1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: Also media. Oh boy, hottie, we're back having a good 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: time and uh, everything's good. Uh podcasting about Alfred Hugenberg, 3 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: a great asshole who at this point in time, has 4 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: helped make World War won a reality, which you know, 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: I hope to one day make World War one a reality, 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: so uh you. 7 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 2: Are you're keeping its memory alive every. 8 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: Day, every day. As soon as this call finishes, Amanda Montel, 9 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: our great guest and the author of Coldish, as soon 10 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: as we finish this recording, I'm going to get back 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: on the phone with Emmanuel Macron over in France and 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: try to sell them some new machine guns. You know, 13 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell the Germans, you know what Macron is doing? 14 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: Holy shit? 15 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: What that moment? That that moment when you become your 16 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: podcast that's right, where do you end? And it would 17 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: Gin's look subject burbergreement. 18 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, what's the one thing everyone agreed in 19 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: nineteen on, in nineteen thirteen and today too many young 20 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: people in Europe. You know, we're gonna knock that problem 21 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: out right away. Just make a new Western Front exactly exactly. 22 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: You know, it's good for the economy. Harold destroys the 23 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: whole we are at the point at which World War 24 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: One is underway, millions of boys are dying in an 25 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: industrial form of slaughter heretofore unknown to the human race, 26 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: and as Germany feeds its future into a steel maw 27 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: of British and French bullets, Alfred Hugenberg has an idea. 28 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 3: Now. 29 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: The job he's working at this point is pretty close 30 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: to what we'd call a hedge fund manager today, right, 31 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: not in terms of the way he's moving his money, 32 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: but in the fact that he is the guy who 33 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: other rich people give their cash to and he tells 34 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: them what to do with it in order to make 35 00:01:58,200 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: the most of it. 36 00:01:58,880 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 3: Right. 37 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: And he's always been very bullish on German expansion. That's 38 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: kind of his whole deal, Like what if we had 39 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: more Germany? And he's always felt like Germany deserved a 40 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: bigger piece of the pie that was Africa. And at 41 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: this point world War One, arguably Germany's best military commander 42 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: of the entire war is in Africa, like a very 43 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: actually like innovative insurgent kind of commander running a truly 44 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 1: ingenious insurgent campaign. And after the initial first few weeks 45 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: of heady advances through Belgium and eastern France. Everything gets 46 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: bogged down for the German army in the West, and 47 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: so Africa is going to be one of those places 48 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: that Germans can look to for like the kind of 49 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: glorious martial stories of military cunning and courage that you know, 50 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: make good propaganda because like and then another boy died 51 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: in the mud, not great stories, you know, not super 52 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: not super inspiring, right, so true, So Hugenberg is like, naturally, 53 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: when we Germans win this war, we're going to need 54 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: to expanded our African possessions. And for an idea of 55 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: what it would have looked like had Hugenberg got his wishes, 56 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: we don't have to look back much further than like 57 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: the period that we're in right now, nineteen fourteen. In fact, 58 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: we just have to go back to January of nineteen 59 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: oh four, which is when the Herrero people of modern 60 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: day Namibia, led by a chief sit named Samuel Mahari Maherero, 61 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: launched a rebellion against their German colonizers. Right, so Germany 62 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: already has Namibia. Hugenberg is looking at because he wants 63 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: to take basically British African possessions and make them German right. 64 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: And what had happened ten years before this in Namibia 65 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: was the Herrero had rebelled, they'd killed about one hundred 66 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: and twenty something German settlers, and zue Germans had responded 67 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: by bringing the armed might of They have the most 68 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: powerful army on the planet at the time to bear 69 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: against these guys who don't have an army. They just 70 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: have some men who are warriors, right, So it's not 71 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: like a military with like an industrial state by it. 72 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: And this does not go well for the Herrero and 73 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: the actual fighting, the battle is won quite quickly because 74 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: the Germans have artillery, and as a general rule, if 75 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: one side has artillery and the other side has not, 76 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: that the side with artillery wins. This is one of 77 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: the fun rules of warfare that's been generally true. German 78 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: soldiers pursue the fleeing civilians after they kind of break 79 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: the fighting forces, they continue to pursue because like the 80 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: Herrero flee they try to get the fuck out of Namibia, 81 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: right sure, and these colonial soldiers pursue these fleeing civilians 82 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: into the desert and massacre thousands of them, a mix 83 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: of just shooting them to death, end mass and poisoning 84 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: their well. So they'll be in like the desert and 85 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: they'll poison like a water supply to kill more of them. 86 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's a genocide. This is a genocide. Yeah, 87 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: this is universally recognized as a genocide. You know, like 88 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,119 Speaker 1: Germany was doing genocides well before Hitler got into power, 89 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: right and around this time. They are also going to 90 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: have a hand in the Armenian genocide during World War One, 91 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: so they're not clean on that either. In October of 92 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: nineteen oh four, a German commander gave this order to 93 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: Herrero civilians seeking to return home to Namibia. Quote, within 94 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: the German borders, every male Herrero, armed or unarmed, will 95 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: be shot to death. I will no longer take in 96 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: women or children, but I will drive them back to 97 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: their people or have them fired at. These are my 98 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: words to the Herero people from the Great General of 99 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: the mighty German Kaiser. 100 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: Okay, wait, I have a question. So one of the 101 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 2: like mind blow moments for me from our part one 102 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: was the context that so much of German nationalism hinged 103 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: on them being jealous of Britain's colonization of various territories. 104 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, were there still, though Germany's attitude seems especially belligerent, 105 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 2: like they were there other nations that had like newly 106 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 2: embraced nationalism around this time that aspired to the level 107 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 2: of colonization and brutality that Germany was extracting. 108 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: A great example would be Japan, who is starting they're colonizing. 109 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: Who's starting to colonize right around I mean in World 110 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 1: War One, they take a bunch of German possessions. This 111 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: is a big part of Japanese colonial expansion, and they're 112 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: going to be hideously genocidal everywhere they the Empire of 113 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: Japan spreads to And obviously the British have been doing 114 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: colonizing a lot longer, but one of the first big 115 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: acts of British colonialism was to kill by some counts, 116 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: tens of millions of people in Bengal through a famine 117 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: that was largely the result of business choices made by 118 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: a British corporation. So the fact that Germans get a 119 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 1: colony in Namibia and almost immediately do a genocide, this 120 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: is very much the norm, right constantly, Yes, shit, yeah, 121 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: this is not at all like a freak in set. 122 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: This is not just the Germans right, this is a product. 123 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: This is just how colonialism always works. Yeah, but he 124 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: sure is aware of what the Germans are doing in Namibia. 125 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: This is reported on and his whole attitude is we 126 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: need to be doing this to way more of Africa 127 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: to make room for a bunch of German farmers. You know, 128 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: let's let's let's get on it. We've got better guns 129 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: than these people. Wiping them out will be no problem. 130 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: So when he talks about needing to expand to Africa, 131 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: I just I wanted to tell that story because that's 132 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: what he's talking about. Right now, Africa. Things are I 133 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't say they're going well for Germany in the war, 134 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: but it's one of the areas where they can take 135 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: a lot of pride because they've got this like very 136 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: innovative commander doing very innovative things over there. That's a 137 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: lot sexier than what's happening on the Western Front. Past. 138 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: To point, the other big win the Germans had had 139 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: right at the start of the war was that they 140 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: had conquered Belgium. Right now, this is actually a big 141 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: part of why they lose the war on a strategic level, 142 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: because Belgium is an independent, neutral nation right. The Germans 143 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: take Belgium because they need it as a road to 144 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: get to France, because this plan they have says that 145 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: that's the best way to do these things. And the 146 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: British are like, if you go through Belgium, we don't 147 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: maybe maybe we don't have a dog in this fight, 148 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: but if you go through Belgium, then you're gonna be 149 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: fucking with us, right, And they go through Belgium and 150 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: the British get involved, right. So this is it's one 151 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: of those things where the Germans are very proud to 152 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: have a Belgium, but also it kind of is a 153 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: big part of what fucks up over But Hugenberg is 154 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: not really thinking about that at the time. He sees 155 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: Belgium as an investment opportunity and he's very glad to 156 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: have it. And he sees the same as you know, 157 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: Germany has taken a good deal of French territory at 158 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: this point in eastern France, which includes this one recent 159 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: region of like southeast France that Germany has occupied, is 160 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: where the French keep a big chunk of their minds. Right, 161 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: It's like a heavily resourced inns region, right. So he's 162 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: looking at these new conquests and seeing them as permanent, 163 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: even though the war is very much doubt. He's like, 164 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: you know, the smart man needs to be thinking, how 165 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: are we going to take advantage of this right? What 166 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: are we going to turn these new possessions that we 167 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: have as a people into. So as the war grinds forward, 168 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: the Pan Germanic League works overtime propagandizing that these new 169 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: conquests are now German territory forever by right of blood, 170 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: and no peace can even be negotiated if giving up 171 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: Belgium or any French territory is required. This is a 172 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: big part A lot of people wonder, well, it became 173 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: very quickly obvious no one's going to win this easily. 174 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: It is bleeding everyone white. You're all wiping out whole 175 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: generations of young men to fight this war. Why don't 176 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: we just stop? Right? And a big part of why 177 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: is the Allies, you know, Britain and France are like, well, okay, 178 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: like we'd be happy to end the war. I'm not. 179 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: They're not initially like this, but there's a lot of 180 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: willingness to end the war. But Germany has to give 181 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: up the places they took, right, Like you could just 182 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: keep all this France like fuck, he just can't Belgium 183 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: and the Germans. And this is a big part of 184 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: why the German state and the Kaiser refused to go 185 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: along with this is you've got these this very influential 186 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: Pandermanic league being like, absolutely, under no circumstances can we 187 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: compromise on these territories. Right. Again, that's not all of 188 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: why this happens, but they're not an They're not a 189 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 1: small part of why there is no willingness to compromise, 190 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: which could have ended the war at least a year 191 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: or two earlier. Right, maybe in a way that would 192 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: have been less overall calamitous to the German economy, right 193 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: because a negotiated peace wouldn't have involved Germany completely surrendering. 