1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Dear listener, there's some language in this episode that might 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: be offensive. 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 2: In DR, the maternal death rate is already higher than 4 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 2: the average in Latin America, at ninety five deaths per 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: one hundred thousand berths. Other numbers show that twenty percent 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 2: of those deaths are a byproduct of unsafe abortions. So 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 2: these strict laws are not stopping abortions in the DR, 8 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 2: They're just making them dangerous. 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 3: From Futuro Media, it's Latino USA. 10 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,279 Speaker 1: I'm Maria no Josa today the fight for legal abortion 11 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: in the Dominican Republic. It's been over a year since 12 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: historic protests in the Dominican Republic led to the end 13 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: of over sixteen years of same party rule. But on 14 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: May twenty third, more than a thousand people took to 15 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: the streets in the capital of Santo Domingo to protest 16 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: yet again. But this time, the protests weren't about political corruption. 17 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: This time, women's rights activists were demanding an end to 18 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: the nation's total abortion ban. The Dominican Republic has one 19 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: of the harshest anti abortion laws in the Americas. Abortion 20 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: isn't allowed under any circumstances. Only five other countries in 21 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: the continent have such harsh restrictions on ending a pregnancy legally. 22 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: That's Haiti, Hondura's, Nicaragua, Jamaica, and Il Salvador. Today I'm 23 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: joined by Amanda Cantra. She's a Dominican journalist and our 24 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: former digital media editor here at Latino USA. She's going 25 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: to tell us more about what's happening in her home 26 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: country where she's based right now, and what's going on 27 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: in the fight for women's reproductive rights on the island. Hey, Amanda, 28 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: welcome to Latino USA. 29 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,559 Speaker 2: Wela Maria, thank you for having me today. 30 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: So, Amanda, you've been following the protests that have been 31 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,959 Speaker 1: happening in the Dominican Republic since March, and that's when 32 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: women's rights activists set up an encampment in the capitol 33 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: in Santo Domingo. More recently, there was a national march 34 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: where a lot of people in the protests were chanting 35 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: something pretty particular. They were saying lastdis gau salis, which 36 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: can basically be translated into the three grounds or the 37 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: three circumstances. So that's ad is gau salis. I mean, 38 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 1: it's like it's it doesn't roll right off of your tongue. 39 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: I know, I'm trying to think if I've ever used 40 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: the word gau salis anywhere in my life in Spanish, 41 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't think I've ever used that word. 42 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: So kisses do dey get les todas gau salis. 43 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 4: Yeah. 44 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 2: So the triskcal salis, which was a word that I've 45 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 2: personally gotten very used to saying because I've been in 46 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,399 Speaker 2: the middle of these protests. There are basically three circumstances 47 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 2: under which women would be allowed to have an abortion, 48 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:22,119 Speaker 2: and these are considered sort of the basic circumstances, right, 49 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 2: So it's when there has been a case of rape 50 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 2: or ancest, when the fetus is non viable, and when 51 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 2: the health of the woman is at risk and the. 52 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 5: Thing is Maria. These are considered basic human rights. 53 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: So it's actually a big deal to have these three 54 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: gaus salis because in some places you don't have any. 55 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: In other words, abortion is illegal, no if ants or butts, right. 56 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. And one of those places is the 57 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 2: Dominican Republic. 58 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: So in the Dominican Republic, right now, even if a 59 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: woman's life is at ris, even if there's a case 60 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: of incest, it's illegal for them to seek an abortion. 61 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 5: Yes, yes, it's illegal. 62 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: And there have been cases of women and girls who 63 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: have passed away because they haven't had access to an 64 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 2: abortion while being at the hospital, while doctors know. 65 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 5: That this could save their life. 66 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 2: And it's honestly very angering, you know, because it's like basic, 67 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 2: you know, it's like the minimum right. So people are 68 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: not asking for free abortion access. This is rather only 69 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 2: under these three cases. And it has been very, very 70 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: difficult for feminists and activists and women to get these 71 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: three approved because Conservatives and Christians have such a stronghold 72 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 2: on the government here, and. 73 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 3: That stronghold on the government isn't new. 74 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: In fact, this law is based on a penal code 75 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: that was passed in the year and so okay, let 76 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: me get this right here. This penal code was passed 77 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: in the year eight teen eighty four and it's still 78 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: being used. 79 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 3: I mean, are we serious here. 80 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 5: Yes, yes, we are serious. 