1 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: And tonight, do we have two folks that y'all need 2 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: to hear from. Tonight, We've got Ray Dawson. He's a 3 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: sworn detective with the Randolph County Sheriff's Office and he's 4 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: assigned to the Invictus Task Force. He's a digital forensic examiner, analyst, 5 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: and investigator. Y'all. He's a member of the North Carolina 6 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: State Bureau of Investigation Internet Crimes against Children Task Force. 7 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: He's a North Carolina Human Trafficking Demand Reduction Task Force member. 8 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, Ray founded the Invictus Project, which 9 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: is a five oh one c three nonprofit to combat 10 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: domestic trafficking and sexual exploitation of children. Y'all. He's an 11 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: Army veteran. He's married. He's funny, y'all, just wait on it. 12 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: He's a pistol. And we're also joined by Zachary Neath. 13 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: He's a criminal investigator with Homeland Security. He serves fourteen 14 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: counties in North Carolina. He's a member of the Invictus 15 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 1: Child Exploitation Task Force. Special Agent Neath is a proactive 16 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: online investigator. If you are targeting children for sexual abuse, 17 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: material distribution, or travel enticement, or you are supporting anything 18 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: that has to do with children being targets. He is 19 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: coming after you, y'all. Please help me welcome these two 20 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: heroes to Zone seven. Gentlemen, thank you for being here. 21 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 2: Thank you for having us, Yes, thanks for having us. 22 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: Zach tell us the story of the task force. 23 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 3: The North Carolina UH Internet Crimes against Children task Force. 24 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 3: You know, historically it's worked really well together, but it's 25 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 3: been it's been siloed, right so you you typically, you know, 26 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 3: previously you'd see a SHARE's deputy kind of the one 27 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 3: man army, working out of their cubicle down in the 28 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 3: bottom basement, you know, with with restricted access to their 29 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 3: office due to the material that they're you know, half 30 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 3: in the view. As part of the investigation UH back 31 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 3: a couple of years ago now in this area, we 32 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 3: decided to initiate a large scale undercover chat operation and 33 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 3: as a result, we had several members of the community, 34 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 3: from school bus drivers to business owners, et cetera, show 35 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 3: up in you know, in a personal capacity to meet 36 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 3: with what they believed to be a child. Operation was 37 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 3: highly successful, but what we found is the community demanded action. 38 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 3: The community wanted law enforcement to really focus on this issue. 39 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 3: We looked at it. County commissioners got involved. Ray with 40 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 3: the Invictus Project got involved, and we were able to 41 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 3: have four counties in central North Carolina as well as 42 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 3: North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation and my agency Homeland 43 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 3: Security investigations all come together. We're in a co located location, 44 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 3: and as Ray's mentioned, our sole focus is the crimes 45 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 3: against children crime type, but we're co located and what 46 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 3: that's enabled us to do is work together, collaboratively, leverage 47 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 3: not having jurisdictional issues with having additional resources come into 48 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 3: these counties, and then also just proactively go on these 49 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 3: cases where we're not strictly working our reactive cases come 50 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 3: in we're able to leverage having these investigative agencies coming 51 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 3: together to do larger scale and also help other agencies 52 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 3: and put on trainings. 53 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: So it's been. 54 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 3: A really good thing to see and hopefully we're able 55 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 3: to pick up this model in other areas other parts 56 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 3: of the country so that they're able to get more 57 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 3: of this proactive crimes against children activity started. 58 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you you know, there was a 59 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: time maybe in the seventies where people worried about that 60 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: kind of creepy neighbor down the street, or the odd 61 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: coach and little league. But now parents have to worry 62 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: about five hundred thousand people a day online. Five hundred thousand. 