1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Twins shockingly then going door 2 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: to door in a neighborhood begging for help, many people 3 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: not letting them in. When one neighbor does let them in, 4 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: what unfolds is something I'll never forget. I'm Nancy Grace. 5 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 6 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM one eleven. First 7 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to our friends, Akhou. It's 8 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: close to five o'clock on Tuesday morning. Home surveillance cameras 9 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: show this pair of sixteen year old twins, a boy 10 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: and a girl, who have just escaped. They spent more 11 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: than half an hour agoing door to door desperately seeking help. 12 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: Help let a same please, what what happened? It just 13 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: needs someone to be right up. No what they do 14 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: that I'm sure of the circumstances. Nearly all of the 15 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: neighbors told the twins to keep moving. At about five thirty. 16 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: The temperature was in the fifties. No one would take 17 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: them in fifty degrees outside, and they're begging for someone 18 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: to help them. A boy and a girl. Take a 19 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: listen now to Matt Dorney. It was exactly five to 20 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: twenty seven in the morning when I heard the doorbow ring, 21 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: A single mother at home with her daughter was the 22 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: first and only person to open the door. I just 23 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: knew they were kids right away, so I like quickly 24 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: opened the door. I told him to come in, and 25 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: I quickly shut the door and I locked it. The 26 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: woman who asked do we not use her name or 27 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: show her face, says she led the twin star kitchen. 28 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: I sat them down about them, blankets, covered them up, 29 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: and the first thing the little boy said was we're starving. Basically, 30 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: we're sayingly we're hungry. You're gonna give me something to eat. 31 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: A single mother home along with her daughter, is the 32 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: only one in the entire neighborhood to let them in 33 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: or to offer assistance, to do anything at all for them. 34 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: Has nobody heard the story? The true story, the parable 35 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: of the good Samaritan. Well, thank Heaven, this single mother 36 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: did articulosten now to our friends. At ABC five thirty 37 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: am Tuesday morning, the pair approached the door of a 38 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: neighbor who wants to remain anonymous. The woman taking the 39 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: teams in, feeding them, giving them blankets, the brother and 40 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: sister telling her they hadn't eaten in more than a week, 41 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: and they had unsuccessfully tried to escape at the us 42 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: Cecily tried to escape the day before. Who would do 43 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: this to the children? Two teens barely teens, severely malnourished 44 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: and listen to this forced to drink bleach, had bleach 45 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: poured on their genitals, a boy and a girl. They 46 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: were forced to eat and drink their own urine and feces, 47 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: beaten with metal rods, and fed mustard sandwiches, but only 48 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: once a week. Who who would do this to these 49 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: children they had just managed to escape? Take a listen 50 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: nown to our cut four our friends at Khou eleven. 51 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: Looking at the sixteen year olds, it was obvious. After 52 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: giving them something to eat, she started asking questions and 53 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: a little or was here standy. She was visibly shaken 54 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: and was showing me her handcuffs and would say, we 55 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: just broke out of beef. They told me that their 56 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: mom kept him locked in a laundry room, naked, zip 57 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: tight from the ankles and handcuffed from the wrist. They 58 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: said we would pee and poop on ourselves, and they 59 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: say when we needed to bathe, the mom would let 60 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: them use a dirty mutt potter to bathe. They didn't 61 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:25,799 Speaker 1: get about they got dirty hut potter. You know, I've 62 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: seen a lot and prosecuted a lot of bad guys 63 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: and a lot of bad women. I mean bad things. 64 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 1: I don't even like to think about drowning a teen 65 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: girl upside down on a bucket of water, cigarette marks 66 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: on a two year old baby girl. Just it just 67 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: goes on and on the cases I've seen investigated and 68 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: or prosecuted. But this case, I just don't know what 69 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: it is about it forcing them to stay in a 70 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: room completely naked, only giving a bath occasionally, and then 71 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: in the dirty mock water, pouring bleach on the children's genitals, 72 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: making them drink bleach urine, eat feces. You know, you 73 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: wonder what devil straight from hell would do this to 74 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: another person, let alone a child, let alone two children twins. 