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Go to zip recruiter dot com, slash Nancy Grace, 20 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:22,839 Speaker 1: zip recruiter dot com Nancy Grace, zip recruiter dot com 21 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: slash Nancy Grace one more time to try it for free, 22 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: go to zip recruiter dot com slash Nancy Grace zip recruiter. 23 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being our partner. Climb stories with 24 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one two. Nick 25 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: and Jack Savage. The two brothers died two years ago 26 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: from an overdose of oxy codone and alcohol. Our boys, 27 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: by no means, were drug abusers and the ausupparch wives 28 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: that they made that night, these are kids. They're your 29 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: next door where my next door neighbor and trying to 30 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: get the final cross that you don't have to be 31 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: a drug abuser today have an overdose. This is the 32 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: real picture of America's opioid crisis. We're druggs. Don't discriminate. 33 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,679 Speaker 1: It's infesting neighborhoods across the heartland. One bad choice it 34 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: can kill you. It is ravaging every single segment of 35 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: our society. This is a chemical almost warfare on us. 36 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: More freezers are overflowing with the bodies of those who 37 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: lost their battle. Imagine you pouring all your hopes, all 38 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: your love, all your dreams into your children. You give 39 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: birth to them, You raise them, you watch them grow, 40 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: take their first steps, go to school, turn in two 41 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: young men or young women as they go through life 42 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: and your dreams seemingly come true, but then enter opioids. 43 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: One mom describes the agony of losing two teen boys 44 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 1: two opioids in one night, two teen boys, the loves 45 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: of her life gone in one night. I'm Nancy Grace. 46 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: This is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 47 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: Rebecca Savages, two boys, Jack and Nick both die after 48 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: taking oxy code own at a graduation party. Both dead, 49 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: she tries. She tries to revive Jack when she finds 50 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: him unresponsive in his bedroom and at the very same 51 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: time rescuers are trying to save Nick downstairs. Both gone, 52 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: just like that. And one night the c d C 53 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: the Center for Disease Control figures Joe Us released revealed 54 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: and a huge spike and overdose deaths in opioids as 55 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: our nation's struggles struggles to control addiction and joining me 56 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: right now is that mom? Rebecca Savage also joining me. 57 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: Renowned medical examiner from Madison Heights, Dr William Moroney, the 58 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: author of a brand new book available on Amazon that 59 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: every parent should read. American Narcan dealing with this exact problem. 60 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: Also joining us is psychologist from New York, Karen Stark. 61 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: To all of you, thank you for being with us. First, 62 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: to Rebecca Savage joining us, Rebecca, thank you so much 63 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: for joining us and sharing your story here on Sirius 64 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: x M. Thank you for the invite and for allowing 65 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: me to share Nick and Jack story with Rebecca. I 66 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: know that you have played it over a million times 67 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: in your mind, But what happened that evening the evening 68 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: you lost your two sons. Well, that evening, actually I 69 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: had been at graduation parties with my two older boys, 70 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: and um, they were leaving that party that we had 71 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: attended together to go with friends to another graduation party 72 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: and I went home. Um, they did check in with 73 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: me when they got home that night, and everything seemed 74 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: to be okay. Um, really, fireworks kind of hit the 75 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: next morning, when Sunday morning, I was doing household chores 76 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: and had gone in Jack's room to collect some laundry, 77 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: and I was talking to him about time to get up, 78 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, as dad had things he needed help with 79 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: today and just you know, geoffon last night just kind 80 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: of having a conversation and I noticed that he didn't respond, 81 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: and me, being a nurse, I went over and I 82 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: tried to wake him and he did not respond. And 83 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: that's when I went into nurse mo Um and checked 84 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: his pulse and UM started to see chair immediately and 85 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: called for night, you know, for help. So very difficult morning, Rebecca. 86 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: How was that day any different from every other day? 87 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: How did they get their hands on drugs? You know, 88 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: we've played that back in our minds, UM so many times. 