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Speaker 1: Hey, Jesse Kelly, listen, nurse. It's Tucker Carlson. I'm actually

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Speaker 1: a friend, a close personal friend of Jesse Kelly's, not

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Speaker 1: to brag and more now that we're both in independent media,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, there's really no media in America apart

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Speaker 1: from independent media. The other guys are just political operatives,

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Speaker 1: the praetorian guard of the ruling class. They're not only

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Speaker 1: lying to you, they hate you. If you want to

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Speaker 1: know what's actually happening, if you want to know what's true,

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Speaker 1: if you're going to have any hope of being informed,

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Speaker 1: you have to get out of NBC, CNN, New York Times,

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Speaker 1: Washington Post World and get into independent media. And that's

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Speaker 1: where we are now. We've been doing a show on

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Speaker 1: x for the past few months, and a bunch of

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Speaker 1: people have asked if they could listen to the show

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Speaker 1: as a podcast. Well, you can check out this sample episode.

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Speaker 1: Subscribe now to the Tucker Carlson Podcast. The defining fact

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Speaker 1: of the United States is freedom of speech. The extent

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Speaker 1: this country is actually exceptional. It's because we have the

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Speaker 1: First Amendment to the Bill of Rights. We have freedom

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Speaker 1: of conscience. We can say what we really think. There's

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Speaker 1: no hate speech. Exception to that is, because you hate

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Speaker 1: what somebody else thinks, you cannot force that person to

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Speaker 1: be quiet, because we're citizens, not slaves. But that right,

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Speaker 1: that foundational right that makes this country what it is,

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Speaker 1: that right from which all other rights flow, is going

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Speaker 1: away at high speed in the face of censorship, now

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Speaker 1: modern censorship. There's no resemblance to previous censorship regimes in

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Speaker 1: previous countries, in previous eras. Our censorship is affected on

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Speaker 1: the basis of fights against disinformation and malinformation. And the

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Speaker 1: key thing to know about these is they're everywhere, and

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Speaker 1: of course they have no reference at all to whether

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Speaker 1: what you're saying is true or not. In other words,

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Speaker 1: you can say something that is factually accurate and consistent

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Speaker 1: with your own com unence, and in previous versions of

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Speaker 1: America you wo had an absolute right to say those things.

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Speaker 1: But because someone doesn't like them, or because they're inconvenient

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Speaker 1: to whatever plan the people in power have, they can

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Speaker 1: be denounced as disinformation and you could be stripped of

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Speaker 1: your right to express them, either in person or online.

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Speaker 1: In fact, expressing these things can become a criminal act

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Speaker 1: and is, and it's important to know. By the way,

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Speaker 1: that this is not just the private sector doing this.

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Speaker 1: These efforts are being directed by the US government, which

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Speaker 1: you pay for and at least theoretically own. It's your government,

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Speaker 1: but they're stripping your rights at very high speed. Most

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Speaker 1: people understand this intuitively, but they don't know how it happens.

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Speaker 1: How does censorship happen, What are the mechanics of it.

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Speaker 1: Mike Ben's is, we can say, with some confidence, the

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Speaker 1: expert in the world on how this happens. Mike Ben's

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Speaker 1: had the cyber portfolio at the State Department. He's now

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Speaker 1: executive director of Foundation for Freedom Online, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to have a conversation with him about a very specific

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Speaker 1: kind of censorship. By the way, you can't recommend strongly

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Speaker 1: enough if you want to know how this happens, Mike

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Speaker 1: Bens b n Z is the man to read. But

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Speaker 1: today we just want to talk about a specific kind

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Speaker 1: of censorship, and that censorship that emanates from the fabled

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Speaker 1: military industrial complex, from our defense industry and the foreign

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Speaker 1: policy establishment in Washington. That's significant now because we're on

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Speaker 1: the cusp of a global war, and so you can

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Speaker 1: expect censorship to increase dramatically, and so with that. Here's

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Speaker 1: Mike Ben's, executive director of Foundation for Freedom Online to Mike,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. And I just can't

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Speaker 1: overstate to our audience how exhaustive and comprehensive your knowledge

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Speaker 1: is on this topic. It's almost it's almost unbelievable. And

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Speaker 1: so if you could just walk us through how the

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Speaker 1: Foreign Policy Establishment and the defense contractors and the DoD

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Speaker 1: and just the whole cluster, the constellation of defense related

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Speaker 1: publicly funded institutions stripped from us our freedom of speech.

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Speaker 2: Sure you know, one of the easiest ways to actually

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Speaker 2: start the story is really with the story of Internet freedom,

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Speaker 2: and it switched from Internet freedom to Internet censorship because

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Speaker 2: free speech on the Internet was an instrument of state

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Speaker 2: craft almost from the outset of the privatization of the

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Speaker 2: Internet in nineteen ninety one, we quickly discovered, through the

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Speaker 2: efforts of the Defense Department, the State Department, and our

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Speaker 2: intelligence services that people were using the Internet to congregate

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Speaker 2: on blogs and forums, and free speech was championed more

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Speaker 2: than anybody by the Pentagon, the State Department, and our

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Speaker 2: sort of CIA cutout NGO blob architecture as a way

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Speaker 2: to support dissident groups around the world in order to

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Speaker 2: help them overthrow authoritarian governments as they were sort of build. Essentially,

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Speaker 2: the Internet free speech allowed kind of insta regime change

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Speaker 2: operations to be able to facilitate the foreign policy establishments

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Speaker 2: State Department agenda.

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Speaker 3: Google is a great example of this.

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Speaker 2: Google began as a DARPA grant by Larry Page and

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Speaker 2: Sergey Brinn when they were Stanford PhDs, and they got

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Speaker 2: their funding as part of a joint CIA NSA program

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Speaker 2: to chart how quote birds of a feather flocked together

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Speaker 2: online through search engine aggregation. And then one year later

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Speaker 2: they launched Google and then became a military contractor. Quickly

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Speaker 2: thereafter they got Google Maps by purchasing a CIA satellite software. Essentially,

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Speaker 2: and the ability to track to use free speech on

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Speaker 2: the Internet is a way to circumvent state control over

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Speaker 2: media over in places like Central Asia or all around

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Speaker 2: the world was seen as a way to be able

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Speaker 2: to do what used to be done out of CIA

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Speaker 2: station houses or out of embassies or consulates in a

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Speaker 2: way that was totally urbo charged. And all of the

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Speaker 2: Internet free speech technology was initially created by our national

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Speaker 2: security state VPN's virtual private networks to hide your IP

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Speaker 2: address tour the dark web, to be able to buy

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Speaker 2: and trail sell goods anonymously, and to end encrypted chats.

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Speaker 2: All these things were created initially as DARPA projects or

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Speaker 2: as joint CIA NSA projects to be able to help

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Speaker 2: intelligence backed groups to overthrow governments that were causing a

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Speaker 2: problem to the Clinton administration or the Bush administration of

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Speaker 2: the Obama administration. And this plan worked magically from about

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one until about twenty fourteen, when there began

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Speaker 2: to be an about face on Internet freedom and its utility. Now,

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Speaker 2: the high water mark of the sort of Internet free

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Speaker 2: speech moment was the Arab Spring in twenty eleven twenty twelve,

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Speaker 2: when you had this one by one, all of the

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Speaker 2: adversary governments of the Obama administration, Egypt, Tunisia all began

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Speaker 2: to be toppled in Facebook.

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Speaker 3: Revolution and Twitter revolutions.

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Speaker 2: And you had the State Department working very closely with

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Speaker 2: the social media companies to be able to keep social

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Speaker 2: media online.

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Speaker 3: During those periods.

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Speaker 2: There was a famous phone call from Google's Jared Cohen

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Speaker 2: to Twitter to not do their scheduled maintenance so that

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Speaker 2: so that the preferred opposition group in Iran would be

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Speaker 2: able to use Twitter to win that election. So it

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Speaker 2: was an free speech was an instrument of state craft

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Speaker 2: from the national security state. To begin with, all of

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Speaker 2: that architecture, all the NGOs, the relationships between the tech

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Speaker 2: companies and the national security state had been long established

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Speaker 2: for freedom. In twenty fourteen, after the coup in Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: there was an unexpected counter coup where Crimea and the

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Speaker 2: don Bass broke away, and they broke away with essentially

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Speaker 2: a military backstop that NATA was highly unprepared for at

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Speaker 2: the time. They had one last Hail Mary chance, which

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Speaker 2: was the Crimea annexation vote in twenty fourteen, and when

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Speaker 2: the hearts and minds of the people of Crimea voted

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Speaker 2: to join the Russian Federation, that was the last straw

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Speaker 2: for the concept of free speech on the internet in

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Speaker 2: the eyes of NATO.

