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Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal Hell that for me. I'm

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Speaker 1: a man, I'm forty.

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Speaker 2: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to

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Speaker 2: be happy.

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Speaker 3: You want to be happy for a day? Edo State

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Speaker 3: is that?

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Speaker 1: Woo woom and Dan and tie welcome back to the

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Speaker 1: solid verbal boys, girls, my name is Ty Hildebrandt, joining

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Speaker 1: me as always over there in sunny Chicago, Illinois.

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Speaker 2: Sir, how are you? I'm pretty good. Yesterday was cold,

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Speaker 2: today is warm. We get to have on one of

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Speaker 2: my favorite football people. I don't really even watch the

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Speaker 2: NFL that much. It's just out of a time thing.

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Speaker 2: It's fine. It's a totally entertaining league, but I'm always

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Speaker 2: interested in sort of the behind the scenes stuff and

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Speaker 2: the team building stuff involved with the NFL more so

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Speaker 2: than some of the game watching. And so to have

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Speaker 2: Robert Mays on, somebody I've I've read and listened to

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Speaker 2: for a while and we crossed over with at grant

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Speaker 2: Land briefly. I'm just fall on excited to nerd out

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Speaker 2: over the draft.

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Speaker 1: Robert Mays. He is the host of the Athletic Football

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Speaker 1: Show for the Athletic. He also writes about the NFL

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Speaker 1: for the Athletic previously, as you said of Grantland and

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Speaker 1: Monday Morning Quarterback at dot Com The Ringer. Yes, so

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Speaker 1: Robert's been around and really knows the stuff when it

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Speaker 1: comes to all things pro football. This is one of

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Speaker 1: those hybrid times of year for college football fans because

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of college people who are frankly

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Speaker 1: in the same boat as us. We pay intimate attention

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Speaker 1: to the college game. We're interested, if only tangentially, in

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Speaker 1: the NFL Draft to see where some of our players

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Speaker 1: and some of these names go on the next level.

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Speaker 1: But maybe we don't have that depth of knowledge that

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Speaker 1: someone like Robert does about the NFL, where guys fit,

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Speaker 1: where they don't fit, what kind of trends exist in

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Speaker 1: the NFL, etc. Etc. So we're gonna have him all.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have a nice long interview to talk about

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Speaker 1: all things NFL draft.

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Speaker 2: Is the NFL not like the what is the retired

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Speaker 2: or the older golf level called when you're forty fifty

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Speaker 2: plus or something like that, the Champions Tours, the Champions Tour. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Is the NFL not the Champions Tour of college football?

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Speaker 2: Is that its own like suspected level.

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Speaker 1: They might take exception to that label, but from our standpoint, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: not sure.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just interested NFL wise, since I mean

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Speaker 2: I kind of like the forty nine ers. I don't

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Speaker 2: really watch forty nine ers games, though. I like seeing

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Speaker 2: how the college players I liked for whatever reason, if

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Speaker 2: they're on Oregon, if they're not an organ how they

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Speaker 2: do That's just always interesting to me. And that's just

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Speaker 2: me following from Afar. But yeah, this is that week

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Speaker 2: where we cross over and I used to do a

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Speaker 2: lot of draft stuff at old jobs and seeing how,

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Speaker 2: you know, the teams that drafted the had the most

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Speaker 2: like second and third round picks, and how do that

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Speaker 2: correlate to wins? And also it's all fascinating to me,

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Speaker 2: the value system and the strategy of the draft that

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Speaker 2: to me is fast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I like the presentation of the draft.

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Speaker 2: Remember when we did we nail? What song did we nail?

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Speaker 2: That would be like the commercial bumpers? Was that all

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Speaker 2: of the lights? Yeah, Kanye song.

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Speaker 1: I think I don't remember who got it, but I

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Speaker 1: remember we nailed it. Because there's always like a draft song.

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Speaker 2: Right well ahead of us. I guess Rihanna had lived

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Speaker 2: your life right, Yes, that was a song. That really

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Speaker 2: hit one year. I don't know what. I'm not paying

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Speaker 2: nearly enough attention to pop music to know what will

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Speaker 2: be used as bumpers. That's that's actually your expertise, Ti,

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Speaker 2: it is, so I'm putting you on the spot. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we'll be doing a show. Well, we'll be recording Wednesday

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Speaker 2: for Thursday, so there's no way we could know by then.

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Speaker 2: But this is our draft preview episode. So what is

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Speaker 2: I guess in the last three to eight months something

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Speaker 2: like that? What is the song that, either musically or

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Speaker 2: with the lyrics is going to be featured? Is that

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Speaker 2: bumper song? We'll call it for ESPN? I don't you're

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Speaker 2: on the spot?

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Speaker 1: Well I did. I I did read a little bit

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Speaker 1: about this just in preparation for this show, Okay, And no,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what that song is going to be.

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Speaker 1: I believe that Kings of Leon are going to be performing.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how, Like at where is its Cleveland?

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Speaker 2: Cleveland? Okay, because it was Nashville last show, which would

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Speaker 2: have made sense. I think they live in Nashville, the

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Speaker 2: Kings of Leon.

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Speaker 1: But I believe, if memory serves, they're going to be

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Speaker 1: They're going to be part of the coverage. Somehow that

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Speaker 1: does not quite rise to the level of what we're

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about here, we're talking about like the

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Speaker 1: pop song of the moment that ESPN is going to

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Speaker 1: slap on top of its coverage. Let me think about that.

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Speaker 1: To get back to you, I'm looking at the clothing

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Speaker 1: bit here.

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Speaker 2: Dua lipa would be great to have there. I thought

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Speaker 2: I couldn't tell you what song. I'm ooh hmmm, I'm

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Speaker 2: listening to one right now, but we don't have the

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Speaker 2: rights to play it, but I'm playing it in my

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Speaker 2: my headphones. The levitating song.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a gem.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you Jenny right, it's that. If you

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Speaker 2: want me like, well, that's very You can tie that

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Speaker 2: to the draft.

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Speaker 1: That was the first song that I thought of when

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Speaker 1: you asked me that question.

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Speaker 2: Do a lipa featuring De Baby or Debaby featuring No?

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Speaker 2: It is featuring de Baby, Okay, Just to be clear,

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Speaker 2: leave the door open, Bruno Mars. Does that fit from

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Speaker 2: a sensibility?

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Speaker 1: No, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's a little too sexy, I think now that I

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Speaker 2: listen to it. Man, I don't know any of these artists,

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Speaker 2: which it just means I'm out of touch. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean that they're dumb. What's next, drake m? I mean

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Speaker 2: that that fits thematically. I don't know what the song is.

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Speaker 1: About, right, I need to I need to look a

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Speaker 1: little bit more here.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, we've we've already featured the weekend in the NFL,

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Speaker 2: so it's probably not going to be the weekend.

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Speaker 1: This is my assignment for the Thursday show.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm saying do a lipa. That's my final answer.

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Speaker 1: That's a very good answer. I will stick with that

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Speaker 1: for now. But this is going to be my homework assignment.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what our show is going to be

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Speaker 1: on Thursday. We'll have some draft theme to it because

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Speaker 1: we have something, did you?

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Speaker 2: I will continue to watch the Netflix episode of there's

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Speaker 2: some like behind the track, like how various songs are

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Speaker 2: produced and like the Thorough Story, there's a dual leap

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Speaker 2: episode and it's fantastic. I don't think I saw that

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Speaker 2: on Netflix.

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Speaker 1: I did watch the Maren Morris and z Middle.

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Speaker 2: Now this is like a fall on half hour well

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Speaker 2: produced show that was like a New York Times.

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Speaker 1: That was a six minute clip or whatever. Yeah, right now,

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Speaker 1: I didn't see that one yet.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you should definitely go out of your way. It's

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Speaker 2: really good.

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Speaker 3: That's all. Well.

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Speaker 1: On that note, as Dan said, draft preview show, Robert

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Speaker 1: Mays from The Athletic will have him on momentarily in

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Speaker 1: the interim, if you could go on out to our

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Speaker 1: website solid reble dot com. You could find all the

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Speaker 1: links there if you want to follow along with your

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Speaker 1: podcasting app of choice. Also, if you want to sign

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Speaker 1: up four hour newsletter, which you can also sign up

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Speaker 1: for at newsletter dot soliverble dot com. As we said

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Speaker 1: on the last show, send us your writing samples. If

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Speaker 1: you're interested in being part of the fun. We've had

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Speaker 1: a bunch come in already. Submissions at soliverble dot com

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Speaker 1: is where you can submit some of the stuff that

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Speaker 1: you're proud of. We want to try and add some

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Speaker 1: more written stuff to our newsletter, to our website, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: et cetera as we get a little bit closer to

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Speaker 1: the season. If you're interested, again, submissions at soliverble dot

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Speaker 1: com and last, but certainly not least, verbalers dot com

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Speaker 1: is where you can go. I believe we're going to

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Speaker 1: post the video of the interview for our Patreon subscribers

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Speaker 1: just as a nice little bonus.

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Speaker 2: And Robert Mays will tell you the exact level of

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Speaker 2: fame that is okay with him, and he is seems

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Speaker 2: like he's already reached it. So maybe this will push

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Speaker 2: him over the top to being too famous. But we

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Speaker 2: don't care.

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Speaker 1: We don't care. He gave us permission. It's true to

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Speaker 1: used to video Robert Mays. He's the host of the

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Speaker 1: Athletic Football Show. He's an NFL writer for the Athletic

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Speaker 1: Mister Mays, how are you? It's Draft week? It is

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Speaker 1: Draft week.

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Speaker 4: I don't feel the least been insulted about never being

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Speaker 4: on because I don't really know much about college football

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Speaker 4: I would not be useful to your listeners except in

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Speaker 4: this context.

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Speaker 2: So we technically crossed over at Grantland. I don't think

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Speaker 2: we had anybody else from Grantland on. But now this

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Speaker 2: is this is our perfect time of year together.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely. When how long were you there? It was

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Speaker 3: only first year? Right? Yeah? When?

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Speaker 2: So it was it was the starters, which I guess

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Speaker 2: they were basketball Jones, then men and Blazers and us

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Speaker 2: when they when Bill brought in like outside, it was

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Speaker 2: through Jacoby brought an outside podcast to fill out the

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Speaker 2: grant Land network, and then I took a job at Espanation.

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Speaker 2: They were like, yeah, we can't really have you on anymore.

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Speaker 2: Like that's cool, no worries.

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Speaker 4: I don't remember much of twenty eleven. It's not like

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Speaker 4: I was drunk for most of the year. I actually wasn't.