89 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: From what we understand is that just half it came 90 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: with somebody else who was at the graduation party who 91 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: somebody had brought a bottle of pills UM and I 92 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: don't know where they had gotten them from. And these 93 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: pills are being distributed at this party. UM. Again, like 94 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: I've talked to other people about the dangers of that 95 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: UM now, but at that point, we hadn't probably had 96 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: that conversation with our kids about prescription drugs, because never, 97 00:06:57,720 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: in my mind did it ever occur to me that 98 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: they would pills that did not belong to them. Yeah, 99 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: I mean, doctor William Moroney, I agree. I've talked to 100 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: the children about drugs and alcohol and UM, although I 101 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: don't let them listen to our program. I talked about 102 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: it in general terms, but I wouldn't imagine talking about 103 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: taking prescription pills that belong to somebody else that I 104 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: never thought of. That a tremendous problem with um, the 105 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: casual nous that teenagers and young adults have shared things 106 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: that previous generations did not share. Medicine. This is officially 107 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: called diversion. It's against the law, and the doctors are 108 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: not counseling patients that they give these dangerous medicines to 109 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: to keep them safer. So part of this is on 110 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: the medical community not guarding and reducing thing wings. But 111 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: I want to take this time to tell Rebecca I'm 112 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: so sorry for your loss. Um. I have two children. 113 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: I have dedicated my life to stopping drug overdose. I 114 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: choose heroin because I think it's tearing us up. But OxyContin, oxycodon, hydrocodon, 115 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: opiate overdose deaths are tearing this country part. They are 116 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: reshaping the landscape. And I don't think our local governments 117 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: are states and our media really understand. The year that 118 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 1: your son's passed, we had fifty two thousand, four hundred 119 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: and four drug overdose deaths in America, and we're on 120 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: track for seventy to seventy five thousand drug overdose deaths. 121 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: Now it is people have been saying it's an epidemic 122 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,719 Speaker 1: this year, it's a pandemic. And at the Demmick is 123 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: something on the south side of Cincinnati. An epidemic is 124 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: in Green Bay, Wisconsin. This is from coast to coast 125 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: and not a single family is insulated. In my book, 126 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: I tell people what are the risk factors that every 127 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: parent should have narcan in their home because now thirty 128 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: seven states have narcan friendly laws. And I'm so sorry 129 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: that we didn't make the political headway. You know, it 130 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 1: was seemingly a normal day for an Indiana mom. For 131 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: Rebecca Savage. It was a Sunday morning, June. She got 132 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: up that morning and was beginning or day by doing 133 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: household chores. Her two older boys, Jack Um he had 134 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: graduated just graduated from pan High School, and Nick. They 135 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: had gone to parties the night before with their friends. 136 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 1: She went in Jack's room and told me it was 137 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: time to get up, just like we all do with children, 138 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 1: except he didn't respond, He didn't turn over, he didn't 139 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: say anything, nothing, no response at all. Rebecca, as she 140 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: just told you, as a nurse instructor immediately began CPR, 141 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: having no idea what was wrong. Nine one one was 142 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: called E. M T. S raced to the scene and 143 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: tried their very best, She says, she remembers one of 144 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: them heading down to the basement at that moment. She 145 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: didn't know that friends of Nick, who had stayed overnight 146 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 1: in the basement had also called because Nick two was 147 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: unresponsive in the basement. Rebecca loses two of her sons 148 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: that day. It ended up that Jack and Nick had 149 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: tried tried tested oxy codone at a party the night before, 150 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: or both of them overdosed. And with me right now 151 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: is Rebecca Savage? Rebecca, it actually hurts me to say 152 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: the facts of what happened, knowing that you are listening 153 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: and that it could cause you pain. When you think 154 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: back on that morning. What goes through your mind? You 155 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 1: know that morning, I just I remember thinking over and 156 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: over again, what is going on in my house? What happened? What? 157 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: You know, what's going on? I just was searching for answers, 158 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: like what could possibly have happened to them? Um? You know, 159 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: and everything you know was a blur. I mean when 160 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: I heard them call for a corner. That's probably about 161 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 1: the last real thing that I remember that day. Um. 162 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: But it's just a bunch of confusion and you know, 163 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: trying to figure out what happened. I mean, it's just 164 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: it is just unbelievable. What do you mean when you 165 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: say you can't remember exactly what happened? Well, I think 166 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: you know you're in a you're in a mindset where you, um, 167 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: you're just in um, your mode where you're trying to 168 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: figure out what's happening and take care of your kids. 169 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: You just go into nurse mode. And you know, after 170 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: they had called for a corner and I realized that, 171 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, at least one of them had passed away, 172 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: I think you're just in a state of shock, and 173 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: you really, you know, everything else that happens after that, 174 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: you're just numb. I mean, well, let me ask you this. 175 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: When you say the coroner told the coroner told you 176 