Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I Heard podcast,
Speaker 1: and I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News. Yes, I know it's Saturday, but we're here
Speaker 1: to offer you our listeners a special audio only version
Speaker 1: of a new weekly video series called Crypto I r L.
Speaker 1: That's I r L Like in Real Life, and it's
Speaker 1: hosted by friends of the show, Katie Greifeld and Tim Stenovic.
Speaker 1: This is episode nine of Crypto I r L. If
Speaker 1: you want the full video experience, head over to Bloomberg
Speaker 1: dot com, slash qt or check it out on YouTube.
Speaker 1: Yesh h. The implosion of f t X has given
Speaker 1: ammunition to crypto skeptics. It's kind of this I Told
Speaker 1: You So a moment for those who've been against crypto
Speaker 1: from the beginning. At the same time, many of those
Speaker 1: said skeptics see the case against crypto is larger than
Speaker 1: the failure of one of the biggest crypto exchanges on Earth.
Speaker 1: To them, it's about utility and inherent value of crypto.
Speaker 1: It's about the concept. They don't actually buy the idea
Speaker 1: that you can use crypto to create an alternative financial system.
Speaker 1: Throughout the series, we've heard from the true believers who
Speaker 1: make passionate and extraordinary promises about crypto that bitcoin provides
Speaker 1: freedom because they, not a government, are in control of
Speaker 1: their money, for example. But there are also people out
Speaker 1: there who make it their mission to shine a light
Speaker 1: on what they see as the deficiencies. You're about to
Speaker 1: hear from three of those people, all of whom we
Speaker 1: spoke to before the f t X to bacle. And
Speaker 1: even though we don't yet know the ultimate fallout from
Speaker 1: f t X is collapse, how much money is gone,
Speaker 1: what clients will recoup or how, or if it will
Speaker 1: ultimately undermine confidence in crypto, we know that the skeptics
Speaker 1: are already using it as yet another example to make
Speaker 1: their case. I gotta say it's a little weird that
Speaker 1: this is our last episode. Well, we're making the case
Speaker 1: against crypto. We're talking to prominent voices who are anti crypto.
Speaker 1: It seems like a pretty good journalism thing to do,
Speaker 1: you know, get both sides of the argument, right, It's
Speaker 1: a noble pursuit, it's a higher calling, right. Yeah, We're
Speaker 1: out there collecting information about both sides and presenting it
Speaker 1: in an even handed way. And we got to meet
Speaker 1: the guy from the o C. How did you find
Speaker 1: yourself in this mess? Because people know you as Ryan
Speaker 1: Francis Outwood from the o C. They know you as
Speaker 1: a copy on other shows. Yes, on two separate shows
Speaker 1: where I played a cop. Yeah. Um, how did I
Speaker 1: find myself in this mess? So? I have a degree
Speaker 1: in economics UM from the University of Virginia UM, which
Speaker 1: I got for a while ago, uh, two decades ago.
Speaker 1: But of the pandemic, I had a lot of time
Speaker 1: on my hands. Um. Uh. The short answer is a
Speaker 1: buddy of mine from college, who has given me the
Speaker 1: worst financial advice of my life, came to me and
Speaker 1: said you should buy some bitcoin, and I said, Okay,
Speaker 1: I think that's a red flag some something might be
Speaker 1: up here. So I, UM. I hadn't paid attention to
Speaker 1: cryptocurrency really ever, um up to that point. I took
Speaker 1: UM Gary Ginsler. They had the SEC's course that he
Speaker 1: taught on blockchain and crypto in m T and he
Speaker 1: had made it available for free online, so I took it.
Speaker 1: Hours later. It was like I had a lot of information,
Speaker 1: but I had the same questions, which, to be honest,
Speaker 1: I started with with the word itself with language. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm a storyteller. UM, that's what I do for a
Speaker 1: living and work to have a lot of power. UM.
Speaker 1: And cryptocurrencies aren't currencies by any reasonable economic definition. There
Speaker 1: a poor medium of exchange, unit of account, and store
Speaker 1: of value UM. And so what they more closely resemble
Speaker 1: is a security UM where and securities are obviously regulated
Speaker 1: under American law. They're an investment of money in a
Speaker 1: common enterprise with the expectation of profit to be derived
Speaker 1: from the efforts of others. That's the four prongs of
Speaker 1: the how we test, which is how we define securities
Speaker 1: under American law. I saw a massive unregulated securities market
Speaker 1: UM that was drawing in millions and millions of people
Speaker 1: who I don't think we're aware of the potential fraud.
