1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 3 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,319 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for the Man, 4 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: the myth Legend, our super producer, Max, the Surreal Williams, 5 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: the Triple Hey Max. Noel and I had a question 6 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: for you based on our earlier conversation in our two 7 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: part series on potatoes. So potatoes are one of the 8 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: seven things you can eat with a condition? What are 9 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: the other six? 10 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: Frozen? Chicken and uh exclusively, Well, I have to frost. 11 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: I can't have any I can't have any meats that 12 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: are aged like so Noel, when we were at that 13 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 2: lovely steakhouse in the Bahamas, Marcus Sandilson's restaurant, Marcus, you 14 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 2: got the aged one. I got the fresh one, because 15 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: I can't have anything aged. 16 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: Age. 17 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 3: They don't age chicken. Though you can have fresh chicken, 18 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 3: it doesn't have to be frozen. All right, Okay, give 19 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 3: us the last sorry, I good question question. 20 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, and let's see gluten gluten free bread, rice, pain. 21 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 3: I can have pain, pain and sadness. 22 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: Oh and those last two don't count, I think. 23 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 3: And uh, blueberries. 24 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I suspect our producer is freestylied a little bit, 25 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: but we love it. 26 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 3: Definitely. 27 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: Can drink coffee that is nol bread. 28 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: Coffee is is actually a questionable thing, but there is 29 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: some standards. I cannot, I can, I cannot go without 30 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 2: my caffeine. I was off of coffee for six months 31 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 2: at one point, actually gross, horrible. 32 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: Why so that is Noel Brown, none other They called 33 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: me bed bullying for tax purposes. We are thrilled to 34 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: be joined with none other than Salvador Dolli. Uh did I, Noel? 35 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: Did I tell you when I was I was in 36 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: a situation that required me to be in Spain and 37 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 1: I found a museum for Salvador Dolli and they were 38 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: actually selling sketches that the man had made. They were 39 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: quite expensive. I did suspect money laundering. Uh, and thank goodness. 40 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: My girlfriend, well, we still fight about it. She talked 41 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: me off the ledge. She said, how much money do 42 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: podcasters make? Do you really want to buy and original DOLLI? 43 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 3: Well, you know you got to park your money somewhere, 44 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 3: and why not park it in a sketch, a tossed 45 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 3: off sketch? Because as we know, our man Dolli was 46 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 3: nothing if not a capitalist. Oh yes, yeah, yeah, you 47 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 3: know it's funny. I actually found myself in Spain as well. 48 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 3: I went to a I didn't go to a Doli 49 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 3: museum or exhibit, but I went to this really lovely 50 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 3: restaurant called Baboo that was named after his pet Ocelot 51 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 3: and was very Salvador Dali coded in its decor and 52 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 3: was delightful. And we had a lovely waiter who gave 53 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: us all kinds of tips and tricks on places to 54 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 3: go see in Barcelona, and it was fantastic. And yeah, Baboo, 55 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 3: the pet Oscelot. This is an interesting man, Salvador Dolli, 56 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 3: Oh yes. 57 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: Very interested in himself, as we will find. We are 58 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: putting on our ridiculous crime hats to examine one of 59 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: our favorite artists and one of our favorite stories about him. 60 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: Thanks to our research associate Maria, we have learned that 61 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: for a long time at Rikers Island, yes that Riker's Island, 62 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: the jail, there was an original drawing a piece by 63 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: Salvador Dali that hung around in one of the worst 64 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: places in the world for decades. Like people didn't appreciate it. 65 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: They were throwing coffee cups at it. They stuck it 66 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: next to a vending machine. But get this, fellow ridiculous historians. 67 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: This piece was stolen in two thousand and three from 68 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: inside of the walls of one of the country's most 69 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: notorious correctional facilities. So as we're as we're exploring this, 70 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: our three big questions are how did it get there? 71 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: To start with, who stole the painting, who has it now? 72 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: And a little bit of light foreshadowing. We know two 73 00:04:52,440 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: of those answers. So Noel, can you really put us 74 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: in the moment? Maybe take us back to nineteen sixty five? 75 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 3: Boy, could I ever February twenty sixth, to be precise, 76 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 3: a Friday of a morning of a Friday, A morning 77 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 3: of a Friday, on a Friday, which was the name 78 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 3: I think? Yeah, radioheads used to be called on a Friday, 79 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 3: So this could have been where they got their inspiration 80 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 3: for that. Sure, probably not, who knows. Salvador Dali woke 81 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 3: up and he was a little snuffily, a little fluish influence, 82 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 3: was it? Yeah? He wasn't feeling, he wasn't feeling, he 83 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 3: was feeling out of sorts. He was supposed to spend 84 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 3: the afternoon hanging out with prisoners at Rikers Island, like 85 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 3: you do if you're a famous artist. Department of Corrections 86 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 3: Commissioner Anna Moscowitz Cross believe that part of rehabilitating prisoners 87 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 3: should include art, which I fully support and I think 88 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 3: that's great, and theater, which I also fully support. There's 89 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 3: that incredible film Sing Sing that came out recently about 90 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 3: programs in prisons to you know, you know, incorporate the 91 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 3: arts into the day lives of inmates and really really 92 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 3: an interesting history that goes far farther back than one 93 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 3: might think of the arts having a place in the 94 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 3: prison system. So Dolly found himself on her schedule to paint, 95 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 3: to have a little painting sessh with the inmates, ultimately 96 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 3: part of a publicity campaign for art the Art in 97 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 3: Prison program. Dolly was super into it because it would 98 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 3: be a day of himself. It would be Dolly Day 99 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 3: at Rikers and he was all about that whenever he 100 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,679 Speaker 3: could get a chance to be the center of attention. 101 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just I'm because I as you know, guys, 102 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: I am I have the dubious order of being related 103 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: to a sculptor and artist of newe regionally like the 104 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: kind of guy who hangs out with US presidents. And 105 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: he was exactly a Dolly. So this feels very familiar. 