WEBVTT - 5/6/26: Shark Tank Host Faces Data Center Backlash, Nick Shirley Visists Cuba, Trump Attacks Disloyal MAGA, 2026 Dire Job Market 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:01.599 Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here. 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:05.240 Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.840 and we are so excited about what that means for 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:08.760 the future of the show. 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:10.719 This is the only place where you can find honest 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.239 perspectives from the left and the right that simply does 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:14.640 not exist anywhere else. 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.080 So if that is something that's important to you, please 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.599 go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:22.800 you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:25.600 and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:27.560 We need your help to build the future of independent 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:29.920 news media, and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:33.760 dot com. 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:37.040 One of the biggest data center projects, this one in 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:41.160 Utah that you can possibly imagine, is moving forward. Listen, 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:47.560 sixty two square miles of desert getting carved up for 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:52.040 you know, I guess to jack up your electricity bills. 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:54.920 And use more power than the entire state of Utah. 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:58.200 It's like sixty two square miles and getting a tax 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:03.120 break of humming data center. Like, good, look look at 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:04.600 that thing. I don't even I don't even know what 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:05.400 to say about that. 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:12.040 Look at look at that beautiful, beautiful so chunk of land. 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:14.959 Locals out there looked at it, and we're like, uh yeah, 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:18.800 don't think I don't think we want this either, did 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:20.720 not seem to matter. Let's roll a little bit of 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:22.480 uh C two here. 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:25.120 All of this as well. 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:27.480 Then why won't they let people talk? 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:31.319 Why won't. 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:32.560 This is not real information? 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:35.360 And we sitting here like it's okay, it's a charaine, 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:36.840 it's a charaine. 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:37.440 It's full. 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:53.920 So despite this kind of outpouring of opposition, the project 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:57.920 is continuing to move forward. Also, environmental concerns being spelled 0:01:57.960 --> 0:01:59.640 out roll C three here. 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.480 How are you upsetting the how are you offsetting these 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:03.560 environmental concerns? 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:08.800 Well, I'm actually the only developer of data centers on 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:12.760 Earth that graduated from environmental studies, so I'm pretty aware 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:17.320 of what these concerns are. They are around air, water use, heat, 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:24.000 noise pollution. So sustainability is at the heart of what 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:27.320 we do in terms of all these proposals, not just Utah. 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.040 We have ten thousand acres in Alberta, Canada with the 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.760 same concerns, and so we search for the best technology. 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.320 There's many air cooled turbines now, so you're blending in 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:41.400 air cooled versus water. There's so many different ways to 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.240 generate power. We can also put a percentage of the 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.520 power generation through solar, wind and batteries because the battery 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:51.720 technology is ten x more efficient than it was just 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.760 five years ago. So that's very helpful because it makes 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.760 the cost of energy lower. So no one, you know, 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:01.359 if you're environmentalists, then you don't care about that stuff. 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:03.760 Of course you protest, and that's what happens. 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:04.200 I noted. 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:08.320 You know what's happening in Utah right now is we 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:11.520 think over ninety percent of the protesters are actually not 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:13.919 people that live in Utah or box Elter County. 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.399 They're being busted in Oh goodness. 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:18.120 Yeah, I don't know what I think of this new 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:21.960 trend of even like the data center guy. 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.960 Kevin O'Leary of jud Tank and Party Supreme. 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:26.000 Like doing the car thing. 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:30.400 I mean, nobody trusts you if you like have overprocessed 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.440 videos now and they've discovered that three very commercials, not 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:35.320 in this case, but like have you started to see 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:37.280 some commercials that are filmed like they're on a phone. 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:38.240 It's really something. 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.960 So unless you're like Kyle Kolinsky coming back from the 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.119 golf course with Crystal nobody wants to hear. 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:45.400 Nobody trusts you. 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:50.280 Nobody trusty Crystal en Route, nobody trusts your take. Of course, 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:55.040 all this is propped up by an inflated bubble put 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.360 up CE five here. Bloomberg has a nice little graphic 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:02.480 this is crazy, tries to explain how how the money 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.600 is flowing through here and to help us walk, to 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:08.400 help us walk through this. Lucky enough to be joined 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:12.120 by Rohit Choper, who's the former director of the Consumer 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:17.720 Financial Protection Board, also a former FTC commissioner. What's your 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:20.600 what's your current gig? Now that Trump threw you out 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:22.839 of this CFPB because I don't want to, we don't 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:24.960 want to just do formers. Row Hit, welcome to show. 