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: that one of them passed away, how did that try 177 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: went upstairs? Um? And I had one of the first 178 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: responders had left Jack and was heading to the basement, um, 179 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: which I didn't know for what reason. And I remember 180 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: yelling at him, you know, don't give up on Jack. 181 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: He's a fighter, you know screen, you know, where are 182 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: you going? And um, when they came out of the basement, 183 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: he I had heard somebody say something about we need 184 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: to call the corner. And I had a police officer 185 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: with me that morning, just you know, trying to keep 186 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: me calm, and I was screaming at him. Did he 187 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: just call for a corner? And I just he's like, yes, 188 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, And I'm like, what is going on? 189 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: You know who's for And he's like, I'm sorry. It 190 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 1: was from Nick. And that is just you just you 191 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: can't believe it. It's just I still sometimes I think 192 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: it's not real. You know, it's just hard to comprehend that, 193 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,599 Speaker 1: you know, Rebecca, it takes me back to when I 194 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: realized my fiance was dead. It was right before a wedding, 195 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: just before a wedding, and I had been taking an 196 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: exam that day and was leaving and heading to my 197 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: job at the library. And I called the library to 198 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: tell them I was walking to work and I was 199 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: going to be about ten or fifteen minut It's like 200 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: because the test went long, and they told me to 201 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: call Keith's family and I knew right then. I think 202 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 1: I knew then that he was dead. I called them 203 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,319 Speaker 1: and I asked one question, is Keith gone? And they 204 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: said yes, and I dropped the phone. It was a 205 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: pay phone, and I headed out and I had nowhere 206 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: to go, and in route home, I saw cars part 207 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: outside our local church. I went in. I hardly remember this, 208 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: and my pastor called somebody and I saw him right. 209 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: I was on the other side of his desk and 210 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: I saw him right. It was upside down Bernstein Funeral Home, 211 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: and that's when I really realized that Keith was dead. 212 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: When you say you heard them say they're calling the coroner, 213 00:14:53,840 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: I cannot even imagine that happening to my child. I'm 214 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: just trying to take in what you're saying right now. 215 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: Where were you when that? So upstairs outside um Jack's 216 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: room and um we had an open four yeer and 217 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: our basement then went down from there and I had 218 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: heard him come up and that's when he had said it. 219 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: So I was upstairs and I just remember, you know, 220 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: you're thinking to yourself, this isn't that real. This cannot 221 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: really be happening, especially when I didn't know what had happened, 222 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: why they were in the situation they were in, you 223 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: know was it? You know, I didn't know what was 224 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: going on. So it's just the constant state of confusion 225 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: of what is happening to your kids. Dr William Moroney 226 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: is with me, medical examiner and author of madisone Heights. 227 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: His new book American Narcan available on Amazon now. Also 228 00:15:54,240 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: with me, Karen Stark, psychologists out of New York. First you, 229 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: Dr Maroney, why is it that people seem to think 230 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: less of taking a pill then they would um doing 231 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: a line of coke or snorting crack or you know, 232 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: using heroin. Why do we think why is the common 233 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: misconception that it's okay to take problem starts with the 234 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: origin of the pill. As it's diverted outside of the 235 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: medical system, the pills continue to bring this idea that 236 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: it's safe because it's still medicine, but it's being misused. 237 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: But it started out as medicine made by a company, 238 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: prescribed by a doctor, and that brings an unnecessary um gravitas. 239 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: It says this is safe, whereas clandestine drugs imported from 240 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: other countries, they go through Turkey or China or Thailand. People, 241 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: that's dangerous. Oh, you can't do. But so there's this 242 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: safe idea. That's a misperception that comes from drugs like this, 243 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: but they're every bit is deadly as heroin Karen Stark. 244 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: We hear Rebecca saying that it all seems that blurred 245 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: to her. She can't even really remember what happened. The 246 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: same thing happened to me. Why is that? What is that? 247 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: Because you're going through trauma. And by the way, Rebecca, 248 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: I know that my words really can't make a huge difference, 249 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: but I do want you to know that this is terrible. 250 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: I am so sorry that you would lose two children. 251 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: Just terrible, Nancy. As we discussed, even with you, you're 252 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: going through trauma, and when that happens, you disassociate. You're 253 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: not really in the moment. You can't really perceive what's happening. 