106 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: You know, there are so many many people in the 107 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: world where you say, hey, do you want to talk 108 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: about something, and they say, yeah, if it's me, we 109 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: can hang out all day. 110 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 3: So he as the son of a of a relatively 111 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 3: well known opera singer, very very very diva hard same yeah, yeah, 112 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 3: I just loved to hold court. As they say, well, so, yeah, 113 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 3: Dolly was no exception. And in the in the world 114 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 3: of somewhat megalomaniacal artists. 115 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, we we can only imagine without having met Sally ourselves. 116 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: We can only imagine that he probably said, look, I 117 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: have a thing where I can talk about myself. I'm 118 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: going to be cheered and celebrated, kind of like Johnny 119 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: Cash play in Fulsome County or Fulsome Prison Blues in 120 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: a jail. So he thinks he's gonna arrive at the 121 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: island by boat with his wife and as you said, 122 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: his pet asolot baboo, his sweet baboo, his sweet baboo. 123 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: But unfortunately, despite the great appeal to his ego, our 124 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: buddy Salvador has to cancel because he has influenced and 125 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: in place of the actual appearance, he sends along as 126 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: an apology or as a door prize, a huge drawing. 127 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: It is four feet by five feet and it is 128 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: a drawing of Jesus Christ being crucified. 129 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, Dali had a pretty cool period. 130 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 3: Maybe it was throughout his career, but if you look 131 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:46,119 Speaker 3: up religious iconography Salvador Dali, he does some very interesting 132 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 3: spins on some very famous religious imagery that some might 133 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 3: argue border on the sacriligious. I mean you could even 134 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 3: say that, like, for example, the Goudy Church in Barcelona, 135 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 3: the Cigratta Familia is so weird looking and it's depiction 136 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 3: of religious iconography that when you walk through it you 137 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 3: almost like get are, like, Jesu Louise, what does the 138 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 3: Pope think of this? It's like it's a lot. It's 139 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 3: almost like like, you know, Jesus filtered through the lens 140 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 3: of like the Fifth Element or something like that sci fi. Yeah, 141 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 3: I'm sure the Pope nos they finally finished the cigarette Familia. 142 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 3: I believe I was able to tour that place as well, 143 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 3: and it really is like walking through some sort of 144 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 3: hr Giger church. Very very unusual, but similar to the 145 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 3: way Dolly approached religious iconography. So he did send this 146 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 3: painting through after, I believe, just kind of dashing it 147 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 3: off from his hotel room in New York City. 148 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's India ink on paper. It's got a 149 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: small it's got a small bit of other mediums on it. 150 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: And people will call it untitled. Other people call it 151 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: the a Fiction of Christ. Some will call it Christ 152 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: on the Cross. But the important thing is that this 153 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: is a distinct painting. It is far different from his 154 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty one painting Christ of Saint John on the Cross, 155 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: And technically it's a drawing, this one we're talking about. 156 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: You can obviously see Christ of Saint John of the 157 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: Cross anywhere anywhere you find yourself on the internet. Our 158 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: buddy Dolly. He has a personal rap an agent, you 159 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: could think of it that way, named Nico. And Nico 160 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: takes this drawing, this mixed media work to the prison 161 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: to Rikers Island and shares the following message from Salvador 162 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: to the inmates. We'll read it in full. Your artist, 163 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: don't think your life is finished for you with art, 164 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: you have to always feel free. And he had signed 165 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: it himself for the dining room of the prisoner's Rikers Island, SD. 166 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: He misspelled dining. 167 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 3: Oh dear, that's you know what. He's an artist. Maybe 168 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 3: he just was reinventing the word. 169 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure it was great for him, Noel, I'm sure 170 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: it was. For about twenty years. This painting hung, or 171 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: this mixed media art piece, if we're being technical, hung 172 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: in the cafeteria in the mess hoole in nineteen eighty one, 173 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: as we mentioned at the top, and inmate threw a 174 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: coffee cup at it. It broke the stained glass. And 175 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: now it's even more mixed media because now we have 176 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 1: coffee stains on the drawing. They move it away from 177 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: the cafeteria. Same year, Warden named Alexander Jenkins a new guy. 178 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: New Warden. He arrives at Rikers and he says, I 179 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: don't know if this is a real Salvador Dolly drawing 180 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: or if it's a fake. 181 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true, because there weren't any records on the painting, 182 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 3: and for all I know, he said it could have 183 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 3: been an inmates copy of a Dolly. And then it 184 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 3: was subsequently sent out for authentication and appraisal. It came 185 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 3: back with an appraisal of around one hundred thousand dollars, 186 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 3: but the painting's last known appraisal in nineteen eighty five 187 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 3: put its value a little closer to one hundred and 188 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 3: eighty k. 189 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: Pretty good money, right, pretty good money. And the next 190 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: thing our buddy Alexander Jenkins, the new Warden does is 191 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: approve the Dolly piece to be shipped off to a 192 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: Virginia gallery. It's on temporary display in ort exhibit centered 193 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: around prison art. It does return to rikers. It's boxed 194 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 1: up in a storage crate and get this, They hide 195 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: it in the basement and forget about it. It is 196 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: not until years and years later that a prison guard 197 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: sees this in a trash can one day and says, hey, 198 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: that's kind of a cool drawing. I should take this 199 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: out of the trash for sure. 200 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 3: It's probably a good idea, Ben. I want to take 201 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 3: a little moment to just talk about how you know, 202 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 3: Dolly is an early example of the kind of insane 203 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:33,719 Speaker 3: over inflation and kind of influencer nature of the art market, 204 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 3: This personality driven kind of pop art. 205 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: You know, He's like kind of he jumped out of 206 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: the second story window to land in the bushes to 207 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: get attention. 