81 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: When I first reported on this story, I'm going to 82 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,559 Speaker 2: be honest with you, I wrote nineteen eighty four because 83 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 2: I thought that was the right number, and then when 84 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 2: I was fact checking it blew my mind that it 85 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 2: was actually eighteen eighty four. 86 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 1: So how does that eighteen eighty four Pinal Code have 87 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: anything to do with what's happening now in terms of 88 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: women and reproductive rights. 89 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 2: Right now, the Pinal Code says women can go to 90 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: prison for up to two years if they have an 91 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 2: abortion and up to twenty years for doctors who practice abortions. 92 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 6: Wow. 93 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 2: So what's happening now is that the Pinal Code is 94 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 2: actually being reviewed by this new government that was sworn 95 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: in last year. If you remember the story that we 96 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 2: did last year that I spoke to you about, the 97 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: previous ruling party had been in government for about sixteen years, 98 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 2: and last year the Dominican Republic made history when they 99 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 2: voted in a new government headed by Luisavinadd. During his 100 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 2: campaign he said that he was in favor of the 101 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: three causalis, and then when he became president, one of 102 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 2: the things that his new government took on was revising 103 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 2: this Pino Code. However, when they initially presented their reform 104 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: in Congress, it did not include the three causalis. 105 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: So did the candidate Avi Naded make a promise during 106 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: his campaign to kind of deliver on passing the three causalis. 107 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 2: Basically, luisavi Nadd he didn't quite promise that he would 108 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 2: pass the three Cousalis when he was running for president, 109 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 2: but he did say that he supports them. However, when 110 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 2: the revision of the Pino Code started, he kind of 111 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 2: changed his stance to say that, you know what, this 112 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: is not only a political issue, this is also a 113 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 2: religious issue. 114 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 5: So I'm going to leave it up to Congress to 115 00:06:59,000 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 5: make this decision. 116 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 2: Here is Luisa Adel speaking during an interview with a 117 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 2: heinsia f and April. 118 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 7: Nineteen, the the Stalist instantiomn. 119 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 2: No activists and feminists to the street in that moment 120 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 2: to protest and to the man that these three castalists 121 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 2: be included in the the new Pino Code. 122 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: So it's interesting because I think people understand that abortion 123 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: rights are under attack in the United States, but basically 124 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: you're having feminists and their allies and other women say, basically, 125 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: we just want you to say it's okay to get 126 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: an abortion if there's incest, rape, or the woman's life 127 00:07:55,720 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: is in danger. And even that is a source for 128 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of activism. So in certain countries, going 129 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: ahead and getting an abortion can have some really tough 130 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: consequences as well. For example, tell Us about what happens 131 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: in El Salvador to a woman who wants to get 132 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: an abortion. 133 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 2: In El Salvador, it's also completely illegal to get an 134 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 2: abortion under any circumstances. The punishment there is harsh. Women 135 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 2: can face over thirty years in prison, and at least 136 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 2: eighteen women have actually been prosecuted and imprisoned. Even though 137 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 2: we have this Pino code here in Dominican Republic, there 138 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 2: are very few cases that actually get prosecuted by law. Basically, 139 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 2: the police doesn't really pursue these cases for the most part, 140 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 2: unlike El Salvador. However, there have been cases that haven't pursued, 141 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: like one of a twenty year old woman who was 142 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 2: given pain medication and she ended up going to the 143 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: hospital losing the baby, and she was taken to trial 144 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 2: because she was accused of having an illegal abortion. And 145 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: it's interesting because I was reading the news about what's 146 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 2: happening in the United States now, and with Row versus 147 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: Wade going back into the Supreme Court, that's essentially what 148 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: would happen in the US. What is already happening here 149 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,719 Speaker 2: is that abortion would only be accessible to those who 150 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 2: can afford it. 151 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: