1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry, and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Tracy. When 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: we were in Italy, the Vatican museums blew my tiny mind. Yeah. Uh. 5 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: We saw so much stuff, and we saw the tiniest 6 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: sliver of what they actually have there, which was in 7 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: and of itself kind of mind blowing. I saw things 8 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: I did not realize the Vatican would have collected, including 9 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: an entire room of chagles, which is not what we're 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: talking about today, but is indicative of the breadth of 11 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,959 Speaker 1: their collection. But there were a lot of things that 12 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: I was just instantly fascinated by, and some I just 13 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: fell in love with, and others that I just couldn't 14 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: stop thinking about. And one of those was the kind 15 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: of casual way that our tour guide there, and Tracy 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: and I were in two different groups. Um, the casual 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: way that my tour guide, Alexandra mentioned the lost Arm 18 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: of Laocoon, and that's a story the super up my alley. 19 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: But I had never heard about it in any art 20 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: history class, despite having taken a number of them. Yeah, 21 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: I don't remember if our tour guide told us this story. 22 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: I do have multiple photos of this sculpture in my 23 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: pictures from when we were there, but like, there was 24 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: just so much I don't remember if we talked about 25 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: this in our group. We definitely did because I was like, um. 26 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: But the other thing I want to mention before we 27 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: start is pronunciation, because if you look up how to 28 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: pronounce this on a site like four vo or on 29 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: YouTube where people are talking about it, uh, boy, will 30 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: you hear a whole lot of different versions. I did 31 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: this morning when I was like, I'm always better when 32 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: I hear people say it. Oh, I've heard people say 33 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: it four different ways, so many different ways. I don't 34 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: know what to do with this. So um, yeah, there 35 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: are some people will say it Leo Cohen almost like 36 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: with harder pronunciation of all of the all of the 37 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: vowels and consonants. Um are wonderful. Tour guide pronounced it 38 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: more like lao kun, which is what a lot of 39 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: Europeans seemed to pronounce it like. So that's what we're 40 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: going with. UM. I also want to give a quick 41 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: warning there is a very sad beat towards the end 42 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: of this episode. Involving the holocausts. I just want to 43 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: give you a heads up because it does kind of 44 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: come out of nowhere um. But most importantly, we're talking 45 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: about the whole story of this work of art, which 46 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: is known as lao Kun and his Sons. It has 47 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: been on quite a journey. The legend that inspired it 48 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: is quite fun as well, and that is where we're 49 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,119 Speaker 1: going to begin. So, yes, we're going to begin with 50 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: who Alcun was in terms of Greek legend, and there 51 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: are multiple versions of this story depending on who's the 52 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: one telling it. He's pretty much always described as a 53 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: trojan and as a priest, often as a priest of Apollo, 54 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: but sometimes as a priest of Poseidon. Yes, there I 55 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: I out was very tempted to start trying to make 56 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: a branching chart of his story and where it varies, 57 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: because some will be the same up to a certain 58 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: point and then they branch in different ways. They have 59 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: some commonalities. Laocoon's story always involves some action that angers 60 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: the gods, although this gets a little bit muddled at times. 61 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: In some versions. He brought the wrath of Apollo by 62 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: breaking an oath of celibacy that he took as a priest, 63 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: but even this is characterized a little bit differently depending 64 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: on the source. The evidence of his breaking of the 65 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: vow is sometimes simply the arrival of two sons, Antipas 66 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: and tim Is, but the story is sometimes told with 67 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: a little bit more of a salacious tone, with Laocoon 68 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,119 Speaker 1: actually having sex with his wife in the sanctuary of Apollo. 69 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: There is yet another version where it is Posiden whose 70 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: temple is desecrated. So, according to those variations in the story, 71 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: either Apollo or Athena punished Laocoon for his sexual exploits 72 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: by setting serpents on him, and these serpents crush Laocoon's 73 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: twin sons. One interpretation of this story is mentioned in 74 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: footnotes of an article by S. B. Tracy, and this 75 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: article is titled Laocoon's Guilt. It appeared in the American 76 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: Journal of Philology in and this interpretation is that all 77 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: of this serves as part of an ongoing perception of 78 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: Troy and its people as being known for their sexual misbehavior. Yeah, 79 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: it kind of gets set up as though this was 80 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: perhaps propaganda that supported these negative ideas