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Speaker 1: Ye. Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, Varieties podcast

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Speaker 1: featuring conversations with industry leaders about the business of media

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Speaker 1: and entertainment. I'm Todd Spangler with Variety Today. Our guest

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Speaker 1: is Stephen Galanis, co founder and CEO of Cameo, which

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Speaker 1: has made a booming business of selling personalized video shout

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Speaker 1: outs from celebrities. The company is just shy of four

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Speaker 1: years old and last year they pulled in gross revenue

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Speaker 1: of a hundred million dollars, four and a half times

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Speaker 1: from the previous year. It's coming up today on Strictly Business.

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Speaker 1: Stay tuned, Welcome back to Strictly Business. Here's Cameo CEO

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Speaker 1: Stephen galanis so seven maybe you can start, uh, just

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Speaker 1: tell us sing your own words. What what is Cameo?

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Speaker 1: What's what's the mission? The mission of Cameo is to

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Speaker 1: create the most personalized and authentic fan connections on Earth today.

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Speaker 1: We primarily do this by selling personalized video shoutouts from

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Speaker 1: tens of thousands of different athletes, actors or celebrities. And

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Speaker 1: that's not the That's not the end of the business model, right,

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Speaker 1: we hope it's just the beginning. We believe we're in

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Speaker 1: the top of the second ending with cameo and the

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Speaker 1: larger vision of cameos to build the marketplace for people's

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Speaker 1: time for x amount of money you as a fan

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Speaker 1: should be able to pay to do. Why activity was

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Speaker 1: the person that you love? And UM right now we're

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Speaker 1: focused primarily on one y activity, the personalized video shout out,

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Speaker 1: the core cameo, which you know, I think we become

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Speaker 1: synonymous with. But again, this is just the first of

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Speaker 1: many things that we hope to delight fans with. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we'll get some more of that later, I think. But

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Speaker 1: so far to date you've delivered how many cameos to date,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's more than a million now. I think

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Speaker 1: we've done one point six million now since we started. UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, last year we crossed the millionth mark at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the summer, which was a really exciting

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Speaker 1: milestone for the company and UH and we ended up

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Speaker 1: doing one point three million just in which was four

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Speaker 1: times more than we've ever done in a year. So

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Speaker 1: most cameos that have ever been done have happened in

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Speaker 1: the last twelve months. UM, and we're excited to just

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Speaker 1: continue to accelerate and create more magical moments for fans

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Speaker 1: around the world. So what what made you hit the

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Speaker 1: hockey stick? Was it the coronavirus pandemic really gave you

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Speaker 1: guys a lift? Or what happened? Cameo was the fastest

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Speaker 1: growing consumer marketplace on Earth coming into so the business

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Speaker 1: had been growing very rapidly. Um. But again, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think very relevant to your listeners. I don't have

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Speaker 1: to tell any of them that all live sports, all

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Speaker 1: live entertainment, all live music shut down for a big

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Speaker 1: part of and um, you know, artists were suddenly finding

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Speaker 1: themselves without any of their normal income streams. They're missing

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Speaker 1: the hell out of their fans. And you know, a

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Speaker 1: CAMEO we provided, UH during a really tough time for them,

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Speaker 1: an opportunity for talent to connect with the people that

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Speaker 1: keep them going, their their die hard fans and UH

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Speaker 1: and and make money at a time where nothing was

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Speaker 1: coming in. And if you think about, you know, or

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Speaker 1: or prior to the number one and number two reasons

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Speaker 1: that talent wouldn't join Cameo were you know, I'm making

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Speaker 1: too much money doing everything else that I do, or

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Speaker 1: I don't have time. So in a year where people

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Speaker 1: suddenly weren't making money, and they had more time than ever.

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Speaker 1: They gave us a shot. And the thing that's been

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Speaker 1: really awesome to see is, you know, everything's come back

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Speaker 1: really at this point except for live music. You know,

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Speaker 1: movies are filming again, televisions filming again, sports, you know,

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Speaker 1: the super Bowl just happened, so everybody's back to work.

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Speaker 1: And the thing that was really cool to see is

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Speaker 1: that they came on. They gave us a shop during

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Speaker 1: a time where nothing else was going on. But now

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Speaker 1: that life has returned to normal, cameos and interacting with

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Speaker 1: their fans this way has become part of their their

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Speaker 1: stack as creators. It's it's become just as important to

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Speaker 1: them as their Instagram, their Twitter. There there anything else

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Speaker 1: well for for some of them. I mean, I mean

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Speaker 1: it takes a special kind of or a special kind

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Speaker 1: of interest in this, right, I mean to open up

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Speaker 1: to two individual fans like that. I mean, there are

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Speaker 1: some people who are unwilling to do this. I'm assuming

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Speaker 1: there's some people unwilling to be on Instagram or Twitter, right,

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Speaker 1: So there are people that don't like interacting with their fans.

