1 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature Future production of My Heart Radio. I'm 2 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: your host of Many Parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show, it's a 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: conspiracy from human conspiracies involving animals, to literal conspiracies of lemurs, 5 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: to a conspiracy of slander against some of the world's 6 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: most misunderstood animals. We're getting out our thumb tax and 7 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: corkboards to connect the dots and sometimes spots. We're also 8 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: going to reveal the answer to last week's guests Who's 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: talking Mystery Animal sound contest Discover the s'moor as we 10 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: answered the angel question, should you trust that cat across 11 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: the street or is it c I A joining me 12 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: today to redacted and Redacted is host of the hit 13 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: podcasts Ridiculous History and Stuff they Don't Want You to Know, 14 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: Ben Bolan. Katie, thank you so much for having me 15 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: on this show. This is this is amazing. We have 16 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: we have hung out together on air before, and I 17 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:21,559 Speaker 1: have I've definitely learned some things that surprised I remember 18 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: I was I was gonna say, and in some cases 19 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: haunted me. I will never look at woodpeckers the same 20 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: I know what's going on with their tongues now. And 21 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 1: you told me that there was going to be a 22 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: conspiracy episode of Creature feature. When you said that, my 23 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: mind went in a million places. But I cannot wait 24 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: to dive into this with you. Yes, yes, I I 25 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: feel like conspiracy theories have gotten really stupid lately. I 26 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: mean just low, low effort, dumb the stuff, the anti 27 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: VAXX stuff. It's just really you're just gonna take horse medicine, 28 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, like like that's not the kind of 29 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: animal conspiracy that that eye indoors personally, you know, leave 30 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: the horses alone. Yeah, let him. Let you know, horse 31 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: medicine should be for horses. And I know that's something 32 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: that a lot of hot take. Yeah, fans of recreational 33 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,799 Speaker 1: academine hate me for that one. But but the the 34 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: point of the matter is, Yeah, with with the term 35 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory, it's often, especially the modern day, associated with 36 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: things that are maybe politically frauds, or things that start 37 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: with a a grain of some grain of often misunderstood truth, 38 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: right and then or some iteration of an older conspiracy theory, 39 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: and they spin out in the age of ubiquitous community cation, 40 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: and social media so on stuff they once you know, 41 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: we apply critical thinking to think to everything that you 42 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:12,399 Speaker 1: could imagine occurring on an X Files episode basically and 43 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: H and animals I think can be a surprisingly big 44 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: part of this. A lot of people maybe aren't aware 45 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: of just how many strange allegations there have been about 46 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: what humans do with animals and against animals themselves throughout 47 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: the span of civilization. Yeah, there's a lot of interesting 48 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: folklore when it comes to animals. We I love to 49 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:43,119 Speaker 1: talk about it on the show the from dolphins river 50 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: dolphins that emerge from the water and seduced your daughters 51 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: to animals that, oh, people are licking these toads to 52 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: get high. There's all sorts of all sorts of fun 53 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: like little Old Wives tales, sometimes they turn out to 54 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: be true. Um. But in terms of like real animal conspiracies, 55 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: I was surprised to find how many, like actual verifiable 56 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: conspiracies do involve animals. Uh. And I'm I'm talking about 57 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: real like we're really getting conspiracies like c I a 58 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: level we're going to be put on a list somewhere 59 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories that we're going to talk about. Uh, because 60 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: like if you thought like, Okay, yeah, you're probably gonna 61 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 1: do sort of like conspiracy like animal like a squirrel 62 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: stealing another squirrel's nut, and that does happen. But now 63 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: I'm actually going to talk about literal ci a conspiracy 64 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: theories or sorry, literal CIA conspiracies involving animals during the 65 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: Cold War. I think I I think I have an 66 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: inkling of where we're going, and Katie, I love that 67 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: you have. You have made a very important distinction already, 68 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: a brilliant distinction, which is between the distinct between something 69 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: we would call a conspiracy theory, which is also the 70 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: way it's used is not is not. People aren't using 71 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: the scientific definition of theory when they're saying conspiracy theory. 72 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: I bet, I bet bees run television. I bet its bees, 73 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: like think about it, other than the one one channel 74 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: that has a peacock as a mascot the rest of 75 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: its bees. But but there the other idea, like the 76 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: thing you specifically mentioned here with the CIA is you 77 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: said conspiracy not conspiracy theory. I guess in the case 78 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: of television, it would be a conspiracy. I'm sorry, banned, 79 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: banned from the show forever. But but but you're You're 80 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: absolutely right, and that's something that Um, that's something that 81 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: people should be aware of in the in the in 82 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: the modern world, and in even historical anecdotes. Right, Like, 83 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: if something there are proven conspiracies, and then conspiracy theories 84 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: often are just masquerading is fact right exactly? I mean 85 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: you know, a conspiracy you can sometimes like FOIA like 86 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: Freedom of Information Act request document, actually read about it, 87 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 1: real documents find out that there was indeed a conspiracy, 88 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: Whereas a conspiracy theory is you're up late one night 89 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 1: and you're like, I bet birds are all surveillance drones 90 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: and you're you're up drinking coffee trying to take photos 91 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: of the birds. Um, yeah, that's but yeah, in this case, 92 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: these are as far as they can be verified, verified conspiracies. Uh. 93 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: And of course the Cold War was chock full of 94 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: conspiracies because of all the spycraft going on, all the 95 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: fun little games we played when we both US and 96 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: the USSR had nuclear weapons that could wipe out all 97 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: life on Earth. What a fun, fun time that was. Yeah, 98 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: the US trained animals to do spy work during the 99 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: Cold War because the c I A is frightening lee weird, 100 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, these these guys control so much, 101 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: they have so much to do with geopolitics, the CIA, 102 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: and then they're really just a bunch of dudes going 103 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: like bet I could train a spider, but I could 104 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: do that. Yeah. I always imagine this, you know, whenever here, 105 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: especially about Cold War era plans, whether it's assassination attempts 106 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: against Castro of Fidel Castro or something like that, or 107 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: whether it's the stuff that we're describing. My my first 108 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: thought as always like, what is it? What is it 109 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: like in their you know, pitch room, and they have 110 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: the equivalent of that is somebody, you know, is there 111 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: like a mental image with a bunch of scrawled out 112 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: fans on a blackboard, a bunch of crumpled paper, and 113 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: then people just holding their heads in their hands. And 114 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: then somebody's like, no, yea spiders. Yeah, yeah, I imagine 115 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: some guy just like tossing pencils up into the ceiling, going, 116 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: you know what, we should try out birds birds as spies. 117 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: Birds would make good spies. You guys remember birds? Right? 118 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: Remember birds? Yes, you said you said Russia was not 119 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: that far as far as the crow flies. That got 120 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: me thinking. That got me thinking hard I like how 121 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: increasingly bio you know, like boys forget about it and 122 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: forget about it. We'll deal with these Russians, no worries. 123 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: So the c i A in fact recruited some of 124 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 1: the most talented animal trainers, people who had studied B. F. 125 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: Skinner's techniques. So B. F. Skinner was, of course the 126 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: psychology is who came up with the Skinner box a 127 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: k a. Operant conditioning. You can place a test animal 128 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: like a rat, into a box and reward it with food, or, 129 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: if you're unscrupulous, punish it with a slight electric shock, 130 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: and through reward or punishment, you can teach it to 131 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: pull the right lever to get the reward. So this 132 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: idea that you could take an animal as seemingly simple 133 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: as a rat. Obviously we know that rats are quite 134 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:34,719 Speaker 1: complicated and intelligent, but you could train them to operate 135 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: levers or or turn on a series of lights or 136 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: something in order to receive the best reward or avoid 137 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: the electric shock that it might receive was kind of 138 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: a revelation. But so so these animal behavioral experts who 139 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: framebee of Skinners techniques, who were these really good animal 140 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: experts able to train animals in really unbelievable ways were 141 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: recruited by the CIA for Cold War Shenanigans. So one 142 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: of the animal trainers recruited by the c i A 143 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: was Bob Bailey, an animal trainer who worked for animal 144 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: behavior enterprises in Hot Springs, Arkansas. So he trained animals 145 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: to perform in roadside attractions, including something that was called 146 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: the i Q Zoo, where children and their parents could 147 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: watch chickens play tic tac toe or raccoons play basketball. 148 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: Just a fun All American time quick question, Katie, So, 149 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: I I have heard of i Q Zoo, but I 150 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: know this is something a lot of folks listening in 151 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 1: today are going to wonder as well. Are the chickens 152 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,719 Speaker 1: really playing tic tac toe? Are are these animals that 153 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: appear to be doing you know, cute, c human and 154 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: eligent things? How in there? Oh right? We can literally 155 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: say in their bird brains, at least in the case 156 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: of the chicken, what What's what's happening in? Uh? In 157 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: this scenario often what is really happening is a Clever 158 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: Hans sort of situation. So Clever Hans was that horse 159 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,719 Speaker 1: that could quote unquote do math and uh it was 160 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: a horse. Uh. That was training. I think it was 161 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: back in the around the turn of the century. And 162 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: it could stomp. Uh. So you would give it a 163 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: math problem and it would, you know, stop, like what's 164 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: two plus two? And it stopped four times eight plus ten. 165 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: It's stomp eighteen times. But it was actually looking to 166 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: cues from its owner, subtle cues of when to stop stomping. 167 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: And that's how it did math. So still using being 168 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 1: very intelligent, but no, not actually doing math. Now, with 169 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 1: chickens being trained to play tic tac toe, of course 170 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: they are likely not thinking through the rules of tic 171 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: tac toe. They don't understand the concept of the game. 172 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 1: But they are likely able to be trained to use 173 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: visual cues of the tic tac toe board uh in 174 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: order to do the thing that they know will get 175 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: them the treats. So they could probably do some pattern recognition, 176 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: but they don't think like I am winning at this 177 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: game of tic tac toe. I am mr Chicken. I 178 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: cannot wait for my corn reward. Uh. Okay. But to 179 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: the c the c I a UM operatives or agents 180 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: who were considering this guy specifically as an asset, where 181 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 1: they is this like a movie moment that people might 182 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: see in um in a heist film, like where where 183 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: you know? In a heist film, and there's always like 184 00:12:55,640 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: the ringleader folks who go and observe a special and 185 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: then say, you know, like that's our that's our first 186 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: guy picks a lot like this one. It's two of 187 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: them driving on a road trip to do some c 188 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: I A spooky stuff and then like some of the 189 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: spy work, it's so easy. I think a chicken could 190 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: do it. And then they see a chicken playing tic 191 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: tac too. He's like, I got an idea, I got 192 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: an idea. White bulb, anybody else feel that light bulb 193 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: over my head? Uh? The chicken cross the road to 194 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 1: spy on the rooskis the the original and redacted punchline 195 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: to that joke. So this is uh, And it wasn't 196 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: a joke in the beginning. So this this really happens. 