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Speaker 1: Before we start, I want to let you know that

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Speaker 1: this episode contains descriptions of alleged sexual abuse.

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Speaker 2: In the beginning was the word, and the word was

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Speaker 2: with God, and in silence. The Word of God is pronounced.

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Speaker 1: Elli Anastasia Damidova was a noun with the Missionaries of

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Speaker 1: Charity until twenty fourteen. He now uses he him pronounce

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Speaker 1: and mostly goes by the name Eli, but he asked

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Speaker 1: that we refer to him as Eli Anastasia. Anastasia is

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Speaker 1: the name he used when he was a sister in

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Speaker 1: the MCS, So that's what we'll do. Ellie Anastasia always

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Speaker 1: loved silence. Praying in silence brought him closer to God.

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Speaker 1: He's fond of a quote from Mother Teresa. In the

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Speaker 1: silence God speaks.

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Speaker 2: It is not the empty silence, silence filled with the presence,

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Speaker 2: presence something which is greater than human being done, universe

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Speaker 2: than anything else, the presence of something which is untouchable.

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Speaker 1: But now silence is painful. Since he left the Missionaries

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Speaker 1: of Charity in twenty fourteen, he avoids it. He leaves

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Speaker 1: a television on when he's at home, especially at.

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Speaker 3: Night, to make some kind of noise.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think silence is.

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Speaker 3: Hard because it comes back. The murmur is back.

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Speaker 2: Maybe was probably night is connected to the time when

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Speaker 2: everything was happening. This anxiety again comes and the memories

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Speaker 2: comes back. Never Never, I can sleep in silence.

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Speaker 1: From Rococo Punch and iHeart Radio. This is the Turning

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Speaker 1: I America Lance Part seven Silence. All right, I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna press record on my end. Let's see, so your

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Speaker 1: headphones are plugged in, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When we video chat, Elli Anastasia smiles a lot and

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Speaker 1: this earnest almost shy way testing testing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what better.

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Speaker 1: Ellie Anastasia is thirty three years old. He's originally from Russia.

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Speaker 1: There's the sweetness that radiates from him when he talks.

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Speaker 1: He always wears a cap on his head with all

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Speaker 1: his hair tucked into it. Today, Ellie Anastasia calls himself

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Speaker 1: a human rights defender. He advocates for the LGBTQ community

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Speaker 1: and abuse victims. Back in twenty fourteen, he was twenty

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Speaker 1: six years old. He was a pastulent in the Missionaries

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Speaker 1: of Charity. He was stationed in West Bengal, India and

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Speaker 1: a city called Chinsura. It's a small city by Indian

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Speaker 1: standards about three hundred thousand people. Even though they were

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Speaker 1: in a city, ali Anastasia says, the empty house felt isolated,

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Speaker 1: like they were living off the map. There weren't many

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Speaker 1: Christians in the area, and without cars, they had to

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Speaker 1: walk two hours to get to a church for Mass

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Speaker 1: on Sunday.

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Speaker 2: No television nor radio, no news in general in the city.

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Speaker 2: We never knew what is happening. It's very hot. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: it is horrible raining, a lot of monkeys which are

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Speaker 2: destroying everything around you.

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Speaker 1: Despite the isolation and the monkeys that tore up the

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Speaker 1: MC's garden, ali Anastasia loved being there.

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Speaker 2: I was so happy that my aim was just I

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Speaker 2: want to serve God. I love God. I just want

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Speaker 2: to live a proper life and to pray and to

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Speaker 2: love the poor and so on.

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Speaker 1: He asked his fellow sisters how to say words in

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Speaker 1: Bengali so he could talk to the people who lived there.

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Speaker 2: Please teach me how to tell him God loves you.

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Speaker 2: I have to tell people about love. I was just

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Speaker 2: a happy person.

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Speaker 1: He remembers. The first time he met his mistress, the

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Speaker 1: nun in charge of his spiritual formation and day to

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Speaker 1: day life. The mistress was also the superior of the house.

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Speaker 1: Usually those positions are separate, so it was like the

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Speaker 1: mistress was both Eli Anastasia's boss and his boss's boss.

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Speaker 2: Something can He was just frightening me. Maybe it was

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Speaker 2: just psychological because my vocations dependent on their his person

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Speaker 2: or I don't know.

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Speaker 1: But Eli Anastasia told me. After he'd been there a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks, the mistress, who were not naming, started

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Speaker 1: showing him special attention. She ate meals with him, just

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Speaker 1: the two of them. She talked about mutual acquaintances, She

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Speaker 1: empathized with challenges Eli Anastasia had faced in the past.

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Speaker 1: In one conversation, his mistress said she'd received a message

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Speaker 1: from the Virgin Mary that Mary told her to become

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Speaker 1: Eli Anastasia's spiritual mother. His personal mentor and guide. Ellie

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Speaker 1: Anastasia showed us a note he says he received from

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Speaker 1: his mistress. It says, my dear little spiritual child, thank

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Speaker 1: you for accepting me as your spiritual mum, and then

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Speaker 1: mourns this note is only for you. All of this

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Speaker 1: seemed strange given MC rules against close friendship and special attention,

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Speaker 1: but Ellie Anastasia didn't question it. It wasn't his place

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Speaker 1: to question. Then one evening they were in the sacristy,

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Speaker 1: a room off the chapel. They were alone. Ellie Anastasia's

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Speaker 1: mistress asked him to sit next to her on a stool.

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Speaker 1: Then the mistress stood up and pulled Ellie Anastasia's head

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Speaker 1: to her belly. She held it there. She uttered these

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Speaker 1: phrases like she was soothing him.

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Speaker 2: Mother Mary said, you need so much attention, you need

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Speaker 2: special attention and care. And like I'm sitting the time,

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Speaker 2: I remember what is going on. Why she's doing like that?

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Speaker 2: Because it was lasting half an hour, forty minutes that

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Speaker 2: that was so long. How to react? She's superior, she's mistress.

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Speaker 2: What she's doing, I don't understand. I'm just praying this God,

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Speaker 2: let it stop.

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Speaker 3: What is going on?

