1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Hi Katie, Hi Brian. Did you have a nice Thanksgiving? 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: I had a lovely Thanksgiving. You know why why I 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: didn't cook a damp thing. We went to a restaurant 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: and ate everything from soup to nuts. How lazy am I? 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: How was your Thanksgiving? Brian? It was very good. You know, 6 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: my family cook so the turkey was dry, but the 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: pie was good. Old I've never had a voice turkey. 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: Actually no, I mean I think we should have like 9 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: a Thanksgiving ham or something. I'd like to I'd like 10 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: to Thanksgiving rip ros myself like a prime rib. Anyway, 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 1: but it is an opportunity to kind of have a 12 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: little time off and to give thanks in all sincerity 13 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: for our blessings and that our bously, our family, our 14 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: friends are good fortune and you Brian, and this podcast 15 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: and today I'm exceptionally thankful that I get to talk 16 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: to Hugh Jackman, Matt Bye and Jake Carson. Did they 17 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: sound like afterthoughts? Well? Maybe because a jack. Hugh Jackman, 18 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: of course, has a new movie out called The front Runner, 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: all about Gary Hart's ill fated campaign and what happened 20 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: to him in three weeks back in seven when it 21 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: looked like he was going to win his party's nomination 22 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: for president of the United States. But it was when 23 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: everything changed, not only for Gary Hart, but for the 24 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: media and for our country. And we should provide a 25 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: little bit of background. Gary Hart was a Democratic senator 26 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: from Colorado. He had run unsuccessfully for president once before. 27 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: Everybody sort of assumed he was going to be the 28 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: leader of the pack. But then the media started digging 29 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: around his personal life and that was kind of the 30 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: beginning of the end for his effort. I'm going to 31 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: show you, Senator, this is relevant. It's just that we 32 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: saw you leave and come back with this woman, and 33 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: we wouldn't see her. No one is staying in my home. 34 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: There's no need for that, right, I am serious, sir. 35 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: How long have you known this? One kind of question? 36 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: What kind of questions are? Is she a friend? Well, 37 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: I don't know why I would tell you that, Tom, 38 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: I am not going to you produce her to corroborate 39 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: what you're saying. You have to produce anything. This has 40 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: gone on along. We know you've made calls to this 41 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: woman from Kansas and New Hampson every day. I don't 42 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: see how I remember at your announcement speech. Okay, you said, 43 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: you said, we weld ourselves the highest possible standards of 44 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 1: integrity and ethics. Then why are we standing here now? 45 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 1: Hugh Jackman did not do this on his own. It's 46 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: based on a book written by Matt, by one of 47 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: our favorites. We worked together when we were both at 48 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: Yahoo News. Matt is still there is the National Political Columnists. 49 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,399 Speaker 1: So this movie is based on his book called All 50 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: the Truth Is Out, The Weak Politics Went Tabloid. We're 51 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: also joined by another one of my favorites, Jay Carson. 52 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: Jay Carson helped adapt Matt's book into the screenplay along 53 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: with director Jason Rightman. James had a pretty interesting career himself. 54 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: He's only a senior advisor at Bloomberg Philanthropies. He's worked 55 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: on a lot of big political campaigns. You and I, 56 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: I think first got to know him ten years ago 57 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: when he was the traveling press secretary for Hillary Clinton. 58 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: That's right. Fun fact. Ryan Gosling played the character based 59 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: on j in the two thousand thirteen movie The Odds 60 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: of March As I'm looking at you, Brian, Ryan Gosling 61 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: could play you in the movie All About Our Podcast. 62 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 1: You know, find a nickel for every time somebody said 63 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: that's me, Katie, I'm you know, I'm confused for Hugh 64 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: or for Ryan particularly Shirt. Anyway, we decided we were 65 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: going to have a long conversation with them about politics, 66 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: the media, about Gary Hart, and how you really take 67 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: a story that happened in nine seven and make it 68 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: relevant today. So we started out by asking Matt why 69 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: he wanted to write a book about this chapter in 70 00:03:53,520 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: American politics in the first place. There are just stories. 71 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: I know you've had this experience, kidding, They're just stories. 72 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: They grab you, they don't really let you go. I'm 73 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: not a person who has a million ideas I want 74 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: to live with for a long time. In fact, this 75 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: might be the only one. But you know, I had 76 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: met Gary Hart at the end of two thousand two 77 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: when I was in New York Times magazine. I'd written 78 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: about him. I'd been found myself really compelled both by 79 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: him and his story and also about the things I've 80 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: missed about his story. I mean, the more I looked 81 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: into it, the more I found that some things were 82 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: just so misremembered about it, even things I'd repeated. Honestly, 83 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: they just weren't right. And I think to myself as 84 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: a journalist. If we've if we've just put something in 85 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: a box and we've we've collectively misremembered it. Why you know, what, 86 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: what why why do you do that? You don't do 87 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: that for no reason. You overlook something for a reason. 