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Speaker 3: Is they saw it.

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Speaker 2: The fundamental nature of war changed at that moment, and

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Speaker 2: NATO at that point declared something that they first called

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Speaker 2: the Jirosimuff doctrine, which is named after this Russian military

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Speaker 2: general who they claimed made a speech that the fundamental

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Speaker 2: nature of war has changed. You don't need to win

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Speaker 2: military skirmishes to take over Central and Eastern Europe. All

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Speaker 2: you need to do is control the media and the

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Speaker 2: social media ecosystem, because that's what controls elections. And if

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Speaker 2: you simply get the right administration into power, they control

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Speaker 2: the military. So it's infinitely cheaper than conducting a military

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Speaker 2: war to simply conduct an organized political influence operation over

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Speaker 2: social media and legacy media. An industry had been created

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Speaker 2: that spanned the Pentagon, the British Ministry of Defense, and

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Speaker 2: Brussels into a organized.

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Speaker 3: Political warfare outfit.

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Speaker 2: Essentially infrastructure that was created, initially stationed in Germany and

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Speaker 2: in central and Eastern Europe to create psychological buffer zones,

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Speaker 2: basically to create the ability to have the military work

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Speaker 2: with the social media companies to censor Russian propaganda or

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Speaker 2: to censor domestic right wing populist groups in Europe who

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Speaker 2: were rising in political power at the time because of

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Speaker 2: the migrant crisis. So you had the systematic targeting by

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Speaker 2: our State Department, by our ic by the Pentagon of

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Speaker 2: groups like Germany's AfD, the Alternative for deutsch Land there

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Speaker 2: and for groups in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. Now, when bregsit

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Speaker 2: happened in twenty sixteen, that was this crisis moment where

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Speaker 2: suddenly they didn't have to worry just about central Eastern

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Speaker 2: Europe anymore.

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Speaker 3: It was coming westward, this idea.

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Speaker 2: Of Russian control over hearts and minds and so breggs.

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Speaker 3: It was June twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: The very next month, at the Warsaw Conference, NATO formally

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Speaker 2: amended its charter to.

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Speaker 3: Expressly commit to.

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Speaker 2: Hybrid warfare as this new NATO capacity. So they went

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Speaker 2: from basically seventy years of tanks to this explicit capacity

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Speaker 2: building for censoring tweets that they were deemed to be

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Speaker 2: Russian proxies. And again it's not just Russian propaganda. These

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Speaker 2: were now Brexit groups or groups like Matteo Salvini in

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Speaker 2: Italy or in Greece, or in Germany or in Spain

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Speaker 2: with the Vox Party. And now at the time NATO

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Speaker 2: was publishing white papers saying that the biggest threat to

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Speaker 2: NATO fasis is not actually a military invasion from Russia,

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Speaker 2: it's losing domestic elections across Europe to all these right

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Speaker 2: wing populist groups who, because they were mostly working class movements,

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Speaker 2: were campaigning on cheap Russian energy at a time when

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Speaker 2: the US was pressuring this energy diversification policy, and so

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Speaker 2: they made the argument after Brexit, now the entire rules

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Speaker 2: based international order would collapse unless the military took control

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Speaker 2: over media, because Brexit would give rise to Frexit in

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Speaker 2: France with marine leapen, just Bexit in Spain with a

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Speaker 2: box party to itall Exit in Italy, to Grexit in Germany,

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Speaker 2: to Gregxit and Greece.

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Speaker 3: The EU would come apart.

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Speaker 2: So NATO would be killed without a single bullet being fired.

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Speaker 2: And then not only that, now that NATO's gone, now

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Speaker 2: there's no enforcement arm for the International Monetary Fund, the IMF,

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Speaker 2: for the World Bank.

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Speaker 3: So now the financial.

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Speaker 2: Stakeholders who depend on the battering ram of the national

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Speaker 2: security state would basically be helpless against governments around the world. So,

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Speaker 2: from their perspective, if the military did not begin to

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Speaker 2: censor the Internet, all of the democratic institutions in infrastructure

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Speaker 2: that gave rise to the modern world after World War

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Speaker 2: Two would collapse.

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Speaker 3: So you can imagine that some one of the twenty

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Speaker 3: sixteen election.

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Speaker 1: So you just told a remarkable story or that I've

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Speaker 1: never heard anybody explain as lucidly and crisply as you

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Speaker 1: just did. But did anyone at NATO or anyone at

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Speaker 1: the State Department, pause Rome and say, wait a second,

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Speaker 1: we've just identified our new enemy as democracy within our

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Speaker 1: own countries. I think that's what you're saying. They feared

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Speaker 1: that the people, the citizens of their own countries would

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Speaker 1: get their way, and they went to war against that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, now, you know, there's a rich history of this

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Speaker 2: dating back to the Cold War. You know, the Cold

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Speaker 2: War in Europe was essentially a similar, a similar struggle

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Speaker 2: for hearts and minds of people, especially in Central and

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Speaker 2: Eastern Europe, you know, in these sort of you know,

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Speaker 2: Soviet buffer zones. And starting in nineteen forty eight, the

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Speaker 2: National Security state was really established. Then you had the

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Speaker 2: nineteen forty seven Act, which established the Central Intelligence Agency.

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Speaker 3: You had, you know, this new world order.

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Speaker 2: That had been created with all these international institutions, and

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Speaker 2: you had the nineteen forty eight UN Declaration on Human Rights,

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Speaker 2: which forbid the territorial acquisition by military force. So you

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Speaker 2: can no longer run a traditional military occupation government in

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Speaker 2: the way that we could in eighteen ninety eight, for example,

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Speaker 2: when we took the Philippines, everything had to be done

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Speaker 2: through a sort of political legitimization process, whereby there's some

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Speaker 2: ratification from the hearts and minds of people within the country. Now,

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Speaker 2: often that involves simply puppet politicians who are groomed as

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Speaker 2: emerging leaders by our State Department. But the battle for

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Speaker 2: hearts and minds had been something that we had been

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Speaker 2: giving ourselves a long moral license leash if you will,

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Speaker 2: since nineteen forty eight. One of the godfathers of the CIA,

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Speaker 2: George Kennan, twelve days after we rigged the Italian election

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Speaker 2: in nineteen forty eight by stuffing ballot boxes and working

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Speaker 2: with the mob, we published a memo called the Inauguration

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Speaker 2: of Organized Political Warfare, where he said, listen, it's a

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Speaker 2: mean old world out there. We at the CIA just

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Speaker 2: rigged the Italian election. We had to do it because

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Speaker 2: the Communist one maybe there'd never be another election in

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Speaker 2: Italy again.

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Speaker 3: But it's really effective. Guys.

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Speaker 2: We need a department of dirty tricks to be able

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Speaker 2: to do this around the world. And it's essentially a

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Speaker 2: new social contract we're constructing with the American people, because

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Speaker 2: this is not the way we've conducted diplomacy before. But

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Speaker 2: we are now forbidden from using the War Department. In

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Speaker 2: nineteen forty eight, they also renamed the War Department to

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Speaker 2: the Defense Department.

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Speaker 3: So again as part of.

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Speaker 2: This diplomatic onslaught for political control rather than it looking

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Speaker 2: like it's overt military control. But essentially what ended up

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Speaker 2: happening there is we created this foreign domestic firewall. We

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Speaker 2: said that we have a department of dirty tricks, to

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Speaker 2: be able to rig elections, to be able to control media,

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Speaker 2: to be able to meddle in the internal affairs of

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Speaker 2: every other plot of dirt in the country. But this

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Speaker 2: sort of sacred dirt on which the American homeland sits.

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Speaker 3: They are not allowed to operate there.

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Speaker 2: The State Department, the Defense Department, and the CIA are

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Speaker 2: all expressly forbidden from operating on US soil.

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Speaker 3: This is so far from the case, it's not even funny.