208 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, exactly. He was as much a media personality 209 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 3: as he was a painter and artist, much like Andy 210 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 3: Warhol and his factory, you know, art studio, you know, 211 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 3: during the second half of the twentieth century. So the 212 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 3: fact that there's all the speculation around what is ultimately 213 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 3: kind of a dashed off piece of work is fascinating 214 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 3: to me. And then of course we carry that on 215 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 3: into the modern day with stuff like Banksy and you know, 216 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 3: the wildly speculative nature of art as stores of wealth. 217 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: Check out our Freeport episode. Check out our Money Laundry episodes, 218 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: both available on stuff they don't want you to know, 219 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: all right, So this guy, our anonymous hero of the story, 220 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: this prison guard saves priceless drawing from the trash. They 221 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: rehang it, they frame it, They place it under plexiglass, 222 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: which is much more difficult to break with us frame 223 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: coffee cup and this splash guard. 224 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 3: It is so weird. 225 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: They put it next to a vending machine in the 226 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: lobby of the Eric M. Taylor Detention Center that is 227 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: one of the jails in the overall Rikers complex, And 228 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: I gotta ask you guys this Ma's hopping on this 229 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: as well. UHL, Max. We would obviously all three of 230 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: us love to have something named after us. You know, 231 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: we'd love to have a library, a wing of an 232 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: Ivy League institution. How would you feel about the Nole C. 233 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: Brown Detention Center? 234 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 3: Love it? My legacy solidified. 235 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 2: So there's there's this place in South Carolina where you 236 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 2: get off the highway. 237 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 3: It's like one of these places where it's fishing. Get 238 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 3: off and her weak cass and there. 239 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 2: Is a bridge and it's just like you know, there's 240 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 2: like three signs and there's like the first guys like 241 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 2: named after the road. Second guy is a smaller sign 242 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 2: is named after the bridge. And then there's a third 243 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 2: guy with an even smaller sign. It's like like Noel C. 244 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 3: Brown Sidewalk, Noel Sea Brown's scenic overlook. That's what I'm 245 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 3: hoping for. 246 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: I love the idea as well of UMAX having a 247 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: sign that we could just hang up around interstates that 248 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: says Max Williams presents exactly. 249 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 3: You know, I take it back not seeing it overlook. 250 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 3: I would like the Nole C. Brown rest area. There 251 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 3: we go and bench there we go. 252 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: Please note that at this point the picture of Dolly 253 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: is accompanied by a plaque, and the plaque says, this 254 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: is an original painting or an original work by the 255 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: actual facts. Salvador Dolly, shout out more and vocal bomb. 256 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: This is worth one million US dollars. 257 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 3: Wait a minute, when did that happen? 258 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: That's just what they said. Man, it's art, it's money laundry, 259 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: of course, whatever you believe, whatever you think is worth bait. Also, 260 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: we have to mention that this drawing was originally intended 261 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: as a gift to the unfortunate inmates of rikers, but 262 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: because it is in the life of this detention center, 263 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: the prisoners can no longer see it. 264 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 3: You know, it's so funny too, not to harp on 265 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 3: the whole like art market thing, but that's so interesting 266 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 3: because it is ultimately, you know, the materials are of 267 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 3: very little value. It is all about the name. And 268 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,719 Speaker 3: for something like this, it's not even a matter of like, well, 269 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 3: it took this many hours to make. It's all about 270 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 3: the name of the individual and how famous they were 271 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 3: in the cachet surrounding their kind of cult of personality, 272 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 3: and what someone's willing to pay for it because I've 273 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 3: been kind of getting into like watches and stuff lately 274 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 3: and just fascinated by that market, which can also be 275 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 3: wildly speculative. But certain watches are made of precious materials 276 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 3: that themselves hold value. Not the case for a painting 277 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 3: like this or a drawing like this. More the case 278 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 3: with maybe, like say, a sculpture made of gold or 279 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 3: made of some sort of precious material. But this is 280 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 3: literally just kind of like a very low fig you 281 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 3: know what. 282 00:17:58,119 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: I mean. 283 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 3: Come the f all one afternoon at your hotel because 284 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 3: you have the flu and you don't want to show 285 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 3: up to your career day. That's what happened. 286 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: There's a group of prison employees. For anybody who hasn't 287 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: been in America's infamous incarceration system. There is a hierarchy 288 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: of inmates. So if you are a good boy, if 289 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: you're behaving, you will have the opportunity in theory to 290 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: acquire more responsibilities, right, a little bit more agency. You 291 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: can become an attendee, You can become a guy works 292 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: in the kitchen, right, or a guy who helps out 293 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: with the admin of the place. Shout out Shawshank rediction. 294 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: These prison employees conspire to take this work by Dolly 295 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: during an unscheduled fire drill. They conducted it inside that 296 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: Eric M. Taylor Detention Center, and that's unscheduled. In quotes, 297 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: by the way, yeah, thank you, Maria. Those are very 298 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: snarky quotes, and they are earned. They did a heist 299 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: inside of prison. It's one am, it's March first, it's 300 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: two thousand and three. It's a BS Malarkey fire drill, 301 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: and it is helpful because it clears out anybody who's 302 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: not in on the heist. They have to leave the lobby. 303 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: We've been in fire drills, like when the three of 304 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: us went into the office every day to record or 305 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: to do our jobs. We always knew there was something 306 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: conspiratorial about the fire drill. Did you ever get that 307 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: sneaky message a few minutes before what like. 308 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 3: The inside scoop? Yeah, I don't know. I wasn't on that. 309 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 3: I wasn't not on that email right now. I do 310 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 3: remember though, when we used to work in Buckhead at 311 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 3: the old House stuff Works office, we had a fire 312 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 3: drill one three. We all went outside and everyone was 313 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 3: like given ice cream. It felt very middle school coded. 