88 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 1: And I really began to look into it, decided I 89 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: wanted to do the book, which really people did think 90 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: was a crazy idea except for Jay, my wife, you 91 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: know people. But you know by um, you know, the 92 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: book came out in and you know, I should imagine 93 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: because we started talking about um, all of us behind 94 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: the movie, but you know, the driving force behind the 95 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: movies Jason Reitman, our director and co writer, who uh 96 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: you know, who heard me talking about the book on 97 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: a podcast and on a radio that piece and just 98 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: was immediately got it, you know, just was hooked. Read 99 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: the book immediately, you know, if you know, Jason just 100 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: like write the book in about twenty seconds. Uh, you know, 101 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: I had the movie in his head by the time 102 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: we all sat down, and uh and we we all 103 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: just had this kind of magical collaboration. Really and what 104 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: was it, Hugh that made you think, Gosh, I want 105 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: to play Gary Hart? Well, Jason was a big part 106 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: of it, and I didn't know a lot about the story, 107 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: and I was amazed when I read it all how 108 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: this incredible for me, incredible candidate and with an unbelievably 109 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: strong ideas somehow quit politics forever, like this was the 110 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: guy who was definitely going to be the next president. 111 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: Three weeks later he's out forever. And this sort of 112 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: mix about principles and ethics and public versus p of it. 113 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: There was so much about it that fascinated me, and 114 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: I was in probably twenty pages into the script. I 115 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: thought the writing was so smart. I loved being part 116 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: of a movie that wasn't heroes and villains. It was 117 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: just a whole bunch of characters. I love the way 118 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 1: that women were portrayed in the movie, and it really 119 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: made me think, which ultimately is great thing if you're 120 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: going to see a movie, and if you're going to 121 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: be in a movie and you're gonna dedicate six nine 122 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: months to be alive. He wanted to be something that's 123 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: really going to grab you. Jay. There were very few 124 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: negatives on Heart, but one was the sort of undefined 125 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: sense that he was a little bit flaky. He had 126 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: changed his last name he had changed his signature, he 127 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: had even changed his birthdate at one point. But the 128 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: other was Heart's reputation as a womanizer. And of course 129 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: before reporters didn't look at the private lives of candidate's 130 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: pretty much. Ever, why do you think this changed? Why 131 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: do you think the Heart campaign was the moment that 132 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: this shifted. I mean, there's a confluence of events that 133 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: happened around eight um that lead to this moment shifting, 134 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: and it shifts in it and it never returns. But 135 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: there is a rule pre ad eight, which is that 136 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: someone's personal life is never relevant. Um. The rule post 137 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: is that it's always relevant. What we're arguing for in 138 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: this movie is some judgment on the part on on 139 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: all of our parts, the voters, the journalists, the candidates. 140 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: Certainly there were times pre a eight where it was 141 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: relevant we should have known what was going on behind 142 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: closed doors. Certainly there have been times post eight eight 143 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: where we don't need to know. And that's that's sort 144 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: of what we're trying to start that conversation, UM, because 145 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: I think that absolute rules, whether they are ideology or 146 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: something like always and never are they're just lazy on 147 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: all of our parts. So what Was it about the 148 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: atmosphere though then and the environment Matt that this confluence 149 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: that Jave referred to, that was it increased competition? Was it, 150 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: you know, the US weeklies of the world coming into play. 151 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I remember because I had worked 152 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: at w TVJ in Miami and I was big admirer 153 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: of Tom Fieedler's But yeah, he's from the Miami Herald 154 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: that was really involved in in breaking this story. Right, 155 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: What was happening that caused this? There are moments in 156 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: time where things come together in a way that changes 157 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: and it's not just politics, changes the culture. And I think, 158 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: you know, in retrospect, what's easier to see now than 159 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: at that moment in the mid nineties, you had a 160 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: bunch of things going on. You're about a decade after Watergate, 161 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: which changes journalism in a couple of profound ways. It changes, yes, 162 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: in a sort of based career ambition way. Right, if 163 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: you can take down a politician, now you can get 164 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: rich and famous. But also quite quite rightly, I think 165 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: puts the focus on moral character of our leaders more 166 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: than it had been. And because it was embarrassing for 167 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: the media to have missed that about Richard Nixon. You 168 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: had the rise of feminism on the left, which changed 169 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: attitudes about adult three, you had the rise of the 170 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: moral majority on the right, which also put personal behavior 171 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: much more in the realm of political discussion. And then 172 00:08:58,040 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: you have the birth that you know better than I do, 173 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: the birth of to like television right, CNN launches in 174 