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Speaker 1: We haven't found black market for those people in general.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I've learned in the last

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Speaker 1: four years is that talent, no matter if they're musicians

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Speaker 1: or actors or athletes, are primarily driven by three main things. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they want to make more money, they want to become

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Speaker 1: more famous, and they want to become more beloved. So money, fame,

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Speaker 1: love is a framework that we think about. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right if you're If you're somebody who doesn't need

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Speaker 1: more fame or doesn't need more money, or doesn't need

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Speaker 1: more love, Kenyo is not a great place for you,

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Speaker 1: and that's fine, um, But fortunately for us, most people

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Speaker 1: in the entertainment industry are looking to increase all three

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Speaker 1: of those things. And you know, the core value prop

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Speaker 1: for cameo is that in cameo, we're paying the talent

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Speaker 1: to become more famous and more beloved, and we helped

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Speaker 1: them turn their casual fans into super fans by creating

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Speaker 1: magical moments for them. So what is the price range

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Speaker 1: of an individual cameo and who sets that pricing? Is

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Speaker 1: that a negotiation with the talent. The talent have always

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Speaker 1: controlled their price. Is always important to us that nobody

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Speaker 1: ever felt that this wasn't worth their time. So by definition,

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Speaker 1: if they're setting their own price, like they're saying that

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Speaker 1: this is worth my time. As we've matured as a business,

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Speaker 1: we've been able to use our proprietary data to show,

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Speaker 1: you know, talent at different price points. Here's how you're

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Speaker 1: converting at fifty dollars versus seventy five vere. Here's how

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Speaker 1: you're you're doing in comparison to other people who are similar,

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Speaker 1: maybe other characters on the same show, or you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're the star quarterback in one city, here's how

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Speaker 1: the star quarterbacks in another city is doing. So in

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Speaker 1: many ways, like our marketplace is starting to mature, and

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Speaker 1: it's it's almost becoming like a zillo, right, It's almost

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Speaker 1: becoming a place where people are coming on and looking

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Speaker 1: for relative value. So they'll they'll they'll look for a

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Speaker 1: group of people and they'll find the one that they

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Speaker 1: perceive has the best value as opposed to you're just

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Speaker 1: going for one person. So like I'm worth more in

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Speaker 1: Lindsay Lohan or something, a really good example. I'm a

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Speaker 1: I'm a die hard Chicago Bears fan and two of

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Speaker 1: my favorite all time Bears players or Lance Spriggs and

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Speaker 1: Brian or Lacker, they were almost equal players. They're both

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Speaker 1: you know, star star linebackers for the Bears one War

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Speaker 1: number fifty five, one War War number fifty four. Lance

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Speaker 1: Spriggs is fifty five dollars. Brian or Lacker is five dollars.

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Speaker 1: You must really love Brian er Lacker to justify thing

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Speaker 1: ten x uh, you know, for his for his rate.

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Speaker 1: But but that just gives you a sense of of

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Speaker 1: how our consumers shop and what the psychology is behind it. Interesting. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So this range is from maybe five to ten bucks

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Speaker 1: for some people, all the way up to couple of

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Speaker 1: thousand or what is the range exactly? Yeah, the at

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Speaker 1: the low and people are free, I mean there there

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Speaker 1: are some people on cameo that are zero dollars um.

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Speaker 1: At the high end, the most expensive can be you know,

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Speaker 1: multiple thousands of dollars um. Today, the average price of

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Speaker 1: cameos is seventy dollars. So it's actually a lot more

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Speaker 1: affordable than most people would expect. And that's and that

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Speaker 1: increased last year by about I think yeah, And and frankly,

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Speaker 1: we've seen it increase, you know, year over year by

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Speaker 1: a similar range. Since we started in seventeen, which is

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Speaker 1: our first year in business. The average price was twenty bucks,

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Speaker 1: it was forty bucks and eighteen, it was sixty bucks

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Speaker 1: in nineteen and you know, in an increase to seventy

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Speaker 1: bucks last year. Part of it, again, this was a

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Speaker 1: completely new marketplace, so nobody knew what something like this

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Speaker 1: should cost. When we launched, we were selling videos for

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Speaker 1: one dollar or two dollars, three dollars, and at that price,

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Speaker 1: people are saying, this was the best dollar I've I've

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Speaker 1: ever spent, and this was the best two dollars I've

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Speaker 1: ever spent. And then as you know, Cameo has become

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Speaker 1: you know, more widely known, and you know, more talent

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Speaker 1: er on it of a higher caliber that the price

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Speaker 1: has naturally gone up because consumers understand what they're getting

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Speaker 1: and have a good idea of what the value is.

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Speaker 1: Fees to be some other things that they could get

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Speaker 1: from talent. Okay, so how do you look at the

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Speaker 1: competitive landscape here, Stephen? I mean, there's nobody that quite

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Speaker 1: does what you do. But I mean, are you competing

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Speaker 1: with you know, Twitter, Instagram? Are you competing with only fans?