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Speaker 1: Around this time, Eli Anastasia says his mistress began sexualizing

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Speaker 1: their day to day interactions. At the breakfast table, she

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Speaker 1: read aloud letters from Mother Teresa that mentioned issues like masturbation.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes in class, she read from a controversial spiritual text

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Speaker 1: that hinted an incestuous relationship between Jesus and his mother Mary.

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Speaker 1: Ellie Anastasia thought, this is bizarre, but he kept to

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Speaker 1: his duties.

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Speaker 3: But everything turned worse.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how many weeks past, maybe two three

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Speaker 2: weeks from the beginning it passed.

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Speaker 1: His mistress asked if he wanted to join her for

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Speaker 1: night adoration, basically a prayer session. Elie Anastasia was excited.

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Speaker 1: It was a chance for real silence.

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Speaker 2: No sounds, no, no, it's just just only gotten you,

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Speaker 2: and this is wonderful.

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Speaker 1: After the evening bell rang at ten PM, Ellie Anastasio

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Speaker 1: went to the chapel. His mistress sat close and shared

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Speaker 1: stories from her life. By two or three am, Eli

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Speaker 1: Anastasio was falling asleep. He asked for permission to go

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Speaker 1: to bed, got a couple of hours of rest Before

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Speaker 1: the morning bell. The next day, the mistress asked him again,

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Speaker 1: please join me for night prayers. Ellie Anastasio was sleep

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Speaker 1: deprived from the night before, but agreed again. They stayed

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Speaker 1: in the chapel until early in the morning. Ellie Anastasia

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Speaker 1: says this time, when he started to nod off, the

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Speaker 1: mistress pulled his head onto her lap. Then the mistress

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Speaker 1: repeated the odd phrases.

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Speaker 2: Mother Mary asked me to be your mother. I will

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Speaker 2: be a good mother. To you, just God wants to

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Speaker 2: your night with you.

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Speaker 1: And so on, like she's lulling you because you're so tired.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you understand.

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Speaker 2: I can't understand how it happened because in one second

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Speaker 2: she's turning I had and I'm finding that she's putting

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Speaker 2: her breast into my mouth. I'm lying there and like

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Speaker 2: she's putting her breast into my mouth. I paralyzed that moment.

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Speaker 2: What is going on? And she's speaking something. It was

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Speaker 2: something like Mother Mary was feeding Jesus and I've just paralyzed,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know what to do because her breast in.

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Speaker 3: My mouth and it's awful. Just and I.

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Speaker 2: Don't know how long it was going on. Actually it

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Speaker 2: was like every for me. Everything stopped.

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Speaker 1: Then there was a noise from the staircase, someone walking

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Speaker 1: near the chapel. The mistress quickly covered herself with her

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Speaker 1: Sorry again, Eleanasasia. I didn't know what to make of

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Speaker 1: what was happening. He had no words. He grew up sheltered,

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Speaker 1: no talk of sexual abuse, and he says he never

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Speaker 1: received any training from the missionaries of charity about sexual

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Speaker 1: harassment or what constitutes an appropriate behavior, even though this

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Speaker 1: was a superior the direct voice of God. Something felt

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Speaker 1: incredibly wrong.

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Speaker 2: How that is possible something like that to happen in

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Speaker 2: front of the blessed sacrament the holiest of holy.

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Speaker 1: Stories about sexual abuse are often really hard to investigate,

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Speaker 1: and it's even harder in a group like this that's

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Speaker 1: closed to outsiders. So we partnered with an investigative reporting

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Speaker 1: team type Investigations, and we worked with reporter Catherine Joyce. So, Catherine,

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Speaker 1: you know, we don't know where sisters are stationed. In

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Speaker 1: some cases, we might not even know if they're in

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Speaker 1: the order anymore. We don't know their real or secular names,

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Speaker 1: and their mail is read by their superior, so if

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Speaker 1: we send them a letter, it might not even get

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Speaker 1: to them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think that this was one of the things that

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Speaker 5: was more challenging about reporting the story than any other

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Speaker 5: that I've done. It is such an insular group. There's

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Speaker 5: another superior who is ultimately making a decision about whether

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Speaker 5: or not people can speak to us, and that insularity

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Speaker 5: is so much more formalized than in a lot of

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Speaker 5: other groups that I've looked at. Over the past decade plus,

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Speaker 5: I've reported on this a number of times, sometimes looking

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Speaker 5: at abuse in specific Catholic churches sometimes looking at big

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Speaker 5: fundamentalist or evangelical institutions, whether that's someplace like Bob Jones

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Speaker 5: University or a very large overseas mission group that has

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Speaker 5: a lot of members. So I've seen this sort of

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Speaker 5: stuff in different settings before, and I think that there

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Speaker 5: are some similarities. But one thing that was pretty interesting

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Speaker 5: in this case is that there was a substantial paper trail.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we collected a lot of documents about this story,

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Speaker 1: and Eli Anastasia isn't the only person with an allegation

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Speaker 1: of sexual abuse in the MCS. We also spoke with

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Speaker 1: another former sister named Batilde, and we're going to get

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Speaker 1: to her story a little later.

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Speaker 5: To confirm both stories, we reviewed legal documents, church investigation reports,

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Speaker 5: emails from the MC's regarding their policies. Plus we had

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Speaker 5: dozens of letters that both Batilde and eli Anastasia had

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Speaker 5: been sending back and forth with the MC's or other

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Speaker 5: members of the Catholic hierarchy, other people in their lives,

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Speaker 5: sort of testifying to what had happened to them.

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Speaker 1: We really did want to hear from the missionaries of

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Speaker 1: charity on this, and we wrote to them several times

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Speaker 1: we sent them a comprehensive list of questions. They didn't

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Speaker 1: answer those questions, but we did get a statement from

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Speaker 1: an MC spokesperson who told us that the alleged abusers

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Speaker 1: vehemently denied the allegations.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we asked to speak to them directly, but the

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Speaker 5: MC's declined. That spokesperson also told us that the fact

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Speaker 5: that ele Anastasia and Batilde quote believe they were abused

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Speaker 5: is without question, but continued that the evidence compiled and

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Speaker 5: the investigations the missionaries of charity conducted contradicts their accusations.

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Speaker 1: They're basically saying that they investigated the abuse and they

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Speaker 1: say that the abuse did not happen.