Speaker 1: UH that could that could ensue, that could be happening
Speaker 1: right as at that moment, and so UM. Anyways, I
Speaker 1: reached it. I got I got high one day and Uh,
Speaker 1: I decided that I should write a book about crypto
Speaker 1: and fraud, which sounds like a really good idea when
Speaker 1: I was high. UM. The next morning, sober, I realized
Speaker 1: I didn't actually know how to write a book. Um.
Speaker 1: So then, UM, I reached out to uh this journalist
Speaker 1: Jacob Silverman, who I had never met before, but I
Speaker 1: had followed him on on Twitter and he followed me back. Um.
Speaker 1: He had written an article called even Donald Trump and
Speaker 1: know his Bitcoin as a scam, which I thought was
Speaker 1: kind of funny and had brought together a few things
Speaker 1: that I was thinking about, this is why we always
Speaker 1: need to have our d m s open. Yeah. Anyway,
Speaker 1: and butt him to drinks and was like, hey, do
Speaker 1: you want to write a book about cryptoon fraud? And
Speaker 1: he's like, my wife just that they're about to have
Speaker 1: a pandemic baby. My wife and I had had our
Speaker 1: pandemic baby earlier, so he was going on parentally, so
Speaker 1: he's probably like, didn't have anything better to do, but
Speaker 1: he was like yeah, sure. So so it's funny that
Speaker 1: all of this kind of started in the pandemic for you,
Speaker 1: because that's actually when I started watching the o C
Speaker 1: Yeah with with my brothers. Actually it was very weird.
Speaker 1: You're like so late. I know, I know, but I
Speaker 1: got there, which is the important thing. That is the
Speaker 1: important thing. But listening to you, it sounds like most
Speaker 1: of your objections lie in the cryptocurrency part of the
Speaker 1: cryptocurrency universe, the currency part. But how how broad is
Speaker 1: your skepticism here, Like when you think about things like
Speaker 1: to centralized finance, like the promise of the blockchain, for example,
Speaker 1: do you see any merit or potential in those areas? UM?
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's extremely difficult to tell
Speaker 1: right now until the dust settles on what I believe
Speaker 1: was effectively the largest planting scheme in history by in
Speaker 1: order of magnitude. UM. I know that's a bold claim,
Speaker 1: but I'm happy to back it up with you know,
Speaker 1: facts and figures and all sorts of stuff. Until we
Speaker 1: see that uh settle and we see what's left. It's
Speaker 1: difficult to find hard numbers and cryptois. You're it's probably no.
Speaker 1: But according to the Pew study that was done just
Speaker 1: this last month, they asked people, you know, did your
Speaker 1: investment in crypto the forty million Americans who have bought crypto,
Speaker 1: um of the adult population, did your investment in crypto
Speaker 1: live up to your expectations? UM? I think like fifteen
Speaker 1: sixtent said it exceeded them, said it was you know,
Speaker 1: kind of what they expected, and like said it was
Speaker 1: worse so just starting there, you're looking at like a
Speaker 1: three to one split right with like saying it was okay,
Speaker 1: we don't really know where it's gonna go yet, but
Speaker 1: if I'm optimistic, it sounds like you're open to it
Speaker 1: yea and totally opening. I was sorry I couldn't tell
Speaker 1: your biggeste guess I am. I am open to it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't I don't mean. I don't care
Speaker 1: about a distributed ledger right, that does not animate my
Speaker 1: like I don't think that your blood. I don't care.
Speaker 1: It's just a ledger, Like, if you can use it
Speaker 1: to you further. Um. The things that Crypto purports to do,
Speaker 1: then great. Right. I would love for our financial system,
Speaker 1: which has many many flaws, to be better. I would
Speaker 1: like for it to be more inclusive. I would like
Speaker 1: for the fraud to be lessened. Um, And I'd like
Speaker 1: for people to be able to transact easily and particularly
Speaker 1: overseas between countries. But unfortunately, Crypto I don't think accomplishes
Speaker 1: any of those things. I'm wondering how you think about
Speaker 1: what you're doing right now in the context of your identity,
Speaker 1: your professional identity, or your personal identity. You're a dad
Speaker 1: you're an actor, you're a crypto skeptic, you're writing a book.
Speaker 1: I guess my question is what's the end game with
Speaker 1: the crypto side of things? And how that kind of
Speaker 1: yeah for you, Like what's your goal with writing the book?
