1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M 4 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, and 5 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: our trustee co host Noel is on the road on 6 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: an adventure. All will be revealed in time, I believe, 7 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: is the party line. He's on on the road on 8 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: an adventure. Just still a couple of feet away from us, 9 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: right exactly? They who am I? They call me Ben. 10 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: We are joined with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decade. 11 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you. You are here that makes 12 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: this stuff they don't want you to know. Wait, Ben, 13 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: there's somebody else in the room too. You're right, Matt, 14 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: You're Spider. Since is as always disturbingly accurate, we are 15 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: not delving into today's topic alone, are we met? No, 16 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: we are not. Today we are joined by Lauren Vogelbaum 17 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 1: that you may know from Savor Brain Stuff. Oh my gosh, 18 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: so many um and if you are not already aware, 19 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: Savor is the new version of what was once food Stuff. Right, Yes, 20 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: it's essentially the same show, but now we go on 21 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: the road sometimes and talk to actual human people aside 22 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: from ourselves, were mostly human people about a food, food 23 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: and culture and science and how all those things work 24 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: together and why why we eat the way that we eat. 25 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: It's an awesome new thing experience to listen to savor 26 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: just hearing you in places. It's been a whole lot 27 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 1: of fun as a listener. Just wanted to say that 28 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: on on Mike. Oh, thank thank thank you so much. 29 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: And we defer to you, Lauren fairly often in the 30 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: show when something food related comes up. That's that's why 31 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: we asked you to come here today. Oh you didn't 32 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: just want to hang out? Well, that that too for sure. Yeah, yeah, 33 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: I mean mostly Yeah, it's mostly hanging out and then 34 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: you're going to know more stuff about this than we do. Maybe, actually, definitely, 35 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: I believe you entirely. I enjoyed, enjoyed that strange shrug, Laurden. 36 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: You have been on the show in the past before. 37 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: You have joined us for an exploration of the diamond industry. 38 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: Oh right, yeah, specifically not food related that one, but um, 39 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: but yeah, who, I'm still mad about diamonds. You may 40 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: notice that there's a reoccurring theme here. We bring you 41 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: on for terribly depressing things. Yeah, that's why when you 42 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: said hang out, I was a little taken aback. At 43 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: this point, you you pretty much know the score. I mean, 44 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: I mean hypothetically. I did some of the research here anyway. 45 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: So yeah, one of these well, I mean, one of 46 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: these episodes. One day, maybe we'll be a fun and 47 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: delightful one. Do you guys do fun and delightful episodes? 48 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: You just never invited? I see, yeah we do. But 49 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: we are so glad that you are here today, especially 50 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: because we are catching you right before you take another 51 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: trip for saver. Oh yeah, tomorrow, I'm flying out to 52 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: New Orleans with user Dylan and uh and my co 53 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,839 Speaker 1: host Annie, and we're gonna we're gonna eat and drink 54 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: some stuff. We're going to talk to some people about it. 55 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: I'm so jealous. That's some of my favorite food that 56 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: exists on the planet. I can't eat bell peppers, so 57 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: it's gonna be rough going for me. But it's gonna 58 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: be just all right. I'm gonna just make up for 59 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: it in cocktails. You can also get your own parade, 60 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: which I know I keep telling, keep telling everyone. Don't 61 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: blow up the spot if you listen, if you live 62 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: in New Orleans and you don't know about this, but 63 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: it's not that expensive to pay outside of Marti Grass season, 64 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: to pay a band to do a parade for you, 65 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: and you get to walk in the front or I 66 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: guess wherever you want. At that point, I promptu parades 67 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: with only two hand grenades. And that's all. That's the 68 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: maximum amount of hand grenades you can have in one night. 69 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: I'm telling you. That's a drink, right, yes, not not 70 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: physical weapons. Don't drink those at all. Yeah, you guys, 71 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: Today we're talking about a major company that most people 72 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: know about. They are the creators of such foods for 73 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: cats and dogs as Alpo Benefit and Fancy Feast. That's right, 74 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: that's right. Today we are exploring the disarming and perhaps 75 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: surprising story of a company called Nesslie. But that's not 76 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: all they've created. Yeah, I'm you know, candy from kit 77 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: Cats to Butterfingers, coffee brands like Taster's Choice, Nest Cafe, 78 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: Coffee Mate, and Starbucks, packaged coffees, baking products from Libby's Incarnation, 79 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: frozen infrigerated foods like Staffers, California Pizza Kitchen, Hot Pockets, Linquisine, 80 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: and the Journo and Tombstone. Uh, dessert brands like Hog 81 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: and Dogs, Eaties, Skinny Cow, Boost and Power Bar, nutritional supplements, 82 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: Gerber Baby Foods, Purina pet Foods, and they have a 83 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: thirty percent ownership of Loureal, including cosmetics brands like Garnier, 84 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: the Body Shop and maybe Lene and perfume lines from 85 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: Ralph Lauren, Georgio Armani and Eve st Laurent. Wow, and 86 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: that's nowhere near all of it. Did we hit perry 87 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: A and San Pelagreno. Oh? I didn't even mention the 88 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: water right right water there There are multiple brands of 89 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: water as well. This company cast a large, not entirely 90 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: sugary shadow. You know, for a lot of us in 91 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: the US, we associate nestleie with maybe like nest Cafe 92 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: or like a Nestley Crunch candy bar. But every single 93 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: thing that Matt and Lauren just named is owned by Nestley. 94 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: There's so much more to the story. Nestle is huge. 95 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: It's gargantuan. It is like, I don't want to ruin 96 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: the surprise yet, but it's big. Let's just go with that. 97 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: It's like the Facebook of foods. You know what that 98 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: is disturbingly accurate. But this, this is true. When Nestley 99 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: first started out, they only made one thing, one real breakthrough. 100 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: It was it was condensed milk and baby formula, which 101 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: was massively important, and that's why it became such a 102 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: big company. They started in a place which was a 103 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: good place to start babies, right right, just like Wu Tang, 104 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: Nestlee was for the kids. Yea, So here's here's a 105 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 1: terrible joke that we we weren't proud of, but we're 106 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: going to do anyway. Matt, would you like to do 107 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: the condensed history of Nestlee grown because it's condensed like 108 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: the milk. Yes. I feel like this joke only gets 109 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: better the more that we try to over explain it. 110 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 1: Let it hang there. Yeah. So Nestlee is named for 111 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: its primary food wizard, on Re Nestle. He was born 112 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: August tenth, eighteen fourteen. On Red. Nestle begins his career 113 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: as a pharmacist assistant before moving to Switzerland and qualifying 114 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: to practice as a pharmacist and chemist. So that's pretty cool. 115 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: He moves on to become a pharmacist and chemist. That's 116 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: a great job to have. Sure, that's chemist that's cool. Yeah, 117 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: and this was a this was a much broader term 118 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: back in the eight hundreds, right, a chemist could be 119 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: mixing any sort of thing, you know, an agglomeration of potions. 120 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: For for ri Uh, one of his primary focuses was 121 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: always food science. He experimented with other stuff like cement, 122 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: which hopefully was not a food experiment, but he also 123 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: experiment with lemonade, cooking oils. Eventually he moves towards this 124 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: idea of condensed milk or some sort of replacement for 125 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: breast milk for nursing parents. Yeah. Condensed milk was developed 126 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: by Gail Borden, Yes, that Borden in the United States 127 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: and the eighteen fifties, and was hugely important in feeding 128 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: Civil War troops. Right. Yeah, it's weird because nowadays, I 129 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: don't I don't know about everyone. It can't speak for everyone, 130 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: but nowadays condensed milk seems like it has a bit 131 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: of a a niche, you know what I mean. It's 132 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: not super widespread. No one's no one's going to a 133 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: restaurant and saying, you know, I'll have the number three 134 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: with condensed milk to drink. Yeah, and well it's it 135 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,559 Speaker 1: was a much needed product for a lot of people 136 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: at the time. Sure, you know these days, I think 137 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: it's mostly a baking ingredient. You're buying sweeten and condensed 138 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: milk to put in like a pumpkin pie or something 139 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: like that. But um, yeah, you know that this was 140 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: back in the what like eighteen sixties eighteen seventies. This 141 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,599 Speaker 1: was before refrigeration technology was a thing, and it was 142 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: also a time when industrialization was on the rise, and 143 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: along with that this increase in concern about food purity. 