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:26.159 What are you up to now? 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:31.880 Well, I'm helping out our state attorneys general actually prosecute 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:36.240 some of this wrongdoing that the federal agencies are just 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:40.159 watching as crime is committed all over the country. 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:40.559 Excellent. 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:42.599 It would have been really funnyhead if your answer was 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:46.000 I'm I'm spearheading massive data center construction. 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:47.000 Data center consulting. 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:47.840 No. 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.720 Rowhit is one of the people that keeps corporate America 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:55.640 up at night. The the foul language that people like 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:59.280 Jamie Diamond have had for Rowhead. I think speaks speaks 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:04.440 to speaks quite well to him and to the analysis 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:08.559 that he's able to give here. So, first of all, 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:13.800 this Utah Data Center project, am I an idiot? Like? 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:16.080 Why are they putting these things out in the desert? 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:20.160 First of all? When the big problem is overheating? Am 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:21.359 I the first person to think of that? 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:28.280 Well, here's what we're seeing across the country, massive actually 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:33.040 competition from all of these states and localities to hand 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:37.880 out tax breaks in order to subsidize these very massive 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:42.360 real estate developments. And I think you're seeing an unending 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:47.800 thirst for power when it comes to keeping going this 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:52.719 AI machine. There is even analysis from Goldman Sachs that 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:57.400 is suggesting that AI is contributing to all sorts of 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:01.400 increased consumer prices, whether it is the increased cost of 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:05.560 electricity that some people believe is a result the increased 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:09.640 demand for electronic equipment and chips, as well as a 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:13.920 whole other set of costs. So you're starting to see 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:18.279 a lot of pushback, especially because some of the traditional 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:23.400 arguments for subsidizing these developments, like creating lots of jobs, 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:29.000 aren't necessarily materializing. Well, it takes people to construct these 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:32.479 data centers. If you walk through some of them, you'll 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:35.000 see there's very few people working at them. 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.000 Have you done that before you've walked through the data centers. 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:43.520 I've seen a data center. I've seen it's actually it's 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:47.400 quite extraordinary in some ways to see the sheer volume 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:51.320 of electronic equipment, the need to cool some of this, 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:54.279 and the need to just kind of keep it going 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:57.600 twenty four hours a day. And I think we forget 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.840 that every time we are opening an app or streaming 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:06.560 a show that is really resting on those behemoth data centers. 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:12.000 So on that point Trump takes office, CFPB, you're gone. 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.600 CFPB is now a shell of its former self. Basically 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.920 was doged, which was a plan of the conservative movement 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.400 long before Doge, of course, But one of the things 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:24.080 that you were doing, and correct me if I'm wrong, 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.800 at the CFPP was starting to pay really close attention 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:31.680 to the consumer effects of cryptocurrency. And I think one 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:35.480 of the reasons cryptocurrency and just financialization and the like. 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:37.960 And I think one of the reasons that people are 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:41.640 so mad about what started to happen with the data 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.640 centers is that they look around and they say, for what, 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.680 what is all of this? All of this is war schemes, 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.640 whether it's I mean, crypto isn't directly related to this, 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:53.520 or maybe it is, correct me if I'm wrong, but 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:56.480 like it's all to that Bloomberg piece we just we 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.480 just had up on the screen. It's all like Microsoft 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.520 funding in Nvidia to fund Microsoft, like it's all it 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:06.280 all feels fake to people. It all feels like it's 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.000 for the sake of people who are going to be 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.200 fine no matter what, just like what happened in the 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.280 Great Recession. They are going to survive, many of them 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:16.280 are going to survive. Average people are going to be 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:18.880 screwed once again. And so some of it I think 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:21.920 just comes from this anger about what's building up, the 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:23.880 froth that's building up in the economy. 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:26.760 Yeah, you know, there's a concept that we talk about 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.120 on Wall Street. It was I think coined by a 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:33.760 Bloomberg journalist, number go up, which is really this push 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:38.400 no matter what type of asset you're referring to, they 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:39.559 want the number. 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.320 To go up. And we have seen it in the data. 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:47.640 The top one percent of Americans now own over fifty 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:52.040 percent of the stock market and mutual fund assets in 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:55.080 the US. And if you look at the portion of 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.600 what we refer to as the Magnificent Seven, those big 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:03.720 tech companies, Nvidia and others, they are a larger and 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:09.240 larger and larger share of the overall stock market. So 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.520 we're in a situation now, and I'll tell you something. 