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Speaker 2: But that's because of a number of laundering tricks that

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Speaker 2: they've developed over seventy years of doing this. But essentially,

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Speaker 2: there was no moral quandary at first with respect to

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Speaker 2: the creation of the censorship industry when it started out

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Speaker 2: in Germany and in Lithuania and Latvia and Estonia, and

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Speaker 2: in Sweden and Finland. There began to be a more

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Speaker 2: diplomatic debate about it after Brexit, and then it became

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Speaker 2: full throttle when Trump was elected, and what little resistance

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Speaker 2: there was was washed over by the rise and saturation

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Speaker 2: of Russia Gate, which basically allowed them to not have

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Speaker 2: to deal with the moral ambiguities of censoring your own people,

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Speaker 2: because if Trump was a Russian asset, you no longer

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Speaker 2: really had a traditional free speech issue. It was a

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Speaker 2: national security issue. It was only after Russia Gate died

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Speaker 2: in July twenty nineteen, when Robert m Are basically choked

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Speaker 2: on the stand for three hours and revealed he had

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Speaker 2: absolutely nothing after two and a half years of investigation,

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Speaker 2: that the foreign to domestic switcheroo took place, where they

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Speaker 2: took all of this censorship architecture spanning DHS, the FBI,

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Speaker 2: the CIA, the DoD, the DOJ, and then the thousands

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Speaker 2: of government funded NGO and private sector mercenary firms were

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Speaker 2: all basically transited from a foreign focus, from a foreign predicate,

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Speaker 2: a Russian disinformation predicate, to a democracy predicate by saying

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Speaker 2: that disinformation is not just a threat when it comes

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Speaker 2: from the Russians, it's actually an intrinsic threat to democracy itself,

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Speaker 2: and so by that they were able to wander the

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Speaker 2: entire democracy promotion regime change toolkit just in time for

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Speaker 2: the twenty twenty election.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's almost beyond belief that this has happened.

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Speaker 1: I mean, my own father worked for the US government

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Speaker 1: in this business, in the information war against the Soviet

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Speaker 1: Union and was a big part of that. And the

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Speaker 1: idea that any of those tools would be turned against

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Speaker 1: American citizens by the US government was I think, I

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Speaker 1: want to think was absolutely unthinkable in say nineteen eighty eight.

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Speaker 1: And you're saying that it's there really hasn't been anyone

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Speaker 1: who's raised objections, and it's just it's absolutely turned inward

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Speaker 1: to manipulate and rig our own elections as we would

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Speaker 1: in say Latvia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, as soon as the democracy predicate was established,

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Speaker 2: you had this professional class of professional regime change artists

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Speaker 2: and operatives. That is the same people who argued that,

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Speaker 2: you know, we need to bring democracy to Yugoslavia to

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Speaker 2: get and that's the predicate for getting rid of you know,

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Speaker 2: Melosovich or any any other country around the world where

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Speaker 2: we basically overthrow governments in order to preserve democracy.

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Speaker 3: Well, if the democracy threat.

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Speaker 2: Is homegrown now, then that becomes you know, then suddenly

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Speaker 2: these people all have new jobs moving on the on

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Speaker 2: the US side. And I can go through a million

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Speaker 2: examples of that. But one thing on what you just mentioned,

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Speaker 2: which is that you know, from their perspective, they just

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Speaker 2: weren't ready for the Internet. Twenty sixteen was really the

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Speaker 2: first time that social media had reached such maturity that

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Speaker 2: it began to eclipse legacy media. I mean, this was

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Speaker 2: a long time coming. I think folks saw this building

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Speaker 2: from two thousand and six through twenty sixteen. Internet one

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Speaker 2: point zero didn't even have social media. From nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: one to two thousand and four, there was no social

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Speaker 2: media at all. Two thousand and four, Facebook came out,

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Speaker 2: two thousand and five, Twitter, two thousand and six, YouTube

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Speaker 2: two thousand and seven, the smartphone and so and in

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Speaker 2: that initial period of social media, nobody was getting subscriberships

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Speaker 2: at the level where they actually competed with legacy news media.

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Speaker 2: But over the course of being you know, so initially,

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Speaker 2: even these dissonant voices within the US, even though they

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Speaker 2: may have been loud in moments, they never reached thirty

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Speaker 2: million followers. They never reached a billion impressions a year

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Speaker 2: type thing, as a uncensored, mature ecosystem allowed citizen journalists

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Speaker 2: and independent voices to be able to outcompete legacy news media.

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Speaker 2: This induced a massive crisis both in our military and

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Speaker 2: in our.

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Speaker 3: State Department and intelligence services.

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Speaker 2: I get a great example of this in twenty nineteen

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Speaker 2: meeting of the German Marshal Fund, which is, you know,

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Speaker 2: an institution that goes back to the US basically, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to say bribe, but the essentially the soft

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Speaker 2: power economic soft power projection in Europe as part of

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Speaker 2: the reconstruction of European governments after World War Two to

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Speaker 2: be able to essentially pay them with Marshal Fund dollars

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Speaker 2: and then in return they basically were under our thumb

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Speaker 2: in terms of how they reconstructed. But the German Marshall

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Speaker 2: Fund held a meeting in twent nineteen. They held a

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Speaker 2: million of these frankly, but where they were A four

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Speaker 2: star general got up on the panel and said that

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Speaker 2: the what happens He posed the question what happens to

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Speaker 2: the US military, what happens to the national security state

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Speaker 2: when The New York Times is reduced to a medium

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Speaker 2: sized Facebook page? And he posed this thought experiment as

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Speaker 2: an example of we've had these gatekeepers, We've had these

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Speaker 2: bumper cars on democracy in.

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Speaker 3: The form of a.

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Speaker 2: Century old relationship with legacy media institutions. I mean, our

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Speaker 2: mainstream media is not in any shape or form, even

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Speaker 2: from its outset, independent from the National Security State, from

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Speaker 2: the State.

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Speaker 3: Department, from the War Department. You know, you had the.

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Speaker 2: Initial all of the initial broadcast news companies NBC, ABC,

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Speaker 2: and CBS were all created by Office of War Information

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Speaker 2: bet from the War Department's effort in World War Two.

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Speaker 2: You had these Operation Mockingbird relationships from the nineteen fifties

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Speaker 2: to the nineteen seventies. Those continued through the use of

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Speaker 2: the National Endama for Democracy and the privatization of intelligence

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Speaker 2: capacities in the nineteen eighties under Reagan. There's all sorts

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Speaker 2: of CIA reading room memos you can read even on

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Speaker 2: CIA dot gov about those continued media relations throughout the

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Speaker 2: nineteen nineties. And so you always had this backdoor relationship

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Speaker 2: between the Washington Posts, the New York Times, and all

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Speaker 2: of the major broadcast media corporations. By the way, you know,

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Speaker 2: Rupert Murdoch and Fox are part of this as well.

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Speaker 2: You know, Rupert Murdoch was actually part of the National

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Speaker 2: Endowment for Democracy coalition in nineteen eighty three, when it

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Speaker 2: was formed as a way to do CIA operations in

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Speaker 2: an above board way after the Democrats were so ticked

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Speaker 2: off at the CIA for manipulating student movements in the

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventies. But essentially, there was no CIA intermediary to

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Speaker 2: random citizen journalist accounts. There was no Pentagon backstop. You

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Speaker 2: couldn't get a story killed, you couldn't have this favors

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Speaker 2: for favors relationship. You couldn't promise access to some random

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Speaker 2: person with seven hundred thousand followers who's got an opinion

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Speaker 2: on Syrian gas. And so this induced and this was

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Speaker 2: not a problem for the initial period of social media

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Speaker 2: from twenty sixty to twenty fourteen, because there were never

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Speaker 2: dissioning groups that were big enough to be able to

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Speaker 2: have a mature ecosystem on their own, and all of

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Speaker 2: the victories on social media had gone in the way

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Speaker 2: of where the money was, which was from the State Department,

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Speaker 2: in the Defense Department and the intelligence services. But then

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Speaker 2: as that maturity happened, you now had this situation after

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Speaker 2: the twenty sixteen election where they said, okay, now the

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Speaker 2: entire international order might come Undone. Seventy years of unified

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Speaker 2: foreign policy from Truman until Trump are now about to

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Speaker 2: be broken, and we need the same analog control systems.

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Speaker 2: We had to be able to put bumper cars on

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Speaker 2: bad stories or bad political movements through legacy media relationships

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Speaker 2: and contacts. We now need to establish and consolidate within

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Speaker 2: the social media companies. And the initial predicate for that

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Speaker 2: was Russiagate. But then after Russiagate died and they used

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Speaker 2: a simple democracy promotion predicate, then it gave rise to

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Speaker 2: this multi billion dollar censorship industry that joins together the

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Speaker 2: military industrial complex, the government, the private sector, the civil

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Speaker 2: society organizations, and then this vast cobweb of media allies

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Speaker 2: and professional fact checker groups that serve as this sort

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Speaker 2: of sentinel class that surveys everywhere on the Internet.

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Speaker 1: So, can you give us and thank you again for

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Speaker 1: this almost unbelievable explanation of why this is happening. Can

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Speaker 1: you give us an example of how it happens how

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Speaker 1: just and just pick one among I know countless examples

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Speaker 1: of how the national security state lies to the population,

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Speaker 1: censors the truth in real life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, we have this State Department outfit

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Speaker 2: called the Global Engagement Center, which was created by a

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Speaker 2: guy named Rick Stengele, who described himself as Obama's propagandistan chief.