254 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: It does feel like it's not real. There's too much 255 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: to take into your brain can't deal with it, and 256 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: so you are sort of going through slow motion. That's 257 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: what it feels like, that nothing that you're doing is 258 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 1: a conscious activity. Like you said, you wound up at 259 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: the church, you wound up with the pastor you don't 260 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: even know how it happened. And that's the state that 261 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: people wind up being in when confronted with that kind 262 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 1: of a situation. I'm talking to a mom, Rebecca Savage, 263 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: who loses two boys the same day after they experiment 264 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: at a graduation party for friends with opioid with OxyContin 265 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: also with me. In addition to Rebecca sharing her story, 266 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: Dr William Moroney, renowed medical examiner out of Madison Heights, 267 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: author of a new book, American Narcan, now available on Amazon, 268 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: and my friend and colleague Karen Stark, psychologists out of 269 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: New York. You know, Rebecca, as you were describing what 270 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: happened and how surreal it felt. Um, I think I've 271 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: told Karen start this story before. When it was Keith's funeral. 272 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: I remember going in and it's just a sickening smell 273 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: of carnations of like fake flowers, which to this day 274 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: I can't stand a smell. And at a distance, I 275 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: saw just a portion of Keith's profile in the casket 276 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: and I passed out right there in the foyer of 277 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: the funeral home. I just cannot imagine, Rebecca, how you 278 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: got through the funeral. I don't know how you did it. 279 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: Can you even remember it bits and pieces? Um? It 280 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: was extremely difficult, obviously, especially you know, the first time 281 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: we saw the boys before the funeral um with our 282 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: other two kids, it was extremely difficult. Um. Yeah, you 283 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: remember bits and pieces of it. My husband, you know, 284 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: he when you said you passed out, I mean he 285 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: he passed out when I when he came home because 286 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: he had been away with our other two younger kids, 287 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: and and I met him at the door and I 288 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: told him that they were gone. You know, he he 289 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: passed out. I mean he just was overwhelmed with grief. 290 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just overwhelming. I'm just trying to imagine 291 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: that moment. Rebecca. I'm I'm just so sorry what you 292 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: and your family have been through. I'm just I'm just 293 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: heartsick about it. What what do you believe? What pilled 294 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: do you think they got a hold of at the 295 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 1: graduation party? Well, I think it was oxy code om 296 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: um and it I don't know who it was prescribed to. 297 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: Like I said, I just heard bits and pieces that 298 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: um it was there was a somebody there passing out pills. 299 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 1: And from my understanding, there were a couple of other 300 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: kids at that party that needed medical attention, um, that 301 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 1: had also experimented with that medication. Dr Moroney how can that? 302 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: They were they bad pills? Did they take too many? 303 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,959 Speaker 1: How could that happen? Arguing more susceptible if it's your 304 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: first time ever even trying it. Well, there's two things. 305 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: Number One, these young men were naive. They were not 306 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: regular opiate users, so they were not they were not 307 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: tolerant or dependent. So the naive to the first dose. 308 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: And then if they got an extended release product, the 309 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: person who was out there diverting the drugs, if they 310 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: got an extended release, well the full effect into happened. 311 00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: The full peak dose level wasn't released for five six 312 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: sevent eight hours, maybe nine hours later, And that's why 313 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: they were able. They took the medicine, they made the decision, 314 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: and then the drug didn't hit them until later. Because 315 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: that's what an extended drug does, to last the last 316 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,400 Speaker 1: twelve hours at a time, so that the strength increases 317 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 1: over time. Is that what you're saying. More of the 318 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: drug is released so that when it's used for pain management, 319 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: it'll last twelve hours. It's it's in The drug doesn't 320 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 1: get released all at once, slowly reaches the peak at 321 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: five six seven eight hours, and that's when it hits 322 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: peak and that's when they overdosed. What we need to 323 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: do is to talk to our children and have that 324 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: critical conversation, and then when they come and go, we 325 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: we need to say, well, what did you do and 326 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 1: and and who did who did you see? And if 327 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: you have thirty seven out of fifty states have the 328 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: lock zonne friendly laws so that we can get the 329 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: the lock zone into the homes. And then when you're 330 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: kids come home. You know, usually with overdoses like this, 331 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: kids snore. The mothers I have they had children that overdose. 332 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: They said, you know, they sounded really tired. They snore. 