Speaker 1: Why are you doing it? Like? What what do you
Speaker 1: want to com indicate? Yeah, it's funny that you might
Speaker 1: talk to my therapist and he's like he said, he
Speaker 1: He's like, you're not the things you do. You're not
Speaker 1: the results of the things you do. That's why I said,
Speaker 1: your dad too, not that I talked to your therapist.
Speaker 1: That's fine. So, like, I don't like it when people
Speaker 1: I like you, you're you're, you're, you like your town.
Speaker 1: I'm not just a journalist. So what I hope to
Speaker 1: do with the book is tell a story about people
Speaker 1: and what they want and why they bought crypto um
Speaker 1: and what we can learn from the failures of crypto
Speaker 1: and where we might go from here. And back to
Speaker 1: your point is there are there things we can take
Speaker 1: from blockchain and decentralized technologies that they do offer value.
Speaker 1: And I'm very open to that, and I'm talking to
Speaker 1: academics and people that know a lot more about that
Speaker 1: than me. When you reflect on the rug pulls, the
Speaker 1: pig butchering that's gone on, how much flame do you
Speaker 1: place at the feet of regulators. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: blame to go around. UM, but it's funny. I'm actually
Speaker 1: writing that chapter now. UM A lot. It's been a
Speaker 1: massive failure across the board, both parties. Um. Um, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons for that, I think. I think.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a sort of I think there
Speaker 1: are simple answers to that question. Um. One of the
Speaker 1: things that I was struck by when I started to
Speaker 1: try to understand, like why this has gotten so big,
Speaker 1: um with so little regulation. Um. One of the things
Speaker 1: that I observed that I thought was just quite fascinating
Speaker 1: was the fact that we separate our commodities regulation from
Speaker 1: our securities regulation, which, as far as I'm aware, is
Speaker 1: we're the only country in the world to do so.
Speaker 1: You live in Brooklyn, Yes, I live in Brooklyn. Matt
Speaker 1: Damon lives in Brooklyn. You won't even yes, you know
Speaker 1: where I'm going without God. When you think of celebrities
Speaker 1: in crypto, you think of celebrities who have endorsed crypto.
Speaker 1: Matt Damon Larry, David Parakelton, Kim Kardashian Um. I mean,
Speaker 1: have you ever run into any of these celebrities, given
Speaker 1: that you're kind of the soul celebrity skeptic, I don't
Speaker 1: want to say soul, but you're among the most vocal
Speaker 1: celebrity skeptics. Do you ever run into Matt Damon, for example,
Speaker 1: that our weekly meetings, that your weekly meetings? No, I
Speaker 1: do not, um, So I haven't talked to them. So
Speaker 1: I don't view celebrities as so. The first article that
Speaker 1: Jacob and I wrote in October of last year was
Speaker 1: about Kim Kardashian UM and about the theory of max shilling,
Speaker 1: which was just pretty obviously scanny UM. And so it's
Speaker 1: it's pretty rewarding, I have to say, personally, and quite
Speaker 1: frankly to be a little indulgent that like, almost exactly
Speaker 1: a year to the day after we wrote that article
Speaker 1: at the STC, you know, reach a settlement with her
Speaker 1: for one point six million dollars. But um, But celebrities
Speaker 1: are just the megaphone that crypto needs in order to
Speaker 1: get more retail trader traders into the casinos. Like they're
Speaker 1: not I'm sure or the celebrities, you know, run the
Speaker 1: gamut in terms of their knowledge of cryptocurrency and block technology.
Speaker 1: But my suspicion is they're not deeply steeped in the
Speaker 1: they haven't all read the white paper. They have not
Speaker 1: read the white papers or perhaps taken Ginsler's course. Um
Speaker 1: they are, you know, they're selling stuff, as celebrities have
Speaker 1: always sold stuff since there have been celebrities. Ben Mackenzie,
Speaker 1: thanks for hanging out with us. Yeah, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Molly White so non seen. Carmona, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: It's good to see you both. Thanks for having us.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Molly. I want to start with you. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people everyone knows about Web three
Speaker 1: is going great now, but I'm interested in your own
Speaker 1: journey because you have a background in computer science, you
Speaker 1: have a background in communities. It's kind of strange that
Speaker 1: you don't love crypto, given that we're talking computer science
Speaker 1: and communities, Like what's not to love? I think, um,
Speaker 1: crypto doesn't actually help communities in the way that it
Speaker 1: claims to be. UM. You know, I do care a
Speaker 1: lot about communities, and I care a lot about them
Speaker 1: being treated fairly and being um educated about what they're
Speaker 1: getting into and I don't think crypto does either of
Speaker 1: those things very well. This special audio only episode of
Speaker 1: Crypto I r L will be right back with more
Speaker 1: from Katie Greifeld and Tim Stanovic. If you want the
Speaker 1: full video experience, head to Bloomberg dot com slash qt.