All right, So if you are not wealthy, and you 152 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 1: need to get an abortion in the Dominican Republic. Amanda, 153 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: You've been doing reporting on the ground in the DR, 154 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: so tell us a little bit about what you learned 155 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: about what that looks like for women right now. 156 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 2: I spoke to a gynecologist, and I spoke to several 157 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 2: people who confirm that getting an abortion here is possible, 158 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 2: but only for women who are able to pay. So 159 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 2: what ends up happening is that women who live in poverty, 160 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 2: women who are marginalized, women who are disenfranchised, do not 161 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 2: have access to an abortion, and this creates a situation 162 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 2: of inequality. This is leon founder the gynecologists I spoke with. 163 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 4: First, you need to have the information, and it cuts 164 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 4: money and it cuts time because it's not you were 165 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 4: saying to have an abortion if you are twenty five, 166 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 4: that if you are fifteen, it's not insane because you 167 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 4: don't have experience, you don't have information, you don't know 168 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 4: how to do it. 169 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 2: As a gynecologist, she has attended many teenage girls who 170 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 2: got pregnant, in some cases against their will. When it 171 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 2: comes to underage girls giving birth, data from the National 172 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 2: Office of Statistics showed the number of cases of persons 173 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 2: under fourteen years old giving birth. 174 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 5: And they were alarming. 175 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: In the last ten years, there's been thirty four thousand, 176 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 2: three hundred and seven cases in the Caribbean. Dominican Republic 177 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 2: and Guyana have the highest adolescent pregnancy numbers. 178 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 4: It's a crime in our law to have said this child, 179 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 4: but it's just in the paper. If you are under fifty, 180 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 4: you're a tamaier. But you're also you're not a complete 181 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 4: human being to be responsible for other people. 182 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 2: It's very difficult for women living in poverty to have 183 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: an abortion, and at times what happens is that women 184 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 2: take matters into their own hands and put their own 185 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 2: life at risk. So the symbol of the bad child 186 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 2: or the hangar was something that was used by artists 187 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 2: in during the protest to represent that women use hangers 188 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 2: like clothing hangers to perform abortions on themselves. There was 189 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 2: a case where a woman hit her stomach with a 190 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 2: block of cement, a block of concrete. 191 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 5: In order to induce an abortion. 192 00:11:53,640 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 2: So goodness, yes, yeah, and. 193 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: I mean I think we've we've we've heard such, you know, 194 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: horrible stories or situations of women being so desperate. But 195 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: then you you know, you forget how desperate, how desperate 196 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: you can feel if you have no no out in 197 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: something like this. 198 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 3: That's that's hard, I'm onda. 199 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's very hard. 200 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 2: And so what these activists want is for the system 201 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 2: to take on this issue so that women can go 202 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 2: to a hospital and can get an abortion in a 203 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 2: way that is safe, in a way that is secure. Again, 204 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,719 Speaker 2: these are circumstances where basically women don't have to be 205 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 2: revictimized by the circumstances under which they got pregnant. Right, 206 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 2: So if we're talking about someone who got pregnant because 207 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 2: of a rape case, if then you're telling that person 208 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 2: that they cannot get an abortion, you are revictimizing them. 209 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 5: And when it comes to. 210 00:12:55,440 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: Women who are at risk because of their pregnancy, these 211 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 2: are some of the cases that have gotten the most attention, 212 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 2: especially the case of Rosara whose nickname is Esperancita. So 213 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 2: she was the sixteen year old girl that she needed 214 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 2: cancer treatment for leukemia and it was denied by the 215 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 2: doctors because she was pregnant and she ended up passing away. 216 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 2: When the case of Rosa Esperancita happened, Funder was actually 217 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 2: there to speak out about that issue too, and we 218 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 2: actually have tape of her at that time. 219 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 3: Mediato. First, you know, Mediato, what. 220 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 2: Doctor Fander said is that if Esperancita hadn't been pregnant, 221 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: or if she had been a man, she would have 222 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 2: gotten the treatment. That the medical protocol for a case 223 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 2: like this is to end the pregnancy in the first 224 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 2: trimester so that the patient can get the treatment. This 225 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 2: is the case that happened over ten years ago, and 226 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: her mom has been very outspoken to this day about 227 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: how she says the system basically took her daughter from her. 228 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 6: You don't know why they have this city without Barrasso. 