaker 4: how many different types of players are being put in
Speaker 4: positions to succeed at receiver now compared to would have
Speaker 4: been ten years ago. And you can understand why that's happening.
Speaker 4: The idea of space as currency in football has changed
Speaker 4: a lot.
Speaker 3: I think in.
Speaker 4: College it had been that way for a while, but
Speaker 4: I think in the NFL we're kind of coming to
Speaker 4: that place where we have a lot more three or
Speaker 4: four wide sets. You have a guy that's playing in
Speaker 4: the slot consistently. I mean eleven personnel and three receiver
Speaker 4: sets in the NFL only became the prevailing personnel group
Speaker 4: in the league less than a decade ago, so the
Speaker 4: types of players and body types haven't necessarily caught up
Speaker 4: to the way the sport currently looks, and I think
Speaker 4: that we're seeing a lot of that with the types
Speaker 4: of receivers that are available in this group.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you mentioned personnel groupings because if you look
Speaker 2: across the sport, and this is the stuff that actually
Speaker 2: really interests me about the NFL when I do have
Speaker 2: time to watch, which isn't often is certain coaches, especially
Speaker 2: younger guys, are able to do so much out of
Speaker 2: single personnel groups. Right, it's the forty nine ers playing
Speaker 2: what twenty one personnel and using an athletic fullback, Or
Speaker 2: it's the Packers and the Rams using twelve personnel and
Speaker 2: utilizing tight ends, or the Saints not even using I
Speaker 2: believe it's the Saints not even using a tight end
Speaker 2: a lot. What is it about these younger minds at
Speaker 2: coach and coordinator that will sort of affect where where
Speaker 2: we value certain guys. Be it the shorter receivers, be
Speaker 2: it Hbax, be it Kadarius Tony who can move all
Speaker 2: over the place. How is value changing?
Speaker 4: It's interesting because I think with McVeigh and the Rams
Speaker 4: it gets the opposite. They were eleven personnel right ninety
Speaker 4: seven percent of the time in his first year because
Speaker 4: it's what worked, and I think that is to me,
Speaker 4: the more interesting part of all of this is that
Speaker 4: fewer coaches are fighting what's working. They're more open minded
Speaker 4: about how to approach this kind of stuff. I think
Speaker 4: the Titans are a really good example. So the Titans
Speaker 4: under MATTL. Fleuor were a Shanahan Kubiak tinged offense a
Speaker 4: lot of outside zone play action. As they got deeper
Speaker 4: into their time with Arthur Smith, who took over for
Speaker 4: Matt with Fluor, they started using more gap running schemes,
Speaker 4: more of a vertical power play action game, and less
Speaker 4: of the boot game. So I think there are just
Speaker 4: coaches all around the league who are saying, what's working.
Speaker 4: How do I filter these ideas through my players and
Speaker 4: not fight uphill against the things that are efficient, And
Speaker 4: one way to do that, I think is creating complexity
Speaker 4: via personnel groups. I think if you're lining up in
Speaker 4: eleven personnel seventy five percent of the time and that's
Speaker 4: how you're living, you're probably doing yourself a disservice. You
Speaker 4: probably don't have as deep, at as varied a group
Speaker 4: of pass catchers and skill position players as you probably want.
Speaker 4: You know, talking about the Bengals and what they need
Speaker 4: to do them going with Jamar Chase at five I
Speaker 4: think makes a lot of sense because they I think
Speaker 4: led the league in eleven personnel last year. They have
Speaker 4: through receivers on the field. At the same time, I
Speaker 4: wouldn't want to live that way In an ideal world,
Speaker 4: I would want to have more options than that, and
Speaker 4: a way to create complexity, even if it's not really
Speaker 4: that much more complex.
Speaker 2: Something you mentioned in going through some smaller receivers is
Speaker 2: what is Rondale Moore. It's a fantastic question, and it's
Speaker 2: a question that sort of pops up more and more.
Speaker 2: This year we have Kyle Pitts, right who is a
Speaker 2: tight end who can play like receiver and he's not
Speaker 2: a tweeter because some lucky team is going to figure
Speaker 2: out how to weaponize Kyle Pitts. Last year we had
Speaker 2: Isaiah Simmons. What is Isaiah Simmons? You know, he's a safety,
Speaker 2: He's a linebacker. He can line up, you know, and
Speaker 2: rush the quarterback if need be. Are more and more
Speaker 2: coaches and coordinators on either side of the ball getting
Speaker 2: better at figuring out what a player is instead of
Speaker 2: what a player isn't.
Speaker 4: Yes, I think, I think absolutely they are. Ty brought
Speaker 4: up to DK Metcalf. I think it's a perfect example.
Speaker 4: One of the questions about DK Metcalf coming in was, well.
Speaker 3: What does he get? What can he do? We haven't
Speaker 3: seen him do many things.
Speaker 4: He lined up on the left side of the formation
Speaker 4: at ole Miss and ran very fast in a straight
Speaker 4: line all the time. That's what he did. And instead
Speaker 4: of saying, well, what else can he do, the Seahawks
Speaker 4: picked him and said let's just have him do that
Speaker 4: for a while. And it worked. And that's what you
Speaker 4: saw him do. I mean as a freshman, as a rookie.
Speaker 4: He lined up in one spot and he ran go
Speaker 4: routes and slants. That's it, and it worked because that's
Speaker 4: what he's comfortable doing. His teammate from ole Miss, AJ Brown,
Speaker 4: I think, is another great example. AJ Brown is fantastic
Speaker 4: with the ball in his hands. He is a monster.