63 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: I mean, Zach, I don't even know what to do 64 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,239 Speaker 1: with that number. When you think I've got to protect 65 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: my child not just from the neighbor, the coach, the teacher, 66 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: a family member, but an additional five hundred thousand people 67 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: that can reach them through a video game. 68 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy. There's all sorts of online predators that 69 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 3: we encounter in our work every day. We see it 70 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 3: in the gaming platforms, we see it in text messages, 71 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 3: we see it on social media. We like to talk 72 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 3: about the new White Van being online environment because that's 73 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 3: where the kids are, right. You don't see kids necessarily 74 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 3: playing outside with the creepy guy down the street. Like 75 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 3: you mentioned. Concern of our task force and our concern 76 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 3: for our North Carolina ICIC affiliates are to go after 77 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 3: and proactively try to get the guys that are going 78 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 3: after children online by whatever means necessary to try to 79 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 3: identify them using our investigative techniques. 80 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 2: I think it's worth mentioning too that you know when 81 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 2: you talk about in the seventies, it was the creepy 82 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 2: guy down the road or the kind of sleazy soccer 83 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: coach and everybody kind of side eyed. Those are still 84 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 2: the actors, right. What's changed is that they have access 85 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 2: to our children while our children are at home in 86 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: their bedrooms on their social media devices, right, and so 87 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: typically in the past, these bad actors would have to 88 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: have some type of physical interaction with these children in 89 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 2: order to groom them in this process, right, And so 90 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 2: the bad actors are still out there, and what's happened 91 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 2: is they're in boldened because of the autonomy that they 92 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 2: have online and they're able to garner that access to 93 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 2: the children, whether it be through manifesting themselves on a 94 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: social media platform in the form of a child their 95 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 2: age to start that process, whether they're soliciting images or 96 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: their desire is to in fact do a face based meetup. 97 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 2: They have a unfed access to our children through their 98 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: social media devices. So the creepy guys are still out there, 99 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 2: we're just seeing they're embolden and by their ability to 100 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 2: be in the shadows, unaware of the parents' knowledge. And 101 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 2: so therefore the environment that our children are growing up 102 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 2: in is much much more dangerous than it was in 103 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 2: the seventies. 104 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: Ray, that's an excellent point. And you know something that 105 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: Zach said about the white van. He doesn't have to 106 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: drive around anymore and just see a child unattended to 107 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: or volunteer to coach a team or substitute teach. That 108 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: white van is in your child's hand. 109 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly right. And what we're seeing too is 110 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 2: not only is the new creepy white van the cell phone, 111 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: but you know, we're not seeing these these perpetrators on 112 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 2: playgrounds or in shopping malls like we did when I 113 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: was growing up in the eighties and nineties, because they're 114 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 2: where the kids are, and we're we're a very technologically 115 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 2: advanced society, and we are dealing with young people that 116 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 2: have spent their entire life on some type of social 117 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 2: media platform, and that is their normal social behavioral patterns 118 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 2: is to socialize online. 119 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: And you know, Zach, parents for the most part, are 120 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: always behind. When my son first got a gaming system 121 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: where he could play this war game, I knew that, 122 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: you know, he could get online and didn't have to 123 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: have the friend sitting right next to him, but I 124 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: did not realize he was playing with his cousins that 125 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: are in Connecticut in Florida. I didn't understand how that 126 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: was happening. But he would come, you know, downstairs and go, oh, 127 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: you know, Samuel just said this or this was hilarious 128 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: that Josh is doing, and I'm like, how are you 129 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: talking to him? I didn't understand it. So then I 130 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: was kind of knocked out by thinking, so anybody can 131 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,719 Speaker 1: jump in and play on this game with you. You 132 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: can connect with anybody, not just people that you know. 133 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly right. Like you mentioned, it seems like 134 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 3: parents are always one step behind with the technology, right, 135 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 3: and so coming out of COVID, what happened with COVID, 136 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 3: the world shut down and schools ended up having to 137 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 3: go online because of you know, because of the pure 138 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 3: you know, communical disease. So kids ended up with tablets 139 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 3: going home, there's chromebooks going home with them, and kids 140 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 3: wear a courage to go online. Not necessarily a bad thing, right. 