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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't know stories of things. We simply

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Speaker 1: don't know the answer to. Hello and welcome to Thinking

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Speaker 1: Sideways the podcast. I am Steve, as always joined by Joe,

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Speaker 1: and this week we are bringing you yet another mystery.

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Speaker 1: Well it's kind of what we do. It's super creepy mystery.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say creepy weird. It's a little weird, unlike

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Speaker 1: the kind of mysteries we usually do, which are totally

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Speaker 1: normal all the time. Yeah. Yeah, nothing to see here,

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Speaker 1: nothing to see here, move along please all right, Well,

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Speaker 1: today's story is about the disappearance of snee Huff Philip

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Speaker 1: and it was suggested by Linley on Facebook excellently when

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Speaker 1: this was initially suggested, it's a it's a really intriguing

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Speaker 1: story and really interesting. But I was initially hesitant to

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Speaker 1: to cover this story. Yeah, I mean, we had a

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Speaker 1: conversation as a team and I I actually had a

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Speaker 1: quite a long conversation with the folks on the Facebook group.

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Speaker 1: They they talked to me about it, and eventually they

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Speaker 1: convinced me that it was okay to go ahead and

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Speaker 1: cover it. About nine eleven issues, Well, yeah, that's exactly

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Speaker 1: it is. Because this story does deal with nine eleven,

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Speaker 1: and it's considered one of the you know, one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest tragedies or attacks in this country. Yes, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's something that is still sensitive fourteen years later.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to preface the story by saying that

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Speaker 1: what we're going to talk about deals with nine eleven,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's pretty evolved in the events of September eleven,

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Speaker 1: two thousand one. We're not going to talk talk about

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Speaker 1: that as much. It's just bits of the story that

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Speaker 1: are going to touch on it. So if you're sensitive

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Speaker 1: about it for whatever reason, be aware of that. I

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Speaker 1: don't think our listeners are really all that sensitive, So

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Speaker 1: I think it's going to be it's there are people

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Speaker 1: who were involved that it is still a painful topic

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Speaker 1: to deal with, and so I just want to put

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Speaker 1: that out there. So let's let's go ahead and let's

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Speaker 1: start talking about our story. We're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: Sneah Philip Stee was born in nine in India, and

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Speaker 1: then with her family she moved to the United States.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to study medicine, and so she decided to

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Speaker 1: go to the Chicago School of Medicine and she started

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Speaker 1: there While she was there, she met a young man

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Speaker 1: named Ron Lieberman. She would eventually marry him five years later.

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Speaker 1: After they graduated, both of them land that he was

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Speaker 1: also a school a student at that same schools. He

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Speaker 1: was dreaming to be a doctors wanted to go into medicine.

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Speaker 1: They landed internships both in New York City. Ron had

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Speaker 1: his internship at the Jacoby Medical Center in the Bronx.

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Speaker 1: Snee Hawk got hers at the Cabrini Medical Center. So

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Speaker 1: they they're going to be doctors. They've got They moved

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Speaker 1: to New York. They get an apartment. All is well

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Speaker 1: and good. It sounds like they had a cool apartment

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Speaker 1: to right down the battery. Yeah, pretty sweet. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: know it was. It's a great neighborhood. I did a

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Speaker 1: little I pulled the Joe, I did a little bit

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Speaker 1: of cruising around Google Maps. I know he's rubbing off

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Speaker 1: on us. So we're gonna go ahead and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: start our story. On the afternoon of September two thousand

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Speaker 1: and one, one left four work on that afternoon and

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Speaker 1: Sneehaw she had the day off, So according to what's available,

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Speaker 1: she was in the apartment for most of the day,

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Speaker 1: she had a conversation with her mom online that lasted

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Speaker 1: for two hours. Like Skype or like chatting. It was

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Speaker 1: a messenger. It was a messenger conversation. Yeah, I guess, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it was probably a o LL instant Messenger

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Speaker 1: Microsoft Messenger, since I forget what it would like in

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Speaker 1: those days. I don't know what it was like in

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Speaker 1: those days. I mean, I don't remember. I was. I

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Speaker 1: was a freshman, so I was kind of in the

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Speaker 1: thick of it, and I sometimes I forget. Just the

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Speaker 1: other day, I was thinking, Oh, what was the email

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Speaker 1: address I had before I had Gmail? Wasn't that long

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Speaker 1: ago that Gmail came into existence? Yes? It was. Well,

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Speaker 1: she so she has this, She has this two hour

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Speaker 1: conversation with her ally, and then she apparently decided to

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Speaker 1: go shopping. This is based on charges that are on

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Speaker 1: her husband's American Express card and security footage of her

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Speaker 1: which the security footage was found later. But she went

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Speaker 1: to a Century twenty one, which this particular store was

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Speaker 1: across the street from the World Trade Center. It's not

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Speaker 1: the movie theater, it's it's a it's a store. It's

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Speaker 1: it's a store. Because she she bought like bedding and shoes.

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Speaker 1: I think she bought lingerie to like it's a full

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Speaker 1: one department store. I've never heard of Century twenty one

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Speaker 1: before this, but but yeah, so she she did all

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Speaker 1: of this, and based on the time stamp when she

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Speaker 1: paid for all of her purchases with the American Express,

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Speaker 1: she finished up around six o'clock in the afternoon. Ron

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Speaker 1: her husband, says that he got home that night around midnight.

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Speaker 1: He'd had a long day at work. He gets home,

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Speaker 1: his wife's not there. But based on everything that I've

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Speaker 1: read from him, that wasn't totally out of the ordinary.

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Speaker 1: She was known to go out and then decide to

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Speaker 1: stay with family members, brother or a cousin or somebody

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Speaker 1: is big. It's hard to get around sometimes. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: you know I can go here that's ten blocks away

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Speaker 1: rather than the thirty fifty blocks I gotta go home. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't abnormal. And he has said that, well,

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Speaker 1: I guess that. You know, he got home that night

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Speaker 1: and said, well, I guess that's something we got to

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Speaker 1: talk about again. Because the deal was between the pair

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Speaker 1: that she was supposed to call home and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm staying away brother's house or I'm staying at so

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Speaker 1: and so's house. That makes sense to me. I think

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Speaker 1: that's fair. Yeah. Absolutely. Ron wakes up the next morning, September.

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Speaker 1: His wife's still not home, but he's got an eight

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Speaker 1: o'clock meeting. So he gets up and I think it's

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Speaker 1: six or six thirty. He's got to take the subway

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Speaker 1: to get to work. It's like an hour commune or something,

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Speaker 1: so he's got to go. She's not home. He goes

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Speaker 1: to work. Well, if you know anything about September eleven,

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Speaker 1: as of eight forty six am Eastern Standard time, that's

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Speaker 1: when American Airlines Flight eleven flew into the North Tower

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Speaker 1: of the World Trade Center, And to put it lightly,

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Speaker 1: that's when chaos ensued. I mean things, Yeah, things went

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Speaker 1: crazy after that. Ron he called sneak has several times

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Speaker 1: over the course of the day, but she never answers

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Speaker 1: home at the apartment or calling her cell phone. I

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Speaker 1: can't answer that, he doesn't say. I'm under the impression

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Speaker 1: that he was calling the house because she was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be at home, because she had both the tenth

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Speaker 1: and the eleventh off, so presumably he was expecting her

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Speaker 1: to have gone home. But I don't know that she

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Speaker 1: had a cell phone. Well, you know, she could have

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Speaker 1: been home, she could have had a cell phone. I

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Speaker 1: think the other thing to keep in mind is, because

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Speaker 1: it was September eleven, almost literally everybody in America was

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Speaker 1: calling almost literally anybody they knew in New York or

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Speaker 1: who might be in New York trying to get ahold

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Speaker 1: of them. Lines did get really clogged and did a

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Speaker 1: lot of calls just didn't go through. And if you know,

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Speaker 1: their homeline, they didn't have an answering machine or whatever.

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Speaker 1: He could have tried and tried and tried and not

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Speaker 1: realized that it wasn't connecting quite possibly, you know, or whatever. No, No,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a that's a very valid point. Well let's

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Speaker 1: see what So we're we're into the afternoon of September eleven.

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Speaker 1: He's at work that the hospital had been in huge

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Speaker 1: preparations for all of the wounded that we're going to

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Speaker 1: come in from the World Trade Center, which didn't actually happen.

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Speaker 1: So he gets he takes off from work, and what

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Speaker 1: does he do. He goes to the hospital that she

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Speaker 1: works at, which was on Staten Island, right, Yes it was.

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Speaker 1: And I'm guessing that his idea was that she must

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Speaker 1: have seen what was going on and said I got

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Speaker 1: to get to work, I've got to help. Yeah, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people did that in those professions. Absolutely, there's

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Speaker 1: an interesting not to you know, go too much into

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Speaker 1: the nine eleven situation. But you know Steve Bushemi the actor,

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Speaker 1: he was a firefighter before he was an actor. He

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Speaker 1: worked for the New York Fire Department. And he actually

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Speaker 1: like went back to his old fire station and geared

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Speaker 1: up and went in and was like saving people. That

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Speaker 1: was the thing everybody was doing, right Yea, even if

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Speaker 1: you had no training, you were they were jumping in

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Speaker 1: trying to help with Yeah, there's there were people running

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Speaker 1: and doing everything. Clearly reasonable for him to say, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's a caring person. She probably went to work because

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Speaker 1: she thought that it would be there, except she wasn't there. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So what he then decides, Okay, I'm going home, which

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Speaker 1: is the next logical course of action when you can't

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Speaker 1: find your wife and the city is literally in flames

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Speaker 1: and everything is going crazy. He I think what he

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Speaker 1: did is he he hopped a ride with an ambulance

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Speaker 1: that was heading towards the towers. Traffic was so bad.

