1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump says he was the 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: one who told Malania to threaten Hunter Biden with a 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: one billion dollar lawsuit. We have such a great show 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: for you today as the world churns Andy Leevey stops 7 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: by to talk about the media's role in letting Trump 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: subvert the law. Then we'll talk to author Jason Stanley 9 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: about how to read Trump's play in the Fascist Playbook. 10 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 2: But first the news. 11 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 3: It's May the DC Attorney General is suing the Trump 12 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 3: administration to stop the police takeover so they don't chase 13 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 3: down people in West End who are throwing sandwiches. 14 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 2: Yes, it's called sandwich Gate. 15 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: Well, and it's the story of a man and a sandwich. No. 16 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: So here's what's happened. We have a very Nightmari scenario 17 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: in the District of Columbia, something that we all saw 18 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: coming when DC was denied statehood. Right, Trump can do 19 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: whatever he wants to DC. It has no protection. It's 20 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: not a state. It's not protected. It's this weird sort 21 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: of amorphous thing. So Donald Trump, when he can do 22 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,839 Speaker 1: what he wants. He is doing what he wants, and 23 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: we are watching him do this authoritarian takeover of the 24 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: district of Columbia. This is what it looks like. This 25 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: is what authoritarianism looks like. So we knew this was coming. 26 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: Thank you Kristin Cinema and Joe Manchin for making sure 27 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: that Democrats couldn't use the filibuster because, by the way, 28 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: that would have crushed norms and institutions. And so here we. 29 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 3: Are sending Kristin a glass of wine across the bar 30 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 3: at whatever wine tasting she's at today. 31 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 4: Yeah. 32 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 3: So, speaking of other dystopian things coming out of Washington, 33 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 3: the White House now has a loyalty rating for companies. 34 00:01:58,160 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 3: Definitely doesn't feel fascy. 35 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 2: Well, it doesn't feel fascy except it does. 36 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: But it also is so deeply anti capitalist, right, Like, 37 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: the whole idea of capitalism is that you have companies 38 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: that do things, And here we have kubodies that are 39 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: being rated on whether or not they're nice enough to Trump, right, 40 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: the nice enough to the administration so that Trump will 41 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: let them live. 42 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: This is like crony capitalism. This is the worst of 43 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 2: crony capitalism. 44 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're really seeing it as the way whether they're 45 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 3: going to buy stock in Intel Chips, which is hilarious, 46 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 3: that's a competitor to Apple, who just sucked up to Trump. 47 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: All of these companies could have done something. They could 48 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: have said we're not going to do this, we're not 49 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: going to behave this way, and it would have been 50 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: really great. It wouldn't have been great, but it would 51 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: have made everything slow down. 52 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,399 Speaker 2: But what happened here is that all these companies kick 53 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 2: themselves just to go along with Trump, and so now. 54 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: There's a kind of competition to suck up to Trump, 55 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: and that means that company is involved in this kind 56 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: of authoritarian push and it's just incredibly dark. You know, 57 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 1: it's exactly what we had all wanted to avoid. 58 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking of avoiding things, it's kind of funny like 59 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 3: you and I both know DC geography well as one 60 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 3: of us has a lot of family there and another 61 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 3: has visited a lot, and everybody's kind of noticing this 62 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 3: thing that the presence of all the footage they're getting, 63 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 3: it's like those are really not where the crime is 64 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,119 Speaker 3: in DC. And you're kind of like, hmmm, I wonder why. 65 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, there's none of this is about fighting crime. All 66 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 5: of this is about authoritarian show of force. Right, They're 67 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 5: not going in neighborhoods where there's a lot of crime. 68 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 5: They're putting up these stops on Fourteenth Street. My friend said, 69 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 5: they have a checkpoint at the bottom of her street. 70 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 5: You know, this is not about safety. This is all 71 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 5: about intimidation, right, be in the nice neighborhood show fancy 72 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 5: people that you have power over them. Have a guy 73 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 5: who you can't see his face, stop your car. 74 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 2: I mean, this is exactly that one hundred percent. 75 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 3: It really is ridiculous because, like, we can't deny that 76 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 3: there is areas of every single city that have crime 77 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 3: because cities have poor populations, because that is how cities work, 78 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 3: and poor populations do disproportionately commit crime. But yet walking 79 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 3: the national ball where the crime map is invisible. 80 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: Is not that Yeah, that's exactly right. 81 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 3: So this is a pretty interesting thing. Some of the 82 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 3: people who can sense these type of things are saying 83 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 3: that the doga seems a little nervous about all of 84 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 3: Trump's tariff lawsuits and whether they're actually going to hold 85 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 3: up and he's going to be able to keep doing 86 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 3: these tariffs that are really going to doom his popularity, 87 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 3: since my group chats are lighting up with people who 88 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 3: are not happy about getting tariff bills in the mail 89 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 3: these days. 90 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this is such a crazy, crazy, stupid 91 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: thing to do. There are people who are as powerful 92 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: as Trump, like the Kochs, who are on this other 93 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: side of this tariff thing, who have relationships with this 94 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: incredibly corrupt Supreme Court, who desperately want to stop these tariffs, 95 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: and who very well might be able to stop these tariffs. 