WEBVTT - Fortescue Founder Andrew Forrest Talks Clean Energy Transition

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>Just this past week for TOSCU, the world's fourth biggest

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<v Speaker 2>iron ore miner, saying it will pay two point eight

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<v Speaker 2>billion to replace two thirds of its fleet of hollage

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<v Speaker 2>trucks and equipment in Western Australia with EV versions as

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<v Speaker 2>it seeks to cut diesel consumption and meet ambitious emissions

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<v Speaker 2>reduction targets. There's a lot going on.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there sure is, and look we've got lots to

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<v Speaker 1>talk to Andrew Farist about it, joins us in studio,

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<v Speaker 1>executive chairman and billionaire of Perth, Australia based Fordescu in

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<v Speaker 1>town this week during the U and General Assembly and

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<v Speaker 1>Climate Week as well. Welcome to Bloomberg Business Week. How

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<v Speaker 1>are you? I'm on fire?

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just an exciting place right now. It certainly is.

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<v Speaker 1>And look at a time that we're going to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about your climate transition plan a moment, because that's a

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<v Speaker 1>really interesting conversation. We've spent all week talking about China

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<v Speaker 1>and the stimulus efforts being made there, and this is

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<v Speaker 1>a story that's very central to your business as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Imported iron or used in roughly of eighty percent of

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<v Speaker 1>Chinese steel production. Talk to us about the picture that

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<v Speaker 1>you're seeing of the Chinese economy from you're a side

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<v Speaker 1>of the business and the demand. How bad is it? Oh? Oh?

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<v Speaker 1>How good is I mean?

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<v Speaker 3>Basically, you've had mining companies being fat, dumb and happy

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<v Speaker 3>for a very long time because the anal price has

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<v Speaker 3>been so good. So we're all heroes. But now, oh

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<v Speaker 3>my god, the annual price is fallen, which means it's

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<v Speaker 3>a lot better value, by the way, for the customer,

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<v Speaker 3>and we have to work a lot harder as mine is.

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<v Speaker 3>We have to work harder to actually make a margin.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's a good thing. And when people think that

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<v Speaker 3>one throe, they think, well, how do I lower my margins? Well,

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<v Speaker 3>one third of my cost is diesel fuel one third, right,

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<v Speaker 3>one third. Imagine if we get rid of that. Oh,

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<v Speaker 3>by the way, we'd also be going zero missions if

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<v Speaker 3>we did that. So we've been working on this for

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<v Speaker 3>years and years and years, and to give you an

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<v Speaker 3>idea of how strong that demand is, because people are

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<v Speaker 3>looking hard at their operating costs. Now, we took years

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<v Speaker 3>and years to get up at three hundred and sixty

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<v Speaker 3>truck order. Now these are big trucks, right, you've got

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<v Speaker 3>the hub caps starting at the roof here, and yesterday

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<v Speaker 3>we signed another hundred and got walkins for another four

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<v Speaker 3>hundred in our day. So from three or four years

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<v Speaker 3>for three sixty for a day for another five hundred.

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<v Speaker 3>So this is showing you that the mining industry is saying, hey,

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<v Speaker 3>we've got to really look at operating costs and fortescue

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<v Speaker 3>and Middle East driven because it wanted to go zero

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<v Speaker 3>missions because we bloody will have to as a human race.

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<v Speaker 3>But then we also have to prove that it's highly commercial.

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<v Speaker 3>And what you're seeing happen yesterday and today is that

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<v Speaker 3>going zero missions is highly commercial.

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<v Speaker 1>To just say you're not worried about China.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I've just come from China and I've just

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I get accused when I'm in Chinese, when

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<v Speaker 3>i'm a China being very pro North American. When I'm

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<v Speaker 3>in North America, I get accutes of being v being

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<v Speaker 3>very pro China.

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<v Speaker 1>So no, but this is interesting. Look and love you both.

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<v Speaker 1>The narrative is so negative and has been for so long.

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<v Speaker 3>The problem I'm afraid you're wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>You are wrong.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, here in North America, you haven't completely different system.