144 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: You know, more people were moving into cities away from 145 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 1: sources of fresh foods. Um, more foods were being manufactured, 146 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: but regulations had not been set up yet. And there 147 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: was also this religiously influenced temperance movement UM or a 148 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: series of movements going on in both America and Europe 149 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: where people were thinking harder about what they put in 150 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: their bodies. So like, all of this lead to this thing. 151 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: We're condensed milk being marketed and to be fair generally 152 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: created to be safe and long lasting, um and so 153 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: they were considered good products, right yeah, because it's dependable too, 154 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: and it's consistent, which I think was a huge deal. 155 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: So in eighteen sixty seven, Just like a year after 156 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 1: saying I'm gonna work with condensed milk, nestlely develops this 157 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: milk based baby food that he calls farine lecti, which 158 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: is I'm woefully mispronouncing that it means flour with milk 159 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: in English. So it's cow's milk, wheat flour and sugar too, 160 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: you know, I guess sweeten the whole contraption. And as 161 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: we know, whenever you hear stories about inventors or inventions, 162 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: it's usually pretty difficult to pin an entire invention on 163 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: a single person. Yeah. I think there were two or 164 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: three people who were developing a very similar product around 165 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: the same time, first in the form of a liquidn 166 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: densed food, and then very shortly afterwards in terms of 167 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: like a powdered condensed food. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And we 168 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: remember nest Lee as a pioneer of baby formula because 169 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: this baby formula was a catalyst for his company, really 170 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:22,479 Speaker 1: propelled the growth of the entire operation nest Lee. Originally, 171 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: according to this story, nest Lee develops this because he 172 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: knows that some new mothers cannot breastfeed or some infants 173 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: cannot be breast fed. For one reason or another, and 174 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: this invention, if he can get it off the ground, 175 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: will help mitigate the cartoonishly high infant mortality rates of 176 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, things were bad for infants back then. 177 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: And this is a real thing where once children, once 178 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: very young children, start eating any formula of this kind, 179 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: it's very very difficult for them to get back onto 180 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: like a breast milk or something if you're trying to 181 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: switch back. Um, I'm not saying this is a terrible 182 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: They did a great thing to stop babies from dying, 183 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: but it also creates this whole other problem that we're 184 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: going to maybe talk about a little bit later on. Sure. Yeah, 185 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 1: and there's also the issue of once a mother stops 186 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: producing milk for her infant because of the switch to 187 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: a formula, then it's hard for her to kick start 188 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: it again. Um. And previous to this technology, to this 189 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: food technology being invented, your your only recourse if you 190 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: couldn't personally breastfeed your child was to hire a wet nurse. 191 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: And of course that's not a thing that everyone had 192 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,079 Speaker 1: financial access to. And this would be essentially someone who 193 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: breastfeeds your baby for you, right, Yes, yeah, absolutely, you 194 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: can see how difficult. That would be for a ton 195 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: of people in this area in Switzerland, but also throughout 196 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: the world most people, I think it's safe to say 197 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: most people. And in eighteen sales are taking off. He's 198 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: doing super well, gangbusters. Uh. Nestleie sells his company and 199 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: his factory to three local businessmen who aggressively expand both 200 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: the research and the sales departments. Around this time, even 201 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: before that expansion, Nestle products are sold everywhere from Indonesia 202 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: to Argentina, again a global supply chain which, as as 203 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: you point out, Lauren, is super difficult to pull off 204 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: without refrigeration or planes. They're just I guess going by 205 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: boat huh and train probably rail. But where's the chocolate 206 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: you're wondering right? Possibly? Uh. In eighteen seventy nine, Nestle 207 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: merges with Daniel Peter, who is arguably the inventor of 208 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: milk chocolate, at least he's the one and gets the 209 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: credit for it. Right before then, they had been selling 210 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: some of their condensed milk products to that guy, and 211 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: that's kind of how his milk chocolate isness started off. 212 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 1: And it's gonna rolled up into each other, yeah, which 213 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: which makes sense. That's the way a lot of business 214 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: relationships tend to go right. So thank you Daniel Peter 215 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: for milk chocolate. I think it's weird that you have 216 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: two first names, but yes, thank you. Hey, some of 217 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: us just have that affliction. Okay, Oh Matt, I am 218 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: so sorry. I just realized that. I guess it feels 219 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: normal because we hang out all the time. But Daniel Peter, 220 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: it's just it's a weird name. It's the name I 221 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: would use as a fake name. So my profound apologies 222 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: if you if I've made you feel slighted. My old friend, uh, 223 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: Daniel Peter did some great stuff. He you know, invented 224 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: milk chocolate. People generally like that because of him. Kit 225 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: cats exist. Yes, they're delicious, they're great. The Japanese ones, 226 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: the green tea one was so much better than I 227 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: thought it would be. Yeah, I've got some banana ones 228 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: in my desk right now. Their life changing. I see 229 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: you also like to live dangerously. If they're that, could 230 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: I could I try one? After a So. In nineteen 231 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: o five, nest Lee or the company founded rather merges 232 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: with an outfit called the Anglo Swiss con Densed Milk 233 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: Company and they form what is now known as the 234 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: Nestle Group. They have a bunch of mergers and name changes, 235 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: but today we call them nestlely s A. And they 236 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: are the world's largest fast moving consumer goods company in 237 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: terms of revenue. They make a ton of money. Yes, 238 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: get this. In sen there was a total revenue for 239 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: Nestle s A, the actual name of the company now 240 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: of ninety point eight billion dollars with a B. Holy cropola, 241 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: that's a that's a lot of kit cats saw those. 242 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: So it's partially my fault. They they're still headquartered in Switzerland. 243 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: They employ over three thousand people. They own more than 244 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: two thousand different brands. If you shop in a mainstream 245 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: grocery store, you're probably by more Nestly stuff than you think. 246 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: They also own almost factories in countries across the world. 247 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: Their most popular products are powdered and liquid beverages. Still, 248 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: which is which I think is interesting and and this 249 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: is the point where we have to encounter ethics and 250 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: philosophy for a second, because we'll often hear pop philosophers 251 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: say that you know, at the heart of every fortune 252 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: lay some great crime. Uh, and that's it's not something 253 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: you could really prove. But there's an argument people make 254 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: that says, no company or individual can attain this much 255 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: financial success without at some point along the way engaging 256 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: in unethical or at the very least controversial activity, and 257 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: Nestle is no different. Yeah. Um, there are a lot 258 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: of critics of this company that exists that you will 259 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: find online especially, and theseis ms don't just come from 260 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: people who disagree with the company's um strategies, their investment strategies. 261 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: There there is a very deep and dark rabbit hole 262 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: that we're about to go down. People. Right after a 263 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: quick word from our sponsor, here's where it gets crazy. 