229 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 2: And this is actually a case that was taken on 230 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 2: by the Inter American Commission of Human Rights because even 231 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 2: from an international standpoint, it's it's sort of an indictment 232 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: on the system. 233 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 5: Here. 234 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: Coming up on Latino usay, we learn about what the 235 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: women of the Dominican Republic are doing to get their 236 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: right to safe and legal abortions and how they're fight 237 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: is part of a larger wave across Latin America. 238 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 3: Stay with us notes. 239 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: Hey, we're back and before the break, we were speaking 240 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: with journalist AMANDL Cant about the history and the consequences 241 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: of the total abortion band that's been in place in 242 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: Theminican Republic since the year eighteen eighty four. It's a 243 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: legacy that feminists and activists on the island have been 244 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: fighting for decades to change. Over the last few months, 245 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: the chance of reaching a legal reform has gotten closer 246 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: than ever before, but there are still a lot of challenges. 247 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: We're going to get back now to our conversation with 248 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: journalist Amandra Cantra. All Right, for a moment, let's talk 249 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: a little bit about the power of the women in 250 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: the Dominican Republic. So I'm thinking historically, for example, las 251 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: Hermans Mirabal, the Mirabal sisters who are at the forefront 252 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: of bringing down the dictatorship in the dr of tru Hillo. 253 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: So there's this kind of sense of blood, ancestry and 254 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: resistance that runs in the kind of collective culture of 255 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: the Dominican Republic and the women there. And as part 256 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: of the recent protests to pass these three gausat is, 257 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: women's rights activists decided to build a camp in the capital, 258 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: Santo Domingo. So tell us a little bit about this camp, 259 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: who created it and who was there. 260 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 2: The camp was basically a spontaneous formation that began on 261 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 2: March eleven, when activists came out and protested for the Driscalsalis. 262 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: When Congress got together to begin revising the Pino Code, 263 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 2: and these activists and feminists saw that they weren't including 264 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 2: the three causalis in the Pino Code, they decided we're 265 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 2: going to stay here and camp out, and they were 266 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 2: there for seventy three days total. I actually visited the 267 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 2: camp on one of those days, and I spoke to 268 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 2: an activist there. Her name is sad I figured Ao. 269 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 2: She is a young queer educator and advocate who spoke 270 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 2: to me about why she decided to protest and. 271 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 5: Why she even camped out on certain nights. Why a 272 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 5: camp is. 273 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 8: Our way of showing that we are not resting. We 274 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 8: are here, we are looking at you. We're using in 275 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 8: front of you, so you have to see us and 276 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 8: you have to listen to us, and showing that this 277 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 8: is important for us. 278 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 2: I actually spoke to another activist who has stayed there 279 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 2: almost every night, Angela fermin Montero, and she showed me 280 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 2: her tent. In the tents, she had a twin size 281 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 2: mattress and some personal items like a book, bag and 282 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: some clothes. The activists there made deals with local restaurants 283 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 2: to give out food. You know, in the camps Maria, 284 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 2: they held conversations, they held talks. They also had some 285 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 2: activities to kind of keep the activists to keep their 286 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 2: energy up right, So they had some activities like yoga classes. 287 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 2: And while I was there, some interesting things happened. So 288 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 2: when I was about to start the interview with sad I, 289 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 2: there was a woman who approached us who said that 290 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 2: she needed help because she was being harassed. And this 291 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 2: was interesting because it kind of showed that this camp 292 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 2: was becoming something more than just a space to talk 293 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 2: about the three car sales. But the activists there saw 294 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 2: this as showing how the camp was also becoming a 295 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 2: place for people to go advocate for their human rights. 296 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 2: And while I was at the camp Maria, I couldn't 297 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 2: get this on tape, but there was a car that 298 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 2: drove by and said Bari Bandidas like he yelled at 299 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 2: everyone who was there. 