about people from 81 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: Troy at the time when this legend was being formed, 82 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: but there is actually a much more popular and far 83 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: more common story that involves Laocoon, the serpents, and the 84 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: Sun's although the circumstances that lead to Laocoon's punishment by 85 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: the gods are very very different. That version is the 86 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: one that's told by the Roman poet Virgil, who lived 87 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: in the first century BC and into the beginning of 88 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: the Common Era. In Virgil's Aneed Laocun is the only 89 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: person in Troy who sees that the horse sent by 90 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: the Greeks, that's the one we know as the Trojan horse, 91 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 1: sees that as actually a sneak attack, and the Anied 92 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: Laocun is recorded as saying, quote, oh, unhappy citizens, what madness? 93 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: Do you think the enemies sailed away? Or do you 94 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: think any Greek's gift free of treachery? Is that Ulysses 95 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: or Odysseus's reputation. Either there are Greeks and hiding concealed 96 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: by the wood, or it's been built as a sheen 97 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: to use against our walls, or spy on our homes, 98 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: or fall on the city from above, or it hides 99 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: some other trick. Trojans don't trust this horse, whatever it is. 100 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: I'm afraid of Greeks, even those bearing gifts. I so 101 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: want a T shirt now that just this Trojans don't 102 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:24,679 Speaker 1: trust this horse. Yeah, I love it. According to Virgil, 103 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: Laocoon's warning brought the wrath of the gods, because this 104 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: war that was going on between the Greeks and Troy 105 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: was a manifestation of their conflicts and desires. Athena and 106 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: Poseidon were said to have been on the side of 107 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: the Greeks and the Trojan war, so they did not 108 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: appreciate laocoon red flagging that horse. The priest Laocoon used 109 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: his spear at this point to pierce the side of 110 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: the horse, and then sacrificed a bull and offering to 111 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: the gods in the hopes of bringing favor and protection 112 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: to Troy. But instead of favor, what appeared were to 113 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: ven him as sea serpents. In Virgil's text, here's what 114 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: happened next quote. They move on a set course towards Laocoon, 115 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: and first each serpent entwines the slender bodies of his 116 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: two sons and biting at them, devours their wretched limbs. Then, 117 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: as he comes to their aid, weapons in hand, they 118 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: seize him too and wreathe him in massive coils, now 119 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: encircling his waist twice twice, winding their scaly folds around 120 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: his throat. Their high necks and heads tower above him. 121 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: He strains to burst the knots with his hands, his 122 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: sacred headband drenched in blood and dark venom, while he 123 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: sends terrible shouts up to the heavens, like the bellowing 124 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: of a bull that has fled wounded from the altar, 125 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: shaking the useless axe from its neck, certainly evocative. One 126 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: Slocoon was dead from this attack. The Trojans in the 127 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: uneeds seeing the serpent attack is a sign that he 128 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: had clearly been wrong x scepted the gift of the horse, 129 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: and then, of course, the Greeks were able, according to 130 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: the legend, to take the city from within. Regardless of 131 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: which specifics any reader may prefer regarding this whole Laocoon story, 132 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: the image of the priest and his son's being killed 133 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: by the serpents sent from the gods for mistakenly offending 134 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: said gods has long been a powerful one, and it 135 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: led to one of the most compelling statues in all 136 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: of history. So around the same time that Virgil wrote 137 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: his version of this story. According to art historians, someone 138 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:39,239 Speaker 1: carved a marble statue depicting Laocoon and his son's battling 139 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: with serpents. This is sometimes estimated as being created around 140 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: two hundred BC. That doesn't quite line up with the 141 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: time frames of the sculptors that are usually name checked 142 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: in relation to the sculpture. Plenty of the Elder, who 143 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: lived in the first century wrote of the statue sculpted 144 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: to commemorate the story in his The Natural History. He 145 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: attributes the work to three artists, who he mentions by name. Quote. 146 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: In the case of several works of very great excellence, 147 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: the number of artists that have been engaged upon them 148 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: has proved a considerable obstacle to the fame of each, 149 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: no individual being able to engross the whole of the credit, 150 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: and it being impossible to award it in due proportion 151 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: to the names of the several artists combined, such as 152 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: the case with the Laocoon, for example, in the Palace 153 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: of the Emperor Titus. A work that may be looked 154 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: upon as preferable to any other production of the art, 155 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: or painting, or of statuary. It is sculpted from a 156 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: single block both of the main figure, as well as 157 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: the children and the serpents with their marvelous folds. This 158 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: group was made in concert by three most eminent artists, Agissander, 159 00:09:54,200 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: Polydorus and Athenodorus, natives of Rhodes. This statue is incredibly dynamic. 