197 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: So what did they? What? How? Like how do you 198 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: how do you start that conversation if you're the c 199 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: I A like, do you is it? Is it like 200 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: that Willem Dafoe me where you're like, you know, I'm 201 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: something of a tic tac toist myself or something to 202 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: the chicken. You're talking to the chicken. Yeah, I'm not. 203 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: I gotta say I'm impressed with your work here, Mr 204 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: Mr Kluks. Sorry, It's just you could imagine, like I 205 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: love the CIA operative, like bypassing the human trainer right 206 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: and then just talking directly to the chicken like fingers 207 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: steeple the little pile of corn on the table. Listen, 208 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: Mrs Nugget, I'm very interested in what you're doing here 209 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: at this organization. Here's my card. Yeah, yeah, no, it's 210 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: it is. If it sounds kind of silly and absurd, 211 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: I mean it is, it's uh. But you know, the 212 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,479 Speaker 1: c i A like got wind of these these trainers, 213 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: fabulous trainers at the i Q Zoo. The trainers would 214 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: use the same methods they used to train a chicken 215 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: to play tic tac toe or raccoon to play basketball 216 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: to help the c i A create animals for use 217 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: of sp eyes during the Cold War. So this included 218 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: cats and pigeons and ravens. Um Bob Bailey, the trainer 219 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: we're talking about, also helped train dolphins for military use. 220 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: So uh, you know, a lot of a lot of 221 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: a lot of shady animal stuff going on here. One 222 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: of the things that UH that Bob Bailey and his 223 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: other animal trainers did during the Cold War was trained 224 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: ravens the bird to fly to a location and drop 225 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: would appeared to be a piece of fallen roof slate, 226 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: but actually it contained a spy microphone inside of it. 227 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: So a raven would land on a roof, a piece 228 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: of slate would like drop down somewhere. You wouldn't think 229 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: much of it. You just think like a piece of 230 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: the roof, uh fell down, and then the raven would 231 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: fly off and there's it would leave a microphone there 232 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: in its place. That's a pretty actually so far of 233 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: the like the three that we've named, that one's not 234 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: a terrible idea of Ravens are so crazily intelligent. They're 235 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: very smart, Yeah, Corvid's including ravens and crows. Yes, very 236 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: very intelligent. Trainable in the sense that if it sees 237 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: a benefit to your relationship, maybe you could get it 238 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: to do something. It's not not like a dog that 239 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: is naturally willing to work along with humans. But yes, 240 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: they are strictly speaking trainable. And yeah, that that in 241 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: terms of spycraft is rather impressive. Also, I think I 242 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: read that Raven is also the name of a male 243 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: spy who is meant to seduce people. So, uh, thet 244 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: to black Widow. I'm not sure if that's what that's 245 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: just the Marvel name for it, but yeah, but I 246 00:16:58,080 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: think it's from Yeah, I think the spy me is 247 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: um actually confirmed it, which is which is a thing 248 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: we're not doing a bit, that's yeah, yeah, because you know, 249 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: spy spy work. Eas since I like those kinds of 250 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: things were used in spy work, it's hard to know 251 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: like how successfully and how often, but definitely yeah, I mean, 252 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: but yeah, I guess these Ravens were not really seducing 253 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: anyone necessarily. They were just dropping microphones on on window ledges. 254 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 1: But so that that plot is actually kind of cool 255 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: and interesting. But other things they tried to do are 256 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: a little more you know, shows that maybe are bloated, 257 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: uh military and spy budget, we're not always used to 258 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: the best that we could have done with that money, 259 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: such as trying to train arthropods like bedbugs, mosquitoes, or 260 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: ticks to detect the approach of humans. Now, to be fair, 261 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 1: it's not a terrible idea. Bad bugs, mosquitoes are ticks 262 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: are parasites that will feed on humans. So the idea 263 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: that they would maybe get a little bit excited at 264 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: the approach of a human. It's not it's not dumb, 265 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: it's not it's not a bad idea that the trick is. 266 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: You know, how do you train a mosquito? Yeah, there's 267 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: I can I'm not an expert, but I can also 268 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: already imagine there would have to be a lot of 269 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 1: science that I am not aware of, or there would 270 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: have to be some mosquitoes that are much more intelligent 271 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: than I have ever acknowledged. And if that is the case, 272 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: then I would like to get in front of this 273 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: and apologize wholeheartedly to the entire mosquito population. Luckily, you're 274 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: probably never going to have to pay for your anti 275 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: mosquito crimes and mosquito court because indeed, they are not 276 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: very smart. Another problems they don't live very long, So 277 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: you go to the trouble to train a mosquito and 278 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: then you're gonna be dead pretty soon. So you got 279 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: to train a whole new generation mosquitoes. But yeah, they 280 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: did see some potential use of mosquitoes to see like, okay, 281 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: maybe a mosquito could detect an incoming human uh, the 282 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: other insects that they tried on. It didn't really work 283 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: that well. Um, But yeah, I don't think that technology 284 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: was ever really useful. I think modern technology like you know, 285 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,719 Speaker 1: heat sensing, vision and and things was much It just 286 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: there was no way to compete with the evolving technology 287 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: like mosquito. Having a mosquito in a jar to see 288 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: if someone was approaching turns out not to have been 289 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: the amazing military technology to win the Cold War. I 290 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: didn't think I'd be saying the sentence today. But with 291 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,959 Speaker 1: with all due respect to uh, both both the members 292 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: of the CIA and the mosquitoes in question, you're you're 293 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: absolutely right. It's not it's an idea that has an 294 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: understandable genesis or evolution, right A. Mosquitoes and these other 295 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: parasites can rely on people for sustenance, so they're smart. 296 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: They're smart enough to find people on their own right 297 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: or quote unquote smart enough. So maybe we can just 298 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: sort of weaponize this or focus it. But I do 299 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: think one thing we should mention when we're talking about 300 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: these stories, which are by the way, just going to 301 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: get more ridiculous, folks, is that when when intelligence agencies, 302 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: especially especially the CIA and some some of the other, uh, 303 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,959 Speaker 1: some of the other, like their foreign counterparts during the 304 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: Cold War, when they had these ideas that seem so 305 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: out of the box, they were kind of first they 306 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: were on a mad search for any kind of edge. Secondly, 307 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: there was not a ton of oversight, so you could 308 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: have this thing where people are just sort of like yes, 309 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: ending themselves into stuff that feels most insufferable. Improv troup 310 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: it is, and it's the only improv troup with a 311 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: lot of money, right, So this is so that's that's 312 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: what happens. It's it's highly unlikely that some some person 313 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: just walked into the CIA headquarters and like clapped their hands, yeah, 314 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: and stopped everything and said I had the most I like, 315 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: I got stung by a mosquito when I was coming 316 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: to work. And it's guys, it was like the when 317 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: the apple fell on Isaac Newton. I just saved us 318 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: me Harold Hill, mosquito salesman. Yeah. It just it like 319 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: drifts that way over time. And also, I mean, you know, 320 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: the c I A doing all sorts of experiments with LSD. 321 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: I'm sure there was some you know, as if none 322 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: of them tried it, I mean, come on, come on, 323 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: but didn't pan out? Huh No, no, I didn't really. 324 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: Another thing that didn't quite pan out is, of course, 325 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: you may have heard of this, the cyborg cat spy. 326 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite ones. Yeah, because I have 327 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: I full disclosure, folks, I have two cats that live 328 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: with me, and I, like a lot of people, during 329 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: the pandemic, I was, you know, Katie, you and I 330 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 1: are making a ton of podcasts, right, so I had 331 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: I started recording at home and now these cats are 332 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: just like the worst producers I've ever worked with. And 333 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: I have to be careful because they so that they 334 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: don't hear me. But cats already, um, from what I understand, 335 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: occupy a pretty interesting position in human society in terms 336 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: of relationship with us, because there's a there's an open question. 337 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: I guess the way it gets phrased in layman terms 338 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: is the open question is did cats domesticate themselves? Like? 339 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: To what degree are they? Would? Would you consider them, 340 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: um domesticated? Would it be the same way as something 341 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: like a dog? Are they? And then you know the 342 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: big question. The reason that question is important here, I imagine, 343 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: is because the next question is can you train them 344 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 1: like a dog, right, what this is all the So 345 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: I believe this experiment occurs before that other study which 346 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: is way more recent that seems to indicate cats do 347 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: know their name and they do know when you're talking 348 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: to them. They simply don't care. Yeah, they just don't 349 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: choose to acknology you at this time, which is their choice. Well, 350 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: to answer your question, which is something that I think 351 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: comes up a lot, because of course, I think we're 352 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: very naturally curious about the two most popular pets in 353 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: the world's dogs and cats. I love them both. I 354 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: can't pick a favorite. I have a dog, I'm hoping 355 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: to soon get a cat, so I'm on both teams. Um, 356 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: but like, uh yeah, I think in terms of domestication, 357 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: for sure, dogs are far more domesticated than cats. It's 358 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: just that is that is how it is in terms 359 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: of genetics and in terms of our history with them. 360 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: But in terms of training an animal. You can train 361 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: a cat, it's very difficult, much more difficult than with 362 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 1: a dog. Just based on I mean dogs, again, we've 363 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: had this really long evolutionary history with them where they 364 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: have co evolved with us to pick up on our 365 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: cues that we give them our our you know, gestures 366 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: are cues. They're highly attentive, and they're more social than 367 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: a cat is, so they have that social intelligence is 368 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: that a cat doesn't necessarily have. A cat's plenty intelligent, 369 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: but it does not apply that intelligence towards being social 370 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: as Nevertheless, Bob Bailey and the CIA did create a 371 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: trained cyborg cat, basically a cat with acoustic devices surgically 372 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: implanted in it that was trained to eavesdrop on human conversation. 373 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 1: So half nightmare, half kind of cute concept like ah yes, spycat. 374 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,199 Speaker 1: But also it had all this junk implant into it, 375 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: which is a little weird. So it was remote controlled 376 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: by tones that were played in each of its ears, 377 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: so like a sort of just a solid like beeping 378 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: tone and uh one year or the other, and that 379 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: would direct it to go left, right or forward. And 380 00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: it had a recording device implanted I believe in it's 381 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: rib cage, which you know, Uh, it's a it's like 382 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: a RoboCop cat, kind of a kind of a nightmare situation. 