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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How does a beautiful eighteen

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Speaker 1: year old girl the world in front of her, graduates

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Speaker 1: from high school planning college, move in right across the

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Speaker 1: street from her high school where she just graduates, a

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Speaker 1: perfectly safe neighborhood, and then ends up not only raped,

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Speaker 1: but murdered. To this day, no suspects And how is

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Speaker 1: it we know the color of the killer's eyes, the

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Speaker 1: color of his hair, what his face looks like, but

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Speaker 1: we don't know who he is. How can that be?

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Like many parents, I thought

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Speaker 1: this will never happen to me. She remembers how it started.

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Speaker 1: And I opened the door to this young sheriff standing

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Speaker 1: in the rain, and he had a piece of paper

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Speaker 1: in his hand. He just quickly said to me, are

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Speaker 1: you magazing? And I said yeah. He said, you need

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Speaker 1: to call Tulsa Police. Your daughter has been murdered. She

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Speaker 1: had left Brittany of voicemail days before, Britty, please call me.

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Speaker 1: I know you're okay that I just need to hear

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Speaker 1: from you. Next thing she knew, she's standing in Brittany's

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Speaker 1: apartment swarming with investigators. Britty dropped the friend off at

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Speaker 1: her apartment complex at fifty first Memorial. Britney drives home

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Speaker 1: the last time her friends saw her. I think ahead

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Speaker 1: and checked well being and find Brittany deceased inside her apartment.

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Speaker 1: You're hearing her friends at kJ R A Channel two

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Speaker 1: and Tulsa. How did this happen? And who is Brittany?

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Speaker 1: A name that crime fighters all across the country. No,

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Speaker 1: Brittany Phillips. Well, listen to this our friends at crime online.

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Speaker 1: After graduating from Union High School, Brittaney Phillips is off

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Speaker 1: to Saint Petersburg, Florida and Eckard College on a full

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Speaker 1: chemistry scholarship. The eighteen year old gets homesick though, after

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Speaker 1: one semester and decides to move back to Tulsa. Enrolling

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Speaker 1: in Tulsa Community College, Phillips gets an apartment across from

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Speaker 1: her high school. A full scholarship in chemistry. That's not easy,

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Speaker 1: But what more do we know? What is her background?

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to Vincent Hill kJ R eight. Maggie

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Speaker 1: says she had her hands full when she had her

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Speaker 1: second child, Brittany, so much so that she gave her

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Speaker 1: this nickname accident because by the time she was three,

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Speaker 1: I think she had been to the emergency room three times.

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Speaker 1: As Brittany got older, Maggie says she worried for a

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Speaker 1: different reason. She was the typical teenager running around with

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Speaker 1: her friend. Brittany was a great student. She graduated a

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Speaker 1: year early and headed off to college in Florida, but

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Speaker 1: quickly became homesick. She decided at the end of the

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Speaker 1: second semester to move back to Tulsa. Brittany enrolled at

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Speaker 1: Tulsa Community College and got her own apartment in a

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Speaker 1: location they thought would be safe where we had never

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Speaker 1: heard about anything bad happening. So attached to home and

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Speaker 1: family and mom, she gets so homesick even with a

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Speaker 1: full chemistry scholarship, she moves back home to continue school.

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Speaker 1: Listen to Jackie Howard at Crime Online. On September twenty seventh,

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Speaker 1: Phillips plays chauffeur for a friend, taking them home, and

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Speaker 1: then she talks to her mom on the phone. Over

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Speaker 1: the next couple of days, mother, doctor Maggie Zingman, calls

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Speaker 1: her daughter to no answer. Getting worried, she leaves a

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Speaker 1: message to be immediately contacted. Zingingman is not the only

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Speaker 1: one who's worried during the same period of time. Phillip

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Speaker 1: smiss is a appointments and classes. One of her friends

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Speaker 1: requests the Tulsa Police Department do a wellness check on

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Speaker 1: Brittany Phillips. A wellness check when you call police to

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Speaker 1: just go literally check on a person you're worried about

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Speaker 1: with me and all Star panel. Joining us John wu

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Speaker 1: Dial PI lawyer out of Winter Park and he's the

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Speaker 1: author of the method Proven Techniques for Winning Jury Trials

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Speaker 1: at johnwdel dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall, psycho Analysts to

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Speaker 1: the Stars, Joining us out of Beverly Hill. She's the

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Speaker 1: star of a new hit series Bleeding Empire on Netflix.

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Speaker 1: Founder director of the Coldcase Research Institute. Joining us today.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, forensics expert. You can find her at Coldcase

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Speaker 1: Crimes dot org. Doctor Kindall Crowns, the Deputy Chief Medical Examiner,

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Speaker 1: Chaves County, Texas. That's Austin lecturer, University Texas and Texas

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Speaker 1: A and M and Faculty, a University of Texas Medical

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Speaker 1: Branch special guest Share a Little Point. Genetic genealogist, author

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Speaker 1: of the gene Hunter spelled g E n E and

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Speaker 1: founder of gene hunter dot com. And Nicole Parton Crime

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Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter on Twitter at Nicole Parton.