160 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: Laocoon is shown with his body twisted as he wrestles 161 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: with the serpents, and he is flanked on each side 162 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: by his sons, who are also entangled in the serpent's bodies. 163 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: One of the serpents is about to bite Laocoon on 164 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: the hip. One of the children appears to be already 165 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: varying near death, the other still struggling free and watching 166 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: his brother and father in terror. Laocoon's face shows the 167 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: agony of the struggle, although there has been some debate 168 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: about his expression. We're going to talk about that later 169 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: in the episode. This is considered to be an iconic 170 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: artistic representation of agony, as well as an incredible achievement 171 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: in representing human anatomy. It's also pretty large. It's almost 172 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 1: life size. The dimensions are listed as a height of 173 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: two d eight centimeters, a width of a hundred and 174 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: sixty three centimeters, and a depth of a hundred and 175 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: twelve centimeters, so that is six point eight feets all, 176 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: five point three feet wide and three point seven ft deep. 177 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: But despite its great size and the level of admiration 178 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: that it garnered, and the fact that it was part 179 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: of the collection of the Emperor Titus, just as was 180 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 1: the case with so many other artifacts in the Roman Empire, 181 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: this statue of Laocoon and his son's disappeared basically without 182 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: any fanfare and with no record of its whereabouts. It 183 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: was gone for almost fourteen hundred years. So coming up, 184 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Laocoon's rediscovery, but first we 185 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: will pause for a sponsor break. On January fifteen o six, 186 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: vineyard owner Felicie de Fredis made a discovery while working 187 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: on his land on one of the seven hills of Rome, 188 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,359 Speaker 1: Escalin Hill. It was part of a group of sculptures 189 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: that was found on the site, something that happened with 190 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: a degree of regularity as Rome went through a growth 191 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: spurt starting in the fifteenth century. In this case, the 192 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: find was under the site that had been the baths 193 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: of Titus, a place known as Le Capoce, which means 194 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: the heads. It's about six fathoms that's thirty six feet underground. 195 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: The viticulturists find was communicated to the Vatican and Pope 196 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: Julius the Second immediately sent a team to investigate. Included 197 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 1: were Michelangelo and sculptor and architect Giuliano de Sangallo. So 198 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: for context in terms to Michelangelo's career, he had completed 199 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: The David two years before, and he would start his 200 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:37,479 Speaker 1: work on the Sistine Chapel two years later. Sangallo's son Francesco, 201 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: also went to the site, and in the late fifteen sixties, 202 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: which was sixty years after the find, he wrote about 203 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: being there when the statue was first discovered. Francesco wrote, quote, 204 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: the first time I was in Rome, when I was 205 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: very young. The Pope Julius the Second was told about 206 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: the discovery of some very beautiful statues in a vineyard 207 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: near Santa Maria Madio Are on the Escolan Hill. The 208 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: Pope ordered one of his officers to run and tell 209 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: Giuliano de Sangallo to go and see them. He set 210 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: off immediately, since Picolango Bunorati was always to be found 211 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: at our house. My father having summoned him and having 212 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: assigned him the commission of the Pope's tomb. My father 213 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: wanted him to come along too. I joined up with 214 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: my father, and off we went. I had climbed down 215 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: to where the statues were, when immediately my father said, 216 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: that is the laocoon, which Pliny mentions. Then they dug 217 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: the whole wider so that they could pull the statue out. 218 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: As soon as it was visible. Everyone started to draw, 219 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: all the while discoursing on ancient things, chatting about the 220 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: ones in Florence, the ones he references their ancient statues 221 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: owned by the Medici. Just a few weeks later, a 222 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: deal was struck between the Vatican and Fliegia. If Freddy's 223 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: in exchange for the statue, Freddis would receive as income 224 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: um the tolls from one of the gates of Rome's 225 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: that was the Porto San Giovanni. Shortly after that, the 226 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: statue was moved to the vatcan It was placed in 227 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: the Cortile del Belvedere, and its display position has since evolved. 228 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: With the establishment of the Museo Pio Clementino in the 229 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: seventeen seventies, it's in the gallery known as the Octagonal Courtyard. Yeah, 230 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: we'll talk a little bit more about how it got 231 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: moved around in a minute. The establishment of the Laocun 232 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: sculpture as a possession of the Vatican was and remains significant. 