Speaker 4: He is so big, he's so strong, such a smooth
Speaker 4: mover that Titans said, okay, this is what you do. Well,
Speaker 4: we're gonna build in yack opportunity after yack opportunity into
Speaker 4: the structure of the offense until you get your footing
Speaker 4: and you get a comfort level with some other aspects
Speaker 4: of what we want to do. And I think that's
Speaker 4: happening more and more often. And a guy like Rondeo Moore,
Speaker 4: there's a version of him that fits in the NFL. Now,
Speaker 4: if you go look at what the Rams have done,
Speaker 4: for example, with all of the jet motion that they
Speaker 4: use and the eye candy that they use. The Chiefs
Speaker 4: are another good example of that. The one I'm picturing
Speaker 4: is green Bay. Green Bay runs a similar The bones
Speaker 4: of their offense are similar to what the Rams want
Speaker 4: to do. They come from the same tree, but they
Speaker 4: don't have that eye candy deception element to what they
Speaker 4: are because they don't have that small space receiver. They
Speaker 4: had to use Tyler Irvin in that role, who's a
Speaker 4: hybrid returner. They had to use Aaron Jones in that
Speaker 4: role even though he's a running back. A guy like
Speaker 4: Rondel Moore fits perfectly into that idea, And that archetype
Speaker 4: of player didn't exist in the NFL ten years ago.
Speaker 4: Even if you had a slot guy, it was a
Speaker 4: Wes Welker type. There wasn't as much motion. You didn't
Speaker 4: need as much explosiveness from that type of player. And
Speaker 4: I think that now a guy like that is more
Speaker 4: valuable in the league than he ever would have been before.
Speaker 2: So basically, if you could reboot Taevon Austin to twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one, there's a better chance that he could find
Speaker 2: a niche in the league.
Speaker 4: Yes, but I also think that I don't know if
Speaker 4: it would have been a bigger niche than he had before.
Speaker 4: I think the problem with tavan Austin is not his usefulness.
Speaker 4: I think it's where he was drafted. If Tavon Austin
Speaker 4: was a fourth round pick, we wouldn't look at Tavon
Speaker 4: Austin's career and say that's a disappointment. And I think
Speaker 4: that's an aspect of drafting and value that comes up
Speaker 4: over and over again. For me, I would never take
Speaker 4: the small, fast guy high. I just wouldn't do it
Speaker 4: because you can find that guy elsewhere. Speed is available.
Speaker 4: Can Jalen Giten is a perfect example to me. Jalen Geiiten,
Speaker 4: I think was available after cutdown Day and signed with
Speaker 4: the Chargers last year, and he runs a four to three.
Speaker 4: He gives you a vertical aspect to your offense. You
Speaker 4: don't need to draft him eleventh overall like the Raiders
Speaker 4: did with Henry Ruggs. That's not necess I feel like
Speaker 4: teams are looking at what it's happening with Tyreek Hill
Speaker 4: and said, speed is what we're missing. Tyreek Hill isn't
Speaker 4: good because he's fast. Tyreek Hill is good because he's
Speaker 4: fast and he is able to weaponize that speed because
Speaker 4: he doesn't have to slow down because he's incredibly strong. Again,
Speaker 4: he's one of those guys that I think leads to
Speaker 4: evaluation mistakes among other teams because they're looking for the
Speaker 4: wrong things.
Speaker 1: So we haven't mentioned his name yet. Trevor Lawrence. Trevor
Speaker 1: Lawrence comes into the league presumably first overall pick. He's
Speaker 1: going to go to the Jacksonville Jaguars. He's going to
Speaker 1: have a new coach, a former college coach in Urban Meyer.
Speaker 1: What does that situation look like for a guy like
Speaker 1: a Trevor Lawrence, who many on the college side have
Speaker 1: viewed for a long time, even before he was playing
Speaker 1: for Clemson as a generational type talent. Can he succeed
Speaker 1: at the next level quickly?
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 4: I do believe that he can, because if you look
Speaker 4: at what the Jaguars have done, I actually think it's
Speaker 4: a really fascinating way to do a teardown. I am
Speaker 4: a fan of pressing the reset button hard. I think
Speaker 4: that it's a way to get it out of these
Speaker 4: really murky middle ground situations. The team find teams find
Speaker 4: themselves in what the Dolphins did at what the right
Speaker 4: after the Browns did it, I think is exactly how
Speaker 4: you should approach that sort of thing. It's why I
Speaker 4: get frustrated with the Bears and them trying to tinker
Speaker 4: with this model that clearly isn't working. The Jags have
Speaker 4: done that. They hit the reset button in pretty much
Speaker 4: every conceivable way. They traded Khalais Campbell, they traded Yanni Knakway,
Speaker 4: they traded Jay and Ramsey. That one we can discuss,
Speaker 4: but they I think that by purging the roster of
Speaker 4: expensive talent starting over, you've given yourself a blank slate.
Speaker 4: The one area where they did not do that, where
Speaker 4: they did not purge the roster of second contract and
Speaker 4: third contract veterans was the offensive line. They brought back
Speaker 4: Cam Robinson on the franchise tag to play left tackle
Speaker 4: for them this year. Jawan Taylor s so their right tackle,
Speaker 4: so off aj Can, Brandon Linder, Andrew Norwell I believe
Speaker 4: is still there. Rattling off starting offensive lines by hard
Speaker 4: is something at the copy. But they have five starting
Speaker 4: caliber line and they brought back to their left tackle
Speaker 4: in the tag, and I think at first glance, you
Speaker 4: look at that and you'd say, why is a team
Speaker 4: drafting first overall, using the franchise tag on someone. That's
Speaker 4: something you do to keep your roster together when you
Speaker 4: think you're close. But the idea of saying our offensive
Speaker 4: line is going to be intact when we get this
Speaker 4: once every ten year sort of guy in here because
Speaker 4: we can't ruin him. I actually like that as a
Speaker 4: way to allocate your resources. So if the line is
Speaker 4: and I think sometimes it's overstated how bad these situations are,
Speaker 4: but it's not as if we have to dig back
Speaker 4: into deep history to find a number one overall pick
Speaker 4: with a bad offensive line. It happened last year. That's
Speaker 4: very recent. And I think that Lawrence's situation with the protection,
Speaker 4: which is where I'd start in any of these conversations,
Speaker 4: is better than it was with Joe Burrow last year.
Speaker 4: The weapons is an interesting conversation because they have Leviska Chanalt,
Speaker 4: who they drafted last year I believe in the second round.