96 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 5: The administration knows they may be on the wrong side 97 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 5: of things with the tariffs. Also, there were just these 98 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 5: crazy numbers that were released that are super inflationary. The 99 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 5: consumer sentiment number is terrible. That inflation number from yesterday 100 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 5: I ticked up like three points. I mean, inflation is here. 101 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 5: The tariffs are causing it. It's a straight line. And 102 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 5: the other thing about inflation, which none of us totally 103 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 5: know how to deal with this Once Trump says uncle, 104 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 5: which eventually he will, I don't know how you get 105 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 5: the prices back down. 106 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 4: No, he probably don't. 107 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 3: I've seen no one give a good answer to that. 108 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 2: Andy Levy is the co host of As the World Churned. 109 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 2: Andy Levy Wally jogfast. Welcome to Fast Politics. 110 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 4: I don't know you were going to be here. 111 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, what are the odds you and me? 112 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 6: Yeah? I know, I thought I was just chatting for 113 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 6: like twenty minutes, like monologuing. 114 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: Listen to me, Andy Levy. Things are going great in 115 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: the federal government. Oh yeah, just a cake walk. What 116 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: is this thing that you're the most worried about? 117 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: Now? 118 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 4: That is sort of the question, isn't it? 119 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 6: But it's also almost impossible to answer it because it 120 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 6: changes every day and sometimes multiple times a day. 121 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 4: I mean, I guess right now it's. 122 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 6: The government crackdowns, the federal takeover of DC and the 123 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 6: threats of doing this to more cities. And you know, 124 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 6: it's starting to look very much like like a playbook 125 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 6: at this point, you know, like this is what they 126 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 6: want to do. And you know, I was thinking, there's 127 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 6: that's famous Obama phrase from I think when he was 128 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 6: first running, when he said we're not blue states and 129 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 6: red states. 130 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:07,679 Speaker 4: Where the United States? 131 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 6: I think with this administration, they also they agree that 132 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 6: we're not the blue states and the red states, and 133 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 6: they're just in their mind we're just the red states 134 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 6: and that's what they want. They want fifty red states, 135 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 6: so they have absolutely no compunction. And you're seeing this 136 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 6: from the you know, the conservative media sphere and whatever, 137 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 6: who are sort of gleefully making lists of what city 138 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 6: should be next, and surprise, surprise, it's San Francisco, it's 139 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 6: New York, it's Los Angeles. You know, it's the big, 140 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 6: it's the big, beautiful blue cities. 141 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 4: So look, they really are. 142 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 6: They're obviously doing the you know, throw as much shit 143 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 6: against the wall as possible and see what sticks method. 144 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 6: So it makes it hard to sort of identify which 145 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 6: is the overall scariest. 146 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 4: Thing they're doing or most dangerous thing they're doing. 147 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 6: But this one right now seems like because it seems like, 148 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 6: like I said, it seems a little bit like a 149 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 6: playbook like that there's an end goal here of doing 150 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 6: this in as many blue cities as they can get 151 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 6: away with, and basically taking all the power away from 152 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 6: those localities and from those Americans who live in those 153 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 6: cities and who vote in those cities, and work in 154 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 6: those cities, and in producer Jesse Cannon's case, drink in 155 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 6: those cities. 156 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 4: And they are trying. 157 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 6: Desperately the places where they can't win at the ballot box. 158 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 4: They're trying to win by other measures. Is I think 159 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 4: what I'm saying. 160 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: So sato populism is this idea we just I just 161 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: talked about it with Jason Stanley that part of the 162 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 1: joy you find in populism is your syndistic desires to own. 163 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: The libs, to make poor people suffer. Is that what 164 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 2: we're working at right now? 165 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 6: Oh? 166 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 4: I mean, that's a really I had never heard that 167 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 4: word before. 168 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 6: I don't know if he coined it, but but it's 169 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 6: it's a good word. 170 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 4: And no, I think that's true. 171 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 6: And you can look at you know, you look at 172 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 6: the memes that are coming out of the White House 173 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 6: and various governmental agencies, and they're all predicated on meanness. 174 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 6: Seems it seems like an understatement. I mean, you look 175 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 6: at it and you say to yourself, you know, well, 176 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 6: that's just mean. But you realize as you're saying it 177 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 6: that how much of an understatement that is. You know, 178 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 6: this is not someone in the cafeteria making fun of 179 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 6: your shirt. But you look at the mindset behind everything 180 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 6: that they're doing, and you look at the white nationalist 181 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 6: memes and the absolute glee at other people's misfortune, particularly 182 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 6: if those people aren't white, or aren't straight, or aren't Christian, 183 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 6: aren't male, and yeah, it's hard to come to any 184 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 6: other conclusion. 