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<v Speaker 3>You get lag effects and lowering interest rates and things

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<v Speaker 3>like that, and it's macroeconomic policy and it works really

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<v Speaker 3>well over a long time. If they want to hit

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<v Speaker 3>the accelerator, hit the brakes, you know, you see the

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<v Speaker 3>impact straight away. So they did a little bit of priming,

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<v Speaker 3>not much. I going to say as a percentage of GDP,

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<v Speaker 3>you'd be hard to measure it. But that is kicked

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<v Speaker 3>investments straight away. It's kicked the iron or price, kicked

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<v Speaker 3>iron or demand.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a five percent growth and art a concern. It's

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<v Speaker 1>going to happen.

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<v Speaker 3>Look, I'm completely not worried about it. And by the way,

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<v Speaker 3>if it's four or six, I know big countries who'd

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<v Speaker 3>love to get two or three. So you know, for

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<v Speaker 3>our demand, I'm seeing the iore price come down and

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<v Speaker 3>I'm saying good.

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<v Speaker 2>So Andrew, Basically what you're saying is China's like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>if there still isn't enough, we're going to do more.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>And also, you know, I love North America because we're

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<v Speaker 3>aligned with North America. I love China because they're actually

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<v Speaker 3>leading the world on going green. I mean, they are

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<v Speaker 3>way ahead of their own plan. And you know everyone,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean North America and China kicking the hell out

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<v Speaker 3>of each other is really bad for the overall human race.

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<v Speaker 3>This geostrategic war between North America precipitate, I want to

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<v Speaker 3>put it bluntly by North America. And look, China does

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<v Speaker 3>all these things wrong too, and you can jump on

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<v Speaker 3>their toes, but you jump on their toes in private.

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<v Speaker 3>You don't do it by shouting at them from New

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<v Speaker 3>York or Washington DC.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, does that then worry you about who's in the

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<v Speaker 2>White House come November, because there is people who have

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<v Speaker 2>a softer touch and people who don't.

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<v Speaker 3>Fortescue has a policy that we deal with any elected

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<v Speaker 3>leadership that usuckers want to put up right. So you know,

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<v Speaker 3>if you want to put up Trump, I've got to

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<v Speaker 3>say this Ukraine badge. If there's a deal cut which

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<v Speaker 3>rewards an invader for invading a country which you've had

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<v Speaker 3>as an enemy for eighty years, and you go cut

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<v Speaker 3>a deal and reward a bad guy for being bad,

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<v Speaker 3>We're down in the Pacific and we're going to say

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<v Speaker 3>hold the phone. If you're going to trade Ukraine against Russia.

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<v Speaker 3>Where do we sit with North America? I mean where

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<v Speaker 3>do we sit? I mean, who do we not call

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<v Speaker 3>a friend if you're going to turn around and do

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<v Speaker 3>that to Europe.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, I mean, you're obviously very plugged into geopolitical tensions

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<v Speaker 1>because it's part of what affects your business as well.

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<v Speaker 1>When you're thinking about global climate solutions, and you gave

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<v Speaker 1>us some of the outlines of your plan there as well.

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<v Speaker 1>There's some people that are going to think it's highly

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<v Speaker 1>ironic that a mining company would be looking at a

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<v Speaker 1>green transition. I agree with them. What you know, green

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<v Speaker 1>iron or what is that is? That is? Do these

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<v Speaker 1>things really make a difference when it comes to the

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<v Speaker 1>bottom line of limiting climate change.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's start with three million tons of carbon docks, so

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not going out in the atmosphere. I mean, let's

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<v Speaker 3>just start there and then and then let's realize that

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<v Speaker 3>no one say ever going to make green iron or

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<v Speaker 3>green steel, which is ten percent of the carbon budget.

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<v Speaker 3>Now we're talking huge unless you start with green iron

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<v Speaker 3>or so the fact we're going to green iron or

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<v Speaker 3>within a few years means that we can then go

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<v Speaker 3>to green iron or green steel. Now that's starting to

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<v Speaker 3>have a massive impact because we do that economically, Then

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<v Speaker 3>the pollution which has currently suffered all over the world,

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<v Speaker 3>particularly in China, where they put their steel mills on

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<v Speaker 3>the outskirts of their cities central plan, but their cities

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<v Speaker 3>grew so much bigger. So now the steel mills inside

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<v Speaker 3>the city, we send them totally pollution free metal. Their

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<v Speaker 3>pollution problem goes out the window, so that there is

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<v Speaker 3>a really big impact on this slow lethargic backward industry

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<v Speaker 3>called mining, ironically leading the world to go green, and

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<v Speaker 3>it's hitting where the pollution is worst. And it's not saying, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 3>we've got to continue burning all in gas because there's

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<v Speaker 3>such lovely people and we have to look after and

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<v Speaker 3>we're saying, actually, oil and gas has got us into

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<v Speaker 3>this manure. We've got to stop doing what we've always

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<v Speaker 3>done if we want a different result, and switch off

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<v Speaker 3>the oil and gas, and then we'll get a different result.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's like green steel, that's like green shipping.