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of joking about that, but how do you

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Speaker 1: see other people responding to you know, your audio marketplace.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that um I've been thinking a

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Speaker 1: lot about over the past four years is this widening

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Speaker 1: gap that's happening in all forms of the entertainment world

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Speaker 1: between fame and monetization. So today there are more famous

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Speaker 1: people on Earth now than there ever had been because

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Speaker 1: of social media, because Netflix is putting twenty billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in content a year. And you know, if we had

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Speaker 1: had this interview a week a year ago, none of

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Speaker 1: us would have known who Carol Baskin is andresotic and

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Speaker 1: now you know, everyone on Earth knows who they are. Right.

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Speaker 1: There's Carol bask and was like the sixth most popular

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Speaker 1: talent on Cameo last year, right, Right, So again we

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Speaker 1: have tens of thousands of talent and a year ago

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Speaker 1: nobody knew who she was, and today you know, she's

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Speaker 1: a top ten person in the world on Cameo. Right.

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Speaker 1: So the whole point is that the amount of fame

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Speaker 1: on Earth is exponentially increasing, but the business model supporting

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Speaker 1: fame is growing linearly. So what's happening is for the

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Speaker 1: average talent, there's a widening gap between fame and monetization,

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Speaker 1: and the underlying business models are only working for the

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Speaker 1: top like you know, point zero zero one percent, you know,

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Speaker 1: the true A plus listers. So if you look at YouTube,

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Speaker 1: the top three percent of creators make percent of all

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Speaker 1: the ad revenue. There's people with tens of millions of

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Speaker 1: followers who you know, your kids love or your nephews

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Speaker 1: love that, uh that you know you've never heard of,

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Speaker 1: but like, they make no money on YouTube. Essentially they

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Speaker 1: have to monetize otherwise. Uh. If you're talking about sports,

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Speaker 1: the top two percent athletes make of all the endorsement

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Speaker 1: the new And there was a documentary ESPN did a

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Speaker 1: couple of years called Broke that said of NFL players

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Speaker 1: go broke five years after playing their last game. For Spotify,

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Speaker 1: the top one percent of artists make of all the

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Speaker 1: streaming revenues. So artists are having to sell merch, they're

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Speaker 1: having to do meeting greets when they're touring, they're having

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Speaker 1: to go on tour um and you know, in in

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Speaker 1: the Screen Actors Guild in the best of times, one

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Speaker 1: of the oldest memes of Hollywood is the outer work

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Speaker 1: actress or actor who's bartending or waiting tables between getting

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Speaker 1: casted in something. But those people can now go on YouTube,

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Speaker 1: they can go on TikTok, and you know, those that

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Speaker 1: have great talent can actually go and find ways to

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Speaker 1: blow up without being cast in anything. So when you're

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Speaker 1: looking at this, there's now fifty million people on Earth

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Speaker 1: who consider themselves creators and the pipeline is big. One

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Speaker 1: third of American teens hope to be an influencer when

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Speaker 1: they grow up. So there's continued stress on this. And

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Speaker 1: when you look at the legacy business models and music

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Speaker 1: and entertainment, the solution here is not coming from the

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Speaker 1: record labels. It's not coming from the movie studios. Everybody

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Speaker 1: is under siege. You think about sports um, you know

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Speaker 1: ESPN struggling because people are cutting cable and when you

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Speaker 1: when you think about all these things, the only solution

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Speaker 1: to fixing this long term, a world where there's more

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Speaker 1: famous people, people are more famous than they are rich,

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Speaker 1: is by going direct to fan for monetization. So I

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Speaker 1: think Cameo is the leader in direct to fan monetization. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this space is white hot, it's a huge space. There

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Speaker 1: will be many big companies Cameo included, that are built

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Speaker 1: out of this um. And you know, you you talked

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Speaker 1: about business like only fans that's helping go direct to

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Speaker 1: fan monetization for the adult sector. Uh, there's businesses like

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Speaker 1: Patreon who are doing direct to fan monetization for artists

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Speaker 1: and podcasters. Sub Stack is doing this for journalists. Right,

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Speaker 1: So there's a variety of companies in this space and

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Speaker 1: it's extreme, really interesting and we've never looked at Twitter

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Speaker 1: or Instagram or snapchatter or clubhouse or anything is competitive

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Speaker 1: because ultimately talent get famous on those platforms and it's

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Speaker 1: on Cameo that they come to get paid to become

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Speaker 1: more famous and more beloved. So in many ways, the

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Speaker 1: other platforms are the farm system for Cameo. And you

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Speaker 1: know we you know we benefit from a system where

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Speaker 1: more people, more famous people are being created every day.

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Speaker 1: So what share? What is the revenue share that you

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Speaker 1: provide with the talent? Does it depend? Is it arrange?

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Speaker 1: Every single talent is on the exact same financial split.