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Speaker 1: But first I want to go to a special guest

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Speaker 1: joining us, doctor Maggie Zengman. This is Britney's mother, trauma psychologist.

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Speaker 1: You can find her at Brittany Phillips Murder dot nett.

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Speaker 1: You may also find her under Caravan to Catch a Killer. Maggie,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for this voice and for all these exports

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Speaker 1: to give in Putt. I mean, this is such a

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Speaker 1: gift for me. Really, you know, Maggie, I feel the

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Speaker 1: same way when I speak to you, because you are

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Speaker 1: if they had a picture in the dictionary beside perseverance,

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Speaker 1: it would be you. Thank you your devotion and your

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Speaker 1: iron will to bring justice for Brittany. It's really unlike

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Speaker 1: anything I've ever seen. And I know I've asked you

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Speaker 1: this before, Maggie. Doctor Maggie, tell me what happened when

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Speaker 1: you got the at your door. Well, of course I

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Speaker 1: was not expecting forage, some young sheriff to be sitting

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Speaker 1: out there. And when his words, you know, came out

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Speaker 1: all your Maggie thing, then you know, I thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe she maybe she was involvement in a crash. Now,

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Speaker 1: maybe something happened, but I didn't expect the next words,

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Speaker 1: which were quick and then he left words, your daughter's

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Speaker 1: been murdered. You need to call to Felton. That calls

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Speaker 1: the police department, you know, And that was just I mean,

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Speaker 1: anybody who's ever been given those words? I mean I

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Speaker 1: just felt confused, I felt shocked. I just oriented, didn't

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Speaker 1: know what to do, and of course didn't want to

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Speaker 1: believe it. Wanted to believe that, oh that just have

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Speaker 1: identified somebody wrong. And doctor Bethany Marshall joining us psychoanalysts,

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Speaker 1: I know that feeling. I mean, you know doctor Bethany's

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Speaker 1: I've told you I thought it. I knew it all

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Speaker 1: about grief and mourning when my fiance was murdered. But

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Speaker 1: now that I have children, Doctor Bethany, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: can't even really begin to comprehend what doctor Maggie Zingman

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Speaker 1: has gone through. What is that immediate reaction. I mean,

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Speaker 1: when I look back on the moment I learned something

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Speaker 1: horrible had happened to Keith, it doesn't really even seem

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Speaker 1: real to this day, doesn't seem real, like maybe looking

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Speaker 1: back on it's like I'm looking at a movie or

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Speaker 1: a clip of something just didn't seem like it was

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Speaker 1: happening to me. Like doctor Maggie just said, what is

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Speaker 1: that human response called nancy. It's hard to even describe.

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Speaker 1: It's so disorienting. You're in one reality for years, you

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Speaker 1: give birth to a child, you or in your case,

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Speaker 1: with your fiance, You meet somebody, you fall in love,

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Speaker 1: you have a relationship, You are imagining a whole future,

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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden your mind has to

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Speaker 1: accept a new reality that that is all gone. Or

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Speaker 1: you have a child and you know, as you know

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Speaker 1: when you had John David and Lucy Debt, your their

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Speaker 1: whole well being is dependent upon you, and you're the

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Speaker 1: course of your life is forever altered. You are thinking

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Speaker 1: about their birth day, at school and braids and homework,

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Speaker 1: and when they'll go off to college, get married, when

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Speaker 1: you'll have grandchildren, and then all of a sudden, that's gone.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the fact that the mind has to be

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Speaker 1: in one reality and then in another. It's so disorienting.

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Speaker 1: Is not even the right word. It's something that takes days, months,

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Speaker 1: years to even accept. And this young sheriff came to

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Speaker 1: doctor Maggie's door and just said it so matter of factly,

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Speaker 1: and her whole life course was altered in that one minute.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to describe, but I think it's your brain

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Speaker 1: having to wrap its your mind wrapping itself around a

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Speaker 1: new reality that you have to do it in one minute,

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Speaker 1: but it really takes years to undergo that process. Time

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grain. Guys, we are talking about the

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Speaker 1: brutal rate and murder of a gorgeous young girl, a

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Speaker 1: teen girl, beautiful on the inside and the outside, a

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Speaker 1: case that is still unsolved. Won't you help us? Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at crime Online. A late

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Speaker 1: night knock on the door woke doctor Maggie Zingman. On

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Speaker 1: the other side of the door a homicide detective with

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Speaker 1: the Tulsa Police Department. When the police perform their welfare check,

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Speaker 1: they find Philip's moody on her bed and clear evidence

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Speaker 1: of a struggle in her room. Police say it is

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Speaker 1: evident that Phillips tried to fight her attacker. It's thought

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Speaker 1: that at one point the killer slammed her against the wall.