141 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 3: Technology can be very good and it's enabling us to 142 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 3: have a conversation right now. But unfortunately, we've seen kids 143 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 3: that have grown up exclusively online, where their main form 144 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 3: of communication, their main form of interacting with one another 145 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 3: is it face to face anymore? In fact, if you 146 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 3: go to a school these days, oftentimes what you'll see 147 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 3: is kids standing around in a circle, but they're not 148 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 3: talking to each other. They're all on their cell phones 149 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 3: or all on some kind of media device talking to 150 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 3: one another on Snapchat. And so kids, you know, have, 151 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 3: for better or for worse, learned to have those friendships 152 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 3: and have those connections with each other and with you know, 153 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 3: with their fear groups and with their family members online. 154 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 3: And so you've got social media companies that have gotten 155 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 3: really good with enabling that communication. Unfortunately, anytime you have 156 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 3: that communication, you've got we call it sometimes we call 157 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 3: it a vulnerable flank where you don't realize that bad 158 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 3: actors can get in. They can, you know, pose as 159 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 3: younger people. Anybody can be anybody online, Right, That's what 160 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 3: Brad Paisley is saying about, you know, many years ago, 161 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 3: and even more so now. Uh, it's become where you 162 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 3: could have your digital identity and pretend to be somebody 163 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 3: else very easily with technology. 164 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: And you know, I think COVID for predators just exploded 165 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: their landscape. Now, Ray I read a statistic that eighty 166 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: nine point four million images of children being sexually exploited 167 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: or being traded. I mean, that's a number that is 168 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: just astronomical to me. How do you go about combating that? 169 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 2: Wow? Great question. It's kind of like, you know, how 170 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 2: do you eat at an elephant? You know, one bide 171 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 2: at a time, and you know that. And that's the 172 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 2: whole purpose of the Invictus Project and why we stood 173 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: up the nonprofit was because what we're seeing in this fight. 174 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 2: You're right, the numbers are unbelievable, and we're able to 175 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 2: have a deeper understanding of kind of how these predators 176 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 2: are behaving and how the victims are behaving because of 177 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,239 Speaker 2: our Task Force partnership, where we have an expanded jurisdiction. 178 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,319 Speaker 2: We have about fourteen investigators assigned to the Task Force 179 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 2: that have no collateral duties. So that's all we do 180 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 2: is hunt pedophiles, that's it. So obviously our lives are 181 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 2: deeply engrossed into this, so we're able to have a 182 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 2: deeper understanding of what's happening out there. And number one, 183 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 2: what we're seeing is these traded these images that are 184 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 2: being traded right there is a huge appetite for child 185 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 2: sex abuse material in the United States and abroad, and 186 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 2: so our victims, our children, are making this much easier 187 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 2: for these predators because they have been they live in 188 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 2: a culture now that they have been completely desensitized to 189 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 2: any type of sexual immorality, and the normalization of sexual 190 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 2: activity is well, that that type of sexual activity has 191 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 2: been normalized to them through their social media platforms, through television, 192 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 2: through TVs. When we look at what is acceptable on 193 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 2: a television show today versus what it was even thirty 194 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 2: and forty years ago, it's unbelievable. And so the children 195 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 2: are growing up like this, it's been normalized. A lot 196 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: of these images, kids are just trading between themselves, and 197 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: then once they're the online and they upload them onto 198 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 2: their social media platforms, they may have bad actors that 199 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 2: have portrayed themselves as kids their age, and therefore has 200 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 2: led to a huge volume of child sex abuse material 201 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 2: online and law enforcement just does not have the capabilities 202 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 2: to accurately and sufficiently investigate all of these all of 203 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 2: the crimes that are being reported now. And I would 204 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 2: say that the instances that are reported are just a 205 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 2: fraction of what's actually out there. So yeah, that's an 206 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 2: overwhelming landscape that we're viewing from a hilltop here. 207 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: And Zach I had a buddy she did crimes against children, 208 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: so they asked her to do the Internet Predator Task Force. 