194 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: You know, maybe they would have they would have had 195 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: to lose give back a bunch of this territory, but 196 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: they they could have maintained being a functional state and 197 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: not had it wouldn't have been like a Treaty of 198 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: Versailles situation. Right, Potentially it's a much better future, but 199 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: Hugenberg and his ideological simpaticos are like, the fuck, give 200 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: up Belgium, we have all sorts of all sorts of 201 00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 1: plans for Belgium. 202 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 4: Then I gets, as an Italian man, my natural enemy 203 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 4: is the Belgian you know, as Caesar said, oh gall 204 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 4: is divided into three parts, and one of those motherfucking 205 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 4: parts is the Belgians. 206 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: And I got us, I got a quarrel with them. 207 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: I'm still hoping to take Belgium one day. I think 208 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: I think I could. 209 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 2: As an Italian, I thought your your your number one 210 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 2: enemy was not eating lunch. 211 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, not eating lunch, seven hour dinners. The Persians. Yeah, 212 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: we have a lot of enemies. We Italian so also 213 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 1: healthcare CEOs apparently anyway. 214 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 2: Oh yes, oh yeah, the Italians. They're everywhere and they're 215 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: doing a. 216 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: Most Famous Italian? 217 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 2: Oh my god, is that true? Is that mean? 218 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: Who's the mo? What Italian is more famous than that guy? 219 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: Right now? Berlascone? Absolutely not, no, no way. 220 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: I feel like Luigi has even overtaken, like the Luigi 221 00:11:58,920 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 2: from Mario. 222 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 1: Yeah's that he's definitely he's more famous than Mussolini now, 223 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: which I gotta say is a huge win for Italian Americans. 224 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 2: You know, honestly, whoa massive weird? What a weird? What 225 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 2: a weird? 226 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: Uh? 227 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 2: Pr strategy or. 228 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: Like, h, we're looking a lot better these days. Now. 229 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: You got to remember, so the war is on and 230 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: while he's kind of he's a part of this group 231 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: that's pushing we can't give any of this up. His 232 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: job is running this like organization made up of all 233 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: of the rich guys with mines and arms companies putting 234 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 1: pooling some of their money together. This organization is called 235 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: the zeken Verband Uh and it's an association of industrial businesses, 236 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: mines and crop like. There's companies like Krupp in there too, 237 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: so it's not just raw material producers, people who use 238 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: those raw materials, and basically just everybody with a big 239 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 1: business in the Ruhre. In this industrial heartland region, the 240 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 1: zeke their Bund had been founded in nineteen oh eight 241 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: to represent their common interests. In pre war this had 242 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: mainly meant fucking with labor unions, and up through the 243 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: end of the war, the Zekenverbund was successful at ensuring 244 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: no one mine union could work with any other mine 245 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: union right. They they basically made seerer legislatively. Unions could 246 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: not ally right, so that you can strike at one 247 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: mine or one factory, but you can't organize any kind 248 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: of general strike, right, And the ziegen Verbund also had 249 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: a strike fund, but for mine owners themselves, so that 250 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: if the workers at any mine went on strike, other 251 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: minds that were their competitors would pay to keep them going, 252 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: because it was more important to fight the labor Right 253 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: now that the war is going on, there's suddenly a 254 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: lot more on the line than just like you know, 255 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: fucking with labor unions. The good news for these guys 256 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: is that profits fucking sore because Germany needs a lot 257 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 1: more weapons now, right, And the people were making the 258 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: raw materials, bullets and cannons, they're doing great. That people 259 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: making the weapons are great. This is a good time 260 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: to have stock in Krupp. Hugenberg helped gently direct the 261 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: eyes of his hungry fellow mine owner, or of these 262 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: hungry mine owners towards all of the territory in France 263 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: and Belgium that they might be able to exploit in 264 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: the future. He's like, hey, guys, I know we're making 265 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: bank now. The war's got it end someday, but we 266 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: just got all this new French territory, a lot of 267 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: mines there, Belgium, a lot of mining potential in Belgium, 268 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: we should start investing now in being able to take 269 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: advantage of that once the war ends and we still 270 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: own all it. And so, from Hugenberg's perspective, the thing 271 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: he is most frightened of in nineteen late nineteen fourteen, 272 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen sixteen, the thing that scares him is peace, 273 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: because if peace goes wrong, I was gonna say, he's 274 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: gonna lose a lot of investments that he started to make, right. 275 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 2: Okay, as my question like just sort of nervous system wise. 276 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: I can't late at all to these motherfuckers, because. 277 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: Well you shouldn't. They're monsters. They're ghouls for sure. 278 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 2: But even if I'm like at my most empathetic and 279 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 2: I'm like, let me get into the mind and body 280 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 2: of an arity type just to see what's what's making 281 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 2: him tick, I can't. I can't. I still can't understand 282 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 2: how one could reconcile wanting wartime and wanting conflict because 283 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 2: it will be good for your wallet, but like, we're not. Yeah, 284 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 2: I just don't get it how it works. 285 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: Part of it is because they also tell themselves we're 286 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: not being selfish, we're we're patriots and this will be 287 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: better for Germany. Right, the sacrifices. 288 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 2: Justify the philosophy. 289 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: But the other thing, I think, if you want to keep, 290 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: if you want to get into your head, how these 291 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,479 Speaker 1: people can be so greedy? I think there's a microway 292 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: of kind of looking at it. There was a time, 293 00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: I'm sure in your life, Amanda, the same is true 294 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: of me. It seems it's going to be true of 295 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: most people listening. Where you made a lot less money 296 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: than you currently make, right, you know, when you're nineteen 297 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: or whatever, and you survived right had you paid rent 298 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: and you ate food. Right now, you make I'm presuming 299 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: more money than you did when you were eighteen or nineteen, 300 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: and you're still surviving. But you also probably still have 301 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: a lot of things, like have a lot of economic 302 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: anxiety even though you have a lot more, which is 303 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: very common, and that psychological process doesn't stop just because 304 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: you have more money than you can ever spend right. 305 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 5: Enough to get to exactly right right right, like if 306 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 5: you get if you get a billion dollars, statistically the 307 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 5: thing you want to do most most people, not everyone, 308 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 5: like time from my. 309 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: Space, seems you've a witted this, but statistically a lot 310 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: of people who get a billion dollars. The main thing 311 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: on their mind is now I want to get two. 312 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: I need to get ten, I need to get right. 313 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: Like that's that's just kind of like you know, it's 314 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: it's it's why again, it's why you need to have 315 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,719 Speaker 1: like societal restrictions that stop people from accumulating like that, 316 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: because once the process starts mentally, very few people can 317 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: avoid continuing down that road, even to some extent, even 318 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: if they're reasonably good people ahead of you. Ye, it's 319 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: just kind of it's a poison. It's a drug. It's 320 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: a drug. It's like giving someone a heroin. Right, sometimes, yes, 321 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: you give them a heroin, they might get addicted, even 322 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: if they don't want to, because like that's what drugs do? 323 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: You know? 324 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 2: I know, it just keeps reminding me of. I mean, obviously, 325 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 2: we have like cultural lessons and axioms and proverbs that 326 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 2: try to convince us to resist those impulses. And the 327 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 2: one I always think of is that Edward Abbey quote 328 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: that's like growth for growth's sake is the ideology of 329 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 2: a cancer cell. 330 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 1: Yes, but like absolutely it's. 331 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 2: So hard to internalize messages like. 332 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: That and again, and that's why that's why there's there's 333 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: gotta be just actual like you have to as at 334 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: the at the kind of collective level rules to stop 335 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: that because individual people are not not that. No one 336 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: can avoid this because there are people who have strong 337 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 1: enough sense of self and moral centers that yeah, likely 338 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: the option won't get that Brich won't let it happen. 339 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: But usually this does not happen the Hugenberg route where 340 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: people are like because and again you have to again 341 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: to go back to the heroin comparison the amount of 342 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: money they start making because of the war, like they 343 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: they don't want to give that up period, right, Like 344 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: that is it's like pop loves Dog. 345 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 2: It's like, if money comes because of war, let's do 346 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 2: more war. 347 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: Delicious, delicious, I love it all. Yeah, So Hugenberg convinces 348 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: these guys, the only threat to our future profits is peace, 349 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: particularly the wrong sort of peace, And if we want 350 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: to make that impossible, I need you to give me 351 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: some of your money and we're going to start buying 352 00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: up newspapers, right because that's how we can stop we 353 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: can kill the peace movement because from the beginning, once 354 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: this war starts wiping out generations of young men at 355 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 1: there's an anti war movement brewing even within Germany, a 356 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: pretty sizable one, and they're like, this is all the 357 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: fault of like Bolshevik propaganda. We need to start buying 358 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: the newspapers and then we can convince everyone their son's 359 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: dying is a good idea. So the four largest of 360 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: the companies that are in this organization that Hugenberg's heading, 361 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: the Zeichenwerband, including Krupp, which is still managed by Hugenberg, 362 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: send representatives to act as spokesman for the creation of 363 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: a private association, the vertschaftlicht Geslschaft, and this is a 364 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: trust fund regularly topped off by profits from war profiteers 365 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: and used to quote countermand threatening dangers in the economic 366 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: and social fields. Leopold and his biography of Hugenberg continues 367 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: through the use of diverse bank accounts and holding companies 368 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: administered by additional trustees. Hugenberg and these industrial leaders masked 369 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: their control. The Ousland established a night teen fourteen became 370 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: one of their key corporations, the Vertschaft deinst GmbH, incorporated 371 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 1: in May of nineteen sixteen, concealed investments made for the 372 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: improvement of economic news service and the management of press corporations. 373 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: A third firm, the Deutsche Gewerbahaus AG, established in February 374 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: of nineteen seventeen, officially managed funds for the erection of 375 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: business offices for the varied associations of German industry. Its 376 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 1: larger purpose, however, was to participate in various businesses and 377 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: measures which appeared suitable to the corporation for the advancement 378 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: of general German industrial and national interests. So they are 379 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: buying up newspapers, and they're creating organizations to manage newspapers 380 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: as a group, and they're hiding through these shell companies 381 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: the fact that they own all of these papers and 382 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: that it's Hugenberg pulling the strings. Now, this of course 383 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: means you're going to you need to bribe a lot 384 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: of people, and you need to make the kind of 385 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: investments that act as bribes. But a large chunk of 386 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: the tens of millions of reichs Reichsmarks that are raised 387 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: in this period are put to towards the purchase directly 388 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: of media organs. The fund set its beady eyes and 389 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: a large Berlin publishing house, the August Schurrel Company, named 390 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: after a right wing newspaper entrepreneur. He was basically the 391 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: equivalent of the German William Randolph Hurst or the guy 392 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: who created the Daily Mail back in the UK. Like 393 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: he's that kind of guy. These are these are conservative papers. 