333 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: Checked on your kids when they come home from parties. 334 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: And if they're snoring and they're hard to arouse, you 335 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: have the locks on in the home. You blowed up 336 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: their nose and call. Seventy seven percent of overdose deaths 337 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: are unintentional. The people they didn't mean to do this, 338 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,439 Speaker 1: that they took some pills at a party, people were 339 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: trying to get high, But seventy are unintentional. So we 340 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: really need to keep guarding our children. And um, you know, 341 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: my my book is a passionate call to arms against 342 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: the opiates that are sweeping across the country. The prescription 343 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: opiates that are diverted, and the fentanel and the heroines 344 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: because our systems are paralyzed. The medical schools and the 345 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: hospitals are really not helping us with the prevention. And 346 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: let me ask you, Dr Moroney's OxyContin, the same thing 347 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: is oxy codon. Oxycodone is the generic version of the drug. 348 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: The molecule is oxycodon. Oxy content is the extended release. 349 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: That's the one that you take in at last twelve 350 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: hours because it's slowly released. So that's my bet because 351 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: that's in the two thou fifteen, that's what a lot 352 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: of the doctors were prescribing. Rebecca. When you're hearing all 353 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: this discussion, I mean, it must seem so surreal to you. 354 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: Up until that night. Did they went to the graduation party? 355 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: Did you have any idea? Had they ever been in 356 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: trouble before? Never? What were they like? Um? They were 357 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 1: smart kids and popular kids, UM, athletic kids, UM kids 358 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: who did you know? Community service? Um? We're involved in 359 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: their school and worked in guidance you know, the guidance 360 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: UM office at their school. And that's why when I 361 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: found doubt what they had taken, it was so shocking 362 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: because never had they ever been in trouble for drinking, 363 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: you know, drugs an things. I mean, I don't even 364 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: think in either one of them even got a speeding ticket. 365 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 1: You know, they were just kids that followed the rules, 366 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: and unfortunately that night they succumbed to pure pressure and 367 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,360 Speaker 1: tried something they shouldn't have and paid the ultimate price. 368 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: What were their personalities? What were they like? Um? Jack 369 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: was real, UM, outgoing, UM, fun, a lot of fun. UM. 370 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: He always had a smile on his face and it 371 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: was always a crooked smile. He he had a crooked 372 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: smile and he smiled and UM, never knew a stranger. 373 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: Just was very very friendly. Nick was a lot had 374 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: the same, you know, a lot of the same personalities 375 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: that Jack did. UM. More quiet and reserved, UM, but 376 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: you know, still adventurous. UM. You know, they had a 377 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: lot of the same uh likes and life. UM hockey 378 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: obviously they both loved hockey and water sports and hanging 379 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: out with friends. And the two of them were, you know, 380 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: probably best friends. UM. So they did a lot of 381 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: things together. Do you believe they I mean, I'm sure 382 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: you've asked and tried to investigate and find out what 383 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 1: happened at the party. Do you think that they did 384 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: succumbed to pure pressure or do you think somebody slipped 385 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: it in their drink? What do you think happened? You know, 386 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. Um, I would hate to think somebody 387 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: would flip it into their drink. Um, But I don't. 388 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm you know, it's kind of something 389 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: that isn't readily talked about. You know. Unfortunately, a lot 390 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: of the kids, you know, don't want to be a 391 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: snitch or nark and you know, kind of say what 392 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: had happened, So we really still kind of had that 393 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: clouded version of what may have happened that night. You know, 394 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: I'm looking right now at the picture of you, Rebecca 395 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: and Jack and Nick um. Nick is standing right beside 396 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: you and Jack right beside him. I can't tell what 397 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: this is in the background, but it looks like maybe 398 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,440 Speaker 1: we were at a concert actually in Indianapolis. They were fun, 399 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: like I thought, they like to do fun things, So 400 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: that was, Um, we're down in Indianapolis for our concert. 