383 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: It's a it's a real life cyber cat. It's interesting 384 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: too that the I think for a lot of us 385 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: in one as we're recording this episode. It seems like 386 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: some pretty pretty advanced technology, right, and advanced conditioning I 387 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: believe to somehow teach a cat to turn at a tone, 388 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: to remote remotely control an animal like this, um also 389 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: not great for the cat. No, that kind of invasive surgery, 390 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: I imagine. No. I mean generally speaking, I don't really 391 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: like the use of animals in uh in the military 392 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: or in war. I just it's not not my favorite thing. 393 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: Doesn't It's not very heartwarming to me. It's just kind 394 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: of like, well, that's that's gotta suck. You know, war 395 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: sucks for humans and animals. It's just just kind of sucks. Yeah. 396 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: I don't really like the idea of a cat being 397 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: implanted with a bunch of things and it's like, all right, 398 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 1: go spy on the Russians for us, you know, and 399 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: then maybe we'll give you some wet some of the 400 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,479 Speaker 1: good wet food. But you know, it is it is 401 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: fascinating in the sense of that first of all, that 402 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: you can't train a cat to do these things, which 403 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: really I mean borderline train a cat to do these things, 404 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: but also that we would come up with this side 405 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: It just it seems it's absurd, and I think it's 406 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: kind of there's always this sort of decorum around war, 407 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: that's the super serious, like we are serious people, serious 408 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: men making serious decisions about the fate of the world. 409 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: And it's like, let's just make a cyber cat, I 410 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: don't know, just a cyber cat and set it out 411 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: there and have a listen listen to people, and it's 412 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: it's so wacky and crazy and goofy, and it really 413 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,199 Speaker 1: does kind of make you take a step back and like, 414 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 1: oh yeah, like like Cold War stuff was actually as 415 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: scary as it was, and you know, the whole like, oh, 416 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: we could destroy the whole planet tension going on. It's 417 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: really kind of goofy. Just a bunch of nerds like 418 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: threatening to kill each other. I love I love that servation. 419 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,479 Speaker 1: This is also for for larger context, folks. This is 420 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: also when the same era during which someone in the 421 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: US government said, Hey, what if we just sort of 422 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: nuked the moon? You know, like that The Mr Show's 423 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: sketch about that is not it. They're brilliant writers, but 424 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: it didn't come from nowhere, And so I I completely 425 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: see what you're saying. It's a very important point. So legit, 426 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: someone in the CIA was proposing we nuke the Moon. Yes, 427 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: the idea was that, uh. I can't remember if it 428 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,719 Speaker 1: was exactly the CIA, but there was a report in 429 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifty nine UH that outlines plans to not 430 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: not completely destroy the Moon, but to UH to deploy 431 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: nuclear weapons on it and something called Project A one 432 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: one nine. Because the government is usually terrible at naming 433 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: things in the US and at least their secret projects, 434 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: I'm only bringing this one up because they wanted to 435 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: use these weapons, I think, to ultimately build a colony 436 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: on the Moon. But the reason that's important for today 437 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: show is that it just gives you a sense of 438 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: the broad swave here, Like in this context, the idea 439 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: of cyber cats is is not that crazy. Indeed, it 440 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: might seem like an affordable um alternative to putting in 441 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: a human asset inspy. Right. Yeah, yeah, I guess. Uh. 442 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: If it's between nuking the Moon and creating an army 443 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: of cyber kitties, I guess I'm team cyber kitties. I 444 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: don't know, it's that's a tough one. Yeah, it does. 445 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: I mean, the more research you do into this, the 446 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: more it's just like you realize these people were like 447 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: working at the level of the CIA are often just 448 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: like big kids, you know with the magnifying glass, look 449 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: like burning up aunt colonies. A little scary, but yeah, 450 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: I mean in terms of cyber Kitty, Uh, it is 451 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: a sad ending to it because basically, by the accounts 452 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: that seem to make the most sense, the cat was 453 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: dropped off by some American operatives in in Soviet Russia 454 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: to go do its spy work and then immediately run 455 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: over by a taxi. Just almost immediately run over by 456 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: a taxi, like um took a few daring steps to 457 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: go on its little kitty mission, you know, like uh, 458 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: spy music playing and this head you know, and then 459 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: boom taxi. Yeah. Real sad. Some people who were part 460 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: of the CIA animal training program dispute this account, but 461 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: they of course they would because it's horrible and embarrassing 462 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: and sad. Um. They vague, but their defense was not just. 463 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: They would vaguely say like, no, the the program was promising. 464 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: They didn't like say like no, of course the cat 465 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: didn't die. They just was like, no, no, it was 466 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: it was a promising program, very promising. Uh yeah, very promising. Uh. 467 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: But Tom Vanderbilt wrote a great article for Smithsonian mag 468 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: which I used a lot of this for my research 469 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: for this section. Uh. And apparently he put out a 470 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: request for a freedom of information of FOYA on the 471 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: cat project and was met with rejection from the CIA. 472 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: So this is still kept tightly under wraps. Uh. Yeah. 473 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: The only unredacted information on the program basically is summarized 474 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: as uh, quote, the program would not lend itself in 475 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: a practical sense to our highly specialized needs. That's it. 476 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: And then the rest is just redacted. So what else 477 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: did they do with these damn cats? Mm hmm and why? 478 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: And what was the rationale? I bet embarrassment. I bet 479 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: I bet they got humiliated by these cats. I bet 480 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: they got scratched, like like you know, Agent Smith reporting 481 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: that he got scratched by Mr Mittens, uh, And he 482 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: got very angry and Mr Mittens called him a stinky cat. 483 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: And then when we went back to his office, it 484 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: turns out that Mr Mittens had left him a quote 485 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: unquote deliverable on his chair, and of course, so we 486 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: needed to terminate the project. So I love it. I 487 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: love it. It's all all the redactions are are just 488 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: cute see names they gave the cats and they're embarrassed 489 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: or or their names that are like would have been 490 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,719 Speaker 1: bad for their careers if they got out. You know, 491 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: I don't know where the puns go, but that that 492 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: is fascinating because that that does mean that there's there 493 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: is some sort of secrecy. Yeah, you know what else? 494 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: You know what else been the records of the animal 495 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: behavioral Enterprises, that roadside attraction company that the CIA like 496 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: uh plundered for consultants. All of their records burned in 497 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: a fire in nine nine. Huh, Yeah, I don't it's 498 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: it's just like all their records like oops, all burned 499 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: in a fire. Oh well, look, I'm not gonna say 500 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,720 Speaker 1: it's a conspiracy to cover up some like deep state 501 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: chicken nonsense, but I'm also not going to not say that. Yeah, 502 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: I cut to cut to like a trail of gasoline, 503 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: like drops the gasoline, and they're like around the corner 504 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: Hayden in a in a nearby building. We see that 505 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: just the silhouette of a chicken in a window, and 506 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: it's justly yeah, exactly bark bark, bark, bark. That's how 507 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: chickens cackle. That is something that Katie and I researched 508 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: work bark pork pork pork bark. So yeah, so that's 509 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: that's that's nuts. Though I had no idea that those 510 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: right words had burned down. And we do have to say, 511 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: in fairness for a long time, having records quote unquote 512 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:13,879 Speaker 1: accidentally destroyed was could be a believable thingure. I mean, 513 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: fires do happen, and well, I mean like, but this 514 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 1: is almost the nine nineties, so things things could burn 515 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 1: down in I think more plausibly when there wasn't a 516 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:34,280 Speaker 1: ton of electronics storage is I mean, it's not quite 517 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 1: like the age of the Internet, but that's still the 518 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,399 Speaker 1: kids would call it sus. Yeah, I just wonder what 519 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: like sort of dark chicken psychic stuff projects, like a 520 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: psychic chicken they created. We'll just never know, you know, 521 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: maybe basketball playing raccoons that uh, you know, then we're 522 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 1: trained as assassins. We'll just will never We'll never know. 523 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: We do have to take a quick break, but when 524 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: we get back, we are going to talk about another 525 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 1: animal conspiracy, this time with no humans involved. So we 526 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: have talked about CIA conspiracies where they trained cyber kiddies. Uh, 527 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: but you know, it's um, like, are we the only 528 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: animals who can actually form a conspiracy? Uh? You know, 529 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: is it our humans just uniquely devious, uniquely plotting? And 530 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,879 Speaker 1: I would say no. In fact, there is a very 531 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: real conspiracy out there. You'll have to go to the 532 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: island of Madagascar to find them. Because a group of 533 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: lemurs is a conspiracy. What that's the name, that's the 534 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: group name. That is the group name. A group lemurs 535 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 1: is called a conspiracy. Now, likely they get this name 536 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 1: because they like to huddle up together as if they 537 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: are planning something. Um, but maybe that's not too far 538 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 1: from the truth. So first let's talk about what lemurs are. 539 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: There are actually many species of lemurs, all found on 540 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: the island of Madagascar, which is an island that has 541 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: an incredible amount of biodiversity. Uh. Lemurs are primates. They 542 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,879 Speaker 1: are quite social, and they're typically arboreal, so they live 543 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: in or near trees. The most well known example of 544 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: a lemur is a ring tailed lemur. Oh yeah, yeah, okay, 545 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: so yes, and uh literally there's not too much the 546 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 1: name their ring tailed lemurs because of that distinctive pattern 547 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: on their tails, right exactly. I always thought lemurs were 548 00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: so fascinating because you know, not everybody would think of 549 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: them immediately when they think of primates, right, but they 550 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: have but they have a I think they have some 551 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: surprising surprising behavioral aspects to them social animal would right. Yeah, 552 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:26,240 Speaker 1: I mean, so lemurs are interesting because they are primates, um. 553 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: But they're very they don't have the face of like 554 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: you know, a typical like what you would see on 555 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: a monkey or an ape. Uh. And they are thought 556 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,879 Speaker 1: to be much more a much sort of earlier offshoot 557 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: of the primate phylogenetic tree, and so they're a little 558 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: little less developed, a little less intelligent. Uh and uh 559 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: sort of like in our evolutionary path from sort of 560 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: like tree shrew like animals to humans. The lemurs are 561 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: a fairly early little branch off the tree. However, they 562 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,879 Speaker 1: do have some pretty interesting social behaviors. They also are 563 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: extremely diverse. So the I think the ring tailed lemur 564 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: is probably the most well known example. They've got that 565 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,439 Speaker 1: ring tail, they've got the cute little mascara, so they're 566 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,240 Speaker 1: very photogenic. Um. But there are lots of different lemurs. Actually, 567 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:27,760 Speaker 1: the smallest lemur is the mouse lemur uh, and specifically 568 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: the species that is the smallest of the mouse lemurs 569 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: is Madam Bertha's mouse Lemur or maybe Madame berte Is. 570 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. It might be a German Madam Bertha's 571 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: or Madam Berta's uh mouse lemur. That name sounds straight 572 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: from a children's Yeah, to be honest, but ve get 573 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 1: that Madam's burt mouse lema out of the tea room. 574 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,760 Speaker 1: It doesn't belong in the tea room once upon a time. 575 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: And then very yeah, exactly this this and these these 576 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: dudes are tiny, tidy tiny, like I'm always fascinated by 577 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: uh when I when I see animals like this, like 578 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,399 Speaker 1: if you well, I'm maybe I'm saying if you're if 579 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,439 Speaker 1: you're like most people because I want to feel better 580 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: about my incorrect assumption here. But when if if I 581 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: saw a picture Madame Bertez or no, if I just 582 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: saw a picture of any mouse slimmer, I would think 583 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: the immediately, immediately, the same thing, and I would be like, 584 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,800 Speaker 1: that's a rodent, right, surely, that's a matter that's mouth size. 585 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: They're rats bigger, well, they kind of look like mice too, 586 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: So it only reaches up to about under four inches long, 587 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: which is nine centimeters and just about an ounce, which 588 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: is about thirty grams, and they got mouse like ears, 589 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: little mousey face. They have a thick tail, so a thick, 590 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: preinsile tail. But they look like grumpy, cute little mice. 591 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: They're adorable, very fluffy, looks like um looks a little 592 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 1: bit like a chinchilla with a really long thick tail 593 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,320 Speaker 1: and bigger eyes, bigger front facing eyes. That's the big 594 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,240 Speaker 1: difference between them and like a rodent, a typical rodent. 