185 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 4: Then this is a big part of the game. 186 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 6: And this is Look, this has always been a big 187 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 6: part of fascism. I think we're way beyond the point 188 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 6: of debating whether it's okay to call. 189 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 4: What's going on fascist. 190 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 6: It just very clearly is, and it very clearly is 191 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 6: the mindset. And again you see it in the memes, 192 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 6: you see it in the messaging that they are trying 193 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 6: to put out, which is that you know, you are 194 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 6: not welcome here if you are not like us, and 195 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 6: you know, removing things from museums that ill PRESIDENTE doesn't 196 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 6: like or doesn't comport with his view of America as 197 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 6: this literally a perfect union and you can't come to 198 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 6: any other conclusion. And it's been like this for a while. 199 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 6: But there are always people who said, well, you know, 200 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 6: I don't know if it's okay to use the F word, 201 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 6: to say fascism. We are so far behind that, and 202 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 6: I cannot imagine in August of the year of Our 203 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 6: Lord twenty twenty five looking around and thinking, well, I'm 204 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 6: still not sold that this is fascist. 205 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 4: It's pure, uncut fascist. 206 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 2: So what do you think. 207 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: About like the smart people who are on the right 208 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: who are going along with this, because you know a 209 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: lot of those people, Like do you think that they 210 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: are like, yes, it's fascism, or do you think that 211 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: they're just having fun. 212 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 6: I think it's a case by case basis. And you know, 213 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 6: this is similar to a sort of thing. I don't 214 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 6: do it so much anymore because ultimately it doesn't matter. 215 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 6: But you know, I used to play this game. I 216 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:13,599 Speaker 6: used to play it with other people that I was 217 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 6: friendly with, who knew the personnel, and try to figure 218 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 6: out who what Fox News really believed what they were saying, 219 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 6: and who just wanted the paycheck and the adoration and 220 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 6: you know, the fame. And I think you really do 221 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 6: have to take it on a case by case basis 222 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 6: because I think there are the true believers on the right, 223 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 6: smart or otherwise, who have absolutely no problems with fascism, 224 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 6: and maybe they never did, or maybe they have. 225 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 4: Just come around to it. 226 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 6: And then you have the ones who you know, maybe 227 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,839 Speaker 6: deep in their heart they're not fascist and they don't 228 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 6: necessarily love everything that's going on, but they're going along 229 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 6: with it and promoting it to advance their own careers. 230 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 6: It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, and it never mattered. 231 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 6: You are what you're doing in a case like this, 232 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 6: and whether you're promoting this shit because you believe it 233 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 6: in your soul or because you somehow think it's good 234 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 6: for your career, it ultimately doesn't matter. And I'm never 235 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 6: sure what the answer to this is. Are the true 236 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 6: fascists worse than the ones who are costplaying fascism just. 237 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 4: To get ahead? Like, because you can sit there and say, well, 238 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 4: the true fascists. 239 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 6: At least they honestly believe this, whereas the other ones 240 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 6: it's like, really, you'll go along with this because it 241 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 6: gets you some money and keeps your face on TV. 242 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 6: But then the flip side of that is, obviously you 243 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 6: know the true fascist what they believe, Like, it doesn't 244 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 6: matter that they're sincere in their beliefs. Their beliefs are abhorring, 245 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 6: Their beliefs are awful, their beliefs are straight up evil. 246 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 6: So I don't know the answer the overall answer your question, Molly, 247 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 6: other than to say I do think it's a case 248 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 6: by case basis. I don't think you can paint a 249 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 6: broad brush and say, oh, they're all doing this because X. 250 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 6: I think there's really two different groups and you have 251 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 6: to name and then you can say, oh, that person 252 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 6: is a true believer or oh that person is absolutely cost. 253 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 4: Playing and they don't really believe this shit? 254 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 2: How do you sell it to yourself? 255 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 4: Then I don't know. I will never understand that. 256 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 6: I don't understand the you know, I've been saying this 257 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 6: a lot lately, like beyond, I don't know how a 258 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 6: lot of these people sleep at night, Like how do 259 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 6: you look in the mirror? And I always think when 260 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 6: you were a kid, it's just what you dreamed of 261 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 6: growing When I grow up, I want to be someone 262 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 6: who lies on TV for money. Maybe there are people 263 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 6: who are so you know, sociopathic that the answer is yes. 264 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 4: But for a lot of these people, I don't think 265 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 4: the answer was yes. 266 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 6: I don't think it was a lifelong dream to get 267 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 6: on the TV or to get on the internet, and 268 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 6: why for a living? And I don't know how you 269 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 6: live with yourself doing that. I couldn't do it. And 270 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 6: I don't think that makes me a great person. I 271 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 6: think that makes me a person, you know, So I 272 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 6: don't understand this and and this sort of piggyback to 273 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 6: a thought I've been having lately with regard to like 274 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 6: cable news in any place that has a lot of 275 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 6: these people on as guests, whether they're maga politicians or 276 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 6: maga commentators, you know, these people are lying to you, 277 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 6: and you can say while you're lying, but I don't 278 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 6: understand how you interview these people and you don't sit 279 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 6: there and say to them. 280 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 4: Well, you don't believe that, because that's what it comes 281 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 4: out to. 282 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 6: You hear these people saying things, and they'll say something 283 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 6: about how, you know, I'm afraid to walk down the 284 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 6: streets of New York in broad daylight. 