314 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 3: It was great. It was a field trip. 315 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: Basically, yeah, so these guys do this heist, this field trip. 316 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: Two thousand inmates get locked down and one of the 317 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: co conspirators is a lookout. Another is monitoring the fire drill, 318 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,719 Speaker 1: so we really have two lookouts. And while they're looking 319 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: out the. 320 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 3: Main lookout and then the fire marshal yes, right right, 321 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 3: trust safety monitor. 322 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: Yes, it's our main takeaway. But old, this third person, 323 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: this third individual, this is our hitter. This is our 324 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: heavy mover, this is our operator. This third person removes 325 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: the drawing and replaces it with the help of a 326 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:06,479 Speaker 1: fourth conspirator. They've taken the original drawing by Salvador Dolly 327 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: and they have replaced it with a very temu coded replica. 328 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm trying to get a look at it. We 329 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 3: haven't really described We did a little bit. We described 330 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,199 Speaker 3: the text on it. But boy, oh boy, when I 331 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 3: said when we say dashed off, we mean dashed off, 332 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 3: it is, you know, it is. It's like he's splattered 333 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 3: India ink on it. It's kind of cool. Actually, now 334 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 3: I'm sort of taking it back because there is a 335 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 3: semblance of the shape of Christ in these sort of 336 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 3: Ralph Stedman s ink splatters and then in the center 337 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 3: there is a crown of thorns, and the gauche I believe, 338 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 3: which is the other material that is used, sort of 339 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 3: creates this smudge in the shape of Jesus's head, and 340 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 3: the cross is more just sort of like negative space 341 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 3: that's created by more aush framing the edges of the cross. 342 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: And he's drawing clearly it's inked out like the sketch 343 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: of a cross. It's like seeing a comic book penciler's 344 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: work before polarists get in. 345 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 3: So I could see how one might think it's one 346 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 3: of those things where you hear people say, oh, my 347 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 3: kid could have done that. And if you look at 348 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 3: the other Christ depiction that we mentioned from Dolly Christ 349 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 3: of Saint John on Lacrosse, it is much more in 350 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 3: the style of a classical painting. The dude could paint, 351 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 3: but he also was one of these fascinating sort of 352 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 3: more like I guess proto pop artists that while he 353 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 3: had the training, he also kind of got off on 354 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 3: doing some more bombastic things that he could could get 355 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 3: away with a lot and call it a piece of art. 356 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 3: And this is one of those examples. 357 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: So I imagine it reminds me of Picasso actually, because 358 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: it is a hyper realistic artist in his earlier days 359 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: and then like Colonel Kurtz in a pot, now he 360 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: just went off the deep end. 361 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 3: Funny you should say that, Ben. I was just in 362 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 3: New York City a week or two ago, and I 363 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 3: went to an exhibit at the moment of the work 364 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 3: of Marcel Duchamp, who many of us probably know from 365 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 3: like art class or like, you know, humanities in college. 366 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 3: He was the guy that wrote he signed a toilet 367 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 3: seat as our mutt, and then that was sort of 368 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 3: like the first example of like found object, sort of 369 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 3: super super out there, outrey kind of modern art. But 370 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 3: this exhibit was super cool because it traced his whole 371 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 3: trajectory from his earliest works into the more outlandish kind 372 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 3: of like okay, now I'm just hanging snowshovels from the 373 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 3: ceiling by a piece of rope. His early stuff was 374 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 3: like mega expressionistic kind of landscapes and you know, much 375 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 3: more classically trained looking pieces. So Dolly was much from 376 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 3: that same tradition. So you could see how the inmates 377 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 3: or the folks that we're pulling off this heist might 378 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 3: have looked at this original work and said, ah, we 379 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 3: could do that. I could do that, but they kind 380 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 3: of couldn't because they tried to replace it with a replica, 381 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 3: and even folks on the crew were like, this, this 382 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 3: isn't it. 383 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: This is not on. Yeah, it was. It was not 384 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: the best replica or the best forgery. And again, these 385 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: folks are working with limited materials. So just a few 386 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: hours after they complete the heist, there's a guard who 387 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: is off duty and is you know, pretty much on 388 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: his way home. He's walking through the lobby of this 389 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: tailored detention center. He looks at the Dolly as he 390 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: does every shift because he likes art, and he notices, hey, 391 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: this is different. Here's where they screwed up. So the 392 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: replica is not the same size as the original. It's 393 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: a lot smaller. It is made with oil paint. It 394 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: is on canvas, It is not in a frame, and 395 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: they had literally painted like an impression of a brown 396 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: frame around this drawing, which seemed to this guy childlike. 397 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: It was not mounted, it couldn't be hung correctly. So 398 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: they stole this plexiglass framed mounted piece by Salvador Dolly 399 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: and they literally get this, folks. They stapled up the 400 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: replica click click click click. They just needed enough time 401 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: to get away. 402 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 3: Rose gil Hearn, the Commissioner of the Department of Investigation, said, 403 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 3: of the theft, who knew? Who knew that it might 404 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 3: have been safer left in the cafeteria. 405 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: Right, because that's a more difficult area to heist, right, 406 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: because because more it made square right right, right, Yeah, 407 00:25:54,880 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: it's a common ground. No one initially suspected that the 408 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: inmates were involved, because again, the inmates cannot access the lobby. 409 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: So Rikers who contacts the New York Police Department and 410 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: they start investigating the theft. Originally they're looking at the CEOs, 411 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 1: they're looking at the officials. They might even be staring 412 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: and scance at the warden. They're asking themselves who has 413 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: access to the key to the plexiglass box that protects 414 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: this painting. They do have surveillance cameras, because again this 415 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: is this is the modern day. The surveillance camera pointing 416 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: directly at the work of art is connected to a 417 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: recorder in the warden's office. Yet, mysteriously that video feed 418 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: had cut, It had stopped working overnight. 