233 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: Pope Julius the Second put the artwork on public display, 234 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: which marks the opening of the Vatican Museums to the public. 235 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: Julius the second felt that it was important for people 236 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: to see this work of art because he saw looking 237 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: at great art as a means of spiritual renewal. Unsurprisingly, 238 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: the depiction of Laocun and his Son's was not intact. 239 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: When it was discovered there were pieces missing, most notably 240 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: the right arm of each of the figures. A Additionally, 241 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: the son on the right of the statue was detached 242 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: from the rest. Laocoon's missing arm in particular, left the 243 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: work feeling incomplete to enough people that after several years, 244 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: the Pope's architect Donato Bramante, who started working on the 245 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: Vatican's velvet or Court in fifteen o five and St. 246 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: Peter's Basilica in fifteen o six, pulled the most accomplished 247 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: sculptures of the day to see what they thought should 248 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: be done. This is sometimes described as a contest, and 249 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: I suppose it could have been but if it was, 250 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: it was pretty informal. This challenge was issued by Bramante 251 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: in Rafaelo Sanzio di Urbino, who was better known simply 252 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: as Raphael, suggested that the arms should extend upward, but 253 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: he wasn't even really in the mix. As far as 254 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: this competition. Bramante had made him the judge of the 255 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: whole thing. Jacopo d Antonio Sansovino also put forth a 256 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: plan for an upward reaching arm. Michelangelo had a different 257 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: idea that, based on the sculpt of the musculature of 258 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: the chest and back and shoulder, that the arm should 259 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: be bent back, as though Laokun was reaching to grasp 260 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: the serpent on his back, and the end sense of 261 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: Veno's idea one out, and the statue was restored with 262 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: an upraised arm. This was not a particularly surprising decision. 263 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: Michelangelo and Raphael were arrivals. They had an assortment of conflicts, 264 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: making opposite decisions from one another. Not too surprising. Yeah, 265 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: that's the gentlest way we can describe their relationship. Michelangelo 266 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: in particular, was very angry about a lot of opportunities 267 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: that Raphael received. The restoration of this sculpture, including not 268 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: just the arm, but several other pieces as well, was 269 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: completed in fifty Initially, the extension that they had decided 270 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: upon was used just so that copies could be cast 271 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: to the piece. It wasn't actually affixed to the sculpture 272 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: in any kind of permanent way. Then one of michelangelo students, 273 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: Shiovanni and al Montorloli, attached a version of the arm 274 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: for display that reached upward. That one actually reached upward 275 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: at a more um aggressive upward rise than even the 276 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: one that had had won this little discussion among the artists. 277 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: When it was done, the composition was undeniably eye catching. 278 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: It created a diagonal line that drew the viewer's eyes upward, 279 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: and it was viewed by a lot of people. It 280 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: was also drawn by a lot of people, and it 281 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: was lauded for its beauty with this new appendage and 282 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: the composition of it, although not universally, of course, it's art. 283 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: Everybody has a different opinion. So now we have to 284 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: jump ahead two d and fifty years basically to April 285 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: two seventy nine six, when Napoleon Bonaparte moved his forces 286 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: into Italy and an effort to confront Austrian troops there. 287 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: Although Napoleon's forces were not expected to fare very well 288 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: because they were outnumbered, Bonaparte was aggressive and managed to victory. 289 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: It was the first of many as he chased Austrian 290 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: forces through the country. He took a lot of Italian 291 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: territories in the process. That is, of course, the very 292 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: brief version of the story. But the important thing about 293 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: that conflict as it relates to Laocoon is the resulting 294 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: Treaty of Tolentino. This treaty, signed in February seventeven, was 295 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: the result of months of negotiations between the Papal States 296 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: and France, and in that treaty, France officially gained control 297 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: of many places it had occupied since the invasion, and 298 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: the Vatican officially and formally recognized France as the owner 299 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: of a number of works of art that had been 300 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: looted during all of this, including the Laocoon. So that's 301 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: how in July of sev the sculpture was shipped to Paris. 