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:19.480 Just in one quarter recently, just baby boomers saw their 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:23.960 wealth increase by a trillion dollars and this is due 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.320 to some of these stock market gains. So we're in 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:31.280 a situation where the economy is now in some ways 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:36.640 resting on these big asset prices, and many people are 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:42.920 wondering are these asset prices really real? You mention what's 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.560 called circularity. This is where a. 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.280 Group up while you're talking people. 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:55.360 Yeah, these group of companies are really kind of all 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.040 in deals with each other. Some of it is related 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.960 to services like cloud, some of it is related to chips, 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.040 the things that you know in video makes. Some of 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:09.160 it is actually investment. So there is really this web 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.920 and honestly, this Bloomberg graphic doesn't even begin to show 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:17.200 some of it. You are seeing that in some cases 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:25.160 an enormous part of even the cloud infrastructure is increasingly 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:30.840 being paid between these companies. And what's interesting is that 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:35.680 it is not necessarily they're paying cash. They're entering into 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:40.200 deals financing and equity deals that are really tying some 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:41.520 of these firms together. 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:43.680 So we don't really know. 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:50.120 Is this a situation where if one problem occurs, will 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.560 it have a ripple effect? I think earlier you mentioned 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:57.920 what happened in the financial crisis, the regulators had no 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:03.600 clue about the linkages between the big banks between some 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:09.200 of these credit default swaps insurance companies like AIG, and 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.800 the result was a mess. And I think we're starting 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:16.880 to worry that maybe there isn't a big problem here. 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:21.280 But is anyone really looking because it seems like most 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.840 of the regulators in Washington are worshiping at these companies 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:30.199 alters rather than actually kicking the tires to see if 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:31.920 there's a bigger issue on our hands. 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.800 And so, what happens if the revenue expectations of an 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:42.000 open AI or an anthropic start to not meet? Like well, we're. 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:43.280 Already seeing signs of this. 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:49.920 Open AI I think has delayed its timeline for a 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:53.839 IPO where they go public anthropics. 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:55.880 I think we still don't have a. 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:59.480 Firm timeline on it, and many analysts believe this is 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.600 because us open AI is not showing the level of 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.680 revenue that the street expects. 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:10.800 So this is the worry. 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.920 You have a set of companies that are an overwhelming 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.360 share now of the stock market, over a third of 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:21.160 the stock market, and you have all that wealth really 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:25.440 concentrated at the upper echelons of the economy, and they 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:29.920 are driving those wealthy individuals are driving a huge amount 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:34.800 of spending. If we start seeing the stock market values 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:39.760 of these companies go down, will they all face a correction? 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.720 And what will the ripple effect be through the economy. 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.280 I think that's really what a lot of people, both 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:49.079 on Wall Street and who follow the economy closely, are 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:50.920 really really curious about. 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.160 And if we could talk a bit about the consumer 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.880 end of this rowhead, I'm curious, you know, some of 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.320 the stuff you all were doing at the CFPB to 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:04.560 stealman the conservative argument it was you didn't need the CFPB. 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.679 The CFPB could sort of be folded into other agencies 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.600 that already existed. So if we take that seriously for 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.760 a moment, I'm curious if you believe that some of 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:21.599 those responsibilities have adequately been folded into other oversight bodies 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.200 and what risk. I'm assuming you're gonna say, no, what risk? 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:31.080 Then consumers find themselves in with a basically empty CFPB 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:35.160 and some of this real economic change happening kind of 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:37.000 under everybody's noses right now. 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:39.079 Well, let's look at the proof. 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:45.760 While I was in office, and even before, the CFPB 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:50.920 was regularly returning billions of dollars. I think on average 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:55.440 it was over three billion dollars a year, and really 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.080 some serious fraud. 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:01.240 I think we've basically seen zero. 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:04.520 I don't I can't even tell you when the last 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.160 time they took an action. It has mostly been to 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.559 gut the place. So I think the arguments that someone 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.360 else would do it just haven't held up. Here's the thing, 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:19.480 Emily that I think we've got to really think hard about. 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:25.240 It's one thing about, you know, going after fraud, returning. 