Speaker 4: Interesting talent. I mean, obviously he had was one of
Speaker 4: those super charged yack guys coming into the NFL. I'll
Speaker 4: be curious to see what he looks like in this offense.
Speaker 4: But he's young. They have Marvin Jones they brought in
Speaker 4: as a one year free agent rental. I think he's
Speaker 4: the perfect sort of guy you have as an outside option.
Speaker 4: And then DJ Shark is in the last year of
Speaker 4: his contract. They have another first round pick and an
Speaker 4: extra second round pick because Chark is going to the
Speaker 4: last year of his deal. He wasn't picked by this regime.
Speaker 4: He could absolutely see them trying to draft a pass
Speaker 4: catcher high up in this draft to add a little
Speaker 4: juice to that group. If they go get an Elijah
Speaker 4: Moore or somebody like that, that's a I like that.
Speaker 4: That is a group you can work with. In the
Speaker 4: personnel side. On the coaching staff side, Daryl Bevell is
Speaker 4: their offensive coordinator. Daryl Bevell is as NFL establishment as
Speaker 4: you can possibly get. Everyone's team has had. Daryl Bevell
Speaker 4: is their office at that point, and he's not an
Speaker 4: exciting name, but if you look at the results, it's
Speaker 4: been pretty solid. You know, they were too run heavy
Speaker 4: in Seattle. How much of that was him and how
Speaker 4: much of that was Pete Carroll at the end, It's
Speaker 4: hard to say, but they were I believe seventh in
Speaker 4: EPA per drop back over the from twenty twelve through
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen when he was there with Russell Wilson. That
Speaker 4: is encouraging to me. He was very good with Matthew
Speaker 4: Stafford in twenty nineteen for the first half of the season,
Speaker 4: that play action, aggressive down the field approach, which I
Speaker 4: think will work out well with Trevor Lawrence. And the
Speaker 4: other thing that not a lot of people have talked
Speaker 4: about but I find interesting, is that he was double
Speaker 4: was with Russell Wilson at the beginning in Seattle when
Speaker 4: Russell Wilson was kind of the cog in this machine
Speaker 4: that had a great defense in a great running game.
Speaker 4: And I don't think Trevor Lawrence should ever be that.
Speaker 4: But I do like having an offensive coordinator that understands
Speaker 4: how to insulate his quarterback if necessary, how to take
Speaker 4: something off of Lawrence's plate, if they get to a
Speaker 4: place where he's getting hit way too much, something like that,
Speaker 4: like we need to drop back a little bit less.
Speaker 4: So I just think the pieces are in place. And
Speaker 4: that's before we even mention what influence Urban Meyer is
Speaker 4: going to have. What does this look like, So all
Speaker 4: of the factors combined, I'll say this, The offensive line
Speaker 4: is not great, the weapons aren't great. We have not
Speaker 4: total certainty about what the schematic circumstances are going to
Speaker 4: look like. But we have seen recent examples where it's
Speaker 4: been much much worse with much lesser quarterbacks than Trevor Lawrence.
Speaker 1: You bring up Urban in college obviously a god. How
Speaker 1: do NFL people feel about a Ramayer?
Speaker 4: I think it's curiosity more than anything else. You know, what,
Speaker 4: how do you build a program at this level? What
Speaker 4: types of players do you look for? What does he
Speaker 4: look like in building a roster when he can't have
Speaker 4: anybody that he wants. You know, when somebody that you
Speaker 4: pick in the third round has to start for you
Speaker 4: because you have no defensive talent, how frustrating is it
Speaker 4: going to be when that guy is talent efficient in
Speaker 4: ways that you're not typically used to dealing with Schematically?
Speaker 4: What does it look like? I mean, obviously Urban Meyer
Speaker 4: ushered in an entire new era of what offensive football
Speaker 4: looks like at the college level. What does it look
Speaker 4: like in the NFL? How does he mesh with? Again,
Speaker 4: somebody who is extremely traditional in Daryl Bevell and Brian
Speaker 4: Schottenheimer is their passing game coordinator. It's hard to have
Speaker 4: a more establishment last name in the NFL than that,
Speaker 4: So what does it end up looking like?
Speaker 3: That? To me is the overarching feeling here is I
Speaker 3: want to see what it is.
Speaker 4: I don't know how to feel about it yet, but
Speaker 4: I know I want to watch what it looks like
Speaker 4: from day one.
Speaker 2: When gms and scouts or whoever is making decisions in
Speaker 2: the front office look back to college, do they look
Speaker 2: in the way I guess Bill Belichick has done. Like
Speaker 2: Bill Belichick will listen to Nick Saban, perhaps more than
Speaker 2: other college coaches, and I guess draft Rutgers players. That's
Speaker 2: a thing that was there for a little bit. But
Speaker 2: is there some sort of benefit of the doubt, especially
Speaker 2: with coaches who used to coach a position group. Nick
Speaker 2: Saban used to coach defensive backs. Kirk Farens as your
Speaker 2: beloved Marshallyanda, We'll tell you he was an offensive line coach.
Speaker 2: He was an offensive line coach in the NFL. Dabosweeney
Speaker 2: coached receivers before he was the head coach at Clemson,
Speaker 2: and Clemson receivers have done pretty well in the NFL.
Speaker 2: Is that something that gms and scouts have in the
Speaker 2: back of their mind as they're building their boards. Just
Speaker 2: the background of the college head coaches positionally that Okay,
Speaker 2: they can identify, they can develop this guy's going to
Speaker 2: be ready for the NFL because this is their specific
Speaker 2: head coach and that is his specialty.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 4: I don't know if the GMS are necessarily thinking that,
Speaker 4: but I absolutely think if I were the owner and
Speaker 4: I were looking for a slightly out of the box
Speaker 4: hire and somebody who and I go back and forth
Speaker 4: on this, I typically land when if I were hiring
Speaker 4: a head coach, yeah, and I were building my qualifications,
Speaker 4: I would start with a list of play calling offensive
Speaker 4: head coaches. That's where I would start, because I just
Speaker 4: think it's the easiest way to sustain success. You look
Speaker 4: at what happened with the Falcons when Kyle Shanahan left
Speaker 4: and how quickly they fell off. What's going to happen
Speaker 4: now that Arthur Smith is no longer in Tennessee after
Speaker 4: he had so much success. We don't ask those questions
Speaker 4: about Andy Reid and Sean Payton or even the Patriots
Speaker 4: with Josh McDaniels to a certain extent, they're there all
Speaker 4: the time.