394 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: This is like the Fox News of its day in 395 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: Germany and the situation and so these guys buy it right. 396 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: The Scheryl Company's two big publications are Der Todg, which 397 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: is for intellectuals in the capital, and Berlin or Locale Anzinger, 398 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: which is about ten times larger in terms of its 399 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: readership and is aimed more at the working class. Schurrel 400 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: also ran a. 401 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 2: Series Robert, were you always as good at reading and 402 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 2: pronouncing German words? Or has? The podcast? 403 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: People are going to be talking so much shit about 404 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: how I'm saying these things. 405 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 2: Oh, I mean it sounds like super confident. You're not 406 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 2: even like bum I. 407 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 1: I you know, I don't do well with this. People 408 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: are going to be going. 409 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 3: To be to be convinced you're pretty good at Ukrainian words. 410 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 2: But like other than. 411 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: That, I don't know if I'd say that, but oh. 412 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 2: Does that say something about you that's fascinating? 413 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: So Cheryl ran a bunch of small weekly papers all 414 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: over the country, all of which are united only by 415 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: a shared conservative view of reality and politics, and this 416 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: stood not position. The August Schrol Company is the big 417 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: conservative publisher. The two bigger publishers in Germany are the 418 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: Rudolph Moss Masse Company and the Ostein Company, both of 419 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: which are pro democratic and generally liberal. August Scheryl the 420 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: company had been profitable until nineteen fourteen when the war 421 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: broke out. Because everything gets more expensive when the war 422 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: breaks out, there's massive inflation, it's very difficult to afford 423 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: to put out a newspaper. And part of why people 424 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,199 Speaker 1: stop reading the August Scheryl publications in nineteen fourteen is 425 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: that up to the war starting, they've been telling everyone, Hey, 426 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: this is going to go great. You're going to love 427 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: the war. We're going to be done in a couple 428 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: of months. Everyone will be back at home by Christmas. 429 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: And when that doesn't happen, people are like, well, maybe 430 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: I don't like this paper. Now that all four of 431 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: my sons are dead, perhaps I will stop reading these guys. 432 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: So they're kind of he's a Hugenberg's able to buy 433 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: this shit on the cheap in nineteen sixteen, using these 434 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 1: pooled industry funds. Now, by the time the August Cheryl 435 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: company sells to Hugenberg, things are bad enough that they 436 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: need like seven million marks just to settle their debt, 437 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: and then there's they got to put a couple Hugenberg 438 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: has to put a few million more into it in 439 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 1: order to actually like invest so that the company can 440 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: be profitable again. 441 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 2: But he doesn't ca can't like chump change to him. 442 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: Yes he is. He is all essentially a billionaire at 443 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: this point, right, Like not literally because like nobody had 444 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: that much at that point, really, but he is essentially 445 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: a billionaire for our terms, he would have been a 446 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 1: billionaire if we're kind of like adjusting shit, right. Schuryl agrees, 447 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: because again this is chump changed to him, and he 448 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: doesn't care about profits. His condition is that if he 449 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: buys this thing and gets them out of debt, he 450 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: has full, absolute personal control over the publishing house and 451 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: what they publish. So the show company inks in agreement, 452 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: and Hugenberg puts one of his friends from the Pan 453 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: Germanic League in charge of the holding company that manages it. Instantly, 454 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: Scherl's papers go from being conservative to adopting the exact 455 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: same line on war, aims that Hugenberg and his fellow 456 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: war profiteers wanted no peace unless we get everything, and 457 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: also no piece while there's a buck to be made. 458 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: One of Hugenberg's friends laid out the motivation of this 459 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 1: cartel in buying these papers very directly in a letter 460 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: at that This is one of Huggenberberg's friends writing in 461 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: a letter about what they're doing. Well, Waite, the gentleman, 462 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: this is who he's writing to, should not believe that 463 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: we were involved to have a good investment. We knew 464 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: that nothing would come out of this, and we wanted 465 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 1: to have political influence for our money. In other words, 466 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: we're not we're gonna make money off of these. This 467 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: is a lost leader. It's like, you know, the We're 468 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: gonna pump money into this, not because it'll make us money, 469 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: but because it'll change the culture in a way that 470 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: makes us money. 471 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 2: Oh my god, they're poisoning wells in so many ways. 472 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, they do the fucking ah, the Germans and Well 473 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: poisoning big Well, poisoning culture at this point in. 474 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 3: Time, speaking of poisoning the well. 475 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: Speaking of you know who loves poisoning. Nope, uh, here's ads. 476 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: We're back. And you know what, I just put strychnine 477 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: in a well and I gotta say it feels good. 478 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: You know, it's a hoot. Doesn't hurt anybody except for 479 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: the people who drink from the well, and I don't 480 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: know them. So yeah, you know what, I get it. 481 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: I you know, I'm a German nationalist now, long live 482 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: the Kaiser. Anyway, in addition to pushing an extreme Sophie 483 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: you always say every time I try to give the 484 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: Kaiser praise, you just hate Kaisers for some reason. What 485 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: about Kaiser permanente? Wonder what? No, Yeah, that's even worse 486 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: than the last Kaiser. 487 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really bad Kaiser. I got the fuck 488 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 2: out of that Kaiser. 489 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: Some fucking guy sat down was like, I want to 490 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: be a Kaiser, but I want to kill more people 491 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: than the last. I know, I'll become a health insurer. 492 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 2: Oh my god, would probably do a better job. Yeah, totally. 493 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 2: I think I'm going to go. 494 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: I think I'm going to go from a no m M. 495 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: I think we should let him give it a shot. So, 496 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: in addition to pushing an extreme line on war aims, 497 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: The papers were also set to the task of attacking 498 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: the left, which it defined as anyone supportive of democracy. 499 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: Alfred didn't write his own propaganda, but he was very 500 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,360 Speaker 1: involved at the operational level, investing in several major papers 501 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 1: to push them further right, and also establishing a separate 502 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: fund to shotgun money off to little nationalist papers all 503 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: over the empire. So they're not just buying papers, they're 504 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: giving away money to small independent papers to keep them 505 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 1: afloat during World War One. So all of like the 506 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: centrist papers are going out of business because it's a 507 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: terrible time to be in business in Germany, so are 508 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: a lot of the left wing ones. But the right 509 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 1: wing press thrives because he's paying it with war money. 510 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 2: Right, Oh my god, oh my god. Is this what's 511 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 2: happening in conservative media right now? Because yes, I don't 512 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 2: know exactly. 513 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's what was The Daily Wire might be 514 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: going bankrupt now, but you know, the oligarchs got what 515 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: they needed out of them, right. Yeah. It's this thing 516 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: of like, wow, it's hard to be an honest newspaperman 517 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: trying to report accurately on things, and also those people 518 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: are dangerous to us. What if we made the only 519 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: profitable kind of news, right wing news, using our infinite moneies. Yeah, 520 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: oh my god. 521 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 2: Did you see that infographic or like some Yeah, I 522 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 2: mean I saw it in the form of an talking 523 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 2: about how like yeah, the like biggest thought leaders and 524 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 2: pundits right now, like podcasters are all conservatives except for 525 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 2: like one exception, that being Trevoranoa. And I was just like, 526 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 2: this feels like a conspiracy. 527 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was. It's just a very obvious one. Right. 528 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: You put a lot of money into Audience City and 529 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: put you get people on the boards of the social 530 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: media company, so they make sure the algorithms support it, 531 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: you know, same as it ever was. So Hugenberg's support 532 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: of war aims that held German expansion is non negotiable 533 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: led him to back the political ambitions a field Marshal 534 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: Paul v On Hindenberg and General Eric Ludendorf, both of 535 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: whom are going to be key players in Hitler's rise. 536 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: Hindenberg is the guy who hands over control to Hitler 537 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: when he dies, and Ludendorf is the general who marches 538 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: with Hitler during the beer hall push. Now, by this point, 539 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: and the war is still on, right, now there's a 540 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: huge anti war movement right by nineteen seventeen, a lot 541 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: of Germans are like, what if we stopped killing our sons, 542 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: we can call these the sane people. And so Hugenberg 543 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: hates these folks and he helps develop and advertise a 544 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: right wing counterpart, the German Fatherland Party. Now the only 545 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: real demand of the German Fatherland Party is that Germany 546 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: should annex everything and keep fighting until the rest of 547 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: used to let them keep it. 548 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 3: You just stop that name, as I was triggered, but 549 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 3: I did not enjoy that name. 550 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 2: That was bad. 551 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's okay. Where we're like three years away from 552 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: the American Fatherland Party, Sophie, it's going to be great. 553 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 2: I think we're there. 554 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: We might be now. While he's also playing the part 555 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: of arch propaganda baron of the right, Alfred starts taking 556 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: investment money from his friends, with the end goal of 557 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: exploiting all of those resources Germany was definitely going to 558 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: control entirely once the war ended. For John Leopold quote 559 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: he established three companies which would help Germany exploit Belgian resources. Similarly, 560 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: at the end of nineteen seventeen, he formed a company 561 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: to develop the post war settlement of French territory, which 562 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: he expected the Reich to annex. Much more elaborate plans 563 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: were formulated for the Colonists of the East, which were 564 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: incorporated in nineteen eighteen after the Russian defeat. Now, if 565 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: you know your history, you know that investing in Germany 566 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: continuing to control France, Belgium and Western Russia in nineteen 567 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: seventeen not a good investment about to really really go 568 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: badly for Hugenberg. But I read this because by the 569 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: end of World War One he has become a bookie 570 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: for war on a continental scale. He's taken everybody's cash 571 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: right like this, you know, and all the cash of 572 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: the people who are betting on we're going to keep 573 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: all this shit right. He takes in some thirty seven 574 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: million marks to establish cooperative funds aimed at settling German 575 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: farmers on conquered land, and then of course Germany loses 576 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: the war. Now again, it is one hundred percent agreed 577 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: by absolutely everyone who, every professional historian, every military history 578 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: and even the German ones that Germany simply could not 579 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,719 Speaker 1: continue to fight. The moment they made peace was the 580 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: last moment they could have done it without the army 581 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: shattering entirely and leaving a clear path to Berlin, and 582 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: by the way, without a full scale like anti socialist 583 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: revolution overtaking the country, right, and they almost have one anyway, 584 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: Like Germany is absolutely out of gas. They have fucking 585 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: nothing left. But if you're