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Speaker 1: The medical examiner determines Phillips has been raped and strangled.

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Speaker 1: Her estimated time of death is between nine pm on

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Speaker 1: September twenty seventh and eight am on September twenty eight

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Speaker 1: to John W. Dill, veteran trial lawyer or PI lawyer

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Speaker 1: out of Winter Park, at John wdel dot com. You know, John,

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Speaker 1: you and I both tried a lot of cases, and

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Speaker 1: of course me as a criminal prosecutor, you on the

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Speaker 1: civil side. And I've noticed and I'm wondering if you

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Speaker 1: have two and for instance personal injury cases or wrongful death,

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Speaker 1: the victim's family sometime even at trial, have not really

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Speaker 1: absorbed what has happened. And I blame part of that

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Speaker 1: on the fact that they haven't really had a time

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Speaker 1: to absorb it, to reconcile with it, because until the

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Speaker 1: purpose put behind bars and the civil cases are over,

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Speaker 1: you've been constantly like picking at a scat or a

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Speaker 1: wound or ripping the stitches out of a suture, and

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Speaker 1: until that is done, you can't heal. And the trial

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Speaker 1: process and the investigation just prolongs it. John. Absolutely, I

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Speaker 1: find that even in cases where somebody is on trial

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Speaker 1: or there's a responsible party, that pending thing that continues

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Speaker 1: to go on until there's there really isn't any closure

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Speaker 1: that's probably the worst term people used. But until that

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Speaker 1: process completes, there's no way for it to be that

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Speaker 1: chapter to be at least addressed and put behind them.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's a very real thing that happens throughout

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Speaker 1: the entire prices in criminal answers to Deputy Chief Medical

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Speaker 1: Examiner Travis County, Texas has Austin doctor Kendall Crowns. Doctor Crowns,

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Speaker 1: that t D time of death is not really helping

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Speaker 1: me that much. Did you hear that? That's a span

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Speaker 1: of what did they say, Cheryl McCollum, from like eight

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Speaker 1: pm to five am? Some attenuated open window. What did

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Speaker 1: they say, cheryls from nine pm own September twenty seventh

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Speaker 1: till about eight am the next day, doctor Kendall Crowns.

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Speaker 1: For peace's sake, all those years in medical school, that's

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Speaker 1: the best you can give me. It's not like that

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Speaker 1: on TV, Crowns. Sure, it's sure, isn't Right? Before I

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Speaker 1: go answer your question, I just want to say that

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Speaker 1: I am sorry productor thing them bloss and it's it's

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Speaker 1: hard for to hear a parents talk about the laws

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Speaker 1: of their child, but thanking. But we'll move on to

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Speaker 1: the science now, which makes me far less emotional. But

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Speaker 1: so trying to give a time of death is very

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Speaker 1: difficult because bodies decomposed at different rates. The books will

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Speaker 1: tell you you know the body decomposed, there's set things

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Speaker 1: that happened at set times during during the day or

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Speaker 1: during the process and decomposition. But the problem is no

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Speaker 1: one decomposes under ideal circumstances. So if you've exercised, if

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Speaker 1: you've used drugs, if you've at the particular way you

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Speaker 1: died was particularly violent, these will all speed up the

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Speaker 1: decomposition process. And then also if you're in a cold

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Speaker 1: environment or you don't have a lot of muscle masks,

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Speaker 1: they'll slow down the decomposition process. So because of all

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Speaker 1: those factors, it's very difficult to give an evact time

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Speaker 1: of death. So that's why we give a range, Doctor

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Speaker 1: Kettle Crowns. Can't you take the temperature of the body,

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Speaker 1: compare it to the ambiance temperature in the room and

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Speaker 1: calculate how many hours have passed based upon the temperature

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Speaker 1: of the body the coolness of the body. So there

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Speaker 1: has been attempts to do that, but the science behind

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Speaker 1: them has found that it's not all that accurate. And

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Speaker 1: the other problem is that the body will start matching

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Speaker 1: the ambient picture. So if it's a warm environment, the

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Speaker 1: body might become warmer. And it is just difficult. Those

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Speaker 1: those formulas have actually been found to not be all

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Speaker 1: that accurate. Okay, that's why you're the MD and I'm

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Speaker 1: the JD. Okay, what about following the victims food and

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Speaker 1: finding out at what point the food is digested? I mean,

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Speaker 1: to which point the food has been digested based on

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Speaker 1: the last known meal. Yeah. Again that there's no way

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Speaker 1: to definitively tell the exact time frame that the digestion

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Speaker 1: can occur, and digestion can be altered and changed for

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Speaker 1: different people, so it isn't accurate science again, and there's

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Speaker 1: no way to do a case study on that, you know,

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Speaker 1: have eight people eat food and then determine what their

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Speaker 1: summit contents where. So again, the science there's just not

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Speaker 1: something you can hang your at. You know what, doctor

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Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, I don't like anything you just said because

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Speaker 1: it's not helping me. It is not helping me nail

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Speaker 1: down a time of death. It's well, that's an interesting that.