302 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: It was to go on display at the Museais Central Dessart, 303 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: now part of the Louver, and the sculpture stayed in 304 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: Paris for the next seventeen years. When Napoleon was defeated 305 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: at Waterloo in June of eighteen fifteen, that agreement was 306 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 1: voided and the art that had been signed over was 307 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: returned to Italy. The journey home to Rome started for 308 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: Laucoon and his son's in October of eighteen fifteen. It 309 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: took several months to get there. It arrived the following January. Yeah, 310 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: that was not the only piece of art that was 311 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: shipped back, but for the purposes of our story, it 312 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: is of course the most important. And once the sculpture 313 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: was back in Italy, it was assessed the previously completed 314 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 1: additions needed to be reattached. They had been removed before 315 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: the statue was shipped to Paris. The task felt a 316 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: sculptor Antonio Canova. He actually thought that the prior editions, 317 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: the upstretched arm and the arm that was also added 318 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: to the sun on the viewers right that son is 319 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 1: often referred to as the older son. Uh kind of 320 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: a thought those were not really correct. But he replaced 321 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: them according to the prior restoration. And he actually told 322 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: one of his colleagues in a letter that he knew 323 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: the decisions on their composition had been made in error, 324 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: but he felt that if he changed them or even 325 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: raised the issue, it was just going to start a 326 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: big fight with both artists and historians, and he wanted 327 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: no part of it because there was no benefit to 328 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: him and he did not see any possible way he 329 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: would come out of such a conflict unscathed. But that 330 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: was not the end of the Laocun makeovers. What maybe 331 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: the most surprising of all of them is yet to come, 332 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: and we will get to it right after we hear 333 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: from some sponsors that keep Stuffy miss in history class going. 334 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: Almost four hundred years after the Laocoon was found in 335 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: Rome and acquired by the Vatican Museum, the mystery of 336 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: Laocoon's missing arm was solved a little more satisfactorily through 337 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: a stroke of luck and a good and well trained eye. 338 00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: At the time, the curator of the Museo Branco in 339 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: Rome was archaeologist Ludwig Pollock, who was born in Czechoslovakian 340 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty eight. As a boy, Ludwig had always been 341 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: drawn to antiquity, and he studied art history and archaeology 342 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: in Prague and Vienna before moving on to Rome, where 343 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: he settled down for the rest of his life, and 344 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: in Rome he became recognized as an expert at assessing 345 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: antiques and being able to correctly identify both their origin 346 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: and their value. When Pollock happened to be visiting a 347 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: Stonemason shop in Rome on the Via lab Acada, he 348 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 1: spotted the arm. It was at this point just a 349 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: few hundred meters away from the place where the Laocoon 350 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: had first been found. Polack had studied the Laocoon and 351 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: his son's enough to just visually I d the arm 352 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: as a likely match. I feel like if this had 353 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: happened in a different year, it would be something we 354 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: would talk about on Unearthed. Yeah, and it really does 355 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 1: speak to Pollock's great skill because he was there was 356 00:21:57,960 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 1: one right up I read of him. I had to 357 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: read it and train Leasian where they were like. No, 358 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: he could with a glance tell you correctly like what 359 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 1: era something was from and how much like it would 360 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: be valued at. He was just incredibly skilled. Poblic had 361 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: actually seen the arm in nineteen o three when he 362 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: was scouting for another project, but he didn't publish his 363 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: findings until nineteen o five. He took the time in 364 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: between discovery and going public to collect supporting evidence, and 365 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: he even took it to the Vatican during that time, 366 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 1: in nineteen o four, presenting it to the curators of 367 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: the art collection there, and he wrote in his diary 368 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: of that particular meeting quote the custodians were quite astonished. Sadly, 369 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty three, Pollock appeared on the Gestapo list 370 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: of Jews in Rome that were to be rounded up 371 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: during the occupation. Pollock didn't believe he was in danger. 372 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: He was prominent, guess, he was famous for his work 373 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: and curating and dealing art and the Laocoon Arm in particular, 374 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: but he hadn't done anything wrong or suspicious. He didn't 375 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: think there was any reason for anyone to tar get him. 376 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: Even the Vatican is said to have sent a driver 377 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: to his home to offer to take him to the 378 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: safety of Vatican City, and he declined. But on October 379 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: sixteenth he was arrested with his family and they were 380 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: all shipped to Auschwitz berken Now, and they were murdered there. 