419 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 3: Shadows that classic mission impossible stuff cut The feed vari 420 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 3: eleven like. 421 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: We can cut the feed, you'll have two minutes to 422 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: get past the lasers. 423 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 3: Exactly lower down from the ceiling and all that. So 424 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 3: we've got some suspects in our little game of clue here. 425 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 3: Benny Nutso, who was the assistant deputy warden aged forty 426 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 3: nine at the time, Mitchell Huckhauser, great name. All these 427 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 3: are great names. Actually, assistant deputy warden aged forty Timothy 428 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 3: Pina I believe or Pena officer aged forty four, and 429 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:29,239 Speaker 3: Gregory Sokol, officer aged thirty eight. So we started to 430 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 3: see some interrogations going down. 431 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, boom boom, boom boom. 432 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 3: So we're talking careful, we're gonna get sued. 433 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: It's okay. I made sure to do it off key. 434 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: We're speaking with Officer Timothy Pena, right, he is a CEO. 435 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: He's been employed at Rikers for sixteen years, so he's 436 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: put his time in. 437 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 3: At the night of the theft, he is working a 438 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 3: graveyard shift, returns home and he is so panicked that 439 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 3: he considers. 440 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: Ending his own life. At least that's what he tells 441 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: investigators later. He said, I felt so desperate I actually 442 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: pointed my firearm to my head instead. I have decided 443 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 1: for you in YPD that I will confess to this crime. 444 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: I will name all my co conspirators, Benny, Mitchell, Gregory, everybody. 445 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: And he says, look, four months before the theft, Benny 446 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: and Mitchell came up to me and they had a 447 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: plan to steal this drawing, and they said, hey, you know, 448 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: you know nobody's gonna notice of fake in its place, weeks, months, 449 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: maybe even nev We're gonna get away with this, and 450 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: Noel to your point, Benny Muzzo would joke often about 451 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: this Salvador Dali painting and exactly the way you did earlier, 452 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: say like it could draw up better than that. 453 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 3: It looks easier than it actually is. You gotta have style, 454 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 3: you gotta have flair, you gotta have that artistic panash. 455 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 3: And your kid may or may not have that, but 456 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 3: it would seem that these conspirators did not have that. 457 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 3: So when these other employees approached Pina, he thought that 458 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 3: they were just having a having a bit of a 459 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 3: josh around. Yeah, laugh, he thought so until he began 460 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 3: to notice that A. Nutso and Hawkhauser were spending a 461 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 3: lot of time case in the joint over there in 462 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,719 Speaker 3: the Taylor Center's lobby where the Dolly was hanging, and 463 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 3: also where Pina himself was stationed. He was the inside guy, right, 464 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 3: He's the inside man at the front entrance's security desk. 465 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 3: He was promised that his cut would be fifty grand 466 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 3: and that Benny and Mitchell would split the rest. 467 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, which sounds like a you know, sounds like a deal, 468 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: I guess, depending on where you are at a life. 469 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: And so Noel, as we're saying, Pinia does make this 470 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: statement to the and he says, yeah, I agreed to it, 471 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 1: but you guys, I feel like I was being bullied. 472 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: And there's some sand to that because Benny, one of 473 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: the only bad bends I've encountered, was his manager. 474 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 3: Oh bad Benny Nutsoty. He was exactly was. He was 475 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 3: his superior officer and was known for bullying behavior and 476 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 3: threats of violence and actual acts of violence in order 477 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 3: to get what he wanted. So it was decided by 478 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 3: the Trio they needed one more member of their crew 479 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 3: to look out and watch the lobby and the small 480 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 3: room that was connected to it. That's when we see 481 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 3: Gregory Sokell, a riker's officer who worked with Peena for 482 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 3: about a decade entering the heist team, the men both 483 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 3: lived in Staten Island and they would often carpool to work. 484 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: It's nice, okay, and it's also helpful, were investigators as 485 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: they unravel the conspiracy of the heist Greg. So let's 486 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: meet him. He is also long toothed in the game. 487 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: He's been working at Rikers for fourteen years. 488 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 3: He is in. 489 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: Charge of the phone coms at the Taylor Center control room, 490 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: and so he is you know, he's already very financially motivated, 491 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: we could say, because he has another side gig where 492 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: he sells real estate on Staten Island. And this is 493 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: this is nuts because okay, our pattern of investigation escalates. 494 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: Pina confesses to the authorities and then they say, okay, man, 495 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: act like nothing is weird. We need you to go 496 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: meet your buddy Greg at the Java Dead on that island. Yeah, 497 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: and we need you to wear a wire and we 498 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: need you to talk him in to confessing. 499 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 3: Scary stuff. No, I mean you know snitch, I mean 500 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 3: have a cell phone already for sure snitches end up 501 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 3: in stitches, uh to get him there. Pena had told 502 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 3: Socol that he felt like the police were already closing 503 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 3: in on them, and he felt like he was going 504 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 3: out of his mind. Socle, it turned out, felt the 505 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 3: exact same way. So here's how the meeting went down. 506 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 3: The men agreed that they'd wish they'd never gotten involved 507 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,479 Speaker 3: in this scheme to begin with, and promised that they 508 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 3: wouldn't rat on that each wouldn't rat on the other, right, Yeah, 509 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 3: of course they'll see how that quickly that last ones 510 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 3: they're separated, and you know, the screws are put to them, 511 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 3: as they say, and Maria are amazing research so shot 512 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 3: on this. One pointed out that at some point she 513 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 3: felt that they all said this exact same thing to 514 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 3: each other. The only one to rat you out is 515 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,719 Speaker 3: you man. So they chatted it out for hours. Pina 516 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 3: confided Socle that he felt like they were brothers. You know, 517 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 3: I would never betray you. There's the Socle confession. Oh yes. 518 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: Sucle gets into his vehicle just before ten pm and 519 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: investigators are waiting to swoop in because they know they 520 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: found the weakest link or the second weakest link. He 521 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: immediately caves, just like Pina, and he says, look, I'll 522 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: talk to you, and Greg says, I only learned of 523 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: this big scheme to steal the work of art by 524 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: Salvador Dolli a few weeks before stuff went down, and 525 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: Pinya had given him a broad rundown of the plan, 526 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 1: literally as they were carpulling to work from Staten Island. 