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Speaker 1: It's a split talents way. Um, every person is on

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Speaker 1: the same deal. We've never deviated for anybody. Um, we've

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Speaker 1: never given a minimum guarantee, we've never paid anyone to

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Speaker 1: come on Cameo, and we've never given equity for anyone

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Speaker 1: to join the platform. So everyone's on the same deal.

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Speaker 1: And we think that's uh, that was a huge part

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Speaker 1: of building a fair ubiquitous platform. Oah uh, So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about who are the successful people on cameo really

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Speaker 1: making making a mid here, you know, and I've got

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Speaker 1: the top ten list of top performing talent of number

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Speaker 1: one Brian Brian bowmen Garten, sorry, Brian bowen Gardner, who

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Speaker 1: was Kevin from the Office, right, Yeah, then you've bred Farve,

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Speaker 1: uh Snoop Doug, Gilbert Gottfried, Chris Harrison of The Bachelor, um,

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Speaker 1: and the aforementioned Carol Baskin from Tiger King. What's common

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Speaker 1: among the people who perform really well? Besides you know,

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Speaker 1: they're hard working and put in put in the elbow grease. Here.

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Speaker 1: The the thing that characterizes talent who are really successful

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Speaker 1: on cameo, I think is a couple of things. Number One,

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Speaker 1: they have to have a big, authentic personality. So if

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Speaker 1: you're looking at someone like uh, you know, Big Ed

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Speaker 1: from ninety Day Fiance, who is one of the top

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Speaker 1: ten cameo talent this year, or um, someone like Gilbert

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Speaker 1: God for your Snoop dog like, these are big personalities

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Speaker 1: who um you know, tend to be really funny. We

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Speaker 1: find that people that are funny tend to be the

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Speaker 1: best people who are great at ad living um. And

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Speaker 1: the thing that's interesting, if you look at our top

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Speaker 1: ten most you know booked people on cameo, it is

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Speaker 1: not a representation of the top ten most famous people

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Speaker 1: on cameo. So it's interesting. Just like Snapchat, you know,

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Speaker 1: made DJ Khalid kind of this huge star, but you know,

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Speaker 1: he's not the biggest person in the world on Instagram

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Speaker 1: or on Instagram. You know, Kylie Jenner and and Kim

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Speaker 1: Kardashian are like the biggest people on earth, but they're

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Speaker 1: not the biggest people on Twitter. That was Ashton Kutcher

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Speaker 1: and shocked back in the day. Every platform has their

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Speaker 1: stars that are become emerge and breakout stars. They're all famous,

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Speaker 1: but it takes something special, uh, you know, for them

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Speaker 1: and and and for us, it's people who are authentic,

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Speaker 1: people who really love their fans, people who make pretty

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Speaker 1: funny videos. That that's that tends to be what we

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Speaker 1: found makes people most successful in CanYa. Okay, so you

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Speaker 1: probably have some whales that you'd like to get here, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Taylor Swift, I don't know um, Frank Ocean

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Speaker 1: people like that. Right, There are five million people on

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Speaker 1: Earth we think can be on this, and we have

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Speaker 1: tens of thousands, so you know, we we could spend

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Speaker 1: like the entire UH podcast talking about all the people

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Speaker 1: we want to get on Cameo, and it's really not

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Speaker 1: even that we want them. We want to make our

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Speaker 1: fans happy. So we know every day who people are

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Speaker 1: searching for, and our team, you know, has been working

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Speaker 1: hard over the last four years to take a look

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Speaker 1: at the aggregate search results and get people on that

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Speaker 1: UM that the fans are demanding. And that's that's that's

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Speaker 1: why we exist to to do, you know, to get

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Speaker 1: these people on the platform so we can make people smile,

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Speaker 1: laugh and cry. We need to take a quick break,

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Speaker 1: but we'll have more with Stephen right after this, and

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Speaker 1: we're back with CAMEO CEO Stephen Glennis, let's back up

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Speaker 1: a second. Let's go back if if you will, Stephen

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Speaker 1: and give us kind of the short version of the

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Speaker 1: origin story. How did this start? So? UM? My co

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Speaker 1: founder Martin Uh, someone I've known for a while. We

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Speaker 1: were producing movies and television shows together and UH and

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Speaker 1: then I went to go work at LinkedIn um he

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Speaker 1: went to go and be an NFL agent. We didn't

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Speaker 1: see each other for a couple of years. He then

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Speaker 1: flew into Chicago for my grandmother's funeral, and as I

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Speaker 1: was driving him back to the airport, he was telling

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Speaker 1: me about a problem he was having as an NFL

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Speaker 1: agent who was wrapping one person who was in a

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Speaker 1: superstar the player his name was Cassius Marsha the Seattle Seahawks.

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Speaker 1: Martin had high conviction because the guy had a big personality,

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Speaker 1: that maybe this guy could become the next rock, you know,

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Speaker 1: Let's get him in television shows, Let's get him in movies,

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Speaker 1: Let's get him endorsement deals. And I had never heard

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Speaker 1: of him, and I asked Martin, like, show me who

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Speaker 1: he is. And he pulled out his phone and he

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Speaker 1: played a video that today we called the first Cameo.