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Speaker 1: I think it took him like six hours to get there. No,

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Speaker 1: he somehow managed. I think he burrowed or stole the

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Speaker 1: bike to get the last minute distance there. He gets

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Speaker 1: the apartment building, but he can't get in to the

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Speaker 1: building itself because the electricity is off and the automatic

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Speaker 1: locks on the door locked. So he's, you know, he's

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out what to do. He sees somebody

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Speaker 1: has a candle burning in a window, uses a flashlight,

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Speaker 1: gets their attention, gets that neighbor to open the window,

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Speaker 1: and shouts at him and says, can you go to

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Speaker 1: this apartment, knock on the doors or anybody home. That

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Speaker 1: person goes and nobody's there, comes back to the window

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Speaker 1: and says, nobody's there. At that point, Ron's got no choice.

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Speaker 1: He's got to find somewhere else to stay, and so

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Speaker 1: he went and he stayed with a friend that night.

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Speaker 1: The next morning or the next day, he comes home.

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Speaker 1: This is now the twelfth of September. He can get

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Speaker 1: into the building this time powers back on, So he

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Speaker 1: gets into the building. He goes to his apartment. He

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Speaker 1: walks in and nobody's there, And it's obvious that nobody's

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Speaker 1: been there because the windows had been left open, and

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Speaker 1: the apartment is full of soot, so it would be

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Speaker 1: very obvious somebody's home because there would be footprints. The

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Speaker 1: only footprints in the place are from their cats, two

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Speaker 1: little kittens who were obviously having a high old time

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Speaker 1: in the dust. Apparently they're probably a little hungry the

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Speaker 1: time he got home. Probably, so that is the end

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Speaker 1: of what we know officially about Sneeha. She was seen

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Speaker 1: on the tenth. As of the eleventh, nobody has seen her,

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Speaker 1: and as of the twelveth, we've got confirmation she's not whome.

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Speaker 1: Probably goes without saying. Ron, her husband and her family,

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Speaker 1: they go nuts. They want to find her. They're putting

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Speaker 1: flyers up all over the city. I think they printed

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Speaker 1: five thousand flyers with her name and information and photos

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Speaker 1: on it. They're plastering those all over. But of course

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Speaker 1: those kind of flyers are all over at that time

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Speaker 1: because people are trying to find everybody that they can't locate. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Ron then sees, wait, there's reporters everywhere. I'm gonna go

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Speaker 1: talk to the reporters and I'm going to get their

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Speaker 1: help to get this story out there, to find my wife.

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Speaker 1: Except he quickly discovers that the reporters are not interested

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Speaker 1: as soon as they find out that she went missing

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Speaker 1: on the tenth. So he's kind of frustrated, and he

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Speaker 1: gets a bright idea. He calls snee Hans brother John,

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Speaker 1: and he says, hey, John talked to the reporters, but

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Speaker 1: don't tell him what day she went missing. As a

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Speaker 1: totally off topic aside, what kind of jerk parents are like, Okay, daughter,

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Speaker 1: we're going to name you. See you can beat John. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she had a very traditional name. Come on, guy, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I was wondering about that too. It's possible

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Speaker 1: that he was born in the US, he was younger

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Speaker 1: than her, and then possibly changed his name to John. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what their ages are relative to each other.

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Speaker 1: I know she was born in India. He may have

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Speaker 1: been born in the States. It's hard to say. Or,

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Speaker 1: as Joe said, he may have just gone by John.

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Speaker 1: But sorry this well yeah, I know. But but the

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Speaker 1: thing is, the plan didn't go according to plan, because

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Speaker 1: as soon as John got on camera, he took the

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Speaker 1: story even farther and told the reporters that on the

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Speaker 1: morning of the eleventh, he was on the phone with

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Speaker 1: his sister when American Airlines eleven hit the tower, the

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Speaker 1: North Tower, and she said, I've got to go, I've

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Speaker 1: got to help, which is what a doctor would do.

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Speaker 1: And she hung up, and he said that was the

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Speaker 1: last time that he talked to her. Totally not true.

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Speaker 1: A little bit of embellishment there, but understandable. Genuinely not true, right, genuinely,

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Speaker 1: not just kidding. Well, later on he admitted it was

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Speaker 1: not true. But it backfired so badly it blew up

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Speaker 1: in their faces. Because, of course, the New York Police

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Speaker 1: Department won't do anything. I mean, they're inundated with a

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Speaker 1: whole mass of work to take care of now, but

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Speaker 1: they won't look into it because he said she was

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Speaker 1: she went to the towers. At the time, Ron had

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Speaker 1: filed a missing person's report forcedney Haw. There were nine

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Speaker 1: thousand missing person reports in New York after after everything happened,

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Speaker 1: one there was bad reporting in the police department. They

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Speaker 1: found out multiple people were listed multiple times, all this stuff,

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Speaker 1: and there was a few fraudulent cases of missing person reports,

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Speaker 1: but they didn't do anything because they just presumed that

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Speaker 1: she was in the tower. Yeah, I mean, not only fraudulent,

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Speaker 1: but also, you know, you have all of those people

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Speaker 1: who freak out there, you know, in Oregon and their

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Speaker 1: daughters in New York City, and the towers collapsed, and

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Speaker 1: they couldn't get ahold of her the three times they

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Speaker 1: called on the exact day, within you know, two hours,

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Speaker 1: even though they heard that the phones were jammed and

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Speaker 1: she must be dead somewhere. So she's you know, and

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Speaker 1: it turns out she calls him an hour later and said,

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Speaker 1: my mom, Dad, I'm I'm fine, And they just don't

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Speaker 1: bother to call and get her taken off. Yeah, it's understandable.

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Speaker 1: It's total panic. Oh god, yeah, I mean total panic mode.

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Speaker 1: I get why people do it it, but unfortunately it

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Speaker 1: made things so much harder for the NYPD. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: the family they know or they they believe at this

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Speaker 1: point that Snea is not in the ruins of the

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Speaker 1: North Tower or the South Tower. The family went ahead

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Speaker 1: and they hired a private investigator to try and figure

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Speaker 1: out all of Sneeha's actions on that day. On the

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Speaker 1: day of the tenth, they hired a guy by the

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Speaker 1: name of Ken Gallant. He was formerly of the FBI,

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Speaker 1: and he did he did a ton of legwork and

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Speaker 1: trying to find her, and he did. He found some

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Speaker 1: great stuff, but I was also a little surprised. He

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Speaker 1: recommended to the family who then flew this person in

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Speaker 1: from Pennsylvania a psychic, which question to me, it raised

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a red flag on him. But

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Speaker 1: but what he did find is he was able to

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Speaker 1: track down video footage of her. There are are two

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Speaker 1: different pieces of video of her from that day after

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Speaker 1: she left the apartment, one of which, as we talked

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Speaker 1: about just briefly before, is the video of her century

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Speaker 1: twenty one where she's shopping shot when when she's on

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Speaker 1: the video she's in the coat section trying on different coats.

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Speaker 1: There is also a video from the inside of the

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Speaker 1: apartment building's entry on the elevens not confirmed her right,

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Speaker 1: It is not confirmed her. What it is is the

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Speaker 1: sun is shining through the windows in the entry enough

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Speaker 1: that is bleaching out. According to what they what Gallant

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Speaker 1: and Ron are saying, to the point that they can't

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Speaker 1: get a lot of details. They see a woman. She's

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Speaker 1: got the same hairstyle, about the same build, appears to

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Speaker 1: be wearing kind of the same outfit, and has the

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Speaker 1: same mannerisms as Sneak huh, but they can't confirm arm that.

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Speaker 1: But this person, this woman walks up to the elevator,

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Speaker 1: pushes the button, waits a minute, and then turns around

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Speaker 1: and walks out of the building. The time stamp on

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Speaker 1: that video roughly corresponds to when the North Tower was hit,

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Speaker 1: So it's in a way it supports the idea that

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Speaker 1: she ran to the tower after everything happened. Yeah, except

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Speaker 1: it wasn't necessarily her because she wasn't carrying any bags

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Speaker 1: where she should have been carrying bags, So she she

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Speaker 1: still hadn't brought home all the stuff that she thought.

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Speaker 1: That is true if she had come straight from the store,

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Speaker 1: but we're talking well plus hours later, she might have

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Speaker 1: left them somewhere. I totally get where you're going with that, Joe,

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Speaker 1: Is that there's this piece where if she bought all

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Speaker 1: this stuff at Century one, where's it at? And this

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Speaker 1: person theoretically should be carrying those same articles that were

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Speaker 1: purchased thing. Well, unless you know, she was kind of

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Speaker 1: she was a young woman, right, she was in her twenties.

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Speaker 1: She was thirty one, I believe. Yeah, so you know,

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Speaker 1: you go out because she would have gone out right

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Speaker 1: if she had stayed at somebody's house. She probably was

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Speaker 1: out late. So you go out, you wake up next morning,

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Speaker 1: you're kind of hungover, and you just stay to your

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Speaker 1: brother or a friend who you see all the time.