Speaker 3: So that's where I would start. But if you weren't
Speaker 3: one of those people.
Speaker 4: If you were a little bit more open mind about
Speaker 4: the types of coaches you'd want to run your program.
Speaker 4: I think looking at a college coach and saying that
Speaker 4: person has managed a roster, he's thought about where holes
Speaker 4: can be, he's thought about how position groups fit together,
Speaker 4: all of that stuff. I think there's value in that.
Speaker 4: I think there's value in being able to look at
Speaker 4: a coach who has big picture experience and how that
Speaker 4: can translate to having personnel control in the NFL, which
Speaker 4: he most likely does. I don't know what the actual
Speaker 4: details of it are, but he's in charge there, and
Speaker 4: I think that you can absolutely talk yourself into his
Speaker 4: experience building rosters at Ohio State informing what he'd be
Speaker 4: able to do in Jacksonville.
Speaker 2: Are there systems on either side of the ball that
Speaker 2: that scare gms that's just like, Okay, this team ran
Speaker 2: this three four, but I don't like what they did
Speaker 2: with gaps. I don't like the coverage is that they played.
Speaker 2: Are there specific systems in the way that like, obviously,
Speaker 2: the spread was something that NFL teams were wary of
Speaker 2: early on. Whatever spread means it's now obviously means like
Speaker 2: thirty different things. But other systems to this day where
Speaker 2: you're just like, I don't trust that these guys aren't
Speaker 2: taught to do this on either side of the ball.
Speaker 4: I feel like there's not as much hesitancy or there's
Speaker 4: not as much reticence among coaches now as there was
Speaker 4: five to ten years ago, because the same problems still exists.
Speaker 4: You know, the spread offense hasn't gone away. There's the
Speaker 4: RPOs and the way that the screen game works. When
Speaker 4: you watch Trevor Lawrence, mean, it's a Mickey Mouse offense
Speaker 4: compared to what he would run in the NFL.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's.
Speaker 4: Incredibly efficient, but a lot of it is baked into
Speaker 4: the structure in terms of what he's doing.
Speaker 3: And I don't think that is as.
Speaker 4: Much of a concern as it used to be because
Speaker 4: those two things are converging. There's more RPOs in the
Speaker 4: NFL than there was five to ten years ago. I
Speaker 4: think NFL teams are willing to steal from college wholesale
Speaker 4: in a way they weren't ten years ago, So that
Speaker 4: concerned to me, is a little less important. Same goes
Speaker 4: for wide receivers. I remember Kys Shanahan talking about this
Speaker 4: a couple of years ago in regard to Deebo Samuel
Speaker 4: where he was saying that you don't see as many
Speaker 4: receivers run traditional routes in college for a few different reasons.
Speaker 4: It's not the structure of the offense. They're not playing
Speaker 4: against a lot of pressman coverage, if they're not playing
Speaker 4: in the SEC, all that other stuff. But instead of
Speaker 4: saying this is a problem because I can't evaluate that person,
Speaker 4: he's saying I'm gonna do what works for him. I'm
Speaker 4: gonna get the ball in his hands. I'm gonna let
Speaker 4: them play in space. So that's kind of what I
Speaker 4: was saying before about offensive coaches evolving in the league.
Speaker 4: I think there are fewer excuses and fewer instances of
Speaker 4: Bill Walsh did it this way, so that's how we're
Speaker 4: going to do it. I think those walls have fallen
Speaker 4: down a little bit defensively, I think it's a little
Speaker 4: bit more complicated. I think that's where some bigger gaps
Speaker 4: are starting to exist, especially when you're not dealing with
Speaker 4: some of the teams that have high quality quarterback cornerback talent.
Speaker 3: If you look at what Ohio State.
Speaker 4: Had been doing when Okuda was there and some of
Speaker 4: those other guys, what Alabama can do on a play
Speaker 4: to play basis Georgia, there's a press man, they're doing
Speaker 4: things and you're seeing them in man coverage. You can
Speaker 4: project that into the NFL. If you're looking at some
Speaker 4: of these teams in the Big Twelve or other places
Speaker 4: where it's quarters every play and that's all you see
Speaker 4: them do, it's really hard to project defensive backs out
Speaker 4: of that system in terms of what you expect from them.
Speaker 4: I mean, if you're watching a corner turn in quarters
Speaker 4: every single play, you don't know what he looks like
Speaker 4: in man coverage for the most part. So I think
Speaker 4: that gap is interesting, But also I think that stuff
Speaker 4: is starting to converge a little bit. The idea that
Speaker 4: Carl Scott, who was one of the people who oversaw
Speaker 4: the secondary in Alabama for so many years and the
Speaker 4: ways that they would play those specific coverages that they
Speaker 4: measured in, is now on the staff with the Vikings.
Speaker 4: I think that's really interesting. I think that's even another
Speaker 4: example of the two games kind of coming to get
Speaker 4: other in ways they weren't before. Brandon Staley is another
Speaker 4: good one. He did a ton of college specific stuff,
Speaker 4: especially with fronts with the Chargers last year. So as
Speaker 4: coaches get younger as coach, as they get more open minded,
Speaker 4: I think we're gonna see some of this stuff filter
Speaker 4: both ways.
Speaker 2: Are there guys that you don't anticipate being taken high
Speaker 2: at all this year where you just you've caught them,
Speaker 2: even caught them watching tape on other guys where you've said,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I think this guy's just gonna be good.
Speaker 2: He might be projected as like a fifth round pick.