381 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: Although Ligig Pollock did not live to see it. The 382 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: arm that he had spotted was eventually reunited and restored 383 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: to the statue in ninety seven, and it was a 384 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: perfect fit. There was even a drill hole in the 385 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 1: arm that perfectly matched up to a drill hole on 386 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: the torso, and it was just as Michelangelo had described 387 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: as the most likely position, bent behind Laocoon, grasping at 388 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: the serpent on his back. And that is the version 389 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: that remains on display today, even though it's been sixty 390 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: five years since the correct arm was restored. You'll see 391 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: a lot of images of the Laocoon that showed the 392 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 1: upstretched arm. It's not because they're the photos of the 393 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: one in the Vatican, but because there are a whole 394 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: lot of copies that were made of the statue. These 395 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: are floating around and all kinds of other collections. A 396 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: lot of times those have been photographed. Uh. I saw 397 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: one as I was listening to lots of different art 398 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: historians say the name of the sculpture was a copy 399 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: of it in another collection. I don't remember how the 400 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 1: arm was positioned though, because I was just listening for 401 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: the words. Yeah. A lot of them do have that 402 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 1: upstretched raised to the Heaven's arm. And it's kind of 403 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: great because it makes it really easy to compare and 404 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: contrast how the the two different versions look. And you 405 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: can kind of see where the musculature does, as Michelangelo said, 406 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: match up to to the gesture he finally ended up with. 407 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: And we mentioned earlier that this statue is sometimes dated 408 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 1: to circuit two and that being contradicted by the lifetimes 409 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: of the artists that were mentioned as creating it. But 410 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 1: though Plenty aimed Agissander, Polydorus and Athenodorus of Rhodes, he 411 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: wasn't accurate in his description of the statue, so that 412 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: kind of calls his entire account into question. The big 413 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: problem with his description of it is that he claimed 414 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: it was carved from one block of marble. That is untrue. 415 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: It is made of several pieces seven in fact, of 416 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: marble that are expertly fitted together. There have even been 417 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: theories that this dates back to the fourth century b C. 418 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 1: The Vatican Museum was its date of creation as being 419 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: around forty b C. The sculpture doesn't really match stylistically 420 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 1: with the fourth century BC date. The Classic period had 421 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: a lot more static poses in sculptures, but it does 422 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,959 Speaker 1: match with the more dynamics styles found in artwork from 423 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: the Hellenistic period. That period is dated from three BC 424 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: to thirty three b c E. There's also a possible 425 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: explanation for that disparity. Are a lot of art historians 426 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 1: today who agree that the Laocoon that Plenty wrote about 427 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: was a copy of an older bronze sculpture. Yes, so 428 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 1: this one that we're seeing is probably the copy. Uh. 429 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: There have always been more controversies about this work of art. 430 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: From a composition and artistic perspective, There's been a lot 431 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: of discussion and debate. In the mid seventeen hundreds, German 432 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: art historian Johann Joachim Wincklemann had written about the work 433 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: as an ideal representation of beauty. He had also commented 434 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 1: on the arm and its debate, writing quote, this arm 435 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: entangled by the snake must have been folded over the 436 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: head of the statue. Yet it looks as if the 437 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: arm folded above the head would have in some way 438 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 1: made the work wrong. In seventeen sixty six, German philosopher 439 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: Gotthold Lessing wrote an essay about art that was inspired 440 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: by the Laocoon statue. It was titled Laocoon or the 441 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: Limitations of poech E. The majority of the work is 442 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: really about visual art versus poetical art. And the Laocoon 443 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: is only discussed in the first part, but Lessing makes 444 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: the case that the Laocoon is ultimately not conveying a 445 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: realistic scenario because viewers would not be able to cope 446 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: with it. He wrote, quote, the demands of beauty cannot 447 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: be reconciled with the pain and all its disfiguring violence, 448 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: so it had to be reduced. The scream had to 449 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: be softened to a sigh. Not because screaming betrays an 450 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: ignoble soul, but because it distorts the features in a 451 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: disgusting manner. Simply imagine Laocoon's mouth forced wide open, and 452 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: then Judge imagined him screaming, and then look. From a 453 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: form which inspired pity, it has now become an ugly, 454 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: repulsive figure from which we gladly turn away. For the 455 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: fight of pain provokes distress. However, the distress should be 456 00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: transformed through beauty into the tender feeling of pity. There 457 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: are lots and lots of papers and books written about 458 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: whether the depiction of pain in the sculpture is beautiful 459 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: or horrifying, and what it means