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:25.720 Money to people. 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:31.640 The big, big work is often preventing the next meltdown 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:35.640 or crisis. Had there had been I think some real 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:40.320 scrutiny of subprime mortgages, we wouldn't have gotten into the big, 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:44.240 gigantic mess from two thousand and eight that honestly, we 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:48.720 are still feeling aspects of today, both politically and economically, 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:50.720 including in our housing costs. 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:52.920 But I really wonder. 0:14:54.080 --> 0:15:01.440 These alphabet soup agencies are they asking any question, are 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:05.640 they actually looking at anything, or are they simply just 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:11.800 doing deals to scratch the backs of political supporters. We're 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.080 seeing this at the FTC when it comes to mergers, 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:20.000 waving mergers through where there is a politically connected lobbyist 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.560 and going hard on firms that might be enemies of 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.480 the administration. And what I say to all my conservative 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:32.840 friends is that I really thought you guys didn't want 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:38.360 the government picking winners and losers. That is really how 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:43.480 Russia and China often work. I thought we were about 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:50.920 letting people build and create and not just deciding and 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:56.160 crowning corporate royalty. I'm worried we're shifting toward that. And 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.800 let's see if there is a broad spectrum of people 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:04.360 across the ideological spectrum who just say no and we're. 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:05.080 Tired of it. 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.520 Yeah, I'm picking a lot of tech companies those winners 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:08.720 in particular. 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.920 And Rohitchroper I also wanted to ask you uh to 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.120 kind of unpack for us a little bit this this 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:18.120 fight that's going on between Wall Street banks on the 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.360 one hand and crypto companies on the other hand that 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:25.720 seem to be attempting to act like banks. They want to. 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:27.720 It looks like they want to start taking deposits and 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:32.840 paying interest on deposits, but without being kind of regulated 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.160 as as banks, which you know, the nice thing that 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.160 we got out of the Great Depression was the fdi 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.160 C and you put you put your money into a bank, 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.480 and if the bank goes under. As Americans, we're not 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.200 actually worried that we're not that we're going to lose 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.920 our deposits, and so therefore we don't rush and we 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.560 don't create runs on those those banks. So Tom Tillis, 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:55.160 I maybe we can add this and pose with Tom 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.600 Tillis and Angela also Brooks, the Tom Till's Republican from 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:03.600 North Carolina, also Brooks Democrat from Maryland, putting together a 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:07.359 proposal that they thought had reached some type of compromise 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:11.399 between coinbase and the crypto world and Wall Street. But 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:13.520 that seems to have kind of unraveled a little bit. 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.280 So can you unpack for us, like what are these 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.720 what are the different camps arguing for? And I wonder 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:22.800 so Coinbase just laid off what fourteen percent of its 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.920 of its staff, and I wonder if they were waiting 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.879 to kind of reach a deal and then and then 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.080 went for this massive layoff. Setting that aside, What what 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:35.040 is this fight over? 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:36.320 Yeah? 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:40.840 So look, Ryan, you know I'm not some kind of 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.959 unvarnished cheerleader for banks. I think we got to scrutinize 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.800 them carefully. But let's be honest. We do need banks 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.680 in our society. We need a place where we can 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.600 pull our deposits and that we can get loans on 0:17:56.640 --> 0:18:01.120 everything from building factories or starting a dry crew or pizzeria. 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:06.560 That's what banks do. The banks are arguing that the 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:10.760 crypto companies that are wanting to start these crypto dollars 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.320 or stable coins they call it, that they're going to 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:19.320 put money in those coins, and that it is going 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:24.119 to drain the banks of deposits who they would otherwise 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.520 use to lend. And so what the battle is about 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:33.679 here is can those stable coin companies or crypto dollars, 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:39.320 can they pay interest on the deposit. The argument if 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.480 they pay interest, there will be lots of flight from 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:48.000 banks to those stable coin issuers. And the argument from 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.400 the stable coin issuers. Is that the banks they can 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:57.320 just compete and raise their interest rates too. So this 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.480 sounds actually like it's a debate about it's really not. 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.960 It's really a debate about what is the future of 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:09.960 our banking system. Is our banking system going to be 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:15.200 one where we put money in deposits and that leads 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.240 to lending, but we can always get our money back, 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.720 as you said, Ryan, or we going to have something 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:27.359 a little bit different. I really worry that this is 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:33.760 not becoming a debate about farm lending and mortgage lending 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:38.920 and national security and sanctions. Instead it seems a little 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:43.160 bit more about a fight that's just jocking between two 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.880 big industries shooting. 