595 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: They have those front facing eyes, which is typical of 596 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:38,439 Speaker 1: predators or foragers who really need very good uh eye sight, 597 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,280 Speaker 1: whereas a lot of rodents don't have the front facing 598 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: eyes they have. It's a little more side to side. Yeah. 599 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: So these are actually lemurs, not mice. Uh. They're not 600 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 1: the most complex of the lemurs in terms of their 601 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 1: social behaviors. They're not antisocial. They'll sometimes chill together, but 602 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 1: they don't really form complex groups like the ringtailed lemur. 603 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 1: And they mostly forage for food and trees. They're very opportunistic. 604 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 1: They'll eat fruit, but they'll also eat insects. Uh. And yeah, 605 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: they are they are absolutely adorable. Ringtailed lemurs, on the 606 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: other candor, are bigger They're about the size of a cat, 607 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: with a long, bushy ringed tail, bright orange eyes, and 608 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: a fantastic smoky eyeshadow that I'm highly jealous of. Got 609 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: gray fur on its back, white tufted ears, a white belly. 610 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: They're also adorable, absolutely adorable. Uh, And they are highly social. 611 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 1: They form large social groups of around thirty individuals and 612 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 1: they live in a matriarchy. That's right, that's right. We 613 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 1: got we got one, we want we won one, gals, 614 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 1: and these are these are pretty big societies too. You know, 615 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:04,759 Speaker 1: just thirty individual jewels is pretty impressive. Are they So 616 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: if they're matriarchal, then are they also are are these 617 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 1: groupings largely like family based or do they have different 618 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,720 Speaker 1: and I guess my other I have so many questions 619 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 1: because these are fascinating. So we know that sometimes there's 620 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: inter group conflict between other like other kinds of primates, right, 621 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,600 Speaker 1: you know, chimpanzees and one side of the forest will 622 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: say you guys, total bastards chips to the other side 623 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:42,439 Speaker 1: of the force. Do do lemurs typically like are they 624 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:46,799 Speaker 1: known for exhibiting uh, inter group aggression of any sort? 625 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,799 Speaker 1: Or is it more like we're cool, You're cool? I 626 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 1: guess what I'm asking is what's their vibe. Their vibe 627 00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 1: is it's not It's sometimes very chill and sometimes it's 628 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,319 Speaker 1: not chill. Dude, it's not chill at all. Yeah, So 629 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: they go from they go from being very chill to 630 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,799 Speaker 1: being kind of unchilled, but in a little bit of 631 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: a chill way. I'll explain in detail. So, uh yeah. 632 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,400 Speaker 1: So they are a matriarchy, and they do have a 633 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:21,800 Speaker 1: core to each of their troops, which usually is family 634 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: members or relatives of female lemurs. They're not they don't 635 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: all have to be related, but usually you have this 636 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 1: core group of female lemurs. Sometimes they can be relatives. 637 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,160 Speaker 1: Sometimes they will come in and join a new group. Um, 638 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: but they are they're the core of that group. And 639 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,839 Speaker 1: then there is a hierarchy amongst them. Usually the strongest, 640 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 1: most dominant females went out in terms of you know 641 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 1: who they get to boss around and and access to 642 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: mating opportunities. But in terms of males, males are typically 643 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:59,719 Speaker 1: automatically um more subordinate to any of the females in 644 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:04,439 Speaker 1: the group, and males don't really have a hierarchy that much. 645 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,440 Speaker 1: They do have one loosely based on their age. So 646 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:11,320 Speaker 1: the older males are going to be UH take precedence 647 00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,839 Speaker 1: over the younger males and the groups. But males kind 648 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:18,360 Speaker 1: of like are like satellites to these lemur troops because 649 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,600 Speaker 1: they will sometimes stay with a troop and then sometimes 650 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,759 Speaker 1: they'll move off to another another troop of lemurs. And 651 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:30,400 Speaker 1: this is a thing that often happens in UH social 652 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,960 Speaker 1: groups of animals, like even lions. This is the case 653 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 1: because you have UH, you'll have males who really are 654 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,520 Speaker 1: kind of a temporary presence, either they move off to 655 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 1: a new group, or they die fighting a new male 656 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,400 Speaker 1: who comes in, or or are chased out by new males. 657 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,359 Speaker 1: Because the females kind of are the core of the 658 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: prides for lions and with lemurs, not only are they 659 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,640 Speaker 1: the core group of these these troops, they also are 660 00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:01,439 Speaker 1: socially dominant, so they do actually have conflicts and so 661 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: one of the ways that males will resolve conflicts with 662 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:09,680 Speaker 1: one another is and it can be conflict over territory, 663 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,800 Speaker 1: it can be over mating opportunities, and often troops will 664 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,960 Speaker 1: will conflict somewhat with this. But they UH have what 665 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 1: are known as stink fights where the UH, both male 666 00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:27,400 Speaker 1: and female lemurs have some glands uh, near their butts 667 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: that they can use to mark their tail, mark their 668 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,799 Speaker 1: tails and their territories. And they also have males have 669 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:40,439 Speaker 1: these very stinky spurs on their wrists that uh it's 670 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,279 Speaker 1: basically a gland, a stink gland with their musk and 671 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,480 Speaker 1: a spur on there is that they can use to 672 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,279 Speaker 1: scratch at a tree and leave their marking, but they 673 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 1: can also rub it all over their tails and anoint 674 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:58,239 Speaker 1: their tail with their own personal brand of stink. And 675 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,880 Speaker 1: then when they are in a conflict with other males, 676 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,960 Speaker 1: they will waft their stinky tail at them until one 677 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,200 Speaker 1: of them gives up. Wait, wait, that's the fight. Yeah, 678 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,560 Speaker 1: I mean they do have physical fights, but often animals 679 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:18,760 Speaker 1: will attempt to establish who would be the most likely 680 00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,759 Speaker 1: to win the fight without actually doing the fight, so 681 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 1: that because it's costly to fight. Uh. This is often 682 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:32,239 Speaker 1: the case with like say, let me see what's another example. Oh, 683 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 1: there's a lot of animals, like a lot of fish 684 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:39,200 Speaker 1: species who will compare jaw size or reptiles. They'll open 685 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,880 Speaker 1: their mouths and try to see who's got the bigger mouth, 686 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:46,040 Speaker 1: and then they whoever gets the bigger mouth wins because 687 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,120 Speaker 1: then they get to avoid actually fighting each other, and 688 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,200 Speaker 1: it's just assumed, Okay, you have a bigger mouth, you 689 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,520 Speaker 1: could probably chomp me better. Well, let's assume you would 690 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,480 Speaker 1: win this fight, and then neither of us have to 691 00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:00,160 Speaker 1: get injured fighting. So yeah, so it's a similar thing 692 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,840 Speaker 1: with the lemurs. It's like they do resort to physical 693 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:09,360 Speaker 1: fighting sometimes, um, but in order to reduce some of 694 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,160 Speaker 1: the injuries having a non physical fight of like, look, 695 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 1: I've got a stronger musk than you. I'm just overall, 696 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,399 Speaker 1: I've got a better stage presence than you. Just give up, bro, 697 00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:24,560 Speaker 1: like and then yeah, I'm picturing a victory the some 698 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:31,359 Speaker 1: I don't want to anthropomorphize, of course, Okay, all right, 699 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,719 Speaker 1: well they we're going for But it's just as a 700 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:38,440 Speaker 1: as a human analog, I'm picturing like, how would you know, uh, 701 00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,719 Speaker 1: college dive bar fights go if if humans did this, 702 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:47,520 Speaker 1: like if someone like they that compared bo with their 703 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,520 Speaker 1: arms up. College guys don't do that. I feel like 704 00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,080 Speaker 1: they do. I feel like it might depend on the 705 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,640 Speaker 1: school or the bar. I feel like they definitely do, 706 00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:03,400 Speaker 1: like check it out, check out my gym stink, brad stink. 707 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,840 Speaker 1: And so someone's like, oh, you want to go, you 708 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,280 Speaker 1: want to go, and then they're like raised their arms 709 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 1: and they're going you sure, you sure? Guys take their 710 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 1: shirts off before fighting is to like, like, you want 711 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:22,719 Speaker 1: to sniff these pits, bra I'm kind of lonely, That's 712 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,759 Speaker 1: why I lash out. No. But but like the other 713 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,000 Speaker 1: the other comparison would be reps. This is slightly more apt, 714 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,440 Speaker 1: though this is not to be clear scientifically, It's not 715 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,200 Speaker 1: the same thing as as a mus cardinal plan there. 716 00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,759 Speaker 1: But what if what if people were like, oh, you 717 00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,280 Speaker 1: wanta you want to go? You want to go, dude, 718 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:47,279 Speaker 1: let's settle this uh old school Milwaukee style, and then 719 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,800 Speaker 1: they just like start farting at each other. I don't know, 720 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,560 Speaker 1: I think no, I bet they do do that right 721 00:49:55,640 --> 00:50:02,960 Speaker 1: into confirm Directed all to Benjamin Bolan on Twitter. Oh 722 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,680 Speaker 1: my gosh, so but this does I mean. You make 723 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:11,400 Speaker 1: a brilliant point though, like the idea of avoiding injury 724 00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,600 Speaker 1: the wild win possible. Yeah, absolutely, because if you are 725 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:19,040 Speaker 1: like so, especially among com specifics, that means like members 726 00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,360 Speaker 1: of your own species, you're not fighting them to eat 727 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:27,239 Speaker 1: them typically sometimes sometimes, but you're not actually going to 728 00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:32,520 Speaker 1: gain anything from injuring them other than reducing competition, gaining 729 00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,319 Speaker 1: access to territory and mates. So if you can have 730 00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:40,440 Speaker 1: your like quote unquote fight like basically sports, you know, 731 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,560 Speaker 1: a fake a sport is kind of like a fake 732 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,319 Speaker 1: you know, fight between two teams, and then you can 733 00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:48,560 Speaker 1: kind of be like, Okay, we're pretty sure we would win, 734 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,239 Speaker 1: so we don't none of us have to get our 735 00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,239 Speaker 1: eyes cloded out right, Like we don't. We don't have 736 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,120 Speaker 1: to go through that. So like, uh, not chill on 737 00:50:58,120 --> 00:50:59,879 Speaker 1: one hand, but kind of chill on the other hand. 738 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,680 Speaker 1: You know, it's like going to the going to the 739 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:06,080 Speaker 1: beach and having a really intense surfing contest where it's like, 740 00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,880 Speaker 1: you know, maybe someone's cutting into your wave. It's like 741 00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,280 Speaker 1: both chill vibes in on chill at the same time. 742 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:16,160 Speaker 1: It's sort of a form me chill paradox. That's a 743 00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:20,920 Speaker 1: quotable for this episode. Yes, But another cool thing about 744 00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,600 Speaker 1: these little guys, I love them so much. They sunbathe 745 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:29,520 Speaker 1: regularly and they will sit in the lotus position with 746 00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:34,920 Speaker 1: their arms outstretched, their their heads up, just sort of 747 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:39,120 Speaker 1: sitting on like um with their knees up like a 748 00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:43,160 Speaker 1: human and just like chilling out in the sun. And 749 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:47,360 Speaker 1: they look like they're doing yoga and it's it's amazing. 