Speaker 1: Tell us about your background? Is this live? Just kidding?
Speaker 1: Its not? Okay? So I know that a lot of
Speaker 1: your research has focus on inequity and sort of how
Speaker 1: crypto plays into that. So I mean, taking those comments,
Speaker 1: would you agree? So I, like you just said, focus
Speaker 1: on inequities. I was not a crypto researcher person, didn't
Speaker 1: think I was going to end up into the space.
Speaker 1: But I found that there were a lot of like
Speaker 1: recent reportings at least around the time I started looking
Speaker 1: into crypto, with you know, headlines around communities of color
Speaker 1: really being drawn to cryptocurrencies, and so I really came
Speaker 1: in extraordinarily curious. I just wanted to know, so, how
Speaker 1: does this work? How does this happen that you have
Speaker 1: these promises and it actually like comes true. And in
Speaker 1: doing that research is when I found one the promises
Speaker 1: weren't being met and then two it also there's this
Speaker 1: was this space with just a whole range of risks
Speaker 1: and drawbacks. Well in that research to not see I'm
Speaker 1: wondering if there was anything that you found that is
Speaker 1: promising in the technology, in the concepts to how build
Speaker 1: a more equitable society Because the financial system, I mean,
Speaker 1: is it fair to say that it is exclusionary in
Speaker 1: some ways? Oh? I think one of the things at
Speaker 1: least I talk about is that historically a lot of
Speaker 1: communities of color have been excluded from traditional financial institutions.
Speaker 1: That is absolutely true, But that doesn't mean that crypto
Speaker 1: is necessarily the solution. I don't agree with the status quo.
Speaker 1: I believe we should fix the status quo um. But
Speaker 1: then even digging deep into crypto, I don't disagree with
Speaker 1: the ideas of democratization of finance. I don't disagree with
Speaker 1: the claims themselves. I disagree with the fact that they're
Speaker 1: essentially false promises and so Molly, I mean bringing that forward,
Speaker 1: the work that you do, sort of chronicling all the
Speaker 1: risks and drawbacks. When you think about everything that has
Speaker 1: happened over the past few months, the scams that we
Speaker 1: have seen, the rugs that have been pulled, what would
Speaker 1: you the pinks that have been slaughtered. You know about
Speaker 1: this pig butchering. Have you heard of this UM? Well,
Speaker 1: in any case, actually called boats. So we're good the
Speaker 1: same effect at the end of the day. But what's
Speaker 1: the common denominator there between all these different scams, because
Speaker 1: it feels like they've taken a lot of different forms
Speaker 1: and shapes. But how what what would you say is
Speaker 1: the common linkage? They do take a lot of different
Speaker 1: forms UM, and I think they do differ in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, but they often rely on the fact
Speaker 1: that people think crypto is really hard to understand. It's
Speaker 1: really you know, technologically complex, and so they're sort of
Speaker 1: willing to accept that maybe they don't understand it, but
Speaker 1: that they should still you know, buy into it. UM
Speaker 1: people will often just say, well, I don't really get
Speaker 1: how it works, but you know it's promising me these
Speaker 1: huge returns, and so I'm probably just not smart enough
Speaker 1: to understand it, but you know, they'll put their money
Speaker 1: in UM. And I think, you know, people actually generally
Speaker 1: are actually smart enough to understand what's happening in these schemes.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if so, not seeing there's like any promised
Speaker 1: the idea of disintermediation, of getting rid of you know,
Speaker 1: quote unquote middleman, a third party. The decentralization here, the
Speaker 1: idea of people being able to send remittances to other
Speaker 1: countries without paying huge feast to some sort of third party.
Speaker 1: Isn't that at least promising? Right? So? I I guess
Speaker 1: your your question really to me, the thing that struck
Speaker 1: me was the fact that you said idea. The ideas
Speaker 1: are promising, um, But it's when you dig deep into
Speaker 1: the technology itself you find that disintermediation, that so called decentralization.