209 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: And she went to the local middle school and had 210 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: lunch with the children every day just to hear how 211 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: they talk, the words they're using, the slang, the you 212 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: know what's hot? Who do they like, what's their favorite 213 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: movie music, all that kind of thing, so that when 214 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: she got online she could sound like a middle school girl. 215 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: And I thought that was brilliant. And I will tell you, 216 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: y'all don't just talk the talk, honey. I mean, y'all 217 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: had great success. Y'all have already identified four hundred and 218 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: forty victims. Four hundred and forty, Zach. 219 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 3: That's one of the most rewarding parts of what we're 220 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 3: doing as a task force. So Ray mentioned the nonprofit. 221 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 3: The nonprofit is one component that has basically operated in 222 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 3: in the nonprofit world. And then we've got the sworn 223 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 3: component component, So the Invictus Project that BABA one C. Three. 224 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 3: The organization supports our law Enforcement Task Force, our Law 225 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 3: Enforcement Task Force partnership. What we're able to do is 226 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 3: go into schools with our nonprofit partner and give safety presentations, 227 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 3: give talks that hopefully educate kids, and Mike you mentioned, 228 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 3: also have those interactions with kids where we're talking one 229 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 3: on one, part a group setting sometimes so that we 230 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 3: can be better investigators of what we're doing. I think 231 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 3: what your friend did and maybe still does is a 232 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 3: great technique. I mean, kids talk very different than adults. 233 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 3: What we're finding is some of the talk online is 234 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 3: kind of merging because you've got Apple and Android devices 235 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 3: that both use autocorrect. So kids language and the past 236 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 3: may have been that shorthand where you're using that one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, 237 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 3: eight nine, you know zero keyboard that text out really 238 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 3: short messages and everybody now has the full you know, 239 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 3: the full Corty keyboard on your phone and with autocorrects. 240 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 3: So kids language and adults language is merging a little bit. 241 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 3: But going into the schools, what we found has been 242 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 3: really beneficial is we've been able to educate parents, we've 243 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 3: been able to educate teachers and children, but we're also 244 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 3: getting disclosures. So you mentioned the victim ID work that 245 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 3: we've been able to do. Some of that victim I 246 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 3: D work has just come from you know, good old 247 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 3: fashioned police work with getting into these devices and looking 248 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 3: at who either our bad guys are talking to or 249 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 3: even our victims if they're you know, they're talking to 250 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 3: other they're victims, O, they're bad guys. And then further 251 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 3: in the case, but we found as we go into 252 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 3: a school and our nonprofit partner, you know, in conjunction 253 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,239 Speaker 3: with our sworn law coursement, you know, conducts a safety presentation. 254 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 3: We get to the end of the presentation and oftentimes 255 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 3: we have kids that are ready to talk and ready 256 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 3: to mention either hands on offenses that have occurred in 257 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 3: the home or online offenses where they've you know, they've 258 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 3: been victimized or they've been talking to somebody online. So 259 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 3: that's been you know, aside from the educational component, it's 260 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 3: been very it's been very good to see. It's been 261 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 3: very rewarding for me as an investigator to see kids 262 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 3: being identified and getting services, getting help they need, just 263 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 3: based on a safety presentation that really, you know, was 264 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 3: effective with them and they felt like they could talk 265 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 3: to somebody. 266 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 1: What you're doing, I know has resulted in over seventy 267 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: five arrest But what is more impressive to me is 268 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: the eight children that y'all have rescued from immediate danger. 269 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: You know, those eight children were about to suffer at 270 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: the hands of a predator. 271 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, you know, in the nonprofit space, especially because 272 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 2: you know, we have a responsibility of reporting, you know, 273 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 2: we take our stewardship to people's resources that they freely 274 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 2: give to this fight. We take it very seriously. And 275 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 2: one of the things that we are very careful about 276 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 2: is we don't want to ever overinflate any type of 277 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 2: numbers or statistics or to claim credit for something that 278 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 2: we did not participate in or that we were not 279 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 2: a part of. And so when you know, I come 280 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 2: from the international side, I worked for many years in 281 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: the international trafficking and children space on the nonprofit side, 282 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 2: and I know that that's out there. It's very misleading, 283 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 2: it's very oversensationalized. And so when we started this journey, 284 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 2: we wanted to be very very cheerful on how we quantified. 