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Speaker 4: I didn't do anything fun. I just was working constantly

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Speaker 4: and was getting like four hours of sleep at night

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Speaker 4: as we were trying to run the website with about

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Speaker 4: five people. So that time in my life is very

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Speaker 4: much a blow.

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Speaker 3: Will you do it?

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Speaker 2: You were doing the show with Bill Barnwell then, I

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Speaker 2: think or that wasn't.

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Speaker 3: The first year. That was later.

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Speaker 4: So the first year that I was there, I actually

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Speaker 4: did a show with e from Salam that we called

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Speaker 4: The Trenches. I did I should not have had a podcast.

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Speaker 4: It was completely irresponsible for Jacoby to put me on

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Speaker 4: the air. I was twenty three years old. I had

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Speaker 4: no idea what I was doing. I had no experience,

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Speaker 4: and they were just like, do you want a football podcast?

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Speaker 3: I was like, sure, I'll take that.

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Speaker 2: Actually uniquely qualifies you for a podcast. No experience, no

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Speaker 2: idea what you're doing. In twenty eleven. It absolutely did

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Speaker 2: the idea. If you had told me ten years ago

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Speaker 2: that podcasting would be the biggest chunk of my job

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Speaker 2: a decade later, I would have thought something had gone

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Speaker 2: horribly wrong, and I just never would have believed you.

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Speaker 2: But here we are, and it seems to be a

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Speaker 2: sustainable life, which I'll take.

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Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's going to continue. Yeah, all, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Same, because I can't write anymore.

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Speaker 4: I've lost the ability to do it, so fingers still

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Speaker 4: goes up to dry.

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Speaker 3: I'm screwed.

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Speaker 1: So okay, let's talk about the topic at hand here,

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Speaker 1: the NFL Draft. I got to start out with this,

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Speaker 1: Are you an NFL network or ESPN guy? On Draft night?

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Speaker 1: Which covers do you watch?

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Speaker 3: It's a great question.

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Speaker 4: I typically go NFL and Network, especially now that Daniel

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Speaker 4: Jeremias on. I've known DJ for a couple of years

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Speaker 4: and he's a buddy, so I enjoy supporting him whenever possible.

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Speaker 4: But I think this year we'll probably be watching on

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Speaker 4: silent because or I'm mute because we're doing a live

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Speaker 4: show the night of the draft, so we're going to

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Speaker 4: have it out in the background and be reacting to it.

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Speaker 4: So we're gonna have to decide on a feed. I

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Speaker 4: haven't talked to the other guys who are going to

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Speaker 4: be in the room yet. That's going to be something

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Speaker 4: that requires a little bit of teasing out.

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Speaker 1: Are you at all nostalgic for the weird awkwardness that

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Speaker 1: we saw in twenty twenty with the virtual zoom Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: combo draft, whatever you want to call that.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, we were talking about it on our show that's

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Speaker 4: going to run later this week, me and Lindsay Jones.

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Speaker 4: I'm sad that we're not going to have any Cliff

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Speaker 4: Kingsbury sockless with the speed up on a table and

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Speaker 4: that palatial Arizona home.

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Speaker 3: All we have now is the Rams.

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Speaker 1: Who is the coach whose son was like on the toilet?

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Speaker 4: Oh, Mike Vrabel, his son's friends doting extremely weird stuff.

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Speaker 4: Which if you had asked me to rank all of

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Speaker 4: the coaches and I had to pick the one whose

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Speaker 4: kids would be being weird stuff during the broadcast, I

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Speaker 4: probably would have had Mike Vrabel in my top three

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Speaker 4: or so.

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Speaker 2: I like, aren't the Rams do? They did? They rent

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Speaker 2: to house in Malibu? This year?

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Speaker 3: They did? They did? Sponsored by Rocket.

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Speaker 2: Mortgage of course of course, So okay, how much how

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Speaker 2: much college football do you watch for just college football's sake?

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Speaker 2: And how much do you watch through the lens of like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is who's coming, this is where the draft might

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Speaker 2: end up in a few months. What is your actual

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Speaker 2: college football consumption, if at all? So it changed last

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Speaker 2: year obviously for the most part. When I would watch

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Speaker 2: it organically, it would be with friends who went to

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Speaker 2: certain schools. So my buddy played volleyball at Penn State.

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Speaker 2: Who's my best friend. We watched Penn State games together

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Speaker 2: every so often. I have friends it went to Michigan.

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Speaker 2: One of my really good friends played quarterback in Indiana.

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Speaker 2: So I watch a lot of Big ten teams casually

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Speaker 2: on Saturday, and sometimes I'll catch bigger games if something.

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Speaker 2: If it's Alabama's playing whoever, Georgia on a Saturday night

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Speaker 2: at seven pm, I'll do that, But rarely does that

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Speaker 2: happen that often.

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Speaker 3: I'll watch the playoff.

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Speaker 4: Every year, so when it gets a little bit later,

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Speaker 4: I'll watch that just purely for enjoyment's sake. But I

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Speaker 4: will readily admit that I come to the process with

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Speaker 4: relatively less knowledge and drastically less relatively less knowledge of

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Speaker 4: most people, drastically less than I assume the layman would

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Speaker 4: ascribe to me. Considering I do this for a living,

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Speaker 4: I really don't watch that much college football, and for

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Speaker 4: that reason I come to this and I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I'm trying to think of a good example. I didn't

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Speaker 4: know who Christian Darisaw was before I started the draft process.

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Speaker 4: Somebody like that is never something that would come across

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Speaker 4: my plate in the normal rhythms of my life.

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Speaker 2: It's sometimes tough, by the if you cover college football

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Speaker 2: because there are so many teams. All of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: somebody appears in the top fifteen of a mock draft.

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Speaker 2: You're like, oh okay, I mean this team is you know,

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Speaker 2: four and eight or something like that, and so you're

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Speaker 2: not paying that much attention. It's difficult to find those

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Speaker 2: standouts playing for underwhelming teams. So that does happen two

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Speaker 2: people like us as well? I mean, were there people

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Speaker 2: this year where you're like, now that other than I

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Speaker 2: guess Christian Dara saw that you've come into contact with

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Speaker 2: where you're like, is anybody talking about oh yes, they are,

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Speaker 2: oh okay, good like at least it confirms my talent

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Speaker 2: for watching film.

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Speaker 4: You know, there wasn't really anybody like that again, because

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Speaker 4: I think last season was so strange and I probably

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Speaker 4: watched less than I would in a normal year. Somebody

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Speaker 4: I did like when I watched him a little bit

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Speaker 4: because I was watching him play against Penn State in

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Speaker 4: twenty nineteen was Rashad Bateman. Remember watching him in that game.

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Speaker 4: I was like, man, that guy got some route running

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Speaker 4: savvy to him. He puts a little sauce on some

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Speaker 4: of this stuff. I like the way he plays. So

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Speaker 4: that was somebody that I knew I had enjoyed. Other

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Speaker 4: than that, though not really. I mean for most of

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Speaker 4: the other guys, it was the bigger names, and I

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Speaker 4: came to them at the same pace that most people would.

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Speaker 2: Is this a season Do you feel like GM scouts,

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Speaker 2: anybody talking about the sport? Are they looking at last

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Speaker 2: fall as like we can't put an entire amount of

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Speaker 2: weight into what we saw last fall because of the

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Speaker 2: up and down nature of starting and stopping and only

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Speaker 2: playing three games or six games or you know, whatever

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Speaker 2: it is. Is there less weight on last fall or

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Speaker 2: are people just trying to pick it up hard and

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Speaker 2: project like they normally do.

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Speaker 4: It does seem like the opt outs have raised questions.

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Speaker 4: People want to know why certain players opted out, and

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Speaker 4: I think that's more that's what it is more than

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Speaker 4: anything else. I think it's it puts one more box

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Speaker 4: next to a player's name that you have to check

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Speaker 4: what it's trying to figure out the reasons if there

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Speaker 4: was a drop in play, if somebody opted out. I

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Speaker 4: think it's just led to more questions, even if they're

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Speaker 4: not taking it less seriously.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's it's caused.

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Speaker 4: More thoroughness in the process than it might require in

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Speaker 4: a typical year.

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Speaker 1: What players stand out to you when you think of

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Speaker 1: questions like are there any guys that are on your

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Speaker 1: radar where you kind of have that lingering like I

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Speaker 1: need to know more about this guy before I'd feel

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Speaker 1: comfortable with him.

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Speaker 4: I think the medical stuff with some of the guys.

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Speaker 4: Caleb Farley is somebody that when you watch him play,

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Speaker 4: I had somebody with the team last week just say

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Speaker 4: flat out, he's the most talented corner and when you

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Speaker 4: watch him play, I think that's true. You know, he

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Speaker 4: just has such great movement skills and the size is there.

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Speaker 4: It's a rare combination of physical profile and movement skills,

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Speaker 4: but I would be concerned about a back injury, a

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Speaker 4: back injury that's lingering and might require another surgery. I

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Speaker 4: think there are some teams that their doctors have okayed it,

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Speaker 4: but there's a lot of risk involved there. Jalen Phillips

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Speaker 4: is another one. When you watch him, he's got all

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Speaker 4: the physical talent in the world. Obviously, he was one

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Speaker 4: of the best recruits in the country coming out. You

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Speaker 4: see that, you know he's built the right way. You

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Speaker 4: know he uses his hands in a way that I

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Speaker 4: think other guys in his class don't typically. But there's

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Speaker 4: serious questions about his medicals and some other stuff. So

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Speaker 4: I think that's that's part of it, is guys that

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Speaker 4: opted out and guys that have medical lingering, medical concerns.

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Speaker 4: There's just less certainty associated with those guys than it

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Speaker 4: would be in a typical year.

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Speaker 1: To that point. Do you have a favorite I don't know,

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Speaker 1: over the top draft critique, you know, like we've heard about.

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Speaker 1: I think it was Penn Suol Dan. His past blocking

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Speaker 1: maybe isn't where it needs to be. The guy's a mountain.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure he'll be fine in the wal term. Zach Wilson.

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Speaker 1: Somebody said early on that he's got like a spoiled attitude.

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Speaker 1: It's not going to play well if he ends up

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Speaker 1: going to a big city like New York. Have you

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Speaker 1: heard any criticism like that that really stands out to

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Speaker 1: you as being very obvious.

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Speaker 4: I think that a lot of the conversations about the

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Speaker 4: quarterbacks have sent me back to the drawing board and

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Speaker 4: have caused me to rewatch some stuff and just reevaluate

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Speaker 4: what I could possibly be seeing. Can I watch justin Fields.

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Speaker 4: I'm not a quarterback expert. I know what I'm watching.