264 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: Nest Lee is accused of a ton of dastardly activities 265 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: around the planet. The first one, which might be surprising 266 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: to some people familiar to others is nest Lee's uh, 267 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: Nestle's water business. Yeah, you've seen Nestlee water bottled water, 268 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: probably somewhere near a grocery store, in a grocery store 269 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: at a queen um. And you may have also seen 270 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: San Pellegrino or Peria, their sparkling versions somewhere on the shelves. Yeah. 271 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, a documentary called We Feed 272 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: the world came out. Wow, that's a little pompous, but 273 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: that's okay, and it featured the CEO of Nesley at 274 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: the time, a guy named Peter bra bec Limite, and 275 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: he made this observation that became infamous and went viral, 276 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: and we have the quote today Utt Matt, would you 277 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 1: want to do the honors? Water is, of course the 278 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: most important raw material we have today in the world. 279 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: It's a question of whether we should privatize the normal 280 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 1: water supply for the population, and there are two different 281 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: opinions on the matter. One opinion, which I think is extreme, 282 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: is represented by the NGOs non governmental organizations, who bang 283 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 1: on about declaring water a public right. That means that 284 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: as a human being, you should have a right to water. 285 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: That's an extreme solution. The other view says that water 286 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: is a food stuff like any other and like any 287 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: other food stuff, it should have a market value person only. 288 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: I believe it's better to give a food stuff of 289 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: value so that we are all aware it has a price, 290 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: and then that one should take specific measures for the 291 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: part of the population that has no access to this water. 292 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: And there are many different possibilities there. I added a 293 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: little emphasis in there, but you can hear how sinister 294 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: that could sound. I think the evil it's there. I 295 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: don't think these NGOs trying to make water a public right. 296 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: A lot of Nestleie critics interpreted this as an attack 297 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: on the poor, attack on community suffering from drought and 298 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: other people in the margins of society who cannot afford 299 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 1: to pay this quote market price for water. He did 300 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 1: walk the statement back a little bit in after this 301 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: public outcry, as you can possibly imagine, um, he said. 302 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: He said in a YouTube video that Ale released, I 303 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: have always supported the human right to water. Everyone should 304 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: have enough safe, clean water to meet their fundamental daily needs, 305 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: but not to fill a pool or wash a car water. 306 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: And then he talked for a minute about how it's 307 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: a very precious resource and how we're kind of running 308 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: out or I mean, you know how there's different areas 309 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: that don't have a lot of access to it and 310 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: any furthermore, said water should be better managed, should be 311 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,479 Speaker 1: better valued. If we give water value, they will be 312 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: incentive to invest in looking after our supply. Yeah, so 313 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: you can see the logic. He's not he's not really 314 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: changing the content of what he's saying. He's framing it 315 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: in a different way. Ultimately, he's saying, we got to 316 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: respect water enough that it's valuable enough that we're not 317 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: going to pollute it too bad. And I've heard I've 318 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: heard similar arguments advanced about human life. Oh, if there's 319 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: enough of a value, we should value that as well. 320 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: If we're assigning value to things, I mean, that's that 321 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: whole idea of selling bullets for more than a gun. 322 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: I mean, if we can't sell bullets and people, then 323 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: really what are we doing here? No, keep it. We 324 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: do want to be clear, that was not a quote 325 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: from the CEO, right, No, no, no, no, that was 326 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: just my own sarcasm. Sarcasm folks, Oh goodness, they don't 327 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: know me here. So this it's interesting too because there's 328 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: a little bit of double think or a paradox here 329 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 1: in that nest Lee has a successful bottled water business 330 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: because they are treating water as a public good by 331 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: extracting it from land lease agreements where they just have 332 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: access to the resources on the land. So they're not 333 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: putting a huge value on it on their side. The 334 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: value changes depending on their profit margin. Right, But they're 335 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 1: the world's largest supplier of bottled water. Yeah, seven percent 336 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: of their sales come from bottled water. That's about seven 337 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: point seven billion worldwide in recent years, and seven point 338 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: seven billion dollars worth of bottled water just from them. Yeah, 339 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: for kind of scope, I don't have a number for 340 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,959 Speaker 1: the whole world worth of water, of the water industry, 341 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: the bottled water industry, but just in the United States 342 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 1: it was worth eighteen point five billion dollars in and 343 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: was growing, and now they own what sixty four different 344 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: bottled water brands across the planet. The big question is, oh, no, no, 345 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: we gotta say these. We gotta say these because you 346 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: you're drinking these, you might have one in your hand 347 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: right now. Deer Park guilty on my end. Poland Spring 348 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: also guilty. Aquapana not so much. San Pellegrino. Sure, perry 349 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: A sometimes, but only when I'm feeling fancy springs, water park, 350 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: and waterline. I would add to that pure life, which 351 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: is huge in other countries. So where do they get 352 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: all this water? It turns out that they're taking it 353 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: from you if you are the resident of many rural 354 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: communities cross the US, in Brazil, in Bangladesh, in Pakistan, 355 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: in Europe. But how Ben I'm so glad you asked, Matt. 356 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: Thank you. They similar to the Daniel day Lewis character, 357 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: and there will be blood. They're drinking your milkshake. They're 358 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,959 Speaker 1: they're buying up areas that give them access to groundwater 359 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: or springs, and they're using that to they're using that 360 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: to fill the bottles. But as they're draining these aquifers, 361 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: they're moving the water away from where it would have 362 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: naturally existed. That's it's a it's such a perfect example 363 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: there and the Daniel day Lewis character from there will 364 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: be blood because these aquifers are so massive underneath the 365 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: land where people are walking around on all day. You 366 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 1: don't realize that they're down there. But if if you 367 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: can put, you know, a series of pipes down into 368 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: the aquifer at one point in this massive space of water, 369 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: you could just suck it right up like that milkshake. 370 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: It's such a good it's it's perfect and terrible and real. 371 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: And and to add to that there, the company is 372 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: so large that they have um they have acquired a 373 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of influence, especially in smaller communities. We don't 374 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: know exactly how much water that they've been extracting with 375 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: this method. But in some journalists found that Nestley had 376 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 1: been illegally draining water from lands that were leased by 377 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: the Morongo Band of Mission Indians in a desert area. 378 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: And they've also been taken water from the San Bernardino 379 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,239 Speaker 1: National Forest. They did have a permit to do this, 380 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: it expired in Is that just? Is that? Is that 381 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: just something that got overlooked because it's a huge operation. Well, 382 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: I mean also another number related to that instance, they 383 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: had been paying five four dollars a year to extract 384 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: about thirty million gallons of water there, including during the drought. 