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Speaker 5: Yep.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that stuck out to me in this

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Speaker 1: response is the suggestion that these former sisters both had

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Speaker 1: mental health problems. They also emphasized that neither of them

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Speaker 1: took vows, basically implying that they weren't real missionaries of charity,

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Speaker 1: sort of as a defense against these allegations.

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Speaker 5: You know, there is a long history of responding to

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Speaker 5: rape allegations or abuse allegations by denigrating the mental health

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Speaker 5: of the person who's making the accusation or delegitimizing them

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Speaker 5: in one way or another, basically calling them crazy, sickly

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Speaker 5: calling them crazy. You know, back during the Bill Clinton era,

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Speaker 5: the defense that was commonly made against all of the

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Speaker 5: women who came forward with allegations against President Clinton was

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Speaker 5: referred to as nuts and sluts because women were just

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Speaker 5: being constantly dismissed as either crazy or promiscuous. I mean,

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Speaker 5: I just think that it is a it's a common thing.

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Speaker 1: This praying together. It became a nightly ritual. And Ellie

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Speaker 1: Anastasia says, his mistress pushed things further.

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Speaker 2: She was trying to put for kind, but it should

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Speaker 2: not be at all, never, never, never, because of the

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Speaker 2: vow of chastity. First to fall under my skirt, and

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Speaker 2: I said, whoa stop, what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: The mistress pulled back her hand, but kept moving her body.

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Speaker 7: Against his.

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Speaker 3: And it was just awful.

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Speaker 1: Ellie Anastasia wanted to tell someone. He tried to describe

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Speaker 1: this thing he didn't understand. In confession, he says, the

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Speaker 1: priest dismissed him.

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Speaker 3: Child.

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Speaker 2: Your superior knows I know how very well. She wouldn't

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Speaker 2: wish anything.

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Speaker 3: Bad to you. She's your superior. Listen and do what

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Speaker 3: she tells you.

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Speaker 1: Ellie Anastasia thought maybe he could phone another priest he knew,

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Speaker 1: but he had to ask his mistress for permission to

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Speaker 1: use a payphone in town. Then his mistress stood directly

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Speaker 1: beside him while he made the call. It seemed like

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Speaker 1: there was no way to tell anyone, so Ellie Anastasia

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Speaker 1: says the abuse continued for months. This type of abuse,

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Speaker 1: he alleges abused by a nun. It tends to fly

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Speaker 1: under the radar in the Catholic Church, partly because people

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Speaker 1: don't expect women to be abusers.

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Speaker 6: This is a very unaddressed part of Catholic Church history.

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Speaker 1: Mary Despenza used to be a nun. She now works

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Speaker 1: with SNAP, the Survivors Network for those abused by priests.

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Speaker 1: She leads support groups for survivors. She's their point person

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Speaker 1: for abuse involving nuns.

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Speaker 6: I have probably heard from one hundred and twenty or

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Speaker 6: so survivors of non abuse.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't until after she started leading support groups for

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Speaker 1: survivors of none abuse that you realize an incident from

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Speaker 1: her own time as a nun had been sexual assault.

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Speaker 1: That's so hard it can be to recognize none abuse.

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Speaker 6: Sometimes religious orders are a little bit different from let's

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Speaker 6: say the clergy, because you build up, especially women religious,

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Speaker 6: you really become a family.

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Speaker 4: I often say.

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Speaker 6: Religious abuse within orders men and women is very much

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Speaker 6: like incest. The tendency is even greater to keep quiet

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Speaker 6: and silent because you don't want to hurt your family.

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Speaker 1: And then there's the vow of obedience.

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Speaker 8: They're afraid because they're taught. If you ask questions, it's

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Speaker 8: a sin. If you doubt anything, it's a sin.

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Speaker 1: This is Tom Doyle. He was a Catholic priest for

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Speaker 1: forty years. In the nineteen eighties, he became one of

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Speaker 1: the first priests to draw attention to the clergy sex

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Speaker 1: abuse crisis. He wrote a ninety two page report that

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Speaker 1: urged the church to take the problem seriously.

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Speaker 8: It was the end of my career in the Vatican

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Speaker 8: as a priest.

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Speaker 1: Almost twenty years later, the National Catholic Reporter wrote that

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Speaker 1: his report had been prophetic. Today, Doyle estimates his report

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Speaker 1: has been cited in thousands of lawsuits, and he's become

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Speaker 1: a global expert. He's worked on or consulted on more

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Speaker 1: than a thousand clergy sex abuse cases around the world.

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Speaker 1: He says the rigid hierarchy in conservative religious orders like

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Speaker 1: the Missionaries of Charity can trap abuse victims.

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Speaker 9: Orders where the Mother General or the Mother Superior's word

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Speaker 9: was considered to be the word of God, so that

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Speaker 9: even if they would tell you, even if the Superior

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Speaker 9: gives you an order that is wrong, you have to

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Speaker 9: obey it because it's God's word. Now that is insanity.

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Speaker 1: Eli Anastasia learned to follow the rule of obedience years

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Speaker 1: before he ever came to India. Back in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight, six years before his time, intioned Sarah. He

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Speaker 1: was just starting out. He was an MC pre aspirant

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Speaker 1: in Poland. One day he got news that his grandmother,

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Speaker 1: who was like a mother to him, had died. The

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Speaker 1: mistress in Poland scolded him for crying. Eli Anastasia asked

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Speaker 1: for permission to go home for the funeral, but the

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Speaker 1: mistress said.

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Speaker 2: If you want to go to funeral or somewhere else,

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Speaker 2: but your thinks to go away and never come back again,

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Speaker 2: or shut up and go and smile to your sisters.

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Speaker 1: So basically, either leave and go to the funeral but

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Speaker 1: never come back, yeah, or stay but stop crying, go

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Speaker 1: smile and be your sister.

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Speaker 2: And It was just one or two hours after I

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Speaker 2: got the phone call about that. Oh my heart was

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Speaker 2: broken to kid Jesus, I choose you and what I did?

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Speaker 2: I cried for the last time I went and I

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Speaker 2: started to smile.

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Speaker 1: Eli Anastassia was eventually dismissed from the MC house in Poland.