Speaker 2: I guess this is your football guy, right, capital F,
Speaker 2: capitol G football guy. Are there guys this year Whe're
Speaker 2: just like, Yeah, I think this guy's gonna be in
Speaker 2: the league for six years.
Speaker 4: Those I haven't digging that deep into the pool of players,
Speaker 4: if I'm being honest. I mean I've watched the top
Speaker 4: ten or at top like eight to ten at most positions.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think of somebody that I've stumbled onto that, Like,
Speaker 4: there are guys that I've watched a little bit lower
Speaker 4: at certain spots that I think are intriguing. Peyton Turner
Speaker 4: from Houston is an edge rusher that I watch him.
Speaker 4: I'm like, Oh, that guy, I don't know. I like
Speaker 4: what he's He's high cut, and the competition isn't very good.
Speaker 4: I don't really know what to make of him, but
Speaker 4: he's somebody that jumped out to me a little bit.
Speaker 4: But other than that, I mean, most of the guys
Speaker 4: I've watched are in the top one hundred or so,
Speaker 4: so I'm not the best person to ask about that.
Speaker 2: Do you have any theories like you did about Justin
Speaker 2: Herbert that aren't necessarily grounded in specific data? But you're
Speaker 2: just like, look, this is how I feel about this
Speaker 2: kind of player, this is how I feel about this position.
Speaker 2: I don't care that I don't have a ton of
Speaker 2: supporting proof. Maybe you did for Justin Herbert and he
Speaker 2: was the exception. What are your latest theories about anything
Speaker 2: with the draft?
Speaker 3: This one is rooted in a little bit of data.
Speaker 4: One of the conversations I've had a lot over the
Speaker 4: last month, and I've written about it, We've talked about
Speaker 4: on our show A Bunch is what the Bengal should
Speaker 4: do at five and all of the kind of points
Speaker 4: in forming that discussion. So if you're the Bengals and
Speaker 4: you could pick between Penny Suel and Jamar Chase, you
Speaker 4: I don't think that whatever direction you go in that
Speaker 4: whoever you pick among those two, you're not just picking
Speaker 4: one of those players. You're sending a message about what
Speaker 4: you value in picking one of those players. And I
Speaker 4: understand if they went with Chase, if they assigned Riley
Speaker 4: Reef in free agency, they have two starting caliber tackles.
Speaker 4: You probably find an interior alignment in the second round.
Speaker 4: And if you think Jamar Chase is a rare talent,
Speaker 4: if you want to pick him at five, go crazy.
Speaker 4: He feels in need all that stuff. But I think
Speaker 4: it's led to conversations about scarcity and about where we
Speaker 4: find these players, because in my mind, when I wrote
Speaker 4: about it and have thought about it, I just see
Speaker 4: things you can't get elsewhere. And I've just watched what's
Speaker 4: happened at the receiver position, especially we talked about DK
Speaker 4: Metcalfe and A. J. Brown already where you can find
Speaker 4: star level receivers in throughout the league. And then I
Speaker 4: think about tackles. It's harder. It's much much harder to
Speaker 4: find high quality tackles beyond the first round, and even
Speaker 4: past that, it's hard to find starting quality tackles in
Speaker 4: free agency. Riley Reef was the best offensive tackle in
Speaker 4: free agency this year that's not very good. There's so
Speaker 4: many receivers now, whether it's the depth of certain draft
Speaker 4: classes or guys that you can find in the free
Speaker 4: agent market. I just think it's harder to find a
Speaker 4: really good receiver or really good offensive tackle than it
Speaker 4: is to find a really good receiver. That, though, leads
Speaker 4: to a conversation and some questions about do you need
Speaker 4: high quality offensive tackles? Where does positional value fit into this?
Speaker 4: So everything about the Bengals and what they're thinking about
Speaker 4: and the debates that are happening in that building has
Speaker 4: just led me down so many different paths over the
Speaker 4: last month. I've thought more about the Bengals than I
Speaker 4: ever thought I would in the lead up to any
Speaker 4: sort of NFL draft.
Speaker 2: Let me jump in real quick. So, what is because
Speaker 2: you mentioned that, and you mentioned earlier you can wait
Speaker 2: on speed. You can find speed in the fourth round.
Speaker 2: You know, you can find a dude who's five to eleven,
Speaker 2: two hundred and can run a four to four or whatever,
Speaker 2: and you can plug him in the.
Speaker 1: Way you see fit.
Speaker 2: What does your positional value draft board look like? What
Speaker 2: do you need to grab as soon as possible if
Speaker 2: you are Robert May's general manager, and what are you
Speaker 2: waiting on?
Speaker 4: I think, I mean, quarterback is a different conversation outside
Speaker 4: of quarterback. Yeah, yeah, outside of quarterback. I don't have
Speaker 4: any hard and fast rules. I've rethought a lot of
Speaker 4: this stuff compared to what I would have thought five
Speaker 4: years ago. If you had asked me five years ago,
Speaker 4: I would have said quarterback, edge rusher, offensive tackle, a corner, receiver,
Speaker 4: and then probably interior defensive line, interior offensive line, and
Speaker 4: safety somewhere in there. I think the game has changed
Speaker 4: a lot, and I think that my views on it
Speaker 4: have changed a decent amount. I think corner and edge
Speaker 4: rusher are closer than they would have been. There's a
Speaker 4: lot of data out there suggesting that past coverage is
Speaker 4: more valuable than past rush. I don't know how much
Speaker 4: I believe that or buy into that. I think they're
Speaker 4: probably pretty close. I also think that if you can
Speaker 4: find a dominant interior rusher, that that changes the equation
Speaker 4: in the same way that an edge rusher might like
Speaker 4: an Aaron Donald or Chris Jones or even at Toforest
Speaker 4: Buckner last year. I think those guys. The gap between
Speaker 4: that and the best edge rusher has probably shrunk a
Speaker 4: little bit. I think that safeties aren't less valuable than
Speaker 4: they've been, but with the way the league is going,
Speaker 4: or seeing so many more split safety coverages in the NFL,
Speaker 4: that prototypical middle of the field center field safety that
Speaker 4: needs to be rangy isn't as valuable anymore because there
Speaker 4: are a fewer teams sticking in a Cover three shell
Speaker 4: and playing that way. So if your safety requires less
Speaker 4: movement skills, maybe he's not as impressive on tape and
Speaker 4: you can find him a little bit later in the draft.