385 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: So you can already see how this profit margin is 386 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: going to work out, right that an independent analysis put 387 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: the total water extraction at UM one billion gallons per 388 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: year over time. And if we think about how many 389 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: bottles of water that is, right, what what was it? 390 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 1: Twelve ounce bottle of water, sixteen ounces something like that? Sure, yeah, 391 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: something like that. Sure that those sound like numbers, So 392 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: so we can see just how little they would be paying, 393 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 1: even with the cost of transportation infrastructure, how little they're 394 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: paying to produce these, right, And I and I did 395 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: want to put in here that like, while we can 396 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: all agree that drinking bottled water is better for our 397 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,400 Speaker 1: health than drinking bottled soda. The marketing of bottled water 398 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: as safer or healthier than tap water for for the 399 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: general population is, and this is a scientific term, a 400 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: bunch of huei. Um. The stuff was safer in the 401 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: eighteenth and nineteenth centuries for like people instead in cities 402 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: who didn't want cholera or typhoid or dysentery um. And 403 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: then later, of course, in the nineteen eighties, when the 404 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: EPA found a lot of lead and a lot of 405 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: drinking water, but like these problems were fixable. Public health 406 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: movements in the early twentieth century created free, filtered chlorinated 407 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: water for many developed cities, removing concerns of disease, and 408 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: in most part cities rushed to solve the lead issues 409 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: in the eighties and nineties, but they put fluoride in 410 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: the water instead. They do I'm sure that's a whole 411 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: other episode that I'm sure you guys have done more 412 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: than once. It's fine, but okay, so, but bottled water 413 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: has roots in health impurity movements of the eighteen hundreds, 414 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: kind of like I was talking about earlier. Um, folks 415 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: then started selling bottled water from places like Saratoga Springs 416 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: like to rich people. Um, mostly because right, yeah, yeah, 417 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: it's likely this is fan to mineral water and it's 418 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 1: naturally carbonated because we don't have good carbonation technology yet, 419 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: so we'll drink it and it's healthy and stuff. Um 420 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: but I don't know why my ghost voice is also 421 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: my true anyway. Um. But yeah, so mostly it wasn't 422 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: a thing among people. Bottled water was not a thing 423 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: among people who didn't have another choice until the nineteen seventies, 424 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 1: and that's when pet plastic went commercial and Perier started 425 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: sponsoring athletic events like the New York City Marathon in 426 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: order to push the healthfulness of their water. Um. Even today, 427 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: with the aging infrastructure problems like we have in Flint 428 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: and on Canada's First Nations reserves, the majority of marketing 429 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: of bottled water is bent to that like health purity image, 430 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: Like what should be an emergency solution for temporarily unsafe 431 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: water is being sold as a lifestyle. Now you get 432 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: bottled water in a nice glass bottle that you find 433 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: in your fancy schmancy hotel rooms in Philadelphia. That's true. 434 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: That's true. There wasn't actually much water in those bottles, 435 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: almost no water in there. I forget the name of 436 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: that brand, Voss Voss Water. Yes, the bottles are pretty. 437 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: They are you know, they're They're a real statement. That's 438 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: how That's how I felt when I was when I 439 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: got one from the hotel we're at we're on the road. 440 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, I'm gonna walk around with this and 441 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: feel like I'm I'm saying something. I don't know what 442 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: it is, but I'm making a statement about something. I 443 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 1: think it's just a noise. And it's like, that's what 444 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: I'm saying. So this continues this there's more to this 445 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: water story. But let's bracket that for a second and 446 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: look at another huge controversy with Nestley, which is the 447 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: idea of baby formula. Just like back in the late 448 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, Nestlie remains invested in formula and baby food products, 449 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: but the problem nowadays centers less on the product itself 450 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: and more on the marketing. And I'm using that term 451 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: in a very generous way. Well, by the first decade 452 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, Nestle ads were saying stuff like 453 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 1: don't wait too long before you wean the baby. If 454 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: you do, the little one is likely to be weak 455 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: in anemic. They admitted in these ads that breast milk 456 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: was the best for young babies, but for babies six 457 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: months and up, they said that their product was the 458 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: nearest thing in the world. And this splendid triumph of 459 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: care and science. It's so like mother's milk that the 460 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 1: tiny stomach won't notice the difference. Nest lee that which 461 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: is wrong, so wrong, so so wrong. Oh sure, and 462 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: we've we've done a lot of not us personally, but 463 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: but researchers have done a lot into looking into this 464 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: in the past few decades. And yeah, breat breast milk 465 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: is better. Breast milk is like the best thing. If 466 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: we could, all right now, everybody listening to this be 467 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: just drinking breast milk instead of coffee, we'd be good 468 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: to go. This is this is for real. Well, well, 469 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: certainly you can. You can get some some antibody is 470 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: I like that he's passionate. I like that your passionate. 471 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: I learned a lot about it when we had a kid. 472 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: It's just it's incredible stuff. But not everyone has evolved 473 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: the genetic mutation to drink milk into adulthood. It's just something. 474 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: There are a lot of problems with the thing that 475 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: I said. It's just I was being hyperbolic. I'm sorry. 476 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: Don't don't everyone do that ever? Please? I mean, also, 477 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: until until men really start figuring out how to lactate 478 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: more regularly, I think I think we're going to have 479 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: a supply chain problem. Yeah, just gragistically really tried. And 480 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: nest Lee also wanted to um lacktate. Well, they guess 481 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: they're kind of your nemesis here. They wanted people to 482 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: stop lactating. Right, they became big formula. These ads are 483 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: categorically wrong, right, someone say it. It's ethically wrong, but 484 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: it's definitely the science doesn't bear out, is the problem. 485 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: And in the nine nineties, probably knowing this already, Nestley 486 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: began pushing formula aggressively in developing and poor countries, specifically 487 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: targeting the poorest among them, and they had campaigns that 488 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: were meant to make formulas seem um equally as as 489 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: good for the kid, if not better than breast milk. 490 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: But the first problem here that crops up is in 491 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: a medical sphere. A lot of these countries don't have 492 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: great water infrastructure, and you have to have sanitary water 493 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: to use this powdered formula. I believe it was powdered 494 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: at that time. So if you don't have access to 495 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: clean water, or you don't have access to the technology 496 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: to boil the water, or you don't speak the language 497 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: that uh in which the instructions are printed on the container, 498 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,719 Speaker 1: what good is uh? What good are English instructions If 499 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: there's a place where the country has thirty different languages 500 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: and the main one is Portuguese. Yeah, I know, Hey, 501 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: I think NESTLEI needed to get on that hobo code. 502 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: You know what I mean in hobo code? Yeah, this 503 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: this comes out after after right, so we can say 504 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: hobo code and don't have to explain what it is. Perfect, 505 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: it's just what we're talking about. I was at your show. Yes, 506 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: oh why oh, sorry, thanks for coming problem anytime. I 507 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: can tell it meant a lot to you. Yeah. But 508 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: Neslee does seem to have knowingly ignored these risks, the 509 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: risk of improper creation of the formula, the risk of 510 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: unsanitary water, the health the health complications that arrive when 511 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: a child is put on formula, and this was this 512 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: concern was cast aside EUNICEF estimates that a formula fed child, 513 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: by the way, just for some facts, living in a 514 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: disease written and unhygienic condition is going to be between 515 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: six and twenty five times more likely to die of 516 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: diarrhea and four times more likely to die of pneumonia 517 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: in comparison to a child that has been breastfed, because well, 518 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: there's a there's a natural filter there, which is the 519 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: mom so you filter is a lot of that bad 520 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: stuff out, It's true. Yeah, And there's another problem, which 521 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,719 Speaker 1: is that if we're talking about destitute communities, often mothers 522 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: would tend to use less formula than was needed because 523 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: they wanted to make it last longer, because you see, 524 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: all right, So there's this thing called the International Baby 525 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: Food Action Network. It's a real thing. I think it's 526 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,239 Speaker 1: a great name for an extremist group. They are not. 527 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: It sounds like a kid's TV show or something, Baby 528 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: Action Network, you know what I mean. I would watch 529 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: that show. I would I would check it out. I 530 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: would give it a chance. I don't know if I 531 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,479 Speaker 1: would make it through the whole season, but I'll just 532 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: ask you. But dude, they've got some crazy allegations. Right, 533 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: it's not crazy, they're just intense, right because Nestleie, they 534 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: according to their belief for their allegations, Nestleie distributes free 535 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: formula samples in hospitals and maternity wards across these countries, 536 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: knowing that this will interfere with the natural actation process, 537 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: and not only in these in these less developed countries, 538 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: but also in the United States also in places where 539 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: we don't need that. Wow, yeah, we got a bunch 540 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: of samples when when we had our child, a ton 541 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: of stuff sent home with us for free uh formulas. 