1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is the Bloomberg 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: daybaq At podcast, available every morning on Apple, Spotify or 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: wherever you listen. It's Monday, the twenty sixth of February 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: in London. I'm Caroline Hipka. 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: And I'm Stephen Carroll. Coming up today. Why the world's 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: most profitable hedge fund bet is facing a new era 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: of risk. 8 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: Bercher Hathaway's cash pile jumps to a record one hundred 9 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: and sixty eight billion dollars as Buffett bemoans a lack 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: of opportunities. 11 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 2: And from globalism to protectionism. What this week's WTO summit 12 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 2: tells us about the risks of a changing world order. 13 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: Let's start with a roundup of our top stories. 14 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: The most successful hedge fund strategy of twenty twenty three 15 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: is facing a more complicated future. A new era of 16 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: risk is threatening the models that insurance insurance link to 17 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: securities dominated by catastrophe bonds rely on. Bloomberg's Tea Ada 18 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: Bio has the details. 19 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 3: So called cat bonds issued by insurers to shield from 20 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 3: losses too big to cover. They transfer the risk to 21 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 3: investors who lose it for pre defined catastrophe hits and 22 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 3: gain big if it doesn't. But calculating catastrophic risk is 23 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 3: getting more difficult because of a growing concentration of property 24 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 3: in areas prone to weather events like destructive thunderstorms. They're 25 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 3: now outpacing the number of once in a generation natural 26 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 3: disasters which cat bonds are designed for. Climate change is 27 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 3: amongst the factors behind the shift, fueling uncertainty in the 28 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 3: cat bond market, which investors are currently unprepared for. In London, 29 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 3: Tea Ated, Baio, Bimberg, Radio. 30 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: Berkshire, Hathaway's cash pile jumped to a record one hundred 31 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: and sixty seven point six billion dollars in the fourth 32 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: quarter as the conglomerates struggled to find deals at attractive valuations. 33 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: CEO Warren Buffett use his annual shareholder letter to decry 34 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: a lack of meaningful deals that he said would give 35 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: the firm a shot at eye popping performance. The company 36 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: also reported a jump in fourth quarter operating earnings of 37 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: eight point four eight billion dollars, helped by an increase 38 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: in insurance underwriting and investment income. 39 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: Ukraine's president vladimyr Zelenski says his country has lost thirty 40 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 2: one thousand soldiers since Russia's full scale invasion began two 41 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 2: years ago. He added that there is a lack of 42 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 2: precise data on civilian casualties, though the figure is in 43 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: the tens of thousands. Ukrainian president also stressed the need 44 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 2: for military support from American allies as a congressional decision 45 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 2: on sixty billion dollars worth of aid for the country looms. 46 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan agreed, urging the House 47 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 2: to approve measures. 48 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 4: Ukraine can go further in retaking territory that Russia has occupied, 49 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 4: ensuring Russia fails, and ensuring Ukraine prevails, but it can 50 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 4: only do so if it has the tools that it needs, 51 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 4: and that is why the United States needs to deliver 52 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 4: the aid package that passed on a massive bipartisan vote 53 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 4: in the Senate. 54 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 2: The House needs to step up and pass that bill. 55 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 2: Jake Sullivan was speaking as President. Zelenski also claimed that 56 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: some plans for Kiev's counter offensive last year were leaked 57 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 2: to Russia. 58 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 1: When it comes to the conflict in the Middle East, 59 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: Benjamin Letnia, who says that he will have a plan 60 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: of action for evacuating civilians in Rafa soon. The Israeli 61 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: Prime Minister revealed that those sheltering in the southern city 62 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: would be directed north where fighting has finished. 63 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: We agree on this, I mean, we don't have to 64 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 2: be plodded it. 65 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 5: We're on the same page with the US oners because 66 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 5: that's how we do it. 67 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: Benjamin Lettanier, who's speaking there. He also said that his 68 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: plans will include how to dismantle remaining Hamas battalions. 69 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 2: The UK government is trying to revamp the way it 70 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: handles business investment. A new panel made up of senior 71 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 2: ministers and government officials aims to coordinate between departments to 72 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: bring in large projects. It was one of the key 73 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 2: plan thanks of Richard Harrington's review of the UK's FDI slump. 