285 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 4: These interviewers, instead of letting that go, they need to say, no, 286 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 4: you're not. 287 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 6: You don't believe that, Like, they need to be called 288 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 6: out on this shit, because they are straight up lying 289 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 6: or making shit up. And we're pretending to have these 290 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 6: serious discussions about you know, is New York safe to 291 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 6: walk down the street in the middle of the day. 292 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 4: Maybe on the left will tell you it is, but here, 293 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 4: our guest today will tell you it's not. And it's like, no, 294 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 4: fuck off. 295 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 6: Start calling these people out for their bullshit and start 296 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 6: calling them out for the fact that it's not just 297 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 6: that they're wrong, it's that they don't believe what they 298 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 6: themselves are saying, and call them on it and say 299 00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 6: you don't believe. 300 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: That right and you thing happens. 301 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 6: Then I don't know. I don't know if maybe they 302 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 6: stop coming on or what, but I think it needs 303 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 6: to be done. We have to stop in the media 304 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 6: bears so much responsibility for this, for normalizing all this 305 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 6: shit and for taking it seriously, and for pretending to 306 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 6: have debates about stuff that should not be debated because 307 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 6: it's not debatable and one side is just making stuff up. 308 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 4: And this goes for everything. 309 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 6: This goes for whether it's vaccines or you know, DEI 310 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 6: or whatever. Stop letting the right make shit up and 311 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 6: stop people on the left. Stop having these quote unquote 312 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 6: intellectual conversations with people who are making things up. Stop 313 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 6: presenting the other side, because it's not the other side, 314 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 6: it's the truth. And you don't need to sit there 315 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 6: with someone who tells you that vaccines are killing people, 316 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 6: because all you're doing by having that debate is elevating 317 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 6: it to both sides have equal standing thing, and instead 318 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 6: of that, you need to start telling people. You don't 319 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 6: believe that. You are saying that to get on TV. 320 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 6: You are saying that to advance your career, You are 321 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 6: saying that to please Donald Trump. But you know that's 322 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 6: not true. You don't believe that, And see what happens. 323 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 6: There's a reason I'm not a cable news host because 324 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 6: that show would follow me be off the air at 325 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 6: five minutes. Yeah, So let me ask you. 326 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: You have this sort of unforgivable stuff going on, right 327 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: You have people being run around by I say, gents, 328 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: you have checkpoints, I mean, just shocking stuff. Do you 329 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: think that it feels like the only way that any 330 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: of this stops is if people like people are clearly 331 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: not happy. 332 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 2: The polling is terrible on this. But I don't know 333 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 2: what that leads to. 334 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 4: I don't know what it leads to either. 335 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 6: I mean, I don't know if it means more beautiful 336 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 6: sandwiches being wasted, you know, in the sense that you're 337 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 6: not being eaten, but because they've become a symbol of resistance, 338 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 6: I don't know. 339 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 4: I don't know the answer. 340 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 6: And I don't know how far they can push before 341 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 6: the pushback becomes more than it is. And I do 342 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 6: know that if and when this is all over, I 343 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 6: don't want to see any truth and reconciliation bullshit, and 344 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 6: I don't want to see any you know. Well, we 345 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 6: need to move forward, and we need to forget that 346 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 6: all this stuff just happened. I know, I want people 347 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 6: in prison. I'd be happy if we brought back exile 348 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 6: and just sent them all to an island with no 349 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 6: gear and no food and they can fight for their 350 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 6: own survival because they think they're the alphas. Let them 351 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 6: go prove it somewhere outside of America. But I don't 352 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 6: want to hear shit. And I think Joe Biden, you know, 353 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 6: really screwed this up. And I don't think his intentions 354 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,719 Speaker 6: were bad, not just Joe Biden, the Democratic establishment in general, 355 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 6: sort of giving a pass to a lot of the 356 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 6: January sixth stuff and just letting this stuff fester and 357 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 6: trying to pretend that we could just move past what happened. 358 00:17:58,400 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 6: And a lot of that is how we got where 359 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 6: we are now, and that shouldn't be forgotten, and nothing 360 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 6: they're doing. 361 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 4: Now should be forgotten. 362 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 6: The elimination of due process, the unlawful taking over of cities, 363 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 6: kidnapping people on the streets, and sending them to foreign countries. 364 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 4: Who should not have that being done to them. I 365 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 4: don't know. 366 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 6: It goes on and on, the removal of stuff from museums. 