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Speaker 1: You know, most bea the law enforcement they will get

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Speaker 1: very frustrated with that answer. And I am right now

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Speaker 1: years that's correct. And the problem is that I can't

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Speaker 1: give you an accurate estimate because the science shows that

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Speaker 1: you can't give an accurate estimate. And if I am

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Speaker 1: just safe you, oh that's three hours, four hours, it

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Speaker 1: potentially wrongfully convicts someone that will not actually involved. So

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Speaker 1: you've got to go with the science. You can't you

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Speaker 1: can't make stuff up. And because if someone guilty, they're guilty,

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Speaker 1: but you can't make someone guilty. That's not take Let

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Speaker 1: me have you stick with Madison, okay, because nobody's trying

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Speaker 1: to convict an innocent person. So you're going way way way.

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Speaker 1: You're way out of line, Crowns. Let me just put

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Speaker 1: that out there and before you can say anything back,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to this. On October first, two thousand

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Speaker 1: and four, doctor Maggie Zeman's world came crashing down. That

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Speaker 1: is when she learned her daughter, Britney Phillips, had been murdered.

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Speaker 1: The eighteen year old chemistry major at TCC was brutally

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Speaker 1: attacked in her apartment. The DNA profiles of thousands of

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Speaker 1: men have been compared to the DNA that was found

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Speaker 1: at the crime scene, but so far no match has

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Speaker 1: been found. Zengman has dedicated her life to traveling the

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Speaker 1: country and raising awareness about Britney's case. Crime stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace circling back to doctor Kendall Crown's if you

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Speaker 1: had just left it at that's the science and that's

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Speaker 1: the truth, I would have understood that. But then when

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Speaker 1: you go on to say you don't want to convict

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Speaker 1: an innocent person, nobody even said that. Where did you

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Speaker 1: get that? But I will say I do respect what

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Speaker 1: you said. I don't like it, but I respect it.

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Speaker 1: It's just it reminds me Cheryl McCollum when I have

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Speaker 1: a crime victim and they want to go forward, especially

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Speaker 1: in a sex assault case or child molln station, but

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Speaker 1: the statute of limitations has passed. I don't like it,

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Speaker 1: but that's the law. That is the law in many

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Speaker 1: jurisdictions is there's not a darn thing you can do

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Speaker 1: about it. So sometimes I don't like what Crowns says,

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Speaker 1: but it's true, which leads me to you, Cheryl McCallum,

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Speaker 1: founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Did you

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Speaker 1: hear what they just said? kJ R? H Channel two

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Speaker 1: TULTSA that there were thousands of men compared to a

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Speaker 1: DNA profile. Explain to me, oh oh, and remind me.

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Speaker 1: I want to circle back to Crowns about if you'll

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Speaker 1: still talk to me about how we know they think

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Speaker 1: she was slammed up against a wall and then a raped.

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Speaker 1: It was done. We know that she was raped. How

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Speaker 1: do I know she was raped and there was not

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Speaker 1: consensual sex? Believe me she was raped. And he's going

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Speaker 1: to tell you how we know that. I want to

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Speaker 1: circle back to him on that while he nurses his wounds.

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Speaker 1: But Cheryl McCollum, you on the DNA it was compared

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Speaker 1: into CODIS and in that system they are literally don't

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Speaker 1: use anachronisms, Okay. CODIS is the combined DNA index system.

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Speaker 1: Combined DNA index system, that's CODIS. And explain how CODIS

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Speaker 1: fits into this case, Chryl. They have put the suspects

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Speaker 1: DNA into that system and literally, you know, cross checked

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Speaker 1: it with every single convicted felon that has got their

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Speaker 1: DNA in that system. Every rapist, every murderer. They've cross

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Speaker 1: checked it. Of the DNA samples that we have. There's

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Speaker 1: no mach joining me. Right now. Crime online dot Com

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter Nicole Parton. Nicole, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Let's just go back to the beginning. Tell me about

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Speaker 1: what happened that we know of to Brittany Phillips. So

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Speaker 1: what we know is that Brittany had finished up a

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Speaker 1: pretty typical Monday, leaving her community college there in the evening,

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Speaker 1: dropping a friend off at her home, and then making

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Speaker 1: that mill or so trip to Brittany's own apartment. That

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Speaker 1: was the last time Brittany was seen when she dropped

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Speaker 1: her friend off a mile or so away, she gets

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Speaker 1: to her apartment, she gets upstairs. She lives in the

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Speaker 1: second floor, second story apartment. And that's all we know,

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Speaker 1: and that's why we have that timeline of sometime between

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Speaker 1: nine pm and then eight am the next morning, when

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, Brittany is not showing up for

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Speaker 1: her classes, and that's when her friends become concerned. We

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Speaker 1: know that she left college, We know that she dropped

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Speaker 1: her friend off, We know she made that mile or

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Speaker 1: so drive home, got into the house, and beyond that,

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Speaker 1: we don't know what happened. You know, doctor Maggie Zingman,

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Speaker 1: this is Brittany's mom one mile drive. What could happen?