75 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: Only to find out they give the name of the perpetrator, 76 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: and that name is mommy Straight out to Nick Perlin, 77 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: multimedia journalists joining us from w b RZ News two 78 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: in Baton Rouge. You can find him on Facebook at 79 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: Nick Perlin, on Twitter at Nick Pearlin Underscore TV. Nick, 80 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Let's just start at 81 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: the beginning with these two twins, boy girl just like mine, 82 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: extremely thin, malnourished, going door to door and there is 83 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: ring camera video of this. Nick Purlin, tell let's just 84 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: start at the beginning. Kick it off at five twenty 85 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: a m. Nick Purlin, Yeah, I mean, you see that 86 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: surveillance video. It's shocking. Like you said, they're going door 87 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 1: to door begging, you know, just asking for anybody to 88 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: do anything to help. And like you said, it was 89 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: that one woman who you know, let them in. And 90 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: just that surveillance video is really just stunning to see 91 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: two teenagers looking that thin, and you can see photographs, 92 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: you know, scars around their risk from the handcuffs. I mean, 93 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: it really is just stunning to see that security video 94 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: that you saw at five in the morning. There. I'm 95 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 1: taking a look at it right now. And again it's 96 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: in the low fifties and one child doesn't have on 97 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: a shirt outside they're both freezing, they're both begging, but 98 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: nobody will let them in. Also with me, in addition 99 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: to Nick pearl And joining us from w b r 100 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: Z two, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us. Renowned psychoanalyst joining 101 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: us from Beverly Hills, star of a hit series on Netflix, 102 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: Bling Empire. You can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall 103 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: dot com Doctor Bethany. I mean, if you're afraid that 104 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: this is the roofs of some sort, which I understand, 105 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: I would think you would at least offer them assistance, 106 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: like if they're at the front door and your home alone, 107 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: like this single mom was with her daughter, but you 108 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: want to help me give them food at the back door, 109 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: and blankets and coats or something to hot to drink, anything, 110 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: and let them go around and get it. There's more 111 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: than one way to skin a cat. There's more than 112 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: one way to save a life or help these children. 113 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:03,119 Speaker 1: Before I get to who is absolutely going to hell 114 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: after a pit stop in the penitentiary, I want to 115 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: talk about these neighbors who didn't do a darned thing 116 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: to help too. I mean, when you see the picture, 117 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: they're clearly now nurished, they're pitiful, they're children. And Nancy, 118 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: what's interesting about the single mom and the clip we 119 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: just heard is the first thing she said was I 120 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: could tell they were children, And it's the single mom 121 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: with her own child in her home, the one who 122 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: maybe is the most vulnerable out of all the neighbors. 123 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: Think of these really worth thieves or robbers going door 124 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: to door, it would be the single mom with the 125 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: child alone at home who wouldn't open the door. But 126 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: that is the person who does open the door. She 127 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: sees the humanity of these children. Nancy. We've been talking 128 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: so much about mothering in our national discourse, right we're 129 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: talking about what othering? Where you treat somebody like they're 130 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: not human, like they're other, like they're disgithering mothering er Okay, 131 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: school me, Bethany. What is that other thing? Is? When 132 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: you treat somebody because they're a different class, race, socio 133 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: and economic status, as if they don't have value and 134 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: they don't have rights. That's mothering. And I think about 135 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: it in terms of how we treat fellow citizens in 136 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: our nation. I've never thought about it in terms of children. 137 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: This is the most profound example of other an. Oh, Bethany, 138 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: wait a second. I'm looking at a video of the girl. 139 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: She's obviously in the home. Have you seen this jackie 140 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: with a single mom who has got it looks like 141 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: a towel or a white blanket draped around her and 142 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: this is the girl because the boy didn't have on 143 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: a shirt and she's got her she's got her hands. 144 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: It looks like up on the bar or the island. 145 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: You know a lot of houses have those way, do 146 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: you have an island between the kitchen sink and the 147 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,479 Speaker 1: stove and then I could sit at the bar on stools. 