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Speaker 4: I watch it, but I don't study it. I guess

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Speaker 4: that's the distinction. And when I watch him play, that

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Speaker 4: just looks like the second best guy. To me, it

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Speaker 4: looks like the second most talented guy. And if you

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Speaker 4: look at where he came from and what he is

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Speaker 4: supposed to be as recruit, and it's the accuracy. When

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Speaker 4: we have guys that have true that are outliers physically,

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Speaker 4: that have the frame, the arm, strength, the mobility, all

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Speaker 4: of that stuff, I think the bigger questions about them,

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Speaker 4: for the most part are accuracy, can he place the

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Speaker 4: ball where he wants to? And the idea that Justin

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Speaker 4: Fields may be the most accurate quarterback among these four, and.

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Speaker 3: He has all of those physical tools.

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Speaker 4: I'm just a little confused about what the conversation is

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Speaker 4: and why we're not considering him the second best quarterback.

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Speaker 4: And I've asked people that I think it's because he

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Speaker 4: plays a little bit more methodically. He's not even as

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Speaker 4: quick to run as you might want him to be.

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Speaker 4: So if you're trying to have an offense that runs

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Speaker 4: on time, is he going to be able to do

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Speaker 4: that for you? I understand that concern to a certain extent,

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Speaker 4: but when I watch that guy and everything else that

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Speaker 4: I've heard about him, I just don't understand why we're

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Speaker 4: not having a more real conversation about why he should

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Speaker 4: be going to San Francisco instead of Mac Jones or

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Speaker 4: Tree Lines.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you bring up Mac Jones because that

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Speaker 1: was where I was going to go next. Is he

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Speaker 1: this year's Daniel Jones in that double Jones? Yeah, We're

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Speaker 1: getting to a point where it feels like mac Jones

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Speaker 1: has been talked up to the point where people are

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Speaker 1: willing to accept him as a potential number three overall

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Speaker 1: pick much the way Daniel Jones was talked up as

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Speaker 1: the sixth overall pick and ended up going to the

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Speaker 1: Giants pretty high. Now, from the college football side of things,

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Speaker 1: I think we came to that as Okay, Daniel Jones

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Speaker 1: is a good quarterback at Duke. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: he's a top ten pick. I think we feel similarly

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Speaker 1: about Mac Jones. I'm curious to get your take on him,

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Speaker 1: especially since you kind of came into this process with

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Speaker 1: virgin eyes.

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Speaker 4: I was expecting to like him less than I did

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Speaker 4: when I turned down a few games from last year.

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Speaker 4: I want to watch the Georgia game, and I probably

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Speaker 4: watched two or three other games of him before we

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Speaker 4: did the podcast about him a couple weeks ago, and

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Speaker 4: I expected to just see a guy that wasn't very impressive,

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Speaker 4: that had been overrated for this and this reason. But

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Speaker 4: there are a lot of aspects to his game. Was like,

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Speaker 4: I understand this. I get why you could talk yourself

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Speaker 4: into this. It's the anticipation. He plays very quickly, and

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Speaker 4: I think a lot of that is the way the

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Speaker 4: offense is distilled for him and what they're trying to accomplish,

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Speaker 4: and they have so many answers baked in because they're

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Speaker 4: both schematically better and more talented than every other team

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Speaker 4: they play, so it's easy to look like you're playing

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Speaker 4: quickly because you know who's going to be open before

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Speaker 4: the ball is even snapped. I don't know if that

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Speaker 4: speaks to processing or just the overall structure of the offense,

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Speaker 4: but there are aspects of his game like, all right,

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Speaker 4: he gets the ball out on time, He understands space

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Speaker 4: really well. He understands coverage structure and where he can

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Speaker 4: put the ball in order to give his guys a chance.

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Speaker 4: But those plays often include DeVante Smith having to come

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Speaker 4: back aggressively for the ball or come back over somebody.

439
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 4: So there are qualities that he has that if I

440
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,359
Speaker 4: were an NFL team, especially a guy like Kyle Shanahan

441
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,160
Speaker 4: who just needs the ball to go to the right

442
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,320
Speaker 4: place in his mind every single time, I get where

443
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,439
Speaker 4: you would land on Mac Jones. But I still after

444
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 4: watching him, he's not in the same stratosphere as some

445
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,040
Speaker 4: of these other guys when it comes to physical ability,

446
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,959
Speaker 4: And that's my biggest question is how is he going

447
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 4: to operate in a situation that doesn't involve perfect conditions?

448
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 4: And Joe Burrow is surrounded by really good players at LSU,

449
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,200
Speaker 4: but he could make things happen out of structure. He

450
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,679
Speaker 4: can make guys miss in the pocket. His subtle mobility

451
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 4: was arguably his greatest characteristic coming out of LSU. Mac

452
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 4: Jones doesn't have that subtle mobility. I mean, he can

453
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 4: Tom Brady manipulate the pocket a little bit and work

454
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,720
Speaker 4: in that tiny little space, but he's not making free

455
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 4: rushers miss. And I just think earlier in your career

456
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,359
Speaker 4: that's a huge, huge part of playing the position that

457
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 4: he's lacking.

458
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,439
Speaker 2: Look so much of drafting a quarterback, especially in the

459
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,600
Speaker 2: first round, and I know this is a pain spot

460
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 2: for you as a Bears fan, but is talking yourself

461
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,639
Speaker 2: into a guy up near the top of the draft

462
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,119
Speaker 2: that you believe can be a top tier quarterback? And

463
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 2: you look the last decade, even the half decade that

464
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,680
Speaker 2: has passed. And I don't follow the NFL that closely,

465
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 2: but we're talking about a league littered with guys who

466
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 2: had the potential but for whatever reason, be it injuries, situation,

467
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 2: just didn't live up to potential, didn't work out. Is

468
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 2: there any broad lesson to take from the last five

469
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,880
Speaker 2: years of first round dudes or top fifteen draft pick

470
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 2: quarterbacks that you can say, Okay, now that we've seen

471
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 2: these past five years of tape, this is what we

472
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,880
Speaker 2: can't have in a top ten quarterback or a top

473
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,920
Speaker 2: twenty quarterback. Are there lessons there at all?

474
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 4: It's interesting because I don't know if there is. I

475
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 4: don't even know if there are one or two, because

476
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,120
Speaker 4: there's so many different things you can take from each circumstance.

477
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 4: The Panthers just traded two picks for Sam Darnolds two.

478
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 4: He was arguably the worst quarterback in the NFL statistically

479
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 4: over the last three years. I think Dwayne Haskins was

480
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 4: technically worse than him and maybe a couple other guys,

481
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 4: but he was in there thirty two through thirty five,

482
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 4: and the Panthers thought highly enough of him to trade

483
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 4: two picks to go get him, because in their minds,

484
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 4: that's all situation why he wasn't playing well, lack of protection,

485
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 4: lack of scheme, lack of planmaking talent. So that's one conversation.

486
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,159
Speaker 4: I think that for a while we had learned that

487
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 4: picking the big, strong guy that was a little bit raw,

488
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 4: big strong armed guy that was a little bit raw

489
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 4: had been a mistake. Those guys typically don't become more

490
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 4: accurate in the NFL. Then you watch what happens with

491
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 4: Josh Allen, right, and now it shifts the conversation a

492
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 4: little bit. And I think what's happened with Justin Herbert

493
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 4: has also shifted it a little bit. We're looking at

494
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 4: these guys who are toolsy and saying, all right, is

495
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 4: it worth making the bet on a toolsy quarterback. I

496
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 4: don't think the conversation about Trey Lance sounds the way

497
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 4: it does if we didn't see what just happened last

498
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 4: year with Josh Allen and Justin Herbert. Because he is

499
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 4: a little bit scattershot with accuracy. Sometimes there is something

500
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 4: you have to read into when it comes to projecting

501
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 4: him into a full time role in the NFL. He

502
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 4: some only started seventeen games. But because we've seen toolsy

503
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 4: guys succeed recently, I think it's caused both the media

504
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 4: and teams to say, all right, I'll take the toolsy guy.

505
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 4: Because for a lot of reasons, the rules have changed,

506
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 4: offensive coaching is better in the NFL than it's ever been.

507
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 4: I think the gap between college and pro football has

508
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 4: shrunk a little bit that it's easier to project guys

509
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 4: if you can do things they're comfortable with for a

510
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 4: lot of different reasons. I think that that is worth making.

511
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 4: But I don't think we would have said that even

512
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 4: two years ago.

513
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: Do do people overreact to possible exceptions to the rule?

514
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 4: Then?

515
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 2: Is Josh Allen an exception to the rule?

516
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 4: Right?

517
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 2: It's lower level competition as as good as Wyoming football

518
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 2: has been to whatever you believe it is. I mean,

519
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 2: North Dakota State is not playing top tier teams, so

520
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 2: we're talking about toolsy against lower level competition, whereas Justin

521
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 2: Herbert obviously, I mean, you can make Pack twelve jokes,

522
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 2: but he was playing against higher level competition. He was

523
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 2: playing against the Auburn defense a year and a half ago.

524
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 2: What is that an element to things? And you mentioned

525
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 2: the number of games guys have started, Mitch Trubisky started

526
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 2: a season in college. You look at I mean, there

527
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: are four year guys who work out. There are four

528
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 2: of you guys who don't work out. Is it just

529
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 2: see a GM seeing an example of somebody who worked out,

530
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: and they're like, well, could be our guy too.

531
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 3: I think so.

532
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 4: I think people absolutely talk themselves into the exception too.

533
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 4: Often and with Josh Allen. You know, I learned this

534
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 4: in the twenty nineteen season. I went to Buffalo and

535
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 4: I spent a couple of days there and I talked

536
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 4: to him for a while. When you talk to him

537
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 4: and the people around him and the coaching staff there

538
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 4: in the front office there, he has a real desire

539
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 4: to get better. He's also very smart. You know, when

540
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 4: you watched him play in college, I think it would

541
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 4: have been easy to see that style of play and

542
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 4: think he's this big, oafish guy, and in reality, that's

543
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 4: not true at all. And I think that his intellect

544
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 4: and his desire to get better played a huge role

545
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 4: in the strides that he made. So if you look

546
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 4: at a guy and just say that's a tools he prospect,

547
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 4: maybe he can beat Josh Allen. I think you're reading

548
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 4: into the wrong things. The thing about that, though, is

549
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 4: that everything I've heard about Trey Lance is he is

550
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 4: that type of person where he is cerebral, he does

551
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 4: approach it the right way, and there are these glowing reviews.