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Speaker 1: He told us he doesn't know why. When we ask

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Speaker 1: the Missionaries of Charity for comment, an authorized spokesperson claimed

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Speaker 1: Eli Anastasia was dismissed because of his personal conduct. The

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Speaker 1: spokesperson said it included a claim that he put his

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Speaker 1: hand on the throat of a fellow aspirant. The spokesperson

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Speaker 1: also alleges that Eli Anastasia's behavior follows a pattern that

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Speaker 1: he quote enthusiastically enters a missionary of charity community, forms

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Speaker 1: an unhealthy emotional attachment with one of its members, is

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Speaker 1: rebuffed by that individual, and then engages in highly inappropriate behavior,

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Speaker 1: including threats of suicide, until asked to leave. Eli Anastasia

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Speaker 1: says none of this is true.

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Speaker 2: Making up rumors and gossips is the only strategy that

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Speaker 2: the religious family would choose in this terrible situation, in

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Speaker 2: spite of following the way of God, who is a

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Speaker 2: friend of truth.

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Speaker 1: Eli Anastasia says he wasn't suicidal in Poland. He felt

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Speaker 1: being in the MCY house in Poland was one of

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Speaker 1: the happiest times in his life. And not only did

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Speaker 1: he never assault his fellow aspirant, but he says the

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Speaker 1: reverse actually happened. A sister who Anastasia says was troubled,

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Speaker 1: had attacked him twice, ripping the buttons off his shirt.

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Speaker 1: Plus he says that incident happened nearly a year before

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Speaker 1: he was asked to go home, and he says during

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Speaker 1: that time his superior told him to start showing his

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Speaker 1: sorry to get ready to move to the next stage.

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Speaker 1: After he Poland, Eli Anastasia returned home to Russia. He

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Speaker 1: volunteered with the MC's in Moscow, and then he got

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Speaker 1: a second chance to join the Missionaries of Charity. He

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Speaker 1: could start again in India. It felt like a miracle.

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Speaker 1: So when his mistress in India invited him to these

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Speaker 1: night adorations, he worried that if he disobeyed, he'd be

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Speaker 1: sent away again. He says the abuse began in the

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Speaker 1: chapel but then spread to other parts of the house,

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Speaker 1: in particular mother's room, The room in the house where

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Speaker 1: mother Teresa used to stay.

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Speaker 3: This is the room of abuse.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't separated by a wall, just a bamboo screen

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Speaker 1: and a curtain instead of a door.

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Speaker 3: Just every day the same story.

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Speaker 2: She was coming in the mother's room around eleven o'clock

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Speaker 2: and she was taking off my clothes. She was taking

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Speaker 2: off holl clothes. She was lying in the bed. She

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Speaker 2: was putting me on the top, like trying to put

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Speaker 2: breast on breast and just making the movements in order to.

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Speaker 1: Get Eliannastas Yeah, loses his words here, but in a

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Speaker 1: letter he sent the MCS in twenty nineteen, he wrote

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Speaker 1: that his mistress quote moved her body till she got pleasure.

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Speaker 2: She was just constantly repeating about the sacrifice and your

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Speaker 2: special one. You're my Jesus, I'm Mary. You're like Jesus

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Speaker 2: to me. You're like Jesus to me. You're like Jesus

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Speaker 2: to me, and like she was whispering on my ear.

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Speaker 2: This is for the salvation of the world. This is

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Speaker 2: for those who are living in scene. This is for

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Speaker 2: those who are not keeping chaesty tis. This is not

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Speaker 2: the scene. This is just a sacrifice.

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Speaker 1: One time, ali Anastasia says he traveled with his mistress

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Speaker 1: to Kolkata. While they are there, the mistress pointed out

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Speaker 1: another nun. She said that sister betrayed her. The mistress

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Speaker 1: told ali Anastasia, I was a mother to her. She

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Speaker 1: was my daughter like you. She was like my Jesus.

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Speaker 1: Ali Anastasia thought to himself, this is my mistress, admitting

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Speaker 1: she's done this before. The mistress then turned to Elie

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Speaker 1: Anastasia and.

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Speaker 2: Said, will you betray me? Why are you going to

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Speaker 2: be my judas?

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Speaker 1: For decades, the news has been full of stories of

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Speaker 1: sexual abuse scandals in the Catholic Church. They started coming

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Speaker 1: to light while Mother Teresa was still alive and came

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Speaker 1: close to home.

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Speaker 10: I don't know how you know about Tom maguire, but

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Speaker 10: he was a serial abuser of boys.

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Speaker 1: Terry McKiernan is the founder of Bishop Accountability, an organization

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Speaker 1: that documents abuse in the Catholic Church. He's referring to

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Speaker 1: Donald maguire, formerly Father Donald Mare, a Jesuit priest defrocked

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. Donald McGuire was one of

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Speaker 1: many priests who went to prison for sexually abusing boys,

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Speaker 1: and one of the most prominent. He was a conservative

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Speaker 1: and inspiring priest with powerful friends.

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Speaker 10: His mo was that he targeted wealthy, right wing Catholic families,

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Speaker 10: and once he ingratiated himself into that family and began

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Speaker 10: syphoning off funds, he would also convince them to allow

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Speaker 10: their twelve or thirteen year old son to accompany him

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Speaker 10: as his secretary. During these trips, which were you know,

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Speaker 10: basically he was always on the road, he would sexually

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Speaker 10: assault the boy who had been picked to be his

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Speaker 10: his secretary.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty three, McGuire became a spiritual director of

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Speaker 1: the Missionaries of Charity. He traveled the world to MC

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Speaker 1: houses to hear confessions from MC sisters, and he held

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Speaker 1: dozens of retreats for the order. Mother Teresa also met

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Speaker 1: alone with him for confession and spiritual advice. You've actually

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Speaker 1: heard about Donald McGuire before. He's the priest who warned

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Speaker 1: Joan Worcester not to leave the MCS or she'd get

401
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Speaker 1: divorced and have children with disabilities. In the nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 1: McGuire was removed from his position in the church because

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Speaker 1: of abuse allegations. The San Francisco Weekly published a letter

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Speaker 1: that appeared to be written by Mother Teresa, though it

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Speaker 1: wasn't signed. In it, she worried about the reputation of

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Speaker 1: the priesthood. She said she trusted McGuire and she wished

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Speaker 1: to quote see his vital ministry resume as soon as possible.