148 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: She's got a little hands up and they are covered 149 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: in scars and it looks like scabs that have been 150 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 1: scratched and bruises on guys. I'm just hearing in my ear. 151 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 1: I have doctor free in Hess with US pediatrician, pediatric 152 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: emergency Medicine, child safety expert, consultant and founder of pedemom 153 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: dot com. And tell me if I'm mispronouncing that doctor 154 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: has peed I m O M dot com dot is 155 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: that correct? Doctor has PEDEMM. That is correct justice pd 156 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: like pediatrician and mom because I'm a doctor Hess. Have 157 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: you seen the picture of this girl's risks I have. 158 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: There's also a picture of the brothers risks we which 159 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: looks pretty similar and actually looks like there's holes puncture 160 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: holes and the boys risks I mean on his right hand. 161 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: Doctor has for people that can't see it, Hopefully, That's 162 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: just what I was going to say, thank you for 163 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: the sign. Jackie's holding up a sign. Look at a 164 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: swollen hands. You see the arm, the forearm, then the 165 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 1: wrist starts to get a little bit swollen. Then you 166 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: see the marks on his wrists and it looks like 167 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: actual puncture holes where the girls look like scats. And 168 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: in his hands and fingers especially, I don't know what 169 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: you call the part of the hand between the wrist 170 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: and the knuckles are completely swollen up. What let's just 171 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: start with that. What does this mean? The likelihood is 172 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: I mean just by looking at the pictures, obviously have 173 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: to examine the child, but looking at the pictures, it 174 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: looks like it was definitely long standing contraction of the risk. Okay, 175 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: what does that mean? Contraction of the wrist something, whether 176 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: it be handcuffs, a zip, tie ropes. I mean, we 177 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: unfortunately do see it quite often has been tied around 178 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: the risks for long periods of time. And what can 179 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: happen is that that can start to constrict that area, 180 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: which decreases blood flow distantly, meaning further out to the 181 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: hands and the fingers, which can cost swelling. And if 182 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: you read back into some of the reports. It also 183 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: says that she had admitted in the past, although I 184 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: don't know if it was two of these two children, 185 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: that she also did force these children to stand to 186 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: do push up the end or plank like movements for 187 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: so long that their hands would be come swollen. And 188 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: the idea that possibly they might have been doing that 189 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: while their risks were constricted or tied or bound in 190 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: some way would definitely increase the chances of that being swollen. 191 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: But you can see by those marks that is not like, 192 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 1: not that a one time tying up of children several okay, obviously, 193 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: but this is more than just one time. This is 194 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: you know, they're scarring there. There's changes the hyperpigmentation of 195 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: the skin, which means increased darkening of the skin, which 196 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: you can get from scarring over time. So there's a 197 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: combination of newish looking injuries on the wrists to darkening 198 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 1: hyperpigmentation of the skin, scarring, scabbing. All the above is 199 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: kind of seen on that, So it does definitely look 200 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: like it's something more long term and pretty frequent, if 201 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: not continuous time stories with Nancy Grace. The twin brother 202 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: had deep cuts as well as the sister on his 203 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: wrists from handcuffs. These are from actual handcuffs because they 204 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: had the handcuffs with them. I'm not sure exactly how 205 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: they broke free the two toys and told the Good 206 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: Samaritan mom they had just broken free from being handcuffed 207 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 1: by their own mother. You were just hearing the voice 208 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 1: of doctor free in hiss. You know, it seems to 209 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: get worse and worse. Take a listen to our friends 210 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: at ABC tonight. These are the heroine images of a 211 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: brother and sister who police say were being held captive 212 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: in their own home. The images of their pleas for 213 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: help were captured by a doorbell video camera. The two 214 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: teams are twins. They were going door to door begging 215 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: for someone to help them. They were signs on their 216 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: arms they've been handcuffed, both barefoot and one shirtless. They 217 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: were saying that they had just gotten here from Baton 218 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: rou Shaping. They said that they just moved here and 219 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: that the mom didn't just close the address to them, 220 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: and so they didn't know where they lived. They did 221 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: not even no their own address. Jackie, I want to 222 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: skip forward to our cut seven from khou Or. Documents 223 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: reveal how the abused twins were able to escape from 224 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: their mother and boyfriend's home early Tuesday morning. Documents state 225 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: the boy found the key inside his mother's purse. He 226 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: hit the key in his mouth until his mother and 227 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: her boyfriend were asleep. That's how they were able to 228 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: knock on neighbor's doors for help. One mother finally let 229 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: them in and called police. They literally were running for 230 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: their lives. I mean, they knew that if they stayed bared, 231 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: that was going to happen with them. Mike Herman joining 232 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: me a private investigator out of California at Herman