looking at a map like 586 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: a dumb person, it looks like Germany gives up when 587 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: they're winning. They're still in France, they still have Belgium, 588 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: and they've got a lot of Russian territory. Germany's the 589 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: biggest it's ever been. It's the largest continental empire that 590 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: I think it existed, certainly since the era of the 591 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: Roman Empire. It might have been large. I don't recall precisely, 592 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: but it looks really good on a map if you're 593 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: not aware of the fact that all of their soldiers 594 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: are about to drop dead where they're standing right now. 595 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: Hugenberg is not a dumb man. He understands the army 596 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: literally could not have kept fighting, but he can't that 597 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: intellectually because that would mean that he'd been wrong, and 598 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: he just is not the kind of guy who can 599 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: be wrong. So he convinces himself, we've been stabbed in 600 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: the back somebody fucked this up for us. It wasn't 601 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: me and the other people running this fucking country. And 602 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: he sets his fast propaganda apparatus. He now controls the papers, 603 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: and he sets the papers to convincing the country of 604 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: what we now call the big lie. Right, Germany didn't 605 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: lose because we got out fought and outlasted, and we 606 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: pissed off the Americans, And boy, maybe we shouldn't piss 607 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: off the people who have literally all of the resources 608 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: on planet Earth behind them. Possibly a bad idea would 609 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: wear Germany. We lost because a sinister alliance of Jews, 610 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: socialists and liberal Democrats stabbed the Fatherland in the back. 611 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: You know, that's why all this happened. It's not that 612 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: we picked a fight with a man who was three 613 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: feet taller than us and made of solid steel. Again, 614 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: I'm talking about the US in this period of time, 615 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: after we were already beaten so bloody that our eyes 616 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: had swollen shut. You know, it's not that it's the Jews. 617 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: You know, the August Cheryl Company plays a substantial role 618 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: in spreading this lie, and their propaganda falls on welcome ears, 619 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: not just among the same group of people where the 620 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: nation Nazi Party did most of its recruiting at this time. 621 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: He focused a lot on the Buildings Burgertum right, the 622 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: younger members of that class, these university students, many of 623 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: whomen are too young to fight right, and this spelled 624 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: the final end of liberalism within the Buildings Burgertum. As 625 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: Hermann Beck lays out in his book The Fateful Alliance, 626 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: students preceded the established Buildings Burgertum in appropriating a new conservatism. 627 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: Before the German defeat in the First World War and 628 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: the subsequent economic turmoil and inflation, this cultivated bourgeoisie had 629 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: enjoyed significant material security and comfort, as well as greater 630 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: social prestige than its counterparts in other European countries. To them, 631 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: the more in the war was more than a military disaster. 632 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: It signified personal humiliation and the loss of the distinct 633 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 1: cultural identity. As a result, large sections of the educated 634 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: elite moved further to the political right. 635 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:18,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's nothing that turns like a generous, intellectually rigorous 636 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 2: class of people. Conservative like bitterness like bitterness, Yeah, loss 637 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 2: aversion suddenly statorialism. 638 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 1: I thought I was promised more than this. It must be. 639 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 2: Someone's exactly exactly. 640 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: Now, Huggenberg's papers aren't just geared towards these people, and 641 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: in fact he's got a bunch of papers that are 642 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: geared towards different segments of the population. But because number one, 643 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: I mean, he's from this group, they're best at messaging 644 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: to these people. Right. You know, it takes less than 645 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 1: two years after the end of the war for like 646 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: this rage in Mania that's being drilled into German conservatives 647 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: via Hugenberg's propaganda to really start to flourish. And one 648 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: of the conservatives who is influenced by this stuff and 649 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: is going to have a big impact on things is 650 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: a fellow traveler of Hugenberg's named Wolfgang Cap. Now. Cap, 651 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, had been born in New York City because 652 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: his family fled during the eighteen forty eight revolutions. There's 653 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: this wave of left wing revolutions all around Europe in 654 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: eighteen forty eight. They don't succeed in toppling the German government, 655 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: but it's scary. CAP's family comes from money and they 656 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: leave to be in New York for a while, right, 657 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 1: but he moves back. He since spends his youthful years 658 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: in Germany, and he is kind of sculpted from conception 659 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: to be a right wing culture warrior. Right, his family 660 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: and his wife's family are nationalists. They have strong far 661 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 1: right pedigrees, and Cap grows up to run an agricultural 662 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,399 Speaker 1: credit union. He used his position to argue against debt 663 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: relief for starving farmers, and in World War One full 664 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 1: throatedly endorsed the impossible war aims of Hugenberg and his ILK. 665 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,720 Speaker 1: He was also very bullish on unrestricted submarine warfare. You can't. 666 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: This guy thinks, you know what'll win us World War 667 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:09,760 Speaker 1: one is if we just shoot everybody's shipping all the time. Yeah, 668 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: you know what never pisses off again? For example, the 669 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: United States is killing a bunch of their citizens and boats. 670 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: They love having their citizens killed in boats. Let's do 671 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: a lot more of that, right, It doesn't work out 672 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: very good. Not a great thing for Germany. Yeah, So 673 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: after the war, Cap co founds the German Fatherland part 674 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 1: or at the end of the war he Cap is 675 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: the co founder of this German Fatherland Party, right that 676 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: Hugenberg is backing, alongside a guy named Admiral Turpets. And 677 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: it was in this position that Cap first makes contact 678 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,279 Speaker 1: with the Pan German League. Germany had been entirely overtaken 679 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,919 Speaker 1: by a socialist revolution. Of the aftermath of the war, 680 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 1: the whole country barely stops from going socialist because the 681 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,720 Speaker 1: Weimar government that gets put in place after the Kaiser 682 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: leaves basically like is a compromise government meant to avoid 683 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,839 Speaker 1: full civil war, and they, to his significant extent, make 684 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: kind of a deal with a lot of these right 685 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: wing forces, with the military, with the Fry Corps, which 686 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: is are these groups of like veterans who fought against 687 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: the left, that's kind of all happening in this period 688 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: in order to like put that down. And these Free 689 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: Corps units that develop. These guys aren't yet Nazis, because 690 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,879 Speaker 1: Nazis don't exist yet, but a lot of them will 691 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: be later, and they basically are the inspiration for the 692 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,720 Speaker 1: Brown Shirts or the essay. And Cap sees these this paramilitary, 693 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: these paramilitaries that formed to crush the left in you know, 694 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,919 Speaker 1: the immediate post war period, and he realizes, like, there's 695 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: a lot of potential here. We can mobilize these people 696 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: not just to do violence for us, but as like 697 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: a voting block. Now, the problem is Cap is not 698 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: good at waiting for his moment. So once he gets 699 00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: he forms this umbrella organization to lump these paramilitaries together, 700 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: and he gets General Ludendorf to agree to join, right, 701 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: and then he tries to overthrow the government. And one 702 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: thing that's funny is that Ludendorf gets on board with 703 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: this plan a few years later in nineteen twenty three. 704 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: Because this is nineteen twenty he's going to do the 705 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: same thing with Hitler. Ludendorf loves trying to overthrow the 706 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: Weimar government, is no good at it, but loves yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 707 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: it's his cigarettes. So CAP's whole idea he is called 708 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: the cap Pusch, and it's the same basic plan that 709 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:35,839 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways that Hitler's going to try 710 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,280 Speaker 1: to execute, although different logistically. He's really focused on Berlin 711 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: from the start. He wants to try to take the capital, 712 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 1: and for our purposes today, I'll just say it doesn't 713 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: work right. And what's relevant to Hugenberg, who's our focus, 714 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: is that the League is definitely aware that Kapp is 715 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: planning this putsch and they give him a little bit 716 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: of quiet support. But as soon as it becomes clear 717 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: that he's not going to win, the League disavows him 718 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: and is like, we never supported oh my god, treason, 719 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,919 Speaker 1: absolutely not us, and Ludendorf kind of does the same thing, 720 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: and they all walk away unscathed. Almost no one is 721 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: punished for trying to overthrow the government. Cap even is 722 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: allowed to go into exile in Sweden. Right, nobody wants 723 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: to piss off the far right by punishing them for 724 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: trying to overthrow the government and institute a dictatorship. And 725 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: a lot of these same guys are going to do 726 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: it again. Fascinating how that works. So Hugenberg and his 727 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: fellow plutocrats, you know, they make the public noises they 728 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 1: have to make. You know, that's like, oh, that's how horrible. 729 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: Why would anyone try that? But Hugenberg is also already 730 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: trying to figure out how can I overthrow the Weymar government. 731 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: And he's not a putsch guy. He doesn't want to 732 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 1: have a bunch of dudes with guns do it. He's 733 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: going to overthrow Vymar democracy through the ballot box. Right, 734 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: that's his plan. Had left Krupp finally in nineteen eighteen 735 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: with a gargantuan fortune and a lot of influence. In 736 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,359 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty two, Germany defaulted on her reparations repayments, which 737 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 1: led to a cascading series of problems. The French occupy 738 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: the Ruur, this industrial heartland. If you're not going to pay, 739 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 1: we're going to take the money out of you by 740 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: occupying the place where you make everything. The government, in 741 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: order to counter the French back's a general strike, you know, 742 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: in order to so no one's going to work in 743 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: the rum, then it's not worth it for you to 744 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: occupy it. And the effect of all this is the 745 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 1: economy fucking nosedives, right, and since people aren't working, the 746 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 1: government starts printing more money to try and keep things going. 747 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: And you know that's how you get hyperinflation. Right. We're 748 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,799 Speaker 1: all aware that this is the thing people generally know 749 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: about Vuyimar, and you know this is bad for basically everyone, 750 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: but it's really good for Hugenberg because he's got a 751 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:59,240 Speaker 1: lot of liquid assets and everything is basically for sale 752 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,479 Speaker 1: in Germany for pennies on the dollar. So he buys 753 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: up basically all of the remaining newspapers that he didn't own. 754 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 2: And wanted to own, my god. 755 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 1: And now they're his personal property. He's not just owning 756 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: them through this organization he's helping to run. He's just 757 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: the guy who owns all these fucking papers. By the 758 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: mid nineteen twenties, he is the single largest media magnate 759 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: in Germany. He has unparalleled reached. No one, probably no 760 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,799 Speaker 1: single person had ever had as wide a reach for 761 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: disseminating their ideas to a culture as Alfred Hugenberg has 762 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: in this period of time. He has total control. 763 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,759 Speaker 2: Oh my god, So he's back to his roots. 764 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: He's back to his roots. He's spent or whatever. Yeah, 765 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: well he does. He purchases the largest German cinema chain, 766 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: so he runs the movie theaters too, which means he 767 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: gets to pick like what sort of newsreels go on 768 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 1: ahead of movies in Germany. Like this guy has owns the. 769 00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,760 Speaker 2: Media ideology of a cancer. 