in context of ideas 460 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: of Greek manhood, Comparing and contrasting in some cases with 461 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,199 Speaker 1: Dcleman's and lessons takes on it as it relates to 462 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: the Laocoon. So many papers and books. I just want 463 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: to point that out if you have read one that 464 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: you love. I did not read them all, obviously, and 465 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: I apologize that it's not included so many, so many. 466 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: One aspect of the statue that has troubled art historians 467 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: and critics is the expression on Laocoon's face as a 468 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: scientific study, specifically his forehead. If you look at his eyebrows, 469 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: they're clearly tensed. They create a ridge in the center 470 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: that points slightly upward. It's a pretty obvious expression of anguish, 471 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: struggle and pain. But then his forehead has ripples on 472 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: it and they stretched from side to side. They're unaffected 473 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: by the furrowed brow. They look relatively placid. This has 474 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: really irked a lot of people over the years. French 475 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: neurologist Guillaume Benjamin Armand Duchen, often named as Deuschan de Boulogne, 476 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: declared that the combination of characteristics was physically impossible and 477 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: that the disparity detracted from the arts impact. Building on that, 478 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy two, Charles Darwin wrote about the issue 479 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: in his work The Expression of the Emotions in Man 480 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: and Animals, and he wrote it in a way that 481 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: it first seems kind of damning, but then acknowledges that 482 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: this might have just had to have been an aesthetic 483 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: choice writing quote. The ancient Greek sculptors were familiar with 484 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: the expression as shown in the statues of Laocoon and Aretino, 485 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: but as Dechen remarks, they carried the transverse furrows across 486 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: the whole breadth of the forehead, and thus committed a 487 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: great anatomical mistake. This is likewise the case in some 488 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: modern statues. It is, however, more probable that these wonderfully 489 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: accurate observers intentionally sacrificed truth for the sake of beauty 490 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: than that they made a mistake, for rectangular furrows on 491 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: the forehead would not have had a grand appearance on 492 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: the marble. William Blake saw this piece not as a 493 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: representation of the story of Laocun, but as a copy 494 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: and a mediocre one of a Hebraic work that depicted 495 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: Jehovah and his son's Adam and Satan. Blake used the 496 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: image of the Laocoon statue and an illustration for the 497 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: Cyclopedia or Universal Dictionary of Arts, Sciences and Literature, which 498 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: he illustrated for Welsh botanist and minister Abraham Reeves. Blake's 499 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: two dimensional image also included inscriptions surrounding the image of 500 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: Laocoon and his sons which commented on Christianity, morality, the arts, 501 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: and the quest for wealth. Yeah that's if you ever 502 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: just want to spend some time watching an artists work 503 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: through his snark about a thing. Read all of those 504 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: inscriptions that William Blake put on his illustration of the Laocoon. 505 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: He seems to think it's great that they're getting bitten 506 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: by the snakes up. In two thousand five, art historian 507 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: Lynn Katterson put forth a very controversial idea that the 508 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: Laocoon may have been a forgery by Michelangelo. She cited 509 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: an anatomy study drawing the artist had done of a 510 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,239 Speaker 1: man's back is a piece of evidence, noting that in 511 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: her interpretation, it appeared similar to the back of the Laocoon. 512 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: If you've studied Michelangelo, you know he often drew out 513 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: his his plan and kind of did anatomical studies before 514 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: he started carving. She believed that Michelangelo may have been 515 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: hoping that the wealthy Medici family would have wanted to 516 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: purchase ancient grow Greek and Roman objects that was something 517 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: they collected, and that this sculpture would have ent ice them. 518 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: While Katersson said she never set out to cause an uproar, 519 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: many many art historians have gotten very angry about it 520 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: and spoken out against her theory. Art historian Richard Brilliant, 521 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: author of My Laocoon Alternative Claims in the Interpretation of Artworks, 522 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: called her theory quote non credible on any account. In 523 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: January of this year, lit Big Pollock and his family 524 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: were remembered with memorial stones that were set in place 525 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: outside their last address at Piazza Santi Apostolie. And now 526 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: you can go see the Laocoon if you happen to 527 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: be in Rome and visit the Vatican Museum, which I 528 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: highly recommend it. Be ready for your brain to be 529 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: putting at the end of that. There's so much stuff 530 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: there is. It's kind of one of the things where 531 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: I wish in the future that I could take a 532 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: leisurely trip to Rome and just spend like days visiting 533 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: the Vatican museums and go into one area at a 534 