74 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: He spoke to us when the review was published last November. 75 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 5: Up to now, we've been very reactive in government in 76 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 5: London or in the regions. If a company comes to 77 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 5: us and they're interested in investing here, it's slow and 78 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 5: it's cumbersome, and often they have to go through different departments, 79 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 5: but actually eventually a package is brought up with the 80 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 5: other countries are better organized. They have a concierge service, 81 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 5: they have an investment minister at very senior level. 82 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 2: At Harrington told Bloomberg he's pleased with progress so far, 83 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: but some question if a concierge service can compete with 84 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 2: the US and it's Inflation Reduction Act investment plan. 85 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: The Conservative Party is facing accusations of racism after a 86 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: high profile Conservative MP was suspended for suggesting that the 87 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: mayor of London was controlled by quote Islamists. Lee Anderson 88 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: was a deputy chairman in the party until he refused 89 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,799 Speaker 1: to apologize for the remarks, but Deputy Prime Minister Oliver 90 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: Dowden has refused to call the comments racist. 91 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 6: I see from my own constituents where Jewish people are 92 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 6: fearful of walking the streets showing symbols of their own religion, 93 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 6: where we have hate on marches, where the actual conduct 94 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 6: of Parliament is apparently being influenced by threats of violence 95 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 6: and intimidation. 96 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: Unlike Dowden, the mayor of Lonton City Cahn't, said that 97 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: the claim was islamophobic, racist and stokes anti Muslim hatred. 98 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: Anderson's suspension comes as MPs are seeing increasing threats of violence, 99 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: with The Sunday Times reporting that three female MP's have 100 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: been assigned bodyguards. 101 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 2: In the United States, even a home state advantage couldn't 102 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 2: give Nicki Haley her first winner of the Republican presidential primaries. 103 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: Donald Trump won South Carolina bout twenty points over the weekend. 104 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 2: That's despite Haley being the former governor there. The news 105 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: has spurred one of her biggest donors to withdraw their 106 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 2: campaign fund with more Hairs bloombergs at Baxter. 107 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 7: This of course comes after her disappointing loss in South Carolina, 108 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 7: and now the Charles cokebacked Americans for Prosperity Action will 109 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 7: cut funding. It has spent millions of dollars since the 110 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 7: fall on advertising and voter outreach efforts, but it says now, 111 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 7: given the challenges in the primary stage ahead, well, it 112 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 7: says it doesn't think it can make a substantial difference. 113 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 7: The pack says it will continue to endorse her, but 114 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 7: we'll focus on funding where it can make a difference 115 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 7: at Baxter Bloomberg Radio. 116 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 2: Now, at a moment, we'll dig into the day's results 117 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 2: from Berkshire Hathaway and look at some of the big 118 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 2: issues at stake at the wto Summus in Abu Dhabi. 119 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 2: But another story that caught our eye this morning. Freddie 120 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 2: Mercury's Kensington home is going on the market. It's being 121 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 2: sold by his friend Mary Austin, who inherited from him 122 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: when he died in nineteen ninety one. She's been speaking 123 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 2: exclusively to our colleague Sarah Rappaport from Bloomberg Pursuits. It's 124 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: a fascinating conversation. The house itself is stunning in many 125 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 2: many senses of that word. 126 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 8: Yeah. 127 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: I walked past Sarah's desk last week when she had 128 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: got the brochure of the how I mean fabulous, absolutely amazing. 129 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: It had pictures of the dressing room Eddie Mercury, Yeah, amazing, as. 130 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: An FM carved into the marble of the after the 131 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: main bedroom, as well as an eight bedroom house tucked 132 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 2: away in Kensington. It's I mean, it still contains many 133 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: of the original design features that he put in place 134 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: when he when he bought the house. Sarah talks about 135 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: having a strong sense of personality. 136 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: Come on, well, thirty million pounds is it right? Okay, 137 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: Well we'll see who snaps that up. Very interesting story. 138 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: Sarah Rappaport from Bloomberg Pursuits. Of course, one of the 139 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: best jobs in the building with that story. 140 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: For us, let's get more now on one of the 141 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: big stories in the investing world, hedge funds. Piling inter 142 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 2: sector's top strategy from twenty twenty three investing in these 143 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 2: insurance linked to securities or catastrophe bonds. But the risks 144 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: get associated with them are getting harder to calculate, bimbricks. 