285 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 2: You know, what do we say when we say we 286 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 2: rescued eight children in twenty twenty four, what what does 287 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 2: that mean? And so how we have chose to quantify 288 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: a rescue is that when we arrive on scene to 289 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,959 Speaker 2: affect an arrest of a suspect, that suspect is in 290 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 2: the custody or control of the children that we that 291 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 2: we classify as a rescue for example. H One that 292 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 2: will stick with me forever, you know, because keep in 293 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 2: mind is investigators, we are viewing these images, we're viewing 294 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 2: these videos that were reported and the fruits of legal 295 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 2: process that we have served to some of these platforms, 296 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 2: so that we for a couple of reasons, number one, 297 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 2: that we are actually dealing with a crime that has 298 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 2: been committed, and number two, that we can positively identify 299 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 2: who our suspect is. And so as we go through this, 300 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,679 Speaker 2: through this all of these videos and images, you know, 301 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 2: we show up to this door and it was a 302 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 2: what we believed to be a grandfather. It turned out 303 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 2: that it was in fact a grandfather that was hands 304 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 2: on offending both of his young granddaughters. I think one 305 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 2: was six and one was eight. And so when we 306 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 2: approached the house to affect the search warrant and the 307 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 2: arrest warrant of this suspect. As we approached the house, 308 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 2: the curtains separated on the front porch and there stood 309 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 2: both of those girls that were in those videos. Those 310 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 2: are the kind of things that will stick with you 311 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 2: for a lifetime and for sure, you know. So that's 312 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 2: how we quantify a rescue. If we were to try 313 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 2: to apply a number to the second third order effects 314 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 2: of the investigation of the kids that were set safeguarded 315 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 2: as a result of getting this bad actor off of 316 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 2: the street, there's no way to measure that. So we 317 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 2: don't even attempt to measure that. So when we say 318 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 2: we rescue a kid, that means that we actually removed 319 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 2: a child from the custody or care of the person 320 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 2: that was actively offending that child. 321 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 1: And I'll tell you something else, Zach. The seventy five 322 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: arrest nobody is going to offend one time, none of 323 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 1: these people. So by those seventy five arrests, I'm with Ray, 324 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,719 Speaker 1: I think that's a number y'all couldn't come up with 325 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: of the number of people that you saved that never 326 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 1: became victims. 327 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 3: Yes, so that's seventy five. I appreciate you bringing that up. 328 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 3: That's our number for twenty twenty four. We just checked 329 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 3: with it. Want to pull accurate stat for you. We're 330 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 3: at one fourteen for our numbers going in. You know, 331 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 3: as of the time of this interview as as far 332 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 3: as the Task Force inception. 333 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: I mean, y'all are freaking heroes, your freaking hero Zach 334 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: and I just got to tell you, you know, if 335 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 1: you live your whole life and you save one person, 336 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: then your life to me is marked as yep, that 337 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: was worth it. But y'all both know you and Ray 338 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: both know that y'all have saved many more because a 339 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: lot of your victims had siblings, they had neighbors, they 340 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: had friends that could have also become victims. So I 341 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: understand Ray when he says we cannot come up with 342 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: a number, but I just want people to understand it 343 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: is probably astronomical. 