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: the early nineteen eighties, flyaway satellite dishes. Right. Suddenly you 175 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: have this moment where you can broadcast live anything from anywhere, 176 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: and you've got to keep people in their seats, and 177 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: the definition of news changes when it's an hour to 178 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: hour sort of keep the ratings up, uh issue, And 179 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: so all of these things come together, I think in 180 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: that moment, and as a result, what happens is that 181 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: we begin from that moment to treat our candidate's much 182 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: more like we treat our celebrities. And I would submit 183 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: that when you treat politicians like celebrities and create a 184 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: process that demands celebrity, you will get celebrities as politicians 185 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: and wanting to enter the process. And I think that's 186 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: been the direct line that you can follow from that 187 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: moment to the one in which we find ourselves, frankly 188 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: more relevant than we thought writing the script. We we 189 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: had the script done before thee election, but I think 190 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: I think events have just made it so unsettlingly timely 191 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 1: in some ways. You know, I think you accomplished something 192 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: that I thought was impossible. You made Hugh Jackman actually 193 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: unappealing to one. Thing that struck me, you know, because 194 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: I remember Gary hard. I think I've interviewed him on 195 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: a number of occasions, and of course I remember the 196 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: story well. Even though I was in local news when 197 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: this this story happened. Um, you know, I kept thinking, God, 198 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:27,839 Speaker 1: he's so humorless, and he's so lacking in Christmas. He's 199 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: so obnoxiously earnest. That's what I thought when I watched 200 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: this movie. Did you set out to make him that way? 201 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: This is the least amount of acting I've ever done. 202 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: I know he is, I know you. He's the antithesis 203 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: of everything you are. I mean, did you just have 204 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: to like try to sublimate any personality? No, I have 205 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: a different perspective from meeting him and spending time with him. 206 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: I find him very mercurial in a way. Like I 207 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: actually jokingly said to him, have you ever thought about 208 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: being an actor? Because when I'm around a lot of actors, 209 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: I always feel like any adjective could work with that actor, 210 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: Like actors have to chop and change so much that 211 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: they can to time to be grumpy or earnest or funny. 212 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: And I found him maybe because of everything I'd heard 213 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: or read. I was surprisingly warm, funny, very inviting, very 214 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: very hospitable. He was quite serious and brief in what 215 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: he did, and people were even his own campaign team 216 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: at important moments, were on eggshells at times around him 217 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: because he was very serious and he wasn't mucking around. 218 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: But I I my job was to bring you close enough, 219 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: but never let you in. That's what I felt, and 220 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: Jason I talked about that a lot, because he is 221 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: a very private person, and a lot of people I 222 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: spoke to even to this day, once it's been years 223 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: around it was like I couldn't quite grab onto who 224 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: he is. So I'm a little even hearing you now, 225 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: I'm like, maybe I didn't quite work. I was hoping 226 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: for a bit like I think I've got it, but 227 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 1: I'm not sure like that, I mean, I mean, I 228 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: felt he was almost contemptuous of the People magazine culture. 229 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: We were moving towards definitely think it's a discomfort more 230 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:16,839 Speaker 1: than anything I think, And I think that's what he 231 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: brings across so brilliantly. I do think he is absolutely 232 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: brilliant this film. I think we all do, and and 233 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: and part of it is is telegraphing something that's very 234 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: hard to telegraph with your face, with your emotions, with 235 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: your emotions. Is this this discomfort with the arena is 236 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: not being able to feel yourself, with feeling always under 237 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: a microscope and and feeling the ground shifting underneath you, 238 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: and not being able to adapt to it. It's a 239 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: hard thing to get across with somebody who doesn't deliver 240 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: long soliloquies, which is and I think you did a 241 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 1: great job. Don't get me wrong. I just didn't find 242 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: Gary Hart very appealing for me because I think he 243 00:12:55,640 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: was so intent upon maintaining this zone of privacy. As 244 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: somebody who watched the movie, I you know, I just 245 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: wanted to mess up his hair and slap him around 246 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: and get him drunk. Right by the way he got 247 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: mad drunk. He makes a main mountainy when I said 248 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: in his house, oh yeah, no, no he can, he 249 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: can throw him back, but he yeah, No, it's it's 250 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: it's interesting because I think it was. I DAS was 251 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: so important to him, and he spent hours on them. 252 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: And so when he was doing a speech on economics 253 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: or in anything, it had been years of working things 254 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: out before he ran. He had been to every country, 255 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: met with not just the leader but the opposition leader. 256 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: So he knew, like his detail on how he could 257 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: possibly lead the country very well overnight year period was incredible. 