770 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:05,319 Speaker 1: That's right, exactly, he's fucking cancer. In nineteen twenty eight, 771 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,279 Speaker 1: he compounds all of that by purchasing his very own 772 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,920 Speaker 1: political party. Now he doesn't like literally by it, but 773 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 1: he uses his wealth and influence and control of the 774 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,360 Speaker 1: press to become the chairman of the German National People's Party. 775 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 1: This is the largest right wing nationalist party in the 776 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: country at the time, and his plan is. 777 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 2: Going to be. 778 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,520 Speaker 1: I want to shift it even further right, and I'm 779 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: going to read from an article by Sea and Truman here. 780 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty one, he produced the party's new manifesto. 781 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 1: Hugenberg called for the immediate restoration of the monarchy, the 782 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: tearing up of the Treaty of Versailles, much greater contact 783 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: between Germany and Austria, compulsory military service, a new German Empire, 784 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 1: and a reduction in the perceived economic power the Jews 785 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 1: had in Weimar's economy. Hugenberg's most immediate target was Chancellor 786 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: Heinrich Grinning, who he believed was pushing Weimar inexorably towards socialism. 787 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: Hugenberg was one of the most influential men at the 788 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty one Harsburg Front Conference, which met with the 789 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: specific aim of trying to persuade the aging President Hindenburg 790 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:13,319 Speaker 1: to sack Brunning. So he is a major part of 791 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,399 Speaker 1: the conditions that formed to allow Hitler's rise in this 792 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: period of time, and he is also he wants to 793 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: be Hitler. His goal is to put himself in charge 794 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,280 Speaker 1: of the company of the country by buying this party, 795 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: right like, that's kind of how he is thinking at 796 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,319 Speaker 1: this period of time. Now, unfortunately, he's not. 797 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,880 Speaker 2: Getting tired, like, oh no, get tired for a while. 798 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean again, cocaine is available over the counter. 799 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: It's a lot easier to energy. I guess, so fair. 800 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,080 Speaker 2: I'm just thinking like he must be experiencing back pain 801 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:48,760 Speaker 2: by now. 802 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, No, he can't be moving too well, 803 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,480 Speaker 1: although he's never had to work physically a day in 804 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:55,920 Speaker 1: his life, so maybe he's doing okay. 805 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot of sun though. 806 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:06,240 Speaker 1: True. Now under Hugenberg, the National People's Party actually shrinks 807 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 1: because there's a lot of conservatives who are like conservatives, 808 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: but they're not super anti Semitic or even I mean 809 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,840 Speaker 1: some of them might have just been actual like Jewish conservatives, 810 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: and they're not going to stick around as he makes 811 00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: the party much much worse on that. And there's also 812 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,200 Speaker 1: a chunk of conservatives who are like economic conservatives but 813 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 1: like military nationalism. We just had a horrible war. I'm 814 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: not really down for it. So the party shrinks under Hugenberg, 815 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,239 Speaker 1: and the folks who leave tend to join either the 816 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,880 Speaker 1: Conservative People's Party or the largest like the Center Party. 817 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 1: Others rejected the monarchist bent, and they saw what Hugenberg 818 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,319 Speaker 1: was doing as watered down nationalism, so they just went 819 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 1: and joined the Nazi Party, who in this point in 820 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,120 Speaker 1: time consider Hugenberg and the Conservatives one of their big 821 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,359 Speaker 1: enemies because at their route, the Nazis are a poor 822 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: workers party in this period, and while they have wealthy 823 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,280 Speaker 1: elites backing them, the whole capital class has not yet 824 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,799 Speaker 1: gone in for the Nazis. Right the early There are 825 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:09,560 Speaker 1: some early rich backers of the Nazis, like Hitler's friend Putsi, right, 826 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,239 Speaker 1: that guy haunch Stengel, who's like a very rich guy 827 00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,880 Speaker 1: who helps bankroll the Nazis early. But most of the 828 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,680 Speaker 1: early rich people who bankroll the Nazis are socialites, and 829 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,760 Speaker 1: they get in board with the Nazis because the Nazis 830 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 1: are cool and transgressive and they want to be cool too, 831 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:27,840 Speaker 1: right Yeah. Hitler's first real inroad to wealth, to like 832 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 1: serious money was an industrialist industrialist named Fritz Tyson. Now 833 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,319 Speaker 1: that last name, Tyson Tyssen. If you go into an 834 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: elevator right now, walk into basically any elevator in the 835 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,400 Speaker 1: world wherever you happen to be, and look around, you 836 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,479 Speaker 1: will see somewhere in that elevator almost certainly. The name 837 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: Tyson Krupp. Krupp, of course, is the arms company that 838 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,320 Speaker 1: we talked about earlier. Tyson is the company of Fritz Tyson. 839 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,239 Speaker 1: They merge at a certain point and they make all 840 00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,480 Speaker 1: the elevators as well as submarines that get sold to THEYS. 841 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,680 Speaker 2: I was already considering taking the stairs more. 842 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,279 Speaker 1: That's right, take the stairs fight time. I mean, you know, 843 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: they're just kind of a boring company now, but this 844 00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,080 Speaker 1: is these are these are the origins of all of that, right. 845 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,799 Speaker 2: I don't like those roots. I'm taking those stairs. Good 846 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,839 Speaker 2: for the blues, good for the soul. 847 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,319 Speaker 1: So Fritz Tyson had been social with Hitler for a 848 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 1: while from like the twenties, so they become like kind 849 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:26,840 Speaker 1: of friends. But Fritz is also like, I don't know 850 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:28,839 Speaker 1: if this guy's going anywhere. He's kind of extreme. I'm 851 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:30,400 Speaker 1: not going to like go whole ho again. But in 852 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: the in the thirties, he's like, you know what, this 853 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,560 Speaker 1: guy is the best speaker I've ever seen. He calls 854 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 1: he's enthralled by what he calls Hitler's oratorical gifts, and 855 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,360 Speaker 1: he says, what impressed me most. 856 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,759 Speaker 2: I don't get that either. Okay, I want to hear 857 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,800 Speaker 2: what impressed in most. Let's hear that first. 858 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,880 Speaker 1: What impressed me most was the order that reigned in 859 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:56,319 Speaker 1: his meetings, the almost military discipline of his followers. Okay, 860 00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: it's hard to tell Hitler's charisma as a Western watching 861 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:01,880 Speaker 1: these speeches. 862 00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,600 Speaker 2: It is it is. I do not get it. It's yelly, 863 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,400 Speaker 2: it's it's one note. You know, he doesn't, he doesn't 864 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 2: doesn't follow the rules of like classical dynamics. You know, 865 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 2: it's like a bad pop song that's just for tissimo 866 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 2: the whole way through. Sure, it's like where did lets 867 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:21,880 Speaker 2: so Piano go? 868 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:26,240 Speaker 1: You know, people say that about Trump and it works. 869 00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:28,640 Speaker 1: You know, it's true. It's true. 870 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:30,120 Speaker 2: The populist yelling. 871 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:35,120 Speaker 1: Hitler's really good at it, tweaking the amigdala of his followers, 872 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,360 Speaker 1: and it promising them vengeance. And if you can do 873 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,920 Speaker 1: those two things effectively, you can get about anything you 874 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:41,040 Speaker 1: want out of a pody. 875 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,080 Speaker 2: So true, it's cathartic, it's right sthartic. 876 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 3: Right. 877 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 1: So, Tyson has been kind of shotgun. He's been funding 878 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:50,960 Speaker 1: the Nazis as a little as a side hobby for 879 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,000 Speaker 1: a while in the late twenties been in January of 880 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,680 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two. He looks out the Communists are also 881 00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,640 Speaker 1: climbing in the polls right, and the Nazis actually look 882 00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 1: like they're kind of bottoming out, like they've reached their height. 883 00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,279 Speaker 1: But the Communists are still getting more popular, and he 884 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,200 Speaker 1: can see that things are reaching a terminal juncture in Ymar. 885 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 1: Something is going to break soon, and he wants it 886 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,000 Speaker 1: to break for the right. And he's like, Hitler's my 887 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,040 Speaker 1: best bet. So he invites Hitler to speak in Dusseldorf 888 00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:20,120 Speaker 1: before an assembly of industrial magnates. After the speech, all 889 00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,919 Speaker 1: of the richest guys in Germany, the people who own, 890 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,160 Speaker 1: you know, all of the factories, all the big businesses, 891 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,440 Speaker 1: whose donations had usually gone to like the Center Party 892 00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,640 Speaker 1: or to kind of one of the center right parties, 893 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,600 Speaker 1: they start sending money to the tune of ournd TiO 894 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,759 Speaker 1: million marks a year to the Nazis. And because they 895 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,480 Speaker 1: don't want to be seen directly funding the Nazis, they 896 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,600 Speaker 1: reach out to a guy they all knew and had 897 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,960 Speaker 1: worked with who was really good at funneling money, Alfred Hugenberg. 898 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,960 Speaker 1: And it's going to be Hugenberg who funnels the money 899 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:54,359 Speaker 1: from these industrialists directly into the Nazis. Now in this 900 00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,160 Speaker 1: he is playing the same role he'd done earlier, but 901 00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,880 Speaker 1: he's not a Nazi himself. He does not like hit 902 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,080 Speaker 1: He hates Hitler as a matter of fact. He thinks 903 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,960 Speaker 1: he's gross. He's a poor he's poor, he's a corporal, 904 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,000 Speaker 1: right like, he's not as good as me. He doesn't 905 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,040 Speaker 1: have an education, he's and. 906 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,680 Speaker 2: A lot doesn't look like squid words exactly exactly. 907 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:15,279 Speaker 1: It looks like a little one of those bars you 908 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,000 Speaker 1: put over someone's dick if they're naked. Though, absolutely not. 909 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,160 Speaker 1: I'dn't convinced at this point that like, well, I'll hold 910 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,560 Speaker 1: my nose because Hitler, in these Nazis, they can be 911 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 1: a good weapon against the left, and obviously that's what 912 00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,080 Speaker 1: matters most, is crushing the Yah. 913 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:33,000 Speaker 2: There's so much of that happening in through these years. Yeah, 914 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:34,680 Speaker 2: a lot of nose holding. 915 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,960 Speaker 1: Not a lot. Yeah, And it'll happen elsewhere soon. So 916 00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,920 Speaker 1: Hugenberg doesn't stop running his own political party, and in 917 00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,440 Speaker 1: fact he gets in the Reichstag like, he gets elected 918 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:49,759 Speaker 1: to office, and his message, which is not as effective 919 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,000 Speaker 1: as the Nazi message is in part not as effective, 920 00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:57,320 Speaker 1: because he's really speaking mostly to this educated upper middle 921 00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:01,520 Speaker 1: class that buildings Burgertom. As Hermann wrote in The Fateful Alliance, 922 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,640 Speaker 1: the educated elite's fate had been closely aligned with that 923 00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,400 Speaker 1: of the Empire. With the empire's demise, it suffered a 924 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,200 Speaker 1: decline in reputation that increased its alienation from Weimar, to 925 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:15,080 Speaker 1: which inflation added the grievance of material destitution. The inflation 926 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,840 Speaker 1: broke the economic spine of the buildings Burgertom, whose lifestyle 927 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,160 Speaker 1: had been supported largely by their savings, as regular salaries 928 00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:25,200 Speaker 1: rarely sufficed to maintain the material of coutrama that went 929 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,759 Speaker 1: with their exalted social position, such as domestic servants and 930 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,320 Speaker 1: a costly education for their offspring. Probably no part of 931 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,640 Speaker 1: the German population felt the humiliating changes in everyday life 932 00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,840 Speaker 1: more deeply than the educated elite. None felt more distant 933 00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:43,760 Speaker 1: from a republican regime with which reconciliation seemed impossible. Again, 934 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:45,680 Speaker 1: he's like, hey, you guys are angry because your treats 935 00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,600 Speaker 1: are gone. You can't afford servants anymore. Like that's what 936 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:53,239 Speaker 1: he's promising, Whereas Hitler's promising workers, I'll get vengeance. For you, 937 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:55,200 Speaker 1: for all these people who have made your life's hard, 938 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,040 Speaker 1: and I'll make sure you have jobs, and not just jobs, 939 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,840 Speaker 1: you'll get vacations. You know. The big thing the Nazis 940 00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,960 Speaker 1: did was like made it possible for like working class people. 