527 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: And the plan was, look, we stage a fire drill, 528 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: we swapped the Dolli with a fake. Don't worry, Benny's 529 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: kid can paint it. Essentially, they would get fifty thousand 530 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: US dollars each, which was a even bigger deal than 531 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 1: it is now. So soapl also starts crying bully. He says, 532 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: I was afraid that Nuso and Holkhauser will retaliate against 533 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 1: me if I don't go along with the plan. I'm 534 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: afraid that they will retaliate against my family if I 535 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 1: cooperate with investigators. But yeah, I'll hang out. I'll wear 536 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: a wire. So they send a second guy in with 537 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 1: a wire and he records again one of the only 538 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: few bad bends in history. Benny Neuso discussing the crime. 539 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: He has all four people talking about the theft on tape. 540 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, seems like a bit of an open and shutcase, 541 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 3: which we're about to get to whether or not it's 542 00:34:52,280 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 3: open and shut TBT. Three men were held at least 543 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 3: partially responsible for the heighst the fourth considered the mastermind 544 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 3: not at all. Hmm, okay, appreciate Pena was sentenced in 545 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 3: Bronx Supreme Court to five years of probation and he 546 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 3: resigned from his job at the Department of Corrections as 547 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 3: part of a plea deal on the third degree grand 548 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 3: larceny charges. Now we have Gregory. 549 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 1: Sokel, and real quick before we get to greg this 550 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: is something that has always been on my mind. I 551 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: didn't really know what larceny is. Larceny is technically a 552 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: crime involving theft or unlawful taking of personal property of 553 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: another individual or a business. So what is grand larceny? 554 00:35:54,719 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 3: That's probably over a certain amount, a grand theft, grand larceny, 555 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 3: et cetera. I always it is a little vague thought. 556 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,919 Speaker 3: What the difference between It's a fun word that larsony is. Yeah, 557 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 3: it is funny. Are you are you a if you're 558 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 3: a person, are you a larcenist? 559 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: Do we call it larsonist? 560 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 3: I don't know. 561 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: So Socle is also Gregory Socle is also charged with larceny, 562 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: second degree grand larceny. He testifies, He sings for a 563 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 1: plea bargain, and he says, look, that guy Tim Peanut 564 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:33,720 Speaker 1: is the one who opened the locks on this plexiglass case. 565 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: And he did it because Benny Nouzo told him to 566 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 1: do so, and then Newso told Greg and Tim to 567 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: remove the original art. But they were anxious, right, They 568 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: had a small time window with this fire drill, so 569 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: they they managed to get it free. They handed it 570 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: to Benny Newso. He left the building, he ghosted, and 571 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: then he returned with this replica. They also did, I 572 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: mean credit where it's due. They also did try to 573 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: replicate the signature and the tagline, so they they were 574 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 1: smart enough cognizant enough to misspell dining. Otherwise they screwed up. 575 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: They really just fumbled the bag. It's like a horrible replica. 576 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,879 Speaker 1: It's like that remember that lady who tried to fix 577 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 1: that painting of the Mona. 578 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,760 Speaker 3: Lisa what but putting a mustache on it. That's also 579 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 3: that's also a Marcel de Champ thing. There was no, 580 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 3: it's not Mona Lisa. It's it was like one of 581 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 3: those talking about it was one of those like religious 582 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 3: fresco things like and she yeah, it was an. 583 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 1: Older lady trying to repair it. 584 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 3: She was trying to repair it, and she made it 585 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 3: look really really goofy. So it's like that level. It 586 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 3: is that level. Yeah, No, it's real, real bad. Having 587 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 3: a hard time finding an image of the forgery, but 588 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,439 Speaker 3: I think the description, you know, we can use our imaginations, 589 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 3: just pick sure something that looks bad, Yeah, based on 590 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 3: something that already you know, arguably wasn't Dolly's best work. 591 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, And they they do get the conspiracy exposed. Our 592 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: two ringleaders are Benny Nuzo and Mitchell Hokhauser. And they 593 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: said to the Assistant district Attorney at the time, Wanda 594 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: Perez Maltinato, that they thought they could maybe get five 595 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: hundred thousand US dollars for the painting. But the ADA 596 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: believes they were trying to sell it for one million. 597 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: So maybe they changed said right, Maybe they tried to 598 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: change their story to lower the number in an attempt 599 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: to get in less trouble. But Mitchell also gets convicted. 600 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: He pleads guilty to one count of second degree attempted 601 00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: grand larceny. He is sentenced to three years in state prison. 602 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 1: And just so you know again, folks, we hope you 603 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: never get jammed up, but you must realize that for 604 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: CEOs or former prison carcerle system employees, actually going to 605 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: prison yourself is very dangerous. 606 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,840 Speaker 3: Kind of a death sentence in many cases. 607 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and part of his job during the heist, Mitchell's 608 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: is to make certain that other guards who are not 609 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: in on the conspiracy stay out of the way, making 610 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: sure they are not in the lobby. Hokhauser Mitchell Hokhauser 611 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: sings against Benny Nuzo and he says, look newso orchestrated 612 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: this whole thing. He told me that he thought it 613 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 1: would be a laugh, It would be funny, the guy said. 614 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: He's the guy who came up with the idea to 615 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: use the fire drill as a diversion and to swap 616 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,280 Speaker 1: out the scheduling for the lobby guards to make sure 617 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: that Tim and Greg are on duty that night. He 618 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:12,280 Speaker 1: took a polaroid of the dolly drawing. That's how someone 619 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: attempted to replicate it. 620 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, they may as well have just been doing it 621 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 3: for memory though, to be honest. 