552
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 4: If those two pieces are working in concert, maybe he

553
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 4: can be another guy that takes a similar step that

554
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 4: Josh Allen did. But those other intangible factors I think

555
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 4: have to be part of that conversation.

556
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: Some of the other guys that come to mind when

557
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,479
Speaker 1: you talk about exception to the rule or guys that

558
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: broke the mold. Obviously, Lamar Jackson's had a lot of success.

559
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: Patrick Mahomes had a lot of success in college. I

560
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: don't know if anyone projected this kind of success moving

561
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: forward in the NFL. Who else comes to mind for

562
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: guys that GMS maybe have in the back of their

563
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: mind is like, maybe we could get the next blank.

564
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 4: Well, I think that DeVante Smith is going to be

565
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 4: an exception conversation here over the next week, because if

566
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 4: you look at the history of guys with that body

567
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 4: type and that weight, it's not good. And there are

568
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 4: mostly shorter guys. So he's even taller and leaner than

569
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 4: some of the other players who weigh less than one

570
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 4: hundred and seventy pounds. If he was drafted in a

571
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 4: top fifteen, for example, and succeeded, there are very few

572
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 4: players that size who've ever been drafted at that level,

573
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 4: and very fewer even still that have gone on to

574
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 4: be successful. There are so many it's always funny the

575
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 4: players that we get here mentioned over and over again,

576
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 4: but maybe he can be this and it's always that

577
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 4: exception guy Josh Allen to be the quarterbacks. DeShawn Jackson

578
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 4: is the undersized receiver. Every single time there's a five

579
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 4: to ten guy who weigh one hundred and sixty eight

580
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 4: pounds and runs a four to three eight, it's like, oh,

581
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 4: he can just be to Shawn Jackson's there's one to

582
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 4: Shawn Jackson, and I think there are a lot of

583
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 4: mistakes made if you're trying to chase that exception. But

584
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 4: I think he'll be an example and in just on

585
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 4: a broader level this year, this is the short armed

586
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 4: tackle group that it is a prevailing trait among all

587
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 4: of these guys because when we talk about Penney Seool,

588
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 4: I love Penney School. I think he has a rare

589
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 4: combination of frame and movement for somebody at that position,

590
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 4: but he's not a generational the word that gets thrown

591
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 4: all the way around all the time. He's not a

592
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 4: generational process because he doesn't check all of the typical boxes.

593
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 4: He has thirty three inch arms that's small for a tackle,

594
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 4: and a lot of guys in this class fall into

595
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 4: that category. Rashan Slater's arms are short. Brady Christensen has

596
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 4: really short arms. Liam Eichenberg has really short arms. So

597
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 4: what are you going to do with those guys? And

598
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 4: there are success stories of that position. Jake Matthews is

599
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 4: a thirty three and a half guy, Mitchell Schwartz is

600
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 4: a thirty three and a half guy. Lyle Collins is

601
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 4: actually shaped a lot like Penney suol Is. But again,

602
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 4: you're talking yourself into exceptions, and I think it happens

603
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 4: every year at a lot of positions, but this year

604
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 4: it's concentrated in a couple specific areas.

605
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: One of the other things that I know Dan and

606
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 1: I talked about, you mentioned Devonte Smith. I just want

607
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: to come back to that for a second. It seems like,

608
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: broadly speaking, at least from our vantage point, it's a

609
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: pretty loaded wide receiver class. Maybe that's a bit overshadowed

610
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: by the fact that so much talk, at least in

611
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: the top ten has been around quarterbacks and how are

612
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: we gonna have five quarterbacks taken in the top ten,

613
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: But at least from our vantage point and about yours, Robert,

614
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: it feels like a really, really truly loaded wide receiver cord.

615
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 4: It's interesting because last year was build the same way,

616
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 4: and I would say the number of guys is probably

617
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 4: similar last year in this year, but they're shaped much different.

618
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 3: This year.

619
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 4: You have a lot of guys who are in that

620
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 4: five eight to five eleven range. And I'll keep going

621
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 4: back to arm length. That sound like a weird.

622
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 3: Scout, No good.

623
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 4: My buddy Nat Tice, who does the show with me,

624
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 4: tweeted something I can't remember the exact details of it,

625
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 4: but wide receivers with less than short arms shorter than

626
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 4: thirty two inches. There's only been like twenty five of

627
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 4: them or something in the past decade. I think half

628
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 4: of them are coming out this year. So just I

629
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 4: think the shape of playmakers is changing and you're seeing

630
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 4: that manifest in this class. So last year you could

631
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 4: get a Justin Jefferson or a true prototypical outside sort

632
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 4: of receiver at twenty five and that guy could be

633
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 4: an All Pro. This year, there are a lot of

634
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 4: guys that are they slot guys. Is Elijah Moore Kenny?

635
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 4: Can he play outside? What is Rondeo Moore? The idea

636
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 4: that Kadarius Tony is billed as a bigger guy compared

637
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 4: to some of the other people in this class, I

638
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 4: think says a lot, so I think it beyond the

639
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 4: depth of it this year. I think it speaks to

640
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 4: how many different types of players are being put in

641
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 4: positions to succeed at receiver now compared to would have

642
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 4: been ten years ago. And you can understand why that's happening.

643
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 4: The idea of space as currency in football has changed

644
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 4: a lot.

645
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 3: I think in.

646
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 4: College it had been that way for a while, but

647
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 4: I think in the NFL we're kind of coming to

648
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 4: that place where we have a lot more three or

649
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 4: four wide sets. You have a guy that's playing in

650
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 4: the slot consistently. I mean eleven personnel and three receiver

651
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 4: sets in the NFL only became the prevailing personnel group

652
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 4: in the league less than a decade ago, so the

653
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 4: types of players and body types haven't necessarily caught up

654
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 4: to the way the sport currently looks, and I think

655
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 4: that we're seeing a lot of that with the types

656
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 4: of receivers that are available in this group.

657
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: I'm glad you mentioned personnel groupings because if you look

658
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 2: across the sport, and this is the stuff that actually

659
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 2: really interests me about the NFL when I do have

660
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: time to watch, which isn't often is certain coaches, especially

661
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 2: younger guys, are able to do so much out of

662
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 2: single personnel groups. Right, it's the forty nine ers playing

663
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 2: what twenty one personnel and using an athletic fullback, Or

664
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 2: it's the Packers and the Rams using twelve personnel and

665
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: utilizing tight ends, or the Saints not even using I

666
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: believe it's the Saints not even using a tight end

667
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 2: a lot. What is it about these younger minds at

668
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: coach and coordinator that will sort of affect where where

669
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: we value certain guys. Be it the shorter receivers, be

670
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: it Hbax, be it Kadarius Tony who can move all

671
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: over the place. How is value changing?

672
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 4: It's interesting because I think with McVeigh and the Rams

673
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 4: it gets the opposite. They were eleven personnel right ninety

674
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 4: seven percent of the time in his first year because

675
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 4: it's what worked, and I think that is to me,

676
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 4: the more interesting part of all of this is that

677
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 4: fewer coaches are fighting what's working. They're more open minded

678
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,719
Speaker 4: about how to approach this kind of stuff. I think

679
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 4: the Titans are a really good example. So the Titans

680
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 4: under MATTL. Fleuor were a Shanahan Kubiak tinged offense a

681
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 4: lot of outside zone play action. As they got deeper

682
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 4: into their time with Arthur Smith, who took over for

683
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 4: Matt with Fluor, they started using more gap running schemes,

684
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 4: more of a vertical power play action game, and less

685
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 4: of the boot game. So I think there are just

686
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 4: coaches all around the league who are saying, what's working.

687
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 4: How do I filter these ideas through my players and

688
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 4: not fight uphill against the things that are efficient, And

689
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 4: one way to do that, I think is creating complexity

690
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 4: via personnel groups. I think if you're lining up in

691
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 4: eleven personnel seventy five percent of the time and that's

692
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 4: how you're living, you're probably doing yourself a disservice. You

693
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 4: probably don't have as deep, at as varied a group

694
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 4: of pass catchers and skill position players as you probably want.

695
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 4: You know, talking about the Bengals and what they need

696
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 4: to do them going with Jamar Chase at five I

697
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 4: think makes a lot of sense because they I think

698
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 4: led the league in eleven personnel last year. They have

699
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 4: through receivers on the field. At the same time, I

700
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 4: wouldn't want to live that way In an ideal world,

701
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 4: I would want to have more options than that, and

702
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 4: a way to create complexity, even if it's not really

703
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 4: that much more complex.

704
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 2: Something you mentioned in going through some smaller receivers is

705
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 2: what is Rondale Moore. It's a fantastic question, and it's

706
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 2: a question that sort of pops up more and more.

707
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: This year we have Kyle Pitts, right who is a

708
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: tight end who can play like receiver and he's not

709
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: a tweeter because some lucky team is going to figure

710
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:42,959
Speaker 2: out how to weaponize Kyle Pitts. Last year we had

711
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: Isaiah Simmons. What is Isaiah Simmons? You know, he's a safety,

712
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 2: He's a linebacker. He can line up, you know, and

713
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 2: rush the quarterback if need be. Are more and more

714
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 2: coaches and coordinators on either side of the ball getting

715
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: better at figuring out what a player is instead of

716
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 2: what a player isn't.

717
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 4: Yes, I think, I think absolutely they are. Ty brought

718
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 4: up to DK Metcalf. I think it's a perfect example.

719
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 4: One of the questions about DK Metcalf coming in was, well.

720
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 3: What does he get? What can he do? We haven't

721
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 3: seen him do many things.

722
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 4: He lined up on the left side of the formation

723
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 4: at ole Miss and ran very fast in a straight

724
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 4: line all the time. That's what he did. And instead

725
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 4: of saying, well, what else can he do, the Seahawks

726
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 4: picked him and said let's just have him do that

727
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 4: for a while. And it worked. And that's what you

728
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,479
Speaker 4: saw him do. I mean as a freshman, as a rookie.

729
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 4: He lined up in one spot and he ran go

730
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 4: routes and slants. That's it, and it worked because that's

731
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 4: what he's comfortable doing. His teammate from ole Miss, AJ Brown,

732
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 4: I think, is another great example. AJ Brown is fantastic

733
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 4: with the ball in his hands. He is a monster.