401 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:30,360 Speaker 1: They are so precious, They're just they're just gorgeous. One 402 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: was headed to Indiana's Ball State University in the fall 403 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: and you said that Jack never met anybody he didn't 404 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: like anybody has had that crooked smile on his face, 405 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: and he just loved being with his friends. And Nick 406 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:51,159 Speaker 1: was more quiet and reserved and very calm. He had 407 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: just finished his freshman year at Indiana State University where 408 00:27:54,640 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: he was studying microbiology and chemistry. They loved hockey, and 409 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: they were very similar because they were so close in age. 410 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: I'm just looking at your your beautiful family. What effect 411 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: has this had on your family? Rebecca, Well, it's been devastating, UM, 412 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: But you know, you just go into protective mom mode. 413 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: And my focus, you know, obviously was to protect my 414 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: younger too, you know, UM, and to make sure that 415 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: they get through this and not suffer UM as a 416 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: result of what happened to Nick and Jack. Um. You know, 417 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: I kind of I feel like I live in a 418 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: constant state of anxiety, UM, because I'm so fearful that 419 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: something may happen to one of them, you know, whether 420 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: it be you know, a car accident or oh, Rebecca, Rebecca, 421 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: I do that too. I UM, I am so convinced, 422 00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: you know, after Keith was murdered, I'm constantly can ants 423 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: that something is going to take the twins away from me, 424 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,479 Speaker 1: because you know, for so many years, I just couldn't 425 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: even let myself. Whenever I even try to say wedding, 426 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: I would say funeral. And when I would try to 427 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: say funeral, I would say wedding. And I tried not 428 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: to do it anymore, and I kept doing it. And 429 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: do you know, over twenty years past and before I 430 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: could let myself even consider loving and and and having 431 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: a family. And now that I do have the twins, 432 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: I'm constantly afraid somebody is going to take them away. 433 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: Something's going to happen to them, Something's gonna happen to 434 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: my husband. It's just hearing you say that. How do 435 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: you find yourself being overprotective of your other children. I'm 436 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: constantly checking in with them. I just sent my Justin 437 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: off to college, and that was, you know, extremely difficult. 438 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: You know, you still want him to experience college and 439 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: have fun. But yet you know, I couldn't stress enough, 440 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: you know, like, you know how much we love him 441 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: and how important it is to make good choices and 442 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: to be a good friend. And you know, I think 443 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: we've talked about it so much now that he just 444 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: you know, as we're in the car, he grabbed my 445 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: farm and he's your mom. I know, I get it, Mom, 446 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: I get it. So, you know, with him, it's just 447 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: a constant conversation. And with my youngest one it's the 448 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: same kind of conversations, you know, but I asked more questions, 449 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: you know, like so, what friends were at at the 450 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: house you were at, you know, and with their mom 451 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: and dad home, and what you guys do, and you know, 452 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: just kind of more in depth, um questions. UM with them, 453 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: try not to be I mean, Rebecca, when I'm looking, 454 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: I'm looking at a picture of your whole family right now, 455 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: and it looks like you're an ad for now I'm 456 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: looking at the picture of you guys at the beach, 457 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: you look like an ad for like j Crew or 458 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: Brooks Brothers, Brooks Brothers. I mean, it's just it looks 459 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: like this perfect family, you know. I was talking to 460 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: a mom the other day whose son was murdered, a 461 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: little boy, Chucky Mok. And she said that when people 462 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: find out her son was murdered by a stranger, they 463 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: treat her differently, like she's a bad mom, like their 464 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: family must be don't different somehow because of violence. When 465 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: people find out your boys died from drugs, do they 466 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, look down on that. What's been your reaction. 467 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,959 Speaker 1: I think when people find out like they don't want 468 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: to talk about it, it's kind of like the elephant 469 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: in the room. And I think, you know, we're more 470 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: like we want to talk about it because it keeps 471 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: their memory alive. I mean, they were and they still 472 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: are our sons, um and they made a bad choice. 473 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: And I feel like the more we do talk about it, 474 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: then the more um life, maybe that we can save more. 475 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: Maybe somebody else will start talking about it more because 476 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: we're talking about it. Well, actually, after listening to you 477 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: and Dr Maroney and Karen Stark, I know that now, 478 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: even at this young age, I need to mention to 479 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: the twins about it's about pills, actual pills. I mean, 480 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: I was telling Dr Maroney, I just had knee surgery 481 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: a while back, and the doctor sent home um he 482 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: didn't send homes and picked up at the pharmacy. I 483 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: think it was oxycont I can't even remember anymore. And 484 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: I was so freaked out about having it in the house. 