Investigations 233 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: dot com. Former police lieutenant, co founder of PTSD Brotherhood 234 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: dot A. Mike Herman, thank you for being with us. 235 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: It sounds like something out of a movie. The boy 236 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: found the handcuff key in his mother's pocket book and 237 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: hid it in his mouth until the mom and her 238 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: boyfriend go to sleep, and that's the only way they 239 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: managed to get out. Yeah, it's amazing. Unfortunately, through my career, 240 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: I've investigated so many child abuse cases and they just 241 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: keep getting worse and worse. You thought with the Turpin 242 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: case a few years ago that that want to get topped, 243 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: and it's that any parent can treat their kids this way. 244 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: And like doctor Bethanie was talking with the injuries to 245 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: their risk. You can look at those photographs and you 246 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: can tell they're just so prolonged abuse. There's actually holes 247 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: in their skin along with dried up scabs and deep, 248 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: deep bruises. We also learned the little girl was wearing 249 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: a plastic grocery bag as a shirt. So this boy 250 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: had the wherewithal to hide the handcuff key in his 251 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: mouth in order to escape after mommy and boyfriend go 252 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: to sleep in their soft kingsized bed upstairs and their 253 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: six hundred thousand dollars home. Guys, take a listen to 254 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: you more. This is Anniel Ruise khou Our Cut eleven. 255 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: According to court documents, the teen said their mother would 256 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 1: strike them with an extension cords, curtain, bronze, and metal pulls. 257 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: The records say the boy told deputies his mom's boyfriend 258 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 1: punch his hand last week. Injuries neighbor's state were visible. 259 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: They're skin. I mean the little kid had like scratches 260 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: and scabs and bruises all down his arm, down the 261 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: back of his body. Documents state the mother would make 262 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: them drink chemicals such as bleach lyssel and would spray 263 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: easy Off Oven cleaner in their mouths if they talk 264 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 1: too much and say she would pour bleach on them, 265 00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: causing their skin to burn, including in their general area. Okay, 266 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: I want to go now to our special guest doctor 267 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: free in his pediatrician and pediatric emergency medicine experts. What 268 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: does that do to a child? Being forced to eat 269 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: or drink lysol and easy Off. Yeah, so drinking being 270 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: forced to drink chemicals, cleaning chemicals can do some significant damage. 271 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: It all depends specifically on the pH of those chemicals, 272 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: but it can cause significant burns of the mucosa, meaning 273 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: the soft lining of the mouth, of the esophagus, the stomach. 274 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: It can cause electrolate imbalances. There's there's lots of issues 275 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: that can cause, especially if it's long term or in 276 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: large amounts. Easy Off Oven Cleaner has dipropylene glycol, propol 277 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: ether is sabutane, and I know that that's flammable because 278 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: it has ut as part of the name, potassium carbonate, 279 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: ethan alamine, smectype clay, benzel alcohol, sodium lawl, sarcosinate, paraffin, wax, 280 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 1: and fragrance. The main ingredient is something I've never seen before. 281 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: Monothalamine and diethylene, and that's what she would put in 282 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 1: their mouth. I mean to me, it sounds like that 283 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: would burn out your stomach the way it burns debris 284 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: off the inside of your oven. Yeah. Well, and in 285 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: addition to it's not even just about your mouth, esophagus, 286 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,719 Speaker 1: your stomach, Especially when we're talking about sprays like that 287 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: or even other chemicals that might cause them to cough 288 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: and or vomit. They can actually aspirate those chemicals as well. 289 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,959 Speaker 1: Meeting take those chemicals and they end up getting stucked 290 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: into the lungs, which can then cause lung damage as well. So, 291 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: I mean, the danger of this is huge. There's no 292 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: telling what long term damage has been done to their mouth. 293 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: Think about tender your mouth is even when you get 294 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: an ulcer and they have lysol and easy off oven 295 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: cleaner sprayed and poured into their mouth and their float 296 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 1: and that tender paint lining going down to your stomach 297 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: and in your stomach. And that's not all. Listen to 298 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: our cut twelve. The girl told investigators that her brother 299 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: defecated and their mother made them both eat it and 300 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: drink his urine. Don't understand how a mother can do 301 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: the serry kids, and court documents also state that teens 302 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: were both given benadrell. The boys said he was given 303 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: twenty four tablets, which caused him to have a seizure. 