941 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,719 Speaker 1: They had like funded vacations. Like yeah, that's who he's 942 00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,319 Speaker 1: talking to. Hugenberg's talking to like the sort of rich 943 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,920 Speaker 1: who were now sort of poor and like saying I'm 944 00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,239 Speaker 1: going to bring I'm gonna fix things for you. Right So, 945 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,520 Speaker 1: for a time, because this is not that large a 946 00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,799 Speaker 1: chunk of the population, it seemed as if Hugenberg was 947 00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,359 Speaker 1: destined to watch his party shrink while the Nazis grew 948 00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,920 Speaker 1: and grew right alongside the Communists. And while he is 949 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,920 Speaker 1: responsible for funneling some money to Hitler, he refuses to 950 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,200 Speaker 1: compromise within the party, right Like he is not willing 951 00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,600 Speaker 1: to change what the German National Party is saying because 952 00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,960 Speaker 1: he wants it to be his mouthpiece. And in fact, 953 00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,760 Speaker 1: when he gets rid of so many of his rivals 954 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,680 Speaker 1: that like the party is insolvent, like he's gotten rid 955 00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,560 Speaker 1: of enough so many people that were funding it, that 956 00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,480 Speaker 1: like it can't be funded anymore, he just pays for 957 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:52,680 Speaker 1: the whole party himself. 958 00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:58,000 Speaker 2: Yes, now they're still He's like just this sad dude 959 00:51:58,040 --> 00:51:59,160 Speaker 2: with no friends and. 960 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:04,160 Speaker 1: No friends all the money. Again, so familiar to a 961 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,760 Speaker 1: certain plutocrat we all know and are frustrated by today. 962 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,000 Speaker 1: Now speaking of people with no friends, if you want 963 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:21,120 Speaker 1: to have friends, make friends with these sponsors. We're back. 964 00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:26,400 Speaker 1: So Hugenberg is shotgunning some money the Nazis in the 965 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,560 Speaker 1: early thirties, and he's got his party, which is winning 966 00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:31,920 Speaker 1: seats in the Reichstag. It's actually like doing better and 967 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:36,760 Speaker 1: better in kind of thirty two. Not enough to control anything, 968 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,560 Speaker 1: but enough to be like part of a coalition. But 969 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,960 Speaker 1: he knows that, like you know, the Left is also 970 00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,520 Speaker 1: still growing, and I want to win this larger battle 971 00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,439 Speaker 1: for control of the German state. And so he kind 972 00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,359 Speaker 1: of admits, I have to work more directly with the Nazis. Right, 973 00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,560 Speaker 1: It's not enough to just kind of like help get 974 00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:57,880 Speaker 1: some money to them. I have to actually start helping 975 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:01,960 Speaker 1: them out using my resources. So Hugenberg diverts his vast 976 00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,080 Speaker 1: media apparatus to the cause of boosting Hitler. By this 977 00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,759 Speaker 1: point he has a degree of control in some fourteen 978 00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,680 Speaker 1: hundred newspapers and also owns the largest movie studio in Germany. 979 00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,640 Speaker 1: One reporter at the time for a centrist paper described 980 00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:19,719 Speaker 1: Hugenberg as the great disseminator of national socialist ideas to 981 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:24,279 Speaker 1: an entire nation through newspapers, books, magazines, and films. And 982 00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:28,920 Speaker 1: he's doing this because he envisions his party governing alongside 983 00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:33,120 Speaker 1: the other right wing party and the Nazis as a coalition. 984 00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,319 Speaker 1: And so he's like, well, the more votes the Nazis get, 985 00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,719 Speaker 1: the better our coalition can crush the left together, but 986 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:44,799 Speaker 1: will be in a coalition together, right. And it's in 987 00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,960 Speaker 1: this brief period thirty two to thirty three that Hugenberg 988 00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,480 Speaker 1: is going to reach the apex of his evil talents. 989 00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,600 Speaker 1: By this point, he was simultaneously the bag man for 990 00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,800 Speaker 1: the whole far right. He's funneling wealth from Germany's capitalist 991 00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,560 Speaker 1: to the Nazis. He's funding his own party, and he's 992 00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,800 Speaker 1: running this vast media empire. And he's also sitting in 993 00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,799 Speaker 1: the Reichstag as an elected member and directly pushing his 994 00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,080 Speaker 1: own political agenda. And I'm going to quote here from 995 00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:12,279 Speaker 1: an excellent article in the Atlantic by Timothy Riibeck. Hugenberg 996 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,800 Speaker 1: practiced what he called catastrophan politique the politics of catastrophe, 997 00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,600 Speaker 1: by which he sought to polarize public opinion and the 998 00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:24,160 Speaker 1: political parties with incendiary news stories, some of them entirely 999 00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:28,400 Speaker 1: fabricated articles intended to cause confusion and outrage. According to 1000 00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,920 Speaker 1: one such story, the government was enslaving German teenagers and 1001 00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,200 Speaker 1: selling them to its allies in order to service its 1002 00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:38,040 Speaker 1: war debt. Hugenberg calculated that by hollowing out the political center, 1003 00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:42,480 Speaker 1: political consensus would become impossible and the democratic system would collapse. 1004 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,880 Speaker 1: As a right wing delegate to the Reichstag, Hugenberg proposed 1005 00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,799 Speaker 1: a freedom law that called for the liberation of the 1006 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,839 Speaker 1: German people from the shackles of democracy and from the 1007 00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,160 Speaker 1: onerous provisions of the Versailles Treaty. The law called for 1008 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,080 Speaker 1: the treaty's signatories to be tried and hanged for treason, 1009 00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,880 Speaker 1: along with government officials involved with implemating the treaty provisions. 1010 00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,080 Speaker 1: The French ambassador in Berlin called Hugenberg one of the 1011 00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,320 Speaker 1: most evil geniuses in Germany. 1012 00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:11,000 Speaker 2: Oh my god. Okay, so you said, like way way 1013 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:15,440 Speaker 2: earlier in this recording that Hugenberg was not necessarily the 1014 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:17,719 Speaker 2: most introspective motherfucker. 1015 00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,120 Speaker 1: He was like for his own person, No. 1016 00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:27,239 Speaker 2: Not right. So what do you think he thinks is 1017 00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:31,000 Speaker 2: the justification for all of this at this point? Like 1018 00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:36,200 Speaker 2: how is he not feeling cognitive dissonance or guilt or 1019 00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:40,120 Speaker 2: like how is he I'm just curious how. 1020 00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,080 Speaker 1: I mean, why would he feel guilt? You know? He 1021 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,359 Speaker 1: believes number one, it's moral for Germany to be to 1022 00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,040 Speaker 1: take its place in the sun. He believes the Jews 1023 00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:51,279 Speaker 1: are a force for evil. He believes the poor need 1024 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,880 Speaker 1: to be ruled by men like him, and he sees 1025 00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,359 Speaker 1: his bottom line as tied to this. I don't think 1026 00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:58,560 Speaker 1: it goes any deeper than that, I think. I mean, yeah, 1027 00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,480 Speaker 1: is this guy like associate, like, could you diet? Could 1028 00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:03,600 Speaker 1: he have been diagnosed as a psychopath? I don't know, 1029 00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,280 Speaker 1: but like, this is not a man whose conscience troubles 1030 00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,279 Speaker 1: him for what he's doing overmuch? 1031 00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:10,800 Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, clearly. 1032 00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:12,359 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1033 00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:16,160 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty two, the Nazis carry the affluent Germans 1034 00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:18,480 Speaker 1: of the Berlin suburbs for the first time, which is 1035 00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:20,960 Speaker 1: a sign that some of the stuff that's going on 1036 00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:23,920 Speaker 1: here to push them, to boost them is working now. 1037 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,200 Speaker 1: Joseph Goebbels does not want credit to go to Hugenberg, right, 1038 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,600 Speaker 1: even though Hugenberg is a part of why this happens, 1039 00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,360 Speaker 1: because Goebels, who is Hitler's propaganda guy, despises Hugenberg and 1040 00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,919 Speaker 1: he is repeatedly trying to turn Hitler against Hugenberg, which 1041 00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:40,239 Speaker 1: actually wasn't really necessary because one thing Alfred can't do. 1042 00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,680 Speaker 1: He can't suck up. Maybe he can to richer guys, 1043 00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,839 Speaker 1: but he can't suck up to Hitler because Hitler's again 1044 00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:50,360 Speaker 1: some poor asshole who got wounded in the trenches, like 1045 00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,400 Speaker 1: an idiot. Right, that's how Schugenberg looks at these people. 1046 00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:58,160 Speaker 1: He's a social inferior. So Hitler doesn't like Hugenberg I 1047 00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:00,000 Speaker 1: just because no one does. 1048 00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,120 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, no one does. 1049 00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:03,880 Speaker 1: No, he's a but does. 1050 00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:09,440 Speaker 2: You are not understand the exactly but like does Hugenberg 1051 00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:13,520 Speaker 2: not understand the power of youthful cool? 1052 00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:18,200 Speaker 1: Because no, no, no no, And in fact there's a 1053 00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,680 Speaker 1: good bit here. So for words, a socialist paper en Weimar, 1054 00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:25,520 Speaker 1: Germany had taken to drawing Hugenberg as a bloated frog 1055 00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,480 Speaker 1: in glasses like that was their caricature of him. But 1056 00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:32,400 Speaker 1: even Hugenberg's friends had mean nicknames for him. Like the 1057 00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:36,400 Speaker 1: people close to him called him the hamster. Hitler, for 1058 00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:40,520 Speaker 1: his part, called Hugenberg Wow Wow or wolf Wolf right, 1059 00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,200 Speaker 1: like he's a he's a barking dog. Right, he won't 1060 00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,280 Speaker 1: shut the fuck up. He's annoying the hell out of me. Now, 1061 00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:50,000 Speaker 1: that same year, Alfred opposed Hitler in the presidential election. 1062 00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,240 Speaker 1: So again he's been putting money into Hitler and his 1063 00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,959 Speaker 1: propaganda has been boosting the Nazis, but he is still 1064 00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:00,840 Speaker 1: trying to oppose him politically, and he I forget who 1065 00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:02,680 Speaker 1: he backs, it doesn't matter, but he backs someone who's 1066 00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,920 Speaker 1: not Hitler for the presidential election. And during this election, 1067 00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,200 Speaker 1: for the first time, his party actually takes seats from 1068 00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,720 Speaker 1: the Nazis, which does force Hitler to come to the table. Right. 1069 00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:14,640 Speaker 1: Hitler is like, Okay, well, I guess I do have 1070 00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:16,480 Speaker 1: to work with this guy who I don't like very 1071 00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,640 Speaker 1: much because he just took some seats from me and 1072 00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:23,560 Speaker 1: my party's kind of maybe starting to bottom out. The 1073 00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,520 Speaker 1: meetings go by, they try to see if they can 1074 00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:29,160 Speaker 1: work out an agreement to govern together, and they absolutely 1075 00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:33,120 Speaker 1: can't because the Hitler's line, and he always sticks to this, 1076 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:37,120 Speaker 1: is that we'll form a coalition government but every ministry 1077 00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,480 Speaker 1: has to be headed by one of our people, right, 1078 00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,080 Speaker 1: we need them all, no compromise, and Hugenberg's not willing 1079 00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:46,520 Speaker 1: to compromise yet on that. Hugenberg himself is convinced that 1080 00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,480 Speaker 1: since his party has managed to capture a lot of seats, 1081 00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,640 Speaker 1: he and other Conservatives, if they work with Hitler can 1082 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,440 Speaker 1: quote box Hitler in right, So if we let the 1083 00:58:56,520 --> 00:59:00,360 Speaker 1: Nazis rule with us, we can kind of surround them 1084 00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,880 Speaker 1: and we'll stop him from doing any crazy shit. Will 1085 00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:06,120 Speaker 1: be the adults in the room. Right. So by late 1086 00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:08,840 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty three, Hitler and Hugenberg are trapped in this 1087 00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,760 Speaker 1: incredibly difficult situation where Hitler has the ability to become 1088 00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:17,520 Speaker 1: chancellor because you know, he's got Hindenburg's kind of starting 1089 00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:20,760 Speaker 1: to support the idea, like his party's got enough electoral success, 1090 00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:26,200 Speaker 1: but he can't. He needs Hugenberg's support to cross that line, right, 1091 00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:29,240 Speaker 1: both his money and his kind of voting support. Right, 1092 00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,960 Speaker 1: Hugenberg can't be chancellor on his own. He doesn't have 1093 00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:36,560 Speaker 1: nearly the votes, so he can help make Hitler the chancellor, 1094 00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:39,360 Speaker 1: but he can't. He has no chance of getting that 1095 00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,560 Speaker 1: for himself, and the Nazis sure shit aren't going to 1096 00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:47,440 Speaker 1: make him chancellor. So a compromise is reached. Right, as 1097 00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,040 Speaker 1: one of Hitler's friends put it, Hugenberg had everything but 1098 00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:53,440 Speaker 1: the masses. Hitler had everything but the money and that 1099 00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:58,120 Speaker 1: excellent piece. Yeah, exactly, and that excellent piece. For The Atlantic, 1100 00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:02,520 Speaker 1: author Timothy Rybeck describes what happened next. After cantankerous negotiation, 1101 01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,600 Speaker 1: a deal was reached. Hugenberg would deliver Hitler the chancellorship 1102 01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:08,360 Speaker 1: in exchange for Hugenberg being given a cabinet post as 1103 01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:13,520 Speaker 1: head of a superministerium that subsumed the ministries of Economics, agriculture, 1104 01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:17,040 Speaker 1: and nutrition. Once in the cabinet, Hugenberg didn't hesitate to 1105 01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:20,480 Speaker 1: meddle in foreign relations when it suited him. Reinold Quats, 1106 01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:25,200 Speaker 1: a close Hugenberg associate distilled Hugenberg's calculus as follows. Hitler 1107 01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,160 Speaker 1: will sit in the saddle, but Hugenberg holds the whip. 1108 01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:32,400 Speaker 1: In other words, I am writing Hitler to a success, 1109 01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,000 Speaker 1: and I can whip him if I need him to 1110 01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:34,760 Speaker 1: move in a direction. 