258 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: Did he have enough EQ for this current environment and 259 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: for mass media? And you know when they say people 260 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: vote for the guy or gal they want to have 261 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: a beer with, Like I mean, he just didn't seem 262 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,719 Speaker 1: to have any of those. Hey, let's let's hang out qualities. 263 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: I know what you mean. And I think I find 264 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: myself in the same place sometimes scolding myself for needing 265 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: the person to have the right EQ. And and I 266 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: have through the process of writing and doing this movie, 267 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: I wanted to flip that around in my head and 268 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: wonder why we put so much stress on that. Right, 269 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: We're watching someone who's clearly brilliant, who's clearly thought the 270 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: job through, but we don't like them enough. And this 271 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: is weird thing where like we would never cheat our 272 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: airline pilot that way. I mean, I flew through a 273 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: lot of turbulence to get here last night, and I 274 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: wasn't thinking as I was laying there trying to to 275 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: sleep through the through the bouncing around, like do I 276 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: like my pilot? Is he nice enough? I'm like, I 277 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: want him to be able to fly the goddamn plane 278 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: and landed and we flipped it around with President, which 279 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: is much more serious than flying just two hundred of 280 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: us across the country. I personally want to pilot chat 281 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: and they do both right. They're funny and they can fly. 282 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: But like, I'll take flying over funny and likable every day. 283 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: But we have I do it too, Like I would 284 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: pick candidates I would work for based on do I 285 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: like them? Do I want to be around them all 286 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: the time? That's not the right prioritization. Don't they have 287 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: to be great communicators though, Isn't that? Part of Donald 288 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: Trump's problem is that he just doesn't know how to 289 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: heal the nation and times of duress. He doesn't know 290 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: how to inspire anyone. All he knows is how to 291 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: you know, hate on people really and and to me, 292 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: communicating and setting a tone is as important as having 293 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: the cerebral qualities of coming up with the best policies. 294 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: But let me just add another little thing into that mix, 295 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: in that there's a great documentary about his eighty four 296 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: run and he's on camera saying, I'm I'm often called 297 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: cool and aloof that when we win that first primary, 298 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: everyone will call me enigmatic and he and and that's 299 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: exactly what happened. So he wins in a landslide. If 300 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: anyone's like, who's this guy out of nowhere? And Heart 301 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, people seem in this different prison. 302 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: So if we cut to seven, let's say he wins 303 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: the first four or five pa these twenty points, they 304 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: hit a bush. People seeing him in a whole different light. 305 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: He probably carries himself in a different light. He doesn't 306 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: have to work so like it would might have fit 307 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: perfectly with his character and we would have just gone, ah, 308 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: a lot of this guy. He's got great He doesn't 309 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: have to talk on and on like I think it's 310 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: it's just interesting that he did have an understanding of 311 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: human nature. And maybe it was events as much as anything. Well, 312 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: I'm front runners are covered differently. Heart was supposed by 313 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: everyone to be the next president United States, and so 314 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: he generated a lot of extra scrutiny. But I'm going 315 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: to ask you about how much the rules actually changed. 316 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: Because after Heart, Bill Clinton and Frankly, our current president 317 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: have gotten away with extramarital affairs. Why do you think 318 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: they were able to get through these controversies? But Heart 319 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: was I mean, Brian, it's it's exactly what I was saying. 320 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: You know, It's just what I was saying a moment ago. 321 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: Because you create a process that rewards a certain amount 322 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: of shamelessness and evasion and the willingness to drag your 323 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: family uh in one of the cameras and uh and 324 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: Frankly to be dishonest and uh, you know. I mean 325 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: you can look at it and say, well, Bill Clinton survived. 326 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 1: Now I look at Donald Trump and he's got all 327 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: this checker stuff and he just says whatever he wants 328 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: and sales through. Okay, But but I would look at it, 329 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: I would suggest that it's very different, which is, you 330 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: created a process that rewards an entirely different set of qualities. 331 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: What we think of his leadership now is not what 332 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,719 Speaker 1: we thought of his leadership prior to. It's not about ideas. 333 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: It's not about intellect, it's not about even a certain 334 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: amount of reserve, which people generally expected in their leaders. 335 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 1: It's now about how well how well can you evade 336 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: the traps, how well can you emode on que how 337 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: much of us? How much are you willing to share? What? 338 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: How much can you humanize yourself? Uh? And and and 339 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: how you know, can you lie effectively to get around 340 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: the things about yourself that would be that would be 341 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: morally damaging. I think when you create, when you change 342 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: the definition of what makes a great candidate, you you 343 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: you you get the candidates who meet those qualifications and 344 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 1: a pretty good candidate instant. It ends up being incidental. 