304 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: After he had a seizure, he says he was only 305 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 1: given twenty tablets to go to sleep. The girl said 306 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: she was also given benadrell to go to sleep. And 307 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: I have no doubt that these kids would have not 308 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: made it a life if they had not escaped, because 309 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: they were literally skinned alone to doctor Bethany Marshall's Psychoana's 310 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: Journing Us out of Beverly Hills. I know you recall 311 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: the case that we analyze of the military mom who 312 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: had climbed high up in the military along with her 313 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: husband and he traveled all the time, and she shot 314 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: both of her children dead, and she shot the daughter 315 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: who was at her computer doing her homework. Both of 316 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: the children were all a students in the mouth because 317 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: she said that the daughter was getting quote mouthy. And 318 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: here we see this mother, according to the children, making 319 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: them fill their mouths with lysol or easy off when 320 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: they quote talked back. See. I think it's interesting with 321 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: military mom that she killed them if they were about 322 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: to achieve even greater success. And I think a huge 323 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: emotion that leads to child abuse, and we don't think 324 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: about it this much is envy and contempt. My child's beautiful, 325 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: my child's developing, my child's going to become a full 326 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: human being, and that's going to make me feel horrible 327 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 1: about myself. It sounds so sort of tried in benign 328 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 1: the way I'm saying it, But I really think that 329 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: these parents, they don't want their children to thrive, to succeed, 330 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: to be beautiful, to have their own voices. This is 331 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: why the mouth the esophagus are often mutilated. That a 332 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,719 Speaker 1: military mom shot her daughter in the mouth. It's like, 333 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: I don't want you to be a full human being. 334 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: I cannot tolerate it. And besides that, when you have needs, 335 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: I see you as greedy and bad. So another thing 336 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: I'm going to do is I'm going to put a 337 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: lock on the refrigerators. Did we often see that with 338 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: child abuse that the adults will say, well, I had 339 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: to put a lock on the refrigerator because they were 340 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: eating too much food. So not only is there really 341 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: mutilating and torturing the mouth, the esophagus, the lungs, the stomach. 342 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: But there's also a deprivation of food, as if they're 343 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: trying to shrink the child to as small as the 344 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: child could be, so that child doesn't even take up 345 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 1: space on this planet. I mean, it's really complex, all 346 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: these motivations, Bethany, just nicely you want to cry. I 347 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: was thinking this this morning about what I could possibly 348 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: do to tempt my daughter because she is into organic 349 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: eating and healthy lifestyle, and she makes a certain portion 350 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: on her plight and she eats that. And I've made 351 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 1: all sorts of desserts Dodger Bethany, And of course I 352 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: had to keep your way from John Day because they'll 353 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: eat the whole thing at once. But finally I found 354 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: a dessert and this is not applied, but it's Marey 355 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,479 Speaker 1: Calendar chocolate silk pie with a chocolate. She likes that. 356 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: So I will order then at least once a week. 357 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: And think, I'm always thinking of something that they will like, 358 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: and how I can hide veggies. And here's this mom 359 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: putting easy off as and cleaner and lysol down their mouths, 360 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 1: and when they do get something to eat, whatso week 361 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: it's a mustard, relish, sandwich, and nan. If you think 362 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: about what we do with our children from the time 363 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: their infants, we smile and we tell them you're beautiful, 364 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: you are the center of the world. Your mom meet 365 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 1: little prince, your mom eat little princess. And then after that, 366 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: the first thing we want to do is feed them. 367 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: We always want to feed our children. We want to 368 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: make sure that they have enough nutrition. And also when 369 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: we offer food, we offer love. So to not smile, 370 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: to not upregulate, to not feed, to not nurture, it 371 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: really runs against the whole instinct of being human. You know, 372 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: there's another dynamic, and I wanna go to Sarah Ford 373 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: on this. She's the legal director at the South Carolina 374 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: Victim's Assistants Network at sc VAN legal dot org, former 375 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: prosecutor focusing on crimes on women and children, adjunct professor 376 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: at South Carolina State University. Sarah, thank you so much 377 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: for being with us. I want to talk to you 378 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: about the dynamic we just heard where the mom will 379 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: let the boyfriend join in and beat them. I mean 380 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: the things I see mothers let their sorry husbands, lovers, boyfriends, 381 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: exes do to their their blood children and their adopted children. 