542 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: That's the thing. That's the thing, because once this has 543 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: interfered with the natural actation process and you go away 544 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: from the hospital of the maternity world or what have you, 545 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: you find out that the formula is no longer free. 546 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: So the Baby Food Action Network says that Nestlee is 547 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: operating under the guise of humanitarian aid, but what they're 548 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: really trying to do is to create market, a captive market. 549 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: At that they say, nest Lee is purposefully Nestle is 550 00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: aware that this interference with natural note production can occur, 551 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: and they wanted to that's the argument. Yeah, that's a 552 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: that's a heavy accusation. Um, I wish it didn't feel 553 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: so real. So like correct, I wish it didn't. So 554 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: you think it you think it was nefarious in some way, 555 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: like you think it was not just it was nefarious, 556 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: whether they meant to or not. Right, I mean, if 557 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: this is actually happening, if they're giving all these free 558 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: examples which we have seen I have seen personally, it's 559 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,399 Speaker 1: it's not so great. Well, and then the argument could 560 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: be that maybe the corporate heart is in the right place. Yeah, 561 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: we're just giving you free things, but we just neglected 562 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: to understand the long term consequences. Well right up until 563 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,760 Speaker 1: someone said, hey, there's long term consequences, at which point 564 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: you know, they did keep going. They did keep going. 565 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: They did keep going. And they could certainly have a 566 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 1: program where they offer these supplies for free to hospitals 567 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: and maternity awards for patients who need them, for patients 568 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: who request them for specific cases where for whatever reason, 569 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: the mother or the baby cannot breastfeed. And there have 570 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: been there have been doctors in some developing countries who 571 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: say that the way the way this stuff should work 572 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: is that they should have to write prescriptions for former 573 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: they should put that filter up because writing a prescription 574 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: on their end would be free, but it would also 575 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: be a way to keep the doctor involved, the the 576 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: you know, medical provider of there we go. That's the one. 577 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: I don't know why that was difficult for me, but 578 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: but it's it's true. This has been something that's been 579 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: brewing for a long long time. Nestlee, for their part, 580 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: denies all the accusations, all the accusations across the board, 581 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: and they said, we don't even know where to start 582 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: looking to figure out if this is true, because there's 583 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: no you haven't given us anything specific enough. But still 584 00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: this led to a large push for Boycott's. The first 585 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,359 Speaker 1: US boycott off Nestley begins in July of seventy nine, 586 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: seventy seven, and then it spreads to Europe and in 587 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: one the World Health Assembly adopts a code um a 588 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: policy on the marketing of breast milk substitutes, which sounds 589 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,280 Speaker 1: very specific, and they say it is a minimum requirement 590 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,919 Speaker 1: that has to be adopted in its entirety. In eighty four, 591 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 1: Nestle ascents and they can implement the code. Boycott gets suspended, 592 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: but surprise, surprise, it came back in nineteen because most 593 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: people who had a problem with it pre boycott said 594 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: that they didn't fix anything post boycott. So that's the 595 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: story of Nestle and infant formula. Well, I like that 596 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: we start with kids. Let's do you want to stick 597 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: with kids? I think we should, but I think we 598 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: need an ad break between this, just as a bit 599 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: of a palate cleanser. Um. If that's okay, okay, let's 600 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: hear for from some sponsors. We're back with a twisted segue. 601 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: I believe we set this up as UM. We we enjoy. 602 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,240 Speaker 1: It's not the right word for our conversation about formula. 603 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: But we do want to stick with kids because it 604 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: turns out that there's more to the story. Nest Lee 605 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 1: isn't just participating in a cover up or a conspiracy 606 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,879 Speaker 1: to UH to extract water from small communities. It's not 607 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: just through either incompetence or nefarious designs UM forcing children 608 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 1: to drink baby formula. It's it's also cutting out the 609 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: middleman of exploitation entirely and and diving right into UM 610 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,760 Speaker 1: as we established earlier, UH slavery, human trafficking, child labor, 611 00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. At least it's being a 612 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 1: used of such, and there are some there's some evidence 613 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: to show that it's it's been happening in the supply chain, 614 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 1: right chocolate, right now, We're not saying it's it's not 615 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: like we're saying there's some crazy corporate psychopath with like 616 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,839 Speaker 1: a monocle and a candy bar top hats lugging down 617 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: sam Pello Grenos as he snatches children off the street. 618 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 1: But hopefully not, hopefully not. But it is true, like 619 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,359 Speaker 1: you said, Lauren, with chocolate, and like you said, Matt, 620 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 1: with the supply chain, there's compelling evidence that they're the 621 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: people they are buying products from, cocoa beans and so on, 622 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: that those folks are engaging in slavery, child labor, human trafficking, 623 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 1: and pretty gruesome acts of abuse. In two thousand and five, 624 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: the International Labor Rights Fund filed one of those lawsuits 625 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: against Nestley and several other companies on behalf of three 626 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,439 Speaker 1: children from Molly in the sud allege that these kids 627 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: were traffic of the Ivory Coast, where they were enslaved, 628 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,720 Speaker 1: where they were abused on a regular basis, and forced 629 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: to work on a cocoa plantation. Uh not great. Case 630 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: went on for years right exactly. In two thousand ten, 631 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: the U. S. District Court for the Central District of California, 632 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:23,919 Speaker 1: they determined that corporations cannot be held liable for violations 633 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: of international law and dismissed this suit. Isn't that isn't 634 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: that special as they say, Uh, this was of course 635 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: a controversial decision when since then it has been appealed. 636 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,359 Speaker 1: But isn't it isn't that crazy that and a corporation 637 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: cannot be or at least the thought at the time 638 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: was that this corporation can't be held liable for violations 639 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 1: of international law through its practices of creating products, right, 640 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: especially when it's an international corporation. Yeah, that's a good point. 641 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 1: I guess The logic there is that it would be 642 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,320 Speaker 1: a huge hindrance to business operations and a huge expense 643 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: to have to send people to every place physically to 644 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: check on these things. And people need needs, you know 645 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: people everyone, people everywhere need needs. Yeah, oh man, everyone 646 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,280 Speaker 1: everyone needs. Now this isn't restricted to a single incident, 647 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: that's the problem. There was a report done by an 648 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 1: independent auditor, a group called the Fair Labor Association, and 649 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: they said that they found Nestleie committed multiple serious violations 650 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: of its own internal labor code. So it's corporate laws, 651 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: let alone the laws of the land and the state. 652 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:45,399 Speaker 1: This was at the very least a large degree of negligence, 653 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: if not tacit approval of slavery and child labor. And 654 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:53,399 Speaker 1: here's the thing. Nestlely commissioned the study. Nestie said, show 655 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,720 Speaker 1: us what we need to know. And the fair labor 656 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 1: folks came back and they're like, wow, this is monstrous 657 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: and they're like, whoa, really, it's crazy, no way, no 658 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 1: what not us And uh, we have a quote from 659 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: then executive vice president for operations, Jose Lopez, the use 660 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: of child labor in our coco supply chain it goes 661 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,319 Speaker 1: against everything we stand for. No company sourcing cocoa from 662 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: the Ivory Coast can guarantee that it doesn't happen, but 663 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,919 Speaker 1: we can say that tackling child labor is a top 664 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: priority for our company. Okay. So again, the argument is 665 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 1: that no company of that size, especially could be certain 666 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: of how their suppliers are behaving, especially they seem to 667 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 1: say in this area of the world. It's not surprising 668 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,360 Speaker 1: that critics remained unsatisfied with that response, and as of 669 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 1: this recording and estimated one point eight million children in 670 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: West Africa Loan are at risk of becoming a victim 671 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: of child labor. Yeah, Okay, he's gonna take a breather 672 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 1: here for a second. Yeah, maybe it was too much 673 00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 1: to have another child related one. But maybe we should stay. 674 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: Maybe we should stay geopolitical, Maybe we should go to 675 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: another country. So should we talk about like corporations going 676 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:14,240 Speaker 1: in and strong arming countries by making them payback massive debts. 