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Speaker 2: He was the under Secretary for Public Affairs, which is

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Speaker 2: essentially the relation, which is the liaison office role between

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Speaker 2: the State Department and the mainstream media. So this is

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Speaker 2: basically the exact nexus where government talking points about war

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Speaker 2: or about diplomacy or state craft get synchronized with mainstream media.

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Speaker 1: And mean, I add somebody to that as someone I know,

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Speaker 1: Rick Stengel. He was at one pointed journalist. And Rick

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Speaker 1: Stengel has made public arguments against the First Amendment and

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Speaker 1: against free speech and.

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Speaker 2: Somebody, Yeah, wrote a whole book Country and he published

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Speaker 2: an op ed in twenty nineteen. He wrote a whole

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Speaker 2: book on it. And you know, he made the argu

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Speaker 2: meant that that we just you know, went over here

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Speaker 2: that essentially the Constitution was not prepared for the Internet,

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Speaker 2: and we need to get rid of the First Amendment accordingly.

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Speaker 2: And you know, he described himself as a free speech

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Speaker 2: absolutist when he was the managing editor of Time magazine

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Speaker 2: and even when he was in the State Department. Under Obama,

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Speaker 2: he started something called the Global Engagement Center, which was

439
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: the first government censorship operation within the federal government. But

440
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 2: it was foreign facing, so it was okay. Now the time,

441
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 2: they used the homegrown ISIS predicate threat for this, and

442
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 2: so it was very hard to argue against the idea

443
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: of the State Department having this formal coordination partnership with

444
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: every major tech platform in the US because at the

445
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 2: time there were these ISIS attacks that were and we

446
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 2: were told that ISIS was recruiting on Twitter and Facebook,

447
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: and so the Global Engagement Center was a stab essentially

448
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 2: to be a State department entanglement with the social media

449
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 2: companies to basically put bumper cars on their ability to

450
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 2: platform accounts. And one of the things they did is

451
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 2: they created a new technology which is it's called natural

452
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 2: language processing. It is an artificial intelligence machine learning ability

453
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 2: to create meaning out of words in order to map

454
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 2: everything that everyone says on the Internet and create this

455
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: vast topography topography of how communities are organized online, who

456
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 2: the major influences are, what they're talking about, what narratives

457
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: are emerging or trending, and to be able to create

458
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 2: this sort of network graph in order to know who

459
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 2: to target and how information moves through an ecosystem, and

460
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: so they began plotting the language, the prefixes, the suffixes,

461
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 2: the popular terms, the slogans that isis folks were talking

462
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: about on Twitter when Trump won the election in twenty sixteen,

463
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 2: everyone who worked at the State Department was expecting these

464
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 2: promotions to the White House National Security Council under Hilly Clinton,

465
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 2: who I should remind viewers was also Secretary of State

466
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 2: under Obama, actually ran the State Department. But these folks

467
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 2: were all expecting promotions on November eighteenth, No eight, twenty sixteen,

468
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 2: and were unceremoniously put out of jobs by a guy

469
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 2: who was a twenty to one underdog according to The

470
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: New York Times the day of the election. And when

471
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: that happened, these State Department folks took their special set

472
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 2: of skills coercing governments.

473
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 3: For sanctions.

474
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: The State Department led the effort to sanction Russia over

475
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: the Crimea annexation in twenty fourteen.

476
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 3: These State Department.

477
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 2: Diplomats did an international road show to pressure European governments

478
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 2: to pass censorship laws to censor the right wing populist

479
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 2: groups in Europe, and as a boomerang impact to censor

480
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: populist groups who were affiliated in the US. So you

481
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 2: had folks, You had folks who went from the State

482
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 2: Department directly, for example, to the Atlantic Council, which was

483
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 2: which is this major facilitator between the government, between government

484
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 2: to government censorship. The Atlantic Council is a group that

485
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 2: was one of Biden's biggest political backers. They build themselves

486
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: as NATO's think tank, so they represent the political census

487
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 2: of NATO and in many respects, when NATO has civil

488
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 2: society actions that they want to be coordinated to synchronize

489
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: with military action or region, the Atlantic Council essentially is

490
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 2: deployed to consensus build and make that political action happen

491
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: within a region of interest to NATO. Now, the Atlantic

492
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 2: Council is seven CIA directors on its board. A lot

493
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 2: of people don't even know that seven CIA directors are

494
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: still alive, let alone all concentrated on the board of

495
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: a single organization that's kind of the heavyweight in the

496
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 2: censorship industry. They get annual funding from the Department of Defense,

497
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: the State Department, and CIA cut outs like the National

498
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: down for Democracy. The Atlantic Council in January twenty seventeen,

499
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: moved immediately to pressure European governments to pass censorship laws

500
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: to create a transatlantic flank attank on free speech in

501
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 2: exactly the way that Rick Stengel essentially called for to

502
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: have US mimic European censorship laws.

503
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: One of the ways they did this.

504
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 2: Was by getting Germany to pass something called next DG

505
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 2: in August twenty seventeen, which was essentially kicked off the

506
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 2: era of automated.

507
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 3: Censorship in the US.

508
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 2: What next GG required was unless social media platforms wanted

509
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: to pay a fifty four million dollar fine for each

510
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 2: instance of speech each post left up on their platform

511
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: for more than forty eight hours that had been identified

512
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: as hate speech, they would be fined basically into bankruptcy

513
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: when you aggregate fifty four million over tens of thousands

514
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: of posts per day.

515
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 3: And the safe.

516
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 2: Haven around that was if they deployed artificial intelligence based

517
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: censorship technologies, which have been again created by DARPA to

518
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 2: take on isis to be able to scan and ban

519
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: speech automatically. And this gave you know, I call these

520
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: weapons of mass deletion. These are essentially the ability to

521
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 2: censor tens of millions of posts with just a few

522
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 2: lines of code. And the way this is done is

523
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: by aggregating. Basically, the field of censorship science fuses together

524
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: two disparate groups of study, if you will. There's this

525
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: sort of political and social scientists who are these sort

526
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,959
Speaker 2: of thought leaders of what should be censored. And then

527
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: there are the sort of quants, if you will. These

528
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 2: are the programmers, the computational data scientists, computational linguistics. Every university,

529
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 2: there's over sixty universities now who get federal government grants

530
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: to do this censorship, the censorship work and the censorship

531
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: preparation work. Where what they do is they create these

532
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 2: codebooks of the language that people use. The same way

533
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: they did for isis they did this, for example with COVID,

534
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 2: created these COVID lexicons of what dissident groups were saying

535
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: about mandates, about masks, about vaccines, about high profile individuals

536
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: like Tony Fauci or Peter Dashik or any of these

537
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 2: others protected VIP and individuals whose reputations had to be

538
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: protected online, and they created these code books. They broke

539
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 2: things down into narratives. The Atlanta Council, for example, was

540
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 2: a part of this government funded consortium something called the

541
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: Virality Project, which mapped sixty six different narratives that dissidents

542
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 2: were talking about around COVID, everything from COVID origins to

543
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 2: vaccine efficacy, and then they broke down these sixty six

544
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: claims into all the different factual subclaims, and then they

545
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 2: plugged these into these essentially machine learning models to be

546
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: able to have a constant world heat map of what

547
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: everybody was saying about COVID. And whenever something started a

548
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 2: trend that was bad for what the Pentagon wanted or

549
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: was bad for what Tony Fauci wanted, they were able

550
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 2: to take down tens of millions of posts. They did

551
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 2: this in the twenty twenty election with mail in ballots.

552
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: It was this wescute I'm sorry, I just gotta have

553
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: There's so much here and it's so shocking. So you're

554
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: saying the Pentagon, our Pentagon, the US Department of Defense

555
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: censored Americans during the twenty twenty election cycle.

556
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 3: Yes, they did this.

557
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 2: Oh, they did this through the So there's the two

558
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: most censored events in human history, I would argue to

559
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,719
Speaker 2: date are the twenty twenty election and the COVID nineteen pandemic,

560
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 2: and I'll explain how I arrived there. So the twenty

561
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 2: twenty election was determined by mail in ballots, and I'm

562
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,959
Speaker 2: not weighing into the substance of whether mal in ballots

563
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 2: were or were not a legitimate or safe and reliable

564
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: form of voting. That's a completely independent topic from my perspective,

565
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 2: and the censorship issue one. But the censorship of mail

566
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: in ballots is really one of the most extraordinary stories

567
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 2: in our American history. I would argue what happened was

568
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 2: is you had this plot within the Department of Homeland Security.