367 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 6: Every single one of these things should not be forgotten 368 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 6: and should not be glossed over again. If and when 369 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 6: we get through this, there has to be a reckoning. 370 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 6: There doesn't have to be reconciliation, and there should not 371 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 6: be reconciliation. 372 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: Andy Levy, I think you're right, But I also I'm 373 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: not sure that Democrats have the stomach for that, if 374 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: it even happens. 375 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 2: So who is the big villain here? If on the 376 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:49,880 Speaker 2: Democratic side, Merrick. 377 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 6: Garland, god, I guess to quote top Gun, the list 378 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 6: is long but distinguished. I can make you a list 379 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 6: of people who definitely didn't help, and Merk Garland would 380 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 6: be high on that list. Think Joe Biden helped, But 381 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 6: I say that with a lot of caveats. I think 382 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 6: on this particular front, Joe Biden didn't help. Joe Biden's 383 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 6: sort of twentieth century for lack of a better way 384 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 6: to call it, twentieth century political mind reach across the aisle. 385 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 4: It's just very. 386 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 6: Clear to everyone who is not a Democratic politician or 387 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 6: consultant that that shit is over look. Democratic leadership has 388 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 6: been god awful, the Democratic consultant class. I was going 389 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 6: to say something that I probably shouldn't say. Yeah, not great. 390 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 6: I don't need to hear from James Carville ever again. 391 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 6: I don't need to hear from Bill Clinton ever again. Honestly, 392 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 6: I don't need to hear from Hillary Clinton like the Clinton's. 393 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 6: You know, go enjoy your life. I'm not saying I 394 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 6: wish Hillary Clinton ill. I'm just saying, go enjoy your life. 395 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 6: James Carvill, go enjoy your life like go go, go 396 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 6: sit on a porch and sip whiskey. God bless, but 397 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 6: stop writing eds with horrible, horrible advice. 398 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 4: I'm using him. It's not just him. 399 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 6: I'm using him as sort of an avatar of the 400 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 6: Democratic political class. 401 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 4: And they are not up for this. 402 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 6: And they don't understand the world in which we live 403 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 6: in twenty twenty five. They understand the world in which 404 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 6: we lived in nineteen ninety five. But that world is dead, 405 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 6: and I'm not saying it won't ever come back. There 406 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 6: may be a time again in America's future where we 407 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 6: all can just get along, but right now is not 408 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 6: that time, and that is not what we need from 409 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 6: our democratic minority leaders in the House and Senate. It's 410 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 6: not what we need from democratic governors, and it's not 411 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 6: what we need from democratic consultants. 412 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 2: Andy Levy, I hope you'll come back. 413 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 6: I will come back, Molly, maybe to talk about something 414 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 6: more fun. 415 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 416 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: Jason Stanley is a professor at the Monks School of 417 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: Global Affairs and Public Policy, as well as the author 418 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: of Racing History, How Fascist We write the Past to 419 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 1: control the future. Welcome to Fast Politics, Jason Stanley. 420 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 2: I'm Mollie. I know you feel bad for me, all right, 421 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 2: full disclosure. 422 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: I am in Los Angeles going to do Bill Maher, 423 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: likely going to ruin my life by being yelled at 424 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: by all of whatever. We're putting the fun in fascism here. 425 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: Let's talk about we got streets filled with people from 426 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: enforcement agencies, some of which are ICE, some of which 427 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: are whatever. 428 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 2: They're unmarked. 429 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: I mean, talk me through what the sort of its 430 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: Oraitorian healthscape we're looking. 431 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 2: At here is. 432 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 7: I'm in DC now not to meet with any politicians, 433 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 7: but to go to my nephew's bar mitzpah. You know 434 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 7: it reminds me a little bit about what they said 435 00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 7: about the military parades. It's kind of joky, but it 436 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 7: is a show of power. It's showing that Trump is 437 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 7: repeatedly showing that he can do whatever he wants, and 438 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 7: that's the he can impose martial law. 439 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 4: He can do whatever he wants. It's all haphazard here. 440 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 7: I'm not sure there's really any organization in DC, but 441 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 7: as we've seen from Los Angeles, they can crack down 442 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 7: hard when they want to. And I think the thing 443 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 7: that I'm thinking about most right now is Ice. It 444 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 7: is the new Ice recruitment because historically speaking, it looks 445 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 7: a lot like the storm up time in the Essay 446 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 7: when the Nazis were like, hey, street goat goons, We're 447 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 7: going to pay you and give you uniforms to do 448 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 7: what you're doing anyway. So it looks historically that sort 449 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 7: of recruitment of Trump's own personal security force looks very 450 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 7: bad when you put it in that historical context. 451 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: And the Homeland secure stuff, like the art that the 452 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: Homeland Security people are posting. Talk to me about these 453 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: homeland security posts. 454 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 2: Right. 455 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 7: So, there was an interesting article today in Mother Jones. 456 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 7: I was interviewed for it. About exactly the Homeland security posts. 