734
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 4: He is so big, he's so strong, such a smooth

735
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 4: mover that Titans said, okay, this is what you do. Well,

736
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 4: we're gonna build in yack opportunity after yack opportunity into

737
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 4: the structure of the offense until you get your footing

738
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 4: and you get a comfort level with some other aspects

739
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 4: of what we want to do. And I think that's

740
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 4: happening more and more often. And a guy like Rondeo Moore,

741
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 4: there's a version of him that fits in the NFL. Now,

742
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,919
Speaker 4: if you go look at what the Rams have done,

743
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 4: for example, with all of the jet motion that they

744
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 4: use and the eye candy that they use. The Chiefs

745
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 4: are another good example of that. The one I'm picturing

746
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 4: is green Bay. Green Bay runs a similar The bones

747
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 4: of their offense are similar to what the Rams want

748
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 4: to do. They come from the same tree, but they

749
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 4: don't have that eye candy deception element to what they

750
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 4: are because they don't have that small space receiver. They

751
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 4: had to use Tyler Irvin in that role, who's a

752
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 4: hybrid returner. They had to use Aaron Jones in that

753
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 4: role even though he's a running back. A guy like

754
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 4: Rondel Moore fits perfectly into that idea, And that archetype

755
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 4: of player didn't exist in the NFL ten years ago.

756
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 4: Even if you had a slot guy, it was a

757
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 4: Wes Welker type. There wasn't as much motion. You didn't

758
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 4: need as much explosiveness from that type of player. And

759
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 4: I think that now a guy like that is more

760
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 4: valuable in the league than he ever would have been before.

761
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 2: So basically, if you could reboot Taevon Austin to twenty

762
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 2: twenty one, there's a better chance that he could find

763
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 2: a niche in the league.

764
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 4: Yes, but I also think that I don't know if

765
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 4: it would have been a bigger niche than he had before.

766
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 4: I think the problem with tavan Austin is not his usefulness.

767
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 4: I think it's where he was drafted. If Tavon Austin

768
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 4: was a fourth round pick, we wouldn't look at Tavon

769
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,919
Speaker 4: Austin's career and say that's a disappointment. And I think

770
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 4: that's an aspect of drafting and value that comes up

771
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 4: over and over again. For me, I would never take

772
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 4: the small, fast guy high. I just wouldn't do it

773
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 4: because you can find that guy elsewhere. Speed is available.

774
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 4: Can Jalen Giten is a perfect example to me. Jalen Geiiten,

775
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 4: I think was available after cutdown Day and signed with

776
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 4: the Chargers last year, and he runs a four to three.

777
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 4: He gives you a vertical aspect to your offense. You

778
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 4: don't need to draft him eleventh overall like the Raiders

779
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 4: did with Henry Ruggs. That's not necess I feel like

780
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 4: teams are looking at what it's happening with Tyreek Hill

781
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 4: and said, speed is what we're missing. Tyreek Hill isn't

782
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 4: good because he's fast. Tyreek Hill is good because he's

783
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,439
Speaker 4: fast and he is able to weaponize that speed because

784
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 4: he doesn't have to slow down because he's incredibly strong. Again,

785
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 4: he's one of those guys that I think leads to

786
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 4: evaluation mistakes among other teams because they're looking for the

787
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 4: wrong things.

788
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: So we haven't mentioned his name yet. Trevor Lawrence. Trevor

789
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 1: Lawrence comes into the league presumably first overall pick. He's

790
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: going to go to the Jacksonville Jaguars. He's going to

791
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: have a new coach, a former college coach in Urban Meyer.

792
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: What does that situation look like for a guy like

793
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: a Trevor Lawrence, who many on the college side have

794
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: viewed for a long time, even before he was playing

795
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 1: for Clemson as a generational type talent. Can he succeed

796
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: at the next level quickly?

797
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 3: I think so.

798
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 4: I do believe that he can, because if you look

799
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 4: at what the Jaguars have done, I actually think it's

800
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 4: a really fascinating way to do a teardown. I am

801
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 4: a fan of pressing the reset button hard. I think

802
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 4: that it's a way to get it out of these

803
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 4: really murky middle ground situations. The team find teams find

804
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 4: themselves in what the Dolphins did at what the right

805
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 4: after the Browns did it, I think is exactly how

806
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 4: you should approach that sort of thing. It's why I

807
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 4: get frustrated with the Bears and them trying to tinker

808
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 4: with this model that clearly isn't working. The Jags have

809
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 4: done that. They hit the reset button in pretty much

810
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 4: every conceivable way. They traded Khalais Campbell, they traded Yanni Knakway,

811
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 4: they traded Jay and Ramsey. That one we can discuss,

812
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 4: but they I think that by purging the roster of

813
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 4: expensive talent starting over, you've given yourself a blank slate.

814
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 4: The one area where they did not do that, where

815
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 4: they did not purge the roster of second contract and

816
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 4: third contract veterans was the offensive line. They brought back

817
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 4: Cam Robinson on the franchise tag to play left tackle

818
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 4: for them this year. Jawan Taylor s so their right tackle,

819
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 4: so off aj Can, Brandon Linder, Andrew Norwell I believe

820
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 4: is still there. Rattling off starting offensive lines by hard

821
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 4: is something at the copy. But they have five starting

822
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 4: caliber line and they brought back to their left tackle

823
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 4: in the tag, and I think at first glance, you

824
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 4: look at that and you'd say, why is a team

825
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 4: drafting first overall, using the franchise tag on someone. That's

826
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 4: something you do to keep your roster together when you

827
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 4: think you're close. But the idea of saying our offensive

828
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 4: line is going to be intact when we get this

829
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 4: once every ten year sort of guy in here because

830
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 4: we can't ruin him. I actually like that as a

831
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 4: way to allocate your resources. So if the line is

832
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 4: and I think sometimes it's overstated how bad these situations are,

833
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 4: but it's not as if we have to dig back

834
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 4: into deep history to find a number one overall pick

835
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 4: with a bad offensive line. It happened last year. That's

836
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 4: very recent. And I think that Lawrence's situation with the protection,

837
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 4: which is where I'd start in any of these conversations,

838
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 4: is better than it was with Joe Burrow last year.

839
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 4: The weapons is an interesting conversation because they have Leviska Chanalt,

840
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 4: who they drafted last year I believe in the second round.

841
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 4: Interesting talent. I mean, obviously he had was one of

842
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 4: those super charged yack guys coming into the NFL. I'll

843
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 4: be curious to see what he looks like in this offense.

844
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 4: But he's young. They have Marvin Jones they brought in

845
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 4: as a one year free agent rental. I think he's

846
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 4: the perfect sort of guy you have as an outside option.

847
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 4: And then DJ Shark is in the last year of

848
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 4: his contract. They have another first round pick and an

849
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 4: extra second round pick because Chark is going to the

850
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 4: last year of his deal. He wasn't picked by this regime.

851
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 4: He could absolutely see them trying to draft a pass

852
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 4: catcher high up in this draft to add a little

853
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 4: juice to that group. If they go get an Elijah

854
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 4: Moore or somebody like that, that's a I like that.

855
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 4: That is a group you can work with. In the

856
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 4: personnel side. On the coaching staff side, Daryl Bevell is

857
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 4: their offensive coordinator. Daryl Bevell is as NFL establishment as

858
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 4: you can possibly get. Everyone's team has had. Daryl Bevell

859
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 4: is their office at that point, and he's not an

860
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 4: exciting name, but if you look at the results, it's

861
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 4: been pretty solid. You know, they were too run heavy

862
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 4: in Seattle. How much of that was him and how

863
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 4: much of that was Pete Carroll at the end, It's

864
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 4: hard to say, but they were I believe seventh in

865
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 4: EPA per drop back over the from twenty twelve through

866
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen when he was there with Russell Wilson. That

867
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 4: is encouraging to me. He was very good with Matthew

868
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 4: Stafford in twenty nineteen for the first half of the season,

869
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 4: that play action, aggressive down the field approach, which I

870
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 4: think will work out well with Trevor Lawrence. And the

871
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 4: other thing that not a lot of people have talked

872
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 4: about but I find interesting, is that he was double

873
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 4: was with Russell Wilson at the beginning in Seattle when

874
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 4: Russell Wilson was kind of the cog in this machine

875
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 4: that had a great defense in a great running game.

876
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 4: And I don't think Trevor Lawrence should ever be that.

877
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 4: But I do like having an offensive coordinator that understands

878
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 4: how to insulate his quarterback if necessary, how to take

879
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 4: something off of Lawrence's plate, if they get to a

880
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 4: place where he's getting hit way too much, something like that,

881
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 4: like we need to drop back a little bit less.

882
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 4: So I just think the pieces are in place. And

883
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 4: that's before we even mention what influence Urban Meyer is

884
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 4: going to have. What does this look like, So all

885
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 4: of the factors combined, I'll say this, The offensive line

886
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 4: is not great, the weapons aren't great. We have not

887
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 4: total certainty about what the schematic circumstances are going to

888
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 4: look like. But we have seen recent examples where it's

889
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 4: been much much worse with much lesser quarterbacks than Trevor Lawrence.

890
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 1: You bring up Urban in college obviously a god. How

891
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 1: do NFL people feel about a Ramayer?

892
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 4: I think it's curiosity more than anything else. You know, what,

893
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 4: how do you build a program at this level? What

894
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 4: types of players do you look for? What does he

895
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 4: look like in building a roster when he can't have

896
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 4: anybody that he wants. You know, when somebody that you

897
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 4: pick in the third round has to start for you

898
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 4: because you have no defensive talent, how frustrating is it

899
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 4: going to be when that guy is talent efficient in

900
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 4: ways that you're not typically used to dealing with Schematically?

901
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 4: What does it look like? I mean, obviously Urban Meyer

902
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 4: ushered in an entire new era of what offensive football

903
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,919
Speaker 4: looks like at the college level. What does it look

904
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 4: like in the NFL? How does he mesh with? Again,

905
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 4: somebody who is extremely traditional in Daryl Bevell and Brian

906
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 4: Schottenheimer is their passing game coordinator. It's hard to have

907
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 4: a more establishment last name in the NFL than that,

908
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 4: So what does it end up looking like?

909
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 3: That? To me is the overarching feeling here is I

910
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 3: want to see what it is.

911
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 4: I don't know how to feel about it yet, but

912
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 4: I know I want to watch what it looks like

913
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 4: from day one.

914
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 2: When gms and scouts or whoever is making decisions in

915
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: the front office look back to college, do they look

916
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: in the way I guess Bill Belichick has done. Like

917
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 2: Bill Belichick will listen to Nick Saban, perhaps more than

918
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: other college coaches, and I guess draft Rutgers players. That's

919
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: a thing that was there for a little bit. But

920
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 2: is there some sort of benefit of the doubt, especially

921
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: with coaches who used to coach a position group. Nick

922
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 2: Saban used to coach defensive backs. Kirk Farens as your

923
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: beloved Marshallyanda, We'll tell you he was an offensive line coach.