345 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: You know, you may have someone who knows how to 346 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: do the job, but that's their performing ability that we're 347 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: looking at first. It's just what I was saying. It's 348 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: it's not can they fly the plane, it's it's their 349 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: performance ability. And oh, incidentally, they may have gone to 350 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: flight school. But we're not really asking those questions first. 351 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: That we have a process that rewards shamelessness. Is it 352 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 1: because there's no marketplace of ideas? I mean, is it 353 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: because of our modern media culture that emphasizes sort of 354 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: the quick uh, you know, dramatic theatrical aspect of a 355 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 1: candidate or a president. I mean, why did it all change? 356 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: I mean, are we just stupid? I mean, what is it? Well? 357 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 1: I think that's that's a chicken and egg question, right, 358 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: is it is it? Does the process dumbed down the 359 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 1: dialogue and and bleed bleeded of ideas or or does 360 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: a lack of ideas create a more vapid process. And 361 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: that's part of the conversation. I think people can debate, 362 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, when they when they think about these issues. 363 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: To your point B about Presdental Bomba, which is a 364 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 1: very interesting case and I think very actually quite similar 365 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: to Center Heart in some ways in terms personality. I 366 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: would actually argue that while President Obama is different than 367 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: the other people we talked about, his mere existence as 368 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 1: a candidate and president would not have been possible in 369 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: a process that we're not dominated by a kind of 370 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: entertainment narrative. He was the star of a drama. You know, 371 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: we call him no Drama Obama. The truth is he 372 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: had very little experience, very little qualification, had thought through 373 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: very little about governing the country. But he was a story. 374 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: There was a great story, arc and a great character 375 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: to what he sold the country. And I don't I 376 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: don't know, I know him, and I don't argue he 377 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: wasn't a good president. I'm simply saying he is part 378 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,719 Speaker 1: and parcel of of an euro where entertainment has become 379 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: intertwined and inseparable from politics. And I think this is 380 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: what we're looking at. Here is a genesis moment. It's 381 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: a moment, you know. What we're trying to show people 382 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: is a moment where it shifted so they can leave 383 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: and reflect and argue about how it got here, whether 384 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: it should have been different, and where the responsibility laws. 385 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 1: On the other hand, I was frustrated because ja I 386 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: kept thinking, why couldn't Gary Heart just keep it in 387 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: his pants? What the hell was wrong with him? I mean, look, 388 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, is it too much to expect? 389 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just not idealistic and naive, but I kind 390 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: of want my president to be faithful? Is that weird? Matt? 391 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: You want to notice that Teddy White said that of 392 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: all the candidates he covered in half a century for president, 393 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: only three Harry Truman, George Romney and Jimmy Carter had 394 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: not enjoyed the pleasure of quote casual partners, which is 395 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: kind of unbelievable. We could have I guess we could 396 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: have twenty Carter administrations if that's what you want. But uh, 397 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: you know, what should should I not care? You know? 398 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: You should care? I mean I think that, you know, 399 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: part of what we're arguing this movie is that like, 400 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: it's okay for you to care, that you and a 401 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: big block of voters do care, and that's that's just fine. 402 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 1: It's not we're not arguing to go backward. No no, 403 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: no, no no no. But everyone everyone may not care, um, 404 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: but it's absolutely if that's on your if that's you know, 405 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,919 Speaker 1: if that's if they didn't care about Bill Clinton and 406 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: suddenly now they care again because of Montica Lewinsky. M hmm. 407 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: But I mean to bring it back to the movie 408 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: The Clinton Cases. The Clinton case is an interesting one 409 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: because it goes back to what we're talking about. There's 410 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: a the performative skills and the and the willingness to 411 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: do anything to get through a scandal leads to you know, 412 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: he takes a number of steps that Gary Hart wasn't 413 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: willing to take. A eight you know, if you'll the 414 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: sixty minutes interview to start right, you know, I mean, 415 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: heart was like, I am not going to force my 416 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: wife to sit next to me and and do an 417 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: interview about this. I'm just not going to do it. 418 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,959 Speaker 1: And you know, other other candidates, they all had us. 419 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: They also had seemed to have a super weird relationship. 420 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: To me, I'm okay. First of all, the assumption that 421 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: all that happened with Gary is not a given. Uh 422 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 1: so that's not deny it actually, and he has been 423 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: on record to saying they had two separations to maybe 424 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: three during they just celebrated sixt winning anniversary and I 425 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 1: stayed with him at their house and Gary as she 426 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 1: was recovering from elective hip surgery. And Gary, at six 427 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, we had the tray with the 428 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: folded napkin and her pills for the thing and taking 429 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: the breakfast to her, and I saw nothing but love 430 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: and devotion and family and come on you sixty years 431 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: it's never it's not going to be all right. But 432 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: the point of the movie is not did he or 433 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: didn't he? Even if he did, is that disqualifying? But 434 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: I just feel I'm sitting here going I have to 435 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: stand up with Gary because I know if Gary's he 436 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: was like, well hang on his sex stop assuming that 437 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: I'm one of those presidents, but you know who or 438 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:45,479 Speaker 1: presidential candidates who did or didn't. We're talking to Hugh Jackman, 439 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: j Carson, and Matt By about their movie The front Runner. 