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Speaker 1: And in the video, Martin had Cassius marsh congratulate his

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Speaker 1: good buddy Brandon, who at the time was working at

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Speaker 1: Nike with a lot of big famous athletes, but loves

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Speaker 1: the Seattle Seahawks. And he congratulated Brandon. I'm becoming a father,

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Speaker 1: so he hits play. Cassius is not wearing a shirt.

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Speaker 1: He's in southern California. He's all tatted up, he's got

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Speaker 1: a flat brimmed tat on and he's making the video

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Speaker 1: while driving and he goes, you know, he goes, hey, Brandon,

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Speaker 1: it's Cassius marsh from the Seahawks. Heard about your son, Maverick. Congratulations.

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Speaker 1: If he gets your athletic ability, he'll be playing for

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Speaker 1: the Seahawks one day. Go Hawks. It was like a

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Speaker 1: five you know, I have six second video, but it

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Speaker 1: was so striking and immediately as he showed it to me,

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Speaker 1: the lightbulb moment, you know, hit and and I was like, Martin,

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Speaker 1: we need we need to sell that, Like I feel

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Speaker 1: like people would want that. So immediately we had pretty

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Speaker 1: high conviction that people would want this if talent were

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Speaker 1: willing to do them at scale. And that was the

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Speaker 1: big question. And as we started to talk to you know,

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Speaker 1: pro athletes we knew, or actors we knew, we kept

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Speaker 1: hearing that like, oh, yeah, I did one of these

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Speaker 1: for my agents. You know son's bar Mitzvah right, or uh,

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Speaker 1: you know I did one of these for to pump

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Speaker 1: up my the football team in my old high school.

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Speaker 1: So we are for people who were kind of in

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Speaker 1: the inner circle. And we really felt like if we

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Speaker 1: created a marketplace that was lifting the red velvet rope

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Speaker 1: and and bringing people in, talent would be able to

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Speaker 1: engage with way more of their fans than they do today.

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Speaker 1: Because you know, in many worlds, like in this world

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Speaker 1: of social uh, everyone wants to engage with their fans more,

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Speaker 1: but you know, it can be really dangerous letting you know,

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Speaker 1: people into closely. So this gave talent the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: come and, you know, and delight their fans on their

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Speaker 1: own schedule. And for the fans side, I mean, you've

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Speaker 1: seen many famous people, I'm sure with your job, and

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Speaker 1: how often are you in a restaurant and you see

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Speaker 1: someone you really admire and you're like nervous to go

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Speaker 1: up to them, right and and if you do, they

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Speaker 1: might be mean to you. So like this actually or

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Speaker 1: or when you do talk to them, a lot of

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Speaker 1: times people get starstruck, they fumble their words. So this actually,

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Speaker 1: on the fans side, is a more safe and enjoyable

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Speaker 1: way to interact with the talent because that nervous factors

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Speaker 1: out as well. So we just found it worked really

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Speaker 1: well on both sides. That's an interesting psychological sort of

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Speaker 1: human nature porn. UM. I have to ask you this, right.

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Speaker 1: You recently had a story Lindsay Lohan asked UH, a

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Speaker 1: fan who had ordered a video from her to take

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Speaker 1: it down, UM from social media? How does that happen?

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Speaker 1: And UM, you know, is this just a UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: an attribute of UM you know, people getting used to

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Speaker 1: this whole concept or I mean again, we've done one

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Speaker 1: point six million cameos since we started. I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't even think I could count on one hand the

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Speaker 1: amount of times that we've you know, we've seen that

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Speaker 1: typically it's not because the video is inappropriate, like in

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Speaker 1: this case, it wasn't. UM. I I believe in this case,

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Speaker 1: Lindsay was giving this this girl motivation to come out

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Speaker 1: to her parents. UM. And you know, then she made

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Speaker 1: a TikTok compilation of it, and you know, and it

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Speaker 1: went viral. It was a great moment. And I'm sure

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Speaker 1: in Lindsay's mind this was something that was probably like

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Speaker 1: best for the person that it was intended to, and

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Speaker 1: and and people in the immediate factor. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it went on TikTok, it went hyper viral, which look

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Speaker 1: percent of the time, like the talent love when the

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Speaker 1: videos go viral, UM, and and the fans love it too.

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Speaker 1: So this was just a case where I think she

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Speaker 1: felt this was like a very personal moment and UM

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Speaker 1: and it went out. But this has not been a

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Speaker 1: problem at any type of scale for us. Okay, UM,

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Speaker 1: now you you mentioned, uh were you alluded to some

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Speaker 1: newer products that are coming in. You've got something called

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Speaker 1: Cameo Direct let's you chat directly with UM your favorite celebrity. UM.