300 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 9: Yeah I know, I know, which basically means go give 301 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 9: birth you you know, yes, lesser respectful terms. 302 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. 303 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 6: You know. 304 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 2: So even though the activists they had been very uh 305 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 2: energetic and they are very passionate. 306 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 5: They weren't necessarily feeling safe in the. 307 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: Camps, so there has been verbal harassment of the protesters, 308 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: but there was violence as well against the women who 309 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: were camping out. 310 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 4: Yeah. 311 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 2: So, in the early morning of April twenty, when they 312 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 2: started debating the penal code in Congress, some activists set 313 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 2: up another camp there and it was evicted by the police, 314 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 2: who had ripped the tents with knives and also used 315 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 2: some sort of gas bring The next day, different organizations, 316 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 2: including representatives from the United Nations and public officials, stood 317 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 2: up for the women, and a government official said that 318 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 2: these actions don't represent the administration, so they tried to 319 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 2: distance themselves from the police and the police's actions, but 320 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 2: it still happened, and the activists are still facing attacks 321 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 2: and a lot of backlash. Here's that I again, one 322 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 2: of the activists staying at the camp. 323 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 8: I feel like really powerful showing it in the street 324 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 8: like yes, I'm I'm for the trick out sellers, I'm 325 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 8: in favor, like sea Way, I'm here, but sometimes like 326 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 8: it's scary because I shouldn't do that. But if you 327 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 8: go like to section comments in Facebook or digital newspapers, 328 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 8: you see like a lot of violence. You see violence, 329 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 8: and you see hay and you just stop feeling safe. 330 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 2: I also spoke to another woman who did have an abortion. 331 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 2: Her name is Gina Goico. She is an activist and 332 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 2: an artist currently living in New York City, which is 333 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 2: why she's being open about it because she says that 334 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 2: she feels safe since she's not in Dominican Republic anymore. 335 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 2: And she told me that she felt that she was 336 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 2: only able to access an abortion because she was middle class, 337 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 2: because she she went to a gynecologist who basically instructed 338 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 2: her on what to do. 339 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 6: Here's Gina, Like, he first of all, like he berated 340 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 6: me because I was pregnant, right, like oh my god, 341 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 6: like how am I doing this to my family? So 342 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 6: the shame starts like from the get go. And he 343 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 6: was the one who like immediately told me like, oh yeah, 344 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 6: like you're getting an abortion. So he just told me 345 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 6: like don't We're like I'm gonna get everything, and he 346 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 6: got someone to send to my house like mensa, heiro 347 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 6: like a delivery guy to get me the pills and 348 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 6: get me everything. So he told me like quickly what 349 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 6: I have to do. But then he also told me 350 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 6: like by the way, like I cannot see you again 351 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 6: after this. 352 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 2: So Gina took the abortion pills and had to go 353 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,360 Speaker 2: to another gynecologist to follow up, and she says that 354 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 2: she felt very lonely and very scared that she had 355 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 2: to go through the pain of the abortion alone because 356 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 2: the doctor told her, I'm going to give you these pills, 357 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 2: but you won't be able to see. 358 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 5: Me anymore afterwards. 359 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 6: It was fucking terrible. It was I think, like the 360 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 6: whole night and part of the morning just like in pain, 361 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 6: then like two days later going and checking like uh 362 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 6: to make sure that I didn't have any rescues inside 363 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 6: of me. 364 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 2: And in some of the worst case scenarios. She says 365 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 2: that some of her friends who have had abortions in 366 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 2: a similar way then also face shame or even violence 367 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 2: when returning to the hospital. Here's Gina again relating a 368 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 2: friend's experience. 369 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 6: So we go to the hospital, she gets a sonogram, 370 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 6: she gets the abortion, and she goes back like a 371 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 6: week after, because this is procedural you need to make 372 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 6: sure that nothing is there. And it was the same 373 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 6: technician doing a sonogram and she was using one of 374 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 6: those like pelvic sonograms that you entered through the vagina, 375 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 6: and she was being really violent and committing like obstetric 376 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 6: violence against her because she realized what happened. So she 377 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 6: was just like, oh, look at this. Also, now you 378 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 6: don't have any you don't have any child inside of you. 379 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 2: Gina told me her friends felt uncomfortable with the way 380 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 2: the technician was behaving and using offensive language. 