Speaker 1: I mean, one could actually quibble with that in itself,
Speaker 1: and that there are intermediaries within the technology itself. You
Speaker 1: have software developers who make decisions that you essentially have
Speaker 1: to rely on to make the right decisions, that they
Speaker 1: have the right incentives to make those decisions, that they
Speaker 1: don't have conflicts of interest as they're making decisions. You
Speaker 1: have miners with certain cryptocurrencies that make decisions. So those
Speaker 1: are mediaries actually exist. And when you zoom out the
Speaker 1: very like structures are additional technologies and platforms that are
Speaker 1: being built on top of the blockchain. You have a
Speaker 1: whole new set of Intermediaris. Molly, there's this this funny
Speaker 1: thing happened yesterday. I was on your website and there's
Speaker 1: this good news section sort of this good news tag,
Speaker 1: and I was like, Oh, I'll click this and it
Speaker 1: will be like all the good things that crypto has done.
Speaker 1: It's not. It's like the last entry I think it
Speaker 1: is July, and the good news was that some game
Speaker 1: developer is not going to use n f T s. Yes.
Speaker 1: So my challenge to you is name something good that
Speaker 1: has come from all of this. Well. I think the
Speaker 1: best thing actually about crypto and everything that has sort
Speaker 1: of sprung out of it is that it has put
Speaker 1: the spotlight on a lot of failures in existing systems
Speaker 1: that we deal with today. So I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people are actually a lot more aware of issues
Speaker 1: in the banking system or in you know, unbanked communities
Speaker 1: than they might have been if they hadn't started engaging
Speaker 1: in crypto. And I think that's great. This special audio
Speaker 1: only episode of Crypto I r L will be right
Speaker 1: back with more from Katie Greifeld and Tim Stanovic. If
Speaker 1: you want the full video experience, head to Bloomberg dot
Speaker 1: com slash QT. I want to get your thoughts on
Speaker 1: a conversation we were having with Matt Levine um and
Speaker 1: in his big piece on crypto for words, Tim and
Speaker 1: I read all of it. Um he makes the point
Speaker 1: that the reason you've seen a lot of trad five
Speaker 1: people go into crypto, leave big banks to go into
Speaker 1: crypto is because there's so much more room for creativity
Speaker 1: and innovation rather than waiting for you know, someone way
Speaker 1: high up at the bank too, Okay, your project, you
Speaker 1: can just you know, go onto the blockchain, build a
Speaker 1: smart contract, build some sort of application, just go out
Speaker 1: and do it. And I mean maybe in its present
Speaker 1: state that hasn't produced anything that has any real sort
Speaker 1: of tentacles into the real economy or hasn't made our
Speaker 1: lives better necessarily. But when you think about that sort
Speaker 1: of blue sky thinking that okay, there's lower guard rails here,
Speaker 1: maybe it'll produce something wonderful, does that cross your mind
Speaker 1: at all? Well, I think that's one of the things
Speaker 1: where you sort of have to push back and say, well,
Speaker 1: why is there so much um you know, why is
Speaker 1: it so slow to do it in the current system.
Speaker 1: And it could be that he's you know that a
Speaker 1: person is working at a huge bank and there's just
Speaker 1: a lot of bureaucracy there. But I would guess that
Speaker 1: you know, if you're asking why is the traditional financial
Speaker 1: system really slow, it's probably because of all the regulations
Speaker 1: have to comply with. And it's true that crypto doesn't
Speaker 1: have that many regulations and so people are able to
Speaker 1: quote unquote innovate in very interesting ways. But that's also
Speaker 1: where all the schemes and the you know, enormous disasters
Speaker 1: have been coming from too um and crypto I think
Speaker 1: has been you know, evangelists for crypto have been making
Speaker 1: the argument that you can't regulate crypto more strongly or
Speaker 1: you will squash innovation. Not where do you come down
Speaker 1: on regulation, Because if there's nothing actually useful there to
Speaker 1: be regulated, then is it sort of just a waste
Speaker 1: of time and a waste of resources to even think
Speaker 1: about regulation there. That's a great question. So to your
Speaker 1: point on the regulation, I was just thinking of like
Speaker 1: New York, they have a regulatory scheme. It's not perfect
Speaker 1: by any means, but it's something, and companies haven't left
Speaker 1: New York, so I think it also kind of just
Speaker 1: runs counter to the example that like, do you mean
Speaker 1: from a crypto perspective. Yeah, Yeah, from a crypto perspective,
Speaker 1: like companies are still operating in New York, they're still
Speaker 1: offering their services, they're still quote unquote like innovating, and
Speaker 1: so I just think that kind of helps debunk the
Speaker 1: argument that regulation is all bad. Are you frustrated with
Speaker 1: the slow pace of regulation at this point? I mean,
Speaker 1: I know that the SEC find Kim Kardashian one point
Speaker 1: three million dollars huge, but cryptos here, it's been here
Speaker 1: for a while, no indication it's going away, and we're
Speaker 1: still talking about alphabet soup at this point. I'm enormously
Speaker 1: frustrated with it. I mean, we've seen sort of piecemeal enforcement,
Speaker 1: you know, individual schemes that are being cracked down on
Speaker 1: by the SEC or the d J or various other
Speaker 1: uh groups. But it's very sort of whackall at this point.