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Speaker 1: You say, I'm gonna go home. You just I'll get

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Speaker 1: this stuff later from you next time I see you

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Speaker 1: or whatever. I'm just gonna walk home, try and clear

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Speaker 1: my mind or whatever. You make it back to your

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Speaker 1: apartment and you don't have bags. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: that's totally reasonable. That's entirely plausible. Or maybe she was

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Speaker 1: buying it for a gift, or you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of reasons she could not have that stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And as as far as her turning and leaving about

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Speaker 1: one that the plane hit the tower, it doesn't. That

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Speaker 1: also doesn't really point towards it being see how either,

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Speaker 1: But anybody, anybody hearing that, yeah, enormous noise would go

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Speaker 1: outside to see what it was. Yes, And so if

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Speaker 1: she hears that a normal stoys and she goes outside,

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Speaker 1: she sees what, gets an idea what's going on. Based

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Speaker 1: on her training, we can presume that she would have

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Speaker 1: run to assist. It seems like though that the investigator

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Speaker 1: and Ron how large a apartment complex. Are we talking

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Speaker 1: like thousands of people? Hundreds of people? Do you know?

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Speaker 1: It seems like the sort of thing you would circulate

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Speaker 1: and say, hey, is this you to rule other people out?

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Speaker 1: Here's here's the odd bit. The odd bit is that

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Speaker 1: the p I did all of his work and he

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Speaker 1: gave a report to Ron. Ron won't release that report.

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Speaker 1: So this this this footage of this woman in the

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Speaker 1: entry I I can't nobody's seen it. You can't see

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Speaker 1: the video, you can't see stills from it because he's

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Speaker 1: kind of under lock and key. It's that's odd because

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Speaker 1: it's not like he owns it. He paid for it,

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Speaker 1: so he still doesn't own it. Well, he doesn't own

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Speaker 1: the footage, but I'm sure that by the time all

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Speaker 1: this came out to the apartment building probably didn't have

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Speaker 1: the footage anymore. But again, this is another thing that

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Speaker 1: I'm going to call out as a red flag. This

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Speaker 1: stands out to me is a really odd bit of information. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there there must have been something kind of bad in

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Speaker 1: that report. If he didn't want to release it would

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Speaker 1: lead me to think that, ye, let's let's keep moving

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Speaker 1: on down with the events were still moving kind of

350
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Speaker 1: a chronological order of what goes on with the story. Initially,

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Speaker 1: Snea was listed as one of the victims of the

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Speaker 1: World Trade Center collapse. There was, but because there was

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Speaker 1: no evidence to substantiate that in terms of nobody could

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Speaker 1: physically say they saw her go there and they didn't

355
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Speaker 1: find a body, she was removed from that list in

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Speaker 1: January of two thousand and four, and the law in

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Speaker 1: New York says that the date of a person's death

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Speaker 1: will be set at three is from the last time

359
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: they were seen alive when they go missing, which means

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Speaker 1: that officially, after she had been removed from the list,

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Speaker 1: her date of having died was September two thousand and four.

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Speaker 1: Ron appealed the decision. He tried to keep her on

363
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Speaker 1: the list, but there was another judge denied that appeal

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Speaker 1: in November of two thousand and five. That prevented him

365
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Speaker 1: from having access to the Victims Compensation Fund, which had

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Speaker 1: been set up to help people whose family members had

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Speaker 1: been killed, you know, for from a financial perspective. According

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Speaker 1: to to Ron, he wanted access to that fund because

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Speaker 1: he wanted to set up a memorial fund in his

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Speaker 1: wife's name. Here's the thing, She's a thirty one year

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Speaker 1: old woman who's going to be a doctor, very young,

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Speaker 1: high paid profession He stood together about three to four

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Speaker 1: million dollars. What the heck, I'd do it A happy

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Speaker 1: little chunk of money. That's a yeah, that's a that's

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Speaker 1: a sizeable bit of cash. Um. He never he never

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Speaker 1: got anything out of the victims compens or the Yeah,

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Speaker 1: victims Compensation fund in two thousand eight. A panel of

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Speaker 1: judges overturned the ruling in two thousand and five and

379
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Speaker 1: changed her official date of death back to September eleventh,

380
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Speaker 1: two thousand and one. But by that time, of course,

381
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 1: the fund had long since closed taking applications, so he

382
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 1: couldn't get anything from it. According to Ron, the money

383
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: didn't matter. What he wanted was his wife's name to

384
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Speaker 1: be recognized among the victims. So she is now officially

385
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Speaker 1: listed as one of the two thousand, seven hundred fifty

386
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Speaker 1: three people who died that day, not counting hijackers. This

387
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 1: is this is American citizens overly. Yeah. So so he

388
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: at least got her on that. There's an at the

389
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: memorial her name is listed. It's interesting that he said

390
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: that he just wanted her name on the list, even

391
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: though they got a private investigator and none of them

392
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Speaker 1: really believed that she was in the rebel Initially. I've

393
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 1: said it before and I'm gonna say it again. There's

394
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: a lot of flags in this story. Yeah, a lot

395
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: of things that I have to raise an eyebrow, and

396
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: I I have I had a listed home as I

397
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: was going through my research, like, wait, that didn't get

398
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: checked off? That didn't get checked off? This is circled

399
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 1: in red mark er. What's going on here? But we're

400
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: now going to take a bit of a turn in

401
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: our story. Okay, yep. So officially, the NYPD they think

402
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: that she died in the towers collapse kind of, after

403
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: everything settles down, they do their own investigation. The NYPD

404
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: in their investigation, they per sended some details about snee

405
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: Haw that aren't flattering, and her family does not like

406
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 1: and they constantly, constantly are denying and putting down. According

407
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: to the NYPD, she had a drinking problem and she

408
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 1: possibly was leading a double life. What's what's a drinking problem? Though?

409
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: I just I mean that sincerely. I mean that, for instance,

410
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Speaker 1: a woman of my age, technically, if you consume three

411
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: or more alcoholic beverages, a week, you over consume alcohol. Yeah,

412
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Speaker 1: I don't know a single person who drinks that's my

413
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: age that drinks that little. I just don't, you know,

414
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Speaker 1: And so I think it's be totally reasonable if I

415
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: went missing for some reason that, you know, the Portland

416
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: police could say, well, she did have a drinking problem,

417
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: because I drink way more than that, you know. So

418
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: I don't know. When they say things like that, I

419
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 1: have a hard time. I usually take it with a

420
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: pretty huge grain of salt because if they're like, well,

421
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: she was at the bar four times a week and

422
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 1: had a two shots every night, you know, like, well, okay,

423
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: that's people can do that and be totally reasonably healthy.

424
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: That it's very funny that you say that, because I've

425
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: I've always thought my fiance drinks cider or you know,

426
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 1: mixed drinks, but she'll have one or two a week.

427
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: And it always was weird to me when I would

428
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: go to the fridge and I'd grab a beer and

429
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: I'd say, hey, honey, you want to drink or something.

430
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: She said, no, I'm fine, And at first, well, yeah,

431
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: I got used to it. She doesn't doesn't drink that much.

432
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: But at first I was like, what's this is really weird.

433
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: I am not going to be really that funny if

434
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: you don't have any more to drink. Yeah, yeah, no,

435
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 1: I mean but I think that that's one of the

436
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: things we talked about that sometimes where people say or

437
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: the you know, investigation reveals quote unquote that this person

438
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: had a drinking problem, and I always just kind of

439
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: want to take that with a huge grain of salt.

440
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: Although it does appear that her drinking actually interfered with

441
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: their job at Cabrini. Yeah, well, we'll get into that,

442
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: but I just wanted to mention that for future past

443
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: and current mysteries. Yes, absolutely, good point the NYPD, this

444
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: is this is what one of the things that they're

445
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: using in their investigation to say that she's got that

446
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: problem that we're just talking about is she was told

447
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: in early two thousand and one that her contract her

448
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: internship with Cabrini would not be would not be renewed,

449
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: and the reasons were for tardiness and alcohol related issues. Okay,

450
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: that's fair, all right, Yeah, that that does lead you

451
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: to think maybe there is something going on. Now. She

452
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: did land their job, she got she got another internship

453
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: in internal medicine at St. Vincent's medical Center which was

454
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: on Staten Island, which is what Joe was kind of

455
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,959
Speaker 1: talking about briefly earlier. She does seem like she was smart,

456
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,479
Speaker 1: She had it together. She was a minority female, so

457
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm honest to god facts. Well, you know,

458
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: I don't want to sound racist, but Indians are pretty

459
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: damned smart. She seemed to be very intelligent. Regardless of

460
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 1: her race or sex, she seemed to be intelligent. She

461
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 1: never had anything in her work reviews that I can

462
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: find saying that she did a poor job, other than

463
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: she had some personal issues, which, let's be honest, who

464
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: doesn't have personal issues? Yeah, but not all of us

465
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: bring it to work. Oh wait, are you saying I'm

466
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: bringing something to the podcast? Up? Crap? All right, Well,

467
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: we'll talk about my liquorice addiction later. Um. Not long

468
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: after she was let go from Cabrini let go, or

469
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: told she wasn't going to be renewed. I'm guessing it's

470
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: after she was no longer there. Read into that. How

471
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: are you want to after she was after she was

472
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: no longer there, she got into a bar fight or

473
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: a fight in a bar, I should say, admitted spending

474
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: the night in jail, which again we've kind of we've

475
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: rationalized a few things so far, so let's rationalize this.

476
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: Who hasn't found out they were getting fired or gotten

477
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: fired and said I'm going to the bar and I'm

478
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: drowning to my sorrows in a glass or seven? Who

479
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: hasn't done that? Why are you too looking at me

480
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: like that? I've never been fired been fired, So yeah,

481
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: I know it's not it's not a it's not a

482
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: good feeling. I'm young's there's still time. I've had very

483
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: few jobs that I quit, but I've had a lot

484
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: of jobs. Okay, well, we're gonna continue on with the

485
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: damning evidence here. Snee Hall also claimed that one night

486
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: while out with co workers, this is again out at

487
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: a bar, and I can't pin down whether what the

488
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: sex of this coworker is, but one of her coworkers

489
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: grabbed her inappropriately. I don't know what that means. Whether

490
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: it was a smack on the bottom or a grab

491
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: on the chest or attempt to kiss, I don't know.