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Speaker 1: And the time she drops her friend girl off and

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Speaker 1: then she gets in her apartment. Was somebody in her car?

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Speaker 1: Was somebody stalking outside of her apartment? Was somebody in

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Speaker 1: her apartment? One mile? That's all she had to make

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Speaker 1: one mile home, Doctor Maggie, I know, I know, and

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Speaker 1: it's been crushing that it was in those first eight

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Speaker 1: years of the detective. I mean they were looking at

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Speaker 1: I think she was also at an urgent care. I

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Speaker 1: mean that's where I had talked her before she took

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Speaker 1: up her friend home and she couldn't get in to

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Speaker 1: see the doctor. And so we don't know if somebody

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Speaker 1: alter from there, if somebody I think they found out

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Speaker 1: that she went to Bank of America ATM because they

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Speaker 1: found receiat from that. We don't know if somebody was

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Speaker 1: waiting there. The very first day that I met Detective

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Speaker 1: Felt and he went into her closet. But have you

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Speaker 1: ever seen this? And it was a communal entry into

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Speaker 1: the attic for all the four upstairs apartment, so I

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Speaker 1: know they looked up there for evidence. So we don't

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Speaker 1: know if he was there or there was about to

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Speaker 1: me that people could hike up on. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's all these multiple things that could have happened. Let

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Speaker 1: me go back doctor Maggie's Englan. This is Britney's mom.

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Speaker 1: What did you say about a communal entry to the

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Speaker 1: attic that sourced out of Britney's closet. Yeah, out of

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Speaker 1: all four closets, of all the fourth apartments and in

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Speaker 1: that whole complex. And so that means anybody getting into

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Speaker 1: the attic, you know, for service or I discovered that

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Speaker 1: you could climb on the outside stairs and get yourself

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Speaker 1: up onto the roof, and I think there was a

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Speaker 1: common entry up there, you know, so we wonder if

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Speaker 1: somebody was waiting in there. So they looked at a

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Speaker 1: lot of you know, customer service people, cable guys exactly,

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Speaker 1: telephoning guys, yeah, maintenance, all those things. Wow, you know,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollough, right, when you think you can start narrowing

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Speaker 1: down your substate pool, then you get a rent in

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Speaker 1: the works. That communal entryway is one of the things

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Speaker 1: that to me, nightmares are made of the idea that

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Speaker 1: her doors can be locked, her windows are locked, there's

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Speaker 1: no fourth entry. How did they get in there? And

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Speaker 1: then you discover there's a secret door in a closet

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Speaker 1: that could have been access by seven different apartments, and

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Speaker 1: the roof. As we are talking about a brutal rape

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Speaker 1: and murder of a teen girl, her mother, doctor Maggie

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Speaker 1: Zengman with us today, who has been on literally a

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Speaker 1: quest for justice to find the killer. There is a

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Speaker 1: six thousand dollar reward. The tipline is nine one eight

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Speaker 1: seven nine eight eight four seven seven repeat nine one

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Speaker 1: eight seven nine eight eight four seven seven. And I

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Speaker 1: will never forget when I met doctor Maggie, and when

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Speaker 1: I saw her van. Have you ever seen if you've

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Speaker 1: been in Vegas, I know you've seen it. You mean,

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Speaker 1: I like what you see. But they shrink rap Practically

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Speaker 1: every car that goes by in Vegas is shrink wrapped

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Speaker 1: with an ad usually for a strip bar, but they're

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Speaker 1: always bright, bold colors. You can't help but look at it.

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Speaker 1: Her whole van is shrink wrapped. Trying to find Brittany's killer.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at Channel two told

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Speaker 1: police say there were signs of an altercation before she

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Speaker 1: was raped and strangled to death. All I could think

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Speaker 1: of was how long she was heard? How long she

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Speaker 1: was dead? Investigators tested DNA from the scene. Any kind

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Speaker 1: of crimes that are even remotely similar we're looking into,

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Speaker 1: but came up with nothing. Doctors ingman's final goodbye to

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Speaker 1: her daughter through a blanket. I basically had pat her

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Speaker 1: head as I always had say goodbye her. I just

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Speaker 1: rubbed my finger down her nose and just and I

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Speaker 1: just said, I'm sorry, Brettie, and I'm sorry this happened.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry I didn't protect you. I'm sorry, said they

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Speaker 1: won't even let me touch you. You know, it's probably

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Speaker 1: the case. I spend most of my time on police

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Speaker 1: figured the murderer could be anywhere. You know. Hearing you speaking, Doge,

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Speaker 1: it makes me want to rip off this mic and

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Speaker 1: this earpiece and get in my mini van and get

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Speaker 1: to my children right now and just look at them

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Speaker 1: and make sure they're okay. Because you had done everything

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Speaker 1: you could possibly do to protect Brittany, and to hear

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Speaker 1: that you had to kiss her goodbye through a blanket.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean? Well, you know, it's something both

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Speaker 1: the way I was told how she was killed, and

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Speaker 1: then they took the body, they identified her by her license.