677 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: So this is a weird one. In two thousand and two, 678 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:23,320 Speaker 1: Ethiopia was in the grips of a nationwide brutal famine 679 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,400 Speaker 1: and nest Lee came to Ethiopia in its time of 680 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,120 Speaker 1: need and said, you owe us six million dollars. Uh. 681 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 1: This claim dates back to nineties seventies when the military 682 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,720 Speaker 1: of Ethiopius sees the assets of foreign companies. But things 683 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: took a turn because the public found out about this 684 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,760 Speaker 1: and they began to speak up. Oh yes, the company 685 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: received over forty thousand letters from people who were absolutely outraged. UH. 686 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,360 Speaker 1: In one of the most famous cases of public opinion 687 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 1: beat corporate greed that exists on the planet. UH. In 688 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: the end, Nestley took a U turn. They settled for 689 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: I guess, uh, partially money. Definitely. They're like, okay, okay, guys, 690 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,320 Speaker 1: look just give us some of it, will meet you halfway. Yeah. 691 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: In the end, Nestley did take a U turn and 692 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 1: they settled for just some of the debt. They still 693 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: took some cash. Yeah, we'll meet you halfway, right, right right, 694 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:25,359 Speaker 1: and uh. In their defense, they also took that money 695 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: that Ethiopia gave them and invested a portion of it too, 696 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,720 Speaker 1: in the country to help it bounce back from famine. 697 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,879 Speaker 1: That's very nice. It's really weird. It's it's they could 698 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: have just not taken the money. I don't know, but 699 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: maybe there's an argument that they had better international development 700 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,760 Speaker 1: experience and so would be better stewards of that money. 701 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 1: That's that's an argument you would hear. I could tell 702 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 1: it's very politely worded. I can I can read the 703 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,480 Speaker 1: room here in the podcast studio. I could tell that 704 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: you all are not persuaded. I'll check in with Paul 705 00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,040 Speaker 1: and see what he thinks. But while they were in 706 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:04,720 Speaker 1: Ethiopia around the same time, roughly, they made a deal 707 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: with the wife of the infamous dictator from Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe. 708 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,880 Speaker 1: May deal was wife Grace Mugabe to buy one million 709 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,839 Speaker 1: liters of milk a year from farms that she had 710 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:20,400 Speaker 1: taken over, because you see, Grace Mugabe had a booming 711 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 1: side business of taking over large farms in Zimbabwe that 712 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,879 Speaker 1: were white owned, at least six of them since two Yeah. Yeah, 713 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 1: and so this is building a farming empire from these 714 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:41,360 Speaker 1: legally confiscated farmlands. And you know, Zimbabwe has a very 715 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:48,399 Speaker 1: very upsetting history of racial tension, colonialism, resource extraction, and 716 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,920 Speaker 1: so on. But these farms were taken illegally, at least 717 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,400 Speaker 1: as far as the international community thinks. Well. Yeah, it 718 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,600 Speaker 1: led to another series of boycotts yet yet another um 719 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: as well as sanctions and both the European Union and 720 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,480 Speaker 1: the United States. Yeah, I know, it sounds like we're 721 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,640 Speaker 1: picking on Nestlie. These are just things that you probably 722 00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: don't know about a candy company. Even Canada got beefed 723 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,799 Speaker 1: up with him. Dude. They're a lean cuisine company. Okay, 724 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:17,319 Speaker 1: they're a dog food company. That's right, there are all things. 725 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 1: They're a hot pockets company, come on, and that at 726 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 1: the end of the day, that's what it is. At 727 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,960 Speaker 1: the end of the day. What matters more than hot 728 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:31,399 Speaker 1: pockets podcasts You can put anything in them. So let's 729 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:37,560 Speaker 1: talk about price fixing. Price fixing is a fun thing 730 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,759 Speaker 1: where companies work together, people who were in the same 731 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: market share to uh to control the prices of things. 732 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,399 Speaker 1: A lot of times it's to keep them high. Keep 733 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,800 Speaker 1: prices high. That way, everybody gets a lot of that moolah. 734 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,799 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's too strategically keep the prices low. Either way 735 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:59,759 Speaker 1: it's strategized. Well, guess what. Nestlee has been accused of 736 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,160 Speaker 1: this and they even got rated. Yeah, Nestlee Canada got 737 00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:08,359 Speaker 1: rated along with Hershey Canada and Mars Canada. They all 738 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,759 Speaker 1: have the word Canada in their names because they're the 739 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,319 Speaker 1: Canadian branch of the company. I feel like I'm over 740 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,640 Speaker 1: explaining that. It makes sense though, So these uh this company, 741 00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,160 Speaker 1: nest Lee and other companies the ones we just mentioned 742 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,279 Speaker 1: they're subject to a class action lawsuit are several of 743 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,040 Speaker 1: them per company, And ultimately they settled for nine million 744 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,759 Speaker 1: dollars without accepting as per usual, as we've learned on 745 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 1: this show, without accepting any liability, without admitting any guilt 746 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,000 Speaker 1: or any issues there is like, we did nothing wrong, 747 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 1: but here's a lot of money. It's is it a 748 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,919 Speaker 1: lot of money to them? How much do they make? 749 00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,759 Speaker 1: Ninety point eight billion in total revenue though that's not profit. Yeah, 750 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: and this is yeah Nestlee Canada doesn't rake in all 751 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,040 Speaker 1: that cash, but they rake in quite a bit, I'm assuming. Yeah, 752 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,120 Speaker 1: but they you know this, this happens a lot of 753 00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: lawsuits are settled out of court this way, right. Uh, 754 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,520 Speaker 1: they all so have been Look, they they're not hurting 755 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,520 Speaker 1: for money, that's true. Uh. They are a business though, 756 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:08,920 Speaker 1: and they need to be quite aware of where a 757 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,960 Speaker 1: profit can be found. That is why they have been 758 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,799 Speaker 1: involved in like the weirdest round of criticism regarding pollution. 759 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 1: It's nuts in a cercuitous way. Nestley actually makes some 760 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: some real scratch, some solid cheese off of pollution. They now, yeah, yeah, okay, 761 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:31,960 Speaker 1: the main the main part of that this is going 762 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,359 Speaker 1: to go back to water. But they have historically and 763 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:40,040 Speaker 1: sometimes still do source inexpensive palm oil, and palm oil 764 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,200 Speaker 1: is is a vegetable oil made from the fruit of 765 00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,759 Speaker 1: oil palm trees. Makes sense, right, Uh. It goes into 766 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,960 Speaker 1: a lot of their candies and other products that include 767 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,759 Speaker 1: processed fats, and it's a crop that fuels a lot 768 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,840 Speaker 1: of deforestation, endangers a lot of species, like the cute 769 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,200 Speaker 1: ones like like tigers and rang tang stuff like that, 770 00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,360 Speaker 1: and it creates a lot of pollution in the areas 771 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,959 Speaker 1: where they're grown and process to Africa, Asia and South 772 00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:07,320 Speaker 1: America primarily. Are you saying tigers are cute? Yeah, tigers 773 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: are terrifying. Tigers are amazing. They're majestic. Kidders, I didn't 774 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:18,239 Speaker 1: mean that sounds so definitive about that. I yeah, did 775 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,719 Speaker 1: you have a bad time with tigers? I mean, I 776 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,279 Speaker 1: have a three year old and I've been reading about 777 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 1: tigers everywhere, and uh, just I've been to the zoo 778 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: a lot lately. The tiger is crazy scary, It's huge. 779 00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:36,440 Speaker 1: It would eat you, just your face off. With cats, Yeah, 780 00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,560 Speaker 1: it's just the size thing. Tigers are also brilliant. They 781 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,080 Speaker 1: have This is a too of this does have anything 782 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 1: to do with this episode, but um tigers who have 783 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,359 Speaker 1: been wounded in the wild and Siberian stuff. If they 784 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:55,920 Speaker 1: managed to escape, they are able to like Corvid's remember 785 00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:00,320 Speaker 1: the smell and the appearance of the person who wounded them. 786 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,319 Speaker 1: And there's been at least one proven case where a 787 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:07,239 Speaker 1: tiger was attacked escaped in Siberia waited for winter to 788 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,120 Speaker 1: hit when it knew it. It stalked the guy for 789 00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 