344 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 2: Well you know, and it's worth mentioning too that you know, 345 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 2: you bring up another good point. How do you measure 346 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 2: that number? Right? And so that is because of that 347 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 2: the difficulty in that in understanding that. What we know 348 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 2: through different studies that have been done throughout the years 349 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 2: on these child predators, the people that have interests in 350 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 2: this and for no better way to say it than 351 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 2: having sex with small children, what we know is about 352 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 2: eighty five percent of people that view child sex abuse 353 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 2: material have actually a hands on a fence with a 354 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 2: child and over their lifetime. That average is about thirteen 355 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 2: per perpetrator in their lifetime, and so that's a huge 356 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 2: number right there. And as a result of that, when 357 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 2: we conduct these investigations and we take a suspect into custody, 358 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 2: we use a couple of tools. Number one is our interview. 359 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 2: We take our interviews very seriously with these perpetrators, and 360 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 2: we have very much a victim centered approach in our interviewing. 361 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: We don't go in there and start beating them up 362 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 2: with phone books and throw them around walls. We set 363 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,479 Speaker 2: down with these with these suspects, and believe it or not, 364 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 2: they almost always want to do an interview. They want 365 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 2: to explain what happened. And we take advantage of that 366 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,919 Speaker 2: and we literally have a counseling session with these perpetrators. 367 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 2: And people ask us, well, why do you why do 368 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 2: you do that? You know, I don't know how y'all 369 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 2: do it. I just shoot them in the head. That's 370 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 2: what we hear all the time. And and my response 371 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 2: to that is this. The reason why we don't is 372 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 2: because we know that if that person is actively viewing 373 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 2: this material, there's a high likelihood that he has a 374 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 2: contact offense that we are unaware of as law enforcement, 375 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 2: So we have a victim centered approach in our interview. 376 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 2: We want to find out you know we've got you 377 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 2: when when you set down in an interview. We have 378 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 2: your phone, We've got your social media returns from search warrants, 379 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 2: we have seized your computer, we have your device. As 380 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 2: we're going through the interview, our forensic partners or downloading 381 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 2: these devices, we're getting those updates in real time. And 382 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 2: for simplicity reasons, it's very simple for us. It's like, 383 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 2: is this your phone? 384 00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: Yes? 385 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 2: Is that a naked child? 386 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 3: Child? 387 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: Yes? 388 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 2: Okay, well we got you, so in our mind we 389 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 2: already know that. So now what we're going to do 390 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 2: is we're going to leverage our rapport that we established 391 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 2: within that interview to be able to uncover any victims 392 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 2: out there that we are unaware of, because we know 393 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 2: statistically people that view this material are more likely than 394 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 2: not to have a contact offense, and we want to 395 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 2: identify as many victims as we possibly can to ensure 396 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 2: that they're safeguarded and they get the resources and help 397 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 2: that they need to recover and heal from this. 398 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: Zach, what is one thing that you would tell parents 399 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: right now they need to be aware. 400 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 3: Of as a parent myself. And we get approached with 401 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 3: that question quite a bit at these safety presentations. 402 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 2: One. 403 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 3: You know, what we found is that there's a lot 404 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 3: of a lot of folks in faith communities, churches, et cetera, misguided. 405 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 3: I think they think, well, it's not going to happen here. 406 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 3: What we're finding with a lot of your sextortion statistics 407 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 3: is it's the child that's you know, the star athlete. 408 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 3: Everything's going well for them, they're they're well behaved, they're 409 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 3: well adjusted, they go to church, et cetera. Uh, those 410 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 3: are the kids that end up getting targeted by your 411 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 3: sextortion bad actors, mainly teenage boys. Right now, we've seen 412 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 3: you know, tragic results with self harm and suicide. Uh 413 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 3: so I would you know, i'd dispel the notion that 414 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 3: it can't happen here. It can happen anywhere. But then 415 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 3: also kind of the cardinal rules for these pictures, right, 416 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 3: phones and bathrooms, phones and locker rooms, phones and bedrooms 417 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 3: do not mix. 418 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: Right. 