381 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 6: And she was like, ugusta, it's gonna hurt here. 382 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 2: She used a Dominican phrase that means once you make 383 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 2: a certain decision, you also have to deal with the 384 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 2: pain of that decision. 385 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 5: So there's a lot of shame. 386 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 2: There's a lot of shame around this issue, and even 387 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 2: for women who even for women who are able to 388 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 2: access an abortion, it's also not easy peasy, and in 389 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 2: the end, the fact that it's illegal means that there's 390 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 2: a lot of fear around going through this procedure. 391 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I hadn't thought about how difficult it must 392 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: be to be an obgyn a gynecologist in the dr. 393 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: Is there something that doctor Funder is able to do 394 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: to help at all? 395 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 2: Something that doctor Funder told me is that the fact 396 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 2: that these caucalists haven't been passed makes it difficult for 397 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 2: her to do her job because when you become a doctor, 398 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 2: you take on a hippocratic oath that you're. 399 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 5: Supposed to protect people. 400 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 2: You're supposed to help save people's lives, and the lack 401 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 2: of these caucalists make it difficult for her to do 402 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 2: her basic job of protecting her patients. 403 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 4: We have a woman's that are on risk of the 404 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 4: eye because they are pregnant, or they can't receive the 405 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 4: treatment correctly because they are pregnant. You know, that's really 406 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 4: difficult if you are a doctor, you want to save lives. 407 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:08,239 Speaker 4: That's the way we were training to save life. 408 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: So, Amanda, if you have doctors that are saying that 409 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: the triscal style is in fact are needed in the 410 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: Dominican Republic. If women are suffering and people are seeing 411 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 1: this and these stories are connecting to people, you know, 412 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: women dying unnecessarily because they can't have access to reproductive rights. 413 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: So why is it still so hard to pass these laws. 414 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 2: Well, first as the whole eighteen eighty four Pino Code, 415 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,959 Speaker 2: but also the Catholic Church has a lot of power 416 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 2: in day to day life. Here's doctor Lilliam van Deuragan 417 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 2: referring to an agreement sign between the Vatican and the 418 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 2: Dominican government in nineteen fifty four, an agreement that is 419 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 2: still current. 420 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 4: The Dominican Republic. We have also the Concordato. The Concordato 421 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 4: is that between the Pano and the government of Dominican Republic. 422 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 4: So we have that from Truhiedo, and it's very important 423 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 4: because it's the power of the religion in everything, in everything, 424 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 4: including the woman's life. And if you open this three cases, 425 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 4: the woman will recognize a little bit that they are 426 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 4: the owner of her own body. And that's too much 427 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 4: for our system. 428 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: Can you tell us anything about, for example, any polling 429 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,479 Speaker 1: on general public opinion on the issue of abortion in 430 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: the DR So. 431 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 2: When it comes to the numbers, there was a two 432 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 2: thousand and six study that said that close to seventy 433 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 2: percent of the population is Catholic, whether they practice or 434 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 2: don't practice. And even though some Catholic organizations have actually 435 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 2: also come out in support of the three causales, there's 436 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 2: still a lot of misinformation. Sarai Figueret actually spoke to 437 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 2: me about this, so here's some of what she had 438 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 2: to say. 439 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 8: For example, the church and stuff in the Conservative flight sites, 440 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 8: they are doing a job of giving misinformation to people. 441 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 8: Like people they when they speak about abversion, they don't 442 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 8: speak about dres call salis treecausal. They speak about like 443 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 8: abortion in general. And if you see there, if they're 444 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 8: talking about abortion and they show pictures, they show like 445 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 8: babies are almost going to be like born, so it's 446 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 8: like yeah, So it's like there is a lot of 447 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 8: misinformation and people we are trying like according to our 448 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 8: reality and the time we have to educate people and 449 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 8: show them what are the three cau salads and why 450 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 8: is important for everybody, but not everybody. 