Speaker 4: So I don't know if their importance has changed, or
Speaker 4: if the types of players that can fit those roles
Speaker 4: that pool has just gotten bigger. So I think it's
Speaker 4: very muddy. I mean, it depends on what sort of
Speaker 4: system you're running. It's definitely something that I've rethought and
Speaker 4: reshuffled more in the last couple of years than I
Speaker 4: probably had in the previous five years combined.
Speaker 1: All right, mister Mays, we'll get you out of here
Speaker 1: on this rapid fire. I'm going to put you on
Speaker 1: the spot. I hate to do it, but's why we're here.
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a handful of teams and
Speaker 1: I want you to tell me who they should pick. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's do it. The Jets at two, Justin Fields. I
Speaker 1: like that pick. That's the correct pick for those playing
Speaker 1: along at home. The Falcons at four.
Speaker 4: Trey Lance if Justin Fields is off aboarded too, Okay.
Speaker 1: My New York Giants at eleven.
Speaker 3: Elijah Vera Tucker if he's there, and.
Speaker 1: Your Chicago Bear is at twenty.
Speaker 4: That I don't have as much of a conviction on
Speaker 4: because I think that it'll depend on who's around and
Speaker 4: certain positions. That team is not nearly as fully formed
Speaker 4: as people seem to like, or people seem to think
Speaker 4: and people seem to talk about. I don't think they're
Speaker 4: one receiver or one tackle. I think they need an
Speaker 4: offensive tackle, they need secondary help, they need receiving help.
Speaker 4: They could probably, I mean, there's so many different areas
Speaker 4: so idea. If we're up to me, and I think
Speaker 4: if Darisol was on the board, I would take him.
Speaker 4: I don't think he will be. If it were beyond that,
Speaker 4: I think it would probably come down to Rashad Bateman
Speaker 4: and Tevin Jenkins, and I'd probably take Bateman just because
Speaker 4: I love his game in the style which he plays,
Speaker 4: and who knows how long Al Robinson's going to be there,
Speaker 4: So again it's hard to say one specific guy just
Speaker 4: because I think they have more holes than other people might.
Speaker 1: And because we need to be inclusive. I should also
Speaker 1: mention at three traded up big big headlines here leading
Speaker 1: up to the draft, Dan's San Francisco forty fives.
Speaker 4: Well, if they, I mean, so can we use the
Speaker 4: players we already picked? Because if Justice Fields is there,
Speaker 4: I would.
Speaker 3: Pick Justin Fields.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But if he were to go to the Jets,
Speaker 4: then I'd still probably say Trey Lance for them too.
Speaker 4: That's who I would pick, probably over mac Jones. But
Speaker 4: I understand the argument for mac Jones for them. You know,
Speaker 4: Lance is a little bit more of a project in
Speaker 4: the sense that if the accuracy isn't where you'd want
Speaker 4: it to be, all that other stuff. The thing though
Speaker 4: he played the exact same amount of games as mac
Speaker 4: Jones in college. The idea that we talked about Mac
Speaker 4: Jones is this finished product and Trey Lance has so
Speaker 4: far to go, which I think is how it's being viewed.
Speaker 4: You know, mac Jones is the win now guy. Trey
Speaker 4: Lance is somebody who could sit for a year they
Speaker 4: started the exact same number of games in college, and
Speaker 4: that has not been brought up nearly.
Speaker 2: Off fit enough, Ty, here's my final question, just because
Speaker 2: life seems to be opening up Chicago. There are few,
Speaker 2: if any better places during the summer. What are you
Speaker 2: eating this summer in the beautiful city of Chicago, inside, outside,
Speaker 2: everywhere between.
Speaker 4: I'm so excited. I have dinner reservations at Suko, which
Speaker 4: is the Carlos Guiden who was on Top Chef and
Speaker 4: he ran Mechik. It's his new restaurant in River North.
Speaker 4: I'm excited to eat there this week.
Speaker 3: I have kind of.
Speaker 2: What kind of food is that?
Speaker 3: Mexican?
Speaker 4: It's Mexican food, so it's Mexican food with like French influence.
Speaker 4: And Samus's other place, who was had a Michelin star Rosemary,
Speaker 4: which is the new restaurant from Joe Flamm who won
Speaker 4: Top Chef. I know about the Chicago guy. So it's
Speaker 4: a Croatian Italian place in Fulton Market. The menu looks crazy,
Speaker 4: it looks exactly like what.
Speaker 3: I want to eat.
Speaker 4: And then there's a new Greek place in Logan Square
Speaker 4: Semi knew by one of the guys who was the
Speaker 4: head chef. I think at rpm Italian that opened a
Speaker 4: place called Andros Taverna in Logan Square. I want to
Speaker 4: say it's on Kedzie, right there near the park. I'm
Speaker 4: going there the week after. I have like six reservations
Speaker 4: I've already set up over the next couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: My wife looked up Rosemary and apparently there were only
Speaker 2: reservations at like nine to thirty on Mondays available, But
Speaker 2: that is stashed away. We will get there this summer.
Speaker 4: I may have pulled a couple strings, so WHOA. I
Speaker 4: don't want any more people to know who I am
Speaker 4: than know right now. I want this level of whatever
Speaker 4: fame is not famous the wrong word, but this level
Speaker 4: of awareness. The fact that I can get a table
Speaker 4: at a Chicago restaurant is exactly the sweet spot of
Speaker 4: where I want to be living.
Speaker 3: I say, no more than what I have right at
Speaker 3: this moment.