419 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 3: A lot of these images were coming across in our 420 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 3: investigations are are either self generated by a child in 421 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 3: a bedroom setting in a bathroom setting, or it's a 422 00:26:54,440 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 3: situation where they're being extorted or told to do something thing, 423 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 3: and where are they going to go that they have 424 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 3: privacy away from parents. They're again they're going to go 425 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 3: to a place like a bathroom, a place like a bedroom, 426 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 3: or even a locker room where phones aren't supposed to 427 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 3: be anyways, and you see these images pop up, either 428 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 3: unsuspecting or that are generated, and they end up on 429 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 3: the internet and they live forever. So just I'd caution 430 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 3: parents to be aware of kind of where the phones 431 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 3: are at, where the digital devices are at in the home, 432 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 3: and act accordingly with you know, just trying to safeguard 433 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 3: their kids from you know, either harming themselves or you know, 434 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 3: doing something that might live with them forever. 435 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: I tell people all the time, think of when you 436 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: started your business, are you planning a wedding or whatever 437 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: event just totally overtook you. So I usually use the 438 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: wedding if I'm talking to churches or police academies, because 439 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: most people have been involved in a wedding on some level. 440 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: And you get engaged and you pick a date, and 441 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: then you're looking at dresses and flowers and choosing bridesmaids 442 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: and then their dresses, and you're looking at churches and 443 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: different venues, and should I be on a beach? And 444 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: then the vowels, the rings. How are we going to leave? 445 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: Or we're gonna leave on horseback or boat or a limousine. 446 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: I mean, there's all this. I mean you get into 447 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: doves and ice sculptures. Is just what song for your 448 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: first dance? I mean, this is all you can think 449 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: about when you're driving in the car, when you're working 450 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: in the garden, when you're at work, when you're with friends. 451 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: This is what family and friends are constantly asking you about. 452 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: I have a mantra and I have a good buddy 453 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: that runs all the merchandise for Zone seven, the Cold 454 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: Case Investigative Research Institute and the Wildlife CSI Academy. Jan 455 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: I'm telling y'all, she is such a gift. But I 456 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: feel like the elf and the shoemaker. I'll go to 457 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: bed and then the next morning I'll have new merchandise. 458 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: So I have a and ray. It's this. There is 459 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: no such thing as a part time predator. So you 460 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: think about your wedding all the time. They're thinking about 461 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: getting to your child all the time. They're thinking about 462 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: what's the newest video game? What can I buy somebody? 463 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: Where are the children at? Where are the children when 464 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: the parents aren't there? How can I get to this child? 465 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: What do I need to say to this child? What 466 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: has worked for somebody else that I've talked to in 467 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: one of these chat rooms? How can I get a picture? 468 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: How can I get the child to send me something? 469 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: How can I get the child to tell me where 470 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: they live? This is all they do. So whether it's 471 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: a child sex predator, a serial killer, a rapist, or 472 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: a stalker, they are full time. So Ray, you and 473 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: Zach can't investigate them or track them or hunt them 474 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: part time and think you're going to be successful. It's 475 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: got to be full time that you come after these predators. 476 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 2: Well, you know what, that's a great point because one 477 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 2: of the unique aspects of the task force is, and 478 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 2: I mentioned it earlier, but it's worth kind of drilling 479 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 2: down on that, is that our investigators have no collateral duties. 480 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 2: Across the nation, most agencies have a i CAC what 481 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 2: we refer to as IQAQ Internet Crimes against Children, they 482 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 2: have normally an investigator. But what we see across the board, 483 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 2: number one, they have nowhere near enough of them, and 484 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 2: they're under resource and don't have all of the equipment 485 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 2: that's needed because this is a technical fight. There's a 486 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 2: lot of expensive equipment and software that goes along with 487 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 2: this fight. But apart from that, they also have collateral duties. 