451 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 2: Knows the camp it stood for seventy three days and 452 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 2: it ended with the march on May twenty third. 453 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: That's a long time to be out there protesting in 454 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: the hot, hot sun and hot nights in the dr 455 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: The President Louis I mean added, did not push to 456 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: pass the three coucalies in the new Penal Code. 457 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 2: So then what happened, so right now, what happened in 458 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 2: Congress is that they did pass a first reading of 459 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 2: the new Penal Code and it did include one of 460 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 2: the three coucales. Abortion would be allowed if the woman's 461 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 2: health was at risk. And now they have to make 462 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 2: sure that the Senate passes this in order for this 463 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 2: one causal to be permitted. But yeah, yeah, and it's 464 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 2: not it's not a surprise that this is the one 465 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 2: that passed, because I mean, it caught the international attention, right, 466 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,479 Speaker 2: It caught the attention of the International Commission of Human Rights. 467 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 2: The United Nations, you know, has this as one of 468 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 2: the tenets of basic human rights for women and girls. 469 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 2: But the other two cases are also very very important here, Maria, 470 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 2: especially the case of rape and of women or girls 471 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 2: to become pregnant as a result of a rape, because 472 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: until recently child marriage was allowed in the Dominican Republic. 473 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: It was only made illegal in January of this year. 474 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 6: Wow. 475 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 2: And you know, Maria, this is I know as a reporter, 476 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 2: this is something that you often talk about, which is 477 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 2: how you're not supposed to bring the personal into the reporting, right, 478 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 2: and you're not supposed to bring sort of your own story. 479 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: But I found out recently that my grandmother, may she 480 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 2: continue to rest in peace, used to work at an 481 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 2: abortion clinic in the sixties, and the around of shame 482 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 2: when it comes to that story is. 483 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 5: Insane. 484 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 2: Like I found out about this in passing. It was 485 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 2: sort of just mentioned by my aunt, like, oh, yeah, 486 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 2: my mom used to work at an abortion clinic in 487 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 2: the sixties, and I. 488 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 5: Have never heard about it. Again. 489 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 2: I have tried to find more information about, you know, 490 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 2: where was the clinic or how long does she work there, 491 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,719 Speaker 2: what does she do while she was there, and I 492 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 2: haven't found any information. And I think this just speaks 493 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 2: to the shame that women feel when it comes to abortion, 494 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 2: and also to how this issue isn't new. This isn't new, 495 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 2: and people have been having abortions in secret for decades, 496 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 2: if not more. 497 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 5: Centuries and centuries, yes, I'm like. 498 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 3: For centuries, for centuries, that's right. 499 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 7: Yeah. 500 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 5: Yeah. 501 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: Oftentimes people in this country don't realize how there is 502 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: really a Latin American Caribbean consciousness and that there's a 503 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: political vibe that can happen around this entire area. And 504 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: so this fight for women's reproductive rights and their ability 505 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: to decide what's happening with their own bodies is not 506 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: happening in a vacuum in the region. So this isn't new, right, 507 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: because there really have been powerful movements across Latin America 508 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: that are essentially really attempting to overturn these restrictive kind 509 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: of legislation. So in Argentina, women have been protesting for 510 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: years and finally a new law was passed in December 511 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty expanding access to legal abortion. And people 512 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: have been seeing a pretty serious activist movement coming out 513 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: of Chile, and this has been marked by the women 514 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: and their allies all wearing green, carrying green handkerchiefs. So 515 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: I'm wondering do the Dominican activists see themselves as part 516 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: of what's being called this green wave that's expanding throughout 517 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: Latin America. 518 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I absolutely do feel that, and the activists 519 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 2: here do see themselves in that way. I mean, not 520 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 2: only do they wear green, they also have taken on 521 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 2: some of the chants that women around and across Latin America. 