Speaker 2: That's a perfect level. I have no complaints. I would
Speaker 2: love to reach that level. I mean, I'm in the burbs,
Speaker 2: this is not that exciting, but there are so many
Speaker 2: places in the city I'm dying to try. Because I've
Speaker 2: only been here less than a year, so I essentially
Speaker 2: my Palette is still extremely green with Chicago.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to get down here. I mean it's this.
Speaker 4: There's so many places and they keep sprouting up. I
Speaker 4: mean obviously some places closed, but I mean there are
Speaker 4: three or four even new places that I'm really excited
Speaker 4: about that I haven't even gotten a try that came
Speaker 4: out as the pandemic was happening or right now. I
Speaker 4: mean Rosemary's brand brand new, So I'm really looking forward.
Speaker 4: Have you been to the things I'm most excited about.
Speaker 2: I think it's called Pizza Friendly Pizza. Have you been there?
Speaker 2: I have not, and I think it's in Ukrainian Village.
Speaker 2: You actually go through an alley to get it. It's
Speaker 2: like the perfect level of like very dumb, hipster pizza
Speaker 2: stand that could exist. It's wonderful.
Speaker 4: I think there's a bunch of them now on the
Speaker 4: West Side. There are too many of them for me
Speaker 4: to even try. I live right near the new Polyges
Speaker 4: and Wicker Park, and that they already have a Logan
Speaker 4: Square location. I mean, there's so many of them, I
Speaker 4: feel like I'm never gonna be able to try them all.
Speaker 4: I have to come and try your pizza at some
Speaker 4: point anytime.
Speaker 2: Anytime you tell me what toppings would make up the
Speaker 2: magnificent maze or whatever we call your square or circular pie.
Speaker 2: What is your topping of choice? Are you like your
Speaker 2: topping combo?
Speaker 4: I have a couple different ways that I go. I'm
Speaker 4: a big fan of artichoke on pizza. Okay, really like artichoke,
Speaker 4: and I am thinking of all the things I can
Speaker 4: put it on, put on it at piece because they have,
Speaker 4: like the most the biggest list of toppings. I'm a
Speaker 4: big fan of green olives on pizza, so some some
Speaker 4: sort of pepperoni, sausage, artichoke, green olive conversation combination is
Speaker 4: where I often.
Speaker 3: Like to live.
Speaker 2: You like that punch of salt?
Speaker 3: I do? I do?
Speaker 4: I know it's a lot, but for whatever reason, I
Speaker 4: just love green olives and it doesn't overwhelm me.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna think on this ty this. This is as
Speaker 2: good an insight as I could have hoped for.
Speaker 1: This is a natural segue from draft to salty pizza.
Speaker 1: I love it. A good way to close it out here,
Speaker 1: Robert Mays, enjoy the rest of your week. Best of
Speaker 1: luck to you. As the NFL Draft continues turning along.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll be short on sleep at some point,
Speaker 1: but always appreciate your coverage and watch us. Thank you
Speaker 1: very much for stopping by. Yeah, watch the stream.
Speaker 3: Check it out.
Speaker 1: Where can we find Can we find the stream?
Speaker 4: It'll be on Twitter, It'll be on the Athletics YouTube page.
Speaker 4: If you check the Athletic app, you'll be able to
Speaker 4: see it. I'm sure I'll tweet about it fifty times
Speaker 4: between now and the draft.
Speaker 3: But good.
Speaker 4: It's me Nate Tice, Dane brug or Lindsay Jones, and
Speaker 4: we're gonna start live at nine thirty Eastern, essentially after
Speaker 4: the fifteenth pick. We wanted not to compete with the broadcast,
Speaker 4: but as things are slowing down, we'll be speeding up.
Speaker 4: So hopefully people will come and spend some time.
Speaker 1: Done cool, well, enjoy the week, enjoy the draft, and
Speaker 1: we'll have to have you back.
Speaker 3: On soon anytime. Guys. I really appreciate the time. This
Speaker 3: is great, all.
Speaker 1: Right, Dan Robert mays one more time from the Athletic
Speaker 1: I feel smarter, actually.
Speaker 2: As do I I when he says things like you
Speaker 2: can wait on speed, just like draft speed, and like
Speaker 2: the third or fourth round. You know, there's always guys,
Speaker 2: of that body type with that ability. I thought to myself, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I will wait on speed as if I will ever
Speaker 2: be in that that that share deciding on how to
Speaker 2: build an NFL team. But like, yeah, yeah, that does
Speaker 2: make sense. Great call, so I mas was fantastic.
Speaker 1: I appreciate the insight of Mac Jones because Mac Jones,
Speaker 1: no disrespect to him. I don't get it.
Speaker 2: Give me well Son, I don't get. Let's break things out.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you want to pull up a
Speaker 2: mock draft or something like that. Are tell me the
Speaker 2: guys that you get and that you don't get or like,
Speaker 2: don't get that they're not higher and don't get that
Speaker 2: they are high? Who like? What names to you in
Speaker 2: this process? As a very casual NFL fan, sure ring
Speaker 2: out to you.
Speaker 1: I don't get any of the quarterbacks outside of Trevor
Speaker 1: Lawrence and Justin Fields. That's it. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: get the fascination with the others.
Speaker 2: You don't get the fascination with Zach. Like Zach Wilson
Speaker 2: had a really nice year, he had a great year.
Speaker 1: Now he had a great year, he had a great year.
Speaker 1: I still don't get it. I think it would be awesome.
Speaker 1: It may not make total sense to reunite Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: and Jamar Chase, but as Robert said, receiver is a
Speaker 1: position of need, and I think it would be a
Speaker 1: cool union to bring those two back together. So that's
Speaker 1: interesting to me. That's just sort of narrative though, that's narrative. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's not, you know, necessarily a gets versus not gets.
Speaker 1: I know that running backs don't get drafted that highly.