457 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 7: The author pointed out that the daily stormer of the 458 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 7: far right neo nazi rag Online Rags said in twenty seventeen, 459 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 7: make sure people don't know whether or. 460 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 4: Not you're kidding. 461 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 7: So we're seeing a lot of that happening, like, oh, 462 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 7: we're just kidding, but in fact we're really not kidding. 463 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 7: But the idea is to have fun with horror. Timothy 464 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 7: Snyder has this concept sato populism, like taking pleasure and 465 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 7: the pain of others, and that's what this regime is selling. 466 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 7: They're selling sato populism. They're selling owning the Libs and 467 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,199 Speaker 7: with cruelty towards people that the lib roles supposedly are 468 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 7: empathetic with. So you're supposed to get joy that they're 469 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 7: really bashing heads, splitting apart families, sending people, destroying thousands 470 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 7: of people's lives by erecting concentration camps, and it's all 471 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 7: a funny joke. And the real joke is watching the liberals, 472 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 7: who care about these people becomes so outraged and scream 473 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 7: and complain. 474 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 4: That's the fuel. Owning the Libs is the fuel of 475 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 4: the global fascist search right. 476 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: But in Germany, there was this record high unemployment. So 477 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: Hitler came to power on all of these people who 478 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 1: had fought in the First World War now being homeless, 479 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: having nothing to do, having no purpose, seeing your government 480 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: fail them. 481 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 2: That's not exactly the same scenario here, is it. 482 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 7: No, So that was long an objection to the use 483 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 7: of the term fascism, that the material conditions of fascism 484 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 7: weren't not that we weren't facing some sort of dramatic 485 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 7: we weren't emerging out of the ashes of the financial 486 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 7: crisis with huge unemployment, we weren't emerging from World War 487 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:15,239 Speaker 7: War one situation, so therefore it couldn't be fascism, you know. 488 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 7: I think what we can say is that the material 489 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 7: conditions for this kind of politics, you know, can can 490 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 7: come out of resentment, you know. We we can speculate 491 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 7: on why this politics is exactly as successful as it 492 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 7: was in the early thirties German. 493 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, but that's not what I mean. I'm not 494 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 2: making a case against not calling fascism. What I'm saying. 495 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 1: Is right, I know, but you have these people, like 496 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why Hitler was successful was because 497 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: you had all these people who had nothing to do, right, 498 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: it wasn't like you had record low unemployment. It was 499 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: like you had So it's more of just a pragmatic question, 500 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: not an ideological question. 501 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 7: Yeah, no, I took it as such. I mean, the 502 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 7: ice bonuses are crazy. Fifty thousand dollars signing bonus, sixty 503 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 7: thousand dollars off your student loans, which is a little ironic. 504 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 7: Yeah right, It's it's like these are We're talking life 505 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 7: changing amounts of money for many people. I mean, fifty 506 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 7: thousand dollars signing bonus would be a life changing amount 507 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 7: of money for me, and I'm well off. So you know, 508 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 7: we're going to see and God knows what their salaries 509 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 7: are going to be. So these are essentially bribes. I 510 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 7: mean we see this with a Russian army, right as 511 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,959 Speaker 7: well that the Russian Army. Now they're paying people enormous 512 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 7: amounts of money to join. 513 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 4: So I think even in you know, this is a. 514 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:50,239 Speaker 7: Creating a violent governmental force ungoverned by laws, that is 515 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 7: highly that is highly compensated, and so I'm not sure 516 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 7: you need you know, I mean, we have record low unemployment, 517 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 7: but we also have extreme wealth and equality, and you know, 518 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 7: fifty thousand dollars signing bonus is a lot for a 519 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:06,199 Speaker 7: lot of people. 520 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,719 Speaker 1: Yes, but if you get that, you still need to 521 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: be able to have people be willing to do the 522 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: things that they're unwilling to do. 523 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 7: Usually how does that work exactly? So this is interesting. 524 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 7: It's a piece I'm writing now. The moral injury involved 525 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 7: in being an ice agent will be something you will 526 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 7: have to live with for the rest of your life. 527 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 7: We know that those sort of actions that they're encouraging 528 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 7: people that you would have to do as an ice agent, 529 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 7: you know, arresting a parent in an immigration court as 530 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 7: their kids or partners screams and cries while you drag 531 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,479 Speaker 7: them away to be sent to a concentration camp and 532 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 7: then to the Sudan or something, you know, where their 533 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 7: life is over. These are things that will affect people 534 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 7: for the rest of their lives. So you need some 535 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,199 Speaker 7: kind of governing ideology. You need payments, but then you 536 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 7: also need a going ideology. And here we can also 537 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 7: look to history like Himmler's posing speeches. So I'm writing 538 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,439 Speaker 7: a piece on this now where he's speaking to the 539 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 7: ass and saying, you know that, you know it's terrible 540 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 7: the job you do and you are the best of humans, 541 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 7: so you feel terribly when you do this job. However, 542 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 7: since you are uba mentioned you're superhumans, you know that 543 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 7: it's necessary. You can overcome the first order feeling of 544 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 7: pain at killing people and brutalizing them because you know 545 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 7: that it's for this higher purpose preventing the poisoning of 546 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 7: the blood of our people. 