622 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: I mean, we're still looking for a picture of the replica. 623 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: And you know, what's funny that you're bringing that up, though, 624 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: because at this point in history, I bet the replica 625 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 1: itself is a collector's item. 626 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, sort of like the shredded Banksy. 627 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, just so, just so, the night of this theft, 628 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: these four co conspirators they hide the original Dolly painting 629 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:52,320 Speaker 1: in an attic in Brooklyn. They take it to Benny's 630 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: mom's house, which doesn't sound super well thought out. 631 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, and the next day he told his co conspirators 632 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,840 Speaker 3: that he'd destroyed the painting, he'd torn it to pieces. 633 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,799 Speaker 3: Whether that's true or not, no one knows, but it 634 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 3: hasn't been seen since. 635 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: Okay, that's super sketchy because obviously these four guys don't 636 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: trust each other, and obviously this is a bad bet. 637 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:20,800 Speaker 1: I apologize to everyone. Hul Kauser says he thinks Benny 638 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 1: was lying. He thinks Ben had the drawing and decided 639 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 1: not to give it up because then he can cut 640 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 1: his other thieves out of the grift. Is such a 641 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: new it's classic Newso. 642 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 3: Dude, Yeah, real, bully, he was the last person seen 643 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 3: with the Dolly. This is true. Nuso's lawyer, Joseph Takapina, 644 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,760 Speaker 3: focused on minimizing two big things in his defense, Socl's 645 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,240 Speaker 3: secret recording in the locker room and the actual value 646 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 3: of the drawing itself. An acoustics expert testified that the 647 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:58,400 Speaker 3: garbled nature of the recording and the unintelligibility of the 648 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,239 Speaker 3: voices from the locker room conversation locker room talk made 649 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 3: it difficult to identify who was speaking exactly in some sections, 650 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:13,720 Speaker 3: placing doubt about Nuzzo's involvement or level of involvement. Interesting, Okay, 651 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 3: so they're playing the tape because we we had these guys, 652 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:18,880 Speaker 3: we had greg ware and a wire. 653 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,760 Speaker 1: Right, So they're playing the tape of the four people talking, 654 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:27,280 Speaker 1: and it's difficult to discern who is saying what. They also, 655 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,120 Speaker 1: to your point, now, they also argue in this trial 656 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 1: that the DOLLI may not be worth that much. So 657 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 1: Tacopina calls the publisher and chairman emeritus of the Salvador 658 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: Dali Research Center, which is very much a think. It's 659 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,960 Speaker 1: a guy named Alex Rosenberg. He goes to the stand 660 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,799 Speaker 1: and he says, all right, here's how much I think 661 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: this is worth. Prosecutors are not claiming it's worth a 662 00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: million dollars. They're saying two hundred and fifty dollars. And 663 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,239 Speaker 1: it's an interesting threshold here because under the laws of 664 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 1: New York State, anybody convicted of selling property between fifty 665 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 1: thousand to a million dollars can go to prison for 666 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: fifteen years, but less than fifty thousand means a maximum 667 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 1: of seven years in prison. So if you divvy up 668 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,280 Speaker 1: the pie between these four people, right, you can say 669 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 1: that at the top of the trial, each of these 670 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 1: people is facing fifteen years in the whoscal None of 671 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 1: them got that sentence because Rosenberg says again, this is 672 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,960 Speaker 1: the guy from the Salvador Dali Research Center. He says, look, 673 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:49,160 Speaker 1: this is not a painting, it's a drawing. It's in 674 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: bad condition too. It's got water damage. 675 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 3: Cottm stains, someone threw coffee at it. It's all scraped up. 676 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 1: He says, Look, this is maybe I love the guy 677 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: I work for the Dolly Research Center. This one is 678 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 1: at best twenty thousand dollars. 679 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 3: At best, Rosenberg added, the Dolly would have had quite 680 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,959 Speaker 3: a laugh about it all. And I was gonna say, man, 681 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,400 Speaker 3: if he was still living at this time, he would 682 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:15,680 Speaker 3: all have a field day with it. 683 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,319 Speaker 1: He would have gotten involved in the front row. 684 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 3: My gosh, this is exactly the fifteen minutes of fame 685 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 3: kind of you know fiasco that that T Warhol was 686 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 3: talking about. That Dolly would have appreciated it. 687 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 1: The sideway I can see because you know, you and 688 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,640 Speaker 1: I are both related to people of this level of renown, 689 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,800 Speaker 1: and I can one hundred percent see my grandfather, your father, 690 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,040 Speaker 1: or Salvador Dolli at a trial like this, sitting front 691 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:44,440 Speaker 1: row and continually trying to get on the witness stand. 692 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 3: Well, Bennett, I don't know if you know that the 693 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 3: Salvador Dolli was in fact my father. 694 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 1: It's making sense. 695 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean that. Now you can see why 696 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,759 Speaker 3: I wear my mustache this way. It just it just 697 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,360 Speaker 3: comes this way. That's genetic. 698 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:04,719 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, well, congratulations on slipping past the Adolph mustache. 699 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:10,879 Speaker 1: So here is a Shamalan plot. Twist, another one, another one, 700 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 1: twist upon twist. On June fourth, two thousand and four, 701 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 1: Benny Nowso gets away. He is acquitted by a bronx jury, 702 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,879 Speaker 1: and he looks just as stunned as everybody else when 703 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 1: the verdict is handed down. It's like that, uh, that 704 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,960 Speaker 1: climactic moment in law and order copaganda episodes where the 705 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 1: jury says not guilty and he looks around like lottery, Yeah, 706 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 1: but I'm so guilty. Yeah, he's like, oh wow, I 707 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:49,560 Speaker 1: definitely did it. Though. He offers theories to explain what happened, 708 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,239 Speaker 1: what happened, and how he got into the predicament, and 709 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,640 Speaker 1: he said, look, I've been used as a scapegoat. I'm 710 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,040 Speaker 1: as much of a victim as Salvador dot Lee. 711 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:03,759 Speaker 3: He wrangled his way out of another one. 712 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:09,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, little Weasley guy, little slippery fella. His narrative is 713 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 1: that the top brass at rikers forced the other three 714 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:20,240 Speaker 1: co conspirators to make him look guilty. He also says 715 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:25,000 Speaker 1: I don't know where the dolly is. He says someone 716 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:30,000 Speaker 1: else probably stole the original way before we did our 717 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,560 Speaker 1: heist in two thousand and three. Maybe it's in storage, 718 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,359 Speaker 1: maybe the one that they thought they stole, because he's 719 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 1: not saying we thought we stole. Maybe the one they 720 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,720 Speaker 1: thought they stole had been a forgery the entire time, 721 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,719 Speaker 1: So maybe we're replacing forgeries with forgeries. And maybe here 722 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,560 Speaker 1: we take a second to talk about the art loss register. 