145 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,119 Speaker 2: Charlie Willes joins us now for more Morning to you. Charnie, 146 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: tell us a bit more about then this cat bond 147 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 2: strategy they're prot such a big winner for hedge funds 148 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: last year. Is it still such a good bet? 149 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 8: Yeah? 150 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 9: Well, I mean this is a really fascinating story because 151 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 9: it gets at how climate change is changing, how finance 152 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 9: needs to assess risk. And so last year cat bonds 153 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 9: as they're known, with these catastrophe bonds were the best 154 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 9: performing asset class for hedge funds. They brought a nearly 155 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 9: twenty percent return. And the deal here is interesting, right, 156 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 9: So they these cat bonds are used by insurers to 157 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 9: kind of insure against the big ones. So these losses 158 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 9: that are just kind of too big to cover, they 159 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 9: securitize those losses and investors, you know, bet that you 160 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 9: know the catastrophe won't come. But what's been increasingly happening 161 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 9: is these sort of secondary perils tend to happen. So 162 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 9: there's a lot of property in areas where there might 163 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 9: be more floods, more wildfires, more sort of you know, 164 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 9: not huge ones, but smaller ones, and those are actually 165 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 9: you know, reassessing, forcing investors and insurers to reassess how 166 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 9: they calculate risk. And there's more investors come to the strategy, 167 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 9: it actually could make it less profitable and just a 168 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 9: lot more difficult to invest on. 169 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, the changing picture when it comes to climate. 170 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: You've also been looking then at the earnings of Berkshire Hathaway. 171 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: Cash was king. I mean this is also something that 172 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: Warren Buffett has talked about before, the lack of deals 173 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: out there for him. 174 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 9: Yeah exactly. I mean, look, Berkshire Hathaway famous for its 175 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 9: insurance businesses as well, and yes, that was a record 176 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 9: cash pile that they reported this weekend with their annual 177 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 9: letter as well as their results, one hundred sixty seven 178 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 9: point six billion dollars in cash, which is a lot. 179 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 9: And I mean, look, this is something that Berkshire has 180 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 9: long done, right because of their insurance business, they have 181 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 9: to keep a lot of cash on hand. They invest, 182 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 9: you know, one of the most famous value investors in 183 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 9: the entire world, but you know, in a higher rate environment. 184 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 9: And I think having a lot of that cash on 185 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 9: hand is bringing a lot less scrutiny than I think 186 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 9: it probably would otherwise. 187 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 2: These earnings are always very closely watched as being a 188 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 2: proxy for US economic health because it's such a diverse 189 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:13,679 Speaker 2: business as well. What sort of signals did we get 190 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 2: then from this report about the wider economy? 191 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 9: It was interesting. So operating earnings, which are the metric 192 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 9: that Buffett prefers because they don't take into account the 193 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 9: unrealized losses and gains on his investment portfolio. At Berkshire Hathway, 194 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 9: they were up from last year in the same period, 195 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 9: so eight point four to eight billion versus the same 196 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 9: period last year six point six three billion, and you know, 197 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 9: on trend this morning. They were aided by insurance, so 198 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,839 Speaker 9: the insurance companies in the Berkshire Hathway portfolio were able 199 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 9: to increase premiums, but the claims were lower at some 200 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 9: of the businesses, but they were dragged down the earnings 201 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 9: overall by some difficulties in rail and some difficulties in utilities. 202 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 9: Those were mentioned in Buffett's annual letter, which is you know, 203 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 9: famously parsed by investors. He interestingly meant some difficulties with 204 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 9: regulation and wage negotiations at rail, which is a little 205 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 9: bit unusual for Buffett because he tends not to criticize 206 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 9: some of the regulatory moves coming from Washington. 207 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: Okay, that's interesting. It was also the first annual letter 208 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: since berusha's vice chairman, Charliemonga passed away, so also very 209 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: interesting moment in terms of change at Berkshire Hathaway. Thank 210 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: you so much shat Charlie Wells for being with us 211 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: then taking us through the latest on hedge funds and 212 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: the results from Berkshire Hathaway. 