408
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: McGuire did return, and allegation soon emerged that his abuse continued.

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Speaker 1: In an emailed statement, the mc spokesperson said they didn't

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Speaker 1: believe Mother Teresa personally wrote the letter supporting McGuire, and

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Speaker 1: that McGuire had deceived Mother Teresa and betrayed her trust.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand and three, Donald McGuire went to trial

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Speaker 1: for abuse. Mother Teresa's successor, sister Nimala Joshi, sent a

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Speaker 1: letter to the judge defending his character.

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Speaker 10: The sisters and they're very distinctive as guard, attended the

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Speaker 10: trial to support him. There are pictures of this in

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Speaker 10: the courthouse.

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Speaker 1: The sisters wore buttons on their sare's that read I

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Speaker 1: support father McGuire.

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Speaker 10: The sisters were very very present at that trial.

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Speaker 1: In the end, he was convicted and sent to prison

422
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Speaker 1: for twenty five years. What happened with Donald McGuire and

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Speaker 1: the MCS, it gives me a sense of how the

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Speaker 1: congregation responds to sexual abuse from the top down. And

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Speaker 1: that's what I think this episode is about, not just

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Speaker 1: how a culture can enable abuse, but also how a

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Speaker 1: system works when abuse comes to light. It makes me

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Speaker 1: think of a story Mary Johnson told me. You've heard

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Speaker 1: from Mary Johnson throughout this series. One time she told

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Speaker 1: me said that that caught my attention, a story that

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Speaker 1: seemed to shed light on the culture of the congregation

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Speaker 1: when it comes to sexual assault.

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Speaker 7: There was one time there was a sister she was

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Speaker 7: very upset about something.

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Speaker 1: Mary had a lot of responsibility. She traveled with Mother Teresa.

436
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Speaker 1: She prepared sisters for final vows, basically upper management. She says.

437
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Speaker 1: She told me at one point that she learned about

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Speaker 1: something that happened to several sisters in Europe.

439
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 7: There was a terrible thing that happened in a convent

440
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 7: in a remote location, and one night men broke into

441
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 7: the convent and they raped the sisters, and it was

442
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 7: a really horrible thing.

443
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: Mary says this story was somewhat common knowledge among sisters.

444
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 1: With authority. She heard about it from several nuns, including

445
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: one who was there that night. Another former sister told

446
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,239
Speaker 1: us she'd heard about the same attack. Also directly from

447
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: a sister who'd been there. She said it was whispered

448
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: about in Kolcutta, but considered top secret. In Mary Johnson's case,

449
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: she says she helped one of the nuns from that

450
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: convent prepare for final vows. The sister told Mary that

451
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: the victims talk to Mother Teresa about the.

452
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 7: Attack, and Mother told them, now you have told Mother,

453
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 7: you must never tell anyone else again. You must never

454
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 7: speak of it. And obviously this is not going to

455
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 7: be helpful to those sisters. Those sisters had had this

456
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 7: very traumatic experience. You don't heal from trauma by ignoring it.

457
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: Why do you think Mother Teresa said that to them,

458
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: to not speak of it ever again.

459
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 7: She would often say that for various things, like, Okay,

460
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 7: you've told Mother, now, never speak of it again, for

461
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 7: various things. For Mother, speaking about bad things that had

462
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 7: happened was almost as bad, or even worse than the

463
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 7: fact that the thing had happened.

464
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: Mary says, Mother Teresa just didn't understand how trauma worked,

465
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: that hiding something could make it worse, and that brings

466
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: us to Batild. Batilde asked us not to use her

467
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: last name. She's sixty two years old and lives in Paris,

468
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: and she was once a sister with the Missionaries of Charity.

469
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 4: The first letter.

470
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: Over the past eighteen years, she's written a lot of letters.

471
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: They describe abuse, she says she experienced in the order,

472
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: letters to the head of the Missionaries of Charity, letters

473
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: to the Vatican.

474
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 4: Yes, I have it in front of me.

475
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: The first letter in two thousand and three was to

476
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: his sister. We're not naming her alleged abuser.

477
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 4: I think you remember me. I was your postudent in

478
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 4: Rome in San Gregorio, a on the year nighteen eighty seven,

479
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 4: the one that you have sexually abused.

480
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: It was in that convent in San Gregorio that she

481
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: met the sister who she says sexually abused her. Her mistress.

482
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: But Til says, at first the mistress just directed her

483
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: as she would any pasturelant. But a few weeks in

484
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: her mistress told her she loved her. Then things became physical.

485
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 4: After night prayer, she would sit calm and then sitting

486
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 4: in the bench, and then she would kiss me, and

487
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 4: I mean I don't like to see it. She would,

488
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,479
Speaker 4: I mean she would kiss me, she would put my breast.

489
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 4: She would tell me. One day I will take your

490
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 4: clothes all out and I will kiss you everywhere. But

491
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 4: she only said, and she did not do. I knew

492
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 4: that every day it would happen, That's all I knew.

493
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: Batilda did what she could to avoid her, but that

494
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: angered her.

495
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 4: Mistress, you have to you have to obey me. You

496
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 4: are very disobedient.

497
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: In time, she says, the abuse became more forceful.

498
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 4: She would take me and we were to get that

499
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 4: big corridor. She would push me again the wall or

500
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 4: walking in front of me, and then turned suddenly and

501
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 4: taking me in to her arms. And I mean I

502
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 4: could not escape. I mean I didn't know what to do.

503
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: Batilda says she didn't dare tell the regional Superior. She

504
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: just yelled at her. She told multiple priests, but says

505
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: they were no help, that they pretended not to hear

506
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: her and change the subject. She says mother Teresa once

507
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: asked her if someone was bothering her, but that she

508
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: said nothing for fear of being scolded. Batilda outwardly changed

509
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,239
Speaker 1: during this time. She remembers the regional Superior reprimanded.

510
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 4: Her, why are you not smiling? You never smile. I

511
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 4: could not smile. I was it was difficult.

512
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: Eventually she gave up. She felt empty justin.

513
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 4: Let her do and I did not defend myself.