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Speaker 1: And you've got Cameo Live, which is like a fifteen

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Speaker 1: minute zoom call. What what's been the traction there and

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Speaker 1: what do you need UM to do on that front

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Speaker 1: too to get that into you know, the mainstream product pipeline. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so both of these were new products that we launched

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Speaker 1: last year. UM. You know, messaging is something that we

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Speaker 1: think is really important to the future of Cameo when

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Speaker 1: you look at other social networks, whether it's Instagram or

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Speaker 1: Twitter or LinkedIn, where I used to work, UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: in mail with such a big part of LinkedIn, So

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Speaker 1: in many ways, UH, Cameo Director is kind of like

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Speaker 1: in mail for celebrities, you can shoot a direct message

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Speaker 1: to them and on Instagram or Twitter. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you get a lot of d MS yourself,

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Speaker 1: and if you don't follow the person, it goes into

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Speaker 1: a different box than a lot of times you don't

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Speaker 1: even see those d M s. The cool thing about

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Speaker 1: Cameo d M is that you know, you can pay

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Speaker 1: and get into their inbox and they actually see it.

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Speaker 1: So in many ways, this is taking a concept that

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Speaker 1: we learned that payment is a necessary friction which enables fulfillment,

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Speaker 1: and we've just taken it to the next level in

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Speaker 1: the d M experience on Cameo Live. This was you know,

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Speaker 1: as I mentioned at the beginning, we're building the marketplace

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Speaker 1: where for X amount of money you can do why

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Speaker 1: activity was the person This was the second why activity

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Speaker 1: that we I thought was interesting. People have always asked me, Stephen,

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Speaker 1: are one day will I be able to meet the

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Speaker 1: stars in real life? Like would you ever do you know?

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Speaker 1: Real life bookings. It's something we've thought about from the beginning,

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Speaker 1: but it's logistically difficult because of COVID. Everybody's using Zoom.

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Speaker 1: I think zooms daily active users went from like ten

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Speaker 1: million to million basically overnight. And you know, I know,

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Speaker 1: if I had told my mom, you know, to get

426
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: on a Zoom call. Uh, twelve months ago, she would

427
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: have known what I was talking about. But now today

428
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: it's become so easy. But and it's the same for

429
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 1: talent to write, like a lot of talent had never

430
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: been on zoom. Uh. They started doing it, and they

431
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: found that this was a great way to interact with

432
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: their fans. It allowed us to test out synchronous video

433
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 1: chat for the first time and uh, and we took

434
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: a lot of learnings there and you know, now we're

435
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: starting to think about different formats for synchronous So that

436
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: was a big experiment. People enjoyed it a lot. And

437
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: at this point, we're taking the learnings that we made

438
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: from doing it in a low code way over Zoom

439
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: and we're actually building it into the core product. So

440
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: you know, I would I would really watch our Cando

441
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: Calls product, which would be coming out later this year. Yeah.

442
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: And as opposed to in person meet and greets, Uh,

443
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: it's a lot more scalable, right, and it um, you know,

444
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 1: more cost efficient. Yeah. I'll tell you a story. Um.

445
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: One of my early mentors is a guy named Matt Maloney,

446
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: who is the CEO of grub Hub. And one thing

447
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: Matt told me in the early days of Cameo was, Stephen,

448
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: I built the largest marketplace business that's ever come out

449
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 1: of Chicago, my hometown, his hometown. Uh. And you you've

450
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: built a business that has the opportunity to be way

451
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: bigger than the one that I built. Because you're selling bits.

452
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: I'm selling atoms. Now what does that mean? Nobody in

453
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: Chicago cares about how many restaurants are in on grub

454
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: hub in l A because you need to build localized

455
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 1: supply and match with localized demand. But on Cameo, a

456
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: talent could be in Mumbai and make and make a

457
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: video for someone in Miami. And because we've removed location

458
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 1: is a barrier, the amount of connections that we're able

459
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: to facilitate every day has gone up drastically. UM. So

460
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: that's why I think, like, well, in person meetups would

461
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: be really cool that anything synchronous video is way more

462
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: scalable because don't actually have to think about the logistics

463
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: of where people are. Yeah, or as you mentioned before,

464
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: security issues, UM, things like that. UM. One other new

465
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: area of business that you recently did. UM, you did

466
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: your first partnership with a movie studio. You worked with

467
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: MGMs American International Pictures and a collaboration for breaking news

468
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: in Yuberg County. Um, and so what how did this

469
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: come together? And so essentially correct me if I'm wrong here,

470
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: but Alison Janny and Bridget Everett are giving special Valentine's

471
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: Day messages for ten bucks each and the proceeds are

472
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: benefiting the Trevor Project and COVID nineteen relief. Um, how

473
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: did this come about? And where do you see this

474
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: type of thing going? Yeah, it's an every one. We're

475
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: really excited about it. For the last three years, we've

476
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 1: had numerous studios come to us to talk about, Hey,

477
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,239
Speaker 1: here's a way that we think we can work with

478
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: Canyo too, you know, build fomo and excitement around to launch. UM.