382 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like it. They let these boyfriends 383 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: join in with the abuse. It's absolutely horrific, Nancy. I mean, 384 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: with these types of cases, so often you see that 385 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,239 Speaker 1: these behaviors existed, like in this case where you know 386 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: this mother had been abusing these children consistently, but also 387 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: allowing their partner um. You know, I think in cases 388 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: that I've seen it, it's become like a bonding connection 389 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: for you know, the the abuser and their boyfriend or husband. 390 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: And it's absolutely sickening. I mean, this is this is 391 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: child torture. And to look at that house, I mean 392 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 1: Nick Perlin and Sarah Ford, doctor Bethany, Mike Kerman, doctors 393 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: please jump in. Do not be limited by my questions 394 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: to you, Nick Pearland, when I think about okay, let 395 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: me ask you another questions. Why I go off on 396 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,719 Speaker 1: a tangent. How did they escape? Nick Peerlan? How did 397 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: they finally get at hey? Nick? Nick? Wait a minute? 398 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: Take listen to our cut thirteen from Katie rk. Court 399 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: documents filed in Harris County include the interview the sixteen 400 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: year olds gave detectives, the twins saying they were forced 401 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: to drink bleach, had corrosive oven cleaner sprayed in their mouths, 402 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: and we're routinely beaten and burned. During the interview, police 403 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: say the girl was wearing a gray plastic grocery bag 404 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: around her neck. She said that's what she had to 405 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: use as a shirt. They did not hold a single 406 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: thing back. They were saying that the mom had him 407 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: in handcuffs in the laundry room, that they were not 408 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: allowed to eat. What was just all he could think 409 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: about was food. He said, we're starving, We're starving. And 410 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: another thing I learned Nick Pearl and joining us from 411 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: w b RZ is they were given these mustard sandwiches. 412 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 1: They had to drink water from the supply valve that 413 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: feeds the washing machine. Yeah, I mean how did they 414 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: get out? Were they living orre they forced to live 415 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: in the laundry room. Yeah, so that's it looks like 416 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: that's where they were supposed to live. The two twins 417 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 1: stayed together in that room. And yeah, they, like you said, 418 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: they had to drink water from the supply valve that's 419 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: the washing machine. And you know the mustard and rella 420 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: sandwiches that you were talking about. You're talking one to 421 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 1: three sandwiches per week. I mean those kids were starving. 422 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: That neighbor that the statition in Houston interviewed said that 423 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: they were literally skinning bones. She could see the abuse. 424 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's I mean, it's it's stunning, it's it's crazy. Yeah, 425 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: it's it's surprising they lived. I'm surprised they live because 426 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: being forced to drink easy off oven cleaner and li 427 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: saw and given a mustard sandwich a couple of times 428 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 1: a week. So Nick, how did they get out? So 429 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 1: they got out because they were able to escape. They 430 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: unhandcuffed themselves and they ran. They found help somehow, somebody 431 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: called the police. And I mean when the police were 432 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: able to finally show up to that family's home because 433 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: like you said earlier, they didn't know the address, that's 434 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: when the mother or the boyfriend and the other kids 435 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: were gone. But that's how the two twins were able 436 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: to get out, just because they were able to be 437 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: you know, unhandcuffed themselves and were lucky enough to find 438 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: a good Samaritan who would help them. I guess they 439 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: snuck out while the mother and her live in were 440 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: sleeping and by the time the cops could figure out 441 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: where these children came from because they didn't even know 442 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: their address. They just moved there. And I guarantee you 443 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: there's a record of abuse from wherever they came from. Right, 444 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: But that's how they got out. They waited for mommy 445 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: to fall asleep. Is that right, Nick Perlin? Yes, that 446 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: absolutely right. Time stories with Nancy Greece. What about this, 447 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: Everybody jump in because I think there's a lot more 448 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: to it than what we see on the service. She 449 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: forbade her children to use the bathroom. There were forced 450 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: to defecate and urinate on themselves, then eat it and 451 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: drink it. Then they only had dirty water from a 452 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: mup bucket to wash themselves. Extreme meetings with extension cords, 453 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: curtain ross metal poles. The boyfriend, uh they love her 454 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: in this case often would punch the sixteen year old 455 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: boy in a nutshell. To you, doctor Bethany, what does 456 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: it mean that she did not let them go to 457 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: the bathroom, They had to defecate and urinate in the 458 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: laundry room, then eat it and drink it. Well, to 459 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: me that that indicates sadism, that there's there's true pleasure 460 