750 00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:50,920 Speaker 1: It's so it's such such good vibes. I'm pulling up 751 00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,640 Speaker 1: a picture now and I've I recognize some of these 752 00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,239 Speaker 1: things from my my years in the meme minds of 753 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,560 Speaker 1: the Internet. This is probably my favorite thing in the 754 00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:05,680 Speaker 1: episode because this is the energy that we, I think 755 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:12,960 Speaker 1: all primates need, you know, I I cannot imagine see 756 00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:17,080 Speaker 1: this in real life. Like if you are if you 757 00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:21,560 Speaker 1: live in this area, is it just normal or you're like, oh, 758 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,239 Speaker 1: that's you know, that's just the lemur. Yeah, just a 759 00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,640 Speaker 1: chill vibes lemur. I mean I think so. Yeah. Just 760 00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,800 Speaker 1: they like to they like to sun themselves. They're there. 761 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,120 Speaker 1: Fur on their bellies is a little thinner than their 762 00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,239 Speaker 1: fur on their back, which is good for thermoregulation when 763 00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,839 Speaker 1: it's hot. But when they want to warm up, they 764 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,080 Speaker 1: gotta they gotta sunbathe their bellies, so, which is why 765 00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:47,919 Speaker 1: it's lighter colored to right, Yeah, exactly. So they love 766 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:53,759 Speaker 1: and also they per when they're happy. What is going 767 00:52:53,840 --> 00:53:00,960 Speaker 1: on with these dudes? What is so I did not 768 00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,440 Speaker 1: know that was a primate thing. Yeah, well, I mean 769 00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:09,319 Speaker 1: it's not exactly, but lemurs do it. So you know, 770 00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,040 Speaker 1: primates make a lot of vocalizations, but purring when they're happy. 771 00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:18,319 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's a that's definitely a lemur lemur thing. Yeah, 772 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,880 Speaker 1: but it's it is. It is weird because again, while 773 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: these are primates, they are not very like us. They're 774 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,960 Speaker 1: they're not much like us at all except maybe a 775 00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:33,240 Speaker 1: little bit of their ability to scheme. So I didn't 776 00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:37,000 Speaker 1: bring them up just because the name for a group 777 00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:41,040 Speaker 1: of lemurs is a conspiracy of lemurs. They are able to, 778 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:47,000 Speaker 1: in a very basic sense, conspire, So what uh. There's 779 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,120 Speaker 1: a lot of research on lemur intelligence because of course 780 00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:55,000 Speaker 1: we're interested in the evolutionary trajectory of primate intelligence, and 781 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,759 Speaker 1: it's assumed that they're not really that smart that you 782 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:02,160 Speaker 1: know they're and you know, there's so shure they're they're adorable, 783 00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:06,040 Speaker 1: like they per the best animal ever, but maybe they're 784 00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:10,080 Speaker 1: not that intelligent. However, there's some research that seems to 785 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:13,520 Speaker 1: suggest they do have some tricks up their cute little sleeves, 786 00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:18,840 Speaker 1: which is they are able to plot a theft out 787 00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,440 Speaker 1: and so they will be presented with some treats in 788 00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,680 Speaker 1: some boxes and they know that if a researcher who's 789 00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,240 Speaker 1: in the room catches them trying to get a treat, 790 00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:34,239 Speaker 1: the researcher will cut off access to that treat uh 791 00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,600 Speaker 1: And so they will not try to get the treat 792 00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,120 Speaker 1: when the researcher is watching, but as soon as the 793 00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:44,879 Speaker 1: reacher researcher turns their back, then they'll go for it. 794 00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,680 Speaker 1: And they time their their treat extraction based on whether 795 00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,520 Speaker 1: the researcher is looking at the treats or if the 796 00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:57,919 Speaker 1: researcher has their back turned so right, so they are 797 00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:03,120 Speaker 1: intelligent enough they understand that they cannot get away with 798 00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:07,600 Speaker 1: a crime if they are currently being surveilled. So it 799 00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,680 Speaker 1: may seem like a low bar or intelligence, but it's 800 00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 1: it is actually quite impressive. It's something that dogs are 801 00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:19,560 Speaker 1: capable of, and dogs are highly socially intelligent. They co 802 00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,040 Speaker 1: evolved with us, we may you know, in fact, a 803 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:26,400 Speaker 1: lot of primate research is like being replaced with dog 804 00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:30,879 Speaker 1: research because dogs are we've discovered over the years so 805 00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,960 Speaker 1: highly socially intelligent that that a lot of kind of 806 00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:37,600 Speaker 1: research that is hard to do with primates because you know, 807 00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,720 Speaker 1: it's it's hard to do it ethically, it's you know, logistically, 808 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,120 Speaker 1: but with a dog, you can have someone bring their 809 00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,960 Speaker 1: pet dog in to do a study where they get 810 00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,280 Speaker 1: treats and it's great and it's fine. So that's pretty 811 00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:58,600 Speaker 1: amazing too, because that's patterns, pattern recognition. That's um object 812 00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,279 Speaker 1: permanence of a sort, right, Yes, theory of mind, a 813 00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:06,600 Speaker 1: very basic basic theory of mind, where they show an 814 00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:11,920 Speaker 1: understanding that if that this other being, this human researcher 815 00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:18,400 Speaker 1: has a visual perspective, and that visual perspective, if it 816 00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,160 Speaker 1: is on them, they can't get away with stealing, and 817 00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,480 Speaker 1: if it's directed somewhere else they can get away with stealing. 818 00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:28,839 Speaker 1: It's very good. Um, of course there's a limit, will 819 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:32,719 Speaker 1: limit to their intelligence. They found that they do not 820 00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,959 Speaker 1: seem to understand how to keep things on the down low. Uh. 821 00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,239 Speaker 1: So if you need to keep things quiet, Lemur is 822 00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,080 Speaker 1: not your guy to get for your heist. Uh. They 823 00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,520 Speaker 1: found that when they rigged boxes with a booby trap 824 00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:49,960 Speaker 1: of like bells to make some noise, so they reach 825 00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:53,399 Speaker 1: their hand and the treat box and then some little 826 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,560 Speaker 1: jingle bells go off, and then the researcher notices and 827 00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,600 Speaker 1: they don't get their treat Lemurs couldn't couldn't understand this 828 00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:02,960 Speaker 1: cons stuff. They did not show any preference. They kept 829 00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:06,279 Speaker 1: you know, triggering the jingle bell alarm, the very very 830 00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:10,120 Speaker 1: clever jingle bell alarm system, and I kept getting caught 831 00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:14,960 Speaker 1: in the act. So, you know, really easy security to 832 00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:19,439 Speaker 1: stop a lemur from stealing your stuff. Not you don't 833 00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,360 Speaker 1: have to invest a lot in a security system. I see. 834 00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,840 Speaker 1: And so this might be part of the reason that 835 00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:32,960 Speaker 1: despite their comparatively high intelligence, they wouldn't be the best spies. Well, 836 00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,760 Speaker 1: there are number of First off, the KGB would have 837 00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:41,240 Speaker 1: been like, what why is that? Don't you'll tell me boris? 838 00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,120 Speaker 1: Have you seen? Is lemur indigenous to this area? I 839 00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:48,560 Speaker 1: did not think so, No, he's you know, what is 840 00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:54,880 Speaker 1: this weird raccoon? Yeah? Like stock Naya. I get to 841 00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:59,320 Speaker 1: make these jokes because I'm roughly half Russian, so I'm allowed. 842 00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:07,600 Speaker 1: You're allowed this. This is uh is interesting because um, 843 00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:11,360 Speaker 1: when you first said they wouldn't be great at keeping 844 00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:16,600 Speaker 1: things on the down low, I did anthropomorphis and I thought, oh, 845 00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:20,560 Speaker 1: these are the these lemurs are the If they add 846 00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:24,640 Speaker 1: social media, they would be the open sharers. Yeah, I 847 00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:27,600 Speaker 1: imagine they would. Though, well, maybe we could train them 848 00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,000 Speaker 1: to use social media, because we have been able to 849 00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:33,120 Speaker 1: train them to use touch screens. So there was a 850 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:35,840 Speaker 1: study that showed that they could figure out how to 851 00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,240 Speaker 1: use a touch screen to get Sugarcube rewards by clicking 852 00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,520 Speaker 1: the correct symbol on the touch screens. So it's the 853 00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,040 Speaker 1: only matter of time before they get their little stinky 854 00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:48,880 Speaker 1: paws on Twitter. They're gonna be all over Twitter and 855 00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:57,400 Speaker 1: Instagram and they'll it'll be the minute stink fights on Twitter. 856 00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:00,800 Speaker 1: That's what we should call Twitter fights. To stink fights. 857 00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,840 Speaker 1: They would be like, uh, yeah, they would. They would 858 00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:10,840 Speaker 1: probably also use a lot of abbreviations. They would be 859 00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:15,200 Speaker 1: like today is hard a f but I uh but tbh, 860 00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:18,960 Speaker 1: I just won I R L wave mistink and then 861 00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:24,120 Speaker 1: oh d lowell and uh. People would love it. People 862 00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,040 Speaker 1: would love a Lemur on the internet. On the Internet 863 00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:32,720 Speaker 1: would yeah, it'd be an internet sensation, book deals, movie deals, influencer, 864 00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:38,960 Speaker 1: uh influencer, you know, just game over, game over. But 865 00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:43,040 Speaker 1: there's okay, But that's that's interesting because I know one 866 00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:47,840 Speaker 1: of the one of the thoughts at least that I'm 867 00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:53,520 Speaker 1: aware of about, well, what Lemur intelligence can show the 868 00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:58,320 Speaker 1: human species um about our own story, right, because we're 869 00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:06,200 Speaker 1: so self obsessed, is is that they their intelligence is 870 01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:11,200 Speaker 1: at least partially. I don't know what the if there 871 01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,800 Speaker 1: is a causal relationship or how you would how you 872 01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:18,360 Speaker 1: would articulate this, but their relationship with one another, their 873 01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:26,160 Speaker 1: social aspect is like an inherent force of intelligence, right yeah. Yeah, 874 01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,840 Speaker 1: if you are an animal and your means for survival 875 01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:37,440 Speaker 1: is social, the idea is that being social requires a 876 01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:42,520 Speaker 1: lot of intelligence. So it's something that because you are 877 01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:48,360 Speaker 1: having to on a very rapid basis use your cognitive 878 01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:52,720 Speaker 1: skills to understand what another individual in your group is doing, 879 01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,560 Speaker 1: what their motivations are, what what you are, how your 880 01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:01,680 Speaker 1: interaction with this individual is gonna fly out. So the 881 01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:05,800 Speaker 1: in so general terms, the more so the more social 882 01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:10,640 Speaker 1: and animal is often they can reach greater heights of intelligence. 883 01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:14,280 Speaker 1: And we see this kind of as a as a 884 01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:19,520 Speaker 1: as a theme. So like, uh, dolphins, elephants, primates all 885 01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:23,840 Speaker 1: very social. Some of the most intelligent animals. See, we 886 01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:25,760 Speaker 1: see it with birds as well. Some of the most 887 01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:32,680 Speaker 1: intelligent birds are highly social, corvids, crows, ravens, magpies, very social, parents, 888 01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:36,760 Speaker 1: very intelligent, highly social. They live in huge colonies sometimes 889 01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:41,640 Speaker 1: of hundreds of individuals. So yeah, being social really really 890 01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:47,760 Speaker 1: helps you wise up because your survival. It then doesn't 891 01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:52,760 Speaker 1: rely so heavily on just your physical abilities but also 892 01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,960 Speaker 1: your mental abilities to be able to get along with 893 01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:59,320 Speaker 1: your group and provide things for your group and then 894 01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:03,480 Speaker 1: you will get things in return. And so yeah, you um, 895 01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:05,920 Speaker 1: it's it is very interesting to me. It seems like 896 01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,240 Speaker 1: most of the it doesn't mean that if you are social, 897 01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:14,680 Speaker 1: you will necessarily uh evolved to have a really very 898 01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,800 Speaker 1: high intelligence or or meta cognition like humans do, but 899 01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:23,880 Speaker 1: it is one of the things that seems to um 900 01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:30,040 Speaker 1: really you know, be a determinant of of intelligence. Now, counterpoint, 901 01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:33,280 Speaker 1: you can have something that's not social at all, like 902 01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:39,720 Speaker 1: an octopus that's evolved its brain completely independently from humans, uh, 903 01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,240 Speaker 1: And I mean it like they branched off so early. 