924
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 2: He was an offensive line coach in the NFL. Dabosweeney

925
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: coached receivers before he was the head coach at Clemson,

926
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 2: and Clemson receivers have done pretty well in the NFL.

927
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 2: Is that something that gms and scouts have in the

928
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 2: back of their mind as they're building their boards. Just

929
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 2: the background of the college head coaches positionally that Okay,

930
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: they can identify, they can develop this guy's going to

931
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 2: be ready for the NFL because this is their specific

932
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 2: head coach and that is his specialty.

933
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 3: Oh.

934
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 4: I don't know if the GMS are necessarily thinking that,

935
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 4: but I absolutely think if I were the owner and

936
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 4: I were looking for a slightly out of the box

937
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 4: hire and somebody who and I go back and forth

938
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 4: on this, I typically land when if I were hiring

939
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 4: a head coach, yeah, and I were building my qualifications,

940
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 4: I would start with a list of play calling offensive

941
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 4: head coaches. That's where I would start, because I just

942
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 4: think it's the easiest way to sustain success. You look

943
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 4: at what happened with the Falcons when Kyle Shanahan left

944
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 4: and how quickly they fell off. What's going to happen

945
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 4: now that Arthur Smith is no longer in Tennessee after

946
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 4: he had so much success. We don't ask those questions

947
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 4: about Andy Reid and Sean Payton or even the Patriots

948
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 4: with Josh McDaniels to a certain extent, they're there all

949
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 4: the time.

950
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 3: So that's where I would start. But if you weren't

951
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 3: one of those people.

952
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 4: If you were a little bit more open mind about

953
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 4: the types of coaches you'd want to run your program.

954
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 4: I think looking at a college coach and saying that

955
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 4: person has managed a roster, he's thought about where holes

956
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 4: can be, he's thought about how position groups fit together,

957
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 4: all of that stuff. I think there's value in that.

958
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 4: I think there's value in being able to look at

959
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 4: a coach who has big picture experience and how that

960
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,919
Speaker 4: can translate to having personnel control in the NFL, which

961
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 4: he most likely does. I don't know what the actual

962
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 4: details of it are, but he's in charge there, and

963
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 4: I think that you can absolutely talk yourself into his

964
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 4: experience building rosters at Ohio State informing what he'd be

965
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 4: able to do in Jacksonville.

966
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 2: Are there systems on either side of the ball that

967
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 2: that scare gms that's just like, Okay, this team ran

968
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: this three four, but I don't like what they did

969
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 2: with gaps. I don't like the coverage is that they played.

970
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: Are there specific systems in the way that like, obviously,

971
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 2: the spread was something that NFL teams were wary of

972
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 2: early on. Whatever spread means it's now obviously means like

973
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 2: thirty different things. But other systems to this day where

974
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 2: you're just like, I don't trust that these guys aren't

975
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 2: taught to do this on either side of the ball.

976
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 4: I feel like there's not as much hesitancy or there's

977
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 4: not as much reticence among coaches now as there was

978
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 4: five to ten years ago, because the same problems still exists.

979
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 4: You know, the spread offense hasn't gone away. There's the

980
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 4: RPOs and the way that the screen game works. When

981
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 4: you watch Trevor Lawrence, mean, it's a Mickey Mouse offense

982
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 4: compared to what he would run in the NFL.

983
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 3: I mean, it's.

984
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 4: Incredibly efficient, but a lot of it is baked into

985
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 4: the structure in terms of what he's doing.

986
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 3: And I don't think that is as.

987
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 4: Much of a concern as it used to be because

988
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 4: those two things are converging. There's more RPOs in the

989
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 4: NFL than there was five to ten years ago. I

990
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 4: think NFL teams are willing to steal from college wholesale

991
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 4: in a way they weren't ten years ago, So that

992
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 4: concerned to me, is a little less important. Same goes

993
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 4: for wide receivers. I remember Kys Shanahan talking about this

994
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 4: a couple of years ago in regard to Deebo Samuel

995
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 4: where he was saying that you don't see as many

996
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 4: receivers run traditional routes in college for a few different reasons.

997
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 4: It's not the structure of the offense. They're not playing

998
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 4: against a lot of pressman coverage, if they're not playing

999
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 4: in the SEC, all that other stuff. But instead of

1000
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 4: saying this is a problem because I can't evaluate that person,

1001
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 4: he's saying I'm gonna do what works for him. I'm

1002
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 4: gonna get the ball in his hands. I'm gonna let

1003
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 4: them play in space. So that's kind of what I

1004
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 4: was saying before about offensive coaches evolving in the league.

1005
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 4: I think there are fewer excuses and fewer instances of

1006
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 4: Bill Walsh did it this way, so that's how we're

1007
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 4: going to do it. I think those walls have fallen

1008
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,959
Speaker 4: down a little bit defensively, I think it's a little

1009
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 4: bit more complicated. I think that's where some bigger gaps

1010
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 4: are starting to exist, especially when you're not dealing with

1011
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,959
Speaker 4: some of the teams that have high quality quarterback cornerback talent.

1012
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 3: If you look at what Ohio State.

1013
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 4: Had been doing when Okuda was there and some of

1014
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 4: those other guys, what Alabama can do on a play

1015
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 4: to play basis Georgia, there's a press man, they're doing

1016
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 4: things and you're seeing them in man coverage. You can

1017
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 4: project that into the NFL. If you're looking at some

1018
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 4: of these teams in the Big Twelve or other places

1019
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 4: where it's quarters every play and that's all you see

1020
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 4: them do, it's really hard to project defensive backs out

1021
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 4: of that system in terms of what you expect from them.

1022
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,760
Speaker 4: I mean, if you're watching a corner turn in quarters

1023
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 4: every single play, you don't know what he looks like

1024
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 4: in man coverage for the most part. So I think

1025
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 4: that gap is interesting, But also I think that stuff

1026
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 4: is starting to converge a little bit. The idea that

1027
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 4: Carl Scott, who was one of the people who oversaw

1028
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 4: the secondary in Alabama for so many years and the

1029
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 4: ways that they would play those specific coverages that they

1030
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 4: measured in, is now on the staff with the Vikings.

1031
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 4: I think that's really interesting. I think that's even another

1032
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 4: example of the two games kind of coming to get

1033
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,959
Speaker 4: other in ways they weren't before. Brandon Staley is another

1034
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 4: good one. He did a ton of college specific stuff,

1035
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 4: especially with fronts with the Chargers last year. So as

1036
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 4: coaches get younger as coach, as they get more open minded,

1037
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 4: I think we're gonna see some of this stuff filter

1038
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 4: both ways.

1039
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 2: Are there guys that you don't anticipate being taken high

1040
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 2: at all this year where you just you've caught them,

1041
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 2: even caught them watching tape on other guys where you've said,

1042
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 2: I don't know, I think this guy's just gonna be good.

1043
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 2: He might be projected as like a fifth round pick.

1044
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 2: I guess this is your football guy, right, capital F,

1045
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 2: capitol G football guy. Are there guys this year Whe're

1046
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: just like, Yeah, I think this guy's gonna be in

1047
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:34,959
Speaker 2: the league for six years.

1048
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 4: Those I haven't digging that deep into the pool of players,

1049
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 4: if I'm being honest. I mean I've watched the top

1050
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 4: ten or at top like eight to ten at most positions.

1051
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,359
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think of somebody that I've stumbled onto that, Like,

1052
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 4: there are guys that I've watched a little bit lower

1053
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 4: at certain spots that I think are intriguing. Peyton Turner

1054
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 4: from Houston is an edge rusher that I watch him.

1055
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 4: I'm like, Oh, that guy, I don't know. I like

1056
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 4: what he's He's high cut, and the competition isn't very good.

1057
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 4: I don't really know what to make of him, but

1058
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 4: he's somebody that jumped out to me a little bit.

1059
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:08,479
Speaker 4: But other than that, I mean, most of the guys

1060
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 4: I've watched are in the top one hundred or so,

1061
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 4: so I'm not the best person to ask about that.

1062
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 2: Do you have any theories like you did about Justin

1063
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 2: Herbert that aren't necessarily grounded in specific data? But you're

1064
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 2: just like, look, this is how I feel about this

1065
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 2: kind of player, this is how I feel about this position.

1066
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 2: I don't care that I don't have a ton of

1067
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 2: supporting proof. Maybe you did for Justin Herbert and he

1068
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,280
Speaker 2: was the exception. What are your latest theories about anything

1069
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 2: with the draft?

1070
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 3: This one is rooted in a little bit of data.

1071
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 4: One of the conversations I've had a lot over the

1072
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 4: last month, and I've written about it, We've talked about

1073
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 4: on our show A Bunch is what the Bengal should

1074
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 4: do at five and all of the kind of points

1075
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 4: in forming that discussion. So if you're the Bengals and

1076
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 4: you could pick between Penny Suel and Jamar Chase, you

1077
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 4: I don't think that whatever direction you go in that

1078
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 4: whoever you pick among those two, you're not just picking

1079
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 4: one of those players. You're sending a message about what

1080
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 4: you value in picking one of those players. And I

1081
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,839
Speaker 4: understand if they went with Chase, if they assigned Riley

1082
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 4: Reef in free agency, they have two starting caliber tackles.

1083
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,760
Speaker 4: You probably find an interior alignment in the second round.

1084
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 4: And if you think Jamar Chase is a rare talent,

1085
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 4: if you want to pick him at five, go crazy.

1086
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,399
Speaker 4: He feels in need all that stuff. But I think

1087
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 4: it's led to conversations about scarcity and about where we

1088
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 4: find these players, because in my mind, when I wrote

1089
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 4: about it and have thought about it, I just see

1090
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 4: things you can't get elsewhere. And I've just watched what's

1091
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 4: happened at the receiver position, especially we talked about DK

1092
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,399
Speaker 4: Metcalfe and A. J. Brown already where you can find

1093
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 4: star level receivers in throughout the league. And then I

1094
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 4: think about tackles. It's harder. It's much much harder to

1095
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 4: find high quality tackles beyond the first round, and even

1096
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 4: past that, it's hard to find starting quality tackles in

1097
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 4: free agency. Riley Reef was the best offensive tackle in

1098
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 4: free agency this year that's not very good. There's so

1099
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 4: many receivers now, whether it's the depth of certain draft

1100
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:04,839
Speaker 4: classes or guys that you can find in the free

1101
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 4: agent market. I just think it's harder to find a

1102
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 4: really good receiver or really good offensive tackle than it

1103
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 4: is to find a really good receiver. That, though, leads

1104
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 4: to a conversation and some questions about do you need

1105
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 4: high quality offensive tackles? Where does positional value fit into this?