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<v Speaker 2>Now exactly though, is green iron ore? And what does

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<v Speaker 2>it cost versus other iron ore? And is a competitive.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's going to cost less.

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<v Speaker 3>Man, it's because we can make it for less, because

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<v Speaker 3>we're not chopping through a billion a billion leaders of

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<v Speaker 3>diel like nearly five hundred million gallons of diesel. We're

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<v Speaker 3>not going to buy anymore, you know, because we're making

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<v Speaker 3>it ourselves.

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<v Speaker 2>So is it cost competitive already?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Hell yeah, yeah yeah, that's the beauty of it, which

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<v Speaker 3>is why I'm saying, listen, stop looking at gying green,

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<v Speaker 3>stop looking at zero missions as Oh, you're a really

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<v Speaker 3>nice guy. What a lovely chief executive, What a lovely

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<v Speaker 3>politician thinking of the kids, not himself. Actually, get out

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<v Speaker 3>of your hole. This is a great investment. You should

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<v Speaker 3>be doing this for your shareholders. And if you say

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<v Speaker 3>you can't go green, well you're right, get off the

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<v Speaker 3>stage and let on someone smarter who can.

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<v Speaker 1>But why isn't everyone doing it? If the case is

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<v Speaker 1>that simple, and done it sooner?

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<v Speaker 3>Because everything starts somewhere, right, everything starts somewhere. I'm in

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<v Speaker 3>the suit, you're you're getting started with a thread, mate,

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<v Speaker 3>It turned out to be a suit, So we're the thread.

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<v Speaker 1>Talking about the conversations you're having here in New York

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<v Speaker 1>as well. Are people getting the message? People are getting

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<v Speaker 1>the message?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, we look at the pullback on

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<v Speaker 1>green agenda and so many parts of the world at

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<v Speaker 1>the moment we see it reflected and polling and election results.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that playing. That's an opportunity for US. Okay, that's

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<v Speaker 3>a serious opportunity. I mean, we are pushing head going

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<v Speaker 3>green as quickly as possible. We've got technology which can

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<v Speaker 3>take the water in here side a steirly water bottle,

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<v Speaker 3>turn it into the most powerful fuel the Wall's ever had,

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<v Speaker 3>which is hydrogen. When we turn it from gas liquid

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<v Speaker 3>to really serious energy except stack to water. And we're

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<v Speaker 3>working out how to produce that. It's not pure we

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<v Speaker 3>call it industrial hydgen, but.

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<v Speaker 1>A fraction of the cost.

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<v Speaker 3>Where we've worked out already how to charge cars not

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<v Speaker 3>in twenty two hours or even eight hours, but in

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<v Speaker 3>twenty two seconds, okay, And these are the fastest electric

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<v Speaker 3>cars in the world, like Formulae winners all the time.

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<v Speaker 3>We've worked out how to charge our huge trucks in

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<v Speaker 3>twenty four minutes. And I've had your US general say

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<v Speaker 3>to me, hey, hey, you understand the US military can

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<v Speaker 3>never go grannis it. Why mate, They said, well, our

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<v Speaker 3>tanks they're fifty sixty tons and they've got to go

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<v Speaker 3>fifty mile an hour. And I said, well, hang on, mate,

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<v Speaker 3>our trucks are four hundred tons and they've got to

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<v Speaker 3>go sixty mile an out they're green. And they've said, well,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, shipping shipping our warships. Our warships are like

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<v Speaker 3>one hundred meters long. Andrew I said, honestly, mate, we

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<v Speaker 3>could put three your warships on the back of our

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<v Speaker 3>iinor carriers. They're three hundred and thirty meters long, and

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<v Speaker 3>we're sending them green so everyone can go green.