213 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 2: Now, global trade ministers are gathering in Abu Dhabi for 214 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 2: the World Trade Organizations Summit, amid a tide of trade 215 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 2: protection and questions over the WTOS relevance. Our trade reporter 216 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 2: Eric Martin joins us now from Abudabi. From Morgan morning 217 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 2: to you, Eric, how big are the stakes then at 218 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 2: this meeting? Does the organization still have the power and 219 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: the cloud to be able to secure global agreement? 220 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 8: Well, that absolutely is an open question. You know, we've 221 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 8: seen the WTO kind of losing a slowly voting relevance 222 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 8: over really the last more than decade. It's been more 223 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 8: than ten years since the Doha Development Round bailed in 224 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 8: twenty eleven, and we've seen a real absence of global 225 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 8: agreements through the WTM since then. What we have seen 226 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:24,119 Speaker 8: is more regional agreements, things like are set in Asia 227 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 8: or like the CPTPP, also in the Indopacidic, which of 228 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 8: course Donald Trump withdrew the US from in his first 229 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 8: days in office in twenty seventeen. But so the WTO 230 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 8: really is under pressure to show that it can still 231 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 8: produce global agreements or even preserve the status quo in 232 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 8: terms of preventing greater fragmentation in trade. 233 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. 234 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: Absolutely, So what do you think the key issues then 235 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: will be that they will try to focus on and 236 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: find some some agreement and momentum on. 237 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 8: Well, one key test will be whether in a WTO 238 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 8: can renew what's called the e commerce moratorium. This is 239 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 8: a prohibition on countries applying tariffs on digital trade. So 240 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 8: think of a movie that you would download in Bali 241 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 8: from Netflix, or a book that you would would download 242 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 8: when you're abroad right now. All of these kinds of 243 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 8: digital trans first are prohibited from facing duties customs duties, 244 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 8: but some countries like Indonesia as well as some indication 245 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 8: from India and South Africa, that there's interest in being 246 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 8: able to raise revenue from these kinds of sales in 247 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 8: this kind of trade. So that's one key thing to 248 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 8: watch is whether this will be preserved and rolled over, 249 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 8: renewed as it always has been every couple of years 250 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 8: since nineteen ninety eight, or whether we're going to finally 251 00:13:55,480 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 8: see a breakdown in that consensus there. Remember, WTO operates 252 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 8: by consensus. It only takes one out of one hundred 253 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 8: and sixty six members to prevent agreement on any topic. So, 254 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 8: especially in today's charged geoplitical world and rivalry between US 255 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 8: and China and fragmentation, that. 256 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 2: Is a tall arnor Yeah, that's a really interesting point actually, 257 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: because the WTO is a sort of a forum for 258 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: these geopolitical differences. We were hearing from China's Commerce ministry 259 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 2: only today disputing claims from the US that it's flouting 260 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 2: WTO rules. 261 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 8: Absolutely. This is a report that we saw on Friday 262 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 8: from the US Trade Representative talking about how in the 263 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 8: US view, China continues to have practices that allowt the 264 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 8: WTO requirement that member nations be market based economies and 265 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 8: saying wto excuse me, China continues to be non market economy, 266 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 8: and we. 267 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 2: Saw strong pushback from Beijing. 268 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 8: Saying that it is not in violation of global trade 269 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 8: rules from in their opinion, of course, the US maintains 270 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 8: tariffs one hundreds of billions of dollars of Chinese exports annually, 271 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 8: and so certainly we see spillover from this rivalry and 272 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 8: list tension between the world's two largest economies into the 273 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 8: rest of the UK WTO. 274 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Daybreak Europe, your morning brief on the 275 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 2: stories making news from London to Wall Street and beyond. 276 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: Look for us on your podcast feed every morning, on Apple, Spotify, 277 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: and anywhere else you get your podcasts. 278 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 2: You can also listen live each morning on London DAB Radio, 279 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 2: the Bloomberg Business app, and Bloomberg dot Com. 280 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: Our flagship New York station, is also available on your 281 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: Amazon Alexa devices. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 282 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: I'm Caroline Hepka. 283 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: And I'm Stephen Carroll. Join US again tomorrow morning. For 284 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 2: all the news you need to start your day right 285 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: here on Bloomberg day Break. Europe