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Speaker 1: It didn't let me see her and identify her. And

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Speaker 1: that was the funeral director who said, well, she's been autopsy,

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Speaker 1: so we don't think you should be because you's me

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Speaker 1: too shocking. And you know, back then I didn't have

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Speaker 1: a voice. But later on, when I was working with

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Speaker 1: OSBI said, you know, we're already shocked. One thing you

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00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: need to do for families is you need to allow

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Speaker 1: them to make you know the decision, you know, And

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Speaker 1: I didn't know I had that voice, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: basically I was just following what I would cold. You know,

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Speaker 1: since then, I've taught a lot of police departments and

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Speaker 1: bureaus that you know it, this can add trauma to

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Speaker 1: the already trauma that they're going through, you know, doctor

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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, there's a lot of schools of thought regarding

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Speaker 1: whether you should see your loved one's dead body. I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to see my fiance's and from that point

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Speaker 1: on I would be plagued with nightmares, and when I

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Speaker 1: would try to see him, I would always see in

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Speaker 1: the dream like a zipped up body bag, or i'd

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Speaker 1: hear his voice and look for him, but I couldn't

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Speaker 1: see him. So not seeing a dead body can have

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Speaker 1: a lot of effects. You would never even contemplate, whereas

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Speaker 1: seeing a dead body then you've got that image in

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Speaker 1: your head the rest of your life. So Nancy, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's the answer. It's such a complex question that you're asking.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it depends on the individual family member and

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Speaker 1: how they grieve. And doctor Mackey, what do you think?

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Speaker 1: I mean? Was it helpful? Was it not? What do

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Speaker 1: you think? No? I think I agree. You know, for Nancy,

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Speaker 1: the choice was not to For me, I really wanted to.

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Speaker 1: And part of my way I've survived the seventeen years

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Speaker 1: is I haven't only thought about myself, but because I'm

425
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: a toronal and psychologist. I was in twenty years now

426
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: it's thirty five years. But you know, I've just talked

427
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: to thousands of families and it's that lack of choice,

428
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: I think, or this you know, sort of bias that

429
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: you know, we granted I you know, I have a

430
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: different background, but it really didn't help me in those

431
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: first days, and so a lot of things that affected

432
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: me strongly. I'm now trying to say, you know, it

433
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: has need to choice because so much of your life

434
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: is out of control, that that was just one more

435
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: thing that was out of my control. She was taken

436
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: from an apartment before eating. You know, it's interesting, doctor Maggie.

437
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: If I did it over, I would have gone to

438
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: see his body, if I could make the choice over.

439
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: And when my dad passed away, knowing what I then knew,

440
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: I never left his body ever. Everybody else left, they

441
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: can started cleaning out the room, and I stayed with

442
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: him until the very end. So I think you're right.

443
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, I want you to

444
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at crime Online. Over

445
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: seventy swabs of potential DNA are collected at the scene,

446
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: including blood and semen, least believed from Philip's killer. The

447
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: DNA is uploaded to kodas. I want to speak to

448
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: a very special guest joining us. It's Shia LaPoint, the

449
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: gene hunter. Shia, listen to our cut ten Fox twenty

450
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: three Police. We're able to get DNA of Brittany's killer

451
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: at the scene, but that DNA has been sitting through

452
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: the years until now, when long awaited technological advances have

453
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: finally time. Sergeant Shane Toole says. Recently, pera bond nano

454
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: labs use the DNA to come up with a phenotype report.

455
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: They can narrow down to a very good certainty of

456
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: hair color, freckles, ethnicity, and it ultimately led to this

457
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: computer generated picture. Zengman says she now has new hope

458
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: of having a visual possibility. You know, it's opening a

459
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: big door because it's not just going to be some

460
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: theme or some idea that somebody's kind of tempason. It's

461
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: going to be the way the person out to Cheryl LaPoint,

462
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: genetic genealogist, author of The gene Hunter, So you can

463
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: tell me the guys hair color, whether he's freckles, his ethnicity,

464
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: so much about him. But basically, I've got a picture

465
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: of him, I've got his DNA, but I don't know

466
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: who he is. What is that genetic genealogy gives leads

467
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: to law enforcement to help figure out who the perpetrators are.