440 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: Will be back with Moore right after this quick break. 441 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: Now back to Hugh jack and Jake Carson and that 442 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,239 Speaker 1: by Q. There's a famous moment that's covered in the 443 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: film when your character is asked by a reporter who's 444 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: e J. Dion in real life about his womanizing reputation. 445 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: God sick. Just ask whatever it is you came here 446 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: to ask. Whatever you're read. I told you to ask me. 447 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: This is beneath you. Okay, m do you feel like 448 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: you have a traditional marriage? Yeah? You want to know 449 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: what I'm doing all my spare time. AJ is that 450 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 1: it follow me around, put a tail on me, be 451 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 1: very bored. A couple of points on that heart. Didn't 452 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: think anybody would actually do it, and the Miami Herald 453 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: reporters were already part They used that post facto as 454 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 1: a justification. Yeah. I think I think Matt's book for Gary, 455 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: one great takeaway for him was that Finally, I mean 456 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: for probably the smartest politician that may have ever been 457 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: in American one the smartest to be known as doing 458 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: the dumbest thing. Well, I think to him was one 459 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: of one of those great injustices, as Matt Book put 460 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: that to right, so that it was a throwaway comment. 461 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: And yeah, and they were already following him around, you know. 462 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: But I encourage people to, Okay, so view the movie 463 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: and his this whole three weeks from the idea that 464 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: he did it right. Okay, so he did it, and 465 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: then view it from the prison that maybe there was 466 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: nothing we donn right, maybe nothing that he meant. Maybe 467 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: there's there's this whole story in the Atlantic that Lee 468 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: Atwater had set the whole thing up, And okay, take 469 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: that as a and view it from that prison, and 470 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 1: then watch a man who did not made it every time, right, 471 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 1: but buy a ticket every time. You just mentioned that. 472 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: It's kind of an aside that Jim Fallows piece in 473 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 1: the Atlantic was pretty fascinating, man, I'm curious your view 474 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 1: on this, since you're the world's expert. Basically, Fallows spoke 475 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: to a very famous media guy, Ray Struther, who were 476 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,360 Speaker 1: for Heart, who had like a deathbed conversation with Lee Atwater, 477 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: George Bush's strategist, who told him that the monkey business, 478 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: the images, the whole thing was sort of set up 479 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: by Bush's campaign. Do you buy that? I don't know, Brian, 480 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm like you. I find it fascinating. 481 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: I think here's what I know. I I think it's 482 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: perfectly plausible that the Republicans would have set out to 483 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: do Harden at that point. Uh. I also think that 484 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: so many decisions were made by people who I known 485 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: were not part of a plot that week that you know, 486 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: I don't think you could construct a Rube Goldberg machine 487 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: quite that intricate, right, people used judgment and bad judgment often, 488 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 1: and so I think, uh, it's possible both things were 489 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: going on. I don't think you could any conspiracy could 490 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: account for all the things that happened that week or 491 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: how it unfolded. But ultimately, for us, you know, where 492 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: it's it's just interesting. I mean, we're more interested in 493 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,160 Speaker 1: the forces that set it all in motion and how 494 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: it changed the industry. I mean, we regardless of what 495 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: set that in motion. Um, So I'm fascinating. I've talked 496 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 1: to Jim Follows about it, and I've given him new 497 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 1: paths to down and I hope he keeps looking at 498 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: it because I think it's a fun thing to speculate about. 499 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: But it is just really expect relevant if if it happened, 500 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: is it still is that like maybe for you that 501 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: is that that disqualifies someone as a candidate. But I 502 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know if it does or not. Honestly, 503 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: I think sometimes it's a reaction to it um that 504 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: that if he had said I don't know if I 505 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: if we can go back to seven and say, well, 506 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: what should he have done? What could he have done? 507 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: Could he have somehow gotten out of this for the 508 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: good of the country to to push forward his idea? 509 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 1: I think that I'm watching it. I was like, if 510 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 1: Gary was only interested in political survival, I have no 511 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: doubt he could have got out of that in a seconds. 512 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 1: What we have done here, I've been I've been for starters. 513 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,719 Speaker 1: I've been on record. You know, my wife and I 514 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: have been married for thirty years. We've had two or 515 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: three separations, but we're together, we're working on it, and 516 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: like any couple, we committed to doing our best. Anyway. 