569
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: Now this gets back to what we were talking about

570
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: with the State Department's Global Engagement Center. You had this

571
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: group within the Atlanta Council and the Foreign Policy Establishment

572
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 2: which began arguing in twenty seventeen for the need for

573
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: a permanent domestic censorship government office to serve as a

574
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 2: quarterback for what they called a whole of society counter Misinformation,

575
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 2: counter Disinformation Alliance. That just means censorship the counter missdisinfo,

576
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: but their whole society model explicitly proposed that we need

577
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,479
Speaker 2: every single asset within society to be mobilized in a

578
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 2: whole of society effort to stop misinformation online.

579
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 3: It was that much of an existential threat to democracy, and.

580
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 2: So they fixated in twenty seventeen that it had to

581
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: be centered within the government because only the government would

582
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 2: have the clout and the coercive threat powers and the

583
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: perceived authority to be able to tell the social media

584
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: companies what to do, to be able to summon an

585
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: a government funded ngosworm, to create that media surround sound,

586
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 2: to be able to arm an astroturfed army of fact checkers,

587
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 2: and to be able to liaise and connect all these

588
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: different censorship industry actors into a cohesive, unified hole. And

589
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 2: the Atlantic Council initially proposed with this blueprint called forward Defense.

590
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 2: It's not offense, it's forward defense.

591
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 3: Guys.

592
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 2: They initially proposed that running this out of the State

593
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: Department's Global Engagement Center because they had so many assets

594
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 2: there who were so effective at censorship under Rick Stengelsteed

595
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 2: and under the Obama administration. But they said, oh, we

596
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 2: were not going to be able to get away with

597
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 2: that because we don't really have a national security predicate

598
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: and it's supposed to be feign facing. We can't really

599
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 2: use that hook unless we have a sort of national

600
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 2: security one. Then they contemplated parking at the CIA, and

601
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 2: they said, well, actually, there's two reasons we can't do that.

602
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 2: The CIA is foreign facing and we can't really establish

603
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 2: a counter intelligence threat to bring it home domestically. Also,

604
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: we're going to need essentially tens of thousands of people

605
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 2: involved in this operation, spanning this whole society model. You

606
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,439
Speaker 2: can't really run a clandestine operation that way. So they said, okay,

607
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 2: well what about the FBI. They said, well, the FBI

608
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 2: would be great, it's domestic. But the problem is that

609
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 2: the FBI is supposed to be the intelligence arm of

610
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: the Justice Department, and what we're dealing with here are

611
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 2: not acts of law breaking. It's basically support for Trump.

612
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 2: Or if left wing populace had risen to power, like

613
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders or Jeremy Corbyn, I have no doubt they

614
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: would have done in the UK, they would have done

615
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 2: the same thing to him.

616
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 3: There.

617
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: They targeted Jeremy Corbyn and other left wing populist NATO

618
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 2: skeptical groups in Europe, but in the US it was

619
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: all Trump. And so essentially what they said is, well,

620
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 2: the only other domestic intelligence equity we have in the

621
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: US besides the FBI is the DHS. So we are

622
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 2: going to essentially take the CIA's power to rig and

623
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 2: bribe foreign media organizations, which is the power they've had

624
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 2: since the day they were born in nineteen forty seven,

625
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: and we're going to combine that with the power with

626
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 2: the domestic jurisdiction of the FBI by putting it at DHS.

627
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 2: So DHS was basically deputized. It was empowered through this

628
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: obscure little cybersecurity agency to have the combined powers that

629
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 2: the CIA has abroad with the jurisdiction of the FBI

630
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 2: at home. And the way they did this, how did

631
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 2: ay and an obscure little cybersecurity agency get this power

632
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 2: was they did a funny little series of switcher rus

633
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 2: So this little thing called SISA. They didn't call it

634
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: the Disinformation Governance Board, they didn't call it the Censorship Agency.

635
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 2: They gave it an obscure little name that no one

636
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 2: would notice, called the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, who

637
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 2: its founder said, we just security. We care about security

638
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: so much, it's in our name. Twice everybody sort of

639
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: closed their eyes and pretended, you know, that's what it was.

640
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: But It was created by active Congress in twenty eighteen

641
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 2: because of the perceived threat that Russia had hacked the

642
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen election, had physically hacked it, and so we

643
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: need we needed this cyber security power to be able

644
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 2: to be able to deal with that, and essentially on

645
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 2: the heels of a CIA memo on January sixth, twenty seventeen,

646
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 2: in a same day DHS executive order on January sixth,

647
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, arguing that Russia had interfered in the twenty

648
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 2: sixteen election, and a DHS mandate saying that elections are

649
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 2: now critical infrastructure. You had this new power within DHS

650
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 2: to say that cybersecurity attacks on elections are now our purview.

651
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 3: And then they did two cute things.

652
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 2: One they said they said miss dis and malinformation online

653
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 2: are a form of cyber security attack. They are a

654
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 2: cyber attack because they are happening online. And they said, well, actually,

655
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 2: Russian disinformation is we're actually protecting democracy and elections.

656
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 3: We don't need a Russian predicate.

657
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 2: After Russia Gate died, So just like that, you had

658
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,720
Speaker 2: this cybersecurity agency be able to legally make the argument

659
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 2: that your wheats about mail in ballots if you undermine

660
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 2: public faith and confidence in them as a legitimate form

661
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 2: of voting. Was now you were now conducting a cyber

662
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 2: attack on US critical infrastructure by articulating misinformation on Twitter,

663
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 2: and just like that.

664
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 3: Now what they did then, is they.

665
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: In other words, to see it complaining about election fraud

666
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: is the same as taking down our paragrid.

667
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 2: Yes, you could literally be on your toilet seat at

668
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 2: nine point thirty on a Thursday night and tweet I

669
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 2: think that mail in ballots are illegitimate, and you were

670
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 2: essentially then caught up in the crosshairs of the Department

671
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 2: of Homeland Security classifying you as conducting a cyber attack

672
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 2: on US critical infrastructure because you were doing misinformation online

673
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 2: in the cyber realm, and misinformation is a cyber attack

674
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 2: on democracy when it undermines public faith and confidence in

675
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 2: our democratic elections, in our democratic institutions.

676
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 3: They end up going far beyond that.

677
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: They would actually define democratic institutions as being another thing

678
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: that was a cyber security attack to undermine and lo

679
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: and behold, the mainstream media is considered a democratic institution

680
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 2: that would come later.

681
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 3: What ended up happening.

682
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 2: Was in the dance of the twenty twenty election and

683
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 2: starting in April of twenty twenty, although this goes back

684
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 2: before you had this essentially never Trump neocon Republican DHS

685
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 2: working with essentially NATO on the national security side and

686
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 2: essentially the DNC.

687
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 3: If you will, to use DHS as.

688
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 2: The launching point for a government coordinated mass censorship campaign

689
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 2: spanning every single social media platform on Earth in order

690
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: to pre censor the ability to dispute the legitimacy of

691
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 2: mail in ballots.

692
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 3: And here's how they did this.

693
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 2: They aggregated four different institutions, Stanford University, the University of Washington,

694
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 2: a company called Graphica, and the Atlanta and a Council. Now,

695
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 2: all four of these institutions, the centers within them were

696
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:10,439
Speaker 2: essentially Pentagon cutouts. You had at the Stanford Airnet Observatory.

697
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 2: It was actually run by Michael McFall. If you know

698
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 2: Michael McFall, he was the US Ambassador.

699
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: To Russia.

700
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 2: Under the Obama administration, and he personally authored a seven

701
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 2: step playbook for how to successfully orchestrate a color revolution,

702
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: that is, and part of that involved maintaining total control

703
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 2: over media and social media, juicing up the civil society outfits,

704
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: calling elections illegitimate in order to remind you all of

705
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,760
Speaker 2: these people were professional Russia gators and professional election delegitimizers

706
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen.

707
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 3: And then I'll get that.