488 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 2: So not only are they the ICAC investigator, but they're 489 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 2: also doing people crimes and property crimes, and that's one 490 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 2: of the things that sets our task force. Apart our 491 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 2: investigators have no collateral duties, and because of that, we 492 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 2: are able to shift from that reactive posture to a 493 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 2: proactive posture, and that's where we're taking We're literally hunting 494 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 2: these people. And law enforcement historically is always in a 495 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 2: reactive posture. A crime is committed, it's reported, it's investigated, 496 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 2: and some type of enforcement action is taken, but the 497 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 2: crime has already been committed, the victim has been offended. 498 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 2: Our approach is to shift out of that reactive posture 499 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 2: into a proactive posture where we are actively pursuing the 500 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 2: perpetrator in hopes to be able to either prevent them 501 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 2: from offending another victim or offending a victim at all, 502 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 2: whether it be their first victim or an additional victim 503 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 2: and because of that, we take on our you know, 504 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 2: we take our proactive approach very serious in whether it 505 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 2: be in peer to peer operations or in undercover chat operations. 506 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 2: And in these undercover chat operations, what we are seeing 507 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 2: when you talk about these predators and how they're thinking 508 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 2: of how how am I going to approach this child 509 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 2: and what behavior do I need to invoke in order 510 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 2: to solicit the response that I desire from the child. 511 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 2: And what we're seeing in our UC capacity is that 512 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 2: these predators now are so emboldened because of the large 513 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 2: number of kids that are online and that are this 514 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 2: sexualization of young kids has been normalized within their peer group, 515 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 2: that these predators are emboldened that. I will tell you, 516 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 2: when you jump on in a chat room and portray 517 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 2: yourself as a twelve or thirteen year old child, within minutes, 518 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 2: you're being sexually solicited. I mean, it's almost instantaneously, and 519 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 2: they get right to it. They do not they don't 520 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 2: spend a lot of time trying to warm you up, 521 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 2: if you will. 522 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: If a child gets online today, they are either extremely 523 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: young because they're brand new because otherwise they would have 524 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: been on, or they're sheltered and just now have been 525 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: able to get online. Either way, you're a fresh target 526 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: because you are not skilled, you are not advanced. You 527 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: do not know what's coming at you. Like in the 528 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: prison system, you're fresh meat the minute you walk in 529 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: and they've never seen you before. You don't know the rules, 530 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: you don't know who's coming at you, you don't know 531 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: who to trust. They can get at you and manipulate 532 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: you faster because you're naive. 533 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,719 Speaker 2: Well I think they get it you and manipulate you 534 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 2: faster because you're a child. 535 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: Sure of course. 536 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 2: To that point is that a lot of these kids, 537 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 2: it's very rare to find a child that's new to 538 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 2: being online. But not only that, what they're not new 539 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 2: to is they're not new to being sexually exploited. They're 540 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 2: not They're used to being solicited online to the point 541 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 2: that it's normalized to them. 542 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: And we see these. 543 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 2: Bad actors have no problem telling you that their age. 544 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 2: Hey you're twelve years old, I'm fifty four. Are you 545 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 2: okay with that? I mean we're seeing that in these 546 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,839 Speaker 2: chats that we have. So the truth is scarier than 547 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 2: our you know, fictional imagination, believe it or not. And 548 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 2: that's why parents have to be involved in the online 549 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 2: presence of their children without a doubt. 550 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: Well, I cannot thank both of you enough for coming. 551 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: Your work is I mean, it's just heroic. That's that's 552 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: the only word that comes to my mind, because I 553 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: don't know what's above heroic, but that's the work you're doing. 554 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: And I just appreciate both of you. I know it 555 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: is difficult work. It is I think one of the 556 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: worst jobs in law enforcement, but it's the most critical 557 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: in some aspects. So I just appreciate you both so much. 558 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 3: We really appreciate you having us. 559 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for having us. We enjoyed it, y'all. 560 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I 561 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: always do with a quote. Let's stop calling them sex offenders, 562 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 1: as if any of their crimes have anything to do 563 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: with sex. Perhaps Jeffrey Dahmer was a food offender, Mike Lou, 564 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is Zone seven.