468
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: We have DNA in this case, Nancy, they had seventy swabs.

469
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: In my experience, when you have multiple samples of DNA,

470
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: which sample do you use to work to find the

471
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: answers to take his DNA? Put it in the sights

472
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: that genealogists use like JED match, family tree, DNA and

473
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: DNA solved. How do you make that decision? Normally, it's

474
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: a collaboration between law enforcements and the labs that process

475
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: the DNA. In that case, that's what was done and

476
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: this was given to Parabond. They processed the DNA, they

477
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: got the result, they have a picture, and that given

478
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: to law enforcement for them to investigate. But just when

479
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: we think we've got the killer, devastating news. Take a

480
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at Channel six KOTVS. They found

481
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: DNA on the scene from Semen that matched off of

482
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: a slight small sample of blood, So the DNA being

483
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: two sources from the same person, logically they thought that

484
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: was the killer. The DNA from the scene was used

485
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: to create a composite sketch of what the suspect might

486
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: look like. We've got protectives say. One of them compared

487
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: it to the DNA from the scene and it was

488
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: a match, And for a brief moment they thought they

489
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: finally had their killer, until they talked to that man

490
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: and others and learned of his whereabouts at the time

491
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: of the murder and determined he was not the killer.

492
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: After all, the whole that I had learnt to live

493
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: with in my heart, it's just opened and it bled,

494
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: and I was just overwhelmed. She and police had penned

495
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: their hopes on that DNA from the scene, but since

496
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: that is no longer the case, they now know nothing

497
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: about who did this. He could be African American, Hispanic, Polynesian, German,

498
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: he could be anyone too, Doctor Maggie Zigman, this is

499
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: Brittany's mother. How can that be? DNA is taken from

500
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,959
Speaker 1: the scene and it's not the killer, I know, I mean,

501
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 1: and that's I think initially why it was those shocked,

502
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: you know, when we went through that whole genetic at

503
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: analysis with Cecymore and that direct hit led to somebody

504
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: who was not our killer. I mean, when I found

505
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: out you know who it was, it sort of made

506
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: But it's just being very confusing. Why was his DNA

507
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: at the scene, That's what I don't understand. Yeah, one

508
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: of Brittany's friends stayed over and with her boyfriend, and

509
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: the semen was found on the chief. So the semen

510
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: at the scene of the rape and the murderer belonged

511
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: to Brittany's friend's boyfriend. Do I understand that? Correctly? Correct? Correct? Well,

512
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 1: Cheryl a point genetic genealogists. Yeah, the science down, but

513
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: the wrong circumstances. What about the DNA taken from Brittany's body?

514
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: My question exactly, Nancy, if you had seventy swabs and

515
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: you have sixty nine more chances to figure out exactly

516
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: who this person is, I have hope. I do have

517
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: hope in this case that other samples can be process

518
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 1: and we can do setting biology. Well. I don't understand

519
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: the hold up, Sharyl. The point I agree with you,

520
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: Sharyl McCollum. What's the problem. Why can't we use the

521
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: other the other swabs, DNA taken from Brittany's body. I'll

522
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: tell you right now, Nancy. They need to go back

523
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,320
Speaker 1: to zero one, and they need to do the rape

524
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 1: kit again, the sheets, the pillow cases for clothing, reexamine

525
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: everything again, get the sheets out and do the end

526
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: that across everything, not just swabbings and cuttings, do the

527
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: whole thing, and then submit the new things as well

528
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 1: as the old swabbings. Every single thing needs to be

529
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: tested in this case. What is the hold up, Maggie.

530
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 1: Why aren't they trying the same process with the DNA

531
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 1: taken from her body, not off her sheet? I know,

532
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: I know, and they dad put shot maybe five or

533
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: six other profiles up in Todas. But for the last

534
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: four years I and Sharyl's aware of it. I have

535
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: been pushing and pushing for them. Are they using the MVAC.

536
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: Are they have? They reanalyzed the rape kit and the detective,

537
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: the left detective who just retired. You know, I was

538
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: saying asking for coldcake investigators, and he was saying, we

539
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: don't need it, said he cast the um way to

540
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 1: do it. So it's not making sense to me. No,

541
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 1: you're saying, use the MVAC on the sheets and re

542
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 1: examine the swabs. But doctor Kendall Crowns the swabs taken

543
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: from her body, from her vagina, from her skin, from

544
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 1: wherever semen was found, that is secured under a slide

545
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: in perpetuity. Why can't we use that for DNA? Why

546
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: do we have to go back to the sheets and

547
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: vacuum them. We've got the DNA, so I mean, if

548
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: you've put it under a slide, you've processed it and

549
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: probably stained it, and you you image the quality of it.

550
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: So that thought why they're going back to get a

551
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: better sample from what they were doing. Is that possible?