514
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: Batild graduated out of postulancy and was transferred to Poland.

515
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: The abuse was over. It was a relief, so much

516
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: so she remarked one day how nice it was to

517
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: be there, and according to Batilde, the superior there overheard

518
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: and asked what she meant. She started to tell her

519
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: story and the superior stopped her. You don't need to

520
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: go any further, She said, I know who it is.

521
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: She named Batild's mistress and said she did the same

522
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: to another sister. Batild superior urged her to repeat the

523
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: story to the regional superior, so she did, but she

524
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: says the regional reacted with disdain. She told Batilde, I

525
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: knew you were a kind of sister like that. Years later,

526
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: when Batild confronted the order with her allegations, both the

527
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: superior and the regional superior said they didn't recall those conversations.

528
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: When the time came, Batild was not permitted to take

529
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: her vows. She says she wasn't told why. Instead, she

530
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: was abruptly sent home. After two years, she asked to

531
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: rejoin the MCS, she was accepted into the Contemplative branch.

532
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: Contemplative days were quiet, filled with prayer, but in that silence,

533
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: she started having flashbacks and trouble sleeping.

534
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 4: She says.

535
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: She reached out to Sister Nimala Joshi, the founder of

536
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: the Contemplative branch. She told Sister Normala about the abuse.

537
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: In response, Batilde says, Sister Narmala encouraged her to see

538
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: a psychologist. And one more.

539
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 4: Thing, she told me, you don't speak to anybody of

540
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 4: what happened. You speak to nobody, absolutely nobody, So I mean,

541
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 4: is the thing that I have to do? Speak to anybody?

542
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 4: And then now having very much pain in this talk,

543
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 4: and then that was not a good thing to say,

544
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 4: not to speak to anybody.

545
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: In time, Batilda was sent home again, dismissed from the MCS,

546
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: and again it wasn't clear why, just a vague suggestion

547
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: that she wasn't obedient enough. They dropped her off at

548
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: the airport with four hundred dollars and a miraculous medal,

549
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: one of those tokens Mother Teresa used to give out.

550
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: Batild went home to Paris years past. That brings us

551
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: back to the letter writing around two thousand and three,

552
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: Batilda read in the newspaper about the global sexual abuse

553
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: scandal on the Catholic Church. She was still haunted by

554
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: her own experience. She decided to write a letter. She thought,

555
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: maybe an acknowledgment or an apology will help me heal.

556
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 4: And I will feel much better and I will feel

557
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 4: all right. I mean, all my life is rooin for me.

558
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: She damaged everything, so she wrote to her former mistress, you.

559
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 4: Made my life very difficult. It was very difficult to

560
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 4: pray because of flashback coming in my head. Lack of trust,

561
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 4: pain in the stomach and lack of trust were the superiors.

562
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 4: How do you repair all that?

563
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: She also sent a copy to Sister Nimala, the sister

564
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: who'd sent her to a psychologist and told her never

565
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: to speak of it. By now, Sister Narmala was actually

566
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: the Superior General Mother Teresa's successor to lead the MCS

567
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 1: A couple of weeks later, but Tilt heared back from

568
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: her former mistress. She flatly denied the allegations. I have

569
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: done nothing to bring upon me such an accusation, she wrote.

570
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 1: Then she ended the letter, I am praying for you

571
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: and asking the Lord to forgive you.

572
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,919
Speaker 4: I felt very very bad. Dead letter, very bad.

573
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: She also received a respond from Sister Nimala, the head

574
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: of the MC at the time.

575
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 4: Dear Bathilde, thank you for the copy of your letter

576
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 4: to sister date fourth November two or three, accusing her

577
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 4: of sexually abusing you when you were a postant. I

578
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 4: was deeply pain when I read it.

579
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 1: In the letter, Sister Nermala said, she spoke to the

580
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: alleged abuser, and that quote, the mature way in which

581
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: she responded to such a painful situation, leaves me no

582
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: room to doubt her sincerity. Then Sister Normala addressed but

583
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: telt herself.

584
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 4: I wonder what made you write such a letter. Is

585
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 4: it really true? Or is it because you are so

586
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 4: hurt in life that you can't help hurting others also?

587
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 4: Whatever it may be, I asked Jesu if to take

588
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 4: away all the burden of pain you carry in your

589
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 4: heart and fill it with his own love, so that

590
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 4: you may be able to forgive all who have hurt you,

591
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 4: and ask pardon of all whom you have heard, and

592
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 4: ask o lady, and to be tilled.

593
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: The message was clear she was the one causing problems

594
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: case closed, no follow up, no investigation, no apology.

595
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 4: As with much love and prayer, God bless you, Sister

596
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 4: Nyamala MC.

597
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 1: This did not inter Beteld. She wrote Sister Nimala back

598
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: the next month in December two thousand and three, no response.

599
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: Again in June two thousand and four, no response. In

600
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: November two thousand and four, she wrote again, Please sister,

601
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: do not put down a sister who was suffered from

602
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: sexual harassment, otherwise you victimize her. A second time, more silence.

603
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: Finally Sister Nimala responded. It was late January two thousand

604
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: and five. Sister Nimala wrote, we want to know the truth.

605
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: Truth must prevail. She said the MC's had a policy

606
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: and procedure to follow and were starting an investigation. She

607
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: also said Buttilt would send any evidence she had to

608
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: prove her accusations. Batild went into overdrive. She gathered letters

609
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: from family members and her old psychologist. Her sister wrote

610
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: that after leaving the MCS, Batild suffered from flashbacks and

611
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: her face was dull. Batild mailed it all to the

612
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: Missionaries of Charity. The mc said they would contact Batild

613
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: quote at the appropriate time, but batildt says she was

614
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: never told what was involved or who was being talked

615
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: to for the investigation. She received no follow up questions, nothing. Frustrated,

616
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: she wrote to officials in the Catholic hierarchy. They offered

617
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: Betild empathy, but little else. Eventually, a year and a

618
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: half later, in two thousand and six, the church sent

619
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: Betild a response. It says, quote, it appears that material

620
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: evidence which could support your accusations against the sister beyond

621
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: any doubt, is missing. Actually there is only one testimony,

622
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: yours against the sister's word. Again, case closed. To this day,

623
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: Bathild says she's never seen any official report or other

624
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 1: documentation of the investigation, and to this day she says

625
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: what her mistress did affects her.