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<v Speaker 2>I am curious if you guys are going to be

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<v Speaker 2>also building wind farms, solar forums right next farms excuse me,

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<v Speaker 2>right next to some of your minds to help supply

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<v Speaker 2>green power, Like, what's is that part of the process.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it is. It is absolutely and will supply power

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<v Speaker 3>us and powder to others. Right now, we're operating a

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<v Speaker 3>green grid. It's the first fully independent green grid in

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<v Speaker 3>the world. It will be the largest, of course, because

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<v Speaker 3>it'll be producing enough power the size of small countries

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<v Speaker 3>and it'll be a full grid, but it'll be off

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<v Speaker 3>the standard grid and that means that we can put

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<v Speaker 3>this all.

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<v Speaker 1>Over the world. I want to come back to hydrogen

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<v Speaker 1>because it's it's been talked about from years, has been

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of money put behind us, yet to yield results.

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<v Speaker 1>Where are the obstacles there? How far away is it

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<v Speaker 1>from being something that's going to be widespread, available, and

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<v Speaker 1>more heavily used as an energy for them?

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, the only thing stopping the production of green heighten

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<v Speaker 3>North America. I mean, let's just remember that there's more

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<v Speaker 3>people employed in the renewable energy sector in the fossil

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<v Speaker 3>fuel old state of Texas than there are now is

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<v Speaker 3>by fossil fuel. So everything is changing. What we're seeing

0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:28.480
<v Speaker 3>now is the whole growth, this massive growth of green

0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.080
<v Speaker 3>heighten green energy being held up by perfect getting in

0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.439
<v Speaker 3>the road of the good in the IRA. And if

0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.959
<v Speaker 3>we don't fix what a little thing called forty five V,

0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.240
<v Speaker 3>which is where the fossil fuel sector's got these environmental

0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.000
<v Speaker 3>independent lobbyists to say, hey, look we should have things

0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.520
<v Speaker 3>like ali matching. Well, okay, that's perfect.

0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:50.360
<v Speaker 1>Parts of your own industry are working against this.

0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, but it's not my industry. It's the

0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.760
<v Speaker 3>environmental lobby is paid ball by fossil fuel. It's the

0:10:56.800 --> 0:11:01.720
<v Speaker 3>same same draw card, same playble as tobacco used. They

0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.800
<v Speaker 3>get so called scientists and to say tobacco doesn't kill you, mate, So.

0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:06.760
<v Speaker 2>It's money again, it's politics. And it's lobby.

0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and we have to Carol, we have to look

0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.120
<v Speaker 3>straight through that and say to your legislators and your legislators,

0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:13.640
<v Speaker 3>I've got to say, actually, we're not going to let

0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.640
<v Speaker 3>perfect kill off the good when no green hydrant.

0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:17.079
<v Speaker 1>Is the answer.

0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:22.400
<v Speaker 3>We will have weekly month matching or monthly matching. But

0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.199
<v Speaker 3>hourly matching just means the person who came up with

0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:27.800
<v Speaker 3>that's never driven or operated anything more complex than a

0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:31.560
<v Speaker 3>bloody computer, not these one two three mile long plants

0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:31.959
<v Speaker 3>which I.

0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:32.480
<v Speaker 1>Have to operate.

0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:35.400
<v Speaker 2>So thirty seconds left? Are you more optimistic after your

0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:37.520
<v Speaker 2>time here in New York and talking with global leaders

0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:41.360
<v Speaker 2>North American leaders, US leaders? Are you more pessimistic? Just quickly?

0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:43.040
<v Speaker 1>No, I'm more optimistic.

0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:47.480
<v Speaker 3>I'm more optimist because they trust what someone does more

0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.800
<v Speaker 3>than what someone says, and they can see we're doing it.

0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:54.880
<v Speaker 3>They can see Australia's high sharehold return company ever is

0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:56.839
<v Speaker 3>going fully green, and there's got to be a reason

0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.840
<v Speaker 3>for that. And they're making huge sales and they're profitable.

0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:01.440
<v Speaker 2>We wanted to be smart and fun when you came in.

0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.599
<v Speaker 1>Did we do it? Yeah? You're smart and fun. I

0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:05.480
<v Speaker 1>love such pressure.

0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Andrew Forrest, thank you so much Executive chair of course

0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:11.280
<v Speaker 2>at Ford ske you joining us right here on Bloomberg

0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:11.840
<v Speaker 2>BusinessWeek