517 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: Can we move on to economic like moving on, like 518 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: so in the moment, because that's what I'm saying. If 519 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: you view from the prison, Let's say nothing happened right 520 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: with that situation, and then you've got a man whose 521 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: principle is the first thing is I'm going to protect 522 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: my wife and children. So every time I get asked 523 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: a question, my now grown up children are listening to 524 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: this about their mom and dad. My wife is hearing 525 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: me talk about this right, and he was against that. 526 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: That's like, that's a betrayal to them. And it's not 527 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: my right to just talk about our private life as 528 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: well as the political process. Like every time I answer 529 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: that question, every time I answer the question boxes or 530 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: briefs or what's my dog's name, I am draining down 531 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: the i Q of this political process. So he refused 532 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: to do it. So let's say he's innocent, he can 533 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: save himself politically, but he opts, you know what, I'm not, 534 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: that's not a question I'm going to answer. Then he 535 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 1: becomes almost like a marter, you know. So that's what 536 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: I find is interesting about this process, you know. But 537 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: I think everyone just vieuses from the perspective of personal survival. 538 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: And he could have saved himself, but he may have 539 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: had more at stake, I guess, but he really fell 540 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: on his sword, right, And Donna Rice was just sort of, 541 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: you know, just one instance. And I mean maybe I'm wrong, 542 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: but weren't there a lot of other Daly? I mean, 543 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: he been, he been, as you know, you have separated 544 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: twice for a long periods of time, so it's it's hard. Yeah, yeah, 545 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: I mean the candidates do not hang out with Warren Beatty. 546 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: There's still a close friend in the film. You know, 547 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: you see, you know, the evidence of another diet. But 548 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: since you raised Donna Rice, can we talk about that 549 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: from it, because because that was really, um, really important 550 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: to us, both and Donna Rice. You know, somebody who 551 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: went through this kind of modern scandal as the other 552 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: woman for the first time really gets reduced to a 553 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,239 Speaker 1: punch line is just as defined by this and and 554 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: made justice to dimensional as hard was, and then you know, 555 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: expanding that to all the other women you see in 556 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: the film. You know, we really it was very important 557 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: to us. You know, obviously I talked to Don a 558 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,239 Speaker 1: lot for the book. This is very important for us 559 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: to make sure that that perspective was not just expressed 560 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: and not like in a token way, but actually like 561 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: that we had three dimensional cares that Donna Rice was 562 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: shown to be a very real human being with potential 563 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: and emotions and she's bright and she's principled. And you know, 564 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: we worked very hard at Helen Esterbrook, our producer. You know, 565 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: everyone writing the script were guys, obviously, and Helen our producer, 566 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: who was so brilliant and kept you know, with every draft, uh, 567 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: you know, pushing us on, you know, what was complicated enough, 568 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: what was important to understand about a woman's bit of 569 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: how women in these situations get burdened with speaking for 570 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: their entire gender. You know, I have to stand in. 571 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: We really worked hard at it, and I think it's 572 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: one of the things we're all really proud of. And 573 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: the performances women in the film gives Sarah Packson chief 574 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: among them. I just think it's um and and very famiga. 575 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: Of course, it is amazing. Just I just you know, 576 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: she brings you to tears, and I just think that's 577 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: an aspect of the film. We've worked for a hard 578 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: one and we're very, very proud. I really liked the 579 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: line by the Washington Was that the Washington Post I 580 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: couldn't quite figure out she had a big job at 581 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: the yeah yeah, and she said a line about power, Uh, 582 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: he's a man. A man with power has opportunity and 583 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: take responsibility. For me that that line really resonated because 584 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: as I wrestled myself watching this like doesn't matter? Should 585 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: it matter? I felt like she was channeling the me 586 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 1: too movement? And this is we wrote it before that 587 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: and right the moment when the Donna Rice character says 588 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: to the female heart aid, I've worked my entire life 589 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: so that people like you wouldn't look at a person 590 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: like me the way you are right now. Very powerful. Really, 591 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: we tried to show everyone in this as as three 592 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: dimensional human beings, the journalists, the women, and the candidates, 593 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: the voters, um, you know, and show their their struggle 594 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: and their pain as they go through this crazy process 595 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: that no one had ever faced before. Now, you guys, 596 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: I know, want this to be relevant and you want 597 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: this to spur conversation. I mean, what do you hope 598 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: that are some of the issues that people will be 599 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: grappling with long after they leave this movie, in terms 600 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: of the role of the press and the responsibility of 601 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: our leaders and the climate and what we need to 602 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: care about, etcetera, etcetera. I mean, what are you hoping 603 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: people will think of? Certainly all of these