547 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 4: So that's going to be what they need to do. 548 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 4: They need to instill. 549 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 7: This idea that this is for a greater purpose, and 550 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 7: you understand this greater purpose and that makes you smarter 551 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 7: and better. Now Here, we're really bumping into dark places 552 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 7: and human and human psyche that we've tried to figure 553 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 7: out for many, many decades, how people can do atrocities, 554 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 7: how people can revel in these atrocities. I don't think 555 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 7: we solve these problems, but I think we know that 556 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 7: people that the ice agents that will be hired, that 557 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 7: come in, the ice agents that now serve you know, 558 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 7: they're going to undergrow tremendous moral injury like soldiers do. 559 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 7: They also will have to know that their grandkids will 560 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 7: not be proud of them, will be ashamed of them. 561 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 7: And so Granddaddy interned Japanese people in tournment caps. You know, 562 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 7: that's not something that you find grandkids bragging about. Now, 563 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 7: So you'll have the moral injury. They'll need to treat 564 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 7: the moral injury with humor, with you know, the kind 565 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 7: of over cruelty. And then the question is how much 566 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 7: will Americans go for that? How much will Americans go 567 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 7: for this combination of you know, the ideology high mind, 568 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 7: we have to save America from the poisoning of its 569 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 7: blood by immigrants on the one side, and the other 570 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 7: this kind of laughing cruelty that it's like, you know, 571 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 7: get into it. 572 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 2: It's fun, it's torture and cruelty. I see it as 573 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 2: a moral. 574 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 7: And an ethical and psychological disaster coming because I've lived 575 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 7: in countries like Germany for years, so I know it's 576 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 7: very difficult. 577 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 4: You know, it does wear on you for life. 578 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: I don't want to be overly optimistic here, but it 579 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: doesn't feel like you have quite the right combination of 580 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: factors to go full not to We. 581 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 7: Have to remember the final solution doesn't start till nineteen 582 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 7: forty one, when they're like, okay, we can't send to 583 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 7: choose away. 584 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 4: We need to get rid of them completely. 585 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 7: What we're having now is we're having concentration coumts, zones 586 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 7: of lawlessness where people don't really have access through lawyers. 587 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 4: There's no real rule of law. Inside Alligator Alcatraz. 588 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 7: We have congress people getting arrested for trying to look 589 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 7: into these zones of lawlessness. So we're at the beginning here. 590 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 7: And I think, as we can see also from our 591 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 7: prison system, which is notoriously brutal, that things get bad 592 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 7: really quickly when people aren't looking and when people can't walk. 593 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 7: They're exhibiting this incredible power over the law. We can 594 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 7: stup you into unmarked bounds, we can put you in 595 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 7: places where you don't have accessed the lawyers, you don't 596 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,719 Speaker 7: have accessed the courts, journalists can't see you. We're going 597 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 7: to brag about how bad these conditions are. So yeah, 598 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 7: that is far far from auschite, but it's pretty bad. 599 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 7: I don't know if we should be saying to ourselves, well, 600 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 7: we're not doing gas chambers, so hold on, So it's 601 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 7: not that bad. 602 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, I mean that's not what I'm saying. 603 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: I'm just sort of trying to game out how it 604 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: goes and what it looks like and that I think 605 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: is a real question. 606 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 2: So what would you say would be the way to 607 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 2: push back on all of this? 608 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, you know, the model is always the 609 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 7: civil rights movement fight against jen Crow right to try 610 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 7: to spur empathy. Empathy is being attacked and ridiculed, right, 611 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 7: that's like what these means and what these it's meant 612 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 7: to show? It's weak and like you're a liberal if 613 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 7: you care about this, and isn't it more fun to 614 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 7: torture people and. 615 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 2: Laugh about it? 616 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 7: And you know, So the question is can we draw 617 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 7: on those resources that Martin Luther King drew on in 618 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 7: the Civil rights movement when people were brutalized in front 619 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 7: of cameras and Americans, white Americans were horrified? So can 620 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 7: we do that with this xenophobic push Can we get 621 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 7: Americans who were are not from an immigration background to 622 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,239 Speaker 7: be horrified at what is happening and what's going to 623 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 7: be happening even more to our immigrant neighbors. So I 624 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 7: also think you're going to get a lot of pushback 625 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 7: from immigrants because a lot of these people are very tough, 626 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 7: you know, I mean my parents were immigrants. 627 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 2: They were tough, but you know. 628 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 7: These people have done a lot to come to the 629 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 7: United States and being deported back to who knows where 630 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 7: with no resources and no, I mean, that's like the 631 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 7: end of their lives. So I expect there's going to 632 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 7: be organized resistance from immigrants and their allies, and then 633 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 7: we have to see how Americans will react to what 634 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 7: might become pitched battles on our streets. MM. 635 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: That doesn't sound good. I want you to say more 636 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: about this empathy idea. 637 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 8: Yeah, So the civil rights movement explicitly, King explicitly looked 638 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 8: for a tough shareff who would crack the heads of 639 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 8: nonviolent protesters, so to get that on camel so that 640 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 8: people would be horrified. 