708
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: And second, so Stanford University of the nominally the Stanford

709
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 2: Air Observatory under Michael mcmcfall was run by Alex Damos,

710
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 2: who was formerly a Facebook executive who coordinated with OD

711
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 2: and I and with respect to Russia Gate, you know,

712
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: taking down Russian propaganda at Facebook. So this is another

713
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 2: liaison essentially to the National Security State. And under Alex

714
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 2: Damus at Sanford Air Observatory was Renee Aresta, who started

715
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 2: her career in the CIA and wrote the Senate Intelligence

716
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 2: Committee report on Russian disinformation. And there's a lot more

717
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 2: there that I'll I'll get to another time. But the

718
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 2: next institution was the University of Washington, which is essentially

719
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 2: the Bill Gates University in Seattle, who is headed by

720
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,760
Speaker 2: Kate Starboard, who is basically three generations of military brass

721
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 2: who got our PhD in crisis informatics, essentially doing social

722
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: media surveillance for the Pentagon and getting DARPA funding and

723
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 2: working essentially with the National Security State. Then repurposed to

724
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,439
Speaker 2: take on mail in ballots. The third firm, Graphica, got

725
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 2: seven million dollars in Pentagon grants and got their start

726
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: as part of the Pentagon's Minerva Initiative. Nerve Initiative is

727
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 2: the Psychological Warfare Research Center of the Pentagon. This group

728
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 2: was doing social media spying and narrative mapping for the

729
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: Pentagon until the twenty sixteen election happened.

730
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 3: And then we're repurposed into a partnership with the.

731
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 2: Department of Homeland Security to censor twenty two million Trump

732
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 2: tweets pro Trump tweets about mail in ballots. And then

733
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: the fourth institution, as I mentioned, was the Atlantic Council,

734
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 2: who's got seven CIA directors on the board. So one

735
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 2: after another, it is exactly what Ben Rhodes described during

736
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 2: the Obama era as the blob the foreign policy establishment.

737
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: It's the Defense Department of the State Department or the

738
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: CIA every single time. And of course this was because

739
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 2: they were threatened by Trump's foreign policy. And so while

740
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 2: much of the censorship looks like it's coming domestically, it's

741
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 2: actually by our foreign facing Department of Dirty Trick's Color

742
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: Revolution Blob, who are professional government toddlers who were then

743
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 2: basically descended on the twenty election.

744
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 3: Now they did this.

745
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 2: They explicitly said the head of this Election Integrity Partnership

746
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 2: on tape and my foundation clipped them and it's been

747
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 2: played before Congress and it's a.

748
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 3: Part of the Missouri the Biden lawsuit now. But they

749
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:16,879
Speaker 3: explicitly said on.

750
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 2: Tape that they were set up to do what the

751
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 2: government was banned from doing itself. And then they articulated

752
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 2: a multi step framework in order to coerce all the

753
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 2: tech companies to take censorship actions they set on tape

754
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: the tech companies would not have done but for their pressure,

755
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 2: which involved using threats of government force. Because they were

756
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 2: the deputized arm of the government, they had a formal

757
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: partnership with the DHS, they were able to use DHS's

758
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: proprietary domestic disinformation switchboard to immediately talk to top brass

759
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: at all.

760
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 3: The tech companies for takedowns.

761
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 2: And they bragged on tape about how they got the

762
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 2: tech companies to all systematically adopt a new terms of

763
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 2: service speech violation band called delegitimization, which meant any tweet,

764
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 2: YouTube video, any Facebook post, any TikTok video, any discord posts,

765
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 2: any Twitch video, anything on the Internet that undermined public

766
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 2: faith and confidence in the use of mail in ballots

767
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 2: or early voting drop boxes or ballot tabulation issues on

768
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 2: election day was a prime of fascia terms of service

769
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 2: violation policy under this new delegitimization policy that they only

770
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 2: adopted because of pass through government pressure from the Election

771
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 2: Integrity Partnership, which they bragged about on tape, including the

772
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 2: grid that they used to do this, and simultaneously invoking

773
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 2: threats of government breaking them up or government stopping doing

774
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: favors for the tech companies unless they did this, as

775
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 2: well as inducing crisis pr by working with their media allies.

776
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 2: And they said the government DHS could not do that themselves,

777
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 2: and so they set up this basically constellation of State Department, Pentagon,

778
00:44:55,480 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 2: and IC Networks to run this pre censorship campaign, which

779
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: by their own math had twenty two million tweets on

780
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 2: Twitter alone, and mind you, they just on fifteen platforms.

781
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 2: This is hundreds of millions of posts which were all

782
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 2: scanned and banned or throttled so that they could not

783
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: be amplified, or they existed in a sort of limited

784
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 2: state purgatory or had these frictions affixed to them in

785
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 2: the form of fact checking labels, where you couldn't actually

786
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 2: click through the thing, or you had to it was

787
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 2: an inconvenience to be.

788
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 3: Able to share it. Now.

789
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 2: They did this seven months before the election because at

790
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 2: the time they were worried about the perceived legitimacy of

791
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 2: a Biden victory in the case of a so called

792
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 2: red mirage blue shift event. They knew the only way

793
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 2: that Biden would be able to would win mathematically was

794
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 2: through the disproportionate Democrat use of mail in ballots. They

795
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 2: knew there would be a crisis because it was going

796
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 2: to look extremely weird if Trump looked like he won

797
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 2: by seven states and then three days later it comes

798
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 2: out actually the election switch. I mean, that would put

799
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 2: the election crisis of the Bush Gore election on a

800
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 2: level of steroids that the national security state said, well,

801
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 2: the public will not be prepared for. So what we

802
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 2: need to do is we need to in advance, we

803
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 2: need to presensor the ability to even question the legitimacy

804
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 2: this took out.

805
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: Wait wait, ma, ask you a pause right there, the influences,

806
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: So what you're saying is what you're suggesting is they

807
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: knew the outcome of the election seven months before it

808
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: was held.

809
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 3: It looks very bad, certainly, what's it?

810
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: Yes, Mike, it does look very bad.

811
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 2: You know, and especially when you combine this with the

812
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 2: fact that this is right on the heels of the impeachment,

813
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 2: the Pentagon led CIA led impeachment.

814
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 3: You know, it was Eric.

815
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 2: Cimorella from the CIA, and it was the Vinments from

816
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 2: the Pentagon who led the impeachment of Trump in late

817
00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen over you know, an alleged phone call around

818
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 2: withholding Ukraine aid. This same network, which came straight out

819
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: of the Pentagon Hybrid Warfare military censorship network created after

820
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 2: the first Ukraine Crisis in twenty fourteen, were the lead

821
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 2: architects of the Ukraine impeachment in twenty nineteen and then

822
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 2: essentially came back on steroids as part of the twenty twenty.

823
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 3: Election censorship operation.

824
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 2: But from their perspective, I mean, it certainly looks like

825
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 2: the perfect crime. These were the people DHS at the

826
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 2: time had actually federalized much of the national election.

827
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 3: Administration.

828
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 2: Through this January sixth, twenty seventeen executive order from outgoing Obama,

829
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 2: DHS had jed Johnson, which essentially wrapped all fifty states

830
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 2: up into a formal DHS partnership. So DHS was simultaneously

831
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,439
Speaker 2: in charge of the administration of the election in many

832
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 2: respects and the censorship of anyone who challenged the administration

833
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 2: of the election. This is like, you know, putting essentially

834
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 2: the defendant of a trial as the judge and jury

835
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 2: of the trial.

836
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: But you're not describing democracy. I mean, you're describing a

837
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: country in which democracy is impossible.

838
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 2: What I'm essentially describing as military rule. I mean, this

839
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 2: is I mean, what's happened with the rise of the

840
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 2: censorship industry is a total inversion of the idea of

841
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 2: democracy itself. You know, the democracy sort of draws its

842
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 2: legitimacy from the idea that it is rule by consent

843
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 2: of the people of the people being ruled. That is,

844
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: it's not really being ruled by an overlord, because the

845
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 2: government is actually just our will expressed by our consent

846
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 2: with who we vote for. The whole push after the

847
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen election, and after bregsit and after a couple

848
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 2: of other you know, social media run elections that went

849
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 2: the wrong way from what the State Department wanted, Like

850
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 2: the twenty sixteen Philippines election was to completely invert every

851
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 2: thing that we described as being the underpinnings of a

852
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 2: democratic society in order to deal with the threat of

853
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,800
Speaker 2: free speech on the internet. And what they essentially said

854
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 2: is we need to redefine democracy from being about the

855
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 2: will of the voters to being about the sanctity of

856
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:16,720
Speaker 2: democratic institutions.

857
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 3: And who are the democratic institutions.

858
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,840
Speaker 2: Oh, it's US, you know, it's the military, It's NATO,

859
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:26,240
Speaker 2: it's the IMF and the World Bank, it's the mainstream media.

860
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 2: Who it is the NGOs, And of course these NGOs

861
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 2: are largely state department funded or IC funded. It's essentially

862
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:39,919
Speaker 2: all of the elite establishments that were under threat from

863
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 2: the rise of domestic populism that declared their own consensus

864
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 2: to be the new definition of democracy. Because if you

865
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 2: define democracy as being the strength of democratic institutions rather

866
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 2: than a focus on the will of the voters, then

867
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 2: what you're left with is essentially democracy is just the

868
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 2: consensus building architecture with in the within the democratic institutions themselves,

869
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 2: and from their perspective, that takes a lot of work.