485 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: I made David flush it down the commode. We had 486 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: two prescriptions flushed him both I don't know what the 487 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: other one was. We flushed him both down the commode 488 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: through away the bottle. I just was so nutted up 489 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: about the whole thing. It's funny how people won't even 490 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: bring it up to you, Rebecca. Maybe they're afraid that 491 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: they'll upset you. I think so. Um, I think I 492 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: think you're right about that. Like, it's kind of hard 493 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: to talk about that especially. Um, it was such a 494 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: tragic event. Um. And it still hurts. You know, it's 495 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,479 Speaker 1: still um recently, you know, it's still hurts. I think 496 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: it will always hurt. It will. Um. I tell you know, 497 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: parents that conversations have to be had. You know, you 498 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: have to talk about it and bring it to the 499 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: forefront and um let them, I mean, start to those conversations. Yeah, 500 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: it's it's not an easy thing. It's not an easy thing, 501 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: but it's part of being a good parent. Two. Dr 502 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: William Roney joining us, author of a new book, American 503 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: Narcan that deals with this exact topic. OxyContin oxycodone. Now 504 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: this is a yes no. Dr Maroney. Are they opioid derivatives? Yes? Okay, 505 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: wait wait wait I'm working up with something. This is 506 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: also a yes no heroin is an opioid derivative. Correct, 507 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: and heroin comes from poppies. Correct, heroin comes from poppies, 508 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: but there's some chemical actions to the natural product to 509 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 1: make the heroine. All right, this is what I'm getting at. 510 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: I I've told you this before. I always think of 511 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: that scene where Dorothy is walking through the big poppy 512 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: field and they get sleepy and the witch has put 513 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: a spell on her and she falls asleep. It's actually 514 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: the poppies. Anyway. People don't connect that OxyContin and oxy 515 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: code O our cousins to heroin. And I I remember 516 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: Karen Stark. My husband came home and he was crying, 517 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: what is wrong. David and a friend of his that 518 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: he had worked with a long time had a son, 519 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: the Golden Boy. And I mean that in a good way. 520 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: It's like I'm I want to say, a track star 521 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: and straight. A student got involved with heroin and accidentally 522 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: overdosed and died, and they had sent him to one 523 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: of those boot camps to try to save him. And 524 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: he came back. He seemed totally clean, everything was fine, 525 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: back on track. He tried it one more time and 526 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: o'deed and died and the father was just numb. I 527 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: don't know how you deal with that kind of lost. Karen, Well, 528 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: it never really goes away, as I said to Rebecca. 529 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: But what Rebecca and her family are doing, that's the 530 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: best thing that you could possibly do. Is to go 531 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 1: out there, talk about it, try and do something proactive 532 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: to prevent it from happening to other children, and to 533 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: educate people that this is not aspirin, This is not 534 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: a could. These are the same and have the same 535 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: effect as if you were doing heroine or any other 536 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: kind of um painkiller. You know, another aspect to it, 537 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 1: Kieren Stark Um, Rebecca, I want to throw this to you. 538 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 1: Rebecca Savage joining us. She lost two beautiful boys because 539 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 1: of one night at a graduation party where they succumbed 540 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: to pure pressure and try some pills. According to Dr 541 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: Moroney's analysis, the pills were time activated and the oxyconton 542 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: didn't kick in until the wee hours, and they both 543 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: died in one day. Rebecca, I didn't realize it at 544 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 1: the time, but I realize it now. When you say 545 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: my fiancee was murdered, When you say my son's died, 546 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: uh a drug overdose and somehow puts you in a 547 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: different category. People look at you differently. It's like, well, 548 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: what were they doing wrong? Why did that happen to you? 549 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 1: This wouldn't happen to a normal family. That's not true. 550 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I know I'm talking over the radio, but 551 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: if you could see Rebecca's family, I swear they look 552 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 1: like they're out of an ad. We're not different. We're 553 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: like everybody else. What everybody does else doesn't get is 554 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,399 Speaker 1: it can happen to you. I don't care if you've 555 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: got a grad degree from Harvard or you're a millionaire. 556 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. This type of tragedy happens across the boards. Rebecca. Yes, 557 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,320 Speaker 1: and that's when I go and I talk to people. 