1111 01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:36,840 Speaker 2: Oh god, now. 1112 01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:40,960 Speaker 1: There is Immediately everyone gets scared when Hitler winds up 1113 01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:47,200 Speaker 1: directly in power in Germany. And then Hugenberg gets this 1114 01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:49,920 Speaker 1: position where he's running all the ministries, and all of 1115 01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,400 Speaker 1: the dumb papers do the same thing they're doing today 1116 01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,080 Speaker 1: with Musk, where they're like, ha, you are so scared 1117 01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:59,919 Speaker 1: of this Hitler guy. This Hugenberg dude is running things obviously. 1118 01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,720 Speaker 1: The New York Times publishes a column where they describe 1119 01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,080 Speaker 1: Huggenberg as an arch capitalist who quote stood in strongest 1120 01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:09,880 Speaker 1: discord with economic doctrines of the Nazi movement. Right, and 1121 01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,320 Speaker 1: they're like, well, he's running the finances, this Nazi Schmatzi, 1122 01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:15,720 Speaker 1: Like Nazi Schmazi. They're not gonna be that scary. This 1123 01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:20,000 Speaker 1: guy is gonna run things, right, and not when. 1124 01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:21,120 Speaker 2: You put Schmatzi after it. 1125 01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the New York Times the name of a 1126 01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:27,720 Speaker 1: little poodle. They're usually wrong about stuff like this, but 1127 01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:31,800 Speaker 1: even the left gets confused. The communist daily paper in Berlin, 1128 01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:36,040 Speaker 1: The Red Banner, argues that Hugenberg is in charge, not Hitler. 1129 01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:39,040 Speaker 1: In fact says that Hitler's socialist mask has slipped. Hah, 1130 01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:42,680 Speaker 1: he revealed his cards. It's the evil capitalists running things, 1131 01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:45,280 Speaker 1: you know, just like we said, and they're they're doomed 1132 01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:48,200 Speaker 1: to fail and then it'll be our turn next. The 1133 01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:52,080 Speaker 1: Weekly Journal dae veltpun described the new government as Hitler, 1134 01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:56,600 Speaker 1: Hugenberg and co. Roughly a day after Hitler was appointed chancellor, 1135 01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:58,840 Speaker 1: Hugenberg is said to have talked to a friend, the 1136 01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,600 Speaker 1: mayor of Leipzig, and hold him, I've just committed the 1137 01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,560 Speaker 1: greatest stupidity of my life. I have allied myself with 1138 01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,480 Speaker 1: the greatest demagogue in the history of the world. So well, 1139 01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,520 Speaker 1: everyone else is like, oh, thank god, Hugenberg's running things. 1140 01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:14,600 Speaker 1: That crazy Hitler guy is just a figurehead. Hugenberg who 1141 01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:16,960 Speaker 1: is has a lot of power right now, but has 1142 01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,160 Speaker 1: become aware enough and is smart enough to be like, 1143 01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:23,080 Speaker 1: oh shit, oh shit, oh shit, this this could go badly. 1144 01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,560 Speaker 1: Like this guy I might not be able to control 1145 01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:27,120 Speaker 1: for long. 1146 01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:32,320 Speaker 2: And is that just was it really just like Hitler's personality, 1147 01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:38,920 Speaker 2: Like everyone underestimated him and then just got fucking clovered 1148 01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:39,439 Speaker 2: by the guy. 1149 01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,480 Speaker 1: Well, the thing that people don't it's the same thing 1150 01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:44,680 Speaker 1: with Trump, right, I always get I always try to 1151 01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,160 Speaker 1: push back when people talk about how dumb Trump is 1152 01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,080 Speaker 1: or you know, what an idiot he is. He's not. 1153 01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:53,160 Speaker 1: He doesn't know a lot of things, you know, but 1154 01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:59,440 Speaker 1: he knows his business, which is getting number one populist support. 1155 01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:03,160 Speaker 1: And also he is really good at maneuvering through organizations 1156 01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:06,440 Speaker 1: to crush dissent and reform them in his image. And 1157 01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:10,360 Speaker 1: Hitler has a similar Hitler is a genius politician. He 1158 01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,960 Speaker 1: is extremely skilled. This is an intellectual skill. He is 1159 01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:16,560 Speaker 1: not lucky. I mean, he's got luck behind him too. 1160 01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:20,920 Speaker 1: It's always a factor. But he is not accidentally succeeding. 1161 01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:24,240 Speaker 1: He is succeeding because he's better at the stuff that 1162 01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:27,280 Speaker 1: matters than the people opposing him that gets too. 1163 01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:31,200 Speaker 2: One of the reasons why people call Trump stupid is 1164 01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:36,000 Speaker 2: because of data that will come out from time to 1165 01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:39,120 Speaker 2: time saying that he like speaks at a third grade 1166 01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:43,160 Speaker 2: reading level, whereas like the average presidential candidate speaks at 1167 01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:44,520 Speaker 2: a tenth grade reading. 1168 01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:49,040 Speaker 1: Whatever fucking new? Right? Yea, yeah? You know who beats 1169 01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,080 Speaker 1: a bunch of people who read it like at twelfth 1170 01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:52,960 Speaker 1: grade level, a bunch of people who read at a 1171 01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:56,520 Speaker 1: fifth grade level with more guns like come on now, 1172 01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:00,480 Speaker 1: who gives it? Yeah and it. Hitler's the same. Hitler's 1173 01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:02,560 Speaker 1: very good at what he does. He's good at building 1174 01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:06,480 Speaker 1: personal loyalty, and he's good at keeping his people in lockstep. 1175 01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:11,360 Speaker 1: They don't act without his approval. Right. So that said, 1176 01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:15,280 Speaker 1: right after Hitler becomes Chancellor and Hugenberg has made this 1177 01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:19,120 Speaker 1: economic minister, he is a kid in a candy store. 1178 01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,080 Speaker 1: Right for the first few months of the Third Reich, 1179 01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:26,360 Speaker 1: Hugenberg has nominal control over the entire German economy. He 1180 01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:30,640 Speaker 1: describes himself as the economic dictator of Germany, and his 1181 01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:34,560 Speaker 1: first big step is to fire every government employee he can, 1182 01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:37,040 Speaker 1: trying to wipe out the entirety. He does a doge. 1183 01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:40,040 Speaker 1: He's trying to wipe out as all of the administrative state. Right, 1184 01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:42,560 Speaker 1: so he had because he's angry that he has had 1185 01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:45,320 Speaker 1: to pay for taxes for public so he wipes out 1186 01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:48,640 Speaker 1: every public employee he can, and at the same time 1187 01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:51,880 Speaker 1: he starts executing a one man war against workers' rights. 1188 01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:55,000 Speaker 1: He cuts his own employee wages by ten percent across 1189 01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:57,200 Speaker 1: the board, he gives everyone a pay cut as soon 1190 01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,920 Speaker 1: as he gets into power, and he guts labor rights 1191 01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:03,200 Speaker 1: the right to strike across Germany. All of this he 1192 01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:06,480 Speaker 1: justifies as necessary in order to get the German economy 1193 01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:09,160 Speaker 1: back into shape, and he uses his vast network of 1194 01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:13,680 Speaker 1: newspapers to manufacture consent for extremist policies that damaged the 1195 01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:17,120 Speaker 1: average German. One of his pet columnists wrote at the time, 1196 01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,960 Speaker 1: the real battle against unemployment lies singularly and alone in 1197 01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:26,240 Speaker 1: re establishing profitability and economic life. Parroting Alfred's personal beliefs, 1198 01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,640 Speaker 1: this editor argued that the goal of state policy should 1199 01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:32,680 Speaker 1: be to rescue the merchant middle class aka small business owners, 1200 01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:36,760 Speaker 1: no matter the costs to everyone else. Now, the focus 1201 01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:39,680 Speaker 1: on the middle and upper middle class was reflected in 1202 01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:42,959 Speaker 1: the few good moves that Hugenberg made, including he puts 1203 01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:46,960 Speaker 1: in a temporary foreclosure moratorium. Now he doesn't do an 1204 01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,919 Speaker 1: eviction moratorium, and that should tell you who he's working for, right, 1205 01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:52,720 Speaker 1: the people who are this kind of middle class that 1206 01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:55,880 Speaker 1: has just lost everything. He sees them as his base 1207 01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:58,280 Speaker 1: of support. He doesn't give a fuck about the renters, 1208 01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:02,120 Speaker 1: the people who are really poor. Right, there's a foreclosure moratorium, 1209 01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:05,919 Speaker 1: not an eviction moratorium. He also launches a limited debt 1210 01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:10,000 Speaker 1: jubilee calculated to support struggling members of the buildings Burgertum. 1211 01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:14,480 Speaker 1: And again, it's just kind of worth looking at sort 1212 01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:16,040 Speaker 1: of some of the stuff that he's doing, because it's 1213 01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,120 Speaker 1: not some of these policies. You could look at it 1214 01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,000 Speaker 1: a vacuum is good, but his overall goal is fuck 1215 01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:24,600 Speaker 1: the poor. I'm going to build support among this kind 1216 01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:29,160 Speaker 1: of educated, upper middle class elite. And of course, Hugenberg 1217 01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:34,360 Speaker 1: also pursues a tariff program focused mainly on agricultural goods 1218 01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:37,280 Speaker 1: in an ill conceived attempt to rescue German farmers. If 1219 01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:41,280 Speaker 1: I tear if all of these foreign agricultural goods, then 1220 01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:45,600 Speaker 1: Germans will farm and be profitable. It'll be great now. 1221 01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:48,600 Speaker 1: The only result to these tariffs was that they skyrocket 1222 01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:51,320 Speaker 1: the cost of living. People who couldn't afford food can 1223 01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:54,480 Speaker 1: now afford food even less, and it goes so badly 1224 01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:57,760 Speaker 1: that Hitler has to intervene. At one point, he blows 1225 01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:00,920 Speaker 1: up during a meeting with Hugenberg and says, it just 1226 01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:03,800 Speaker 1: won't do that. The financial burdens of these rescue measures 1227 01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:08,240 Speaker 1: fall only on the poorest. Like when a Hitler is 1228 01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:14,040 Speaker 1: speaking exactly, Wow, this is unjust you're a real day seriously, 1229 01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:20,720 Speaker 1: so Hugenberg alf for his part, Hugenberg is not afraid 1230 01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:23,440 Speaker 1: to argue with Hitler, and he says, quite literally, we 1231 01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:27,160 Speaker 1: have to let the poor suffer. That eventually will even 1232 01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:30,640 Speaker 1: out the hardships, but they have to suffer first. This 1233 01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:34,600 Speaker 1: does not work more. Germans go hungry. The economy, which 1234 01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:39,520 Speaker 1: had recovered a lot from the hyperinflation a few years back, plunges. 1235 01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:42,640 Speaker 1: One of the few papers Hugenberg didn't control that was 1236 01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:46,360 Speaker 1: still allowed to operate, nicknamed him the Confusions Rat or 1237 01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:51,920 Speaker 1: Confusion Consultant. As is the case today, the mean nicknames 1238 01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:56,400 Speaker 1: don't hurt Hugenberg's feelings. Rybeck describes him as being utterly 1239 01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,520 Speaker 1: calloused to the idea of being despised. And it was 1240 01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:02,200 Speaker 1: true that they hate God, right right. 1241 01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:05,040 Speaker 2: I don't know, how do I get like just the 1242 01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:09,840 Speaker 2: tiniest little bit of that inerg Yeah. 1243 01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:11,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, Yeah. I mean it's you have to 1244 01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:15,400 Speaker 1: write if you're going to do anything. Unfortunately, he is 1245 01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:17,559 Speaker 1: ignoring the fact that people are angry because he's making 1246 01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:21,400 Speaker 1: them starve. Right now, it was true that the left 1247 01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:23,840 Speaker 1: hating him. That doesn't really hurt Hugenberg in this point. 1248 01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:27,160 Speaker 1: They don't have any. 1249 01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:27,360 Speaker 2: Teav anymore them. 1250 01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:30,479 Speaker 1: But he makes a major tactical error at this point 1251 01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:34,479 Speaker 1: because he chooses to believe my money, which Hitler needs, 1252 01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:38,600 Speaker 1: will protect my position relative to Hitler. I'll always be 1253 01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:42,040 Speaker 1: co equal with him because I'm rich, And that just 1254 01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:44,160 Speaker 1: ain't the way it's going to play out. I want 1255 01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:47,840 Speaker 1: to quot from Rybeck again, summarizing what happens next. In 1256 01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:50,400 Speaker 1: late June nineteen thirty three, Well Hitler was trying to 1257 01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:54,639 Speaker 1: assuage international concerns about the long term intentions of his government. 1258 01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:58,760 Speaker 1: Hugenberg appeared in London at an international conference on economic development. 1259 01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:01,479 Speaker 1: To the surprise of every one, including the other German 1260 01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:05,439 Speaker 1: delegation members present, Hugenberg laid out an ambitious plan for 1261 01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:09,719 Speaker 1: economic growth through territorial expansion. The first step would consist 1262 01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:13,479 Speaker 1: of Germany reclaiming its colonies in Africa, Hugenberg explained. The 1263 01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:17,439 Speaker 1: second would be that people without space would open areas 1264 01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:21,680 Speaker 1: in which our productive race would create living space. The 1265 01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:25,160 Speaker 1: announcement made headlines around the world. Reich asks for return 1266 01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:27,960 Speaker 1: of African lands at London parlay, reads one New York 1267 01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:32,280 Speaker 1: Times headline, below that a subhead continued also seeks other territory, 1268 01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:36,400 Speaker 1: presumably in Europe. Such a funny way to write about 1269 01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:39,760 Speaker 1: what World War two is gotta be. They won Africa back, 1270 01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:43,160 Speaker 1: also some other stuff, maybe in Europe. Who knows. 1271 01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:45,280 Speaker 2: Now? 1272 01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:48,960 Speaker 1: Christ today we can say, well Hugenberg, which has given 1273 01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:52,320 Speaker 1: everyone a very accurate warning about what was about to happen. 1274 01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,920 Speaker 1: That is what goes down next, right, But Hitler and 1275 01:09:55,960 --> 01:10:00,800 Speaker 1: everyone else Hitler's furious, so was everyone in German government. 