1106
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 4: So everything about the Bengals and what they're thinking about

1107
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 4: and the debates that are happening in that building has

1108
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 4: just led me down so many different paths over the

1109
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 4: last month. I've thought more about the Bengals than I

1110
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 4: ever thought I would in the lead up to any

1111
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 4: sort of NFL draft.

1112
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 2: Let me jump in real quick. So, what is because

1113
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 2: you mentioned that, and you mentioned earlier you can wait

1114
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 2: on speed. You can find speed in the fourth round.

1115
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 2: You know, you can find a dude who's five to eleven,

1116
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:46,800
Speaker 2: two hundred and can run a four to four or whatever,

1117
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 2: and you can plug him in the.

1118
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:48,879
Speaker 1: Way you see fit.

1119
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 2: What does your positional value draft board look like? What

1120
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 2: do you need to grab as soon as possible if

1121
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 2: you are Robert May's general manager, and what are you

1122
00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 2: waiting on?

1123
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 4: I think, I mean, quarterback is a different conversation outside

1124
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 4: of quarterback. Yeah, yeah, outside of quarterback. I don't have

1125
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 4: any hard and fast rules. I've rethought a lot of

1126
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 4: this stuff compared to what I would have thought five

1127
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 4: years ago. If you had asked me five years ago,

1128
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 4: I would have said quarterback, edge rusher, offensive tackle, a corner, receiver,

1129
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 4: and then probably interior defensive line, interior offensive line, and

1130
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 4: safety somewhere in there. I think the game has changed

1131
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 4: a lot, and I think that my views on it

1132
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 4: have changed a decent amount. I think corner and edge

1133
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 4: rusher are closer than they would have been. There's a

1134
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 4: lot of data out there suggesting that past coverage is

1135
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 4: more valuable than past rush. I don't know how much

1136
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 4: I believe that or buy into that. I think they're

1137
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 4: probably pretty close. I also think that if you can

1138
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 4: find a dominant interior rusher, that that changes the equation

1139
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 4: in the same way that an edge rusher might like

1140
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 4: an Aaron Donald or Chris Jones or even at Toforest

1141
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 4: Buckner last year. I think those guys. The gap between

1142
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 4: that and the best edge rusher has probably shrunk a

1143
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 4: little bit. I think that safeties aren't less valuable than

1144
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,720
Speaker 4: they've been, but with the way the league is going,

1145
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 4: or seeing so many more split safety coverages in the NFL,

1146
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 4: that prototypical middle of the field center field safety that

1147
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 4: needs to be rangy isn't as valuable anymore because there

1148
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 4: are a fewer teams sticking in a Cover three shell

1149
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,359
Speaker 4: and playing that way. So if your safety requires less

1150
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 4: movement skills, maybe he's not as impressive on tape and

1151
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 4: you can find him a little bit later in the draft.

1152
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 4: So I don't know if their importance has changed, or

1153
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 4: if the types of players that can fit those roles

1154
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 4: that pool has just gotten bigger. So I think it's

1155
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:47,320
Speaker 4: very muddy. I mean, it depends on what sort of

1156
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 4: system you're running. It's definitely something that I've rethought and

1157
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 4: reshuffled more in the last couple of years than I

1158
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 4: probably had in the previous five years combined.

1159
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 1: All right, mister Mays, we'll get you out of here

1160
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: on this rapid fire. I'm going to put you on

1161
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: the spot. I hate to do it, but's why we're here.

1162
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a handful of teams and

1163
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,720
Speaker 1: I want you to tell me who they should pick. Okay,

1164
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:13,359
Speaker 1: let's do it. The Jets at two, Justin Fields. I

1165
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: like that pick. That's the correct pick for those playing

1166
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:18,280
Speaker 1: along at home. The Falcons at four.

1167
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:25,560
Speaker 4: Trey Lance if Justin Fields is off aboarded too, Okay.

1168
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,919
Speaker 1: My New York Giants at eleven.

1169
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:33,280
Speaker 3: Elijah Vera Tucker if he's there, and.

1170
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 1: Your Chicago Bear is at twenty.

1171
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 4: That I don't have as much of a conviction on

1172
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 4: because I think that it'll depend on who's around and

1173
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 4: certain positions. That team is not nearly as fully formed

1174
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 4: as people seem to like, or people seem to think

1175
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 4: and people seem to talk about. I don't think they're

1176
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 4: one receiver or one tackle. I think they need an

1177
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 4: offensive tackle, they need secondary help, they need receiving help.

1178
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,720
Speaker 4: They could probably, I mean, there's so many different areas

1179
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 4: so idea. If we're up to me, and I think

1180
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 4: if Darisol was on the board, I would take him.

1181
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 4: I don't think he will be. If it were beyond that,

1182
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 4: I think it would probably come down to Rashad Bateman

1183
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 4: and Tevin Jenkins, and I'd probably take Bateman just because

1184
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,240
Speaker 4: I love his game in the style which he plays,

1185
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 4: and who knows how long Al Robinson's going to be there,

1186
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 4: So again it's hard to say one specific guy just

1187
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 4: because I think they have more holes than other people might.

1188
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 1: And because we need to be inclusive. I should also

1189
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 1: mention at three traded up big big headlines here leading

1190
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: up to the draft, Dan's San Francisco forty fives.

1191
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 4: Well, if they, I mean, so can we use the

1192
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 4: players we already picked? Because if Justice Fields is there,

1193
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 4: I would.

1194
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:48,240
Speaker 3: Pick Justin Fields.

1195
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, But if he were to go to the Jets,

1196
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,439
Speaker 4: then I'd still probably say Trey Lance for them too.

1197
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 4: That's who I would pick, probably over mac Jones. But

1198
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 4: I understand the argument for mac Jones for them. You know,

1199
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 4: Lance is a little bit more of a project in

1200
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 4: the sense that if the accuracy isn't where you'd want

1201
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:05,919
Speaker 4: it to be, all that other stuff. The thing though

1202
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 4: he played the exact same amount of games as mac

1203
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 4: Jones in college. The idea that we talked about Mac

1204
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 4: Jones is this finished product and Trey Lance has so

1205
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 4: far to go, which I think is how it's being viewed.

1206
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 4: You know, mac Jones is the win now guy. Trey

1207
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 4: Lance is somebody who could sit for a year they

1208
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 4: started the exact same number of games in college, and

1209
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 4: that has not been brought up nearly.

1210
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 2: Off fit enough, Ty, here's my final question, just because

1211
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 2: life seems to be opening up Chicago. There are few,

1212
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 2: if any better places during the summer. What are you

1213
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 2: eating this summer in the beautiful city of Chicago, inside, outside,

1214
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:41,760
Speaker 2: everywhere between.

1215
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:46,280
Speaker 4: I'm so excited. I have dinner reservations at Suko, which

1216
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 4: is the Carlos Guiden who was on Top Chef and

1217
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,359
Speaker 4: he ran Mechik. It's his new restaurant in River North.

1218
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 4: I'm excited to eat there this week.

1219
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 3: I have kind of.

1220
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 2: What kind of food is that?

1221
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 3: Mexican?

1222
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 4: It's Mexican food, so it's Mexican food with like French influence.

1223
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 4: And Samus's other place, who was had a Michelin star Rosemary,

1224
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 4: which is the new restaurant from Joe Flamm who won

1225
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 4: Top Chef. I know about the Chicago guy. So it's

1226
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 4: a Croatian Italian place in Fulton Market. The menu looks crazy,

1227
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 4: it looks exactly like what.

1228
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 3: I want to eat.

1229
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 4: And then there's a new Greek place in Logan Square

1230
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 4: Semi knew by one of the guys who was the

1231
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 4: head chef. I think at rpm Italian that opened a

1232
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 4: place called Andros Taverna in Logan Square. I want to

1233
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 4: say it's on Kedzie, right there near the park. I'm

1234
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 4: going there the week after. I have like six reservations

1235
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 4: I've already set up over the next couple of weeks.

1236
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 2: My wife looked up Rosemary and apparently there were only

1237
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 2: reservations at like nine to thirty on Mondays available, But

1238
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 2: that is stashed away. We will get there this summer.

1239
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 4: I may have pulled a couple strings, so WHOA. I

1240
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 4: don't want any more people to know who I am

1241
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 4: than know right now. I want this level of whatever

1242
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 4: fame is not famous the wrong word, but this level

1243
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 4: of awareness. The fact that I can get a table

1244
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 4: at a Chicago restaurant is exactly the sweet spot of

1245
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 4: where I want to be living.

1246
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 3: I say, no more than what I have right at

1247
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 3: this moment.

1248
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 2: That's a perfect level. I have no complaints. I would

1249
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 2: love to reach that level. I mean, I'm in the burbs,

1250
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 2: this is not that exciting, but there are so many

1251
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 2: places in the city I'm dying to try. Because I've

1252
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 2: only been here less than a year, so I essentially

1253
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 2: my Palette is still extremely green with Chicago.

1254
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to get down here. I mean it's this.

1255
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 4: There's so many places and they keep sprouting up. I

1256
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 4: mean obviously some places closed, but I mean there are

1257
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 4: three or four even new places that I'm really excited

1258
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 4: about that I haven't even gotten a try that came

1259
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 4: out as the pandemic was happening or right now. I

1260
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:51,240
Speaker 4: mean Rosemary's brand brand new, So I'm really looking forward.

1261
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 4: Have you been to the things I'm most excited about.

1262
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 2: I think it's called Pizza Friendly Pizza. Have you been there?

1263
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 2: I have not, and I think it's in Ukrainian Village.

1264
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 2: You actually go through an alley to get it. It's

1265
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 2: like the perfect level of like very dumb, hipster pizza

1266
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 2: stand that could exist. It's wonderful.

1267
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 4: I think there's a bunch of them now on the

1268
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 4: West Side. There are too many of them for me

1269
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 4: to even try. I live right near the new Polyges

1270
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 4: and Wicker Park, and that they already have a Logan

1271
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 4: Square location. I mean, there's so many of them, I

1272
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 4: feel like I'm never gonna be able to try them all.

1273
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 4: I have to come and try your pizza at some

1274
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 4: point anytime.

1275
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 2: Anytime you tell me what toppings would make up the

1276
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 2: magnificent maze or whatever we call your square or circular pie.

1277
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 2: What is your topping of choice? Are you like your

1278
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 2: topping combo?

1279
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 4: I have a couple different ways that I go. I'm

1280
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 4: a big fan of artichoke on pizza. Okay, really like artichoke,

1281
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 4: and I am thinking of all the things I can

1282
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 4: put it on, put on it at piece because they have,

1283
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 4: like the most the biggest list of toppings. I'm a

1284
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 4: big fan of green olives on pizza, so some some

1285
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 4: sort of pepperoni, sausage, artichoke, green olive conversation combination is

1286
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 4: where I often.