492
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: In fairness, it shouldn't matter, but it does apparently in

493
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: this day and age, Yes it does. If somebody says

494
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: this person touched me inappropriately. That means that they felt

495
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: violated and it should be taken and reported as such.

496
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's just my opinion. Man, I don't I'm

497
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: not sure that I would go actually go to the

498
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: police and and try to get the data to bring

499
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: charges against somebody who produced, which is what she did.

500
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: I guess I might if it were a thing that

501
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: had been happening a lot of time, you know, if

502
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: it were reoccurring, if it you know, if this person

503
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: was grabbing me and grabbing me and I kept saying like, hey,

504
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: I'm not into that. Hey I'm not interested. Hey, dude,

505
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: like calm down, back off, or or chick whatever, you know,

506
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: calm down, back off. All right, Seriously, I'm gonna like,

507
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna file a complaint next time. That maybe would

508
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: be the progression. But I would also mention that in

509
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: my report say this has been a pattern of behavior.

510
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say this person touched me one time. But

511
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: did she has there any record that she ever ever

512
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: took the complaint to HR? The only the only record

513
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: that I have found is the report that she officially

514
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: filed with place. Well, you wouldn't report it to HR

515
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: if you were out after hours with co workers. It's

516
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: not a workplace incident at that. But I think what

517
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: Joe is getting at is if it was a workplace

518
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: incident like he like you were talking about, then it

519
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: would have been could it could have just been reoccurring

520
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: outside of the workplace. When you know, you go out

521
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: for drinks with coworker once a week or whatever, and

522
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: this guy or girl is always weird and attempting to

523
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: grab you. You wouldn't mention that to HR, there'd be

524
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: no reason to know. But HR can't do anything. If

525
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: somebody's grabby off the grounds, that's that's outside of their

526
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: their realm. They have no jurisdiction. But so she filed

527
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: this complaint finally she did, and the d a's office,

528
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: after reviewing it, dropped the charge and turned around owned

529
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: and they slapped on her a charge of filing a

530
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: false complaint or false report. And they said, you know,

531
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: if you want to admit that this is not really

532
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: what happened, will drop the charge against you. And she

533
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: stood her ground and said, no, I'm not going to

534
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: do that, and she landed herself in jail for another night.

535
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: That's kind of strange that they would lock up in

536
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: jail for a night because I I don't Again, this

537
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: is one of those things where I can't get a

538
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,239
Speaker 1: hold of the court records and all I've got is

539
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: the family's accounting of it. But the point is, according

540
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: to the NYPD, once that all went down, so we've

541
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: got the night of the inappropriate grab and then she

542
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: gets in trouble for it all. She continued to go

543
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: out and drink, but she started frequency frequenting lesbian bars.

544
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: Makes sense to me, Well, there's I I don't think

545
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: that that really matters much. I mean, her family has said, well,

546
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: of course she went. This is where I get the

547
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: impression that the grabber was a dude. She was going

548
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: and hanging out bars that were full of women because

549
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: there's no guys there to repeat that scenario. But that yeah, yeah, yeah,

550
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: she feels safe around other women, so I'll just hang

551
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: out and drink here. Plus some of the better bars

552
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: in New York or lesbian bars, so you know, yeah, yeah,

553
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: I mean she she went to some they listened them

554
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: off and they seemed to be pretty well known. And

555
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: the report that I was reading never been to any

556
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: of those. I've hung out in lesbian bars. I've hung

557
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: out in gay bars. I mean it not in New York. No, No,

558
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: I would be happy to hang out in any bar

559
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: in New York. I still haven't been to New York.

560
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: I want to go to New York, and I still

561
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: haven't gotten to go to New York and hang out

562
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: for a while. This is the real intervention we're going

563
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: to have after the show out. Maybe we should have

564
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: done this show on location so you have an excuse

565
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: to go to New York. There we go sponsors this

566
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: at this point in our story, if we think back

567
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 1: to when there was that stuff about when she wouldn't

568
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: always come home and she would stay with family members,

569
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: it then comes out that what was happening was that

570
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: stee How was going out and then staying at the

571
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: homes of people that she met in the bar, specifically

572
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: at these gay bars. Ron rationalized it away and said, well, no,

573
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: there was a totally platonic thing. They would hang out

574
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: and talk, they would listen to music all night like

575
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: there was nothing sexual whatsoever going on here. And I

576
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: could see that. But I also have to ask, wait,

577
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: if she's suddenly hanging out, she's having such a good

578
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: time with all of these other women who are also

579
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: into women. Maybe she realizes, wait, I kind of really

580
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: like women. It would also help explain the kind of uh,

581
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, symptoms of almost mental anguish that someone

582
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: might exhibit when they are realizing something large about themselves,

583
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: like perhaps questioning their sexuality. And there was she was

584
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: experiencing depression. Yeah, you know, you know you you maybe

585
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: drink more, you get in fights, you exhibit behavior problems

586
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 1: at work. When you're realizing that this person that you

587
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: thought you were this entire time, you become depressed, you're

588
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 1: no longer the person you thought you were. Particularly coming

589
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: from um an Indian background or a background that may

590
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: be less welcoming of I would just say it's a

591
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: very culturally rigid, I think a rigid um um. Do

592
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: you know what I'm getting out? I can't think of

593
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:52,879
Speaker 1: the words here, but it's like you've got to hold

594
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: certain track. Yeah, of course, moray rigid, thank you. I

595
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: don't think it's quite as bad. It's like say Saudi Arabia.

596
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 1: Oh no, no no. And that's not to say that

597
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: like you know, Indians as a whole, right, It's like

598
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: just like you can't say Americans as a whole. What

599
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 1: some people are and some people aren't. And you know,

600
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: you never know what what background somebody comes from. There's

601
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: there's unfortunately more here. Of course, there's row mud on

602
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 1: on this poor woman. There, this this one. Her family

603
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: has fought tooth and nail and denied and denied, denied.

604
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: But according to the NYPD investigators, her brother John caught

605
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: his sister and his then girlfriend in bed together at

606
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: one point. Well, okay, And the fact that they've denied

607
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 1: it so hard, right, would maybe suggest that they weren't

608
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: okay with her being You know, I think if you

609
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: are a family that's okay with her being gay, you say, well,

610
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: maybe she was, she was, maybe she was experimenting. That

611
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that she disappeared for any you know, other

612
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: kind of reason than she disappeared. Yeah, No, No, it's

613
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: it's you don't ye like that. Well, that's the thing

614
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: is that John has said He's like, uh, yeah, no,

615
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: I never said that. I never actually even talked to

616
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: the investigator who put that on paper. Have they found

617
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: the quote unquote girlfriend at the time. Uh yeah, that's

618
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: the mother of his child and they got married, right, yeah,

619
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: I got married. Did they talk to her again? Seems

620
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: like that'd be a pretty straightforward. This is the frustrating

621
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: part of the story that I've already said before, is

622
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: that so many of the players have been insulated and

623
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: kept away from the media and from people who are

624
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: asking questions. And the one person, the investigator who got

625
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: in there, we can't see what he found. So that

626
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:49,919
Speaker 1: that that that's the part that drives me nuts there. Well,

627
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: maybe it's maybe it's such innocuous stuff, but they're just

628
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 1: so afraid to let anything come out. I don't know.

629
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: I don't either. But regardless the trouble she was having

630
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: when she was at Cabrini, that the tardiness and the

631
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: alcohol related issues that followed her to her new job.

632
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: One of the things that she had to do when

633
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: she was at St. Vincent's she had to meet with

634
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: a substance abuse counselor. She actually got suspended for missing

635
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: an appointment with that counselor. I wonder if they gave

636
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: her the job at St. Vincent's on condition that she

637
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: work on her problems. That could very well be it

638
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: that she would say, Hey, I got fired from my

639
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: other job because of these things, and I'm really wanted

640
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 1: to work on them, and you know, being up front, honest,

641
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: and they appreciated that, and they said, all right, well

642
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: if you do counseling, then will or she didn't hide

643
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: it and they called the other other place. They're like,

644
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: oh yeah, no, no, this is why we let her

645
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: go because you know, hospitals talked to each other. Yeah,

646
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: that guy killed like two dozen people. Oh yeah, we're

647
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: not going to hire that the angel of death. Yeah, yeah,

648
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: they're not. They're not going to do that. But but

649
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: I mean, regardless, it's so far the last ten fifteen

650
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: minutes has been super uplifting. Shall we get into theories? Um? Yeah,

651
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 1: why not? Theory number one, she ran away, that's a theory.

652
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: The circus not that the theory goes that she she

653
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: ran away from her life. She she wasn't happy. Is

654
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: we've kind of had a discussion here so far, is

655
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: that she wasn't happy and maybe the drinking and staying

656
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: out at night note without her husband may have been

657
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: a symptom of that, and the possible depression that we've

658
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: touched on briefly might have been another symptom of that

659
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 1: as well. Uh. There there there are bits that say

660
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: that the marriage wasn't all roses and things between the

661
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: couple weren't all great. I was gonna say, We've rationalized

662
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 1: a number of things so far, and one of the

663
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,919
Speaker 1: things I can say is that I don't know any RelA,

664
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: aationship that is perfect, and people who say they have

665
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: a perfect relationship are in denial of something. I mean,

666
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 1: people are people, and there's always going to be some friction.