870
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean the amount of work these people

871
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,760
Speaker 2: do I mean. For example, we mentioned the Atlantic Council,

872
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 2: which is one of these big coordinating mechanisms for the

873
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 2: oil and gas industry in a region, for the for

874
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 2: the finance and the JP Morgans, and the Black Rocks

875
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 2: in a region, for the NGOs in the region, for

876
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 2: the media in the region, all of these need to

877
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 2: reach a consensus, and that process takes a lot of time.

878
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 2: It takes a lot of work and a lot of negotiation.

879
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 2: From their perspective, that's democracy. Democracy is getting the NGOs

880
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 2: to agree with Black Rock, to agree with the with

881
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 2: the Wall Street journal you know, to agree with the

882
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 2: community and activist groups who are onboarded with respect to

883
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 2: a particular initiative. That is the difficult vote building process.

884
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 2: From their perspective, at the end of the day, a

885
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 2: bunch of you know, populist groups decide that they like

886
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 2: a truck driver who's popular on TikTok more than the

887
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 2: you know, carefully constructed consensus of the NATO military brass Well,

888
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 2: then from their perspective, you know, that is now an

889
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 2: attack on democracy.

890
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 3: And this is what this whole branding effort was.

891
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 2: And of course democracy again has that magic regime change

892
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,399
Speaker 2: predicate where democracy is our magic watchword, to be able

893
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 2: to overthrow governments from the ground up in a sort

894
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 2: of color Revolution style whole of society effort to topple

895
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 2: a democratically elected government from the inside.

896
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:29,720
Speaker 3: For example, as we did in Ukraine.

897
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 2: Victor Yanikovich was democratically elected by the Ukrainian people. Like

898
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 2: him or hate them, I'm not even issuing opinion there.

899
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 2: But the fact is we color revolution am ount of office.

900
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 2: We January sixthem out of office. Actually, to be frank,

901
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: I mean with respect of the you had a state

902
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,240
Speaker 2: department funded right sector thugs and you know, five billion

903
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 2: dollars worth of civil society money pumped into this to

904
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,879
Speaker 2: overthrow a democratically elected government in the name of democracy.

905
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 3: And they took that special set of skills.

906
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 2: Home and now it's here, perhaps potentially to stay. And

907
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:09,320
Speaker 2: this has fundamentally changed the nature of American governance because

908
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 2: of the threat of one small voice becoming popular on

909
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:13,959
Speaker 2: social media.

910
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 1: And me ask a question, So, into that group of

911
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: institutions that you say now define democracy, the NGO's foreign policies, typics,

912
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: et cetera. You included the mainstream media. Now in twenty

913
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:33,720
Speaker 1: twenty one, the NSA broke into my private text apps

914
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: and read them and then leaked them to the New

915
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 1: York Times against me. That just happened again to me

916
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: last week, and I'm wondering how common that is for

917
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 1: the Intel agencies to work with so called mainstream media

918
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: like the New York Times to hurt their opponents.

919
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 2: Well, that is the function of these interstitial government funded

920
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 2: non governmental organizations and tanks like For example, we mentioned

921
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 2: the Atlantic Council, which is you know, NATO's think tank,

922
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 2: but other groups like the Aspen Institute, which draws the

923
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 2: lion's share of its funding from the State Department and.

924
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 3: Other government agencies.

925
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,279
Speaker 2: You know, the Aspen Institute was busted doing the same

926
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 2: thing with the Hunter Biden laptop censorship. You know, you

927
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 2: had this strange situation where the FBI had advanced knowledge

928
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 2: of the pending publication of the Hunter Biden laptop story,

929
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,919
Speaker 2: and then magically, the Aspen Institute, which is run by

930
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 2: essentially former CIA, former NSA, former FBI, and then a

931
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:37,359
Speaker 2: bunch of sort of civil society organizations all hold a

932
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 2: mass stakeholder simulation censorship simulation, a three day conference.

933
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 3: You know, this came out and your roth was there.

934
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 2: This is a big part of the Twitter file leagues,

935
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 2: and it's been mentioned in multiple congressional investigations. But somehow

936
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 2: the Aspen Institute, which is basically an addendum of the

937
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 2: National Security State, got the exact same information that the

938
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 2: National Security State spied on journalists and political figures to obtain,

939
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 2: and not only leaked it, but then basically did a

940
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:17,800
Speaker 2: joint coordinated censorship simulator in September, two months before the election,

941
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,800
Speaker 2: in order, just like with the censorship of mail in ballots,

942
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 2: to be in ready position to presensor anyone online, amplifying Wait,

943
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 2: a second story.

944
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 1: That had not even broken yet, the Aspen Institute. So,

945
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 1: I mean, which is, by the way, I've spent my

946
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: life in Washington's kind of a I mean, Walter Isaacson,

947
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: formally of Time magazine, ran it, former president of CNN.

948
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: I had no idea it was part of the National

949
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 1: Security State, had no idea it's funding came from the

950
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: US government. This is the first time I ever heard that.

951
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 1: But given assuming what you're saying is true, it's a

952
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: little weird that Walter Isaacson left Aspens to write a

953
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 1: biography of Elon Musk strange or yeah.

954
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 3: I'm you know, I don't know. I haven't read that book.

955
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 2: I from what I've heard from people, it's a relatively

956
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,799
Speaker 2: fair treatment. I just total speculation, But I suspect that

957
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 2: Walter Isaacson has struggled with this issue and may not

958
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 2: even firmly fall in one particular place in the sense

959
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 2: that you know, Walter Eisensen did a series of interviews

960
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 2: of Rick Stangele actually with the Atlantic Council in in

961
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 2: other settings, where he interviewed Rick Stangle specifically on the

962
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 2: issue of the need to get rid of the First

963
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 2: Amendment and the threat that free speech on social media

964
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 2: poses to democracy. Now, at the time, I was very concerned.

965
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 2: This was between twenty seventeen and twenty nineteen, when he

966
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,760
Speaker 2: did these Rick Stangle interviews. I was very concerned because

967
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 2: Isaacson expressed what seemed to me to be a highly

968
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 2: sympathetic view about the Rick Stangele, you know, perspective on

969
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 2: killing the First Amendment. Now, he didn't formally endorse that position,

970
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 2: but it left me very skittish Isaacson. But what I

971
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 2: should say is, at the time, I don't think very

972
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 2: many people, In fact, I know virtually nobody in the

973
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: country had any idea how deep the rabbit hole went

974
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 2: when it came to the construction of the censorship industry,

975
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 2: and how deep the tentacles had grown within the military

976
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 2: and the national security state in order to booy and

977
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 2: consolidate it. Much of that, frankly did not even come

978
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 2: to public light until even last year. Frankly, some of

979
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 2: that was galvanized by Elon Musk's acquisition and the Twitter

980
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 2: files and the Republican turnover in the House that allowed

981
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 2: these multiple investigations, the lawsuits like Missouri bu Biden, the

982
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 2: discovery process there, and multiple other things like the Disinformation

983
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 2: Governance Board, who, by the way, the interim head of that,

984
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 2: the head of that, Nina Jankovitz, got her start in

985
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 2: the censorship industry from this exact same clandestine intelligence community

986
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 2: censorship network created after the twenty fourteen PRIMEA situation.

987
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 3: Nina Jenkovitz. When when her name came up in twenty twenty.

988
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 2: Two as part of the Disinformation Disinformation Governance Board, I

989
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 2: almost fell out of my chair because I had been

990
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 2: tracking Nina's network for almost five years at that point.

991
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:13,919
Speaker 3: When her when her.

992
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 2: Name came up as part of the UK intercluster cell

993
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 2: of a busted clandestine operation to sense of the Internet

994
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 2: called the Integrity Initiative, which was created by the UK

995
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 2: Foreign Office and was backed by NATO's Political Affairs Unit

996
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 2: in order to create to carry out this thing that

997
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 2: we talked about at the beginning of this of this dialogue,

998
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 2: the NATO's sort of psychological inoculation and the ability to

999
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 2: kill so called Russian propaganda or rising political groups who

1000
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 2: wanted to maintain energy relations with Russia at a time

1001
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 2: when the US was trying to kill the nord stream

1002
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 2: and other pipeline relationships. Well they did that marine the Peninfrint.