552
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 1: Years later? Yes, actually there there was a case in

553
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: Chicago when I worked there that it was a bunch

554
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: of people were murdered at Brown's Chicken and they didn't

555
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: have suspects for years. But what the officers did at

556
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: the time was they packaged some of the food in

557
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 1: the trash, and years later they tested a chicken bone

558
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: and were able to get DNA from that. And then

559
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: they had a presumptive person that was telling friends that

560
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 1: he had been involved in it, and then they brought

561
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: him in did a DNA match and it was like

562
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: over a decade later they matched it from DNA gotten

563
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: gotten from a chicken bone. That's incredible. So it can

564
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: be done, and the DNA is preserved. It's not all

565
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 1: put under a slide. So you know, I hear you,

566
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: doctor Maggie, and I hear you Cheryl McCollum. Yes, I

567
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: wanted all retest, I want the VAT, I want it all.

568
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is the DNA is readily available

569
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: for cheryla Point or someone like cheryla Point on the

570
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 1: genetic the gene hunter to go in and retest it.

571
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: So parabon and tested as well. I mean they tested

572
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: one swab. Parabond could still run on these others and

573
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 1: from illegal standpoint, just Sean Deal speaking, yes, ma'am, I'm

574
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: sorry from illegal sam point. I was just going to

575
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: ask you go ahead, you go ahead, go ahead. No,

576
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: I'm just saying from they can certainly Parabon can run

577
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: those swabs among the genetic population, get a composite from

578
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: that in which that those composites can lead to the

579
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 1: identification in a DNA match. But additially, from a kind

580
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 1: of illegal stand point, you've excluded somebody else that DNA

581
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: was on the scene. So whoever we find next doesn't

582
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: have a reasonable doubt as to who's this other person,

583
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: essensifully as an alibi. So it seems that the information

584
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: is there to be gleaned out by Parabon and investigators.

585
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: She would hope, you know, John Deal, what do you

586
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: have to do put a little fire under their rear

587
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: end to get them to test the other DNA. What

588
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: do you have to do, John Well, I think you

589
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: have to have a podcast and get the word out

590
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: and put some put some pressure on them, because it's doable. Again,

591
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: there's some expense involved that Parabond runs these constantly. It's

592
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: not a you know, overwhelming cast for them. I think

593
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: I hear Cheryl jumping in, is that you or Sharon?

594
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: That it was Shara, And I was going to add

595
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: the fact that cost is a huge factor in these case.

596
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: How much does it cost to perform a test like

597
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,479
Speaker 1: this and why can't it be done at the state

598
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 1: crime lab? Cheryl appoints um Nancy, it can actually be

599
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: done at any lab that does this kind of work. Um, again,

600
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: there's a private lab that does crowdsource funding to work

601
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: these kinds of since wow, authorum, what authorum? Doctor middleman,

602
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: doctor middleman? Yes, yes, yes, what about that possibility, Maggie.

603
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:17,439
Speaker 1: I was able to obtain some funding almost two years ago,

604
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 1: and with the detective that has since retired, it seemed

605
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: like the paperwork was being held up. It wasn't being

606
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: sent to the chief, so I kept going after them,

607
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: talking to them asking when it was to happen. They

608
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 1: kept telling me it was in process, and finally, about

609
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: three months ago I talked to the chief and I

610
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: costomed new detective, Detective Styles, and they said they were

611
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: processing the paperwork, and about two months ago it hadn't

612
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 1: been signed. But about a month ago I was told

613
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: by Detective Styles that the paperwork was done and the

614
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: samples that they had chosen to send off had been

615
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: sent off. You know, I don't know why the delay

616
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: was on the paperwork. It just seemed like it took

617
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: a lot longer than it should have, you know, since

618
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: I got the funding over two years ago. It just

619
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: seemed like a lot of things were stalled with the

620
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: case with the past detective, I don't know how soon

621
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to get results. I had planned to, you know,

622
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 1: give it a month or so before one. I've I've

623
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: been trying to communicate with detective style of asking him

624
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: if he knows how long it'll take, and then I

625
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: tend to also contact the company to just sort of

626
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: follow up on how things are going. So, you know,

627
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that you know, I know it probably depends

628
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: on caseload, and I can see that they're working on

629
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: a lot of cases now and everything, but I'm hoping that,

630
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 1: you know, something gets done, you know, within a six

631
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: month period. I'm also trying to get them to analyze

632
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: all the old evidence with new type of procedures like

633
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,439
Speaker 1: the m back or touch DNA, And I was told

634
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 1: at the argument analyzed some of the old evidence with

635
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: the touch DNA. You ways to pick up DNA that

636
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: we didn't have seventeen years ago. Let me remind everyone

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Speaker 1: there was a six thousand dollars reward. Britney's mother, to

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00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: this day is searching for her daughter's killer. Nine one

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00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: eight seven nine eight eight four seven seven is the

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00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 1: tipline we wait as justice unfalls. Nancy Grace Crime Story,

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00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,