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: in the torturing and the suffering of others that somehow 461 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: it stimulated her well being. It made her feel good 462 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: about herself. It kind of gave her like wind beneath 463 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: her wings, so to speak, to go out into the 464 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: world knowing that she had these two little torture cases 465 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: in her basement, and think about this, there's five other 466 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: children in the house that apparently looked well fed. I'm 467 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: thinking I have read any reports about that, but that 468 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,239 Speaker 1: they were well fed, that they were taken care of. 469 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: So this is a typical Pydnamic in these abus of 470 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: torture chamber households, where the parents choose one or two 471 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: children to torture, to beat, and then they choose the 472 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: other children to elevate. I had a case like this 473 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: in my practice where you know, an adult survivor of 474 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: child sexual abuse and physical abuse, mental all of that, 475 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: and she was starved and hers she would have to 476 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: sit on the floor in the kitchen while her mother 477 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: fed her sister beautiful food and she would could smell 478 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: the food wafting, and she was so hungry salivating all 479 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: of that. The sister got love and she got hate. 480 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: And it's still never been able to figure it out 481 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: one hundred percent. It's inexplicable. As we've been talking about, 482 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: this is something else that's hard to figure out. The 483 00:31:53,720 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: public persona the mother exuded the exact opposite. Take a 484 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: listen to our cut twenty one from our friends at 485 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: climb online. Just over a year ago, the forty year 486 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,719 Speaker 1: old mom was posting to TikTok clips of herself dancing 487 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: with her five youngest children. The oldest set of twins 488 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: cannot be seen in the videos. Her post to TikTok 489 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: lasted about three months, beginning in March twenty twenty, with 490 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: Duncan posting ten videos in all. Duncan posted to Instagram 491 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: a little longer. Those posts ended in June of twenty 492 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: twenty one, but seemed to show a group of happy, looking, 493 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: healthy children dancing Zakiah. Duncan's last post praised her now 494 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: twelve year old son, Javion, a twin himself. An Instagram 495 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: photo from April twenty twenty one shows four of Duncan's 496 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: sons sitting around a kitchen table eating candy. The caption says, 497 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: I love spending time with my boys. A month later, 498 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: in May twenty twenty one, she posted a photo of 499 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: her youngest son Nicholas congratulating him for graduating from Ideas 500 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: Academy School. So she's posting all these videos of her 501 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: dancing with her children around the house and loving mom 502 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: videos and posts. Not only that she forced the children 503 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: to read letters expressing their law for her on Mother's 504 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: Day if she posted it on Insta, a series of 505 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: wildly misleading posts depicting a happy, loving family and also 506 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: on the outside, you'd never know what's going on on 507 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: the inside. Take a listen to our friends at primal 508 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: line and Cut twenty two. It is believed the family 509 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: only moved into the Houston neighborhood this summer. The home 510 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: has four bedroom, three and a half baths, and includes 511 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: a formal living and dining room. There is also a 512 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: covered patio, two car attached garage, and access to a 513 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: community pool in water Park. It's not yet known whether 514 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: Duncan and her boyfriend bought or rented the house. The 515 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,959 Speaker 1: house had sold in late July and was valued between 516 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: five hundred and fifty two thousand and six hundred and 517 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: twenty seven thousand, six hundred thousan dollar house nearly three 518 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: quarters of a million dollar house, and she's baiting handcuffing 519 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: her twins to the point that they are malnourished and 520 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 1: close to death. It reminds me of the Turpid family 521 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: the House of Horrors. Take a list of our cut 522 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: fourteen b from ACGTN. Officials say when they entered the 523 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: Turpin home, they found a modern day horror foul smell, 524 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 1: extremely dirty conditions, and they say it was immediately clear 525 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: that the siblings were malnourished. Authorities say they found three 526 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,399 Speaker 1: of the children shackled to their beds with chains and padlocks, 527 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: kept in dark and unclean conditions inside this Riverside County, 528 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: California home. Deputies located twelve children inside the house as 529 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: young as two years old. While the family kept this 530 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: active Facebook page, which appears to show a happy group trips, vacations, 531 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: smiling faces. Authorities discovered that seven of the children pictures 532 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: appeared so malnourished that they did look like and they 533 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: were actually adult. The oldest is twenty nine years old. 534 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: That mom, the chirping Mom, would