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:46.160 At each other. 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.040 But the truth is is that if you look at 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.479 as what is happening about, big questions about the future 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:57.719 of the dollar trade, the financial system, the future of 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:01.040 the FED, these are all linked, and you just don't 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.080 see a lot of coverage about this. So we got 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:07.000 to all get smart and make sure this is not 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.439 just a lobbying frenzy between industries, but we're choosing what 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:12.840 is right for America. 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.640 So what does the world look like if we're doing 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:18.040 crypto dollars instead of. 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:21.719 Dollars, and the stable coin push from the Trump administration, 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:23.960 which is enriching to them as well. By the way, 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.719 but remember when with the tariff, Trump's what Trump what 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:29.760 brought him from the brink was the bond market's getting 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:31.960 quote a little yippy. And I don't think anybody totally 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.439 understands what they're trying to do with the dollar in 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:35.240 the long term. 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:39.520 Well, here's really one of the best cases they're trying 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:43.920 to make is that by issuing these stable coins, they're 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:49.600 going to attract more demand for dollars, and therefore that 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:54.000 will mean more purchases of US treasuries, which will then 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:59.040 make our debt cheaper. I really I wrote a piece 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:04.000 last year that really questions some of that assumption, because 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.920 I do think a lot of the funds that will 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:14.040 power these stable coins will actually just come from US 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:18.320 consumers and businesses. When I send a Venmo or a 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:22.520 cash app, I'm not thinking about is it in a 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:25.080 stable coin, is it in a bank deposit. I just 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:28.159 expect it to work. This is not going to be 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:32.200 so clear to consumers, and I want to make sure 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:36.760 that if something went down, if there is a crisis, 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:40.520 that people will not panic and that they will be 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:44.520 able to get their money back. That is something that 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.840 is so key for confidence in our economy. And I 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:51.159 would hate to see those who really live paycheck to 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:54.640 paycheck all of a sudden, or a small business all 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:59.359 of a sudden lose everything because what their money, that 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:01.120 their money is not really stable. 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:02.280 We're so cooked. 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:05.760 No, no, no, it's not, we're cook We just got 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:08.639 to get smarter and we got to get our voices 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:12.760 in the arena. And we can't just be passive observers. 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:15.760 Yeah, who are the smartest, Who are the people on 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:18.359 the right side of this, Who are actually who actually 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:19.280 get it? In Congress? 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:22.320 Now, well, you know what's funny is I think actually 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:26.680 a lot of them do get it, but many are 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:30.240 worried about what they can say out loud. I think 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:35.240 they see huge lobbying interests on those companies. Yeah, and 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:40.280 I think that is something that is something that politicians, 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:44.439 you know, we want them to all be courageous to 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:48.040 do the right thing, but we know the power of 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:52.960 these big arsenals of lobbying money. We're seeing it in 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:57.280 AI as well, where the AI you know, companies are 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:03.280 forming lobbies to really destroy any state legislator or local 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:08.280 politician who is even speaking up against data centers or 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:12.119 trying to put some basic protections on the books. So 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:15.960 this is why we can't just we can't just observe. 0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:18.360 We gotta we gotta be in on it. 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:22.159 Rohit Chopra, thanks so much for joining us. Former director 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:26.159 of the CFP, PB, former chairman or former commissioner on 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:28.840 the FTC. Much appreciated. 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:30.159 Thanks raving. 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:36.639 The conservative movements. Woodward and Bernstein turned up in Havana, 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:42.840 both of them. Takes two to match the wits one. 0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:47.800 Nick Shirley. Nick Shirley, however, running into a little running 0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:50.600 into a few problems in Havanah. Here he is from 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:57.280 a sanctioned Havana hotel. I think through sheer ignorance, Nick 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:02.160 Shirley is confronting the absurd of American sanctions by staying 0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:04.359 in a hotel. He is definitely not allowed to be 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:09.200 staying in. So critical support to comrade surely here who 0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:14.520 is facing difficult circumstances. Let's roll this video that Nick 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:17.879 Shirley actually produced. This is not AI or made up 0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:20.119 or anything. Let's roll some Nick Shirley. 0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:26.719 All right, Depending when this comes out or if it 0:24:26.760 --> 0:24:33.879 does We are currently being telled by Cuban intelligence here 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:35.040