626
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 4: Prayer is difficult to pray, but I do. I do.

627
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 4: I feel hard in everything. I feel like I feel

628
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 4: like if I don't exist, it's like a big, infinite

629
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 4: devastation of the being.

630
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 3: Me.

631
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 4: I want a truth, that's all, and I'm not getting it.

632
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, Batilde renewed her letter writing campaign. She

633
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: wrote to Pope Francis, who'd said sympathetic things about victims.

634
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: She didn't hear back from him. She heard from the

635
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: Vatican's Office on Religious Orders off her allegations, and eventually

636
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 1: they warned that if she continued to say the Church

637
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: had treated her unfairly, she could face legal action for slander.

638
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: El Anastasia couldn't sleep, or really, his mistress wouldn't let

639
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: him sleep. It was twenty fourteen in the conventation Surah, India.

640
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 1: He uses he him pronouns now. He says his mistress

641
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: abused him almost every night for months. She kept him

642
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: up until an hour or two before the morning bell.

643
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 2: I was a zombie. You didn't understand what I'm doing.

644
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 2: I could not really even separate the reality and not

645
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 2: reality because you're sleeping or not sleeping. It was just

646
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 2: one day, which is not finishing.

647
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: One night, eli Anasasia and his mistress heard a sound.

648
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: Somebody nearby used the bathroom and then left quickly. Eli

649
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: Anastasia figured the sister must have overheard them.

650
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 2: For sure, everybody heard it. It is just not possible

651
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 2: not to hear.

652
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: Then, out of the blue, a senior sister from MC

653
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 1: headquarters visited the house. She interviewed eli Anasasia's fellow pastulant

654
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: for an entire day. Soon after, ali Anasasia says he

655
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: was abruptly summoned to Kolkatta by Sister Ansie, the head

656
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: of the MC's contemplative branch.

657
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 2: And she said, I want to talk to you or

658
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 2: have a conversation. Please come on Wednesday, but by the way,

659
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 2: can you pick up all your clothes and things.

660
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: Eli Anastasia's mistress was summoned too. When they arrived, Sister

661
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: Ansie spoke to the mistress for first. They talked for

662
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: over an hour. Then it was Eli Anastasia's turn.

663
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: Hello, sister, and she's starting to shout at me. You

664
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 2: have to go from here with a minute, sister. I

665
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 2: can't understand what is going on, like I'm believing that

666
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: in Chinsula. I cannot understand what is happening, Like what

667
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 2: is the reason you called me?

668
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 3: Can you explain me what you want from me?

669
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: Eli Anastasio was being sent away, not just from Chinsura,

670
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 1: not just from India, but he would find out later

671
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: from the missionaries of charity, and he didn't know why.

672
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: In an email to us, the MC spokesperson suggested that

673
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 1: Eli Anastasio was dismissed because of his personal conduct. The

674
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: spokesperson implied he'd become fixated on a fellow sister and

675
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: acted inappropriately. Eli Anastasia says, no one said anything like

676
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: this to him.

677
00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 2: There was no nothing euh like, no no breakings of

678
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 2: the rules, nothing, nothing, nothing, he says.

679
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 1: He asked again and again why he was being sent away. Finally,

680
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: he says, sister Unsie told him that since Eli Anastasio

681
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: was Russian and Vladimir Putin had invaded Ukraine, his presence

682
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: might cause problems for the sisters in Chinsura.

683
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 2: I can't understand, really, what is the reason, because what

684
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 2: I have to do with Putin?

685
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: As far as he knew, no sister had ever been

686
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: sent away from the MCS for something like this. After all,

687
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: once you're called, you're called for life. He was given

688
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 1: a plane ticket home to Russia. As for his mistress,

689
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: Alianisasia says she also got a ticket. She was transferred

690
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: to another MC branch in Nepal. Once he was back

691
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: in Russia, Eli Anastasia fell into a deep depression. Friend

692
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 1: he stayed with had to force him to eat.

693
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 2: I was just a vegetable out of reality, fully, no desires, nothing, nothing.

694
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: He didn't have the language to explain what had happened

695
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:15,839
Speaker 1: to him. For a few months he was suicidal. One

696
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: day he spent a long time alone in a chapel

697
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: in front of the altar, pleading with God.

698
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 2: So on the question to God, why if you gave

699
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 2: me this vocation to be a nun, why it had happened,

700
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 2: How you allowed to deal with it? How I should

701
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 2: live with that? Where is the way you called me?

702
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:36,879
Speaker 2: And what shall I do now?

703
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 3: With all that?

704
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 2: I cannot even understand what is going on, crying and

705
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 2: shouting to Jesus, and crying and shouting still.

706
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: Eventually ali an Assassium met other people who had suffered

707
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 1: traumatic experiences. They gave him the words he needed, sexual

708
00:43:55,320 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: abuse PTSD. Over time he thought maybe there are other

709
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 1: victims and the missionaries of charity, and if I couldn't

710
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: name what happened, how could they. In twenty nineteen, five

711
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: years after he was forced from the order, ali Anastasia

712
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: wrote a letter your sisters.

713
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: This letter is written in fulfillment of the instruction of

714
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 2: my spiritual father and it is addressed to Reverend Sister Prema,

715
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 2: as the head of the Society of the Missionaries of Charity.

716
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 2: The main topic of this letter is sexual and spiritual abuse.

717
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: Ali Anastasia laid out what had happened to him.

718
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: I wanted to have a dialogue with the society first,

719
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 2: just to share my story, because my main aim to

720
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: change the neglect.

721
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: Three months later, he got a phone call. It was

722
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: Sister Prema, the current Superior General of the MCS. She

723
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: asked Eli Anastasia, what exactly did he want them to

724
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: do for him. So Ali Anastasia wrote a list of

725
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: systemic changes. Provided ducation and training on sexual violence, support

726
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: pasted victims with psychological care, financially compensate sisters who leave

727
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: their vocation, especially sisters from underdeveloped countries, offer rehabilitation for

728
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 1: perpetrators and prevent them from serving in physitions of power.