1287
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:54,439
Speaker 3: Like to live.

1288
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 2: You like that punch of salt?

1289
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 3: I do? I do?

1290
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 4: I know it's a lot, but for whatever reason, I

1291
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 4: just love green olives and it doesn't overwhelm me.

1292
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 2: I'm gonna think on this ty this. This is as

1293
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 2: good an insight as I could have hoped for.

1294
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: This is a natural segue from draft to salty pizza.

1295
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 1: I love it. A good way to close it out here,

1296
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: Robert Mays, enjoy the rest of your week. Best of

1297
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 1: luck to you. As the NFL Draft continues turning along.

1298
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll be short on sleep at some point,

1299
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 1: but always appreciate your coverage and watch us. Thank you

1300
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: very much for stopping by. Yeah, watch the stream.

1301
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 3: Check it out.

1302
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 1: Where can we find Can we find the stream?

1303
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,919
Speaker 4: It'll be on Twitter, It'll be on the Athletics YouTube page.

1304
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 4: If you check the Athletic app, you'll be able to

1305
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 4: see it. I'm sure I'll tweet about it fifty times

1306
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 4: between now and the draft.

1307
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 3: But good.

1308
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,320
Speaker 4: It's me Nate Tice, Dane brug or Lindsay Jones, and

1309
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 4: we're gonna start live at nine thirty Eastern, essentially after

1310
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 4: the fifteenth pick. We wanted not to compete with the broadcast,

1311
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 4: but as things are slowing down, we'll be speeding up.

1312
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 4: So hopefully people will come and spend some time.

1313
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: Done cool, well, enjoy the week, enjoy the draft, and

1314
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 1: we'll have to have you back.

1315
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 3: On soon anytime. Guys. I really appreciate the time. This

1316
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 3: is great, all.

1317
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 1: Right, Dan Robert mays one more time from the Athletic

1318
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 1: I feel smarter, actually.

1319
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 2: As do I I when he says things like you

1320
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 2: can wait on speed, just like draft speed, and like

1321
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 2: the third or fourth round. You know, there's always guys,

1322
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 2: of that body type with that ability. I thought to myself, Yeah,

1323
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 2: I will wait on speed as if I will ever

1324
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 2: be in that that that share deciding on how to

1325
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 2: build an NFL team. But like, yeah, yeah, that does

1326
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 2: make sense. Great call, so I mas was fantastic.

1327
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: I appreciate the insight of Mac Jones because Mac Jones,

1328
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 1: no disrespect to him. I don't get it.

1329
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 2: Give me well Son, I don't get. Let's break things out.

1330
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 2: I don't know if you want to pull up a

1331
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 2: mock draft or something like that. Are tell me the

1332
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 2: guys that you get and that you don't get or like,

1333
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 2: don't get that they're not higher and don't get that

1334
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 2: they are high? Who like? What names to you in

1335
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 2: this process? As a very casual NFL fan, sure ring

1336
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 2: out to you.

1337
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 1: I don't get any of the quarterbacks outside of Trevor

1338
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 1: Lawrence and Justin Fields. That's it. I don't I don't

1339
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 1: get the fascination with the others.

1340
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 2: You don't get the fascination with Zach. Like Zach Wilson

1341
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 2: had a really nice year, he had a great year.

1342
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:10,720
Speaker 1: Now he had a great year, he had a great year.

1343
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 1: I still don't get it. I think it would be awesome.

1344
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: It may not make total sense to reunite Joe Burrow

1345
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 1: and Jamar Chase, but as Robert said, receiver is a

1346
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 1: position of need, and I think it would be a

1347
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: cool union to bring those two back together. So that's

1348
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 1: interesting to me. That's just sort of narrative though, that's narrative. Yeah,

1349
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 1: it's it's not, you know, necessarily a gets versus not gets.

1350
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: I know that running backs don't get drafted that highly.

1351
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 1: I love Nagie Harris. So I love Nagie Harris, and

1352
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: I think he's going to be a monster at the

1353
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 1: next level because, as I think we said on the show,

1354
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:00,959
Speaker 1: I feel like just this past year we got more

1355
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 1: introduced to the moves that Naji Harris has, sure and O,

1356
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: but like was given that chance to be more of

1357
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 1: an all purpose back exactly fully weaponized in the SARK system. Yeah,

1358
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 1: he's got serious moves, and I think he's going to

1359
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 1: be a force at the next level for many years

1360
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:17,439
Speaker 1: to come.

1361
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:20,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, to me, this is all half baked. My theory

1362
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 2: is about NFL and college value. It's what are the

1363
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 2: things that you can do, not the singular thing that

1364
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 2: you can do, Like for Najie Harris, it's what is

1365
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 2: it that you can do as a receiver as well

1366
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 2: as a running back as the NFL heads to a

1367
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 2: more open place offensively, and that you're you're hunting for

1368
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 2: mismatches if you're an offensive coordinator. So if you get

1369
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 2: Najie Harris on an outside linebacker or something, that becomes

1370
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 2: a problem. And so for offensive lineman, sure, it's great

1371
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 2: to be able to, you know, protect the quarterback. It's

1372
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 2: great to be able to move defensive lineman the other direction,

1373
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 2: But like, what are you doing in the open field

1374
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 2: if you're called upon on us? You know, what are

1375
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,439
Speaker 2: what are large dudes doing in terms of small dude

1376
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 2: activity and what are smaller dudes during in terms of

1377
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 2: larger dude activity. Are you a safety who can rush

1378
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 2: the quarterback? Are you Derwin James? That to me is

1379
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 2: where like the unicorns, special players are are the guys

1380
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 2: that can do multiple things on an extremely high level.

1381
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 2: That's fascinating. That's why I brought up Isaiah Simmons. That's

1382
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 2: why we bring up Kyle Pitts because you know he

1383
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 2: can be an inline blocker if asked to be, but

1384
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 2: also he's an unguardable threat in the passing game. So

1385
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 2: that is fascinating to see not just who is valued,

1386
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 2: but why they're valued and what can they do at

1387
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 2: three different elite or responsible actions than more so than

1388
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 2: the players are like, yeah, I can, I can run

1389
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 2: off tackle and that's sort of what I do. And

1390
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 2: I think that's that's where we're heading from a football perspective,

1391
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 2: is what is the what is the total bag of

1392
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 2: tricks that I possess. That's fascinating.

1393
01:04:56,760 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I also think that Micaeh Parson should go higher

1394
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 1: than what I've seen in a lot of recent mock drafts.

1395
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: And again, I know means am I an NFL analyst

1396
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 1: here right. I think he's the best linebacker in the draft,

1397
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 1: and I'd be surprised if he fell to Like, gosh,

1398
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 1: I'm looking at one that's got him at twenty, that

1399
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 1: would stun me if he failed that far.

1400
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 2: I'm looking right now. I mean, it's a pretty fun draft.

1401
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 2: It's interesting to me to see Jalen Wattle and DeVante Smith.

1402
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 2: DeVante Smith as accomplished as he was behind Jalen Waddle,

1403
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:35,720
Speaker 2: who seemed like more of a specialized player, I mean

1404
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 2: an incredible specialized player, but DeVante Smith was just unguardable.

1405
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 2: Now it's the size thing, But I don't know, as

1406
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 2: May's mentioned it, just it seems like he's going to

1407
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 2: succeed and be looked at as an exception because it's

1408
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 2: so difficult when he's that thin. But he was playing

1409
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 2: against SEC corners like he is in a position to

1410
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 2: have the experience to succeed. People love your Notre Dame

1411
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 2: linebacker a w SU Carmoa, Sue Caromo. Yeah, yeah, not

1412
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:06,160
Speaker 2: a huge linebacker, but crazy athletic and productive.

1413
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:08,640
Speaker 1: Had a really good year, really really good year.

1414
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 2: Was all over the place. No, it's it is fascinating,

1415
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 2: especially and he mentioned Christian Darasol like I could not

1416
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 2: I knew the name. I couldn't tell you that he

1417
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 2: was a first round pick versus a third round pick.

1418
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 2: And it's just because Virginia Tech has been difficult to

1419
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 2: watch for a couple of years, so I haven't been

1420
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 2: watching their offensive lineman too closely, so they haven't been

1421
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 2: playing too many huge games. But no, some of those guys,

1422
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:32,919
Speaker 2: like I remember Rashaan Slater a couple of years ago,

1423
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 2: popped the Northwestern tackle who sat out this past year.

1424
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 2: But man, there are some names in here I'm like, oh, man,

1425
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 2: this is you're rolling into the second round, and you

1426
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 2: know we're seeing god whom I seeing the second round

1427
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 2: that I remember just being like Jalen Mayfield was really

1428
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 2: good for Michigan. They're just it's it seems like and

1429
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 2: it's this way every year for me. You're like, man,

1430
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 2: this guy's a third round pick. He was good in college.

1431
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 2: Then I realize they're all good in college.

1432
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's a it's a sneaky good tight end

1433
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 1: draft too. Kyle Pitts of course, is chief among them,

1434
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 1: but Baby Gronk Pat Fryarmuth also in this draft. Brevin

1435
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 1: Jordan from Miami. Also in this draft. You've got a

1436
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 1: whole list of guys who are I think potentially playmakers

1437
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 1: coming out of that tight end spot. So I don't know,

1438
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 1: right in soliverbal at gmail dot com, let us know

1439
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:20,960
Speaker 1: your thoughts on who you like who you don't like,

1440
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 1: because we said, well, we'll do a show on Thursday.

1441
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 1: We'll have some draft angle to it.

1442
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:28,959
Speaker 2: It's the only thing to talk of Notre Dame guys

1443
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 2: in here in the top like three hundred yeah on

1444
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 2: a Notre Dame guys.

1445
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1446
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 2: Along the offensive line, along that defensive front. Fascinating.

1447
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 1: Building a winner, Dan, that's what they're doing.

1448
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 2: I guess, so hard for me to argue.

1449
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 1: Big Thanks to our guest of honor today, Robert Mays

1450
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 1: from The Athletic. We will be back on Thursday. In

1451
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 1: the meantime, going out to our website sliverbal dot com,

1452
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 1: check out our patreon at verballers dot com, and follow

1453
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 1: along on social media for that Go there, Dan Rubinstein

1454
01:07:57,840 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: for myself, Tie Hildebrandt, We'll talk to you all soon.

1455
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:01,960
Speaker 1: In the meantime, Stay solid, peace

1456
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:07,800
Speaker 4: MHM.