667
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: The other thing is I've talked about before with well

668
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: things seem to be good, is who's telling the story,

669
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: Ron and her family. So we have one source of

670
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: the information. The sheer coincidence of her deciding to run

671
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: away the day before the World Trade Center attack. It's

672
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:41,479
Speaker 1: just too convenient for me, it's too perfect. Well, don't

673
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: you know it's not necessarily coincidence, though she might have

674
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: been planning on running away and then and then eleven

675
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: happens and she realizes, holy crap, I got a perfect excuse.

676
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 1: It doesn't even have to be a planning like a

677
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 1: you know, months in advanced situation. It could just be

678
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: she sees the thing happening and realizes I could disappear

679
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: true and it would explain right. They found all of

680
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: her stuff was still in the apartment. Everything you know,

681
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 1: your credit cards, her glasses, her ID or passport, her

682
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: driver's license and passports, everything was left behind. That well, okay,

683
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: I don't know why her driver's license would be left

684
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 1: behind if she was out drinking. But I can't see

685
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,959
Speaker 1: how you would go shopping without your idea. You would

686
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: need your idea and credit cards. So I think it's

687
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: probably not true that they were left at the apartment.

688
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: But okay, fine, even if they were even all the

689
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 1: better to disappear if you have some cash that you

690
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: got who knows how, but you've got some cash and

691
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: you just walk away from your life. You have some cash,

692
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: you managed to get out someplace, and you know, I don't,

693
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: I don't know do something. I've obviously never tried to

694
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 1: plan a disappearance, So I would think that if you

695
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: were planning to take off, you would maybe do a

696
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: little noodling on the internet. Yeah, I think I help

697
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: change your identity and stuff like that if you were planning. Again,

698
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: Not that key part race that she wasn't just a

699
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: runaway of advantage, right, Yes, A great circumstances to take

700
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 1: advantage because of the the p I ken Glaude. He

701
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: said that he went through her or We've been told

702
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: that he went through her computer and found nothing in

703
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: her history on the computer to indicate that now she

704
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: might have been savvy enough to wipe her browser history

705
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: a different computer. Yeah, do it at work occasionally or

706
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: the library. Yeah, yeah, I mean there's there's ways that

707
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: it can be done, but but none of this stuff

708
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: is there. The thing, and I know that you're probably

709
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: gonna jump on me a little bit for this, Devin,

710
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: but the thing that she did that makes me think

711
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: that maybe she wasn't intending to leave is that she

712
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: had gone and spent the day with her mother several

713
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: days prior to that, and when she was with her mother,

714
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: she had said this was great, and why are we

715
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: doing this more often? Like this was a great day. Well,

716
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,720
Speaker 1: that's that's one of the problems I have with this theory.

717
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: I don't think she ran away because it appears to

718
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: me that she was close to her family, and if

719
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: even if she had a rocky marriage, I don't think

720
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: she'd abandoned her family. But the other the other thing

721
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: is there's there's always a high bar for me and

722
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: this whole, this whole thing about people disappearing, it depends

723
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: on how much you're leaving behind, and she's spent years

724
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 1: and a lot of money getting a medical credential, which

725
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: she would be throwing away. Yeah, so that's why I

726
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: don't believe it. I agree with you, But I will

727
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: just say that people get sentimental when they're planning to leave, right, So,

728
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: you know, saying spending time with your mom and having

729
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: not done that a whole lot, and just saying, oh,

730
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: I just wish we would do this more often doesn't

731
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,879
Speaker 1: necessarily mean also, I'm not planning to run away. But

732
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: I'm with Joe on this one. I don't think she

733
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: ran away, all right. Well, that then makes us go

734
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: to the next theory. The next theory is that, in fact,

735
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: she did die at the World Trade Center. Yeah. Like

736
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: I said before, the story of her running into the

737
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,919
Speaker 1: World Trade Center was made up by her brother. There

738
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: is the footage of her in the apartment building entry

739
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: at about the time that the plane hit. That kind

740
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: of corroborates that maybe she did go and try and

741
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,240
Speaker 1: help and she was killed by falling debris or somehow

742
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: got into the lobby of the building and was killed

743
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: when it was when it collapsed, or ran into the

744
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: south tower. I mean, you know, yeah, there were. There

745
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: was a couple of minutes in between, at least, right,

746
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: I don't I'm sorry, I don't remember. I was young,

747
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: but there was time in between. So if the one

748
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: tower is burning, you run into the other one to

749
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: help people evacuate from it, and then that gets hit. Yeah,

750
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 1: or I don't think she would have run into the

751
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: other one, because at the time, when there was only

752
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: one plane it smacked into the towers, everybody thought it

753
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 1: was an accident. It wasn't until the second plane hit

754
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: that everybody everybody started saying w T. Yeah, Yeah, that's

755
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: that's a very good point. There's also the possibility in

756
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 1: this theory that she did stay out somewhere else and

757
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: stayed at somebody else's house that night or somebody else's

758
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: place the night prior, and was walking home. So they

759
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 1: lived only a couple of blocks away from the World

760
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: Trade Center, So it's possible that she was an innocent

761
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: bystander when the first plane struck and got hit by

762
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: debris and then eventually buried when the tower came down

763
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: entirely or there. I'm sure there was a Starbucks in

764
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 1: the No, I mean genuinely there there were, there were

765
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: things in the tower too, right, So it's possible that

766
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: she just happened to be in there doing something on

767
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: her way home. The century twenty one was cross street,

768
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: and I've seen I will admit I didn't dive into

769
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: this because it didn't key in until just this moment.

770
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: Is that there were people that could stay across the

771
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 1: street from the World Trade Center. So maybe she stayed

772
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: over there somehow, And I don't know how that plays out.

773
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: I can't even begin to fathom how that plays out.

774
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: But maybe somehow then she comes out and then whatever

775
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 1: scenario happens happens. This is this is entirely possible as well.

776
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: And I think there are some good statistics to support

777
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,439
Speaker 1: this theory as well. There are there actually there. They're

778
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: really disheartening. But but here's I'll lay at a couple

779
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 1: of bullet points. All of the two thousand, six hundred

780
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: and six people that were killed in the World Trade

781
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: Center collapse, so that's not counting people who were on

782
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: the planes, there were about sixteen, it was six. About

783
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: six people were never identified. The remains were never IDENTI

784
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: fun there are over ten thousand tissue and bone samples

785
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 1: that have been collected that haven't been identified, as in,

786
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: they haven't been matched to a known victim somebody that

787
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: was in the towers at the time, So that's a

788
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: huge number of people. The other thing is that the

789
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: City of New York has in their possession at to

790
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 1: this day about two thirds of the jewelry that was

791
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: collected from the site. When the fires were raging, it

792
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 1: was about it was over two thousand degrees in the rubble.

793
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 1: Most things like metal bands, like gold and silver, those

794
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: things are gonna melt, but diamonds and hard stone like

795
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: that would not. So those those items were found, and

796
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 1: some of them have been returned to family who have

797
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: been able to provide documentation saying yes, that was my

798
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: wife's diamond or my husband's diamond, or whatever the case

799
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: may be. That means that it's entirely possible that we

800
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: that they may be able to figure out that she

801
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: was in there based on the diamonds from her rings,

802
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: her earrings, and she had a necklace, so those things

803
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 1: could have survived the temperatures, and the family has provided

804
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: the documentation to the City of New York. But it's

805
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: really really difficult to to get confirmation of but it's

806
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: it's still possible, still possible that maybe I need, but

807
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: it's very tough. Well, that's the thing about it is

808
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: that there's only so many ways to cut a diamond,

809
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: and so matching up a diamond from one of her

810
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: pieces of jewelry was the diamonds that they find in there,

811
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: it's kind of conclusive, especially if it was you know,

812
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 1: a necklace set from k is right. How many women

813
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: have that necklace set from? You know? That's true coming

814
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, certainly like the diamond from her engagement ring

815
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 1: should have been more distinctive, but that would require a

816
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: serial number somehow etched on it, which I don't think

817
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 1: they don't know. But but you get, I know about

818
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 1: a diamond. You nobody get angry at me for buying

819
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: a blood diamond, but about a diamond. And I got

820
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: the report on it, and it's got all a specifics

821
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: listed on it. But here's the thing. If that diamond

822
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: is then in a giant fire and is being hit

823
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: by rubble that is tons and tons of stuff, it

824
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: may not be recognizable to that report. Also they probably have.

825
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: This is super depressing, but probably there are thousands of diamonds.

826
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 1: I mean, even if you just say half of the

827
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,800
Speaker 1: people that were killed in the World Trade Center attacks

828
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: where women that still is you know, over two thousand

829
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: people or sorry, over a thousand diamonds that could have

830
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: been found in the rubble. The fact that you can

831
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:08,240
Speaker 1: think it's in the order of pieces of identifiable jewelry

832
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: and that's insane To ask them to look an examine

833
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: every single one of them and try and match it

834
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: to one. That's insanity. Yeah, no, I mean I'll look. Yeah.

835
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: It actually surprises me that some company that specializes in

836
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: diamonds this is a marketing pr bit. And this is

837
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 1: gonna sound disgusting as soon as I say it, but

838
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 1: for great publicities say we're going to donate our services

839
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: and we're going to document the characteristics of every stone

840
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: that they have, and then we're going to try and

841
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: match them to it. That's a great pit of pr

842
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: that's also a huge service to the families. But it's

843
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:57,359
Speaker 1: companies do that stuff because well it's truistic, but it's

844
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: also great p off. Actually, if you if you just

845
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: took all the diamonds that you found it sort of

846
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: in my way and just say, okay, what are you

847
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,800
Speaker 1: looking for? Were you looking for a one carrot diamond. Okay,

848
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 1: and here's the one carrot diamonds. Let's look, let's how

849
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: to look. See. I'm pretty sure that all of the

850
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 1: really obvious ones the very easy to identify. That that

851
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 1: third that were identified, they're probably easy to figure out

852
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 1: after that. The rest of them were just so nondescript.