641 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 7: That was a strategy you didn't have at the time, 642 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 7: Jim Crow sheriffs broadcasting the horrors that they were doing. 643 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 7: Of course, there had been public lynchings and things like this, 644 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 7: which is a little bit in the direction of you know, 645 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 7: the public cruelty aspect is where we're where we are 646 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 7: at right now. But the empathy was a call to 647 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,919 Speaker 7: our better natures, to saying, you know, we Americans are 648 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 7: not about this cracking the heads of people trying to 649 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 7: devote So you know what this admit this regime is 650 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 7: doing is it's trying to say we Americans are about 651 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 7: tearing kids away from their families. We Americans are We're 652 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 7: about blood and soil. We're about as JD. Vance said, 653 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,320 Speaker 7: We're about the people who are buried in our graveyards 654 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 7: one hundred years ago, not about. 655 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 2: An idea or an ideal. 656 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 7: So the empathy would be reaching to America as a 657 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 7: set of ideals. What a state is is it's not 658 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,320 Speaker 7: just a collection of people. It's not just a collection 659 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 7: of families who are related. It's an ideal, it's something. 660 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,240 Speaker 7: It's a vision of a common good that binds people together. 661 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 7: And what we need is a movement that speaks to 662 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,320 Speaker 7: that vision of America, that speaks to that vision of 663 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 7: a common good and refuses to reduce us to a 664 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 7: bunch of people who are related by blood and soil 665 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,399 Speaker 7: to those who came before us. 666 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 4: We need that. 667 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 7: What we're starting to see this regime do is give 668 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 7: us a blood and soil vision, give us a Nazi vision. 669 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 2: Of who we are. 670 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 7: We're not a democracy, we're not a tolerant nation. We're 671 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 7: not a nation of immigrants. We're not a beacon of freedom. 672 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 7: We are fundamentally decendenced by blood of people who lived 673 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 7: on this soil for generations, and that's the vision we 674 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 7: have to fight against. 675 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 2: So it sounds like a sort of Obama is the 676 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 2: answer to this. 677 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 7: Right, someone charismatic. I mean, you know, another central value 678 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 7: is equality. I mean, I think you're right. We need 679 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 7: someone who can speak against these horrors or change the topic, 680 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 7: switch the topic to justice, to equality to material things. 681 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 7: Often democracies are healthiest when someone can say, Okay, let's 682 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 7: stop talking about integration, let's stop talking about trans people, 683 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 7: let's talk about the rents, let's talk about affordability, you know, 684 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 7: and then that changes the topic from cruelty. We need 685 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,720 Speaker 7: to change the topic from cruelty. We need to change 686 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 7: the topic from this blood and soil vision of who 687 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:39,919 Speaker 7: we are. 688 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,800 Speaker 4: And there are various ways to change that topic. 689 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 7: One way, as you say, is a charismatic call to 690 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 7: a nation where people come to be free, rather than 691 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 7: come to have their speech rights taken away from them, 692 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 7: as we're seeing now, where if you come to America, 693 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:57,720 Speaker 7: you're not a citizen. 694 00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:58,919 Speaker 4: You can't speak at all. 695 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 7: So we need that, or we need a change of 696 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 7: subjects where people are like why are you vilifying immigrants? 697 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 2: I need cheap groceries, Jason Stanley. I hope you'll come 698 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 2: back always, Mollie, thank you for the work you do. 699 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 1: Oh moment perfectly Jesse Cannon. 700 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 3: So, Molly. As we know, courts aren't going to save us. 701 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 3: Federal Appeals Court has allowed the CFPB dismantling to proceed. 702 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 3: You know, I love when Trump pretends he's for the 703 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 3: American people and the little guy and says, you know, 704 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 3: a consumer protection board that keeps people from being predatory 705 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 3: towards you, that's me protecting you. 706 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 7: Yeah. 707 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 1: Trump ran on populism, right. He said he was going 708 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: to make things less expensive. Now here we are, and 709 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: every moment that Trump said the opportunity to do something 710 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 1: like that, to make things less expensive, to protect the 711 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: little guy, to work on inflation, every moment he's done 712 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 1: just the opposite. 713 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,319 Speaker 2: It is exactly how we thought it would go. 714 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 6: Right. 715 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 2: It doesn't care about the little guy. He just was lying. 716 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,399 Speaker 3: Yep. So when you see these bank fees and your 717 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 3: credit card fees and interest rates go up, we can 718 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 3: put a nice little I did that sticker of Trump 719 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 3: on it. 720 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,320 Speaker 2: That's right, Jesse Cannon. 721 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 722 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best 723 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense. 724 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 2: Of all this chaos. 725 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a 726 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: friend and keep the conversation going. 727 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.