729
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 2: I was asking close to Sister Prema to appoint a

730
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 2: proper person to whom any sisters anyone in the society

731
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 2: can freely without permission, without asking permission for a phone call,

732
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 2: can turn and to report.

733
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,839
Speaker 1: In response, the MC's commissioned a canon lawyer to look

734
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: at the case. A canon lawyer is someone accredited to

735
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 1: work within the Catholic Church's internal legal system.

736
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 11: My name is Helen Costigan. I'm a member of the

737
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 11: Society of the Holy Child Jesus. I live in Hammersmith

738
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 11: and London, and I teach model theology and canon lawsuit

739
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 11: Mary's University in Twickenham.

740
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: Helen Costigan's job was to investigate the claims of abuse,

741
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: but she told us she wasn't actually able to conduct

742
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: a full investigation. The sisters were too hard to reach,

743
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 1: often in remote locations with bad connections and no computers.

744
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: But Helen Costigan wrote a report. The spokesperson for the

745
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: Missionaries of Charity set in an email to us that

746
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 1: Costigan's report concluded there was quote no concrete evidence to

747
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: suffort the allegations. She did say that, but it's not

748
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: all she.

749
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 11: Said, and there is no evidence to support the allegations.

750
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 11: But that's not to say that it didn't happen.

751
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: Like Elianastasia, she told the mcs they should make changes,

752
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: provide training and maintaining proper boundaries, create an external channel

753
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: to report abuse, and psychologically assess sisters when they enter.

754
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: She said the mc should look at Pope Francis's new

755
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: guidelines on sexual abuse, which expressly forbid retaliation against victims.

756
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 11: That's somethings Porte Francis has said, you have to listen

757
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 11: to the victims that's important.

758
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: Costigan asked Eleannastasia to total his expenses related to his trauma,

759
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: and she told the MCS to follow up about compensation. Finally,

760
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,720
Speaker 1: she asked the MCS to give eli Anastasia a copy

761
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: of the official report, but the Missionaries of Charity didn't

762
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: do that. Instead, in February twenty twenty, they sent ele

763
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: Anastasia a letter. It insinuated that his allegations were just

764
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: a ruse for money, that Eli Anastasia should quote be careful,

765
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: and then they wrote this, what you have written could

766
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: be considered blackmail. We would not want to jeopardize your

767
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: situation or create unnecessary liability issues.

768
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 2: She's just threatening me with the black mail. If I

769
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 2: would not have such a support like now on that letter,

770
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 2: I don't know, I would be suicidal.

771
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: Costigan was concerned enough that she responded to the MCS directly, writing.

772
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 11: I was appalled by the tone and content. Is putting

773
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 11: it mildly because I have to say I thought, oh,

774
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 11: that's really you know, that's not helping in a sense.

775
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: After Costigan's letter, the MCS did send eli Anastasia the report,

776
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: but now he worried he could be at legal risk,

777
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 1: so he looked for a lawyer. He found his way

778
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: to Tom Doyle, the former priest we heard from earlier

779
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: who's worked on more than a thousand clergy sex abuse cases.

780
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: He's also a canon lawyer. He consulted pro bono on

781
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 1: ele Anastasia's case for a few months in twenty twenty

782
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,479
Speaker 1: and twenty twenty one. This spring, they parted ways after

783
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,879
Speaker 1: a disagreement about a partnering legal group, but Doyle says

784
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: he still believes ele Anastasia's allegations and supports the case.

785
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: Eli Anastasia hopes to continue his case, not a criminal

786
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: complaint to press charges or a civil complaint for compensation.

787
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 1: He wants to enter a canon law process with the Vatican.

788
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: He wants to convince the Church to investigate abuse and

789
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: neglect in the missionaries of charity. He hopes to start

790
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: a class action complaint for people who have suffered similar

791
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,959
Speaker 1: abuse or neglect from the mcs.

792
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 2: And still I have nothing against the sisters itself, I

793
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 2: have nothing against the charge itself. Still today I have

794
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 2: wonderful sisters who are really leaving their vocation as they

795
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 2: can and trying to do the best they can.

796
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 3: I'm against the system.

797
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 2: We should embrace our faults, to change, to take a

798
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: responsibility for annection.

799
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting to me here and you say

800
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: that because it's bringing to my mind that speaking your

801
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: faults and acknowledging your failure is such a big part

802
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: of being a missionary of charity. And so in a

803
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 1: sense what you're asking for is actually very central to

804
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: the mission, which is to acknowledge sin or acknowledge faults

805
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 1: and making amends in some way. And that's what you want.

806
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, Today, missionaries of charity, there are really witnesses of silence,

807
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 2: to cover up, to hide, to silence others. That's not

808
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,919
Speaker 2: a silence in which God leaves. It is completely opposite.

809
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 2: God is not a friend of covering up the oppression.

810
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:26,760
Speaker 2: God is a friend of truth. Preach the truth as

811
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 2: if you had a million voices. It is silence that

812
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 2: kills the world.

813
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 1: This episode was reported in partnership with Type Investigations. You

814
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: can find out more at Type investigations dot org. Special

815
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:23,720
Speaker 1: thanks to reporter Katherine Joyce, editor Sasha Bolenki, Factchucker Nandanni Rotti,

816
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: and editor Sarah Blustain. The Turning is written by Allen

817
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 1: Lance Lesser and me Our producers are Allen Lancelesser and

818
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: Emily Foreman. Our editor is Rob Rosenthal Andrea Esfahe is

819
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: our digital producer. Fact checking by Andrea Lopez Crusado. Special

820
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: thanks to Adeleine Seer, Marie Claire Jeauvois, Amy Gaines, Sarah Olander,

821
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 1: Maraud Frishkoff, Bethanne Mcaluso, Travis Dunlap, and consulting producer Mary Johnson.

822
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: Her memoir and Unquenchable Thirst provided inspiration for this series.

823
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Jessica Alpert and John Paratti and

824
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: Rococo Punch and Katrino Norvella iHeartRadio. Our theme music is

825
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 1: by Matt Reid. For photos and more details on this series,

826
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Rococo Punch. You can reach

827
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,839
Speaker 1: out via email to the Turning at Rococo Punch dot com. Hi,

828
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 1: Am Erica Lance. Thanks for listening.

829
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 2: M