904 01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:45,080 Speaker 1: We're basically branched off at the point of like a 905 01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,280 Speaker 1: worm thing with like just a few yurons, like our 906 01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,640 Speaker 1: common ancestor is like yeah, basically like a little flesh 907 01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,800 Speaker 1: tube with maybe some neurons, and then they evolved their 908 01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:59,280 Speaker 1: own set of eyes, their own brain independently from mammals 909 01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:03,120 Speaker 1: and humans. And they're very intelligent and they're not social. 910 01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:07,040 Speaker 1: So there is I would not say that the only 911 01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:11,280 Speaker 1: intelligent animals are social. There does seem to be a correlation, 912 01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:15,000 Speaker 1: but it is. It's crazy because octopus octopuses are the 913 01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:17,560 Speaker 1: most alien thing we can really have access to on 914 01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:20,880 Speaker 1: this planet, and they're very intelligent, very and they seem 915 01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:23,920 Speaker 1: to have a sort of you know, obviously we can't 916 01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:25,800 Speaker 1: get inside their heads, but they seem to have a 917 01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:32,440 Speaker 1: curiosity about humans. So yeah, very interesting. Well also with 918 01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:35,640 Speaker 1: the with the idea of the octopus. Their octopus is 919 01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:41,200 Speaker 1: what fascinates me. And I think this happens to you 920 01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,280 Speaker 1: as well. Can you find yourself in these in these 921 01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,720 Speaker 1: rabbit holes? Right? And for me, the rabbit holes are 922 01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,000 Speaker 1: often towards the end of the night, you know, when 923 01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:53,600 Speaker 1: when I should be Yeah, two am, it's it's the 924 01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:56,520 Speaker 1: best time to google stuff. It's the time to go, 925 01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:59,960 Speaker 1: you know. And then for me it's like I'll I'll 926 01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:04,320 Speaker 1: whipout like my old textbooks and start trying to trying 927 01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:10,200 Speaker 1: to figure out some weirdly fictional scenario I've made my head. 928 01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,080 Speaker 1: And the main thing for me with with octopuses is 929 01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:19,440 Speaker 1: I would love to find a way to extend their lifespan. 930 01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,600 Speaker 1: A lot of anti octopus people are against this, of course, 931 01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:26,560 Speaker 1: but but just imagine what your mothers against octopuses. I 932 01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:31,760 Speaker 1: hate them. Yes, yes, that's that's a different now. But 933 01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:36,800 Speaker 1: the problem with that is like, um, well it's not 934 01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:40,520 Speaker 1: a problem. Be great for spycraft kind of maybe at 935 01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:46,600 Speaker 1: least for maritime surveillance, but you're right about octopus intelligence, 936 01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:48,760 Speaker 1: and you know there is a way actually to extend 937 01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,640 Speaker 1: their lifespan. Is it surgical? It is surgical, So if 938 01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:58,040 Speaker 1: you remove it is it is basically I forgot what 939 01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:01,040 Speaker 1: the name of the organ is still me, but it 940 01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:06,200 Speaker 1: is basically a hormone gland similar to like the um, 941 01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:10,800 Speaker 1: the thyroid and a human that will release release basically 942 01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,920 Speaker 1: sex hormones for the octopus. And if you remove this 943 01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:18,400 Speaker 1: in a female, uh, it does not die immediately after 944 01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,600 Speaker 1: basically caring for it's it's a brood of eggs. So 945 01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:28,960 Speaker 1: normally in the wild the female will mate, um, it 946 01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:32,520 Speaker 1: will lay a bunch of eggs in sort of this 947 01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:36,120 Speaker 1: like beautiful it almost looks like a strand of of 948 01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:39,400 Speaker 1: jewels or beads, and then it will aerate them. It 949 01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:42,440 Speaker 1: doesn't eat this whole time. It starves itself for months 950 01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:46,480 Speaker 1: and months and it'll gently aerate the water and oxygenate 951 01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:49,480 Speaker 1: the water and take care of these eggs, and then 952 01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:53,240 Speaker 1: it will die because it's malnourished. Uh. And it's spent months, 953 01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:57,000 Speaker 1: just like expending all of its energy into making sure 954 01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:59,800 Speaker 1: that its eggs have the best chance of survival. If 955 01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:05,080 Speaker 1: you remove either sever or remove this gland, the octopus 956 01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:08,240 Speaker 1: females no longer have this instinct and they do not 957 01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:12,320 Speaker 1: care for their brood and they continue living. So that's 958 01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:16,880 Speaker 1: the trade off. So like I, I remember, we've read 959 01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:19,760 Speaker 1: some of the same things. You know, this is this 960 01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:23,000 Speaker 1: is one of those moments where I have the I 961 01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:25,320 Speaker 1: don't know if this happened to you, but I have 962 01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:29,920 Speaker 1: the like the dark night of the research soul where 963 01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,400 Speaker 1: you know, I noticed the time and I go, oh 964 01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:36,080 Speaker 1: boits it is for a um, I've learned a lot 965 01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,880 Speaker 1: about octopus surgery. Maybe I can maybe I could tell people. 966 01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:45,360 Speaker 1: That's why are you a subscriber of Octopus Surgery Monthly too? Yes? Yeah, yeah, 967 01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:49,760 Speaker 1: I'm I'm actually in the Octopus Surgery of the Month club. 968 01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:54,280 Speaker 1: I love that you get a new surgical implement every month. Yeah, 969 01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:58,160 Speaker 1: I know, I have no idea how I y octopus surgery. Yeah, 970 01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,720 Speaker 1: that's what that's what you and I are going into 971 01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:04,960 Speaker 1: as a side hustle for podcasts like the Pandemics when 972 01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,960 Speaker 1: we're off on everyone all right, yes, yeah, it's it's 973 01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:12,479 Speaker 1: a it's a gig economy, you know, really octopus surgery train. 974 01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:15,000 Speaker 1: You got to train all your life for new things. 975 01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:21,200 Speaker 1: And uh so it appears to that, like now I'm 976 01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:24,840 Speaker 1: thinking of the nature of quote unquote conspiracy in the 977 01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:31,600 Speaker 1: animal world with lemurs. I I believe that I have 978 01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:36,720 Speaker 1: underestimated them. I have no idea that they were this intelligent, because, 979 01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:38,800 Speaker 1: as you said, the fact that they are kind of 980 01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:44,160 Speaker 1: an earlier offshoot of the things that eventually down the 981 01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:48,040 Speaker 1: line become human beings made me sort of assume, quite 982 01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:53,919 Speaker 1: incorrectly that they were also an intelligence. This is this 983 01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:58,760 Speaker 1: is fascinating. I mean, I know, I know that there 984 01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:03,680 Speaker 1: is a like, uh compelling physiological reason for the sunning, 985 01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:08,280 Speaker 1: as you as you explained, But I'm I'm just gonna 986 01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:11,880 Speaker 1: choose to think they're meditating. I mean, you know what, 987 01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:14,560 Speaker 1: like we don't we don't know. Maybe they do get 988 01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:18,479 Speaker 1: I'm sure they probably get some kind of psychological um 989 01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,559 Speaker 1: benefits from that because they're relaxed there with their buds. 990 01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:24,640 Speaker 1: They got sons out buns out. I'm sure it's a 991 01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:29,120 Speaker 1: relaxing it may even be meditative experience for them. I 992 01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:32,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't rule it out, but we do have to take 993 01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:35,960 Speaker 1: a break. When we return, I want to quickly cover 994 01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:40,439 Speaker 1: one of the most infuriating stories I've ever covered on 995 01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:43,400 Speaker 1: the show. It is a conspiracy to frame snakes for 996 01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:47,200 Speaker 1: the evil deeds of humans. And then finally we will 997 01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:51,919 Speaker 1: reveal the answer to last week's guests who's talking mystery 998 01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:57,720 Speaker 1: sound contest? So we will be right back. So, Ben I, 999 01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:02,360 Speaker 1: this actually lived jet makes me really mad, So I 1000 01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:05,599 Speaker 1: don't want to spend too much time dwelling and stewing 1001 01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:08,680 Speaker 1: on it, but it was something that I discovered in 1002 01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:13,599 Speaker 1: my research and I just it's yeah, it makes me angry. 1003 01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:17,920 Speaker 1: So one of the most despicable types of conspiracies is 1004 01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:21,719 Speaker 1: to frame someone for your own misdeeds when you agree, 1005 01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:24,720 Speaker 1: like if you you're framing someone for a horrible thing 1006 01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:27,880 Speaker 1: that you committed, that's just the lowest of the low 1007 01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:31,400 Speaker 1: and it's it's even worse when you already take someone 1008 01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:34,240 Speaker 1: who's kind of a social outcast or a misfit and 1009 01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:38,519 Speaker 1: you frame them for something you do. And in this case, uh, 1010 01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:41,519 Speaker 1: snakes and birds of prey are being set up to 1011 01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:46,120 Speaker 1: look like the bad guy in videos that really portray 1012 01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:53,120 Speaker 1: human uh human evil. So in this case, snakes and 1013 01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:56,160 Speaker 1: birds of prey are being set up to look like 1014 01:09:56,320 --> 01:10:00,639 Speaker 1: the bad guy and videos where it is actually human 1015 01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:08,479 Speaker 1: committing the evil act. So, according to National Geographics Dina Maron, Uh, 1016 01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:13,320 Speaker 1: there is apparently a trend of YouTube videos that portray 1017 01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:18,040 Speaker 1: daring quote unquote animal rescues. So, for instance, there's a 1018 01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:22,320 Speaker 1: hapless gibbon being attacked by a Burmese python and then 1019 01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:26,160 Speaker 1: a brave person steps in and saves the gibbon. Or 1020 01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:29,280 Speaker 1: a crocodile is about to chomp down on a duck 1021 01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:34,240 Speaker 1: and some hero steps in and saves the duck. Um. Now, 1022 01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:37,160 Speaker 1: I think listeners of the podcast and probably YouTube and 1023 01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:41,760 Speaker 1: like you already sense something's wrong here because uh, intervening 1024 01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:45,719 Speaker 1: in nature when like a predator is about to eat 1025 01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:50,200 Speaker 1: its typical prey is you know, it's it's I understand 1026 01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:52,599 Speaker 1: the empathetic response you have, but it'd be kind of 1027 01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:55,559 Speaker 1: like if an alien came down to Earth and then 1028 01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:57,760 Speaker 1: smacked burger out of your hand as you were just 1029 01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:00,880 Speaker 1: about to eat it, uh, you know, or or even 1030 01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:02,719 Speaker 1: an apple and said Hey, that apple is a living 1031 01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:04,840 Speaker 1: thing too, and smacks it out of your hand and 1032 01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:09,400 Speaker 1: then you can't eat. Uh. So you know animal rescues 1033 01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:15,960 Speaker 1: where someone is intervening with the predator prey dynamic, it's like, well, okay, 1034 01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:19,240 Speaker 1: I guess you saved that cute duck, but now that 1035 01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:23,599 Speaker 1: crocodile won't have a meal. So uh and you know 1036 01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:26,880 Speaker 1: that it's uh, animals gotta eat too, they got to 1037 01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:32,080 Speaker 1: eat to live. Yeah, there's there's something, um although it 1038 01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:39,280 Speaker 1: surely well intentioned, there's there's something incredibly um self important 1039 01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:45,439 Speaker 1: you could argue about entering, Yeah, entering into this this 1040 01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:51,200 Speaker 1: huge system, this grand like this grand story that was 1041 01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:55,200 Speaker 1: doing just fine before we got on the scene. Like 1042 01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:58,439 Speaker 1: like I think, you know, we have to understand that 1043 01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:02,479 Speaker 1: if if the croc a dial or the alligator could 1044 01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:06,600 Speaker 1: think in historical terms like this, human beings would be 1045 01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:10,599 Speaker 1: a very new, in somewhat irritating thing, you know, like 1046 01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:16,040 Speaker 1: what what it would be? It's the alien smacking the apple, Yeah, 1047 01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:18,880 Speaker 1: for sure, And I think that's a very I think 1048 01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:22,760 Speaker 1: that's a very smart way to put it. Um And 1049 01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:27,080 Speaker 1: I know that there are arguments to four intervening in 1050 01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:33,640 Speaker 1: some situations like protecting maybe some animal that's already endangered 1051 01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:37,280 Speaker 1: from an invasive species. Of course, that's that's kind of 1052 01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:41,200 Speaker 1: an exception, like protecting a pet from a wild animal. 