479
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: You know, for a long time we found ourselves getting

480
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 1: in these conversations and then nothing would end up happening.

481
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: But I think that from the studio's perspective, movie theaters

482
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: are still closed. Uh, you're you're You're having a lot

483
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: of these films released direct to consumer now, and everybody's

484
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: looking for ways to to um, you know, to stand

485
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: out from the crowd and the advertising budgets of of

486
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: all the main studios have been cut in a big way.

487
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, at the Super Bowl, one thing

488
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: that stood out. I don't think I saw a single

489
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: preview for a movie that was coming out, which like

490
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: that's probably a third of the commercials out of normal

491
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. And there were there were a couple, but yeah,

492
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: not a lot. But I'm saying like pales in comparison

493
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: to what you know, we normally would see. So from

494
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: from that side, UM, this was a thing that materialized

495
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: through hardware gone MGM side and on our partnership side,

496
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: we're really excited to test this and so far the

497
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: results have been really exciting on both sides. UM, and

498
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully this is something we do more over

499
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: and over again. I think it's I think in two

500
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: years or a year from now, every single movie, every

501
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: show coming out, we'll have a camera strategy. This is

502
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: you know, in many ways, we're piloting it out and

503
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: we're grateful that MGM gave us the opportunity to to

504
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: help be part of such an exciting new project. Yeah interesting, Okay, Uh,

505
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: just a couple other things while we while we have ton,

506
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: you brought on a whole bunch of new senior executives. UM.

507
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: In the last couple of months, UM Rob Post who

508
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: was previously at Quimby. UM he was CTO there, he's

509
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: now your CTO. UM. You have a CFO dep Swarts

510
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: who was with Bustle previously. UM melst Einbach who was

511
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: previously at McDonald's. She's your chief people officer. And your

512
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: CEO Brian Frank who you do I think from Lincoln

513
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: what UM? I mean this is this is the next

514
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: stage of the company. Then building out that that c

515
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: suite for you absolutely, UM. Like our our goal is

516
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: to become one of the most important companies in entertainment

517
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: and we think that we're building something great that will

518
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: be an enduring, last thing publicly traded company. And you know,

519
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: the next phase for Cameo was finding people who have

520
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: been there, done that. UM. We're all first time founders

521
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: and most of the founding executive team. Every single day

522
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: we hired more people that everyone was in the biggest

523
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: job they've ever had. UM. We've you know, in dead

524
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: we found a CFO that can take a public at

525
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: in mal we have UM a chief people officer who's

526
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: operated at one of the largest employers in the world.

527
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: Um in our CEO, Brian Frank We've found someone uh

528
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: join LinkedIn as the second person in revenue when they're

529
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: doing seventy million in business and was there until they

530
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: were doing six billion and sold to Microsoft. And in

531
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: rob Post. We think we have one of the best

532
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: uh you know, technologists in the world helping lead our

533
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: our efforts to just build an incredible platform. So we

534
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: love the new leaders that we've had. Uh They've messed

535
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: seamlessly so far with the existing people that have been

536
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: the reason why we've gotten there, and they've been additive

537
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: to our culture. So we're excited on that. It's my

538
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: job to make sure the CEO that I'm the worst

539
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: person in the executive room. So I'm trying to, you know,

540
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: surround myself with people that I can learn from and

541
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: that know their subject area way better than I do.

542
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: And that's really the way that I CEO can continue

543
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: to grow quicker than the pace of the business, which

544
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: has been really fast. Now now or is your company

545
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: still working remotely given pandemic conditions, Not only are we

546
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: working remotely today, but we will be working remotely forever.

547
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: We actually made the decision this summer to become a

548
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: fully distributed company. Historically, we were headquartered in Chicago with

549
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: our hey, we had people in London, with people in Melbourne, Australia.

550
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: We have people in Argentina. Uh. Since mid June, we've

551
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: decided that we're gonna get rid of all of our offices.

552
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: We do not care where people live anymore, as long

553
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: as they have internet access. And and you know, this

554
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: is an exciting new face for us. Those executives that

555
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: you just mentioned, they're not in l A and Chicago.

556
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: Rob posts in Tampa Bay Depth Shorts is in New

557
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: York City. Uh, the Bran Frank is in the Bay Area.

558
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: So you know, it's allowed us to hunt and find

559
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: the best people no matter where they are. And in fact,

560
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:50,959
Speaker 1: today twenty six are are are are employees living states.

561
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: So this is a huge difference from before everyone was

562
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: in Illinois California. Uh. You mentioned um in I P

563
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: have you have a time learn on that? Look, we um,

564
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: that's our goal, right. I think like as a as

565
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: a CEO, it's my job at some point to exit

566
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: the business, either through I P O or acquisition. Um.