questions and 604 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: hats off to both of you guys and Jackson, which 605 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: it's a script really without answers, And it would have 606 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: been easy to give answers. You guys know that world 607 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: inside and out. It would have been easy to give that, 608 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: but you don't. And in the end, for what that 609 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: does for me and I hope perhaps it does for 610 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: everyone else, is what's my personal responsibility? Now I'm actually 611 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: a historian, but of course you still wear responsibility. It's 612 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: my fault. But we do in our choices of how 613 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: we consume news, of how we vote. Are we what 614 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: is our civic duty? Rather, you know what, how are 615 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: we participating in the process? What is important to me? 616 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: Have I really thought this through? Do I actually know what? What? Sorry? 617 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: I know about the boat and the girl? What will 618 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: Gary huts policies? Again? Like you know what I mean? 619 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: Like when we pick up our phone, and we all 620 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: have the phone, it gives us four stories right the 621 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: moment you wake up, and two of them one of 622 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: Ariana Grande and Pete Davidson. And do we click on 623 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: that one. You know what, are we actively working out 624 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: what is important over what is entertaining or interesting? And 625 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: I think that's the question I hope people end up 626 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: grappling with. Now, that's that's really well said from my prospect. 627 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: Drum mean and we we we deliberately made a film 628 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: that we hope gets people thinking and debating among themselves. 629 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: We we we hope and it's been our experience that 630 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: people walk out of the theater actually having an argument 631 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: about it because we don't have the answers, as Jason 632 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: always says, and it really resonates with me as a 633 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: journalist because it's always been my journalistic impulse as well. 634 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: He starts a story with a question and that he 635 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: wants to ask, not with an answer. And this is 636 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: not a film that gives you answers. If you're looking 637 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: for them, you might be disappointed. I think this is 638 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: a This is a This is a film that that 639 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: shows you a moment that you may not have known existed, 640 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: where it set us on a path, and and asks 641 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: everybody involved, including you sitting in there watching it, to 642 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: reflect on on where what the consequences of those decisions are, 643 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: Whether you would have made the same decisions, and I 644 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: think it's a for that reason, it's a very personal experience. 645 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: I think watching it, we could use a little less 646 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: relevance with this movie. And honestly, yeah, we started writing it, 647 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: like you know, during the Obama administration, and all of 648 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: a sudden, it felt like the world was catching up 649 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: to the movie in terms of two thousand and sixteen 650 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: election and me too, and um, it's really a question 651 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: of what's what's relevant and what's important, and the movie 652 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: actually asks that of you. From the first shot to 653 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: the last, and that first two and a half minute 654 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: one or which is our Hollywood speak for it's just 655 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: a single shot uncut, you're tracking through different conversations. You're 656 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: trying to figure out what's going on, and you're trying 657 00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: to do I want to listen to the guys talk 658 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: about how to jump at a golf cart? Or do 659 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: I want to watch this? Do I want to watch 660 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: Walter Mondale on TV? Do I want to watch Gary Hart? 661 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: Do I want You're trying to catch up to the 662 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: last scene where you have a marriage trying to hold 663 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: on on the left side of the screen and Gary 664 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:12,879 Speaker 1: Heart giving a speech on the right side, and We're 665 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: just literally asking the audience for the entire time, for 666 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: the entire time, to grapple with what's relevant and what's important. Well, 667 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: it's really timely despite the fact everything happened in nine seven. 668 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 1: I can't think of a better dream team to bring 669 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: this story to life than the three really three of 670 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: my favorite people all around the table and YouTube. Brian 671 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: really really appreciate it and love to see you all. 672 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,439 Speaker 1: The front Runner, starring Hugh Jackman is in theaters now 673 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: and that's all we got for you today. The crack 674 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: team that made this show is producer Emma Morgan Stern, 675 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: associate producer Nora Richie, and audio engineer Jared O'Connell, and 676 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: is always a big thank you to Julia Lewis who 677 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 1: helps with my so social media, Jim Brown who helps 678 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: us book guests, and Beth Demas my assistant. Jared Arnold 679 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: composed our theme music. You can find me on Twitter 680 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: under at Goldsmith b and Katie is breaking the Internet 681 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 1: every day while keeping her clothes on on Instagram, Facebook 682 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: and Twitter as what else k K. Most most days 683 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: I'm keeping my clothes on. If you have thoughts about 684 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: the show, our questions for us please reach out. Our 685 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: email address is comments at currect podcast dot com, or 686 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: you can leave us a voicemail by calling nine to 687 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: four four six three seven. As always, thanks so much 688 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: for listening. We so appreciate your support and we'll see 689 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: you next week