1053 01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:45,519 Speaker 1: And I totally understand the empathy that people feel when 1054 01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:49,080 Speaker 1: they see a predator eat some prey. Like I as 1055 01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:52,080 Speaker 1: much as I love predator species, I love snakes, I 1056 01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:54,479 Speaker 1: love birds of prey. Doesn't mean I don't feel bad 1057 01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:58,160 Speaker 1: for the prey that they're about too about to eat. 1058 01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:01,000 Speaker 1: But it's just, you know, it's a it's a fact 1059 01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:04,760 Speaker 1: of life that, you know, snakes gotta eat, and sometimes 1060 01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:07,639 Speaker 1: snakes gonna eat something cute. But the thing is, that's 1061 01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:12,040 Speaker 1: not just what's wrong with these videos. It's something much, much, 1062 01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:18,600 Speaker 1: much worse. So according to herpetologists and other wildlife experts 1063 01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:21,599 Speaker 1: who have reviewed these videos, and I'm not gonna say 1064 01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:24,800 Speaker 1: which ones because I just they don't deserve the clicks. So, 1065 01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:28,080 Speaker 1: but such as the one with the Burmese python and 1066 01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:32,640 Speaker 1: the gibbon, uh that that they watch these videos and 1067 01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:37,080 Speaker 1: they say these are definitely faked, and uh so that 1068 01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:41,360 Speaker 1: means that some butt hole grabbed a Burmese python, tossed 1069 01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:45,000 Speaker 1: it onto a gibbon, and then staged a heroic rescue, 1070 01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:49,440 Speaker 1: traumatizing both a gibbon and a python in the process, 1071 01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:54,200 Speaker 1: just for YouTube views. Terrible, terrible, So there were a 1072 01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:57,240 Speaker 1: few tip offs that the video was fake. According to 1073 01:13:57,439 --> 01:14:01,719 Speaker 1: herpetologist Mark Alia, as we've talked about in the show before, 1074 01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:07,639 Speaker 1: uh pythons are ambush predators. It may not seem like, hey, 1075 01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:09,760 Speaker 1: they don't have legs, how can they run up and 1076 01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:14,679 Speaker 1: ambush you? But they're they're sneaky. They will uh sneak 1077 01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:17,320 Speaker 1: up on their price. Sometimes I'll even drop down. They 1078 01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:19,840 Speaker 1: can get up a tree and then drop down on you, 1079 01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:24,040 Speaker 1: quite a terrifying prospect um. And then they bite down 1080 01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:27,400 Speaker 1: onto their prey, because that's important. If you're trying to 1081 01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:30,840 Speaker 1: coil yourself around some prey that's trying to get away 1082 01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:33,880 Speaker 1: from you, you may not be fast enough to coil 1083 01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:36,160 Speaker 1: around before it runs away, but if you bite down 1084 01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:40,280 Speaker 1: and then you start wrapping around them, that's it. That's 1085 01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,840 Speaker 1: game over for that that animal that you're about to eat. 1086 01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:45,880 Speaker 1: They're also typically nocturnal, so most of their hunting is 1087 01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:50,360 Speaker 1: done at night, but in these rescue videos, miraculously, for 1088 01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:53,719 Speaker 1: the benefit of good videography, all of these are happening 1089 01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:58,160 Speaker 1: during the day. Go figure. Also in this video, the 1090 01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:02,759 Speaker 1: herpetologist noticed that the Burmese python, which basically always bites 1091 01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:05,880 Speaker 1: down its prey before wrapping around it, was not biting 1092 01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:10,600 Speaker 1: the given so it shot during the day, was not 1093 01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:14,080 Speaker 1: biting the gibbon, just kind of was flopped over it 1094 01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:18,639 Speaker 1: looped around it. It seemed extremely likely, if not absolutely certain, 1095 01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:21,559 Speaker 1: that this was a faked video where the person put 1096 01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:26,200 Speaker 1: the python on the given and terrified the poor little gibbon, 1097 01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:30,200 Speaker 1: probably confused the python, maybe even traumatize the python as well, 1098 01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:31,960 Speaker 1: because they don't like being handled. They don't want to 1099 01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:35,960 Speaker 1: be scratched like. They don't even typically eat gibbons. They 1100 01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:38,840 Speaker 1: will if they're big enough and they see an opportunity, 1101 01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:41,720 Speaker 1: but they they'll mostly eat you know, um more like 1102 01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:46,559 Speaker 1: a rodent or rabbits um. I'm also gonna just you know, 1103 01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:51,120 Speaker 1: as a not a herpetologist, I'm gonna just throw it 1104 01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:54,600 Speaker 1: out there. I think I think most snakes don't like 1105 01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:57,880 Speaker 1: being thrown. I would imagine no, no, no, I don't 1106 01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:00,800 Speaker 1: think so. I don't think snakes like being thrown. I 1107 01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:03,960 Speaker 1: don't think they like. In fact, they may not seem 1108 01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:08,360 Speaker 1: like delicate creatures, but they are they they are they 1109 01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:12,439 Speaker 1: don't like being man handled. They can get very stressed out. Um, 1110 01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:15,439 Speaker 1: And so yeah, you don't. You don't want to just like, 1111 01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:19,040 Speaker 1: you know, man handle a snake for YouTube videos. You 1112 01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:22,120 Speaker 1: don't want to traumatize a given for YouTube views. It's 1113 01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:27,599 Speaker 1: completely ridiculous. Um. Other videos are clearly staged because they 1114 01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:32,840 Speaker 1: use the same damn snake over and over again. Yeah, 1115 01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:36,280 Speaker 1: so of course, maybe, like when you look at a snake, 1116 01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:37,960 Speaker 1: and you know, I'm not going to act high in 1117 01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:40,400 Speaker 1: mighty if I saw one python and then I saw 1118 01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:42,599 Speaker 1: another python, I'm not going to be able to tell 1119 01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:45,280 Speaker 1: necessarily the difference between the two pythons. They're gonna look 1120 01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:47,880 Speaker 1: the same to me. But in fact, they do have 1121 01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:52,160 Speaker 1: facial markings that are very specific to each individual. So 1122 01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:54,800 Speaker 1: if you study these videos and you look at their 1123 01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:58,799 Speaker 1: facial markings, you can see it's the same individual python 1124 01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:02,840 Speaker 1: used in multiple video. So this poor python just keeps 1125 01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:07,000 Speaker 1: getting like involved in these videos where it's like placed 1126 01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:11,520 Speaker 1: with some cuter animal I suppose, and then the rescuer 1127 01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:14,439 Speaker 1: grabs it away from it. Whereas this python is like, 1128 01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:17,479 Speaker 1: I'm literally not doing it. Why are you doing this? 1129 01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:22,680 Speaker 1: Like I'm just being a snake, you know, just I'm 1130 01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:25,639 Speaker 1: just trying to snake. I'm a big living pool noodle, 1131 01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:29,080 Speaker 1: and you won't leave me alone, right, You're throwing me 1132 01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:33,160 Speaker 1: at things, Yeah, tearing me off things, and now I'm 1133 01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:35,720 Speaker 1: the bad guy. Oh, I see, I'm the bad guy 1134 01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:38,400 Speaker 1: because I want lunch and you keep like shoving some 1135 01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:41,120 Speaker 1: lunch in my face and I don't even really want 1136 01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:44,839 Speaker 1: to eat it. But then you're like, no bad snake, 1137 01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:47,760 Speaker 1: and then then you get a million YouTube views? What 1138 01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:53,960 Speaker 1: is this? Yeah, it's horrible. This gibbon hates me nowt 1139 01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:59,280 Speaker 1: Like what like that is? That's another that's another uh 1140 01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:04,040 Speaker 1: weird human analog. What if what if you met someone 1141 01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:07,640 Speaker 1: because someone else just threw them at right right? You know, 1142 01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:13,040 Speaker 1: but your personal I don't want to even if they're 1143 01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:17,360 Speaker 1: the nicest person. Yeah, you know, they're still always going 1144 01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:20,400 Speaker 1: to be in your head the person that got thrown 1145 01:18:20,479 --> 01:18:23,360 Speaker 1: at you. Yeah, that's like a rock. It's a very 1146 01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:27,840 Speaker 1: awkward situation. But yeah, I mean like it's it's very 1147 01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:32,080 Speaker 1: it's very clearly animal abuse, very cruel. Uh. Sometimes you 1148 01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:33,800 Speaker 1: can see like if a bird of prey is in 1149 01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:36,960 Speaker 1: one of these videos of like hey falcon, leave that 1150 01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:41,480 Speaker 1: random like smaller animal alone, that you know, we've arbitrarily 1151 01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:43,840 Speaker 1: decided you should not eat you know, while we eat 1152 01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:46,840 Speaker 1: our burgers and so on. Yeah, the falcons in these 1153 01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:51,040 Speaker 1: videos will sometimes have their wings clips, so and ornithologists 1154 01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:53,120 Speaker 1: can see like, yeah, it's it's had its wings clip. 1155 01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:57,160 Speaker 1: It can't fly away. It's it's a it's horrible, um 1156 01:18:57,280 --> 01:18:59,599 Speaker 1: and you know it's It's just it's one of these 1157 01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:05,120 Speaker 1: things where my feeling is that nature is so incredible 1158 01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:09,400 Speaker 1: on its own. I mean, we talked about lemur sting 1159 01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:12,559 Speaker 1: fights right like that that you can there are so 1160 01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:15,520 Speaker 1: many there's so many things we don't need these sensational 1161 01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:19,559 Speaker 1: uh fake videos. And it's the thing that I think 1162 01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:22,960 Speaker 1: makes me the most angry about this is it praise 1163 01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:27,200 Speaker 1: on people's sense of empathy. Um. So I don't I 1164 01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:30,360 Speaker 1: have no anger towards people who watch these videos and 1165 01:19:30,479 --> 01:19:34,919 Speaker 1: like them, because I don't think that they are getting duped. 1166 01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:37,640 Speaker 1: Uh And of course you're not, like, it's not you 1167 01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:40,160 Speaker 1: don't even have to be stupid. I don't think like 1168 01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:43,240 Speaker 1: someone who watches this video and thinks it's a genuine video. 1169 01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:46,400 Speaker 1: It's like you don't expect someone to like kidnap a 1170 01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:49,439 Speaker 1: snake and throw it on a given and use it 1171 01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:52,400 Speaker 1: in multiple videos. That's just not something you're expecting. And 1172 01:19:52,479 --> 01:19:55,559 Speaker 1: our empathy response is very strong. We see this given, 1173 01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:59,280 Speaker 1: we can clearly see this given is scared, and we 1174 01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:01,760 Speaker 1: feel the and we're like, I want someone to go 1175 01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:04,840 Speaker 1: save that gibbon, and then someone does and you feel relief. 1176 01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:09,040 Speaker 1: That's very natural human empathy. It's nothing to be ashamed of. 1177 01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:12,720 Speaker 1: It's nothing that I think is wrong or bad. But 1178 01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:17,679 Speaker 1: it's so so slimy to take advantage of human empathy 1179 01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:21,240 Speaker 1: like that. It makes my skin crawl. I absolutely agree. 1180 01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:26,200 Speaker 1: And if you want to see incredible moments in nature, 1181 01:20:26,479 --> 01:20:29,000 Speaker 1: there's there are a lot of things out there. There 1182 01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:33,479 Speaker 1: are documentaries, there are you know, amateur videos made in 1183 01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:37,200 Speaker 1: good faith by people who are seeing these amazing things 1184 01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:41,320 Speaker 1: take place, like gibbons sing you know what I mean, 1185 01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:44,920 Speaker 1: and you you can you can watch that. That's that's 1186 01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:50,360 Speaker 1: pretty um inspiring now, genre of music wise, this singing 1187 01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:53,240 Speaker 1: may not be for everybody, but it is real. It's 1188 01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:57,000 Speaker 1: not faked to um just kind of prey on our 1189 01:20:57,040 --> 01:21:03,519 Speaker 1: own psychological tendencies. And snakes, you know, I know, snakes 1190 01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:06,720 Speaker 1: like a given song aren't for everybody, but they are 1191 01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:13,320 Speaker 1: They are amazing amazing creatures. You know, I like they're 1192 01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:15,479 Speaker 1: playing life on hard mode, you know what I mean, 1193 01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:22,160 Speaker 1: no legs, no arms for just just tube, just tube 1194 01:21:22,160 --> 01:21:25,679 Speaker 1: in it. Yeah, I mean, I mean it is. Yeah, 1195 01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:29,479 Speaker 1: it's it's very frustrating for me as someone who I 1196 01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:33,639 Speaker 1: think is I really love the less I guess they're 1197 01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:37,680 Speaker 1: sort of the less charismatic uh species of animals, the 1198 01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:42,320 Speaker 1: less gregarious animals that get really popular because I love 1199 01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:46,519 Speaker 1: you know, like we love pandas and koalas and and 1200 01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:49,080 Speaker 1: uh and cute little monkeys, and of course I love 1201 01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:52,959 Speaker 1: those animals too. Um, but I think things like snakes 1202 01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:57,599 Speaker 1: and spiders and hawks and um, you know, bats, these 1203 01:21:57,640 --> 01:22:00,639 Speaker 1: are all these are all amazing animals that also deserve 1204 01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:04,360 Speaker 1: our respect. And so it's just so infuriating when someone 1205 01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:08,040 Speaker 1: is first of all abusing animals and then doing it 1206 01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:10,880 Speaker 1: in a video where they're like kind of getting you 1207 01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:16,080 Speaker 1: to manipulating you emotionally to hate the snake for just 1208 01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:21,840 Speaker 1: snaking around. In terms of spotting these fake videos, um, 1209 01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:24,840 Speaker 1: it can be tricky. And again I do not people 1210 01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:28,639 Speaker 1: who get like taken in by these videos. You're not dumb. 1211 01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:33,920 Speaker 1: It's just you're being manipulated by someone who has no scruples, 1212 01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:37,120 Speaker 1: and it's like, of course you see a snake attack, 1213 01:22:37,400 --> 01:22:40,519 Speaker 1: given it's your first thought isn't like maybe someone carefully 1214 01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:45,040 Speaker 1: doctored this um. But if you want to know some 1215 01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:47,920 Speaker 1: tips to kind of like look, see if you can 1216 01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:50,880 Speaker 1: spot the fake video. One thing is if you notice 1217 01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:53,680 Speaker 1: the channel has a bunch of animal rescue things that 1218 01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:59,400 Speaker 1: are similar highly unlikely, So like if they're constantly saving 1219 01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:04,040 Speaker 1: some animal from like a snake or a hawk or 1220 01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:07,840 Speaker 1: a crocodile, and it's like the same channel those things, 1221 01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:12,040 Speaker 1: first of all, just don't You don't encounter that very often. 