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: time and just skip the rest and be like today 535 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: is sculpture, only today is paintings. Um. That is the 536 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: story so far of the Laocoon. Who knows what else 537 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: may happen? Uh, Since we're only a hundred years out 538 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: from the last development, there could be more in it's 539 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: uh two thousand plus year life. In the meantime, though, 540 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: I have a kind of a fun listener mail from 541 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: our listener, Aaron who writes High Ladies, longtime listener, sort 542 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: of from both ends. But I'm not sure if I 543 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: will ever get my PhD. I guess I'm just a 544 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: master student in history. I was listening in early May 545 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: when you both talked about the Star Wars rides at 546 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: Disney's Hollywood Studios. I had just gone there with my 547 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,719 Speaker 1: family and had the experience that should give Tracy some 548 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: potential comfort. I have written the Star Tours ride ever 549 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: since the original at Disneyland, and when I was younger 550 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: it was a repeat, great fun ride. In April on 551 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: Spring break, me and my son's were at disney World 552 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: and the line wait for the newest Star Wars rides 553 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,479 Speaker 1: were such that we decided to ride the updated version 554 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: of the classic first. It was cool that there are 555 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: cameos from the new movies, but I felt very nauseous 556 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,720 Speaker 1: and jittery by the end of the ride. It seemed 557 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: that my time with roller coasters must be ending. The 558 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: next ride was Millennium Falcon Smugglers Run, and that was 559 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: great fun getting to pup my way through the ride 560 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 1: and very little nausea. Last was the longest wait time 561 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: Rise of the Resistance, and that ride basically takes you 562 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: into a Star Wars movie. The weights between that and 563 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: the actual ride were not great, and again no nausea. 564 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: By the end of our trip in Orlando, I had 565 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: ridden quite a few rather intense coasters and was a 566 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: bit nauseous, but had a lot of fun, but not 567 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: nearly as bad as that first Star Tours ride. I 568 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: have a theory that there are people who cannot tolerate 569 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 1: those types of rides at all, those who can excessively 570 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: tolerate those rides and love every second, but most of 571 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: us are in between and our bodies it used to 572 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: it and enjoy the ride. There's probably scientific evidence to 573 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: support this, but sorry, I'm too lazy to look it up. Anyway, 574 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: to each their own, and we spent so much money 575 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: just getting in the park that I was going to 576 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: ride the rides. Um. I had meant to write sooner, 577 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: but life got in the way. As it does. Listening 578 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: to the comments about motion sickness made me want to 579 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 1: share my own experience. Listening to your podcast to certainly 580 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: help during the past few horrible years. Knowledge of the 581 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: past can help give us perspective for today. Thanks Aaron. Aaron, 582 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: I can tell you why you still have trouble with 583 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: Star Tours and not the other rides. I don't think 584 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: Tracy has been on the other two attractions. They don't 585 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: involve three D glasses. That's what it is. It's the 586 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: three D part. It's like the gimble rig may or 587 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: may not make you ill, but the gimble rig plus 588 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: three D, which your brain is trying to perceive while 589 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: also maintaining your physical equilibrium, is what makes most people 590 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: feel a little queasy, or can do it in Tracy's 591 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: case quite quite as I recall, UM, So take heart 592 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: for anybody that that has that problem, the other two 593 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: probably won't bother you at all, um and are wonderful, 594 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: So I just in case anybody was fearful after that discussion, 595 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: you don't have to be rise to the Resistance. In particular, 596 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: you could not do three D glasses because you're getting 597 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: on and off different ride vehicles and walking through things 598 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: at some parts and writing things at others, and that 599 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: would be a trip and not very fun at all, 600 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,839 Speaker 1: and it would break the immersion. Uh you would like 601 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: to write to us about your vacations to theme parks 602 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: or the Vatican museums or anywhere else or anything else, 603 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,919 Speaker 1: You can do that at History podcast at iHeart radio 604 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,400 Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find us on social media 605 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: as at missed in History And if you would like 606 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: to subscribe to the podcast and haven't gotten around too yet, 607 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: good news super easy. You can do that on the 608 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: i heeart radio app or anywhere else you listen to 609 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: your favorite podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class is 610 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from 611 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 612 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H