853
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: You know, you've got one carrots and three quarter carrots

854
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 1: and all these little stones. At that point, it's a

855
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: needle in a haystack. But but I think we've belabored that.

856
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 1: I'm kind of doubting that she died that died in

857
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: the w TC because simply because she spent the night

858
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: with somebody, and she usually would stay with either her

859
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: cousin or a brother, and she didn't obviously stay with them,

860
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 1: so she stayed with somebody else. That person never came forward,

861
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: you're right, you know, and so and so she instantly

862
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: spent the night with somebody and forgotten left her bag.

863
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 1: So you think that that person, at some point or

864
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 1: another come forward and said, hey, she slept on my

865
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 1: couch that night, And that person never did. And that

866
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: actually leads us into our next set of theories, because

867
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 1: our next theory is actually split in half and that

868
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: theory's violently No. The next theory is that she was

869
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: kidnapped and or murdered, or how about sold into slavery. Yeah.

870
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 1: I didn't even go into that, Joe. I don't really

871
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: want to go into that, to be quite honest with you, sir.

872
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 1: Here's here's the thing we're going to talk about. The

873
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:41,479
Speaker 1: century twenty one. There was a clerk there named Sonya Mora.

874
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: She came forward later on, I think it was weeks

875
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: or a month later, and she said that she saw

876
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: sney Huh shopping there, and she she knew her. She'd

877
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: been there many times. Yeah, she was a regular so

878
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: store close to her house, she probably, yeah. And she

879
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: said that she saw her with another woman shopping. She

880
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: said she saw her in the shoe section with this woman,

881
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 1: which unfortunately didn't have video surveillance, because evidently the shoes

882
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: aren't as important as the jackets section where there was

883
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 1: surveillance footage. It's harder to steal shoes than jackets, is it, really, Yeah,

884
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: you just put a jacket on and walk out like

885
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,439
Speaker 1: you've been wearing it, shoes, like you have another pair

886
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 1: of shoes, or oftentimes they'll only put one shoe out

887
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: or uh, they only have the display size out and

888
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 1: then sitting there and very good point. Yeah, well, it

889
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: appears in the footage has found that she's by herself.

890
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:52,280
Speaker 1: But according to this report, she was with another woman

891
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 1: who was described as small, dark skinned, possibly in her

892
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 1: thirties and possibly Indian. This woman, you know, she might

893
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 1: have been and she might have known Snea Hob but

894
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 1: she's never come forward. And and the lead ends right there.

895
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,319
Speaker 1: And it could have been as simple as somebody that

896
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: she had met before at the store, could have been

897
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: a casual acquaintance who she bumped into. It could have

898
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: been some of these she didn't know and just sat

899
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 1: there and had a conversation about aren't they shoes great?

900
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: And the clerk immediately assumed that they knew each other

901
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 1: the same and they look kind of the same. Yes,

902
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: so there's there's all kinds of stuff. But if if

903
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: this is true, this woman never came forward, so we

904
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 1: don't we don't know anything about her. Well, yeah, and

905
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I had a lot of random

906
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 1: thoughts and her ideas as I was going through this story.

907
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 1: And one thing that I've never been able to find,

908
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 1: it's a picture of her mother and we don't know

909
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: what's in the tense of their two hour online conversation.

910
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: I would imagine this would have come out in the

911
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: police report. But it's plausible. I mean, I'm I have

912
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: to wonder, did they say, let's go to the century.

913
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: It just seems unlikely that her mother, the mother of

914
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: a thirty something your old woman, would be described as

915
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: looking like she was in her thirties as well. Sorry,

916
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:28,240
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of stereotypes for people saying I can't

917
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: tell one from the other. An age age is kind

918
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,720
Speaker 1: of hard to tell sometimes. I mean, I know women

919
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 1: that I work with who are of Asian descent, and

920
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, the first time I met her, I was like,

921
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: she's must be one in her mid thirties. No, she's

922
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: in her mid fifties. I mean, some people age differently,

923
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: that's true, but that would be a startling. I mean,

924
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,720
Speaker 1: to look like you're the age that your child is

925
00:55:55,719 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 1: is very It's it's not I understand, I agree, but

926
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 1: I would say that it's highly unlikely. No, I will

927
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,399
Speaker 1: not disagree with that, but I just I couldn't help

928
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: but think of that. The other The other thing is, though,

929
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: is it couldn't have been her mother, because her mother

930
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: would have said something, absolutely have something. I think in

931
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: a heartbeat she would have said something. Again, this is

932
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 1: one of those things that just popped into my head

933
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: and I had to ask. Yeah, it's it's hard to

934
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: say what a relationship, if anything, to this woman was,

935
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: And it's hard to say they were just like, you know,

936
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: two people who just chatted for thirty seconds, and it

937
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 1: could have been as simple as that. But let's move

938
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 1: to the other half of she was kidnapped slash murdered. Uh,

939
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 1: it's entirely possible that she was just the victim of

940
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:44,399
Speaker 1: a random murder. She was known to go to a bar,

941
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 1: whether it was a bar that was of men and

942
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: women or women only, and have a drink or several drinks.

943
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 1: And it's possible that she sat down next to someone

944
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: female or male, who lured away from the bar, or

945
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: who randomly followed her home and attacked her. She could

946
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 1: have been unfaithful and went home with somebody who was

947
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 1: capable of murder. I mean, these things are entirely possible.

948
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 1: But the odd part of that is that her body

949
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: never showed up. And we've we've had a lot of

950
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: conversations recording this podcast about how hard it is to

951
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: really do a good job of hiding a body. It's

952
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 1: New York. It's full of dark, cubby holes where you

953
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: can stuff things that don't show up for years. I

954
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: get that, but most people who kill aren't that good

955
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: at thinking ahead, especially in a time when I mean

956
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: it seems like the city was being pretty scoured for bodies,

957
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: not you know, World Trades cent are notwithstanding there are

958
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: all those you know, nine thousand missing people reported. The

959
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 1: NYPD is going to go out and be like, all right, well,

960
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 1: I guess we'll check every dumpster today, you know, I

961
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 1: guess we'll check every Are you talking about checking every

962
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: dumpster in the city because of just no, well, I'm

963
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 1: not because of the terrorist attacks necessarily, but to help

964
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: try to determine if the people that were reported were

965
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: actually in the World Trade Centers or they you know,

966
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: we're drunk asleep on the court. You know, last time

967
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: I saw Joe, he was at jones E's bar and

968
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 1: he was talking to this ruffian and then I didn't

969
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 1: see him against So they're gonna go to Jones's bar

970
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: and they're going to rifle through the dumpster in the

971
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: back just to check. And I don't you know, that

972
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 1: just comes from what makes sense to me is that

973
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: that's how you whittle something like that down. That's how

974
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: you come up with the accurate number, is you prove

975
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: that the other people who you kind of pursue all

976
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: avenues of people being reported missing. So you're doing probably

977
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 1: more investigation than typical. You're going to run into bodies

978
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 1: more frequently, you would think, you would think. Yeah, But

979
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 1: also I can see the total sit they were stretched thin,

980
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 1: and it's totally possible that I actually have a feeling

981
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 1: that that is more accurate. They were stretched So but

982
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:10,680
Speaker 1: you can also there are ways to get rid of bodies,

983
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 1: and there really are, there are, but not everybody knows

984
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: how to do that. And I get if this is true,

985
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: it's gonna be kind of a crime of opportunity rather

986
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 1: than a crime of planning. Crime of opportunity usually ends

987
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: up being messy and leaving all kinds of clues. Yeah, well,

988
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: it's certainly, you know what you would think that somebody,

989
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 1: if we wanted to say, murder her, would just have

990
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: murdered her and left the body to be found exactly.

991
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:48,439
Speaker 1: But you know, supposing a murdered her statutes. The body

992
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: behind the bush goes away. And this is remember they

993
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: lived in the battery. They live very close to the water,

994
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: very close to the docks, and so you know, I go,

995
00:59:57,480 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 1: you go away, you find you find a bout of

996
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 1: change in way it's kind back, you know, and wait

997
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: to buy it down and just pitch her off a

998
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: pier and never be found again. I mean not for years. No, no, no,

999
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: I I totally get where you're going. It's just it

1000
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: doesn't seem that likely to me. No, not really. I

1001
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 1: mean that that that seems to in for a lot

1002
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: of planning, and especially in the aftermath of the World

1003
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 1: Trade Center events. Let's say, okay, let's just run down

1004
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 1: that out that that rabbit hole for a minute. You

1005
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 1: kill somebody and you got them, you got the body

1006
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 1: in your apartment, and you're trying to figure out how

1007
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: to get it to the docks. And then a plane

1008
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 1: flies into a freaking building and the city is a zoo.

1009
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 1: How are you going to sneak around with a body

1010
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: rolled up in a rug? To use the the old

1011
01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 1: mob joke, I mean, that's that's really not as easy

1012
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: to do because everybody's looking at everything. That's going on

1013
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 1: and they're all wigged out, said, that would be the

1014
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: one time you could just you could actually, you know,

1015
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: throw a body over your shoulder in the fireman's carry

1016
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 1: and and be going down the streets saying, oh my god,

1017
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 1: she's hurt really bad. I got to get to the hospital.