1222 01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:15,000 Speaker 1: A lot of predators are nocturnal, so you're not going 1223 01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:17,240 Speaker 1: to see them during the day. It's very difficult to 1224 01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:22,160 Speaker 1: catch those things on camera documentaries like Planet Earth where 1225 01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:26,200 Speaker 1: you see these incredible and gory scenes where you see 1226 01:23:26,240 --> 01:23:30,480 Speaker 1: a shark like tear seal and half or something horrific, 1227 01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:34,840 Speaker 1: or you know, you see lions like takedown some some prey. 1228 01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:39,240 Speaker 1: It can take years or at the very least many 1229 01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:43,479 Speaker 1: months to get a really good shot of something like that, 1230 01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:47,800 Speaker 1: to get really good footage of predator and prey, and 1231 01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:51,000 Speaker 1: certainly you're not typically going to be up close and 1232 01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:53,519 Speaker 1: personal to that happening, You're going to freak out both 1233 01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:58,160 Speaker 1: the prey and the predator animals. So so typically if 1234 01:23:58,200 --> 01:24:00,639 Speaker 1: the channel is just like nothing, but like a bunch 1235 01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:02,840 Speaker 1: of these like I just saved a duck out of 1236 01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:05,080 Speaker 1: the mouth of a crocodile and it keeps happening, It's 1237 01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:08,519 Speaker 1: like that should set off a red flag. Another red 1238 01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:11,040 Speaker 1: flag is they're all shot during the day. You know, 1239 01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:14,360 Speaker 1: just look to see eight are these animals actually uh 1240 01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:16,640 Speaker 1: do they are the most active during the day or 1241 01:24:16,680 --> 01:24:21,240 Speaker 1: active during the night. That's another tip off. Um. Typically uh, 1242 01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:25,720 Speaker 1: sort of legit naturalists aren't going to intervene, so like 1243 01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:29,640 Speaker 1: there may be a video of some cool predation going on, 1244 01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:33,439 Speaker 1: but a naturalist or a researcher or biologist is not 1245 01:24:33,479 --> 01:24:36,640 Speaker 1: gonna snatch that prey out of that predator's mouth. So 1246 01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:42,400 Speaker 1: that typically doesn't happen in like legit videos. You might 1247 01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:47,040 Speaker 1: hear you might hear a narrator talking about the beautiful, 1248 01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:50,080 Speaker 1: slash brutal site, right right, exactly. You might hear the 1249 01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:55,479 Speaker 1: voice of Sir David Attenborough. Yes, yes, but David Dave, 1250 01:24:55,800 --> 01:25:03,000 Speaker 1: Dave's not the type of guy to intervene unless nature. Yeah, yeah, exactly, 1251 01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:06,080 Speaker 1: So that those are just a few tips for spotting fakes. 1252 01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:09,240 Speaker 1: I've certainly been faked out by, not not by this 1253 01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:11,120 Speaker 1: type of video, but there have there have been like 1254 01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:14,160 Speaker 1: Internet videos or like wait is that real? And I 1255 01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:16,040 Speaker 1: think maybe it's real, and then I find out now 1256 01:25:16,120 --> 01:25:19,760 Speaker 1: it's completely fake. So just some tips and tricks to 1257 01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:22,680 Speaker 1: sort of suss out those those videos, you know, and 1258 01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:26,679 Speaker 1: if it seems like too incredible to be real, just 1259 01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:29,719 Speaker 1: like just do a little Google search. You know it's 1260 01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:32,680 Speaker 1: it's actually you can find out those things. And I 1261 01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:35,559 Speaker 1: think that's like such an important lesson, especially now when 1262 01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:40,320 Speaker 1: we just have so much disinformation, like through Facebook, just 1263 01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:45,519 Speaker 1: this constant pipeline of bull honky. It's so frustrating. We 1264 01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:49,280 Speaker 1: talked about the horse medicine at the beginning of the show, 1265 01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:54,360 Speaker 1: where people just start getting this information like don't trust science, 1266 01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:57,479 Speaker 1: just to trust this one terrible study that had to 1267 01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:00,840 Speaker 1: be retracted that maybe when you put horse medicine and 1268 01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:04,160 Speaker 1: a petri dish it does something to COVID And it's like, no, 1269 01:26:04,360 --> 01:26:08,360 Speaker 1: that's not how research works. Don't take horse medicine. Uh, 1270 01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:11,400 Speaker 1: you will not turn into a horse, but you might 1271 01:26:11,479 --> 01:26:17,000 Speaker 1: go sterile. Yeah, yes, that is that is true, folks, 1272 01:26:17,479 --> 01:26:20,879 Speaker 1: if if you and you can check this very easily, 1273 01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:29,400 Speaker 1: there is a there are indications of a distressingly high 1274 01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:35,280 Speaker 1: likelihood of of this horse of horse medication. One in specific, 1275 01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:38,320 Speaker 1: that we don't have to give airtime to uh causing 1276 01:26:38,439 --> 01:26:44,439 Speaker 1: sterility in men's Yeah yeah, so you know, uh, and 1277 01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:48,000 Speaker 1: you'll get a lot of diarrhya. So nobody needs that, uh, 1278 01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:53,120 Speaker 1: unless unless you're planning on a stink fight. Yeah, stay 1279 01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:56,839 Speaker 1: away from it. Yeah. But in terms of incredible footage 1280 01:26:56,880 --> 01:27:00,400 Speaker 1: that is very real. Here's an example of thing that 1281 01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:05,080 Speaker 1: seems like it's it's fake footage, but it's actually something 1282 01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:11,000 Speaker 1: that was taken by researchers. So, um, there was footage 1283 01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:16,280 Speaker 1: of a giant tortoise in the Schell's Archipelago stalking and 1284 01:27:16,479 --> 01:27:21,760 Speaker 1: killing a baby bird, which we typically have thought that 1285 01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:26,479 Speaker 1: giant tortoises are strict herbivores, So the fact that it 1286 01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:29,840 Speaker 1: went on the hunt for an adorable baby bird was 1287 01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:34,080 Speaker 1: not only horrible to look at, but also really surprising 1288 01:27:34,160 --> 01:27:39,000 Speaker 1: from a behavioral perspective. So the bird was a turn chick, 1289 01:27:39,120 --> 01:27:42,559 Speaker 1: very cute, very small, very lovable, and then this out 1290 01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:45,479 Speaker 1: of freaking just nowhere, this giant well not out of nowhere. 1291 01:27:45,479 --> 01:27:48,400 Speaker 1: It's a little bit slow, but slowly out of nowhere, 1292 01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:53,559 Speaker 1: this giant tortoise creeps up on it and approaches the 1293 01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:56,360 Speaker 1: bird and then just chomps right on its head and 1294 01:27:56,400 --> 01:28:01,679 Speaker 1: swallows it whole. What is that a usual thing? Nope? 1295 01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:09,080 Speaker 1: Uh so the general understanding is that giant tortoises are herbivores. 1296 01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:13,080 Speaker 1: So the fact that it ate a baby bird, and 1297 01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:15,360 Speaker 1: in fact not just eight but seemed to stalk and 1298 01:28:15,479 --> 01:28:18,600 Speaker 1: eat a baby bird is mind blowing. So now researchers 1299 01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:22,120 Speaker 1: are scrambling. Uh they're wondering, Okay, is this just one 1300 01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:26,800 Speaker 1: weird perverse turtle or is it uh turtles that do 1301 01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:31,400 Speaker 1: this occasionally, or is it like when certain food sources 1302 01:28:31,400 --> 01:28:34,800 Speaker 1: are scarce, Like, what's going on? Why are the turtles 1303 01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:38,080 Speaker 1: eating the baby birds? Is a sign of the apocalypse? 1304 01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:42,960 Speaker 1: Uh so, yeah, it's a it's it just goes to 1305 01:28:43,040 --> 01:28:47,280 Speaker 1: show you, like, uh, you know, whenever they're these fake 1306 01:28:47,840 --> 01:28:51,599 Speaker 1: videos out there, it's like when you find a real video, 1307 01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:55,880 Speaker 1: it's usually way cooler, way more intense than any of 1308 01:28:55,880 --> 01:29:03,519 Speaker 1: the fake stuff, agree us. So yeah, with that, before 1309 01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:08,280 Speaker 1: we go, I actually want to reveal the answer to 1310 01:29:08,479 --> 01:29:15,439 Speaker 1: last week's guess Who's talking contests. So every week this 1311 01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:18,720 Speaker 1: is a new game that I am playing with you 1312 01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:22,120 Speaker 1: the listener and you the guests, where I play a 1313 01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:27,080 Speaker 1: mystery sound of any animal on the earth, and you 1314 01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:30,240 Speaker 1: have to guess who is making that sound? Uh, and 1315 01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:33,720 Speaker 1: I only give one little hint. So last week the 1316 01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:37,920 Speaker 1: hint was it is an argument between two Canadians and 1317 01:29:38,560 --> 01:30:02,679 Speaker 1: here is the sound. So do you want to guess 1318 01:30:02,760 --> 01:30:09,759 Speaker 1: ben who is talking in the mystery sound segment? Yes? 1319 01:30:10,040 --> 01:30:14,840 Speaker 1: And is there is there a clue? Yeah? Yes, Uh 1320 01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:21,200 Speaker 1: these are two Canadians having an intense conversation. Are they 1321 01:30:21,320 --> 01:30:26,120 Speaker 1: our producers? No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, kidding, our producers 1322 01:30:26,160 --> 01:30:29,680 Speaker 1: are not. Show has been canceled. We're sorry for the interruption. 1323 01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:36,439 Speaker 1: So yes, so this is um okay. Initially I was 1324 01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:39,160 Speaker 1: going to guess goats, because I know I've heard some 1325 01:30:39,760 --> 01:30:44,920 Speaker 1: strangely human like vocalization can screen pretty good. Yeah, yes, 1326 01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:51,200 Speaker 1: but given that clue, without using a lifeline or cheating 1327 01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:57,920 Speaker 1: via Google, I am going to guess was it Canadian geese? Oh? 1328 01:30:58,080 --> 01:31:05,400 Speaker 1: You're so close, but alas no. Uh So congratulations to 1329 01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:09,400 Speaker 1: the first three people to write in with the correct answer. Uh. 1330 01:31:09,439 --> 01:31:14,000 Speaker 1: Pepper Lapew Alison Key and Enrique who guessed drum roll 1331 01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:24,000 Speaker 1: Canada lynxes? What congratulations, Oh Canada, you guess the weird 1332 01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:29,360 Speaker 1: ass noise? Yeah, so these are two Canada lynxes. Uh. 1333 01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:36,040 Speaker 1: Canada Lynxes are fluffy, muscular swoll felines with amazing sideburns. 1334 01:31:36,479 --> 01:31:41,760 Speaker 1: They live in boreal forests in Canada. They also live 1335 01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:44,800 Speaker 1: in Alaska in the very tippy top of North America. 1336 01:31:45,200 --> 01:31:48,639 Speaker 1: They have amazing fluffy feet that look like egg boots 1337 01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:53,400 Speaker 1: that cover their toepads to keep their tipsies warm during winter. Typically, 1338 01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:56,240 Speaker 1: they're not very social. They don't hang out much. So 1339 01:31:56,320 --> 01:32:00,400 Speaker 1: the fact that someone caught on video two lynxes space 1340 01:32:00,439 --> 01:32:04,080 Speaker 1: to face yelling at each other having some kind of argument, 1341 01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:08,240 Speaker 1: probably over territory, is pretty incredible. And yes, they really 1342 01:32:08,280 --> 01:32:13,360 Speaker 1: do sound like two people just screaming at each other, 1343 01:32:13,840 --> 01:32:19,120 Speaker 1: and like you know, a Walmart arguing over some some 1344 01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:27,599 Speaker 1: mountain dew. You know, that's how it happens. That's what happens. 1345 01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:29,360 Speaker 1: And you try to take my mountain dew. I just 1346 01:32:29,400 --> 01:32:35,680 Speaker 1: screams some what we've we've discussed about cats earlier, I 1347 01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:39,519 Speaker 1: have I have much more appreciative of my own pets 1348 01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:43,880 Speaker 1: for not talking that way they do not talk to 1349 01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:45,840 Speaker 1: you in that tone of voice, not while they live 1350 01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:50,320 Speaker 1: under your roof. Hey, I will I will throw this 1351 01:32:50,439 --> 01:32:56,240 Speaker 1: mountain dew outside. Yeah, yeah, exactly, I will. I will 1352 01:32:56,720 --> 01:33:00,640 Speaker 1: turn this kitty tree right around. Uh yeah, you got 1353 01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:02,559 Speaker 1: you got all of them knows who's boss or they're 1354 01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:05,680 Speaker 1: gonna walk all over you, probably literally, they probably already do. 1355 01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:09,600 Speaker 1: It's too late. Well, so for this week, I have 1356 01:33:09,760 --> 01:33:14,760 Speaker 1: another mystery sound in our game of guess who's talking? Um, 1357 01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:17,800 Speaker 1: I will give you another hint. It is you do 1358 01:33:17,920 --> 01:33:20,840 Speaker 1: not want to get in a knife fight with this guy? 1359 01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:30,479 Speaker 1: And now here is the sound. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 1360 01:33:32,360 --> 01:33:40,320 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. All right, So Ben, you got any guesses 1361 01:33:40,520 --> 01:33:46,599 Speaker 1: who's making that incredible sound. Oh I'm scared to go 1362 01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:50,720 Speaker 1: over to here, Katie because I'm not an expert, but 1363 01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:57,200 Speaker 1: I want to say something about it. You say you 1364 01:33:57,200 --> 01:33:59,360 Speaker 1: don't want to get in a knife fight. Something about 1365 01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:05,080 Speaker 1: that clue, plus that sound makes me want to guess 1366 01:34:05,080 --> 01:34:12,240 Speaker 1: in the direction of amphibians. Maybe is there a frog 1367 01:34:12,320 --> 01:34:14,320 Speaker 1: that can like or frog or toad that can break 1368 01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:19,240 Speaker 1: its bones and kind of like again wolverine out there 1369 01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:23,760 Speaker 1: is It's called a hairy harry frog. But my I 1370 01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:27,960 Speaker 1: have a poker face on I reveal nothing to you 1371 01:34:28,160 --> 01:34:31,400 Speaker 1: of this game for the answer will only be revealed 1372 01:34:31,479 --> 01:34:36,679 Speaker 1: next Wednesday on the next episode of Creature Feature. Uh. So, 1373 01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:39,559 Speaker 1: you know, make your guesses if you want to. You 1374 01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:42,439 Speaker 1: want to bet on bowling, you might guess the Hairy 1375 01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:49,840 Speaker 1: Frog or make your own guesses. Uh. Not to put 1376 01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:52,360 Speaker 1: any pressure on you, but thank you so much for 1377 01:34:52,479 --> 01:34:55,040 Speaker 1: joining me today. Tell the people where they can find 1378 01:34:55,080 --> 01:34:56,519 Speaker 1: you so they can get mad at you if you 1379 01:34:56,560 --> 01:35:02,280 Speaker 1: make them lose the bet. Thanks so much, Thank you 1380 01:35:02,360 --> 01:35:04,920 Speaker 1: so much. Yeah for having me on the show. You 1381 01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:09,200 Speaker 1: can find me in a number of places. I'm in 1382 01:35:09,240 --> 01:35:13,600 Speaker 1: a burst of creativity calling myself at Ben Bolan on Instagram, 1383 01:35:13,640 --> 01:35:17,040 Speaker 1: vo w l i N. You can find uh, you 1384 01:35:17,080 --> 01:35:20,559 Speaker 1: know when you're on Twitter following Katie what you should 1385 01:35:20,600 --> 01:35:23,320 Speaker 1: already be doing. Then you can also follow me. I'm 1386 01:35:23,360 --> 01:35:26,599 Speaker 1: aptin Bowlin hs W. And if you want to learn 1387 01:35:26,640 --> 01:35:29,880 Speaker 1: more about critical thinking applied to conspiracy theories, please do 1388 01:35:30,160 --> 01:35:33,840 Speaker 1: check out stuff they don't want you to know, available 1389 01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:39,680 Speaker 1: on you know, podcast platforms available kind of kind of 1390 01:35:40,280 --> 01:35:44,759 Speaker 1: petered out at the end. They're available in podcast uh yeah, 1391 01:35:44,920 --> 01:35:47,799 Speaker 1: And you can find me on the internet at Creature 1392 01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:52,480 Speaker 1: Feature Pod on Twitter, at Creature Feet Pod on Instagram, 1393 01:35:52,640 --> 01:35:56,120 Speaker 1: and at Creature Feet Pod at gmail dot com. And 1394 01:35:56,160 --> 01:35:58,880 Speaker 1: that's where you can send me in your answers to 1395 01:35:59,560 --> 01:36:03,640 Speaker 1: the get Who's Talking Mystery Animal sound guessing game And 1396 01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:08,599 Speaker 1: if you are both lucky and clever, you can get 1397 01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:10,880 Speaker 1: your name right out on the show if you guess 1398 01:36:11,000 --> 01:36:15,920 Speaker 1: the correct animal for next week's animal guessing game. And 1399 01:36:16,160 --> 01:36:19,600 Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening. I really do appreciate it. 1400 01:36:19,640 --> 01:36:22,360 Speaker 1: If you're enjoying the show, uh, and you leave a 1401 01:36:22,479 --> 01:36:25,559 Speaker 1: rating or review, it really does help me out a lot. 1402 01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:28,200 Speaker 1: I read all the reviews and I cherished them all, 1403 01:36:28,280 --> 01:36:30,880 Speaker 1: print them out, put them under my pillow, kiss them 1404 01:36:30,920 --> 01:36:35,840 Speaker 1: every night. Uh literally, Yes, I absolutely do that. And 1405 01:36:35,880 --> 01:36:38,720 Speaker 1: thanks to the Space Classics for their super awesome song 1406 01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:42,160 Speaker 1: Exo Lumina. Creature features a production of I Heart Radio. 1407 01:36:42,200 --> 01:36:45,760 Speaker 1: For more podcasts like the one you just heard, visit 1408 01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:48,320 Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or Hey guess what? 1409 01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:51,679 Speaker 1: Where have you listen to your gosh darn favorite shows? 1410 01:36:51,720 --> 01:36:55,439 Speaker 1: I don't judge you, not the podcast police, gosh darn it. 1411 01:36:56,000 --> 01:37:00,880 Speaker 1: See you next Wednesday to da