558 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 1: That's what I'm trying to get across is that we're 559 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: just normal people. I mean, we're just average people are 560 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: with good kids who made a bad choice, and that 561 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: this problem can touch anybody. It's not stereotypical. It can 562 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 1: affect anybody family. So for anyone to say it can't 563 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: happen to me, that is a dangerous statement to make, 564 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: because it can happen to you and happy today, Rebecca, 565 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,720 Speaker 1: do you feel that either of the boys have tried 566 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,800 Speaker 1: to communicate with you since they passed on. Um, I 567 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 1: do I you know, you know that's just my own belief. Um. 568 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: You know, like special things, you know, dreams or you know, 569 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: a cardinal here there. You know, you just you see 570 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: certain things and that you think, you know, maybe that 571 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,320 Speaker 1: it's just them. Um, I do know, and I do 572 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: feel like they would be proud of the efforts that 573 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 1: that we're putting forth to hopefully save somebody else with life. Um. 574 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: And like you know, I've told people before, I can't 575 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: even think that their story ended the way it did 576 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: on June. I'm a girl who likes happy endings and 577 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: stories and books and movies, and I just I'm going 578 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: to do my darnedist to make sure their story ends 579 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: in a positive note where somebody, maybe it's life was 580 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:16,240 Speaker 1: safe because of hearing their tragic story. That's Michael Rebecca. 581 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,360 Speaker 1: I've got to tell you how much you are inspiring me. 582 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: Thank you. I just can't imagine the suffering in the 583 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: heartbreak that you and your husband went through. To Dr 584 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: William Moroney, what is the message to parents listening right now? 585 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: Right now? The messages our medical system created part of 586 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 1: this problem with lax prescribing and hospitals are paralyzed, medical 587 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: schools are out of touch, and the lawmakers about five 588 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: years behind. Every home needs the locks zone Nasal narcans 589 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 1: ray injectable in the locks on every home, just like 590 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 1: an EpiPen, just like peanut allergies. And my book helps 591 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: you show that the data in America is driving this 592 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,319 Speaker 1: problem to become more common than it should be. I've 593 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 1: given a passionate call to arms against this death storm 594 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: sweeping across America. It's not an epidemic, it's a pandemic. 595 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,280 Speaker 1: It's in Canada, it's in Costa Rica, it's in Europe. 596 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,320 Speaker 1: This is happening everywhere, and I share her pain. But 597 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: this is happening in every state in America, and we 598 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: need to educate people, and the systems we used to 599 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 1: educate have failed us. That's why I put a book 600 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: out so that people can get it and see that 601 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: more people are at risk than you're comfortable sleeping with 602 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 1: every night. To you, Karen Stark, what is the message? 603 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 1: The message is to be very aware of what's going 604 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,320 Speaker 1: on with your children, to have open discussions and to 605 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: look for signs that there's some kind of change in 606 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: their behavior. To all of a sudden notice. You know, 607 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: if you notice that you're happy, go lucky, child has 608 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 1: become extremely moody or shut themselves off with their concentrations, 609 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,320 Speaker 1: is not the same if their grades have changed, and 610 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,800 Speaker 1: you really have to be vigilant when it comes to 611 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 1: that to notice those kinds of details, not to be 612 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 1: afraid to talk about it, not to be afraid to 613 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,800 Speaker 1: explain that this is very different than if you're taking 614 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: an aspirint. Not to combine alcohol with any kind of 615 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: a drug. To keep that conversation going all the time. 616 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:45,879 Speaker 1: Rebecca Savages Facebook is five to five foundation. Rebecca, tell 617 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:51,320 Speaker 1: me what your message is to all the parents listening 618 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 1: right now. My message is um to have those conversations 619 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: and to not tell our kids all the time what 620 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: they can't do. You can't do drugs, you can't do alcohol, 621 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: you can't do this, but to arm them with things 622 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,360 Speaker 1: that they can do, because we as parents know that 623 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 1: our kids are going to be faced with some of 624 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,239 Speaker 1: these issues at some point. It's just a matter of time. 625 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 1: So we need to arm them with avenues of things 626 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: that they can do when they are approached with something 627 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 1: like this, letting them know that it's okay to go 628 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 1: against the grain of peer pressure and you know to 629 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,799 Speaker 1: say no. UM. I'm also having a real, a big 630 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: push on cleaning out those medicine cabinets. If you have 631 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 1: an unused prescription or an expired prescription, to get it 632 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 1: out of your house, UM and dispose of them properly. 633 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: And if you do have the need for the medication 634 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: in your house, make sure that you know where it's 635 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 1: at and keep it safeguarded so that it doesn't come 636 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: up missing. UM. Just simple things that we all can do, 637 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: UM to help fight this issue that we're having in 638 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 1: our community. Rebecca Savage is with us. And Rebecca, you 639 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: just said that you love a happy ending and that 640 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:10,280 Speaker 1: you you can't believe, you can't accept that their story 641 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 1: is over, that it ended that day in June. Or 642 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:20,320 Speaker 1: I want to tell you Nick and Jack's story is 643 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: not over. So help me God, their story is going on. 644 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: Thanks to you. Thank you, Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off, 645 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:34,359 Speaker 1: goodbye friend.