1: months and just waited for it to get too cold 790 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,040 Speaker 1: for to leave his house. And then you can see 791 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:19,080 Speaker 1: the footprints that the tiger walked around and increasingly closer spirals, 792 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,000 Speaker 1: and then it came through his back window, snatched him, uh, 793 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,799 Speaker 1: drug him out, and I don't remember what parts of 794 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,120 Speaker 1: the body they found. I'm not saying Richard Parker isn't 795 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:36,160 Speaker 1: a badass assassin. I'm just saying, uh, yikes, that's all. 796 00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,879 Speaker 1: It's just I just take issue with them being cute, 797 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:40,840 Speaker 1: because I agree there are kitty cats, and kitty cats 798 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,600 Speaker 1: are cute, but they're big ole scare kitty cats that 799 00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:52,239 Speaker 1: will assassinate you after waiting. Okay, I think this isn't 800 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:58,919 Speaker 1: my new personality test. Oh no, uh also any research coast, 801 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:03,000 Speaker 1: the savior has a very fascinating personality test that I 802 00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 1: believe she was entirely making up on the spot. I 803 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,800 Speaker 1: can't think of what it might be, but that doesn't 804 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,520 Speaker 1: mean that it didn't exist previously. I love to ask 805 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,239 Speaker 1: you about it. I love to ask you about it. 806 00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:17,759 Speaker 1: It's a good it's a good road trip conversation. So 807 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:25,160 Speaker 1: palm oil bad, palm oil is bad. Tigers, good tigers. Okay, 808 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:31,120 Speaker 1: but um, what about plastic bottles? How are they well? 809 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,280 Speaker 1: In the US and the West at large, increasing concern 810 00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,600 Speaker 1: over plastic bottles has sent more and more customers back 811 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,680 Speaker 1: to reusable bottles or tap water, you know, And this 812 00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:43,960 Speaker 1: is not Nestlie's profits down a bit. And I do 813 00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:47,439 Speaker 1: want to point out there's something very clever and very 814 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,400 Speaker 1: calculated at play here in the U S at least 815 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:55,759 Speaker 1: concerning consumer plastic. Of all, the plastic pollution that we 816 00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: hear about in the oceans of the world comes from 817 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:02,960 Speaker 1: commercial fisheries. It comes from gigantic nets and things of 818 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,359 Speaker 1: that nature. Yeah, the straws that you use are not 819 00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,839 Speaker 1: contributing that seriously compared to those items, to the great 820 00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,040 Speaker 1: Pacific raft and stuff like that. Right, right, And plastic 821 00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,400 Speaker 1: bottles do play a huge role in pollution. But again, 822 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,359 Speaker 1: don't let people run this sort of shell game on you. 823 00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,680 Speaker 1: It's I think it's brilliant that so many corporations have 824 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:28,440 Speaker 1: have had this change of heart moment, such great pr 825 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,400 Speaker 1: where they're like you know what we decided to be 826 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,000 Speaker 1: the change. We're going to make a difference here at 827 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,880 Speaker 1: can Glomco. No more straws, and people are like, oh, 828 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:42,680 Speaker 1: that's great, and you guys are really brave. But the 829 00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:46,400 Speaker 1: one other major, just because we're kind of a major 830 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,080 Speaker 1: contributing factor though, that I've been reading about more and 831 00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,880 Speaker 1: more are these little food pouches the people are buying 832 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,360 Speaker 1: where for kids and adults, like the kind of exactly 833 00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,319 Speaker 1: that have a little plastic tip, and that plastic top 834 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:03,239 Speaker 1: in particular is becoming a massive problem. And the other 835 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,400 Speaker 1: thing is have you guys have seen the the water 836 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,680 Speaker 1: bottle refillers around Atlanta and a lot of other cities. 837 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,240 Speaker 1: Have you seen these? It looks like a water fountaine. 838 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,319 Speaker 1: You just put your water bottle up to it and 839 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:19,239 Speaker 1: you can refill your water bottle. Yeah, so smart. I'm 840 00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,240 Speaker 1: just that makes me so happy when we're thinking about 841 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,799 Speaker 1: the pollution that, even though it's not as bad as 842 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,560 Speaker 1: commercial fisheries, the pollution that is generated from plastic products 843 00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:32,680 Speaker 1: like that. So how does how does nest Lee end 844 00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:34,920 Speaker 1: up making a profit off of this? To find the 845 00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:37,760 Speaker 1: answer there, we have to travel across the Pacific because 846 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,319 Speaker 1: sales maybe down in the US and the West, but 847 00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,640 Speaker 1: in China sales are up in part due to pollution. 848 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,280 Speaker 1: About seventy in China's lakes and rivers have been polluted. 849 00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,920 Speaker 1: Although people will tell you virtually all the surface water 850 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,480 Speaker 1: is now unsafe to drink in that country unless it's 851 00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,560 Speaker 1: been treated. I don't know how much of that is 852 00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,400 Speaker 1: exaggeration and how much of that bears up to scrutiny. 853 00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:03,240 Speaker 1: But have a ton of industrial facilities, power and chemical plants, 854 00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,799 Speaker 1: paper and textile factories, and this means that a lot 855 00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,440 Speaker 1: of the people living in the country don't trust the 856 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:14,279 Speaker 1: water or the purification infrastructure in China, so they buy 857 00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:18,360 Speaker 1: more and more bottled water from companies like Nestley, who again, 858 00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:20,719 Speaker 1: they make a huge margin out of this stuff. What 859 00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:22,879 Speaker 1: did you say earlier about California? They pay like five 860 00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:28,560 Speaker 1: hundred something a year, four dollars for every three hundred 861 00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:33,040 Speaker 1: million gallons, and you pay like minimum what dollar twenty 862 00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:36,080 Speaker 1: nine per bottle for twelve to six ounces. What do 863 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,920 Speaker 1: you think that twenty nine cents is about? It's to 864 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,440 Speaker 1: make it. You know? You know how this we didn't 865 00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,359 Speaker 1: you and I do something about pricing, Like why there 866 00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:48,720 Speaker 1: are so many nines. It's aspirational, but you're also saving 867 00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,240 Speaker 1: a penny. I don't think it works on us anymore 868 00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,960 Speaker 1: because now, uh, thirty seems like less to a lot 869 00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,040 Speaker 1: of people because there's a zero at the end. Yeah, 870 00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:03,840 Speaker 1: that's ridiculous, right, So so this whole idea goes back. 871 00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,200 Speaker 1: I think the most perhaps the most important thing here, 872 00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,440 Speaker 1: is that Nestily is a company that makes food stuffs. 873 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,440 Speaker 1: For the most part, they also make you know, we've 874 00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,560 Speaker 1: talked about all the other companies they have hand in, 875 00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:17,280 Speaker 1: but for the most part, they're creating products which you buy, 876 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,279 Speaker 1: you open up, throw away the packaging, and then eat 877 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,400 Speaker 1: the part that's edible. Right. That creates a lot of waste, 878 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:30,000 Speaker 1: a lot of trash. And it doesn't mean that, you know, 879 00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,839 Speaker 1: Nestle is for some nefarious purpose trying to take on 880 00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,640 Speaker 1: Captain Planet because they're bad guys. It's not like they're 881 00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,800 Speaker 1: seeing around like Montgomery Burns doing the you know, rubbing 882 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,520 Speaker 1: their hands together. There's a better word for that, like 883 00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,919 Speaker 1: like a little like like raccoon, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, 884 00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,880 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, just sort of just sort of rubbing their 885 00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:52,880 Speaker 1: own palms together and saying, how how how should we 886 00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:57,200 Speaker 1: ruin the world today. Yeah what what Someone's like, well, 887 00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,719 Speaker 1: we could I don't know. Um ah, got me on 888 00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:04,120 Speaker 1: the spot here, Monty. We could uh, we could start war, 889 00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,640 Speaker 1: we could poison the food. It's like no, no, no, 890 00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:12,320 Speaker 1: something more nuance. And then they're like okay, okay, um 891 00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:17,960 Speaker 1: um um uh pollute everything and they're like, have you 892 00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:22,719 Speaker 1: considered single use packaging? There you go exactly. It's not 893 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,799 Speaker 1: that they're not some super villain being evil like that. 894 00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:32,800 Speaker 1: They're the onesler. They're a giant corporation now making tons 895 00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:36,120 Speaker 1: and tons of products with tons and tons of packaging, 896 00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,640 Speaker 1: and that is just what happens when you do that, 897 00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,040 Speaker 1: and as people are you providing a huge boost to 898 00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:48,440 Speaker 1: economies and uh job opportunities. Those are another that's another 899 00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,719 Speaker 1: PC argument you'll hear watch the los although, hey, we're 900 00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,920 Speaker 1: not even talking about the industrial runoff from the industrial factories. 