567
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: You know that's my number one fiduciary responsibility to my

568
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: employees to the talent on the platform to all the

569
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: people who invested in US and had faith in us. UM.

570
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: So you know, for me, that's been a dream, a

571
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: lifelong dream to run a publicly traded company. We'll do

572
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: when we're ready. We're not going to do it before

573
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: we're ready. Um. And and I think, um, you know,

574
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: we have a very ambitious roadmap. We've got a lot

575
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: of things to accomplish before we're ready for it. Uh.

576
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: And frankly, a lot of team building right the infrastructure

577
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: and accounting and legal and finance, like, there's just a

578
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: lot of things that a lot of bustle that needs

579
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: to be built, and frankly, a lot more hiring we

580
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: need to do to be able to function as a

581
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: publicly traded company. Um. But look, we're well on our way.

582
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: And if we continue to execute the way we have

583
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: in the past four years for the next four I

584
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: think that, um, you know, this would be a company

585
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: that is beloved in the public markets. So now you're

586
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: you're privately held, But are you break even? Are you

587
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: cash flow positive at this point? Are you close to

588
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: that or what? It's not a goal for us to

589
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: be cash flow positive or break even right now. We're

590
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: you know, seeing huge growth opportunities ahead of us who

591
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: were investing, you know, very aggressively into growth. Last year,

592
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: we grew four and a half ax from the year

593
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: before UM, and you know, we we believe that there's

594
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: great opportunities not just in the US but all around

595
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: the world to continue to put the pedal to the

596
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: metal and grow faster. So that's what we're focused on

597
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: right now. So what areas are you investing and are

598
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: you is it products? Is it engineering, is it support, marketing? Everything? Yeah? Four,

599
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: I would say four man things. Number one, we're constantly

600
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: investing in our team that acquires and then works with

601
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: the talent on the platform. So talent acquisition is a

602
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: really big part, and we're scaling that game up, especially

603
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: with more vertical specialists now. So we're not just that

604
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: even a year ago, people were just hired and they

605
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: might one day talk to an athlete, the next day,

606
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: talked to an actor, the next day, talk to a musician.

607
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: We're starting to hire people that are experts in different fields,

608
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: that have really good networks, and and we're excited to

609
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: build that team out. UM, you know, hiring all across

610
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: the board. We're we're doing right now. We're investing deeply

611
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: in research and development, you know, with rob post Um.

612
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: You know, we think we can unlock some unbelievable engineers

613
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: that have worked on video at scale and money other platforms. UM.

614
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: And then you know, I would say the last thing

615
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: is marketing is something we haven't really done at all.

616
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: We've spent very little money on marketing, but now we're

617
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: we're really looking to start telling more people our story.

618
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: Only four percent of the US population in our core

619
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: demographic know who we are today, so thank you for

620
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 1: helping tell our story. UM, But it's still early days.

621
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,959
Speaker 1: Right on the on the talent manager side of things,

622
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: are you uh finding it? Are you hiring people from

623
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: traditional Hollywood agencies? We've hired people from a variety of backgrounds,

624
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: some from traditional Hollywood backgrounds, but many from B two

625
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: B sas companies like in tech and frankly, we've also

626
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 1: hired a lot of people that we're doing other things

627
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: but are just really passionate about pop culture celebrities and

628
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: had never worked with talent before. Especially a lot of

629
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: the people we hired in Chicago, which is where the

630
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: majority of our employees are, you know, C. A and

631
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: W m E and you know Sony and MGM. They

632
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: don't have like big offices. They're super rare if you're

633
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: working with talent in a city like Chicago. But there's

634
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: a lot of demand to do it, and we found

635
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: just hiring smart people that are really passionate about what

636
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: they're doing. Um, it didn't matter so much the experience,

637
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: especially in the early days, right. Uh, well, Stephen, were

638
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 1: almost at a time. My last question for you is, uh,

639
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Speaker 1: what cameos have you personally ordered and had event some

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Speaker 1: of your favorite? Uh favorite ones? I've ordered hundreds over

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Speaker 1: the last few years. But the best one I did

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Speaker 1: recently it was a cameo I got for my mom

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Speaker 1: for her birthday from Kenny Gime, favorite musician. He played

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Speaker 1: a song for her. He talked about how, you know,

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Speaker 1: special of a woman she must have been to to

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Speaker 1: create a son that created cameo. That's helped people become, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, so much closer to the people that they

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Speaker 1: loved the most. So that was special And my mom

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Speaker 1: posted it on Facebook. It got six ninety two likes,

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Speaker 1: which I think is the most like she's ever got.

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Speaker 1: So she was with that. That is that is awesome.

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Speaker 1: Stephen Glanis. Thank you so much, great to have you

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Speaker 1: on the podcast, Thanks for having me, thanks for listening.

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Speaker 1: Be sure to tune in next week for another episode

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Speaker 1: of Strictly Business, and feel free to leave us a

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Speaker 1: review on ample podcasts We love to hear h