Speaker 1: I love Nagie Harris. So I love Nagie Harris, and
Speaker 1: I think he's going to be a monster at the
Speaker 1: next level because, as I think we said on the show,
Speaker 1: I feel like just this past year we got more
Speaker 1: introduced to the moves that Naji Harris has, sure and O,
Speaker 1: but like was given that chance to be more of
Speaker 1: an all purpose back exactly fully weaponized in the SARK system. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's got serious moves, and I think he's going to
Speaker 1: be a force at the next level for many years
Speaker 1: to come.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to me, this is all half baked. My theory
Speaker 2: is about NFL and college value. It's what are the
Speaker 2: things that you can do, not the singular thing that
Speaker 2: you can do, Like for Najie Harris, it's what is
Speaker 2: it that you can do as a receiver as well
Speaker 2: as a running back as the NFL heads to a
Speaker 2: more open place offensively, and that you're you're hunting for
Speaker 2: mismatches if you're an offensive coordinator. So if you get
Speaker 2: Najie Harris on an outside linebacker or something, that becomes
Speaker 2: a problem. And so for offensive lineman, sure, it's great
Speaker 2: to be able to, you know, protect the quarterback. It's
Speaker 2: great to be able to move defensive lineman the other direction,
Speaker 2: But like, what are you doing in the open field
Speaker 2: if you're called upon on us? You know, what are
Speaker 2: what are large dudes doing in terms of small dude
Speaker 2: activity and what are smaller dudes during in terms of
Speaker 2: larger dude activity. Are you a safety who can rush
Speaker 2: the quarterback? Are you Derwin James? That to me is
Speaker 2: where like the unicorns, special players are are the guys
Speaker 2: that can do multiple things on an extremely high level.
Speaker 2: That's fascinating. That's why I brought up Isaiah Simmons. That's
Speaker 2: why we bring up Kyle Pitts because you know he
Speaker 2: can be an inline blocker if asked to be, but
Speaker 2: also he's an unguardable threat in the passing game. So
Speaker 2: that is fascinating to see not just who is valued,
Speaker 2: but why they're valued and what can they do at
Speaker 2: three different elite or responsible actions than more so than
Speaker 2: the players are like, yeah, I can, I can run
Speaker 2: off tackle and that's sort of what I do. And
Speaker 2: I think that's that's where we're heading from a football perspective,
Speaker 2: is what is the what is the total bag of
Speaker 2: tricks that I possess. That's fascinating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I also think that Micaeh Parson should go higher
Speaker 1: than what I've seen in a lot of recent mock drafts.
Speaker 1: And again, I know means am I an NFL analyst
Speaker 1: here right. I think he's the best linebacker in the draft,
Speaker 1: and I'd be surprised if he fell to Like, gosh,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at one that's got him at twenty, that
Speaker 1: would stun me if he failed that far.
Speaker 2: I'm looking right now. I mean, it's a pretty fun draft.
Speaker 2: It's interesting to me to see Jalen Wattle and DeVante Smith.
Speaker 2: DeVante Smith as accomplished as he was behind Jalen Waddle,
Speaker 2: who seemed like more of a specialized player, I mean
Speaker 2: an incredible specialized player, but DeVante Smith was just unguardable.
Speaker 2: Now it's the size thing, But I don't know, as
Speaker 2: May's mentioned it, just it seems like he's going to
Speaker 2: succeed and be looked at as an exception because it's
Speaker 2: so difficult when he's that thin. But he was playing
Speaker 2: against SEC corners like he is in a position to
Speaker 2: have the experience to succeed. People love your Notre Dame
Speaker 2: linebacker a w SU Carmoa, Sue Caromo. Yeah, yeah, not
Speaker 2: a huge linebacker, but crazy athletic and productive.
Speaker 1: Had a really good year, really really good year.
Speaker 2: Was all over the place. No, it's it is fascinating,
Speaker 2: especially and he mentioned Christian Darasol like I could not
Speaker 2: I knew the name. I couldn't tell you that he
Speaker 2: was a first round pick versus a third round pick.
Speaker 2: And it's just because Virginia Tech has been difficult to
Speaker 2: watch for a couple of years, so I haven't been
Speaker 2: watching their offensive lineman too closely, so they haven't been
Speaker 2: playing too many huge games. But no, some of those guys,
Speaker 2: like I remember Rashaan Slater a couple of years ago,
Speaker 2: popped the Northwestern tackle who sat out this past year.
Speaker 2: But man, there are some names in here I'm like, oh, man,
Speaker 2: this is you're rolling into the second round, and you
Speaker 2: know we're seeing god whom I seeing the second round
Speaker 2: that I remember just being like Jalen Mayfield was really
Speaker 2: good for Michigan. They're just it's it seems like and
Speaker 2: it's this way every year for me. You're like, man,
Speaker 2: this guy's a third round pick. He was good in college.
Speaker 2: Then I realize they're all good in college.
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's a it's a sneaky good tight end
Speaker 1: draft too. Kyle Pitts of course, is chief among them,
Speaker 1: but Baby Gronk Pat Fryarmuth also in this draft. Brevin
Speaker 1: Jordan from Miami. Also in this draft. You've got a
Speaker 1: whole list of guys who are I think potentially playmakers
Speaker 1: coming out of that tight end spot. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: right in soliverbal at gmail dot com, let us know
Speaker 1: your thoughts on who you like who you don't like,
Speaker 1: because we said, well, we'll do a show on Thursday.
Speaker 1: We'll have some draft angle to it.
Speaker 2: It's the only thing to talk of Notre Dame guys
Speaker 2: in here in the top like three hundred yeah on
Speaker 2: a Notre Dame guys.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Along the offensive line, along that defensive front. Fascinating.
Speaker 1: Building a winner, Dan, that's what they're doing.
Speaker 2: I guess, so hard for me to argue.
Speaker 1: Big Thanks to our guest of honor today, Robert Mays
Speaker 1: from The Athletic. We will be back on Thursday. In
Speaker 1: the meantime, going out to our website sliverbal dot com,
Speaker 1: check out our patreon at verballers dot com, and follow
Speaker 1: along on social media for that Go there, Dan Rubinstein
Speaker 1: for myself, Tie Hildebrandt, We'll talk to you all soon.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, Stay solid, peace
Speaker 4: MHM.