post pictures of the 535 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: children on trips and matching outfits. The reality is they 536 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: were being beaten and starved and shackled to their beds. 537 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: Joining me, everybody Nick Perlin from Baton Rouge w BRC. You, Nick, 538 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: note that this mom has prior incidents of child abuse, 539 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 1: yet here she is torturing the children, maybe making them 540 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,439 Speaker 1: eat their own poop and drink their own urine, handcuffing them, 541 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: starving them, letting the boyfriend join in. What was her prior? Yeah, 542 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: so in twenty twelve she had a child abuse kick 543 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 1: back here in Baton Rouge, and in that document they 544 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: said that these children had burned to their feet and 545 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: their genitals. And it really is, like you said, crazy 546 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: because once we doug more into her background at the 547 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: production meeting the next day after this news broke, we 548 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 1: were all kind of sitting around going how did she 549 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: get these kids back? Especially after you know, she was 550 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,959 Speaker 1: charged and arrested in a child abuse case. So it's 551 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,879 Speaker 1: just it is interesting how she was able to get 552 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: these kids back and then moved into that beautiful home, 553 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: four bedroom, three and a half bathroom, Yet these two 554 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: kids are malnourished and just in very bad condition. You 555 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: got a question for you, Nick Perlin. Where did the 556 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,439 Speaker 1: prior occur where she was charged with cruelty to children? Yeah, 557 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: the children are given right back to her. That was. 558 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,280 Speaker 1: I believe that was in Baton Rouge as well, so 559 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: she looked like she lived in Baton Rouge. There was 560 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 1: issues with her child abuse history while she was here. 561 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: Got the kid back? How is that happening? How is 562 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:57,320 Speaker 1: she getting the children back? Sarah Ford? Why does defects 563 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 1: keep giving the children back to mommy? You know, it's 564 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 1: become something where, you know, Child Protective Services wants to 565 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: reunify families and from the outside that that seems like 566 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: a good idea, but that's okay for some families, but 567 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: certainly not for all. And in the cases of severe abuse, 568 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: which is you know, child of being burned on their 569 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: general horrible I mean horrible, horrible abuse. Now catch this, 570 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: Sarah Ford. Hold that up again, Jackie, everybody, I want 571 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: you to hear what some lame prosecutor gave mom the 572 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: first time. And when you hear what she did the 573 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: first time, you're gonna spin. She pled to a lesser 574 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: offense and she was her sentence was parenting classes. Now 575 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: I want you to hear exactly what she did. This 576 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: is what Nick Carlin is telling us about taking listen 577 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: our cut twenty three. Our friends at climb online duncan 578 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: was accused of child abuse. Ten years ago in Louisiana, 579 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: a five year old child was taken from school to 580 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,320 Speaker 1: a local hospital to be treated for burns to his feet, 581 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 1: genital and other body parts. Doctors determined the injuries were 582 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 1: likely the result of being burned by hot water. The 583 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: boy also had bruises on his torso, back, hip, and buttocks. 584 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: When police went to Duncan's home, they found a twenty 585 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,879 Speaker 1: month old child wrapped in clothing with his hands bound. Reportedly, 586 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: the only other person in the home was a child's 587 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: four year old brother. Duncan admitted to police that she 588 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: routinely disciplined one child by making him get into a 589 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: push up position for up to an hour, this causing 590 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,720 Speaker 1: the child's hands to swell. The child was also forced 591 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: to sleep on the closet floor. The door of the 592 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,359 Speaker 1: closet would be blocked by boards to keep the child 593 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: from escaping and stealing food from the kitchen. Two other 594 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: children with signs of abuse who were removed from the home. 595 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: Duncan was charged with cruelty to juveniles, but the children 596 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: were ultimately returned to her. The children given by and 597 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,720 Speaker 1: it sounds like it was the same boy Jackie because 598 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,399 Speaker 1: at that time he was five. That was ten years ago. 599 00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:00,760 Speaker 1: Now he've got a fifteen year old boy twin same ms. Frandi. 600 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: She was pouring boiling water on his genitals and now 601 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: she's pouring bleach on his genitals. Okay, I only have 602 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: one thing to say, Baton Rouge. You let her go 603 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: ten years ago, and I would like you to think 604 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: tonight about the pain you've caused these children. Zakia Duncan, 605 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: Jovah Terrell go to hell. Hopefully Baton Rouge prosecutors can 606 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 1: do a better job this time than they did last time. 607 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:37,760 Speaker 1: And God bless these children. We wait as justice unfolds. 608 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace comes story, signing off goodbye to