1276 01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:04,040 Speaker 1: For one thing, they don't have an army yet, right, Like, 1277 01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:06,760 Speaker 1: the German army is bullshit at this point. Now it's 1278 01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,920 Speaker 1: strong enough that it could overthrow Hitler, which is a 1279 01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:12,880 Speaker 1: big thing he's scared about, but it cannot conquer anything 1280 01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:16,920 Speaker 1: right now. So they're like, what you're threatening people, You're 1281 01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:19,320 Speaker 1: like threatening to punch somebody, and our arms are both 1282 01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:22,000 Speaker 1: still in fucking traction. Like we can't. You can't be 1283 01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:25,040 Speaker 1: doing this yet, like we have, there's steps before we 1284 01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:29,559 Speaker 1: start acting like this. And so Hitler has his other 1285 01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:32,519 Speaker 1: top people try to pull back from hugenberg statements. A 1286 01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:35,320 Speaker 1: bunch of other like cabinet members start being like, no, 1287 01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:37,479 Speaker 1: of course, we're not gonna take any year up. We're 1288 01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:39,639 Speaker 1: not gonna we're gonna get back, and we're just trying 1289 01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:44,680 Speaker 1: to fix Germany. Baby. You know, Hugenberg is incapable of 1290 01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:47,000 Speaker 1: reading a room, and he doubles and then triples down. 1291 01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:48,920 Speaker 1: He keeps talking about how Germany is going to try 1292 01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:50,479 Speaker 1: to conquer everyone around them, and. 1293 01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:56,040 Speaker 2: Oh fuck yeah, keep that shit on. 1294 01:10:56,120 --> 01:11:01,599 Speaker 1: The down low. Ultimately, the conflict culminates in a cabinet 1295 01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:04,600 Speaker 1: meeting with Hugenberg on one side and everyone else on 1296 01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:07,439 Speaker 1: the other. With this tells you how bad things are. 1297 01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:09,040 Speaker 1: Hitler's the mediator. 1298 01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:18,840 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, God, I can't think of a worse mediator 1299 01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,839 Speaker 2: in all of human history Hitler. 1300 01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:24,240 Speaker 1: If Hitler's the guy in the middle trying to keep 1301 01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:27,360 Speaker 1: everybody calm, things are not going to go well. 1302 01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:33,240 Speaker 2: Hitler's like meeting gently without Buddy. 1303 01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:38,880 Speaker 1: Nobody is angry, you know. So Hitler still at this 1304 01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:43,559 Speaker 1: point has some hesitation of totally dispensing with Hugenberg, and 1305 01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:47,400 Speaker 1: he tries to insist, like, hey, if you'll stop, everything's forgiven, 1306 01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:49,080 Speaker 1: you know. He tells the other people in the room 1307 01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:52,400 Speaker 1: what already happened is no longer of interest. But Hugenberg 1308 01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:55,280 Speaker 1: again refuses to read the room and he doesn't mediate 1309 01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:58,960 Speaker 1: his language at all, and ultimately Hitler forces him out 1310 01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:02,280 Speaker 1: of his job as economic dictator in late June nineteen 1311 01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:06,400 Speaker 1: thirty three. You know, Hugenberg technically resigns, but it's obvious 1312 01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:10,240 Speaker 1: what happened. And this is the end of Alfred's major 1313 01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:13,000 Speaker 1: period of influence in the Nazi regime. He will spend 1314 01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:15,320 Speaker 1: the remainder of the Third Reich living at his estate 1315 01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:18,840 Speaker 1: as essentially a small local dictator, right, Like, he's got 1316 01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:21,800 Speaker 1: this little country home with some towns around it, and 1317 01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:23,840 Speaker 1: he just kind of runs things there, right, And the 1318 01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:26,800 Speaker 1: Nazis more or less leave him alone. They make him 1319 01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:29,120 Speaker 1: sell off all his newspapers. He has to sell his 1320 01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:31,760 Speaker 1: media empire, but he gets a good price for it, right. 1321 01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:36,120 Speaker 1: His party is dissolved pretty quickly after this, but he 1322 01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:38,760 Speaker 1: gets to remain a guest member of the Reichstag, which 1323 01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:41,439 Speaker 1: isn't really in charge of anything anymore. It's just sort 1324 01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:44,679 Speaker 1: of a we'll let you keep this because we don't 1325 01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:47,120 Speaker 1: really want to have a fight with you. His wealth 1326 01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:49,920 Speaker 1: and connections did protect him from the Night of Long Knives. 1327 01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:52,720 Speaker 1: He's never purged, but he clearly understands it. I have 1328 01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:54,479 Speaker 1: to stay out of the spotlight if I don't want 1329 01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:57,280 Speaker 1: to lose my money and my nye shit. And that's 1330 01:12:57,320 --> 01:13:01,320 Speaker 1: what he does for the remainder of the Third Reich. No, Yeah, 1331 01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:05,280 Speaker 1: he's just kind of chilling. And when Hitler shoots himself 1332 01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:08,160 Speaker 1: in that bunker and the Third Reich falls, Hugenberg had 1333 01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:10,679 Speaker 1: been out of direct power long enough that the Allies 1334 01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:12,639 Speaker 1: don't really focus on him as a danger. 1335 01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:14,160 Speaker 2: He doesn't get up. 1336 01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:17,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, they kind of. He does get arrested in 1337 01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:20,439 Speaker 1: forty nine as part of like this denotification process, but 1338 01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:23,639 Speaker 1: he gets he gets basically ruled to be like, ah, 1339 01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:25,439 Speaker 1: you weren't really a Nazi, you know what. 1340 01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:27,439 Speaker 2: He's really old by then. 1341 01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:31,559 Speaker 1: He's old. He dies two years later, but he's never 1342 01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:35,439 Speaker 1: upun it. He's allowed to keep his possessions in his business. 1343 01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:39,880 Speaker 1: And he dies, you know, peacefully, on March twelfth, nineteen 1344 01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:41,280 Speaker 1: fifty one. 1345 01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:43,439 Speaker 2: Oh did he ever have a family? 1346 01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:45,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think he had some. 1347 01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:46,080 Speaker 2: Oh he do. 1348 01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:48,320 Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think. I don't think he 1349 01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:52,040 Speaker 1: thinks much about them. So whatever, I'm not gonna Oh. 1350 01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:54,600 Speaker 2: I'm sure they hated his guts. He sounds he. 1351 01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:55,840 Speaker 1: Sounds like a real dick. 1352 01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:57,040 Speaker 2: You know. 1353 01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:00,320 Speaker 1: They they might not have been great themselves. 1354 01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:01,519 Speaker 2: I'm sure. 1355 01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:02,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1356 01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:07,120 Speaker 2: Whoa wow. What a random piece of shit. 1357 01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:09,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he's a piece of shit that is 1358 01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:12,840 Speaker 1: very much crafted by his social class and his time, 1359 01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:16,519 Speaker 1: and he's very much again he's he is there there, 1360 01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:19,519 Speaker 1: Elon Musk. He's this guy who as soon as the 1361 01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:22,960 Speaker 1: fascists come into power, gets the job of wiping out 1362 01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:28,040 Speaker 1: the administrative state and completely fucking the economy, and then 1363 01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:30,680 Speaker 1: I guess shit canned right as soon as he's no 1364 01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:31,439 Speaker 1: longer useful. 1365 01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:34,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I mean it is true that like 1366 01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:38,519 Speaker 2: a major difference between him and Elon is that he 1367 01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:42,280 Speaker 2: came from not nothing, but nothing compared to Elon, and 1368 01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:47,120 Speaker 2: so no rich rise exactly, and so like his rise 1369 01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:52,000 Speaker 2: is a little scary because there was like no warning. 1370 01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:54,400 Speaker 2: He was just like bobin and weave and Bobbin and 1371 01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:58,800 Speaker 2: weavin his way to this like opportunistic position, and it 1372 01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:02,559 Speaker 2: kind of inspires to feelings like holy ship, like who's 1373 01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:05,759 Speaker 2: going to be the next this guy? And wow, I'm 1374 01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:10,160 Speaker 2: kind of like soothed that more people like this are 1375 01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:12,800 Speaker 2: are not coming up already. 1376 01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:16,120 Speaker 1: I mean they are, and this is what got a 1377 01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:23,479 Speaker 1: little bit of I think the difference is that number one, 1378 01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:25,840 Speaker 1: most of those guys don't didn't bother to buy a 1379 01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,400 Speaker 1: political party of their own. Instead, we're like. 1380 01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:31,920 Speaker 2: Get involved with weapons manufacturing and like selling weapons. 1381 01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:37,880 Speaker 1: Really, I mean Peter t Alan's palanteer, Yeah, I mean 1382 01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:40,880 Speaker 1: it's a it's a kind of weapon system. 1383 01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:42,719 Speaker 2: Right right, right, right right. 1384 01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:45,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that Musk hasn't so much gotten involved in 1385 01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:46,759 Speaker 1: that entirely. 1386 01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:49,680 Speaker 2: But like you know, but I guess define weapon in 1387 01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:57,639 Speaker 2: the digital exactly. Yeah, damn, okay, fuck whoa, it's. 1388 01:15:57,439 --> 01:15:59,200 Speaker 1: Always the same people. 1389 01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:01,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1390 01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:08,000 Speaker 2: Oh and it's always a dude who has weird, weird face. 1391 01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:14,679 Speaker 1: Yep, it's always it's always a fucking yeah, some busted 1392 01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:15,799 Speaker 1: weird asshole. 1393 01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:27,640 Speaker 2: What a bastard? Yeah wow, thank you for regelling me 1394 01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:32,240 Speaker 2: with that tail. It was a roller coaster. I'm I'm 1395 01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,200 Speaker 2: I keep thinking back on this. On this art exhibit 1396 01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:38,160 Speaker 2: I went to in Zurich where what was his name, 1397 01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:40,160 Speaker 2: clumped glop. 1398 01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:44,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, was it climped? Crupt was the 1399 01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:46,600 Speaker 1: arm manufacturer, but I think there was a there's a 1400 01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:48,719 Speaker 1: yeah artist clip yeah. 1401 01:16:48,920 --> 01:16:53,400 Speaker 2: Oh, not not climt. I'm talking about the weapons manufactured, 1402 01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:55,080 Speaker 2: the arms manufacturer. 1403 01:16:55,320 --> 01:17:02,160 Speaker 1: Yeahrupt k r U p P Yeah oh Crup Yeah yeah, 1404 01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:05,920 Speaker 1: there's a Crup family collection of artwork. Yeah that traveled 1405 01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:11,280 Speaker 1: around massive. Yes, well, then that's where their money came from. 1406 01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:18,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's wild. I was just like pondering the 1407 01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:21,800 Speaker 2: how weird, how weird it was, and this was like 1408 01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:26,799 Speaker 2: the point of the exhibition to like admire these beautiful artworks. 1409 01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:29,040 Speaker 2: I mean there were like Monaise in there and Desgades 1410 01:17:29,080 --> 01:17:29,400 Speaker 2: in there. 1411 01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:31,120 Speaker 1: You have the money to buy them. 1412 01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:34,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And like he was like celebrated as an art 1413 01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:37,760 Speaker 2: collector like this amazing taste or whatever, and like the 1414 01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:40,360 Speaker 2: reason he was able to acquire that artwork was because 1415 01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:45,080 Speaker 2: he was like making weapons that did World War two 1416 01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:46,960 Speaker 2: or made World War two possible and. 1417 01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:51,000 Speaker 1: World War one and two because CRUP is arming Germany 1418 01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:54,320 Speaker 1: in both. But every one of those paintings represents a 1419 01:17:54,400 --> 01:18:00,120 Speaker 1: pile of corpses of Yeah, yeah, teenage boys primary, Oh 1420 01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:01,759 Speaker 1: it's good, it's good stuff. 1421 01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:05,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, you love to see it? 1422 01:18:06,240 --> 01:18:07,680 Speaker 1: You don't, but you see it. 1423 01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:10,640 Speaker 2: No, you do see it. 1424 01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:17,760 Speaker 1: Speaking of what you see, where can people see you? 1425 01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:22,519 Speaker 2: Yeah? Thank you so much for having me. This was awesome. 1426 01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:26,040 Speaker 2: I love, I love well, I love and I hate 1427 01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:29,200 Speaker 2: and feel, I feel icky, and I feel great about 1428 01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:31,479 Speaker 2: knowing stories like the one you just told me. And 1429 01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:34,959 Speaker 2: if people want to know stories that will make them 1430 01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:39,840 Speaker 2: chortal and also feel a little disturbed, they can find 1431 01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:44,880 Speaker 2: me at sounds like a cult pod wherever you stream podcasts. 1432 01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:47,840 Speaker 2: I have another podcast called Magical Overthinkers, and I got 1433 01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:50,559 Speaker 2: a bunch of books. Cult dish the age magical overthinking. 1434 01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:53,040 Speaker 2: I love talking about social science in a cheeky way. 1435 01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:56,680 Speaker 1: Uh huh, excellent. All right, we'll check out Amanda and 1436 01:18:56,760 --> 01:19:01,920 Speaker 1: her work and check out our modern Alfred Hugenbergs as 1437 01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:06,280 Speaker 1: they engage in the process of flaming out and getting 1438 01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:10,679 Speaker 1: forced out by the fascists who are going to use 1439 01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:12,600 Speaker 1: the power given to them by these people to do 1440 01:19:12,680 --> 01:19:17,080 Speaker 1: god knows what. Hopefully, uh not as much as the 1441 01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:20,200 Speaker 1: last ones. We'll see everybody had a great weekend. 1442 01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:27,479 Speaker 3: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media. 1443 01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:31,120 Speaker 3: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia 1444 01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:34,479 Speaker 3: dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 1445 01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:37,720 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the 1446 01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,800 Speaker 3: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday 1447 01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:45,559 Speaker 3: and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash 1448 01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:47,240 Speaker 3: at Behind the Bastards