1003
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 2: Nina Jenkovits was a part of this. And then who

1004
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 2: is who is the head of it after Nina Jakovitz

1005
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 2: went down, It was Michael Chertoff, And Michael Chertoff was

1006
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 2: running the Aspen Institute cyber group, and then this and

1007
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 2: the Aspen then goes on to be the censorship simulator

1008
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 2: for the Hunter Biden laptop story. And then two years

1009
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 2: later Chertoff is then the head of the Disinformation Governance

1010
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 2: Board after Nina.

1011
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 3: Is forced to step down.

1012
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, close friends, of.

1013
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 2: Course, Michael Chertoff was the chairman at Bay. Sorry, of course,

1014
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 2: Michael Chertoff was the chairman of the the largest military

1015
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 2: contractor in Europe be a Military.

1016
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: So, Sue, you've blown my mind so many times in

1017
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 1: this conversation that I'm going to need a nap directly

1018
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: after it's done. So I've just got two more questions

1019
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: for you. One short one a little longer. Short one

1020
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,479
Speaker 1: is for people who've made it this far an hour

1021
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: in and want to know more about this topic. And

1022
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 1: by the way, I hope you will come back whenever

1023
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: you have the time to explore different threads of this story.

1024
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 1: But for people who want to do research on their own,

1025
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 1: how can your research on this be found on the internet?

1026
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 3: Sure so.

1027
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 2: Our foundation is Foundation for Freedom Online dot com. We

1028
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 2: publish all manner of reports on every aspect of the

1029
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 2: censorship industry, from what we talked about with the role

1030
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,600
Speaker 2: of the military industrial complex and the national security state

1031
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 2: to what the universities are doing to you know I sometimes.

1032
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 3: Refer to as digital mk ultra. There's just the field of.

1033
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 2: Basically the science of censorship and how and the funding

1034
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 2: of these psychological manipulation methods in order to nudge people

1035
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 2: into different belief systems. As they did with COVID, as

1036
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 2: they did with energy, and every sensitive policy issue is

1037
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 2: what they essentially had an ambition for. But so my

1038
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 2: Foundation for Freedom Online dot com website is one way.

1039
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 2: The other way is just on X. My handle is

1040
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 2: at Mike ben Cyber. I'm very active there and publish

1041
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 2: a lot of long form video and written content on

1042
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 2: all of this. I think it's one of the most

1043
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 2: important issues in the world today.

1044
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: So it certainly is. And so that leads to directly

1045
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 1: and seamlessly to my final question, which is about X.

1046
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: And I'm not just saying this because I post content there,

1047
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 1: but I think objectively it's the last big platform that's

1048
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,959
Speaker 1: free or sort of free or more free. You post

1049
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 1: there too. But you know, we're at the very beginning

1050
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: of an election year with a couple of different wars

1051
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: unfolding simultaneously in twenty twenty four. So do you expect

1052
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: that that platform can stay free for the duration of

1053
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 1: this year.

1054
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 2: It's under an extraordinary an extraordinary amount of pressure, and

1055
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 2: that pressure is going to continue to mount as the

1056
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 2: election approaches. Elon Musk is a very unique individual and

1057
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:44,520
Speaker 2: he has a unique buffer, perhaps when it comes to

1058
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 2: the national Security State, because the National security State is

1059
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 2: actually quite reliant on Elon Musk properties, whether that's for

1060
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 2: the the electrical you know, the sort of the the

1061
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 2: green revolution when it comes to Tesla and the battery

1062
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 2: technology there. When it comes to SpaceX, the State Department

1063
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 2: is hugely dependent on SpaceX because of its unbelievable sort

1064
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,919
Speaker 2: of pioneering and saturating presence in the field of low

1065
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:20,640
Speaker 2: Earth orbit satellites that are basically how our telecom system runs,

1066
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 2: to things like Starlink. There are dependencies that the National

1067
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 2: security State has on Elon Musk. I'm not sure he'd

1068
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 2: have as much room to negotiate if he had become

1069
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 2: the world's richest man selling, you know, at a lemonade stand.

1070
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 2: So there's and if the National security State goes too

1071
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 2: hard on him by invoking something like Scyphius to sort

1072
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 2: of nationalize some of these properties, I think the shockwave

1073
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 2: that it would send to the international investor community would

1074
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 2: be irrecoverable. At a time when we're engaging in great

1075
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 2: power competition, so they're trying to kill, you know, they're

1076
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 2: trying to sort of induce a I think a sort

1077
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 2: of corporate regime change through a series of things involving

1078
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 2: a sort of death by a thousand paper cuts. I

1079
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 2: think there are seven or eight different Justice Department or

1080
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 2: SEC or FTC investigations into Elon Musk properties that all

1081
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 2: started after his acquisition of X. But then what they're

1082
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 2: trying to do right now is what I call the

1083
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 2: Transatlantic flank attack two point zero. You know, we talked

1084
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 2: in this dialogue about how the censorship industry really got

1085
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 2: its start when a bunch of State Department exiles who

1086
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 2: are expecting promotions took their special set of skills in

1087
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:31,439
Speaker 2: coercing European countries to pass sanctions on themselves, to cut

1088
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 2: off their own leg despite themselves in order to pass

1089
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 2: sanctions on Russia. They ran back that same playbook with

1090
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 2: doing a road show for censorship instead for sanctions.

1091
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 3: We are now witnessing Transatlantic flank.

1092
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 2: Attack two point zero, if you will, which is because

1093
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 2: they have lost a lot of their federal government powers

1094
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 2: to do this same censorship operation they've been doing from

1095
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen to twenty twenty two, in part because the

1096
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 2: House has totally turned on them, in part because of

1097
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 2: the media, in part because Missouri Iden, which won a

1098
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 2: slam Dunk case. Actually banning government censorship at the trial

1099
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 2: court and apellate court levels is now between this before

1100
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. They've now moved into two strategies. One

1101
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 2: of them is state level censorship laws. California just passed

1102
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 2: a new law which the censorship industry totally drove from

1103
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 2: start to finish around required They call it Transform Platform

1104
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 2: Accountability and Transparency, which is basically forcing you Elon Musk

1105
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 2: to give over the kind of narrative mapping data that

1106
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 2: these CIA conduits and Pentagon cutouts were using to create

1107
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 2: these weapons of mass deletion, these abilities to just censor

1108
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:42,919
Speaker 2: everything at scale because they had all the internal platform data.

1109
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 2: Elon Musk took that away. They're using state laws like

1110
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:47,480
Speaker 2: this new California law to crack that open. But the

1111
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 2: major threat right now is the threat from Europe with

1112
01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 2: something called the EU Digital Services Act, which was cooked

1113
01:03:56,840 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 2: up in tandem with folks like NewsGuard, which is run

1114
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 2: by which has a board of Michael Hayden, head of

1115
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 2: the CIA. NSA four star General Rick Stangele is on

1116
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 2: that board, you know, from the State Department's propaganda office.

1117
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 2: Tom Ridge is on that board from the Department of

1118
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 2: Homeland Security.

1119
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 3: Oh and Anders faux Grassmusen is on that board.

1120
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 2: He was the General Secretary of NATO under the Obama

1121
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 2: administration see of NATO, the CIA, the NSA four star

1122
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 2: general DHS in the State Department, working with the EU

1123
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 2: to craft the censorship laws that now are the largest

1124
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 2: existential threat to X other than potentially X advertiser boycotts,

1125
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 2: because there is now disinformation is now banned as a

1126
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 2: matter of law in the EU, and the EU is

1127
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 2: a bigger market for X than the US. There's only

1128
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 2: three hundred million some people in the US, there's four

1129
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 2: hundred fifty million in Europe. X is now forced to

1130
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 2: comply with this brand new law that just got ratified

1131
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 2: this year where they either need to forfeit six percent

1132
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 2: of their global annual revenue to the EU to maintain

1133
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 2: operations there, or put in place essentially the kind of

1134
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 2: you know, c I a bumper cars if you will,

1135
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 2: that I've been describing over the course of this in

1136
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 2: order to have an internal mechanism to censor anything that

1137
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 2: the EU, which is just a proxy for NATO, deems

1138
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 2: to be disinformation. And you can bet with sixty five

1139
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 2: elections around the around the Globe this year. You can

1140
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 2: you can predict every single time what they're going to

1141
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:20,919
Speaker 2: define disinformation as.

1142
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 3: So that's the main The main fight.

1143
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 2: Right now is dealing with the transatlantic flank attack from Europe.

1144
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 1: I've said this five times, but that's just one of

1145
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 1: the most remarkable stories I've ever heard, and I'm grateful

1146
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:33,920
Speaker 1: to you for bringing it to us. Mike Ben's executive

1147
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: director of the Foundation for Freedom Online and hope we

1148
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 1: see you again.

1149
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 3: Thanks Tucker,