Speaker 1: So to not seeing if if crypto doesn't solve the
Speaker 1: problems that you have done, that you've identified, the problems
Speaker 1: that you've studied, what does well, it depends on what
Speaker 1: you're trying, all right, exact because it all varies. So
Speaker 1: I mean financial exclusion inequities. So if you're talking about
Speaker 1: let's say, like unbanked or underbanked, it's just to me
Speaker 1: even fascinating that Again, this gets lumped in with people
Speaker 1: wanting to use crypto for like wealth building, like for
Speaker 1: unbanked or underbanked. What is it exactly we're trying to solve.
Speaker 1: Is it access to a bank account? Is it access
Speaker 1: to being able to make financial transactions? There are policymakers
Speaker 1: right now who provide a whole host of solutions. The
Speaker 1: thing is is that many of them don't necessarily require
Speaker 1: technology their policy based solutions. If we're talking about wealth building,
Speaker 1: which other people view like crypto as a mechanism for
Speaker 1: doing that, again, there are other policies that might actually
Speaker 1: help us do that. And what's fascinating is in this country,
Speaker 1: the federal government used to provide ample amount of support
Speaker 1: subsidies to actually enhance wealth building. We used to be
Speaker 1: able to provide support to buy a house like in
Speaker 1: mass You know we do now, but it's just it's
Speaker 1: not at the scale that it was becoming used. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there you to be like support to go to college,
Speaker 1: to start a business, all of these things, and then
Speaker 1: like maybe post seventies, you start to see kind of
Speaker 1: a decline in that to dismantling a lot of that support,
Speaker 1: and so now you have people who in reality don't
Speaker 1: see a way to build wealth or if they're excluded,
Speaker 1: a way to access these systems in a low cost way.
Speaker 1: And so part of our work then is to figure
Speaker 1: out not necessarily the technology that solves this, but what
Speaker 1: is the pain point, and then let's build from there.
Speaker 1: And oftentimes it is policy solutions, and we have plenty
Speaker 1: of academics and researchers that have these, and so what
Speaker 1: we're really lacking is political will. Thank you to both
Speaker 1: of us. We did great. Hold on, hold on, hold on,
Speaker 1: hold on, Yeah, we did great. Yeah, good job to
Speaker 1: not seeing Carmona Molly Way, thanks for joining us. Ye,
Speaker 1: that's it. That's it. That's We've done eight episodes. I'm
Speaker 1: kind of I'm very bum Yeah. I hope we get
Speaker 1: to do this again. I hope so too. I just
Speaker 1: remember there was a time when we first started filming,
Speaker 1: all the way back what eight weeks ago, I asked
Speaker 1: you your opinion on something. You said, I don't have opinions.
Speaker 1: I'm a journalist. Sounds like me, But come on, after
Speaker 1: eight episodes, weekend week out doing crypto talking, to the
Speaker 1: people we spoke to. You've got to have an opinion
Speaker 1: on something, you know you're right. And this is something
Speaker 1: that I have struggled with. And you know when I
Speaker 1: when I really boiled it all down, I truly think
Speaker 1: that I want to see these episodes of Crypto I
Speaker 1: r l in video. Check them out on Bloomberg Quicktike
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com, slash qt, or find Katie and
Speaker 1: Tim Over on YouTube. This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily
Speaker 1: podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more shows
Speaker 1: from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Send us
Speaker 1: your comments, questions, or suggestions for the show to Crypto
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot net or find us on Twitter. We're
Speaker 1: at Crypto. The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky
Speaker 1: very Galina. Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producers
Speaker 1: are Mohammed Faruk and Sharon Barriro. Our associate producers are
Speaker 1: Ty Butler and Moses on Them. Desta wonder At is
Speaker 1: our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidron. I'm Stacy Marie
Speaker 1: Ishmael have a great weekend,