1018
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 1: You could do that. Yeah, observation that really creeps. It

1019
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 1: might actually be a sher coincidence, and maybe she was

1020
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 1: murdered and then and then stuffed in a dumpster at

1021
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: the World Trade Center just by shier coincidence. Like keep

1022
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, trying to hold back from saying something like, well,

1023
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: it's also not entirely impossible that she was lord and

1024
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:42,560
Speaker 1: murdered in the World Trades I mean the huge, huge

1025
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 1: buildings with lots and lots of offices. If somebody were

1026
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 1: you know, if she met somebody in that area and

1027
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: they worked there and they said, all right, sweet, let's

1028
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 1: go back to my you know, let's go to my

1029
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 1: office and do the hanky panky, and one thing like

1030
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: to another. I mean, it's not impossible. It's not probable,

1031
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: but it's not impossible. And that's that's the hard part.

1032
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: It's not impossible. Let's go to what I'm gonna say,

1033
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 1: is a completely self made theory. Yeah. I have come

1034
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 1: up with this all of my own because original content.

1035
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 1: It's original content, because nobody else is putting this out there,

1036
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: and I don't see this anywhere else. But I'm going

1037
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 1: to say the last theory is that she was killed

1038
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 1: by her husband. The NYPD did investigate Ron and as

1039
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 1: I I've already said several times, all we know about

1040
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: his wife is from him and her family. But the

1041
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: NYPD looked into him and they ruled him out at

1042
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 1: some point in their investigation. I don't know how. I

1043
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:55,439
Speaker 1: don't know what they had, but there's some there's there's

1044
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 1: more red flags that are coming up. One red flag

1045
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 1: is that there was a call made from their home

1046
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: phone at four am on the eleventh to his cell phone.

1047
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 1: He has explained that away as saying, well, I don't

1048
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 1: remember doing it, but I must have got up in

1049
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 1: the middle of the night and checked my voicemail. Now

1050
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people are saying, why would

1051
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 1: you check your voicemail without your cell phone? Well it

1052
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: was it was thearly two thousand's. Every phone companies were

1053
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 1: charging you minutes for all usage. Call your voicemail that

1054
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 1: counts against your minutes. So you know, I worked for

1055
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 1: a cell phone company at that point. We used to

1056
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: tell people check your voicemail from your own phone to

1057
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 1: save your minutes. So that that's that's kind of understandable.

1058
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 1: I can kind of get that. I can kind of

1059
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 1: get it accept that. What the problem with that is

1060
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 1: is that, you know, I'm trying to put myself back

1061
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 1: into the year two thousand one. You would think you'd

1062
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:01,640
Speaker 1: be able to just look at his cell phone without

1063
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 1: actually dialing anything and tell him telling you I thought

1064
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 1: of that too, I'm not even. I can't even. I mean,

1065
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 1: that's suddenly we're going to branch out into a thousand

1066
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 1: eventualities if we started saying, well, maybe he was out

1067
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 1: of battery, or maybe this was going on, or that

1068
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: was maybe they were in a dead spot. I mean,

1069
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: there's there's all kinds of things that I've I've kind

1070
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 1: of held back from some of that. I guess I

1071
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,320
Speaker 1: will just say that I don't know about you guys,

1072
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 1: but if I wake up in the middle of the

1073
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 1: night worried about my significant other enough at least to

1074
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 1: call my voicemail to be cognizant enough to call my

1075
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 1: voicemail from my home phone to check my voicemail. I'm

1076
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 1: gonna remember that the next morning. You would think, I'm

1077
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 1: not gonna just be like, oh, I guess I might

1078
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: have called my cell phone voicemail. He gonna remember. Some

1079
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 1: people are different. Keep in mind, though, he got in

1080
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 1: around midnight and he had to get up and leave

1081
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:00,440
Speaker 1: his house at like six or six thirty. So we're

1082
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 1: talking four hours of sleep to then go back sleep

1083
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 1: and sleep for a couple of I mean, I do,

1084
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 1: I do that fairly regularly, I you know. But that's

1085
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 1: and again it's just me, but most people I know,

1086
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 1: I think we'll say things like I woke up in

1087
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: the middle of I I was so worried about this person,

1088
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 1: and then I went back to sleep, not even like

1089
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:20,960
Speaker 1: I got out of bed and went on the phone

1090
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 1: and called my voicemail and remembered to not use my

1091
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 1: cell phone and bla bla bla bah. Yeah. So for me,

1092
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 1: that's a it's a red flag a little bit. But

1093
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: the other thing is to I have a phone, she

1094
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 1: have a cell phone. I don't know. Yeah, I don't

1095
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 1: know if she had a cell of her own. I

1096
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:40,479
Speaker 1: haven't seen anything about that. Yeah, I haven't seen anything

1097
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 1: about it either. I mean, and and in two thousand one,

1098
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 1: I mean, cell phone usage was not nearly as ubiquitous

1099
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 1: as it is today. No, it may have been that

1100
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:50,919
Speaker 1: he had splurged and got one, or maybe he had

1101
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 1: one from work, but she didn't get one or didn't

1102
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 1: qualify for one through work. I mean, there's yeah, I

1103
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 1: mean not, it wasn't nearly as vlet let's let's go

1104
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:06,600
Speaker 1: on though. Here's the fact I've been holding back. Oh yeah,

1105
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a jerk like that. Yeah, yeah, I I

1106
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 1: talked about a little bit that it wasn't all sunshine

1107
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 1: and roses between them. Okay, do you remember that charge

1108
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:20,760
Speaker 1: that she filed that then backfired and ended up as

1109
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 1: a charge against her. Okay, she had a court appointment

1110
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 1: on the morning of the tenth for that charge. So

1111
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 1: Ron had left the apartment to go to work at

1112
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 1: like noon or one, but that morning they had gone

1113
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 1: to court. He went with her, He went with her,

1114
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 1: and you know, it didn't go well, and she she

1115
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 1: pled not guilty, saying that she didn't do it. So,

1116
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 1: of course, now she's got to face the whole litany

1117
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 1: of the legal process. What I'm about to tell you, though,

1118
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 1: as with so many other things in this story, that

1119
01:06:55,840 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 1: the family is denying but the NYPD police report is saying,

1120
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 1: is that the couple had a big fight or a

1121
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 1: huge fight outside of the courtroom after the fact, and

1122
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 1: Ron was really mad at her because she was abusing

1123
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 1: drugs and alcohol and she was having sex with other

1124
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:23,760
Speaker 1: people bisexual, So either she was having sex with women

1125
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 1: or she was having sex with men or both. I

1126
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 1: don't know, But in that accounting, according to the NYPD,

1127
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:36,320
Speaker 1: she got angry and she stormed out of the courthouse

1128
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:40,479
Speaker 1: and she left. He denies, of course, Oh yeah, he

1129
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 1: he says, that's not what happened at all. That that

1130
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 1: that and under his recounting the whole thing, they had

1131
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: lunch before he left to go to work. Correct. Correct, Yeah,

1132
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 1: they had lunch and they went out for lunch. Correct.

1133
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 1: Does anybody know what restaurants they went to? Is there

1134
01:07:56,200 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 1: any way to back that up? Again? He didn't say.

1135
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 1: My biggest gripe with his entire story is he didn't say,

1136
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: and that's what's gonna lead us into the end of

1137
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:18,560
Speaker 1: this theory, which may make it us in trouble. And

1138
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 1: made lights and fires. I don't know, but what what

1139
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 1: if Ron killed her. He's the only person who has

1140
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 1: said most of the information we've given, and he's the

1141
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 1: only one who said that she wasn't home that night

1142
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 1: of the tenth, And that's entirely possible. But let's flip

1143
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 1: the tables. What if he wasn't home. What if he

1144
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 1: was out late and she called his cell phone at

1145
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 1: four am and he came to a very angry wife saying,

1146
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 1: where the hell have you been? I mean, it's it's

1147
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 1: completely possible. Or or she called him and said where

1148
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,799
Speaker 1: are you? And he was still angry from the morning,

1149
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 1: came home drunk and angry, annoyed even more because she

1150
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:12,320
Speaker 1: had the gall to call him to see where he was.

1151
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 1: And then something happened, whether intentional or not, something happened

1152
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 1: and and she died from it. Or I mean, there's

1153
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 1: there's also because again he censored everything. Maybe she was

1154
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:28,920
Speaker 1: having an affair with someone male or female. And by

1155
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:31,000
Speaker 1: the way, if you ever get on the forums, the

1156
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:33,519
Speaker 1: forums are lit up with the fact that she was

1157
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 1: obviously having an affair because she was out not with

1158
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 1: her husband, And I don't buy into that so much.

1159
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 1: But let's say she was having an affair. Let's say

1160
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 1: he knew she was having an affair and she got

1161
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:51,640
Speaker 1: home late or he got home late drunk, same scenario

1162
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: plays out. They get into a fight because everything is brewing,

1163
01:09:56,320 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 1: and suddenly she dies for what what ever happens, and

1164
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:07,680
Speaker 1: then he's forced to try and hide a body, and

1165
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 1: it just happens to be that this city goes crazy

1166
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:15,759
Speaker 1: the next day and it, as Joe pointed out, maybe

1167
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 1: that makes it easier to hide a body. I don't know.

1168
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 1: I mean really, my point is is we only have

1169
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 1: one source of information, and we we have railed against

1170
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 1: that on so many stories before. I have to be honest,

1171
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 1: this one is such a heart wrenching story that it

1172
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 1: took me about five reads through everything before suddenly the

1173
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 1: source stood out as possibly the suspect. And that's why

1174
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 1: I think that most people have not pointed at Ron

1175
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 1: because he is viewed as collateral damage. He's the victim. Yeah,

1176
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:03,280
Speaker 1: and either I'm right or wrong. I really hope I'm wrong,

1177
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:06,479
Speaker 1: but I kind of I I kind of doubt that

1178
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:08,880
Speaker 1: he has he killed her, but I think it's more

1179
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:11,719
Speaker 1: likely that somebody else killed or some random type of person.