723 00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,120 Speaker 3: Wow, Ben read my mind. I didn't know about this. 724 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,799 Speaker 3: It's so cool. Go to artloss dot com. It is 725 00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:00,759 Speaker 3: a database, the leading database due diligence provider, as they 726 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,920 Speaker 3: call it for the art market, maintaining the world's largest 727 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 3: private database of stolen art, antiques and collectibles, currently boasting 728 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:15,919 Speaker 3: around seven hundred thousand plus items. Pretty cool. I didn't 729 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:17,759 Speaker 3: know it's existed. I want to do a little bit 730 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:18,839 Speaker 3: of rabbit holing on the site. 731 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 1: We should do an episode on it because it is 732 00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,600 Speaker 1: tremendously important to human civilization, especially considering. 733 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,680 Speaker 3: That things that get looted and the horrible. 734 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,600 Speaker 1: Priceless works of art have been so I'm thinking in 735 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:36,319 Speaker 1: particular of the Holocaust. But we know that there are 736 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:42,040 Speaker 1: private collectors out there right now who have stolen priceless 737 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,160 Speaker 1: works of art and they just keep it on their estates. 738 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,279 Speaker 1: We also know that the officials in New York, the 739 00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:53,720 Speaker 1: authorities still have not recovered this original drawing. Our research 740 00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,239 Speaker 1: associate does want to take a long shot from the 741 00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,000 Speaker 1: hip out in the dark for any one with information. 742 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:05,759 Speaker 1: If you know where this drawing is, you can contact 743 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:10,839 Speaker 1: the Department of Correction Inspector General at two one two 744 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,480 Speaker 1: two six six one nine. 745 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,040 Speaker 3: For sure, and to wrap it up a little bit 746 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,880 Speaker 3: of Where Are They Now? Timothy Penia became a children's 747 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,960 Speaker 3: book author. You love to see that. I'm glad he 748 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:23,759 Speaker 3: was able to get his life back on track, and 749 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,320 Speaker 3: he wrote a fictional book about a young Benjamin Franklin's 750 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 3: encounter with bullies. He must have been inspired by his 751 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:36,960 Speaker 3: relationship with Little Nutso Gregory Sokel maintains a real estate license, 752 00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,680 Speaker 3: and Mitchell Hawkhauser was released from prison in two thousand 753 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,800 Speaker 3: and five and seems to work in property management. Now 754 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:45,720 Speaker 3: what happened with old Denny Knuts? 755 00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:49,800 Speaker 1: Though, oh my gosh, well Benny classic Newso he has 756 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:54,160 Speaker 1: not spoken with his former friends Penia, Socle or Hokhauser 757 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: since they were arrested. This is the story. This is 758 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,080 Speaker 1: active case. So please, if you have come into possession 759 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,680 Speaker 1: like I almost did, of a sketchy Salvador Dolly sketch, 760 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,960 Speaker 1: let us know the numbers two one two, two sixty 761 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,840 Speaker 1: six one nine zero zero. 762 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 3: And if you're looking for a movie to watch this weekend, 763 00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:22,160 Speaker 3: uh check out The Mastermind Kelly reichart film about a 764 00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,520 Speaker 3: I think it's in the sixties, A like the draggled 765 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,520 Speaker 3: kind of what's the word woodworker who had aspirations to 766 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:31,319 Speaker 3: be an artist. He went to art school but kind 767 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,560 Speaker 3: of failed as an artist, and he gets a gang 768 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,040 Speaker 3: of sort of like Massachusetts old old buddies from the 769 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:42,800 Speaker 3: old neighborhood together to pull off an incredibly bumbling art heists. 770 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:44,640 Speaker 3: And it's a little bit of a slow burn, but 771 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:46,520 Speaker 3: I really loved it. It seemed like it was a 772 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:48,839 Speaker 3: little divisive. Some people found it boring, but I really 773 00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:50,640 Speaker 3: think it's great and quite a special movie. 774 00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,200 Speaker 1: So do check it out, and if you would like 775 00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:58,920 Speaker 1: to learn more about the work of the legendary surrealist painter, 776 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,480 Speaker 1: solve it do wor while you're on the internet, folks, 777 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,759 Speaker 1: check out Destino. It's an animated short film that was 778 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,640 Speaker 1: released finally in some version in two thousand and three, 779 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:16,800 Speaker 1: but it started in nineteen forty five, a collaboration between 780 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,520 Speaker 1: Walt Disney and Dolly himself. It's a heck of a ride, 781 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,359 Speaker 1: just like this story. We cannot thank you enough for 782 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,240 Speaker 1: tuning in, but here it goes. Thank you big thanks 783 00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:30,520 Speaker 1: to our research associate Maria Big, Thanks to our super 784 00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:35,920 Speaker 1: producer mister Max Williams, and also our composer. This slap 785 00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,200 Speaker 1: and bop you're hearing is courtesy of Alex Williams, who 786 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:43,360 Speaker 1: I bet is a Dolly guy. I bet Alex loves Dolly. 787 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,640 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, I mean, what's not to love. Also, 788 00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,480 Speaker 3: it's funny if you've ever been to the moment like 789 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,279 Speaker 3: I was talking about. In New York, they have the 790 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,000 Speaker 3: most famous iconic Dolly painting, which is the Melting Clocks, 791 00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,160 Speaker 3: which is actually like the size of a mouse pad. 792 00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,600 Speaker 3: It is incredibly tiny, but it's a really cool thing 793 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:01,640 Speaker 3: to see person. So if you ever make it out there, 794 00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,120 Speaker 3: do check it out. Yeah, huge thanks to Alex Williams 795 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:10,000 Speaker 3: again who composed this theme. Max Williams are long suffering 796 00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:14,520 Speaker 3: producer and research associated. Of course, Maria our research associate 797 00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:15,880 Speaker 3: on this episode. 798 00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,319 Speaker 1: Big big thanks of course to the rude dudes are 799 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:23,360 Speaker 1: ridiculous crime. If you dig us, you'll love them. Aj Bahamas, Jacobs, 800 00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:27,799 Speaker 1: doctor Rachel Big Spinach Lance the world's foremost authority on 801 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:33,520 Speaker 1: underwater explosions. And of course big thanks to all the 802 00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,880 Speaker 1: Bens who are better than Benny News. 803 00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:46,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts 804 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,120 Speaker 3: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 805 00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:51,800 Speaker 3: you listen to your favorite shows.