901 00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:00,759 Speaker 1: Who are who are creating these plastic products. That's true, Yeah, 902 00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:06,440 Speaker 1: that's absolutely true, and and unfortunately, unfortunately, you know, they 903 00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:11,680 Speaker 1: don't have to be a purposefully malevolent entity. If if 904 00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,840 Speaker 1: you're a corporation, job, as Matt said, to pursue a profit, 905 00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:19,759 Speaker 1: and that means that everything to a certain degree is 906 00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:24,440 Speaker 1: going to be a lower priority, including pollution. There are 907 00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,439 Speaker 1: very few companies in the world that would say we're 908 00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:29,560 Speaker 1: going to operate at a loss for ten years to 909 00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,200 Speaker 1: help make the world a better place. That's just not 910 00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:36,319 Speaker 1: a viable tenure plan. That's not something a company does. 911 00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,960 Speaker 1: So maybe not immoral, but immoral, And there we have it. 912 00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:42,680 Speaker 1: The world's largest food and beverage company is the subject 913 00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:47,719 Speaker 1: of numerous controversies, boycotts, criticisms, and arguably, yes, cover ups. 914 00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:52,320 Speaker 1: One thing we did cut from this episode was the 915 00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:56,640 Speaker 1: the delightful tale of the Fluoride Mafia, which is, yeah, 916 00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,720 Speaker 1: we found this. It's this group of people who believe 917 00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:05,360 Speaker 1: that Nestleie is so large because it is secretly charged 918 00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,760 Speaker 1: by some elite cabal with the task of putting fluoride 919 00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,920 Speaker 1: and everything. That's their big master plan. Fluoride and everything, 920 00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:16,520 Speaker 1: not not just the usual water, no, every everything, florid 921 00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:27,160 Speaker 1: flavored cats, floride flavored purina, biniful. It seems extreme. Hey, 922 00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,880 Speaker 1: do you have no comments on that one? I don't know. 923 00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:33,000 Speaker 1: I haven't researched to that. You wanna get involved with 924 00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,480 Speaker 1: big fluoride? Right? We all dose ourselves at least two 925 00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:41,960 Speaker 1: times a day, if we're good adults and our children. Yeah, 926 00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,480 Speaker 1: there you go, that's a bright side. Brush your teeth, 927 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,360 Speaker 1: there you go. So, so what happens now? What does 928 00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,160 Speaker 1: this mean for anyone who was already familiar with this 929 00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,960 Speaker 1: stuff or anyone who just learned about it? M If 930 00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:57,760 Speaker 1: you support Nestlie and disagree with its critics, if you 931 00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,520 Speaker 1: think they're being alarmist, or you think they're trying to 932 00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,520 Speaker 1: create problems where none really exists, then kudos, congrat you 933 00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:06,800 Speaker 1: you locked out? Life goes on as normal. Yeah, Eat 934 00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,919 Speaker 1: as many kit cats as you want. Yeah. Yeah, get 935 00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:13,479 Speaker 1: that purina and feed it your dogs and then put 936 00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:17,000 Speaker 1: that to Jorno in the oven. Crack open a nice 937 00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:21,959 Speaker 1: sand pelle Greno and watch the world burn. That's great. 938 00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,120 Speaker 1: Let's put that on a T shirt. Okay, tell us 939 00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:25,800 Speaker 1: if that should be a T shirt. Yeah, so we 940 00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,520 Speaker 1: should be doing more I GU commercials too. Yeah. I 941 00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:33,240 Speaker 1: believe Global Unlimited, the illuminated ones they have, they've got 942 00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,600 Speaker 1: something coming out or they've like like co sponsored something 943 00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:39,640 Speaker 1: that's coming out on Saver. Yeah. Over on Saver, we're 944 00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,920 Speaker 1: doing a reading of the Grim Brothers story The Almond Tree. 945 00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:45,600 Speaker 1: It's you know, it's about cannibalism. So we thought it 946 00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,560 Speaker 1: would be perfect for Thanksgiving. Um, so it's coming out 947 00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,600 Speaker 1: the Friday after Thanksgiving for our non American listeners, that 948 00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:55,320 Speaker 1: is November. Books for it. Share it with your loved ones, 949 00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,960 Speaker 1: don't give them a context, just like walk in during 950 00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:03,000 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving dinner, knock some stuff off the table, slam down 951 00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,160 Speaker 1: a boom box. You do need a boom box for this, 952 00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,920 Speaker 1: and then just just play it and pick one person 953 00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:15,080 Speaker 1: and make weirdly hostile eye contact with them. So so 954 00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:19,080 Speaker 1: definitely do that. Um you can. If you have any 955 00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,840 Speaker 1: questions or comments about Nestlee and any of the things 956 00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,280 Speaker 1: we've talked about today, you can find us on Twitter. 957 00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,320 Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook and Instagram conspiracy stuff. 958 00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,240 Speaker 1: With most of those conspiracy stuff show on Instagram, you 959 00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,600 Speaker 1: can you can call us. That's true, Matt. We are 960 00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:38,800 Speaker 1: one eight three three st d w y t K. Yeah. 961 00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:42,280 Speaker 1: I gotta always highlight that STD because the most important 962 00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,920 Speaker 1: is to be transparent about that. People know it's the 963 00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,320 Speaker 1: responsible thing to do. The other thing you can do 964 00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,640 Speaker 1: is join our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy. 965 00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,120 Speaker 1: That's where you can join a lot of us and 966 00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:57,080 Speaker 1: our fellow conspiracy realists. And just discuss things. Post some 967 00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,240 Speaker 1: dope memes. What kind of memes, dank I for get 968 01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:06,000 Speaker 1: the cool hip memes? You can post those there. Um. 969 01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:07,560 Speaker 1: That's so, that's where you can find us for the 970 01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:11,200 Speaker 1: most part. And we know what you're probably asking yourself. 971 01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,560 Speaker 1: You're probably like, guys, I know because you say this 972 01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,760 Speaker 1: stuff at the end of every show, right, I don't 973 01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,400 Speaker 1: care how to contact you. I already know how to 974 01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,080 Speaker 1: do it. Stop yelling std at me at the end 975 01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:28,320 Speaker 1: of the episode. But but you are probably wondering how 976 01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,840 Speaker 1: you can get in contact with Savor. Oh goodness, you 977 01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:35,120 Speaker 1: can find us. Yes, it's Savor the podcast. You can 978 01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:38,240 Speaker 1: look us up via any Internet search engine. You can 979 01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,400 Speaker 1: also find us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at savor 980 01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:45,240 Speaker 1: pod uh or email us at hello at savor pod 981 01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:47,760 Speaker 1: dot com. We we would we would love to hear 982 01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,920 Speaker 1: from you. And we occasionally get angry about giant corporations 983 01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:52,720 Speaker 1: on our show too, So I don't know, come tune 984 01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:55,040 Speaker 1: in listen to our sugar episodes. We get really angry. 985 01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,439 Speaker 1: I am a big fan of One of your more 986 01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,320 Speaker 1: recent pisodes has this title. I don't know if you've 987 01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:07,840 Speaker 1: heard this mayonnaise or mayonnaise like I don't want to 988 01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:13,320 Speaker 1: any why Yeah, yeah, any Annie strongly dislikes mann It's 989 01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:15,280 Speaker 1: it's one of her top five least favorite foods. It's 990 01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,720 Speaker 1: so fascinating, the story of mayonnaise and some of the 991 01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:21,040 Speaker 1: things you're talking about in the episode. It is genuinely fascinating. 992 01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:26,000 Speaker 1: And I love Manna. It's the European whatever blood I 993 01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:28,080 Speaker 1: have in me. I just want to dip my fries 994 01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:30,680 Speaker 1: in it. Just want to slather it on my sandwiches. 995 01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:33,280 Speaker 1: I do not care. I'll put it on a P 996 01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,600 Speaker 1: B and J what I'll do it. There's I mean, 997 01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:41,400 Speaker 1: live your life. I got your back. There's also a 998 01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:43,760 Speaker 1: a group of people that believes there is, for lack 999 01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:46,600 Speaker 1: of a better term, of Mayo conspiracy, right, Yeah, there 1000 01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:48,919 Speaker 1: was just a Twitter message about this, Yeah, that um 1001 01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:52,600 Speaker 1: that Big Mayo is like part of Big Agra, and 1002 01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,840 Speaker 1: that this is a problem specifically in the way that 1003 01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,920 Speaker 1: vegan mayonnaise companies have been have been treated in the 1004 01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,600 Speaker 1: larger market. And I will say that mostly that's an 1005 01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,240 Speaker 1: issue of the definition, the legal definition from the FDA 1006 01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:08,000 Speaker 1: of mayonnaise, which includes eggs. So that's a that's a 1007 01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,880 Speaker 1: reason why vegan Mayo has not been allowed to market 1008 01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,360 Speaker 1: itself as mayonnaise. Yeah, so that's part of the problem, 1009 01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:20,160 Speaker 1: because vegan mayonnaise isn't mayonnaise. Mayonnaise is fat and eggs, 1010 01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:25,840 Speaker 1: delicious oil. Yeah, vegetable oil. Vegetable oil and eggs. Mostly. 1011 01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:27,960 Speaker 1: I need I need my mayonnaise to be made out 1012 01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:31,920 Speaker 1: of bacon grease that also cannot be marketed as mayonnaise. 1013 01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:36,400 Speaker 1: Oh yes, it's like bacon aise at that point, some 1014 01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:39,560 Speaker 1: sort of a only. But you know what, man, you 1015 01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:41,920 Speaker 1: gotta be the change, right if you want that bacon 1016 01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,800 Speaker 1: mayonnaise to happen, I have full faith that you will do. 1017 01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:46,680 Speaker 1: So haul is going to turn us into bacon aise 1018 01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,480 Speaker 1: if we don't get that's true, that's true. So what 1019 01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,960 Speaker 1: do you do if you if you're familiar with all 1020 01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:56,440 Speaker 1: these different social media shenanigans and you care for none 1021 01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:58,880 Speaker 1: of them, we have good news for you. You can 1022 01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:02,160 Speaker 1: send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy 1023 01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:23,440 Speaker 1: at how stuff Works dot com.