1180
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 1: And I don't know if Ron's seeing anyone. I haven't

1181
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 1: seen anything. The last article about the story, I think

1182
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:22,920
Speaker 1: it's two years old, and which would make that ten

1183
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 1: plus year ten twelve years later he's did and they

1184
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:30,360
Speaker 1: don't mention that. What you think they would if he

1185
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,479
Speaker 1: had finally met somebody again, And they don't say that,

1186
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:36,280
Speaker 1: which makes you think that maybe he really is the

1187
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:39,760
Speaker 1: victim in this story. Yeah, I think the thing about

1188
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 1: it is is that when the last heard of Ron's Ron,

1189
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:45,879
Speaker 1: I don't know if they owned or rented that apartment

1190
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 1: in the battery. I think they rented the rented it.

1191
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 1: He gave up the apartment and moved in with her

1192
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 1: parents and upstate New York. And the thing about it

1193
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:57,080
Speaker 1: is is that if he went ballistic on her one

1194
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 1: night and wind up killing her accidentally or not, and

1195
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:02,560
Speaker 1: there almost certainly would have been a prior history of

1196
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 1: domestic violence, and since she was so close to her family,

1197
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:11,479
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have known about it, and he probably wouldn't

1198
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:13,680
Speaker 1: be all that welcome in their home. It's hard, it's

1199
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,920
Speaker 1: always hard to tell what's domestic abuse. But yeah, maybe

1200
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 1: I don't even want to speculate. Maybe she would have

1201
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:22,120
Speaker 1: kept it quiet. I don't know, and there's no obviously,

1202
01:12:22,160 --> 01:12:24,760
Speaker 1: there's no reason to think that he was he was abusive.

1203
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:27,679
Speaker 1: I think, honestly, the best scenario in this is that

1204
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 1: she was out late night, just crashed on someone's couch,

1205
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,840
Speaker 1: left her stuff there, came home, the buildings were collapsing,

1206
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 1: and she thought, oh, I better go help, and then

1207
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 1: died trying to rescue people. And that person didn't know

1208
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:45,439
Speaker 1: who she was, so they couldn't say I found your

1209
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:49,800
Speaker 1: wife's bags in my apartment when she crashed on my couch. Yeah.

1210
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:53,280
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but that's the other thing, that the bag

1211
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 1: is going to have a receipt in it. No, it

1212
01:12:56,200 --> 01:13:00,800
Speaker 1: isn't wallet. Yeah, I mean I how many times do

1213
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:03,479
Speaker 1: you get a receipt and you throw it in the

1214
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 1: trash can as you look out of the store. I

1215
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:08,160
Speaker 1: never do that. I saw in the trash can. I

1216
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 1: want to get home. I do it all the time.

1217
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 1: I just asked for no receipt. But in those days,

1218
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 1: you do, you would you always got to receipt. But

1219
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:18,880
Speaker 1: most people, as you know, I worked in retail about

1220
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 1: that time, and nine times out of ten you would say,

1221
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 1: do you went through a seat with you were in

1222
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:24,519
Speaker 1: the bag? And they would say with me, please, with me, please,

1223
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:27,519
Speaker 1: with me, please, and then that stuff in their pocket. Yeah,

1224
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:29,400
Speaker 1: or they stuck it in their wallet and then came

1225
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:31,559
Speaker 1: home and put it in there, you know, little ledger

1226
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:37,439
Speaker 1: or whatever. My parents did this stuff in the bag.

1227
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 1: You know. I'm dealing with it when I get but yeah,

1228
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 1: but but it may have been on her. But it's

1229
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 1: but I I I have to say, and I understand

1230
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 1: why the why the family wants to believe that she

1231
01:13:48,439 --> 01:13:52,719
Speaker 1: heroically died in the trade center. And that's the Yeah,

1232
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:56,479
Speaker 1: that's that's what makes you feel better to fall asleep

1233
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 1: at night. Yeah, I guess, sorry not to be labor

1234
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:01,880
Speaker 1: the point too much. In fairness, If it wasn't her

1235
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 1: that was in the surveillance tape on the eleventh, she

1236
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:06,400
Speaker 1: could have been walking home, saw the plane crash, had

1237
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:09,880
Speaker 1: her bags, ran in with bags, dropped them or drop

1238
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 1: them on the street or whatever. I'm sure that all

1239
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:14,200
Speaker 1: of the stuff that was left on the streets by

1240
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 1: people trying to save people wasn't inventory super well yeah,

1241
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:22,720
Speaker 1: you know, and may have been or yeah, I was

1242
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 1: just too trashed to really be worth saving. But but again,

1243
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 1: the problem I had, the big hitch They have with

1244
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:32,120
Speaker 1: that story is that no one knows who she spent

1245
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:33,760
Speaker 1: the night with or where she spent the night at.

1246
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 1: But again, come forward, I have got to admit that

1247
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 1: I have met somebody and had too much to drink

1248
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:45,640
Speaker 1: and crashed on their couch and woke up in the

1249
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 1: morning and they were still crashed out, and I went

1250
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 1: where am I I gotta go? And it's not like

1251
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 1: I met them and I gave him all the impertinent

1252
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 1: details the night before. All I knew was my name

1253
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 1: was Steve, and I was some silly look dude with

1254
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:02,760
Speaker 1: a goatee, and then I beat feet before they woke up.

1255
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:06,759
Speaker 1: In fairness, possibly there weren't posters of you posted around,

1256
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 1: right that person would see that poster and think, oh,

1257
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:14,839
Speaker 1: that's that's that girl. Also, in fairness, you don't necessarily

1258
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,240
Speaker 1: go to the bar with bags full of comforters and

1259
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:20,120
Speaker 1: bedding and stuff. That's the other thing that's a little odd.

1260
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 1: Think I don't know. There's I think there's just so

1261
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:24,759
Speaker 1: much odd with this story that there's not a good answer.

1262
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 1: But I just I think that for my own peace

1263
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:30,719
Speaker 1: of mind, I want to believe that she she rushed

1264
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:33,760
Speaker 1: to help. She yeah, she died helping people, and I

1265
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:36,880
Speaker 1: want to believe that too. That's the way I want

1266
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 1: to believe that, but I don't quite believe it. Yeah,

1267
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 1: I have a hard time. There's so many other things.

1268
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 1: But before we beliebor anything else and we go down

1269
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 1: any other rabbit holes, we're going to call this one done.

1270
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:52,840
Speaker 1: So for anybody who wants to listen to any other

1271
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 1: episodes we have, or read any of the links pertaining

1272
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:59,120
Speaker 1: to this story, you can find all of that on

1273
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:03,559
Speaker 1: our website, which just thinking Sideways podcast dot com. You

1274
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:07,280
Speaker 1: can find us on iTunes if you, and most people do.

1275
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:09,880
Speaker 1: But if you find us on iTunes, do please take

1276
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:13,719
Speaker 1: the time to subscribe, leave a comment and a rating,

1277
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:16,599
Speaker 1: because that will help other people find us. We are

1278
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:20,800
Speaker 1: going to be on just about every streaming service known

1279
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 1: to man at this point, I don't even know how

1280
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 1: many there are out there, but I thou i've stopped looking,

1281
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 1: stop adding us. Find us on there. You can subscribe

1282
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:34,840
Speaker 1: through whatever podcast app you look use. We're on Facebook,

1283
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:37,719
Speaker 1: so we've got the Facebook page and the Facebook group

1284
01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:42,360
Speaker 1: again this story. I had a great conversation on the

1285
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 1: Facebook group a couple of months back, which is why

1286
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:47,720
Speaker 1: it's finally coming through because I was doing all the

1287
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 1: back research on it. But those are the kind of

1288
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:53,519
Speaker 1: things that you'll get to read and participate in on

1289
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:58,640
Speaker 1: the group we are on Twitter. It's Thinking without the

1290
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:04,840
Speaker 1: G sideways is here's that character limit, silly Twitter. You

1291
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:08,080
Speaker 1: can always go ahead and send us an email if

1292
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:10,639
Speaker 1: you want to send us an email. Our email address

1293
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 1: is Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. Oh and

1294
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:18,640
Speaker 1: of course we have shirts and mugs and all of

1295
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:24,519
Speaker 1: that virgandise. Yes, that is all available through Zazzle. If

1296
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:26,679
Speaker 1: you go to our website on the right hand side,

1297
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:29,559
Speaker 1: you'll see a link to Zazzle. It's right above the

1298
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:32,880
Speaker 1: donate button and you can get anything off of there.

1299
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:37,880
Speaker 1: And I think that's all of the good information that

1300
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 1: we need to give all of these good people, right guys, Yeah, okay,

1301
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:47,240
Speaker 1: Well another mysteries saw that we overlooked one possibility. Well

1302
01:17:47,320 --> 01:18:02,320
Speaker 1: we did. Yeah, wow, Hello, let's staring you right in

1303
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:06,080
Speaker 1: the face, dude, always yeah, always staring at us in

1304
01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:08,919
Speaker 1: the face. Well, okay, anyway, that's it, ladies and gentlemen.

1305
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:13,719
Speaker 1: It's been great. And wait with bated breath, next week

1306
01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:16,599
Speaker 1: we have a big reveal. It's so good. It's gonna

1307
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:19,600
Speaker 1: be great. It's so good, it's gonna be great. But

1308
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:21,840
Speaker 1: we're not gonna tell you about it now. We're gonna

1309
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:25,800
Speaker 1: make you wait another seven days.