522 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 4: Use, and. 523 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 2: They lean on these cases in other countries to make 524 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 2: strategic moves, to make strategic decisions, and to also feel 525 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 2: a sense of unity. So Sadai, one of the activists, 526 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 2: this is what she told me at the camp. 527 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 8: The color green, like they were in all these years, 528 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 8: have represented lightified in favor of abortion, of deciding for 529 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 8: your own body that your reperlactive rights what do you 530 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 8: want to do? And we take it too, because this 531 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 8: is not only one or two people. It's not only us. 532 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 5: It's like. 533 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 8: Women and people with the ability of gearingm pregnant all 534 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 8: over the world have is writing we're fighting for the 535 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 8: same and this is maybe the cooler and the sealed 536 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 8: bowl that makes you be like the same united. 537 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 2: And during the march on May twenty third, a singer 538 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 2: called Isade performed what she called the Dominican version of 539 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 2: the song. 540 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,479 Speaker 5: This is a song that was composed by. 541 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 2: A Mexican singer her name is Vivid Quintana, about women 542 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 2: who are missing in Mexico, and she rewrote the song 543 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 2: with others in a collective to include lines like for 544 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 2: young girls who are raped, for mothers asking for. 545 00:34:41,719 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 3: Justice, Okay, I'm on that. 546 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: So tell us about what's going to happen next in 547 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: the dr where do you see this going? 548 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 3: And what about these activists right now? 549 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 2: Even though the camp has ended, said, I told me 550 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 2: that they will still be organizing talks and activities and 551 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 2: to them, this has further bonded a community of activists 552 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 2: that has been fighting for decades for the three cal 553 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 2: Salas to pass. So even though before I shared that 554 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 2: the activists were being attacked and sometimes they felt fear 555 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 2: of showing their support. The camp and the protests also 556 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 2: created a space for people to show solidarity. And if anything, 557 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 2: it seems that the conversation might be shifting here, said 558 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,760 Speaker 2: I during the May twenty third march, And they're being. 559 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 8: Heard and it feels good and it doesn't stop here, right, 560 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 8: So we know the people we have here and we 561 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 8: will multify it this like people will speak to their families, 562 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 8: to their friends, and we will spread the word. 563 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 6: Yeah. 564 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 8: So yeah, if you are tired, this is only We 565 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 8: always say this is just the beginning. 566 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 5: Like we have many things through even as many things good, 567 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 5: we have good. This is them and a big one. 568 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:26,359 Speaker 5: I'm a really happy. 569 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:41,280 Speaker 1: Thank you, Amanda, thank you so much for your reporting 570 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 1: on the ground in the Dominican Republic. 571 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 3: We really appreciate it. 572 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 2: Maria, thank you so much for having me. 573 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 1: This episode was reported by Amandel Cantra, produced by Victoria Estrada, 574 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,240 Speaker 1: and edited by Marta Martinez. The Latino USA team includes 575 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: Andrea Lopez Grusado, Mike Sargent, Julieta Martinelli, Gini Montaldo, Alejandra Seleasar, Rinaldo, 576 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: Leanos Junior and Julia Rojau with help from Raoul Perees. 577 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: Our editorial director is Julio Ricardo Varela. Our engineers are 578 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: Stephanie Lba, Julia Caruso and Lea shaw Dameron, with help 579 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 1: from gabriel A Byez. 580 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 3: Our digital editor is Louis Luna. 581 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: Our New York Women's Foundation Ignite fellow is Mari es Kinca. 582 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: Our intern is Oscarde Leon. Our theme music was composed 583 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: by Jan Ruinos. If you like the music you heard 584 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: on this episode, stop by Latinousa dot org and check 585 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: out our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm your host and executive 586 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 1: producer Marinosa. Join us again on our next episode, and 587 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: in the meantime look for us on social media. Hi 588 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: dos veo Bye. 589 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 10: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Heising 590 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 10: Simons Foundation, unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities. More at Hsfoundation 591 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 10: dot org. W K Kellogg Foundation, a partner with Communities 592 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 10: where Children Come First, and the Ford Foundation, working with 593 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 10: visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide. 594 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: Enjoy Cabarete You Lucky Girl, I'm Marieojosa and next time 595 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,360 Speaker 1: on Latino USA. After Hurricane Maria, an eccentric community of 596 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: cryptocurrency investors arrived in Puerto Rico with promises to change everything. 597 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 6: This is a decentralized luminism. 598 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 3: I'm not aware of anyone building any gain in community. 599 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: I think the long wonder, but what do Puerto Ricans 600 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: think about that? That's next time on Latin USA.